The power of Chinese engines does not allow the J-20 fighter to use laser weapons

The intention of the Chinese military to equip its most advanced fighter J-20 with high-tech combat systems, such as lasers, cannot yet be realized due to the insufficient power of the aircraft's engines.

Currently, in a number of countries, including the United States, priority is given to arms with directed energy, which can be used to combat hypersonic missiles. The airborne combat laser is considered as a promising weapon that is capable of hitting other weapons. aviation, as well as objects on land and at sea.

However, the J-20 does not have a powerful enough power plant. In its current version, it does not provide energy for new weapons systems, and work on its modernization is chronically behind schedule. The high-powered engine for the new generation of fighters of the PLA Air Force was supposed to appear in 2020, but schedules are constantly shifting.

The limited thrust of the WS-10 engines, originally designed for earlier generations of fighter jets, could be a serious constraint to China's airborne laser weapons program.

As Western observers explain, the increase in energy consumption will negatively affect the flight range and maneuverability of the fighter. There are also physical limitations: when an aircraft approaches the speed of sound, airflow disturbances degrade the quality of lasers. In this regard, experts suggest that Chinese developers at the current stage focus on developing the fighter’s control capabilities drones.

The J-20 needs more thrust and stable power output to make full use of directed energy weapons.

- writes a columnist in the Hong Kong edition of SCMP.

Comments

[pavlov viahislav]

When you can't get into a full-fledged fourth-generation engine, but you tell everyone that you almost built a death star with a laser gun...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

. The increased power engine for the new generation of fighters of the PLA Air Force was supposed to appear in 2020, but schedules are constantly shifting.

like on a tracing paper. they are grinding out 30ku, for many years already.

[ioan-e]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

. The increased power engine for the new generation of fighters of the PLA Air Force was supposed to appear in 2020, but schedules are constantly shifting.

like on a tracing paper. they are grinding out 30ku, for many years already.

We are already at the final stage of "extortion", and the Chinese were not even close to the AL-41F1!

[Novichek]

like on a tracing paper. they are grinding out 30ku, for many years already.

. Or maybe that's the point? Maybe there is a direct relationship? While we are "not ready", then there is nothing and no one to "grab-scratch"? If it weren’t for the stolen Russian developments, these hyped J-... wouldn’t exist in nature at all until now! And in general. the quality of these "flying dragons" themselves is highly questionable. If they get into real combat conditions, look, the wings and the guides will begin to break off on bends) Will they withstand a hit even from a machine gun similar to at least a DShK of the 1944 model?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Novichek)

) Will they withstand a hit from at least a machine gun similar to at least a DShK of the 1944 model?

And how many supersonic aircraft do you know that can handle it?

[UGM159]

WS-15 (reaches 10000-11000 kgf, afterburner - 17000-18000 kgf)

[bayard]

Quote: UGM159

WS-15 (reaches 10000-11000 kgf, afterburner - 17000-18000 kgf)

This is still an unfinished copy of the Soviet-Russian R279V-300 engine, which was prepared for the Yak-201 and Su-47 Berkut. The Chinese bought it in the second half of the 90s and have been trying to bring it up ever since. So far, neither a resource nor a reasonable fuel consumption is obtained. But it is under this engine that the J-20 airframe is designed /
So until the engine is brought to mind, the aircraft will not reveal its potential.
And yet - in terms of specific thrust, the WS-15 is very far behind the "Product-30", which has also been flying for a long time, being tested and brought up. As far as I know, they have not yet received an acceptable resource, why the maximum thrust was limited to 18 kg.s. afterburner, instead of the maximum reached in 000 kg.s.
Look at the dry weight of the Izdeliye-30 engine (slightly lighter than the AL-31F) and the Chinese copy of the R279V-300 (a little over 2000 kg.).

[UGM159]

China has mastered the serial production of the WS-10C turbofan engine (WS-10C has a thrust at the afterburner of 15 kgf, they are also "first stage engines"). The maximum thrust of the WS-000 engine (Second stage engine for the J-15 fighter) reaches 20 -10000 kgf, afterburner - 11000-17000 kgf, Russia has no advantage.

[Konstantin Osadchy]

Are you close to producing innovative electric vehicles, high-speed trains, wind turbines, as well as cement and most everything else in excess of the production of the rest of the world ???

[svp67]

Quote: pavlov viahislav

but you tell everyone that you almost built a death star with a laser gun...

