Ka-52. Ruinous perfection

191
Ka-52. Ruinous perfection

The real combat use (Syria is practically not considered, there were episodic cases) Ka-52 shows that this is a really serious combat vehicle. No one questioned this before, especially since one cannot think of a reason for criticism now.

Even those pictures that were published by our information opponents, rather testify in favor of my statement, rather than against it. Yes, the facts of the loss took place, but how - that's the point. But we will return to this below.



And it’s worth starting the review, as always, with a historical digression, since this is how you can get a full understanding of those components that make the Ka-52 such a machine as it really is.

There are many nuances in the case with the Ka-52, the main of which is the inability to ensure normal combat work for the Ka-50 pilot (single-seat machine) at the level of the Mi-28, where two crew members flew. The equipment of that time could not completely replace a person, and therefore, in the depths of the Kamov Design Bureau, the general designer of OKYu S.V. Mikheev decided to start work on creating a reconnaissance and control helicopter based on the Ka-50. This helicopter was supposed to be two-seater and act together with the Ka-50 group as a flying coordination center.

To accomplish the tasks, a complex of optoelectronic and radar equipment was developed. To work with this complex, a second crew member was required, who was decided to be placed next to the pilot, and not behind him, as on the majority of similar machines in the world.

This cockpit layout solved several problems at once, the main of which was to simplify the interaction between crew members during flights in difficult conditions, at low altitudes and during combat operations. In addition, there was no need to duplicate instruments for the navigator-operator.


The new helicopter structurally differed from the Ka-50 only in the cabin, otherwise the designs were 85% identical. The cabin booking system has also been preserved, the total weight of the armor is about 300 kg.

The changes affected mainly filling with various equipment.

The most important feature was the K-37-800 ejection seats, which the designers were able to place in the cockpit for both crew members. When the rescue system is activated, the blades are automatically fired before ejection.

The control of the helicopter was made double, and both the pilot and the navigator-operator could control the machine.

Naturally, the placement of the equipment and another crew member had a negative impact on the performance characteristics of the helicopter. However, the decrease in flight performance caused by the weight of the structure turned out to be possible to offset by installing a higher power engine (VK-2500) and a significant reworking of the nose, which brought the aerodynamics of the Ka-52 to the level of the Ka-50.

The main difference between the Ka-52 and the Ka-50 is avionics and electronics. A number of options for equipping the helicopter were considered, and in the end, the Russian Ministry of Defense settled on an option that significantly enhanced the capabilities of the Ka-52 over the Ka-50.

The heart of the Ka-52 is the Argument-2000 sighting-pilot-navigation system. The complex includes:
- on-board digital computer (BTsVM) "Baguet-53";
- flight and navigation complex PNK-73DM;
- round-the-clock surveillance and flight system TOES-520;
- round-the-clock search and sighting system GOES-451 (connected to the Arbalet radar);
- radar complex "Crossbow-52";
- airborne communication complex BKS-50;
- airborne defense complex "Vitebsk";
- avionics with the use of MFD and helmet-mounted target designation and indication systems (NSCI);
- dual control of the complex, the same for both crew members, grouped on their helicopter controls.

Radar "Arbalet-52" two-channel, with two independent antennas.


The first, located in the bow, serves to search for and attack targets, has a large aperture.


The second antenna is over-the-hub, with a smaller aperture, provides all-round visibility for general airspace control and protection from enemy missiles.

"Crossbow-52" is capable of tracking up to 20 targets, the radar tank "sees" from 12 km, the aircraft - from 15 km. A Stinger-class missile is detected from 5 km. In addition, "Arbalet-52" supplies data to the sighting and navigation systems, warns of obstacles when flying at ultra-low altitudes.

The basis of the flight complex at any time of the day is a surveillance and search system, consisting of the optoelectronic system GOES-451, the night flight system TOES-250 and NSCI, helmet-mounted displays, with which pilots can monitor the situation around the clock. From the position sensors of the pilots' helmets, the head of the TOES is controlled.

GOES-451 includes a thermal imager, cameras with wide and narrow angles of view, a laser rangefinder, laser irradiation sensors. The system allows you to detect targets at a distance of up to 10 km during the day and up to 6 km at night. In addition, GOES-451 receives data from the Arbalet-52 radar. The on-board computer processes the data received from all sources and projects a synthesized image of the target and the terrain both on the displays on the dashboard and on the helmet-mounted displays of the pilots.

Combining all the tools for obtaining information about the environment (radar, thermal imager, laser range finder, cameras) into a single system controlled by an on-board computer with the ability to issue data in a way that is convenient for pilots is a task that the designers were able to solve 100%.


Five LCD monitors on the dashboard, one monitor between the legs of the left pilot, an indicator on the windshield of the left pilot plus helmet screens - all this allows pilots to get the most complete picture of what is happening. The only thing that is still missing is a helmet-mounted target designation system. But even without this, pilots can quite effectively control all the weapons at their disposal.

Separately, it is worth mentioning the protection system L-370V52 of the Vitebsk family.

The system automatically detects irradiation of a laser, radar, missile launch, and in the same mode activates the use of passive interference by firing chaff or heat traps. In addition, the L-370V52 can carry out active protection in the infrared and radio ranges, disrupting missile guidance.


The L-370V52 system can operate completely automatically, informing pilots about the nature of the threat and the direction from which the attack was made. L-370V52 not only identifies threats, but also reports on the countermeasures taken and the means of protection remaining at the disposal of the crew.

The Ka-52 helicopter complex includes:
- control device;
- equipment for detecting laser irradiation;
- ultraviolet direction finders for launching missiles;
- stations of optical-electronic suppression (SOEP);
- devices for emitting passive interference;
- digital active jamming station (DSAP).

TsSAP is designed to set up electromagnetic interference and suppress radar signals of enemy detection and guidance radars, as well as homing heads of guided missiles with RGSN.

Here the question may arise: if helicopters are so effectively protected, then why are there cases of their incapacitation by the enemy during a special operation in Ukraine.

If you carefully study the cases of unplanned landing of three Ka-52s, it becomes clear that the most effective way to destroy helicopters worked: MANPADS. Unfortunately, with all the advantages of the Ka-52, the Stinger-type MANPADS will be very effective against helicopters.

Moreover, the Stinger is more effective against helicopters than against aircraft, since the helicopter operates at low altitudes and at lower speeds, representing an advantageous target.

However, let's look at the photo.


Here it is obvious that the helicopter got to the fullest. This fact is difficult to deny. They slapped the engine from MANPADS and slapped it, obviously, from close range. But what can be seen in the photo?

The blades are not fired, which means that the helicopter either landed normally or in autorotation. There are no signs of ejection. There are no traces of blood and other accompanying factors in the cockpit, that is, the crew, after being hit by a rocket, not only survived, but also survived with the subsequent departure from the landing site.

That is, 300 kg of armor played their role just fine. Which is what we had to prove in this case.

There is no point in reviewing all the pictures that are offered, because sometimes it is difficult to even understand what they were painting in. There were too many options when the facts of painting on or outright profanity surfaced.

Preliminary summary: the protection of the Ka-52 in reality "holds the blow" of the Stinger. And the output is a knockdown. But the crew (the most valuable) will simply receive a new car later and continue their work after the necessary rehabilitation.

Armament. Here it’s just worth saying about not what the Ka-52 has, but how it is.

A gun. 2A42. That is, the same thing that stands on light armored vehicles: BMP-2, BTR-82A, BTR-82AT. Ammunition of 500 30-mm shells, which can be borrowed from anyone if necessary: ​​tankers, motorized riflemen, artillerymen, in short, all ground troops who have 30-mm shells for 2A42 and 2A72 in their warehouses. That is, almost everyone.

Unification is generally always useful.

The gun is movable in two planes, and if necessary, two more can be added to external nodes in container installations. Then in general life below becomes sad. The choice of ammunition is controlled by the operator, selective feeding is a useful thing.


Six suspension units, which can accommodate almost two tons of various weapons, from guided missiles of the Ataka family to anti-aircraft Igla-V.

"Attack" gives two options: anti-tank 9M120-1 with a tandem cumulative warhead and 9M120F-1 with a high-explosive warhead with a volumetric detonating mixture. Everything is very beautiful and without unnecessary frills.

The perspective is here too. Very well, Chrysanthemums, which are a very serious anti-tank weapon, will be used from the Ka-52. weapon. In addition to them, it is planned to adopt the Hermes-A long-range anti-tank missiles and the Ataka-M short-range anti-tank missiles, all-weather and round-the-clock use.

