Weapons of the Afghan dushmans. Hand, easel and uniform machine guns

63

Due to the specific conditions of warfare in mountainous areas, the use of machine guns in the Afghan war had a number of features. Small groups of rebels preferred light and single machine guns, which were fired from bipods. Rifle-caliber easel machine guns were used to a limited extent, and mainly on flat terrain.

Weapons of the Afghan dushmans. Hand, easel and uniform machine guns

Machine guns were sometimes mounted on vehicles that were used as motorized carts.



Light machine guns


In the initial period of the Afghan war, the most common light machine guns in the armed opposition groups were the Czechoslovak ZB-30 chambered for 7,92 × 57 mm and the British Bren chambered for .303 British.


Among weaponsseized from the rebels, machine guns ZB-30 and Bren

Both ZВ-30 and Bren machine guns were developed before the Second World War on the basis of the Czechoslovak ZВ-26, they have the same principle of operation, but differ in a number of parts and ammunition used.

The ZB-30 light machine gun was created taking into account the experience of operating the ZB-26 machine gun and was distinguished by the design of the eccentric that set the shutter in motion and the firing pin actuation system. The weapon had a gas cock, which made it possible to regulate the amount and intensity of the flow of powder gases into the cylinder. Due to hardening in order to increase the reliability of a number of parts, the weapon became somewhat heavier, the weight without cartridges was 9,1 kg.


7,92 mm ZB-30 light machine gun without magazine

Food was supplied from a 20-round magazine. Rate of fire: 500–550 rds/min. The initial speed of the bullet is 760 m / s.


Mujahideen in sunglasses is armed with a ZB-30 machine gun

In the second half of the 1930s, Nazi Germany sold weapons to Afghanistan. Together with 7,92-mm rifles, machine guns were supplied, produced at the enterprises of the annexed Czech Republic. In addition, clones of Czechoslovak 7,92-mm light machine guns were produced in China during World War II. It is possible that these weapons could also get into Afghanistan.

The British 7,7-mm Bren machine gun was in service with the Pakistani army, and Pakistan handed over some of the outdated machine guns to the Afghan rebels by the early 1980s.


For firing from the Brenn, the same cartridges were used as for the Lee-Enfield rifles popular with spooks, which ensured the unification of ammunition.


7,7 mm Bren light machine gun

Without a magazine, the Bren Mk II machine gun weighed 8,68 kg. The length of the weapon is 1 mm. Barrel length - 156 mm. The initial speed of the bullet is 635 m / s. Rate of fire: 730–500 rds/min Combat rate of fire - up to 540 rds / min.

The main external difference between the English Bren and the Czech-made machine gun was a curved magazine for 30 rounds of .303 British.

In terms of their characteristics and operational reliability, both light machine guns differed little. But due to the more capacious store, the British model had a slightly higher practical rate of fire.

In the post-war period, the Afghan army, along with other Soviet weapons, received DP-27 machine guns, which are easily distinguished from other light machine guns by the characteristic "poppet" shape of the magazine for 47 rounds.


Although the Degtyarev light machine guns chambered for 7,62x54mm R were not as widespread among the dushmans as the ZB-30 and Bren, Soviet soldiers regularly captured them along with other types of light small arms.

The detachments of the Afghan Mujahideen had Soviet RPD light machine guns chambered for 7,62 × 39 mm, but its Chinese clones were much more numerous.


Chinese light machine gun Type 56

Licensed production of Type 56 light machine guns began in the late 1950s. Chinese samples had characteristics similar to the prototype and minimal differences in details.

The RPD light machine gun has gas automatics, similar to the DPM, developed at the end of the war. However, instead of a store, it is equipped with tape power. The tape, docked from two pieces of 50 rounds, is in a round box attached to the weapon from below. Unlike the PDM, the RPD machine gun has a non-replaceable barrel, which made it possible to make the machine gun simpler and reduce weight.

The mass of the RPD with a box of 100 rounds is 9 kg. Length - 1 mm. Barrel length - 037 mm. The initial speed of the bullet is 520 m / s. Effective firing range - up to 735 m. Rate of fire: 800-650 rds / min. Combat rate of fire - up to 700 rds / min.


In photographs from the time of the Afghan war, it is not possible to distinguish with which machine guns, Soviet or Chinese production, the militants are posing. But there are many such photos on the Internet.


Also common among the Mujahideen were the Soviet 7,62-mm RPK light machine gun and the Chinese Type 74 conceptually similar to it. Both samples fired with 7,62 × 39 mm cartridges.


