Military Review

In China, a thousand military factories will be privatized; development of the Chinese defense industry leads to a sharp decrease in imports of weapons

51
In China, a thousand military factories will be privatized; development of the Chinese defense industry leads to a sharp decrease in imports of weaponsUntil recently, the military potential of the People’s Liberation Army of China (PLA) consisted of models of weapons 50-s. In the 90-s of the XX century, China began to actively increase its combat power, purchasing Russian military equipment. In 20 years, the government managed to carry out an almost complete rearmament of the army. The next step in the reform was the demonopolization of the Chinese defense-industrial complex (DIC). The He Xun information portal recently reported this with reference to a report from the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

As noted in the report of the Academy, experts from several countries are concerned about the rapid growth of defense spending by the PRC. Financial investments allowed to arm the Chinese army with high-tech types weapons, reduced China's dependence on the supply of Russian weapons. In the 90 of the last century, the Chinese government launched the process of technical re-equipment of the domestic defense industry. This led to an increase in the output of Chinese military equipment, ITAR-TASS reports the message of the Chinese media.

In July of this year, Beijing announced the start of attracting investment in the country's defense industry. The new resolution stipulates that private investors and state-owned enterprises working in the defense sector will have equal opportunities in matters relating to licensing and taxes. At the same time, it is stipulated that only investors from mainland China can get access to this sector. The statement notes that investors can take part in the development and production of armaments, as well as in the restructuring of state defense enterprises.

The new decree is aimed at increasing competition in this sector, and for some projects there will be open tenders in the future. To date, private investors have participated only in the supply of components and some materials for the defense industry, but they have not been involved in large projects.

As noted in the documents of the Shanghai and Shenzhen stock exchanges, the subsidiary companies of military contractors that have undergone the primary placement procedure (IPO) intend to buy back part of the assets in state-owned parent companies for over 20 billion yuan (3,15 billion dollars). Due to future deals, the assets of subsidiaries will increase by about 100 percent, the report says. Government actions to privatize 1 thousand military factories will contribute to the initiated process of demonopolization of the country's defense industry.

China's long-term plans include the transformation of China’s State Shipbuilding Corporation, CSSC, China Corporation aviation the AVIC industry and CASIC's Aerospace and Industrial Corporation of China, an arms supplier comparable in size to the American Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman. In particular, AVIC intends to increase sales of products by 4 times - from 250 billion yuan (39,7 billion dollars) in 2011 to 1 trillion yuan (158,6 billion dollars) in 2020. In the coming years, about 80 percent. assets of these corporations will be placed on stock exchanges of the country.

According to the report, the capitalization of 10 of the largest military corporations in China is now 2 trillion yuan (317,2 billion dollars). The corporation-owned 70 subsidiaries are listed on the stock exchanges, among them 40 enterprises are defense. The total volume of these 70 companies is 25 percent. all assets of the aforementioned 10 corporations.

The rapid development of the potential of the Chinese defense industry has led to a gradual decrease in arms imports. According to the SIPRI Stockholm World Research Institute (SIPRI), during the 2007-2011 period. Chinese arms imports fell by 58 percent. Over the years, in terms of purchases of military equipment, China descended from leading positions in 2006 to 4 in 2011.

In the past few years, China has begun to increase research on the creation of modern missiles. Both ballistic and winged carriers are being created, as well as mobile installations for launching nuclear charges.