Well, and the NAR S-8 and S-13, which have already become classics.


In total, we have a round-the-clock and year-round helicopter for direct support of troops on the battlefield, capable of attacking any targets. Plus, a fairly well-protected crew, working with modern means of detection and target designation.

Of course, the Ka-52 cannot be without enemies. But as practice has shown in Syria (very limited in number and time) and in a special operation in Ukraine, this is a modern vehicle for modern combat, capable of providing sufficient support to its troops on the ground.

It is today that we can observe in video reports and draw conclusions about how successful this helicopter turned out to be. The intensity of use and frankly small losses indicate that when suppressing large air defense systems and fighter aviation of the enemy, the Ka-52 can solve the tasks of ensuring the security of transport columns, performing landing operations and air cover for any offensive actions of the army almost around the clock.

This is not to say that this is the fastest, most equipped or most heavily armed helicopter in the world. It's not even about the numbers of speed or the amount of ammunition on board. The point here is how harmoniously everything is combined in one single machine.


Power-to-weight ratio, avionics, electronics, electronic warfare, armor, rescue equipment, weapons, reliability - all this was quite successfully combined into the Ka-52. And it is in this harmony that the strength of this machine lies.
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  1. -18
    21 March 2022 04: 36
    The second antenna is over-the-hub, with a smaller aperture, provides all-round visibility for general airspace control and protection from enemy missiles.
    The cylinder practically closed by the lower leg of the technique is an antenna ?! M - miniaturization. although I don’t believe about the Stinger from 5 km, not such a crumb.
    1. +23
      21 March 2022 05: 02
      Undoubtedly, a good car. But anything happens in a war, you can get ambushed and be shot down over enemy territory, or shot down and return to bases. That's what the war is for.
      1. +20
        21 March 2022 06: 01
        Cool review! The car is fantastic!
      2. +37
        21 March 2022 06: 55
        Quote: Borik
        you can be ambushed and be shot down over enemy territory,

        Isn’t this the same helicopter that landed on a forced landing in the Gastomel area and the crew took up defense until the rescue board approached? Judging by the density of fire, I’m just stunned that there were no losses except for one side. MI-24. Russians know how to fight like their fathers and grandfathers.
        1. +7
          21 March 2022 08: 09
          that one remained on the chassis, and this one lies on the belly
          1. AML
            +7
            21 March 2022 09: 22
            The one on the right side did not have a landing gear. The pilot said it. Therefore, he could not fully sit on the chassis
          2. +4
            21 March 2022 09: 40
            No, it’s that spinner chassis, it only got the rear ones, plus it blew a furrow when landing, watch the video
            1. +4
              21 March 2022 09: 49
              Yes, it looks like it, just in the video when the pilot gets out and lies down on the ground with a machine gun, you can see the rear right and a decent clearance above the ground, and here a later photo the Alligator sank, it seems like in soft ground
              1. +6
                21 March 2022 16: 28
                Yes, that this turntable, the pilot spoke, says it flies and everything looks at it. He speaks of her as his comrade-in-arms and is very worried about her.
                1. +3
                  21 March 2022 16: 41
                  They will stop firing, I hope the Mi-26 will take it.
                  1. 0
                    21 March 2022 21: 59
                    Will definitely pick up! He doesn't care who and where to drag
        2. 0
          22 March 2022 00: 50
          it is he
      3. 0
        21 March 2022 23: 41
        The main drawback of the new technology, when shot down, is that all the developments go to the enemy, including the means of protection. "Katyushas" had a charge, under the seat, to maintain secrecy.
    2. +19
      21 March 2022 05: 58
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The cylinder practically closed by the lower leg of the technique is an antenna ?! M - miniaturization. although I don’t believe about the Stinger from 5 km, not such a crumb.

      And you are right not to believe. The over-sleeve antenna (like that of the "Apache") dangled around the exhibitions, but was not brought to mind, mass-produced cars fly without it.
      Stinger sees with a 5-km supposedly bow antenna, an over-sleeve antenna was needed to detect air targets, and a bow ground antenna, EMNIP.
      1. +1
        21 March 2022 10: 28
        Yes, the layout hung around the exhibitions. They could not bring the normal over-hull radar to normal characteristics. The problem was the coaxial circuit itself.
        Right now, therefore, on the Ka-52 there is such an ersatz-over-hull radar ..
        It's just better than nothing.
        But it is impossible for such a Malipuska to provide the use of SD, since this is implemented on the AN-64. Amers have an overhead radar compared to ours - just an over-the-horizon radar
        1. +4
          21 March 2022 20: 46
          On the mi28NM there is an over-sleeve.
    3. +8
      21 March 2022 08: 55
      The cylinder practically closed by the lower leg of the technique is an antenna ?!

      it's not an antenna. There is an automatic swash plate
      1. -2
        21 March 2022 09: 14
        Quote: Ka-52
        it's not an antenna. There is an automatic swash plate

        Right? It looks like electronically.
        1. +5
          21 March 2022 12: 20
          radar like this
          1. +1
            21 March 2022 13: 17
            Quote from Johnson Smithson
            radar like this

            Yeah, only in the photo in the article it is not at all
    4. +5
      21 March 2022 11: 16
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The cylinder practically closed by the lower leg of the technique is an antenna ?! M - miniaturization. although I don’t believe about the Stinger from 5 km, not such a crumb.

      ========
      Hardly! In general, I doubt the availability on serial "Alligators" supra-sleeve Radar - Roman, actually likes to make "blunders"! But the plans were exactly like this:
      1. +2
        21 March 2022 11: 25
        Quote: Ka-52
        The cylinder practically closed by the lower leg of the technique is an antenna ?!
        it's not an antenna. There is an automatic swash plate

        So Ka-52 (Andrey) is right, this is a swashplate.
    5. +1
      22 March 2022 11: 48
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      although I don’t believe about the Stinger from 5 km, not such a crumb.

      I didn’t quite understand it’s your not so tiny. What does it refer to. If about the Stinger MANPADS, then it has a b / h weight of 3 kg. In a 122 mm high-explosive fragmentation projectile, 3,8 kg of explosive, in 76.2. mm OFS VV 750 grams.
      Stinger has 1.8 kg of explosives.
      So figure out which projectile corresponds to the rupture of the b / h Stinger
      1. -3
        22 March 2022 12: 37
        Quote: YOUR
        I didn’t quite understand it’s your not so tiny. What does it refer to.

        To the swashplate, which I mistakenly accepted, however, at the suggestion of the author, for an over-hull radar. "Radar" I counted the crumbs, okay?
        1. +2
          22 March 2022 13: 39
          It is now clear.
    6. -2
      22 May 2022 16: 09
      I recommend the author to get acquainted with Apache and Comanche, you can watch a video clip from the DCS World simulator where the electronic filling of the AH-64D helicopter is clearly visible
      and then compare with the electronic filling of Sagem Electronics in the Ka 52 helicopter:
      The Ka-52 lags behind the AH-64D in terms of electronics and there should be no doubt about this.

      And in terms of survivability, the Ka-52 undoubtedly surpasses the Apache.

      It is necessary to further develop electronics and electronic enterprises in Russia.

      and if you want to try flying on Apache with partner, you can try it for free for 2 weeks (From the DCS World website.)

      https://youtu.be/ld0v4iGcAco?t=184

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgBNp5p2MpM


      Now I'm waiting for cons laughing
  2. +15
    21 March 2022 04: 40
    The coaxial scheme gives a number of advantages in piloting, a great car!
    1. +14
      21 March 2022 10: 16
      + 20% to the lifting force because power is not wasted on the tail rotor .. Hence the higher rate of climb, 50 m / s was registered on the KA-30 .. Survivability is higher due to the lack of a tail rotor, it was most often damaged during shelling ..
      rs: Based on the famous video over Gostomel, there are some questions about the detection of targets on the ground, since they were detected only with visual contact, which clearly make it clear the negotiations of the pilots .. The issue of installing an AFAR of the Zhuk-M type is more than relevant, but apparently it's a matter of price. .
      1. -3
        21 March 2022 17: 39
        Based on the famous video above Gostomel, there are some questions about the detection of targets on the ground, since they were detected only with visual contact, which clearly makes it clear the negotiations of the pilots.

