Military Review

China is upgrading a copy of the Su-27 fighter to the level of J-11D with AFAR

31

In the course of the formation of its own military aircraft industry, China relied on the samples of combat aircraft available at that time, mainly Russian and American models. One of them was the Soviet heavy fighter Su-27, which, as a result of licensed copying, turned into the J-11 at local production facilities.


As part of the import substitution program, the PRC defense industry launched the production of a number of its own J-11 components and assemblies and made a number of improvements to the aircraft (new radar, flight control system, optoelectronic sighting system, INS and data indication on the glass and display), however, retaining the main Su-27 parameters. This version received the designation J-11B.

In 2015, it became known about a new modification - J-11D, the main acquisition of which was a radar with an active phased antenna array (AFAR) instead of a pulse-Doppler radar, which leaves the original Soviet Su-27 far behind. J-11Bs from the existing fleet are brought to the level of J-11D. Since the end of 2019, this version has been increasingly found in official photo and video materials.

Regular appearances of an improved fighter point to a massive modernization program

- indicated in the Global Times.

As explained, outwardly it can be distinguished from the J-11B by the white coloring of the head fairing - its predecessor had a black color. The AFAR (Active Phased Array) radar on the J-11D enables target detection at greater distances and angles, better situational awareness, and stronger anti-jamming capabilities. In addition, as indicated in the publication, the new radar allows the use of an improved long-range air-to-air missile PL-15.

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  1. Zoldat_A
    Zoldat_A 15 February 2022 08: 07
    +9
    I used to go to art school. Draw. And there was a friend. When they asked a "composition" - that is, a theme, and then creativity, then my friend - a generator of ideas, unable to bring a single thought to its logical conclusion, well, just gushed with ideas. Therefore, we did a "composition" with him together. He generated ideas, and I selected the necessary ones and polished them technically. As a result, both passed on "excellent".

    Why am I doing this?
    To the fact that China has left the "copier country". He takes an idea, polishes it, brings it to mind. Today he has both money and resources for this. Is today's Chinese Su-27 the same "Drying" of the 87th year?
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 15 February 2022 08: 43
      +5
      Quote: Zoldat_A
      Is today's Chinese Su-27 the same "Drying" of the 87th year?

      You are all right, but could you at least copy the engine? There is evidence that the Chinese copy of the AL-31 is still significantly inferior in resource. So it's not all pretty...
      1. da Vinci
        da Vinci 15 February 2022 09: 02
        +3
        Can copy AFAR, or microelectronics?
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 15 February 2022 09: 06
          +1
          Quote: da Vinci
          Can copy AFAR, or microelectronics?

          Russia has AFAR. Accordingly, and electronics for it. A plant for the production of AFAR is being built (already built, probably) in the near Moscow region ... The element base is being made in Tomsk, and in St. Petersburg ... I don’t know where else, I haven’t come across it.
          1. UGM159
            UGM159 15 February 2022 09: 59
            -3
            Yuriy BELY: “However, there is still no program for the development of gallium nitride technology for AFAR PPM, which would link the entire line, starting from raw materials and further along all technological chains. Here, the US and China have long been ahead.”
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 15 February 2022 10: 47
              +4
              Quote: UGM159
              Yuriy BELY: “However, there is still no program for the development of gallium nitride technology for AFAR PPM, which would link the entire line, starting from raw materials and further along all technological chains. Here, the US and China have long been ahead.”

              In St. Petersburg, epitaxial structures are made using the MBE method, gas-phase epitaxial structures are grown in many places, and we supply sapphire for substrates to many people. What else needs to be closed?
              1. UGM159
                UGM159 15 February 2022 11: 40
                +5
                The fact...
                “The security of the country is under threat due to the treacherous policy in the field of GaAs and GaN technologies”
                https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/324458/elenanew/
                “Domestic technologies used in the production of electronics are outdated and lag behind the Western level by at least 10 years. Therefore, the process of transplanting the A-100 radar complex to native, domestic chips faced serious difficulties.” This is stated in the article "Military-Industrial Courier" entitled "When will the premiere of "Premiere" take place."

                We are talking about a headquarters flying on the basis of the Il-76MD-90, equipped with a super-radar capable, according to the performance characteristics stated in the project, to detect fighters at a distance of up to 600 kilometers, as well as to identify subtle targets. True, for this, appropriate amplifying and computing systems must be installed on board, which can “see far” and process a huge array of radio wave information online.

                And with this, as noted, for example, by the Indian Internet resource EurAsian Time, the Russians have very big problems caused by American sanctions. According to the observer of this publication, the project, important for Moscow, is paralyzed.

