German self-propelled guns for Ukraine. Dubious source and lack of prospects

35

ACS Panzerhaubitse 2000 on the march

According to the German press, in the foreseeable future, the armed forces of Ukraine may receive German Panzerhaubitze 2000 or RCH 155 self-propelled howitzers. However, this information has not yet received official confirmation. In addition, the disclosed details cast doubt on the very possibility of carrying out such plans with obtaining at least part of the desired results.

According to unofficial data


On April 9, the German edition of Welt am Sonntag reported on the preparation of a contract for the supply of equipment. It received information about these processes from an unnamed source in the Ukrainian leadership. At the same time, the publication was unable to get a comment from the German government agencies or the manufacturer of equipment, which, allegedly, will participate in the deal.



According to an anonymous source, recently the German company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) offered the Ukrainian leadership to purchase 100 self-propelled howitzers. Kyiv became interested in this proposal, and on April 9 sent a corresponding request to the German Ministry of Economics. The fate of this document is still unknown.


According to Welt am Sonntag, the German side offered Ukraine to buy a hundred PzH 2000 self-propelled guns or RCH 155 combat vehicles unified with them. The supply should also include training and maintenance equipment, spare parts, etc. The cost of a complete set based on caterpillar self-propelled guns will reach 1,7 billion euros, and 1,2 billion are asked for wheeled vehicles.

The source also disclosed the proposed method of making the deliveries. If Kyiv chooses serial PzH 2000, then they can be transferred from the presence of the Bundeswehr. In parallel, KMW will build an appropriate number of new self-propelled guns for the German army and compensate for the "loss". The principles of production and supply of wheeled RCH 155 are not specified.

The possible terms of the contract are named. The first batch of equipment can be transferred to the customer within 30 months from the date of its signing. This means that it will be able to be transferred no earlier than October-November 2024. It will be possible to supply all the ordered self-propelled guns and replace them in the German army only by 2027.


Officials and structures did not comment on such news, citing the need to maintain secrecy. At the same time, Welt am Sonntag notes that even if an agreement in principle is reached, a hypothetical German-Ukrainian contract will have to go through all the bureaucratic procedures. Whether he will be able to obtain the necessary approval is unknown.

Obvious Problems


The message from Welt am Sonntag is of some interest. On the whole, it fits into the observed logic of the actions of European states and shows a possible scenario for the development of events in the near future. However, both the news itself and the hypothetical contract for the supply of self-propelled guns have a number of weaknesses. The latter make one doubt the veracity of the information and the viability of the very idea of ​​selling the PzH 2000 or RCH 155 to the Ukrainian army.

First of all, you need to pay attention to the source of the messages. Welt am Sonntag refers to an unnamed representative of the Ukrainian authorities. The anonymity of the source is in itself a cause for doubt. His belonging to the Kiev regime also raises questions. The Ukrainian authorities are constantly trying to pass off wishful thinking, and "news" about German self-propelled guns may be another example of this.


If the deal is really planned, then it will be extremely unprofitable for Ukraine. For 100 self-propelled guns PzH 2000 and related products require 1,7 billion euros - 17 million per set. At the same time, we are talking about used equipment from the presence, which at one time was purchased for 4,6 million euros per car. Even taking into account possible minor or medium repairs, additional products, etc. the price of 17 million euros looks excessive.

The purchase of RCH 155 wheeled self-propelled guns looks more profitable. For a hundred of these machines with a kit, you will have to pay “only” 1,2 billion euros, or 12 million per unit. At the same time, the customer will receive equipment of a new production, built specifically for him, and not decommissioned.

Regardless of the chosen equipment, the contract will be too expensive for today's Ukraine. It is unlikely that Kyiv will be able to find 1,2 or 1,7 billion euros to pay for self-propelled guns. A foreign loan could be a way out, but this will not be easy, and in addition, it will increase the overall costs of the purchase. In addition, the return of the loan will be questionable, which is unlikely to please foreign partners.


RCH 155 / AGM self-propelled gun on Boxer chassis

Another problem with a hypothetical contract is delivery time. Even used self-propelled guns are ready to be transferred only after two and a half years. It is obvious that by this time the Ukrainian army and the Kyiv regime will cease to exist in its current form.

Thus, the contract for the supply of self-propelled guns PzH 2000 or RCH 155 for the Ukrainian army does not make any sense. Such an agreement would be too expensive for Kyiv, and the results of its implementation would appear too late. Probably, Germany and Ukraine understand this - and therefore the possible delivery of self-propelled guns has not yet moved beyond general conversations and dubious publications in the press.

