Military Review

"It is necessary to ensure that in the coming war with Russia there was no" Young Guard "

78
"It is necessary to ensure that in the coming war with Russia there was no" Young Guard "

And this, alas, is real - the “Young Guard” 70 anniversary is celebrated only in Krasnodon

The Ukrainian city of Krasnodon celebrates the 70 anniversary of the “Young Guard” feat. It is believed that the underground organization of local youth finally took shape around the days of September 1942. Like it or not, now it is difficult to judge: to keep an accurate chronicle under occupation would be the height of negligence. And it’s not particularly important, after all, whether it was 28 or 30 September 1942 of the year. The main thing is that 70 years ago, an underground organization of local youth really arose in Krasnodon. And there appeared ABSOLUTELY SPIRITUALLY, without any “leading and guiding role of the party”! Young boys and girls, the eldest of whom was 19, and the youngest of them were 14 years, vowed:

“I, joining the ranks of the“ Young Guard ”, in the face of my friends arms, in the face of my dear, long-suffering land, in the face of all the people, I solemnly swear: to perform without any obedience any task given to me by an older comrade; to keep in the deepest secret all that concerns my work in the “Young Guard”!

I swear to avenge mercilessly for burned, devastated cities and villages, for the blood of our people, for the martyrdom of thirty hero miners. And if this life requires my life, I will give it without a moment's hesitation.

If I break this sacred oath under torture or because of cowardice, then let my name, my family will be forever cursed, and the harsh hand of my comrades will punish me.

Blood for blood! Death for death! ”

This oath of allegiance to the Motherland, later wrote the author of the novel Young Guard, Alexander Fadeyev, young Krasnodontsy “gave 1942 of the year, standing in front of each other in a small horny, when a piercing autumn wind howled over the enslaved and devastated land of Donbass. A small town lay hidden in the darkness, fascists stood in the miner's houses, some corrupt skins-policemen and shoulder masters from the Gestapo on this dark night searched the apartments of citizens and committed atrocities in their dungeons. The oldest of those who took the oath was nineteen years old, and the main organizer and inspirer Oleg Koshevoy was sixteen ”.

And, to the credit of the Young Guard, almost all of them fulfilled the oath: they could not be broken even by the inhuman torture with which they were subjected by the German occupiers after their arrest. 15, 16 and 31 January 1943, the invaders threw a man into the hole of the local 71 mine - partly alive, and partly already shot. A few days later, Oleg Koshevoy, Lyubov Shevtsova, Semyon Ostapenko, Dmitry Ogurtsov, Viktor Subbotin were shot in the city of Rovenki, shot. Four more of the Young Guard were executed in other areas. All of them before death were subjected to inhuman torture and torture. Before the liberation of Krasnodon by the Red Army, which took place on February 14, the Young Guards did not live only a few days ...

What did the Young Guard have managed to do in such a short period of the organization's existence? We read again A.Fadeeva:

“And these young people who did not know the old system and, naturally, did not go through the underground experience, for several months disrupt all the activities of the fascist enslavers and inspire the population of Krasnodon and the surrounding villages - Izvarin, Pervomayki, Semeykina, where branches of the organization are created to resist the enemy. The organization grows to seventy people, then it numbers already over one hundred - the children of miners, peasants and employees.

"Young Guard" in hundreds and thousands distributes leaflets - in the bazaars, in the cinema, in the club. Leaflets are found on the police building, even in the pockets of the police. "Young Guard" installs four radios and informs the population daily about the information of the Information Bureau.

Under the conditions of the underground, new members join the ranks of the Komsomol, temporary certificates are issued, membership fees are accepted. As the Soviet troops approached, an armed uprising was being prepared and weapons were being extracted in a variety of ways.

At the same time, strike groups carry out sabotage and terrorist acts.

On the night from 7 to 8 in November, Ivan Turkenich’s group hung two policemen. On the chest of the hanged men left posters: "Such a fate awaits every venal dog."

November 9 Anatoly Popov's group on the road Gundorovka - Gerasimovka destroys a passenger car with three top Hitlerite officers.

On November 15, Viktor Petrov’s group frees 75 fighters and commanders of the Red Army from the concentration camp in the Volchansk farm.

In early December, the Moshkov group on the Krasnodon-Sverdlovsk road burns three cars with gasoline.

A few days after this operation, a group of Tyulenin commits on the Krasnodon-Rovenka road an armed attack on the guards, who were driving 500 heads of livestock taken from residents. Destroys the guard, cattle accelerates the steppe.

The members of the “Young Guard”, who were settled on the instructions of the headquarters in the occupying institutions and at the enterprises, with their skillful maneuvers hinder their work. Sergey Levashov, working as a driver in the garage, disables three cars one after the other. Yury Vyzenovsky makes some accidents at the mine.

On the night from 5 to December 6, the brave troop of young Guardians - Lyuba Shevtsova, Sergey Tyulenin and Viktor Luk'yanchenko - perform a brilliant arson operation of the labor exchange. By destroying the labor exchange with all the documents, the Young Guard saved several thousand Soviet people from being hijacked in Nazi Germany.

On the night of 6 on 7 in November, members of the organization hang red flags on the buildings of the school, the former regional consumer union, the hospital and on the highest tree of the city park. “When I saw a flag at a school,” says M.A. Litvinova - involuntary joy, pride seized me. She woke up the children and quickly ran across the road to Mukhina. I found her standing in her underwear on the window sill, tears creeping down her thin cheeks. She said: “Marya Alekseevna, because this was done for us Soviet people. We are remembered, we are not forgotten by us. ”

The organization was disclosed by the police because it involved too many young people in its ranks, among whom were less resilient people. But during the terrible tortures to which the members of the “Young Guard” were subjected to brutalized enemies, the moral character of the young patriots, the image of such spiritual beauty, was revealed with unprecedented force that it will inspire many more and many generations. ”

It is now accepted to cast doubt on the version of events related to the "Young Guard", which was put forward by Alexander Fadeev. Even his novel Young Guard, in which generations of Soviet people were brought up, has been removed from the school curriculum because of "bias."

Indeed, a subsequent study by researchers of documents related to the activities of the Young Guard revealed that in some ways the writer was wrong. But in the first place, he did not pretend that the novel “Young Guard” is fully documented. This is a work of literature, the writer has noted more than once, though it is based mainly on facts. But there is also an inherent artistic fiction in it, images of characters that only generalize real historical prototypes, but not their exact copy.

It was all in vain: the immortal feat of the Young Guard in its, so to speak, original form began to undergo erosion immediately after the end of the war. At first it was only a slight adjustment of the primary version, designed to introduce the "leading and guiding role" of the communist party into the fabric of events. Then (and in many ways, by the way, it was justified) - an adjustment regarding the role of individual Young Guard, which, after a more thorough examination of documents and eyewitness accounts, allowed many of the names to be rehabilitated.

For example, what Valeria Bortz told in one of the interviews is one of those few Young Guards who were lucky enough to avoid arrest:

“11 May 1956, shortly after the 9 holiday of May, us, five of the then young Guardians alive, as well as A.A. Fadeev invited N.S. Khrushchev. There he started a conversation about ... forgiveness (beyond the prescription of years) of the members of the “Young Guard” headquarters of Y. Tretyakevich who had betrayed under torture. It turns out that he was the son of a friend, NS Khrushchev, countryman from with. Kalinovka, Kursk region, where N.S. Khrushchev. Like, none of us are guaranteed to endure the torture. Four of us spoke (from surprise, apparently) somehow vaguely. I said that, of course, I cannot guarantee that I would endure the torture. But ... we gave an oath in which it was said that if one of us even commanded his comrades under torture, then “let him curse him for the rest of his life,” and so on. Khrushchev did not like it. He became ardently incoherent to say something. We were silent. Suddenly, A.A. Fadeev and angrily throws in the face of Khrushchev, that he is a former Trotskyite and something else. Khrushchev reddened terribly. Fadeev turned white. A very ugly scene happened ... I haven’t told about this yet ... And I don’t know if I should say ... But that meeting was interrupted. “Until better times,” as Khrushchev said.

The “best times” for a new meeting did not come: May 13 (i.e., two days later) A. Fadeev shot himself.

Tretyakevich was later, however, not only rehabilitated (there was clear evidence of his innocence), but even posthumously awarded the order, so that this kind of “revision” of the original version with respect to individual members of the organization was more than justified. And we needed it first of all to establish the TRUTH. But at the same time, many “revisionists”, building new heroes on a pedestal, for some reason tried to throw out from there other “former” undoubted heroes of the “Young Guard”. They tried to do this, in particular, even with respect to Oleg Koshevoy.

Here is what Anatoly Nikitenko, director of the Krasnodon museum of the Young Guard, wrote about attacks on this chief, according to Fadeev, leader of the Young Guards (and the documents related to the organization’s activities are familiar to him):

“Letters to the museum come to us. Their authors demand to tell the whole truth about ... Oleg Koshevoy. They ask to confirm that Koshevoy really died, and, moreover, that he was not a traitor to the Motherland and a traitor to the “Young Guard” (!).

Ridiculous rumors are actively spread by various Western radio voices who, through the mouth of renegades, have repeatedly advised us to reconsider our views on the Young Guard and its legendary commissar.

One could not pay attention to such “advice”. Moreover, the last days and hours of life of Oleg and his comrades were already told many times in undeniable language of documents. But, as we see, there are people who listen to the evil whisper from the gate. So, we must again and again return to this topic.

In the archives of our museum are stored investigative documents telling about further events. Today they are published for the first time.

From the interrogation report of the arrested Geist from November 4 1946 of the year:

“Question: It was established that during the occupation of Voroshilovgrad region by German troops you served as a translator for the German gendarmerie in Rovenky. Do you confirm this?

Answer: I confirm. From August 1942 of the year to the day of the expulsion of the German troops from the city of Rovenky, Voroshilovgrad region, I served as a translator in the district gendarme department.

Question: When and under what circumstances was Kosheva arrested?

Answer: Koshevoy was detained on the last days of January 1943 near the railway station Karpushino six or seven kilometers from the city of Rovenka and taken to the police, from where he was transferred to the gendarmerie. After a short investigation, he was shot.

Question: Did you take part in his execution?

Answer: Yes, I was a member of the execution of a group of partisans, including Koshevoi. ”

From the interrogation report of Orlov, the head of the Rovenky police, dated 3 December 1946:

“Question: Did you take part in the massacre of Koshev?

Answer: Oleg Koshevoy was arrested at the end of January 1943 by the German commander and the railway police at the junction, seven kilometers from Rovenki, and brought to me by the police.

