Military Review

Ex-Foreign Minister of Ukraine: Ukrainians want to join Europe, not become part of the Russian world

111

Putin cannot find a common language with Ukraine. After all, Ukrainians want to join Europe, and not become part of the Russian world.


This opinion was expressed by the director of the Kiev Security Forum and former Foreign Minister of Ukraine Daniil Lubkivsky (Lubkovsky) in his article published by the American magazine The National Interest.

He believes that the future of his country is very vague. According to the former diplomat, Russian President Vladimir Putin seeks to subjugate Ukraine. Kiev will not be able to resist its alleged claims on its own, and the West may not stand up for it.

The author accuses the Russian leader of revisionism, that is, of striving to restore the Soviet "empire". According to Lubkivsky, such a “Russian idea”, which implies the return of the former republics of the USSR under the “hand of Moscow” to a single state, contradicts the aspirations of the Ukrainian people. Therefore, the former minister claims, Putin is deploying troops on the border of Ukraine and threatening it. weapons.


For some unknown reason, Lubkivsky considers Ukraine worthy of being accepted into the family of European nations.

The country is returning to the world history and takes its rightful place in Europe ... We need independence, we want to be part of Europe, not a pawn of Putin

- he writes.

From all this, Lubkivsky concludes that Ukraine should under no circumstances refuse to join NATO and the European Union. As if someone is calling her there ...
Author:
Photos used:
https://www.facebook.com/danylo.lubkivsky
111 comments
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  1. Sergei Zabelin
    Sergei Zabelin 12 February 2022 14: 47
    +16
    I forgot about panties, lace panties for greater persuasiveness
    1. Machito
      Machito 12 February 2022 14: 52
      +8
      And what did all the Ukrainians gathered for a gay pride parade?
      1. SKVichyakow
        SKVichyakow 12 February 2022 15: 04
        -1
        Quote: Bearded
        And what did all the Ukrainians gathered for a gay pride parade?

        I think if you hold a referendum on accession to the European Union, the people will not support it. And in terms of what they want to join Europe, they are already in Europe, like our half of the country.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 12 February 2022 16: 32
          +3
          For some unknown reason, Lubkivsky considers Ukraine worthy of being accepted into the family of European nations.

          What is incomprehensible here?

          REFERENCE
          Lubkivsky Daniil Romanovich (46 years old), born in 1975 in Lvov, Ukrainian SSR, USSR
          In 1998 he graduated from the Faculty of International Relations of the Ivan Franko University of Lviv. Fluent in English and Czech.


          Older brother Lubkivsky Markiyan Romanovich (Former adviser to the head of the SBU, under the CIA agent Nalivaichenko) was born in 1971 in Lvov.
          In 1993 he graduated from Ivan Franko Lviv State University (Faculty of Philology, Slavic Languages ​​and Literature). Speaks English, Croatian, Serbian, Polish.

          Father Roman Maryanovich Lubkivsky - Soviet and Ukrainian writer, statesman and public figure, Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary Ambassador of Ukraine.
          BIOGRAPHY
          Roman Maryanovich Lubkivsky (born August 10, 1941, Ostrovets village, Terebovlya district, Ternopil region, Ukrainian SSR.
          1958 - graduated from Terebovlya secondary school.
          In 1963 - graduated from the philological faculty of Lviv University.
          He worked as an editor at the Lviv publishing house Kamenyar. Served in the Soviet army. He was deputy chief editor of the Lviv literary magazine Zhovten (from 1990 - Dzvin). Since 1976 - Member of the Writers' Union of Ukraine. In 1976 - as part of the delegation of the Ukrainian SSR, he took part in the work of the XXII session of the UN General Assembly. In 1980-1992 - headed the Lviv organization of the Writers' Union of Ukraine
          Died: October 23, 2015 (age 74), Lviv, Ukraine
          1. krot
            krot 13 February 2022 09: 20
            +2
            Do the Sumerians still have "stars in their eyes" from the promises of the Anglo-Saxons? laughing
            What kind of nature is it, if only to sell at a higher price and it doesn’t matter what the fraternal people are selling to the enemy ..
          2. Oleg-Monino
            Oleg-Monino 13 February 2022 18: 24
            +1
            Thanks for the detailed answer. And I think who the hell is this? This is the first time I hear this name.
        2. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 12 February 2022 21: 21
          +3
          I think some will want to go to Europe, some to Russia, but practically no one wants to stay in Ukraine.
          1. avg
            avg 13 February 2022 11: 50
            +2
            They constantly have problems with logic - they want independence, they don't want to be a pawn, but they want to join NATO. Whom, queen or what?
        3. victor50
          victor50 13 February 2022 11: 24
          -1
          Quote: SKVichyakow
          I think if you hold a referendum on accession to the European Union, the people will not support it.

          And where is the president, who did not want (pretended) to the EU. How much can you wishful thinking? What is the attraction in the modern Russian Federation? Even those whom the EU, together with the US, bombed, prefer to strive for the EU. Even our current allies seem to be flirting with the West. The people would not support... Yeah... Young people are leaving our country, and there... They are jumping with happiness when they are allowed to lick the European ass. And being in such an unattractive position, they consider themselves a member of the European family.
        4. Alekseev
          Alekseev 13 February 2022 12: 53
          0
          "... if a referendum is held..."
          That, the statute is clearly obvious: part of the inhabitants do not "want" the Russian world and they live in the west and, in part, in the center of the independent. And in the southeast there are relatively few of them.
          So it is necessary to share territorially, peacefully, as, for example, the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Here is an example of the Europeans how to do it, and not to destroy people and die themselves.
          Let's hope that this simple truth will reach the powerful banderlogs and the peresitsky hulks who have stuck to them or will be hammered into their heads before they provoke a war with numerous victims and, possibly, grave consequences for the whole world.