The Type 74 machine gun was designed on the basis of the Type 56 machine gun, which in turn copies the AK-47.


Chinese light machine gun Type 74

The Chinese Type 74 differs from the Soviet RPK in a number of details: there is a carrying handle, a buttstock of a different shape, machine gun power from magazines for 20, 30 and 100 rounds. There is also a gas pressure regulator with four positions, which are used depending on the degree of contamination of the automation with powder gases.

Without cartridges, a Chinese light machine gun weighs a little more than 6 kg. Length - 1 107 mm. Barrel length - 528 mm. The initial speed of the bullet is 735 m / s. Rate of fire: 700–750 rds/min.

In the late 1980s, spooks had at their disposal single copies of the 5,45-mm RPK-74 / RPKS-74 light machine guns.


5,45-mm light machine gun RPK-74

The weight of the RPK-74 has not changed compared to the RPK (without cartridges - 5 kg), but the small-caliber machine gun has become 20 mm longer (total length 1 mm).

Reducing the recoil momentum and a shorter time of flight of the bullet to the target made it possible to improve the accuracy of shooting by about 1,5 times compared to the 7,62-mm RPK. The mass of wearable ammunition with the same stock of 5,45-mm cartridges is 1,5 times less than with the cartridge mod. 1943.

On RPK-74 there was a refusal from the disk store. The machine gun is fed from a sector-shaped box magazine with a plastic case and a staggered two-row arrangement of 45 rounds. Standard AK-74 magazines can also be used.

The use of a low-impulse 5,45 × 39 mm cartridge with a 3,45 g bullet that left a 590 mm barrel at an initial speed of 960 m/s made it possible to increase the range of a direct shot, which generally had a positive effect on the effectiveness of shooting in open areas. However, when conducting combat operations in the "green" light high-speed bullets showed a low penetrating ability and easily changed the direction of flight when they encountered even minor obstacles.

Machine guns


The government Afghan army was armed with machine guns SG-43 and SGM under the Soviet rifle cartridge 7,62 × 54 mm R. Machine guns on wheeled and tripod machines were delivered to Afghanistan, and some of them ended up with dushmans.


The Goryunov machine gun on a universal wheeled machine, which allows anti-aircraft fire without a belt, weighed almost 37 kg, on a tripod machine - 27,8 kg. Box weight for 250 rounds: 9,5–10,25 kg. Machine gun body length - 1 140 mm. The length of the rifled part of the barrel is 670 mm. The initial speed of a bullet weighing 9,2 g is 855 m / s. Rate of fire: 650–700 rds/min. Combat rate of fire - up to 300 rds / min.


The barrel of an air-cooled machine gun. Conducting intensive firing bursts is possible up to 500 shots, after which it is necessary to replace or cool the barrel.

It was possible to install an anti-aircraft sight, which added another 600 g of weight. The anti-aircraft sight is designed for firing at air targets flying at a speed of no more than 600 km / h at a distance of up to 1 m.


Most of the SG-43 and SGM machine guns, as well as their Chinese Type 53 and Type 57 copies used by the rebels, were equipped with anti-aircraft sights, which indicates the universal purpose of easel machine guns.

In addition to the SG-43/SGM and Type 53/57, our troops occasionally captured British 7,7 mm Vickers machine guns and Soviet 7,62 mm Maxim machine guns of the 1910/1930 model.


Everything is clear with the Vickers, this machine gun was in service in Pakistan and, as part of military assistance to the rebels, was transferred along with Bren light machine guns and Lee Enfield rifles. How the easel "Maxims" ended up with the dushmans is not entirely clear. It is possible that in the late 1950s the USSR supplied to Afghanistan not only the SG-43 and SGM, but also Maxim machine guns.

Single machine guns


As mentioned above, the rebels used machine guns under a rifle cartridge to a limited extent. This was due to the fact that in the mountainous terrain everything had to be carried on oneself, and a heavy machine, in fact, was a dead weight, and the high firepower of heavy machine guns in conditions of fleeting clashes when firing at manpower was in most cases not needed. Low maneuverability, coupled with the need to prepare a heavy machine gun for firing and equip a firing position for it, did not add to the popularity of this weapon among the rebels, who acted on the principle of "hit and run."

The wide use of machine guns of rifle caliber as a specialized means of air defense was hindered by the insufficient firing range and the relatively low damaging effect of bullets, the weight of which did not exceed 13 g.