At the same time, despite significant progress, military experts note China’s lag behind the leading powers in a number of technologies. For this reason, Su-27 fighters, modern cruisers and Russian-made submarines are still one of the key articles of Chinese imports, summarized in the Academy's report.
Originator:
http://www.arms-tass.su
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  1. spender
    spender 24 September 2012 16: 47
    +8
    That's where Rogozin needs to be sent in order to learn from winked And we are going our own way, rake-strewn recourse
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 24 September 2012 16: 55
      +3
      Well done
      in the 90s in the early 2000s they bought all the technologies, raised their VPK
      and now make up serious competition in the market of 3 countries

      called century live century study, even refractory bricks are already bought there


      In the photo-Chinese BMP (copy of BMP-3), the Bakhcha complex is fully mastered in China

      Even without melon, base copy BMP-3

      At the same time, the lineup is a more thoughtful landing compartment at the back
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 24 September 2012 17: 26
        +3
        Quote: Rustam
        Even without melon, base copy BMP-3

        At the same time, the lineup is a more thoughtful landing compartment at the back


        Fucking copy. The landing requires twice as much time to leave the car.
        1. Rustam
          Rustam 24 September 2012 17: 45
          +2
          Yes, the question is not in the copy. This is an example, the question is that they master the technologies obtained and produce them independently.

          and do not engage in screwdriver assembly, is it really not clear
          he shows me that our door opens differently (I'm just in touch)

          In the photo, the Chinese analogue of our Su-30mk2-fully assemble in China
          a gap in the engines, they still drill with us, but within 3 years it will be solved
          1. vorobey
            vorobey 24 September 2012 17: 54
            +4
            Well, Rustam, long live srach?
            Quote: Rustam
            At the same time, the lineup is a more thoughtful landing compartment at the back


            Your words? Where else?

            Quote: Rustam
            he shows me that our door opens differently (I'm just in touch)


            It would be a sin not to improve the copy, although at the expense of size. get out of touch. When production is in shit and everyone wants only to grab a piece from the country, it is necessary to start with a screwdriver assembly. The Chinese are well done, of course, but we will all continue to yell and scream, or from the screwdriver assembly we will begin to restore at first. The copy was never better than the original.
            1. Rustam
              Rustam 24 September 2012 18: 20
              +1
              in the sense all prosrali-half just losing specialists
              Well, if you are satisfied with the screwdriver assembly-flag in hand

              China is buying up fully production lines from all the documentation, we are not yet
              1. vorobey
                vorobey 24 September 2012 18: 41
                +3
                Quote: Rustam
                Well, if you are satisfied with the screwdriver assembly-flag in hand

                Yes, we speak different languages. Yes prosrali having lost specialists, in what years? And let’s hammer everything and we won’t do anything.

                They let us close to Opel? threw scared. This is one example of access to technology - not for free.


                Quote: Rustam
                China is buying up fully production lines from all the documentation, we are not yet

                Give examples of what kind of production lines the Chinese are buying. Have you heard anything about the division of labor? So here is China that Taiwan is a bunch of small industries sharpened in one or two operations (exaggerated), one stamps the washers, the second cuts the bolts. the third cuts nuts, the fourth stupidly drives it collects it all and takes it to the fifth one which screws these bolts and nuts into the cast billet produced by the sixth.
                1. Rustam
                  Rustam 24 September 2012 18: 50
                  0
                  example - easy assembly line a320 and train production line (citizen)
                  military-fully all the technical documentation and production of the yak-130 (schA produce l-15) mastered the production of melon towers

                  in the USSR, special divisions of the GRU and the KGB bought technologies, technical documentation, samples of both military and civilian
                  in the 30s, they completely bought the production lines of leading US firms
                  therefore, the lag of the USSR at the beginning of 90 in technology was no more than 5 years from the west

                  for some positions, how many years so for 20
                  1. vorobey
                    vorobey 24 September 2012 18: 57
                    +3
                    Quote: Rustam
                    The lag of the USSR at the beginning of 90 in technology was no more than 5 years from the West


                    And in 90, we wanted freedom and democracy. They deserve it.

