Military Review

Tank "visors" in Ukraine

139
Tank "visors" in Ukraine

At the end of December 2021, an article was published on Military Review "Umbrella for the tank and" roof-breakers ", where a certain assessment was given to the "revolutionary innovation" of protection tank from modern, "fashionable" means of destroying tanks from ammunition that affects the upper sphere of armored vehicles.

As they looked into the water ....

And we have no joy in our such “correct prediction”. Anxiety and a heavy sigh ....

It was quite difficult for me then (and still) to write them because of the consequences of concussions, already annoyed at this to the point of gritting my teeth. About 7-10 unfinished articles accumulated on the laptop, but ... purely intuitively, then I put them aside and designed the material about these "visors".

Why?

1. Because a thunderstorm was then in the air, everyone felt it.
2. Because roofers have become a real threat to tanks, which are the main striking force of the ground forces.
3. Because it was necessary to neutralize this threat in the first place.
4. Because it was possible to create such protection in the shortest possible time and without any serious financial investments.
It was the fourth point that became decisive, why I put aside all the materials and formalized not only my vision, but also the vision of my colleagues to create the maximum possible protection for tanks from being hit in the weakly protected upper hemisphere: MTO and the upper part of the tower.

But the troops entered Ukraine with these, damn it .... visor options.
During the special operation in Ukraine, numerous photos and videos appeared showing the massive use of this type of protection on tanks of the RF Armed Forces.

It was immediately noticeable that there was no single design standard, as such.
The article analyzed in detail two options, initial and final. Both constructions and somewhat different "umbrellas" flash in the media.


Subsequent options will be further in the material.

Yes, as it was said in the article, the main shield of the tank is the comprehensive protection of the entire unit, this is absolutely true. And we all see this in the events in Ukraine, when the types and types of troops work in a single mode of combined arms combat.

But the "last line of defense" should be. And it must be effective.

An attentive reader should have noticed that we focused our attention not only on the "fashionable" then theme of "Bayraktar", but on ALL (!!!) roof-breakers, where there is a "Javellin", and SPBE MLRS, and the WTO in the form of "Excalibur ", "Fireball", "Merlin", "Locaas".

Bayraktars and other strike drones require the use of vulnerable infrastructure and are quite expensive. But with "Java" a fighter can sit quietly on the edge and ... And a mortar with average training will quickly figure out how to deal with the same "Merlin" ...

It seems the West has already expressed a desire to get rid of some of its old weapons?
It is not joyful from the sale of predictions ...

And photos of the affected tanks, protected by "umbrellas", appeared on the screens ...



Rare car. One of the T-72BA variants.

I will not hide the fact that a lot of calls and messages came in PM and on the phone, where everyone echoed the same thing:
- Lech, you were right, these visors are complete bullshit!!!

But ... with all my categorical rejection of this type of protection, I would not say so. And this is not what my colleagues and I wrote about in the article. Yes, and there is no clear clarity that hit the "roof", and not something else.

I will justify why I will not call it "bullshit", although I have already expressed my whole attitude towards them:

1.Physical principles


I repeat again that all the "roof-breakers" that are in service right now use a cumulative damaging effect. Understanding the principle of operation of a cumulative ammunition leads to an understanding of the principle of creating protection.

The lattice, which is one of the methods of mechanical passive protection, only reduces the likelihood of hitting armored vehicles.
Strips of metal can cut the ammunition or break the electrical contact of the first generation grenades using shock or shock-inertial fuses. It is the technical data of the structure itself that are important here - the thickness and width of the metal strips, as well as the distance between them.

And modern highly sensitive inertial fuses can start the process of forming a cumulative jet BEFORE meeting the grate. And here the distance of the grating from the armor itself is important, taking into account the focal length of the shaped charge itself. Also, do not forget that most high-precision cumulative ammunition is TANDEM.

Conclusion from what has been said?
You need TWO lines of defense.

2. Subjective principles


I will also call them “journalistic syndrome”.
Somehow he gave a collective example of how this “brotherhood” worked in the Caucasus and why, ahem, they were not always ... loved.

They attacked a tank company, firing at all 10 vehicles with 2-5 RPG shots. Six cars - at least henna. Four - smoked. Crews with mats jumped out. Two of the four cars took off on the detonation of the BC, two stopped smoking and were started up.

The journalists galloped up and began to shoot with a squeak and a screech exactly TWO cars blown to shreds. Eight (!) surviving (!!!) cars are not interesting to them, they do not remove them.
- Guys, don't hit us! We need “fried” material for the editorial! Readers are not interested in WHOLE cars!!!

Do you think something has changed? No.

And if somewhere a debilitating "umbrella-visor" by chance or probability theory saved a tank from a direct hit by "Java" on the roof of the tower - NOBODY will know about it now, NOBODY will write about it, because ... it's not interesting.
It is now possible to find out about this only by chance.

Here, for example, look at the photo, where, by the way, there is a different kind of visor.


But the main thing here is the absence of a DZ block and there is a video where this car is on fire, but continues to move in a column. That is, the tank was clearly attacked by the PTS, but remained intact. But who cares?
No one.

Lattice screens, whatever one may say, reduce the likelihood of hitting armored vehicles. And in our material, we honestly wrote that if there was a chance that the enemy would use "roof-breakers", we would also go to the database with this damn visor.
Well, since there is NOTHING else, if the Ministry of Defense has not decided to put DZ towers from tandem design bureaus on the Roof.

Even taking into account all those negative and frankly harmful disadvantages of these grids, which were honestly painted in the last article.
So what to do?

Fight for your life


How to increase the protection of lattice data?
We recall point 1 "Physical principles" and do everything to WORSE the comfort of the shaped charge, REDUCING the likelihood of a high-quality work of the cumulative funnel.

And… We begin to act.

At first:
It is possible to weld additional DZ blocks onto the roof of the tower - you need to weld them. It doesn't matter which, Contact-1,5 or 525.
No blocks? There is no "fly" with welding? Throw all sorts of crap on the tower - the same boxes from under the cartridges, and hammer the empty zinc in them with stones. This will be the last line for the "tandem".

Photo to you from Khankala 1996. with Zhilin.


Next:

We throw bags on top of the grate, clogging them with everything that can prevent the charge from CORRECTLY forming a cumulative jet - yes, even with a broken brick, so as not to overload the structure. DZ on top of the grill? Do not be self-willed, talk to the deputy chief and do as he says.

This will be the first frontier for the meeting of the "tandem".

It remains to pray that the focal length of the ammunition and the distance of the grating to the roof of the tower enter the "resonance" of efficiency weapons lesions.

Look at this photo. By the way, there is one of the best lattice options.


The car is quite old. This is T-72B1. That is, the T-72B even without the KUV (guided weapon system).
Without a thermal imager.
No normal connection.
With the old RMSh and the type of links of the psaltery and so on.
And she has already been in alteration, the side screen has been torn off, the remote sensing on the VLD has been partially torn off.
But on the "umbrella" are the necessary, almost correct gifts.

Look at their faces. From the point of view of a mechanic and a gunner.
They are very Familiar. Not faces, I meant expressions. I think, and I really hope that everything will be fine with them ...

Now there is no point in screaming and talking about how bad everything is. No time. It is necessary to use the MAXIMUM of standard, non-standard and any other available means for additional protection of tanks from being hit in the upper part of the tower. At least the towers, because there is a crew. For now, let's forget about the protection of the MTO. Not the time for that.

There is a wise old saying:
In war you can't talk bad about your soldiers. They need to be supported even if they are wrong.


