Military Review

QBZ-95 and QBZ-97 automatic machines

33
It has already happened historically that, for our compatriot, products originally from China are always associated with quality far below average, for some reason the same attitude has been towards arms, although there are no prerequisites for that, well, except that cinema no, no, yes, mention something unflattering about a Chinese gun or machine gun that failed at the wrong time. Meanwhile, Chinese weapons hardly deserved such an attitude toward themselves, there were, of course, models that cause a smile, for example, using a copy of the Mauser KHNUMX as a submachine gun for drivers and crews of armored vehicles, but that was a long time ago and not true The country can boast that in service with it it never had such incidents. In this article, we will use the example of the QBZ-96 and QBZ-95 machines to prove that you can go into battle with Chinese weapons, and the Chinese military industry is not at all what it was in the 97s of the last century. In addition, we will briefly consider the not quite ordinary ammunition that has been adopted by the PLA.


In my opinion, it’s necessary to start a story about a weapon from the description of the munition used in it, since it is the cartridge that sets the basic characteristics of a particular sample and if in most descriptions the cartridges for a machine gun or a pistol are usually already studied along and across , and everyone knows about their positive and negative qualities, then in the case of the samples described in this article, things are a little different, since the cartridge, although standard, is standard for China. It will be about ammunition with the metric designation 5,8x42, which, depending on the type of bullet, has different names DAP-87, DBP-87 and so on. In essence, this cartridge is a Chinese development of intermediate ammunition, taking into account the experience in creating 5,45 and 5,56 cartridges. That is, the task before the designers was set up in the form of creating an intermediate cartridge superior in its parameters to two more common in the world, and the designers partly coped with this task. Why not just coped? Yes, simply because the development of this munition went the wrong way and, frankly, they repeated all the same mistakes that were made when creating 5,45 and 5,56 munitions, plus added their own nuances. So, the cartridge itself turned out to be longer than common, this seemingly insignificant feature is reflected even in the dimensions of the weapon, of course, not everything is so obvious and critical as you might think, but if you already find fault with trifles, a longer cartridge means a longer chamber, a longer barrel, plus a wider store of weapons, and so on, all this leads to an increase in length, even a couple of centimeters, but the fact remains. In addition, the bullet caliber equal to 5,8 millimeters could be larger, at least to 6 millimeters, but the bullet itself has a length that makes its flight more even and accurate in comparison with NATO and domestic cartridges. In general, in order not to climb into the jungle, these munitions can be described as more effective cartridges in comparison with 5,56 and 5,45, but the promising current type of "grendel" and the version of Remington ammunition clearly undershoot, so to speak, better than what is at all, but worse than what is possible. With 7,62, of course, do not compare. Adopted a new cartridge in the 1987 year, which is clear from the name, and it’s interesting that at the time of the adoption of this cartridge, the weapons that used this ammunition were not accepted and appeared only a few months later. At the moment, under this cartridge created a full range of weapons, in which it can be effectively used: light machine guns, machine guns and sniper rifles.

Standard ammunition is loaded with a bullet weighing 4,15 grams, the speed that this projectile develops can reach 1000 meters per second, of course with short trunks, this parameter will be different. A variant of the cartridge, which is used in machine guns and sniper rifles, as well as in automatic weapons, of which this article has a heavier 5 gram bullet, which reduces the speed of a bullet, but significantly increases its kinetic energy. A remarkable point is that this ammunition is produced only in China, and no one else wanted to change the actual “awl on soap”, associating with a new, even a slightly better, cartridge.