                    Do you know that
                    Quote: Rustam
                    all technical documentation and production of the yak-130 (shcha produce l-15

                    Yak 130 was developed jointly with Italians who then simply threw ours and in order to complete the project, I suppose and shared with the Chinese. By the way, look at the Italian analogue copy of the Yak 130. There are no pictures, but I'll look for them on the network.
                    1. Rustam
                      Rustam 24 September 2012 19: 18
                      0
                      any whim please -Italian m-346
                      the main thing we understand is that we will not go far with a screwdriver assembly
                      already have an understanding
                      I gave an example of the USSR, leaving only 5 years
                      and so I press your friendly hand-beautifully and dignifiedly expressed their opinion on this issue smile
            2. Rustam
              Rustam 24 September 2012 19: 09
              +1
              Well, Rustam, long live srach?
              _______
              you know I for a constructive dialogue is my position winked
              1. vorobey
                vorobey 24 September 2012 19: 23
                +2
                Quote: Rustam
                Well, Rustam, long live srach?
                _______
                you know I for a constructive dialogue is my position


                This is me for the seed. here, after all, as the main thing is to get into a fight, and there we will already see who is friend and who is enemy. we broke quickly quickly restore everything for a long time.
                shake your hand.

                http://www.compromat.ru/page_10884.htm здесь история Як 130
                1. Rustam
                  Rustam 24 September 2012 19: 28
                  0
                  it was nice to talk, that's why I respect this site, but there are children winked
      2. beech
        beech 24 September 2012 21: 22
        0
        It's a shame for the power!
    2. 11 black
      11 black 24 September 2012 17: 59
      0
      it is better to send Serdyukov there - they will immediately "reform" their army in the direction we need, even if it brings real benefits ...
      1. GP
        GP 24 September 2012 18: 06
        +1
        Quote: 11 black
        send Serdyukov there


        Better than Chubais. More reliable wink

        Ankdot from the personal site of Chubais:

        1993, Chubais leads the voucher privatization project.
        Result: the financial crisis in Russia.
        1998, Chubais takes on a new project - RAO UES. Result: in Russia
        financial crisis.
        2008, Chubais launches a new project - "Nanotechnology". Result: in
        Russian financial crisis.

        …. from the characteristics of A. Chubais: "Always achieves a stable
        result ".

        http://chubais.ru/category/fun/
    3. v53993
      v53993 24 September 2012 18: 23
      +2
      Yes, we don’t go our own way, unfortunately. We walked under I.V. Stalin.
  2. strannik595
    strannik595 24 September 2012 16: 52
    +3
    ne in a childish Chinese harness ...... this is not 50 Mongolian T-72
  3. andrei332809
    andrei332809 24 September 2012 16: 54
    +1
    and our bitter experience taught them nothing? although they’re unlikely to be left unattended with private owners, you won’t turn too much
  4. ShturmKGB
    ShturmKGB 24 September 2012 16: 58
    +6
    In China, there are clearly set goals, there is a politically and ideologically homogeneous society accustomed to order and cheap labor ... In these conditions, it is easier to develop. than in a country where the situation is similar to Krylov's fable, where the swan, cancer and pike are pulled in different directions ...
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 24 September 2012 17: 05
      +1
      ShturmKGB
      where the swan, cancer and pike are pulled in different directions

      once a swan was going to drag a pike back and forth.
      like a swan did not try, cancer pike was not given
    2. v53993
      v53993 24 September 2012 20: 00
      +2
      And they don’t have Chubais, which means that everything will work out.
  5. vorobey
    vorobey 24 September 2012 17: 12
    +3
    The Chinese people realized that you can’t get far at Xerox. Now they are inviting investors. They already understood that no one will share technologies with them, and the cheap rabsil comes to an end. the Chinese turned out to be the same people as everyone and do not agree for a bowl of rice to stoop.
    1. snek
      snek 24 September 2012 17: 21
      +3
      Quote: vorobey
      Already realized that no one will share technology with them,

      Nobody has ever shared technology. They (technologies) either bought them or obtained them by reverse engineering or, as it were to put it mildly, expropriated them.
      Quote: vorobey
      Yes, and cheap rabsila ends

