Military Review

The American publication explained the purchase by Indonesia five times more expensive F-15 instead of Russian Su-35

215

The Indonesian Air Force preferred American F-15 fighters to Russian Su-35s, on February 11, Jakarta signed a contract for the purchase of 36 US-made heavy fighters. As Military Watch writes, the choice of the F-15 over the Su-35 is by no means due to the combat qualities of American fighters.


The $13,9 billion contract for 36 F-15 fighter jets puts Indonesia among the seven countries that have already purchased the fighter, apart from the US of course. The Indonesian Air Force has been operating both light and heavy fighters for a long time, with heavy Su-27s and Su-30s, supplemented by light F-16s, at the heart of its air fleet.

It would seem that it is more profitable for Jakarta to purchase Russian Su-35 fighters, which are a further development of the same Su-27 and Su-30, especially since the Russian Su-35 and the American F-15 in the modern configuration are almost equal in strength. According to the newspaper, the new version of the F-15EX has avionics, sensors and data links equal to or even superior to the Su-35. At the same time, the Russian fighter has more powerful engines with thrust vector control, more long-range weapons and triple radars capable of detecting even stealth fighters. In the event of a mid-air collision, the Russian Su-35 will have a slight advantage over the F-15EX.

The fact that the Indonesian Air Force has the technical capabilities to maintain the Su-35 also spoke in favor of the Russian fighter, since they operated the Su-27 and Su-30 for a long time. In addition, the difference in the cost of aircraft also speaks in favor of the Russian fighter. If the American F-15 will cost Indonesia $386 million, then the Russian F-78 will cost only $14 million and Jakarta could buy a much larger number of aircraft for almost $15 billion. Also, Russia did not limit the use of its fighters, while the United States set certain operating conditions for the F-XNUMX.

However, despite all the benefits from the deal with Russia for the purchase of the Su-35, Indonesia still chose the "five times more expensive" American F-15 fighter. And the reason for this was Washington's economic pressure on Jakarta.

(...) comparing the costs of acquiring two fighters is an important example (...) of the power the United States has in threatening economic sanctions to effectively force Indonesia to abandon the Su-35 in favor of a largely equivalent fighter at five times the price

- sums up the publication.
215 comments
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  1. Thrifty
    Thrifty 13 February 2022 10: 18
    +29
    Indonesia did not choose anything, the Yankees imposed their planes on it with the threat of sanctions. Now they will have to find these 14 billion dollars, because the Yankees can sell a couple of used bolts to the Indonesians for palm oil.
    1. The popuas
      The popuas 13 February 2022 10: 23
      +12
      This is written in the article request
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 13 February 2022 10: 29
        +12
        The point is that only the Indians could pull the Yankees when they bought the C400 from us. The rest are afraid for their money in the banks of the USA and Europe, they will easily take it away !! am That's all "fair competition" !!!
        1. Seryoga64
          Seryoga64 13 February 2022 10: 49
          +5
          Quote: Thrifty
          the point is that only the Indians could pull the Yankees when they bought the C400 from us.

          And the Turks?
          Allies after all
          1. Fedor M
            Fedor M 13 February 2022 20: 04
            +4
            And what about the Turks?! After acquiring the 400s, they were taken out of the F35 program
            1. Seryoga64
              Seryoga64 14 February 2022 08: 05
              +1
              Quote: Fedor M
              After acquiring the 400s, they were taken out of the F35 program

              Got it.
              They are still crying bitterly
              1. Fedor M
                Fedor M 14 February 2022 18: 09
                +1
                Maybe they cry, but they have their own cockroaches
        2. 3danimal
          3danimal 13 February 2022 11: 09
          +2
          The rest are afraid for their money in the banks of the USA and Europe, they will easily take it away

          Will they take it away from whom, to India? Can you give examples?
          The second point: why do the "others" keep their money in dangerous European and American banks, and not in Russian, Turkish ones?
          1. smart fellow
            smart fellow 13 February 2022 15: 50
            +8
            For the same reason why people buy US debt.
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal 13 February 2022 17: 02
              +1
              Because they always paid on debt obligations, never defaulted request
              1. smart fellow
                smart fellow 13 February 2022 18: 14
                +4
                Can it be better to compare the yield on US debt and commercial banks?
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal 13 February 2022 18: 49
                  -4
                  This is a matter of investment security.
                  Commercial banks paying high interest less reliable than US government bonds (the most reliable). Something like this.
                  Reminds me of "The Lannisters always pay." smile
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 13 February 2022 23: 10
                    +20
                    Quote: 3danimal
                    US government bonds (the most reliable)

                    laughing You tell Iran this.
                    Venezuela.
                    Germany.
                    And to everyone who has been entrusted by the US Federal Reserve with their gold for safekeeping. bully
                    Is it really reliable?
                    Germany even SHOW (!!!) their gold was refused. laughing
                    Gentlemen are told to take their word for it. bully
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal 14 February 2022 11: 33
                      -13
                      You tell Iran this.
                      Venezuela

                      An absolute minority, in the list of rogue countries.
                      And Iran has also been captured by religious extremists for the last 40+ years.
                      Germany

                      ??
                      It was not about gold, but about government bonds, which are highly liquid and which always pay.
                      Germany even SHOW (!!!) their gold was refused

                      Can you provide links?
                      Have Germany's assets been frozen?
                      IMHO, gold has long ceased to function as an equivalent of money (it simply will not be enough, given the gigantic volume of goods and services in the world).
                      1. bayard
                        bayard 14 February 2022 22: 02
                        +3
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        An absolute minority, in the list of rogue countries.

                        So what kind of reliability and "profitability" lol deposits can we talk if, at the whim of these bankers, entire states and peoples are doomed to lack of money and poverty?
                        THIS IS THEFT. yes
                        Banal stupid (!!!) STEALING. bully
                        Hundreds of billions of dollars stolen from RICH oil producing countries. wink . Such as Iran , Libya , Venezuela , Iraq . The money is just stolen.
                        Just stolen.
                        And the "most reliable in the world" (according to your version) bankers of the US Federal Reserve stole them.
                        They LOVE to steal.

                        Or maybe they give a profitable interest on the deposit?
                        With such risks and your own reputation? wink
                        Not !
                        They give the LOWEST percentage possible. bully
                        but countries and peoples bring their money there (!!), you say. smile
                        And you will be right - they really carry them. yes
                        But is it of your own free will?
                        Do they have nowhere to invest such colossal sums??
                        Here China and Japan have sterilized (approximately) 1,2 trillion there.
                        JAPAN!!! Which has its own external debt of several full GDP of its country !!
                        Or is it not entirely voluntary? wink
                        Well, think about it .. Have you forgotten how yet?
                        If you have the opportunity to invest in your own economy ... about 650 billion dollars. (like the Russian Federation), but instead you invest them in bonds of foreign states, leaving the economy on a starvation diet ... Moreover, sometimes such "investments" bring not even a MINOR profit, but direct and considerable losses - as was the case with the purchase of Chinese government bonds in yuan, and the yuan was taken and collapsed ... Oops !!
                        But they helped partners. fool
                        Smart??
                        Maybe it's better to invest in your own economy?
                        OF COURSE BETTER !
                        But you can't. yes bully
                        After all, simply withdrawing these colossal funds to the credit market in the Russian Federation ... even at a preferential (!!) interest rate, say at 3% per annum, it will already be TWO+ times more profitable than getting it from US bonds.
                        And the business, having received such a free loan, will flourish and give such an increase in tax revenues that the Ministry of Finance will be lost - what to do with such money.
                        But it hasn't been done.
                        Not only in our country, but also in the vast majority of countries of the world. laughing
                        Why repeat
                        So there is a factor that makes countries and peoples go bankrupt and drive the population into poverty, in order to saturate the Fed's moneybox?
                        There is .
                        For a kind word always comes with a revolver.
                        Here is Saddam - he decided to send the Fed and began to sell oil for the Euro ...
                        And? ...
                        And there is no Saddam.
                        No Iraq.
                        One of the richest and most developed countries in the region has lost all its wealth and statehood itself ... Now it is practically a Wild Field.
                        Libya?
                        Not this way ?
                        And the "Golden Denarius"?
                        Here for HIM - for an attempt to create a pan-African currency based on (secured) gold and trade in oil for a gold denarius or gold ... he was put on a stake.
                        And they laughed happily.
                        And Medvedev was then asked - on camera, "does he want the same?" , "Are you ready for such a result of attempts for independence" .
                        The dollar has long been backed by neither gold, nor oil, nor commodity coverage of its own (and not only) production ... There are so many dollars in the world that the GDP of the whole world is several times less than this mass of counterfeit bonds.
                        And now it is no longer possible to export inflation outside ...
                        Inflation has come to the USA, and ... WELL come!
                        And there will be a crash.
                        It is already possible the other day - Comrade Xi announced an emergency statement immediately after the Olympics. Having a global character.
                        Then we will listen with interest about
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        government bonds, which are highly liquid and always pay.



                        And if not to disrupt the inevitable, then at least divert attention and point out the false reason for their own collapse ... The United States will blow up the dams of the Dnieper Cascade. Most likely on the night of February 15-16 (it is necessary by all means BEFORE the end of the Olympics) ... and they will blame (or at least try) for this, of course, Russia.
                        Or rather, they ALREADY accused - saying in their media that the Russian Federation would bomb the dams of the cascade in order to destroy the maximum number of "Ukrainians".
                        In all seriousness.
                        For the sake of this, they took out their embassies, and recalled the citizens. Israel 32 special flights of maximum capacity for the export of its citizens. And all your oligarchs have already left Nenka with all their children and household members.
                        You should be thinking about it now, not
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        about government bonds, which are highly liquid and always pay.