Postscript:

Some of the rules of survival in the T-72:

- Boxes with DZ are all in place and stuffed.
- Ammunition only in the AZ conveyor. Only in AZ.
- Fuel only in internal tanks. Only in internal. This is 705 liters.
- Hatches, if possible, ajar. That is, they “clap”, “hang out” on springs for possible evacuation. But not with the threat of "roof-breakers".
- Do not forget that when the FCS is turned on, the gyroscope spins up for 2-2,5 minutes. This means that in case of a possible potential danger (for example, on the march ahead, according to the map, buildings near the highway), the mechanics switch to the “Combat” position, the gunner turn on the “Drive” toggle switch and “Cheburashka” manually correct the turret GN.
- The AZ conveyor must already be ROLLED onto empty cassettes. That is, when you press the AZ, the cassette should rise to the loading angle INSTANTLY, without scrolling the conveyor.
- All shots must be stacked consecutively WITHOUT gaps.
- At the feet of the gunner and the commander should be empty for physical communication with the mechanic.
- The commander sticks out to the hatch.

I understand that this is not always possible.
I understand that the guys are simultaneously marching and can immediately join the battle.
Therefore, the PSUs are loaded to the eyeballs and the fuel is filled to the maximum, including barrels.
I see.
But if possible, it is better to listen to experience.
And remember that laziness is one of the main enemies when maintaining a database.
Author:
139 comments
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  1. cat-begemot
    cat-begemot 1 March 2022 05: 07
    +32
    Beautiful, and if it saves at least one life, then it’s useful.
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 1 March 2022 12: 32
      +1
      Alexey hi as I read an article, they suggested that the army set aside 3000 T72, but only deeply modernize them. The rest to sell. The modernization of the remaining ones included a version of the tower like on the T90M, longer, which also played the role of protecting the tank engine along the way. Here, on such a tower, both KaZs and gratings, an additional layer of dynamic protection would be easily placed!
    2. Old tanker
      Old tanker 23 March 2022 15: 37
      +1
      Judging by the photos and videos in Ukraine, visors are used only on tanks of the Southern Military District. Where they were introduced by Commander Dvornikov. If these visors had a real practical meaning and proved themselves in battle, then they would quickly be introduced everywhere in the combat zone. But, judging by the fact that these visors flicker less and less ...
    3. Volga-Bulgarian
      Volga-Bulgarian 24 May 2022 23: 01
      0
      Look at their faces. From the point of view of a mechanic and a gunner.
      They are very Familiar. Not faces, I meant expressions. I think, and I really hope that everything will be fine with them ...

      Now there is no point in screaming and talking about how bad everything is. No time. It is necessary to use the MAXIMUM of standard, non-standard and any other available means for additional protection of tanks from being hit in the upper part of the tower. At least the towers, because there is a crew. For now, let's forget about the protection of the MTO. Not the time for that.


      Or you can just gospodarstvo do its job normally and correctly and provide adequate combat technicianand preparation as in normal Western countries ???
  2. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 1 March 2022 05: 09
    +17
    That is, the tank was clearly attacked by the PTS, but remained intact. But who cares?
    No one.

    I saw this video ... immediately drew attention to it ... the gunner turned the turret back and forth.
    On the side they hit something .... without infantry escort, the tanks were probably moving in the village, naturally they ran into a Faustnik.
    You could say we got off easy.
    1. Vostok35
      Vostok35 1 March 2022 05: 38
      +5
      always tanks in the city first target without infantry
    2. Mad_Max
      Mad_Max 6 May 2022 03: 17
      0
      I didn’t see the video, but even from the photo (snapshot) it can be seen that the “visor” is WHOLE. So he didn’t help save the tank in any way, because. at least the visor itself will turn around when hit by an anti-tank missile / grenade (but the tank itself will save "at the cost of its life").
      But flames are visible from somewhere under the tower and something similar to the remains of a torn off side screen hangs from behind.
      Obviously the tank got something in the side.
      This photo is presented as evidence that
      they say, and such miserable "visors" above the tower can save (they save, but no one writes about this / no one is interested). what
  3. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 1 March 2022 06: 05
    +1
    Am I missing something or am I missing something? request The author keeps saying: Look at this photo, look at that ... but I have nothing to look at (!) ... there is no photo!
    1. Mister X
      Mister X 1 March 2022 13: 20
      +1
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      no photo!

      hi
      I counted 7 photos
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 1 March 2022 17: 32
        +2
        Thank you for bringing attention to my problem! yes Now everything is fine ... the pictures have appeared! fellow
  4. just exp
    just exp 1 March 2022 06: 10
    +20
    and even when he said that KAZ is needed and not just KAZ, but which protects the upper hemisphere, and ours {cut by censorship} save even with Armata so that Afghanit protects the top only with interference (a new GOS comes out and these interferences go through the forest).
    how many lives and equipment would now be saved if the deer from the Moscow Region did not think about their pocket and chair, but about what the army needs and how to save the fighters.
    Threat you can scold Serdkyukov as much as you like, but so far this is the best minister of the Moscow Region (you will tell tales about the collapse of the army to grandmothers at the entrance, who watched what was happening understood why there were disbandments and how it was connected with the fact that it was necessary to survive from the Moscow region the rats dug in there and survive them could only be a rat eater)
    1. Sanguinius
      Sanguinius 1 March 2022 06: 34
      +3
      I don’t know what’s going on there ... but in addition to the lost samples, we have a lot of abandoned equipment.

      Here is the stupidly abandoned T-90A
      1. just exp
        just exp 1 March 2022 06: 45
        -4
        I have only one thought, that the people in the army understand that this war will not last long and that it is stupid from the very beginning (in terms of the skakuas idiots ruined their country and imagined themselves to be some kind of separate people) and that it makes no sense to be a hero to the last where it makes sense there is nothing special about it.
        and you can leave the technique, it will still come back, so why die for it?
        1. ViacheslavS
          ViacheslavS 1 March 2022 12: 24
          +6
          The most likely options are either a breakdown or lack of fuel due to unorganized supply.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 1 March 2022 10: 53
        +9
        Quote: Sanguinius
        Here is the stupidly abandoned T-90A

        As one retired military man said, when equipment "stupidly" breaks down during a march, it often happens! In order not to delay the column, not to slow down the speed of movement, the equipment is abandoned! They could have fired at the convoy "from the bottom", knocked out some equipment ... The column, basically, survived, but it is necessary to arrive on time at the appointed point, and therefore the knocked out equipment is also abandoned! So ... this retiree suggested that this abandoned equipment banderlogs could set fire to and "illustrate"! If they have the opportunity to "collect" such equipment in different places into one ... then they could also "illustrate" the "defeat of the Russian column"! By the way, they could also "dilute" the abandoned equipment with their own for "calicism"! (In the comments to the videos, some users note that there are "padded" "Russian" equipment without Russian identification marks! Moreover, in "camouflage" or T-64 tanks ...)
        1. Aleks tv
          1 March 2022 15: 45
          +14
          . As one retired military man said, when equipment "stupidly" breaks down during a march, it often happens! In order not to delay the column, not to slow down the speed of movement, the equipment is abandoned!

          Hello.

          Cases vary...
          But, as a rule, there is - a general "rule".
          1. The column (Ribbon) really goes without stopping with "plans" of halts, tied in place and time.
          After all, the commander has a scheduled "Time H + -".
          2. At the end of the column, in front of the TPZ, there is a deputy tech with flying cars and duty tractors.
          In the case of minor repairs, it is done on the spot under the cover of guards allocated by the TPZ, in other cases, the faulty equipment is stupidly taken by the tractor on a hard tie and moves behind the column.
          3. If it is impossible to pick up the damaged equipment, they undermine it, so that later, someday, it can be dragged to the collection point for damaged vehicles to be written off.
          But HOW TO WRITE OFF abandoned equipment that can be fired ??? I don't know..... Previously, you could get NSS for this with a very "unpleasant" conversation with gloomy "people".
          Yes, this was the order earlier when maintaining the database.
          1. Sanguinius
            Sanguinius 1 March 2022 22: 24
            -2
            Apparently, ours are leaving in a hurry, they don’t even spoil the equipment. Some trucks even leave the keys in place
          2. Kozak Za Bugra
            Kozak Za Bugra 2 March 2022 08: 53
            +1
            Hello hi ! I just watched what they write in networks in Ukraine, it is
            At the end of the column, in front of the TPZ, there is a deputy commander with flying cars and duty tractors.
            . The networks warn that they would not stay near the abandoned Russian equipment for a long time due to the fact that the repair parts drive up very quickly, therefore it is advised to take photos of the bistro if it is possible to set fire to it and take your feet off the spot ...
          3. English tarantas
            English tarantas 3 March 2022 19: 39
            0
            If it is impossible to pick up the damaged equipment, it is undermined

            Exactly. Because if the equipment is left, it is destroyed in order not to give it to the enemy, but if it is thrown, then it is in the form as it was.
      3. igor67
        igor67 1 March 2022 11: 29
        -4
        Quote: Sanguinius
        I don’t know what’s going on there ... but in addition to the lost samples, we have a lot of abandoned equipment.