When they were detained, a revolver was seized from Koshevoy, and when they were searched again in the Roven'kov police, the seal of the Komsomol organization, as well as two blank forms (temporary Komsomol certificates).

Question: When and where was Kosheva shot?

Answer: Koshevoy was shot in the last days of January 1943, in a grove on the outskirts of Rovenky. The execution was led by Phrome and gendarmes Drewitz, Peach, Golender and several policemen took part in the shooting. ”

From the interrogation report of the Nazi criminal Schultz Jacob from 11-12 in November 1947:

“Question: You are shown a photograph of the head of the underground Young Komsomol organization“ Young Guard ”, Oleg Koshevoy. Do you know this person?

Answer: Yes, he is familiar to me. Koshevoy was shot at the end of January 1943 in the Rovenkovsky forest among the nine Soviet people I mentioned above. He was shot by Drewitz. ”

From the interrogation of the Nazi criminal Drewitz Otto from November 8 1947 of the year:

“Question: You are shown a photograph of the head of the illegal Young Komsomol organization Young Guard, Oleg Koshevoy, operating in Krasnodon. Is this the young man you shot?

Answer: Yes, this is the same young man. I shot Koshevoy in a city park in Rovenki.

Question: Tell me, under what circumstances did you shoot Oleg Koshevoy?

Answer: At the end of January 1943, I received an order from the deputy commander of the Frome gendarme unit to prepare for the execution of arrested Soviet citizens. In the courtyard, I saw police officers who were guarding nine of those arrested, among whom was Oleg Koshevoy, identified by me. When Schulz and a few gendarmes approached us, we led, by order of Throme, those sentenced to death to the place of execution in the city park in Rovenky. We placed the prisoners on the edge of a large hole dug in advance in the park and shot them by order of Frome. Then I noticed that Koshevoy was still alive and was only wounded. I came closer to him and shot him right in the head. When I shot Koshevoy, I returned with the other gendarmes who participated in the execution, back to the barracks. Several policemen were sent to the place of execution in order to bury the corpses. ”

... The Eternal Flame is burning at the mass graves, which sadly dotted the roads of the past war. Millions of Soviet people come to bow to these graves. Sacred are the graves, the memory of the fallen heroes is sacred. ”

Well, what kind of revision of the history of the “Young Guard” did the Ukrainian “self-gunners” come to ... Recently, for example, the version was launched into the information space that the “Young Guard” was actually created not by Komsomol members, but ... by Ukrainian nationalists from the OUN UPA! This is what revision the “researchers” (and their inspirers) of the immortal exploit of the Young Guards are now reaching!

“We need to ensure that in the coming war with Russia there is no“ Young Guard ”, there is no Kosmodemyanskoy and Matrosov”. This quote was read in the American magazine "Kohlers" Alexander Golenkov - one of the journalists who studied the history of the Young Guard. And it seems, unfortunately, that our enemies have already achieved a lot in this direction.

Something is not heard at all these days, neither from the screens of our TV, nor from the pages of the central media, that these days 70 is being celebrated for the unprecedented feat of the Young Guards. 70's anniversary is truly celebrated these days only in Krasnodon itself, where hundreds of guests from Russia, Belarus and Transnistria arrived. And in Russia itself? A message flashed that some events would take place in Kurgan, and that was all. Our historical memory is short! Togo and look, forget the heroes of the "Young Guard" at all. And God forbid us to live to see the day when the younger generation answers the question “What is Young Guard?”: “Oh, we know: this is the youth organization of United Russia ...”
Author:
Originator:
http://www.km.ru
78 comments
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  1. bubla5
    bubla5 2 October 2012 08: 52
    +4
    Someone wants to rewrite history in their own way, in black, and at this stage in my opinion, we all help in this with our silence, and sometimes consent.
    1. Click-Klyak
      Click-Klyak 2 October 2012 14: 55
      -17
      The gendarmes and police officers who were involved in Case No. 20056, only three years after the Krasnodon events, recalled the “Young Guard” with difficulty. They could not say how many people were in it and what she really did. At first, they did not even understand why, of everything that they managed to do for the war, the investigation is interested in this particular short episode with teenagers ...
      http://www.sovsekretno.ru/magazines/article/311
      1. SHILO
        SHILO 2 October 2012 15: 09
        +5
        Click-Klyak
        Laugh off the worm from the comments.
        Do not disgrace your ancestors.
        1. Click-Klyak
          Click-Klyak 2 October 2012 16: 41
          -5
          Son, do you seriously think that I can be hurt by these demotivators or minuses?
          Can you really object? Not? I thought so. Among your company, only Brother Sarych is somehow able to discuss. The rest can only be minus.
          1. SHILO
            SHILO 2 October 2012 17: 31
            0
            In fact, dad already answered your life.
            1. Evrepid
              Evrepid 2 October 2012 20: 06
              +1
              And of course, you need to educate children on examples, and good examples, a wormhole always leads to the fact that "Thomas is not a believer" is found and the whole building collapses.
          2. Evrepid
            Evrepid 2 October 2012 19: 29
            0
            Before you put a minus, think over my words!

            The question must be posed differently: Can the respected SHILO explain why the military officer obeyed the orders of the student?
            The answer will seem very strange ....
            And why it was a combat officer that was not caught and shot like all the rest of the Young Guard.
            I asked this question after I visited the Krasnodon and the rovings, on the steps of the monument and next to the mine, where they were dumped.
          3. MI-AS-72
            MI-AS-72 2 October 2012 20: 38
            0
            Uncle with whom to discuss and what. If with you, then your problems in the area of ​​the mental hospital live. You need a doctor for you and a topic for debate.
      2. Zynaps
        Zynaps 2 October 2012 23: 27
        0
        you would still refer to the fence. "top secret" is another source. in this edition, almost the first in Perestroika, the "Young Guard" began to defame. in general, there were wonderful memories that, allegedly, Oleg Koshevoy was mentally ill and himself came to the police to surrender; good policemen drove him out, but he did not lag behind.

        wonderful, fragrant spring!
      3. Pushkar
        Pushkar 3 October 2012 00: 01
        0
        Mr. Eric Schur, in pursuit of a sensation, fully confirms the facts and, on the basis of them, concludes that the "Young Guard" did not exist. They say that the policemen do not remember such an organization, but they remember the "gray-haired boy" and everyone else. So what? "Top secret" is actually a tabloid newspaper, some titles on the title page of which are: "Kutuzov in a harem", "Gogol's Skull under the Channel". I wonder what year the article is for? PS Mr. Eric Schur does not appear in the list of authors of this publication, it seems that the libeller is hiding under a pseudonym.
    2. Rink
      Rink 2 October 2012 15: 29
      +3
      You can recall the words of the Tatar-Mongolian temnik Mamai, who told how to destroy neighboring states.
      He gave advice to his associates:
      - "Divide the people into friends and foes, scold the old people and glorify the youth, and then the rabble of the past.
      And then this state will look like an oak eaten by worms. "
      1. Fox 070
        Fox 070 2 October 2012 18: 54
        +3
        Quote: Skating rink
        - "Divide the people into friends and foes, scold the old people and glorify the youth, and then the rabble of the past.

        Like that...
    3. starshina78
      starshina78 2 October 2012 20: 13
      +3
      The country has no time for heroes of the past. The state itself, and therefore the authorities, does everything to ensure that children are brought up not by the example of "Young Guard" or Matrosov, but by the example of Abramovich or the American way of life. How many dates dedicated to heroes, battles or other important events pass imperceptibly (for example: the centenary of S.G. Gorshkov - the creator of the ocean fleet), but the press and TV widely covered the next anniversary of Yeltsin, which deserves censure, and not monuments and other perpetuation measures. Turn on TV, radio and what you will see and hear on the TV box are endless American moronic films, programs such as talk shows on which bones are washed to someone, "Secular News" about the life of a bohemian, horror stories such as "Petrovka 38" and dr. ... But all were outdone by the NTV channel. Endless series about drunken cops who manage to catch criminals out of a hangover and fight corruption in their ranks, all sorts of programs in which all the gossip about who divorced, who got along with whom, etc. is discussed. , but the most - the most - are custom-made documentary films about the opposition or people in which the Presidential Administration ordered "Fas!" One channel on our TV tries not to forget about the exploits and heroes - this is "Zvezda". Praise him and many thanks!
  2. Taratut
    Taratut 2 October 2012 08: 53
    -12
    “We need to ensure that in the coming war with Russia there is no“ Young Guard ”, there is no Kosmodemyanskoy and Matrosov”. This quote was read in the American magazine "Kohlers" Alexander Golenkov - one of the journalists who studied the history of the Young Guard. And it seems, unfortunately, that our enemies have already achieved a lot in this direction.

    Well this is nonsense. Subtracted. In some magazine there - which exists at all. And this comes almost like an official point of view of the US government.
    And there and then a conclusion is made about hostility and preparation for the "coming war."
    Something similar happens with women.
    A controversial thought comes to her mind. And she immediately begins to consider this an undeniable truth. And not only that, it immediately starts acting on the basis that it is the truth. Then you ask her - what have you done? But she claps her eyes and cannot explain herself.
    1. Zynaps
      Zynaps 2 October 2012 23: 34
      0
      Quote: Taratut
      And this comes almost like an official point of view of the US government.


      how much new is ahead of you. the former conspector Druzhnikov lectured on Soviet history in various official institutions of the United States, including the military academy at West Point, and read such that even the very official philosopher Fukuyama stupidly quibbled Druzhnikov's nonsense about Pavlik Morozov.

      so Dr. Goebbels' principle is fully valid: "Lie, lie more - something will be remembered."
  3. Aeneas
    Aeneas 2 October 2012 09: 06
    +2
    just the other day I got acquainted with the version of Ukrainian nationalists, more precisely Eugene Stakhiv, according to the book of Fadeev the traitor Stakhovich. Grandfather isho alive! ... True tokmo in Ukrainian http://www.istpravda.com.ua
  4. Taratut
    Taratut 2 October 2012 09: 11
    -14
    Fadeev several times rewrote the book. That role of the party did not adequately reflect, then something else.
    So you shouldn't look for the truth about those events in the book. This is an ideological, propaganda craft. A friend of mine once asked the mother of Sergei Tyulenin what happened there. "The lads misbehaved," she replied.
    1. darkman70
      darkman70 2 October 2012 10: 10
      +10
      Well of course .... We believe you. Of course they laughed. And the Kosmedemyanskaya hooligan and the Sailors, too. What else was there to do? It was a good time for hooliganism with occupants.
      Recently I talked with a grandmother from Germany, so she told me that Hitler is actually alive and even goes under the nickname Taratut on the Internet and writes comments. I don’t know whether to believe her or not?)
      1. Taratut
        Taratut 2 October 2012 11: 01
        -14
        Sailors have nothing to do with it, he is a soldier.
        Cosmodemyan torch bearer. Set fire to houses in the villages. She was caught by the locals. They hardly even realized that she was not just a crazy criminal. Who could believe that such was the order of Stalin? The same Starikov wrote that it was a stupid order that pushed the population into policemen. People simply defended their homes, but turned out to be enemies of the Soviet regime.
        1. Che
          Che 2 October 2012 11: 02
          +7
          Taratut,
          Our youth without any role of the party hollowed the Nazis. Eternal memory to them. That's who we need to talk about in history, so that today's youth does not sell for Pepsi Amers.
          1. Click-Klyak
            Click-Klyak 2 October 2012 12: 43
            -13
            Quote: Che
            Our youth without any role of the party hollowed the Nazis. Eternal memory to them

            And who is against?
            The Germans came to our land and thus put themselves outlawed.
            Fighting them is the right and duty of any Soviet person.
            Just like the Finns had every right to kill the Soviet aggressors.

            Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
            It turns out that the Nazis fought out of hooligan motives. They also went into the woods just to hooligan

            Firstly, these are the words of Tyulenin’s mother.
            Secondly, they went into the forests for various reasons.
            I know a lot about partisans, including negative material.
            1. mark021105
              mark021105 2 October 2012 13: 52
              +4
              Did you yourself hear these words from his mother? "One woman said" In the 90s, some bastard generally denied the existence of the Young Guard "on the basis of new archival materials," allegedly classified by the CPSU. They wanted to blacken everything, TRAITORS !!!
              And on the example of Oleg Koshevoy, Ulyana Gromova, Sergey Tyulenin and many, many other heroes, we were educated as young people. And you D_E_RMOKRATAM just to defame everything!
              1. Click-Klyak
                Click-Klyak 2 October 2012 14: 06
                -4
                What's the problem? And you can educate further.
                You bring up on an ideal image, but not on a real person.
                Who denigrates what?
                What really happened there, who betrayed there (and betrayed at all) - you and I are not in the know. And Pastor Schlag (or his bright image) is always at our service, you can educate.
            2. Gur
              Gur 2 October 2012 14: 23
              +2
              "I often watch TV and believe me, I know our youth, we have wonderful youth" - speech of Angessa Ivanovna, film "Courier"
              I know a lot about partisans, including negative material. Click-Klyak's speech is very similar. You would have to go to the forest in those years. Maybe we would talk about you and your negativity now.
            3. Dobrokhod Sergey
              Dobrokhod Sergey 2 October 2012 15: 22
              +3
              Quote: Click-Gag
              I know a lot about partisans, including negative material.

              This is just about those who just went into the woods to hooliganism. They were then called "forest brothers" or "fighters" of the OUN-UPA.
            4. Zynaps
              Zynaps 2 October 2012 23: 42
              0
              Quote: Click-Gag
              I know a lot about partisans, including negative material.


              read another toilet paper?
              1. Click-Klyak
                Click-Klyak 3 October 2012 12: 45
                0
                Quote: Zynaps
                read another toilet paper?

                No, why.
                On June 20, 1943, Commander Begma, chief of staff of the partisan movement in the Rivne region, wrote in his memo addressed to Malenkov and Khrushchev:

                "... In the Rivne region, at the beginning of World War II, the intelligence department left small special groups with radios for purely reconnaissance purposes. With the development of the partisan movement in Ukraine, these groups began to grow rapidly at the expense of the local population ... for example, Colonel Brinsky -" Uncle Petya " - grew up to 300 people, Captain Kaplun - up to 150-400 people, Major Medvedev - up to 600 people ... All people in these groups guard the headquarters, are engaged in the preparation of food, and they have not done a single one in more than a year ... People are decomposing, there are a lot of cases of unauthorized shootings of innocent people, massive drinking, hooliganism, etc. "
                1. Zynaps
                  Zynaps 3 October 2012 15: 58
                  0
                  Well? very good confirmation that general leadership from above over the "elementalists" was necessary. especially on the part of the VKPb. otherwise all the hairs on his ass were pulled out from passion. and then you always have a cracking pattern - then "the people themselves with a mustache", and then "the role of the party is exaggerated."
                2. nickname 1 and 2
                  nickname 1 and 2 5 October 2012 23: 00
                  0
                  Click-Klyak,

                  Dear Click! or gag?
                  Your scribble leads to unpleasant comparisons!
                  As it was a case: one chief came in with a check and got in the moment when the explosion occurred. Nothing special (lamp !!!), but from surprise, the boss started and it was noticeable! And now, such a nasal muzzle, here is the moment when you can recoup, yelled: And you, great cool! (boss - embarrassed) The worker understood - there is an opportunity from the heart - to smear! And off we go - And you probably put in your pants? -Embarrassment!!! - No, let's see! Why are you going to stink like that?
                  The weather was very bad on the street and the chief was waiting for a car that would capture him along the way. The car was delayed. And this nasty type was itchy !!!
                  No, if you have diarrhea then this is impossible to hide! .............
                  I'm not making an analogy! But, my dear, what are you holding on to? Do you remember the price our country paid? If out of a million fighters the nerves of some part of the fighters could not stand and they "became brutal" ......... so what to dig into THIS? So what? Were you in their place? Why judge?
                  It's disgusting, not that they, having done it, have done it! And no one, normal, was offended by them! It is disgusting that you, whining, are satisfied! wassat
                  On another page, the same "hero" vexed = there were a million traitors!
                  My father came back = without the right lung! I listened to the stories of these veterans! There were few those pachyderms who had nothing to do with it! And, nemchura, tried his best to work on the nerves!
                  And there was nothing to cry, in war as in war, everything was different - AND OTHERWISE AND COULD NOT BE! Nobody showed us nobility! We were destroyed in the most perverted way! There was no hint of any knightly etiquette!
                  In fairness, we would destroy the whole German nation at the root, and no one would judge us! He didn’t condemn! SO THAT! = We are the most generous country !!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you, about some little things .....
                  1. Click-Klyak
                    Click-Klyak 5 October 2012 23: 32
                    0
                    Quote: nick 1 and 2
                    It's disgusting, not that they, having done it, have done it! And no one, normal, was offended by them! It is disgusting that you, whining, arrange

                    Here is how? That is, they were shot for nothing? Is this just a whim of Stalin?

                    Quote: nick 1 and 2
                    We were destroyed in the most perverted way! There was no hint of any knightly etiquette!

                    So we are kind of criminals so we consider Germans? And if in response we also begin to destroy civilians, then what are we better at?
                    1. nickname 1 and 2
                      nickname 1 and 2 5 October 2012 23: 54
                      0
                      Click-Klyak,

                      The difference, try to feel! He, the monster, the killer, the executioner, etc. = optional !!!!!! And here, a man broke !!!!!! could not stand the mental anguish, pain !!!
                      the roof has gone down !!!! I did not control myself !!! I didn’t remember myself from a heartbreak !!!!
                      The heat of passion!!!
                      fool
                      Why judge him ???? This is above his physiological capabilities !!! Why shoot ????
          2. Zynaps
            Zynaps 2 October 2012 23: 43
            0
            Quote: Che
            Our youth without any role of the party hollowed the Nazis.


            yeah, and so in it all were Komsomol members. completely without a role.
        2. SHILO
          SHILO 2 October 2012 14: 58
          +10
          Was it clear? hi
        3. Zynaps
          Zynaps 2 October 2012 23: 41
          +2
          You are breaching, the Cosmodemyanskaya was betrayed by a traitor from her own group, and not by any residents. in Petrishchevo, the Germans evicted people from their homes in dugouts and sheds - there was nothing to protect. in Petrishchevo was a large communications center. In addition, Kosmodemyanskaya was prepared under the direction of Sprogis - sabotage. so no she is a torch bearer.

          and since you are bragging about reading Starikov, it means with all severity that the FGM has caught up with you.
          1. Click-Klyak
            Click-Klyak 3 October 2012 12: 48
            0
            Quote: Zynaps
            you are deceiving, the Cosmodemyanskaya passed a traitor from her own group

            How is this even possible theoretically?
            There is a group behind enemy lines to burn at home. Suppose someone was captured. And he gives out to save his life ... but what does it give out? The address? Appearance description?
            1. Zynaps
              Zynaps 3 October 2012 16: 14
              0
              did you decide to turn on the fool? article by the historian Gorinov in your mouth and before enlightenment: http://vivovoco.rsl.ru/VV/JOURNAL/RUHIST/ZOYA.HTM

              also google and you will find the protocol of interrogation of Klubkov, who betrayed Zoya, having been caught when the group left the Germans.
              1. Click-Klyak
                Click-Klyak 4 October 2012 00: 20
                0
                Quote: Zynaps
                did you decide to turn on the fool? article by historian Gorinov in your mouth and before enlightenment


                Read your own source.
                “As it turned out later, Zoya managed to set fire to three houses. However, after that she did not return to the agreed place, but after sitting out the day in the forest, the next night (or, according to one of the eyewitnesses, through the night) again went to the village. the act of a brave partisan underlies the later version that “she went to the village of Petrishchevo without permission, without the permission of the commander.” “Without permission,” she went there only the second time. And she went not “without permission,” but in order to to the end, carry out the order given to the sabotage group - "burn the settlement of Petrishchevo."
                After waiting for it to get dark, Zoya went back to the village. The Germans were on their guard. After the events of the previous night, the headman, two German officers and an interpreter gathered a gathering of local residents, at which they ordered them to guard the houses. Some were given white armbands from guards, including S.A. Sviridov. In his apartment there were 4 officers and an interpreter. Perhaps this is why Zoe headed to his estate. When the partisan began to set fire to the barn with hay, Sviridov noticed her and ran after the Germans. A detachment of soldiers surrounded the barn. Zoe was captured. "
                1. nickname 1 and 2
                  nickname 1 and 2 4 October 2012 11: 22
                  0
                  Quote: Click-Gag
                  и

                  Quote: Click-Gag
                  When the partisan began to set fire to the barn with hay, Sviridov noticed her and ran after the Germans.

                  Sorry - I’ll shake it up: and how is it to set fire to a barn with hay = what does it take half an hour ???? -Fire !!!!! - Sviridov ran - time? - Germans - came running in time ??? Maybe Zoya took a nap there ??? or decided to fry barbecue?

