Su-30: it turned out somewhat different from what was planned

80

Our story started way back in 1988. It was then that the decision was made to start work at the Sukhoi Design Bureau on a new aircraft. Above the new two-seat aircraft.

An analysis of the practice of using fighters in modern conflicts made it possible to direct the efforts of designers in two directions.



1. Modern air combat began to impose huge loads on the pilot. Piloting a vehicle with simultaneous control and use of a weapon complex has become a really difficult task. An understanding came of the need to divide duties into two crew members, the first would be responsible for piloting the aircraft, the second would control the weapons.

2. As the attention of many countries turned to the North, it became clear that a small number of airfields, guidance points and AWACS aircraft in our North require the use of aircraft with a long flight duration. The Su-27 had very impressive fuel reserves, but this also hid a drawback: by the time the combat mission began, the pilot could get tired of the long duration of the flight.

So the second crew member, able to replace the pilot in a long flight and relieve part of the load during the battle, was a real way out of this situation.


The retrofitting of the Su-27UB aircraft (two-seat combat training aircraft) with an in-flight refueling system and indicators of the tactical situation - this is the group of engineer I.V. Emelyanova saw the solution to the problem.

The work was carried out at the Irkutsk Production Association and by 1992 ended with the creation of an aircraft, which was called the Su-30. In parallel with the new aircraft, the Sukhoi Design Bureau was working on a modification of the Su-27, which was called the Su-27P.

The aircraft were very different, and the new Su-30, unlike the Su-27, was designed for slightly different tasks:
- gaining air supremacy;
- long-range patrolling and escort of strategic aircraft aviation;
- radar patrol, guidance and target designation for other aircraft;
- flight crew training.

The Su-30 was perfect for combat missions at a considerable distance from airfields, or those associated with a long flight time. In addition, the presence of a second crew member made it possible to more effectively control the fighters in the group.

This was provided by a whole complex of equipment installed on the aircraft. In addition to the air refueling system, the Su-30 was equipped with a long-range navigation system, equipment for controlling fighters in a group, and an improved life support system.

At the same time, the aircraft, which was considerably heavier compared to the Su-27P, could easily perform all aerobatics on a par with single-seat fighters, and was capable of performing dynamic braking - the Pugachev Cobra.

A very decent (9400 kg) fuel supply ensured a flight range of 3600 km, and the presence of refueling equipment and tankers in the air generally limited the flight time and range by the physical capabilities of the crew. After numerous studies, it was decided to limit the time in the air to 10 hours.


In July 1998, the 148th Center for Combat and Flight Personnel Training under the leadership of Colonel Karapetyan carried out research to determine the possibilities for the joint use of the Su-30 and MiG-31B.

A group of aircraft (two MiG-31Bs and four Su-30s), taking off from an airfield in the center of the European part of Russia, was supposed to hit targets at the Ashuluk training ground in the Astrakhan region and intercept a mock enemy over the White Sea.


The group was supported by an A-50 AWACS aircraft and two Il-78 tankers. A-50 patrolled in a specially designated area, monitored the air situation and coordinated the actions of a group of fighters. The MiG-31Bs were in the forward echelon, detecting targets at a distance of up to 200 km with their excellent locators and transmitting information about them to the pilots of the Su-30 aircraft, which, according to the plan of the operation, were supposed to attack the targets. The flight route was 8500 km, the aircraft spent about 10 hours in the air. Three air refuelings were made.

In 1998, a group of the same size escorted a group of Tu-160 and Tu-95MS strategic bombers to Novaya Zemlya.


So, on the basis of a combat training aircraft, a long-range fighter appeared, capable of solving a wide variety of tasks in the air. The only drawback of the aircraft was its complexity, because of this, the production of the Su-30 went at a very low pace.

On the basis of the Su-30, an export version of the aircraft, the Su-30K, was developed, intended for deliveries to other countries. There are 12 such countries so far.

The power plant of the Su-30 is almost identical to the Su-27 and consists of two turbojet engines with afterburners AL-31F.

The armament of the Su-30 consists of a single-barreled automatic gun GSh-310 with a caliber of 30 mm and an ammunition load of 150 rounds. The gun is installed in the influx of the right side of the wing.


Rocket armament is located at 10 points: 4 - under the wing consoles, 2 - under the wingtips, 2 - under the engine nacelles and 2 - under the center section between the engine nacelles.

The aircraft can carry up to 6 medium-range air-to-air missiles of the R-27 type or various modifications (R-27ET, R-27ER). On the underwing nodes, 4 short-range missiles of the R-73 type can be placed.


It is worth mentioning stealth, which is so fashionable today. The Su-30 is strikingly different in this regard from fifth-generation aircraft, which prefer to attack targets by relying on AWACS with their powerful search radars that highlight targets for fighters.

The Su-30 itself searches for and destroys targets, relying on the work of its electronic systems, without the help of an AWACS aircraft, which can be considered a kind of weak link, because a bulky and slow aircraft is perfectly intercepted by complexes of the S-400 type with special 40N6E missiles designed specifically for destruction such aircraft. And for enemy interceptors, the AWACS aircraft is a very simple target.

For the Su-30, in terms of classification, “4 ++” is applicable, and this is really not a fifth-generation aircraft, quiet and secretive, striking from long distances, but which must be driven by the hand. The Su-30 is an aircraft that operates on its own, and the invisibility of fifth-generation machines in it is compensated by the most powerful electronic warfare equipment. In our case, this is so far "Sorption-S" and "Khibiny", "so far" - this is because in the future there are newer aviation electronic warfare systems.

The use of existing complexes in combat conditions has shown that they are able to cope not only with fighter radars, but also with air defense systems. The issue of fifth-generation fighters, behind which target designation aircraft loom, is still open.

Su-30MK



This aircraft made its first flight in 1999. It should be mentioned separately, since the difference between the Su-30 and Su-30MK is very significant.

