Military Review

Is the epic with the replacement of "Corn" coming to an end?

163

LMS-901 "Baikal" makes its first flight, photo: Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation


Aviation for Russia is of paramount importance. The state, which ranks first in the world in terms of area, is simply forced to rely on air transportation, especially in hard-to-reach and remote areas. All the more surprising is the situation with the state of affairs in the regional Russian aviation. The industry has been dormant for many years.

The aircraft fleet of small regional aviation has largely remained unchanged since the existence of the USSR. Many planes have been flying for more than 30 years, and this is not so bad. Some of the machines used by small aircraft have not been produced for a long time. With others, such as An-24 and An-26, there are difficulties in repair and restoration work due to difficult relations between Russia and Ukraine.

The specifics of the Russian airfield network also leaves its mark. Approximately 80 percent of Russian airfields for small aviation have an unpaved surface, for regional ones - about 60 percent. Based on this alone, neither the developed IL-114, nor the existing Sukhoi Superjet 100, can be considered regional. In the Russian regions, these planes simply will not land anywhere.

So it turns out a vicious circle, when the basis of small and regional aviation is still made up of the surviving An-24 and An-26, and the worker An-2, which has been operated in our country since 1947. In part, the problem was solved by completely localizing in 2018 the production in Russia of the 19-seat multi-purpose twin-engine aircraft L-410, the L 410 UVP-E20 and L 410 NG versions of which are being produced today in Yekaterinburg on the basis of the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA). But with the replacement of the An-2, the situation is more complicated.

Russia has not been able to find a replacement for the An-30 for 2 years


Many people between the ages of 30 and 60 managed to catch the era when "small aircraft" in Russia still flew not only to the most remote villages in the middle of nowhere. In many ways, they were familiar with this aviation precisely from the An-2 worker aircraft, which was actively used both in agriculture and in the national economy, worked on local airlines and was actively used by DOSAAF.


Paratroopers and An-2, photo: wikimedia.org, Igor Dvurekov

Many managed to fly on the An-2 plane on regional routes between cities and villages, which are very long and inconvenient to get to by ordinary ground transport. The aircraft was actively used in the European part of our country. Someone caught the An-2 as the plane from which he jumped with a parachute for the first time in his life. At the same time, the younger the inhabitants of Russia, the less likely they are to meet the An-2 in any form of its use.

Today we are witnessing a paradoxical picture. In a huge country, there is, in fact, only one high-speed railway line between Moscow and St. Petersburg. If even 50-60 years ago residents of Tver, Ryazan or Tula could get to the capital by small aircraft, now they are forced to travel either by road or by train, spending much more time.

Despite all the obviousness and importance of small aircraft for Russia, the work to replace the An-2 in our country is constantly stalling. Several years ago, Kommersant, citing calculations made by the State Research Institute of Civil Aviation, wrote that by 2023, 79 percent of aircraft in general aviation would be out of service.

This is happening in a situation where for residents of 28 Russian settlements, airplanes are the only available mode of transport. In 15 regions of Russia, regional aviation is the main component of the transport system. At the same time, up to 90 percent of the aircraft on these routes are still old An-2s.

Attempts to build a "new" An-2 were made repeatedly


It is obvious to everyone that the An-2 needs to be changed, but this process seems to be resolved only at the moment when the situation with small aircraft becomes truly critical. Serial production of the An-2 in the USSR ceased in 1971. But the roughly 300 aircraft remaining in service are still actively operated in Russia.


Multi-purpose transport aircraft T-101 Grach, photo: wikimedia.org, Alexander Markin

Numerous attempts to replace the An-2 were made many times. At the same time, all these aircraft are similar to each other like twin brothers, including the new LMS-901 Baikal, which first took to the skies in January 2022. Nobody proposed any fundamentally new schemes or unusual technical solutions, if we do not take into account the idea of ​​building a composite aircraft.

The situation is somewhat absurd. The pre-war Soviet project SAM-10 of 1938 in a number of parameters surpassed not only the An-2, but also all options for its replacement. It was a low wing monoplane with good aerodynamics and retractable landing gear. Thanks to this, the speed of the aircraft reached 350 km / h.

The first attempts to replace the An-2 were already made at the very beginning of the 1990s. Then, on an initiative basis, the Roks-Aero enterprise, together with MAPO MiG, created the Russian multi-purpose transport aircraft T-101 Grach. The plane, which took off in 1994, never reached serial production. Moreover, the backlog of assembly kits (20 units) of the T-101 Grach aircraft was purchased by the ASA-Aerodesign company, which was ready to launch a new replacement for the An-2, the Viscount V100 aircraft, on the market. But this project, apparently, ordered a long life.

They swung at our William Shakespeare in Novosibirsk too. The Chaplygin Siberian Aviation Research Institute has been promoting two options since the early 2010s. The first one is as simple as possible - TVS-2MS, which was a remotorized An-2. It was an An-2 variant with a new Honeywell TPE331-12UAN engine running on aviation kerosene.

Is the epic with the replacement of "Corn" coming to an end?
Aircraft Viscount V100, image: oskbes.ru

The second option, like the An-2, was a biplane with the same American Honeywell TPE331-12UAN engine with an 1100 horsepower. with., but with an all-composite body structure made of carbon fiber. The aircraft almost reached serial production, which they wanted to start as early as 2021, but suddenly in 2019, the Ministry of Industry and Trade realized that putting into production a car with an American engine, Russian analogues of which do not exist in nature, and using imported composite materials, is not the best idea in existing realities.

LMS-2 "Baikal" was chosen as a replacement for An-901


Against this background, the LMS-901 Baikal aircraft has been officially designated as a new hope for Russian small aviation. The aircraft is designed as a machine for local airlines and will be able to perform a wide range of aviation tasks, in addition to passenger ones. In the future, it is planned to equip it with a domestic VK-800S turboprop engine with a take-off power of 800 hp. With. Experts doubt that modifications with it will be certified before 2025. Until then, the aircraft, most likely, like the Russian L-410s, will be equipped with the Czech General Electric H80-200 with American roots.

In the future, the aircraft should depend less on imported components, the power plant and the composite materials used should become domestic. It is assumed that the new aircraft should surpass the An-2 in everything. Its cruising speed is declared at the level of 300 km / h (for a classmate Cessna 208, which has been flying since 1982, it is 340 km / h). The maximum flight range is up to 3000 km, with a maximum load of two tons - up to 1500 km. The maximum capacity is 9 passengers.

So far, the following performance characteristics have been announced for the LMS-901 Baikal: maximum takeoff weight - 4800 kg, empty weight - 2040 kg. Wingspan - 16,5 meters, wing area - 28,7 m2, the length of the aircraft is 12,4 meters, the height is 5,5 meters. The claimed takeoff run is 250 meters and the landing run is 230 meters. At the same time, the developers cut the sturgeon and reduced the use of composite materials. The balance between traditional and composite materials should help the aircraft to be used even in difficult conditions, where the dirt strip is a boon.


LMS-901 "Baikal" during the first runs and approaches, photo: uwca.ru/

Of the interesting features that neither competitors nor any aircraft in principle have is the rescue system. It looks ordinary for one person, but extremely unusual for an aircraft weighing under five tons. The plane is planned to be equipped with a parachute. This was told to the journalists of Komsomolskaya Pravda by the developers of the aircraft. The aircraft project commissioned by UZGA was completed at the Moscow Aviation Institute (MAI).

It is planned that the crew will use a parachute if there are no other options to save the situation. In such a situation, the pilot stops the engine, if he is not already up, and starts the rescue system. The parachute system was located in the tail of the aircraft. According to the developers, the main problem was to create a system that would not destroy the aircraft itself at the time of the release of the parachute.

Knowing the whole background with possible replacements for the An-2, it is not the LMS-901 Baikal project itself that causes concern, but how and who will implement it. The cost of one aircraft is estimated at 120 million rubles (about $1,6 million at the current exchange rate). The cost was determined in 2020 prices. Knowing the rate of inflation in Russia, as well as the rise in world prices for everything in the world: from aluminum to timber, one cannot believe the cost of the aircraft laid down by the Russian government at all.

But this, as they say, is not so bad, for the purchase of an aircraft in the state, if it is very necessary, they will find money, but there are already questions with the production itself. The aircraft, which is planned to be fully certified in 2023, is going to be assembled not in Yekaterinburg at UZGA, but at a new plant, which is specially going to be built from scratch in the Komsomolsk TOR in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.


The process of assembling the aircraft LMS-901 "Baikal", photo: Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation

In the Far East, they plan to build an aviation center for regional and unmanned aviation. In 2022-2024, it is planned to build an assembly and testing center here, as well as an aviation training center for the training of flight and technical personnel. Representing the specifics of all Russian construction projects in the Far East (hello to Rogozin and the Vostochny cosmodrome) and taking into account the shortage of labor and serious logistical problems in this region, it becomes alarming in advance for the fate of the next An-2 replacement.
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  1. starpur
    starpur 14 February 2022 18: 07
    +10
    The question for all time: who is to blame? Find out how under the king father: 12 guns without trial.
    1. at84432384
      at84432384 14 February 2022 18: 28
      +34
      Nowadays, such questions are not accepted. The bureaucracy is not responsible for anything.
      1. your1970
        your1970 15 February 2022 12: 53
        +6
        Quote: at84432384
        Nowadays, such questions are not accepted. The bureaucracy is not responsible for anything.

        Everyone forgets about money...
        They write about cows, skydivers, a salon with benches and 20 passengers on An2, and so on ..
        But forget about money...

        In the days of the USSR - if a plane crashed - the state buried it at public expense, put a screw on the grave, gave a pension to the children and that's it ... everything in general ...

        And now we live in another country. The plane flying to Syria with the choir and Dr. Liza crashed. The state paid for the death of military personnel, insurers for the rest.
        From 5 to 7 million....
        After that, the relatives of the victims stated that since the flight was international, they were supposed to 21 млн each of the 90 people and applied to the European Court .. Perhaps they have already won - the articles here were two years ago ...

