Attack helicopter Mi-28N: try to criticize

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Indeed, today, if there is anything to talk about, then about helicopters. Simply because the ongoing special operation was precisely a test for survival in combat conditions for this class of vehicles.

Why exactly for helicopters? It's simple: aircraft are practically expanse, because the Air Force and Air Defense of Ukraine suffered very heavy losses and practically cannot have the slightest sane effect on the situation.



But for helicopters, whose main enemies are still MANPADS and MZA, and which do not fly at such altitudes as airplanes, everything just continues. And today we will talk about how old and unsuitable for combat operations the Mi-28N.


If you look at the numbers - yes, you can’t call the new Mi-28N


Work on the Mi-28 helicopter was started back in the 70s of the last century, and the Mi-28N itself has existed as a model since 2007. But it is not the numbers that are at war, but the machines, and sometimes enough is hidden behind the numbers, which is usually not taken into account.

And it is worth taking into account not only the performance characteristics and flight characteristics of the helicopter, but taking everything as a whole: the capabilities of the helicopter, crew training, especially the ability to operate in difficult situations, interaction with various ground structures.

As a negative example, it is worth recalling the operation to free the employees of the American embassy in Tehran in 1980, when during the so-called Operation Eagle Claw, the United States lost a tanker plane and two helicopters in accidents (one fell into the sea after taking off from the deck of an aircraft carrier, and the second helicopter was rammed by a tanker aircraft), and five helicopters were simply abandoned.

We can also recall Operation Desert Storm, when in 1990-91 FIVE Apache helicopters were lost due to piloting errors at night only. This despite the fact that all of them were equipped with systems for night flights.

Our "successes" in the First Chechen War were also more than modest, aviation operated exclusively during the daytime and in favorable weather conditions.

Meanwhile, who said that the war should be fought exclusively from 9 to 18 with a lunch break?

The practice of using helicopters by army aviation and the Aerospace Forces shows that helicopter night operations are very, very useful. Yes, several per night tanks and armored personnel carriers, trucks, artillery positions - it seems to be not so much in numbers, but this has a very serious impact on enemy soldiers.

A harassing artillery barrage is not a good thing. But its effectiveness is not as great as that of a pair of helicopters with thermal imagers, capable of sending a missile to the residual heat of a tank engine.

And if every night...

So, today, a quarter of a century after the first flight, the Mi-28N is in service and is used for its intended purpose, and not only at night, but also during the day.


For a helicopter that was created not as part of an armaments program, but as an initiative of Mil Design Bureau employees, it is simply magical.

Many consider the helicopter unique


Well, one can agree, but a helicopter that would be designed at AvtoVAZ could be called unique. And the Mil Design Bureau turned out to be a very good and well-conceived helicopter with great modernization potential. This often happens when professionals work. Because the Mi-28N is a very good machine, made by competent hands and minds.

Easy to operate, capable of operating day and night, away from airfields and bases, using compatible fuels and lubricants and ammunition - this is the secret of the uniqueness of the Mi-28N. In general, there was a very successful Mi-28 helicopter; an even more advanced Mi-28N model was created on its basis.

What's the difference? And there is a whole field in which you can get bogged down. By the 90s, it became clear that all the modules that the Americans so “successfully” used on their machines (night vision goggles, thermal imagers, night cameras, low-altitude flight radars) were really a thing of the past. Moreover, the number of vehicles that the United States lost in peaceful situations, not in combat, cannot be compared with combat losses.

And here it is simply necessary to remember the person without whom we simply would not have such a machine.


To our great regret, Givi Ivlianovich Dzhandzhgava, the general designer of the Ramenskoye instrument-making design bureau, died in October last year. But the navigation and sighting systems developed by him and under his leadership for Russian aircraft and helicopters will continue to serve in fear of enemies for a long time to come.

Within the walls of the Ramenskoye design bureau, under the leadership of Janjgava, a single control system for the helicopter was developed, which combined control over all the systems of the machine, from preparation for takeoff to launching missiles and firing from a cannon.

Three on-board central computers and seven peripheral computers with an open architecture that allows you to increase and modernize the control and monitoring functions depending on the changing situation and the requirements of the moment.

That is, using modern multiplex information exchange channels, the system allows you to connect any equipment in any combination. This is the same modernization potential that was mentioned above, but not in terms of boosting the engine, but in terms of improving all the electronic systems of the helicopter.

Example: the Mi-28N has a completely modern inertial system that is able to determine the coordinates of the machine in any evolution. We add optical cameras, infrared thermal imaging sensors and a camera, an on-board on-board locator and a data bank with terrain maps to the ISC and get a three-dimensional map of the area on one of the helicopter displays after processing.

What the Apache pilots, who stuck their cars into the dunes, lacked so much.

Considering that the Arbalet radar was placed above the main rotor hubs (it later migrated to the Ka-52), which, working as part of the on-board equipment complex, makes it possible to provide piloting with terrain avoidance in manual and automatic modes, giving out information about obstacles on displays to the pilot - more than good.

"Crossbow" can "see" free-standing trees, power poles and even wires. And if information from the IR station is added to the radar, it becomes clear that the helicopter crew can feel even safer at night than during the day.

Well, a bank with cards is a very, very useful thing, since the data on the relief of an unfamiliar area at the disposal of the pilot can ensure both the safety of the flight and the successful completion of the task.


Now, when the crews are working in a completely unfamiliar environment, this is especially true. No less than satellite support for a helicopter navigation system.

In general, all electronic equipment of the helicopter contributes to one goal: to simplify and secure flights at low and ultra-low altitudes, in conditions of limited visibility and at night, as much as possible.


The Rotor observation and sighting station, together with the onboard computer, provides the synthesis of cartographic, thermal imaging and radar information with the display of a three-dimensional image of the terrain and a directory of information in a form convenient for the pilot. Plus, search and recognition of targets with the issuance of information to the workplace of the navigator, who makes the final decision on attacking the target.

Concluding the review of electronics, it is worth noting that the Arbalet over-hull radar works very well even from low altitudes, which allows the Mi-28N to “sit in a trench”, hiding behind a forest belt, hill, building. By literally placing a propeller and a radar located under it over the shelter, the operator receives information about the targets and processes it. Then the helicopter makes a jump, fires rockets and goes behind cover again. A very good technique to minimize the possibility of hitting a helicopter.

About a possible defeat


In general, little or very little is usually said about helicopter safety systems. They mainly talk about the performance characteristics and the amount of weapons that the helicopter is able to take on board. But when it comes to the fact that the machine will work in real combat conditions, then great attention must be paid to the survivability of the helicopter and the survival of the crew.

After all, the more the helicopter is in the combat zone, the greater the chance that it will "fly". This is the law of combat.

Over the Mi-28N worked very hard.

The engines were smashed along the sides, the main gearbox was located between them, thereby practically eliminating the defeat of both engines with one shot / rocket. Mi-24 bug fixed. In addition, the helicopter will be able to fly on one engine. In case of defeat or failure of any of the engines, the second will automatically be brought to the maximum operating mode.

In the design of the helicopter, pneumatic systems were used as widely as possible, replacing hydraulics with them wherever possible. This has reduced the risk of fire on board in case of failure or failure of systems.

The electrical network and cables of control systems are duplicated and spaced along the sides.

Booking. The armored cabin is made according to the "bath" principle of aluminum sheets with a total thickness of 10 mm. 16 mm ceramic armor plates are glued onto aluminum sheets, which are very light and very durable. Cabin doors are made of two 10 mm layers of aluminum with a polyurethane gasket between the layers.


Windshields in the cabs are transparent blocks 42 mm thick, side windows and glass in the doors are 22 mm thick. The cockpits are separated by a 10 mm thick aluminum armor plate, which excludes the defeat of both pilots with a single MZA shot.