In the conditions of Afghanistan, along with manual ones, the so-called "single" machine guns were in demand. Which could fire from bipods and from the machine. At the same time, they had belt feed, which provided them with a sufficiently high rate of fire and air cooling of the barrel, giving an acceptable weight.

In small numbers, the rebel detachments had Soviet RP-46 machine guns. This single machine gun chambered for 7,62 × 54 mm R, adopted by the Soviet army, was created immediately after the war on the basis of the DPM light machine gun, but, unlike it, had a belt feed. The RP-46 machine gun was supposed to become a support weapon for infantry companies, similar to the German MG-34/42.


Company 7,62-mm machine gun RP-46

The RP-46 machine gun used non-loose metal belts for 200–250 rounds, carried in special boxes borrowed from the SG-43 machine gun. The machine gun did not have any special mounts for installing a box of cartridges, which to some extent made it difficult to operate it in combat conditions.

The massive barrel allowed for intense fire, up to shooting the entire tape in one burst. Rate of fire - 600-650 rds / min. Practical rate of fire - up to 200 rds / min. Machine gun weight without tape - 13,7 kg. Length - 1 272 mm. Barrel length - 605 mm. The initial speed of the bullet is 825 m / s.

It is known that the PRC licensed production of the RP-46 under the designation Type 58, and it is likely that such Chinese machine guns were supplied to the rebels.

Along with other Chinese weapons, starting in 1983, dushmans gained access to Type 67 machine guns chambered for the same Soviet rifle cartridge 7,62 × 54 mm R.


Type 67 machine gun on bipod

Unlike many other types of small arms produced in Chinese factories during the Cold War, the Type 67 machine gun did not have Soviet relatives. In fact, it was a conglomerate of technical solutions copied from foreign models. The tape feed mechanism was borrowed from the Maxim machine gun, the shutter with the percussion mechanism was from the Czech ZB-26, the trigger mechanism was from the PDM, the gas regulator was taken from the RPD, the method of attaching the barrel in the receiver was from the SG-43.

The body of the machine gun weighs about 11 kg. Length - 1 650 mm. Barrel length - 605 mm. Rate of fire - 650-700 rds / min. The machine allows anti-aircraft fire, for which there is a special sight in the accessories.

Oddly enough, the Chinese designers from the "hodgepodge" of components and parts managed to pile a fully functional, albeit not shining with particularly high data, weapons. In China, they believe that the Type 67 machine gun, in terms of its characteristics, came close to the Soviet PC. However, if this were the case in reality, the PLA would not have adopted the PKM clone, which was produced under the designation Type 80.


The most numerous and popular single machine guns used in the Afghan war were the Soviet PK and PKM. These machine guns were regularly in service with the Soviet units of the "limited contingent", the army and the security forces of the DRA.


PKM machine gun on bipod

The Kalashnikov machine gun uses a well-developed gas-operated automatic system, the barrel is locked by a rotary bolt. The gas outlet unit has a three-position gas regulator. The barrel is air-cooled, the barrel is quick-change, for ease of replacement it has a carrying handle. Cartridges are fed from non-loose metal tape.


In Afghanistan, the modernized PKM, which was put into service in 1969, mainly fought. The non-modernized PK is heavier and outwardly distinguished by a ribbed barrel, a shoulder pad on the butt and a different flash hider.


PKMS on the machine 6T5

The option, which had a tripod machine in the factory, is designated as PKMS. Although the Kalashnikov machine gun can be used from a machine gun, in the mountains it is much more convenient to use a bipod. The worst stability when firing from bipods was fully compensated by the lower weight.

The weight of the PKM on the bipod is 7,5 kg. Another 3,9 kg weighs a box with a tape for 100 rifle cartridges. The mass of a machine gun with a loaded belt for 200 rounds is 15,5 kg. Machine gun length - 1 173 mm. Barrel length - 658 mm. The initial speed of the bullet is 825 m / s. Rate of fire - 650-700 rds / min. Practical rate of fire - 200-250 rds / min. When firing from a tripod, an experienced machine gunner is able to confidently hit targets at a distance of up to 800 meters. The machine gun on the bipod is effective up to 650 m.


Since 1982, the Chinese company Norinco began producing the Type 80 machine gun, which was actually a copy of the PKM adapted to local production conditions. Foreign sources say that the Chinese Type 80 machine gun is about 0,5 kg lighter than the PKM due to the reduction in structural rigidity. However, after understanding the operating experience in the harsh conditions of Afghanistan, the modified model became heavier again.