                It is not a fact that the once again shifted deadline for the commissioning of the A-100 Premier in 2024 will be met. Perhaps Russia will have to rely on the Soviet AWACS A-50 for a long time, although the machine is certainly outdated. Such a publication by EurAsian Time, of course, casts a thick shadow on other domestic systems of modern weapons, such as the 5th generation Su-57 fighter and the S-500 air defense system.

                There is a suspicion that the situation in this area is much worse than many in our country imagine. In particular, the A-100 AWACS aircraft requires not only powerful computing electronics, but also chips and electronic devices based on gallium arsenide (GaAs) and gallium nitride (GaN). They are also called solid-state microwave (MW) electronic component base.

                To understand what is meant, it is logical to look into American reference materials on military solid-state electronics. For example, the University Wafer website explains why GaN technologies are used on American Boeing E-3 Sentry aircraft: radars and jammers.

                The fact is that the radio frequency power of GaN is five times higher than that of materials of past generations, including silicon. Gallium nitride transistors can operate at much higher temperatures and at much higher voltages than gallium arsenide transistors. It also says that AWACS without GaN is a Stone Age aircraft.

                So it is, but here we need some explanation. The Yankees themselves are highly dependent on the Taiwanese company WIN Semiconductors, which, although it produces 9,1% of all semiconductors based on gallium arsenide, controls approximately 80% of the global GaN market in monetary terms. In theory, GaAs electronics could be used, but they are also mainly produced in Taiwan by AWSC and Wavetek.

                On the one hand, this means that the Americans have deprived Taiwan of sovereignty, although the island is de jure part of the PRC. Otherwise, for sure, the A-100 project would somehow move forward, despite the ban on the use of foreign "stuffing". As you know, when you can’t, but really want to, then you can. On the other hand, according to the Washington-based Project 2049 Institute think tank, the Yankees themselves are stupid in GaAs and GaN electronics, but "as weapons systems require more and more advanced chips, the United States ... will have to rely on Taiwan for the production of complex semiconductors."

                Some will say that this does not make it any easier for us. Be that as it may, the United States has everything necessary to provide itself with the best AWACS aircraft, and we are literally “tortured” with the A-100, pushing back its implementation.

                In this regard, it is interesting to know whether there is any prospect of mastering solid-state microwave electronics in Russia to the level required for Premiere? Let's start with the fact that in the domestic scientific literature in recent years there have been many reports on the success of the development of GaAs and GaN devices, but at the same time there is a huge gap in characteristics between laboratory samples and serial devices.

                Roughly speaking, designers and designers do not keep up with the "academicians", and the latter have to puzzle over the simplification of production, as much as possible. When they say that we do not produce nanoheterostructures based on gallium arsenide at all, this is not true.

                At least in Russia there are two sites where GaAs wafers are produced, although using imported equipment. According to the plans, somewhere in 2023, manufacturers promise to close the “gaps” in the small-scale production of solid-state microwave electronics. Perhaps that is why the commissioning of the A-100 is scheduled for 2024.

                Why did you wake up so late? This, as they say, to Chubais! It was he who talked a lot about the benefits of the international distribution of labor. We give them raw materials, they give us electronics. The article “Status and Prospects of the Russian and World Gallium Market” by Larichkin et al. states that “Russia’s demand for gallium in 2015 was estimated at 8–10 tons per year (nothing at all).” And it is explained why “currently modern devices (computers, mobile phones, television and radio equipment, etc.) are imported.”

                And since everything is imported, it means that technologies are not developing, while in the USA, Germany, China, Japan and other countries, state planning actually took place. Many American companies in the development of solid-state microwave electronics were stupidly financed through military orders, although the same Yankees could easily buy Taiwanese or Japanese microcircuits.
                1. Mountain shooter
                  Mountain shooter 15 February 2022 12: 52
                  -2
                  The author of the article has no information at all. Believe in the printed word. This infa is CLOSED, fortunately, most of these developments go as special products and infa about this is a minimum of chipboard.
                2. Momento
                  Momento 15 February 2022 17: 24
                  0
                  GaN is in every 5G smartphone.
                  the delay with 5G was due to the fact that the output of good GaN-based transmitters was in the region of 20%. as a result, there the radar turned out at a cost like half a berk. but a couple of years ago, they managed to raise the yield of good microcircuits to 80%, and the technology began to rapidly become cheaper.
                  GaN-based transmitters are now quite massively installed on 5G base stations. and predict that the cost will fall in the next year.
                  we have zero experience with both GaN and GaAs technologies. and hence the lag, but now that the technologies have gone into mass commercial use, there is a chance to quickly introduce all this and catch up with the conditional enemy)
                3. Zoldat_A
                  Zoldat_A 16 February 2022 02: 05
                  0
                  Quote: UGM159
                  Perhaps Russia will have to rely on the Soviet AWACS A-50 for a long time to come, although the machine is certainly outdated.