The windshield confidently holds the impact of a 12,7-mm bullet, the side windows do not penetrate 7,62-mm bullets, the sides of the cockpit can withstand 20-mm shells.

But what if the shells and missiles did penetrate?


When work was underway on the Mi-28, apparently, our designers of ejection equipment were not ready to make a proposal, which was subsequently implemented in the Kamov Design Bureau on the Ka-50. KAS K-37-800 developed by NPP Zvezda appeared in 2007, in fact, together with the Mi-28N. So the helicopter used the crew rescue system, not relying on ejection seats. Although the pyrobolts are installed on the blades.

The Mi-28N rescue system works according to the classical principle.

If the height at which the incident occurred is more than 100 meters:
- propeller blades, wing consoles and doors of both cabins are fired;
- belts are cut with special cutters;
- balloonets are inflated, which prevent the crew from touching the chassis or the turned gun when leaving;
- the crew leaves the car and escapes with the help of parachutes.

If the height is less than 100 meters:
- the system of forced attraction of belts works;
- when hitting the ground, the energy is extinguished by the landing gear;
- then the energy is absorbed by the chairs "Pamir-K".

To be honest, the system is old. I personally witnessed the fall of the Mi-28N of the Berkuty aerobatic team in Dubrovichi on August 2, 2015. The fall was from a small height, the most experienced crew tried to save the car, but in the end, the pilot Igor Butenko died, and his navigator-operator survived. There were also cases of the fall of the Mi-28N in the Krasnodar Territory in 2011 and 2019, which claimed the lives of three pilots.

Ejection seats would come in handy here.

But this is when the helicopter crashes due to the failure of some parts and mechanisms. When it comes to combat use, then the matter is completely different. Often the crew has one or two seconds at their disposal, and sometimes they don’t.

As an illustration, I will cite a video when a rocket from a MANPADS was launched into a helicopter literally at point-blank range (by air standards). The chances were not only scanty for salvation, there is no need to talk about them at all. A second is all. The worst enemy of the helicopter is MANPADS, as I said.


In this situation, of course, there is no chance of salvation. But in a normal situation, albeit a combat one, there is.

"Night hunter" has the means to combat enemy missiles on board. The missile defense complex includes:
- warning equipment about the exposure of the helicopter to radar stations and laser designators of the enemy, which informs the crew about this;
- equipment for jamming radar stations;
- a system for jamming missiles with an infrared guidance system;
- a device for firing cartridges UV-26 for protection against heat-seeking missiles.

A lot or a little - we'll talk at the very end.

And now, of course, weapons


For the sake of which the Mi-28N generally takes off the ground and flies towards the enemy.

In general, the scheme is similar to the day version of the Mi-28A. The same set of small arms, guided and unguided weapons.

Rifle, it is also a cannon, represented by a mobile installation of a 2A42 gun with a caliber of 30 mm. The gun has a rotation angle of 220 degrees in the horizontal plane and from +13 to -40 degrees in the vertical plane.

Both crew members can fire from a cannon, the pilot will use a helmet-mounted sight for this. The drive is electric, the supply of projectiles is selective, that is, you can choose the type of projectile, high-explosive fragmentation or armor-piercing. Boxes with ribbons are located on the cannon turret, which increases the reliability of the system, since there are no flexible sleeves for supplying shells, the boxes rotate with the gun. Ammunition 250 shells.


The experience of combat use of other machines showed that a rotating gun is much more effective than a fixed one, since it takes much less time to turn the barrel than to turn the entire machine towards the enemy.

Guided missile weapons consist of two types. The anti-tank "Ataka-V" with a 9M120V missile controlled by radio, which is much more effective than laser guidance, and the anti-aircraft "Sagittarius" with a 9M39 missile from the Igla MANPADS. Although "Ataka-V" can also be used quite normally for air targets.


Since guided weapons are tied through the control system to the Arbalet radar, missiles can be used on a fire-and-forget basis day and night. All guided missile weapons can be used at distances up to 6 km.

Currently, the Mi-28N is waiting for an update in the form of new 9M120D Ataka-D ATGMs, in which the range will be increased to 8 km.

Unguided weapons. Classic NARs S-57 (caliber 57 mm), S-80 (caliber 80 mm), S-13 (caliber 122 mm). Mi-28N suspension points can accommodate 128 S-57s, 80 S-80s and 20 S-13s.

There is another option for hanging two cannon containers with a GSh-23 cannon and 250 shells each. The guns, however, will be motionless.

If someone considers NAR obsolete weapons, then only one thing can be said in response: how and for whom to use. In fact, if a group of helicopters, say, of 4 units, fires five thousand S-57s at an object like "artillery regiment positions", then what will remain of the positions after that? Or walk with NARs through the hangars and warehouses of the airbase. The target can always be found. And today the use of the Mi-28N in Ukraine confirms this.


And the last. Again about electronics. The combat use of the Mi-28N as part of a group makes it possible to exchange information about detected targets and distribute targets between vehicles in the group. This is a very important point, because it allows you to more effectively use the strike capabilities of the group.

And finally, tactics


"Night hunter" he is good because it can be used at night. The day is a very unpleasant time for a helicopter and its crew. The helicopter is visible, and therefore the MANPADS operator can catch it in the sight of his weapons and launch a rocket.

The helicopter is not visible at night. Yes, it is, of course, audible, but MANPADS are not yet able to work on sound. They still need to catch the heat of the engine, and for this, whatever one may say, they need visual contact.

A tank destroyed at night is no less valuable than during the day. So let the "Hunters" do their job around the clock, especially since they have everything for this.


***


Mi-28N is absolutely not outdated today. On the contrary, the use of a helicopter in the conditions of Ukraine showed its strengths. Possibility to perform flight preparation, post-flight maintenance and search for a failed system without the use of special control and verification equipment, which is usually available only at home airfields. The "Hunter" has excellent night vision, a good weapon, it is unpretentious in the field.

There are other components of combat success, but we will talk about them in the near future, since it makes sense to compare some of the things that have shown up recently.
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148 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. -11
    23 March 2022 04: 39
    It's too early to talk about the "expanse of aviation". As soon as they try to go down, they immediately lose the latest Dryers from MANPADS. Helicopters still have a lot of work to do.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +16
      23 March 2022 05: 24
      It is much more difficult to shoot down a MANPADS than a helicopter. The speed is much higher. Flashed and it's gone.
      1. +3
        23 March 2022 06: 45
        So the plane does not have time for anything near the ground at helicopter height. And at 2-3 km, the angular velocity is lower. Shoot stingerrm
      2. +11
        23 March 2022 07: 02
        Not much. The board that "works on the ground" does not fly fast, and MANPADS were originally designed specifically for them. Stingers already thousands of they are supplied and the whole joke is that until the bullet is fired, you won’t notice it in greenery .. So 5 km of height is our everything and hope for Hephaestus, more for every bad head of Krasnopolya, etc., you can’t stock up on controlled supplies
        1. +3
          23 March 2022 10: 29
          Quote: Ilya_Nsk
          Thousands of stingers have already been supplied to them, and the whole joke is that until you shoot a bullet, you won’t notice it in the green.

          Helicopter pilots have already changed their tactics of work - they go as low as possible to the launch distance, make a hill, and launch NURSs along a hinged trajectory. And then a U-turn with shooting traps. You can see it in the latest videos. This tactic allows you to save cars and lives, but there are questions about the effectiveness of strikes.
    3. +5
      23 March 2022 06: 53
      Quote: Tlauicol
      Helicopters still have a lot of work to do.