        Thermal imagers were supposed to detect people for another 1-2 km. But either the visibility of thermal imagers is lame, or they are not installed at all, since the crew only detects targets through eye contact.
        Avionics need to be reworked.
  3. +28
    21 March 2022 04: 41
    Good car. It would be interesting to read about the Mi-28, both about combat use and about comparing it with the Ka-52, precisely in the segment of the special operation. I remember there was a lot of debate about which of these helicopters is better.
    1. +11
      21 March 2022 05: 04
      I still think the KA-52 is better ... in terms of more chances to survive on the battlefield due to the features of the airframe.
      As for the Stingers... why not design an unmanned armored helicopter as a decoy escort for combat helicopters... equip it with electronic warfare equipment and a tracking system for MANPADS operators.
      Let him go to the battlefield and let him collect all the launches of the enemy's MANPADS. And the pilots will perform a direct combat mission.
      1. +7
        21 March 2022 05: 08
        Well, we can think and count as we like, which is why we want to read an expert opinion. hi And an unmanned helicopter is a good idea, but, apparently, they either think it's too expensive, or they just haven't developed it yet.
        1. +18
          21 March 2022 05: 10
          The best expert is war... she is never wrong in the real assessment of weapons.
      2. +7
        21 March 2022 06: 36
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        I think the KA-52 is better ... in terms of more chances to survive on the battlefield due to the features of the airframe.

        It's not the same for everybody ! The location of helicopter pilots "side by side" / "society" is considered by a number of military specialists to be a disadvantage! (They say that there is a significant probability of hitting the crew with a "one burst"!) It was because of this that at the well-known "Turkish competition" the Kamovites had to urgently "remake" the Ka-50-2 "Erdogan" with a 2-seater cabin from the Ka-52 to 2-seater with a tandem (!) arrangement of the crew! Subsequently, the Kamov Design Bureau took on an attack helicopter with the "original" tandem (!) Crew arrangement, but did not receive the support of the Moscow Region!
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        why not design an unmanned armored helicopter

        I thought about it myself! But not as a "dummy"; but as a "full-fledged" combat drone based on the Ka-52! I don’t know how it will turn out in a “serious” war with a high-tech enemy; but in counterguerrilla operations, against the DRG, evil smugglers, it should turn out well!
      3. 0
        21 March 2022 17: 44
        As for the Stingers ... why not design an unmanned armored helicopter as a decoy escort for combat helicopters ... equip it with electronic warfare equipment and a tracking system for MANPADS operators

        Thermal imagers are needed with a detection range of up to 5 km, a viewing angle of up to 360 degrees, with computerized target identification.
        The price should not matter - the helicopter is still more expensive than the thermal imager, in case of loss. And without long-range thermal imagers, the Ka-52 is highly vulnerable.
      4. -1
        22 March 2022 16: 13
        network-centricity implies that after detecting a target, only one launcher will burn, the one that will fire, the rest will hide
    2. +15
      21 March 2022 06: 03
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      It would be interesting to read about the Mi-28, both about combat use and about comparing it with the Ka-52,

      "Debriefing", of course, will be! But I also noticed that the other types of attack helicopters (except for the Ka-52), as it were, "went into the shadows" in the reports "from the front"! What caused this is not completely clear, despite the excellent characteristics of the Ka-52!
      1. +5
        21 March 2022 10: 20
        Most likely, the matter is in the perfect (compared to the rest) avionics and technical reliability, which raises the degree of readiness of the aircraft .. Apparently, Mil Design Bureau is in for hard times ..
      2. +5
        21 March 2022 11: 20
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        But I also noticed that the other types of attack helicopters (except for the Ka-52), as it were, "went into the shadows" in the reports "from the front"! What caused this is not entirely clear.

        ========
        I dare to suggest that it is on them ("Alligators") that the main burden of the work falls! At least for now.
      3. -3
        21 March 2022 22: 37
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        other types of attack helicopters (except for the Ka-52), as it were, "went into the shadows" in the reports "from the front"! What caused this is not entirely clear.
        Maybe because the Ka-52 is shot down, but the Mi-28 is not?
    3. +6
      21 March 2022 10: 09
      My floor, on this resource (although, I could be mistaken, it was a long time ago) there was a series of articles about the birth of these helicopters. The military were entirely for the Ka-50 - 52, but the Milevtsy also pushed the Mi-28 through the administrative resource (essentially a restyling of the Mi-24), so our next nonsense happened, both helicopters were put into service at once.
      Now information seems to have flashed that the Ministry of Defense refused to supply the Mi-28 hi
      1. +5
        21 March 2022 20: 39
        No, well, after all, the Mi-28 cannot be called a restyling - it is a full-fledged drummer, without the landing function, which is rarely used by the Mi-24. There, the layout is different, of course. Just the coaxial layout of Ka is already very attractive, which determines its advantage
        1. -1
          22 March 2022 09: 34
          Quote: whitebeard
          No, well, after all, you can’t call the Mi-28 restyling - it’s a full-fledged striker, without the landing function, which is rarely used by the Mi-24

          Only on the fuselage. Engines, transmission, avionics, navigation are basically the same. Therefore, restyling.
    4. +1
      21 March 2022 20: 36
      In general, I haven’t come across any materials or news about the use of the Mi-28, it seems that it’s not on the front lines at all, for some reason. Only the Ka-52 and Mi-24 are visible everywhere (not counting the assault version of the Mi-8, of course)
      1. 0
        22 March 2022 09: 35
        Quote: whitebeard
        In general, I haven’t seen any materials or news about the use of the Mi-28, it seems that it’s not on the front lines at all, for some reason

        There were, but only a few and in general raise certain doubts.
        1. 0
          22 March 2022 23: 36
          Welcome.
          There are and fly. See below. But personally, I am a fan of Kamov))

  4. +20
    21 March 2022 05: 01
    A good machine, but they are already doing better, the Ka-52K or the army version of the Ka-52M.
    Guys, let the number of takeoffs always be equal to the number of landings!
  5. +11
    21 March 2022 05: 21
    Even the minimal experience of Syria is already yielding results. And the military operations in Ukraine showed that the military helicopter is mostly satisfied with the helicopter. He performs the main tasks. The problem with the range of ammunition, the same Attack and Chrysanthemum should have been used by our helicopters a few years ago. But, the program of practical application and integration was not forced, the helicopter can relatively safely attack targets on the jump, otherwise they will be detected and they will try to destroy it. And, basically, the car is really a kind of workhorse of the country's Air Force. Over time, there will probably still be a new, more powerful radar I, with a greater target detection range, and new missiles, with a longer range of these targets, striking, but for now, you will have to fight with what you have.
    1. +1
      21 March 2022 10: 21
      Why are you not satisfied with Whirlwinds?
      1. 0
        21 March 2022 11: 33
        The Max702-rocket must be continuously illuminated with a laser! This is up to 20 seconds of hovering in place! It’s not difficult to shoot down a helicopter !!!!
        1. 0
          21 March 2022 13: 04
          It’s as if the same trouble with the rest, only the Whirlwind is supersonic, unlike .. We don’t (yet) fire missiles, forgot for helicopters
          1. 0
            21 March 2022 13: 59
            max702-Is it? And Hermes? After all, it is indicated that he uses the "fire and forget" principle! hi
            1. +2
              21 March 2022 17: 56
              Does he exist? Or is it only in samples?
        2. 0
          22 March 2022 11: 21
          But does the helicopter hang when the ATGM is launched? He continues to move, just the operator needs to keep the target at the same time, which is sometimes difficult.
          1. -1
            23 March 2022 22: 38
            Especially when the operator keeps the mark, and the pilot maneuvers .. There was no such problem on the KA-50 ..
  6. +8
    21 March 2022 05: 40
    a worthy successor to the work of the Soviet predatory amphibian ...
    1. +7
      21 March 2022 06: 14
      correction from a biologist - a crocodile is not an amphibian, but a reptile! Terrible fighting reptile! if you are talking about the Mi-24!
      1. +4
        21 March 2022 06: 17
        thanks for the amendment hi
        About him of course good
      2. 0
        22 March 2022 16: 18
        an alligator from the same family, I'm talking about the Ka-52
  7. +20
    21 March 2022 05: 48
    I remember the first time I watched the movie "Black Shark" on a VCR, I don't remember the year, probably either the end of the 80s or the beginning of the 90s. It was a shock! It was an unspeakable pride in our aviation, in our pilots and designers!
    1. +4
      21 March 2022 06: 22
      The movie is great! and the only film about Afghanistan that I can watch again,,,,
      1. +2
        21 March 2022 10: 54
        Sergei Borisovich, it seems that I will come to your city in early June (another date of the postponed conference). Drop your cell phone if you have a chance, I'll meet you there.
        1. +1
          22 March 2022 05: 44
          Yes! I’m definitely not going to quit the post office now after I found out for sure that OUR *products* work against the Ukronazis, which means that there is my tiny help in this!
    2. +1
      21 March 2022 08: 20
      There even Kvachkov lit up
      1. +3
        21 March 2022 08: 42
        First, he showed up there, and then, in another case, sorry, not finished! but who is Kvachkov, I found out after THIS case!
  8. +10
    21 March 2022 05: 54
    Well, the shooting from the Ministry of Defense of such work on Gostomel ... With a bunch of smeared targets and 18 hits - and again - sat down, and did not fall - somehow speaks for itself.
    1. +4
      21 March 2022 11: 11
      This Ka 52, which is in the photo for the article, was most likely shot down from Shilka, but not Stinger at all, but there were at least 2 cases of loss of cars along with the crew.
    2. 0
      23 March 2022 01: 39
      launches and not hits
  9. +9
    21 March 2022 05: 55
    Ka-52 flashes more often in the news than Mi-24 and Mi-28.
    1. 0
      21 March 2022 20: 42
      Mi-28 is not seen or heard at all. The 24s somehow glow at least ...
  10. +9
    21 March 2022 05: 56
    There are many nuances in the case with the Ka-52, the main of which is the inability to ensure normal combat work for the Ka-50 pilot (single-seat machine) at the level of the Mi-28,