Since the second half of the 80s, Soviet-made PK / PKM machine guns and Chinese Type 1980s have been quite numerous in the armed opposition groups. With an acceptable weight, they deservedly had a reputation for powerful, accurate and reliable weapons.


Single machine guns were often used for firing not only at ground targets, but also at air targets. However, without reliable fixation or support on a hard surface, machine gun fire on helicopters and attack aircraft was ineffective.

For the most part, the rebels used machine guns of 12,7–14,5 mm caliber to combat air targets, and a separate publication will be devoted to the air defense systems of the Afghan Mujahideen.


However, there are photographs showing that the Mujahideen had 12,7-mm American Browning M2 machine guns and 14,5-mm Vladimirov machine guns, on machines that can only fire at ground targets.


Such machine guns were used to fire at roadblocks and transport columns, and could also successfully deal with light armored vehicles. However, due to their narrow specialization, large-caliber machine guns on non-universal machines were not popular, and their use was episodic.

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63 comments
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  1. +3
    17 March 2022 04: 27
    Informative article. In Afghanistan, one could find weapons from all over the world and from different eras. Both modern and century-old and even a century and a half ago, and all of it was in working order and fired at Soviet soldiers. There are a lot of photos of the Afghan war where you can clearly see what kind of weapon the Afghans owned. There are such rarities that gun collectors or museums would like to have in their collections.
    1. +8
      17 March 2022 07: 05
      I join. Traditionally high-quality article by Sergey, with gorgeous illustrations!!! Although I personally am most inspired by the place of the epigraph - "to be continued." I love long-term work!
      For rarities, I suggest that a respected comrade look at the link "publications" in the early articles of the cycle, you will not regret it!
      All the good days!
      1. +11
        17 March 2022 07: 57
        Good morning Vlad! hi
        I completely agree with your comment, and there is a small addition to the article just for some "rarities". smile

        The German MG-34 got stuck between the ZB-30 and DP-27. Complete international.
        1. +10
          17 March 2022 13: 48
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Good morning Vlad! hi
          I completely agree with your comment, and there is a small addition to the article just for some "rarities". smile

          The German MG-34 got stuck between the ZB-30 and DP-27. Complete international.

          Kostya, hello!
          I suspected that the dushmans had German machine guns, but I would rather think about the MG1A3 produced in Pakistan chambered for 7,62 × 51 mm NATO.

          MG-34s for Afghanistan were still rare, and most likely got into this region after the Second World War.
          1. +10
            17 March 2022 16: 49
            It is a pity that only the period of stay of our troops there is covered, here, I posted several photos of a later period, perhaps then the Pakistani MGs got there.
            Belgian FN MAG

            M249 P.I.P. -- American copy of Belgian FN Minimi .

            Vernissage)))
      2. +11
        17 March 2022 08: 23
        The second "rarity" spread separately. It is related to Sergey's previous article, but the submachine gun is really rare. This is the French Hotchkiss Universal (Hotchkiss Universal), developed in 1947-49.
        In the photo, a fighter of Tsarandoy with this payment order.

        Below is a photo from the catalog.



        The car folds up completely, but it was never accepted into service in France. Venezuela became the only foreign customer. But in Afghanistan, he somehow still ended up.
        Characteristics.
        Caliber: 9×19 (9mm Parabellum)
        Weapon length: 777/540 mm (440 mm - fully folded)
        Barrel length: 275 mm
        Weight unloaded: 3,4 kg.
        Rate of Shooting: 650 fps / min
        Magazine capacity: Cartridge 32.

        I saw him live only in the arsenal of Mosfilm, and then the men didn’t know what it was and what to call him, they didn’t know how he got to the studio, and just a week before that I bought a Polish brochure on this Hotchkiss in Druzhba, so it turned out to help the guys, otherwise they had no right to insert it into films. Then there was some of our TV movie about a fictional country in Lat. America, where he figured in the hands of terrorists, he was not seen anywhere else.
        1. +10
          17 March 2022 13: 55
          Quote: Sea Cat
          This is the French Hotchkiss Universal (Hotchkiss Universal), developed in 1947-49.

          This PP participated in the competition announced by the French army. Its competitor was MAT-49 (pictured), which also had a magazine.

