Why do Ukrainian Tochka-U missiles hit targets in Russia and the liberated part of Ukraine

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During the special operation conducted by the Russian Federation in Ukraine, there were several incidents with the missiles of the Tochka-U operational-tactical missile systems (OTRK) hitting Russian targets, including the hit on the airfield in the city of Millerovo, Rostov Region, as a result of which the at least one aircraft, as well as a hit with a fairly high probability on the large landing ship (BDK) "Orsk", unloading in the port of Berdyansk, which led to the flooding of the BDK.

Why do Ukrainian Tochka-U missiles hit targets in Russia and the liberated part of Ukraine

The consequences of a strike on the airfield in the city of Millerovo, Rostov Region


The consequences of the alleged attack of the Tochka-U OTRK on the Orsk large landing craft

Why do Tochka-U missiles hit targets on the territory of Ukraine and even on the territory of Russia?



Invulnerable "Points"


Firstly, where did the enemy still have the Tochka-U OTRK, why haven’t the Russian Armed Forces destroyed them all yet?

After the collapse of the USSR, the Ukrainian Armed Forces had 90 launchers (PU) of the Tochka-U OTRK and God knows how many missiles for them (presumably, about 800 missiles). It is extremely difficult to destroy them all, since this complex does not emit anything, it is quite easy to disguise it. The targets that needed to be hit by the RF Armed Forces, and the problems related to this issue, were mentioned in the article. Survival of military aviation on airfields under the influence of long-range precision weapons. Even if the RF Armed Forces have already destroyed 90% of the Ukrainian Tochka-U OTRKs, the remaining nine OTRKs can cause a lot of problems if used correctly by the enemy.


Ukrainian OTRK "Tochka-U". Image by Wikimedia.ru

“The number of mobile Scud OTRK launchers involved from the Iraqi side during the American operation Desert Storm was only 14 pieces, another 78 launchers were either dummies or decommissioned Luna missiles. The coalition pilots claimed that during the war they destroyed about 100 Scud OTRKs, but in reality, not a single installation was hit.


OTRK "Elbrus" ("Scud"). Image by wikipedia.org

It is worth recalling once again that at the beginning of the special operation, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had 90 units of real Tochka-U OTRK.

Secondly, target designation - how do Ukrainian OTRK crews find targets, are they really “invulnerable Bayraktars”?

No, the Ukrainian crews of the Tochka-U OTRK receive target designation from the United States and its allies. It is the information transmitted by our real enemies that gives them an understanding of what targets can be attacked in the reach zone. If it were not for the United States and its allies, the Ukrainian OTRK would not have hit anywhere, except for stationary civilian or military targets with coordinates known in advance.

And thirdly, why do Ukrainian missiles reach their targets, why are they not destroyed by anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) S-400, S-300V4 and others?

This issue is worth considering in more detail.

Types of missiles of the Tochka-U complex in service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine


Apart from missiles with nuclear and chemical warheads (BC), OTRK "Tochka-U" can use missiles 9M79F (9M79-1F), 9M79K (9M79-1K) and 9M79R (9M79FR, 9M79-1FR), respectively, with high-explosive, cluster and anti-radar warheads. The height of the trajectory of the Tochka-U missiles, depending on the distance to the target, is from 6 to 26 kilometers, the firing range is from 15 to 120 kilometers.

It is not known with what warheads the Ukrainian Armed Forces have missiles, they definitely have 9N123F high-explosive fragmentation warhead missiles, most likely, there are missiles with 9N123N cluster warheads, the presence of anti-radar missiles with 9N123F-R warheads, with passive guidance on radar radiation sources (radar), as well as their effectiveness against modern radars is in question.

Judging by the fact that so far there has been no information about the attack on the radar stations of Russian anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) by Tochka-U missiles, the Ukrainian Armed Forces most likely do not have 9M79R (9M79FR, 9M79-1FR) missiles. Either they really are not capable of working against modern radars, or Ukrainian specialists do not know how to use them correctly. Nevertheless, it cannot be ruled out that a certain number of 9M79R (9M79FR, 9M79-1FR) missiles are still available in the warehouses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and they are saved for some kind of action, to inflict maximum reputational damage on the RF Armed Forces.

9M79K (9M79-1K) missiles with cluster warheads could potentially be available in Ukraine. Undermining such a warhead occurs at an altitude of 2 meters to increase the affected area. Accordingly, at this height and below this missile no longer makes sense to shoot down, more precisely, there is nothing to shoot down. When detonated, a cluster warhead scatters 250 fragmentation submunitions, each of which contains 50 kilograms of explosives (BB) and 1,45 fragments - a total of 316 fragments, the affected area is up to seven hectares.

And finally, 9M79F (9M79-1F) missiles with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead, which most likely form the basis of the ammunition load of the Ukrainian Tochka-U OTRK, are blown up by a radio fuse at a height of 20 meters and contain 162,5 kilograms of explosives 14 fragments, hitting everything on an area of ​​​​up to three hectares.

The flight time to the maximum range for the Tochka-U missile is 136 seconds, that is, in real combat conditions, depending on the firing range, it will most likely be about 90-120 seconds.

It can be assumed that even with the timely detection of launching missiles of the Tochka-U OTRK, their defeat occurs already at the final stage of the flight, when the missile moves towards the target on a descending section of the trajectory. And here a problem may arise.

The fact is that Russian anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAMs) hit the target with a fragmentation field, and the energy of the fragments could potentially be insufficient to ensure the detonation of the warhead of the Tochka-U missile.

Thus, even a missile hit by missiles reaches the target, albeit with a loss of accuracy, is undermined and causes significant damage due to the rather high power of the warhead. Moreover, most often Ukrainian OTRK try to hit areal targets, the accuracy of hitting which is not critical when hitting - airfields, cities with civilians, and so on.

Is it possible to destroy the warheads of the Tochka-U OTRK missiles with guarantee? Yes, but this requires missiles with a direct hit on the target, that is, the so-called hit-to-kill. It is believed that in order to implement the method of hitting a target using the hit-to-kill method, missiles must be equipped with an active radar homing head (ARLGSN) and a gas-dynamic control belt, which makes it possible to ensure the highest maneuverability of missiles in the final guidance area. It is stated that the latest 9M96E and 9M96E2 missiles, which can be used by the S-350 Vityaz air defense system and the S-400 air defense system, have this capability, but are they available in the ammunition load of the air defense systems used during the special operation conducted in Ukraine?


S-400 SAM launcher. Image

On the other hand, it is assumed that other Russian missiles of the S-300V and S-400 air defense systems, which do not have the ability to hit targets with a direct hit, have quite powerful high-explosive fragmentation warheads that are capable of destroying the warhead of an OTRK missile or even a ballistic missile with a high probability medium range.


ZRK S-300V. Image by wikipedia.org

However, even if the powerful missiles of Russian long-range air defense systems are capable of destroying the warheads of Tochka-U missiles, it is necessary that these missiles still be in the coverage area of ​​Russian long-range air defense systems.

Distances and probabilities


The thing is that working at a maximum range, for example, 400 kilometers (for the S-400 air defense system), is possible only for certain types of aerodynamic targets. To hit ballistic targets, the range is limited to 40–60 km.

Thus, in order to completely close the Russian border from attacks by the Ukrainian Tochka-U OTRK, it will take at least a dozen S-400 air defense systems, or even more.


Approximate range of defeat OTRK "Tochka-U" (marked in red) and the range of destruction of ballistic missiles using S-400 air defense systems (highlighted in green)

Can Russia deploy such a number of air defense systems on the border with Ukraine? Most likely, yes - the number of purchased S-400 air defense systems allows this.

Will it be implemented? Possibly given recent events.

Why hasn't this been done before? It was probably assumed that most of the Tochka-U OTRK would be destroyed at the very beginning of the war, or maybe it was thought that the entire special operation would last one or two weeks, as mentioned above. And it is possible that the required number of air defense systems was deployed, but, according to the theory of probability, there has never been and never will be a one hundred percent probability of intercepting all attacking enemy ammunition.

OTRK missiles miss not only Russian air defense systems, but also the American Patriot air defense systems, the Israeli Iron Dome and others. Many people remember how during the American operation "Desert Storm" Iraqi OTRK "Elbrus" or "Scud" according to NATO classification were practically not affected by the American Patriot air defense systems, despite the comprehensive information superiority of the USA and Israel.

By the way, the inability of the warhead of the Patriot air defense missile system to destroy the warhead of the Elbrus OTRK missiles is mentioned as a possible reason, as a result of which even the damaged Elbrus OTRK missiles reached their targets and inflicted significant damage to them.

“Modern Israeli research suggests that not a single Iraqi OTRK Scud (R-17) missile was shot down over Israel. Even close detonations of the Patriot air defense system did not destroy the warheads of the R-17 missiles, but only deflected them from the course. The use of R-17 missiles is considered one of the main successes of the Iraqi army in the Gulf War.

One more assumption can be put forward. Potentially, the US electronic intelligence satellites can determine whether the radars of Russian long-range air defense systems are active or they are turned off, for example, to carry out the necessary regulatory procedures. Given the saturation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with American satellite communication terminals, the United States can notify its "partners" about the optimal moment for striking, in terms of the absence of opposition from Russian air defense systems.

Conclusions


To minimize the likelihood of strikes by the Tochka-U OTRK, the Russian Armed Forces had to use a significant number of long-range air defense systems along the entire perimeter of the border with Ukraine, as well as in the liberated territories.

Even if this condition is met, it is impossible to guarantee a XNUMX% interception of Tochka-U OTRK missiles, both due to the non-XNUMX% probability of intercepting an OTRK ballistic missile, and due to the likelihood that the warhead of a downed missile can survive if its missiles are hit.