          1. SKVichyakow
            SKVichyakow 13 February 2022 14: 12
            0
            Quote: Alekseev
            "... if a referendum is held..."
            That, the statute is clearly obvious: part of the inhabitants do not "want" the Russian world and they live in the west and, in part, in the center of the independent. And in the southeast there are relatively few of them.
            So it is necessary to share territorially, peacefully, as, for example, the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Here is an example of the Europeans how to do it, and not to destroy people and die themselves.
            Let's hope that this simple truth will reach the powerful banderlogs and the peresitsky hulks who have stuck to them or will be hammered into their heads before they provoke a war with numerous victims and, possibly, grave consequences for the whole world.

            They cling to the LDNR, it won’t reach.
      2. fruc
        fruc 12 February 2022 15: 54
        +6
        Bearded man: And why did all Ukrainians gather for a gay pride parade?

        It looks like some part, yes. Ukraine goes out of its way to demonstrate European values ​​(Russophobia, tolerance, neo-fascism, and LGBT and sexual minorities too), if only they were stuck somewhere in European structures. They themselves (the ruling class and horses) did not achieve anything and only aggravated the situation inside the country. Well, if they want to get away from the Russian world, I don’t mind at all, just let them return to this Russian world everything that the Russian world gave them, which does not belong to them by right.
        According to Lubkivsky, such a “Russian idea”, which implies the return of the former republics of the USSR under the “hand of Moscow” to a single state, contradicts the aspirations of the Ukrainian people.

        Good riddance ..... To live with these Bandera shortcomings together, I think it's superfluous.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Timon2155
      Timon2155 12 February 2022 14: 58
      +20
      That's interesting: did he do a survey among Ukrainians? At least a few million interviewed? Oh no? Then it's just his opinion. So why the hell is he making statements on behalf of Ukrainians? Who authorized him? Empty call and balabol!
      PS: Oh! The cons are gone! Apparently, the minusers consider the opinion of Lubkovsky more important than the opinion of the Ukrainian people)))
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 12 February 2022 15: 34
        +4
        Quote: Timon2155
        O! The cons are gone! Apparently, the minusers consider the opinion of Lubkovsky more important than the opinion of the Ukrainian people)

        Forgetting, “what will Europe do with 36 million hungry people that it doesn’t need”, Europe already takes as many guest workers as it needs, but in order to take the entire population and pay them European salaries, and even pensions and also European ones, the European economy does not sdyuzhit. You can also want a Mercedes, but in reality you will get a rooster.
        1. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 12 February 2022 19: 03
          +1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote: Timon2155
          O! The cons are gone! Apparently, the minusers consider the opinion of Lubkovsky more important than the opinion of the Ukrainian people)

          Forgetting, “what will Europe do with 36 million hungry people that it doesn’t need”, Europe already takes as many guest workers as it needs, but in order to take the entire population and pay them European salaries, and even pensions and also European ones, the European economy does not sdyuzhit. You can also want a Mercedes, but in reality you will get a rooster.
          Europe itself is already shying away from this "gift" like hell from incense, only it cannot declare it loudly. strongly participated in the creation of the myth that Europe is waiting for the Ukrainians. It's no joke, more than 290 billion euros in losses due to the fact that they got involved in sanctions against Russia because of Ukraine. It is now cheaper for them, and taking into account the violent flourishing of the Ukronazis, it is safer to bring this misunderstanding under the war and forget about it like old bast shoes, which they are actively striving for. As long as Banderlogs are in power, Ukraine has no future.
      2. Pravodel
        Pravodel 12 February 2022 15: 47
        +3
        did he do a survey among Ukrainians? At least a few million interviewed?

        Well, why are you asking such hard-to-understand questions for the Ministry of Ukraine?! Their heads are splitting from Russian aggression, and here you are with your own question .. Everything has been decided in the Ministry of Ukraine for a long time: a couple of banderlogs and fools with lace panties announced that they want to join the geyropa, and the Ministry of Ukraine immediately announced that this is the decision of the whole people Ukraine. And all of Ukraine is jumping and striving over the hill like a couple of idiots and brainless fools ..
      3. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 12 February 2022 17: 48
        0
        In Ukraine, such as Lubkovsky, 80-85 percent.
        1. alekc73
          alekc73 13 February 2022 09: 48
          +1
          about 70% are not. Unfortunately, young people are Russophobic and pro-Western. They laugh about the Russian world. They want lace panties and live well.
      4. Incvizitor
        Incvizitor 12 February 2022 21: 24
        +1
        poll did among Ukrainians?
        I spent it in the building of the Verkhovna Rada so as not to go far, at the same time, according to this survey, they found out that Ukrainians live well and salaries are high, and everyone has houses and cars, in general, their life was a success!
    3. nnm
      nnm 12 February 2022 15: 15
      +9
      But something else is interesting - this character was in power not only after the maydaun. Even under Yanukovych, he felt great in power, and so on.
      And all these songs - away from the Russian world, they began to compose a very long time ago and purposefully. And after all, he understands that speaking about how Ukrainians dream of the European Union, he is silent about the fact that no one in the European Union sees them as equals and does not expect them. And the limit of their European aspirations is the war with the Poles for German chamber pots. But he stubbornly continues to tear Ukraine apart and pour into the brains of the Maidan - pensions of 2 euros, salaries of 4 euros, all over the world, and right tomorrow, doing nothing for the development of the country, they will wake up in living conditions like in Switzerland: a minimum of corruption, good roads , chic medicine .... so the Ukrainians "vote" for such a fairy tale about Europe, like that donkey that "votes" for a carrot near its muzzle.
    4. den3080
      den3080 12 February 2022 15: 22
      0
      Yes, just "The Thinker"