The idea was this: on the basis of a long-range fighter-interceptor, to create a strike aircraft for front-line aviation. The name Su-30MK testified that the aircraft was primarily intended for export sales. It was believed that the aircraft would be able to cope not only with the destruction of air targets, like its predecessor, but also successfully attack ground and sea targets.


The Su-30MK already had 12 suspension points, 10 of them could be equipped with guided missile weapons. The total weight of the weapons was 8 kg.

To work on air targets, all the same all-aspect missiles with different guidance systems R-27R1, R-27RE, R-27TE, RVV-AE and R-73 were used.

Sea and ground targets were supposed to be destroyed by Kh-31P missiles (anti-radar missile), Kh-25ML, Kh-29L, Kh-29T, Kh-59M cruise missiles with remote control, corrected by KAB-500 aerial bombs. Plus, it was possible to use a wide range of conventional unguided rockets and bombs.



The Kh-31P could hit all types of radars of medium and long-range anti-aircraft missile systems without the aircraft entering their affected area, the Kh-59M generally worked on the “fire and forget” principle. In general, the range of weapons was more than impressive.

The Su-30MK was to be equipped with a new weapons control system and a new radar. This was required by new high-precision weapons placed on the aircraft, and new equipment was to maximize the effectiveness of its use in all weather conditions.

However, it turned out that the internal volume of the fighter was not able to accommodate all the necessary equipment. Partially it was necessary to place the control equipment on the nodes of the external suspension. For example, a laser targeting and ranging system for missiles with laser seekers and a thermal imaging system for monitoring and detecting targets in the infrared range were located in hanging containers.

Both cockpits in the Su-30MK were made identical in terms of control of both the aircraft and weapons.



This made it possible to distribute control responsibilities between the two pilots. The Su-30MK became capable of loitering in the air for up to 10 hours of flight time.

The ways of using the new aircraft have also expanded. If the Su-30 was intended to combat air targets as a fighter-interceptor, then the Su-30MK added the search and destruction of sea and ground targets to the Su-30's ability to gain air superiority, escort bombers and long patrols.

The aircraft got fatter, the maximum takeoff weight increased from 30 to 38,8 tons, the combat load also increased from 4 to 8 tons.


Despite the fact that the Su-30MK became a participant in a large number of air shows, no one was in a hurry to purchase the aircraft. A common practice in the world: you should not buy an aircraft that is not in service with the country of manufacture. But the Russian Ministry of Defense did not seek to acquire the Su-30MK, and everything was ugly with the funds.

Meanwhile, the aircraft was very different from the Su-30. The differences should be mentioned separately, because it is easier to understand the amount of work done by the Sukhoi Corporation:
- an additional front horizontal tail appeared, which was installed in the influx of the wing;
- AL-31PF engines with thrust vector control;
- color LCD displays in the new indication and warning system;
- doubled combat load;
- two additional suspension points for weapons;
- the possibility of destroying sea and land targets with the corresponding types of weapons;
- a new radar sighting system capable of detecting and tracking up to 15 air targets while simultaneously attacking four of them;
- satellite navigation system based on GLONASS;
- helmet-mounted target designation system.

It is worth saying a few words about the latter. On the Su-30MK, a target designation system was worked out in practice, which was carried out by turning the pilot's head in the direction where the target was expected. The optical-laser tracking system scanned the space in the sector and issued instructions to the missile homing heads.

The fuel reserve compared to the Su-30 was reduced to 5 kg, which ensured a flight duration of up to 270 hours. With in-flight refueling, the flight duration increased to 4,5 hours. The Su-10MK could during this time fly up to 30 thousand kilometers at an altitude of 8-11 km.

Sioux 30M2



The next aircraft in the Su-30 family was more fortunate. Only 2010 years passed from the moment of the first flight in 4 to receiving a place in the state defense order. In 2014, the first aircraft
Su-30M2 were shipped from the plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur to the Ministry of Defense.

Su-30M2 was created on the basis of the Su-30MK2 version, but was intended for the Russian Air Force. The fighter was intended to destroy both manned and unmanned aerial vehicles in the air at short and medium distances. With the use of appropriate weapons, the Su-30M2 could hit ground and sea targets in weather conditions of varying degrees of adverse weather and in electronic countermeasures.

It differed from the basic version of the Su-30M2 by its increased flight range and updated on-board equipment.


The main differences between the Su-30M2 are:
- increased flight range;
- a radically modified weapons control system;
- new display system in the cockpit;
- improved communication and navigation equipment;
- updated airborne defense system.

The new weapon control system provided search, detection, tracking and destruction of targets in all weather conditions and at any time of the day.

The weapon control system consists of two independent systems.

The first controls air-to-air missiles and consists of an aiming system, a radar, an optical-electronic aiming system and a windshield display system.

The second system provides for the use of the entire range of air-to-surface weapons, both conventional and high-precision. Data on the operation of the system is displayed on four multifunctional indicators on the instrument panels of the pilots.

Otherwise, according to its characteristics, the Su-30M2 does not stand out from the general range. The Su-30M2 was the first aircraft of this family to enter service with the Russian Aerospace Forces.


However, if we compare it with the Su-30SM and Su-35, then the Su-30M2 is significantly inferior to these models. Experts believe that this is due to the fact that the Su-30MK2 or MKK commercial vehicle was taken as the basis, that is, the export version created in Komsomolsk-on-Amur for China.

It was noted that the Su-30M2 model has a significantly lower modernization potential compared to other aircraft of the family.

The role assigned to the Su-30M2 in modern doctrine is to support single-seat fighters in air combat and use them as all-weather fighters.

Sioux 30SM



This machine was developed at the Sukhoi Design Bureau as part of the work on the creation of modern highly maneuverable fighters.

The aircraft possessed super-maneuverability, was equipped with a radar with an active phased antenna array, engines with a controlled thrust vector AL-31FP.

