MILAN anti-tank missile systems for the Ukrainian army

91

Calculation of ATGM MILAN ER in position. Photo MBDA Systems

Foreign states are actively supplying the Ukrainian army with various types of anti-tank weapons. Several countries at once promised to send French-German-made MILAN man-portable missile systems to Ukraine. To date, these products have come to Ukrainian territory and are being mastered by personnel. In the near future this weapon may get to the forefront, but the possibility of its effective use is questionable.

foreign aid


Back in late February, European countries began to announce plans to provide military-technical assistance to Ukraine. France was one of the first to disclose such information. Then it was reported that in the near future she would transfer several dozen anti-tank systems from the warehouses of her army. The type of products was not mentioned, but it could be assumed that these were MILAN complexes.



Italy soon announced similar intentions. She planned to send a variety of infantry weapons, incl. MILAN products and other anti-tank weapons. At the same time, the number of weapons and the timing of their delivery were not specified again.

Reliable information about the arrival of MILAN anti-tank systems to Ukraine appeared only a few days ago. The American television channel CNN showed one of the Ukrainian units, where personnel are being trained with the participation of foreign instructors. In particular, they showed the process of training operators of anti-tank systems. Judging by what was shown, Ukraine received an ATGM of one of the old modifications, such as MILAN 2/2T.


The process of training Ukrainian operators. Frame from CNN / ChDambiev report

The total number of MILANs transferred remains unknown. From the available data, it follows that Ukraine received at least several dozen launchers and containers with missiles. Information about the receipt of complexes on the front line and about their combat use has not yet been received. However, it can be expected that they will be used in the very near future.

"Light Infantry Rocket"


The MILAN complex (Missile d'Infanterie Léger Antichar - "Light infantry anti-tank missile") has been developed since the early sixties by order of the armed forces of Germany and France. The project involved several companies from two countries; in the early seventies, on the eve of the start of mass production, they created the Euromissile consortium. Now MBDA Systems is developing a family of complexes.

The development of the project was completed in the early seventies, after which MILAN went to the test. Already in 1972, the ATGM was adopted by the customer countries. Serial production for their armies and the promotion of the complex on the international market began.

In parallel with mass production, the Euromissile consortium modernized the complex. In 1984, the upgraded MILAN 2 ATGM with an improved larger-caliber missile was adopted. In 1993, a modification of MILAN 2T with a tandem warhead appeared. A few years later, MILAN 3 was created, which is characterized by increased resistance to interference. On its basis, at the beginning of the tenth years, MILAN ER was completed with an improved range.


Rocket MILAN first version. Photo by Wikimedia Commons

Initially, MILAN ATGMs were produced only by enterprises from Euromissile. Subsequently, several foreign countries acquired a license for production. For half a century, they all produced at least 10-12 thousand launchers and about 350-400 thousand missiles. MILAN entered service with fifty countries on all continents; some of the operators have already managed to abandon such weapons and switch to newer models.

MILAN complexes have been repeatedly used in various armed conflicts. In particular, the Argentine army used them during the war in the Falklands. A certain number of such anti-tank systems in the eighties came to the Afghan Mujahideen and were used against Soviet armored vehicles. Since the late seventies, MILAN has been regularly used in conflicts in the Middle East. Now Ukraine has become a new theater for them.

Technical features


MILAN is a second-generation man-portable anti-tank missile system designed to deal with a variety of protected mobile and fixed targets. The ATGM is transported by the crew disassembled or mounted on various vehicles.

In all modifications, MILAN consists of a disposable transport and launch container with a missile, a launcher with a sight and the necessary electronics, as well as a machine for placement on a position or on a carrier. Depending on the modification, the complex has a mass of 35-37 kg.


MILAN 2 missile with improved larger caliber warhead. Photo by Wikimedia Commons

The key component of the complex is a launcher with a control system on which the TPK missile is installed. The installation is equipped with optics for searching for targets and has the necessary electronics. Missile guidance is carried out in a semi-automatic mode. The operator holds the aiming mark on the target; automation tracks the missile along the tracer, sends commands to it and keeps it on the line of sight. The transmission of commands is carried out by unwinding wire.

The MILAN missile is made in a body of complex shape: between the head and tail compartments of a larger caliber there is a reduced central assembly with folding wings. The first version of the rocket had a diameter of 103 mm. After the modernization and introduction of the new warhead, the caliber increased to 115 mm and subsequently remained at this level. Rockets of various modifications have a length of 770 mm; TPK length - from 900 to 1200 mm. The mass of early missiles did not exceed 7 kg, in later projects it went beyond 10 kg.

Ammunition of all versions are equipped with a marching solid propellant engine. The rocket exits the TPK at a speed of 75 m/s and accelerates to 200 m/s in flight. For all major modifications of the rocket, the flight range reaches 2 km. In the latest MILAN ER project, it was increased to 3 km.

The first version of the MILAN missile was equipped with a single cumulative warhead with a penetration of 350 mm. The new 115-mm warhead for the MILAN 2 rocket pierced 800 mm. The tandem warhead for MILAN 2T and MILAN 3 shows similar characteristics, but is capable of hitting armored vehicles with dynamic protection. The latest modification of MILAN ER penetrates 1000 mm behind the DZ.