    Old tales that were refuted back in the Chechen companies, where a pair of Ka-50s successfully worked, with the support of the Ka-28 (as a target designator).
    However, even the two-seater Ka-52 is on the battlefield today, in contrast to the promoted Mi-28.
    1. +2
      21 March 2022 06: 16
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      However, even the two-seater Ka-52 is on the battlefield today, in contrast to the promoted Mi-28.

      Doesn't sound like cartoons

      The published video shows the attack of the latest Mi-28NM helicopter with an over-hull radar, which allows you to detect camouflaged targets in difficult terrain and at a great distance.
    2. +2
      21 March 2022 11: 13
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Old tales that were refuted back in the Chechen companies, where a pair of Ka-50s successfully worked, with the support of Ka-28 (as a target designator).

      The main one is highlighted. The problem of the Ka-50 was precisely in the impossibility of the normal operation of combatant crews without a specialized control, reconnaissance and target designation vehicle. But this machine did not exist and does not exist - because it was developed on the basis of the V-60, which the Kamovites are still torturing. The Ka-29VPNTSU, which flew in a group with the Ka-50 in Chechnya, was a palliative - a flying stand with equipment.
      1. +2
        21 March 2022 13: 12
        These problems were solvable then and even more so now, but the real problem was the MIL design bureau, which catastrophically did not want to lose the title of court supplier of SV helicopters, especially in such a tasty niche as shock .. Here is the main reason for all the troubles of the KA family .. Earlier I wrote that this it is necessary to investigate and judge the perpetrators for sabotage, because in addition to the resources spent, the troops did not receive the necessary equipment on time, for which they paid with a lot of blood ..
        rs: During the tests of the KA-29, he killed the MI-24 in one gate (yes, yes, exactly the 24th), but he was lobbying in the USSR too ..
        1. +1
          21 March 2022 14: 16
          Quote: max702
          These problems were solved then and even more so now.

          The solution to the problem of the Ka-50 was the VPNCU based on the V-60, also known as the Ka-60.
          What do we have with the Ka-60? But nothing - 25 years of development ended with two experimental machines, one of which was crashed, and in 2010 the Ministry of Defense refused to finance the program in favor of the Ka-62. What about the Ka-62? And with the Ka-62 we have a sluggish Import substitution...
          1. +2
            21 March 2022 14: 31
            I have a suspicion why the KA-60 is so bad.. And these suspicions are intertwined with the reasons that I indicated in the comment above. and MI60..
        2. +1
          23 March 2022 10: 30
          I always knew this about the Ka-29 and Mi-24. The big "bosses" graduates of the General Staff Academy, when they were shown the Ka-29 and told about their capabilities in comparison with the Mi-24, were wildly perplexed.
          1. +1
            23 March 2022 10: 51
            There is an excellent article on this topic on the Corner of the Sky website .. KB MIL is waiting for the fate of KB MIG reception for absolutely the same reasons .. Family ties cannot be put above the interests of the state ...
      2. +4
        21 March 2022 14: 12
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The problem of the Ka-50 was precisely the impossibility of normal operation of combatant crews without a specialized control, reconnaissance and target designation vehicle.

        Even at the stage of comparative tests with the Mi-28 back in 1985, the GLITs, GosNIIAS and the Institute of Aviation and Space Medicine stated:
        In the most difficult modes of autonomous search and aiming, the single-seat Ka-50 showed performance no worse than the two-seat Mi-28.
    3. 0
      22 March 2022 01: 24
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      However, even the two-seater Ka-52 is on the battlefield today, in contrast to the promoted Mi-28.


      Mi-28 promoted ... yes ...
      Just look at this site how many PR materials about the Mi-28 and how much about the Ka-52.
      1. 0
        23 March 2022 10: 52
        So read today's article about MI-28 entirely with honey and molasses ... But reality puts everything in its place ..
        1. -2
          24 March 2022 12: 17
          Quote: max702
          So read today's article about MI-28 entirely with honey and molasses ... But reality puts everything in its place ..


          What article? This one, which immediately raises the question, is the MI-28N obsolete? And the author, after numerous delusions, comes to the conclusion that no?
          So he's wrong. Everyone knows that the Mi-28N is outdated, starting with the creators. Therefore, the Mi-28M is ready.
          And I advise the author to still understand the radar of helicopters, the names of missiles and missile systems, and the methods of their guidance. He writes nonsense simply enchanting.

          And I don’t see any honey and molasses comparable to the stream of pink snot that the “experts” come to while painting the Kamov machine even in this article. I didn’t even find a normal, competent review of its combat capabilities in the article about the Mi-28. But the author referred to the accident. But at the same time, naturally, I "forgot" about the problems with the mechanism for controlling the propellers of Kamov machines, leading to accidents since the 90s. And about the fact that, by a strange coincidence, ejection seats do not save pilots.
          And leave your highbrow statements about "reality". You don't know reality. Nobody brings it to you or to me.
  11. 0
    21 March 2022 06: 05
    The real combat use (Syria is practically not considered, there were episodic cases) Ka-52 shows that this is a really serious combat vehicle.