The fighter jet made its first flight in 2012.

In fact, the Su-30SM is a Russified version of the Su-30MKI aircraft, which was created in the late 90s by order of the Indian Air Force. However, the Su-30SM does not have on board the fruits of international cooperation. The Su-30MKI had quite a lot of systems developed or produced in countries such as France and Israel, with all the ensuing consequences.

This is a heavy fighter or even a multi-purpose aircraft, since the Su-30SM is capable of not only conducting maneuverable air combat or intercepting enemy aircraft, but also striking ground targets, both stationary and mobile. The aircraft can also be used to attack surface ships.

The layout of the systems in the fuselage repeats the Su-30 and Su-30MKI.


An important feature of the Su-30SM is its flight instability in the longitudinal channel. In order to avoid yaw and not strain the pilots with the difficult tasks of piloting such an aircraft, a separate electronic system controls the rudders and deflected nozzles of the engines. Engine nozzles can deviate both synchronously with the rudders and planes, and separately from them.

The aircraft is equipped with the H0011M Bars radar control system, which is capable of tracking up to 15 targets and hitting 1 short-range target or 4 long-range targets, moreover, to do this in the condition of electronic countermeasures.

The phased antenna array is rightly criticized for its weight and size, but it is thanks to the phased array that the aircraft gains an advantage in detecting the enemy first.

The information received from the radar and processed by the onboard computer system is projected onto the windshield and into the pilots' helmet-mounted target designation system. In addition, information is displayed on the multifunctional LCD screens of the pilots, which allows the pilots to have the highest level of assessment of the environment.

It is believed that the Bars radar is also capable of detecting fifth-generation "invisibles".

The design of the Su-30SM also does not use stealth technology. Similarly, the Su-30 is an aggressive aircraft, therefore, the Sorption and Khibiny electronic warfare systems were used in the defense system.


The electronic systems of the Su-30SM have an open-type architecture, that is, the inclusion of new weapons systems or electronic warfare in the avionics will be as simple as possible to adapt. This is what makes the Su-30SM a very versatile aircraft capable of changing its specialization from a fighter-interceptor to a strike aircraft in the shortest possible time.

LTH Su-30SM

Wingspan, m: 14,70
Aircraft Length, m: 21,94
The height of the aircraft, m: 6,375
Wing area, м2: 62,00

Weight kg
- normal takeoff: 24 900
- maximum take-off: 34 500
- fuel: 9 640

Engines: 2 x turbofan AL-31FP x 12800 kgf

Maximum speed km / h
- at height: 2 125
- near the ground: 1 350

Practical range, km: 3 000
Practical ceiling, m: 17 300

Crew, prs: 2

Armament:
- 30-mm gun GSH-301 with 150 rounds of ammunition;
- 8000 kg combat load on 12 pylons.

Su-30: it turned out somewhat different from what was planned

Combat load may include:
- up to 6 air-to-air missiles R-27R / ER, R-73E and R-77 (RVV-AE);
- 2 missiles R-27P (EP), R-27T1 (ET1);
- up to 6 air-to-surface missiles of the Kh-29T/L, Kh-25ML, Kh-25LD, Kh-31A/P and S-25L types;
- 2 Kh-59ME cruise missiles;
- 6 bombs KAB-500KR, KAB-500OD or
- 3 KAB-1500KR, KAB-1500L
- free-falling bombs of calibers from 100 to 500 kg;
- 8 bomb cassettes RBC-500 SPBE-D;
- up to 8 incendiary tanks ZB-500 PT
- NURS S-8, S-13 and S-25.


Suspension of containers with electronic warfare equipment, laser rangefinder and target designation systems, IR stations is also provided.


As a result, we can say that the attempt to "plug holes" in the military doctrine in the 90s, caused by the sad state of the military budget and all the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation as a whole, turned out to be more than successful. It turned out to create a really useful and, most importantly, versatile aircraft with good flight characteristics and an impressive set of weapons.

But they really only wanted to save on airfields in the North ...


However, the combat use of the Russian Aerospace Forces aircraft in Syria and during a special operation in Ukraine, as well as the use of Indian Air Force aircraft, showed the real value and real capabilities of the Su-30.
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80 comments
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  1. +15
    April 20 2022 04: 31
    As time shows, stealth is not always able to serve as a decisive factor in victory. On the contrary, speed and agility can extend the life cycle of a machine.
    Good review. Thank you.
    hi
    1. +7
      April 20 2022 05: 20
      With the development of photon radar, all past games with invisibility will become a thing of the past. There are already working prototypes in Russia.
      Fortunately, it was the Yankees, not us, who spent hundreds of billions of dollars on stealth.
      1. +22
        April 20 2022 08: 41
        Quote: Kuroneko
        With the development of photon radar, all past games with invisibility will become a thing of the past. There are already working prototypes in Russia.
        Fortunately, it was the Yankees, not us, who spent hundreds of billions of dollars on stealth.

        And also Russia "has" electronic warfare capable of turning off all the electronics on the destroyer, and EMP that will burn out all the circuits and even more .... Where is all the last almost 2 months?…
        1. +16
          April 20 2022 09: 09
          The tale about the destroyer is a tale. Don't peck at the duck. Although the Khibiny is a wonderful electronic warfare / electronic warfare complex.
          And photon radars are not a matter of one year. Only the theory was tested and some real practical results were obtained, yes. But the very fine-tuning to working products will take a lot of time and effort.
          1. +20
            April 20 2022 09: 20
            Quote: Kuroneko
            The tale about the destroyer is a tale. Don't peck at the duck. Although the Khibiny is a wonderful electronic warfare / electronic warfare complex.
            And photon radars are not a matter of one year. Only the theory was tested and some real practical results were obtained, yes. But the very fine-tuning to working products will take a lot of time and effort.