MILAN ER rocket launch. Photo MBDA Systems

Manufacturers note the high reliability and efficiency of all ATGMs of the MILAN family. Over the decades of operation in range and combat conditions, more than 50 thousand launches of missiles of all types have been performed. More than 90% of the missiles successfully hit the target.

Advantages and disadvantages


The first version of the MILAN ATGM appeared and entered service half a century ago. Subsequently, several new modifications were developed with various advantages, and the last of them appeared at the beginning of the last decade. MILAN ER can still be considered a modern and effective anti-tank weapon - unlike its predecessors.

The latest versions of MILAN complexes have several important features and advantages. They include a fairly advanced launcher with a day and night channel and effective controls. During operation, the installation does not unmask itself with radiation, and the control is carried out by wire. This makes it difficult to detect the launch, intercept or suppress the missile. In the latest modifications, it was also possible to get rid of the risks of optoelectronic suppression.

The current modifications of MILAN 3 and MILAN ER are equipped with a tandem warhead that penetrates dynamic protection and 800-1000 mm of homogeneous armor. According to various estimates, this is enough to defeat the frontal projection of all modern major tanks. It is also guaranteed to penetrate the tank's armor from other angles or defeat armored vehicles of other classes with less powerful protection.


MILAN ER on a VBL armored car. The ATGM can be removed and used from the ground. Photo MBDA Systems

There are also disadvantages. First of all, these are the limited flight characteristics of the rocket. The flight speed does not exceed 200 m / s, and the most advanced modification flies only 3 km. In this regard, even the latest MILAN ER is inferior to other modern foreign-designed ATGMs. As a result, undesirable restrictions and risks arise.

Despite all the upgrades, MILAN still belongs to the second generation of anti-tank systems using semi-automatic missile guidance. The need to control the missile until it hits potentially threatens the safety of the operator. Due to the low flight data of the missile, such risks increase - the enemy has more time to detect and defeat him.

Limited danger


Early modifications of the MILAN anti-tank missile system have long been obsolete. Newer versions still retain limited potential, and the latest modifications are quite modern and effective examples. MILAN 3 and MILAN ER differ in a specific ratio of performance characteristics, but are capable of attacking and hitting different targets.

The appearance of MILAN products in Ukraine should not be ignored. Such anti-tank systems, as well as other imported products, can pose a danger to our equipment. At the same time, the risks associated with them should not be overestimated. The use of relevant tactics and methods will dramatically reduce the degree of such a threat.

In addition, it is necessary to remember the specifics of the current Special Operation. Like many other foreign weapons, MILAN anti-tank systems can be destroyed during transportation or after arrival at the combat unit. And some of them have a chance not to get hit and become a trophy of the army of Russia or the republics of Donbass.
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  1. +7
    April 15 2022 17: 57
    MILAN anti-tank missile systems for the Ukrainian army
    . Whatever junk it would not be, it could cause damage to our troops.
    Geyropa has gone berserk ... probably they really want to eat, but now they have a direct road to oblivion !!!
    They will be overwhelmed by a wave of refugees from starving countries! It’s a tsunami, they won’t survive for nothing if they don’t completely go berserk!
    1. +13
      April 15 2022 18: 08
      Quote: rocket757
      . Whatever junk it would not be, it could cause damage to our troops.

      Features:
      Firing Range, m 25-2000
      Maximum flight speed, km/h 720
      Rocket flight time at a distance of 2000 m, s 12.5
      Rocket flight time at a distance of 1000 m, s 7.3
      Rocket weight, kg 6.73
      Warhead weight, kg 3.0
      Weight of explosive warhead, kg 1.8
      Rocket weight with launch tube, kg 12.0
      Weight PU with tripod, kg 16.5
      Sighting block weight, kg 4.2
      Rate of fire, launch / min 3
      Temperature range of combat use, °С -40...+52
      Technical reliability, % more than 95
      Armor penetration when acting on homogeneous armor, mm 1000
      In capable hands, this is a serious weapon and should not be underestimated. hi
      1. -4
        April 15 2022 19: 46
        There is enough of everything ... there are serious weapons, there are also so-so, below average.
        Foreigners will strongly ... clean the warehouses with junk and ... will buy newer ones. Solid pluses, however! For arms manufacturers, but for taxpayers it is always the same, at their expense "banquet" soldier
    2. -2
      April 15 2022 18: 10
      Victor, hello, everything has been said for a long time. smile

      1. 0
        April 15 2022 19: 46
        don’t flood and don’t retreat, that’s Suvorov’s main motto
        1. +1
          April 15 2022 19: 54
          Oh smart girl. This is necessary - Suvorov, flood and "main theme". laughing
          Add something more about the anti-tank weapons of NATO countries.
          1. 0
            18 May 2022 08: 37
            This is not Suvorov, this is Omar Khayyam! laughing
      2. 0
        April 15 2022 19: 53
        Hi Konstantin soldier
        Generalissimo Suvorov is a great warrior, commander ... but, his reference to ... foreign heroes, battles, somehow not ice!
        In Russia, many of their heroes and battles took place no less, there is someone to take an example from.
        We are the descendants of OUR ANCESTORS and we should be proud of that!
        1. +5
          April 15 2022 20: 03
          Geyropa went wild