So, the basis for the new weapon was created, it only remains for the small thing - to create a device for it that would shoot without fail. So, the first gun for the new cartridge was the Type 87 machine gun, which was the only machine gun for this cartridge before the 1995 year, but at the same time sniper rifles and light machine guns were also produced. So, in 1995, QBZ-95 appeared - a weapon that fully meets all modern trends of weapon fashion. For maximum effect, it’s enough to look at what Type 87 was and what QBZ-95 was; the weapon turned out to be in no way inferior, and in some cases superior to samples from other countries. First of all, it should be noted that initially this machine was created for special forces, because the layout of the bullpup here is more than justified. Also, even by the picture, it can be determined that the machine is almost half plastic, but this plastic is not at all the one that makes products for our market, but really high-quality, impact-resistant, plus reinforced with a steel skeleton (later replaced with an aluminum alloy, as well as the rest of the body of the weapon), which slightly increased the weight of the weapon, but made it more durable. Unfortunately, the design did not take into account all the negative qualities of weapons layout. So, the window for ejection of spent cartridges is located close enough to the shooter’s face and only on the right side, and if the influence of powder gases on the mucous membrane of the gunman seems to be a contrived negative moment, then the possibility of firing only from the right shoulder is a serious minus that is relevant not just for lefties. I think that most of the people who held a weapon understand that even if you are right-handed, it’s not a fact that the nearest shelter will be on your left, so that you can comfortably fire from your usual shoulder, so that the opportunity to shoot is the same relevant for the one who holds the spoon with his left hand, and for the one who writes the right.

The first thing that catches your eye is that the bolt handle is located at a fashionable place under the handle for carrying the weapon. This is usually done in order to avoid injuries among those who like to experiment with options for stopping the moving shutter during firing (there were people willing to stop even with their teeth, and these people were considered fit ...), and also so that the weapon was equally controlled as left-handed. , and the right hand. It turns out that the designers took care to take the bolt with any hand, but it was not possible to shoot from the left shoulder because of the location of the window for ejection of spent cartridges. Well, oh well, let's not quibble, all the same they have a lot of population, they can do it on the basis so that the neighbor's handle does not touch the crowded trenches. A lot of complaints are caused by the handle for carrying weapons, especially for those who used such weapons of “classic” designs before such weapons. In the negative quality, it is usually recorded that the head of the arrow when aiming is clearly visible to the opponent, in my opinion, such a negative phenomenon does exist, but its value is greatly exaggerated, since this height provides the most comfortable position for aiming, especially in the layout Bullpup, when the butt is in line with the line of fire, which greatly improves accuracy. Another thing is that in addition to the pillar, located on the handle for carrying weapons, there is another rather high element of open sights, which is guaranteed to cling to clothing. I can not go past such a phenomenon as a small distance between sights, which will affect the accuracy of the weapon when firing at maximum distances, although this can be compensated for with a simple optics of low multiplicity.

There were no negative moments in this weapon, which can categorically be used to put a minus sign. So, the most important negative quality of this automaton is that the fuse switch, it’s the gun’s fire mode translator, is located almost at the “butt”, that is, at the shooter’s shoulder and the switch is a very small switch that actually becomes inaccessible if the hands are protected warm gloves. And just the location of this switch is completely unfortunate, since it is at least on the left side of the weapon, and not on the right. It has 4 positions, three of which are quite familiar and understandable, but the fourth one allows you to fire a weapon with a fixed cut-off on the 3 cartridge. If you have already begun to deal with issues of the convenience of controlling weapons, then you cannot pass by the additional handle, which is the front part of the safety guard of the weapon. In general, the dimensions of the safety guard are quite good, as they allow to shoot even very thick mittens without much difficulty, but this additional handle is generally incomprehensible for what it is made, as it is located very close to the pistol grip, which makes the controllability of the weapon very relative, Yes, and just holding the machine for this handle creates inconvenience when you press the trigger. In general, the element here is absolutely superfluous and out of place, so if it were carried forward, and even made removable, the conversation would have been completely different. And yes, the most important thing is that the machine gun can be equipped with a bayonet, which is especially “relevant” for the configuration of the bullpup, and indeed for modern weapons, because after a day we go to bayonet attack.