            To say that there are developments or prototypes is one thing, but whether they exist is another ....
            As an example, in 19 days there will be a parade on May 9, where Armata, boomerangs and other things will be shown, let me remind you that for them this will be the 8th parade (development and refinement has been generally underway for 15 years) ... where is this equipment in parts? Why in parts of the BMP-1/2, which are 30-40 years old without modernization and do not have a corny thermal imager or night vision device? Where were the super S-400/500s when the half-century MI-24 entered our airspace with impunity for 50 km, fired back and left with impunity in the same way (it took them at least half an hour)? Maybe just the carriage of our Cinderella (MO and VPK) turned out to be a pumpkin? ...
            PS: dreams of a wunder waffle are good, but you shouldn’t drag them into reality, it can be very painful and bad ... naivety kills in such matters
            1. +8
              April 20 2022 10: 33
              The S-400 will not see beyond the hills; an attack by long-range air defense helicopters is a fairly typical tactic. Protecting a large area from this is quite difficult. A thermal imager and night vision devices can also be placed on a cart. And yet the BMP-2 is being modernized. I won’t say about the BMP-1, they are still not held in high esteem from Afghanistan, and there only the entire fighting compartment should be changed. In general, there was a comparison of the financing of the fleet, which does nothing useful, and the ground forces with aviation, which are always at war.
              1. +14
                April 20 2022 12: 20
                Quote: EvilLion
                The S-400 will not see beyond the hills; an attack by long-range air defense helicopters is a fairly typical tactic. Protecting a large area from this is quite difficult. A thermal imager and night vision devices can also be placed on a cart. And yet the BMP-2 is being modernized. I won’t say about the BMP-1, they are still not held in high esteem from Afghanistan, and there only the entire fighting compartment should be changed. In general, there was a comparison of the financing of the fleet, which does nothing useful, and the ground forces with aviation, which are always at war.


                A thermal imager can also be used on a cart ...

                But we do not produce thermal imagers.
                And it has never been produced in the quantities that are needed in the army.
                They bought something from the French.
                And then what?

                Or are thermal imagers not needed in the army?
                1. +12
                  April 20 2022 13: 13
                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  The S-400 will not see beyond the hills; an attack by long-range air defense helicopters is a fairly typical tactic. Protecting a large area from this is quite difficult. A thermal imager and night vision devices can also be placed on a cart. And yet the BMP-2 is being modernized. I won’t say about the BMP-1, they are still not held in high esteem from Afghanistan, and there only the entire fighting compartment should be changed. In general, there was a comparison of the financing of the fleet, which does nothing useful, and the ground forces with aviation, which are always at war.


                  A thermal imager can also be used on a cart ...

                  But we do not produce thermal imagers.
                  And it has never been produced in the quantities that are needed in the army.
                  They bought something from the French.
                  And then what?

                  Or are thermal imagers not needed in the army?

                  They have been producing for 3 years already, it seems like even a full cycle including all the offal. But this is based on the French, which has been installed on the T-90A since 2004, those are a thermal imager of the 90s level ... another question is the number of produced ...
                  As an airsoft player, I am actively interested in infantry equipment - even the special forces have imported thermal imagers (often night vision devices, too, far from the newest ones) from the Civil line, but the saddest thing is the radio stations are Chinese civilian models (also beofeng that I have for games), without encryption and everything else, active headphones are Chinese replicas (although the reason is banal - the domestic GSSh from the warrior is worse in total, we know they swam) ... in total there are many beautiful and different pictures, developments too, but in reality this is not ... also applies to radar aircraft (AFAR, A -50) shortage, bombarded with cast iron...
                  1. -1
                    April 25 2022 22: 19
                    Quote: parma
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    Quote: EvilLion
                    The S-400 will not see beyond the hills; an attack by long-range air defense helicopters is a fairly typical tactic. Protecting a large area from this is quite difficult. A thermal imager and night vision devices can also be placed on a cart. And yet the BMP-2 is being modernized. I won’t say about the BMP-1, they are still not held in high esteem from Afghanistan, and there only the entire fighting compartment should be changed. In general, there was a comparison of the financing of the fleet, which does nothing useful, and the ground forces with aviation, which are always at war.


                    A thermal imager can also be used on a cart ...

                    But we do not produce thermal imagers.
                    And it has never been produced in the quantities that are needed in the army.
                    They bought something from the French.
                    And then what?

                    Or are thermal imagers not needed in the army?

                    They have been producing for 3 years already, it seems like even a full cycle including all the offal. But this is based on the French, which has been installed on the T-90A since 2004, those are a thermal imager of the 90s level ... another question is the number of produced ...
                    As an airsoft player, I am actively interested in infantry equipment - even the special forces have imported thermal imagers (often night vision devices, too, far from the newest ones) from the Civil line, but the saddest thing is the radio stations are Chinese civilian models (also beofeng that I have for games), without encryption and everything else, active headphones are Chinese replicas (although the reason is banal - the domestic GSSh from the warrior is worse in total, we know they swam) ... in total there are many beautiful and different pictures, developments too, but in reality this is not ... also applies to radar aircraft (AFAR, A -50) shortage, bombarded with cast iron...