German benefits


However, the order of German equipment is obviously unprofitable only for the Ukrainian side. Germany, in turn, can benefit from such a treaty. Of course, there are certain risks, but even partial execution of the order will have positive consequences.

First of all, KMW remains the winner. Regardless of the choice of the customer, she will have to build new equipment. If Kyiv wants used PzH 2000s from stock, KMW will produce new vehicles for the Bundeswehr. Otherwise, the company will have to build new RCH 155s. Both scenarios are interesting for KMW, although they differ in the cost of the contract. This explains why KMW, according to Welt am Sonntag, is the initiator of the deal.


The Bundeswehr can also benefit. Its artillery units are armed with approx. 120 PzH 200 self-propelled howitzers built in the XNUMXs and XNUMXs. Most of this equipment with a partially depleted resource can be handed over to Ukraine, and completely new machines can be ordered instead, incl. modernized look.

Purchase of equipment can be carried out on credit, which will attract the attention of German banks. At the same time, high risks will force them to raise the interest for the loan and insurance of the transaction. It is obvious that the banks involved will not give up the opportunities that have appeared and will try to cash in on the needy client in the person of Kyiv.

No prospects


It is not yet clear whether the latest reports from the German press are true. The only news about the possible supply of self-propelled guns from Germany to Ukraine refers to at least an unreliable source and is not confirmed by official structures. At the same time, it is easy to see that the described scheme of international cooperation - if it is implemented - will be beneficial only to the seller country, and the Ukrainian regime will not be able to get any benefit from it.

However, there is nothing wrong with this. German self-propelled guns, which can be delivered only after 30 months, will no longer hit the battlefield. Accordingly, they will not be able to prevent the ongoing demilitarization of Ukraine and the subsequent establishment of peace and order. In the current situation, this is the optimal outcome.
35 comments
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  1. +17
    April 12 2022 04: 56
    I stopped understanding to understand this year what is happening with Germany. Scholz is an outspoken revanchist. At the same time, who spat on German society. He is booed at rallies for the supply of weapons and he just lays on people. Noise further. Germany begins to slowly change in a very bad way. I never thought that I would be ashamed of what my historical homeland is doing ...
    1. +2
      April 12 2022 06: 02
      Quote: carstorm 11
      I never thought that I would be ashamed of what my historical homeland is doing ...

      Why be ashamed? Self-propelled guns, in general, are very good. However, the Germans historically did such a technique well, one can recall the Ferdinands and the Jagdtigers, although they did not help Hitler much. But if Zelya believes that he will be able to buy and use these, by the standards of an independent, prodigy before his powers end prematurely due to the removal of country 404 with Server globe, I can offer him a heap to buy the famous Brooklyn Bridge (Brooklyn Bridge). Inexpensive, only 1 lamb bucks, but only in cash, not new papers no larger than $20. Although I can accept bitcoins at the current rate.
      1. +13
        April 12 2022 06: 12
        I am ashamed that the heirs of the Third Reich and its crimes are supplying weapons to kill Russians. I am ashamed that the country whose ancestors are now living killed millions of Soviet people now gives some Slavs weapons to kill others. And the Germans forgot about what their grandfathers did.
        1. +2
          April 12 2022 11: 13
          Just Scholz, he loves the circus very much and is delighted with clowns. And so, well, if it were possible, then the logic is sound, to update the self-propelled guns at the expense of someone, this is a commercial, if not a genius, but an advanced manager. wink
        2. +3
          April 12 2022 15: 09
          Quote: carstorm 11
          I am ashamed that the heirs of the Third Reich and its crimes are supplying weapons to kill Russians. I am ashamed that the country whose ancestors are now living killed millions of Soviet people now gives some Slavs weapons to kill others. And the Germans forgot about what their grandfathers did.


          These Germans (and all Europeans) have been brainwashed specifically for 20 years that Putin is the new Hitler. Putin wants to take over Europe. Gas, oil, timber, aluminum, steel, wheat are Putin's weapons. Any of our exports is a weapon.
          They were inspired like that for 20 years, and in the end, they were fully inspired.
          All this was in the foreign press - long before Ukraine.
          Long before his Munich speech.
          It's just that Europe initially went to such a result.
          My daughter studied at the Irish International School 8 years ago.
          So there already all the children "knew" that Putin is the enemy of the whole world!
          That it is he who creates all the problems on the planet and no one else.
          For 20 years we have been very methodically defame and accused of everything. We were really cornered all the time.
          and eventually got busted.
          In that corner - where to be Russian in any country except the Russian Federation - is already simply dangerous!
          Where Russians are hated!
          Any society can be reformatted in 20 years, Ukraine has been reformatted in 7 years.
          And here is 20.