          The Hotchkiss Type Universal SMG was produced very little, it turned out to be quite complex and, as a result, relatively expensive.
          1. +6
            17 March 2022 16: 25
            Good afternoon, Sergey! smile
            Yes, I know about the competition and, in my opinion, the point here is not only complexity and price. According to my own feelings - the handle of Hotchkiss, with tight coverage, just bites into the fingers, but which one to shoot from? Yes, and with reliability, I think he could have problems, he probably did not like the sand.
        2. +6
          17 March 2022 14: 05
          This rarity, apparently, came to the Afghans from the French industrialists of the military-industrial complex, who were looking for product sales.
          France has had more than one century of diplomatic relations with the Afghans - they closed the consulate there only in 1943-44 with the transfer of diplomatic service to Turkey. And Venezuela came to the region only in the 1990s and so far only to the Iranians. And immediately after the war, relations between the Afghans and the French were restored:

          At the end of World War II, Franco-Afghan relations returned to normal, and both missions were elevated to the rank of embassies. Afghanistan continues to attract prestigious travelers, including the Swiss Nicolas Bouvier, received by the French ambassador, "a tiny old man, trembling with enthusiasm and activity, crowned with a white forelock and who could have come out of a Gobineau story or a Proust chapter." He shouted merrily because he was deaf as a pot. He was an exemplary diplomat."


          https://af.ambafrance.org/Histoire-de-l-ambassade-de-France,796
          1. +4
            17 March 2022 19: 28
            This rarity, apparently, came to the Afghans from the French industrialists of the military-industrial complex, who were looking for product sales.

            I don’t think, after the sale of two or three thousand of these P / P to Venezuela, it was no longer produced and there were no products for the sale of this model in the company’s warehouses.
            So the option from Venezuela through Iran is more likely. The question is in quantity, because no one would carry them to Afghanistan one at a time.
      3. +7
        17 March 2022 16: 21
        "I love long-playing works" namesake, greetings. You are not the only one who loves this kind of work. But I need to clarify: QUALITY work. It doesn’t suit me, even in theory, that Apukhtin or the Samsonovs were with a continuation
  2. +2
    17 March 2022 04: 34
    Once again, I am convinced that in hostilities that are conducted in extreme natural and climatic conditions, domestic weapons, or their foreign copies, are in demand.
    1. +12
      17 March 2022 07: 37
      Quote: Tucan
      Once again, I am convinced that in hostilities that are conducted in extreme natural and climatic conditions, domestic weapons, or their foreign copies, are in demand.

      The argument is patriotic and fills the heart of any Russian (Soviet) person. But how true is he?
      Dushmans did not have their own production of ammunition and weapons. In fact, only the oldest rarities had renewable ammunition in a makeshift way. For the weapons of the WWI period, such "frills" were already practically impossible.
      So, basically, the Mujahideen and their (sponsors) in the supply of small arms were guided by the stocks of the Afghan army and trophies.
      Therefore, it is not surprising that the main supplier was Pakistan (logistics), China (ammunition compatibility with Soviet weapons) and the Afghan army itself. However, Arki and M-14, various versions of the Germans, Belgians and British occasionally surfaced there. In general, following "let us give back to God what is not good for us." Exceptions are sniper rifles and heavy machine guns. Although both, in the opinion of the Afghans, were qualitatively inferior to the domestic SVD and DShKM. At the first, they only tried to replace the sights with Swiss or German ones.
      Another attitude was towards critical weapons. For example, the Stingers. In this case, the "partners" did not hesitate to fill up the spirits.
      Well, the last. In the last article, comrades had a question about Fn Falah among dushmans. Got a response from knowledgeable people. As trophies of our army came across American and Belgian Fn Falls, mainly with the possibility of automatic fire.
      I was refused photographs, although I know that one definitely has one. If I manage to agree on a collage “only rifles without a person”, I will definitely post it!
      By the way, once again I was convinced that people who have gone through Afghan do not want to talk about this topic. request
      1. +2
        17 March 2022 07: 45
        FN FAL is still not a machine gun. And the question of ammunition inevitably arose. The 7,62x51 NATO cartridge was not particularly common in Afghanistan. As far as I know, the main rifle and machine gun cartridges for the dushmans were British .303 and Russian 7,62x54.
        1. +5
          17 March 2022 18: 07
          Dear Toukan, I write directly in the comment that the guys had a question in the last article, and not this one. hi
      2. +1
        18 March 2022 21: 34
        If the dushmans had Italian anti-personnel mines, then why couldn't they have FN FAL!
        Thank you for your attention to my question! hi
  3. +7
    17 March 2022 09: 12
    Sergey, thanks for an interesting and informative article!
    You intrigued me, there was a desire to look for details.