        And now count on your fingers - the cost of the ticket and the turnover of the boards ..
        To have enough for the purchase of the aircraft, its maintenance and upkeep, the salaries of pilots, the maintenance of sites and their maintenance, dispatchers and a bunch of other costly items ...
        And add here the insurance for 11 people (crew + 9 passengers) + the cost of the insurance of the aircraft itself ...
        And you will get at least 5000 for a ticket with a nose on your shoulder for 300 km .. or even more ..
        And it is not abstract "bureaucrats" who are to blame for this - but the low level of income of the population

        Z.s. below Voyaka writes about Alaska - the cost of insurance for a 2-seater pilot is about 2000 bucks per year. For damage caused through the fault of the pilot / owner
        There are pennies - in our country it cuts the very idea of ​​flying on small aircraft.
  2. Constanty
    Constanty 14 February 2022 18: 16
    +41
    Serial production of the An-2 in the USSR ceased in 1971. But the roughly 300 aircraft remaining in service are still actively operated in Russia.

    Although serial production of the An-2 in the USSR ended in 1971, we must not forget that the aircraft produced in the Polish People's Republic were mainly exported to the USSR. Until 1991, 10 units of this magnificent aircraft were sent from Mielec to the USSR.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 15 February 2022 00: 58
      +9
      Quote: Constanty
      this magnificent aircraft.

      And what wonderful people flew, especially those who went through the school of "chemistry".
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 15 February 2022 09: 29
        +14
        flying to spray fields probably required precision and composure. Unfortunately, I only had the opportunity to jump from this aircraft. Funny - I never landed in it laughing
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 15 February 2022 10: 11
          +8
          Quote: Constanty
          flying to spray fields probably required precision and composure
          Pronounced old schoolthere was a lot to learn
          Quote: Constanty
          Funny - I never landed in it

          Well then I can brag - I even landed once wink I don't remember why the release was canceled lol and yes - just up good
        2. mmaxx
          mmaxx 15 February 2022 15: 39
          +1
          The original way of landing drinks wassat
        3. Alexfly
          Alexfly 15 February 2022 17: 29
          0
          Have the studs never been raked? Weird..
          1. Constanty
            Constanty 15 February 2022 23: 04
            -1
            I do not really understand

            For the entire time of training at the Aeroclub in Katowice-Muchowiec in 1991 (essentially two courses) lasting about 4 months and 24 jumps, there was not a single case of An-2 failure. Yes, starts and jumps were canceled many times, but due to weather conditions (I don’t know how it is now - then not only the weather should have been good, but also forecasts for jumps)
        4. Maxim Shalak
          Maxim Shalak 15 February 2022 21: 16
          -1
          Similarly)))
      2. Babay Atasovich
        Babay Atasovich 16 February 2022 17: 57
        +3
        Quote: Pete Mitchell
        Quote: Constanty
        this magnificent aircraft.

        And what wonderful people flew, especially those who went through the school of "chemistry".

        After chemistry, the belly of the An-2 could be pierced with a finger. And according to PANH, the crew had to sit in the ZK, the second one with a tight gas mask, and keep the car 2 meters above the crop and pull it out "as close as possible to the edge of the field" into stuffiness. So they flew in shorts and T-shirts up to 35-45, while the liver pulled.
    2. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 15 February 2022 06: 09
      +5
      Quote: Constanty
      Although serial production of the An-2 in the USSR ended in 1971, we must not forget that the aircraft produced in the Polish People's Republic were mainly exported to the USSR. Until 1991, 10 units of this magnificent aircraft were sent from Mielec to the USSR

      It turns out, 500 aircraft a year for 20 years !!!
      No, 30 are planned a year, then 50 ... For the country, IMHO, this is very little.
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 15 February 2022 14: 21
        +5
        Our airlines now have less than 100 aircraft of this class. Of course, there is an export potential, but it is difficult to assess it. Well, let it be realistic for another 100 pieces. That is, you can count on the market for such aircraft for 200 pieces. Okay, 300. And that's all. Less than the USSR produced in a year. They won't buy anymore. The USSR had its own market and controlled markets in Eastern Europe, Africa and BV, where aircraft were delivered for a penny or for loyalty. Hence the scale of production. We lost all these markets with the collapse of the union and the socialist camp. They were occupied by the Germans and the Chinese and no one will give them back to us. Hence the realistic forecasts of production - 20-30 pieces per year. Hardly more.
  3. viktortarianik
    viktortarianik 14 February 2022 18: 21
    +11
    Yes, the plane is small and the difficulties are great. And in many respects the fault is the lack of an engine. And what are they going to build in Yekaterinburg at UZGA? After all, squares cannot stand idle.
    1. andr327
      andr327 14 February 2022 18: 32
      +6
      As usual, they will close or repurpose for the production of small bulldozers.
    2. mark1
      mark1 14 February 2022 18: 50
      +4
      Quote: viktortarianik
      And what are they going to build in Yekaterinburg at UZGA?

      TVRS-44
      1. bayard
        bayard 15 February 2022 05: 43
        +4
        Quote: mark1
        TVRS-44

        A good plane if it goes into series. And in order to go, a state program for the development of regional aviation is needed.
        A comprehensive program - like a program for the development of Siberia and the Far East, the Arctic and, in general, the whole of Russia.
        The aircraft theme is realistic. To deforce engines, this is not to reforce for IL-112 \ 114. In this case, fuel consumption will be less, range and capacity are quite acceptable. And for the Ministry of Defense, the FSB, the Ministry of Emergencies, the Navy, such an aircraft is suitable - to replace the An-24.
        But we can fail in the most wonderful thing.
        But there is NO demand and responsibility - they fought for this.
    3. svd-xnumx
      svd-xnumx 14 February 2022 19: 07
      +7
      And what are they going to build in Yekaterinburg at UZGA?
      L410 which he is currently building
    4. Errr
      Errr 14 February 2022 19: 34
      +5
      Quote: viktortarianik
      And what are they going to build in Yekaterinburg at UZGA?
      In particular L-410.
      http://www.uwca.ru/production/proizvodstvo-samoletov/
    5. Nazar
      Nazar 15 February 2022 08: 25
      +3
      viktortarianik - UZGA has never built aircraft. This is an engine repair shop. Somehow, the owners of the UZGA managed to buy out the plant for the production of obsolete aircraft "L" in the Czech Republic, they already wanted to close it there, but decided that it was more profitable to sell it to the Russians. So at UZGA they began to assemble L-ki piece by piece from kits made in the Czech Republic. So no "idle areas" are expected at UZGA.
    6. 2112vda
      2112vda 15 February 2022 08: 46
      +10
      But there will be no engine! In Russia everything is ruled by efficient competent people with economic and sociological education. They don't even understand how gyroplanes fly. Engine design bureaus drag out a miserable existence, these are the ones that are still working. Some of the design bureaus, especially piston ones, are generally overclocked. Young people do not see the point in straining their minds in the field of motor building, everyone wants to be tik-toker bloggers. Everything is strictly according to the precepts of German Oskarovich Gref, the country needs ordinary stupid consumers. Here, until the "fried rooster" pecks at the sciatic nerve of our rulers, nothing will change. Basically, there is an imitation of violent (violent) activity. Remember, under the tsar in Russia, hunting weapons and pistols and revolvers were freely sold. The king was not afraid of his people. After Stalin's death, they began to actively ban everything, light aircraft, personal weapons. What later the CPSU that our democrats are very afraid of their people. There is a reason for this. Aircraft will continue to be developed in order to assimilate budgetary funds and no more.
    7. good
      good 16 February 2022 02: 20
      +1
      The aircraft will be built in the Far East, and the Kazakhs have already entered the project by 20%, probably through them they will bypass problems with imports and exports, if any.
      And the Kazakhs will also get these airplanes. One way or another, you need to go through all the test cycles and finish your engine to mass production, it’s not a problem to mold a plant for a finished project, it’s not a spaceport to build from scratch in a forest without initial infrastructure. And the spaceport is still being built despite all the initial problems. Now the only trouble is money, which is not immediately available for everything.
  4. Basarev
    Basarev 14 February 2022 18: 25
    +30
    Nothing will come of it. You have to decide on the other side. When there will be a rich village where any grandmother can easily afford a ticket - and at the true price, without all the subsidies - then you can think about it. And now it is possible (let's imagine for a minute) to overpower thousands of aircraft, scatter them around the villages - and they will rot there in the first five years, because there is even nothing to serve.
    1. mark1
      mark1 14 February 2022 18: 58
      -2
      Quote: Basarev
      When there will be a rich village where any grandmother can easily afford
      buy a helicopter!
      Enough demagoguery.
    2. SavranP
      SavranP 14 February 2022 20: 38
      +6
      After all, you can count the number of regional airfields. There are 89 regions in Russia, each with 10 to 20 districts. Accordingly, we will get, to the maximum, about 180 airfields in the regional centers. There it is quite possible to make strips with a concrete coating.
      1. zlinn
        zlinn 14 February 2022 22: 42
        +6
        that's it! why fence a civilian all-terrain vehicle, if it is much easier to build not even concrete, but unpaved, but even runways? the aforementioned Cessna 208 flies beautifully from minimally squashed GDP and, moreover, with a comfortable and much safer front landing gear
        1. D16
          D16 15 February 2022 10: 11
          +4
          The Cessna 208 flies beautifully from minimally shaped runways and, moreover, with a comfortable and much safer front landing gear

          I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth, but if they wanted to make a Caravan, they would have done it. But they didn’t want to because the tail strut scheme is, by definition, easier. This is due not only to the weight of the struts, but also to the necessary design of the fuselage power set. That is, with equal strength, an aircraft of such a scheme is lighter, and with equal weight, it is stronger. The weight of the "empty" 901 and 208 is almost equal. This means that the Caravan would not have passed the strength requirements for LMS. In general, this plane is cheating, it’s not for nothing that it is registered only in the Bahamas laughing .
      2. 72jora72
        72jora72 15 February 2022 03: 10
        +1
        Quote: SavranP
        There it is quite possible to make strips with a concrete coating.
        In the North, even under the USSR, they could not solve this issue, so far there are only primers ....
        1. SavranP
          SavranP 15 February 2022 04: 43
          +3
          In Soviet times, aviation flew to almost every chum "in the north". Naturally, building concrete runways was... not aesthetically pleasing. There were concrete runways in Norilsk, Amderma, Vorkuta, Magadan... And in Turukhansk, Severoeniseysk, for example, there were runways left over from the war covered with perforated metal sheets. The metal is very durable and doesn't rust or shatter. There were proposals: to build overpass strips on piles buried in the ground for tens of meters. Recognized not timely.
          1. 72jora72
            72jora72 15 February 2022 05: 24
            +7
            In Soviet times, aviation flew to almost every chum "in the north".
            For example, in order to take my family on vacation to the "mainland" this year, I first need to get to Magadan, only AN-24 flies, the ticket costs 39 thousand (fly 1 hour 50 minutes). You can’t get there by any other transport, only aviation .....
      3. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 15 February 2022 09: 21
        +3
        After all, you can count the number of regional airfields. There are 89 regions in Russia, each with 10 to 20 districts. Accordingly, we will get, to the maximum, about 180 airfields in the regional centers. There it is quite possible to make strips with a concrete coating.