                  Don’t you suspect, a fan of Boeing and American technologies, that we will start shooting down Boeings with their latest AFARs on the hopelessly outdated AWACS A-50?
                  According to the text of the comments, I feel that you did not serve in the Soviet Army. If they served, they would have seen enough miracles. Sometimes even contrary to the laws of physics.

                  Oh, this is the "Pepsi generation" to me ... They will pick up the tops from the American "we are the best of all." And they themselves did not read A.N. Ostrovsky - "boring, long and uninformative" ...
                  1. Zoldat_A
                    Zoldat_A 16 February 2022 04: 22
                    0
                    Admins "on figs" notice and immediately banned. A what ukrobot woke up, and, without reading, I put down "minuses" in the profile - this is normal. Which is expressly prohibited by the Rules of the site. I don't care about those "cons", but here, at VO, I'm used to - if "Minus" - then the person does not agree with my opinion. Let him explain. An example is Israeli colleagues. They do not hide, fight back to the last. AND THESE - NAS.RAL and ran away.

                    When there are “minuses” in the profile, without reading, except for the Khokhloselyan malice, I can’t explain this with anything other than my frank anti-Khokhlat position (not against people, but against their Bandera-fascist power).

                    Question for admins - everyone has "personalists" - skakuases. Maybe close access to the personal page? So that people do not have "minuses" for the sake of "minuses". Without reading, skakuasovsky, in a row for all the comments.
          2. Sailor
            Sailor 15 February 2022 13: 20
            +1
            Virtually there, but not on planes. Even the promised modernization of the SU-30SM2 turned out to be cut down, neither the AL 41 engine, nor the IRBIS, but as they assured! I don’t know yet about the SU-34, they also wanted to put “41”, but I think they won’t do it here either, they will cut down the modernization even more.
      2. UGM159
        UGM159 15 February 2022 09: 53
        +1
        The WS-10B's assigned resource is now 4000 hours
        https://www.sohu.com/a/379095580_100228920
        涡扇10B是中国涡扇10A发动机的改进型,最大推力14.5吨,相比涡扇10A提升13.7%,涡扇10B的使用寿命4000小时

        据悉涡扇10B的推力相比AL-31F提升14%,使用寿命更是AL-31F的4倍,所以涡扇10B的关键数据强于AL-31F发动机,作为歼10系列战机的原版动力系统,AL-31F可以逐渐退居幕后了
      3. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 15 February 2022 18: 26
        -1
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        and the engine could at least copy?

        Could not copy. Now there is loot - they will buy it. A couple of engines and production technology. There is no KGB, the FSB does not catch mice. It flows from every crack...
        1. Repellent
          Repellent 15 February 2022 18: 34
          +2
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          Now there is loot - they will buy it. A couple of engines

          It is quite possible.

          Quote: Zoldat_A
          and production technology

          But this is unlikely.
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 15 February 2022 18: 48
            -1
            They will sell ... Not at the state level - with a license and other bells and whistles. No. At the MNS level. The bastards in our design bureau divorced immeasurably with the abolition of the "first department". Moreover, containers with microfilm ("TASS is authorized to declare", "Resident's mistake") are irrelevant when there are smartphones and the Internet.
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 15 February 2022 18: 58
              +1
              Quote: Zoldat_A
              They will sell ... Not at the state level - with a license and other bells and whistles. No.

              It is very difficult. There is the technology of growing single-crystal blades, and the technology of multilayer heat-resistant coatings for blades, a set of installations for all this ...
            2. Repellent
              Repellent 15 February 2022 18: 58
              +2
              Quote: Zoldat_A
              They will sell ... Not at the state level - with a license and other bells and whistles. No. At the MNC level

              Well, still not sold? In addition, "selling technology", in its entirety, "in a box" is a very non-trivial task. And this task is certainly not the "MNS level" hi
              1. Zoldat_A
                Zoldat_A 15 February 2022 19: 21
                -1
                Quote: Repellent
                And this task is certainly not the "MNS level"

                What's the difference? MNS, SNS, project manager? There were always enough of their own, and now, for real loot, even more. But there is no "first section". To fart MNF did not dare without the permission of the "first department".