                  Well, is it really not noticeable that this = FALSE ???? Well, it does not fit! fool
                  Quote: Click-Gag
                  A unit of soldiers surrounded the barn.
                  = And where is it from ???? And how much time is needed for him (the unit) to arrive and surround? And does Zoe have boxes of damp matches? But does it strike and strike? LIES!!!!
                  Do not you yourself do not notice?
                  1. Click-Klyak
                    Click-Klyak 4 October 2012 12: 59
                    0
                    Do you think that Zynaps again slipped a rotten spring? Maybe.
                    But he himself claimed that Zoya went for reconnaissance, and his own source says - a torch bearer.
        4. Konrad
          Konrad 3 October 2012 21: 14
          0
          Quote: Taratut
          Cosmodemy Torch

          All right! But who is there to argue with - zombie Stalinists and anti-Semites!
          It's a shame that because of such people our country is considered an "evil empire".
    2. Dobrokhod Sergey
      Dobrokhod Sergey 2 October 2012 11: 17
      +4
      Quote: Taratut
      "The lads misbehaved," she replied.
      It turns out that the Nazis fought out of hooligan motives. They also went into the woods just like a bully. Little rascals, such here!
    3. Aeneas
      Aeneas 2 October 2012 12: 15
      +4
      Quote: Taratut
      Fadeev several times rewrote the book. That role of the party did not adequately reflect, then something else.
      So the truth about those events in the book is not worth looking for. This is an ideological, propaganda craft.
      The tale is a hint in it, a lesson for good fellows ... Fadeev wrote a work of art and could come up with something there, of course, like Simonov, Tvardovsky ... But there was a real fact! Vapshche Fadeev was not a bad writer, he suffered, thumped, but there was also talent. I have no other writers!
      1. Click-Klyak
        Click-Klyak 2 October 2012 14: 34
        -12
        What kind of real fact existed?
        It would be interesting to read the materials of the German investigation.
        Who really did something. And the feeling is that the Germans took one, knocked out a couple of names from it, then they gave another pair of names of friends. The method is well known, it was fully owned by the Gestapo and the NKVD. Here they came up with a loud name. Not a couple of hooligans were caught, but the ORGANIZATION was opened.
        Is it possible?
        And the Germans acted tough. In our city of Stalingrad, children stole canned goods from them - they were shot on the spot. So the cruelty of the massacre does not at all prove the seriousness of intentions.
        Here, by the way, is an interesting article.
        http://www.novdelo.ru/index.php?nav=nnews&viewart=9003
        1. Gur
          Gur 2 October 2012 14: 54
          +1
          So you are a Stalingrad, or you Stalingrad children stole canned food ?? (with your statements, the word "they" should be omitted)
        2. Pushkar
          Pushkar 3 October 2012 00: 14
          0
          Another regional brekhalovka with "super disclosures". Isn't it disgusting to dig in such mud - or are you a masochist, a lover of feces?
        3. de_monSher
          de_monSher 3 October 2012 01: 03
          0
          You know, everything and everyone understands that fiction is fiction, but the truth of life is such, sometimes filthy and squeaks with sand on your teeth, beats tears from your eyes and blood from your nose. And to survive a day, at least one, in extreme conditions means opening your insides, sometimes bestial, to the world. There is no time for heroism, I would live - a clear stump. It is at this moment that the "truth seekers" are trying to put pressure on them. But ... nevertheless, I paid attention to this - as a rule, people with disabilities are looking for the "truth" in history. I talked with many of them and noticed that they really have huge mental, sexual and physical problems. And they have only one way of self-affirmation - "Kosmodemyanskaya is a torchbearer ... tfu on her ... Young Guard is an invention of Faddeev, tfu and on him ..." and so on. etc. etc. The whole problem is that for such "lovers of truth", this is really the only chance to show their significance.

          But in reality, when in the mid-90s, he collided like guys, chuuut younger than me, they were ready to cover me with themselves, while arguing this like this - "Little lieutenant colonel = for two stars with one gap, the bastards called me so =, you will be killed, what should we do then? " This is a Soviet character. And everything else (I mean your reasoning) is nonsense.
    4. Gur
      Gur 2 October 2012 15: 58
      +1
      You mlyn, you can't protect your girls from hooligans, not to mention the "Caucasians" And it's not even worth talking about hooligans in front of the enemy. Do it. This I tell you without any acquaintances. And they will find you not heroically dead, like Kosmodemyanskaya, or Matrosov, but shamefully smelling. For your essence is in statements - and it so happens that the whole person is shit.
    5. Zynaps
      Zynaps 2 October 2012 23: 36
      0
      and again the authoritative opinion of the agency, One Baba Said. familiar bum for a glass of red. expert, you’re pooping on your own head.
  5. vezunchik
    vezunchik 2 October 2012 10: 10
    +2
    there are such youths and now they are being imprisoned, hushed up - and they are afraid! They are scary for power. And in contrast to them create edrossovskie organizations where corruption is formed .. in exchange for good!
    1. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 2 October 2012 10: 55
      +2
      Quote: vezunchik
      And it seems, unfortunately, that much has already been achieved by our enemies in this direction.


      Well, really! LIE, DO NOT TAKE IT!

      All this nonsense! All complaints are erased from memory. All hostility to their villagers where it disappears!
      There is no force that would remake the RUSSIAN people! He stood and will stand adamant, forever and ever!
      And the feat will never be forgotten! And the "dust" "dirt" stuck to it will be washed away and the monument will shine again in the hearts of the people!
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 2 October 2012 13: 54
        0
        You know, not at a rally - there is no need here to slogan slogans without special need!
        I’m afraid that there will not be a new Young Guard if that is not to consider as such the half-wits from the Surkov’s counter-office of the same name who will only trash this name ...
        1. seafarer
          seafarer 23 January 2013 02: 17
          0
          I do not agree.
          There will be new Young Guard! Sure!
          Maybe it will not be so massive, but it will.
          There are a lot of normal young guys now. It’s just that they’re nowhere to be seen behind the surfaced and foul-smelling shit.
          The centuries-old traditions of the people cannot go into the sand.
          What is happening now we have already "passed" - both into the Mongol-Tatar yoke, and during the Troubles.
    2. lelikas
      lelikas 2 October 2012 11: 53
      0
      But there is very little of it, if you imagine, at first glance, an absurd situation - the army is defeated "somewhere on the doorstep", the power is in a certain occupation government, but at the same time the Internet is working, the servers of basic toys and McDonald's - will many young people go to the streets to fight?
      And how many will come to the draft board themselves in case of mobilization?
      I'm afraid everything will be very sad.
      1. strannik595
        strannik595 2 October 2012 14: 05
        +4
        you need to believe in the Russian people, he’s still alive, personally I’ll go to the military enlistment office without waiting for the agenda, not for the sake of a word
        1. lelikas
          lelikas 2 October 2012 16: 51
          0
          Igor, are you 18 years old? This is, if you have not noticed about the "Pepsi generation", and military service, especially the war, is not included in their plans for life.
  6. Baron Wrangell
    Baron Wrangell 2 October 2012 10: 33
    +3
    It is a pity that this feat is forgotten !!!
    And why is this fact not studied at school?
    1. Dobrokhod Sergey
      Dobrokhod Sergey 2 October 2012 11: 11
      +3
      Quote: Baron Wrangel
      It is a pity that this feat is forgotten !!!


      Now in the heroes there are more and more those who went with the Nazis together, and not those who did not let them into Soviet land.
  7. Syrdon
    Syrdon 2 October 2012 10: 45
    +1
    someone with a specialist gave Koshev a chance to survive, injuring him, and the German bastard finished it off. Somehow it seems to me.
  8. baltika-18
    baltika-18 2 October 2012 11: 03
    +6
    In the 90s, all the values ​​on which our generation was brought up were discredited. They didn’t give anything else, except beer, vodka, drugs and the idea that money rules the world, and if you have a lot of them, you can’t give a damn about the rest .. if you were comfortable. A Western system of cultural values ​​has been successfully implemented along with the Western economic and political systems. There are people, including young people, who do not accept the planted, but many accepted without hesitation. I am sure that it will not be very big a period of time and people will reject this system. the system of misanthropy and we will have Oleg Koshevye, and Alexandra Matrosova, and generals Karbyshev.
  9. Dobrokhod Sergey
    Dobrokhod Sergey 2 October 2012 11: 08
    +4
    Words of gratitude to these guys and all those Soviet people who won the terrible war. Thanks you!
  10. sergant89
    sergant89 2 October 2012 11: 08
    +6
    And I remembered the school where our class was named after Oleg Koshevoy, although we lived thousands of kilometers from Krasnodon, it’s not even a matter of distorting the facts and finding out all the details, the matter is patriotism, courage and love for the Motherland of young boys and girls who laid down their lives for it ,Everlasting memory.
  11. dmb
    dmb 2 October 2012 11: 13
    +6
    All the fair pathos of the article is broken down into the phrase: "Moreover, it appeared ABSOLUTELY SPANISH, without any" leading and guiding role of the party "!" Interestingly, the author really thinks so, or simply pays tribute to the fashion for "bloody commissars who, together with the Germans, sought to exterminate as much of the Russian people as possible" And Koshevoy kept the blanks of Komsomol tickets solely for twisting goat legs. Not so long ago, one priest, clearly a deeply decent person, in his article, addressing his colleagues, "said:" You shouldn't take someone else's for yourself. The war was won under the leadership of the communists. ”I suppose he was right, but the author was not.
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 2 October 2012 13: 56
      +1
      You spotted the "magic phrase" correctly ...
  12. JonnyT
    JonnyT 2 October 2012 11: 21
    +1
    The Western propaganda machine will strike at the Young Guard cult. The young guard is an example of true patriotism and courage, if there are such patriots in Russia, then the thieves and traitors of Russia will have a hard time. That is why the current government is trying to forget about it, but in the memory of the people these heroes are forever!
  13. nnnnnnnnn
    nnnnnnnnn 2 October 2012 12: 23
    +10
    “... on one Sunday of April, we learned that the Soviet prisoners refused to carry out any order, referring to the fact that, according to the Geneva Convention of the Red Cross, they should be treated as prisoners of war. For the camp authorities, this was an unheard-of insolence. All the first half of the day they were forced to march along Lagerstrasse (the main "street" of the camp. - A. Sh.) And were deprived of lunch.

    But women from the Red Army bloc (as we called the barracks where they lived) decided to turn this punishment into a demonstration of their strength. I remember someone shouted in our block: “Look, the Red Army is marching!” We ran out of the barracks, rushed to Lagerstrasse. And what did we see?