    How the easel "Maxims" ended up with the dushmans is not entirely clear.
    Author: Linnik Sergey


    From the British, along with Bren machine guns and Lee-Enfield rifles.
    The Maxim machine gun was officially adopted by the British Army in 1887.
    The first combat use was recorded during the Anglo-Boer Wars, against the African Ndebele tribe.
    Presumably in 1893
    Source: History of Firearms
    Author: Major Hugh Pollard

    The photo shows soldiers of the 1st Battalion of the Royal Rifle Corps.
    Chitral Expedition (Pakistan), 1895.


    And Pakistan, in turn, handed over the Maxims to the Afghan rebels.
    As well as other types of weapons.
    Is such an option possible?
    1. +7
      17 March 2022 09: 59
      Hi Michael smile
      The first combat use was recorded during the Anglo-Boer Wars, against the African Ndebele tribe.

      No, even before the Boer War, Cecil Rhodes's "volunteers" used machine guns against the Ndebels, they beat them almost immediately from the two-horse carriages. As their leader Lobengula later said, "the warriors around me fell like cut grass" (c), unfortunately I don’t remember the exact year. And only after this massacre in England they decided to adopt the Maxim.
      1. +9
        17 March 2022 12: 22
        Quote: Sea Cat
        unfortunately I don't remember the exact year.

        hi
        Battle of Shangani October 25, 1892
        On that day, 5 Maxim machine guns “mowed down” about 1500 natives.
        Foreign media write that the colonialists had 3 more rapid-fire guns of a different system *, and 2 guns.
        * Gutling rapid fire, I think.

        At that time they were experimental samples.
        We are trying to figure out how the Maxims got into Afghanistan.
        Right?
      2. +4
        17 March 2022 12: 24
        1893. Battles of Shangani and Bembesi.
        "...Now near six thousand warriors; We stopped them on the run.
        The bravest of the brave could never match the Maxim gun."
      3. +8
        17 March 2022 12: 26
        Quote: Sea Cat
        machine guns were used by the "volunteers" of Cecil Rhodes against the Ndebels

        Experimental samples have been used before.
        The prototype "Maxim" was received by Henry Morton Stanley for the expedition to rescue Emin Pasha (1886-1889).
        At that time, as a "means of scaring off the attackers" - so the participant in the events, Sir William MacKinnon, believed.

        Frederick Lugard brought the same prototype to Central Africa, where he allegedly played an important role in the formation of the British Protectorate of Uganda.

        Hermann von Wismann, thanks to the Maxims, became the governor of German East Africa.
        1. +6
          17 March 2022 16: 33
          Hermann von Wismann, thanks to the Maxims, became the governor of German East Africa.

          Yes, I read about it, but I did not find exact information about the practical use of a machine gun.
    2. +8
      17 March 2022 13: 59
      Quote: Mister X
      Sergey, thanks for an interesting and informative article!
      You intrigued me, there was a desire to look for details.

      Hello my friend! Why are you addressing me with "you"?
      In general, the publication dealt specifically with the Soviet machine guns "Maxim" of the 1910/1930 model of the year. Everything is clear with the British Vickers machine guns.
      1. +8
        17 March 2022 15: 53
        Quote: Bongo
        Hello my friend!

        hi
        Quote: Bongo
        Why are you addressing me with "you"?

        With us, Moldovan aristocrats, this is in the order of things wink
      2. +5
        17 March 2022 15: 56
        Quote: Bongo
        the publication dealt specifically with the Soviet machine guns "Maxim"

        As you can see, they could well have entered Afghanistan through various channels, and not only from Russia/USSR.
        What do you say?
  4. +7
    17 March 2022 09: 41


    Let me disagree.
    As an example, I will give the Battle of Dien Bien Phu (Vietnam).
    Small and thin Vietnamese even managed to carry guns by hand through the mountains and the jungle.
    And at a distance of 500 km.
    The guns were dismantled and transported on bicycles over a great distance.
    As a result, the French suffered a shameful defeat.

    I believe that the Afghans were also able to carry heavy weapons along the mountain paths.
    What do you think?

    1. +9
      17 March 2022 14: 05
      Quote: Mister X
      Let me disagree.

      Have you been climbing mountains?
      Of course, the Afghans carried ZGU and DShK on themselves (mostly Chinese), but you must admit, comparing the energy and firing range of 12,7-14,5-mm machine guns with a rifle caliber is at least strange. Water-cooled machine guns with a machine gun weigh a lot, and they didn’t make much sense in Afghanistan. No.
      1. +4
        17 March 2022 16: 17
        Quote: Bongo
        Have you been climbing mountains?