No quantity and quality of air defense systems is capable of 100% eliminating the breakthrough of air defense missiles or aviation enemy, it is only possible to minimize the probability of this event.

Nevertheless, taking into account not only the military, but also the informational significance of the impact of the strikes of the Ukrainian Tochka-U missiles, it is necessary to take all measures to prevent breakthroughs of the Russian air defense by building up a group of long-range air defense systems, ensuring mutual spatial and temporal overlap of detection zones and hitting ballistic targets.

In the context of the foregoing, the declared defeat of the Russian large landing craft or aircraft at the airfield in the city of Millerovo, Rostov Region, is more likely the luck of the Armed Forces of Ukraine than a systemic advantage. The most important role in this "luck" was played not by the skills or valor of the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but by the effectiveness of the system created in the USSR weapons - OTRK "Tochka-U", and the most powerful information support provided by the United States to the armed forces of Ukraine.
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  1. +32
    April 9 2022 05: 07
    And we also need planes and / or AWACS drones to control both the airspace and the ground situation.
    But we simply don’t have drones, and there are only 3 old A50 aircraft in the combat area, although U.
    And it's almost nothing.
    1. +5
      April 9 2022 06: 53
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      and there are only 3 old A50 aircraft in the combat area, although U.

      Where is the data from? I mean, there are at least 50 A-15s in service. Half of the threatened area may well be transferred.
      And the best way out, of course, is to move the border out of reach.
      1. +2
        April 9 2022 07: 48
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Where is the data from? I mean, there are at least 50 A-15s in service

        That's right, there are only 15 pieces for the whole huge country. And also Syria.
        And the data from the open press, there was such information that exactly 3 pieces were seen in the vicinity of Ukraine.
        1. 0
          April 9 2022 07: 55
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          That's right, there are only 15 pieces for the whole huge country. And also Syria.
          Not happy. But what we have, we have. And about Syria - I don’t remember at all about AWACS there (but you never know).

          Quote: Jacket in stock
          And the data from the open press, there was such information that exactly 3 pieces were seen in the vicinity of Ukraine.
          It was a very long time ago (a week in our time is already a long time ago) that now, in connection with the shelling and a breakthrough to Belgorod, we do not know.
          1. -20
            April 9 2022 08: 26
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            And about Syria - I don’t remember about AWACS there at all (but you never know)

            There the Syrians shot down our AWACS plane
            1. +14
              April 9 2022 08: 39
              Quote: Pilat2009
              There the Syrians shot down our AWACS plane

              IL-20 is not an AWACS aircraft.
          2. +5
            April 9 2022 11: 09
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            And about Syria - I don’t remember at all about AWACS there (but you never know).

            There were A-50s in Syria - there are pictures from April-May 2017.

            1. +1
              April 9 2022 14: 14
              Quote: Alexey RA
              There were A-50s in Syria - there are pictures from April-May 2017.

              I do not argue, but when it was. hi
      2. +3
        April 9 2022 14: 11
        "out of reach" is the most reliable.
        There is no need to rely on air defense systems. Aviation is guaranteed not to destroy the RU. American pilots tried to destroy the "Scud", and destroyed dummies
    2. +36
      April 9 2022 09: 13
      Given the saturation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with American satellite communication terminals, the United States
      Where is our vaunted unparalleled electronic warfare? Where are all these beauties. levers and other parts? Why does the enemy easily use not only American secure communications, but also civilian drones? Air defense simply did not begin to deploy at the beginning of the conflict because it is expensive! And a small number of aviation is expensive for the same reason! Like many other things, it’s expensive .. Now I hope, having generously paid with blood for another incompetence of the General Staff, conclusions will be drawn ..
      1. -1
        April 9 2022 17: 21
        Quote: max702
        Given the saturation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with American satellite communication terminals, the United States
        Where is our vaunted unparalleled electronic warfare? Where are all these beauties. levers and other parts? Why does the enemy easily use not only American secure communications, but also civilian drones? Air defense simply did not begin to deploy at the beginning of the conflict because it is expensive! And a small number of aviation is expensive for the same reason! Like many other things, it’s expensive .. Now I hope, having generously paid with blood for another incompetence of the General Staff, conclusions will be drawn ..


        At the Parade on May 9
      2. -4
        April 9 2022 21: 18
        Quote: max702
        Air defense simply did not begin to deploy at the beginning of the conflict because it is expensive! And a small number of aviation is expensive for the same reason! Like so many other things, it's expensive.

        Let's produce I-16 and IL-2 ... cheaply, there is practically no need to teach pilots, again, stealth (I-16) - there is only one iron engine, Stingers will not be brought ...
        Yes, let's do it?
        It's easy to shout about incompetence - the question is where to get money for the army ...
        1. +4
          April 10 2022 07: 21
          It is necessary to take the oligarchs and other "citizens" for Faberge. Here's the money for you. Otherwise, the cost of yachts is more than the cost of the fleet. And how much money was taken out? Some calls to return and "amnesties" are worth something. As they dragged from Russia, they drag it. And everything is good and blissful for some "citizens" in the country.
          1. +6
            April 10 2022 10: 56
            Quote: Taimen
            We need to take the oligarchs and other "citizens" for Faberge. Here's the money for you

            You can take anyone for Faberge ... the question is, the assembly of any rocket, aircraft, tank is limited by the production cycle time. And more than there is, it will not be possible to collect
          2. -2
            April 10 2022 18: 16
            Quote: Taimen
            We need to take the oligarchs and other "citizens" for Faberge. Here's the money for you.
            -Do you think the oligarchs have trillions in their accounts? They are billionaires in terms of the cost of factories and other things ....

            Quote: Taimen
            And then the cost of yachts is more than the cost of the fleet.

            Furgal once put up for sale the yacht of the regional government. Has anyone bought it?
        2. +5
          April 10 2022 08: 04
          They just donated 300 billion .. Surely there is no money? Or do you not feel sorry for strangers, but feel sorry for your own?
          1. -1
            April 16 2022 15: 38
            It seems like even 350 yards !!!! and a cherry !!! on the cake, the leader left the naebulin for 3 terms ..... this is epic in my opinion !!!!
        3. 0
          April 11 2022 09: 43
          Quote: your1970
          It's easy to shout about incompetence - the question is where to get money for the army ...


          The military-industrial complex has been flooded with money for the last 20 years.
          1. -2
            April 11 2022 12: 42
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Quote: your1970
            It's easy to shout about incompetence - the question is where to get money for the army ...


            The military-industrial complex has been flooded with money for the last 20 years.

            Sure? And then here many complain about the underfunding of a strong military-industrial complex .......
            1. +3
              April 11 2022 14: 50
              Quote: your1970
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Quote: your1970
              It's easy to shout about incompetence - the question is where to get money for the army ...


              The military-industrial complex has been flooded with money for the last 20 years.

              Sure? And then here many complain about the underfunding of a strong military-industrial complex .......


              They are like dancers...
              Huge amounts of money have been fully spent on the MIC 2020 programs.
              Fully spent.
              And the results in terms of the number of ships and submarines received, all kinds of Armats, 5th generation aircraft and other bombers, and in comparison with the number of planned ones - we see perfectly
              150 aircraft each, 2000 armats and ships, we do not have enough seas.
              And transport workers with AWACS and tankers ...

              I highly recommend everyone to look at the plans, at the contracts, and at the court cases...

              Why was the state coughing up, getting some little things, although not on time or late, and sometimes they didn’t receive anything ...

              Look in retrospect, 15 years ago.

              I understand that not everyone is interested.
              1. 0
                April 11 2022 16: 12
                Quote: SovAr238A
                Huge amounts of money have been fully spent on the MIC 2020 programs.
                Fully spent.

                Quote: SovAr238A
                The military-industrial complex has been flooded with money for the last 20 years.

                Money "in 2020" and money "for the last 20 years" are slightly different things. In 2000, 2 repaired engines on MI-24 - the holiday was already in the Moscow Region .......
                The technique more or less went after 2010.
                What was stolen - alas, was ...
                1. +1
                  April 12 2022 11: 33
                  Quote: your1970
                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Huge amounts of money have been fully spent on the MIC 2020 programs.
                  Fully spent.

                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  The military-industrial complex has been flooded with money for the last 20 years.

                  Money "in 2020" and money "for the last 20 years" are slightly different things. In 2000, 2 repaired engines on MI-24 - the holiday was already in the Moscow Region .......
                  The technique more or less went after 2010.
                  What was stolen - alas, was ...


                  The Russian State Program for the Development of Arms for 2011-2020 is a program of public procurement for defense needs in the corresponding period, approved by the President of Russia D.A. Medvedev. December 31, 2010 and replaced the partially implemented SAP-2015.

                  As a result of the program, it was supposed to increase the level of equipping the army with new equipment from 10% to 70-80%, including up to 100% for anti-aircraft missile forces. The volume of financing under the new program amounted to 19 trillion rubles (for comparison, the amount under SAP-2015 was 5 trillion rubles).
      3. +4
        April 10 2022 01: 34
        Quote: max702
        Where is our vaunted unparalleled electronic warfare?

        Electronic warfare of a surgical nature requires a superior (over the enemy) element base (computing power).
        Therefore, almost all Russian-made electronic warfare rely on suppression power - it's more like a sledgehammer, not a scalpel. They are designed mainly for the case of a total war, against a technologically superior enemy, to "blind" him along with himself, leveling the possibilities. (And a small part - against civilian technologies - to cut off cellular communications in the zone of capture of gangs, for example. In fact, these are police systems.)
        These electronic warfare systems hit areas, jamming everything, including their own, and this is justified only if the damage to the enemy is more critical than to their own troops.
        To use the same against the Armed Forces of Ukraine is a shot in the foot.
        1. -3
          April 10 2022 08: 05
          So let's write down the electronic warfare is useless ..
          1. +7
            April 10 2022 09: 36
            Quote: max702
            So let's write down the electronic warfare is useless ..