                        hi
                      2. 3danimal
                        3danimal 16 February 2022 00: 58
                        +1
                        Your dialogue with yourself is very entertaining. Even somehow it is inconvenient to interfere in it smile
                        Conspiracy theories, the United States lives off robberies (although it exports $ 2 trillion a year). The final touch is to automatically record your opponent as Ukrainians, which indicates the degree of your objectivity negative
                        (I confess, I have never been there in my entire life)
                      3. bayard
                        bayard 16 February 2022 01: 15
                        0
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        The United States lives off robberies (although it exports $ 2 trillion a year).

                        And how much does it import?
                        What is the trade balance in trade with China?
                        And at the expense of 2 billion exports, you turned down.
                        They really turned down - more than half of this amount is "export of services". At the same time, the US trade deficit last year was about 800 billion dollars. , and this is the bankrupt's trade balance.
                        In addition, the Fed is not a state institution, but a cartel of private banks.
                      4. 3danimal
                        3danimal 16 February 2022 02: 42
                        +1
                        more than half of this amount "export of services

                        I wonder where you heard this?

                        https://trendeconomy.ru/data/h2/UnitedStatesOfAmerica/TOTAL


                        The structure of exports from the USA in 2020 was represented by the following main commodity groups:

                        11,9% (170 billion USD): 84 - Nuclear reactors, boilers, equipment and mechanical devices; parts thereof
                        11,3% (161 billion USD): 85 - Electric machinery and equipment, parts thereof; sound recording and reproducing equipment, equipment for recording and reproducing television images and sound, their parts and accessories
                        10,8% (155 billion USD): 27 - Mineral fuels, oil and products of their distillation; bituminous substances; mineral waxes
                        7,35% (USD 105 billion): 87 - Means of land transport, except for railway or tram rolling stock, and their parts and accessories
                        6,74% (96 billion USD): 90 - Optical, photographic, cinematographic, measuring, control, precision, medical, or surgical instruments and apparatus; parts and accessories thereof
                        5,65% (80 billion US $): 88 - Aircraft, spacecraft, and parts thereof
                        4,24% (USD 60 billion): 39 - Plastics and articles thereof
                        4,11% (58 billion US $): 71 - Natural or cultured pearls, precious or semi-precious stones, precious metals, metals clad with precious metal and articles thereof; bijouterie; coins
                        3,76% (53 billion US $): 30 - Pharmaceutical products
                        3% (42 billion US $): 99 - Commodities not specified by type
                      5. Reserve buildbat
                        Reserve buildbat 15 February 2022 21: 12
                        0
                        Are government bonds highly liquid? Are these mattress bonds, the yield of which is stable at -1 - -2,5%? That is, profitable? This is high liquidity. So that you invest your money all your life laughing
                      6. 3danimal
                        3danimal 16 February 2022 01: 04
                        +1
                        Which conspiracy economist told you these numbers?
                        https://ru.investing.com/rates-bonds/usa-government-bonds

                        Update your details.
                        Starting from 7-year bonds pay 2+% per year.
                      7. Reserve buildbat
                        Reserve buildbat 16 February 2022 11: 11
                        0
                        Quite right. since 7-year bonds there is a positive interest. Just compare at the same time the dollar exchange rate 7 years ago and now. The dollar is depreciating much faster.
                        By the way, the "conspiracy theorist" who told me this is at your link.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. nikon7717
                    nikon7717 13 February 2022 23: 41
                    +4
                    This is not reliability today, but the right of the strong, but the restructuring in the minds of financiers is underway
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal 14 February 2022 11: 35
                      -6
                      today is not reliability, but the right of the strong

                      The right of the strong to always pay their financial obligations? So be it, the main thing is that he pays.
                      but the restructuring in the minds of financiers is underway

                      I think you are wishful thinking.
                  3. smart fellow
                    smart fellow 14 February 2022 06: 20
                    +2
                    Okay, let's continue.
                    Russia is getting rid of US Treasury bills and switching to euro and yuan. What is the connection here?
                    Why individuals do not buy US Treasury bills, but choose other investments of money.
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal 14 February 2022 11: 41
                      -8
                      Russia is getting rid of US Treasury bills

                      Because Russia has spoiled relations with the United States (in pursuit of the return of territories and the restoration of geopolitical greatness), is under US sanctions and risks losing the ability to make transactions in $ (despite the fact that 60% of the transaction chain between the hydrocarbon supplier and the recipient is made in $) .
                      This transition will not affect $, because our share in world GDP is within 2%.
                      Why individuals do not buy US Treasury bills, but choose other investments of money.

                      Individuals prefer higher returns and higher risks, unlike governments or large investment funds.
                  4. avg
                    avg 14 February 2022 08: 44
                    +4
                    Commercial banks paying high interest are less reliable than US government bonds (the most reliable). Something like this.

                    Because when the United States has already come full kirdyk, rating agencies, to the last, will give them the best credit rating.
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal 14 February 2022 11: 43
                      -4
                      Because when the USA comes full kirdyk

                      Do not read Khazin in the morning, he has been predicting the imminent end of the US economy for 20 years (every time finding excuses when the date of the “end of the world” has to be moved forward) smile
                      1. avg
                        avg 14 February 2022 13: 12
                        +3
                        Yes, I just read you this morning. Understood, in vain ...
                      2. carstorm 11
                        carstorm 11 15 February 2022 10: 33
                        -1
                        Everything in this world is of course. It is impossible to avoid falling. It comes anyway. Whether you want it or not.
                      3. 3danimal
                        3danimal 16 February 2022 01: 13
                        +1
                        Too general reasoning. We can say that our Sun is also finite, and therefore the Earth.
                        So what are we up to now?
                        Over the past 5 years, at least 2 US-registered companies have reached a capitalization of $1 trillion. (And they pay taxes)
                        Who else can boast like this?
                        You are writing a comment on a device with a processor and OS created by American companies. Use messengers and social networks owned by American companies.
                        Objectively: many start-ups and new companies appear there, making the country even richer. Why should there be a "fall"?
                        Will a meteorite fall, a'la "Armageddon".
                      4. Letun
                        Letun 16 February 2022 15: 41
                        -1
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Do not read Khazin in the morning, he has been predicting the imminent end of the US economy for 20 years (every time finding excuses when the date of the “end of the world” has to be moved forward)

                        Here you just don’t read Khazin, but argue from someone’s free retelling, as in a joke:
                        - Fuck your Beatles!
                        - What about you? Did you listen?
                        - No, the neighbor sang yesterday ...
                      5. 3danimal
                        3danimal 16 February 2022 23: 54
                        +1
                        You just don’t read Khazin

                        Oh, I watched it for a while, about 15-10 years ago. Then he quit.
                        ... a bad predictor out of him.
                  5. alexey sidykin
                    alexey sidykin 14 February 2022 14: 22
                    +1
                    Quote: 3danimal
                    This is a matter of investment security.
                    Commercial banks paying high interest less reliable than US government bonds (the most reliable). Something like this.
                    Reminds me of "The Lannisters always pay." smile

                    Recall how the "Great Depression" began, the economic crisis of 2008. ?
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal 14 February 2022 17: 35
                      -4
                      pay" smile

                      Recall how the "Great Depression" began, the economic crisis of 2008

                      Remind me when the US didn't pay its government bonds.
                      (Hint: it didn't happen)
                      It's just a fact, no matter how you relate to it.
                      1. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 14 February 2022 17: 41
                        -1
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        pay" smile

                        Recall how the "Great Depression" began, the economic crisis of 2008

                        Remind me when the US didn't pay its government bonds.
                        (Hint: it didn't happen)
                        It's just a fact, no matter how you relate to it.

                        If the US economy grunts, then all loans and bonds will be covered with a copper basin, because there will simply be nothing to pay. And yet you did not answer, do you remember how the Great Depression and the 2008 Financial Crisis began?
                      2. 3danimal
                        3danimal 14 February 2022 19: 12
                        -5
                        If the US economy groans

                        This is from the category "if the planet Nibiru falls on us, the economy of the Earth will grunt."
                        Fantasies and wishes, not supported by anything.
                        remember how the "Great Depression" began

                        The reasons are called different, most likely - a combination of them.
                        The Keynesian explanation is the lack of money supply.
                        Monetarism - the crisis was caused by the Fed's monetary policy.
                        They also mention the passage of the Smoot-Hawley Act in 1930, which introduced high customs duties on imported goods.
                        And finally, margin trading in the stock markets.
                        and the Financial Crisis of 2008?

                        failures in financial regulation, violations in corporate governance that led to excessive risks; excessively high household indebtedness; widespread "exotic" securities (derivatives), the growth of an unregulated "shadow" banking system

                        It all started with my words about US government bonds as the most (objectively, confirmed by many decades) reliable tool for long-term investments.
                        In response - all sorts of assumptions in the spirit of "but if suddenly, then then! ..".
                        When there is nothing to object, but you really want to..
                      3. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 14 February 2022 21: 49
                        0
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        If the US economy groans

                        This is from the category "if the planet Nibiru falls on us, the economy of the Earth will grunt."
                        Fantasies and wishes, not supported by anything.
                        remember how the "Great Depression" began

                        The reasons are called different, most likely - a combination of them.
                        The Keynesian explanation is the lack of money supply.
                        Monetarism - the crisis was caused by the Fed's monetary policy.
                        They also mention the passage of the Smoot-Hawley Act in 1930, which introduced high customs duties on imported goods.
                        And finally, margin trading in the stock markets.
                        and the Financial Crisis of 2008?

                        failures in financial regulation, violations in corporate governance that led to excessive risks; excessively high household indebtedness; widespread "exotic" securities (derivatives), the growth of an unregulated "shadow" banking system

                        It all started with my words about US government bonds as the most (objectively, confirmed by many decades) reliable tool for long-term investments.
                        In response - all sorts of assumptions in the spirit of "but if suddenly, then then! ..".
                        When there is nothing to object, but you really want to..