                    For the Warrior, new ears will be produced GSSh-01 6M2, they say it will be better.
                    As for radio stations, they write that Azart 1 is even exported, from the age of 23 they will release Azart 2.
              2. +2
                April 21 2022 15: 26
                Why doesn’t he do it? He drives pirates, accompanies convoys to Syria, hits the enemy with calibers. The Navy is a big deal.
            2. +4
              April 20 2022 11: 13
              Read for yourself.
              https://naukatehnika.com/fotonnye-radary-fotonika-stels-texnologii.html

              And this is consistently implemented.
          2. +4
            April 20 2022 11: 28
            "And photon radars are not a matter of one year. Only a theory has been tested" ///
            ---
            Photon radar is called lidar. laser with measurement
            the time of return of light from the irradiated object.
            As with any laser (and any photonic system), the problem is signal fading with distance.
            The shorter the wavelength (and the photon is also a wave),
            the faster the decay. Therefore, the centimeter + decimeter range is used for
            The best compromise is distance-distinctness of decoding.
            1. -2
              April 20 2022 11: 39
              Well, let's talk about physics.
              A photon is a wave, I do not argue. Will you argue that he is also a particle?
              And how the photon behaves depends on the measurement technique?
              1. +9
                April 20 2022 11: 51
                This rofar is a logical continuation of AFAR.
                With connection to a microwave (submillimeter wave) system.
                And sending radio waves with mini lasers, not electricity.
                Until Russia masters mass production
                compact AFAR radiating cells, there is nothing to think
                about rofar.
                1. +3
                  April 20 2022 12: 52
                  But when it can - it's not exactly if, but when (there are already working prototypes) - let's talk about the profitability of stealth technologies into which trillions of dollars have been pumped, okay?
                  1. +5
                    April 20 2022 15: 31
                    There are also big billions in the S-400. Although it does not protect against stealth in any way.
                    So it's hard to talk about the future :)
                  2. -1
                    April 24 2022 06: 14
                    Quote: Kuroneko
                    But when it can - it's not exactly if, but when (there are already working prototypes) - let's talk about the profitability of stealth technologies into which trillions of dollars have been pumped, okay?

                    And have we "Belka" gone into mass production? Radar at the Su-30, Su-34, Su-35 with AFAR? You were rightly told that in 20 years we cannot put into production what is already standard on all Western cars, and you are talking about some kind of prototypes, rofars. And in 20 years it won't be either. Our country has become like this ... we endlessly modernize Soviet developments, and there is not enough competence / personnel to develop and bring to the series. An example for you is one of a hundred - the Su-57. Where are the new engines (serial)? There is not. It's been 20 years now, they recently said 2027, not earlier. And how many AFARs have been made in all this time? Less than ten. 4 were put on combat vehicles and the same number on T-50 prototypes.
                    The same will happen with PAK YES - you'll see. And Armata, which has been on "tests" for 10 years now. But in fact, the Soviet T-72B3 and the old Su-30 and Su-34 are fighting with more Soviet radars and engines ...
                    1. +1
                      April 24 2022 09: 59
                      "Squirrel" is not produced by itself, but for installation on a specific aircraft, and on those aircraft where it is supposed to stand, it is worth it, which you yourself confirmed in your message. And already "AFAR or not AFAR" ... there are much more important things in radar than the type of radar antenna.
          3. +14
            April 20 2022 12: 18
            Quote: Kuroneko
            The tale about the destroyer is a tale. Don't peck at the duck. Although the Khibiny is a wonderful electronic warfare / electronic warfare complex.
            And photon radars are not a matter of one year. Only the theory was tested and some real practical results were obtained, yes. But the very fine-tuning to working products will take a lot of time and effort.


            For 10 years now I have been hearing that already the day after tomorrow photon radars will go into service ...
            it's all bullshit.
            AFAR did not succeed in doing so in a single serial.

            There are rules of mechanics and technology - step by step gradualness.
            You can’t transfer from a cart to a modern Tesla.
            First you need to go all the way to the development of each stage, work it out "from scratch" to "squeezing dry" and then to the next stage. And there is also from zero to the limit.

            And you are talking nonsense about the possibility of jumping generations ...
            Without the availability of intermediate technologies.
            1. -2
              April 20 2022 12: 50
              And you are talking nonsense about the possibility of jumping over generations ... Without the availability of intermediate technologies.

              Russia has already done this. For example, combined and dynamic armor and smoothbore guns on tanks. What was a breakthrough, which the West was able to close only after decades.
              And yes, if you could notice, I am not a jingoistic patriot, and I don’t think that photonics will go into mass production tomorrow, but the fact is the fact. They once, but go. And after that, all stealth technology will be screwed up, which is important. All stealth fighters and stealth bombers will become obsolete at once. Well, stealth ships, although this will affect them to a lesser extent.
              1. +9
                April 20 2022 13: 52
                Quote: Kuroneko
                And you are talking nonsense about the possibility of jumping over generations ... Without the availability of intermediate technologies.

                Russia has already done this. For example, combined and dynamic armor and smoothbore guns on tanks. What was a breakthrough, which the West was able to close only after decades.
                And yes, if you could notice, I am not a jingoistic patriot, and I don’t think that photonics will go into mass production tomorrow, but the fact is the fact. They once, but go. And after that, all stealth technology will be screwed up, which is important. All stealth fighters and stealth bombers will become obsolete at once. Well, stealth ships, although this will affect them to a lesser extent.


                Combined and dynamic armor is not a jump from a wooden shield into multi-layered heterogeneous tank armor.
                This is at first the path from simple iron sheets, through alloying, through the development of strength of materials and materials science, then experiments and research in combination, and so on.
                Our scientists, engineers have been doing all this for tens and hundreds of years step by step...
                Evolution.
                Here's what I'm talking about.
                The creation of tank smoothbore guns is a definite rollback. Conscious degradation for the sake of the desired results..
                At first, all types of small arms and artillery were smooth-bore, then rifled barrels evolved.
                And they remained everywhere, except for tank guns.

                And where does the breakthrough come from, if both combined and dynamic armor were created at about the same time. Plus or minus 5 years.
                You didn’t put a railgun or a combat laser on a tank in the 70s.
                You think you can jump over stairs.
                Not allowed.
                only step by step.
                1. +2
                  April 20 2022 15: 55
                  The smoothbore gun provides a greater initial speed, since less energy is spent on the passage of rifling, while the accuracy for tank guns is quite sufficient, which is why everyone except the Britons switched to smoothbore tank guns.
                2. +6
                  April 20 2022 16: 10
                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  You think you can jump over stairs.
                  Not allowed.
                  only step by step.