          They, the Europeans, really believe that they are fighting Putinism.
          And they will give up oil and gas, wheat and the rest - and agree to live in a country where the standard of living will immediately fall by 25-30% ... And they will live.
          They have been prepared for it and they are ready for it.
          A trained person from smoked sausage can easily transfer to a quinoa.
          But only prepared in advance.
          The unprepared will revolt.
          And they have been preparing for 20 years.
          And they believe that they are now "for a just cause" Against Putinism!
          This is their current logic.
          In which they grew up and which of them there is no way to bring out.
          1. +2
            April 12 2022 21: 41
            And they will give up oil and gas, wheat and the rest - and agree to live in a country where the standard of living will immediately fall by 25-30% ... And they will live.
            And this is unlikely - about the fact that they will live with a worsening standard of living. They will hang themselves for a pfenning, and here such a bad thing. They won’t refuse anything, they will stand up and fall silent, they will tearfully ask for gas. "Geben Sie Mir bitte etwas kopeken"...
      2. +1
        April 13 2022 10: 01
        The clown power, apart from how to make the world community laugh, is no longer capable of anything .. And any contracts signed on its behalf, in a couple of months, will not even be worth the paper on which they are signed. hi
    2. +7
      April 12 2022 08: 22
      What do you want. The grandchildren of the Soviets are now in power in Germany. Look on the net for a photogram
  2. 0
    April 12 2022 04: 59
    They can deliver only with German crews ...
    there in self-propelled guns everything is in German ... Ain, zwein, dry ... Ukrainian Selyuks must also be taught the language of this Aryan race .... to read on instruments and panels and correctly perform the necessary actions. what
    And this time ... in addition, they still need to be delivered to the place of hostilities ... which is very doubtful ... in terms of a quick meeting with Iskanders and Daggers on trains and tracks at junction stations ... in general, dare the Germans on your own head ... it will backfire on you later.
    1. +4
      April 12 2022 06: 11
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Ain, Zwein, Drain... Ukrainian Selyuks still need to be taught the language of this Aryan race...

      Do you think that in the 14th SS division "Galicia" commands were given on the move? If each "niht fershtein" costs several slaps in the face, even the Selyuks quickly figured out what "marschieren marsch!" means.
  3. +4
    April 12 2022 05: 11
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    teach the language of this Aryan race .... read on instruments and panels and correctly perform the necessary actions

    Moreover, there will be a maximum of three days for training. Until Iskander flew over the cluster of armored vehicles ... laughing
    1. +2
      April 12 2022 05: 19
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      Moreover, there will be a maximum of three days for training.

      It is categorically impossible to give Ukrainian warriors powerful weapons into their hands ... there is a video of a shot from a tank at a group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine walking around on the Internet ... they fired at their own people out of fright ... only meat remained.
  4. +2
    April 12 2022 05: 19
    There is already a new joke. They write that Rheinmetal shots sell 60 tankoa to dill. NATO standard!Sami Leoperds!
    But this is Leoperd-1, about which it was written back in Soviet instructions: it makes its way into the side of 14.5 ... And, hell knows where to get shells from under it, they haven’t been let in for a long time
  5. +3
    April 12 2022 05: 26
    That's what I'm talking about. You can put anything. Troops with experience are finishing off methodically, and they have 8 years of experience. Whom did they train? Well, infantry, well, artillerymen to shoot at cities ... Even their tankers didn’t differ much, they don’t need shelling, but they drape from boilers without equipment.
    Well, they will give them a panzerhaubitz. Well, they stuff them into a jar of ragouli in their own sweat. So after all, they can only blow into the barrel there - it still looks like a trembita ...
    1. +6
      April 12 2022 07: 37
      Nemchura is trolling the Binderites in this way. What two years for the supply ..... although, let the Khikhelas pay, the LDNR will take it for itself)))
      1. +1
        April 12 2022 15: 34
        Thus, the contract for the supply of PzH 2000 or RCH 155 self-propelled guns for the Ukrainian army does not make any sense.