    It was unforgettable! Five hundred Soviet women, ten in a row, keeping an equal footing, walked, as if in a parade, minting a step. Their steps, like a drum roll, rhythmically beat the beat along Lagerstrasse. The whole column moved as a whole. Suddenly a woman on the right flank of the first row gave a command to sing. She counted out: “One, two, three!” And they sang:

    Get up a huge country

    Get up to mortal combat ...

    I had heard how they sang this song in their own hut in low tones. But here it sounded like a call to fight, like belief in a quick victory.

    Then they started singing about Moscow.

    The fascists were puzzled: the punishment by marching the humiliated prisoners of war turned into a demonstration of their strength and adherence ...

    It did not work for the SS to leave Soviet women without lunch. Political prisoners took care of food for them in advance ”[50].

    http://www.jewniverse.ru/RED/Shneyer/glava5otv%5B1%5D.htm
  14. atos_kin
    atos_kin 2 October 2012 12: 40
    +5
    Low bow to the grown-up children of the Young Guard!
  15. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 2 October 2012 13: 34
    +5
    Young Guards are out of fashion now. Liberal-pedril Shitokratisers - market-oriented people who have penetrated into all spheres of our life, impose new "heroes" on the young generation. Now in the "heroes" are the draftsmen of the members on the bridge in St. Petersburg, all sorts of raging, twitching puski, sexually preoccupied from House-2, glamorous stellar vulgarity, etc. And the main "hero" they have is
    - green BABLO!
    1. Gur
      Gur 2 October 2012 14: 48
      +8
      So, yesterday I watched an excerpt from the film "Hipsters", for the whole film I do not have enough mats, as well as for many thin attempts of modern filmmakers to shoot something about the times of the USSR. (now I'm looking for the film "Chkalov") So what are they showing? heroes are those who jerked their ass, lifted their skirts above their heads, fucked on the left and on the right, ready to sell their mother for confusion. And antiheroes are gray people, like their whole life. The wife who did not wait for the soldier, intercourse in the next room with the children, the Komsomol members of the Utyrki, who, judging by the film how to catch the dandies, had no other things to do (the country only returned with fun) What the hell the Young Guards, these are all bubbles, fiction, dull what a creative, they would have to stylishly dress ties with a swastika, and also shake their ass under the Ain Zwein Police, then there would be heroes. Bl ........ yayaya well, why have we lost our way, to which we have already sunk. In the drawer, there are only y's, but whores, snickering pot-bellied rockers, thieves in solid suits governing the country. And then you hear from the young freaks that if it were not for the grandfathers with their victory, they would eat sausages and so on. And to go to the army, no that you, I am a man of peace, I have no attachment to the Motherland, I'd rather be th, and shout from the gateway that Caucasians offend us. (damn so many feelings that everything is in a heap, well, the patient is already on the verge)
      1. Gur
        Gur 5 October 2012 08: 53
        0
        Comrades, forgive me for a bit. I take my words back for the film "Chkalov". Po ran ahead of the locomotive. Before watching the movie. Filmed of course not very, as it is comic. But the dialogue between Stalin and Chkalov is a BOMB. In the past decades about Stalin either badly or not, but here our politicians somehow did not overlook. I advise everyone to watch this dialogue, especially the freaks, maybe something will reach them.
  16. Straus_zloy
    Straus_zloy 2 October 2012 13: 54
    0

    “We need to ensure that in the coming war with Russia there is no“ Young Guard ”, no Kosmodemyanskaya and Matrosov.” This quote was read in the American magazine Collers by Alexander Golenkov, one of the journalists who studied the history of the Young Guard.


    Duck. Forgot to indicate when it was written, if at all

    1. Magazine issued before 1957.

    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collier%E2%80%99s_Weekly

    2. It is more than doubtful that today's stupid Americans know who Kosmodemyanskaya and Sailors are.
    1. Click-Klyak
      Click-Klyak 2 October 2012 14: 18
      -7
      Lord, all propaganda is built on such ducks. Remember the famous Albright phrase that Russia occupies too large a territory and has too many minerals. She did not say such a phrase.
      Or a tale about Churchill's words "Stalin accepted Russia with a plow, but left with an atomic bomb." Also a cheap compilation with perverted text.
      http://fat-yankey.livejournal.com/69167.html
      1. Gur
        Gur 2 October 2012 16: 08
        +1
        To eat, no one said anything, they always do it like that, first they watch videos where, at their instigation, the leader of the country is killed and exclaimed "WOW", and then when their own lard on mursal, they make suffering faces and grind - "you can't do that" And the expression "what they fought for, that's why they died" is considered an insult.
        1. Click-Klyak
          Click-Klyak 2 October 2012 18: 45
          0
          Great comment. Firstly, meaningless. Secondly, they kicked the Americans. Here such comments are held in high esteem, expect big pluses.
          1. Gur
            Gur 3 October 2012 08: 49
            +2
            I’m not for the pluses here, I speak out, and more than yours on this site, I know what is held in high esteem here and there. I’m not so amers disgusted by how much you excuse me for laying them. Which, as soon as they tear themselves away from the Amer’s ass, without washing, with a smart look and a guarantor of truth in the last resort, will dirty the history of my country with their dirty mouth, harassing heroes who are nowhere else in the world, in any country.
      2. de_monSher
        de_monSher 3 October 2012 01: 33
        0
        Remember the famous Albright phrase about the fact that Russia occupies too large a territory


        Ummmmm ... that phrase wasn’t spoken by Albright but by Margaret Thatcher, sort of. Albraitich is too stupid for such statements.

        Or a tale about Churchill's words "Stalin accepted Russia with a plow, but left with an atomic bomb."


        Never, in any discussion, NEVER heard that these words were ascribed to Churchill. This evil anticommunist and anti-Soviet could not say this phrase - this is simply ridiculous even. It’s already you, liberals, as always, have distorted everything ... the author of this phrase is an English historian - he forgot his name. And she was said, in a rather negative way. Like, before this the USSR did not threaten anyone, and right now it threatens the whole world. What to do - too, after all, a dumb little Brittany, the author of this phrase.

        In general, these two of your statements are enough to compose a complete picture about you and your "knowledge" ... *))))
        1. Click-Klyak
          Click-Klyak 3 October 2012 12: 52
          0
          Quote: de_monSher
          Ummmmm ... that phrase wasn’t spoken by Albright but by Margaret Thatcher, sort of. Albraitich is too stupid for such statements.

          Wonderful. link to the source. When and where she spoke.


          Quote: de_monSher
          I have never heard these words ascribed to Churchill

          True? Fill in the phrase "Stalin took Russia with a plow, but left it with an atomic bomb."
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher 3 October 2012 14: 38
            0
            As for the phrase about the plow and the atomic bomb - I repeat, I have never heard this phrase attributed to Churchill, in SERIOUS discussions. What kind of a "bomb" or not a "bomb" in search engines, you must agree - this is on the "conscience" of the search engines themselves (in case the search engines have got hold of it, together with intelligence) ... *)

            Wonderful. link to the source. When and where she spoke.


            As for the link, you know - you require almost impossible from me ... *) there is so much garbage on the network, and my filters are less reliable than even the search engines ... *) Here you have a discussion, for starters:

            http://www.avanturist.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=068df204c02ef55cebacd2ab26e8
            4af5 & topic = 521.0; imode

            This discussion is simple says that this phrase is still attributed to Thatcher, not Albright. This time.

            Well, two, this is certainly an unreliable source, but I will still give it. And so, on August 18-19, 1991, my niece was born (she was born, by the way, on the night of 18-19). At that time I was 17 years old. they left the house on me, and everyone went to the hospital. Since the events in Moscow were very tragic and I, in fact, worried about the fate of my Motherland, I sat on the night of the 18th and listened to the "voice of America". There first passed a block of information about the A-50 (this is a DLRO aircraft), then they talked about the pidr ... about the "Humpbacked" cattle, and after that they talked about the fate of the USSR. And there, among other things, the phrase was said that, according to Thatcher, 15 lemons of the population should be left in the USSR, and the rest "integrate into a free Europe". Will such a source come down?
            1. Click-Klyak
              Click-Klyak 3 October 2012 16: 32
              -1
              I will talk about Albright.
              In Russia, Madeleine Albright is often credited with claiming that the sole possession of Russia by Siberia is supposedly “unfair” and that Siberia should be placed under international control. In this case, the links are usually given to the analytical program Postscript .. In reality, on July 14, 2005, the host of the television program Postscript Alexey Pushkov said in an interview on Radio Echo of Moscow:
              As Madeleine Albright is credited with saying that "Siberia is too large a territory to belong to one state." Even if she didn't say exactly that, she probably thought, or someone out there thought from not stupid people in America. "
              He did not give any links to the source. According to Yulia Latynina, Pushkov’s “source” was the approval of a certain Nataly1001 on the forum.germany.ru forum. On the blog “The strange political situation” of June 7, 2005:
              Since my work is related to the Internet, I often read the news feed and noticed a strange political trend lately. Quite often, the Russian media began to exaggerate the topic of national security ... The statement of the former US Secretary of State, Albright, was voiced: “There can be no talk of world justice while one country owns such a territory as Siberia. Now, if it was a different country, then it would be a different matter! ... ”Actually, although this statement sounded like the opinion of a PRIVATE person and a FORMER American politician, this leads to thought ...
              Archived original post
              At the same time, the author, despite persistent demands, did not provide any references. This phrase could not be found on the English-speaking Internet. The date given by Latynina for the "first mention" of Madeleine Albright's phrase - June 2005 - is later than the release date of Nikita Mikhalkov's interview in the newspaper Argumenty i Fakty (February 9, 2005), in which he mentions a similar statement by Albright. To date, this interview with Nikita Mikhalkov is the earliest mention of Madeleine Albright's phrase about "the injustice of Siberia's possession."
              Albright herself categorically denied the phrase ascribed to her, stating: "I did not make this statement, and even so I never thought so.
              http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%EB%E1%F0%E0%E9%F2,_%CC%E0%E4%EB%E5%ED
              1. de_monSher
                de_monSher 3 October 2012 18: 11
                0
                Click-Klyak

                I have heard and read about these rumors ... *)

                Just try to explain my position to you. I do not care about Albright - I watched her political career, her behavior - a simple American predator. If you use stamps - the faithful dog of capitalism. And on the face-faces - purebred basset hound, with manners of a reckless bull terrier. In general, I don’t like recent world trends. This universal moronity of world elites. And it is precisely on the basis of this, my own, analysis of what is happening - I’ll say this.