      Ento you in the next article learned that in China, cheap labor ends? They still have hundreds of millions of pennies living.
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 24 September 2012 17: 43
        +2
        Quote: snek
        Nobody has ever shared technology. They (technologies) either bought them or obtained by reverse engineering or, as it were to put it mildly, expropriated

        snek, many people ask me why I'm barynichayus and not open my production. (I have probably heard a hobby) photos from recent works.
        I explain. I’m self-taught and I know that I don’t have much, I still don’t know how to teach me for free, and just like that nobody will let me in (there is such a tendency among ours), but like a huckster I have free entrance to any workshop and to any woodworking enterprise. And there it’s all according to his abilities, where he talked, where he spied, where he counted, etc. This is just the Chinese version, as you say, with the only difference that I always try not to simplify, but to maximally adapt the equipment that I have to fit my capabilities.

        And give me an investor and the result, I think, will be clear.

        You are not right that nobody shared technologies. Transferring production to China, some manufacturers already knowingly transferred technology.
        But not everything, as you have noticed, is China's discord. Why are German binniats nevertheless different from Chinese ones. what kind of capitalist will invest in production that will produce poop. He will inevitably have to improve the quality by changing those processes and the technology itself. From quantity, China makes a breakthrough to quality.
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 24 September 2012 18: 08
          +3
          Quote: snek
          They still have hundreds of millions of pennies living

          Quote: snek
          Ento you in the next article learned that in China, cheap labor ends?


          calculate the ratio of the population of retirement age to working age, take into account qualifications and answer how many technologically poor people there are who are simply not able to perform highly paid work. Read about the program for returning specialists to their homeland from the Chinese and ask how much they will work at home. Having worked abroad and having access to technical processes, the Chinese are aiming to kill two birds with one stone. and specialists to return home and get technological innovations for free. And here you are right. This is the right way. Ours also has such a program. only for some reason they are silent about her. Ah yes it's ours and not the Chinese. This is only the Chinese well done.
          1. snek
            snek 24 September 2012 18: 17
            +1
            Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.

            China invests a lot of money in the education of the population (this does not include the cost of science).
            Quote: vorobey
            Ours also has such a program. only for some reason they are silent about her. Ah yes it's ours and not the Chinese. This is only the Chinese well done.

            Comparing us and the Chinese in terms of investments in education and its importance is generally a bad job. Sorry, I will quote my own comment from another thread on this topic:
            But I know quite well about the situation in our education (although I teach only from time to time, there are a lot of acquaintances in this area). And education is our future. And, to tell the truth, as it is, we have no future. If we talk about school, then the average age of our teachers is 52 years (this is taking into account the physical education teachers, who, as a rule, are much younger). Yes, there are good young teachers and talented students, but they are a minority. Parents are outraged that their children are overloaded with homework, demand to introduce the basics of Orthodoxy (even knowing that the clock will go to it from Russian language and mathematics), some (and far from a few) openly say that they do not need education - a diploma they will buy and attach the child (there are connections). And all this is already evident in the results. There is such a thing "International Program for the Assessment of Educational Achievements of Students" - one can argue for a long time about its pros and cons, but today there is no more objective assessment of the quality of students' knowledge in different countries. So in 2009, in the field of mathematics, our students took 38th place (1st China), in the field of natural sciences, ours - 39 (1st China), in the literacy section: ours - 42 (1st China), and the assessment itself was not conducted in China and not by the Chinese (before, their places were lower, but they pulled up). Friends went to exchange experience to see Chinese schools - the teacher there for the students is God. Parents are ready to put everything in order for the education of their children (real, and not just buy a diploma). And now let's count how many of them and how many of us. And in 10-20 years ours will come with purchased diplomas (although there are enough of them now and the Chinese will come) ...
            1. vorobey
              vorobey 24 September 2012 18: 31
              +1
              Quote: snek
              Comparing us and the Chinese in terms of investments in education and its importance is generally a bad job. Sorry, I will quote my own comment from another thread on this topic.