                  There is a good anecdote about how two friends were going to go jogging in the mornings on the weekend.
                  They call each other on the first Saturday, one says to the other, they say, get up, they ran along the Boulevard Ring. He replies: "I feel so sleepy, let's run right along Sadovoye next weekend." On the next, the story repeats itself, that grit, they say, let's sleep, and on the next we will run right along the Moscow Ring Road.
                  Here is your dialogue inspired laughing
            2. 0
              15 July 2022 22: 01
              The Chinese are doing it well. Jump through the generations.
          4. 0
            April 21 2022 22: 08
            Quote: Kuroneko
            The tale about the destroyer is a tale. Don't peck at the duck. Although the Khibiny is a wonderful electronic warfare / electronic warfare complex.

            A fairy tale is a lie, but there is a hint in it! Good fellows lesson. Something knocked out their electronics. Even though I’m at a construction site, crawling in a pit all my working life, but I understand that since something turned off, it means someone had a hand in it. The question arises - who and what. If not "khibiny" means someone shied away from the shore with something, which is also not bad. Although, on Evening Vladlen - there was a video about drones, where it was said that a few minutes before the airstrike of the Aerospace Forces, all radio communication and communication with copters is completely lost (they lost devices at first). The fighters have realized this topic and are trying not to use their birds at this time. To the subject. Okay on land, but the question arises: what kind of electronic warfare complex at sea, at such a distance, can commit such a "meanness"? The ship was at a decent distance from the shore.
            1. 0
              April 22 2022 07: 21
              Lord - stop carrying this game about "cutting down electronics" on enemy ships already. I will explain to everyone where this fake came from and is multiplying. Russia does not have air-based anti-ship missiles in service. Therefore, it is supposed to fire at ships - anti-radar missiles of the Kh-31P type. Therefore, the standard NATO tactic is practicing the complete shutdown of radars as a countermeasure to guidance. That's all. No one turned off anything to anyone - if they turn it off, then they do it that way.
        2. -3
          April 20 2022 15: 56
          Does anyone have destroyers in "the last almost 2 months" ??
          1. +1
            April 20 2022 16: 13
            Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
            Does anyone have destroyers in "the last almost 2 months" ??

            There are no destroyers, but there is an anti-ship missile, which, apparently, sank the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet ... the latter was even forced to send a “save our souls” signal on an open frequency to everyone around ...
            1. -4
              April 20 2022 16: 16
              And Dunka from Bakharevka, apparently, pissed in the bushes ...
              The question was about destroyers - was the answer given?
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. 0
          April 25 2022 09: 28
          Come on! I thought this story was long gone...
      2. 0
        April 21 2022 16: 54
        Fortunately, it was the Yankees, not us, who spent hundreds of billions of dollars on stealth.

        But how much dough they drank ...
    2. -18
      April 20 2022 05: 27
      Gnus got out, minus everything and everyone
      1. +1
        April 20 2022 06: 20
        What is the point of these actions?
        1. -2
          April 20 2022 07: 14
          So he's a midge - wings and a proboscis ... that's the whole point)))
        2. -9
          April 20 2022 07: 24
          Quote: Why do you need
          What is the point of these actions?

          Shit
    3. +1
      April 20 2022 06: 29
      hi
      The author meant the GSh-301 gun, not the GSh-310 wink
      1. -4
        April 20 2022 07: 29
        Quote: Mister X
        The author meant the GSh-301 gun, not the GSh-310

        Article
        The gun is installed in the influx of the right side of the wing.

        But in the photo it is clearly the left wing
        1. +5
          April 20 2022 07: 56
          Quote: Seryoga64
          But in the photo it is clearly the left wing

          The photo clearly shows ammunition, not a gun barrel wink

          Quote: Bongo
          .

          What kind of shells are in the photo, and where do they fit?
          Which side is the gun on the SU-30?
          1. +10
            April 20 2022 08: 59
            The gun is in the right boule, the ammo box is in the middle, loading the ammo into the box from the left boule. The photo shows 30 mm shells for the gun, in the tape at the time of laying.
      2. +10
        April 20 2022 08: 46
        Hello hello
        Quote: Mister X
        The author meant the GSh-301 gun, not the GSh-310

        Of course, when writing an article, anyone can inadvertently make a mistake or make an inaccuracy. But this is clearly too much, even I can see it.
        I will not reproduce the untranslatable idioms that Seryozha expressed about this publication. If translated into common printed language, it turns out that everyone should write about what they understand at least a little.
        1. +4
          April 20 2022 10: 17
          If we note all the absurdities of the article, then the comment will be at least comparable to its size. sad Therefore, I decided to refrain, but now ... smile
    4. 0
      April 20 2022 10: 31
      What time and where (place) is it shown?
  2. +4
    April 20 2022 04: 38
    As people in the thread say, pilots from the Su-30 were retrained on the Su-24SM. They, unlike pure fighters, "see the ground."
    1. +5
      April 20 2022 05: 21
      Retrained mainly with the MiG-29.
      1. -1
        April 21 2022 06: 32
        I have other information
    2. +2
      April 20 2022 05: 33
      Quote: Moore
      They, unlike pure fighters, "see the ground."

      And pure fighters, who are they?
  3. +4
    April 20 2022 05: 36
    Export versions are mentioned somehow in passing. But it was export that determined the technical appearance of the Su30 family, and the very fact of its existence.
    1. -7
      April 20 2022 06: 23
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Export versions are mentioned somehow in passing.

      laughing Condolences ... Problems with the spelling of adverbs - neither slipping nor casually go away ...
      There is another option: "in slip" ... :waat:
    2. +8
      April 20 2022 06: 35
      But it was export that determined the technical appearance of the Su30 family, and the very fact of its existence.

      In fairness, it was the fat contracts with India in the "holy 90s" that saved most of our design bureaus. And aviation, and the fleet, and rocket and tank building.
  4. -6
    April 20 2022 06: 23
    Pagosyan saved the country.