                Anyway, I will support patriotic sentiments in Russia (although I am not Russian myself, and not a Russian at all. But all the less I can expand the concept of "patriotism" - to all countries of the former USSR). Always, in any discussion I will speak out against lovers of "truth" in history, especially the Second World War. Great Patriotic War, there was and must be an epic of the peoples of the former USSR, with monumental heroes and, albeit sometimes contrived, but nevertheless pure moral guidelines. Anyway, I support the revival of spiritual values, in the form of a return to traditional religious confessions - Orthodoxy, the Hanafi sense of Sunnism, Shiism, and by and large Catholicism (sooner or later these guys will also fight against the new order) - there is no difference. They are not as aggressive as sects and semi-sects - all sorts of evangelists, Jehovah's Witnesses, followers of the United Church of Christ, Wahhabis, to some extent - Yezidis, and others and others. Yes, there is a risk of slipping into the "Middle Ages" in the spiritual sense of the word, but nevertheless, the experience of the USSR, the baggage that was given to all its citizens, will help to avoid this.

                The alternatives to this are constant bloody showdowns. Why I hate this Humpbacked scum is partly due to the fact that out of the blue, because of his ugly, treacherous behavior, I had to spend two years of my life in the war. In general, your "love of truth", which is based on either your stupidity or your love for goods (fame, money - it doesn't matter), will not lead to anything good. This is my firm conviction, dear ... *)
                1. Click-Klyak
                  Click-Klyak 4 October 2012 00: 23
                  0
                  "Everyone should, if necessary, die for the Motherland. But no one should be forced to lie, even for the Motherland."
                  Montaigne.
                  1. de_monSher
                    de_monSher 4 October 2012 01: 27
                    +1
                    Click-Klyak

                    Any monstrous lie always tries to be called the truth.

                    You understand, my Father is equal in status to a war veteran. And he goes to the hospital every six months - for heart prevention. And in the early 16s, an elderly man lay with him in the ward. In fact, his relatives did not come to him. Either they have forgotten, or there is simply no one left. So, he began to fight on the Southern Front - at the age of 3.14 he went to war, and since he was tall, and there was a lot of confusion, he broke into the army. I ... honestly, I hate chess. But I came to him every day to play this game, but the main thing is to listen to him. So, he told how in Germany already, before the formation, their battalion commander was shot, for SUSPECTION of rape of a German woman. Then they all cried and turned away. But - the law is the law. And you have no idea what it feels like for me, after the memories of this MAN, to read the inventions and inventions of all lovers of "truth", or rather - any XNUMXdaras (there is no other word for defining SUCH scum, I don’t have it, you should understand me correctly admins), which are already so many invented that you are already amazed. Just search and you'll find tons of this "literature" on the net. There are a lot of such ciliates Shas. And about the millions of raped, killed, torn apart German women have already invented this. Although, when my Father served in Germany, for some reason this question was never raised. And my Father is a very sociable person, and he had a lot of friends among the Germans. And how ... having survived from a neighboring country, such that new "historians" describe, and after that be friends with FAMILIES, with officers of the ARMY of the country that did this to them? Okay, I just keep quiet about the USSR - the most important thing in our peoples is the ability to forgive.

                    In general, dear. You didn’t understand me again. I'm not saying that, for example, Faddev, wrote a lie about the Young Guard. I affirm that you are lying ... I don’t know why, but it is. This time you didn’t understand me? And remember Nefig Montaigne ...
                    1. nickname 1 and 2
                      nickname 1 and 2 4 October 2012 11: 55
                      +1
                      de_monSher,

                      Thanks for this post !!!! I really liked it! I think that not only him but also others. like - nailed !!! So them! angry

                      No, I myself am tormented by the question: where does this P.O.N.O.S come from?
                      No, maybe it's from an ancient habit of lying about fish on the shoulder ??? or about two birds with one stone ??? or about a squirrel in the eye ????
                      In short: national CREATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's only the beginning????? Here they are for the stimulus: wassat
                      1. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 4 October 2012 22: 27
                        0
                        nickname 1 and 2

                        *) Oh yeah. This "phenomenon", the draft sea has developed. And in general, there is a purely moral dilemma. If you count people like Click-Klyak, a normal person and trying to reason with him, he immediately begins to "be smart", not even trying to grasp the global thought, "get hung up" on small details. With all this, his brain is busy - a drop of Echo of Moscow = if you can call them "analytics", generally carrying at least a grain of thought = half a drop of Solzhenitsyn, - and the rest of the drops, in people like him, with or without them I know that the USA-shny White Obkom and his servants dripped like true stud stallions ...

                        In general, there is only one way out - to viciously troll such dudes and dudes ... see ...
                    2. Click-Klyak
                      Click-Klyak 4 October 2012 13: 09
                      0
                      Nobody argues what kind of rape and looting they shot. But this also does not mean that they were shot all rapists and looters, right?
                      What just was not. They killed their officers for trying to protect the civilian population. And they raped and killed not only Germans, but also our compatriots who were taken to work in Germany.
                      Moreover, the sources are not only German data, but also our reports of commandant’s offices, memoirs of veterans, etc.
                      This passage is often quoted. Just keep in mind that Romania at that time became an ally and was stricter there.
                      “The next day, her parents come with the local authorities to our brigade. And the next day, the authorities found them and took them - SMERSH worked well. Lieutenant Ivanov immediately confessed that he had shot, but he did not understand what he had killed. On the third day, the trial. The whole brigade was built in the clearing, the burgomaster and the father and mother were brought in. The mechanic was crying bitterly. Ivanov still says to him: "Listen, be a man. They won't shoot you anyway, there is nothing to dismiss the nurse. They will send to the penal battalion - you will redeem it with blood." word, he kept asking for forgiveness. And so it happened - they were given twenty-five years with the replacement of a penal battalion. The lieutenant stood up and said: "Citizens of the judge of the Military Tribunal, I have committed a crime and I ask me not to do any leniency." That's so simple and firm. and sits, picking his teeth with a blade of grass. The verdict was announced: "Shoot in front of the formation. Build a brigade. Execute the sentence." We built for about fifteen or twenty minutes. We brought the convict to a previously dug grave. special officer, lieutenant colonel, says to our battalion special officer standing in the ranks of the brigade: "Comrade Morozov, carry out the sentence." He doesn't come out. "I order you!" He stands, does not come out. Then the lieutenant colonel runs up to him, grabs his hand, pulls him out of line and through his teeth swearing: "I order you !!!" He went. I went up to the convict. Lieutenant Ivanov took off his cap, bowed, said: "Forgive me, brothers." And that's all. Morozov tells him: "Get on your knees." He said this very quietly, but everyone could hear it - there was an eerie silence. The lieutenant knelt down, folded the cap behind his belt: "Bend your head." And when he bowed his head, the special officer shot him in the back of the head. The lieutenant's body falls and convulses. It was so creepy…. The special officer turned and walked, smoke comes from the pistol, and he walks, staggers like a drunk. The Colonel shouts: “Control! Control!" He hears nothing, goes. Then he himself jumps, once, again, again.
                      What I remember is that after each shot, he was already dead, and still shuddered. He pushed the body with his foot, it rolled into the grave: “Bury”. Buried. "Disperse!" No one left for fifteen minutes. Dead silence. He fought great, respected him, they knew that the Romanians burned his family. After all, he could ask for indulgence, say that by chance, no…. After that, there were no excesses with the local population in our brigade. "
                      1. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 4 October 2012 22: 12
                        0
                        Click-Klyak

                        = Shrugged = ... The grave will fix the hunchback. One thing pleases, whether nature or God, always acts according to the principle "God is not a fryer" ... *) You can continue to throw your garbage - I give you permission, curiously, someone else's ... and even something similar to "opinion". ..
                      2. Gur
                        Gur 5 October 2012 09: 12
                        0
                        I have no doubt that there have been cases of looting, rape, and arbitrariness. It is possible that after these soldiers survived, their relatives and the whole country. But the order to suppress these actions is a precedent, in general in history, no where before, after that, it was not, and not in what army of the world. And ours, the villages of civilians were not burned, they did not raise children with hostility, and they did not make necklaces from the ears of the dead.
                      3. Click-Klyak
                        Click-Klyak 5 October 2012 10: 42
                        -1
                        There were ... Just as they were. Only officers convicted 5 thousand.
                        But why this unique order was issued by us - just think. But because everything completely overflowed the banks. And the complacent Stalinist "soldier can play pranks" was replaced by concern - and then how to stop the chaos?
                        When the drunken soldiers just started sending commanders and almost what was wrong - to shoot.
                        And about what our and Germans did or did not do ... Here the question is one. The atrocities of the winners were largely concealed, and the atrocities of the vanquished are fully known, or even exaggerated.
                        What did our - read. Will vomit.
                        And not only in Germany. The Chinese - and they began to shoot at the Red Army for their atrocities.
                      4. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 5 October 2012 16: 19
                        0
                        Click-Klyak

                        for all his opponents

                        In general, this is another proof of the neglected course of mental illness, in which one's sins are ascribed to others - the main thing is to ascribe them to your ideological opponent. This person has purely "academic" knowledge. The main approach is "They said in Echo of Moscow ... in such a rag ... this source ... read". And practically, a person has zero information. I can judge from my own experience - by the end of the seventies I lived on the border with China, my Father was injured in one of the last incidents. Then in the mid-90s, I had to be in Tajikistan, and we reached Northern Afghanistan. After that, I already privately visited China (2004-2005), and in 2007 in Afghanistan - an American acquaintance dragged me there. I am also a very sociable person and I love to pull people out to talk. As in the case of Germany (this is the experience of my Father), and in China and Afghanistan - RESPECT for the Soviet Army, and completely dismissive of the Americans. Out of the blue, this respect and DISRESPECT does not arise ... *) In general, your nonsense, just lovely, sir "academician" Click-Klyak? *)
                      5. Click-Klyak
                        Click-Klyak 5 October 2012 17: 29
                        0
                        You gave a long comment, but there is no specifics in it except that you lived on the border with China. Where, by the way, is not in Blagoveshchensk?
                        The information I give is based on official data - ours and German. Yes, a lot is still classified.
                        To a direct question of Solonin when this and that will be declassified, he received a direct answer - "Never".
                        But even what leaked from the archives is enough to understand that terrible things were happening. Even a brutal soldier burst into the hospital.
                      6. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 5 October 2012 23: 22
                        0
                        Click-Klyak

                        No ... the village of Pogranichny, Primorsky Krai.