              Quote: snek
              Parents are indignant that their children are too busy with homework, demanding to introduce the basics of Orthodoxy (even knowing that the clock will be spent on it from Russian language and mathematics), some (and far from few) openly say that they do not need education - a diploma they will buy and attach a child (there are connections).


              so can we start with ourselves? Snek but you are so sorry sometimes you are talking nonsense without hesitation.
              Quote: snek
              There is such a thing "International Program for the Assessment of Educational Achievements of Students" - one can argue for a long time about its pros and cons, but today there is no more objective assessment of the quality of students' knowledge in different countries. So in 2009, in the field of mathematics, our students took 38th place (1st China), in the field of natural sciences, ours - 39 (1st China), in the literacy section: ours - 42 (1st China), and the assessment itself was not conducted in China and not by the Chinese (before, their places were lower, but they pulled up).


              only here at the international Olympiads, our every now and then blkschtut, although you probably just buy again. I'm not saying that all is well cheers and approvals.
              Education is a sore subject. but
              where is the brain of children and their parents who are stupidly going to study economists, managers, etc. if work for them only in clothing markets is enough.
              1. snek
                snek 24 September 2012 19: 42
                0
                Quote: vorobey
                only here at the international Olympiads, our every now and then blkschtut, although you probably just buy again.

                No, they don’t buy, they just train the children (in fairness it should be noted that not only here, but also in China). Only these victories are nothing, that is, nothing at all, they say about the quality of education in the country. The permanent winners of international school olympiads over the past 10 years are China, Russia and the United States (somewhere in that order if we take mathematics, physics and chemistry). Something I do not see on this list of Germany, Finland, South Korea and Japan, where school education is at such a level that it becomes scary.
                You see, in China itself (as well as in a number of other Asian countries) education is a fundamental value. Comparison: in Confucianism, knowledge is the good that everyone should strive for, in Christianity (including Orthodoxy) knowledge is evil (after all, the fruit from the tree of knowledge became the original sin).
                Quote: vorobey
                When the brain is in children and their parents who are stupidly looking to study at economists, managers, etc. if work for them only in clothing markets is enough.

                I knew one girl (now studying in the third year of a meduniver) who, having arrived on summer vacation, was happy to tell former teachers about the fact that in the human body there are such strings along which the signals go (nerves) and the bobbins on which everything rests (bones ) Her parents bought a place in this meduniver, they will buy her all the exams and they will arrange her for a job. And it remains only to pray to God (in which I do not believe) that she will end up in some beauty salon, where life will not depend on her decisions. This is not the norm yet, but it’s not something out of the ordinary.
                Do you know what functional illiteracy is? There are many definitions, but roughly speaking, this is when a person can technically read, but cannot get information from what he read. For some time I was generally skeptical about this until I saw how, in front of my eyes, an eighth-grader (from a regular school and not a poor student) read one small paragraph three times in a row and could not tell what he was about. A frightening sight I must say. How many such children are is not clear. According to friends who work as teachers in Russian. language and literature: about 20-30 percent (depending on the class). So education is not just a "sore subject", it is a subject of death.
                1. vorobey
                  vorobey 24 September 2012 19: 59
                  +2
                  Quote: snek
                  So you know what functional illiteracy is? There are many definitions, but roughly speaking, this is when a person is technically able to read, but cannot get information from what he has read.


                  And you do not know what the basics are laid by parents? I came across this with my child. noticed on time. after stealing his smartphone, password protected both computers in the house, and stupidly sat down for books and we began to discuss them, the child began a positive shift. Who will teach him if the neighbor on the desk is also dug into his phone or computer. My teachers now write to me explaining why during the lessons the child underwent a medical examination or was late for a lesson (diary entry) because he wore cabinets. I really give a tooth. and I collect them and when it’s boiling, I’ll make a spacing. I’m not a scandalous type, very patient and tolerant of everything, but I don’t need to be angry. We need to do more ourselves and not wait for the good uncle of the wizard, otherwise it will work out - Suddenly a bearing flew in a blue helicopter.