            He is not useless, it's just that the media inflated the image of a "wunderwaffe" out of him, but this is objectively not the case.
        2. 0
          April 11 2022 10: 46
          These electronic warfare systems hit areas, jamming everything, including their own, and this is justified only if the damage to the enemy is more critical than to their own troops.

          well, write nonsense. You are talking about only one type of electronic warfare - frequency suppression. Well, this is 15% of everything that is included in the capabilities of electronic warfare. Moreover, suppression can occur in a selected frequency segment.
          1. -1
            April 11 2022 12: 43
            Quote: Ka-52
            You are talking about only one type of electronic warfare - frequency suppression.

            But is something else needed to suppress the communications of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?

            Quote: Ka-52
            Well, this is 15% of everything that is included in the capabilities of electronic warfare.

            Another adept wunderwaffe? To apply the remaining "85%", you need to have WHERE to apply them. Targets are needed, and if the enemy is a Papuan with a spear, then your EW is useless against him.

            Quote: Ka-52
            Moreover, suppression can occur in a selected frequency segment.

            Maybe, but here we are again returning to the element base. If the microcircuit in the walkie-talkie with the anti-interference function is more powerful and faster than in the electronic warfare installation, then this walkie-talkie cannot be suppressed, it will adjust FASTER than the electronic warfare will issue new interference algorithms. These are the laws of physics, you can't get away from it.
            And I think it's no secret to anyone that in terms of micro-electronics, Russia is still lagging behind, even from China. Hence the decision - to bet on power and non-selective suppression immediately across the entire spectrum.

            Quote: Ka-52
            well, write nonsense

            In the eyes of the uninformed, no doubt. fellow
            1. 0
              April 11 2022 12: 48
              If the microcircuit in the walkie-talkie with the anti-interference function is more powerful and faster than in the electronic warfare installation, then this walkie-talkie cannot be suppressed, it will adjust FASTER than the electronic warfare will issue new interference algorithms

              with this level of knowledge, you should not have written this
              In the eyes of the uninformed, no doubt.
    3. +5
      April 10 2022 01: 12
      OTRK missiles pass not only Russian air defense systems, but also American Patriot air defense systems, Israeli "Iron Dome"...

      After this phrase, one can safely attribute everything said by the author to his personal fabrications of an amateurish level.
      He simply does not understand the topic.
      ZhK against OTRK, it's like a 6B47 helmet against a tank BOPS.
      wassat

      “Modern Israeli research suggests that not a single Iraqi Scud OTRK missile was shot down over Israel.

      The author does not want to provide a link to these "studies"? What kind of bad habit is it to make allegations? fellow

      Conclusions

      Thanks, Cap. More obvious conclusions are probably physically impossible to draw. lol
    4. -2
      April 11 2022 06: 37
      And we also need planes and / or AWACS drones, for the built control of both airspace,

      Are you now on duty at "everything is lost"? wink in the context of an article about OTRK, what is the need for aircraft and AWACS drones? Of course, they can be an additional way of fixing the fact of launching an OTP, but information about the launch, along with calculations of flight trajectories, is issued by any early warning radar. There are plenty of koi around.
      and there are only 3 old A50 aircraft in the combat area, although U.
      And it's almost nothing.

      Excuse me, but what kind of troops are you in the reserve? If from motorized riflemen or warrant officers of the fuel and lubricants warehouse, then it is quite excusable. The A-50 has a ground target detection range of up to 300 km. Taking into account the theater of operations, even 3 vehicles are theoretically enough to conduct reconnaissance
    5. 0
      April 16 2022 19: 01
      Jacket in stock. In Ukraine, there is such a saying - they don't give crying. It's a little unclear that they can't shoot back? So long as they can, as long as there is an opportunity, they shoot like that. When they can't, they won't.
  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. -25
      April 9 2022 07: 20
      And ho khly then what do you have to do with it? Listen, "anika-warrior" with a smoked history textbook, if you are so "dashing" or stupid, then go and destroy Ukrainians in the Southern Federal District, they live there, and not in (in) Ukraine. I look at such figures and understand that the entire volume of their skull is occupied by the tongue with its appendages.
      1. +5
        April 9 2022 08: 04
        in the Southern Federal District, they live there,

        Well, more about this.
        1. +5
          April 9 2022 15: 29
          Well, more about this.

          ...somehow we drove with friends to a village in the Voronezh region, to stock up on water in a selmag. I hear Ukrainian speech, I ask a woman: "Do Ukrainians live here?" She even answers me with some pride: "We are not Ukrainians, we are Ukrainians!"
          It was in the 1980s.
      2. +11
        April 9 2022 09: 36
        We have a similar accent in the south with the inhabitants of the Crimea, so why are Russians in Crimea and Ukrainians in the Krasnodar Territory or Rostov Region? My friend living in Belgorod has a wife from Kharkov, if we compare her and my dialect, then I am Ukrainian and she is Russian nonsense to judge nationality by her dialect.
        1. -6
          April 9 2022 10: 28
          My friend living in Belgorod has a wife from Kharkov, if we compare her and my dialect, then I am Ukrainian and she is Russian nonsense to judge nationality by her dialect.

          As a person with a Ukrainian surname explained to me, kho_hol is not a nationality, but a mentality and a way of life. In the same way, I define furry vyruses - kats_apov. In Ukraine, there is a war between Ukrainians and Russians (ours) against khokh_lov and ka_tsapov (uk_ry).
          1. +6
            April 9 2022 12: 53
            He misunderstood you. Hoh ol is not a nationality, but an estate. Khokhlami was called the Zaporizhian Cossacks for the tradition of wearing settlers. Don Cossacks are Russian, therefore all Russian Don Cossacks, you will not argue this. If you don't know history, you haven't studied social science, that's your problem, i.e. lack of normal, systematic basic education. To identify the inhabitants of Ukraine with Ukrainians is simply utter nonsense. They are now shouting that they are of the Cossack family. They are of Kizyatsky family, not Cossack. Catherine II resettled the Zaporizhian Cossacks to the Kuban and the banks of the Azov. Who refused to move was transferred to the category of state serfs. Khokhly in the Kuban, in the Rostov and Volgograd regions. In (in) Ukraine, with the exception of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, there are solid Selyuk-farmers with the mentality of Khataskrayniks. That is why such a confrontation between Donetsk and Lugansk on the one hand and the Selyuks, Vuyks and other farmer gopota. So there is no need to carry garbage about Ukrainians, Alexander Zakharchenko was a representative of this class, like the famous Babai. If you don’t know something, it’s better to keep silent, you’ll pass for the smart ones.
            1. +3
              April 9 2022 13: 57
              Hoh ol is not a nationality, but an estate. Khokhlami was called the Zaporizhian Cossacks for the tradition of wearing settlers.

              Well no. The Cossack is an estate. And ho-hol is a nickname (drive). I strongly doubt that the Cossacks liked it.

              Don Cossacks are Russian, therefore all Russian Don Cossacks, you will not argue this.

              The Cossacks never considered themselves Russians. They have always considered themselves a special caste. What Don, what Zaporozhye. The latter cannot even be attributed to Ukrainians, because nationally they were a real rabble: Russians, Ukrainians, Greeks, Armenians, Serbs, Croats and many other bloodlines.
              The national composition of the first Cossacks was unusually colorful and diverse. These could be small detachments of deserters from the army of some khan, but gangs of fugitives from the Russian principalities also appeared. At first, all these small communities were mono-ethnic, and, probably, were at enmity with each other, but gradually the process of their merging and unification began. They were replenished mainly by people who, for some reason, were forced to flee from their native places.
            2. +3
              April 9 2022 15: 37
              Khokhly in the Kuban, in the Rostov and Volgograd regions

              They forgot Voronezh, they also live there since ancient times. And they speak surzhik.
          2. 0
            April 16 2022 19: 03
            Written by Taras Shevchenko - It is better to be ruined with a Muscovite, chym with a crested knight.
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      1. +1
        April 9 2022 09: 07
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        It was just normal to prepare for such an operation

        Any flawlessly prepared military operation, in the course of execution, is faced with the need to adjust plans. At the end of the military operation, they will conduct a "debriefing" and conclusions will be drawn. hi
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  3. +9
    April 9 2022 06: 35
    No need to attribute the Americans. Point-U does not have a homing system. On the day of shooting, it is enough to enter the coordinates of the target. They themselves showed on TV how the ships in Berdyansk are being unloaded. A day later, a rocket flew there ...
    And the zetinchiks are great for shooting down these missiles. Not always perfect, of course, but the goal is difficult. It is not worth discussing now what kind of missiles they are doing this with. The enemy reads everything and draws conclusions.
    1. -4
      April 9 2022 06: 47
      Quote: ism_ek
      No need to attribute the Americans. Point-U does not have a homing system.

      And who gave them the data, the coordinates?!
      1. +7
        April 9 2022 08: 33
        Google maps.
        It's almost that simple
        :(
        1. -4
          April 9 2022 08: 38
          Quote: kytx
          Google maps.
          It's almost that simple
          :(

          What, maps are updated at least once a day? I strongly doubt it. But data from reconnaissance satellites can arrive around the clock.
          1. +8
            April 10 2022 01: 47
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            What, maps are updated at least once a day?

            Do stationary objects (such as a pier) drift? Change their coordinates? wassat
            The latitude and longitude, for example, of the Eiffel Tower, has not changed for the last 135 years, and its coordinates can be entered into the missile seeker even on a paper map from the times of the WWI. fellow
            1. -2
              April 10 2022 09: 40
              Quote: And Us Rat
              Do stationary objects (such as a pier) drift? Change their coordinates?

              Was the BDK welded to the pier and concreted? And let me remind you that maps and GPS for civilians are RUDE.
              1. +1
                April 10 2022 13: 12
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Was the BDK welded to the pier and concreted?