        Here is the stupidly abandoned T-90A

        A lot of abandoned equipment, stupidly no fuel
        1. igor67
          igor67 1 March 2022 11: 34
          +2
          Here the villagers steal with a tractor
          1. igor67
            igor67 1 March 2022 11: 44
            +2
            this shell, abandoned as a joke, was put up for sale
            1. Sanguinius
              Sanguinius 1 March 2022 11: 47
              +4
              yeah i saw it. There are also pictures of two of our T-80Us of the Kantemirovskaya division abandoned, they put each other and left them standing.
            2. igor67
              igor67 1 March 2022 11: 57
              -4
              t80, or rather a tower, a lot of shots, basically nothing remains of the tank, due to the explosion of ammunition
      4. gjkrjdybr50
        gjkrjdybr50 1 March 2022 18: 19
        +1
        Sanguinium, according to the Ministry of Defense, T-90s were not introduced into Ukraine, only T-72s. Or is it not true?
        1. Sanguinius
          Sanguinius 1 March 2022 22: 19
          +2
          No, it’s not true, everything was introduced there, just as I saw the fixation of the fact that they were dragged by echelons to Ukraine, I have a photo of our wrecked T-90A
        2. Sanguinius
          Sanguinius 1 March 2022 22: 22
          +1

          Here he is himself.
      5. Old tanker
        Old tanker 23 March 2022 15: 41
        +1
        Very simple. On the territory occupied by the enemy, if the tank breaks down or if the fuel runs out. They throw him hard. In addition, in the first days of the operation, a command was given to leave cars that cannot be quickly repaired, leave. In order not to break the pace of the march. They were supposed to be picked up by special evacuation groups of the senior commander.
      6. Igor K
        Igor K April 18 2022 08: 34
        0
        Apparently, the fuel ran out, at the beginning of the company, apparently due to the still poorly organized supply, such photographs were met, now there are no photographs of our equipment abandoned by us.
    2. YOUR.
      YOUR. 1 March 2022 08: 13
      +3
      How nice that the point of view coincides with mine, which was formed 10 years ago. I wonder what the author thinks about Chubais hated by everyone?
      1. shtatsov
        shtatsov 1 March 2022 12: 44
        +8
        Only one thing surprises about Chubais! I think he knows how the Russians love him! But he lives in Russia! A normal person would have left the country a long time ago or would have drunk himself! He has a strong psyche and a complete lack of conscience.
        1. YOUR.
          YOUR. 2 March 2022 16: 09
          +1
          Chubais in the economy is Serdyukov in the Armed Forces. Do you really think that for years Chubais systematically ruined the economy, which was unnecessary in that capacity, in such a way that no one from the ruling elite saw this? Come on!
    3. Daniil Dmitrienko
      Daniil Dmitrienko 1 March 2022 09: 18
      0
      R&D on KAZ in the upper hemisphere is underway
    4. Disant
      Disant 1 March 2022 17: 04
      0
      who followed what was happening understood why there were disbandments and how it was connected with the fact that it was necessary to survive from the MO of rats dug in there and only a cannibal rat could survive them)

      Well, how did you observe? what kind of rats did you hunt there? Come on, I'll bend my fingers!
      .
      even if you take only one aspect -
      turn on the news from Ukraine soon and look - Russian soldiers -contractors with a full year of service! did they gain a lot of experience in a year of service with a ponytail?
      I didn’t see much of normal muzzles there! where are they all?
      .
      yes, two years of service were canceled under him, when they managed to make a good mature soldier, with ingenuity, one might even say - experienced.
      .
      who gives you a plus - I don’t understand
      1. gjkrjdybr50
        gjkrjdybr50 1 March 2022 18: 24
        -4
        Disant, only contract soldiers were introduced into Ukraine. Wait tonight, in your TsIPSO, a repeated "gift", seeing one Caliber on your oak heads is not enough.
        1. shrus79
          shrus79 10 March 2022 23: 10
          0
          The other day they admitted that there were conscripts, but against the order and everything has already been regulated, the perpetrators will be punished. https://www.interfax.ru/world/827191
      2. werke326
        werke326 April 9 2022 10: 37
        +1
        Yes, this is a modern trend for them, and among the young, they say Serdyukov was kicked out of the way, this is not the first time I meet this. Written by those who were still in school at the time.
    5. English tarantas
      English tarantas 3 March 2022 19: 36
      -1
      protects only with interference (a new seeker comes out and these interferences go through the forest)

      You don't even need a new gsn. It's basically useless. Yes, TOW-2B will stop, but what to do with the same hellfire whose fuse is still contact? How strong a source of interference should be made so that the hellfire does not have time to simply set a point for itself and fly to it according to ins.
    6. werke326
      werke326 April 9 2022 10: 22
      +3
      I didn’t see a single rat survived by Serdyukov, but teachers of military schools thrown into the street, yes, military generals sent to retire, heroes of the war with Georgia, transferred to the reserve immediately after it. I would like to ask the question, what were the cuts to with Serdyukov? There are not enough contractors, conscripts are just ballast incapable of anything, all combat-ready people from related departments were driven to perform special. operation. Well, with a naked eye you can see that there are not enough people and equipment, and this is precisely the consequence of the policy of reducing the armed forces and transferring them to a new "quality". That they will cease to die in their new capacity, or will they be afraid? All these negotiations are a consequence of the fact that we are now simply unable to master the entire territory, with such an intensity of the database. So the ghost of the resurrecting Serdyukov needs to be buried and never remembered.
  5. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 1 March 2022 06: 25
    +41
    There is a wise old saying:
    In war you can't talk bad about your soldiers. They need to be supported even if they are wrong.

    Correct words ! YouTube is full of all sorts of crap, but the most disgusting thing is when you see "comments from Russians" praising "gotten fighters" and cursing Russian soldiers! I really hope that a significant part of these "comments" are the fruit of the Ukrainian Goebbels department's coming out propagandists; but the sediment remains, because you understand that there are those who live in Russia and shit in it, and trying to speak on behalf of the Russians all sorts of nasty things about Russia, its army, about the people ... I can be critical of the ruling regime of power, Putin ... but when my country is at war, I cannot rejoice in the death of my fellow citizens, in any failures of my (!) Army!
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 1 March 2022 07: 30
      +6
      "comments of the Russians" praising the "coming out fighters" and cursing the Russian soldiers!

      Do not worry about them very little ... a fraction of a percent of our people ... traitors have always been, are and will be ... we just need to identify them in time and make them work for the good of our country.
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 1 March 2022 09: 58
      +6
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      I can be critical of the ruling regime of power, Putin ... but when my country is at war, I cannot rejoice at the death of my fellow citizens, any failures of my (!) Army!

      Very correct words!
    3. Mister X
      Mister X 1 March 2022 13: 32
      +3
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      "comments of the Russians" praising "the coming out fighters"

      These may be liberals who support Navalny, Tikhanovskaya, etc.
      Or "white emigration" ...
      There are plenty of them in Paris and London
      It seems like they love Russia from afar, but they scold it in every way.
    4. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 1 March 2022 13: 37
      +1
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      There is a wise old saying:
      In war you can't talk bad about your soldiers. They need to be supported even if they are wrong.