                        Yes... however. Two crises, the first of which shook the whole world so much that the world crawled out of it and, which served as one of the causes of the Second World War, the second of 2008 also shook the whole World, and both have roots beyond the Ocean, and you have everything "yes, this can never happen ..." Although, "the trend is however" especially since the dollar is a candy wrapper and an inflated bubble. Sooner or later, it will explode and the "Great Depression" will seem like a flower before a future crisis, because, unlike America of that time, modern America has nothing of its own industry or production. Those scraps that there are miserable crumbs from the former greatness.
                      4. Gardener91
                        Gardener91 15 February 2022 00: 43
                        0
                        Quote: 3danimal
                        Remind me when the US didn't pay its government bonds.
                        (Hint: it didn't happen)

                        Well, yes, they are monopolists in the production of green wrappers. They've already finished printing, inflation is stomping them so badly now.
                      5. 3danimal
                        3danimal 15 February 2022 05: 19
                        -3
                        The field of the reserve currency brings the United States about $ 40 billion a year. Quite a bit, even on the scale of their economy request
                        Everyone in the world is satisfied with such a role $.
              2. Disant
                Disant 14 February 2022 02: 16
                +5
                Because they always paid on debt obligations, never defaulted

                how will they default if they ALREADY UNCONTROLLED AND WITHOUT ANY PREVIOUS AGREEMENT BETWEEN themselves-bonzes - they print money for tens of trillions of dollars and throw them into the market !!! good EVEN WITHOUT AFFECTING THE GOVERNMENT DEBT!!
                and the public debt (well, they draw something on the scoreboard - they think, like) they automatically increase it in the old fashioned way. in law! in the form of antics at the end of the year, sometimes a technical default is announced for a couple of weeks - like there is nothing to pay - like they think they are scraping something in the bottom of the barrel.
                .
                but in fact, they draw a zero in a computer and then give it out on credit or pay their debt.
                and this zero stands on seven whales in the sea and several are being repaired
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal 14 February 2022 11: 47
                  -5
                  and the public debt (well, they draw something on the scoreboard - they think, like) automatically increase in the old fashioned way

                  More than 2/3 of the public debt is internal, to its own FRS. They'll figure it out.
                  The second point: there is a rule that it is safe for a country to have a public debt in the region of 100% of GDP (the US has just about 100%).
                  For comparison: Japan's public debt is 300% of GDP. When their economy shuts down, I'll be ready to talk about the prospects for the US smile
              3. Letun
                Letun 16 February 2022 15: 38
                +1
                Quote: 3danimal
                Because they always paid on debt obligations, never defaulted request

                But what about when Yanukovych borrowed 4,5 billion from us under guarantees, I don’t remember now, some kind of euro obligations, and then the Maydanuts threw us off with this debt? Even the European guarantees did not help ...
          2. Dima68
            Dima68 14 February 2022 12: 21
            +3
            What difference does it make in which bank to keep the dollars, if they are still controlled by the US Treasury. They will impose sanctions and seize any bank.
        3. antivirus
          antivirus 13 February 2022 11: 27
          -3
          without reading further...
          The United States is forging anti-Chinese alliances. expensive f15 and f77 will be in a deal for fin and other industries, fin and intellectual. and so on "labude" help.
          f15 in Indonesia is also needed for Australia ..
          The Philippines and Taliland are next in line.
          Vietnam is the key to strangling China.
          Taiwan is next in line and everyone will immediately climb against China.
          the removal of products from China and their transfer to other Southeast Asian countries is the basis for buying f15 now.
          buns from the assembly of TV and sneakers + other "bagels".
          The United States made a choice against China and its strangulation, as with the USSR ..
          the end of the story is delayed.
          1. Shuev
            Shuev 13 February 2022 12: 34
            +4
            Quote: antivirus
            f77
            ??
          2. Dva parovoza
            Dva parovoza 13 February 2022 15: 30
            +8
            Strangling China by destroying the su35 deal with Russia... Upgrade your couch, there are bedsores on it.
          3. Mikhail Krivopalov
            Mikhail Krivopalov 13 February 2022 17: 28
            +2
            Whoever threatens their hegemony more and more is strangled. Do not help the enemy, after all.
      2. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 13 February 2022 10: 43
        +8
        But what about the French Rafali, Macron again put in place in the stall?
        1. Seryoga64
          Seryoga64 13 February 2022 10: 51
          +1
          Quote: tralflot1832
          But what about the French Rafali, Macron again put in place in the stall?

          Yes, they get underfoot laughing
        2. Oleg812spb
          Oleg812spb 13 February 2022 12: 28
          +4
          Officially on February 10.02.2022, XNUMX, a contract was signed for Rafali. It seems that the French promised to help them with submarines. Like, divided the market.
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 13 February 2022 12: 39
            +3
            Yes, not bad for the Indonesians for $ 22 billion, the United States and France twisted their hands. Is it interesting to pull?
            1. Fedor M
              Fedor M 13 February 2022 20: 06
              +2
              Most likely on credit.
              1. tralflot1832
                tralflot1832 13 February 2022 20: 15
                0
                The problems of Indonesia should not interest us. They multiply and let them develop.
                1. Sergej1972
                  Sergej1972 13 February 2022 20: 44
                  +3
                  This is GDP at par, as I understand it. There is GDP at par and there is GDP at PPP. Although some comrades, among them a couple of commentators on VO, sticking out their lips, write about GDP according to PPP as a consolation for the poor. But most experts don't think so.
            2. Disant
              Disant 14 February 2022 02: 28
              0
              Yes, not bad for the Indonesians for $ 22 billion, the United States and France twisted their hands. Is it interesting to pull?

              of course pull. we will pay you.
              announced - palm oil has ALREADY risen in price by 50 percent
      3. alystan
        alystan 13 February 2022 13: 05
        +2
        The article is written about the US economic pressure on Jakarta, but in fact rude arm-twisting and undisguised threats.
      4. The comment was deleted.
    2. Timon2155
      Timon2155 13 February 2022 10: 31
      +7
      This is all clear and true, but there are a lot of letters in the article for such a scanty topic. It could be written in one or two sentences.
    3. URAL72
      URAL72 13 February 2022 10: 36
      +10
      Indonesia did not choose anything, the Yankees imposed it

      Bravo Cap! We ourselves know the letters, but of course we cannot understand the meaning of the article. But I’m thinking that the US market is certainly huge, and it’s not compensated by purchases of Indonesian products (50% of the deal), but isn’t it time for the world to move away from the dollar, realizing how shamelessly the states behave with their sanctions, even with allied countries? Indonesia has other economic partners, even with such strong currencies as the yuan, yen, euro. There is support from both ASEAN and the Muslim world. Couldn't they fight back? Could it be an investment?
      1. Alf
        Alf 13 February 2022 22: 07
        +1
        Quote: URAL72
        but isn't it time for the world to move away from the dollar,

        To get away from the dollar, you need another equivalent, such as gold. As with other countries, I feel violet, but I personally don’t understand how Russian gold mined in Russia immediately goes to London.
      2. bayard
        bayard 13 February 2022 23: 31
        +2
        Quote: URAL72
        Could it be an investment?

        The point is "Colt", which, together with "good angry word" is used for greater persuasiveness.
        You try to convince the Kremlin of the need for the Fed ... sorry -
        CBR in the Russian State. wassat . In the Russian Federation, all transactions go through the dollar. Each purchase, sale, money transfer deducts the due "respect" to the owners of the money.
        Or do you think that the "Russian ruble" is the national currency?
        And who emits it from "us"?
        Department of the Federal Reserve in the Russian Federation. And exactly as much as they - the Fed, will decide.
        Those who surrendered their country to "mercy" and reproach to the winners in the Cold War, to this day, are afraid to utter a crooked voice.
        Quote: URAL72
        Have support like ASEAN

        ?? This article just proves the opposite. request
        Quote: URAL72
        and Muslim world

        Saudi Arabia ? UAE? Maybe Turkey?
        Who?
        Erdogan, of course, faggots, but everything is within the bounds of decency.
        And yes, there have been attempts. Agree on trading in national currencies, conduct swaps of national currencies. With India, this happens - in the arms trade. With China, too, albeit with a creak.
        And no one dares anymore.
        Proposals to establish a new financial order in the world can only be a real Superpower. Alas, but the modern Russian Federation is not such.
        The Kremlin cannot bring financial order even at home. lol
        Central Bank on the orders of the IMF and the World Bank last year 120 billion dollars. STERELIZED.
        And he continues to beg for money on TV for the treatment of children !!!
        Strange with retirement age.
        Not enough money?
        Will!!!
        Quote: URAL72
        Couldn't they fight back?

        It looks like they didn't really want to.
        Capitalism is the power of the capitalists.
        Although the constitution says otherwise.
        1. URAL72
          URAL72 14 February 2022 07: 46
          +1
          Now Ankara pays for 15,5% of Russian goods in rubles (the figure for the second quarter of last year is 10,3%). At the same time, Russia pays in domestic currency for 36,2% of deliveries from Turkey (a year ago it was 26,6%).
          It is important that the share of the ruble is growing against the background of an increase in trade: according to statistics from the Federal Customs Service, in the first eight months of the year, the volume of mutual trade reached $17,6 billion, which is 2,3% more than a year earlier.

          Experts are sure that mutual settlements in dollars will soon decline sharply, because in mid-September the head of the Russian Ministry of Finance Anton Siluanov and his Turkish counterpart Berat Albayrak signed an intergovernmental agreement on the further integration of the banking systems of the two countries, including the accession of Turkish financial and credit organizations to the Russian analogue of SWIFT (the Financial Message Transmission System, SPFS developed by the Central Bank), as well as expanding the capabilities of Mir payment system cards in Turkey.