Automatic weapons built on the scheme with a short stroke of the gas piston, the bolt locks the barrel when turning three stops. The slide does not have a weapon delay, nor does it have a neck for a magazine, which is fixed by a latch at the back. In general, the weapon proved to be sufficiently reliable and durable, failures due to contamination occur only in very neglected cases, however, this is not a reason to dip the machine into the dirt or izvalyat it in the sand, since all this greatly reduces the life of the weapon. The weapon also has the ability to install grenade launchers, here just the front part of the safety bracket in the form of a handle is very useful. In general, despite the fairly large leap in weapons for China, there is nothing revolutionary in this model, but nevertheless, everything is done fairly well, so that they can and can do much whenever they want. Immediately I foresee screaming about copied, stolen, but the weapon is really similar both in design and appearance to many samples, but it only seems to be an exact copy - these are two different concepts, and if you blame someone for plagiarism, then you need to start with all manufacturers of pistols that "insolently" use and upgrade the Browning system.

On the basis of the QBZ-95, several other variants of weapons were also created, so the most interesting in my opinion is the shortened version of the QBZ-95В, which differs only in barrel length, but is much more compact, easier to manage, and its combat characteristics are slightly less than long pattern. But the QBZ-95LWS seems to be more than a strange weapon, since it is a light machine gun for the same cartridge 5,8х42, differs from the main model with an elongated barrel, bipod and magazine with a capacity of 75 or 100 cartridges. If we talk about the dimensions of the weapon, the smallest model has a length of just 609 millimeters with a barrel length of 369 millimeters. Its weight is equal to 2,9 kilogram, the effective range of firing is limited to half a kilometer when using additional aiming devices, with standard effective range of the weapon - 300 meters (a small distance between the whole front sight). The standard model has a length of 745 millimeters, the length of the barrel is 463 millimeter, and the weight of the weapon is 3,25 kilogram. The effective range increased to 600-700 meters when using non-standard aiming devices. For a light machine gun, the lengths are 840 and 600 millimeters, respectively, the total length and length of the barrel, the weight is equal to 3,9 kilograms, and the effective range of fire 800 meters. In addition, this model has a higher rate of fire, which is equal to 800 rounds per minute, while for other samples this value is equal to 650 rounds per minute. Thus, we can say that in the 95 year, the 3 appeared in the arsenal of the People’s Liberation Army of China in a rather interesting sample, under a cartridge that is more effective than the 5,45 and 5,56.

All this is good, but the article is about two automata, right? Somehow in the process of writing, I completely abandoned the second one - QBZ-97 and abandoned it not by chance. I think that it is not a secret to anyone that there is mutual “love” between the police and the army in China, so it is not surprising that the police also wanted to get a novelty, and they got it two years later. The first and most important difference between the two machines is that the police officer uses the 5,56 cartridge, which actually changes its characteristics completely. The second difference is the lack of launches in the front of the safety bracket, as it was, in fact, was not needed initially, and was used only with an mounted grenade launcher, and which grenade launchers could be with the police. Well, the third difference is that the weapon has only two modes of shooting: single and automatic fire. In all other respects, both models are completely identical, but I still prefer the army version of the machine.

As well as the army version of the machine, the police officer has several options, including the option in which there is a cut-off of three rounds, a short version of the weapon, as well as a light machine gun for 5,56 cartridges. By the way, this weapon is also produced for the civilian market, naturally, without the possibility of automatic fire. The weight of the standard model of the QBZ-97 machine is 3,35 kilogram, the total length of the weapon is 758 millimeters, and the length of the barrel of the machine is 490 millimeters. It feeds weapons, like its military counterpart, from box stores with a capacity of 30 cartridges, although it is possible to use stores with a smaller or larger capacity. Also, despite the absence of an additional handle, you can still mount a single-barrel single-shot grenade launcher on the weapon. True, it is charged with not quite ordinary shots, but with traumatic shots.