          Wow, that's exactly what I meant. without any reference to any
          ... foreign heroes,
          , although, to be honest, there were enough heroes in any country, and not only in Europe.
          1. +5
            April 15 2022 20: 46
            Heroes don't just grow in the garden, but ... they really are found everywhere.
            There is no absolute people of heroes, as well as cowards, however ... everything is everywhere.
            1. +4
              April 15 2022 22: 08
              It would be better if any war could do without heroes, but with proper command planning. Then there would be no helicopters in our oil fields and the idiotic death of "Moscow".
              1. +2
                April 16 2022 01: 43
                There is always a price to pay for mistakes. For command errors, as a rule, the most expensive ....
                I will not guess what happened there and how it happened, I hope they will sort it out objectively and the perpetrators will not escape the answer.
                The consolation is so-so, the main thing is that it did not happen again and again.
                1. +2
                  April 16 2022 11: 44
                  And in any case, gouging, or someone else's rocket hit, or your own exploded on the line. Many still do not understand that there is a real war going on, and not a walk around the neighbor's summer cottage.
                  It's a shame and bitter, but most of all I feel sorry for the guys.
      3. +2
        April 15 2022 22: 22
        )) they can’t cope with Ukraine, where is there to compete with NATO)
        1. -1
          April 16 2022 01: 06
          Go out into the open field and wave?) Are you 10 years old or what? We have a group of less than 200 thousand working on the territory from half of Europe. At the same time it comes. Surrounds and hits targets constantly. You still have not reached the fact that there will be real ruins? Despite the fact that the Ukrainian army is stupidly larger than our troops there?) Do you hear yourself at least sometimes?)
          1. 0
            April 16 2022 12: 07
            There will be no war with NATO, if anything ... there will be destruction!
            And to Ukraine, we want to free! It is not necessary to destroy, it is OURS!
        2. +1
          April 16 2022 11: 49
          For NATO, there is a weapon against NATO, and therefore they do not climb directly. As for Ukraine, Russia is fighting against itself here, remember how we turned Hitler's neck together, and to kill your brother, whether Russian or Ukrainian, is according to Cain. And it's not our fault that this happened.
          1. 0
            April 16 2022 16: 42
            What "brothers"? Wake up, young man ... These "brothers" are demolishing monuments to Soviet soldiers and officers who died defending and liberating Ukraine from the Nazi invaders and their accomplices from the OUN ... And this can only be done by Nazi Bandera, who are not our brothers at all .
      4. 0
        April 16 2022 04: 51
        That's right. Only now you have no Suvorov, no Rokossovsky, no Zhukov, no Kutuzov, and most importantly, you have no Stalin.
        1. +2
          April 16 2022 12: 10
          And who has his own Fuhrer, Napoleon, Churchill, Roosevelt and other figures of similar proportions???
        2. +1
          April 20 2022 13: 05
          Quote: Baron Pardus
          That's right. Only now you have no Suvorov, no Rokossovsky, no Zhukov, no Kutuzov, and most importantly, you have no Stalin.

          Any of you listed would bring in horror the fact of the need to attack twice the size of the army on the front in thousand kilometers. Moreover, without the possibility of dramatically increasing the grouping by 2-3-5 times .....

          Moreover, Zhukov and Rokosovsky would be surprised that only 1 battalion can attack on the main direction of attack ... Not a division / army - a battalion, or even a company
          1. 0
            April 20 2022 13: 09
            Any of the ones you listed

            Politics, sir, and purely internal, counting on the stabilization of the situation within the country. Conscripts do not want to attract.
        3. 0
          18 May 2022 08: 40
          But you have grandfather Biden
    3. +3
      April 15 2022 18: 13
      Quote: rocket757
      MILAN anti-tank missile systems for the Ukrainian army
      . Whatever junk it would not be, it could cause damage to our troops.
      Geyropa has gone berserk ... probably they really want to eat, but now they have a direct road to oblivion !!!
      They will be overwhelmed by a wave of refugees from starving countries! It’s a tsunami, they won’t survive for nothing if they don’t completely go berserk!

      In this regard, I am most surprised by the domestic media, which, like hungry dogs, are ready to gnaw at any bone that the Western media and talking heads throw at them, in particular about the fact that the United States is running out of anti-tank systems.
      Here you go, a vivid example of "our Western partners", who are still floating stale lethal products from their stocks to Ukraine, I don't particularly touch on modern developments.
      And we don’t even know how much this “trash” they have, but the fact that it is not at all a harmless children’s toy is a fact and NATO and the EU will fill up Ukraine with this “trash” to the last, if only the war of the Slavs among themselves lasts as long as possible.
      1. +1
        April 15 2022 20: 09
        Quote: credo
        In this regard, I am most surprised by the domestic media, which, like hungry dogs, are ready to gnaw any bone that the Western media and talking heads throw at them,

        Imitation, admiration for foreign ones ... they were brought up in this spirit for a long time, they themselves will not change, only drive in the ass with a kick.
        Quote: credo
        NATO and the EU will continue to overwhelm Ukraine with this "rubbish" to the last, if only the war of the Slavs among themselves lasts as long as possible.