      According to the latest open sources, we had 538 units of strike systems. I would like to supplement the author of the MI-28-N since last year, armed with a new VORTEX-1 missile
    4. +7
      23 March 2022 07: 23
      Hermes would be in their ammunition load, but so far there are very few of them, which is bad. Now tank columns could burn from a safe distance, and this missile can easily work in terms of manpower and fortifications.
    5. 0
      29 March 2022 14: 18
      You are serious. Losses of the latest dryers from MANPADS. I watched a Ukrainian video about an allegedly downed Su-35 near Izyum and an interrogation immediately at the place of the captured pilot. This video is for complete idiots. In the distance, something is on fire. There is no close plan. There is no display of the remnants of the airframe, engines, aircraft identification capabilities. Allegedly, the pilot is about fifty years old, not a Brit, he looks like a homeless person. The interrogation is conducted on the spot, as if detention. Some kind of tin. In short, it is impossible to believe in such a thing. Where is the helmet, ejection seat, signs of belonging. There is nothing. Another fake about wins.
      1. 0
        29 March 2022 14: 33
        Not you, but you. I'm talking about a couple of su30s and three su34s shot down by MANPADS
  3. +22
    23 March 2022 05: 10
    And today we will talk about how old and unsuitable for combat operations the Mi-28N.

    It was worth talking about something else. A comparative analysis of the combat use of the Mi-28N with the KA-52 and foreign analogues would be relevant.
    By the way, in all the photographs posted for the article, I did not see the crossbow.
    1. +3
      23 March 2022 05: 14
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      And today we will talk about how old and unsuitable for combat operations the Mi-28N.

      It was worth talking about something else. A comparative analysis of the combat use of the Mi-28N with the KA-52 and foreign analogues would be relevant.
      By the way, in all the photographs posted for the article, I did not see the crossbow.

      one has hi
      1. +5
        23 March 2022 05: 56
        I didn’t notice something either, where did you see the over-bush? hi
        1. +3
          23 March 2022 06: 34
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
          And today we will talk about how old and unsuitable for combat operations the Mi-28N.

          It was worth talking about something else. A comparative analysis of the combat use of the Mi-28N with the KA-52 and foreign analogues would be relevant.
          By the way, in all the photographs posted for the article, I did not see the crossbow.

          one has hi

          I looked at the photos again. Unfortunately, I didn’t see it, tell me which one (you can use the serial number). hi
          1. +3
            23 March 2022 06: 43
            IMHO, third from the end, cut off at the top
            1. +6
              23 March 2022 06: 54
              Quote: Tlauicol
              IMHO, third from the end, cut off at the top

              If I'm not mistaken - this is a photo of 2012, with a "crossbow" layout.
              1. +6
                23 March 2022 07: 02
                Since the photo is cropped, it is difficult to say that there is a crossbow there.
              2. +2
                23 March 2022 07: 05
                Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Quote: Tlauicol
                IMHO, third from the end, cut off at the top

                If I'm not mistaken - this is a photo of 2012, with a "crossbow" layout.

                Yes, from the show
            2. +2
              23 March 2022 06: 58
              There, in general, it is almost not clear whether there is a crossbow or not, on the third from the end.
        2. +1
          23 March 2022 11: 05
          In the photo in the article, they really are not.
          Here is the ball above the sleeve:
          https://aviadrive.ru/upload/iblock/b32/mi_28n_1.jpg
        3. 0
          23 March 2022 19: 14
          In the photo where the Mi-28N stands "bristling". At the top, the edge of the RPU is visible. And not necessarily RPU (radio-transparent shelter should be spherical.
    2. +2
      23 March 2022 07: 26
      Kote of the Kokhanka panel, so, they didn’t put an over-hub radar on the Mi24N! Only received a few, in the process of testing and fine-tuning hi !
      1. NKT
        +6
        23 March 2022 09: 25
        They put it on the Mi-28NM.

        Mi-28


        Mi-28N


        Mi-28NM
        1. -1
          23 March 2022 12: 49
          They put it on the Mi-28NM.

          Here you look at the Mi-28 from all angles and you see that, in general, the designers conscientiously developed individual helicopter modules for which they were responsible. But actually the chief designer could not put all these modules together, meaningfully, functionally into a single helicopter. The Mi-28 resembles a Lego constructor, which was randomly assembled by a child, without much understanding why he assembled it this way and nothing else.
          Ka-52 in this sense is a much more integral helicopter.
    3. +33
      23 March 2022 10: 27
      The author, to put it mildly, passes off what he wants as reality .. The crossbow navigation radar did not go so massively on the Mi-28, because the vibrations from the gearbox do not allow it to work reliably, and the gearbox itself is a birth disease of this apparatus that calls into question the entire program, in addition to this disgusting night equipment what did the pilots in Syria complain about, does a cannon like rotate at huge angles? Is it impossible to get anywhere from it? And as a cherry, the inability to control helicopters for the second crew member, yes, I know that on the latest version, this problem seems to have been solved, but how many of them are there alone in the troops? Two? So it is precisely for this reason that the heroes of the KA-52 report, and the Mi-28 occasionally flicker, and only during the day .. Design Bureau MIL completely failed the attack helicopter program and real databases confirm this .. Alas, it is lobbying in the USSR lobbyism. how many soldiers for this in conflicts over the past 30 years have paid with blood and cannot be counted ..
      1. +10
        23 March 2022 12: 33
        Quote: max702
        Alas, he is lobbying in the USSR too

        As far as I know, the Mi-28 was not accepted in the USSR. As the Milevites did not insist. They even organized something like a competition. And according to its results, the Ka-50 won. It was only in Russia that the Mi-28 was pushed through. I can be wrong.
        1. +10
          23 March 2022 12: 43
          The MIlevites managed to stop the production of the KA-50 by the fact that they did not allow to expand this very production, engaging in promises of "breakfasts and lunches" because in this case the order for an attack helicopter would be everything .. Read how they prevented the tests in Afghanistan of the KA-29 because it winged like a bull sheep Mi-24y .. It was the Ka-29 that became closest to the concept of a flying infantry fighting vehicle .. But you are lobbying, it is the same everywhere ..
          1. +3
            23 March 2022 14: 55
            Quite right, there was a lot of intrigue between the design bureaus, the Milevites won, although Kamov is better!
          2. 0
            30 March 2022 02: 17
            Quote: max702
            The MIlevites managed to stop the production of the KA-50 by the fact that they did not allow to expand this very production, engaging in promises of "breakfasts and lunches" because in this case the order for an attack helicopter would be everything .. Read how they prevented the tests in Afghanistan of the KA-29 because it winged like a bull sheep Mi-24y .. It was the Ka-29 that became closest to the concept of a flying infantry fighting vehicle .. But you are lobbying, it is the same everywhere ..

            Why write nonsense, the Mi-24 has a fully armored hull, the Ka-29 is only armored in the cabin, in terms of speed there is a difference of almost 100 km, the advantage of the Ka-29 is in size and handling in crosswinds, which is why it is used in the Navy.
            1. 0
              30 March 2022 08: 40
              The Mi-24 armor was considered good: in addition to the overhead armored steel screens on the sides of the pilot's and operator's cockpits (contrary to popular notions, the helicopter's armor was just a bill of lading and was attached to the structure from the outside with screws), the crew was covered with front armored glass of impressive thickness, and the pilot's seat was equipped with an armored back and an armored head. Armor on the hoods also protected the engine units, gearbox and valve body.
              Are you talking about fully armored? Learn the materiel .. The difference in speed is tabular at 50 km as in real life xs ..
              1. 0
                30 March 2022 11: 08
                Quote: max702
                The Mi-24 armor was considered good: in addition to the overhead armored steel screens on the sides of the pilot's and operator's cockpits (contrary to popular notions, the helicopter's armor was just a bill of lading and was attached to the structure from the outside with screws), the crew was covered with front armored glass of impressive thickness, and the pilot's seat was equipped with an armored back and an armored head. Armor on the hoods also protected the engine units, gearbox and valve body.
                Are you talking about fully armored? Learn the materiel .. The difference in speed is tabular at 50 km as in real life xs ..