      The head is stuffed with some kind of dung.
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 12 February 2022 16: 04
        -1
        Yes, just "The Thinker"

        Well, so ... I washed one Polish sock, now I sit thinking - should I wash the second one? Or should I start erasing Lithuanian already?
    5. Terenin
      Terenin 12 February 2022 16: 03
      +4
      Lubkivsky: Putin cannot find a common language with Ukraine.

      It is unprofessional, as a former employee of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, to make a comparison between a person and a country.
      Then it is necessary to compare Putin's policy with the policy... for example, Zelensky's... and then everything becomes clear.
      Oh, these "svadbamalinovskie" frills chubatenky.
    6. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 12 February 2022 23: 55
      +1
      Quote: Sergei Zabelin
      I forgot about panties, lace panties for greater persuasiveness

      They want to go to Europe. Only Europe DOES NOT WANT them. He wants only a part ... as a cheap labor force ... Well, the market for their goods. But as an equal partner - no.
      But you are not able to believe in it, otherwise the world will collapse, the world so comfortably built in your head ...
    7. The comment was deleted.
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty 12 February 2022 14: 48
    +11
    The point is, return to Russia ALL the RUSSIAN LAND you received, and at least go to the European Union, even a circus tent ... in orderly rows, led by psychiatrists, a gigantic ward number 6 !!! fool fool
    1. Machito
      Machito 12 February 2022 14: 53
      0
      And money? So many years have enjoyed our good. Take everything away and send it naked to Europe for a gay parade. Fresh meat will be welcome there. laughing
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  3. svp67
    svp67 12 February 2022 14: 50
    +2
    It's strange, but do Ukrainians consider themselves a part of Asia? And you should not join, but build a comfortable world for yourself ... and what prevents this from the fact that you speak Russian, read Russian classics and love everything Russian?
  4. 210ox
    210ox 12 February 2022 14: 50
    +7
    Ukraine was in world history? I regularly got stuck in history. In the last two decades.
    1. private person
      private person 12 February 2022 15: 02
      +2
      I regularly got stuck in history. In the last two decades.

      You probably wanted to say two centuries? Either the Turks, or the Poles, all and sundry had a country. And Russia only did what it saved.
      1. Terenin
        Terenin 12 February 2022 16: 09
        +2
        Quote: private person
        And Russia only did what it saved.

        What can you do, request this is a feature of Russia as a Great Empire.
        Well, not the small-town mentality of Russia. No.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 12 February 2022 17: 45
        +1
        During the last two centuries, excluding the 90s Little Russia-Ukrainian SSR has developed quite. So I wasn't wrong. This is when they went under Poland and the Crimean khans, yes. In the history of vlipaoi.
      3. Alexander widerkehr
        Alexander widerkehr 14 February 2022 12: 41
        -2
        Didn't Ukraine hold back the enemy on its territory? If she had gone over to Adolf's side? Then the Soviet soldiers would have gone beyond the Urals.
    2. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 12 February 2022 21: 26
      +1
      This territory was, then under the Swedes, then under the Poles, then under the Germans, and under whom it was not.
  5. japan-k
    japan-k 12 February 2022 14: 56
    +2
    It's hard to disagree with this, of course. BUT !!! only with a little clarification, Europe is good for those who have been plundering Ukraine all these 30 years, all the money left there a long time ago, houses, yachts were bought, citizenship, or visas were made, children study there, etc. And, which is no less important, they will be given political asylum there if the people of Ukraine want to figure it all out and demand the loot back. But at the expense of ordinary Ukrainians, who speak Russian, who have relatives in Russia, friends, work, etc. here they are certainly not in Europe, if they are accepted there, then as a slave force (((((
  6. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 12 February 2022 14: 58
    0
    So let them bring down wholesale from the lands of Russia to their Europe.
  7. knn54
    knn54 12 February 2022 14: 59
    0
    - that is, in an effort to restore the Soviet "empire".
    Romania (România Mare), Poland (Polska od morza do morza), Great/Ancient Hungary (Nagy-Magyarország), as well as Finland, Sweden, Turkey, Japan ...
    And EVERYTHING - at the expense of the territories of the republics of the former USSR. The first three - at the expense of Ukrainian lands
    What does the next "ex" think about this?
  8. ccsr
    ccsr 12 February 2022 15: 01
    +1

    He believes that the future of his country is very vague.
    You can’t argue with this, especially in terms of what borders the Nezalezhnaya will have, and whether there will be one state on the current territory, without Donbass, of course. Svidomo will be torn apart even more if they don’t come to terms with what has already happened in fact.
  9. sen
    sen 12 February 2022 15: 04
    +2
    Ex-Foreign Minister of Ukraine: Ukrainians want to join Europe, not become part of the Russian world

    And they will become a colony from which resources are pumped out. The only reason why Ukraine is now being helped is because it is being used to put pressure on Russia. The United States does not need a "peaceful" Ukraine.
  10. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 12 February 2022 15: 06
    0
    After all, Ukrainians want to join Europe
    So let them join Albania. This is Europe. And the Albanians will be happy, they will open factories for sewing lace panties.
  11. Engineer Schukin
    Engineer Schukin 12 February 2022 15: 11
    +2
    Quote: Timon2155
    That's interesting: did he do a survey among Ukrainians? At least a few million interviewed? Oh no? Then it's just his opinion. So why the hell is he making statements on behalf of Ukrainians? Who authorized him? Empty call and balabol!