        This is obvious and understandable ... unfortunately not for everyone.
    4. 0
      April 15 2022 19: 41
      Quote: rocket757
      Geyropa has gone berserk ... probably they really want to eat, but now they have a direct road to oblivion !!!
      They will be overwhelmed by a wave of refugees from starving countries! It’s a tsunami, they won’t survive for nothing if they don’t completely go berserk!
    5. +4
      April 15 2022 20: 21
      There was a wonderful article "I shot Milan!" https://topwar.ru/45592-ya-strelyal-milanom.html I recommend that you familiarize yourself and pay special attention to what and by what methods ATGMs were made with us and with them ..
      1. +1
        April 17 2022 09: 44
        Well, thank you. I have not read this article before. Interesting.
  2. +3
    April 15 2022 17: 58
    and the most advanced modification flies only 3 km.

    This is the real range of use of the kit carried by the infantry. 5-6 km in the existing versions of anti-tank systems make sense only in the version with the SLA, which means - on the chassis.
  3. -1
    April 15 2022 18: 09
    Since there is no end in sight to this, some obvious solutions are needed ...
  4. +21
    April 15 2022 18: 09
    Guessing on coffee grounds "effective - not effective", it is best to sit in the troop compartment of an infantry fighting vehicle and realize that somewhere beyond the copse there may very well be a position of calculation with anti-tank systems. And your car, as luck would have it, needs to pass by ...
    That's how many times I read "only the crew notices a shot from an ATGM, immediately from all barrels at the launch point! ...."
    I have been observing for a month and a half, the launches are "stupid". There, the operators sit at the monitor and, in relative safety (the launcher is far from them), fire shots. Moreover, even removing the monitor on the phone.
    So NEVER (!) the crew reacted in the above way. Either they missed the moment of launch, or in the event of a miss and only damage to the machine, they immediately left it.
    And to talk about efficiency in front of a computer, yes ... It is possible ...
    1. +17
      April 15 2022 18: 17
      Igor, spit you, it would be someone to explain.
      I thought that with the beginning of the war, the number of jingoists would decrease in our country - they would go to defend the honor of Russia. Horseradish there, as they were sitting in warm toilets, they are sitting there. And stop giving them what they don't have from birth, i.e. brain. They are fine without them. laughing
      1. +12
        April 15 2022 18: 34
        Hello Uncle Kostya. Glad to know you're alive and well. Yes, I don’t sell anything to anyone, especially since, as you correctly noted, it’s useless)
        laughing
        So many bright heads got banned. Look around - most of those who could write something sensible "... without the right to correspond." And there were those who, with a bang for patriotism, are in a hurry to earn marshal's shoulder straps.
        1. AUL
          +3
          April 16 2022 08: 59
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          And there were those who, with a bang for patriotism, are in a hurry to earn marshal's shoulder straps.

          And they are quite successful at it! Already the titles were not enough for these empty calls! At one time, I suggested introducing the additional titles "marshalalissimo" and "virtually buried in the Kremlin wall" with stars on shoulder straps 62 and 75 mm thick, respectively. Not accepted, sorry... :waat: sad
          1. 0
            April 16 2022 16: 51
            The late Leonid Shebarshin had the term 'liberalissimo'. wink
        2. +5
          April 16 2022 10: 36
          system -+ clearly drives the herd laughing with a carrot on a fishing rod in front of the nose to new "titles", something meaningful will rarely be written in response here, because afraid of not falling into the trend laughing fun to watch hamsters
          with uv. to you for your comment hi
          1. AUL
            +4
            April 16 2022 17: 29
            The rating system itself is conducive to this. I wrote about this repeatedly, but ... the voice of one crying in the wilderness! When the weight of your assessment and shoulder straps grow with the number of your comments - why not give out nonsense and loyal slogans on an industrial scale?
            1. +2
              April 16 2022 23: 06
              I agree, you are going to the forum to exchange views, not slogans, why do I need these virtual stripes, if I also have real stars laughing , I don’t believe that only members of the forum are doing this (minus), this is the policy of the moderators, but they also act according to the training manual, but as they say, give me a glass one, it will break and be cut off, except for harm, this policy of uryapatriotism does nothing, why produce liz .. ov hi
              1. AUL
                +1
                April 17 2022 08: 12
                Quote: Vavilov
                I don’t believe that only members of the forum are doing this (minus), this is the policy of the moderators,

                I don't think the moderators are doing this (although I can't completely rule it out). For this, there are enough full-time clackers, whose name is legion, and just kids, who, in pursuit of ranks, fill up all the comments with slogans and nonsense.
                About five years ago, comments were sometimes more interesting to read than the article itself. There were few Vitaliks, Okolotochny and Golovanovs. And now, in order to find a meaningful commentary, you need to shovel a bunch of nonsense and slogans. Therefore, many sensible forum users quit writing here. negative
            2. +1
              April 20 2022 13: 17
              Quote from AUL
              issue nonsense and loyal slogans on an industrial scale?

              Have you ever seen the opposite?
              When it's enough to write "Drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrringinginging everything plundered/destroyed!!! and immediately ++++++ from all sides. How - the power kicked ....
              Well, if it’s on the case, but quite often complete nonsense can be written - like the one that sometimes jumps out of "enemies of the communists" ...
              1. AUL
                0
                April 20 2022 21: 33
                Quote: your1970
                Have you ever seen the opposite?

                Enough too! Well, this is youthful maximalism.
                Quote: your1970
                quite often complete nonsense can be written - like the one that sometimes jumps out of the "enemies of the communists" ...
                Here is a special case! Plus "for fun" or out of respect for age and obstinacy. laughing
    2. -1
      April 17 2022 22: 35
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      I have been observing for a month and a half, the launches are "stupid". There, the operators sit at the monitor and, in relative safety (the launcher is far from them), fire shots. Moreover, even removing the monitor on the phone.