      Correct words ! YouTube is full of all sorts of crap, but the most disgusting thing is when you see "comments from Russians" praising "gotten fighters" and cursing Russian soldiers! I really hope that a significant part of these "comments" are the fruit of the Ukrainian Goebbels department's coming out propagandists; but the sediment remains, because you understand that there are those who live in Russia and shit in it, and trying to speak on behalf of the Russians all sorts of nasty things about Russia, its army, about the people ... I can be critical of the ruling regime of power, Putin ... but when my country is at war, I cannot rejoice in the death of my fellow citizens, in any failures of my (!) Army!

      Of course, I’m not happy, but there are questions. Now it’s already obvious that the pace of movement has seriously decreased
  6. Sanguinius
    Sanguinius 1 March 2022 06: 29
    -3
    By the way, I saw video footage of a downed T-80BVM with a turret torn off, they lost it on the very first day of the clashes, ours could not keep some kind of denouement.
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 23 March 2022 15: 49
      +1
      It was so. There is a video where two T-80BVMs are fighting on the road near Kharkov. One is knocked out. And there is a video and photo of this tank after the detonation of ammunition.
      1. Sanguinius
        Sanguinius 23 March 2022 15: 52
        +2
        Well, I didn’t see the video, I didn’t come across it, although there is a photo captured by the Ukrainians of our T-80BVM
  7. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 1 March 2022 06: 30
    +1
    Alex, hi! I have no doubt that at least some of the umbrellas have fulfilled their function! However, the very first photo shows the thoughtlessness of many "modifiers"! Well, is this tall shield over the commander's hatch really necessary ?! Well, not a thousand kilometer marches are carried out, so that you can’t do without this tarpaulin shield?
    1. Aleks tv
      1 March 2022 15: 52
      +8
      . Well, is this tall shield over the commander's hatch really necessary ?!

      Hello Volodya.

      This canvas shield is a very useful item. on the march.)))
      Taking into account the fact that a normal commander EVER "sticks out in the hatch" during the march, he does not badly beat off wind, dust and other garbage.))
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 1 March 2022 16: 48
        +1
        Hi Hi! ))

        Quote: Aleks tv
        This canvas shield is a very useful thing on the march.)))
        Yes, I know about the marches, but judge for yourself, in this case the umbrella turned into a profanity. The tower in front from above is not covered at all, only if there is a hit strictly at 90 degrees.
        Here I think I will have to choose between a cold or dusty commander and an almost guaranteed defeat from above. hi
  8. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 1 March 2022 06: 44
    +4
    Most of the tanks are now damaged, destroyed not by guns, but by the actions of cannon artillery from 122 to 152 mm ..
  9. Soldatov V.
    Soldatov V. 1 March 2022 06: 45
    +1
    For some reason, there is no information about the BMPT, but it was created just to protect tanks from grenade launchers. There is also no information about the Pinocchio system, because not all of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are hiding in cities.
    Another issue is the use of homing anti-tank mines dropped from various carriers by parachute.
    Judging by the photographs, it is necessary to cover the engine that generates heat, on which the Javelin is aimed. Maybe I'm wrong, but the towers are intact. soldier
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 1 March 2022 07: 41
      +1
      They protect people, but you can’t close the engine, the tower must rotate.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 1 March 2022 10: 33
      +2
      Quote: V.
      it is necessary to cover the engine that generates heat, on which the Javelin is induced. Maybe I'm wrong, but the towers are intact.

      Actually, I am of the same opinion that MTO is in the top priorities for anti-tank weapons! I made this conclusion at the end of the last century, when I paid attention to the characteristics of the anti-tank weapons being developed ... In the performance characteristics of the "new" anti-tank weapons, the possibility of hitting armored vehicles in the MTO from above was laid down ... hence at one time "priority" was given to IK.GOS and IR coordinators! (True, later a "competitor" appeared - active radar seekers of the Ka-band ...) As a result of this, measures were taken, primarily to protect the MTO ... For example: 1. IR emitters were placed on the telescopic rod, 2. above MTOs put heat shields with forced heat removal to the side, 3. laser beam illumination of the "patch" on the ground near the tank, 4. grenade launchers with "aerosol" grenades forming an IR shielding curtain, 5. IR shielding "capes", 6 "Smart" (or "intelligent" ...) screens that create a different thermal "image"
      1. Soldatov V.
        Soldatov V. 1 March 2022 11: 13
        +2
        There is a Russian system of protection against MANPADS on our helicopters, for example Mi-17. Why not put it on tanks after completion.
        I think a considerable number of Javelins have already fallen into the hands of the Russian army, and it is possible to make protection at the engineering level by shooting according to protection samples. What we see is homemade not from a good life.
        We also have a system for protecting against electrically detonated land mines. It can also be used after refinement against Javelin, which is crammed with electronics.
        All this must be done quickly, not the fact that we will not soon have to fight directly with NATO, clearing the foothold in the Baltics.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 1 March 2022 11: 56
          +2
          Quote: V.
          There is a Russian system of protection against MANPADS on our helicopters, for example Mi-17. Why not put it on tanks after completion.

          Alas! The MANPADS protection system may not work on the tank! Still, the signatures are different, and the speed of the object moving away from the "point" of preliminary aiming is different ...
          Quote: V.
          I think a considerable number of Javelins have already fallen into the hands of the Russian army,

          I think that "javelins" got to Russia long before the start of the "special military operation" in Ukraine ... there are various possibilities for this! Why have not real effective measures been developed ... niht fershtein! In Russia, everything often comes down to price and lack of money!
        2. Volga-Bulgarian
          Volga-Bulgarian 24 May 2022 23: 04
          0
          This system works against missiles with infrared seeker. 90 percent of ATGMs and passive guidance.
    3. Third district
      Third district 10 March 2022 18: 25
      0
      Quote: V.
      For some reason, there is no information about the BMPT, but it was created just to protect tanks from grenade launchers.

      About the "Terminators" is also not heard at all. I wonder how they performed in battles.
  10. riwas
    riwas 1 March 2022 07: 33
    +5
    Tank "visors" in Ukraine

    They already wrote on VO that we have protection. That's just for some reason it is not in our troops. "Cape" - is a cover sewn to the size of a tank, infantry fighting vehicle or any other wheeled-tracked vehicle. The "cloak" is tailored in such a way that it completely covers, for example, a tank, including hinged dynamic protection. The camouflage performance is fantastic. The fabric consists of a special flame retardant synthetic thermal insulation material that reduces the temperature of its top layer to the same temperature as the surrounding air.
    https://rg.ru/2022/02/24/sozdany-kompleksy-zashchity-voennoj-tehniki-ot-samogo-vysokotochnogo-oruzhiia.html
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 1 March 2022 13: 40
      +1
      Quote: riwas
      Tank "visors" in Ukraine

      They already wrote on VO that we have protection. That's just for some reason it is not in our troops. "Cape" - is a cover sewn to the size of a tank, infantry fighting vehicle or any other wheeled-tracked vehicle. The "cloak" is tailored in such a way that it completely covers, for example, a tank, including hinged dynamic protection. The camouflage performance is fantastic. The fabric consists of a special flame retardant synthetic thermal insulation material that reduces the temperature of its top layer to the same temperature as the surrounding air.
      https://rg.ru/2022/02/24/sozdany-kompleksy-zashchity-voennoj-tehniki-ot-samogo-vysokotochnogo-oruzhiia.html

      She is good in the parking lot and in an ambush, but useless in the offensive.
  11. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 1 March 2022 07: 40
    +3
    I don’t understand one thing, why not throw a couple of sandbags or stones with sand on the grate? The effect will be much better. Visibility from above is not so important, it still won't help.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 1 March 2022 09: 24
      +4
      On the old M-113 in Gaza, gratings were installed on the sides (on the sides) and sandbags between them and the hull. The same principle can be used on the visor - just two bars and bags between them.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 1 March 2022 11: 08
        +3
        Quote: Krasnodar
        The same principle can be used on the visor - just two bars and bags between them.