    A good car, but it still needs a driven strike drone so that it doesn’t go on the rampage itself if the danger is great.
    1. +1
      21 March 2022 14: 32
      Everyone needs a reconnaissance UAV, starting with the infantry squad ..
  12. +4
    21 March 2022 06: 27
    I’m embarrassed to ask for MI-28, something is not heard about him, did not suit combat conditions in any way?
    1. +3
      21 March 2022 06: 45
      Heard. Participates.
      1. +2
        21 March 2022 07: 30
        There is a feeling that after our Victory for K-52 there will be a queue of people who want to buy!
  13. +1
    21 March 2022 06: 32
    Russian weapons have always been advanced in the world.
  14. -8
    21 March 2022 06: 40
    Never mind, gunsmiths will soon learn how to shoot in one gulp from a seven-barreled 30mm cannon. The generals are changing, they are used to the existing ones.
    1. +3
      21 March 2022 08: 13
      funny .. in one gulp ... from a seven-barreled ??
  15. +9
    21 March 2022 06: 42
    I once read the opinion of one test pilot (I don’t remember his last name), he just tested both ka52 and ka50. He believes that it is necessary to return the ka50 but with new avionics, in his opinion, at the time of the development of the ka50, the electronics were imperfect and indeed one pilot coped with a lot of work, and with modern electronics one pilot can be completely dispensed with and he will not be overloaded. And use the ka52 as a command vehicle. This is the opinion of a specialist.
    1. +3
      21 March 2022 10: 24
      KB MIL looks at you with condemnation ...
    2. +4
      21 March 2022 14: 16
      Moreover, the pilots on the Su-25x somehow cope with such a load.
      1. +1
        21 March 2022 14: 27
        Su25 with all due respect is old. His main weapon is Nar. Because of the high speed. Il2 end of the 20th century.
        We need fire-n-forget missiles, we don't have much luck with them yet. Attack and whirlwind is not a cake.
        1. +1
          21 March 2022 16: 34
          And what about his old age?
          1. 0
            21 March 2022 16: 58
            There is no weapon for him. Too fast and too slow at the same time.
            Large attack aircraft find out helicopters or counterguerrillas. Fact.
            1. +1
              21 March 2022 18: 58
              I'm sorry, what??
              1. 0
                21 March 2022 21: 44
                *pull out
    3. -1
      22 March 2022 01: 26
      Is this the one that could not be found at the target range? Or other? :)
      1. 0
        24 March 2022 10: 13
        Are you talking about "Shark" now?
        So she proved herself in Chechnya, very much even nothing. Enough to listen to the pilots.
        Your sarcasm is incomprehensible.
        1. +1
          24 March 2022 12: 07
          I have the opportunity to communicate with eyewitnesses of the Ka-50 tests at the training ground and combat work in Chechnya. And that's it, that "nothing" the car showed both there and there. The problem was not in the technical perfection of the machine, but in the fact that the pilot did not ... see, busy piloting. Now, if he was given external target designation, then yes. And he himself could hardly find targets even at the training ground. After all, a person is not a multi-tasking system; he has one pair of eyes and one pair of hands.
          But what is surprising. In Chechnya, the Mi-50 flew in the same group with the Ka-28. And they worked harder and more successfully. BUT! Everyone who knows how to write wrote about the Ka-50 in Chechnya, but the Mi-28 did not exist. :)
          1. +1
            24 March 2022 15: 42
            I have not heard about 28 in Chechnya. I'll look, thanks!
          2. 0
            9 May 2022 07: 01
            We stood in Khankala, 500 meters from the airfield. Two ka 50s lit up. One flew in tandem with 24, the second with I don’t know which one, but also with a coaxial scheme. 2000-2001. I didn’t see the Mi 28, if it only took off from Mozdok. But this is unlikely.
  16. +3
    21 March 2022 06: 47
    "Vitebsk" can be produced in different versions ... To counter the "stingers" a laser subsystem was provided ... but if we recall the history of the development of "Vitebsk" and adoption into service, then the laser subsystem immediately "failed" ... (whether technical difficulties, or whether the MO seemed expensive, I don’t remember exactly!), And the “laser” was promised “later”! Whether "Vitebsk" is also produced in the "laser" version, I can't say; I have not been interested in the "fate" of this protective system for a long time ... (In my opinion, the laser subsystem was introduced, as a mandatory element, into the export version of "President-S" ...)
    1. +1
      21 March 2022 09: 28
      There is Vitebsk there. In some photos, near the landing gear, emitters
      1. +2
        21 March 2022 11: 06
        Quote: kytx
        Is there Vitebsk

        "Vitebsk" - that is! But is it complete? Are all kits complete?
        1. 0
          21 March 2022 11: 25
          In full. Sensors. Thermal traps. Reflectors. Emitters.
          The photo shows
          1. 0
            21 March 2022 11: 56
            Quote: kytx
            The photo shows

            Not quite... There is indeed an IR (possibly UV) interference station... but I'm "worried" about having a laser subsystem! For it was that they installed "flash lamps", but there were no "lasers"! But I will have to take a closer look at the equipment on helicopters, which I will do when the opportunity arises!
            1. 0
              21 March 2022 12: 03
              There she turns. Laser.
              1. 0
                21 March 2022 12: 29
                Quote: kytx
                There she turns. Laser.

                This is clearly SOEP L-370-5 ... "roughly speaking", "spotlight-flash"!
                1. 0
                  21 March 2022 12: 39
                  Well, maybe. But the flash is easier to do all-perspective.
  17. -1
    21 March 2022 07: 30
    With illumination from the UAV, it is necessary to synthesize. Can a tank be identified among other pieces of iron or only a stand-alone one?
  18. KLV
    +2
    21 March 2022 07: 59
    I asked a group of moderators why the service for detecting and sending error messages in texts (Ctrl + C - Ctrl + Enter) allows readers to send no more than 3 such messages per day? Didn't get an answer, unfortunately.

    Roman Skomorokhov, with all due respect to him, does not differ much, for example, in the correct placement of commas in his texts. In this article, I found clearly more than three different errors.

    And what to do? How to teach people to think and write correctly in Russian?
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. 0
    21 March 2022 08: 05
    Without a doubt, the car is very successful and has no analogues.
  21. +1
    21 March 2022 08: 16
    ..We are flying, and you are crawling, eccentrics you are eccentrics ..
    https://vk.com/video-72299917_456244542
    Piloting of some of the machines shown in the video was often seen close - in the sky at an altitude of about ~ 100m. The sensations are unforgettable, especially when the device starts to perform a combat turn right above you ..
  22. -7
    21 March 2022 08: 18
    For an attack helicopter that is under fire from small arms and large-caliber weapons, the "shoulder-to-shoulder" crew layout is not optimal, because. the area of ​​the frontal projection increases sharply (let us put aside aerodynamics), which leads to an increase in the probability of damage (in the illustration, a comparison of the Ka-52 and Cobra)
    1. +6
      21 March 2022 10: 22
      Well ... well, really incorrect picture
      it must be compared with Apache, with the Tiger with the Mongoose ... and the Cobra is a completely different class of helicopters.
      Although if you compare it in profile, then the Ka-52 is shorter than the AN-64
    2. KLV
      0
      21 March 2022 13: 25
      The "Cobra" has one engine, and the Ka-52 has two of them, installed "shoulder to shoulder", which increases the frontal projection area.
    3. +3
      21 March 2022 15: 41
      The weight class is very similar. laughing
    4. 0
      23 March 2022 10: 35
      These helicopters are not comparable.
  23. +9
    21 March 2022 08: 19
    The helicopter was shot down by ZUshka. Destruction of the gearbox and one engine. It is not clear where Roman saw Stinger's hit. Damage from MANPADS can be seen on the Su25s, no less armored and compared. Yes, and the pilot himself spoke about the projectile
    1. +1
      21 March 2022 09: 50
      "Vitebsk" does not take the place of anti-aircraft fire from barreled weapons.
    2. +1
      21 March 2022 12: 49
      Moreover, they announced that there were many launches of Stingers .....
  24. +2
    21 March 2022 08: 42
    I don’t understand one thing, why there is no jammer in the ultraviolet range, because Stinger works in it and therefore all traps are useless.
    1. +4
      21 March 2022 10: 15
      The stinger has a multi-range homing head, and also - at the final stage of guidance, the principle of targeting by the silhouette of the target is used, so all IR and UV traps become useless
      1. -1
        21 March 2022 10: 25
        It depends on the version of Stinger, and he has dozens of them. It is clear that not the most advanced ones were delivered to Ukraine.
        1. +1
          21 March 2022 12: 50
          It is quite possible .... oh, and if Vitebsk "blinds" the GOS laser, it will blind this one too.
      2. 0
        21 March 2022 20: 52
        But in fact, in 2017, AIM-9X went to IR traps instead of the Syrian Su-22, I had to use AIM-120. UV traps do not exist, they are not needed.
  25. +4
    21 March 2022 09: 02
    In all the videos about the operation in Ukraine, I see only KA-52 and MI-24-35, but where are the MI-28s that they are not involved in the "case"?
    1. +3
      21 March 2022 09: 51
      In all the videos about the operation in Ukraine, I see only KA-52 and MI-24-35, but where are the MI-28s that they are not involved in the "case"?
      A couple of times there were shots from the Mi-28
  26. 0
    21 March 2022 09: 20
    Roman is a good article, in development and addition, thanks to the Squadron Commander, Lieutenant Colonel Dmitry Rakushin, for his work in the acceptance and commissioning of this wonderful KA-52
  27. +2
    21 March 2022 09: 20
    Interesting article! I have always loved the graceful contours of this car, it is immediately clear that it is a predator!
  28. +4
    21 March 2022 09: 59
    A gun. 2A42. That is, the same thing that stands on light armored vehicles: BMP-2, BTR-82A, BTR-82AT. Ammunition of 500 30-mm shells, which can be borrowed from anyone if necessary: ​​tankers, motorized riflemen, artillerymen, in short, all ground troops who have 30-mm shells for 2A42 and 2A72 in their warehouses. That is, almost everyone.
    / / /
    The gun is movable in two planes, and if necessary, two more can be added to external nodes in container installations. Then in general life below becomes sad. The choice of ammunition is controlled by the operator, selective feeding is a useful thing.