        In Soviet times, in the Caucasus

        Quote: Bongo
        compare the energy and firing range of 12,7-14,5 mm

        I compared not energy, but mass and dimensions.

        Quote: Bongo
        Water-cooled machine guns with a machine weigh a lot, but they didn’t make much sense in Afghanistan

        As if flintlock muzzle-loading guns were of great use.
        However, the Afghans did not neglect anything, and even museum exhibits, like these, went into the "case":
        1. +5
          18 March 2022 00: 05
          Quote: Mister X
          As if flintlock muzzle-loading guns were of great use.
          However, the Afghans did not neglect anything, and even museum exhibits went into the "case" ...

          Hello hello
          Perhaps I don’t understand something, but it seems to me that a karamultuk is an individual weapon, and a heavy machine gun is a collective one.
          And I'm interested in such a question, when will we see your next article?
          1. +3
            18 March 2022 08: 12
            Quote: zyablik.olga
            Hello hello

            Olenka, hello!

            Quote: zyablik.olga
            karamultuk is an individual weapon, and a heavy machine gun is a collective one.

            Both are weapons.
            Even a flamethrower made from a bicycle pump.
            But what the rebels use is not always suitable for a regular army.
            Is not it?

            Quote: zyablik.olga
            When will we see your next article?

            I don't even know what to answer...
            The hospitalization was canceled, I am being treated at home.
            As soon as possible wink
            So far I’m only writing sarcastic comments: so that my fingers don’t get used to the keyboard
  5. +9
    17 March 2022 15: 32
    As always, like the article and illustrations!
    Some photos of Bren:




    IMHO, for "moving on their feet" Bren "is so good", for the purpose of "released a couple of horns and is free." And PKM is when there are a lot of cartridges, and you don’t need to carry them on your hump ...
    1. +4
      17 March 2022 16: 15
      Quote: Wildcat
      As always, like the article and illustrations!
      Some photos of Bren:




      IMHO, for "moving on their feet" Bren "is so good", for the purpose of "released a couple of horns and is free." And PKM is when there are a lot of cartridges, and you don’t need to carry them on your hump ...

      hi credit photos, do not consider impudence for the question - did you personally hold it in your hands?
      1. +5
        17 March 2022 16: 35
        hi
        Of course not.
        1. +4
          17 March 2022 16: 40
          Quote: Wildcat
          hi
          Of course not.

          Clearly, it was envious, as from a museum exhibition.
    2. +6
      17 March 2022 16: 36
      Good day, kitty. smile
      The photo, by the way, is not in the museum's storeroom, it somehow looks like, and "Shosha" is nearby, but this is a machine, in general, rare.
      1. +6
        17 March 2022 18: 10
        hi
        Good day, Sea Cat!
        What kind of stock is this...

        but there are interesting units there ...


        here is the new Tula Armory - it is much more interesting in it! But the weapons in it are now chained ....


        only a Maxim machine gun without chains ....
        1. +7
          17 March 2022 18: 24
          Well, the Italian Breda Mod. 30 is generally a rarity. smile

          1. +6
            17 March 2022 19: 58
            My God!... A 9 kg machine gun is like two buckets of water. Try it, get it! Yes, even in the mountains.
            1. +5
              17 March 2022 20: 03
              The Italian has more - 10,6 kg, what to do, life is more expensive. wink
              1. +2
                17 March 2022 20: 19
                And here's what I'm thinking. That Afghanistan is a strategic territory that borders almost all Central Asian countries. That's why it's important! She was important to everyone. But precisely because, precisely because of its such location, it has become a cauldron in which warriors are boiled from birth. And nothing else is cooked. Except heroin. Boiler country. A place where all kinds, conceivable and unthinkable, of small arms are tested. This is the fate of people, right?
                1. +4
                  17 March 2022 20: 46
                  That's why it's important! She was important to everyone.