          The article is from 2019, but quite interesting. Recommend.
          1. bayard
            bayard 14 February 2022 21: 06
            +1
            Quote: URAL72
            Now Ankara pays in rubles

            This is, of course, very good, and we have a surplus in trade with Turkey, and many of our vacationers go to Turkey. Putin for another 10+ years offered trading partners to switch to trading in the national. currency, but it comes with a creak and very strong resistance from today's "masters of money".
            Soon China will say its promised "after the Olympics", maybe then the "new world order" will begin, but without the United States and England at the head.
            1. URAL72
              URAL72 14 February 2022 21: 20
              0
              I agree. But it’s not Turkey that pleases me, but the emergence of a Russian payment system and an analogue of SWIFT. 25 years could not understand the need for such priority tasks for an independent economy! Okay, until 2003-4, and then what did the Ministry of Finance do? On trial and to Siberia!
              1. bayard
                bayard 14 February 2022 23: 17
                +2
                Quote: URAL72
                ! Okay, until 2003-4, and then what did the Ministry of Finance do?

                So after all, in order to do something in this area, for several years they strained all the financial forces of the country in order to pay off external debts and return financial sovereignty. And at the end of 2005, such an attempt was made. It ended in failure - two senior officials appointed by Putin to carry out financial reform were killed. And they got down to business very seriously ... But the owners of the money stopped this.
                True, an agreement was concluded that the monetization of the Russian economy would be raised in 10 years from 4% to 40%.
                And the economy of the Russian Federation began to grow rapidly and steadily.
                10 years.
                And then - stagnation.
                For the rate of monetization of a normal economy-100% of GDP.
                And the normal investment policy of DEVELOPMENT.
                This is not. Moreover, since 2015, sanctions have been piled on the Russian Federation and banks with foreign capital have been banned from lending to the Russian economy.
                And stagnation and recession began.
                And under the conditions of the "Budget Rule" from the IMF and the World Bank, the Russian Federation does not have the right to invest even its own budget-earned funds, sterilizing them in various "reserve funds". Last year, as much as 120 billion dollars. sterilized!! In one year!!
                Quote: URAL72
                On trial and to Siberia!

                To begin with, it is necessary to amend the Constitution - to abolish the "Law on the Central Bank" and generally abolish such a structure. Having returned the State Treasury and the State Bank of Russia - sovereign STATE institutions.
                Then the entire financial bloc itself will run away from the country.
                After all, only one domonetization of the Russian economy from 40% to the desired 100% will lead to a MINIMUM doubling of GDP (rather tripling), and a healthy emission and credit policy of the State will ensure its sustainable growth at a pace that China will envy.
                This has been known for a long time.
                The people who were killed in 2005 knew this and worked in this direction.
                But the Russian Federation did not pull such a thing alone.
                But together with China, India, Iran, Turkey, Venezuela (the world's largest proven oil reserves) and a number of other countries, it will be quite capable.
                But the resistance will be fierce.
                One of the actions in terms of counteracting this will be undermining the dams of the Dnieper Cascade on the night of February 15-16.
                This is not hyperbole - the dams have been mined since 2015 by an American military engineering company (on contract with the Pentagon). The Anglo-Saxons completely went off the rails, losing power.

                And yes hi I am also from Donetsk.
                1. URAL72
                  URAL72 15 February 2022 08: 51
                  +1
                  Yes, it's not easy. Deep you dig. I somehow missed a lot in this direction. Sincerely hi I'm glad we are countrymen.
    4. 75 Sergey
      75 Sergey 13 February 2022 10: 39
      +5
      Volodin will buy palm oil, and the money will be given back to the United States and everyone is happy, some bought the planes, others exchanged the planes for money and poisoned the people of Russia along the way, the third earned money and everything is according to the Law.
    5. Shuev
      Shuev 13 February 2022 11: 58
      -8
      "twice as expensive as su-30" or "five times as expensive as su-35" all inclusive

      In the presence of the Su-30, which is 2 times more expensive, the upgrade to the Su-35 without AFAR with a more economical engine is interesting as a Superjet (Mexican cartel and Iranian guards of hydrocarbons).

      Similar to the Chinese guards, the Su-35 is interesting as an upgrade of its own, the oil cartels refused (Egypt, Algeria, Indonesia)

      triple radars capable of spotting even stealth fighters

      The problem with the search for stealth was resolved by the conclusion of this contract

      PS The topic of AFAR has not been disclosed
      1. Tomcat_Tomcat
        Tomcat_Tomcat 13 February 2022 12: 22
        +4
        Quote: Shuev
        "twice as expensive as the Su-30" or "five times as expensive as the Su-35" all inclusive

        On the same day, February 10, 2022, that Indonesia signed an agreement to acquire 42 French Dassault Rafale multi-role fighters, the US Department of Defense Defense Cooperation Agency (DSCA) sent a notice to the US Congress about the possible upcoming sale of 36 Boeing multi-role fighters to Indonesia F-15ID. This shipment is approved by the US Department of State. The total cost of the proposed delivery will be $13,9 billion, including training and technical support packages. Armament not included.

        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4482962.html
        Here's the "all inclusive"
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Shuev
          Shuev 13 February 2022 12: 31
          -2
          Is the delivery of the radar station and its maintenance also not included? am
          1. Tomcat_Tomcat
            Tomcat_Tomcat 13 February 2022 12: 35
            +1
            The Americans offer a lot of things, there is something to see - but this does not pull on "all inclusive". Indonesian Su-35 was also offered with radar (spare parts are also included with aircraft, including spare stations and engines), by the way - it’s rather strange to sell a plane without it, don’t you think?
            1. Shuev
              Shuev 13 February 2022 12: 52
              -3
              Compare all inclusive
              Proposed Su-35 (this is not a Su-30 CM2 for the Army at the Upgrade price), not similar to the UAE Rafale F4 proposal
              1. Tomcat_Tomcat
                Tomcat_Tomcat 13 February 2022 13: 05
                +4
                Quote: Shuev
                Coalition search to contain China takes shape

                and in relations between China and Indonesia, everything is so bad? Their trade turnover is growing year by year, China is investing quite a lot in the economy of Indonesia - it is the second largest after Singapore. What is the point of them going to confrontation?

                Maybe the Yankees just wanted to knock us out of the next arms market?
                1. The comment was deleted.
        3. Shuev
          Shuev 13 February 2022 13: 39
          -3
          The main question is why the Su-35 "Here's all-inclusive" (latest modification), but more expensive versions of the Rafale or used Eurofighter are preferable, without taking into account the US lobby.
          Armament not included
          It's a matter of negotiation
          it doesn't pull
          more to geography question and to radars (without AFAR)

          PS The topic of AFAR has not been disclosed again
          1. Tomcat_Tomcat
            Tomcat_Tomcat 13 February 2022 15: 32
            +3
            Quote: Shuev
            It's a matter of negotiation

            Have you looked at the link? The price announced by the Americans for their "Eagles" is without weapons. Armament will be purchased under separate agreements (and for a fee, of course)
          2. bayard
            bayard 13 February 2022 23: 56
            +2
            Quote: Shuev
            PS The topic of AFAR has not been disclosed again

            The issue of AFAR in the configuration of the Su-35 has never been raised, but the Irbis is more powerful and far-sighted than any competitor's AFAR - a range of 400 - 450 km. for big targets. Turning the canvas "Irbis" gives a much larger viewing angle - up to 240 degrees.
            1. Shuev
              Shuev 14 February 2022 08: 26
              -1
              Quote: bayard
              The question of AFAR in the configuration of the Su-35 never stood

              UAE The French raised this issue, with a break in the negotiations, and got what they wanted.
              Surprising ignorance of the obvious fact, buyers now need an AFAR point
              1. bayard
                bayard 14 February 2022 21: 09
                +1
                Yes, and sellers need it. And not so much for sale, but vice versa, that's just born with difficulty. But they have already given birth.
            2. 3danimal
              3danimal 16 February 2022 02: 36
              0
              but "Irbis" is more powerful and far-sighted than any AFAR of competitors - range 400 - 450 km

              Such a range for EPR is 1-3 m2.
              Significantly less functional and vulnerable to interference, in comparison with AFAR.
              That is why on the Su-57 they immediately planned to install a radar with AFAR.
              1. bayard
                bayard 16 February 2022 04: 43
                0
                Quote: 3danimal
                Such a range for EPR is 1-3 m2.

                Nevertheless, these are the best indicators of the detection range for modern radars.
                And as for noise immunity, I think no one will object - AFAR is out of competition here.
      2. Shuev
        Shuev 14 February 2022 09: 42
        -1
        F-15 vs. Su-35: who will win? (The National Interest, USA)
        In terms of longer ranges, the F-15C and F-15E still have an advantage over the Su-35 due to their active phased array radars. The Raytheon APG-63 (v) 3 and APG-82 (v) 1 radars installed on both Eagles are still significantly superior in their capabilities to the Tikhomirovskaya radar station with a passive phased array Irbis-E, which are equipped with Su- 35. So far, the Russian fighter, indeed, has a slight advantage in the field of passive sensors, since it has a built-in infrared optical-location search and tracking system, however, F-15 aircraft will receive a very advanced search and tracking system in the near future, which will negate the advantage of the Russian " Flanker".
    6. Real Pilot
      Real Pilot 13 February 2022 12: 08
      +2
      I recall Al Capone's quote that "a kind word and a gun are much more effective than a kind word alone" ...
      The Americans simply "made an offer that the Indonesians could not refuse"!
      That's the whole unchanging essence of American business. And gangster methods allow you to get those very additional 300% profits for which capital is ready to commit any crime (according to Karl Marx)!
    7. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 13 February 2022 14: 49
      0
      Quote: Thrifty
      Indonesia did not choose anything, the Yankees imposed their planes on it with the threat of sanctions.