    If you look at the extent to which the gun is mobile, then it looks "not very".
    And a good question: is such a gun needed, or is it still preferable for a helicopter to have a guided turret with "anti-personnel" weapons?
    Here's how it looks:

    IMHO, this is not a MANPADS shot down. Yes, and in the photo there are no traces of striking elements.
    By the way, the problem of landing "side by side" is visible: poor visibility "in the direction of the neighbor."
    And target detection with the eyes, IMHO?

    And this is what Apache's work looks like (for a correct comparison - without an overhead radar):


    Brief conclusion: if you fly at a low altitude, then sooner or later something will fly in and knock you down. Even if you don’t install a radar station (but you need to), then good optics allow you to kill the enemy even when the helicopter is nearby, but you can’t hear it. This is especially true for night optics.

    Well, "for a snack": the Mi28 fly in the same place as the Ka52, but the level of losses seems to be different, isn't it?
    1. +5
      21 March 2022 10: 30
      The gun is needed and there are shots of its work, but regarding the location, there is evidence that, thanks to the installation in the center of mass, the accuracy of hitting targets is 4.2 times higher than that of the MI-28 with a similar gun located in the bow .. That is, the gun, that is, the aiming angles are excellent only you won't get anywhere from here.
      1. 0
        21 March 2022 12: 52
        With this arrangement and mobility, a 35-40mm cannon asks for it.
        1. 0
          21 March 2022 12: 58
          We don’t have such calibers, the ancient 37mm with an old gun is not very suitable because the projectile’s power is similar to the modern 30mm. recoil and low number of ammo .. So 57mm, in principle, is enough for all purposes ..
          1. KLV
            -1
            21 March 2022 13: 27
            ... projectile power ...
            1. 0
              21 March 2022 13: 32
              Quote: KLV
              ... projectile power ...

              Learn materiel doppelgänger ..
              Ammunition requirements.

              1. Combat and operational requirements:
              power characterizes the effectiveness of the projectile at the target (fragmentation - by the number of useful fragments, armor-piercing - by the thickness of the pierced armor, lighting - by the intensity of light, etc.);
              The power of ammunition
              an indicator of the effectiveness of its action on the target. For example, the power of HE shells is determined by the area of ​​the destruction zone; armor-piercing - the thickness of penetrated armor at a given angle of meeting; fragmentation - the area of ​​the reduced area of ​​fragmentation damage, determined by the number, mass and speed of expansion of the fragments; for all shells - the probability of hitting the target.
          2. 0
            21 March 2022 13: 38
            Well, how .... NATO infantry fighting vehicles are switching to more powerful guns. Bookings are on the rise. The confrontation of our "A42 is a standard for them. The gun is stationary, the helicopter is heavy, the accuracy of the gun is high, the rate of fire is low. It is quite possible to create one gun for both infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers and helicopters ...
            1. 0
              21 March 2022 13: 52
              Quote: Zaurbek
              The gun is stationary

              Movable on hydraulic drives The gun is movable in two planes, has selective power (capable of using different ammunition at the operator's choice) and a variable rate of fire. Creating a promising gun is a very long process, like sawing a 40mm project in telescopic ammunition, but how it is and what is there is categorically unknown, therefore, in the next 15-20 years, the basis will be a 30mm gun ..
              1. 0
                21 March 2022 14: 00
                There were projects and more mundane guns. .... with conventional shells. 37mm - the best option Anti-aircraft gun - a powerful projectile and powerful HE and BOPS.
      2. -1
        21 March 2022 13: 42
        If you carefully watch the video, then the cannon shells hit each other at 100 meters (watch from 14 seconds).
        Seems to me that "The gun mounts of most helicopters are mounted under the nose and provide a larger sector of fire than the non-removable gun mount NPPU-80 of the Ka-52 helicopter located on the starboard side in the center of the fuselage. This gives the Mi-28 and AN-64 certain advantages, but they come at a price. The cannon located in the “beard” under the fuselage far from the center of mass makes the helicopter inert, the recoil when firing sideways prevents the pilot from driving the car along the intended trajectory and deviates it from the line of sight. Yes, and aiming sideways is not so easy. Because of this, the crews prefer to fire straight ahead, aiming with the entire body of the helicopter, and the Mi-24P with a fixed GSh2-30 gun turned out to be better than the Mi-24V with a movable YakB-12,7 machine gun. Placing the gun near the center of mass on the Ka-52 turns the disadvantages of such a solution into advantages, increasing the maneuverability and speed of the vehicle, and the accuracy of shooting is 4 times higher,
        Source: http://www.modernarmy.ru/article/267/udarniy-vertolet-ka-52-alligator © Portal "Modern Army"
        "- to put it mildly, IMHO, about "4 times" is not true because the SLA of a weapon with limited mobility does not have time and cannot manage to work out the movements of the carrier. The shells fly "towards the enemy."
    2. +3
      21 March 2022 11: 24
      According to what is
      Pros:
      1. The design of the helicopter, its power and layout
      2. The car is extremely tenacious, saves the lives of the crew
      3. MANPADS protection systems really work
      Cons:
      1. Weak ECO and radar
      2. Small range of guided weapons.

      Moreover, the minuses are solved, without worsening the pluses. ECO is updated; The radar station can be equipped with 3-4 AFAR sheets in a circle, instead of an over-bush one. As for guided missile weapons - you need to do it.
      According to the cannon and the location of the crew, this feature can be used in different ways. Against armored vehicles, fortifications from a long range will be better, if in the style of Mi-24, as in the video, then a nose turret with helmet-mounted target designation and a tandem arrangement is preferable.
      Having solved the cons, the tactics of application will also change. While they are used as in Afghanistan, to put it mildly, it is somewhat outdated.
      1. +1
        21 March 2022 13: 56
        hi
        It turns out that "it needs to be done a little" recourse

        ECO is updated; The radar station can be equipped with 3-4 AFAR sheets in a circle, instead of an over-bush one.
        We will do AFAR in this version for a long time, if only the optics were completed! The pilots in the video are literally visually 150 meters from themselves IMHO, then armored personnel carriers, then KAMAZ trucks were found. And if there were a couple of Shilok?

        According to the cannon and the location of the crew, this feature can be used in different ways.
        my IMHO, judging by the video, in real life, "limited gun mobility" turns into immobility and low efficiency.
        And a cannon, IMHO, as a weapon that loses even MANPADS in range - this is for "bare infantry", which has neither MANPADS nor Zu-23.
        Already demonstrative experiments with MANPADS are given, I don’t want to drag them from YouTube.

        So it is necessary to put a cannon against "naked infantry" as on Apache (on Cobra they generally stopped at 20 mm) with a normal FCS and helmet-mounted target designation, "saw - killed."
        And if you can’t wait to drag a fixed gun onto a helicopter, there are hanging containers for such cases.
    3. 0
      23 March 2022 02: 06
      not so, we do not know anything about the application, not about the losses. Just what was on the video. We didn’t go to Gostomel Mi 28, so there’s nothing to talk about.
    4. 0
      24 March 2022 10: 50
      Well, "for a snack": the Mi28 fly in the same place as the Ka52, but the level of losses seems to be different, isn't it? *
      Well, as if mi28 did not light up in Gostomel.
      Video where mi28 works in the same conditions as ka52 no, so I can’t agree with you.
    5. 0
      28 March 2022 13: 35
      At 1:10, the moving cannon fires like a fan. And it was here that the gun fired at the MANPADS first.
  29. +1
    21 March 2022 10: 04
    the inability to ensure normal combat work for the Ka-50 pilot (single-seat machine) at the level of the Mi-28

    The Ka-50 was supposed to work in tandem with the Ka-137 drone (and not just one). If anyone does not know, then he was conceived by Mikheev as a means of reconnaissance and target designation for the Ka-50. Several of these drones were supposed to reconnoiter the battlefield, identifying targets, selecting the most important ones and transmitting them to the onboard helicopter complex. Therefore, the pilot of the Ka-50 already knew in advance what to do, and would not be guided by the situation in the conditions of battle. But since the Ka-50 mass did not enter service, then the Ka-137 turned out to be no longer needed in its original form and it was retrained for purely peaceful purposes, where it was also not useful.
  30. +2
    21 March 2022 11: 55
    If you carefully study the cases of unplanned landing of three Ka-52s, it becomes clear that the most effective way to destroy helicopters worked: MANPADS. Unfortunately, with all the advantages of the Ka-52, the Stinger-type MANPADS will be very effective against helicopters.