                  For example, I, too, would give my child better than the other - why the heck should I raise my competitor. The law of capitalism. call me.
                  1. vorobey
                    vorobey 24 September 2012 20: 05
                    +2
                    Sneek, I say goodbye, I went to pick up the children from the training, I read it tomorrow.
                    1. snek
                      snek 24 September 2012 20: 14
                      +1
                      Quote: vorobey
                      Sneek, I say goodbye, I went to pick up the children from the training, I read it tomorrow.

                      Oh, it’s just the time for me too. Until we meet again in the fields of verbal battles)
                  2. snek
                    snek 24 September 2012 20: 07
                    0
                    Quote: vorobey
                    And you do not know what the basics are laid by parents?

                    I know. And this is the problem. I myself wrote above:
                    Quote: snek
                    Parents are indignant that their children are too busy with homework, demanding to introduce the basics of Orthodoxy (even knowing that the clock will be spent on it from Russian language and mathematics), some (and far from few) openly say that they do not need education - a diploma they will buy and attach a child (there are connections). And all this is already showing up on the results.

                    Quote: vorobey
                    For example, I, too, would give my child better than the other - why the heck should I raise my competitor. The law of capitalism. call me.

                    I don’t worry about my own in this regard either (for several generations the family has clear traditions in terms of what level of education children are). Only here there is one small detail. Not only our children will compete with other representatives of the new generation of Russia for jobs. Countries will compete among themselves. China already has a tenfold advantage in terms of population. If we lose to them also in quality, then our country will safely leave for the sidelines (or, generally, a dump) of history.
                    1. vorobey
                      vorobey 24 September 2012 20: 12
                      +2
                      Snack it's all clear. only China developed and filled the treasury when Russia had stolen the treasury, when Russia waged war in the Caucasus, when miners went with helmets to the white house. I remember these times well, from which profits they could buy stealing technology and specialists if, on the contrary, they were dumping in search of bread from the country. You just need to soberly evaluate everything and weigh it. We waved our sabers. but in the end, who are we fighting with shade or with windmills?

                      So far everyone has left.
    2. patsantre
      patsantre 24 September 2012 17: 22
      +2
      And then they understood, didn’t understand? Any fool can understand it, their development simply became enough not to thoughtlessly copy and steal, but to create something of their own. And the fact that only such a path has prospects is not a fortuneteller go.
  6. anfreezer
    anfreezer 24 September 2012 17: 20
    +2
    China is reducing arms imports, we are increasing .... what
  7. Fox
    Fox 24 September 2012 17: 32
    0
    they’ll do it like in Russia ... and China’s defense industry will not have it. Only Chinese clones of bears, makarovs, rogosins will be ...
  8. snek
    snek 24 September 2012 17: 38
    +1
    in the period 2007-2011 Chinese arms imports down 58 percent Over the years, in terms of the volume of purchases of military equipment, China has fallen from a leading position in 2006 to 4th place in 2011.

    In the meantime, China is rapidly becoming an arms exporter:
    TSAMTO, August 2. According to the results of 2012, China in the ranking of the world's largest arms exporters for the first time can rise to 8th place. This is the most significant movement in the top ten of the world's leading arms exporters.
    The position in the ranking of the top ten countries is quite stable, movements from year to year in that other direction are very rare and make up no more than 1 position. China in this regard, according to the predicted results in 2012, will break this tradition by moving in the ranking immediately to 2 positions - from 10 to 8 place, bypassing Sweden and Spain.