Here is such a weapon in the arsenal of the Chinese army since the 1995 year, so we can say with confidence that they mastered the production of firearms perfectly, at least for their troops they do it quite well, and those options that are sent for import like no one really scolds. Not far off is the time when China will no longer need to copy something at all, but its developments, which will not be worse than European or our domestic ones, will be quite enough. And these two machine guns are far from all the weapons that are in service with the PLA, this is, so to speak, the tip of the iceberg, so if you are interested, I can make a series of articles on this country’s firearms, both modern and old.


QBZ-95 and QBZ-97 automatic machines

Author:
Photos used:
weaponland.ru
33 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. snek
    snek 3 October 2012 09: 35
    +6
    Great stuff! The author is a recognized plus.
    if interested, I can make a series of articles about the firearms of this country, both modern and old.

    It would be very interesting!
    1. mox
      mox 3 October 2012 22: 37
      0
      Thank you for the article
      1. scrabler
        3 October 2012 22: 44
        0
        You're welcome smile
  2. redcod
    redcod 3 October 2012 09: 56
    -2
    The dragon woke up ... And now it will not fall asleep for a long time.
    1. Skiff
      Skiff 3 October 2012 10: 12
      +9
      The Dragon? And was he, in the whole history of the Chinese, they only did what they raked, the whole history is internecine wars, and from the last history it is the Japonesh ogre, the Sino-Vietnamese war, the border conflict on Damansky Island. And all their achievements are copy-paste and transfer of Western manufacturing firms, photocopiers they are such photocopiers. negative
      1. redcod
        redcod 3 October 2012 10: 17
        +1
        Do not underestimate the potential adversary. For them, losing a hundred million on the battlefield is not fatal. And given the pace of economic and military development, including gold and foreign exchange reserves, it is becoming uneasy.
        1. Zynaps
          Zynaps 3 October 2012 15: 41
          +5
          the main thing is not to make big eyes. the Chinese economy is a locomotive racing at full speed. but the coal for this locomotive - energy - is bought abroad. any major conflict will be a disaster for China. it is much more profitable for them to act not abruptly and brutally, but softly and enveloping, so that the same Russian Federation would give energy resources for consumer goods and at the same time be engaged in their extraction and transportation. poking around in permafrost there are few who want to.
        2. mongoose
          mongoose 4 October 2012 10: 37
          +1
          it’s much worse for them to simply destroy the cascades of dams on the yanza and huanghe, hunger riots will immediately begin
      2. Suvorov000
        Suvorov000 3 October 2012 11: 18
        +3
        Come on, if you read history well, you will understand, theoretically they did not lose battles, they lost the war because they just stupidly surrendered each other, sold, but now China has no problems with this, now they buy everyone themselves, and whoever is not for sale has the opportunity to ogrebst is not sickly. I am touched by the opinion of the "captured warriors" The Chinese are weak, but we are one left of them, some of you have already had the honor of fighting with the modern PLA, then do not consider it a job, tell us how it was. Just don't talk about minor border clashes.
        1. snek
          snek 3 October 2012 11: 24
          +1
          In general, wars are different. There are classical, there are informational, there are economic ones. Go to any store or market and see how many products are made in china. And how many products labeled "Made in Russia" are in Chinese stores? So the economic war has been won by China completely. A direct military conflict is unlikely for nuclear weapons.
        2. Zynaps
          Zynaps 3 October 2012 18: 35
          +7
          uti-ways, how much pathos. You see, I had the opportunity to serve in the Special Intelligence Brigade, 24 military units, even in those days when there was a confrontation. and the structure of the PLA with the military infrastructure of China, we have seriously studied. among other things, over the past 20 years, I have often been to both Southeast Asia and China itself.