                And he dangled at the pier a kilometer to the left, a kilometer to the right? Knowing where the STATIONARY pier is, in my opinion, even a trained chimpanzee can take an amendment to 10-20m.

                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                And let me remind you that maps and GPS for civilians are RUDE.

                You are apparently stuck in the USSR. In the rest of the world, maps are printed accurately, without the intended distortions. And to distort the MULTILAYER satellite photo of Google, for the sake of it is not clear why - in general, the height of insanity. And the accuracy of the ZHPS, in the event of a hit on large targets, does not play a role. When the target is 100+ meters, it doesn’t matter if the accuracy is centimeter or meter. It is difficult to miss, especially since the old Soviet equipment does not use ZhPS.

                Include logic at least sometimes before getting into an argument for the sake of an argument.
                1. -1
                  April 10 2022 13: 44
                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  Include logic at least sometimes before getting into an argument for the sake of an argument.
                  Same claim.

                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  And he dangled at the pier a kilometer to the left, a kilometer to the right? Knowing where the STATIONARY pier is, in my opinion, even a trained chimpanzee can take an amendment to 10-20m.
                  Do you think that the pier is slightly longer than the ship? In vain. The pier in the port is not a bridge for you on the Gryaznukha River.

                  But of course, if you imagine that a 160 kg warhead can take out everything within a radius of 200 meters, then yes, you can simply aim at the middle of an almost kilometer long pier.
                  And a miss of 50 meters to the side of the ship means a miss, the ship is not square, for your information. In general, enough about your understanding of the matter.

                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  And to distort the MULTILAYER satellite photo of Google, for the sake of it is not clear why - in general, the height of insanity.
                  The binding to the coordinates has been coarsened, and not the map itself. And the requirement for the GPS signal initially assumed a roughening of the accuracy for civilians by about 100 meters. Now the requirements may have changed.

                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  When the target is 100+ meters, it doesn’t matter if the accuracy is centimeter or meter.
                  Once again clear with your knowledge.

                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  It is difficult to miss, especially since the old Soviet equipment does not use ZhPS.
                  And you write something else about logic, hand face! How are the coordinates of the target now calculated, the coordinates of the launcher are determined ?! Don't you want to say that the ukrovoyen are manually determined?

                  And yet, even if the coordinates on Google maps are ideal, then a ship that stays for about a day on this map will still not be visible in real time. We found out that there was a ship, albeit on a tip from the phone, gave a rough target designation to the "Tochka", conducted additional reconnaissance from the nearest satellite and immediately gave an accurate reference. Everything, start.
                  1. +6
                    April 10 2022 23: 29
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Same claim.

                    No need to parrot.

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Do you think that the pier is slightly longer than the ship?

                    I don't think so, I live 2 kilometers from the port. And where each ship stands can be seen through binoculars. Or from a drone, I drove mine over the port several times. Correcting the coordinates is not a problem for anyone who knows how to work with a map even a little.

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    But of course, if you imagine that a 160 kg warhead takes out everything within a radius of 200 meters

                    I don't have to imagine, over the years of service I have seen the work of a variety of ammunition, from a grenade to a half-ton air bomb. I know how it works.

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    And a miss of 50 meters to the side of the ship means a miss

                    Oil is oil and water is wet. request
                    Thanks, Cap. And what is the connection?

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    And the requirement for the GPS signal initially assumed a roughening of the accuracy for civilians by about 100 meters

                    Buy a smartphone and open a Google navigator, develop your delusions. Accuracy +\- 5 meters.

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Once again clear with your knowledge.

                    Aplomb and amateurism is a bad combination.

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    The target coordinates are now how they are calculated

                    Like this:


                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    a ship that stays for about a day on this map will still not be visible in real time.

                    Once again I repeat the question, is he crawling along the pier? Like a caterpillar on a branch?

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    hand face!

                    Fully reflects your adjustment of the arguments to the desired.

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    We found out that there was a ship, albeit on a tip from the phone, gave a rough target designation to the "Tochka", conducted additional reconnaissance from the nearest satellite and immediately gave an accurate reference. Everything, start.

                    Additional reconnaissance from a satellite is unnecessary show-off, the pier will not crawl away overnight, binoculars, a map, a ruler and a pencil (if performed by pensioners) are enough.
                    1. -6
                      April 11 2022 03: 47
                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      Same claim.
                      No need to parrot.
                      And what is wrong? I also think your logic is flawed.
                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      I don't think so, I live 2 kilometers from the port. And where each ship stands can be seen through binoculars. Or from a drone, I drove mine over the port several times. Correcting the coordinates is not a problem for anyone who knows how to work with a map even a little.
                      All this only works if the port is visible, and you can drive a drone over it.


                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      I don't have to imagine, over the years of service I have seen the work of a variety of ammunition, from a grenade to a half-ton air bomb. I know how it works.
                      Those. do you "know" that 160 kg of explosives not even 100, but 50 meters from the ship can seriously damage it?


                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      another miss of 50 meters to the side of the ship means a miss
                      Oil is oil and water is wet. request
                      Thanks, Cap. And what is the connection?

                      What don't you see? Well, I’ll chew it: even if the port is visible, then without a view from above or a rangefinder it’s impossible to accurately determine the position of the ship on the SIDE of the pier, the ship can be on one side or the other of the 250-300 meter pier, or even be taken away from the wall. But of course, you "know" that a miss of 50 meters for 160 kg of explosives is pah.


                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      Buy a smartphone and open a Google navigator, develop your delusions. Accuracy +\- 5 meters.
                      That's just this accuracy smartphones give out based on the position of the antennas of the cellular network, for your information. But even so, I wrote:
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      Now the requirements may have changed.



                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      Once again clear with your knowledge.
                      Aplomb and amateurism is a bad combination.
                      I don't see any deep knowledge either.


                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      The target coordinates are now how they are calculated
                      Like this:
                      Well thanks for enlightening me. Who wrote the comment above?
                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      It is difficult to miss, especially since the old Soviet equipment does not use ZhPS.

                      And why such accuracy in the picture? Isn't it with JPS? And you write something else about logic.

                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      Once again I repeat the question, is he crawling along the pier? Like a caterpillar on a branch?
                      Hand face! Rearranging ships and ships! Rearrange even interrupting work. And a Google map of a year old, but at least a day ago, it won’t show! Only the coordinates received by additional intelligence, well, transmitted by an agent who with impunity and calmly drives drones, looks through the entire port from all sides without interrupting the broadcast for a minute and has a rangefinder.

                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      Fully reflects your adjustment of the arguments to the desired.
                      The hand meets the face again, but harder. laughing


                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      Additional reconnaissance from the satellite is unnecessary show-off, the pier will not crawl away overnight
                      See above about boats that are not nailed to the pier.
                      1. +2
                        April 11 2022 10: 23
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        All this only works if the port is visible, and you can drive a drone over it.

                        And is it enclosed by a wall up to space? What does "if possible" mean?

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        even

                        Where is it taking you? It was originally about "Orsk". And you started - "if so anyhow" ... In theory, the universe can collapse.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        REPLACE ships

                        Is it for you to shuffle the cards? It takes half a day. And then, this is done in rare cases, due to the infrastructural features of the port, since this is an extra expense of money.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Only the coordinates received by additional intelligence, well, transmitted by an agent who with impunity and calmly drives drones, looks through the entire port from all sides without interrupting the broadcast for a minute and has a rangefinder.

                        Have you watched spy movies?

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        boats that are not nailed to the pier.

                        They are moored, which is almost the same thing. Do not confuse with a ship in the raid.
                      2. -2
                        April 11 2022 11: 34
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        And is it enclosed by a wall up to space? What does "if possible" mean?
                        Those. Do you imagine that a drone can be driven over the port in wartime by anyone and how they want? And that normally cellular communication should not be jammed?

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Where is it taking you? It was originally about "Orsk". And you started - "if so anyhow" ... In theory, the universe can collapse.
                        Okay, specifically, the BDK was visible from the shore from the city. Negligence of the Navy services on the face.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Is it for you to shuffle the cards? It takes half a day. And then, this is done in rare cases, due to the infrastructural features of the port, since this is an extra expense of money.
                        And with ships everything is easier in this case, they don’t count money, and transferring a hundred meters to other cranes could save the BDK. Negligence of the Navy services on the face.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Have you watched spy movies?
                        I just developed your idea. Because your thought implies the complete incapacity of the fleet and port security services ..

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        They are moored, which is almost the same thing. Do not confuse with a ship in the raid
                        Those. do you think that re-mooring takes many hours? Yes, this is the norm!
                      3. +2
                        April 11 2022 13: 00
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Those. Do you imagine that a drone can be driven over the port in wartime by anyone and how they want?

                        And who will stop him? If there is no electronic warfare, then there is nothing to shoot down a plastic drone weighing 250 grams.
                        And you don’t run into electronic warfare everywhere.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And that normally cellular communication should not be jammed?

                        Not normal, but ideal. And fighting is always a mess, even if the preparation for them was the standard. Those who have not participated will not understand.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        specifically, the BDK was viewed from the shore from the city. Negligence of the Navy services on the face.

                        And what could they do? Cover it with a sheet?
                        There is no missile defense, the S-400 cannot be pulled to the front line, and it is also not a guarantee. What other options?

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        with ships everything is easier in this case, money is not considered

                        You write nonsense, do you know how much an hour of work of a port tug costs? And there are 2 or more of them should work.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        I just developed your idea. Because your thought implies the complete incapacity of the fleet and port security services ..

                        You seem to be a purely civilian person. For several years after the army, I worked in various security services. Everything depends on resources, infrastructure and personnel. If there are not enough of them, then at least break into the British flag, a miracle will not happen. And the enemy is extremely rarely a fool, and he never neglects to identify weaknesses.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Those. do you think that re-mooring takes many hours?