    http://vpk.name/news/73117_kitai_v_reitinge_krupneishih_mirovyih_eksporterov_voo
    ruzhenii_po_itogam_2012_goda_vpervyie_mozhet_podnyatsya_na_8_mesto.html
  9. vladimir64ss
    vladimir64ss 24 September 2012 17: 44
    0
    Well, the Chinese themselves have someone to rejoice for, and we scratch the back of the head.
  10. Uncle
    Uncle 24 September 2012 18: 05
    0
    I think that not everything is so rosy in China, problems with Tibet, Uighurs, a lot that we don’t know. China may well explode from internal contradictions. Do not forget that the Chinese live under the communist heel, such dictatorships are not eternal, an example of the USSR.
  11. jagdpanzer
    jagdpanzer 24 September 2012 18: 11
    0
    apparently technologies were pumped and how the bug fell off laughing
  12. Heinrich ruppert
    Heinrich ruppert 24 September 2012 18: 16
    +4
    I had a chance to shoot with the Chinese TT. It was charged two mogazin. Distance to the target 25m. So the 12th bullet did not reach the target. What will they do request
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 24 September 2012 18: 48
      +2
      Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
      What will they do


      Henry welcome, Chinese machine tools are sold in Germany and in the states. In Germany, the machine comes with a 5-year warranty and we have 2 years. mentality probably. Although the bearings. original German shafts stands. Even knives for reysmusy Germany. Before high technology in processing and mechanical engineering, China still needs to sweat.
      1. Heinrich ruppert
        Heinrich ruppert 24 September 2012 19: 03
        +2
        Greetings to Alexander. I know
        Quote: vorobey
        In Germany, the machine comes with a 5-year warranty and we have 2 years. mentality probably.

        Right 100% minlet. There is a very good friend in the same club who takes pictures once a month playing cards (limited gang). His company makes stamps. An engineer in Germany has machine tools in China, after the stamp comes his month they finish working on the spot and then give a guarantee.
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 24 September 2012 19: 17
          +3
          KNUTH machines real German machines were until production in China was established. and take a stupid change house and a small series of Kraton, Corvette twins from one Chinese factory wore a pedigree to raise it is an American JET or how it is sold in the states POWERMATIC Quite different technologies and quality.
          1. Heinrich ruppert
            Heinrich ruppert 24 September 2012 19: 27
            +2
            That is how it is. For another project, I select equipment for wood processing. And now I’m looking for a B / Y year of release, the end of the 70s. There was still real German quality
            1. vorobey
              vorobey 24 September 2012 19: 30
              +2
              Heinrich, well, the Weinig of the seventies, at his bargain price, can give such a head start to any Chinese or Taiwanese.

              I saw the (Italian) Primultini of the late 70s. The man never wanted to change this sawmill.
              1. Heinrich ruppert
                Heinrich ruppert 24 September 2012 19: 33
                +2
                Sasha, as always, to the point of vining and cupfermule is the direction that I need
                1. vorobey
                  vorobey 24 September 2012 19: 44
                  +1
                  The Poles and Czechs have a lot of them, two years ago I was looking for 5 spindle vining. True, the condition is not so hot, but it's probably easier for you to take the scrap at the price and restore it already in Germany. It is unrealistic here, since spare parts for vanings of these years are cheaper to pour from gold. I shake my hand, good luck.
                  1. v53993
                    v53993 24 September 2012 20: 03
                    +2
                    What are you guys talking about? You need a site to Serdyukov. He is our main stool.
                    1. Heinrich ruppert
                      Heinrich ruppert 24 September 2012 20: 06
                      +1
                      Quote: v53993
                      What are you guys talking about? You need a site to Serdyukov.