        This is an ideal deal for the Bundes, if at least part of the money is transferred now. They will make new ones for themselves, and the old ones will already work out. drinks
  6. +3
    April 12 2022 06: 20
    However, there is nothing wrong with that. German self-propelled guns, which can be delivered only after 30 months,

    Nobody serious will say what power will be in Kyiv in 30 months. Infa -100% fake based on "nervous housewives"
  7. 0
    April 12 2022 08: 03
    Ukraine as a place for the disposal of weapons, and which is quite a motive, all European countries have increased their defense budgets, and it’s the very thing to sell illiquid assets to skakuas on credit.
    1. 0
      April 12 2022 08: 59
      Quote: Zhevlonenko
      Ukraine as a place for the disposal of weapons, and which is quite a motive, all European countries have increased their defense budgets, and it’s the very thing to sell illiquid assets to skakuas on credit.

      I wonder who will then pay off the loans? 404 as such will not be, they won’t be able to present anything to Russia ... as I understand it, it’s just a landfill where illiquid assets are dumped at the expense of gay Europeans ... it would be better if they let them go for scrap, a pair of BMW 7 can come out of one howitzer ... or three 5. .. or four 3... laughing
  8. 0
    April 12 2022 08: 13
    I am sure that by 2024 Ukraine, in its current form, will definitely not exist. And we don’t need German self-propelled guns in such numbers.
    1. +1
      April 12 2022 12: 34
      new exhibits will be brought to the Kubinka Museum. I think so
  9. Hey
    0
    April 12 2022 09: 10
    Another little nuance, 155 mm shells are not particularly chikanesh.
  10. +1
    April 12 2022 11: 11
    I didn’t even read it. Many experts agree that the pzN-2000 is the best in the world today (I’m not an expert, so I’m not going to argue and prove it). But we look at the production and sales numbers. With such expertise, the self-propelled guns should fly away like hot pies, and less than 20 pieces were made in 500 years, half abroad. If you give away your few self-propelled guns, it will knock down the entire Bundeswehr. And with such a rate of production, God forbid, by 2030 they will do as much as they do now. Of course, their defense ministers have recently been strange, to put it mildly, but there are also normal generals there. And they will surely say that such an undermining of defense capability is akin to betrayal. the Germans will give 2000 to no one, if they have not completely lost their minds.
    1. IVZ
      0
      April 19 2022 19: 47
      And suddenly they count on it. that they will not need self-propelled guns soon? There will be no one to defend against for a while.
  11. -2
    April 12 2022 11: 20
    If the delivery takes place, then the next, very logical, step will be the delivery of nuclear shells to them (otherwise howitzers will not affect the course of events) ...
    And everything will successfully roll down to the nuclear phase of WW3...
    IMHO hi
  12. +2
    April 12 2022 11: 52
    Ukraine to buy a hundred self-propelled guns PzH 2000 or RCH 155 combat vehicles unified with them
    IMHO, if they have time, they will give the PzH 2000 self-propelled guns "from stock".
    If the British do not overtake earlier, GB, as "not in itself", already promises both anti-ship missiles and armored vehicles, and it seems that the AC90 self-propelled guns are "on the way".
    Bad news, worse than tanks, especially if fire control systems give...
  13. 0
    April 12 2022 15: 00
    Something not a word about ammunition. In addition to these self-propelled guns, a constant import of ammunition will be needed, and this is also money.
    Although NATO will send junk from their warehouses.
  14. 0
    April 12 2022 16: 04
    [quoteAccording to the German press, in the foreseeable future, the armed forces of Ukraine may receive German Panzerhaubitze 2000 or RCH 155 self-propelled howitzers.] [/ quote]

    ... only the Ukrainian Armed Forces have no future!
  15. 0
    April 12 2022 20: 31
    for the West, war is an opportunity to make money. for nothing, the same Germans won’t even let pfening suck.
    they are happy to write off the Soviet and their own "junk", of course, but they are unlikely to part so easily with new weapons that cost money.
  16. +2
    April 13 2022 01: 32
    If I were the author of the post, I would not be so focused on what will be there in two and a half years.
    In the ninety-sixth in Chechnya, too, no one could imagine that in 99 they would have to fight again
  17. -5
    April 13 2022 01: 54
    So they are already going through Poland
    https://t.me/svtvnews/6074
    1. 0
      April 13 2022 05: 25
      Are you able to distinguish between technology? This is not Pzh2000, this is Palladins and BTR M113
  18. 0
    April 13 2022 05: 23
    To whom the war, to whom the mother is dear)))
  19. 0
    April 13 2022 10: 35
    this information has not yet received official confirmation. In addition, the disclosed details cast doubt on the very possibility of implementing such plans.


    here is a screenshot from the video train is coming and it is already somewhere nearby
    voice-overs (talk) in Polish...

  20. -1
    2 July 2022 16: 11
    German self-propelled guns, which can be delivered only after 30 months, will no longer hit the battlefield.
    as usual, the author got into a mess ....