                        At least 30-40 minutes, in ideal conditions, 100% tugs, perfect weather and in a completely empty port. In reality, this takes hours, so the mooring place is calculated in advance, even for military transports. The BDK is not a patrol boat, and not even a corvette. This is considered a full-fledged cargo ship.
                      4. -2
                        April 11 2022 15: 00
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        And who will stop him? If there is no electronic warfare, then there is nothing to shoot down a plastic drone weighing 250 grams. And you don’t run into electronic warfare everywhere.

                        I will repeat your words laughing
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        You are apparently stuck in the USSR.

                        already full of EM guns of different designs and manufacturers

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        You write nonsense, do you know how much an hour of work of a port tug costs? And there are 2 or more of them should work.

                        The hauling along the pier can be carried out even without the launch of the power plant. And no tugs. One or even two re-moorings are a normal technological operation and are paid by the shipowner, which is more - by the charterer. In the commercial fleet! Stupidity to write something without delving into the essence of the issue.
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        You seem to be a purely civilian person. For several years after the army, I worked in various security services. Everything depends on resources, infrastructure and personnel. If there are not enough of them, then at least break into the British flag, a miracle will not happen. And the enemy is extremely rarely a fool, and he never neglects to identify weaknesses.
                        Oh, the general words went.


                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        At least 30-40 minutes, in ideal conditions, 100% tugs, perfect weather and in a completely empty port. In reality, this takes hours, so the mooring place is calculated in advance, even for military transports. The BDK is not a patrol boat, and not even a corvette. This is considered a full-fledged cargo ship.
                        You confuse work in busy ports and directly insult deck sailors and boatswains. laughing
                        The hauling along the pier can be carried out even without the launch of the power plant. And no tugs.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        And what could they do? Cover it with a sheet?
                        Did you write something about the army? The shore and places convenient for observation are patrolled, and smokes are placed in emergency cases.


                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Everything depends on resources, infrastructure and personnel. If there are not enough of them, then at least break into the British flag, a miracle will not happen.
                        The army is not a lousy private security company, and with more or less competent planning, everything is found and applied. So we relaxed and fell in love with the naval BDK.
                        And as for Berdyansk, I’ll probably agree that the BDK could, although they are not obliged to, sink the “partners” even without target designation. If there was a hit at all with a "POINT"
                      5. +1
                        April 11 2022 18: 23
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        already full of EM guns of different designs and manufacturers

                        Completely, advertising on advertising, in all countries. Where are they in the army?

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Padding along the pier

                        Should make sense.
                        Pulling a ship to protect against OTRK is like trying to run away from a bullet.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Oh, the general words went.

                        Remind me of a mote and a log? Citizen theorist.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        The shore and places convenient for observation are patrolled

                        And famously fall into an ambush. This is not the rear, this is foreign territory, albeit nominally controlled, at best, the window between patrols is simply used. Or maybe plant calculations for all the skyscrapers and trees of the city? Do you have an infinite supply of manpower? Don't flaunt ignorance.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        smokes are put in emergency cases.

                        How do you know if it's an emergency or not? Guess? Throw a coin?

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        The army is not a lousy private security company, and with more or less competent planning, everything is found and applied.

                        Other PSCs have more resources, countries like the Baltic countries, do not underestimate them.
                      6. 0
                        April 11 2022 18: 41
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Completely, advertising on advertising, in all countries. Where are they in the army?

                        There are more serious means in the army.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Pulling a ship to protect against OTRK is like trying to run away from a bullet.
                        An offset of 100 meters, provided that the enemy is not observed, will prevent a missile not equipped with a seeker, launched according to outdated target designation, from hitting. If you do not understand this, then what kind of military experience are you writing about? It’s good that you don’t write nonsense about many hours and terribly expensive re-mooring.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Remind me of a mote and a log? Citizen theorist.
                        Those. on the basis of your words, I should believe about your certain experience? But you can't see him.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        And famously fall into an ambush. This is not the rear, this is foreign territory, albeit nominally controlled, at best, the window between patrols is simply used. Or maybe plant calculations for all the skyscrapers and trees of the city? Do you have an infinite supply of manpower? Don't flaunt ignorance.
                        You demonstrate a simply shameful level of military knowledge. As in the control over the heights, and in the organization of patrols in the occupied territory.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        How do you know if it's an emergency or not? Guess? Throw a coin?
                        The arrival at the port of a ship with valuable cargo is an emergency. Or will you insist on the terrible high cost of installing a smoke curtain?

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Other PSCs have more resources, countries like the Baltic countries, do not underestimate them.
                        There are lousy and lousy private security companies and armies, the Russian Army is not lousy. The organization of the commandant service is usually in order.
                      7. +1
                        April 11 2022 21: 28
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        There are more serious means in the army.

                        Name one.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        provided

                        How do you know if this condition is met or not? Or maybe? An army planning tactics based on "hooray" assumptions is a losing army, the Armed Forces of Ukraine as an example.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        I should

                        At least use common sense if you don't trust anyone.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        You demonstrate a simply shameful level of military knowledge. As in the control over the heights, and in the organization of patrols in the occupied territory.

                        Substantiate your allegations.
                        On points and with arguments, without personal amateurish fantasies.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        The arrival at the port of a ship with valuable cargo is an emergency.

                        AND? Moor and unload it under the smoke in 15 minutes? Or keep smokes 24/7, and walk around in gas masks? Have you tried driving a loader through a smoke screen? And the tank? And cover the whole port with smoke or just the ship? wassat

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        The Russian army is not lousy.

                        Nobody argues with that.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        The organization of the commandant service is usually in order.

                        Then why did they fall in love with the whole BDK in such an obscene way?
                      8. -1
                        April 12 2022 05: 51
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Name one.
                        Yeah, i.e. there are no electronic warfare / electronic warfare facilities at all? You no longer remember your own words:
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        And you don’t run into electronic warfare everywhere.
                        That is, there is still electronic warfare, but not everywhere. And everywhere you don't need to. And at least one in the port, at least this one: “Repellent-1”, or this one; “Rosehip-AERO”, or this one: “Borisoglebsk-2”, or damn it: R-330Zh “Resident”, “Field-21M ".
                        Did you write something about Soviet times? Are you from what, from the biblical?


                        Quote: And Us Rat

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        provided

                        How do you know if this condition is met or not? Or maybe? An army planning tactics based on "hooray" assumptions is a losing army, the Armed Forces of Ukraine as an example.
                        Unobservable condition? How to find out? Are you not aware of the control of disguise or what? What is difficult, for example, to place your observer-inspector on a high-rise?

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Substantiate your allegations.
                        On points and with arguments, without personal amateurish fantasies.

                        You seem to be unaware of patrol support mangroups, organizing radio exchanges and checking and occupying important objects (heights) for the duration of the event. So if you were a military man, then somehow you were of low flight and qualifications.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        AND? Moor and unload it under the smoke in 15 minutes? Or keep smokes 24/7, and walk around in gas masks? Have you tried driving a loader through a smoke screen? And the tank? And cover the whole port with smoke or just the ship?
                        Once again I am convinced of your low military qualifications. The veil is placed BETWEEN the enemy/observer and the object. Stupidly, if you don’t understand suddenly, boats with checkers along the coast can go at least 24 hours.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Then why did they fall in love with the whole BDK in such an obscene way?
                        Do you not understand the meaning of the word "usually"?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        With the organization of commandant service usually order.
                        This case was unusualhopefully exceptional.
                      9. +1
                        April 12 2022 10: 38
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Yeah, i.e. there are no electronic warfare / electronic warfare facilities at all? You no longer remember your own words:

                        Do not attribute to me your speculations.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        "Repellent-1", or such; "Rosehip-AERO", or such: "Borisoglebsk-2", or such a pancake: R-330Zh "Resident", "Field-21M".

                        Now specify which of the systems and how could affect the hit of the OTRK.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        What is difficult, for example, to place your observer-inspector on a high-rise?

                        And he will see every viewer, 360 degrees and tens of kilometers? Simultaneously? In a city full of civilians? In urban areas? Seriously? wassat

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        The veil is placed BETWEEN the enemy/observer and the object.

                        Thanks, Cap. wassat It remains a trifle, to understand where the observer is, and whether he exists at all.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        boats with checkers along the coast can go at least 24 hours.

                        You are a dreamer though. lol

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        This case was unusual, I hope generally exceptional.

                        Yeah, it never happened, and here it is again. lol
                      10. -1
                        April 12 2022 12: 42
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Do not attribute to me your speculations.
                        That's how you framed your idea.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        "Repellent-1", or such; "Rosehip-AERO", or such: "Borisoglebsk-2", or such a pancake: R-330Zh "Resident", "Field-21M".
                        Now specify which of the systems and how could affect the hit of the OTRK.
                        And now you are getting out, because it was about countering drones over the port.
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        And who will stop him? If there is no electronic warfare, then there is nothing to shoot down a plastic drone weighing 250 grams.
                        And you don’t run into electronic warfare everywhere.


                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        And he will see every viewer, 360 degrees and tens of kilometers? Simultaneously? In a city full of civilians? In urban areas? Seriously?
                        Port 360 gr. and tens of kilometers, seriously? What, there are also hills and buildings in the sea? It is a pity that you do not have enough knowledge to understand that Berdyansk is a flat city and the port can be viewed from far from everywhere. And observers-inspectors need only a few skyscrapers to control.

                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Thanks, Cap. wassat It remains a trifle to understand where the observer is, and whether he exists at all.
                        The veil, dear colleague, is why it is a veil that is extended, refresh the geometry for the 5th grade in your memory, about the angular dimensions there. And as for the observer-gunner, aren't you all campaigning for him here? Have you completely lost the thread? I'm guessing satellite reconnaissance.