      And what, straight for a month and a half without coming off, are you watching the “stug” launches? What is gained by such a long viewing? For evaluation and analysis, a small amount of viewing is enough, why do you constantly look?
      1. +1
        April 17 2022 23: 25
        A month and a half goes SVO. And I try to watch all the sensible videos. And to make an opinion on one, two, three ... We do not know how many launches there were. Let's say three hundred. If there is a hundred available, then the percentage of hits is high. What if there are three? It's the same...
        1. -1
          April 20 2022 13: 22
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Let's say three hundred. If there is a hundred available, then the percentage of hits is high. What if there are three? It's the same...

          And if you shoot the same launch with 10 cameras from different angles / inclinations / filters and other things?
          Hitting 10 pieces - post 100 victory videos?
          Will the percentage of wins be high in this case?
  5. +5
    April 15 2022 18: 10
    The pumping goes with terrible force. Here are your "partners". Why are we calving ....... the masks have been dropped.
    1. +10
      April 15 2022 18: 37
      Everything is much easier. Now that is the same chess situation, when any move leads to losses on the board (it's a pity that the pawns in this "game" turned out to be people). You can not retreat, forward - only aggravate.
      Oh, I'm sure those who made the decision at the end of February are tearing their hair out in helplessness to "rewind" time back.
      1. +4
        April 15 2022 18: 48
        I would also rewind the time with pleasure ...... hi
      2. -6
        April 15 2022 18: 52
        What's the point of rewinding?
      3. +11
        April 15 2022 19: 05
        Oh, I'm sure those who made the decision at the end of February are tearing their hair out in helplessness to "rewind" time back.

        You hit the mark.
        "Three wise men in one basin
        Set sail on a thunderstorm.
        Be stronger
        Old basin
        My story would be longer." (c)
        And it's not even about the old trough under the name "Moscow".
        Obosra l is in full. Blitzkrieg, damn it, they started, everywhere it's a complete crap. Strategists, motherfucker. And analysts. laughing
        Vova is not Stalin, and the Fireman is not Rokossovsky, and everyone else is not Beria with Serov and Abakumov.
        1. +3
          April 15 2022 19: 12
          Uncle Kostya, have you visited the oryx website? There, in the photo / video materials, darkness! I don’t know how Konashenkov has the strength to tell daily reports bravura to the camera.
          1. +1
            April 15 2022 19: 15
            Have you visited the oryx website?

            Didn't go, what is it? Drop the link.
            1. +3
              April 15 2022 23: 35
              And there, as Comrade Leader said, Darkness, darkness, and only darkness.
          2. -7
            April 15 2022 21: 25
            We already have enough defeatists and false patriots, so do not pour water on their mill. An adequate person in any business professes one principle - take up the matter, bring it to the end. And every one of us is able to grind with his tongue. All of Russia is mired in this, especially the younger generation.
            1. +6
              April 16 2022 00: 57
              We already have enough defeatists and false patriots,