        Well, according to the map, it's something like this ...
        But in fact, in the North, there is a landing strip in every village.
        But if already in Stavropol, not every village has an outpatient clinic / clinic, a doctor and a medical service car! It's scary to imagine what's going on in the villages in the regions, where everything was put even cooler !!!
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 14 February 2022 22: 50
      +3
      "When there will be a rich village where any grandmother can easily afford a ticket" ///
      ----
      Not a ticket, but your plane.
      There are such rich villages in the States. in rural areas.
      From each house - the road to several runways.
      Almost everyone has their own planes.
      They fly to the district supermarket once a week,
      not driving a car.
      1. 72jora72
        72jora72 15 February 2022 03: 26
        +7
        There are such rich villages in the States. in rural areas.
        I can’t say about all the states, but when I was in Alaska (Nome, Anchorage), I was struck by the number of small planes (2, 4) local ..... There are not just a lot of them, they are everywhere (and the runways are almost all concrete).

        PiSi. Unlearn to become a pilot, 2-3 months ........
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 15 February 2022 15: 44
          +3
          Everything is subsidized in Alaska. Buy your own plane. And the network of airfields is purely unprofitable. It is necessary, so do not care. For some reason they know how to count money in a different way.
      2. Cottodraton
        Cottodraton 15 February 2022 03: 36
        -2
        Too subtle, many will take it at face value
      3. Nazar
        Nazar 15 February 2022 08: 38
        +7
        voyaka uh - In the Russian Federation, the very formulation of the question - "when there will be a rich village" - is meaningless, because in the foreseeable future there may not be any small settlements in the country at all. . With such a policy of the Russian authorities, small aircraft in our country will not be needed at all. "Outback" will die out before Manturov and others like him will be born as a serial aircraft. Over the past year, minus 1 million people and no prerequisites for improving this situation.
        1. Basarev
          Basarev 15 February 2022 08: 56
          0
          There are such rich villages in the States. in rural areas.
          From each house - the road to several runways.

          This is precisely the normal attitude towards small aircraft. Quite seriously, Alaska is an example for Russia.
  5. Alien From
    Alien From 14 February 2022 18: 29
    0
    I agree with the author 100% here.
  6. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 14 February 2022 18: 30
    +8
    To declare the end of the epic, we need more years and years of hard work. After all, there is still a series to come, "childhood illnesses", modernization based on the first exploitation ... In general, we will not say "gop", but rather clench our fists tighter.
  7. mark1
    mark1 14 February 2022 18: 40
    -2
    An inferior replacement - a (conditional) cow cannot be transported ... not only people need to be transported, but also goods for local residents ...
    It is necessary to do both LMS and DTS - the niche is large, both will fit.
    1. fa2998
      fa2998 14 February 2022 19: 28
      +15
      Quote: mark1
      It is necessary to do both LMS and DTS - the niche is large, both will fit.

      Of course, the niche is big, but who will fly? This is 100 thousand salaries in Moscow, a loser! In the provinces (they make an airplane for it), a salary of 15-20 thousand is in the order of things.
      Subsidize. And issue, and purchase and flight? request what hi
      1. mark1
        mark1 14 February 2022 19: 57
        -5
        And who (and where) is flying now, he (there) will be (mostly), because there the plane is needed in the first place.
        Do you suffer for the people and the plane from what is in the subject, or do you just hear groans from everywhere?
        I apologize for the harshness.
      2. Dude
        Dude 14 February 2022 20: 26
        +1
        Subsidize. And issue, and purchase and flight?
        Varum would, as they say, and niht?
      3. SavranP
        SavranP 14 February 2022 20: 28
        -1
        We need to change the concept, IMHO. That is, the aircraft must have a load-bearing frame with wings, an engine, landing gear, a pilot's cabin... And a replaceable payload is loaded onto it: a passenger cabin or a cargo container. The aircraft performs either a cargo flight or a passenger flight. Should the logistics be simplified?
        1. Genry
          Genry 15 February 2022 04: 14
          0
          Quote: SavranP
          passenger cabin or cargo container. The aircraft performs either a cargo flight or a passenger flight.

          Who is stopping you from removing the seats in the cabin (all or part) and flying in the desired configuration?!
          1. SavranP
            SavranP 15 February 2022 05: 05
            -2
            What you propose is otherwise called: "neither a candle to God, nor a poker to hell." It will turn out to be a kind of compromise with the worst parameters on both lines. In the option I proposed, the turnover of the aircraft is higher: cargo, like passengers, is prepared in advance; loading / unloading takes a minimum of time. There is the possibility of maneuver, that is, to organize the required number of cargo and / or passenger flights, in a row or apart.
            1. Genry
              Genry 15 February 2022 05: 18
              +2
              Did you even think that you are proposing to carry a container back and forth? And not everywhere these containers can be stored - this is a significant complication and rise in price.
              And you did not say about the complexity of the aircraft design. You will not reduce the weight of the empty - the strength will not allow, but the weight of the container will be added.

              And cargo, even in aviation, is carried on pallets, ... and there are no problems unloading.
              1. SavranP
                SavranP 15 February 2022 05: 51
                -3
                Pallets for IL-76, AN-124, etc. What pallets are in AN-2, AN-24, LMS? A cargo container or a passenger cabin can be loaded vertically (top) or horizontally (sideways). Which method the constructor chooses will be determined during design. When loading from above, it is possible to organize parachute unloading of a cargo container if there is no airfield or landing is not possible. And also, saving passengers in an accident by throwing the passenger cabin on a parachute.
                1. Genry
                  Genry 15 February 2022 07: 10
                  +1
                  Quote: SavranP
                  A cargo container or passenger cabin can be loaded vertically (top) or horizontally (sideways).

                  Do you want to leave the plane without a center section? It's just outstanding....
                  Quote: SavranP
                  And also, saving passengers in an accident by dropping the passenger cabin on a parachute.

                  And the pilots, in your opinion - this is garbage?
                  Baikal has a parachute system option:


                  Quote: SavranP
                  it is possible to organize parachute unloading of a cargo container

                  It's more expensive than a helicopter delivery.
                  1. SavranP
                    SavranP 16 February 2022 04: 17
                    -1
                    "Do you want to leave the plane without a center wing? It's just outstanding ....". It depends on what you call the center section. It looks like designing is not your thing...?
                    "And the pilots, in your opinion - this is garbage?" pilots, of course, have personal parachutes.
                    "It's more expensive than a helicopter delivery." Look at least the cost of an AN-24 flight hour, for example, and MI-8.
                    1. Genry
                      Genry 16 February 2022 07: 08
                      0
                      Quote: SavranP
                      It looks like designing is not your thing...?

                      Oo-oo! I have the honor to talk with Mr. Designer (an engineer or a whole general). Are you related to aviation?
                      Quote: SavranP
                      It depends on what you call the center section.

                      It seems that this is the part to which the wing consoles are attached. I could be wrong, you can explain, especially where you want to place the container.
                      Quote: SavranP
                      pilots, of course, have personal parachutes.

                      Where do civilian pilots use personal parachutes? Are you a fellow from the previous century? So I imagine modern "carriers" in insulated overalls with straps, with parachutes in the back ... - and for days on end.
                      Quote: SavranP
                      Look at least the cost of an AN-24 flight hour, for example, and MI-8.

                      Look at the cost per parachute drop with your container and the possibility of damage to the cargo or the complete loss of everything.
                      And the An-24 can't drop...
    2. Genry
      Genry 15 February 2022 04: 01
      -1
      Quote: mark1
      the (conditional) cow cannot be transported ..

      LMS can transport two cows (2 tons).
      Quote: mark1
      It is necessary to do both LMS and DTS - the niche is large, both will fit.

      DTS, due to its large mass, and, accordingly, voracity, has already lost the competition - they will not take it.
      1. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 15 February 2022 09: 25
        -1
        LMS can transport two cows (2 tons).

        You've seen the movie!
        Even one cow will dismantle an An-2 class aircraft like a cat and a mouse!
        1. Genry
          Genry 15 February 2022 11: 09
          -2
          Quote: VIK1711
          You've seen the movie!

          Are you up for being rude?
          Quote: VIK1711
          Even one cow will dismantle an An-2 class aircraft like a cat and a mouse!

          Did you manage to forget the word "conditional" before the next sentence? The lifespan of a thought is too...
          1. Vikxnumx
            Vikxnumx 16 February 2022 16: 55
            0
            Are you up for being rude?