                      What can you do about a stool is a contagious matter. I'm sorry. request laughing
                      1. v53993
                        v53993 24 September 2012 20: 11
                        0
                        Yes, I'm not talking about that. Stools are also needed, but not here.
                      2. Heinrich ruppert
                        Heinrich ruppert 24 September 2012 20: 15
                        +1
                        Spender is trying to create a page of slogans. And we’ll ok
                    2. vorobey
                      vorobey 24 September 2012 20: 07
                      +1
                      Quote: v53993
                      Yes, we do not go our own way


                      Would you go your own way tovarisch.
                      1. v53993
                        v53993 24 September 2012 20: 09
                        0
                        And we will go our own way, only now we will clear the road.
                      2. vorobey
                        vorobey 24 September 2012 20: 14
                        +1
                        Quote: v53993
                        only here we clear the road

                        borrow a shovel?
                      3. v53993
                        v53993 24 September 2012 20: 22
                        +1
                        Enough is enough.
  13. Arsen
    Arsen 24 September 2012 19: 44
    0
    Quote: Rustam
    even refractory bricks are already bought there

    And they crumble.
  14. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 24 September 2012 19: 51
    +2
    hmm, overslept the ussr and the states of the red dragon ...
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 24 September 2012 20: 02
      +4
      For each red dragon we find our red cock.
  15. bubla5
    bubla5 24 September 2012 20: 17
    +2
    Do not argue, but the Chinese at this pace still do not catch up with quality, so they need to follow the rule either little, but withstanding technology and expensive, or spitting a lot on everything, but cheap, the latter is still preferable to them
    1. v53993
      v53993 24 September 2012 20: 42
      0
      The Chinese are pragmatists. There is no way to realize quality, they deal with quantity, but they do not stomp on the spot.
  16. kronos.pt
    kronos.pt 24 September 2012 21: 05
    +2
    And you didn’t think that it would be more profitable for them to produce a product of very average quality, so that we could quickly buy the same rubbish again. In the light of the crisis, when people can not afford to buy a good thing, we fall into a vicious circle.
    1. v53993
      v53993 24 September 2012 21: 45
      -1
      The fact that we, in the light of the crisis, cannot buy ourselves a solid thing, not China's fault, but those who organized this crisis for us.
      1. kronos.pt
        kronos.pt 24 September 2012 21: 57
        0
        I will not argue on this slippery topic, but we, and not only the Slavs, are buying up their consumer goods, and thereby investing in the Chinese economy! From the beginning, without even thinking, but then, when it’s too late, we begin to understand that buying Chinese, we thereby ruin our own manufacturer.
  17. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 24 September 2012 22: 20
    +1
    The Chinese government wants to absolve itself of responsibility for theft and introduction of modern technologies. "The East is a delicate matter."
  18. kronos.pt
    kronos.pt 24 September 2012 22: 27
    0
    This is where the state’s policy in defense of the manufacturer should manifest itself and little depends on us. At the helm should be not only a competent, well-informed person, but also a patriot of his homeland. And this is a problem not only in Russia, but also in many countries of Europe.
  19. gregor6549
    gregor6549 25 September 2012 07: 04
    +2
    China, in my opinion, found a middle ground for itself between what should be done and what the state is responsible for and what it should do and what the private trader is responsible for. Distracting from the military-industrial complex, I will give, for illustration, an example from the field of road construction in China. 10 years ago, the road network of China did not differ much in quality from the road network of the European part of Russia. What is the Chinese government doing? It forcibly voluntarily surrenders road sections to private owners in the long-term, and allows them to charge users (drivers) of tolls on these sections established again by the state, which is the same for each category of roads. Further, the private trader has nothing to do but invest substantial money in his plot so that drivers drive on it and pay, rather than bypassing for free. As a result, in just 10 years, China has acquired such roads that European roads rest. And road owners also pay a sickly tax to the treasury from their profits. Something similar is supposed to be done with the privatization of the military industry. Those. the factory will be yours for a certain time, but you will do on it what we ask you, moreover, in the right quantity, and at a reasonable price for such products. But you will not, please, against the wall ... with production indicators and explain why they are so frail. Explain - live, no ... sorry dear, there are no irreplaceable shots in China, and therefore goodbye, and the guard was tired of aiming request