    Well, yes, there are a lot of polls on this subject.
    here's the December one:
    60% of Ukrainians want to join NATO
    67% of Ukrainians want to join the EU
    https://lenta.ru/news/2021/12/24/nato_ukraine/

    and it turns out that you are a windbag and balabol.
    Well, purely on the fact of the situation.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 12 February 2022 15: 14
      +4
      There are a lot of polls about this.
      Are there surveys of EU residents on the subject of seeing Ukraine in it?
      1. Motorist
        Motorist 12 February 2022 21: 03
        0
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        Are there surveys of EU residents on the subject of seeing Ukraine in it?

        Say it too! There were no polls on "refugees". Like or dislike, as they say...
    2. Hagen
      Hagen 12 February 2022 15: 27
      +2
      Quote: Engineer Shchukin
      Well, yes, there are a lot of polls on this subject.
      here's the December one:
      60% of Ukrainians want to join NATO
      67% of Ukrainians want to join the EU
      https://lenta.ru/news/2021/12/24/nato_ukraine/
      and it turns out that you are a windbag and balabol.

      Let me note that "well, purely on the fact of the situation" windbag and balabol, first of all, a certain Zelensky V.A., who at one time claimed the presidency, gathered his voters with such statements:
      "KIEV, March 21. /TASS/. Presidential candidate of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky believes that the decision on Ukraine's accession to NATO and the EU should be made by the inhabitants of the country through a referendum....". I would say even more, he acquired his paid post "through deceit or breach of trust." That is, speaking in legal language, Zelensky committed fraud, a criminal offense. Because when he came to power, he did not even try to hold the promised event. From which we can conclude that he deliberately lied during the election period, not planning to fulfill the promise.
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 12 February 2022 15: 13
    0
    Ex-Foreign Minister of Ukraine: Ukrainians want to join Europe, not become part of the Russian world
    . If you don’t try, you won’t know ... however, why does the geyropa still have a bunch of freeloaders? They need a resource base, a zone for selling their goods ...
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 12 February 2022 15: 27
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      Ex-Foreign Minister of Ukraine: Ukrainians want to join Europe, not become part of the Russian world
      . If you don’t try, you won’t know ... however, why does the geyropa still have a bunch of freeloaders? They need a resource base, a zone for selling their goods ...

      Конечно.
      And also in order to buy up competing industries and bankrupt them.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 February 2022 15: 36
        +2
        With production, they managed and so.
        Something really serious, fundamental, the backbone of the Ukrainian economy, and so on its last legs.
        What is necessary to maintain critical life support will not be touched, otherwise the refugees will be trampled uncontrollably.
        Who needs them in geyrop, there are already enough such parasites.
        1. Terenin
          Terenin 12 February 2022 15: 56
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          What is necessary to maintain critical life support will not be touched, otherwise the refugees will be trampled uncontrollably.

          In my opinion, this economic support is largely carried out at the expense of Russia.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 February 2022 16: 21
            +2
            Still, our trade turnover is a plus .... just business, nothing more.
            Nobody feeds them for nothing.
            Of course, if / when they cut everything off, they will find a replacement, but it will obviously be more expensive. And some of our Arkharov business people will be very concerned, they make money there, but they will have to look elsewhere.
            In general, a stick is always double-edged ... although for our state, this is not a stick, so a twig is about nothing.
            1. Terenin
              Terenin 12 February 2022 19: 52
              +3
              Quote: rocket757
              Still, our trade turnover is a plus .... just business, nothing more.
              Nobody feeds them for nothing.
              Of course, if / when they cut everything off, they will find a replacement, but it will obviously be more expensive. And some of our Arkharov business people will be very concerned, they make money there, but they will have to look elsewhere.
              In general, a stick is always double-edged ... although for our state, this is not a stick, so a twig is about nothing.

              Victor, I'm not trying to talk about economic benefits, it goes without saying ... but about the reverse role of sanctions that force (for example, us) to create import substitution.
              Those. we keep our neighbors afloat, but in fact "we give fish, not a fishing rod."
              Or, as we often do, we do it right without expecting it. request
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 12 February 2022 21: 48
                +2
                Gennady, I just stated how it is ...
                there is trade and it is beneficial to both parties.
                What is there and how ... it’s not very interesting, because high-tech products, there, are now nowhere to be taken from. It turns out that the product is simpler, which we do not have enough ...
  13. gla172
    gla172 12 February 2022 15: 16
    +1
    ... A man is sick ... He is very sick ....
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 12 February 2022 15: 29
      +3
      Quote: gla172
      ... A man is sick ... He is very sick ....