            Very sharp? It's easy to be rude on the Internet! Urban, however! I've only seen a cow in a picture. Two (2) tons (t) of cargo will fit Four (4) REAL cows (heads of cattle). Only in (I don’t know which one already) the volume of the cargo compartment is not enough ... And this is not counting the packaging!
            Dear Henry! People need to be softer! (With)
            1. Genry
              Genry 16 February 2022 17: 33
              0
              Quote: VIK1711
              It's easy to be rude on the Internet

              You tried - I warned you.
              Quote: VIK1711
              Two (2) tons (t) of cargo will fit Four (4) REAL cows

              They are kinda skinny. Live weight reaches 800 kg. Or are you meat?
              Quote: VIK1711
              And that's not counting the packaging!

              We see the meat.
              Quote: VIK1711
              Dear Henry! People need to be softer!

              Tfu-tfu-tfu. Sorry, I'm not one of those.
  8. g1v2
    g1v2 14 February 2022 18: 44
    +2
    The latest data from the exhibition on the aircraft. Everything is there in fact.
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4482713.html
  9. Pavel57
    Pavel57 14 February 2022 19: 04
    +2
    There are fewer passengers, but there is a parachute.
    1. su25
      su25 14 February 2022 23: 16
      +9
      What's the point of this parachute? According to statistics, most accidents and disasters occur during takeoff and landing, i.e. at low altitudes and speeds. The parachute system is unlikely to have time to work. Another scenario: an engine failure over a forest or water surface - a parachute will not save either, but it will make it impossible to make a controlled descent.
      1. Genry
        Genry 15 February 2022 04: 09
        -1
        Quote: Pavel57
        There are fewer passengers, but there is a parachute.

        9 paks - this is according to modern aviation rules for passenger traffic.
        In the case of a special application, there are no restrictions. For example, in the fire variant, you can add 5 more seats and you will ...

        A parachute is optional.
        It allows you to quickly reduce any of the aircraft speeds and remove restrictions on the flight route with the obligatory presence of landing sites every 40 km.
    2. Nazar
      Nazar 15 February 2022 09: 05
      +1
      Pavel57 - Did you watch the video as at least an UAZ parachute landing? The platform below and on it are solid propellant charges that are triggered at the moment of landing. This miracle of technology is heavier than the UAZ and will need to be completely inadequate. to count on the safe landing of such a piece of iron without brake charges.
  10. vfwfr
    vfwfr 14 February 2022 19: 05
    -5
    Already in the past I wrote ... and I will write again ...
    Stage 1, make new or on old intake manifolds make a hole for auto injectors, or even two .. Fill in AI-98 (take only from the tank farm).
    Stage two: Wheels from the Yak-40 or similar And under the belly an additional tank with methane or propane ...
    1. Dude
      Dude 14 February 2022 20: 27
      +4
      Quote: vfwfr
      Already in the past I wrote ... and I will write again ...
      Stage 1, make new or on old intake manifolds make a hole for auto injectors, or even two .. Fill in AI-98 (take only from the tank farm).
      Stage two: Wheels from the Yak-40 or similar And under the belly an additional tank with methane or propane ...

      I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense.
      1. vfwfr
        vfwfr 14 February 2022 20: 42
        0
        Explain). What exactly?)) (do not write about the cut)
        1. Dude
          Dude 15 February 2022 06: 48
          +2
          Gas tank under the belly? And for landing with selection winked
          And how much will that tank weigh, can you imagine?
          1. vfwfr
            vfwfr 16 February 2022 09: 35
            0
            Well, on a private board) 2 local there are such options as an experiment.
            Now in the 21st century there are other lightweight alloys ... Why choose for the scheduled AN-2 ..
            And yes, the An-2 does not fly high and does not rise rapidly, as I understand it, the difference in atmospheric pressure will not be much and will differ dramatically, therefore, nothing will happen to the balloon.
            In other matters, if I went too far with the balloon, then something is silent about the injector ...
            1. Dude
              Dude 16 February 2022 14: 31
              0
              Taking into account where, at times, the An-2 fly, landing with a selection is quite relevant. Why fence gas on him - I do not really understand. You will have to solve a bunch of issues - lubrication, resistance to burnout, etc. Not all solutions for auto engines can be applied in aviation - different requirements and priorities.
              About the injectors in the intake - probably, you can not delve into the topic.
              1. vfwfr
                vfwfr 16 February 2022 19: 06
                0
                1. Within the framework of obtaining a flight to a long distance at a lower cost of a flight hour.
                2. Dosafa, same reason + paratroopers. the tank can be removed if necessary.
                Within the framework of the Astrakhan and Orenbursk regions, where there is enough gas and delivery will not be a horse price ...
  11. Amateur
    Amateur 14 February 2022 19: 16
    +2
    And why did the author not mention the An-3, a modification of the An-2 with a Russian-made TVD-2 turbojet engine? Forgot or a follower of the "utopians" of this aircraft? recourse
    1. Dude
      Dude 14 February 2022 20: 15
      0
      In general, I’m thinking - does he really need a theater of operations? I understand and know the pros, but there are also cons.
  12. kind
    kind 14 February 2022 19: 17
    +6
    And what prevents the release of the good old AN-2 ??? If he still suits everyone now, just modernize it a little and good luck!
    1. Dude
      Dude 14 February 2022 20: 12
      +11
      Quote: Good
      And what prevents the release of the good old AN-2 ??? If he still suits everyone now, just modernize it a little and good luck!

      This is of little interest. You can cut money on carbon fiber from Japan and engines from the USA / Canada, and the mob should sit at home and not stick out, otherwise, ish you, they decided to fly on airplanes! Tea, not a bar!..
    2. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 15 February 2022 09: 29
      +2
      And what prevents the release of the good old AN-2 ??? If he still suits everyone now, just modernize it a little and good luck!

      But to over the hill what to buy on it? How to pinch off money?
      Wind farms are being built quickly! We need to quickly order all the equipment over the hill until the feeder is covered!
      So it is with small aircraft ...
    3. your1970
      your1970 15 February 2022 11: 58
      0
      Quote: Good
      And what prevents the release of the good old AN-2 ??? If he still suits everyone now, just modernize it a little and good luck!

      There is such a country - Ukraine .... Without its consent - we and the Academy of Sciences cannot do anything at all .....
    4. mmaxx
      mmaxx 15 February 2022 15: 48
      +1
      Now it is a technological disaster. Nobody knows how to build it anymore. Why drag an airplane from the middle of the 20th century into the future.?
      1. ammunition
        ammunition 16 February 2022 07: 42
        +1
        Quote: mmaxx
        Why drag an airplane from the middle of the 20th century into the future.?

        Yes, because this is the "future", much worse than that past.
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 16 February 2022 08: 47
          0
          Better .. Worse ... An-2 is all. And NOBODY will put it into production. These planes were made and bought under the USSR. Now no one will buy it with their own money. At one time, the U-2 was a simple aircraft. In recent times, good people have begun to restore aircraft and make replicas. And it turned out that the labor intensity in the current conditions is space.
    5. ammunition
      ammunition 16 February 2022 07: 40
      0
      Quote: Good
      And what prevents the release of the good old AN-2 ???

      The wiki says that it is still being produced in China. You can buy from them. -))
      1. mmaxx
        mmaxx 16 February 2022 08: 48
        +1
        You can try laughing
  13. fa2998
    fa2998 14 February 2022 19: 20
    +11
    Everyone has their own tastes, but in my opinion, the plane is ugly. The old plywood biplane is even pretty.
    But if you look at the prices of these devices, then "Corn" is generally a star. hi
    1. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 14 February 2022 22: 04
      +2
      Quote: fa2998
      Everyone has their own tastes, but in my opinion, the plane is ugly. The old plywood biplane is even pretty.
      But if you look at the prices of these devices, then "Corn" is generally a star. hi

      It's not even that, but the fact that the old AN-2 is a workaholic aircraft. And "Baikal" is either a minibus plane or a "nurse" plane and a "mail carrier", that's the whole scope. Whereas the Academy of Sciences helped agriculture and forestry. I'm not talking about parachuting.
  14. Avior
    Avior 14 February 2022 19: 22
    +7
    The LMS-901 "Baikal" project is a kind of mixture of a folk "maize" and an elite business jet.
    According to the layout of the chassis with the rear wheel, it’s quite a “maize” of the 40s of the last century.
    And by the fact that the designers have incorporated the possibility of a twin-engine power plant in it - the second engine is electric - so this is practically a business class, and the fact that it does not yet have a hybrid power plant, as planned, does not make it a cheap aircraft ....
  15. nonsense
    nonsense 14 February 2022 19: 41
    +5
    IMHO the most important characteristics for such an aircraft is the ability to land on an unprepared runway and ease of maintenance. And what do we see? -- The An-2 has better takeoff and landing characteristics! And this is with a larger mass!
    PS: :) but instead of a theater of operations in such an aircraft, wouldn't it be more correct to put a diesel engine from KAMAZ in it?
    1. Dude
      Dude 14 February 2022 19: 55
      +3
      Quote: nespich
      IMHO the most important characteristics for such an aircraft is the ability to land on an unprepared runway and ease of maintenance. And what do we see? -- The An-2 has better takeoff and landing characteristics! And this is with a larger mass!
      PS: :) but instead of a theater of operations in such an aircraft, wouldn't it be more correct to put a diesel engine from KAMAZ in it?

      Not suitable for security reasons. The timing will have to be redesigned for gears - this is at least. And yes, there are a lot of modifications. Well, and so, the idea of ​​​​plugging a piston engine, and not a theater of operations, has its undoubted advantages.
      1. Oleg812spb
        Oleg812spb 15 February 2022 01: 02
        0
        Better than a diesel...
        1. Dude
          Dude 15 February 2022 06: 51
          0
          Quote: Oleg812spb
          Better than a diesel...