              And there are even more crayfish and jingoistic patriots .. You have “thrown hats” more than once, and it has always cost a lot of blood, but not yours.
            2. AUL
              +3
              April 16 2022 17: 42
              Quote: Zum
              An adequate person in any business professes one principle - take up the matter, bring it to the end.
              And what end do you see as the successful completion of this war? Achieving what goals (specifically) will put an end to this madness?
          3. -2
            April 16 2022 00: 57
            Why so modest then? Turkish-Polish experts suck. Use Ukrainian resources) There are even more. My cars and people have been destroyed three times since the age of 14. True, we were not even close there, but these are trifles.
        2. -2
          April 16 2022 00: 48
          And you can ask who and when talked about blitzkrieg? Who set deadlines? You don’t even know a hundredth of what is happening and are you already starting to whine? Yeah. Shredded the people in VO ...
          1. +1
            April 16 2022 05: 26
            And why did our servicemen take the “parade” with them at the beginning of March? To move along the trenches in it?
            Why were rations and BCs based on three days?
            1. +1
              April 16 2022 05: 39
              Rations are always issued on the basis of three days. Always. Until this time, hot meals should be organized, and you simply won’t take away more. And this is the maximum. About the parade, where does this trash come from? Apparently, they didn’t bring you the moment that the troops were sitting in the fields for about a month, right? Again, speculation, rumors, read nevmerlikov public ...
              1. +3
                April 16 2022 06: 37
                There is a video of how they rip off an ambushed column. And there, among things, a "ceremonial" uniform. There is a video of the interrogation of the prisoner, who reports that there were ... musicians (!) At the next checkpoint. Try to watch not only the video from Zvezda. Discover a lot of interesting things.
                PS You don't even know a hundredth of what's going on...
                Well, enlighten me on the "hundredth" share. Only without OBS sources or "I swear by my mother, I saw it myself" ...
                1. 0
                  April 16 2022 07: 01
                  Firstly. Musicians are always an attribute. Even in field camps. You did not serve in the army and you understand this poorly. Secondly, there is already one parade in the entire column?) Well, turn on your brain yourself. I haven't watched it yet. I'm sure it's fake. Interrogation? Not funny at all. Look, our Briton sculpts that in general he always considered Donbass a separate region. Tell me what is the point of enlightening you?) I just went to that resource and fakes flew out one by one right away) I know very well that there are decent losses in technology. Especially in the early days, when breakthroughs were organized and the tasks were not to join the battle until the approach. Ignore everything to break through to bridgeheads and objects of special importance. It couldn't have been otherwise. But not a quarter of the entire tank fleet))) What then are the losses of 404 if they are a nightmare every night for a month and a half?) When they cover with artillery, missiles, aircraft?) A thousand?) Or do you think we have less anti-tank systems and we don’t use ambushes?) Territory 404 is more 600 thousand square km. With all the desire, the operation was not planned for less than 3 months. And that's just the military. The police will drag on for years. But you read fake sites. To me, the person who made the first shot from the tank made a schoolboy of elementary grades to look at this circus is at least funny.
                  1. +4
                    April 16 2022 07: 05
                    You're right. I did not serve in the army. Only in the military school.
                    An orchestra at a checkpoint is this an attribute? Strange, but I saw our musicians only at solemn moments. At divorces, parades and funerals. Apparently, something has changed in the military doctrine.
                    Wouldn't it be difficult to point out the fakes that immediately "fell down" on you? Well, denials, of course, on them.
                    I'm not at a loss, I'll go and compare.
                    Well, how did you explore the resource I indicated, it becomes clear from your last question - what are the losses of dill. Everything is the same there, but only about the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And, believe me, the amount of destroyed equipment is indicated higher than on the "Lostarmore".
                    PS I’m the same person who made the first shot from the tank as a primary school student
                    This should probably sound like a deadly argument in your knowledge, as the last resort? Do I need to raise my hands and sprinkle ashes on my head to ask for forgiveness?
                    1. +1
                      April 16 2022 07: 26
                      I watched orchestras in places that you never even dreamed of. Do you know about divisions of your own?) How can you finish a university and not serve?) Point out fakes? I am the bearer of information. I can’t, but dozens of people have done it, and you can find it on the net without me. Don't make fun of my slippers. You have arguments for one parade in a column and an orchestra)))) plus a Polish site) I am not an authority. It’s just that according to their data, my unity was already smashed. And the brigade of my classmate is generally under zero, according to their data. And here and there fake. But I don’t forbid you to believe) it’s your business. For fakes you will fly without me)
                      1. +2
                        April 16 2022 09: 33
                        That's your whole argument - "I know, but I won't tell you" ... "What you write is fake" ...
                        Notice I never mentioned the part numbers? Because I know that even the destruction of all equipment and most of the personnel is not a sign of the destruction of the unit. There are a lot of examples in WWII. But these resources are only photo and video materials. But, as they already wrote on VO, judging by the rhetoric of our Defense Ministry, the large landing craft "Saratov" is still in service.
                        It is very possible to finish school and not get into the troops. Especially if it's an engineering school. But it’s easier with me - I didn’t graduate for health reasons. However, this does not prevent me from reasonably opposing your hurray of patriotic enthusiasm.
                        PS I do not spread fakes - I point out the resources on which everyone can draw conclusions to the best of their mental abilities.
                      2. 0
                        April 16 2022 12: 55
                        “It’s very possible to finish a school and not get into the troops. Especially if it’s an engineering school. But it’s easier with me - I didn’t graduate for health reasons. However, this doesn’t stop me from reasonedly resisting your cheers for patriotic enthusiasm.”
                        Argument designed for young ladies. Firstly, before entering the departmental school of the Ministry of Defense, you had to pass the VVK (to identify health problems), after enrollment, you had to take the military oath, i.e. join the ranks of the armed forces as a cadet. Commissioning you "for health reasons", sorry, absurd, did your legs get torn off (a chronic disease suddenly "showed up" - after VVK ("draconian" this military medical commission, they will feel it to the "livers" and turn it inside out, if anyone did not know ) and annual medical examinations)? Maybe (if this university was not in reality the Higher School of Economics - for training idlers-experts in all areas of life) there are only two options for your expulsion in reality - committing a gross disciplinary offense, or chronic poor progress. Worthy grounds for a "reasoned" confrontation.
                      3. +1
                        April 16 2022 13: 09
                        You write nonsense.
                        You can graduate from college and (by pull or for special merits) get a military specialist at a factory, go to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the KGB.
                        And in terms of health - meningitis, manifested / acquired problems with the heart, gastrointestinal tract.
                        This is so, offhand, examples from the personal life and experience of my fellow students. There were 160 of us, a little more than 80 graduated. God forbid, if half of the graduates went to the troops.
                      4. Aag
                        +3
                        April 16 2022 20: 09
                        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
                        You write nonsense.
                        You can graduate from college and (by pull or for special merits) get a military specialist at a factory, go to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the KGB.
                        And in terms of health - meningitis, manifested / acquired problems with the heart, gastrointestinal tract.
                        This is so, offhand, examples from the personal life and experience of my fellow students. There were 160 of us, a little more than 80 graduated. God forbid, if half of the graduates went to the troops.