      All real doctors are still in Donbass.
  14. Alien From
    Alien From 12 February 2022 15: 17
    +2
    Europe has enough of its hicks above the roof laughing
  15. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 February 2022 15: 18
    +7
    The problem of this, and other singers of Ukrainian independence, in essence, lies in only one thing - not one of them proposes to build Ukraine as a strong and independent state based on its own forces.
    They all talk only about which "family" Ukraine should join - the Russian world or the European one, but that it is necessary to join in order for an outsider to manage everything - they have no doubts about this. That is why the idea of ​​Ukrainian independence looks flawed. Although, theoretically speaking, their geographical location and initial resources made it possible to build quite a decent state
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 13 February 2022 00: 15
      +4
      "none of them proposes to build Ukraine as a strong and independent state relying on its own forces" ///
      ---
      This is a realistic, pragmatic approach.
      Russia and Ukraine have the same problem - 70 years
      socialist state economy.
      Russia tried to cope with this problem on its own.
      And in 30 years it fails the task: an inefficient oligarchic
      semi-state capitalism.
      Pull Russia only foreign exchange earnings from sales of raw materials.
      Ukraine does not have raw materials, but the problems are the same.
      Therefore, Ukrainians are trying to rely on European economic experience
      and European aid. Things are moving slowly, but there is no alternative.
      The sluggish economy of Russia does not inspire them, of course.
      But the successful example of Poland is a kind of hope.
      1. Zippo
        Zippo 13 February 2022 07: 16
        0
        You are funny. No one in Ukrju will subsidize as in Poland, but the Russian Federation and UKREY interacted well. Do not write more nonsense
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 13 February 2022 12: 02
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Russia tried to cope with this problem on its own.
        And in 30 years it fails the task: an inefficient oligarchic
        semi-state capitalism.

        Russia has indeed failed in the task of building an efficient economy, but the reasons you have given are completely wrong.
    2. Alexander Ra
      Alexander Ra 13 February 2022 10: 24
      0
      Strange and not sad, what you said to a large extent about Russia. "Own forces" - the people - are not a support, but a resource, it is not proposed to build life on the basis of the Russian psychotype, but it is. And "an outsider managed everything" - about the IMF for our BR, WTO, WHO, IOC, .. And "the geographical location and initial resources made it quite possible to build a quite decent state" (about the last 30 years). Also, the chimera "Western capitalism + Russian people" is flawed.
      A separate remark: there are Russian people, but what kind of plaster is the “Russian world”? Where and what do you hear about the Vietnamese world, where is German, etc.?
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 13 February 2022 12: 11
        0
        Quote: Alexander Ra
        Strange and not sad, what you said to a large extent about Russia.

        Alas, it is.
        Quote: Alexander Ra
        Also, the chimera "Western capitalism + Russian people" is flawed.

        I will not argue with this, because I do not think that the Western model would suit us. But on the other hand, I want to say that no one built the Western model of capitalism in our country
        Quote: Alexander Ra
        A separate remark: there are Russian people, but what kind of plaster is the “Russian world”? Where and what do you hear about the Vietnamese world, where is German, etc.?

        Normal plaster :))))
        Unlike Vietnam, Germany, etc. Russia is multinational, and in the days of the USSR, many peoples ended up with the Russian people in one state. The Kazakhs could not be called the Russian people, but they lived in one country, despite the fact that the Russians were still the core nation. We can say that in those years the Kazakhs were part of the Russian world.
        Next - today's fragmentation. Belarusians, Ukrainians - do you think they are Russian people, or not? I can give arguments for both.
        Just like Germany at one time was a collection of different duchies. Prussian and Bavarian - are they different people, or one? Well, now Germany has united and it is considered that one. And if it fell apart on the model of the USSR, consider the Bovar and Prussian Germans, or is only one of them worthy of this title?
        Here, in order not to initiate such disputes (generally, from scratch), in one case it is easier to use the "Russian people", in the other - the "Russian world"
  16. beeper
    beeper 12 February 2022 15: 25
    +1
    As a result of two anti-people-anti-constitutional Maidan coups (2004 and 2014), power in "nezalezhnaya" Ukraine was seized by the Nazi Zapadensky Banderva (a rabid Russophobic minority - ideological and genetic heirs of Hitler's toadies-murderers), mercantilely nurtured, completely American-Western-dependent, post-Soviet klepto-oligarchs - " grabbers"!
    Since they (like their colleagues, on deriban and appropriation of our Soviet public property, from the Russian Federation, Belarus and other post-Soviet "independent republics") "store" everything "honestly stolen" in the "bins" of Western hucksters, then their "thieves' estates -destinies" seek to "stake out" in Europe, "under the umbrella of NATO", so as not to "share" with competing neighboring OFPGs!
    The multinational population of the former Ukrainian SSR has all these "multi-vector" mega-thieves "non-alternative European integrators" they never asked where, in the CU-EurAsEC or in the EU, we want to "join"! request
    And somehow Ukrainian residents have NO opportunity to influence the Duremar "quirks" and mercantile "wants" of the authorities (even constitutional, even anti-constitutional - "Maidan") (however, like Russian, Belarusian, Moldovan, Kazakh, Uzbek and others in former republics of the USSR!) - after all, allegedly represented by "spokesmen of the people's will", organized by the intelligence services of the United States and the amerovossal "collective West", the Kiev Banderonazi "Maidan coups" are anti-people in their essence and "orientation"!
  17. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 12 February 2022 15: 26
    +2
    Yes. Get real terms for theft and bribes, pay millions (in dollars / euros) compensation for prof. negligence they want lol
    Storytellers fellow
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 12 February 2022 15: 44
      +3
      Receive real terms for theft and bribes
      They want to study in Germany, be treated in England, and live on welfare in the south of France yes . This is how the life of the European Union was described to me by those Ukrainians with whom I spoke here in London.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 12 February 2022 15: 47
        +2
        At the same time, it is more logical to study in England, be treated in Germany and live on a French pension in Ukraine laughing
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 12 February 2022 15: 53
          +5
          It makes more sense to study in England
          In England, you have to pay for your studies (a state loan and a discount for EU members, but still the soul of a Ukrainian does not accept this). French social a pension (not earned) is given only if you are there. And it's warmer there in winter.
          But this is how my Ukrainian acquaintances described my plan for the future, when (not IF belay ) Ukraine will join the EU. Let's pull up relatives, together as a big family we will get a house here - and we will fellow
          One even gave me - you have citizenship, why do you work? Something like this.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 12 February 2022 20: 26
            +2
            laughing
            Familiar! Yes, studying in Germany is free.
      2. VORON538
        VORON538 12 February 2022 16: 06
        +1
        Is it part of their plans to work for their Wishlist, or should France pay for all of the above with independent benefits :)))? The French, I think, will not be happy with such "Europeans from the East" :)))
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 12 February 2022 16: 08
          +3
          One even gave me - you have citizenship, why do you work?
          Here is their attitude to work in one sentence. They work if they don’t give a freebie, because they are illegal. For what I bought, for that I sell. I myself was very surprised when I heard this many times, and often from generally intelligent people (with V / O, not shepherds).
  18. saygon66
    saygon66 12 February 2022 15: 27
    +3
    - And they are still determined to make Europe fall in love with Ukraine...
    - The situation can be describedаbe the slogan that flickered at the protests of migrants in France:
    "France (please substitute)! We'll fuck you until you love us!"
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 12 February 2022 16: 02
      +3
      ate you until you love us!
      "Let's enter Europe as far as the Netherlands", as almost Europeans themselves say laughing
      1. saygon66
        saygon66 12 February 2022 16: 09
        +1
        - Reality is full of paradoxes! smile Fight with Russia (which is not Europe) for the right to become part of Europe! It would be more logical to conquer this very Europe - and it's in the bag!
  19. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 12 February 2022 15: 28
    +2
    The country is returning to world history and taking its rightful place in Europe ... We need independence, we want to be part of Europe
    And when Little Russia was part of Europe, when they were slaves of Lithuania and Poland, or when Charles XII stood near Poltava, or maybe they forgot that it was Russia?
    But in any case, joining Europe, it will be like a rainy day for Europe, worse than the Mongol-Tatar invasion. Europe is not waiting for you, in any form, as a state.
    1. Gardener91
      Gardener91 12 February 2022 15: 34
      +2
      Quote: tihonmarine
      Europe is not waiting for you, in any form, as a state.