        Such proposals were "voiced"! Offered not only bags! Maybe the Enarals did not have enough time to figure out: "to have or not to have"? request
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 1 March 2022 11: 14
          +3
          It seems that apart from parades and “here, we have taken measures”, they don’t care
        2. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev 2 March 2022 15: 30
          0
          And what do the generals have to do with it, all this is simply done by the crews.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 2 March 2022 17: 39
            +1
            Quote: Victor Sergeev
            what do the generals have to do with it, this is all elementarily done by the crews.

            Well, yes ... elementary visors ... elementary performance ... on elementary principles! And how long will it all be "elementary"?
      2. igor67
        igor67 1 March 2022 12: 27
        0
        [center] well, here is a bag in the picture, they tried something
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 1 March 2022 13: 42
          +1
          Quote: igor67
          [center] well, here is a bag in the picture, they tried something

          It makes no sense to talk about infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. There is bulletproof armor
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 1 March 2022 15: 36
            0
            Quote: Pilat2009
            It makes no sense to talk about infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. There is bulletproof armor

            Don't mind 12.7mm
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 1 March 2022 15: 35
          0
          This bag is not for protection.
          1. igor67
            igor67 1 March 2022 15: 46
            0
            . Well, here's another lined, or rather two, the trunk of the second on the left
            1. Wildcat
              Wildcat 1 March 2022 16: 49
              +5
              There are many photos on the net of visually intact equipment. Without people. A bad sign about the "half-sea-composition" of the personnel.
              IMHO, it was not necessary to select phones, it was necessary to give their channels 24/7.

              Mr. Konashenkov, IMHO, is not finishing up a bit. Even in terms of information.
              And the children of the Internet generation (even in uniform) will not read leaflets and newspapers, they will listen to the radio and still get into the Internet.
              1. igor67
                igor67 1 March 2022 16: 58
                +1
                They are already dismantling it, it looks like a whole
                1. igor67
                  igor67 1 March 2022 17: 01
                  0
                  this screen is from the same video, the second tank
              2. Gvardeetz77
                Gvardeetz77 1 March 2022 21: 28
                +1
                Quote: Wildcat


                Mr. Konashenkov, IMHO, is not finishing up a bit. (

                Not a little, but a lot. The level of work of his management would probably be good at the turn of the century, during two companies, but now it’s not at all the same .... Also IMHO
              3. certero
                certero 10 March 2022 10: 48
                +1
                Mister konoshenko does not finish a damn thing at all. A talking head without a picture in the 70st century? Who the hell needs this? Is propaganda designed for generation XNUMX+? why is there no picture with the Ukrainian columns crushed? why are there no frames where enemy equipment is destroyed? Such shots are primarily needed for propaganda among the enemy so that he understands that he is imminently threatened with destruction.
          2. igor67
            igor67 1 March 2022 17: 08
            +1
            here near Nikolaev, already with bags
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 2 March 2022 01: 51
      +1
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      I don’t understand one thing, why not throw a couple of sandbags or stones with sand on the grate?
  12. tank64rus
    tank64rus 1 March 2022 08: 23
    +5
    We need a means of distorting the thermal signature of the tank and the Javelin will be neutralized. A similar thing was used in Sweden on a tank, though only developments.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Dilettante grandfather
    Dilettante grandfather 1 March 2022 08: 55
    +6
    I will support the author: you need to think and do. Someone decided - "And so it will do."
  15. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 1 March 2022 09: 22
    +4
    Two bars with sandbags between them
  16. tank64rus
    tank64rus 1 March 2022 09: 35
    +4
    Put on the side projections of the tank UDSH, as in Chechnya during the second assault on Grozny in the form of an aerosol container. There they set up and the defenders had very big problems.
  17. Vikxnumx
    Vikxnumx 1 March 2022 11: 06
    +2
    Well written! Thanks!
  18. Maks1995
    Maks1995 1 March 2022 11: 32
    0
    All right. "In the absence of a stamp, write in plain"
  19. squid
    squid 1 March 2022 11: 37
    +3
    what a nightmare .. a probable adversary has had weapons in the upper hemisphere for 25 years, an example of protection in the form of a kaz trophy has been developed for 17 years, but we don’t itch ... for such a land-based continental power as Russia, in whose army there are tanks are of key importance, a normal all-perspective kaz should have no less priority than nuclear weapons! and even more so much larger than all the boats taken together, which are so dreamed of on this site .. and it’s not Newton’s binomial, the modern military-industrial complex should be able to solve this problem! but I suspect that no one even set it up .. just as no one really dealt with Karabakh with attack drones, they won’t remember about kazy until they lose several hundred tanks in Ukraine (
  20. squid
    squid 1 March 2022 11: 46
    0
    Quote: just explo
    we need KAZ and not just KAZ, but which protects the upper hemisphere, and ours {cut by censorship} save even with Armata, so Afghanit only protects the top with interference


    I'm a big plus! the most obvious and correct solution. lattices are a palliative. besides, they will not protect.
    according to rumor, the kaz trophy on the merkavas still knows how to automatically turn the turret and shoot at the birdman, I don’t know, really no.
    in general, for a good 30mm cannon on top of the tower, put + offs of remote detonation, and let the slow-flying birds automatically shoot down and fire at the launch site
    1. vl903
      vl903 1 March 2022 15: 50
      0
      a switchable KAZ is great, if the infantry is nearby, it is turned off. If it is turned on in the city and the infantry is on the side.
      even better is a pair of platoon drones over the tank and its infantry platoon. to see the javelin before launch
  21. vindigo
    vindigo 1 March 2022 12: 01
    +3
    Maybe these tanks died from ordinary crowbars or cumulative ones? Not necessarily from a roofer.
  22. Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 1 March 2022 12: 12
    +5
    Well, okay, they can’t at least buy 400 T-14 Armata and T-15 infantry fighting vehicles for special operations forces (still being tested), but I still don’t understand why they can’t buy and install 400 KAZ Arena-M on tanks.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 1 March 2022 13: 44
      +1
      Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
      Well, okay, they can’t at least buy 400 T-14 Armata and T-15 infantry fighting vehicles for special operations forces (still being tested), but I still don’t understand why they can’t buy and install 400 KAZ Arena-M on tanks.

      Because Rusnano is more important
  23. Wildcat
    Wildcat 1 March 2022 12: 39
    +6
    Necessary, good article! May more of us survive!
    It would be nice to explain to young personnel that all friends are with you in the same uniform, there are no others. Do not walk or ride alone, even "around the corner". Take weapons with you ("sometimes you can go to the market with a grenade in your hands" - advice from the 90s). Everything interesting, from shops to "relax" - in the Russian Federation and not earlier. Do not forget to sleep, eat (even if you don’t feel like it), ss..b and cf.
    PS My relatives "went to serve" there.
    1. tank64rus
      tank64rus 1 March 2022 16: 19
      +1
      My dad commanded a reconnaissance company in WWII. His adjutant was from the Germans (he died in 1945 in Vienna, closing his father. God rest him). so even in the rear, if the father went to the restroom, he took a machine gun and guarded it. Remember, now you need to do it on the basis of orders on the behavior of troops in Western Ukraine in 19444. To analyze them all and under the signature of the commanders. Otherwise, there are fights and guides and caches and explosives, etc. Be very careful.
      1. Wildcat
        Wildcat 1 March 2022 16: 57
        +3
        there now needs to be done on the basis of orders on the behavior of troops in Western Ukraine in 19444
        there and so in the troops leaflets and the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda. But now it’s not 1944, but 2022. And if we don’t “work” on the Internet, then “another one” works there. As in 1944 it will no longer work.