          And what about a diesel engine, not a piston engine? belay
          1. Oleg812spb
            Oleg812spb 15 February 2022 11: 24
            0
            This is a specification. wink
  16. Genry
    Genry 14 February 2022 19: 48
    -3
    Author:
    Quote: ZloyStrelok
    The aircraft, which is planned to be fully certified in 2023, is going to be assembled not in Yekaterinburg at UZGA, but at a new plant, which is specially going to be built from scratch in the Komsomolsk TOR in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

    Lapshin (LMS-901 designer) wrote in a comment on the forum: "structural elements of both flight and static specimens are being made." And what: "the scheme for the distribution of work by units has already been published. All sites, except for KnA, are ready, were involved in the construction of the first side - and there is no reason to change them."
    https://aviaforum.ru/threads/lms-901-bajkal.49175/page-30#post-3183598

    Those. the construction of the plant does not connect the production of LMS-901 in any way.
  17. Dude
    Dude 14 February 2022 19: 52
    +14
    LMS-901 is by no means a replacement for the An-2. This aircraft is being developed as a VIP-taxi for top managers of various resource companies arriving with an inspection in the oil and gas provinces. Hence the parachute rescue system, for the sake of ordinary shift workers and other simple paks from villages and regional centers, no one would bother. Yes, and his other performance characteristics are sharpened, rather, for an expeditionary aircraft, rather than for an ordinary linear cab driver.
  18. Radikal
    Radikal 14 February 2022 20: 23
    +1
    Is the epic with the replacement of "Corn" coming to an end?

    Curious, which one? Piqué, corkscrew...? winked
  19. soul
    soul 14 February 2022 20: 30
    +2
    I did not understand something - how is this
    Part of the problem was solved fully localized in 2018, production in Russia of a 19-seat multi-purpose twin-engine aircraft L-410

    correlates with this
    the aircraft, apparently, like the Russian L-410, will be equipped with the Czech General Electric H80-200 with American roots
  20. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 14 February 2022 20: 43
    +4
    >The first attempts to replace the An-2 were made at the very beginning of the 1990s.

    The first attempts were successfully made much earlier and were called An-3, a turboprop engine and the preservation of a biplane scheme, with refined aerodynamics. And no parachute is needed, so he will plan.

    But, of course, Baikal is better than nothing.
    1. 75 Sergey
      75 Sergey 14 February 2022 21: 06
      +4
      I agree! First flight in 1980.
      And SAM-10 is still a miracle.
  21. 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 14 February 2022 21: 00
    +2
    Aircraft engine building is the Achilles' heel of our aviation.
    1. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 14 February 2022 21: 13
      -1
      So far, but still, the latest news regarding the mass of new engines is encouraging.
  22. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 14 February 2022 21: 20
    +4
    120 million rubles for one aircraft, which is so expensive, an American engine costs so much or a glider that is not made of composite, this aircraft costs a maximum of 40 million rubles, it smacks of a sickly rollback
    1. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 14 February 2022 21: 23
      0
      Unremarkable polymers have long been inexpensive, here, yes, rather an engine, avionics, and, as you rightly noted, the O-word)
  23. Mustached Kok
    Mustached Kok 14 February 2022 21: 39
    +1
    Given the task, we should go from the idea of ​​a monoplane with retractable landing gear and a wing seamlessly integrated into the fuselage. You can build on the legendary Douglas DC-3, but leave the single-engine scheme. Make the wheels on the chassis large, reduced pressure. So you need to find a compromise between the three aircraft: An-2 (simplicity and cheapness of acquisition and operation), douglas DC-3 (service comfort, comfort and flexibility for passengers, high aerodynamic quality, controllability at low speeds) and Pilatus pc-12 ( versatility, successful layout of a monoplane and a pulling turboprop, ease of use both in passenger and cargo versions, the possibility of layout in special aircraft, rescue, medical, mail, fire, etc.).
    1. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 14 February 2022 22: 08
      -1
      Quote: Mustache Cock
      Given the task, we should go from the idea of ​​a monoplane with retractable landing gear and a wing seamlessly integrated into the fuselage. You can build on the legendary Douglas DC-3, but leave the single-engine scheme. Make the wheels on the chassis large, reduced pressure. So you need to find a compromise between the three aircraft: An-2 (simplicity and cheapness of acquisition and operation), douglas DC-3 (service comfort, comfort and flexibility for passengers, high aerodynamic quality, controllability at low speeds) and Pilatus pc-12 ( versatility, successful layout of a monoplane and a pulling turboprop, ease of use both in passenger and cargo versions, the possibility of layout in special aircraft, rescue, medical, mail, fire, etc.).

      Firefighter, etc. remove this excess. "Baikal" is not capable of being, etc. Too fast for that.
  24. senima56
    senima56 14 February 2022 22: 19
    +6
    The "replacement for the legendary AN-2" in aviation is as endless as the "replacement for the legendary PM pistol" in the army! fool hi
  25. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 14 February 2022 22: 37
    +2
    Yes, it's not about the plane, but about the laws.

    Small aviation is so regulated that there is no demand for it. From the fact that the aircraft will be produced, commercial structures will not start buying it.
    1. su25
      su25 14 February 2022 23: 21
      +3
      Even in the Soviet years, international flights were unprofitable and were financed by income from Aeroflot's "large" flights. Today, such a "voluntary redistribution of profits" between different economic entities is difficult to imagine.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 15 February 2022 08: 43
        -1
        Today you can imagine a lot of people who are able to independently buy a small aircraft and use it for their own entertainment or business.

        This is hindered precisely by the fact that the bulk of the cost of an aircraft goes not to fuel and spare parts, but to licenses, permits, duties, and so on.
  26. NSV
    NSV 14 February 2022 23: 33
    0
    Dreams .... will come true!)))) Another ... gravity, from a series of Superjets .... MS .... And you, friends from the Ministry of Industry and Trade, UAC, etc., don’t sit down ..., but apart from cutting state funds .... you are no good for anything !!!! request Freaks, this is if in .... Russian!)))
  27. Curt
    Curt 14 February 2022 23: 49
    +1
    Why a new plant? In Samara, Aviakor is idle - they wanted to collect Ukrainian Anas - it did not grow together.
    In general, in the end, I think everything will be fine. But exorbitantly. and the plane and the plant and tickets for it will be horse. And that way in 10 years. Capitalism, sir
  28. eehnie
    eehnie 14 February 2022 23: 52
    -3
    For aircraft with a maximum takeoff weight of (approximately) 2,2 to 45,6 tons, it was not only the fleets inherited from the Soviet Union that were reduced. Demand has also dropped. Without local demand, real demand not estimated (inflated demand estimates are the first step to failure), it is unlikely that Russian public finances will take on development spending. And the Russian government will succeed.

    Over the past 30-35 years, many Russian small aircraft projects have not been successful for one single reason: lack of demand in civilian markets. I could easily cite more than 30 Russian projects that have not reached and will not reach 50 units in their entire life cycle. Only two projects of civil/utility aircraft in these sizes managed to achieve production of more than 50 units:

    1.-) Yak-130
    2.-) Che-22 Corvette

    Most people don't even know the second one, but it's the same size as the An-2/4/6 and has a total production of about 90 units, 33 years after it first flew. In fact it would have been the most successful An-2/4/6 successor since the fall of the Soviet Union without being an exact clone (L-410 also has the same weight category but earlier and its main success was during the Soviet Union) .

    The main reason for the decline in demand in these weight categories is that helicopters are becoming clearly dominant in civilian markets. New helicopter projects in the same size category rarely face the same problem.

    It may be hard to imagine for the aviation industry, but with helicopters that are more cost effective, the Russian government can also solve the mobility problem at a lower cost.

    The aircraft industry is instead finding more profitable niches in the larger weight classes that helicopters cannot enter. The development of the Su-Superproject and the MS-21 was financially facilitated by the strong interest in them in civilian markets. If these aircraft cannot land on uneven airfields, it makes much more sense to develop an option that can do this and focus on import substitution, instead of continuing to fight in size categories that are almost lost to them due to being mostly unprofitable. .

    (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

    In the referred to the aircrafts between (roughly) 2.2 and 45.6 tons of Maximum Take-Off Weight, not only the fleets inherited from the Soviet Union declined. Also the demand declined. Without a local demand, real demand, not estimated (oversized estimations of the demand are the first step a failure), it is unlikely that the Russian public finances assume the cost of development. And the Russian government will do well.

    In the last 30-35 years lots of Russian projects of small aircraft reached not a success by a single reason: lack of demand in the civil markets. I would be able to cite easily over 30 Russian projects, that reached not and will not reach in their entire cycle of life a production of 50 units. Only two projects of civil/auxiliary aircraft in these size categories succeeded to reach a production over 50 units:

    1.-) Yak-130
    2.-) Che-22 Korvet

    Most of the people even know not the second, but it is of the same size cathegory of the An-2/4/6, and its total production is around 90 units, 33 years after its first flight. In fact this would be the most successfull successor of the An-2/4/6 after the end of the Soviet Union, without being an exact clone (the L-410 is also of the same weight cathegory but is earlier, and its main success was at the time of the Soviet Union).

    The main reason for the decline of the demand in these weight categories is that helicopters become clearly dominant in the civil markets. The projects for new helicopters of the same size categories rarely have the same problem.

    This maybe difficult to assume for the aircraft industry, but with the helicopters, that are economically more profitable, the Russian gouvernment can also solve the problem of mobility, at lower cost.

    The aircraft industry instead, find more profitable niches in the big weight cathegories, were the helicopters can not enter. The development of the Su-Superject and the MS-21 has been easier financially, by the strong interest on them in the civil markets. If these aircraft can not land in rough airfields, it is much smarter the development of a variant that can do it, and to focus on import substitution, instead of to continue fighting in size cathegories that are almost lost for them because of being basically unprofitable .
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 15 February 2022 00: 31
      +3
      Most people don't even know the second one, but it's the same size as the An-2/4/6

      You are joking? The Che-22 has a take-off weight of 750 kg, the An-4 has 5250 kg.
      1. eehnie
        eehnie 15 February 2022 01: 52
        -2
        In airwar.ru, the maximum takeoff weight is 6675 kg.

        But now that you say this, the source may be wrong because other data matches what you said. Sorry if this was a mistake.

        In this case, only the Yak-130 would have managed to reach the 50 units produced over the past 30-35 years, in the range of maximum takeoff weight from 2,1 to 45,6 tons (approximately). This only reinforces my argument.