                        The specifics? What specifics are you talking about? There is no specifics in the world, there is only - interpretation. One and the same event can be interpreted in different ways. For example, tomorrow, in your neighboring area, if suddenly there is a scuffle, there will immediately appear a bunch of versions: versions of the two sides that fought; versions of each individual participant in the fight; official version of the police; versions of witnesses; national versions - if they fought on a national basis; maybe even a version on conspiracy theory will appear - if you suddenly decide that the Templars were fighting with the Rosicrucians. Etc. etc. etc.

                        So - you are trying to impose your version. I explain to you, "that a ball is a ball, and it cannot be a parallelepiped in Euclidean geometry." You refer to documents that you yourself have not seen, but only rely on interpretations of interpretations, interpreters who have an obvious lack of brains in their heads. You don't need specifics, do you understand? Although, I laid out to you (in passing of course) my specific, subjective perception, from communicating with people who survived the Japanese occupation and the arrival of Soviet troops in Manchuria = I talked with such people in China =. From communicating with those who are now experiencing the American occupation and at one time fought with us, the Soviet Union = the guys are not very educated, they cannot speak beautifully, but they felt the difference in full - they understood that the people of the Union were PEOPLE, not animals =. in Germany, they faced = mainly Father = with people who survived that war, and saw it from the side of our then enemies. Not close and there were none - "horror-nightmares-extinguish-the-light-came-tata
                      7. Click-Klyak
                        Click-Klyak 5 October 2012 23: 37
                        0
                        Quote: de_monSher
                        There is no specificity in the world, only interpretation. One and the same event, can be interpreted in different ways

                        That's it. As for the atrocities of the Red Army in Germany, I heard about them from the completely Soviet historian G. Bordyugov. He justified the Red Army with all his might, disputed all the facts he could. However, there is much that even he bitterly recognized. Yes it was.
                        For looting - remember at least Zhukov. Is cleaning jewelry stores in Poland also a soldier’s revenge for mother’s pain and tears?
                      8. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 5 October 2012 23: 59
                        0
                        ... revenge of a soldier for the pain and tears of mothers?


                        What does revenge mean? What are you talking about here? Do you consider these events as a historian - from an academic point of view, or as a propagandist - from the point of view of pressure on the brain? Decide, huh?

                        Every country has a criminal code. And in any case, there are actions falling under this code. And there are people who, for one reason or another, commit criminal offenses. And here already, the ideological background of these actions - "I took revenge ... I wanted to repay ..." and so on. etc. - do not play a role. That is why people were shot in front of the formation, for illegal actions, during the war - not BECAUSE I had to urgently invent articles for them, but because there are punishable offenses. The percentage of illegal actions was and is - always. But those monstrous scales that you want to push through are a myth. I myself, in Tajikistan, faced ONCE with such an offense of a colleague. Once IN TWO YEARS. Scale - battalion. Does this mean something? We are the heirs of those who fought the Nazis, although we were divided into fiefdoms in 91, do you understand? Based on this ... and from the real memories of the front-line soldiers, from the experiences of the Afghans, the Chinese - extrapolate? Or, if you order, look into your mouth and nod - "Yes, yes! You are right!" Dismiss me. I can say that you are fundamentally wrong. Basically. Absolutely, do you understand? You're lying, and how ...
                      9. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 6 October 2012 02: 48
                        0
                        For looting - remember at least Zhukov. Jewelry stores in Poland to clean ...


                        Myth. My Father was familiar with many military officers ... personally acquainted with Kulikov, for example - met and became friends during the years of my Father's service under his leadership in Germany. Generals are such a shas that you can’t get them on a lame goat, but in those days everything was simpler. With me, in a private setting, conversations were raised on this subject - since front-line officers still played a role, let’s say, in the same historical arena at the same time as Zhukov. Zhukov, I bought things, yes. And paid for it.

                        Of course, I understand that you are a big fan of myths. But still - you don’t have to lie too much. It’s somehow ... mmmmm ... disgusting ...
                      10. Click-Klyak
                        Click-Klyak 6 October 2012 08: 07
                        -1
                        See for yourself. I give you the facts and official Soviet documents. After all, the looting of Zhukov was dismantled from the filing of Stalin, if you remember. Inventory of property. Wagons exported goods from Germany. Can you imagine Montgomery ordering a jewelry store to open and steal valuables?
                        What myths are we talking about?
                      11. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 6 October 2012 09: 07
                        -1
                        I have a real feeling that we are speaking in different languages ​​= shrugged =. And - from your submission. Okay, I’ll repeat ...

                        Zhukov, bought things in large quantities, cheaply, taking this opportunity, he took out trophies. Yes, a person had a disease - materialism is called = for me personally - a strange phenomenon =, for which - I repeat, and paid. Cases of "looting", on his part, are a myth. Zhukov, by the end of the war he had grown into a very strong figure, and naturally he had more than enough enemies. And, you must admit, it is very easy to point a finger at a person, beckon with a finger, as it is now called a PR manager, and order him a political murder of a person. And that's all ... the office went to write - "Zhukov is a marauder!" Well, then, in the 90s, people like you appeared and wrote myths. Moreover, the most interesting thing in these myths is that the authors take their shortcomings as a basis = every author takes himself as a basis, almost always - I write a little, fiction, I know = in order to attribute them to others. And when I read such nonsense, it becomes interesting to me to what extent a morally neglected author should have to write such a thing.

                        However, this is lyrics. Living witnesses, with whom my Father and I were fortunate enough to communicate, did not confirm anything of the sort. But they were made from another test, not like us - mired in money, idiocy and fear. And the main thing in them was the absolute perception of such a concept as honesty. The army, in its modern sense - the center of vices, by and large, began to create Khrushchev, began to call for conscripts for military service.

                        History is first made by people, then it is written and rewritten by opportunists. This is a simple truth.

                        As for the export of material assets - they say that Eisenhower sinned on a large scale. However, it is on the conscience of American market opportunists. And Montogmery, your beloved, just in the face of the ridge, it was robust, in the 40th year, and he was not up to trophies - he would have to return his honor ... *) huh ... damn ... Montgomery ... they remembered - loser ... *)))
                2. nickname 1 and 2
                  nickname 1 and 2 6 October 2012 09: 14
                  -1
                  de_monSher,

                  Right! Very well said! And I want to add: Kochergin "A Man with an Ax" - IT IS NECESSARY TO GIVE SUCH A CHANGE, SO THE Opponent DOES NOT HAVE EVEN A HINT, A DESIRE - TO FILL STILL! - (like that) = I don't quite agree with this in a fight on the street, but in a war you have to do that!
                  Click-Klyak,
                  No need to poke
                  Quote: Click-Gag
                  Montaigne.
                  - We do not need their values! Why do you - Gag - took that it is an axiom ??? and to the place?
                  V.V. Putin "...... did they not adequately answer? Why should we run out to the border with a penknife? And stand waving it ??? ..." Who can determine whether they answered adequately or not adequately?
                  The Germans exported all the values ​​from Russia ??? Exported! Keeping this in mind and knowing that tomorrow YOUR RIPPED country must be restored -
                  loaded a bit of junk !!! (".... open a jewelry store ...." HA!) And what should have been = sweep, patch up holes in the walls, shake off the dust, wash their faces, wipe their noses, apologize for bothering ?????? ????????

                  No! If our army, violating the order, under the root of the whole nation-NO ONE, EVER, WOULD NOT BUILD MILITARY BASES AROUND RUSSIA !!! AND NO ONE WOULD DRINK NOW about atrocities! NONE!

                  SURE - MERICOSES THOUGHT THAN THOUGHT GIVING THE ORDER TO RESET THE ATOMIC BOMB!
                  EXACTLY THOUGHT THOUGHT AMERICOSES, WATERING Heroic Vietnam napalm! - but they fought an unjust war!
                  But our army was just 10000% fair, delivering an adequate blow to fascist Germany! And wipe out the German nation, our country, would destroy HYDRA, the brutalized essence of the werewolf!
                  Russia is now dying due to the Second World War, because the gene pool has been dealt irreparable damage! And the aggressor is in order! Europe is booming! Germany is the richest country in Europe! Could it be that the wealth - stolen from Russia, has become a kind of - the original foundation in the development of business and industry ????
                  1. de_monSher
                    de_monSher 6 October 2012 09: 32
                    0
                    yyyyyyyyyyyy ... * ((( Nick, Nick ... One and Two ... * (((What are you doing, huh * * (((((= waved =. Well, what do you write something, huh * ((((

                    Setting the NUMBER ONCE: When they lie, Falsehood cannot be maintained - even in small things. And you:
                    loaded a bit of junk !!! (".... open a jewelry store ...." HA!)

                    what for ?!

                    Setting number TWO: Exposure.
                    - We do not need their values! Why do you - Gag - took that it is an axiom ??? and to the place?



                    Do not take nonsense to heart. Do you understand? Montaigne is undoubtedly great, and our task with you, calmly, without nerves, to smash to pieces all the "logic" of opponents, without fanaticism, and most importantly - QUIET! You are read by young men and women, small ones, in whose heads you need to put the CORRECT attitudes, and not so that they have a dual perception ... cognitive dissonance ... damn it ...

                    Do you understand? *)
                    1. nickname 1 and 2
                      nickname 1 and 2 6 October 2012 11: 24
                      0
                      de_monSher,
                      Sorry! Forgive me and the readers of my post! EEEEEEEEh! Excuse me and GAG! He got lost!
                      -----------------
                      Cher! From a young age, in passion, so I will "smack" the opponent, it will not seem a little! Here, similarly, as Kochergin (Man with an ax) in a fight, I'm in an argument!
                      But, believe me, this is me - restrained! and respectfully!
                      But I can’t keep silent - I can’t stand it when they carry nonsense!
                      ------------------------
                      One consideration:
                      Here Budanov was persecuted, condemned - there is no more of him! There is only one demand from him - he is a military man! and with WWII fighters there is another demand (for those who are not personnel)!
                      And do not put everything in a heap here! Those who are in partisans are not regular military personnel! These are the avengers! And the avengers take revenge! And I remember it was said to them: Your revenge is sacred! (like that) And, therefore, they: since your itch is on your shoulder, swing your hand! ..... And in the army there were purely civilians! And there were a lot of people for whom war is not up to the challenge!
                      And we must not forget that there was no information, there was misinformation! There was a strong "bang" on the head, and there was no clapping on the shoulder and a soothing voice "from above"! And for a German there was an hourly
                      "come on, come on - gut!"
                      1. Click-Klyak
                        Click-Klyak 6 October 2012 21: 42
                        0
                        You guys drowned the discussion in verbiage. I’m used to it like this - do not believe the facts that I have cited - I will give confirmations and documents. And here in response do not understand that. It seems that the opponents agree about the violence, and about the looting, and then they justify the criminals. But what, a man who is accustomed to rape and rob, returning home will become a quiet affectionate angel?
                        Scold me something about the USA, although we are not talking about the USA.
                      2. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 6 October 2012 21: 48
                        0
                        Click-Klyak

                        Scold me something about the USA, although we are not talking about the USA


                        Are you having problems with cause and effect relationships? I gave you tales about the export of valuables by Eisenhower, in response to your submission of tales about Zhukov's "looting". And you are the first to remember Marshal Montogmery (English, of course, Marshal - but the difference is not significant). So, isn't it? What else did I "sculpt" about the United States? Exactly, with facts - quote me please? *)

                        Further - you still have not given a single link. And ... even before you make a smart face, and try to convict me of something, CAREFULLY re-read my argument. Then you will not look so stupid in your attempt to be clever ... *)
                      3. Click-Klyak
                        Click-Klyak 7 October 2012 11: 54
                        -1
                        Quote: de_monSher
                        I gave you stories about the export of valuables by Eisenhower, in response to your submission of stories about Zhukov's "looting"

                        The looting of Zhukov is an officially established fact. And as for Eisenhower, I will ask for confirmation.