                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        boats with checkers along the coast can go at least 24 hours.
                        You are a dreamer though.
                        Break down the claim.


                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Yeah, it never happened, and here it is again
                        Do you understand the word "usually" in the context or not?
                      11. -1
                        April 12 2022 18: 16
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        That's how you framed your idea.

                        You can only judge how you understood it, and you have no right to decide for me how I built it.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        it was about countering drones over the port.

                        These are theoretical considerations and may not reflect the real situation. 50/50. To discuss this is a transfusion from empty to empty.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        What, there are also hills and buildings in the sea?

                        Does the gunner necessarily sit at sea?

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        the flat city and port can be viewed from far from everywhere.

                        Exactly!!! (Hand face). And there is only one pier, and its dimensions are known, and the coordinates. And the dimensions of the BDK are known. It is enough to walk along the embankment, and say into the phone, "second quarter to the left to the sea," and at the other end they simply threw the mouse on google-earth (geometry 4th grade), wrote off the coordinates and entered it into the GOS. All!!! The rocket went. From call to launch - 60 seconds, if everything is well planned. Without any satellites, James Bonds and fur seals. Eyes - phone - laptop. NOTHING else is needed.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Veil

                        Not a panacea and not a wunderwaffe. And no one has ever held it 24/7, in the entire history of wars.

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Break down the claim.

                        You do not want your own, but you expect from me? Wait further. laughing

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Do you understand the word "usually" in the context or not?

                        Or maybe a crow, or maybe a magpie? General chatter about nothing.
      2. +9
        April 9 2022 08: 54
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Quote: ism_ek
        No need to attribute the Americans. Point-U does not have a homing system.

        And who gave them the data, the coordinates?!

        The airfield in Millerovo was not built yesterday and the coordinates of its APU have been known for a long time - since the times of the USSR. Well, the port in Berdyansk is even more so - this is the territory of Ukraine ... It was. Well, not all residents are loyal to Russia, and it’s not difficult to convey where, exactly, the BDK is. So are the coordinates of Donetsk and Kramatorsk - everyone knows everything even without foreign assistance. Something like this.
        1. -4
          April 9 2022 14: 09
          Quote: Leshak
          Well, not all residents are loyal to Russia, and it’s not difficult to convey where, exactly, the BDK is. So are the coordinates of Donetsk and Kramatorsk - everyone knows everything even without foreign assistance. Something like this.

          This is a copy for the second grade. But the position and time spent at the pier is another matter. Of course, it can be transmitted by "well-wishers" by phone, but most likely by target designation from "partners".
          1. +1
            April 9 2022 18: 29
            They also film in real time on TV. Very handy for the enemy.
      3. +5
        April 9 2022 09: 40
        Have you served in the army? All the coordinates of strategic objects are in the database, the locals said at which pier the BDK is being unloaded, the coordinates were entered and worked out.
        1. -3
          April 9 2022 14: 02
          Quote: Pivot
          All coordinates of strategic objects in the database

          Judging by the "database" you are still a soldier. laughing
          1. +5
            April 9 2022 14: 55
            Judging by the database, I am constantly learning, and you are really that soldier
            1. -4
              April 9 2022 15: 09
              "Database of coordinates of strategic objects" - world base, collection base, what base is that? Scream.
    2. 0
      April 9 2022 08: 30
      Quote: ism_ek
      No need to attribute the Americans. Point-U does not have a homing system. On the day of shooting, it is enough to enter the coordinates of the target. They themselves showed on TV how the ships in Berdyansk are being unloaded. A day later, a rocket flew there ...
      And the zetinchiks are great for shooting down these missiles. Not always perfect, of course, but the goal is difficult. It is not worth discussing now what kind of missiles they are doing this with. The enemy reads everything and draws conclusions.

      If we cannot shoot down a 30-year-old missile, what can be said about air defense in a modern war? And what will happen when the United States or Turkey supply modern cruise missiles?
      1. -3
        April 9 2022 08: 35
        Quote: Pilat2009
        If we can't shoot down a 30 year old missile, what about air defense in modern warfare?

        Where did you find out? From an article? So she exaggerates a lot - downplays.
      2. +4
        April 9 2022 08: 39
        Quote: Pilat2009
        And what will happen when the United States or Turkey supply modern cruise missiles?

        Does Turkey have them?
        What will happen? Yes, it will be the same. Will shoot down, some. The rest will fly in and kill our people.
        Without constant air surveillance, the interception of low-altitude missiles is basically impossible.
        1. +1
          April 9 2022 09: 52
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          Quote: Pilat2009
          And what will happen when the United States or Turkey supply modern cruise missiles?

          Does Turkey have them?
          What will happen? Yes, it will be the same. Will shoot down, some. The rest will fly in and kill our people.
          Without constant air surveillance, the interception of low-altitude missiles is basically impossible.

          SOM is a long-range Turkish cruise missile developed by the Research and Design Institute of the Defense Industry of the Council of Turkey. The radius of destruction is 275 kilometers. The missile is quite compact in design, with a total mass of 590 kilograms, 230 of which is the warhead. SOM is capable of attacking stationary and moving targets. The rocket is powered by a French turbojet engine Microturbo TRI 40. The rocket is designed to be launched from air, land and sea. Guidance is carried out by means of a GPS system with correlation along the contour of the terrain (TRN system), an INS system is additionally installed, in case the enemy tries to interfere with GPS signals. Guidance at the final stage is carried out using an infrared matrix that compares the parameters of the object with those stored in the rocket's memory. The missile can be programmed to attack the target from various angles in order to ensure the necessary effectiveness of the defeat. 4 modifications of the rocket are under development, including a model with online data exchange, which will allow you to control the course of the rocket in flight. The rocket was also demonstrated during a rehearsal of a military parade in Baku dedicated to the anniversary of the creation of the Azerbaijani army[7], which may indicate that the rocket is now exported.
      3. +2
        April 9 2022 09: 18
        Quote: Pilat2009
        If we cannot shoot down a 30-year-old missile, what can be said about air defense in a modern war? And what will happen when the United States or Turkey supply modern cruise missiles?

        Do not confuse soft with wet. Ballistic and cruise missiles are very different targets. A ballistic missile is easy to spot, but it flies very fast. There are seconds to make a decision. A cruise missile flies slowly, but near the surface of the earth and it is difficult to detect it.
        Modern ballistic missiles have higher accuracy, but this is also their minus. When approaching the target, they slow down.
        Modern ballistic missiles are much more active in maneuvering in flight and have means of deceiving radars. This complicates the work of the calculation, but not fundamentally. The main problem remains the same. Very short flight time. The calculation has seconds to make a decision. You have to sit around for days on end. And it’s impossible to sit, because. the enemy monitors the work of radars and strikes at our air defense systems. You have to keep changing your position.
        1. +1
          April 9 2022 09: 57
          Quote: ism_ek
          Quote: Pilat2009
          If we cannot shoot down a 30-year-old missile, what can be said about air defense in a modern war? And what will happen when the United States or Turkey supply modern cruise missiles?

          Do not confuse soft with wet. Ballistic and cruise missiles are very different targets. A ballistic missile is easy to spot, but it flies very fast. There are seconds to make a decision. A cruise missile flies slowly, but near the surface of the earth and it is difficult to detect it.
          Modern ballistic missiles have higher accuracy, but this is also their minus. When approaching the target, they slow down.
          Modern ballistic missiles are much more active in maneuvering in flight and have means of deceiving radars. This complicates the work of the calculation, but not fundamentally. The main problem remains the same. Very short flight time. The calculation has seconds to make a decision. You have to sit around for days on end. And it’s impossible to sit, because. the enemy monitors the work of radars and strikes at our air defense systems. You have to keep changing your position.
          Essentially, please.
          Does this somehow solve the country's air defense problem?
          1. +4
            April 9 2022 11: 08
            Quote: Pilat2009
            Does this somehow solve the country's air defense problem?

            You do not.
            The article says about the decision - an air defense division at every kilometer of the border. It's just unrealistically expensive.
            The duty of the DLRO aviation could help, but we do not have it.
      4. -4
        April 9 2022 11: 10
        Whoa whoa! You have some kind of porridge. Lionfish and ballistics were immediately confused. Here it is ... You have to be more careful
        1. +1
          April 9 2022 12: 42
          Quote: kytx
          Lionfish and ballistics were immediately confused.

          Who mixed up what? Did I pass off a cruise missile as a ballistic missile somewhere?
      5. +1
        April 9 2022 18: 26
        We can intercept, but not all. You think in terms of peacetime, you want a 100% guarantee of survival. But that doesn't happen in war. Losses are inevitable. Who is ready to endure greater losses, he will win. Whoever loses will be completely destroyed. This is definitely true for Russians.
    3. -4
      April 9 2022 09: 16
      What prevented the port of Berdyansk from fitting something from the Navy? The same GK "Moscow" seems to be doing well with air defense ..
      1. +4
        April 9 2022 11: 03
        Quote: max702
        What prevented to fit something from the Navy to the port of Berdyansk? The same GK "Moscow" seems to be doing well with air defense ..
        och. Funny.
        Do you know the draft of the cruiser? And the depth of the Sea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbAzov?

        And the Ukrainians also have guns, and they shoot.
        1. 0
          April 10 2022 10: 14
          I looked, Moscow has a draft of 8.4m depth where you need to operate 10-15m, so everything is quite real .. But it's a pity, but suddenly they drown ..
    4. +4
      April 9 2022 12: 32
      Quote: ism_ek
      They themselves showed on TV how the ships in Berdyansk are being unloaded. A day later, the rocket flew there ...