      Current in the form of a cheap slave. Such a state of Ukraine suits Europe very much.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 12 February 2022 16: 47
        +2
        Quote: Gardener91
        Such a state of Ukraine suits Europe very much.

        That's it, in the form in which it exists. Without them, "migrant workers" are now hard to manage.
  20. Engineer Schukin
    Engineer Schukin 12 February 2022 15: 29
    -1
    Quote: Hagen
    Quote: Engineer Shchukin
    Well, yes, there are a lot of polls on this subject.
    here's the December one:
    60% of Ukrainians want to join NATO
    67% of Ukrainians want to join the EU
    https://lenta.ru/news/2021/12/24/nato_ukraine/
    and it turns out that you are a windbag and balabol.

    Let me note that "well, purely on the fact of the situation" windbag and balabol, first of all, a certain Zelensky V.A., who at one time claimed the presidency, gathered his voters with such statements:
    "KIEV, March 21. /TASS/. Presidential candidate of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky believes that the decision on Ukraine's accession to NATO and the EU should be made by the inhabitants of the country through a referendum....". I would say even more, he acquired his paid post "through deceit or breach of trust." That is, speaking in legal language, Zelensky committed fraud, a criminal offense. Because when he came to power, he did not even try to hold the promised event. From which we can conclude that he deliberately lied during the election period, not planning to fulfill the promise.

    So what, Ukraine joined NATO and the EU already, and did it without a referendum? Where is the logic?
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 12 February 2022 16: 49
      +2
      Quote: Engineer Shchukin
      So what, Ukraine joined NATO and the EU already, and did it without a referendum? Where is the logic?

      Yes, Europe "spit" on their referenda.
  21. Gardener91
    Gardener91 12 February 2022 15: 31
    +1
    No, not a smart man Lubkivsky. Strength in unity.
  22. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 12 February 2022 15: 49
    +1
    Kizduyte. The West will find that instead of food you stuff your mouth.
  23. Kapral Alphych
    Kapral Alphych 12 February 2022 15: 50
    0
    Who wants to join Europe - no one is holding them! Only let the place be freed for the Slavs!
  24. The comment was deleted.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 12 February 2022 16: 54
      +2
      Quote: Basarev
      but the Kremlin maniacs didn’t finish it: you won’t be forced to be nice.

      But the Europeans also realized that "Ukraine will not be forcibly sweet to them," don't forget about this, gentlemen from the square. I live in this Europe, and I know very well and constantly see the attitude of our residents towards you. So hold your horses, it hurts you are already dispersed.
  25. svoroponov
    svoroponov 12 February 2022 16: 10
    +3
    To be honest, Ukraine, as a poor country now, wants to sit on Euro subsidies and cut them. This amount per year is three times more than from pumping gas, based on their population. So what they need is not European Union democracy, but the access of the top to free money.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 12 February 2022 17: 29
      +2
      Quote: svoroponov
      To be honest, Ukraine, as a poor country now, wants to sit on Euro subsidies and cut them. This amount per year is three times more than from pumping gas, based on their population.