                You need to learn, there was no talk about the method of attaching the armor. The fact that the armor plates were overhead was not even a question. If you can’t understand that the landing compartment on the Ka 29 is not armored like the Mi 24, then what are we talking about. The speed of Ka 29 250, Mi 24 - 35 -330 km / h is the maximum speed.
                1. 0
                  30 March 2022 12: 58
                  Oh, how he wagged, but nothing that the landing compartment is not armored, like the tail boom? Tyzh said
                  Quote: Havoc
                  Why write nonsense, the Mi-24 has a fully armored body,
                  Your words?
                  The speed of the MI-24 is 350 in a dive, and so is the KA-29 Maximum speed in level flight: 280 km / h MI-24 Maximum speed in level flight: 335 km / h so you have everything ... Learn the materiel!
                  1. 0
                    30 March 2022 15: 17
                    Quote: max702
                    Oh, how he wagged, but nothing that the landing compartment is not armored, like the tail boom? Tyzh said
                    Quote: Havoc
                    Why write nonsense, the Mi-24 has a fully armored body,
                    Your words?
                    The speed of the MI-24 is 350 in a dive, and so is the KA-29 Maximum speed in level flight: 280 km / h MI-24 Maximum speed in level flight: 335 km / h so you have everything ... Learn the materiel!
                    I don’t even want to comment.
                    But what about Afghanistan, where Ka would supposedly bend Mi
                    In addition, in 1987 and 1988, 2 crashes occurred with the "twenty-ninths" - during a training flight over the sea and when taking off from a ship. All this led to the fact that the Ka-29 was operated mainly from ground airfields. The Ka-29 was adopted only in 1987, how it could compete with the Mi-24 is not clear.

                    In 1987, the "twenty-ninth" tried to run in combat conditions in Afghanistan. At the Uzbek airfield in Chirchik, the Ka-29 was actively practiced for combat use, but the Kamov machines were not allowed into Afghanistan
                    1. 0
                      30 March 2022 16: 54
                      That's right, KB Mil fell to the bone, but the Ka-29 was not allowed into Afghanistan because after that the office could be closed .. Now the KA-52 has proved everything to everyone, although the conclusions were made after Syria ..
                      On the first point, I see no objections ..
                      For disasters with MI-24, I think it’s better not to raise materials ..
                      1. 0
                        30 March 2022 20: 13
                        Quote: max702
                        That's right, KB Mil fell to the bone, but the Ka-29 was not allowed into Afghanistan because after that the office could be closed .. Now the KA-52 has proved everything to everyone, although the conclusions were made after Syria ..
                        On the first point, I see no objections ..
                        For disasters with MI-24, I think it’s better not to raise materials ..


                        On the first point, I see no objections
                        .Seriously, even the speed is 50 km / h higher, this gives a tremendous advantage, the fact that the Mi 24 gondola is fully armored is the second indisputable plus, and the fact that the Ka 29 was produced for only a little over three years also says a lot. After 1991, the Ka 29 concept did not develop from the word at all.
      2. +4
        24 March 2022 00: 55
        I agree with you and it seems like a custom article, after discussing the Ka 52 and how it saved the lives of the crews.
    4. +4
      23 March 2022 13: 01
      Foreign analogues have not met with such an air defense density, in any case, I don’t remember. Admittedly, NATO is full of funds. And it would be interesting to see a doctor in a similar situation
      1. +4
        23 March 2022 13: 02
        On the Doctor of course, t9 reptile
        1. +6
          23 March 2022 13: 22
          Anyway, T9 is a bastard !!!! laughing
  4. +17
    23 March 2022 05: 25
    There are a lot of photos and videos on the network on the actions of the Ka-52, And very very few Mi-28s.
    Little use or other reasons?
    1. +1
      23 March 2022 06: 37
      Quote: YOUR
      There are a lot of photos and videos on the network on the actions of the Ka-52, And very very few Mi-28s.
      Little use or other reasons?

      Difficult to shoot at night lol
      1. +6
        23 March 2022 06: 55
        So others are used both day and night. The reason must be sought elsewhere.
      2. -2
        23 March 2022 10: 32
        Quote: your1970
        Difficult to shoot at night

        Look at the Pendos videos of Apache's night work.
        1. 0
          23 March 2022 11: 22
          Strong link - all you need to do is register on YouTube ...
          I'm not there and I don't want to
          1. 0
            23 March 2022 11: 28
            Quote: your1970
            strong link-

            Adult videos only. There is a camera with a thermal imager, and Apache is active.
            1. -2
              23 March 2022 12: 13
              Light spots on a dark background? We don’t know who we don’t need a video of the execution (as the Americans filmed in those videos I saw) - and the other side cannot shoot from the ground at night
              1. +1
                23 March 2022 12: 25
                Quote: your1970
                Light spots on a dark background?

                Yes, yes, it’s useless for you (according to the experience of communication) to prove something. laughing
                But fortunately, your obstinacy does not affect the facts - with the help of a high-quality thermal imager, night shooting is very detailed. This is easy to verify even from the video of the night hunting for the beast.
                1. 0
                  23 March 2022 15: 13
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  This is easy to check even from the video of night hunting for an animal.

                  Distance, not?
                  100 meters hunting - it's a little NOT helicopter fire opening distance.

                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  quality thermal imager

                  I looked at the border guard "Sych" (about 6 years ago) - yes, qualitatively, at 150 meters you can see quite clearly even relatively small details. Further 300 meters - a very so-so picture.
                  Perhaps the Apaches have some kind of super-duper high-quality equipment - I don’t know. I didn’t fly them ...
                  What usually went in their videos -
                  Quote: your1970
                  Light spots on a dark background
                  - quality I did not see.
                  I repeat - a question of distance. At 500 meters, a person looks like an ant during the day
    2. +9
      23 March 2022 09: 19
      On the Ka-52 there is Vitebsk, on the Mi-28 it is not. That's why they don't set him up under the Stingers.
  5. +15
    23 March 2022 06: 00
    The heroic actions of the crews of our helicopters are a consequence of the short-sightedness, greed, and thieving of their superiors.
    Why were they sent to storm the positions of the Ukrainians, why didn’t Outposts, Orions, Lancets walk in front of them and didn’t knock out all the anti-aircraft guns? And because they don't exist.
    1. +7
      23 March 2022 10: 46
      The heroic actions of the crews of our helicopters are a consequence of the short-sightedness, greed, and thieving of their superiors.
      Why were they sent to storm the positions of the Ukrainians, why didn’t Outposts, Orions, Lancets walk in front of them and didn’t knock out all the anti-aircraft guns? And because they don't exist.