        And also in terms of behavior: "do not overgrow with mud" if possible. And talk to your people on any non-military topics, including "here's what I ate now" and "how women work." If someone clogs into a corner, does not respond adequately, take action.
  24. shtatsov
    shtatsov 1 March 2022 12: 49
    0
    [quote = Soldatov V.
    All this needs to be done quickly, it’s not a fact that we won’t have to fight directly with NATO soon, clearing the foothold in the Baltic states. [/ Quote]
    If the Tribalts do not supply themselves with missiles, then why do we need them to fight? After Ukraine, I don’t think that they will be such suicidal.
    1. Soldatov V.
      Soldatov V. 1 March 2022 15: 53
      0
      Try to think deeper and more voluminously. If they deliver, and if they don't? And you will guess how (guote)
      1. shtatsov
        shtatsov 1 March 2022 21: 03
        0
        If deeper and more voluminous. Then the whole world must immediately be in ruins!
        Thank you for explaining everything, I will not die now an idiot!))
  25. niks.s2017
    niks.s2017 1 March 2022 14: 10
    +1
    I would like to ask a question on the topic. Always wondered why our tanks have such relatively small turrets compared to Western tanks? Their towers are wide and long, covering the hull both in width and length. For example, the same Leclerc, Merkava, Abrams. Why is that?
    1. vl903
      vl903 1 March 2022 15: 46
      0
      I am a couch tanker. it seems to me: 1 they have in the bk tower
      2. they sacrificed the mass
      the way out for us is armata. the crew is protected and taken to the capsule.
    2. English tarantas
      English tarantas 3 March 2022 20: 40
      0
      Wide due to manual loading. It is necessary to give the afro-automatic enough space to throw a heavy projectile no slower than AZ tips. Long: a) loading again (he needs to be behind the breech, well, as far as possible and there should be a distance between the shell stacking flap and the gun, so that there is somewhere to get it), b) ammunition rack in the tower, in the back of the head, c) well, ours really tried make the tower smaller in order to reduce the chance of penetration and increase the angles of safe maneuvering (roughly speaking, the smaller the tower, the larger its volumes can be covered with thick frontal armor, as a result, for example, the angle by which the Abrams tower can turn so that the enemy sees the side of the tower less than Soviet tanks).
      Why are the turrets (relatively) small in width on old tanks with manual loading? Then, in general, they didn’t reach the point that the more comfortable the loader was, the faster the reload, then with a long, roughly speaking, these tanks were given the task of squeezing as much as possible out of the loader, because these tanks were made in response to the Soviet ones with AZ and it was necessary to compete with the piece of iron. The tanks of the 30s had small towers, then they already realized that charging needed a place, but in the USSR they took the path of lowering the silhouette, so it turned out that the t-34 and kv had a very small tower, 34-85 and is better, but tigers, panthers, and Shermans are still bigger in the tower. You can google what the place of the loader looked like, for example, in the t-62 and the American m60, then the t-62 had the task of reducing the size of the tower, including at the cost of the comfort of the loader, but the m60 does not care.
      How did you compensate for a large tower that is easier to hit? But no way, the goal was immediately set there - to increase the range of fire, these tanks were made to shoot the Soviet ones, which means that the emphasis was on the firing range, that is, the large tower was not an easier target, since it was located where the advice was harder to hit. (this struggle for range was expressed in the French amx-30 tank, which was in service from the 70s to our century, but did not receive a stabilizer, he did not have to go and shoot, he first took up a position and then fired).
      And about BC is also very interesting. On the one hand, if you place it in the hull, then the tank in the cover will not receive a shell in the BC at all, but if the tank is outside the cover, then the BC inside the hull will destroy the vehicle completely and without a chance. But if the tank is in the tower, then you can separate it from the internal space with a thick partition, and make so-called knockout panels on the roof, in general, in fact, take the tank out of the tank as far as possible. As a result, there are such things as: on Leclerc tanks, type 90 and type 10, although there is an automatic zarchzhaniya, but the BC is in the back of the turret, on the Leopard2 tank, half the BC is in the turret, and more than half in the hull behind the frontal armor, and in the abrams there is room for 6 shells inside, in general, in the turret, but in the depths there, on some old tanks, when there were no knockout panels, the ammo could only be in the hull, just to hide it behind cover, and on some it’s still in the turret, since to load from the body is still very uncomfortable. (on the challenger, by the way, shells and porous charges are separate, like on our tanks, but the loading is manual, but some of the shells and charges are hung there on the walls of the tower around the loader’s place, they decided to generally focus on loading speed, at the cost of survivability, although it is also worth noting that the armor there is generally good, when the tank was made all the more, but in general you can not hang the shells on the tower, but leave it only in the back of the head behind the partition.
      That's it, I hope I answered fully
    3. English tarantas
      English tarantas 3 March 2022 20: 44
      0
      And by the way, about merkava. There is no BC in the tower, it's just that the armor of the tower takes up a large volume and it seems that it is very huge. Yes, it is big, but inside it is not as much as it seems. Bk is there in the hull in the cow part, in fact, where the tower is, so the Israelis are not worried that the tank will tear the whole thing apart, because in open areas the bk is still "far away". And there is a semi-automatic loader, roughly speaking, an automatic projectile supply "under the arms" of the loader.
  26. KKND
    KKND 1 March 2022 16: 44
    0
    I don’t want to offend a shell-shocked person, but does the author really believe that a visor with sandbags will protect against the Javelin?
    Let me remind you that the Javelina warhead is tandem, weighs 8 kg, like the Hellfire, armor penetration behind the DZ is only 600-700 mm (with a tank turret roof thickness of 50-70 mm) and penetration is so funny because the cumulative jet is very wide, so that the crew is guaranteed to be killed by gases from the explosion of the Javelin through a large hole.
    And against such a warhead to defend himself with bars with bags, is it not funny for the author himself?
    In the best case, an explosion on the grate will occur and there will be a hole in the roof, but too many gases will not go into the tower.
    In any case, computer calculations are needed, and not amateur performance of military personnel.
    1. Aleks tv
      1 March 2022 17: 07
      +6
      . does the author really believe that a visor with sandbags will protect against the Javelin?

      Read my first part first.

      It is better to read and think first, and then write, than vice versa.
      1. KKND
        KKND 1 March 2022 17: 16
        +2
        Quote: Aleks tv
        Read my first part first.

        So I read the first part. There you are definitely against visors.
        However, here already
        Quote: Aleks tv
        We throw bags on top of the grate, clogging them with everything that can prevent the charge from CORRECTLY forming a cumulative jet - yes, even with a broken brick, so as not to overload the structure. DZ on top of the grill? Do not be self-willed, talk to the deputy chief and do as he says.

        Nothing is clear, there is against, here it is already FOR!
        Clarify your position.
        1. Aleks tv
          1 March 2022 17: 23
          +6
          . Nothing is clear, there is against, here it is already FOR!
          Clarify your position.

          Imagine that you are now in Ukraine.
          in our tank.
          You will move forward soon.
          Perhaps they will work for you with Java.
          All you have is this... damn, visor.
          Your actions?

          In such cases, we did everything to minimize the likelihood of defeat.
          ...........

          I understand perfectly well that those who need it do not have the opportunity to read VO in comfort now ....

          I think that they do about the same as we used to - from improvised means.
          1. KKND
            KKND 1 March 2022 18: 08
            +2
            Quote: Aleks tv
            In such cases, we did everything to minimize the likelihood of defeat.

            In short, it's understandable. Psychological protection with a visor.
            Maybe it will help, here modeling should be carried out. With real tests.
            I bet no. The roof thickness is too small. At best, the commander and gunner will be very shell-shocked if the ammunition load does not explode.
          2. tank64rus
            tank64rus 2 March 2022 15: 24
            0
            We saw containers with UDSH on tanks in Chechnya. They work perfectly, moreover, it’s a checker when cast and a thermal trap. I read it in a magazine, and it gives smoke enough to smoke, even snipers could not work.
    2. Usher
      Usher 1 March 2022 20: 08
      +2
      Quote: KKND
      I don’t want to offend a shell-shocked person, but does the author really believe that a visor with sandbags will protect against the Javelin?
      Let me remind you that the Javelina warhead is tandem, weighs 8 kg, like the Hellfire, armor penetration behind the DZ is only 600-700 mm (with a tank turret roof thickness of 50-70 mm) and penetration is so funny because the cumulative jet is very wide, so that the crew is guaranteed to be killed by gases from the explosion of the Javelin through a large hole.
      And against such a warhead to defend himself with bars with bags, is it not funny for the author himself?
      In the best case, an explosion on the grate will occur and there will be a hole in the roof, but too many gases will not go into the tower.
      In any case, computer calculations are needed, and not amateur performance of military personnel.