    And took a moment.
    Life goes on.
    Man does not live by heaven alone.
    And the sky is not the same.
  5. +7
    April 20 2022 06: 39
    The author, is it Bars-afar?
    1. +16
      April 20 2022 08: 40
      Quote: Andy
      The author, is it Bars-afar?

      Unfortunately, the author is very far from military aviation and in some places does not understand what he is writing about. For example, a respected author claims that the design of the Su-27P (option for the air defense forces) began in parallel with the Su-30. Apparently, the author confuses with the Su-27SM, created on the basis of the Su-27SK. Another question, how can they be confused?
      1. kig
        +16
        April 20 2022 10: 13
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        the author is very far from military aviation

        Do not touch the author, he is busy with useful work - the search for traitors and degenerates. And the planes are so, at your leisure.
      2. +7
        April 20 2022 19: 10
        Good afternoon, Olechka, and also hello to Sergey. I read the article and got upset, and then I remembered that I posted a book about the Su-30K on the Dimma forum and I advise everyone to read it, very interesting, especially modifications. Happy Pesach.

        http://militaryruia.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=734&t=2259&sid=c6277860b1d724e6f3b3f3958359829d&start=440
      3. +2
        April 20 2022 23: 55
        Hello Olga!
        I do not agree with the author of the article that AWACS can be hit by S-400 type air defense systems.
        He stupidly will not enter the radius of his defeat, since his radar sees targets up to 600 km. And then, even if it comes up to a distance of 350-400 km from the air defense system, then who will launch a missile at it at such a distance?
        Is there any practice of hitting SAM targets at such a distance?
        AWACS will just drop a couple of hundred meters of the ceiling in this case - and it disappeared on the radar.
        Because it will be below the radio horizon.
        Moreover, this will have almost no effect on its capabilities and functionality.

        Now a pair of E-3A flying out of Germany sees through almost all of Ukraine while working
        from Poland and Romania.
        They are not afraid of S-400s from Belarus and Crimea.
        1. +3
          April 21 2022 01: 11
          Moreover, on the E-3D Sentry block 30/35 aircraft, an RTR system based on a phased array with high accuracy and a range of up to 600 km is installed.
          The station intercepts signals with any linear and circular polarization. The foreign press emphasizes one important and remarkable feature of it: the productivity is 100 recognitions of radiation sources in 10 s.

          For radio interception, four antennas are used: nose, tail and two side phased arrays (on the right and left sides), having a size of 3,9x0,84 m, which protrude 46 cm beyond the fuselage contours (visual sign of the E-3 aircraft of the AWACS Block 30 system /35). Since the E-3 patrols along the front lines, the main role is played by the side antenna arrays, which, judging by their impressive size, provide direction finding accuracy (or 'perhaps even interferometric measurements) not 3 °, which is typical for a simple AR-900 antenna, and at least 0,5 - 1°.

          The S-400 will not even reach him.
  6. +21
    April 20 2022 06: 54
    The author, AWACS aircraft is a necessity for any modern army, and to shoot it down in a normal army that has mastered their use is a difficult task.
    An AWACS aircraft is an antenna raised to a great height and this is the main condition for detecting and attacking low-flying missiles, aircraft and helicopters.
    For example, if over the territory of the Belgorod, Kursk and Bryansk regions there was constantly one AWACS aircraft, a couple of S-400 systems on the ground and a couple of dryers in the air, then no helicopters, planes and missiles would definitely be able to fly to us, even at low altitude , even between ravines, moreover, missile launchers, multiple launch rocket systems by AWACS aircraft with modern equipment are detected at ranges of 400-500 km, and aircraft or missiles are aimed at them.
  7. +2
    April 20 2022 07: 12
    There is information, but the language is somehow clumsy. I barely read it to the middle.
  8. +7
    April 20 2022 09: 51
    This is how the almost complete absence of AWACS aircraft in the Russian Federation suddenly became an advantage for fighter aircraft, wonderful are your deeds, Lord)
  9. +1
    April 20 2022 10: 45
    I read the article, feeling that the concept of a 2-seater aircraft is often far-fetched. Yes, for flights in the north you need a double. And all other cases of use are either handled by a single (Su-35) or a specialized shock (Su-34).
    1. +6
      April 20 2022 11: 12
      When the naval aviation of the Russian Navy looked at the Su-30SM for purchases, they immediately said that they were considering only 2-seater vehicles, including because of the difficulty of orienting themselves over the sea.
      1. 0
        April 22 2022 07: 32
        Where does this idea about the need for 2 local cars over the sea come from? Why, then, do Japan and England and Italy, for example, fly single-seaters? They have no land at all and all aviation work is supposed to be over the sea. They are stupid?
        1. 0
          April 22 2022 11: 26
          I wrote about the words of the deputy. Naval Aviation Commander when he visited us. My colleagues and I were instructed to take him through the shops and show the production of aircraft. That's when we talked. He was still very keenly interested in the possibility of the Brahmos suspension, we just had this topic for the Indians. It was not yesterday, but about 10 years ago, maybe a little less.
          As for Japan and England and Italy, I don’t know, I didn’t talk to their military.
    2. +1
      April 20 2022 15: 57
      Then people really flew and got tired, so the Su-27UB was preferred in long-distance flights. Add. a person is always good, the issue is the drawdown of performance characteristics due to additional. weight.
  10. -1
    April 20 2022 11: 07
    Do you have a plan?
    Oh, of course there is in the stable!
  11. +5
    April 20 2022 11: 36
    [quote = EvilLion And yet BMP-2s are being upgraded. I won’t say about the BMP-1, they are still not held in high esteem from Afghanistan, and there only the entire fighting compartment should be changed.