      Well, there is no need to arrange a couch earthquake here again. If you are talking about the operation in Gostomel, then in addition to the MZA there were MANPADS operators. And in order to "knock out" the disguised crew of the Arrow or Stinger, neither Outpost nor Orion is enough. Here and TV-2 the gut is thin. A participant in that operation said that in order to open the fire weapons of the enemy, he had to call fire on himself.
      This is my personal opinion, but in Gostomel there was a tactic for the efficiency of the landing operation. Otherwise, the non-brothers would have dragged reinforcements with heavy weapons there, and instead of a pair of wrecked Ka-52s, all 4 squadrons of helicopters could have burned down and the entire landing force could lie down.
      1. -10
        23 March 2022 11: 30
        Quote: Ka-52
        A participant in that operation said,

        I was told from there that there is a shortage of pilots. Did your source cover this topic?
        1. +8
          23 March 2022 12: 25
          I was told from there that there is a shortage of pilots.

          you can tell a lot from there. For example, that the Russian army, ragged and hungry, surrenders en masse to the victorious Ukrainian soldiers. That there is not a single whole maternity hospital and kindergarten left in Ukraine, because Russian missiles brazenly ignore the locations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and hunt only for women in childbirth. And also that Zelensky really deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.
          You listen to the main thing, do not miss anything
          1. -7
            23 March 2022 12: 29
            Quote: Ka-52
            You listen to the main thing, do not miss anything

            And then Ostap suffered ....
            And the question was quite simple. Yes/no, and only. And "from there" - this is from our side, and it is from your colleagues (if your former (!) Profession is related to the topic of discussion).
            1. +10
              23 March 2022 12: 54
              no, there are no problems with the pilots.
  6. +12
    23 March 2022 06: 00
    However, the lion's share of media materials from Ukraine is occupied by the Ka-52. Mi-28N rarely appears in reports. I wonder what it is connected with?
  7. +21
    23 March 2022 06: 09
    Ukrainian Mi-24 shot down on video
    https://topcor.ru/24612-unichtozhennyj-zenitnoj-raketoj-pod-kievom-mi-24-okazalsja-ukrainskim-vertoletom.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru
    1. +2
      23 March 2022 06: 57
      The editing of the video is made in such a way as to complicate the identification of the aircraft as much as possible!
  8. -7
    23 March 2022 08: 05
    "Urya!! Urya!" - Shouted the young ladies and threw caps into the air! I am changing 2 Ka-52 and Mi-24 in addition to one Mi-28! fellow
    1. +2
      23 March 2022 13: 26
      Risk Nikolaevich!
      Now half of the “hamsters” will announce you as an agent of “Ukraine”, and the second of the “Kremlin” will happily downvote you!!! drinks
      1. +1
        23 March 2022 13: 49
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Risk Nikolaevich!

        And I, as my fellow student at the institute! When we did not sleep at night, preparing for tomorrow's exam, he also did not sleep "for company" with us; but did not prepare, but drank vodka and offered us! When we told him that tomorrow morning he would be "bo-bo", he got up in a theatrical and proud pose and "recited": "I don't care to suffer or enjoy!" wink
        1. +1
          23 March 2022 17: 46
          I wonder if the “comrade” passed the exam or not?
          1. +1
            23 March 2022 18: 25
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            did the “comrade” pass the exam or not?

            I don't remember that exam! In general, his teachers pulled him "by the ears" ... he was everyone's favorite, as an amateur humorist!
            1. +1
              24 March 2022 07: 13
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              did the “comrade” pass the exam or not?

              I don't remember that exam! In general, his teachers pulled him "by the ears" ... he was everyone's favorite, as an amateur humorist!

              So think about what is better - "to be a clown or to mow like a clown"!
              Happy soul "in the company single-handedly used" vodka "- apparently more than once and got crusts"!!!
    2. +1
      23 March 2022 20: 54
      I am changing 2 Ka-52 and Mi-24 in addition to one Mi-28!

      keep the fool! 3 helicopters for 1 :)
      1. +1
        23 March 2022 21: 07
        Quote: alexmach
        keep the fool! 3 helicopters for 1

        This is not eccentricity, but a struggle for quality! tongue
        1. +1
          24 March 2022 00: 01
          Yes, something I doubt that there any of the helicopters would have such an advantage in quality that would justify such a quantitative ratio. Don't take it as a bore :)
  9. +7
    23 March 2022 08: 05
    There is something to criticize, of course. Yes, you are afraid to open your mouth once again, so as not to run into an article. Well, times, comrades.
    1. 0
      23 March 2022 13: 14
      Quote: DominickS
      There is something to criticize, of course. Yes, you are afraid to open your mouth once again, so as not to run into an article. Well, times, comrades.

      And what about the "article"?
      Both helicopters have their fans who are ready to argue and give examples for their favorites!
      There is another category of comrades who "used" these pieces of iron and even those who participated in their "design". Discussion of the advantages and disadvantages of our rotorcraft will not entail bringing to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation!
      And if someone will cast a shadow over the participation of our guys in a special operation in Ukraine, then you are welcome to "do not be offended."
  10. +2
    23 March 2022 08: 14
    Why exactly for helicopters? It's simple: aircraft are practically expanse, because the Air Force and Air Defense of Ukraine suffered very heavy losses and practically cannot have the slightest sane effect on the situation.
    Unfortunately, Western guardians are trying to help their wards! It can get pretty annoying....
    By the way, attack aircraft, and even helicopters, are not so easy even now .... there are MANPADS, there will be more and more, that's for sure.
  11. 0
    23 March 2022 08: 17
    "Night Hunter" he is good because it can be used at night. The day is a very unpleasant time for a helicopter and its crew. The helicopter is visible, and therefore the MANPADS operator can catch it in the sight of his weapon and launch a rocket.
    But this, for now or in general, is a serious problem .... working effectively at night is an advantage.
    1. 0
      23 March 2022 10: 37
      Quote: rocket757
      work effectively at night, this is an advantage.

      I heard that Stingers are now adapted to be used with thermal imagers. In this case, the advantage flies off. request
      1. +2
        23 March 2022 11: 02
        Everything has its limitations ... nothing is absolutely safe in military affairs.
  12. -6
    23 March 2022 08: 18
    The helicopter does not have the means to combat the Stingers, from the word in general, there is only one defense: the timely detection of MANPADS operators and destruction.
    1. +2
      23 March 2022 11: 11
      And they said that "President-S" is already being installed on helicopters and it is effective. In any case, for civil aviation, "Ukraine" has become a no-fly zone for a long time.
      1. +3
        23 March 2022 12: 20
        For decades, for sure, but even in Russia I would be afraid to board a plane now, either a saboteur will let the stinger in, or the Boeing will turn off all the electrics on the plane already at altitude, which is by the way with the Chinese Boeing.
        1. 0
          23 March 2022 12: 38
          For now, it's conspiracy theories. If it turns out that Boeings are unsafe, they will stop flying around the world. This is the most common aircraft.
          1. -1
            23 March 2022 14: 02
            It's not specifically about the Boeing, even modern cars involve the function of remote intervention, and the plane is finally a difficult electronic thing and turn everything off, finally everything in your planes can be Airbus and other unfriendly countries, you need to fly on your planes.
            1. +2
              23 March 2022 16: 58
              :)) The magic hat is not enough, to get planes out of it.
      2. -1
        26 March 2022 09: 16
        President-S is complete bullshit made to suppress the Needle, which simply does not have guidance on the ultraviolet trail. They made protection against their obsolete weapons, well done.
        1. +1
          27 March 2022 13: 23
          It is somehow doubtful that the exhaust of a helicopter contains an ultraviolet spectrum. There they tried to reduce the infrared with ejectors.
          1. -1
            27 March 2022 20: 57
            Any engine has ultraviolet radiation, by the way, President-S detects missiles using it. It is by ultraviolet radiation, along with infrared, that the Stinger is induced, and thanks to this, heat traps are useless.
            1. +1
              28 March 2022 15: 55
              Rocket exhaust is a jet stream that has a high temperature, glowing in other words. Heat traps can also be made luminous, most likely they are.
              1. +1
                29 March 2022 19: 42
                In ultraviolet, unfortunately, you can’t bend, it’s not just a light spot like in infrared light. That is why our latest samples were also equipped with ultraviolet guidance.
            2. 0
              23 May 2022 22: 23
              The stingers of the republics went to the trap of mi8 Ukrainians flying from Azovstal. This is in the reports and polls of the downed shooter mi8
        2. 0
          28 March 2022 21: 37
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          along the ultraviolet track.

          This, excuse me, from which section of "banal entropy"?
          I heard about radiation, though to create noticeable radiation you need such a good source ...
          The most powerful source of UV during the day is the sun. I admit a fairly powerful radiation of reflected ultraviolet from the side, but what should be the sensitivity of the seeker?
          Explain, plz, where and where does the "ultraviolet trace" lead and how does Stinger sniff it?
  13. 0
    23 March 2022 08: 42
    But for helicopters, whose main enemies are still MANPADS and MZA, and which do not fly at such altitudes as airplanes, everything just continues.