        (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

        In airwar.ru, Maximum Take-Off Weight is 6675 Kg.

        But now that you say it, the source maybe wrong, because other data is in line with what you said. Sorry if it was a mistake.

        In this case, only the Yak-130 would have succeeded to reach 50 units produced, in the last 30-35 years, in the range of Maximum Take-Off Weight of between 2.1 and 45.6 tons (roughly). It only reinforces my argument.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 15 February 2022 09: 10
          +3
          In this case, only the Yak-130 would have managed to reach the 50 units produced over the past 30-35 years, in the range of maximum takeoff weight from 2,1 to 45,6 tons (approximately). This only reinforces my argument.

          The Yak-130 is a combat training aircraft of the Italian Aermacchi M-346 type and has nothing to do with this topic at all.
          1. eehnie
            eehnie 15 February 2022 15: 25
            -2
            The Yak-130 is an advanced training aircraft for Russia and, as a result, an auxiliary aircraft for Russia, and not a combat aircraft. In the early stages of the project, it was a collaboration with Italy, but despite this, the Yak-130 is a Russian development. That's why I included it. It is clear that there are clear specific details in his appointment that had a clear impact on his success. This is clearly the exception rather than the rule.

            On the other hand, there are a significant number of projects that have managed to fall short of the 50 units produced so far in the past 30-35 years and are unlikely to reach that level of production in the future as real demand has declined. Here is the list:

            In the weight category An-72/71/74, Mi-6/10/22 and Mi-46/AHL:

            1.-) Be-200
            2.-) Yak-44
            3.-) Tu-414

            In the weight category An-24/26/30/32 and Mi-46:

            4.-) Tu-324
            5.-) IL-114
            6.-) IL-112
            7.-) Tu-130/136
            8.-) MiG-110

            In the weight category Yak-130, Mi-8 and Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 families:

            9.-) Yak-48
            10.-) IL-108
            11.-) Su-80
            12.-) Be-112

            In the weight category L-410 and Ka-60/62:

            13.-) Flash-ON
            14.-) M-302
            15.-) M-202
            16.-) TVS 2DTS
            17.-) T-208 Eagle

            In the weight category An-2/4/6 and Mi-Ansat:

            18.-) T-101/130/210
            19.-) T-207
            20.-) M-102
            21.-) Rysachok
            22.-) MiG-125
            23.-) T-115
            24.-) T-440

            And in the weight category Ka-226:

            25.-) T-517 Farmer
            26.-) M-101
            27.-) SR-10
            28.-) CM92
            29.-) M-500
            30.-) T-507
            31.-) T-511 Aist-M
            32.-) LA-8
            33.-) SA-20P
            34.-) Be-103
            35.-) Accord-201

            I have included the An-148/158, An-140, and GM-17, which have so far failed to reach 50 units produced.

            Obviously, this will not go unnoticed by the Russian government. And the Russian government will be prudent and unlikely to assume the development of projects without a serious prospect based on real demand.

            In any case, air mobility in Russia is well-resolved in Russia with solid designs of modern Russian helicopters in every weight category. It is wrong to look at airplanes and helicopters as unrelated markets.

            The fleet of Soviet-made aircraft is clearly declining over time for each model, and if demand for their successors does not recover, it is due to changing customer preferences. The need for air mobility remains, but the need to address it has evolved, and successful projects today are those that are well suited to the current real demand.

            I understand that this may not be obvious to many people right now, and how some companies may try to keep fighting to maintain their former dominance in certain weight classes. Everything that I am explaining will become much more obvious in 3-4 years and will become absolutely clear by the end of 2033, when the development of the current new generation of weapons and support materials can approximately be completed.

            In my opinion, the main problem of all this for Russia is that the development of projects for larger aircraft in weight categories where aircraft dominate the market may be delayed and may not reach mass production by the end of the development period of the current new generation.

            (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

            The Yak-130 is an advanced trainer for Russia, and as a consequence an auxiliary aircraft for Russia, not a combat aircraft. In the early stages of the project it was a collaboration with Italy, but despite it, the Yak-130 is a Russian development. This is why I included it. Obviously, it has clear specific details in its purpose, that had a clear impact in its success. It is clearly more an exception than a rule.

            In the other side, there is an important number of projects that succeeded not reaching 50 units produced until now, in the last 30-35 years, and that are very unlikely to reach this level of production in the future, because the real demand declined . Here is the list:

            In the weight category of the An-72/71/74, Mi-6/10/22 and the Mi-46/AHL:

            1.-) Be-200
            2.-) Yak-44
            3.-) Tu-414

            In the weight category of the An-24/26/30/32 and the Mi-46:

            4.-) Tu-324
            5.-) Il-114
            6.-) Il-112
            7.-) Tu-130/136
            8.-) MiG-110

            In the weight category of the Yak-130, Mi-8 family and the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35:

            9.-) Yak-48
            10.-) Il-108
            11.-) Su-80
            12.-) Be-112

            In the weight category of the L-410 and the Ka-60/62:

            13.-) MiG-AT
            14.-) M-302
            15.-) M-202
            16.-) TVS 2DTS
            17.-) T-208 Eagle

            In the weight category of the An-2/4/6 and the Mi-Ansat:

            18.-) T-101/130/210
            19.-) T-207
            20.-) M-102
            21.-) Rysachok
            22.-) MiG-125
            23.-) T-115
            24.-) T-440

            And in the weight category of the Ka-226:

            25.-) T-517 Farmer
            26.-) GM-17 Viper
            27.-) M-101
            28.-) SR-10
            29.-) SM92
            30.-) M-500
            31.-) T-507
            32.-) T-511 Aist-M
            33.-) LA-8
            34.-) SA-20P
            35.-) Be-103
            36.-) Akkord-201

            I included not the An-148/158, An-140, and the GM-17, that neither succeeded to reach 50 units produced until now.

            Obviously this will not go unnoticed for the Russia gouvernment. And the Russian gouvernment will be prudent, and it is unlikely to assume the development of projects without a serious prospect based on real demand.

            Anyway the air mobility in Russia is well solved in Russia with the presence of solid projects of modern Russian helicopters in every weight category. To look at aircrafts and helicopters like unrelated markets is wrong.

            The fleets of aircrafts of Soviet production are clearly declining with the time for every model, and if the demand of their successors is not recovering is because there is a change in the preference of the customers. The need of air mobility remains, but the demand to solve it has evolved, and the projects that succeed today are those that fit well the current real demand.

            I understand that this may not be evident for many people now, and how some companies can try to coninue fighting to keep their former dominant position in some weight categories. All what I'm explaining will be much more evident in 3 or 4 years, and will be absolutely clear by the end of 2033, when approximately the timeline for the development of the current new generation of armament and auxiliary material can be finished.

            In my opinion, the main problem of all it for Russia, is that the development of the projects of bigger aircrafts, in the weight categories where aircrafts dominate the market, can be delayed, and can fail to reach serial production by the end of the timeline for the development of the current new generation.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 15 February 2022 17: 56
              +2
              It is clear that there are clear, specific details in his appointment that have had a clear impact on his success.

              One detail influenced its success - it is a military aircraft, it has no competitors. Where there is competition, in civil aviation, today Russia simply cannot create a competitive machine.
              1. eehnie
                eehnie 15 February 2022 19: 33
                -1
                Being an auxiliary material for the Russian Armed Forces, I would not be surprised if some non-military force, for example, the National Guard, appears as a customer for the Yak-130.

                There is no reason to believe that Russia cannot design competitive civil/utility aircraft. In fact, there are both new modern projects of aircraft and helicopters, which over the past 30-35 years have managed to achieve production in excess of 50 units:

                Ka-226
                Yak-130
                Su-Superjet
                Mi-Ansat

                And others are on a strong track to achieve it:

                Mi-38
                MS-21
                ...

                In the coming years, more projects will be implemented, the production volume of which will exceed 50 units. And the current degree of uncertainty about some projects will decrease.

                (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

                Being an auxiliary material for the Russian Armed Forces, I would not be surprised if some non-military force, like Rosgvardia emerges like customer of the Yak-130.

                There is no reason to think that Russia can not design competitive civil/auxiliary aircrafts. Actually there are both new modern projects of aircrafts and helicopters that succeeded to reach a production superior to 50 units, in the last 30-35 years:

                Ka-226
                Yak-130
                Su-Superjet
                Mi Ansat

                And others are in a strong path to reach it:

                Mi-38
                MS-21
                ...

                In the following years more projects will succeed to reach a production over 50 units. And the current degree of uncertaintly about some projects will decrease.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 15 February 2022 19: 54
                  +3
                  There is no reason to believe that Russia cannot design competitive civil/utility aircraft.

                  But there is reason to believe that the civil aviation industry in Russia is in deep ass.
                  1. eehnie
                    eehnie 15 February 2022 22: 30
                    -2
                    The Russian aircraft industry may be at an earlier stage of recovery than other areas, including the Russian helicopter industry, but both have a real and clear path of projects in the most successful niches given the real current demand:

                    In the weight category An-124:
                    Current generation in development: PTS-160

                    In the weight category IL-86/80/96:
                    Current generation in development: Il-106 PTS-80 PAK VTA, CRAIC CR929

                    In the weight category IL-76/78/82/Be-A-50 and IL-62:
                    Current generation in development: Il-90, Tu-304 FF

                    In the weight category Tu-204/214 and Tu-154:
                    Current generation in development: MS-21, Yak-242, Tu-330

                    In the weight category Tu-134, Il-18/20/22/24, An-10/12 and Mi-26/27:
                    Current generation in development: Su-Superjet, Tu-230 or Il-276, New helicopter
                    Next generation: Tu-334, Tu-230 or Il-276

                    In the weight category Mi-6/10/22 and An-72/71/74:
                    Current generation in development: Mi-46/AHL
                    Next generation: Ka-102

                    In the weight category An-24/26/30/32
                    Current generation in development: Mi-38

                    In the weight category of the Mi-8 and Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35/40 families:
                    Current generation in development: Yak-130, Ka-65 Lamprey
                    Next generation: Mi-37 X1, Ka-90, Ka-92 (most likely only one)

                    In the weight category L-410:
                    Current generation in development: Ka-60/62

                    In the weight category of Mi-2 and An-2/4/6 helicopters:
                    Current generation in development: Mi-Ansat
                    Next generation: Mi-54

                    In the weight category Ka-226:
                    Current generation in development: Ka-226
                    Next generation: Ka-118

                    Of course, the Russian aviation industry has a lot of work to do, and by the end, under each designation, a modern competent aircraft or helicopter should appear. But Russia is in a good position to continue every project in every niche of interest without losing previous work in those niches.