    Moreover, the Stinger is more effective against helicopters than against aircraft, since the helicopter operates at low altitudes and at lower speeds, representing an advantageous target.

    However, let's look at the photo.


    This helicopter was shot down not by MANPADS, but by MZA. And then they didn’t shoot down, but damaged the engine and the main gearbox. IMHO, because of the gearbox, I didn’t get back home, but sat down 10 km away. from Gostomel.

    [media = https: //vk.com/video-75679763_456270323]
    1. 0
      21 March 2022 12: 54
      If the Ka52 was not burned by the Bendera people, then it can be repaired ..... he sat down himself and quite gently.
  31. -1
    21 March 2022 13: 58
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    other types of attack helicopters (except for the Ka-52), as it were, "went into the shadows" in the reports "from the front"! What caused this is not completely clear, despite the excellent characteristics of the Ka-52!
    Maybe because the Ka-52 is shot down, but the Mi-28 is not?
    1. +1
      23 March 2022 02: 10
      or maybe because Ka is used many times more? Mi2 also didn’t shoot down a single one
    2. The comment was deleted.
  32. 0
    21 March 2022 14: 25
    Two good cars Ka-52 and Mi-28nm, and even their father is the 24th, somewhere the uncle flies the 35th. I agree with everything, but I think there is too much variety, you have to decide. Unification is a great thing, and it's cheaper, without loss of quality. We earn money, but do not print, like the West. Once against the entire Western world they did not pull, the rest of the swamp did not help us in any way, there is no need to step on the rake again.
    1. +2
      21 March 2022 15: 19
      There should be one attack helicopter and one combat transport ..... with the same theater.
  33. 0
    21 March 2022 15: 17
    I also noticed that on the Mi24-35-28 there are devices on the exhaust that reduce the IR trace from the theater, but on the Ka52 they are not.
    1. 0
      21 March 2022 17: 25
      They stand and how Apache serves exhaust under the propeller
    2. 0
      21 March 2022 18: 48
      On the latter there is something that leads the exhaust sideways and upwards.
      1. 0
        22 March 2022 12: 08
        But this is not equal to full-fledged devices?
        1. 0
          24 March 2022 20: 11
          Well, how to say ... The "Chinese" of the latter, for example, like this:

          On the Ka-52, most likely, it is impossible to do this directly, but the approach is similar.
          1. 0
            25 March 2022 09: 39
            Question to the studio: why not also solve the issue with the Mi28? Why "hang" the device on the exhaust?
  34. 0
    21 March 2022 17: 10
    Thanks for the material. Cool turntable
  35. 0
    21 March 2022 17: 22
    Quote: serg.shishkov2015
    correction from a biologist - a crocodile is not an amphibian, but a reptile! Terrible fighting reptile! if you are talking about the Mi-24!

    Yes, and he’s a reptile at a stretch ... I still hope that the archosaurs will be taken out into a separate hoard (class)
  36. +1
    21 March 2022 19: 11
    Author! You have a slight inaccuracy: "Cannon. 2A42. That is, the same thing that is on light armored vehicles: BMP-2, BTR-82A, BTR-82AT." - 2A42 is not installed on the BTR-82. There 2A72.
    1. 0
      26 March 2022 00: 03
      Author! You have a slight inaccuracy: "Cannon. 2A42. That is, the same thing that is on light armored vehicles: BMP-2, BTR-82A, BTR-82AT." - 2A42 is not installed on the BTR-82. There 2A72.

      I think the author wanted to say that their BCs are the same, that of 2a42, that of 2a72. (What about a helicopter, what about an infantry fighting vehicle, what about an armored personnel carrier.)
  37. +1
    21 March 2022 20: 01
    Judging by the news on the box and on the Internet, fire support is mainly for the Ka-52. Just yesterday, a small part of the news about the Mi-24 passed.
    Is it possible that rearmament has already taken place in the units?
    Afghanistan and Chechnya - there was support only on the Mi-24. Apart from attack aircraft.
    And where is the Mi-28? Are they participating in a special operation interesting?
    1. +2
      21 March 2022 21: 13
      About the Mi-28 - also interesting. And the Ka-52 is clearly more interesting than the 24th - both in terms of maneuverability and armor, because the 24th is still not a pure drummer (although it is mainly used in our country), but an assault landing, i.e. heavier and engines nearby, more vulnerable. So it is logical that the Ka-52s perform the main strike function, the 24s in the presence of the 52s should be in the wings
      1. 0
        25 March 2022 09: 41
        I have the impression that Mi24 always insure their young Mi28 and Ka52 .... with a lot of electronics.
      2. 0
        29 March 2022 18: 05
        A week has passed and voile!
        Today on the TV in the morning they are playing stories about the Mi-28. And on the VO they posted "The Russian military showed the work of the Mi-28N" Night Hunter "helicopters on armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine."
        It looks like thoughts materialize.
        Just like Leibniz.
  38. +5
    21 March 2022 21: 26
    The article is stuffed with nonsense, there used to be Damantsev, now Skomorokhov ...

    The first, located in the bow, serves to search for and attack targets, has a large aperture.
    Skomorokhov, what is aperture? And why did you decide that this is a radar?
    The second antenna is over-the-hub, with a smaller aperture, provides all-round visibility for general airspace control and protection from enemy missiles.
    And where is the radar? Just a shame...
    1. +1
      22 March 2022 01: 46
      Quote: smaug78
      The article is stuffed with nonsense, there used to be Damantsev, now Skomorokhov ...


      Agree. It seems that someone is paying the authors for generating enthusiastic nonsense about the Ka-52.
      Where did this nonsense about the second radar come from? And they added a picture too. Like "well, they still see"! What should we see there? Ass tech? Does she act as a second radar station?
      Once in 2014, the Ka-52 flew with fake "Crossbow" which (dummy!) included a clasp over the screws. And that's it! But no, you need not just leave a note about the Kamov car in every hole, but also write about it from three boxes ...

      There are many nuances in the case with the Ka-52, the main of which is the inability to ensure normal combat work for the Ka-50 pilot (single-seat machine) at the level of the Mi-28


      No. The main "nuance" of the "Ka-50" case was the inability of the Kamov Design Bureau to realize the mountain of promises and fantastic projects with which they filled up the military at first. The inability of the pilot to find targets, even at the training ground, came to light much later, when a weapons complex was mounted on the vehicles. And before that, there were problems with the backlog of the project at all stages of the competition. And even a technological dead end, which forced the Kamov Design Bureau through its lobbyists to push through the project of a target designator helicopter for their car. Which, quite naturally, turned out to be a waste of money.

      in the bowels of the Kamov Design Bureau, the general designer of OKYu S. V. Mikheev decided to start work on the creation of a reconnaissance and control helicopter based on the Ka-50. This helicopter was supposed to be two-seater and act together with the Ka-50 group as a flying coordination center.


      WHAT????????
      Author, are you out of your mind?
      A reconnaissance and control helicopter revealed from the "subsoil of the Kamov Design Bureau" based on the Ka-50? Are you out of your mind there?
      Here is the helicopter. Ka-60. Completed and not needed by anyone.