    In order not to fall under the fire of MANPADS, our helicopters fly very low, while they can come under fire from small arms, but the armor saves, although there are non-critical holes in unprotected places.
  14. +7
    23 March 2022 08: 47
    Currently, the Mi-28N is waiting for an update in the form of new 9M120D Ataka-D ATGMs, in which the range will be increased to 8 km.
    And how many years does it take? And why only up to 8 km? When there is and up to 10 km!
    9M120 - Ataka guided anti-tank missile with a tandem HEAT warhead. Range 6000 m. Armor penetration of warheads - at least 800 millimeters of homogeneous armor with dynamic protection (along the normal to the surface) [15] [16]. The design of the tandem warhead is retractable.
    9M120F - a version of the rocket equipped with a combined warhead - high-explosive and volumetric detonating action. Designed to destroy fortified firing points, defensive structures, lightly armored and unarmored vehicles, sheltered manpower. High explosive warhead - up to 9,5 kg (TNT equivalent) [16].
    9M120F-1 - modification of a rocket with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead;
    9М220 - range 6 000 m;
    9M220O (9-A-2200) - a modification of a missile with a rod warhead to destroy aircraft. Range 7 m.[000]
    9M120-1 - ATGM with tandem cumulative warhead;
    9M120-1F - UR with a high-explosive warhead with ODS (see "Weapons of Russia" (2012 edition));
    9M120-1F-1 - a modification of a high-explosive fragmentation warhead with a proximity fuse, which allows you to destroy not only equipment and engineering structures, but also manpower, including those protected by body armor, and also guaranteed to hit the target even when the missile passes at some distance .[eighteen];

    9M120M - ATGM with tandem warhead, armor penetration 950 mm behind the DZ, range 8 m[000][19];
    9M120D - ATGM "Ataka-D" with a range of up to 10 m [000].



    Anti-tank "Ataka-V" with a 9M120V missile controlled by radio, which is much more effective than laser guidance,
    And the men in the Moscow Region don’t even know about it! Otherwise, why would there be a variant of the "Attack" with a combined guidance system (radio command + laser)? Yes! Here's another! And why did the Ministry of Defense take care of the unification of helicopter weapons and now the Mi-28N can fire laser "Whirlwinds" ?! (Or maybe not only "Whirlwinds"; but also "Chrysanthemums", Cornets-UAVs"?)
    Classic NAR S-57 (caliber 57 mm)
    And who told me that now attack helicopters have not been flying from the S-5 for a long time? Lied, bastards? angry
    "Crossbow" can "see" free-standing trees, power poles and even wires. And if information from the IR station is added to the radar, it becomes clear that the helicopter crew can feel even safer at night than during the day.
    And why did the Mi-28N have to be finalized after being tested in Syria in real combat conditions? "Evil tongues" gossip that this is just, mainly, due to the revealed imperfection of the "night" equipment! Now we have to replace the Mi-28N with the Mi-28NM ...
    1. -4
      23 March 2022 10: 01
      If someone considers NAR obsolete weapons, then only one thing can be said in response: how and for whom to use. In fact, if a group of helicopters, say, of 4 units, fires five thousand S-57s at an object like "artillery regiment positions", then what will remain of the positions after that?

      Here on TacticMedia I watched a video from the series "We fought in Afghanistan". And one of our pilots, who fought in this country, told a story when he fired NURSs at a camel caravan. So they all just fled in different directions unharmed. That's the "efficiency".
      1. +3
        23 March 2022 11: 11
        There, probably, were 57 mm. Due to the insufficient radius of destruction and low power on the duvals, they switched to 80 mm.
      2. +2
        23 March 2022 11: 37
        Quote: musketone64
        NURS fired at the camel caravan. So they all just fled in different directions unharmed. That's the "efficiency".

        At our firing range, 10 sheep wandered by accident.
        Komeska MI-8x put 1 (!!) S-8 ...
        they say kebab-mashlyk and there is nothing to eat at home again (90s)
        From the whole heap of meat, the fighters barely gained 10-12 kilograms. The rest was mixed and cut with fragments / fragments of bones.
        His crews grumbled for a long time afterwards - they ate meat, yeah ...
        1. 0
          23 March 2022 11: 54
          Komeska MI-8x put 1(!!) S-8.

          But the lambs go huddled in one curly pile. And with a successful hit, this can happen. The caravan of camels is led into a "column one by one". A package of NURSs scattered in all directions around the caravan without killing a single camel. Most likely, their effectiveness is the same in dispersed infantry and especially hiding behind the folds of the terrain. To be honest, I don’t remember what kind of shells (57 or 80 mm) the helicopter pilot told me about. But the fact itself took place.
          1. 0
            23 March 2022 11: 59
            Quote: musketone64
            But the lambs go huddled in one curly pile

            This is when they are chased by shepherds or dogs. Lost people hiss grass quite apart from each other.
            Of course, this is not infantry or camels - but still the target is not very compact
          2. -4
            23 March 2022 12: 47
            Quote: musketone64
            A package of NURSs scattered in all directions around the caravan without killing a single camel.

            Camels, probably, were in wadded bathrobes! Yes I read that the S-5s were ineffective against spooks in wadded robes (in winter? what ), because small fragments of C-5 got stuck in the cotton of bathrobes ... request
            1. 0
              23 March 2022 17: 17
              Camels, probably, were in wadded bathrobes!

              Or in body armor and helmets! smile
      3. 0
        23 March 2022 16: 01
        they simply fled in different directions unharmed.
        Lucky camels got caught wassat Yes, and they are tough animals.
        1. +2
          23 March 2022 17: 32
          Here are some, reports on NUR P-5.
          Having shot enough from a helicopter, I will stop at them. There are features here.
          The accuracy of the NAR application is highly dependent on the initial speed, and for a helicopter it is four times less than the aircraft speed. Gliding has a great influence, and for a helicopter, 15 degrees is not the limit. Well, vibrations. As a result, the accuracy of using NAR from a helicopter is an order of magnitude worse than from an airplane. (from the forum)
          However, the lethality of S-5 missiles was low, especially when used against protected targets. The high-explosive action of unguided rockets containing only 200 g of explosive was weak, often C-5s got stuck in the clay of walls and duvals. Light fragments retained their destructive power only a few meters away, at the end they could not even penetrate the thick cotton robes of the "targets", the reports noted "high survivability of targets when hit by fragmentation ammunition."
      4. 0
        23 March 2022 18: 24
        A camel is a strong animal and is ready for a bullet, but here are fragments.
  15. +7
    23 March 2022 08: 58
    The Mi-28n may not be bad, but apparently the Ka-52 is better. That's what they mostly use.
    Already the survival rate of the crew of the Ka-52 is a cut above.
  16. +6
    23 March 2022 09: 08
    In the video you presented, the Ukrainian MI-24 pilot, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Marinyak.
    It seems like even the Armed Forces of Ukraine officially recognized this (although on the "truthful" publics and news feeds of both Ukraine and "democratic" countries they still say that this is a Russian helicopter)
    1. +2
      23 March 2022 10: 25
      An unprecedented embarrassment is observed in the Ukrainian media. For two weeks, they actively distributed a video on the Web, which showed the moment of the defeat of the Mi-24 helicopter by an anti-aircraft guided missile. They claimed that the footage showed the destruction of the Russian helicopter by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. However, the coloring of the board raised big questions.