          the trick is that, despite their growth rates and gold and foreign exchange reserves, with the current overpopulation, they do not have enough strength and personnel to pull the village rogue to the world level. yes, in China the number of rich people (in the full sense of the word) is already greater than the population of the Russian Federation. residents of large cities are hooked on an almost European level of consumerism. but rogues are still six or seven times more. and all this continues to affect the overall level of development of the country. in the PLA, the number of elite units can be counted on one hand. these are the fleet, rapid reaction troops and some tank and motorized formations. but the PLA does not have experience in waging large-scale wars by the fronts, and it is impossible to comprehend this science by exercises alone - here you need combat experience, which the PRC does not have. and they did not even carry out exercises of the level of our "Dnepr" - it was useless. in the military doctrine, the stake is still placed on the "people's war" - natural partisanship involving irregular formations. China has a very vulnerable infrastructure for a serious war. the destroyed Three Gorges Dam alone would cause a catastrophe that would throw them back into the Stone Age.

          understand what the matter is. if I decide to dig you into the PLA and the might of China, then you really can’t say anything at all. all your horror stories are absolutely childish, irrational. in the modern world, the main piano is played by the economy. and for the PRC, war is a direct threat to depriving markets, the influx of raw materials and investments. and this
          the imminent arrival of the small polar fox. not to mention the return influx of "huaqiao" expelled from abroad, whom the government of the PRC with such difficulty pushed off its neck and pushed out of the country to graze on other people's bread.
      3. viruskvartirus
        viruskvartirus 3 October 2012 16: 49
        0
        You forget about an earlier story ....
    2. Krilion
      Krilion 3 October 2012 12: 08
      0
      I, too, will not sleep for a long time from laughter after a photo of a machine gun with a bayonet made according to the bullpup scheme .. I would like to see such a fighter in hand-to-hand combat ... 9
      1. snek
        snek 3 October 2012 12: 39
        0
        The bayonet today is more likely a tribute to the army traditions (how many bayonet battles were during Chechen companies, the war with Georgia or the regular wars?) In general, I have seen bayonets on more inappropriate units




        Quote: Krilion
        I, too, will not fall asleep for a long time from laughter after a photo of a machine with a bayonet made according to the bullpup scheme ..

        By the way, and our bullpup with a bayonet

        taken
        http://www.megasword.ru/index.php?pg=435
        1. axmed05
          axmed05 3 October 2012 13: 18
          -1
          They say the Chinese in the war are attacked in small groups of two three million people lol
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 3 October 2012 14: 47
        +1
        Look at the French and the British are fools too?
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 3 October 2012 20: 08
          0
          Austria and belgium ...
          But bullap is a matter of choice, for example, I am for the classics ...


          1. Kibb
            Kibb 3 October 2012 21: 21
            0
            For example, I also don’t understand what the problem of balanced automation is, do you want AK to be accurate, as it is. I think that bringing a synchronization unit is cheaper than creating a completely new rifle?
  3. saruman
    saruman 3 October 2012 10: 04
    0
    Informative. It is also interesting to know the opinions of users. Does the Chinese military have an open source opinion about this machine?
    1. scrabler
      3 October 2012 10: 41
      +1
      I think that among the visitors there will be people who have encountered these weapons, at least with the option for 5,56. In general, people spit, spit mainly because of the layout, location of the switch of fire modes and its shape, and so on in the text. Nevertheless, it is in service, although it has a clear competitor already in the classic QBZ-03 layout, but about it in another article wink
    2. Zynaps
      Zynaps 3 October 2012 15: 47
      +1
      as correctly noted, the main thing here is the ammunition. the machine turned out like an automatic, with mechanics from SVD. They say not bad in close combat. In other respects, it is not the most outstanding device. because the competitor QBZ-03 under the same cartridge did not just appear.
  4. Fox
    Fox 3 October 2012 11: 26
    0
    Well, the bullpup scheme didn’t take root in the armies ... it’s uncomfortable because of the weight distribution. So I don’t share the enthusiasm.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 3 October 2012 18: 19
      0
      Quote: Fox
      Well, the bullpup scheme did not take root in the armies ...