    ..I saw it myself, there were a lot of them (BMP-1) in the direction of the Kharkov region, and I suppose they were all "modernized" ..
    1. 0
      April 20 2022 15: 59
      Well, they raked everything, but we have lards for aircraft carriers. However, there are divisions on MTLB. As a tracked vehicle, they love it.
  12. -5
    April 20 2022 11: 48
    Quote: parma

    To say that there are developments or prototypes is one thing, but whether they exist is another ....
    As an example, in 19 days there will be a parade on May 9, where Armata, boomerangs and other things will be shown, let me remind you that for them this will be the 8th parade (development and refinement has been generally underway for 15 years) ... where is this equipment in parts? Why in parts of the BMP-1/2, which are 30-40 years old without modernization and do not have a corny thermal imager or night vision device? Where were the super S-400/500s when the half-century MI-24 entered our airspace with impunity for 50 km, fired back and left with impunity in the same way (it took them at least half an hour)? Maybe just the carriage of our Cinderella (MO and VPK) turned out to be a pumpkin? ...
    PS: dreams of a wunder waffle are good, but you shouldn’t drag them into reality, it can be very painful and bad ... naivety kills in such matters

    Do you absolutely need the Armats to fight? T-90 won't fit?
    Regarding the C400-500. Well, it is clear that they are still located (more precisely, they were placed, because few people know about the conclusions drawn from the sorties of turntables to Russia) in the most critical places. You don’t run across them along the entire length of the border with the outskirts. In addition, the relief of the Belgorod region does not contribute to their effective use. Beeches are needed there, most likely, which, again, cannot be placed on every kilometer. In addition, the Nazis are helped by their scouts, and they flew exactly there and when it was most effective, I think.
    In short, new weapons are good, but very expensive, and so far they cannot really replace the proven old ones (which are not so old and bad), if only because there are few of them in the troops.
    1. +5
      April 20 2022 12: 21
      Have you seen a lot of Tai T-90M at least?
  13. 0
    April 20 2022 14: 24
    As a result, it is urgent to upgrade to CM2 and not pull too hard to CM3 (with components from Su57), adopt an aiming container .... and finish with leapfrog Su34, 30, 35 ..... and smoothly convert Su34 into specialized vehicles EW, etc.
  14. +2
    April 20 2022 15: 00
    Quote: ramzay21
    For example, if there was one AWACS aircraft constantly over the territory of the Belgorod, Kursk and Bryansk regions, a couple of S-400 systems on the ground and a couple of dryers in the air, then no helicopters, planes and missiles would definitely be able to fly to us

    The most important question remains why this is not being done? Do you have any ideas?
    1. +3
      April 20 2022 15: 20
      Quote: certero
      The most important question remains why this is not being done?

      Yes, everything is very simple.
      SAM is expensive. You can't bet on every bump.
      DLRO is also expensive. And also difficult. The industry is not up to the task. There are no carrier aircraft. No hardware.
      Those old men that are, with constant duty, will instantly work out the entire resource.
    2. -1
      April 20 2022 16: 00
      And who said that it is not being done?
  15. +3
    April 20 2022 16: 21
    Quote: Kuroneko
    But when it can - it's not exactly if, but when (there are already working prototypes) - let's talk about the profitability of stealth technologies into which trillions of dollars have been pumped, okay?

    With such a pace of development, not only stealth aircraft, but in general, manned combat aircraft will work out their cycle long ago, fulfill their purpose and turn into beer cans. And here we are with the photon prodigy. laughing
  16. 0
    April 20 2022 18: 23
    Quote from jngus
    Have you seen a lot of Tai T-90M at least?

    I did not see. But I did not write that they are there. I asked if the T-90 would fit instead of the Armat.
  17. PPV
    +7
    April 20 2022 20: 34
    Unfortunately, the article does not contain any new information or any of the author's own thoughts about this family of aircraft, but is simply an illiterate plagiarism of various previously published materials on the topic. Moreover, the author manages to give obviously erroneous data. What is worth, for example, the statement that the fuel supply on the Su-30MK compared to the Su-30 was reduced to 5270 kg. Sadly ...
  18. +1
    April 21 2022 22: 35
    Skomorokhov outdid himself, in terms of oil for the soul. But people are already worried. I was surprised today at lunch - in the smoking room, colleagues are discussing the old, in their opinion, x-29. Even if non-topwar visitors have similar moods... Well, that's fine. On the topic - the Su-30cm is pretty outdated, the radar is rather outdated and, apparently, even with a replacement for "Bars" you can't fix this (it seems to be still modern, but morally outdated). Here it is necessary to competently cooperate with the Indians for modernization. Otherwise, they will do the upgrade without us. As practice shows, for some reason, our military-industrial complex is not particularly interested in modernization (except for UVZ, perhaps). And so much so that they agree to less money, but for its imitation. Or vice versa - an expensive remake, everything from scratch. How else to explain the lack of modern guided munitions for MLRS, aerial bombs with Glonass and much more in large quantities.
    1. +1
      April 22 2022 10: 39
      On the subject - the Su-30cm is pretty outdated, the radar is rather outdated and, apparently, even with a replacement for "Bars" you can't fix this
      The Bars-R is already on the Su-30SM, and in the Russian version, which in terms of its characteristics surpasses the Bars from the Indian Su-30MKI. And the Indians themselves are not capable of modernizing anything. And the direction of modernization of our Su-30SM has already been described many times, this is the transition to the components of the Su-35.
  19. 0
    6 July 2022 09: 04
    Quote: Kuroneko
    And photon radars are not a matter of one year.

    And this is an even bigger fairy tale than turning off the destroyer's electronics.
  20. 0
    15 July 2022 23: 09
    SU-30 without AFAR, with obsolete BB R-27, R-73 missiles and also with NURS s-8; 13 is already the last century. And the combat load of 8 tons is inferior even to the single-engine F-16, which has 9 tons. And it is no longer in demand on the international market. Even India, which has a license for its production, no longer wants to do this. He buys French Rafaels at exorbitant prices, because they have better electronics, AFAR, economical engines, and an excellent meteor explosive rocket.

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