      After some time, the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine officially confirmed the death of the crew of the Ukrainian Mi-24 near Kiev in early March - the pilot, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Marinyak and the operator, Captain Ivan Bezzub. The video below shows this episode. (Topcor.ru)




      After that, the Ukrainian media changed the tone of the presentation of the material. They drew attention to the publication of Vasily Mulik on the social network Facebook, a friend of the deceased Marynyak, who provided details.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. +1
    23 March 2022 10: 41
    Everything is fine, one question is how many of them are in the troops? I saw one. I mean with the overhead radar.
    1. +4
      23 March 2022 11: 14
      I watch the news on the "Star" - the 28th with the overhead flicker sporadically. But the impression is that the Alligators work mainly with the support of the Crocodiles.
    2. +1
      23 March 2022 12: 01
      There are not a few of them ... but in Korenovsk I regularly see flying ... in pairs. In principle, all radars can be omitted if there is data exchange.
  19. -3
    23 March 2022 11: 03
    Along with criticism, it is necessary to understand what solutions will become even more breakthrough in order to create combat vehicles. And such solutions will be the transition from blades to new propellers, which are not scattered by the huge sizes of rotating surfaces. Which will significantly increase the payload and the ability to fly faster and longer and hover for a long period of time without increasing fuel consumption and engine loads.
    1. +2
      23 March 2022 11: 40
      Quote: gridasov
      there will be a transition from blades to new propellers that are not scattered by the huge dimensions of the rotating surfaces.

      Quote: gridasov
      significantly increase the payload

      Quote: gridasov
      the ability to fly faster and longer

      Quote: gridasov
      hang for a long period of time without increasing fuel consumption

      Total one the problem needs to be solved - where to find the gravitsapa for the pepelats .....
      1. 0
        25 March 2022 16: 30
        If I survive, I will give everything and explain. And all that you have named leave fantasies to dreamers
        1. 0
          25 March 2022 18: 28
          Quote: gridasov
          leave the dreamer's fantasy

          Actually, it screwed you up.
          Quote: gridasov
          even more breakthrough
          1. 0
            28 March 2022 21: 50
            Leave gridasova! otherwise you won't be beaten! Yes, and he will give out a terrible secret to the enemy, how to make a space helicopter that does not consume physical fuel.
            Feed it with "big data" streams...
            Fuck us!
  20. +5
    23 March 2022 11: 26
    Intercompany competition for the Ka-50/52 and Mi-28/28* has been going on since the 1980s, and it seems that there is no end in sight (((((((((
    ©"Only when EVERYONE dies, will the Great Game end"...
    There seem to be more claims to the Mi-28 in the troops, including Syria and Aviadarts. But the production capacity is stronger, the PR is cheeky, the lobby is shameless, you can add to taste.
    Part of the behind-the-scenes story is described in the book of a test pilot of the Kamovskaya firm (I read it "on paper", I can't remember the author or the name, nor can I quickly find the book). A summary of such a plan. The attitude of OKB im. Kamova: "Fighters, what else do you need?"; OKB im. Mile: "Eat what they give, you still have nowhere to go."
    The mere fact that the 28th looks like Apache, with the change of the chassis scheme traditional for Mil, personally turns me away from this car.
    1. 0
      29 March 2022 10: 26
      Changing the chassis scheme greatly facilitates the maintenance of the machine. A perfectly reasonable decision.
    2. 0
      April 24 2022 10: 21
      I'm SO naughty...

      G. I. Kuznetsov "Strength test", Moscow, POLYGON PRE, 2005, circulation 2000 copies.
  21. +1
    23 March 2022 11: 28
    Specialists, but the fact that this is a Ukrainian turntable, only one wrote. The war has been going on for a month, and there is nothing but an analysis of hohloss links, where the same cars are shown from different angles. grand presentation in 2007 with a set of old photos - is this an analysis? there is not even an analysis of the actions of 28 in Syria. Some fairy tales, no specifics. If there is nothing to write - DO NOT WRITE.
    1. -3
      23 March 2022 16: 07
      To those who are supposed to write and read reports on combat use. Why do you need to know this if you have nothing to do with it??
  22. +2
    23 March 2022 12: 00
    Considering that the avionics and weapons thought of standardizing both Mi and Ka, it is interesting to compare them, like aircraft. Cost, number of maintenance (cost of ownership) and performance characteristics. And the main mistake of our entire defense industry: they compare two helicopters (with a different scheme) and different avionics on them and different weapons ..
    Select one aircraft, select one avionics, select anti-tank systems (in our case, the 2nd and 3rd generation) and do it in bulk. It is also desirable to make a transport Mi8 using the maximum possible number of components from the drummer. (if earlier MI24 was made on Mi8 units, then the latest versions of Mi28NM went ahead)
    1. +2
      23 March 2022 13: 52
      Maybe you still have an objective competition there before being put into service and production? Or maybe organize independent control over the execution of the TOR?
      1. +1
        23 March 2022 15: 18
        The Mi28 and Ka52 aircraft itself .... development years of the 80s ... the costs of R & D have long been written off in Soviet rubles. There are no special secrets here, and the state should think that way.
  23. -3
    23 March 2022 12: 28
    It's simple: aircraft are practically expanse, because the Air Force and Air Defense of Ukraine suffered very heavy losses

    Why write such nonsense? If the planes had expanse, strikes on warehouses and barracks would not have to be carried out by "Caliber" and "Daggers". It would be cheaper to send Tu-95 or Tu-22M with a couple of tens of tons of iron bombs.
    1. 0
      23 March 2022 14: 53
      Why write such nonsense? If the planes had expanse, strikes on warehouses and barracks would not have to be carried out by "Caliber" and "Daggers".

      And did a lot of the Air Force / Air Defense of Ukraine shoot down Kalibs or Kinzhals?
      It would be cheaper to send Tu-95 or Tu-22M with a couple of tens of tons of iron bombs.

      Is not a fact. Here you have to count. It may well turn out that the cost of sorties and the cost of the weapons required for this will exceed the cost of one cruise missile.
      1. -5
        23 March 2022 15: 01
        Quote: Brylevsky
        And did a lot of the Air Force / Air Defense of Ukraine shoot down Kalibs or Kinzhals?

        Do not know. We are discussing "expanse" for aircraft.

        Quote: Brylevsky
        It may well turn out that the cost of sorties and the cost of the weapons required for this will exceed the cost of one cruise missile.

        No, it won't work. Tu-95s are flying a lot these days. But over Russia. Cast iron bombs in our warehouses are strategic stocks, with the expectation of the Third World War.
  24. +3
    23 March 2022 13: 20
    For a helicopter that was created not as part of an armaments program, but as an initiative of Mil Design Bureau employees, it is simply magical.
    In the year 76, as far as I remember from the literature, a competition was announced for a new attack helicopter. And by the 80th, the TK was finally approved. And where is the initiative?
  25. 0
    23 March 2022 14: 24
    Attack helicopter Mi-28N: try to criticize
    Yes Easy . Outdated electronics. It is obsolete in the helicopter and in its armament. And this is the detection range and the destruction range. Compare specifications. And questions will disappear.
    1. 0
      29 March 2022 10: 17
      Let's just say - in these conditions, the existing characteristics are quite enough. But it needs to be improved.
      1. 0
        29 March 2022 12: 43
        Dear ! The war is on, out of place for criticism. Let me just say, from the three places where I started my working activity. Not one is in working order. People who made money on the collapse. They left the other day. All that is in the defense industry is Soviet thoughts that have not been implemented. In an industrial sense, the situation is worse than in 1945. Hats can be thrown into the air. But reality is painful. And they don't like that on this site. Don't act like a minor. To pretend to be blind, deaf. We saw tablets from Chubais. His as was not, and is not. Give me a minus on the right. Sign up for liberals. The reality of this does not change.
  26. -1
    23 March 2022 14: 46
    The helicopter is not visible at night. Yes, it is, of course, audible, but MANPADS are not yet able to work on sound. They still need to catch the heat of the engine, and for this, whatever one may say, they need visual contact.