      John Perkins in his "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" described how Indonesia was put "in a corner" by the United States for the first time, and now the same rake again, but they have no way out.
    8. Alexander widerkehr
      Alexander widerkehr 13 February 2022 19: 44
      +1
      Approximate translation. Acquisition cost. In fiscal year 2022, the Air Force will pay $77,9 million for each fully equipped and combat-ready F-35A purchased. On the other hand, each F-15EX will cost $87,7 million, but that's for an airshow. If the Air Force wants to use it in combat, then each aircraft would need a $12,2 million electronic countermeasures system, known as the Eagle Passive Active Warning Survivability System or EPAWSS, and a $900 targeting pod. Thus, the cost of a combat-ready F-000EX reaches $ 15 million, which is 102% more than that of the F-30A.
      MOSCOW, August 12 - RIA Novosti. The cost of the latest Russian combat aircraft such as the Su-34, Su-30 and Su-35 is more than one billion rubles, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev said on Tuesday.

      Today, Russia sells combat aircraft for export worth from 30 to 50 million dollars, depending on their configuration.
    9. l7yzo
      l7yzo 13 February 2022 20: 18
      0
      In armament, the main thing is the service staff. There may be interruptions with it, spare parts can be carried far away - obviously important units will not be given for the future, a new development - secret units - is being repaired from the manufacturer. Their logic is quite understandable. And consider the old Soviet ones - many countries make spare parts for them. It's easier to get them. And 15 - consider the standard - there are a lot of spare parts. It's like driving a non-popular model / brand - everything is fine - but like a breakdown - so everything arrived - the car costs from a week to months - there are no spare parts, and not everyone can fix it.
    10. Yarhann
      Yarhann 14 February 2022 22: 51
      +1
      Palm oil is a highly liquid commodity, just like oil and gas. but for countries heavily dependent on the export of products, it is certainly more profitable to tie long-term contracts to the exported product - after all, the government has much more important things to do than buying flying whistle-blowers.
      And as for palm oil - so the penny is in the top of its consumers in the world) the issue of the transaction was precisely in the exclusion of a dollar, that's all. And a possible agreement with pennies is generally the third.
  2. Flooding
    Flooding 13 February 2022 10: 18
    +34
    30 years ago, professors of economic universities suddenly reoriented themselves to gullible students about the engine of progress in modern society - competition between producers of goods and services.
    how quickly the word faded and lost all meaning.
    competition no longer operates in the international market. politics reigns here, backed up by the economic and military might of states.
    1. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 13 February 2022 10: 23
      +8
      Quote: Flood
      30 years ago, professors of economic universities suddenly reoriented themselves to gullible students about the engine of progress in modern society - competition between producers of goods and services.
      how quickly the word faded and lost all meaning.
      competition no longer operates in the international market. politics reigns here, backed up by the economic and military might of states.

      From what ? Competition just works, backed up by new factors in the XNUMXst century - sanctions and veiled threats!
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 33
        +6
        Quote: Starover_Z
        Competition just works, backed up by new factors in the XNUMXst century - sanctions and veiled threats!

        And the threats are not veiled, and as old as the world.
        The right of the strong.
      2. Tomcat_Tomcat
        Tomcat_Tomcat 13 February 2022 12: 30
        +5
        Quote: Starover_Z
        From what ? Competition just works, backed up by new factors in the XNUMXst century - sanctions and veiled threats!

        This is unfair competition.
        Normal competition implies fair competition when a product is selected based on its characteristics, the provision of additional services by the seller - technical support, staff training, installment and credit purchases, etc. Those. the presence of those factors that make buying from this supplier more attractive than from competitors.
        In this case, there is pressure. You can recall the catchphrase from the famous movie:
        And they won't take it - turn off the gas!
        1. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich 13 February 2022 17: 31
          +1
          Quote from Tomcat_Tomcat

          In this case, there is pressure. You can recall the catchphrase from the famous movie:
          And they won't take it - turn off the gas!
          As of 2011, Indonesia has gas reserves 2,97 trillion cubic meters.
          Gas production - in 2011 91,7 billion cubic meters.
          Approximately half of the produced gas is sold abroad. The main buyers are Japan (43,2%) and South. Korea (36,9%) in the form of LNG.
          The data is not fresh, but the meaning is clear Indonesia - produces and sells gas.
          hi
    2. prior
      prior 13 February 2022 10: 23
      +13
      When the eggs are clamped in a vice, no one even remembers the competition between producers of goods and services.
      Output.
      You must either have a vise or titanium eggs.
      This is the economy... recourse
      1. DymOk_v_dYmke
        DymOk_v_dYmke 13 February 2022 11: 07
        +1
        Quote: prior
        When the eggs are clamped in a vice, no one even remembers the competition between producers of goods and services.
        Output.
        You must either have a vise or titanium eggs.
        This is the economy...

        It will be wonderful if China stops supplying striped vise and Russia titanium. hi
    3. Mikhail Sidorov
      Mikhail Sidorov 13 February 2022 10: 38
      +8
      30 years ago, professors of economic universities suddenly reoriented themselves to gullible students about the engine of progress in modern society - competition between producers of goods and services.

      I assure you nothing has changed in the liberal public in 30 years. The manuals have not been reprinted. And here everything is simple, if you don’t want to take it, you will get it in the face.
    4. Normal ok
      Normal ok 13 February 2022 10: 55
      0
      Quote: Flood
      30 years ago, professors of economic universities suddenly reoriented themselves to gullible students about the engine of progress in modern society - competition between producers of goods and services.
      how quickly the word faded and lost all meaning.
      competition no longer operates in the international market. politics reigns here, backed up by the economic and military might of states.

      So it has always been and always will be.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 13 February 2022 11: 01
        +4
        Quote: Normal ok
        So it has always been and always will be

        If we talk about "always", then everyone always understood that the strong have the right.
        Today, people's brains are heavily diluted with water about new democratic values.
        The point is that our contemporaries in many cases distance themselves from reality and prefer to think that the world around us is exactly the same as Western propaganda inspires.
    5. antivirus
      antivirus 13 February 2022 11: 31
      +2
      and earlier than 30 years began.
      but not everyone said so.
      and stayed with theirs.

      there were few of them.
      confused "scientific community"
    6. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 34
      0
      Quote: Flood
      competition no longer operates in the international market. politics reigns here, backed up by the economic and military might of states.

      And the power of the state is also a factor of competitiveness.
      This is where politics and military doctrine come from.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 13 February 2022 11: 51
        +2
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        the power of the state is also a factor of competitiveness.

        but none of the textbooks say that.
        because the competition is seen as fair competition, not bribed judging
        and where are the limits of reasonable permissible state influence on decision-making in international trade relations?
        Is it possible to call trade relations as such if decisions are made that are unfavorable from an economic point of view?
        and this is done only in order not to incur trouble from a powerful state.
    7. Mikhail Krivopalov
      Mikhail Krivopalov 13 February 2022 11: 38
      +1
      When was it different? Isn't that why the First World War started?
    8. Ol willy
      Ol willy 14 February 2022 08: 06
      0
      Taschemta, competition has always worked. Here in the USSR there were Tagil, Kharkov and Leningrad for tanks. We competed - and very good tanks were obtained.
  3. Avior
    Avior 13 February 2022 10: 20
    +5
    Indonesia bought more expensive Rafali. The author missed this point.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 13 February 2022 19: 52
      0
      For our arms exporters, this is a failure and loss of the market for hundreds of billions of rubles.
  4. Troll
    Troll 13 February 2022 10: 23
    +5
    "Think about the Newyon binomial" (C)
    As old as the world. Either they put them in the paw of those responsible, or they promised them a residence permit, or they got their children into a prestigious university. There are many types of bribery. In general, a rollback and bought from you, and not from a competitor.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 10: 50
      0
      Quote: Troll
      As old as the world. Either they put the responsible in the paw, or promised them

      Everything is much simpler and directly named in the note - they promised big trouble.
      And yes, it's nothing new.
    2. Avior
      Avior 13 February 2022 23: 30
      -2
      In Russia, people are so touchingly naive that they have not even heard of kickbacks....
  5. Prisoner
    Prisoner 13 February 2022 10: 24
    -2
    There is no bad without good. Let's not choke on Indonesian palm oil.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 10: 52
      0
      Quote: Captive
      There is no bad without good. Let's not choke on Indonesian palm oil.

      Do you think our people will be offended and will now buy only Malay?
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 13 February 2022 11: 32
      -6
      Americans will sell it to us even more (5 times more expensive than an airplane) ... and cheaper for the speed of sales.

      look into the eyes of customs officers and milkmen
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 13 February 2022 19: 53
        0
        Palm oil seems to have risen in price by 120%.
  6. Knizhnik
    Knizhnik 13 February 2022 10: 37
    0
    Troll +1 For such sums... probably. And the alibi is ready - we wanted it cheaper, but the Americans forced it with a threat, hegemon, epta
  7. Alien From
    Alien From 13 February 2022 10: 38
    +3
    With a soldering iron near the fifth point, mattresses stood nearby ....... that's all fair competition wassat
  8. Evil 55
    Evil 55 13 February 2022 10: 39
    +1
    Only money, nothing personal...
  9. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 13 February 2022 10: 43
    +4
    Indonesia's goals are not very clear.
    They buy Rafali at the same time,
    and F-15. Aircraft are similar in performance characteristics.
    What for? Moroka with two types in the Air Force ...
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 13 February 2022 10: 52
      +2
      Apparently, they want to have light and heavy fighters in the fleet. Rafal is inferior to the F-15 in terms of combat radius, practical ceiling, maximum speed ..
      1. nks
        nks 14 February 2022 19: 35
        0
        Quote: 3danimal
        Rafal is inferior to the F-15 in terms of combat radius


        Not inferior, but even slightly superior, the rest is insignificant.
        In general, one must understand that so far only a contract for rafali has been concluded. As for f-15, this is a notification, which is not only not a contract in any case, it, as I understand it, has not yet passed the stage of congressional approval (although this is, of course, a formality) - such notifications also indicate the composition and stock price.
    2. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 01
      -4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      They buy Rafali at the same time,
      and F-15. Aircraft are similar in performance characteristics.
      What for?

      Yes, it seems to be written in Russian - forced.
      1. Avior
        Avior 13 February 2022 11: 50
        +3
        And the French forced?
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 53
          -2
          Quote: Avior
          And the French forced?