      According to the financial plan of the European Commission, in 2021-2022. Poland will receive 18,9 billion euros in direct subsidies.
      So now, in terms of population, Poland can be compared with Ukraine, only in Poland does industry work. And where to get the same billions, or rather 9-10 billion "extra money" in order to subsidize Ukraine. there are simply NO these 10 lards, which means that subsidies to other European countries need to be cut. I think everyone understands with what hatred all subsidized countries will look at Ukraine. Here is a chart of donors and beggars for 2018, I specifically take 2018, where you can see that Germany gives 17 billion, and Britain gave the same amount.
      And who will cover these 17,2 lard, and then Ukraine is "rushing" into the European Union.
      The Ukrainian people minus me, but he does not think "where does Zin's money come from?".
      Well, wouldn't it be time to become a country, and not a laughing stock, and isn't it time to start working and earning money ourselves, and not stand on the European porch with an outstretched bag.

      1. svoroponov
        svoroponov 12 February 2022 20: 17
        0
        Great Britain dropped out and the European Commission seems to have introduced a redistribution there: someone has reduced the amount of subsidies from the funds, and someone will have to unfasten more from what they earn on subsidies.
        In general, the Poles support Ukraine in vain, they will regret it in the future.
        They wanted to deprive the Baltic states, so they threw a cry for deputies, to bite anyone but get subsidies. They have a direct and indirect third of the budget, if not more. They directly admit that without the help of the European Union deductions they are poor and they will not be able to finance anything worthwhile. They have, if not an object, the EU badge on equity (up to 75-80 percent) financing sticks out on a sign next to or on the object. We have already agreed that there will be no subsidies, there is nothing to do in the European Union. By the way, the Poles are also discussing this. So the brace of the European Union is money.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 12 February 2022 20: 38
          +1
          Quote: svoroponov
          They have direct and indirect thirds of the budget, if not more

          In Estonia, I will say - one and a half billion. And Estonia has only 500 lemons of non-payback subsidies.
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 12 February 2022 21: 55
            -3
            More. 6.2 billion in my opinion for 6 (or 7 years) only direct subsidies, and there are also indirect ones, plus military deductions, they practically closed for use in their own country.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 12 February 2022 23: 43
              +1
              Quote: svoroponov
              More. 6.2 billion for my 6 (or 7 years) only direct subsidies

              I don't know, I have information from my friend from the Riigikogu.
              1. svoroponov
                svoroponov 13 February 2022 06: 53
                -1
                Yes, they themselves write this in the press, even acquaintances are not necessary. Read Delphi.
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 13 February 2022 12: 51
                  0
                  Quote: svoroponov
                  Read Delphi.

                  No offense, but it's the same "latrine times".
                  1. svoroponov
                    svoroponov 13 February 2022 19: 04
                    0
                    The information is not secret. Yes, there are other sources. So if we analyze them, then the country's dependence on external injections is higher than Estonian extras indicate. And if you remember the statement of the architect, the cross of freedom, that lying for the benefit of the state is acceptable and deceit with the census in due time, then everything falls into place.
  26. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 12 February 2022 16: 11
    0
    After all, Ukrainians want to join Europe, and not become part of the Russian world.

    They want something, who can argue?

    According to Lubkivsky, such a “Russian idea”, which implies the return of the former republics of the USSR under the “hand of Moscow” to a single state, contradicts the aspirations of the Ukrainian people.

    It is truth too! The "Polish idea", which implies a return to a single state under the "hand of Warsaw" is much more attractive!
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 12 February 2022 17: 40
      +1
      Quote: Vasyan1971
      The "Polish idea", which implies a return to a single state under the "hand of Warsaw" is much more attractive!

      Interesting People Poles and Svidomo, well, they will unite, and then what?
      The European Union will not add Euro subsidies, and there will be twice as many people in this "association". The Poles are not stupid people, they need Eastern Kresy, but for that part of Ukraine called Little Russia.
      1. svoroponov
        svoroponov 12 February 2022 20: 38
        +1
        For Poland, Ukraine is a sales market. In general, there is such a pattern in the European Union. Whoever actively helps to tear the country away from Russia, to that it is given mainly as a sales market. Those socialist countries of the country that joined the European Union first of all went under Germany. Poland took an active part in the Baltic states, the Tribalts basically became its sales market, well and now the Tribalts are trying to tear off Belarus along with Ukraine in order to stake out this market themselves. Their products in Europe are not very quoted. The main trade between themselves in the quadrangle is Poland and Tribaltica. Poland also drives products to Germany, or rather not Poland, but the owners - the Germans to their native country. So this quadrilateral needs a market. Russia practically sent them on an erotic-economic journey on foot.
        The Germans are driving science-intensive products to all countries, and the farther from them, the smaller the volumes.

        The unification of Poland and Ukraine is definitely a civil war between them in the future. They are like single pole magnets.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 12 February 2022 20: 53
          +1
          Quote: svoroponov
          The Tribalts basically became like its sales market, but now

          Something I didn’t notice Polish goods in Tallinn, but there were Chinese brought from Poland. Although the Poles until the early 2000s worked for us at construction sites and on the restoration of old buildings.
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 12 February 2022 21: 36
            -1
            I go shopping and buy everything for myself and for the company. Polish food products, chemistry, knitwear, a lot of different equipment. You just don't pay attention to it. Look at the barcode, they start with 90. Yes, and a lot of Chinese repacking also goes through Poland. They are resourceful guys. Large volumes of raw meat, onions and so on for production.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 12 February 2022 23: 35
              +2
              Quote: svoroponov
              I go shopping and buy everything for myself and for the company. Polish food products, chemistry, knitwear, a lot of different equipment.