      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 3 October 2012 20: 00
        +1
        Assault rifle (automatic) Steyr AUG (Austria)

        Steyr AUG A3 Carbine with a 16-inch barrel and optional front grip and tactical flashlight under the barrel

        Steyr AUG A3 Carbine with a special 40mm caliber grenade launcher; grenade sight mounted on top of a quick-detachable optical sight on additional Picatinny rail rails

        Steyr AUG A3 Sniper with an elongated barrel, removable bipod and front handle, as well as an optical sight of variable magnification on a quick-detachable bracket


        Rifle FN F2000 in the basic configuration, with a standard optical sight
        1. Kibb
          Kibb 3 October 2012 20: 11
          +2
          Well, ate honestly, then in addition to the AUG and the not-too-successful L85, it should be recognized that the bulpap is more popular in the cinema (AUG also applies) than in the armies. Let's see how the future of Tavor
          Well, I forgot the "cleron". But apart from AUG, I have not yet seen any clearly positive trend in the reviews. But do not forget that the zest of the AUG is not only, and not so much in the line-up, but rather in the modularity originally laid down in the concept of the weapon
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 3 October 2012 20: 24
            0
            Yes, as it were, it already happened. Thais are adopting, are actively using Indians and Colombians (mainly in special equipment, but in large quantities), Vietnam, etc.

            Famas forgotten.
            China - now they have the basis of just bullpap
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 3 October 2012 20: 19
          +1
          And, I’ll supplement it.

          Famas, France
          1. Kibb
            Kibb 3 October 2012 21: 31
            0
            "Kleron" - this is FAMAS, I am getting better, but in principle I am also for the classics, about Tavor probably the armies were chosen, so they chose from something, there are no personal impressions yet
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 3 October 2012 20: 16
      +1


      Tavor, Tsahal



      Tavor, India

      And there are a dozen more countries where he is in service.
  5. Mr. Truth
    Mr. Truth 3 October 2012 13: 17
    +2
    It all starts with PATRON.
    On ballistic tests of the damaging effect of a bullet. they fired AK-74 assault rifles with a cartridge with a 7n6 bullet, an FN FNC carbine, with an SS109 cartridge, and a QBZ-97 machine gun with a DAP-87 cartridge.
    The result for a ballistic gel from 100 meters in the volume of energy transfer, to the length of the wound channel and the volume of AFP and runway won 5,45, then with a very slight lag 5,56 and then at 7,62x39 M43 goes 5,8.
    Сonclusion
    in front of 7,62x39 in the striking action of 5,8 on equal terms or has no advantages, but surpasses in penetration.
    External ballistics is superior to any arming low-pulse or intermediate cartridge, including the latest modifications of 5,56 M855A1.
    Impact of return at the level of 7,62x39
    ambiguous cartridge, with a long range, good penetration, and a relatively low damaging effect.
  6. Feanor
    Feanor 3 October 2012 14: 28
    0
    It is very similar to OTs 14 Thunderstorm.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 3 October 2012 17: 32
      0
      The QBZ-95 assault rifle is built according to the bullpup configuration, in which the store is located behind the fire control handle. The body of the weapon is made of high-strength plastic, the receiver is made of aluminum alloy. Automation QBZ-95 is largely copied from the Soviet SVD Dragunov sniper rifle. The barrel is locked by turning the shutter 3 combat stops, the gas engine has a short-stroke piston located above the barrel.
  7. wasjasibirjac
    wasjasibirjac 3 October 2012 16: 34
    -1
    Kalash just sticks out of this machine, it is especially felt in the form of a magazine and fuse
  8. plump
    plump 3 October 2012 20: 23
    -1
    The deputy politician gave us a lecture about the PLA. Two soldiers on a run carry a stretcher with a third, one Arisak rifle for two, each with two cartridges, communication by messengers (runner athletes), they repulsed our tank in Damansk, but they did not understand it and use an armored tractor and that the soldier eats once every day 200 g of rice.
    1. scrabler
      3 October 2012 20: 47
      +3
      Yeah, and the US Army gives up in the absence of toilet paper, they fight with bows and spears in Africa, and rush with coconuts from palm trees, soldiers have a slow reaction in Estonia, and there is no army in Australia, because there is no experience of mass fighting . A soldier, he is primarily a soldier and it does not matter from which army he is.
      1. scrabler
        3 October 2012 21: 57
        +5
        Heh smile minus))) Okay, okay, we are the coolest, you will not freeze with hunger and you will not take prisoner, and during the nuclear winter we will run with the cockroaches and wipe with ashes like snow - to harden. But seriously, I don't understand why reckoning with the real possibilities of a possible adversary, many equate to treason. Strange some kind of patriotism ... what
        1. Kibb
          Kibb 3 October 2012 22: 47
          +1
          No, I suppose I tried to compile something, but daughters, as usual, pushed buttons faster
          Quote: scrabler
          He is a soldier first of all a soldier and it doesn’t matter which army he is from.
          1. scrabler
            3 October 2012 22: 55
            +1
            They are such kids laughing
            1. Kibb
              Kibb 3 October 2012 23: 48
              0
              Yes, I just wanted to return the dispute to the outline of Chinese weapons, and not the lineup as such
              As for me personally, according to the Chinese I would be interested in their K96 all the same, modern plastic masks always break the dispute on "throwing helmets"
    2. Kibb
      Kibb 3 October 2012 21: 10
      0
      American and British soldiers also thought so, until they really ran into the Japanese
      Quote: scrabler
      US Army soldiers surrender in the absence of toilet paper