                        ... Ahem ... I don’t argue with the first part of your comment - anything can happen. Although, in this case, a number of options, to put it mildly, are dishonorable. At least ... Agree.
                        I don't get personal!
                        On the second part ... Can the Country recognize its "heroes"? Well, in a sense - which of the universities is so generous with budgetary funds, so popular among thieves, ruining the health of the mobile resource, whose graduates are so in demand in non-core departments?
                        I repeat - anything can happen, but the numbers !!! To understand the situation, I would like to know such lawlessness for a year.
                        Are we talking about patriotism?
                        hi
                      5. 0
                        April 16 2022 21: 45
                        Easy. KVTIU. Kiev Higher Tank Engineering School. Years of study 1991-1996. Recruitment began even under the Union, then the collapse. Those who wanted to were transferred to other universities, but even those who remained for the Armed Forces of Ukraine were in abundance. Therefore, they were expelled for both discipline and health.
                        The university was "fashionable" in Kyiv. Mommy's and daddy's sons were enough. They directly stated that immediately after receiving a diploma, their parents would take them to their departments (KGB, Ministry of Internal Affairs). And we "mortals" were cut off as I indicated above. Moreover, in the 90s, food became worse and enough cadets got gastritis / ulcers.
                      6. Aag
                        +2
                        April 16 2022 22: 05
                        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
                        Easy. KVTIU. Kiev Higher Tank Engineering School. Years of study 1991-1996. Recruitment began even under the Union, then the collapse. Those who wanted to were transferred to other universities, but even those who remained for the Armed Forces of Ukraine were in abundance. Therefore, they were expelled for both discipline and health.
                        The university was "fashionable" in Kyiv. Mommy's and daddy's sons were enough. They directly stated that immediately after receiving a diploma, their parents would take them to their departments (KGB, Ministry of Internal Affairs). And we "mortals" were cut off as I indicated above. Moreover, in the 90s, food became worse and enough cadets got gastritis / ulcers.

                        Thanks for the answer. It was not worth wasting so much time, the first (third and fourth) sentences would be enough. They explain, if not everything, then a lot - all the questions that were of interest. hi
                        I remembered - you already mentioned your VUZ, ... a long time ago. hi
                      7. -1
                        April 17 2022 11: 28
                        In the light of your "However, this does not prevent me from reasonably opposing your cheers to patriotic enthusiasm," this is not stupidity. Actually, with your comments, in the course of the conversation, this was confirmed by the quality of education of your "alma mater", as a "forge of personnel" ... of the appropriate profile and level of training.
                      8. 0
                        April 20 2022 20: 53
                        You are linking to a resource that, by definition, cannot be considered a worthy source.
                        What do you expect from them? They have such a job.
                      9. 0
                        April 20 2022 20: 57
                        Argue, please, why the resource cannot be a worthy source?
                        Your statement sounds too presumptuous. You know how in a dispute - to immediately declare - this is a fact!
                        The resource has a photo / video fixation.
                        What could be more? Our MO, even the death of "Saratov" did not recognize - consider it more truthful?
      4. -1
        April 16 2022 16: 46
        You need to go forward, you can’t go back ... Only now you need to start fighting for real, and not with curtseys towards the fascist Banderaites .... There is no need to play nobility with them ...
    2. +8
      April 15 2022 22: 25
      Everything that the Russian army could have already shown. Such results, to put it mildly, faintly resemble the "second army of the world")
      1. -3
        April 16 2022 01: 01
        What are the results? The states in Iraq spent a month and a half fooling around. With etgm in the territory where all the settlements are near water bodies. However, no one helped him. We are working on the territory of more than 600 thousand km. Despite the fact that 404 cram everything. From intelligence to people. Why don't you water the first army of the world? Which, under multiple better conditions, took so long to transport then?)
      2. Aag
        +2
        April 16 2022 20: 26
        Quote from jngus
        Everything that the Russian army could have already shown. Such results, to put it mildly, faintly resemble the "second army of the world")

        Do you think everything?
        Have you seen other "selection matches"?
        It's also far from clear...
        I even find it difficult to draw a "championship standings" - "we play" with everyone at once, or in turn ... (((
        Do you want the final?
        I'm afraid, unlike sports, it may not turn out to be a draw - everyone will lose. Even those who did not qualify for the World Cup ...
        You have to become strong (in every sense) in order for your team to want to play. It is necessary to correct the rules of the game, standardize refereeing, make doping control objective...
        Sorry for the vagueness, I hope I made it clear. hi
  6. 0
    April 15 2022 18: 39
    And did our doctors help these am from the corona? Bring back the year 20 to fix everything
  7. +2
    April 15 2022 20: 02
    When will access for weapons from Europe to Ukraine be blocked? So the SBZ can last until the second coming, how many of our boys will fall, Mother Russia is certainly a big country, but we need to take care of the boys of our Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, after all, they are not robots against the whole of Europe without rest cut! !!
  8. +10
    April 15 2022 21: 11
    The appearance of MILAN products in Ukraine should not be ignored. Such anti-tank systems, as well as other imported products, can pose a danger to our equipment. At the same time, the risks associated with them should not be overestimated. The use of relevant tactics and methods will dramatically reduce the degree of such a threat.

    MILAN is quite a deadly weapon. Bearing in mind that the degree of saturation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with anti-tank weapons is off scale, it is better to overestimate the threat than underestimate ... Because the second is paid with blood ...


    There are also disadvantages. First of all, these are the limited flight characteristics of the rocket. Flight speed does not exceed 200 m/s...