          So they bought from the French themselves, and then the Americans came and explained that they also need to buy.
    3. Mikhail Krivopalov
      Mikhail Krivopalov 13 February 2022 11: 36
      0
      Perhaps both the Americans and the French paid well, and it was difficult for the ministers signing the contract to choose
    4. just exp
      just exp 13 February 2022 11: 41
      -2
      mattresses forced.
      this will be taken by the French so that they would not be offended by the Australian nuclear submarines.
      they help frechs sell them everywhere, from BV to Asia. so Asia practically did not look at Rafali
    5. pytar
      pytar 13 February 2022 11: 58
      -2
      Indonesia's goals are not very clear. They buy both Rafali and F-15 at the same time. Aircraft are similar in performance characteristics. What for? Moroka with two types in the Air Force ...

      Most likely it is a kind of diversification in order to guarantee partial combat capability in the event of some restrictive external factors. When you are completely dependent on one supplier, for some reason he may decide to put pressure on you, sanctions, embargoes, etc. Let's not forget that Indonesia traditionally has a variety of weapons, there are F-16s and what else is there !? Typically, the military tends to unification weapons, which is cheaper to support and provide. In the case of Indonesia, with its vast island territories, if part of the fleet and weapons in general are under restrictions, well, at least the other part will remain combat-ready!
      In addition, the United States occupy a weighty share in the external trade and economic relations of this country. Indonesia has a significant foreign trade surplus, part of it generated in trade with the US. The purchase of American aircraft reduces the bilateral imbalance, in principle, this is a normal practice in international trade relations. The purchase of weapons is an expensive business, it cannot be considered on its own and separately from the whole complex of trade and economic relations! hi
    6. Iris
      Iris 13 February 2022 13: 52
      -3
      Or maybe they plan to use them in conjunction, as the Mustang and Spitfire were sometimes used during the Second World War? ..
  10. alex aircraft
    alex aircraft 13 February 2022 10: 51
    +2
    Considering that for the Su 27/30 delivered earlier, they paid for 80% of palm rubbish, then the loss is small. Let's hurt our people less. How many Su 35s are in our air forces? can we feed our army first?
  11. Klingon
    Klingon 13 February 2022 11: 01
    -3
    Papuan idiot was bred with a whip for loot wassat
  12. 3danimal
    3danimal 13 February 2022 11: 03
    +1
    At the same time, the Russian fighter has more powerful engines with thrust vector control, longer-range weapons and triple radarscapable of detecting even stealth fighters

    What kind of radar?
    The F-15EX has a radar with AFAR, on the Su-35 the still outdated Irbis with PFAR.
    This is one of the reasons for the choice, as well as the difference in price (avionics is expensive).
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 30
      -1
      Quote: 3danimal
      Here is one of the reasons for choosing

      Yes, like bae, even the Americans admit that there is only one reason. And this is not the price, and not the radar, and not other technical points.
      Exceptional threat of sanctions.
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal 13 February 2022 11: 36
        -1
        Then it was possible to sell some kind of F-15A / B at the price of a new one, if it was only a matter of the threat of sanctions request
  13. farm2009
    farm2009 13 February 2022 11: 05
    +5
    The point is not only in sanctions, but also in the technical lag. The F-15EX and Rafale have AFAR radars, while the SU 35 does not. Stop trying to sell outdated technologies to customers, they won’t buy them, especially considering that they also have a package of sanctions attached to them.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 28
      -5
      Quote: farm2009
      It's not just about sanctions.

      In this case, only in sanctions.
      The technical characteristics of the Papuans were quite satisfactory, and even the contract was signed.
  14. Klingon
    Klingon 13 February 2022 11: 06
    -6
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Indonesia's goals are not very clear.
    They buy Rafali at the same time,
    and F-15. Aircraft are similar in performance characteristics.
    What for? Moroka with two types in the Air Force ...

    They showed the sails a pair of different colored beads, twisting them in their hands and did not understand which ones sparkle more, so we decided to take both wassat
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 13 February 2022 11: 39
      +8
      When a certain country chooses Russian products - "dear partners".
      When choosing competitors' products -
      "Papuans".

      I think the Indonesian military just looked at the VO forum.
      Everyone can use Google Translator.
      They read the humiliating reviews of Russians about their country and ..sent to three Indonesian letters.

      By the way, this applies not only to Indonesia. The Internet is available to everyone. And Russia, I suspect, has lost quite a few contracts because of chauvinistic, offensive remarks by Russian users about various countries.
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 13 February 2022 12: 39
        -7
        The opinions of the Israelis forgot to ask here. Sit straight and watch so that pipes don’t fly to you from your Papuans again
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Iris
          Iris 13 February 2022 14: 53
          -1
          At the Forum, they don’t “ask” for someone’s opinion at all, everyone expresses it at will, in accordance with the Rules.
      2. pytar
        pytar 13 February 2022 12: 45
        +2
        When a certain country chooses Russian products - "dear partners".
        When he chooses the products of competitors - "Papuans". I think the Indonesian military ... Read the humiliating reviews of the Russians about their country and ..sent to three Indonesian letters. By the way, this applies not only to Indonesia. The Internet is available to everyone. And Russia, I suspect, has lost quite a few contracts because of chauvinistic, offensive remarks by Russian users about various countries.

        Although comic, your thought Alex, Pts true! If possible, I would give you 100+!

        The VO forum goes off scale from the negative directed to other countries and peoples! Not a healthy environment, causing surprise and regret. A similar situation with ru-media in general! They form a negative perception of Russia and Russians abroad is stronger than the Western media. hi
        1. the Urals
          the Urals 13 February 2022 15: 03
          -4
          What nonsense! their media have been writing nasty things about us for the last three hundred years! The Internet was not always, and mind you, this is a normal policy for them, it does not depend on us in any way
          1. pytar
            pytar 13 February 2022 16: 21
            0
            their media have been writing nasty things about us for the last three hundred years!

            And you are not far behind! But in the end, they outdid themselves!

            The Internet was not always, and mind you, this is a normal policy for them, it does not depend on us in any way

            What about "they"? You scold here, be rude to the Indonesians! Because they bought not yours, but American planes? And the Indians on the forums were little mocked, or what? Yes, you offend everyone who didn’t please you with something! The list of dislikes is huge! This is fine??
            1. Disant
              Disant 14 February 2022 03: 12
              0
              You scold here, be rude to the Indonesians! Because they bought not yours, but American planes?

              what is the insult here?
              in the word "PAPUAS"?
              so they are the Papuans - THEY LIVE THERE)))).
              This is one group of peoples of Indonesia.
              1. Disant
                Disant 14 February 2022 03: 13
                -1
                quote
                Who did you call anyger? Now I will show you who Niger.
                You shouldn't have called him a Negro. - And who is he? - African American.
                Who cares?
                A nigga is an offensive curse for them.
                Yes, that's what they taught me in school. The Chinese live in China, the Germans live in Germany, the Jews live in this ... Israel, and the Negroes live in Africa
              2. pytar
                pytar 14 February 2022 10: 49
                0
                It's not even a question of naming. The general meaning of the posts is humiliating and offensive, that's the point! And it is everywhere so, wherever you look under the articles. Here is an article about Romanians, as soon as they are not rude! There are a million examples! It seems that this is not a site about military equipment, but the devil knows what...?!
        2. Machnamh
          Machnamh 13 February 2022 17: 57
          +1
          Quote: pytar
          The VO forum goes off scale from the negative directed towards other countries and peoples


          You are very right in pointing out. Many do not pay attention to this. Look at the terminology. You speak Russian quite well. The Americans here are mattress toppers, the British are small-shaven and arrogant Saxons... I wouldn't express myself like that, especially to be exposed like that to the public. Let's move on. Well, the fact that the Poles are psheks and the Romanians are mamalyzhniks ... well, to be honest, it’s not worth it either. The Bulgarians are a little better for you - at least you are little brothers, but at the same time lures. But at least you were not a member of the USSR. In the Tribaltic, the worst --- they are already sprats (this is probably worse than just Chukhons --- sabrefish really also exists). Although they were in the USSR, but traitors and contra unfinished. But Belarusians were often called Bulbash here. According to the national food product. This is already quite bad - they were in the USSR, and they are Russians in general !! How so?! Georgians, of course, they are rodents, although they were in the USSR, but they are not Russians either. But it's also bad to call names. Well, worse than all the Ukrainians now. We are Kh.o.kh.ly, and sharovarniks, and saloeds, and forelocks (a new-fangled word, but what about those who are bald? Also forelocks? Their Don Cossacks and others also with dashing forelocks). Well, and so on in the analogues of the names of Ukrainians .... And they especially like to excel in the name of Ukraine - Nezalezhnaya, 404, not a country, Ukraine, Ukraine ... By the way, they like to place the name Nezalezhnaya in the articles themselves, these are no longer just commentators, these are publicists-journalists-writers. Is it difficult to write Ukraine? It's called all over the world. And at the same time, the local commentators, who love to go so far in word creation on the Ukrainian theme, all these Nyrob, Zyablitsevs, Andrey Nikolaevichs, for some reason, always write the names of the countries Uruguay, Costa Rica with a capital letter, and next to it the name of the country Ukraine is also neatly always with a small one - Ukraine. What do they highlight? And they themselves do not quite understand clearly. Are these comments helpful? And who needs them? To strengthen the Russian Federation itself and its citizens? Unlikely. How do these commentators think? This is how they work here and are required to act this way? Or are they free in their creativity, but at the same time, Tamas, this mode of ignorance, sharply prevails in their consciousness?
          1. Iris
            Iris 13 February 2022 19: 35
            +2
            It is difficult to say who is a professional and who is an amateur ..
            One thing is certain - these people have no idea about self-esteem. Only a person who deeply disrespects himself is capable of descending to such an abomination.
            In my personal opinion, when drawing up the rules, the administration of the forum missed the chance to avoid this disgrace: it was enough to ban any derogatory epithets in relation not only to Russia and Russians, but also to any nationalities and countries.
          2. pytar
            pytar 14 February 2022 12: 36
            0
            You are all correct! Respect! hi When asked where the hands of this phenomenon grow, the answer is given by the federal media with their political programs. You are there with Solovyov, Sheinin, Skabeev, Kiselev, etc. see the same message! bully
        3. ufasipailovo
          ufasipailovo 13 February 2022 21: 53
          -2
          Ordinary Russianism
      3. Iris
        Iris 13 February 2022 14: 35
        +3
        When a certain country chooses Russian products - "dear partners".
        When choosing competitors' products -
        "Papuans".


        Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye))
        But the influence of the Internet still seems to me somewhat exaggerated. Unfortunately.
      4. Knizhnik
        Knizhnik 14 February 2022 05: 55
        0
        As for the "offensive remarks", it's true, it's worse than bitter radish. Only the chauvinism of users ("who will plant him") is hardly capable of influencing views on national defense and covering multiple differences in contracts. Money not only does not smell, but also has no emotions. laughing Can't you just remember offhand a couple of countries that massively hate, for example, the United States, but dream of acquiring something "US" by any means? wink And there is no way to compare the level of "promotion" of goods: where a Russian or an Israeli can only offer discounts, service and a "hat", the Yankees add a delay in "color revolutions", favorable reports on "human rights" and LGBT, and the safety of "secret " management accounts in banks abroad hi PS I do not urge to look up to them, on the contrary, but in some North American forums "such a feeling" that "1984" has come. And it's scary to think how they would react to the proposal to stop "offensive remarks." hi
  15. Soldatov V.
    Soldatov V. 13 February 2022 11: 15
    -1
    It’s somehow purple to me from whom and what Indonesia buys. The island country, which is not an island is a volcano, is still waging a sluggish civil war. What else do I know, the country is clogged with household garbage, the rivers are covered with it, like our rivers are covered with ice in winter. And cocaine and morphine everywhere. hi
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 25
      -1
      Quote: V.
      purple from whom and what Indonesia buys.

      This is yes.
      But.
      They refused to buy from us, that's the main thing.
      1. Soldatov V.
        Soldatov V. 13 February 2022 11: 56
        -1
        If they are so dependent on America and seem to always vote against us in the UN, then why should we mess with them? Maybe on our Indonesian planes, the Yankees are working out methods of dealing with them. And then they don’t pay us with money, but with technical oil that we take for food. So let the Americans and the French keep Indonesia, it will be cheaper for us. soldier
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 59
          -1
          Quote: V.
          . So let the Americans and the French support Indonesia, it will be cheaper for us

          Vice versa. Now the Americans and the Franks will earn.
          And we, we'll still buy that oil from them, so we'll feed them.
    2. Machnamh
      Machnamh 13 February 2022 18: 33
      +2
      Quote: V.
      Island country, what is not an island is a volcano

      Almost 2 million square kilometers of territory. Crossed in half by the equator, the climate is only equatorial and subequatorial. Under agricultural land 1/8 of the country. About 250 thousand sq. km. A little more than the territory of Belarus plus the Bryansk region of the Russian Federation. The crop can be harvested all year round. There is no winter. There is still a lot of rainforest, but it must be treated with care. Always restore if and cut down. The population is currently 270 million. Almost 2 times higher than in the Russian Federation. It may be too much, but there will be enough labor resources. And there is someone to support pensioners. As for the civil sluggish --- an exaggeration. Muslims predominate everywhere. There were some troubles with northern Sumatra, but this issue was settled. Everything is peaceful and calm now. In the Philippines, yes, there is a conflict between Muslims and Christians. This is not the case in Indonesia. Yes, the island position complicates transport and communications somewhat, but they do a good job of it. Yes, there is seismic activity and volcanoes. But the country is on the border of the Pacific ring of fire. Yes, and not so often there just the same so that cataclysms. Indonesia has more pros than cons
      1. Soldatov V.
        Soldatov V. 13 February 2022 20: 26
        0
        One worries about America, stands up for her, the other stands up for Indonesia, you worry about Russia if Russian .. Indonesia is not an island, then another tribe. Where is Indonesia and where are we. I also found a buyer, I’ll buy it, I won’t buy it, he doesn’t want to pay money, let’s smear you from head to toe with oil. Khrushchev gave how many fleets, weapons, and what's the point? There are a lot of people, so let them develop in any direction. By the way, you can launch rockets into space cheaply from the equator. Quarantine was announced and the entire tour industry crashed, everyone is hungry, they don’t know how to do anything else. Miklukho-Maclay is somewhere nearby, he lived with tribes from the Stone Age. But it seems that they don’t pay pensions at all, precisely because of the large number of mouths and the lack of work books. bully belay
        1. Soldatov V.
          Soldatov V. 13 February 2022 20: 34
          0
          Supplement - pensions are paid in Indonesia only to former civil servants !!!
          1. Machnamh
            Machnamh 13 February 2022 23: 40
            -2
            Oh mein Gott! This is because they did not go through socialism, as Russia-USSR went through at one time. And most do not know what a welfare state is. The USSR was not an ideal socialist state, but I do not remember that today's idiotic and unfortunately common word --- ELITE was used then. As if the "elite" smells differently, it smells good. Yes, there was no equality. One is tall, the other is short, one has hair, the other is bald... It's all clear. But there was no such wild inequality as it is today. And they were accustomed to the idea that everything in the state is yours too, including .... There was also an attempt in Indonesia to start building real socialism, but it was drowned in blood in 1965. Then uber lyudki, such as Pinochet, were enthusiastic about this and already accepted it into service (a concentration camp stadium, etc.). Otherwise, they would have a universal social pension for old age and other good reasons ... And Indonesia is a beautiful country. Remember the song

            Washed by warm seas,
            Ancient forests covered,
            Country of origin Indonesia,
            We have love for you in our hearts...


            It's warm there and you can't get around outside in winter. Unlike Russia, Belarus, Ukraine. And you don’t need any heating (that’s another chiryak!). And food can be found. Of course, if you have lived in a cold climate all your life, then at 60, moving there can even end fatally. Especially if the cardiovascular is already playing pranks. But that's not the case
            1. Soldatov V.
              Soldatov V. 14 February 2022 05: 58
              +1
              You have a purely old man's dream, a desire to be warm, not to pay for heating, eat pickles, sleep, then knock on the keys and convey to people that they do not understand much. As I understand you. yes
              1. Machnamh
                Machnamh 14 February 2022 14: 04
                0
                Well --- if youth knew, and old age could ... Would an 18-year-old with the brains of a 50-year-old go to Afghanistan to test himself, so to speak, to grab adrenaline in some way?
                1. Soldatov V.
                  Soldatov V. 14 February 2022 15: 04
                  0
                  No, I wouldn't go. Although the experience of four years in the navy in the school and two in the army, combat duty. Six years in the barracks. If ordered, he would not refuse. I think that at that time I was professionally prepared. Six months in training and in battle is nothing. Sending 18 year olds to Afghanistan is a crime.
                  And in Syria, everything is not so clear. At the age of 50, if you have health, you can grab adrenaline in the DPR, sit in a trench for three months. The Europeans do just that, they come to the Bandera national battalions.
                  A good warm apartment, a caring wife, a good pension, fishing, what else does a Russian pensioner need. fellow hi
  16. Okakakiev
    Okakakiev 13 February 2022 11: 20
    -1
    Free market and fair competition is how it is described in textbooks fellow
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 42
      +1
      Quote: Okak Okakiev
      fair competition

      Everything is extremely honest. Americans have an impenetrable competitive advantage, and they honestly used it.
      1. Okakakiev
        Okakakiev 13 February 2022 11: 44
        -1
        In textbooks, advantage means something else, usually, for example. cheapness
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 46
          -2
          Quote: Okak Okakiev

          Okakakiev
          Today, 11: 44
          NEW

          0
          In textbooks, advantage means something else.

          Is it?
          There is also the "other" option, so in this case it outweighed everything else.
      2. Soldatov V.
        Soldatov V. 13 February 2022 12: 00
        0
        Konstantin You fell off the moon, When there was fair competition in business, especially between opposing countries.
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 12: 14
          +1
          Quote: V.
          Konstantin You fell from the moon,

          I AM?!
          I just perfectly imagine the ways of competition and their "honesty".
          But in this case, everything was extremely honest - in America they adopted a law on counteraction, and honestly brought it to the attention of everyone.
          1. Soldatov V.
            Soldatov V. 13 February 2022 12: 51
            -3
            Are you not an Israeli citizen? So zealously defend the United States.
            1. Jacket in stock
              Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 12: 53
              0
              Quote: V.
              Are you not an Israeli citizen? So zealously defend the United States.

              I am a citizen of Russia.
              And I'm not defending the US. Moreover, they manage perfectly well without my protection.
              I just "what I see is what I sing"
    2. Ol willy
      Ol willy 14 February 2022 08: 30
      -1
      A quick question: why doesn't China export its Sushki?
  17. rocket757
    rocket757 13 February 2022 11: 23
    -1
    The American publication explained the purchase by Indonesia five times more expensive F-15 instead of Russian Su-35
    . The minke whales are using what they have been creating for a long time ... nothing else can be expected.
    1. Mikhail Krivopalov
      Mikhail Krivopalov 13 February 2022 11: 34
      +5
      Specifically, this modification of the F15EX model of 2021, and has the same relation to the initial F15 as the Su35 to the Su27. But you don’t write that the Russian Federation uses what they created a long time ago, even under the USSR
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 13 February 2022 11: 50
        +2
        Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov
        You don’t write that the Russian Federation uses what they created a long time ago, even under the USSR

        What was created under the USSR was reset in 1991.
        And it's not just about airplanes.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 13 February 2022 11: 54
          0
          Exactly, he didn’t write about airplanes, but about the control system of "overseas colonies" .... which, for some reason, call themselves independent states.
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 13 February 2022 11: 58
        0
        Not about the plane ... which, by the way, I take very seriously. A powerful platform, especially for solving air defense tasks.
        Over time, others, of a new generation, will come to replace them, but for now they will "work" in parallel ... there is nothing contradictory here.
  18. Oleg812spb
    Oleg812spb 13 February 2022 11: 24
    +1
    This is some kind of "intermediate" information. The contract for the Rafali was officially signed - "Indonesia decided to purchase 42 Rafale fighters from France" https://ria.ru/20220210/rafale-1772009777.html, etc.
  19. UAZ 452
    UAZ 452 13 February 2022 11: 30
    0
    If the American F-15 will cost Indonesia 386 million dollars, then the Russian one will cost only 78 million.