      Probably the Japanese at Guadalcanal also thought something like this
      A soldier he is primarily a sodat














      Quote: scrabler
      He is a soldier first of all a soldier and it doesn’t matter which army he is from.

      Quote: scrabler
      He is a soldier first of all a soldier and it doesn’t matter which army he is from.

      Quote: scrabler
      He is a soldier first of all a soldier and it doesn’t matter which army he is from.

      Quote: scrabler
      He is a soldier first of all a soldier and it doesn’t matter which army he is from.

      Quote: scrabler
      He is a soldier first of all a soldier and it doesn’t matter which army he is from.

      Quote: scrabler
      no matter what army he is from.
  9. Megatron
    Megatron 3 October 2012 21: 21
    -2
    China may have an army, but it does not have normal strategic nuclear forces, there are lope warheads there, but what about delivery systems? Generally not clear.
    And it is not for nothing that right now in Primorye the divisions of the latest air defense are actively deployed.
    If any thread of the bulldoat takes off and, moreover, FLIES to our borders, I think it will be knocked down even on an approach. And 3-5 .... 10 of our hits in major cities of China, this is what will be .... genocide.

    ps Port Arthur would take it back.
    1. Kibb
      Kibb 3 October 2012 21: 40
      +2
      Quote: Megatron
      ps Port Arthur would take it back.

      What for? Out of principle?
    2. PSih2097
      PSih2097 3 October 2012 22: 57
      +1
      ps Port Arthur would take it back.

      then ChemulPo too ...
  10. Megatron
    Megatron 5 October 2012 00: 32
    0
    Because it’s like the Crimea, which just as well presented.
    The earth is watered with our blood in the Russo-Japanese War.
  11. Michael HORNET
    Michael HORNET 14 August 2016 21: 20
    0
    5.8x42 is an intermediate cartridge, the concept is exactly the same as that of 6,5 Grendel, only the caliber and energy are taken as minimal as possible, while still looking at the possibility of firing bursts
    In principle, with a bullet BC in the district 0.37-0.39, it’s quite a good solution, but still Grendel gives much greater opportunities