      There is no Javelin on your video at all. And the model is generally incomprehensible, Leopard1? This is done for the WarThunder game when a mine hits the commander's hatch. It has nothing to do with reality at all. The cumulative jet cannot be "wide"; it either exists or it does not.
      1. KKND
        KKND 2 March 2022 15: 55
        +1
        Quote: Usher
        There is no Javelin on your video at all.

        The video that I posted is just an example of a computer simulation using more or less serious software. This video has nothing to do with the game WarThunder or the developers of this game. Just an example of the fact that on a computer you can create a simulation of protection with a visor.
        Quote: Usher
        The cumulative jet cannot be "wide"; it either exists or it does not.

        This is where you are wrong. Not a specialist in cumulative warheads, never, but I saw a video and read that it is possible to change the thickness of a cumulative jet (shape) by giving a special shape to the lining.
        That is, you can make a thin jet, which will have the maximum possible penetration, or thicker, with less penetration. It is necessary to give the lining the desired shape.
    3. garri-lin
      garri-lin 2 March 2022 17: 39
      +1
      Dear. The mass of explosives in the dart is 2,5 kg. Not at all 8.
      1. KKND
        KKND 2 March 2022 17: 53
        0
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin
        Warhead weight 8.4 kg (19 lb) [10]
        Warhead consists not only of explosives
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 4 March 2022 16: 03
          +1
          The impact depends on the amount of explosives. Everything else is secondary. For the cumul there is also a funnel metal.
          1. KKND
            KKND 5 March 2022 15: 38
            0
            Quote: garri-lin
            The impact depends on the amount of explosives. Everything else is secondary. For the cumul there is also a funnel metal.

            Complete nonsense! The warhead is written along with the striking elements. In cases of a cumulative jet, the striking element was metal funnels. In the case of artillery shells, bombs or anti-aircraft missiles, the damaging elements are fragments that are specially packed in warheads.
            This is due to the low density of the air around us. The blast wave does almost no damage to buildings or military equipment made of metal.
            Even a blast wave basically contuses a person, and does not completely kill, at decent distances.
            For you to understand, a 900 kg Mk.84 bomb with a blast wave is guaranteed to kill people at a distance of 7 meters from the point of explosion, and at a distance of 22 meters it is guaranteed to kill them with shrapnel.
            Welcome to the real world! bully
  27. Dost
    Dost 1 March 2022 20: 37
    +1
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Quote: Sanguinius
    Here is the stupidly abandoned T-90A

    As one retired military man said, when equipment "stupidly" breaks down during a march, it often happens! In order not to delay the column, not to slow down the speed of movement, the equipment is abandoned! They could have fired at the convoy "from the bottom", knocked out some equipment ... The column, basically, survived, but it is necessary to arrive on time at the appointed point, and therefore the knocked out equipment is also abandoned! So ... this retiree suggested that this abandoned equipment banderlogs could set fire to and "illustrate"! If they have the opportunity to "collect" such equipment in different places into one ... then they could also "illustrate" the "defeat of the Russian column"! By the way, they could also "dilute" the abandoned equipment with their own for "calicism"! (In the comments to the videos, some users note that there are "padded" "Russian" equipment without Russian identification marks! Moreover, in "camouflage" or T-64 tanks ...)

    Shouldn't the rembrigades follow?
  28. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 1 March 2022 20: 55
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Two bars with sandbags between them

    Better with fine gravel...
    1. English tarantas
      English tarantas 3 March 2022 20: 04
      -2
      So that it falls on the roof and deprives the tank of its capability?
      1. p0pulivox
        p0pulivox 3 March 2022 20: 10
        -1
        Apparently warheads directly on the roof are better ?! Although, who cares...
        1. English tarantas
          English tarantas 3 March 2022 20: 48
          0
          Do you think I'm the enemy?
          The fact is that if you can roll something on hatches and sights, then you don’t even need a javelin. Two hits from RPG7. As a result, you will not protect the tank from roofers, and make it more vulnerable to weaker weapons. In the end, not everything that arrives from above instantly turns the tank into raw materials for metallurgy, and not everything that arrives from above arrives once, and it does not only arrive from above the same. It’s better to give out more cover in the form of air defense systems and infantry fighting vehicles than to disfigure a tank.
          1. p0pulivox
            p0pulivox 4 March 2022 20: 01
            +1
            Somebody blew us away... winked
            I am not a supporter of amateur performances, it was just a matter of somehow defending myself. Crushed stone is better than sand, that's all...
            1. English tarantas
              English tarantas 4 March 2022 22: 04
              +1
              Somebody blew us away

              Previously, mieus were given either for outright lies, whether because of incompetence, or for a specific lie, and pluses were given for sound thoughts.
              Now there is just a series of opinions on which you can catch more than a dozen opinions. The site turned a long time ago from a really thematic publication, into another Internet puddle with a known substance, bots turn everything into a trash heap.
              (I myself sit because of several authors, really good articles are published periodically, but those are only in this section, and those are rare)
              1. p0pulivox
                p0pulivox 5 March 2022 16: 13
                0
                Totally agree!
            2. English tarantas
              English tarantas 4 March 2022 22: 08
              0
              Crushed stone is better than sand

              Oh, not a fact. It's like throwing canned food into a fire, you really don't want to get a stray stone in your face.
              In general, no matter what they come up with, a visor or something like that is still an extremely mediocre and unambiguously controversial solution, for such purposes it is only necessary to put the KAZ radar and mortar on the back of the tower, pointing upwards, the rest is half measures or not a solution at all.
              1. p0pulivox
                p0pulivox 5 March 2022 16: 15
                0
                I am also a supporter of proven factory solutions. As for amateur performances, during the conflict in the North. In the Caucasus, crushed stone proved to be better than sand ...
  29. Orkraider
    Orkraider 1 March 2022 22: 44
    +2
    Greetings!
    hi
    An excellent article, which cannot be otherwise when it is written by a pro who understands his business.
    I read it with great pleasure.

    Thank you!
  30. Bradley
    Bradley 2 March 2022 00: 36
    +3
    The lattice can save, and saved. This is how the strikers in Afghanistan survived the RPG-7 shots.
    But what kind of grenade is here and how will it arrive. Armor also plays a role.
    Roughly speaking, the task of the grate is to cock a grenade, and the air is already working there, and the COP does not like air.
    The armor of the roof of the tower is stupidly not enough to contain even a defocused COP. It is necessary to increase the size, or put a KAZ, which will shoot down grenades.
    It’s more difficult with a shock core, he doesn’t give a damn about these bars, he will stupidly sweep them away. And NLAW - has an impact core, not a cumulative jet.

    The figure shows the NLAW impact core.


    TOW-2B works the same way


    Lattices on the roofs are a half-measure, which the author had in mind. That's just it's not better than nothing, that's what it is - nothing.
    Lattices work against old grenades, which have a breakdown in the region of 400 mm.
    As an option, move the grating 3-4 meters above the roof of the tank to defocus the COP. The greater the distance, the better.
    But who will do this? None...
    And sandbags and other good stuff will do little. Yes, they will gobble up part of the CS dance, but this is still not enough.
    1. Aleks tv
      2 March 2022 01: 55
      +2
      . The greater the distance, the better.
      But who will do this? None...
      And sandbags and other good stuff will do little. Yes, they will gobble up part of the CS dance, but this is still not enough.

      You have a good comment.
      Nice to read.
      And how I write peas on the wall ...))
      Alex.
      1. Bradley
        Bradley 2 March 2022 10: 17
        +2
        You have a good comment.
        Nice to read.
        And how I write peas on the wall ...))
        Alex.