                    (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

                    The Russian aircraft industry can be in an earlier stage of recovery than in other areas, including the Russian helicopter industry, but both have a real and clear path of projects in the most successfull niches taking into account the real current demand:

                    In the weight category of the An-124:
                    Current generation in development: SLON PTS-160

                    In the weight category of the Il-86/80/96:
                    Current generation in development: Il-106 PTS-80 PAK-VTA, CRAIC CR929

                    In the weight category of the Il-76/78/82/Be-A-50 and Il-62:
                    Current generation in development: Il-90, Tu-304 FF

                    In the weight category of the Tu-204/214 and the Tu-154:
                    Current generation in development: MS-21 Yak-242, Tu-330

                    In the weight category of the Tu-134, Il-18/20/22/24, An-10/12 and Mi-26/27:
                    Current generation in development: Su-Superjet, Tu-230 or Il-276, New helicopter
                    Next generation: Tu-334, Tu-230 or Il-276

                    In the weight category of the Mi-6/10/22 and the An-72/71/74:
                    Current generation in development: Mi-46/AHL
                    Next generation: Ka-102

                    In the weight category of the An-24/26/30/32
                    Current generation in development: Mi-38

                    In the weight category of the Mi-8 family and Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35/40:
                    Current generation in development: Yak-130, Ka-65 Minoga
                    Next generation: Mi-37 X1, Ka-90, Ka-92 (likely only one)

                    In the weight category of the L-410:
                    Current generation in development: Ka-60/62

                    In the weight category of the Mi-2 and An-2/4/6:
                    Current generation in development: Mi-Ansat
                    Next generation: Mi-54

                    In the weight category of the Ka-226:
                    Current generation in development: Ka-226
                    Next generation: Ka-118

                    Of course, the Russian aircraft industry has a lot of work to do, and by the end, under every designation must emerge a modern competent aircraft or helicopter. But Russia is in a good position to continue every project in every niche of interest, without losing previous work in these niches.
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 15 February 2022 22: 38
                      +2
                      Are you familiar with the expression "to crush water in a mortar?"
                      1. eehnie
                        eehnie 16 February 2022 18: 15
                        -3
                        I am not familiar with this expression.

                        I just want to say that in fact, in all niches with higher demand, only one Russian project in the last 30-35 years does not have a good prospect to continue:

                        1.-) Be-A-40/42

                        And, like the Yak-130, this project also has a strong specificity. This would be the opposite exception compared to the Yak-130.

                        The Russian aircraft industry will do some work to identify the strongest niches without fearing the competencies of Boeing or Airbus, which of course have a strong presence in the strongest aircraft niches.

                        When the niches with the best prospects are identified, the previous work on the projects that I have included will appear, even in cases that may now be less active. And Russia will use this work and will update it.

                        Both Boeing and Airbus are probably the most obvious candidates for being subject to Russian sanctions as opposed to Western sanctions.

                        (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

                        Im not familiar with the expression.

                        Just to say, that actually, in all the niches with stronger demand, only one Russian project of the last 30-35 years has not a good prospect to continue:

                        1.-) Be-A-40/42

                        And like the Yak-130 this project has also strong specifics. This would be the opposite exception to the Yak-130.

                        There is a work that the Russian aircraft industry will do in order to identy the strongest niches, without fear to the Boeing or Airbus competence, that of course, are strongly present in the strongest niches for aircrafts.

                        When the niches with best prospect be identified, the previous work on the projects that I included will emerge, even in the cases that can be less active now. And Russia will use this work and will update it.

                        Both Boeing and Airbus are likely the most clear candidates to suffer Russian sanctions to counter the Western sanctions.
                      2. Undecim
                        Undecim 16 February 2022 18: 34
                        +2
                        I am not familiar with this expression.

                        And the expression "to sculpt a hunchback against the wall?"
                      3. eehnie
                        eehnie 18 February 2022 21: 55
                        -2
                        As noted earlier, I can understand that many people still do not see the real situation clearly, because the situation with projects with a solid prospect at an early stage can be confused with a situation with less solid projects.

                        If I'm right, the next Russian aircraft and helicopters with a maximum takeoff weight of more than 2,1 tons (approximately) that will exceed 50 units produced will be:

                        Mi-38
                        MS-21 Yak-242
                        Ka-60 / 62

                        In fact, air mobility solutions in Russia are more advanced for niches with a maximum takeoff weight of less than 126,7 tons than for niches with a higher mass.

                        In general, the main projects with a maximum takeoff weight of less than 126,7 tons for the new generation under development are successful in the civilian markets or are at an advanced stage of development with good prospects in the markets. Even import substitution is at an advanced stage.

                        If a project with a maximum takeoff weight of 2,1 to 126,7 tons has any problems, this is due to a lack of demand, which is a consequence of the fact that it is not positioned in the right niche, or because it is redundant , and, as a result, will have to wait until the next generation.

                        At the same time, in general, the main projects with a maximum takeoff weight in excess of 126,7 tons (approximately) are less advanced, and there is no Russian alternative for them.

                        If Russia has any problems with air mobility in the future, then it is much more likely that problems will arise in the weight categories above 126,7 tons of maximum takeoff weight.

                        (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

                        Like commented before, I can understand that many people still do not clearly see the real situation, because the situation of projects with solid prospect in early stage can be confused with the situation of less solid projects.

                        If Im right, the next Russian aircrafts and helicopters over 2.1 tons (roughly) of Maximum Take Off Weight, to surpass 50 units produced will be:

                        Mi-38
                        MS-21 Yak-242
                        Ka-60/62

                        Actually, the solutions for the air mobility in Russia, are more advanced for the niches under 126.7 tons of Maximum Take-Off Weight, than for the niches with superior weight.

                        In overall terms the main projects with less than 126.7 tons of Maximum Take-Off Weight, for the current new generation in development, are being a success in the civil markets, or are in advanced stage of development, with a good prospect in the markets . Even the import substitution is in advanced stage.

                        If some project between 2.1 and 126.7 tons of Maximum Take-Off Weight is having some problem, is because a lack of demand, that is a consequence of to be not positioned in the right niche, or because it is redundant, and as consequence will need to wait until the next generation.

                        At the same time, in overall terms, the main projects with Maximum Take-Off Weight superior to 126.7 tons (roughly), are less advanced, and there is not a Russian alternative for them.

                        If Russia will have some problem of air mobility in the future, it is much more likely that the problems emerge in the weight categories over 126.7 tons of Maximum Take-Off Weight.
                      4. Undecim
                        Undecim 18 February 2022 22: 24
                        -1
                        As noted earlier, I can understand that many people still do not see the real situation clearly, because the situation with projects with a solid prospect at an early stage can be confused with a situation with less solid projects.

                        Are you a robot
                      5. eehnie
                        eehnie 18 February 2022 23: 48
                        -2
                        and you?

                        (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

                        Y Tu?
                      6. The comment was deleted.
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. The comment was deleted.
                      9. The comment was deleted.
                      10. eehnie
                        eehnie 6 March 2022 13: 45
                        -1
                        Now you see how my comments are basically correct?

                        The military operation only accelerated the ongoing process.

                        (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

                        Do you see now how my comments are basically right?

                        The military operation only accelerated a process that was ongoing.
                      11. eehnie
                        eehnie 6 March 2022 19: 02
                        0
                        In this new situation, Russia is not a vulnerable party. The vulnerable side is Airbus and Boeing. Russia could impose sanctions on them, such as nationalizing their assets in Russia, including leased planes, which could put both companies in serious financial trouble. And they can use planes in the long run on a cannibalization model, which does not force Russia to rush to replace them.

                        British Petroleum is another very vulnerable company.

                        (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

                        In this new situation, Russia is not the vulnerable side. The vulnerable side is Airbus and Boeing. Russia is able to apply sanctions to them, like the nationalization of their assets in Russia, including the leased aircrafts, that can lead to both companies to severe financial problems. And can use the aircrafts in the long term under a canibalization model, that makes not Russia to be hasty in their replacement.

                        British Petroleum is another very vulnerable company.
  29. Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 February 2022 00: 03
    0
    At first, the main argument against the An-2 was that it was single-engine, and therefore not reliable.
  30. Ingvard chijoff
    Ingvard chijoff 15 February 2022 01: 00
    +5
    There was also a wonderful Il-14, which flew to that remote taiga corner where I spent my childhood. The ticket cost 15 r, fly 40 minutes to the regional center. It was also possible on the An-2, a little longer with an intermediate landing.
    1. Rusfaner
      Rusfaner 17 February 2022 08: 30
      +1
      Bourgeoises remotorize Dakota and fly, fly, fly...
      To Antarctica, by the way.
  31. Klingon
    Klingon 15 February 2022 02: 52
    +4
    Quote: viktortarianik
    Yes, the plane is small and the difficulties are great. And in many respects the fault is the lack of an engine. And what are they going to build in Yekaterinburg at UZGA? After all, squares cannot stand idle.