              Well, Estonia has never had Polish products, almost all of its own, Latvian, Lithuanian and very few Finnish, Swedish. Any alcohol, of course. Everything else is European, there is also Chinese. There are many Polish and German products in Kaliningrad, but the quality is good.
  27. Engineer Schukin
    Engineer Schukin 12 February 2022 16: 30
    -6
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    none of them proposes to build Ukraine as a strong and independent state based on its own forces.

    how is it independent?
    does this mean the policy of two chairs?
    or independent means absolutely pro-Russian.

    Is Belarus an independent country or completely dependent on Russia?
  28. ERsytype
    ERsytype 12 February 2022 16: 49
    -9
    In fact, everything is simple here. If there is an invasion by the Russian Federation and NATO troops do not intervene, then Russia will most likely take all the Russian-speaking regions, despite the impressive sanctions. But much will also depend on the Ukrainian army. If they bite the bit, they will resist, as it was at the Donetsk airport (no matter what anyone says, there was clearly a Russian persistent spirit there). And the Ukrainian-speaking regions will become the only Ukraine with subsequent entry into the EU and NATO.
    But there may still be the participation of NATO aviation under the guise of "Ihtamnets" and other branches of the armed forces. As the Americans decide, so they will do. While everything is cloudy.
    But personally, I really do not want to live in a country with Chechen and Central Asian arbitrariness. Somehow, in Ukraine, I feel calmer, here at least there are all around Slavic faces and dialect, I am among my own.
    1. Normann
      Normann 12 February 2022 17: 25
      0
      Is the Reich not there? oh, sorry, I mixed it up with Estonia, but, although not ...
    2. svoroponov
      svoroponov 12 February 2022 21: 45
      -1
      And why don't they bite the bit if they were squeezed at the airport on the floors and underground parking (or basement). They fired back, and the constant attacks of the Ukronatsiks from outside did not allow them to finish off. And the task of quickly taking this concrete fortification by storm and laying down our people, of whom there were not very many, was not a task. Just knocked out slowly and exhausted. On this occasion, there are stories of participants.
      Now imagine that the Donetsk guys would have at least one CBT. Volley and everything, come in and settle down.
  29. sanya_sergant
    sanya_sergant 12 February 2022 17: 01
    +10
    Here are the stupid ones. To be an Anglo-Saxon, one must be born an Anglo-Saxon in Anglo-Saxony.
    And you are Ukraine, and you will remain Ukraine, no matter how much you want to become sirs and peers.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 12 February 2022 20: 47
      +1
      Quote: sanya_sergant
      And you are Ukraine, and you will remain Ukraine, no matter how much you want to become sirs and peers.

      As Ukrainians lived near Poland, the Polish gentry was a gentry, but the Ukrainians could never become at the level of the Polish gentry.
  30. Normann
    Normann 12 February 2022 17: 23
    0
    I wonder if the majority of Ukrainians are aware of it?
  31. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 12 February 2022 20: 04
    +2
    There is no such people-Ukrainian. There are Little Russians and Bandera. And we need to stop this experiment until a serious jam begins.
  32. German_06
    German_06 13 February 2022 00: 25
    +1
    Ukrainians want to join Europe, not become part of the Russian world


    It remains to be determined who the Ukrainians are. Recently, in one of the museums, I saw tools left over from Pope Adolf, with the help of which they determined racial affiliation. Do you think the museum will let the master use it?
    PS
    And why are Ukrainians not interested in the opinion of Europe? Europeans want to join dill?
  33. Uma palata
    Uma palata 13 February 2022 04: 18
    0
    They want to suck, not join.
  34. sgr291158
    sgr291158 13 February 2022 05: 39
    0
    Lubkivsky, go even to geyropu, even to NATO.
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. Prisoner
    Prisoner 13 February 2022 10: 30
    +1
    So it looks like they joined. Now they sip with a full spoon what is generally unnatural to sip. Bon Appetit.
  37. Chief Officer Lom
    Chief Officer Lom 13 February 2022 12: 44
    0
    Let the Ukrainians join in. For this, it is imperative to destroy all Russians who were not lucky enough to be donated by the Soviet leaders to the Ukrainian Republic? When they campaigned about independence, the leaflets promised the Russian population that full equality, 2 languages. Immediately in 91, to declare that Bandera is your hero and all Russians on the lands donated to Ukraine are occupiers who have come in large numbers - delicacy did not allow?
  38. APASUS
    APASUS 13 February 2022 13: 32
    0
    Something tells me that he has a brain tumor ...........
  39. Alexander widerkehr
    Alexander widerkehr 14 February 2022 22: 05
    -2
    A little humor in this difficult time.
    https://ne-np.facebook.com/eldar.brandtey/videos/617515482890718/
  40. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 15 February 2022 12: 09
    0
    Sounds especially good: "The country is returning to world history" laughing
    How can you go back to where you've never been? The country "Ukraine" has never existed either in history or on a map. Only in the nonsense of the current "ukropoistorikov".
  41. German
    German 15 February 2022 13: 33
    0
    The question arises: why not join?