                  And everyone from there was asked to go home. bully
                  1. +3
                    17 March 2022 22: 56
                    Yes, one could laugh, but ... Kostya, remember, a very nice person came to our story - Eugene, aka CHEREDA (if I wrote the nickname correctly). So, I sent him a question in a personal, they say, why is it not clear. Kostya, he is from Kiev! He says that there were shells arriving, and I saw these arrivals in a telegram, I am very upset, poor Zhenya ... We, civilized, are poorly adapted to such circumstances. Therefore, having endured three days of horror, I ran away to Russia in time in 92. But many turned out to be as if paralyzed, and then, a month later, already in Sochi, for some reason I went to the border, and there were thousands of people with completely lost faces. As if the life of the people is gone, and they are zombies. And among them I saw one of my neighbors. I didn't even dare to approach him. Because there was nothing she could do to help. We were both lost. And if in the context of Afghanistan, then Afghans live like this from generation to generation. Continuously. And they don't know any other way of life. Peacetime seems to weigh them down, and the return of the war seems to evoke the emotion "Well, finally!" Finally back to normal life. And only now I began to understand that the habitual way of life, whatever it may be, is the most valuable thing for a person. That is why our Yevgeny slows down with the flight from the doomed city, he is fed by the hope that everything will work out. Tragic, right?
                    1. +2
                      18 March 2022 16: 02
                      I also have a good friend in Kyiv, and he is also in no hurry to leave the city, he hopes that he will carry it through, I also hope.
                      1. +2
                        18 March 2022 16: 22
                        And our VikNik disappointed me. It turns out that he grazes in a telegram, evaluates the statements of experts on certain actions and deployments of our weapons, and proudly admits that he sends information to his military ... I don’t know, maybe I would have acted the same way if they had come to us, but not I would report this vindictively to the same VikNik. It seemed to me that we were one family, I felt sorry for him. And he considers our historical community alien to him
                      2. +2
                        18 March 2022 16: 32
                        Yes, I know about his moods, we occasionally correspond. To be honest, I was a little disappointed, but, as you rightly said, "it was we who came to them, and not they to us," but, I think Putin had no other choice, everything was friendly and from the very beginning they led everything to war.
                      3. +2
                        18 March 2022 16: 39
                        I believe that the reasons for the sudden outbreak of war go far beyond "if not us, then they." But this is not the time or place to discuss them when there is a war going on. This is a matter of the distant future. As for Afghanistan, their women are incubators. They will give birth in any conditions according to customs, they have adapted. And boys from infancy are accustomed to weapons, because Afghan warriors quickly master new models that they can reach. And the situation is such that in the event of a serious global conflict of a non-nuclear type, Afghanistan will be taken over by that country from the "developed" countries that will be able to completely cover it with vacuum bombs. Mountains are mountains.
                      4. +2
                        18 March 2022 16: 46
                        in the event of a serious global conflict of a non-nuclear type

                        It's possible, but it's better not to have it.
                        And yes, we will discuss our affairs later, if there is a desire,
                      5. +1
                        18 March 2022 17: 30
                        Kostya, how is our Phil - Sergey Vladimirovich? She said not to blather too much. So no! No right of correspondence. Suicide Squad Warrior wassat )))
                      6. +2
                        18 March 2022 17: 36
                        No correspondence.


                        What now??!!!!!
                      7. +1
                        18 March 2022 17: 38
                        Didn't you know? Well you talked after the action!
                      8. +3
                        18 March 2022 17: 43
                        The question is when?
                      9. +1
                        18 March 2022 17: 44
                        March 12 was excommunicated.
                      10. +2
                        18 March 2022 17: 45
                        So yesterday seemed to be present on the branch?
                      11. +1
                        18 March 2022 17: 46
                        Yes, that cannot be! Where? I have it clearly stated. Now I'll check again.
                      12. +3
                        18 March 2022 17: 48
                        Exactly, banned, I just checked, I confused it with "soap". laughing
                      13. +2
                        18 March 2022 17: 50
                        This is how our people get there. In a fever of alcohol load ... But for some reason it seemed to me that it was an act of self-murder. Now I'll find and point out the topic.
                      14. +3
                        18 March 2022 18: 37
                        Yes, he already wrote to me at the Post Office, he is tired, he says that because of the war there is a lot of aggression, he banned himself. wassat
                  2. +1
                    18 March 2022 21: 38
                    They just left in different ways!
                    1. +2
                      19 March 2022 00: 32
                      When they show you the door, it doesn’t matter how you leave, running or waddling.
            2. +2
              18 March 2022 04: 58
              A 9 kg machine gun is like two buckets of water.
              - Do you have some small buckets, from the children's world chtol? laughing
              1. 0
                18 March 2022 21: 43
                Are you used to carrying the normative 50 kilograms in the mountains?
                The Soviet limit for carrying weights on a flat and horizontal surface for a man over 18 is 50 kg.
                For a woman - 20 kg.
                1. +1
                  18 March 2022 22: 02
                  No such habit request
  6. 0
    13 May 2022 13: 45
    In Peshawar, they make and did any copy of the machine gun.

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