    I already somehow thought about this topic, in Russia, wherever you poke, everything rests on the lack of an engine, whether it’s a destroyer, fighter, tank or passenger car ... It’s surprising why engines can be made in Hochland, but not in Russia .. Some kind of nonsense
  32. YOUR
    YOUR 15 February 2022 02: 59
    +1
    2023 percent of aircraft in general aviation will be out of service by 79

    What to replace?
    I live in DV. There are representatives of this region here, they will confirm my words.
    Previously, there were airfields in almost every village. In summer river transport. All of a sudden it was no longer needed. There is no replacement for river transport, all aviation has been repaired. In the article, they have been trying to find a replacement for the An-30 for 2 years. There is no replacement because there is no production. They made one LMS-901 "Baikal" and it turned out to be with an American engine.
    What's next?
    1. 28st region
      28st region 15 February 2022 13: 46
      +2
      Everything is exactly like that. Previously, along the Zeya from Blagoveshchensk to the Zeya reservoir, more than 500 km. Twice a day, boats on wings went, calling at all the villages and villages that stand on the river. Everything is optimized to a state of zero. In those villages that flew away from the river, there were small An-2 airfields, our everything. Also optimized. Air ambulance was optimized.
      One of the reasons why the Far East was depopulated. People are leaving. At the beginning of 2000, a situation developed at BAM, even if you stop moving along it. The railroad workers fled.
      Nothing to replace. Neither river transport, nor air.
  33. 3danimal
    3danimal 15 February 2022 05: 32
    0
    If everything is so complicated, what prevents you from setting up production under the Cessn license? With the subsequent purchase of this license or the creation of a very similar “own” analogue? What, in the world there is no similar experience?
    Or buy the required quantity now, gradually finishing your version “for later”?
  34. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 15 February 2022 07: 33
    0
    the output will be a zachuhannaya giga for the price of a bugatti good yeah, let's raise the regional lines - who will only get up? I’m already on the L-410 in the region, otherwise there won’t be enough booze on this freak for courage.
  35. Grossvater
    Grossvater 15 February 2022 08: 12
    +2
    But what for in general to change the An-2? Why do you need a speed of 350 kymy, if you need to fly 150 kymy? There are things that are self-sufficient, any improvement of which only makes them worse. Well, they changed Irochka to TVD. An-3 is called.
    Finish inside, hang Shumkov.
    Eroplan is all-metal, it will not rot from the rain. A biplane at such speeds will always be lighter and cheaper than a strut-braced monoplane.
  36. Eug
    Eug 15 February 2022 08: 38
    +1
    As for me, most of the problems are due to the desire to reduce the cost of a flight hour. An aircraft of this class should be made from the simplest domestic materials and, if not the most economical, but again the most reliable and maintainable engine, which can be repaired, assembled and disassembled with a set of wrenches, screwdrivers and a little hammer. And the rescue system, as for me, should be based on high aerodynamic quality and, accordingly, the possibility of planning to find a suitable site for an emergency landing. The main disadvantage of the LMS, as for me, is the small volume of the fuselage. I remember the Soyuz and the flight Dnepropetrovsk - Kharkov-Voronezh, which connected, perhaps, the most "rocket" cities (with the exception of Kuibyshev-Samara and the golden-domed) of the European part .. the Yak-40 and An-24B flights were carried out, An flew from the primer - when in The runway was shifted in the Dnieper River, the cost of the Dnepr-Kharkov ticket was 7 rubles (train, bus - 5, travel time - 5 hours), flight time - from 40 minutes. up to 1 hour, depending on the take-off and landing course ... that was affordable aviation ...
    1. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 15 February 2022 16: 51
      +1
      Quote: Eug
      and albeit not the most economical, but again the most reliable and maintainable engine, which can be repaired, assembled and disassembled with a set of wrenches, screwdrivers and a little hammer

      This is an expensive option for modern small airlines. It is more profitable to maximize the resource and efficiency of the engine (aircraft) and service it at the manufacturing plant.
      Now in the fields, even auto engines are no longer being repaired.
  37. riwas
    riwas 15 February 2022 10: 06
    +1
    On February 9-10, the NAIS-2022 exhibition was held in Moscow, at which the Baikal flight model, which made its first flight on January 30, was presented.
    The chief designer of the aircraft, Vadim Demin, held a presentation and spoke about the main features of the aircraft. Particular attention is drawn to the demonstration of the appearance of different versions of the LMS-901.

    https://naked-science.ru/article/tech/na-vystavke-nais-pokazali-kak-budut-vyglyadet-raznye-versii-samoleta-bajkal
  38. senima56
    senima56 15 February 2022 10: 47
    +1
    Something tells me that there will be no serial production of this airplane, like the "Grach", like the "Gzhel", like the "Rysachka" ... They will make a couple of flying samples, show them at exhibitions and salons - at that and will end! And we will buy some foreign car and "aviation officials" will receive their "kickback"! negative There was a flying model TU-334. But they called it "obsolete" and decided to entrust the design and manufacture of a new aircraft to a company that had never (!!!) made civilian passenger aircraft! As a result, the country received 80% of the "import-containing" SSG, and the gentlemen "aviation officials" received their "kickbacks" for contracts from the supply of components for this "miracle"! fool negative
    "It's a shame for the state!"
  39. SHAH
    SHAH 15 February 2022 10: 51
    +2
    [i][/i] AN-2 was produced from 1947 to 1971, 300 more pieces are still flying (author) Since 1991, a real 100% Russian replacement for this machine has not been offered to this day. And if someone hopes that Russia will get up from its knees, make some jerks, then in vain, these will not be jerks, but death cramps.
    The results of the rule of the Zionist-liberals is the robbery of Russia and preparation for disintegration.
  40. vstrim
    vstrim 15 February 2022 11: 58
    0
    I did not find a comparison of "Baikal" with the Chinese Y-5BG, an AN-2 clone. Especially since Russia is already buying the Y-5BG. https://zen.yandex.ru/media/asd/rossiia-nachala-pokupat-v-kitae-samoletykopii-an2-kukuruznik-5db00ff4a660d700ad15de58
  41. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 February 2022 12: 46
    0
    The problem is not in the creation of the An-2
    1. the problem is effective demand in the capitalist country - the Russian Federation (in remote regions)
    2. The problem is in permissive and prohibitive moments in the legislation on small aircraft
    3. DOSAAF itself is not the biggest client now ...
    4. No centralized agricultural aviation
    5. just started to build a normal leasing (and here the client will obviously not be Aeroflot)
  42. monster
    monster 15 February 2022 13: 58
    0
    and at the new plant, which is specially going to be built from scratch in the Komsomolsk TOP in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. bugaga !!!) The capital will be transferred to New Vasyuki !!! Intergalactic chess tournament !!!
  43. Looking for
    Looking for 15 February 2022 17: 35
    +1
    some kind of archaic aircraft. My opinion is not an aircraft. But "sabotage"
  44. Alexfly
    Alexfly 15 February 2022 17: 35
    +2
    Another stillborn project ... no motors, no carbon fiber either .... Remotorization of the AN-2 would be the easiest answer, but there are no motors and the lack of kickbacks is obvious ..
  45. restless
    restless 15 February 2022 18: 49
    +1
    And it’s all the fault of the collapse of the aviation industry, shipping companies and airfields, pests - privatizers, why they won’t be condemned posthumously, and those who are alive won’t be imprisoned with confiscation, otherwise it turns out who ruined the industry, those are not enemies, but heroes of capital labor, why?
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 16 February 2022 10: 16
      0
      Quote: restless
      otherwise it turns out who ruined the industry, those are not enemies, but the heroes of capital labor, why?

      Because what is the "forming state", such is the state. There are a lot of high-class specialists here, and all with the psychology of serfs, waiting for the arrival of the "good master" and his orders. I recently watched Agatha Christie's Detective, where the action takes place in a British village in England. They have a village council and regular meetings, they decide for themselves..... yo, k, l, m. n...
      1. lot
        lot 17 February 2022 13: 43
        0
        Do people need a new one or Rurik? What do you think?
  46. iouris
    iouris 16 February 2022 16: 35
    0
    1) Highly like.
    2) Never. Never. Never.
  47. Diverter
    Diverter 16 February 2022 16: 38
    0
    Annushka needs a replacement. And we need not yesterday, but pose-pose-yesterday. Let at least some go into the series. The Russian Federation now needs aircraft of all classes and as many as possible.
  48. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 16 February 2022 16: 40
    +2
    We have already read all this. Repeatedly. To be honest, it all stuck in my teeth. The article has a bunch of informational garbage that does not have the slightest meaning, and there is no one single number that decides everything. Namely - the estimated price.
    To be honest, the authors of these articles would do well to have a little conscience. Why is the angel chewing all this again? Such an aircraft in modern conditions can be designed and built by third-year students of an aviation university. Without any problem. And aerodynamics, and strength, and materials, and everything, everything, everything is ready a long time ago.
    There is only one question. Will the plane be CHEAP. If it is, it is necessary. If not, all this chatter is another way to extort new billions from the budget without giving anything you need in return. How did one "statesman" ask for it there?
    A-ST-A-N-A-B-I-T-E-S-L!
  49. av58
    av58 17 February 2022 01: 32
    0
    Be that as it may, it is probably too early to put an end to the Viscount V100 project. A PW PT-6 engine was planned for the car, with the option of installing a Honeywell engine, but now it is possible to install a RED A03 diesel engine. It, of course, is almost 3 times heavier, but at the same time it burns kerosene 1,5-2 times less than Americans at a slightly lower power. Now the issue of localizing the production of RED A03 in Russia is being decided. With a reasonable approach and funding (where can you get away from this topic), the competitor LMS-901 "Baikal" still exists.
  50. Kazbek5000
    Kazbek5000 17 February 2022 12: 08
    0
    For 20 years I have been reading articles about replacing the An-2 with SOMETHING. But in none of them did I see an answer to the question: for what specific purposes is SOMETHING being created, because it is necessary to create a MULTI-PURPOSE aircraft. Basic goals:
    1-Avaiakhim work (especially in the summer - the fight against quarantine pests and diseases of agricultural crops)
    2-transportation of passengers and cargo in Siberia and the Far East (in the absence of a network of railways and roads)
    3 is the same as 2, but in the steppe, semi-desert regions.
    4-separately, in the regions of the Far North.
    How to achieve the Goals? What plane do you need? LMS is not suitable for achieving half of the goals.