        Thank you, Alex.
    2. English tarantas
      English tarantas 3 March 2022 20: 02
      0
      Lattices on the roofs - a half measure

      I agree with the author. Good comment. From it there are just a couple of examples of what
      That's just it's not better than nothing, that's what it is - nothing.

      The same TOU, shro, nlav and so on, in addition to the impact core, will also fly under the bars. What is tandem, first the grate will be swept away, but what is not tandem, the grate does not stop, because the engines have long been powerful, and the explosives are cheap. Yes, and the area and location of the visor hint that a lot of things simply will not fly into it.
      It is possible not to attach a visor to the DZ, but it will still need to be made high, large and, accordingly, very uncomfortable, and it will live for 1 hit. The same helfers, as far as I remember, often shoot in pairs, the same PTAB, the same Merlins and the like.
    3. Disant
      Disant 9 March 2022 13: 43
      0
      It’s more difficult with a shock core, he doesn’t give a damn about these bars, he will stupidly sweep them away.

      Lattices on the roofs are a half-measure, which the author had in mind. That's just it's not better than nothing, that's what it is - nothing.

      I do not agree.
      the impact nucleus needs distance to form.
      the height of the impact core detonation above the roof of a CONVENTIONAL TANK, as I see it, is calculated due to the angle of the initial charge funnel inside the rocket, the diameter of the initial funnel and the detonation height set by the electronics above the tank.
      Visor at least will give defocusing during the formation of the impact core on the TANK WITH THE PEOPLE (the visor should be located at distances, where the core is formed), and if it also hits even the old DZ of the tank hung from above, then chance penetration is further reduced.
      a couple of shots, a photo storyboard - and you can say for sure about the FRESH AND FINAL distances at which the YA of this or that ammunition is formed.
      .
      manufacturers of anti-aircraft guns with UYA will have to introduce another lever with a switch - TANK / TANK POOL.
      it's not fast.
      and then it will be possible to raise the visor another half a meter and the manufacturers of ATGMs with UYa will have to introduce another lever with a switch - TANK / TANK PEAK / TANK HIGH PEEL.
      .
      I am an artist, I see so
  31. Ol willy
    Ol willy 2 March 2022 01: 20
    -1
    Will the Arena help instead of a visor?
  32. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 2 March 2022 09: 29
    0
    The point here is not even in the Javelin ATGM and British grenade launchers ....... high saturation of even the 2nd generation ATGM and modern grenade launchers (as it was in the SAR) would bring no less losses. For the same Cornet or fresh TOU 2V with penetration under 1 m behind the DZ, either Abrams or T90 .......
  33. dementor873
    dementor873 2 March 2022 11: 25
    +1
    What about the tanks with the photo, are they all alive?
  34. svoit
    svoit 2 March 2022 12: 45
    +1
    Quote: Sanguinius
    I don't know what's going on

    It's simple, in the first 4 days the supply columns went almost unaccompanied, and were often destroyed, so there was a shortage of fuel, but it was necessary to go forward anyway
  35. Two
    Two 2 March 2022 14: 44
    +1
    Good article! Without bravura and tears. Purely "practical laboratory work" taking into account personal combat experience! Thank you for the opportunity to experience something extraordinary. I had an idea about tanks only as objects of special processing.
  36. English tarantas
    English tarantas 3 March 2022 19: 50
    0
    Judging by the number of comments, only the author will see this one. I will contact you.
    Thanks for the logical continuation of the article, the topic is interesting in itself and interested a lot of people.
    Actually, the experience of application has not changed our point of view. All these visors are not a particularly sensible solution, and even more so in their current form. This craft is the result of the same processes that led to the absence of remote sensing on domestic tanks on a standard basis on the sides at the BO level and on the turret in places with the weakest point - to the left and right of the gun.
    The insanity is getting stronger. Why are these visors where there is no such weapon as the Merlin, why are these visors where there is a javelin, given that their design simply does not correspond to the javelin's flight path and the design of the tank.
    I hope someday someone will write an article summarizing this technical "solution", based on already official reports or eyewitness accounts, and the article will be published not only in official publications
    1. Aleks tv
      4 March 2022 17: 41
      +3
      . I hope someday someone will write an article summarizing this technical "solution", based on already official reports or eyewitness accounts, and the article will be published not only in official publications

      Hello.

      You know, I don’t hope, but .... I’m sure that protection against tandem cumulative "roof-breakers" will be done.
      But here .... WHEN it appears on line tanks ....
      I have nothing to say except mate.
  37. VyacheSeymour
    VyacheSeymour April 4 2022 09: 12
    0
    I disagree with both the author and most of the commentators ...
    1.
    For Bayraktar, the visor on the tower is useless.
    Bayraktar carries guided weapons using laser illumination - it does not have the accuracy to hit the roof of the tower, its target is the entire body of the tank in general. What can somehow protect is DZ and KAZ. That is, its ammunition is almost the same ATGMs.
    2.
    A stretched mesh visor can only protect against loitering ammunition (in fact, it was designed against them, in the light of the fighting in Karabakh). But, there is a big but ... - the "kamikaze" operator is always able to choose the most vulnerable spot, and not necessarily be perverted by driving a projectile into an open hatch. Driving into the hatch is a forced measure of the operator of the control apparatus stuffed with high-explosive fragmentation when a tank-type target is detected ...

    AND MAIN N 3.

    VISOR absolutely useless against Javelin!
    There is a misconception about the paralyzing element here ... Javelin strikes with a forming IMPACT CORE, and this is not a cumulative jet and it does not need a focal length! There are two physically different effects here and the range to the target is not so important! I think the caterpillar and the corners of the visor are not the same thing?
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. kick
    kick April 16 2022 19: 26
    0
    Very knowledgeable author!
  40. Devil13
    Devil13 26 May 2022 12: 42
    0
    The author was right to lead from the front so to speak:
    "Regarding the topic of why there are no tanks with the notorious anti-javelin "visors" at the front:

    “We first welded the body kits (metal grilles for protection against anti-tank missiles) to the tanks, and then they were all removed. Firstly, it is inconvenient: the machine gun does not move, when the antenna closes on the grate, the radio station burns out, the connection disappears. And if there is some kind of fire, it will be simply unrealistic to get out of the tank. Because when you get up to your full height, you rest. So they were all taken down and thrown out."

    From an interview with tanker Captain Alexei Ukhachev to the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper.
  41. 3danimal
    3danimal 12 June 2022 11: 04
    0
    In war you can't talk bad about your soldiers. They need to be supported even if they are wrong.

    Does the author consider this saying to be an absolute?
    Willy Brandt (future German Chancellor) did not follow this wisdom. And he was even forced to flee from Nazi Germany because of his views.
    But who was the big enemy of the Germans: he, who wanted to stop the murderous (for his people as well) war, or Adolf, who unleashed a war on 2 fronts with countries that accounted for most of the world's GDP and industrial production and easily threw new millions of Germans into her fire?
    History has given a well-known answer. Adolf died at the end of April 1945, taking millions of people with him, and Brand, as chancellor, made Germany 3 (now 4) the economy of the world.
  42. 3danimal
    3danimal 12 June 2022 11: 14
    0
    I confess, I thought that the prospect of large losses from the presence, including modern "roof-breakers", would prevent the invasion ..
    I forgot an important point: after all, there are no children in the tanks of those who made a fatal decision (the consequences of which are not completely predictable, and those that are visible only bring problems and hardships for us), and “there is nothing to worry about.” These are not our own people, “the people are our oil” (in the fire of restoring the territories of the former empire).
    Medals, some money for relatives, to classify losses so that the public is less worried. Strongly stubborn relatives of the victims can be threatened with an article. True, for the first time in a very long time, so many fresh graves of the military appeared, well, it doesn’t happen to anyone.
    Women give birth, there are a lot of tanks in stock. Even if the T-62.