      On the territory of the former USSR, there was a system of signs for topographic location of objects (pre-space jeepies) and using this system you can shoot even without advanced target designation, and you can receive information about the arrival of ships by telephone call from a Berdyansk inhabitant. So where are the berths in Berdyansk and the APU must know their coordinates.
  4. +2
    April 9 2022 06: 49
    The weapon created in the USSR once again proves its quality. It's too early to write him off.
    Try brothers, protect our cities!
    1. -1
      April 9 2022 12: 17
      You need to look at the depths of that area, well, the Russian Navy doesn’t have anything in an acre of Moscow? It’s just that the fleet is always too cherished, which deprives it of its meaning, the infantry is washed with blood, and it’s a pity for the fleet because "ukrov have guns ...
  5. +7
    April 9 2022 07: 12
    The entire personnel of those military units that the Points are in service with and which use them against civilians should be considered war criminals and judged accordingly. Let me remind you the recent strike of this rocket on the railway station in Kramatorsk, with a cluster filling, claimed the lives of 52 civilians (so far, there are still many seriously wounded), who just wanted to leave the city so as not to repeat the fate of the inhabitants of Mariupol. There is no forgiveness for such warriors and there will not be, to judge all those who can be taken alive.
    1. 0
      April 9 2022 10: 14
      And what prevents "come to visit" in the town of these brigades and knock. Their husbands will immediately understand that accuracy must be made worse.
      And what about the missile storage bases, their coordinates are also unknown? And BAZ is not KAMAZ and it’s probably easier to calculate.
      1. +1
        April 9 2022 10: 40
        That's right, the names of Ukrainian missilemen are known, to calculate their relatives, well, you yourself understand, just don't advertise it, the warriors themselves will understand everything.
      2. +1
        April 9 2022 12: 19
        Right now they will tell you not to be like! We are not them! You can’t do this with the brotherly people!
  6. 0
    April 9 2022 07: 55
    If the Point is so effective, then it is urgent to remove it from conservation and transfer it to Belarus and saturate the Kaliningrad region as much as possible.
    1. -3
      April 9 2022 08: 57
      They have. If I'm not mistaken, at least 465 missile brigades.
      1. +3
        April 9 2022 15: 25
        In the sense of 465 brigades?! About 5000 launchers?!
        1. +1
          April 9 2022 16: 31
          465th missile brigade.
    2. +1
      April 9 2022 16: 37
      And what prevented a couple of hundred Tochek-U and two or three thousand missiles from being transferred to the balance sheet of the LDNR six months before the NVO? They would have greatly contributed to the peacefulness of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the National Battalions .. Shouldn't they? What hindered? Is the lack of billing a problem? Since there are about 90 launchers and 800 missiles left in Ukraine, then everything is much more weighty. What is better? Will they rot while waiting for disposal, or will they cause damage to the enemy? There are more and more questions for the General Staff of the Russian Federation ...
  7. +7
    April 9 2022 08: 00
    I immediately recall stories about our powerful air defense before the special operation. stories about how all the launchers of the y point will be destroyed, the missile intercepted
  8. +6
    April 9 2022 08: 59
    It seems like Tochki and BUK 3 are shooting down, and somehow there was news that the Shell shot down in my opinion in the Russian Federation while covering the airport. Therefore, there are a lot of dots over the territory of the LPR and DPR, and there are hardly C400s there, I think the BUKs are working. The author is right about target designation from the United States, by the way it is effective, the passage of helicopters to Belgorod proves this and the BDK is also their work. In the event of a showdown with NATO, you need to really think about how to deal with it, for some reason the EW of the Russian Federation somehow does not jam NATO-AFU communications, and this is the only way to deprive the APU of the ability to receive intelligence from satellites and reconnaissance aircraft. Indeed, on their basis, not only tsu for Points is built, but also success in counterattacks on our barriers and the evasion of their units from our aviation soldier
    1. -2
      April 9 2022 10: 44
      But what about complexes like overexposure, why satellites over Ukraine are not jammed, but even better shot down, all the same, the war with NATO is already underway, it will not get worse.
      1. +1
        April 9 2022 12: 11
        Now the war with NATO is indirect, we are crushing their proxies in the face of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. An attack on satellites is already a war with NATO, which we absolutely do not need!
    2. 0
      April 11 2022 10: 37
      I'll tell you more, they even shot down with arrows soldier
  9. -6
    April 9 2022 08: 59
    Tochka-U development of the 80s of the last century. So to hell with all these S-300,400,500 if they practically can’t do anything. And scribbles and advertisements, at least .. eat.
  10. -1
    April 9 2022 09: 32
    The whole problem is much simpler. The capitalist military-industrial complex cannot saturate air defense to an outrageous amount, it is terribly expensive! It is better to take funds over the hill than to master them here! The capitalists do not want to fight at all, the crow will not peck out the eye of the crow!
  11. 0
    April 9 2022 10: 37
    Most likely, statistics have already been collected, which Points were successfully intercepted and how
  12. -1
    April 9 2022 10: 43
    And finally, 9M79F (9M79-1F) missiles with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead, which most likely form the basis of the ammunition load of the Ukrainian Tochka-U OTRK, are blown up by a radio fuse at a height of 20 meters and contain 162,5 kilograms of explosives 14 fragments, hitting everything on an area of ​​​​up to three hectares.

    Now it’s clear why the SPR-2 “Mercury-B” electronic warfare stations, which cause premature detonation of radio fuses, were transferred to the Donbass.
  13. +1
    April 9 2022 10: 50
    The most important role in this "luck" was played by not the skills or valor of the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but the effectiveness of the weapons created in the USSR - the Tochka-U OTRK, and the most powerful information support provided by the United States to the armed forces of Ukraine.

    It was not necessary to throw away the caps ahead of time, and it was necessary to prepare for the SA properly according to the situation from September 2021.
    And my opinion remains - you can’t fight here, organize preparations for the parade here, engage in funeral events there ... First you need to win!
  14. +1
    April 9 2022 11: 04
    Quote: Coma_64
    Pityers of the Kremlin

    There is one more reason to resolve issues as they arise, this is not a desire to disclose the tactics of action and the performance characteristics of the weapons that are not yet very illuminated by the partners, they are saving for a big war. What would be at least some unpleasant surprise for them
  15. -1
    April 9 2022 11: 16
    And what is the difference between the wording "hitting the target with a direct hit" and "hit-to-kill" ???
    Or is it necessary to stick imported for the sake of prettiness ???
    And the list of such substitutions, when journalists begin to use the inexpressible word of a hostile nation, is full!!!
    Fake .. why is it better than FALSE ????
    creative - how is it better than creative or non-standard ???
    management - how is it better than MANAGEMENT???
    save - this is finally fucking understand .. this is a ball or puck beaten off by the goalkeeper.
    flashmob - is it better than an ORGANIZED EVENT????


    And the indication of our weapons according to NATO classification is constantly annoying !!! Fuck what they call it!!! These names are shoved everywhere ... and now everyone knows that there is a STANA .. but not everyone knows that this is actually VOEVODA !!!!!
    And so it is everywhere.
    Journalists epty, can not operate with the words of the Russian language. On the neck so to push.
    1. +1
      April 10 2022 02: 00
      Quote: Evgesha
      flashmob is better than ORGANIZEDO(?)E EVENT????

      At least the fact that you wrote the word "flashmob" without errors. wink
      And in general - the speed of transmission of information and the convenience of pronunciation. Just compare the number of syllables and the required time.

      Py.Sy. There is a theory that the phonetically shorter (army) orders, the faster the unit in combat. For a fraction of a second, but faster. And a fraction of a second during fire contact indoors, for example, or at zero distances, is an eternity.
  16. 0
    April 9 2022 11: 17
    Quote: Eroma
    for some reason, the electronic warfare of the Russian Federation somehow does not jam the connection between NATO and the Armed Forces of Ukraine,

    Apparently because we don’t have so many electronic warfare aircraft, and if they can be shot down by the S-300 and Buk, then their use will cost a pretty penny and it’s not easy to replenish them quickly
    1. +4
      April 9 2022 13: 16
      As practice in Ukraine has shown, all these electronic warfare systems are in fact an empty place - all communications, mobile short-wave, medium-long waves, Internet, satellite communications in Ukraine continue to work in full, even at the forefront of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the National Battalions, nothing has changed in this regard in 40 days of the war.
      1. +2
        April 9 2022 18: 08
        You will also propose that the Minister of Defense of Ukraine and the head of their General Staff be left without contact with the troops. I strongly suspect that they both sat in Kyiv and sit. And they manage from there.
        Some strange First imperialist inter-Slavic ....
  17. -3
    April 9 2022 11: 51
    Yes, they will destroy them sooner or later .. They beat the civilians and this is already a tribunal!
  18. AB
    +7
    April 9 2022 13: 30
    the most powerful information support provided by the United States to the armed forces of Ukraine.