    F-15 for almost 400 million?! So much not like the F-35, even the F-22 are not worth it! What was stuffed into the contract up to such an amount? A full life cycle contract, including refueling and replenishment of expended weapons?
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 13 February 2022 11: 38
      +2
      The price includes pilot training, maintenance and other expenses.
    2. Soldatov V.
      Soldatov V. 13 February 2022 12: 07
      -1
      It looks like just inflation, today and future.
  20. Mikhail Krivopalov
    Mikhail Krivopalov 13 February 2022 11: 31
    +5
    Where did the price of 386 million apiece come from? Googled, everywhere the price is about 90-95 million for this modification. Or did they take the contract price and divide it by the number of aircraft? But it doesn’t work like that, the contract includes maintenance, equipment for maintenance and training of personnel and pilots, and weapons.
    1. Cb master
      Cb master 13 February 2022 13: 40
      -2
      price+rollback laughing
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. Okakakiev
    Okakakiev 13 February 2022 11: 46
    -1
    In general, an excellent f15 fighter, but I'm not sure that it is 5 times better than ours.
  23. APASUS
    APASUS 13 February 2022 12: 12
    0
    And given that they wanted to put oil in the place of money for us, and they bought it from the Americans for money, it’s logical to punish Indonesia a little. It’s time to refuse to buy this palm manure. Let the United States and France take care of the implementation
    1. Mikhail Krivopalov
      Mikhail Krivopalov 13 February 2022 17: 23
      -1
      And who will punish, those who then feed this palm oil at exorbitant prices to the people?
  24. engineer74
    engineer74 13 February 2022 12: 19
    -1
    Another confirmation of the myth "On the invisible hand of the market"! In the sense that this is really a myth! wassat
  25. acetophenone
    acetophenone 13 February 2022 12: 44
    0
    Quote from Tomcat_Tomcat
    Normal competition means fair competition,

    Normal competition is a spherical horse in a vacuum.
  26. mag nit
    mag nit 13 February 2022 13: 02
    -4
    Don't Indonesians know that sanctions are only good?
  27. Charik
    Charik 13 February 2022 13: 11
    -2
    and without loha and life is bad
  28. Cb master
    Cb master 13 February 2022 13: 39
    -1
    More expensive plane, tastier kickbacks laughing
  29. BABAY22
    BABAY22 13 February 2022 14: 42
    +5
    This is how the bourgeoisie has fair competition and a market economy
  30. sen
    sen 13 February 2022 15: 06
    +1
    The American publication explained the purchase by Indonesia five times more expensive F-15 instead of Russian Su-35

    Indonesia is not India, it is more difficult for it to protect itself from the economic pressure of the United States, which organized the "last crusade" against Russia.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 13 February 2022 20: 01
      0
      It is necessary to push the Su 57 and Su 75 to foreign markets - you see, the demand for them will go and production for the needs of Russia will increase.
  31. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 13 February 2022 16: 04
    0
    Edition Military Watch issued a very objective information.
  32. DienBienPhu
    DienBienPhu 13 February 2022 20: 21
    0
    The US is the second largest trade partner of Indonesia. Any embargo will result in foreign direct investment leaving Indonesia.
  33. bulava74
    bulava74 13 February 2022 21: 09
    +2
    Buying equipment from America, Indonesia is moving away from Soviet technical and military standards, towards Western, European-American ones.
    Thus, there is an integration in military interaction with the US allies in this region - Australia, the Philippines, Taiwan, Thailand, Sri Lanka, etc.
    First of all, these are communication standards, weapon calibers, standards for fuels and lubricants, logistics, logistics. That is, all that, ok ***, influences the result of possible conflicts in this corner of the globe.

    As we remember, the US has identified China as its strategic rival. And this "Asian lion", he has already outgrown the tiger, as we remember, adheres to Soviet military standards. So America is raking up possible allies in the confrontation. Well, it won't hurt to earn money.

    A normal, quite adequate strategic move for the United States. This is a policy of interests and here all means are good.

    ps
    At the same time, Russia received a "click on the nose." Another potential partner jumped from us. Sad...
    1. iz odessy
      iz odessy 14 February 2022 11: 47
      0
      aviation, by definition, is the elite of the armed forces of any country. Of course, the elites are different among the elites. So, our weapons, the Soviet one, have two main principles of application - simplicity and reliability. American - manufacturability and efficiency. As a conclusion, the manufacturability of weapons requires a fairly high level of education and training. You won’t be able to take the Javelin from the ground and hit it right away. A bunch of rules .. unlike RPGs, with a bar. So pilots are trained personnel, like technicians, and the principle of "fire and forget" in this case is much more important than simplicity
  34. Igor Valimukhametov
    Igor Valimukhametov 13 February 2022 21: 16
    0
    Well, let them eat their own palm oil. The Yankees are not us, they will demand money for fighters. It's only ours who manage to sell weapons for all sorts of nonsense
  35. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 13 February 2022 21: 26
    0
    Recently it was reported about the choice of Rafal?
  36. Roman Efremov
    Roman Efremov 13 February 2022 21: 35
    0
    World has gone mad? 400 for a fighter? Well, of course, you can’t buy a cruiser for that kind of money, a destroyer, perhaps, too - but a frigate is already possible, right? .............. .. laughing
  37. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 13 February 2022 21: 58
    +2
    Everything seems to be somewhat broader than just the rejection of Russian aircraft, the Americans, in contrast to China, have already created AUKUS, military-technical cooperation with India, Indonesia, South Korea and Japan is expanding, all this is a game of the Americans for a long time, for decades, in economic and possibly military strangulation China, and then the Americans will deal with the North Koreans
  38. PiI_Ot
    PiI_Ot 13 February 2022 22: 37
    -5
    They did everything right. Who needs our iron when there is a head better
  39. Selenium
    Selenium 14 February 2022 00: 06
    +1
    Let them buy! And they wear and dance! And we'll see what kind of animals! Our Instructors are always there!
  40. Dkuznecov
    Dkuznecov 14 February 2022 00: 12
    0
    Here are questions for our traders and for our Foreign Ministry,
    With their artistic whistle.

    Not a kind word, not a gun,
    neither of them have been found to be used in combination.
    Judging by the result.
    I'll drop the lyrics.

    "But it doesn't hurt us, it doesn't hurt" - it works
    for second graders at school. But in life, no.
    Therefore - we go further.
  41. IC
    IC 14 February 2022 01: 29
    +2
    In the serious arms trade, technical data is not a priority, but financial and political conditions are.
    Numerous commentators on the portal overthrow the F 35 all the time. But for some reason, countries lined up for this aircraft. It is hard to believe that their specialists are less competent than commentators.
  42. Zippo
    Zippo 14 February 2022 05: 47
    0
    I don’t understand, I’m just from the village, explain why the planes are the same in terms of parameters so different in price?
  43. The comment was deleted.
  44. Anton Gareev
    Anton Gareev 14 February 2022 10: 41
    +1
    In the upcoming confrontation, Malaysia and Indonesia are antagonistic countries, such as India and Pakistan, China and Japan, etc. With this step, it seems to me, Indonesia has finally decided on whose side it will be - on the side of the Anglo-Saxons. And, together with Japan, they will oppose China. To paraphrase the "classics": "The US will fight China to the last Indonesian." Those. it seems to me that the choice of Indonesia is the choice of a strategic partner for the next 30-40 years, and this choice is not always "friendly" with economic benefits or performance characteristics of aircraft.
  45. iz odessy
    iz odessy 14 February 2022 11: 38
    0
    everything is so complicated, in the comments. The person is prone to fantasy. Motives - from the desire to seem smarter than they are, to a conspiracy worldview that simplifies understanding of the world. Reality is often simpler - imagine yourself in a store, in a car dealership, etc. and your motive is to buy something from the same one according to TTX or TTD, which is more expensive. You are not there, we have a deal with aircraft, and there is an almost completely secret contract, with guarantees, with goodies, etc. A weapon is a business until it shoots at customers, a good business, and it is -1. benefit 2. this is primitive - money. Therefore, buzzing about stupid Indonesian, dependent - about p_buzzing
  46. AndiesemgedankenZiehichallezukunft Ni
    AndiesemgedankenZiehichallezukunft Ni 14 February 2022 13: 58
    -1
    They buy Rafale, not f15 ex: rafale can easily jam su-35 radar, as enlightend recently in egypt. FULL STOP.
  47. alexey sidykin
    alexey sidykin 14 February 2022 14: 19
    -1
    Yeah, American choice; knife to the throat and "life or wallet".
  48. Oleg133
    Oleg133 14 February 2022 15: 38
    0
    Can you resist good marketing?
  49. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 14 February 2022 16: 02
    -1
    The Indonesians don't have any money.
    Now let the merikos of palm oil bite :)
  50. Frol Frolov
    Frol Frolov 14 February 2022 17: 11
    0
    Well, everything is not so one-sided, before the Indonesians were not afraid of pressure, I suspect the reason is the same as that of citizens buying a Ford Focus instead of a Zhiguli (there are also comparable performance characteristics) - money appeared, I wanted better.