    The speed of the rocket is limited due to the need to "untwist" the optoelectronic control cable. At the same time, the system is very resistant to interference. The rocket flies steadily, control is not lost even with strong wind or rain. Well-camouflaged calculation, capable of burning almost all types of equipment used by the Russian Federation in Ukraine. The author also missed mentioning the high quality of the complex, which allows it to work accurately, smoothly and efficiently.
  9. -6
    April 15 2022 22: 05
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Uncle Kostya, have you visited the oryx website? There, in the photo / video materials, darkness! I don’t know how Konashenkov has the strength to tell daily reports bravura to the camera.

    Be sure to visit these dumps. Read, spit, laugh and swear. At the same time, find traces of their donkeys, who escaped to grab the "forbidden". Here are the traces of one found, on the side of the illegible brand of the nickname "In ... red ... x"
  10. +6
    April 15 2022 22: 30
    Judging by this conflict, it is necessary to massively install Arena-M and develop even more improved active defense systems. Samples for tests will now be enough, with a variety of characteristics.
  11. +2
    April 16 2022 03: 07
    That we do not destroy equipment and weapons in the process of transportation through the territory of Ukraine. These weapons and equipment are delivered to the active units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Why is this so? I can't understand our logic of actions. The railway is functioning, even to Kharkov. Equipment drives along the routes in the western and central and eastern parts of Ukraine in the rear. The padded ones are driven to repair plants. Stocked saturate parts. Television and radio operates throughout Ukraine. Fully functioning Electricity and heat supply. How the fact of the functioning of the military and economic infrastructure of Ukraine helps our Armed Forces. Well, they began to selectively knock out refineries and fuel storage bases. But other ???
    1. +6
      April 16 2022 07: 20
      Seeds .... "We" gouged our huge country in peacetime in 1991, "we" shot our parliament from tanks in 1993. "We" brought more than one trillion dollars of our funds to the West in 30 years ....
      And we, without quotes, still have NOT figured out where this is all going .... yes - sir ... tight ....
  12. -4
    April 16 2022 10: 26
    Yeah .... I read the comments here and realized .... that if there are such people in Russia, then it’s impossible to fight for a common cause with them, but why fight .... giving birth to children and living nearby is dangerous ..... will sell with giblets.
  13. IVZ
    +1
    April 16 2022 11: 44
    Any weapon can kill. To neutralize it, one has to spend manpower, ammunition, i. money and waste time. And time is the cost of human resources, ammunition, etc. And our partners are well aware of this. And if they do so, it means they are confident either in victory or in impunity. And the last is vile, and above all because our people, not the electorate, but the people are already tired of this impotent reality.
    1. Aag
      0
      April 16 2022 20: 54
      Quote: IVZ
      Any weapon can kill. To neutralize it, one has to spend manpower, ammunition, i. money and waste time. And time is the cost of human resources, ammunition, etc. And our partners are well aware of this. And if they do so, it means they are confident either in victory or in impunity. And the last is vile, and above all because our people, not the electorate, but the people are already tired of this impotent reality.

      ... Exactly - in impunity.
      "...the people are already getting tired of this powerless reality..."
      There is such a thing. (((But. Some do not realize, others cannot, and some do not want to do this. About those who understand, but, apart from the people, the Country, one must speak separately. Clean! Without fanaticism.
      And you should not fall into despondency. Premature. Either the Country, the World will become cleaner, or ... You know the quote below ... Experience tells us not to trust politicians, but the situation seems to be significant.
      I don’t even know - to whom I wrote more - to you, or I insisted on myself ... (?) drinks
  14. 0
    April 16 2022 14: 14
    Quote: pytar
    The appearance of MILAN products in Ukraine should not be ignored. Such anti-tank systems, as well as other imported products, can pose a danger to our equipment. At the same time, the risks associated with them should not be overestimated. The use of relevant tactics and methods will dramatically reduce the degree of such a threat.

    MILAN is quite a deadly weapon. Bearing in mind that the degree of saturation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with anti-tank weapons is off scale, it is better to overestimate the threat than underestimate ... Because the second is paid with blood ...


    There are also disadvantages. First of all, these are the limited flight characteristics of the rocket. Flight speed does not exceed 200 m/s...

    The speed of the rocket is limited due to the need to "untwist" the optoelectronic control cable. At the same time, the system is very resistant to interference. The rocket flies steadily, control is not lost even with strong wind or rain. Well-camouflaged calculation, capable of burning almost all types of equipment used by the Russian Federation in Ukraine. The author also missed mentioning the high quality of the complex, which allows it to work accurately, smoothly and efficiently.

    You can’t sneak up on the rear, shoot in both directions)))
  15. -1
    April 16 2022 18: 07
    Yes, with such compatriots that they graze on this forum and there is no need for enemies ...... immediately run to hand over shouting "everything is gone" and "no war" ..... fie on you
    1. IVZ
      +1
      April 17 2022 06: 46
      The purpose of such forums, among other things, is to express public opinion or attitudes towards certain events or courses of action. This is a way to express an urgent request to pay the attention of "who is necessary" to whom or what is not necessary.
      1. 0
        April 17 2022 10: 32
        The goal is one - the usual verbiage! "Snitched" the comment and went to dinner or something ....... there are a lot of opinions, but there are only fewer and fewer specialists in the country .... like in a cartoon ..... "let's grunt, spit and glue it securely with tape ".
  16. 0
    29 June 2022 09: 32
    Horse racket.

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