                There were no accidents at Baikonur while the guys in the same overalls as ours, only clean and with ironed arrows (!) stood behind us and watched us turn the nuts. But the KGB was gone - and rockets fell like grapes in the fall.
                Well, it’s necessary - fasten the stabilization sensor on four bolts with a 180-degree turn! Where are the military representatives, where are the "guys in clean overalls with arrows"?
      4. PROXOR
        PROXOR 16 February 2022 12: 34
        -2
        One way or another, with its own developed metallurgical base, it will be able to produce heat-resistant turbine blades. And then they definitely won't need our AL-31F. They will make their own engine and it is not a fact that it will be inferior to our AL-41F or product 30.
        The question is different. China, having a first-class glider, can cram what they need into it. Engines that will be more powerful than our AL-31F with thrust vector control, AFAR, first-class electronics, our own ammunition, a helmet with an additional display that will display all the information.
        And our thieving military generals order fighters from radar to PFAR. Our most powerful 4th generation fighter carries the PFAR. The Chinese are stuffing AFAR.
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 16 February 2022 13: 20
          0
          Quote: PROXOR
          One way or another, with its own developed metallurgical base, it will be able to produce heat-resistant turbine blades. And then they definitely won't need our AL-31F. They will make their own engine and it’s not a fact that it will be inferior to our AL-41F or product 30

          What won't they do? You have not encountered the peculiarities of the work of Chinese research institutes. And there are NOT SCIENTISTS in charge. And party functionaries! And the competition between research institutes from different provinces. And the inconsistency of scientific and technical terminology in these research institutes. The same term - different hieroglyphs. in various research institutes. And the work is complex. So how is it? This is really a lot of things to change! And from top to bottom.
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR 16 February 2022 14: 38
            -1
            Ours created their engines not from scratch, but from English Rose Royce and German Jumo. Yes, no one argues that Russian people are much more creative natures and the right organizers. But the Chinese work like ants or bees. By sorting through the compositions they will reach. There is one thing that bothers me about this whole story. We also have AFAR. Why the hell is she not on the Su-30 and Su-35?
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 16 February 2022 15: 34
              0
              Quote: PROXOR
              We also have AFAR. Why the hell is she not on the Su-30 and Su-35?

              There is. But the radars on the Su are quite sensitive and long-range ... And I’m not sure that they are no longer in the right place ... wassat

              The radiator with a peak power of 20 kW as part of the PFAR makes the Irbis the most powerful radar control system in the world [6].

              Advantages of the Irbis radar: large PAA gain, minimal losses in paths, digital signal processing with accumulation, as well as a powerful 5 kW amplifier. A two-stage hydraulic drive allows you to change the vertical polarization to horizontal, to improve the visibility of surface targets and counteract active enemy interference. Increased viewing angle 2 times - 120 degrees versus 60 for AFAR, within a scan of 60 degrees, the Irbis radar has no potential drop, antenna rotation avoids disruption of the input signal coherence [5]

              The assigned resource is not less than 6000 hours, 30 years.
              MTBF and service life - 1500 hours, 12 years.
              Average repair time is no more than 30 minutes. [2]
              The radar provides target detection in all weather conditions in the presence of natural and organized interference.
              1. PROXOR
                PROXOR 16 February 2022 16: 08
                -1
                So AFAR is not for range. This is the speed of detection and versatility, as well as noise immunity.
                1. Hexenmeister
                  Hexenmeister 16 February 2022 17: 16
                  -1
                  This is the detection rate ... noise immunity.
                  For what? Only without slogans, namely technology!
                2. Mountain shooter
                  Mountain shooter 16 February 2022 17: 38
                  0
                  Quote: PROXOR
                  So AFAR is not for range. This is the speed of detection and versatility, as well as noise immunity

                  Have you read the parameters of our station? What's wrong there?
  2. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 15 February 2022 08: 18
    +4
    Well Duc, and ours do not stand still. Su35 is also not at all the same as Su27, although it is similar. Yes, and Su30SM2.
    1. Morglenn
      Morglenn 15 February 2022 12: 26
      +1
      Well, the Su-30SM2 AFAR is never equipped. The Su-35 too. So they are completely marking time.
  3. APASUS
    APASUS 15 February 2022 08: 56
    +4
    The Su-27 has already been discontinued, it is logical that China began to modernize them. I would understand the comparison of the Su-35 and J-11D, but it is not logical to compare obsolete models with contemporaries.
  4. 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 15 February 2022 09: 07
    +5
    Interestingly, will Sukhoi 4th generation aircraft be upgraded with new instruments and engines from the Su57?
    How can we do something from the MiG29 / 35 so that it is at the level ....
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 15 February 2022 12: 32
      -1
      Quote: 75Sergey
      Interestingly, will Sukhoi 4th generation aircraft be upgraded with new instruments and engines from the Su57?

      Yes, like already.
      True, not from the Su57, but from the Su35.
      Well, at least that.
      Moreover, there is no new engine for the Su57 yet, nor AFARs in commercial quantities.
      do something from the MiG29 / 35 so that it is at the level ....
      like be, Mig35 is what they could do from Mig29. True, the level is not very clear.