                        Quote: de_monSher
                        What else did I "sculpt" about the United States?

                        Nick sculpted. "SURE - THIS IS EXACTLY SO THOUGHT THE MERICOS GIVING AN ORDER TO DROP THE ATOMIC BOMB!
                        EXACTLY THIS IS THE AMERICOS THOUGHT, WATERING Heroic Vietnam with napalm! - but they fought an unjust war! "


                        Quote: de_monSher
                        Further - you have not yet given a single link

                        No problems. What specific fact to confirm?
                      4. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 7 October 2012 17: 35
                        0
                        Um ... nevertheless, the last answer to you, perhaps, is to-Click-Swear ...

                        And so, you still do not understand my main messages that I wanted to convey to you. Firstly:

                        Looting Zhukov officially established fact.


                        Not installed a opportunistic... The man had to be "killed" politically, and this was done. I repeat, the memories of real military men about Zhukov were imprinted in my memory - they did not know how to lie. In the same way, I feel about Eisenhower's "looting" = I'm too lazy to dig in the links, but ... search, and you will find, believe me =. Both Zhukov and Eisenhower are the commanders of Victory. And for this we bow and thank them. And the point.

                        The second point is why I even got into this discussion with you. You - shamelessly lied to, and I intervened. If you remember, I just, in general terms, supported you in the fact that some phrases could not be said by Churchill or Albright. And EVERYTHING, do you understand? "Proselytism" to breed, I was not going here. I repeat, your "faith" is absolutely stupid, wrong, but nevertheless strong. Who am I to make you replace her? For you "religious fanatics" these actions cause epileptic seizures. And this is not aesthetically pleasing and not hygienic, you know.

                        Farther. All your argumentation boils down to referring to authors, historians, etc. Each work to which you refer has been refuted more than once, brought out as apocrypha and raised "to the peak" by other researchers. So, understand - your argumentation, purely subjective, and boils down to a simple phrase - "I want to think so. I believe that it is." Therefore, I consider you a religious fanatic - all the features of a fundamental sect are present, up to the presence of apocrypha and symbols of faith.

                        Next - I will analyze subjectivity in history. People make history. These people are either worthy of respect or despicable. If we take a new and recent history, I can list people worthy of respect - Churchill, Stalin, Zhukov, Eisenhower, Reagan, Thatcher or the same Brzezinski. Why exactly this list? These people certainly defended the interests of those nations and associations of nations that represented and represent. And even if I don’t like the conclusions of the same Brzezinski, it’s certain that I will regret when the world loses such a thinker. On the other side of the scales is, for example, scum Gorbataya, Yakovlev, Bush, Jr. = simply because an idiot = etc. I’ll not even lose these creatures, and I promised to come to the grave of scum Gorbatoy and drink a glass of the most filthy moonshine, so that such scumbags would no longer appear in this world.

                        That's about it. I hope you have no more questions for you?
                      5. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 6 October 2012 22: 07
                        0
                        Click-Klyak

                        And more ... to put an end to this stupid discussion, I’ll tell you this:

                        You do not need to argue anything. I perfectly understand and see that you are a deeply "believer" person. I will say more - a fanatic from the belief in a lie. All your arguments, "creeds" are lies from start to finish. Concocted by a gang of Gorbachev, Yakovlev and other scum. I read some of this pseudo-literary rubbish. Even 20 years ago, when I was legally supposed to be "revolutionary", due to my youth, these stories did not seem convincing to me. Or rather, even - absolutely empty fabrications. I will not shake your faith - I know this, since you are strongly obstinate in your absolutely incorrect fabrications. So - let's put an end to this. To be honest, I'm already a little tired of you ... *)
  17. strannik595
    strannik595 2 October 2012 14: 00
    +4
    monument of the Young Guard in the Yekaterinhof park in St. Petersburg, often walked there in the evenings ...... people remember the feat of heroes, at least those who were born in Soviet times
  18. darkman70
    darkman70 2 October 2012 16: 16
    +3
    When I was at school, some of the boys' favorite books were books about hero pioneers. And now schoolchildren have favorite characters - Spider-Man, X-Men, and other American comic book heroes. Something needs to be done urgently with this.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 2 October 2012 17: 33
      +1
      To re-create children's and youth organizations, for a start as sports-patriotic, then to promote their ideology and propaganda, otherwise, this is:
      Quote: Click-Gag
      Can you really object? Not? I thought so. Among your company, only Brother Sarych is somehow able to discuss. The rest can only be minus.
      , while referring to the yellow press as an argument, it will only grow crying .
  19. Kibb
    Kibb 2 October 2012 19: 24
    +1
    What a terrible thing this site is getting.
    1. Konrad
      Konrad 3 October 2012 21: 24
      -1
      Quote: Kibb

      What a terrible thing this site is getting.

      I, too, decided to go only to pages where there is no policy. "Voennoe obozreniye", turns into a Sabbath of Nazis, Stalinists and anti-Semites.
  20. Ratibor12
    Ratibor12 2 October 2012 19: 30
    +1
    We remember the Young Guard. We spit on the nonsense carried by the worms from the fifth column. And do not hesitate, if something happens - new young avengers will appear. There will always be those who make up the backbone. And genocide in the occupied territory will quickly clear the minds of the vacillators. Those who "puss ... th" will not remain. Well, traitors will also be everywhere and always. Some of them are training on our forum. Only in vain. They are not betting on those.
    1. Evrepid
      Evrepid 2 October 2012 19: 53
      +1
      You understand that most likely those whom you now call traitors training on the forum, in such terrible circumstances, they will not be traitors, but you should always think.
  21. Ratibor12
    Ratibor12 2 October 2012 21: 07
    +2
    Quote: Evrepid
    You understand that most likely those whom you now call traitors training on the forum, in such terrible circumstances, they will not be traitors, but you should always think.


    They betrayed now. Everything is clear with them. It is treated only with a rope.

    Internet Taratut
    Nonsense is here and there
    It seems to do no harm
    But tired of listening to nonsense

    Near Klick-Klyak puffs -
    "Truths" holy lighthouse
    The Schlag would say about him:
    "This is human slag ..."

    There is a toilet in the apartment!
    Should I crap on the Internet?
    Maybe the complex is there?
    Maybe one of them is sick?

    Maybe someone sent them to us?
    Maybe someone gave them money?
    The truth, alas, is simple
    Not harder than counting up to a hundred

    After all, some
    Exterminating his people
    Hid, washed, survived
    And a family with children

    The bastard, the scoundrel
    Children grew up in father
    And they by themselves
    They hate us

    Their Resentment to the Country
    War winner
    And clear and clear
    Like a toothless gum

    Hey, the descendants of the executioners,
    Yes, traitors, jerkers!
    Well, your turn will come
    In the meantime, shut your mouth!
    1. Click-Klyak
      Click-Klyak 4 October 2012 00: 24
      0
      Not Pushkin, of course. But well done, showed imagination. I put a plus.
  22. Alexander 1958
    Alexander 1958 2 October 2012 21: 23
    0
    Good afternoon! Good news from Ukraine! The guys from the Lugansk region independently made a film about the Young Guard. Details link
    http://www.alternatio.org/articles/video/item/3487-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B
    8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B6%D1%8C
    -%D1%81%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%BB%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8
    %D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9-%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%84%D0%B8%
    D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC-%D0%BE-%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B9-%D0%B3%D0%B2
    %D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B8
    1. Zynaps
      Zynaps 3 October 2012 00: 00
      0
      in addition, Tabachnyk firmly promised to return the "Young Guard" to the compulsory curriculum for Ukrainian schools. judging by how the school curriculum has been changing for the better lately, the book will return to schoolchildren. at least I was lucky with the Minister of Education.
  23. derk365
    derk365 2 October 2012 22: 04
    0
    We will remember them !!! As long as we remember them they are alive !!
  24. 16
    16 2 October 2012 22: 47
    0
    I remember, I’m proud! and that generation of 18-19-year-olds died for the MOTHERLAND! one from Ryazan was there I. ZEMNUKHOV!
  25. Captain45
    Captain45 2 October 2012 23: 06
    0
    When I was in school, our pioneer squad was named after Oleg Koshevoy, in the assembly hall there was a stand with materials about the Young Guard, and I am proud of it. And recently I went to my school with bare walls, and information on how to recognize an explosive device and where to call. These are the things, as the ancients said: "o tempera, o more", I can not vouch for the correctness of the spelling.
  26. Pushkar
    Pushkar 3 October 2012 00: 26
    0
    Evripid They will. Already seen such.
  27. mind1954
    mind1954 3 October 2012 22: 00
    0
    When I, falling asleep on my mother’s lap while watching the first edition
    movie in the club, saw Seryozha Tyulenina jumping out of the body,
    well understood what the "Young Guard" is and what it means
    for our people!
  28. knn54
    knn54 4 October 2012 18: 03
    0
    Ideology triumphed in the war against fascism. But what is now being proposed in return. If tomorrow is war, will there be a place for a feat?
    P.S
    In 1987 the son of our party organizer refused to join the Komsomol, arguing that the Communists and Komsomol members would be shot in the first place. Recently, my granddaughter, when asked about the heroes, answered that she did not know the "cartoon" about Matrosov !!! Where we are going ???