    I don't see any problem with this. MANPADS can be equipped with a thermal imaging sight. If the target is observed in the thermal imager, then the missile's homing head can also capture it. And then it will already be "like a drum", during the day it happened, or at night. At night, there is even less interference for the homing head. I believe that this remark of the author of the article is not valid.
  27. +3
    23 March 2022 15: 57
    I'll put in my three cents.
    The ka-50 and ka-52 project was born after the USSR Ministry of Defense rejected the initiative development of the KAMOVA Design Bureau
    Right now, I forgot the shirf of that product .. like v-100 chtoli ...
    it was a type of percussion apparatus with two screws that were located at the edges of small wings.
    The design turned out to be too revolutionary and it was rejected at the stage of preliminary design.
    It was too much out of the typical projects of ours and foreign ones.
    The developments were used in the work on the Ka-50.
    As a student, I read materials on this appart.
    And even then, the Mil Design Bureau put obstacles to the Kamovites with might and main - they say your subject is the sea and sit there, you don’t need to climb onto our lawn.
  28. 0
    23 March 2022 16: 09
    The author apparently made a typo, indicating 1996 as the year of the attempt to free the hostages in Iran ..
  29. 0
    23 March 2022 17: 31
    The video cited by the author is the shooting down of the Ukrainian MI-24, the pilot was later named on the network. It was, it seems, March 1 (or 8).
    1. 0
      23 March 2022 19: 32
      In the Mi-28, the gun is too far from the center of gravity of the helicopter, this critically reduces the accuracy of fire, it is better to change it to some kind of machine gun
  30. -2
    24 March 2022 07: 46
    Mi-28 - a big-nosed freak
    Ka-52 in terms of design is a one-piece, complete example of engineering art
    I talked with the one who manufactures the Ka-52. They were completely at a loss when it turned out that the Mi-28 was preferred. Because everything is EVERYTHING! - spoke in favor of giving preference to the Kamov option and making it the main one in the troops
    1. +1
      27 March 2022 20: 40
      Those who made the Ka-52 forgot to put screen-exhaust devices on the nozzles of its turboshaft engines. To date, five Ka-52s have been lost in the air during a special military operation in Ukraine. The Mi-28N / Mi-28UB, on which everything is in order with screen-exhaust devices mixing the exhaust of turboshaft engines with cold outside air, has no confirmed losses in the air, two vehicles were damaged on the ground by rocket fire at the airfield.
      1. IVZ
        0
        April 22 2022 12: 52
        On the Ka-52, the EVUs are initially the same as on the Ka-50, where they also stand initially. They're just different designs, but they're there.
        1. 0
          1 May 2022 20: 23
          It:


          Works much worse than this:
        2. 0
          1 May 2022 20: 46
          "On the first machines, the screen-exhaust devices were located behind the engines, and their air intakes were above the engine nacelles. During flight tests, the screen-exhaust devices were reconfigured and the gas jets from them, mixed with cold air, now began to flow not sideways, as it was before, but down. This, in turn, further reduced the likelihood of hitting the car with infrared homing missiles. " N. Yakubovich "Military helicopter Mi-28"
  31. 0
    24 March 2022 10: 08
    It follows from the article that it is necessary to have two Mi-28 and Ka-52 helicopters.
  32. 0
    28 March 2022 16: 06
    Let's look at the design of the tail rotor. It is double, spaced, tandem, so to speak. This is done to reduce noise, but I suspect that it has better efficiency. This is due to the superimposition of vortices in the tandem scheme. By this principle, you can make the main rotor. This requires experimentation, but at the initial stage it can be simulated in a digital environment.
    1. 0
      29 March 2022 10: 13
      The complication of the mechanical part will negate all the advantages.
      1. 0
        31 March 2022 19: 43
        You can not complicate. The screws are on the same axis, the drive of the deflection machine is made immediately on two blades. There, the spacing is not in angle, but in the distance between the ends of the blades. This is simpler than a twin screw coaxial circuit.
  33. 0
    29 March 2022 10: 12
    What can be extinguished there at a height of more than 30m? No chairs will save. Alas.
    1. 0
      31 March 2022 19: 50
      You can bring the chairs to a horizontal position and inflate the ballonette from below, as when landing an infantry fighting vehicle.
  34. +1
    29 March 2022 15: 10
    What do we see today. In the face of opposition from a large number of MANPADS, both Soviet-made and, above all, the US-made Stinger, attack helicopters of the Russian Aerospace Forces perform their assigned tasks of destroying equipment and strongholds of the Ukrainian army. Of course there are losses, but they are far from critical. Russian attack helicopters have clearly shown high combat effectiveness, good pilot training, helicopter armament has also shown a high potential. It is clear that the tactics of use in conditions of high opposition from enemy air defense are constantly being improved in order to minimize losses. In general, attack helicopters have shown excellent results.
  35. +1
    April 2 2022 01: 38
    No need for Roman to scribble ... Whatever the essay, almost immediately after a minute of fame, evil arrives. In short, 28 rubbish, no matter how you lick it. Expensive and useless if the enemy has MANPADS. Yesterday they posted a video of how they cut down one just from the stinger. Well the pilots survived. There is no protection against MANPADS or you work only on paper. Not even shooting traps. Against this background, the 52s equipped with KAZ are simply ubercars, according to pilots.
  36. IVZ
    0
    April 22 2022 12: 46
    In the illustrations of the Mi-28A. A gun. Ammunition: Mi-28 - 250 rounds; Ka-52 - 450 rounds Apache -1200 shots Shooting from a cannon at large angles of mismatch between the firing directory and the direction of flight is ineffective, although it is not bad to have such an opportunity. S-5s are used against convoys, manpower, and unarmored vehicles. But as for the over-hull radar, it seems that the Crossbow was chosen for the Ka, and for the Mi - NO-25. Anyone else in the know? kindly enlighten. And at the same time how these stations differ.
  37. 0
    April 27 2022 08: 59
    No chance against a stinger. For low-flying and javelins with UFOs, they work fine.
  38. 0
    23 May 2022 19: 33
    As an illustration, I will cite a video when a rocket from a MANPADS was launched into a helicopter literally at point-blank range (by air standards). The chances were not only scanty for salvation, there is no need to talk about them at all. A second is all. The worst enemy of the helicopter is MANPADS, as I said.

    If the I-153 Chaika fighter-attack aircraft had been in place of the helicopter, it would have been able to maneuver at the same speed and avoid defeat, since it is 10 times lighter and has a wingspan almost 2 times smaller, and a fuselage length of 3. It's time to return these attack aircraft to service, not specifically these, but modernized ones. The best in terms of survival among WWII attack aircraft.
  39. 0
    12 June 2022 11: 26
    Boxes with ribbons are located on the cannon turret, which increases the reliability of the system, since there are no flexible sleeves for supplying shells, the boxes rotate with the gun. Ammunition 250 shells.

    But this is not the best solution, IMHO. Significantly makes the turret heavier and causes a small amount of ammunition for an attack helicopter (Ka-52 - 500 rounds, Apache - up to 650/1300 rounds).
    On the Apache, flexible sleeves and a linkless firing system work fine.
    1. 0
      9 June 2023 09: 21
      It also shifts centering. The charge is full, one, used up, the other. So-so joy.
  40. 0
    6 September 2022 09: 50
    Here's how to increase serial production, the United States will flood the Armed Forces with anti-radar missiles on former Soviet aircraft from NATO.
    You don’t fly much, you need to cover the A-100 and the Su-35 flight or flights are canceled, the other day the S-300 was destroyed with the calculation.
  41. 0
    9 June 2023 09: 20
    Yes, about "shot and forgot", we now regularly see videos. They bang and hang, highlighting the target until they fly. Who calculated the losses because of this?

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