    Oh well. Again, the West and the States are to blame, and our carelessness is again justified. At first, such resistance from Ukraine was not expected. Then the conscripts ended up in the area of ​​hostilities, then Berdyansk with the BDK and there is practically no information about this, then they forgot about strengthening our border, etc. etc. You can endlessly list our jambs and, most importantly, constantly justify them ...
  19. -4
    April 9 2022 13: 47
    The opinion of the amateur.
    The currently used air defense systems do not have sufficient power to guarantee the destruction of the Tochka-U missile (they hit it but do not destroy it). The S-300V mentioned in the article with powerful 9M82 and 9M83 missiles capable of intercepting the Lance BR and the Pershing BR warhead should be guaranteed to destroy the Tochka missile without the possibility of a subsequent warhead firing.
  20. +3
    April 9 2022 13: 54
    Yes, there is Israel's excellent experience in balloon missile defense systems. But the lack of missile defense and air defense systems in the border areas where hostilities are taking place is an indisputable fact and an unforgivable mistake. This indicates a systemic problem. But we have yachts for $600 mil.
    1. -6
      April 9 2022 15: 15
      Quote: Dmitry K
      have a wonderful experience of israel

      it's a shame to refer to the country that shot down the IL.
      1. +4
        April 9 2022 15: 35
        What nonsense they wrote!
        1. -3
          April 9 2022 17: 11
          Quote: Roman Efremov
          What nonsense they wrote!

          stop making excuses for the Zionists
      2. +1
        April 10 2022 02: 08
        Quote: anthonindex
        it's a shame to refer

        Familiar rhetoric. lol
        https://cs8.pikabu.ru/images/big_size_comm/2016-09_4/1474391281165668648.jpg
      3. 0
        April 10 2022 10: 17
        China copies everything, saturating its army with the right weapons. "Shame" to lose our Heroes, let enemy helicopters and missiles into the territory of the Russian Federation. The life of our soldiers and citizens is priceless.
  21. 0
    April 9 2022 14: 11
    Quote from Electric
    The whole problem is much simpler. The capitalist military-industrial complex cannot saturate air defense to an outrageous amount, it is terribly expensive! It is better to take funds over the hill than to master them here! The capitalists do not want to fight at all, the crow will not peck out the eye of the crow!

    Firstly, if you didn’t want to, then you wouldn’t have fought ..
    Secondly, the people supported Yeltsin twice, and what he "with his comrades" managed to do is not compensated for by ten technical and political geniuses in decades. This factor covers everything else like a trump card. Even though there will be S-300, at least S-33 300, at least something .... Should have thought earlier. Instead of yelling; "And for whom else?...." ...... It is this moronic that kills us today; "and for whom else?...", "Point-U" is just a means of delivery.
  22. -2
    April 9 2022 15: 26
    Quote: Vadim237
    As practice in Ukraine has shown, all these electronic warfare systems are in fact an empty place

    You are not quite right, it's just that its range is not so great and it all depends on the power, for example, to interrupt the connection between the terminal and the EW satellite should hang over the terminal
  23. -1
    April 9 2022 15: 38
    It may be necessary to deal with the cause, and not with the consequences. If we know that you give intelligence, then shoot down all their satellites ...
  24. +1
    April 9 2022 15: 50
    Quote from Chuk Gek
    It may be necessary to deal with the cause, and not with the consequences. If we know that you give intelligence, then shoot down all their satellites ...

    We will definitely bang! And more than once! The whole world is in ruins!.. But then...
  25. +1
    April 9 2022 16: 02
    Quote from Chuk Gek
    It may be necessary to deal with the cause, and not with the consequences. If we know that you give intelligence, then shoot down all their satellites ...

    Brilliant .. I must say to the minister. Maybe, just in case, gasp in their capital? Just for reliability.
  26. BAI
    +3
    April 9 2022 16: 56
    S-400 against Tochka? The author did not try to compare their cost?
  27. +1
    April 9 2022 17: 00
    This protection, Dear, is very weak. I ask why there are no more cheap "STOCK" (Točky) in the army am and they are being replaced by other expensive weapons? They have good soldier training. As a friend of Russia, perhaps I can afford a little criticism. Not very educated Iraqi fighters were able to fight, and we have lieutenants and captains with higher education, but the results are not very good. Someone is responsible for this.
  28. 0
    April 9 2022 17: 46
    The issue of counter-destruction of the launcher by the corresponding missiles, including the reactivated Tochki-U, as well as the issue of the operation of electronic warfare systems against target designation systems, including the destruction of enemy satellites by laser and other means, has not been considered.
  29. 0
    April 9 2022 19: 17
    Only 25 of them have already been shot down by the air defense of the DPR!
  30. -2
    April 9 2022 21: 06
    If US satellites threaten our military forces, then there is a real right to shoot them down.
    1. +2
      April 9 2022 21: 36
      What!!!!! Truth!? wassat
  31. 0
    April 9 2022 21: 35
    ..as well as a consequence, or even a lack of forecasting, ignoring such threats by the managers of the Armed Forces, despite the massive distribution of weapons of this kind in the world, through the sale of Russian weapons to almost everyone. Weapons are a new business in Russia! What else to expect from a potential adversary? In the USSR, people could be shot for selling military secrets; now this is a normal business, which the new government happily welcomes.
  32. 0
    April 9 2022 22: 33
    Probably, probably, maybe...
    Eptyt, stop swinging, we are fighting for the second month!
    It is necessary by all available means to exclude the entry of Points on our territory and, long overdue, on the territory of the LPR and DPR!
    What is missing for this our "highly digitized
    nym sun?
    Where are the modern means of combating tactical missiles?
    What, again, hat-throwing works?
    You make a disgrace!
  33. 0
    April 9 2022 22: 59
    The Russian military-industrial complex needs to sell (export) weapons and weapons (including air defense systems) with built-in "hidden" weapons blocking schemes (using signals from space) or the inability to point at geographic coordinates within the State Border of the Russian Federation! In order not to dare to shoot "where we don't need" or "on the territory of the Russian Federation"
  34. +1
    April 9 2022 23: 46
    The horses were caught: Western journalists, with the permission of the banderlogs, photographed the tail of a point-y rocket that fell in Kramatorsk. Marking is visible on the shank. The same series of numbers as other missiles that fell in four more settlements of Ukraine and the DPR / LPR in 2015 and 2022
  35. 0
    April 10 2022 02: 34
    Isn't it time to thin out the US satellite constellation and companies????
  36. 0
    April 10 2022 03: 36
    The most effective way would be the total destruction of the aircraft and all places where military equipment is found.
  37. 0
    April 10 2022 10: 51
    No quantity and quality of air defense systems is capable of 100% eliminating the breakthrough of air defense by enemy missiles or aircraft, it is only possible to minimize the likelihood of this event.
    . Obviously, alas.
    Only hunt down and destroy on the spot / during transportation.
    In the light of serious assistance from the West, one might say, with their manual control and good communication equipment, the task is difficult ...
  38. +2
    April 10 2022 13: 36
    The explanation is correct, but does not remove responsibility from those responsible for organizing air defense ..... The seminar on "Tochka-U" should have been read for the responsible officials of the Ministry of Defense, before the start of hostilities ....
    Haven't you tried our vaunted electronic warfare equipment? And then, in peacetime, everyone and everywhere, even from irons, broadcast about their effectiveness .... But, it turns out, "s" are still transmitting intelligence. information to the Armed Forces of Ukraine in real time .... How to understand all this?
  39. +1
    April 10 2022 15: 43
    To the author - BECAUSE these are not Ukrainian missiles. This is Soviet, the highest quality IN RELATIONSHIP
    with a price, a weapon in its time and this quality still works today and will be. Air defense is primarily people, they are operators. Some kind of conflict - you don’t call the "stinger" Ukrainian MANPADS, do you? The fact that the rocket belongs to the Armed Forces of Ukraine does not "bottle" on the move.
  40. +1
    April 10 2022 16: 52
    Well said about Tochka-y. But why seek and shoot down. Isn't it better to work out in the places of decision-making. The General Staff of the Verkhovna Rada. Work in their cities. By factories. over bridges and railway tracks. So it will come faster. Instead of looking for missiles
  41. +2
    April 10 2022 21: 10
    And the residents of Moscow and St. Petersburg are purple that in Ukraine our soldiers are fighting the Nazis, they die and become crippled, and there is fun everywhere, theaters, strip clubs, hockey football, that's where the soboka rummaged - there is no unity among people, there is no mourning for the dead , there are no protests at bourgeois embassies against the supply of weapons, people live to eat and no one cares about anything but themselves, these are the consequences of the mediocre policy of our rulers,
  42. +1
    April 10 2022 21: 33
    Given the saturation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with American satellite communication terminals, the United States


    And where are our electronic warfare systems? Do you remember a few years ago on one American destroyer, almost the entire crew jumped overboard with reports of dismissal of their own free will? Or was it all lies?
  43. 0
    April 11 2022 15: 53
    Yes, because what?
    Because people who have devoted their lives to this cause do not eat their bread for nothing. It doesn't matter what army and whom they serve. Yes, there is missile defense and air defense, by the way - not a panacea, but there are also people, in this case officers, who are able to assess the situation and issue a decision on a specific situation. This is their profession. Any war is a confrontation of brains. And technology is just a tool for implementation.
  44. 0
    April 11 2022 21: 15
    You can make excuses as much as you like (the USSR made good missiles, NATO has good intelligence), but the fact is that even Ukraine breaks through our air defense with its OTRK. And from here another question immediately follows, how are we going to resist a more powerful army, such as NATO or China, in case of war?

    It is necessary to draw conclusions and take measures to reduce the effectiveness of the Ukrainian Points-U to zero.
    1. 0
      April 14 2022 18: 01
      And from here another question immediately follows, how are we going to resist a more powerful army, such as NATO or China, in case of war?


      No way. Hope for nuclear weapons.
      We cannot win the war with the NATO bloc only with conventional weapons.
      And the Commander-in-Chief understands this very well:
      https://www.interfax.ru/ruia/820745
      Of course, the potential of the joint organization of NATO and Russia is incomparable
  45. -1
    April 14 2022 21: 18
    Because corny air defense is not enough! Everything is eaten up by gaskets from effective managers! Which then, together with the nuclear suitcase over the hill, will run away under the guise of foreign PMCs!
  46. 0
    April 15 2022 08: 43
    Since these weapons have shown their effectiveness, and their number is relatively small, it would probably be necessary to create teams of hunters for Tochka-U launchers. As far as I remember, such tasks are assigned to the Airborne Forces and they are trained for this. However, as they fired rockets, so they shoot. And it seems that no one cares about this.
  47. 0
    April 17 2022 19: 06
    Answer: these are the consequences of cutting money.
  48. 0
    April 18 2022 23: 09
    “It is the information transmitted by our real enemies”
    Why don't we hit real enemies?