      He died along with the Ka-50 project.
      The two-seat car was born not from the "bowels of the Kamov Design Bureau", but from the kicks and cracks of the military, who, in an ultimatum form, demanded that an armament operator be placed in the car. Since the ideology of a single-seat percussion machine turned out to be a failure in principle. Even the pilots of the Kamov Design Bureau could not shoot normally at targets at the training ground.
      1. 0
        25 March 2022 09: 55
        The reconnaissance shock Kiowas were used quite successfully. Since then, the "brains" of the Apaches have grown, radars have appeared above the propeller, communication with the UAVs and the UAVs themselves have appeared in a large assortment and quantity, and kamikaze drones on the Apaches themselves .... and the need for the Kiowas has disappeared. T.K. The Russian Federation paused in the development of helicopters .... we go straight to the latest version
        1. 0
          27 March 2022 00: 07
          Quote: Zaurbek
          The reconnaissance shock Kiowas were used quite successfully. Since then, the "brains" of the Apaches have grown, radars have appeared above the propeller, communication with the UAVs and the UAVs themselves have appeared in a large assortment and quantity, and kamikaze drones on the Apaches themselves .... and the need for the Kiowas has disappeared. T.K. The Russian Federation paused in the development of helicopters .... we go straight to the latest version


          So it's one thing to combine workable squad cars. The other is to compensate defects shock machine due to reconnaissance. Apache and Mi-28, in principle, are full-fledged combat vehicles themselves. Able to perform combat missions independently. Reconnaissance helicopters only expand their capabilities. And for the Ka-50, this helicopter had to compensate for the shortcomings, without it the car could not perform a combat mission.
          At one time, the Ka-52 was planned as a command vehicle of the Mi-28N link. After all, he has a radar, he sees further and better. It's just like Apache Iowa.
          1. 0
            27 March 2022 23: 33
            The composition of the equipment for the NM and 52M should be the same and the weapon too. In addition to some kind of flights in the mountains and basing on ships, I don’t see any difference and advantages
            1. 0
              April 2 2022 02: 37
              The Ka-52 radar is actually an aircraft radar located in the nose. The Mi-28M has an over-bush. It is impossible to place it in the nose - there is a gun there. And the swivel gun was put there for a reason, but according to the experience of using shock versions of the Mi-24 in Afghanistan. So it won't work the same.
              Well, weapons ... This is a problem. The Kamovites have their own cooperation of developers, they are in no hurry to work with the cooperations of the Milevites. And the Milevsky cooperation has enough work and, as I understand it, the Kamov Design Bureau does not apply for their developments. MO also takes a strange position. Instead of ordering the Kamov Design Bureau to switch to the Mi-28 weapon system, stupid photos and videos are being made where the Ka-52 flies with Whirlwinds or even stands at an exhibition with "Product 305".
        2. 0
          24 May 2022 19: 07
          Apache flying Americans miss recon kiowas. This is a direct speech of such an Apache pilot from a gaming forum
    2. 0
      25 March 2022 09: 50
      some Ka52s have some kind of device above the propellers. But there are no newer versions.
  39. +1
    22 March 2022 00: 53
    I wonder where the author saw an overhead radar there?

    Further, regarding the downed helicopter - if this is a helicopter from Gostomel (and just there on the first day one of them landed - the most intact), then it was hit from a ZU-23-2 and not by any stinger. There is a video with the pilot and a video of the landing itself.
  40. +2
    22 March 2022 07: 49
    In addition, the L-370V52 can carry out active protection in the infrared and radio ranges, disrupting missile guidance.

    The laser destroys the matrix of IR GOS missiles. And the fired IR traps are ineffective, since the latest versions of the Stinger MANPADS have target selection.
  41. +2
    22 March 2022 11: 36
    They slapped the engine from MANPADS and slapped it, obviously, from close range.

    What is the difference between a missile hit from a long distance and a missile hit from a short distance?
  42. 0
    22 March 2022 12: 27
    Here it is obvious that the helicopter got to the fullest. This fact is difficult to deny. They slapped the engine from MANPADS and slapped it, obviously, from close range. But what can be seen in the photo?

    As soon as the "author" finished compiling the text from other sources, by the way, it would be nice to indicate them))) the flight of fancy began ...
    Where do you see a MANPADS hit there? And how would it differ if it was from a long distance?))) OBVIOUSLY, someone needs to be deleted from the list of at least somehow versed, not to mention the status of an expert)))
    1. 0
      23 March 2022 02: 17
      he connected two stories about one episode. Crocodile left the rocket
  43. -1
    22 March 2022 22: 21
    And if it's not a secret how many of these Crocodiles are in the Air Force or the Aerospace Forces. Some kind of advertising campaign goes on all resources about a wonderful miracle. Such a feeling of each creature is paired with such PR.
    1. -1
      23 March 2022 02: 18
      where did you see the crocodile? By feeling?
  44. 0
    25 March 2022 18: 01
    look at the root, the more such cars the better, and this is hello from the 80s, beautiful Russia boo boo boo, and from afar the crunch of rolls, and what we argue about, but pull the owl on the globe
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. 0
    26 March 2022 18: 28
    Ka-50 is prettier))))
  47. 0
    28 March 2022 01: 00
    I would like to learn more about the Stinger - why can't Vitebsk suppress it normally?
  48. -1
    April 7 2022 21: 40
    Good article (with the exception of the vyser about the KA-50).
    What can I say, the more experience of combat use of the KA-52, the more understanding that geniuses work in the Kamov Design Bureau, and either stupid people or traitors settled in our Defense Ministry. On the video of the combat use of the KA-52, we most often see the style of work a la IL-2, on previously reconnoitered targets. Or escort of convoys, where MI-52, MI-24 work together with the 8nd. That is, the machine performs its main function of reconnaissance, target designation and command vehicle (originally laid down by the Kamovtsy).
    There are no operations with free hunting, where the advanced equipment of the 52nd gives (suggests) an advantage over the capabilities of the KA-50 to search for targets, is not observed. Accordingly, it is absolutely clear that with a large number of combat missions performed, a more protected and more maneuverable KA-50 would have coped much more efficiently and safely. And the KA-52 would act just in the originally planned mission of the command reconnaissance vehicle, target designation for the KA-50 link.
    Moreover, if you equip the KA-52 with a couple of anti-aircraft guns with ready-made striking elements on the suspension, (like these https://topwar.ru/151448-zenitnyj-raketno-pushechnyj-kompleks-oerlikon-skyranger-shvejcarija-germanija.html) , then it would be an excellent means of covering both its own link from air defense systems, and covering columns from enemy drones and ATGM attacks.
    At the same time, a video from operations in the outskirts showed that the experts who said that highly qualified pilots were needed for the Ka-50 (52) turned out to be right. The capabilities of the machine are not used even by half.
    So, in my opinion, it is necessary to revive the KA-50, strengthen the capabilities of reconnaissance, target designation of the KA-52, and, based on the experience of combat use, prepare a suitable range of weapons for vehicles, and competent, highly qualified crews. It is possible to separate these vehicles into separate parts according to the type of the Guard.
  49. -1
    25 May 2022 11: 41
    subjectively - the crew is nearby, worse than the operator in front. 1. review by the commander 2. aerobatics, especially on ultra-small ones, this is not SU24 3. crew survivability, if it got into the cockpit, where everything is nearby. 4. the operator in front and below it is more convenient to control weapons
    I remember initially Ka52 = naval apparatus
    1. 0
      25 May 2022 19: 04
      Initially, when designing the combat training Ka-50, the Kamovites proceeded from the tandem placement of the crew. Later, Mikheev, studying reports on the combat use of "crocodiles" in Afghanistan, noted that in 14 cases the death of the machine was caused by the operator's lack of information about the injury or death of the pilot. Sitting in the front cockpit, the operator, although he had rudimentary helicopter controls, simply did not have time to take over control. And everything was decided by seconds.
      By that time, the in-line arrangement had already been used on shipborne helicopters. The same Mi-8 used as an assault also showed better crew interaction than in the Mi-24.
      And initially, the Ka-52 was supposed to combine the functions of a reconnaissance, target designator and command post. Those. Ka-52 as a commander, and Ka-50 as a strike unit
      1. -1
        25 May 2022 21: 36
        I won’t argue that for some time I flew in front of the Mi24, I can argue that the helicopter is so contradictory in aerodynamics and in general in the controls of the apparatus that it’s nonsense not to understand the commander’s “switching off” from control
  50. 0
    9 June 2022 19: 52
    The author himself wrote that the Stingers are not terrible, because there is Vitebsk. And then he said the opposite. But in fact, Stingers, Needles, Arrows, Mistrals, Thunders and Peruns are really very effectively removed by the complex. Those hits are exclusively cases of shelling at a helicopter by these MANPADS or from very close range, so that the rocket does not have time to be deceived and fly to the left, but hits the forehead. Or, what happened more often - a massive launch on a helicopter (that is, more than two missiles at a time) of several missiles at the same time. This is shown on several videos, since the dills of these MANPADS already have an abundance, and when aircraft appear, they rush to shoot. In this case, Vitebsk does not have time to take all the missiles away from the helicopter, and some of them still break through.
    That's the whole conclusion: Vitebsk really saves, there is nothing like this in other countries yet. But it is not a panacea and the work of this complex can be bypassed.

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