A star, not a star, but China already has about 200 of these "dragons" in its troops, they can already crush many in one mass and without lasers

[Bessik]

What "dragons" the Chinese have can be clearly seen from their digital technology

[belovvladimir]

You probably wanted to say that when the fourth generation engine has not been brought to mind, then you should not load it up to the fifth

[pavlov viahislav]

This is roughly what I wanted to say. If you do not take advertising booklets, then the Chinese are behind us and the Americans by about 20 years, plus or minus a five-year period. By hook or by crook they begged us for AL - 41 and performance characteristics of the Irbis. Finally, they bought them complete with a SU-35 airframe for $3 billion. Somehow their purchase contracts do not agree well with their own chatter about afars, the fifth generation, a new generation of engines, etc ...

[donavi49]

Well, Irbis did not impress them.

As for the engines - the work is in progress. The other day, the factory Y-20B flew with the WS-20. Given their pace, by the year 24, the Y-20V will already be more than the Il-76MD-90A.

By the way, it seems that they are already receiving an export certificate for the Y-20. So the first sales to which Pakistan or Algeria are just around the corner.

[Thrifty]

Were the Chinese able to create a real high-power combat laser? The whole world is sitting on the fifth point, even the US Congress and Senate are not able to bypass and prohibit certain technological problems when creating combat lasers, but the Chinese managed to? they fed their heads with technology to their own detriment, so they imagine who knows what about themselves! If their J20 is the notorious fifth generation of fighters, then I’ll knock the generation of the 9th fighter on my knee in a week!

[Blackmokona]

Khe khe, the Americans have long created high power lasers, other things stop them.

The Boeing YAL-1 Airborne Laser (formerly Airborne Laser) weapon system was megawatts. -class chemical oxygen-iodine laser (COIL), .

[Johnson Smithson]

has long been

The Chinese military has begun testing a shipborne laser weapon system. According to Jane's, the new installation can also be used as part of a coastal mobile short-range air defense system. A short report about the combat laser was shown by the Chinese CCTV channel.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Thrifty

The Chinese were able to create a real high-power combat laser?

It depends on what tasks this laser is used for. To shoot down an airplane or a rocket with a beam is unlikely. But blinding the guidance head of an air defense missile that was fired at an aircraft, or blinding the pilot of an enemy aircraft himself, then this task is quite up to the task.

[Vasyan1971]

Sorry - not a specialist, but how an increase in engine power can help in case of

as the aircraft approaches the speed of sound, airflow disturbances degrade the quality of the lasers.

?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Sorry - not a specialist, but how an increase in engine power can help in case of

The laser consumes a lot of energy, but the generator of the required power cannot be hooked up to the engines - it will stop flying! that's what they're complaining about...

[astepanov]

Not at all. The air flow is compressed or swirled near the hull and wings, its optical characteristics change ("mirages" on a hot road, everyone saw it, the same thing happens when air is compressed, only stronger). The laser beam in such a distorted stream is scattered and refracted, the laser loses its combat characteristics. You can (partially) correct the situation by increasing the laser power: losses will not decrease, but a margin will appear. And to increase power, you need a more powerful engine. True, and the laser will become heavier.
By the way, the term "directed energy" is meaningless: energy is a scalar, not a vector.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: astepanov

You can (partially) correct the situation by increasing the laser power: the losses will not decrease, but a margin will appear. And to increase power, you need a more powerful engine. True, and the laser will become heavier.

Yeah. It's clear. A vicious circle turns out ...

[Thrifty]

Astepanov - even increasing the power will not help, because then the main problem is not only focusing, but also the removal of excess heat without cooling the working body of the laser!

[Svetlana]

Quote: astepanov

The air flow is compressed or swirled near the hull and wings, its optical characteristics change (everyone has seen mirages on a hot road, the same thing happens when air is compressed, only stronger). The laser beam in such a distorted stream is scattered and refracted, the laser loses its combat characteristics.

Adaptive optics allows you to compensate for the distortions of the laser radiation wavefront that you mentioned.
And the nonlinear effects that occur in SMRB mirrors (forced Mandelstam-Brillouin backscattering) of laser amplifiers when the wavefront of illumination radiation reflected from targets is reversed allow the enhanced illumination radiation to be returned exactly to the target, regardless of the state of the turbulent atmosphere between the target and the onboard laser.

[km-21]

Quote: astepanov

By the way, the term "directed energy" is meaningless: energy is a scalar, not a vector.

Not deprived. The laser is really DIRECTIONAL energy. In this case, we are not talking about the direction from the source to the target, but that the energy flow is a set of coherent flows having the same direction. Due to the same directionality of these flows, the energy of the laser beam is not scattered by a spatial angle, but is concentrated on small areas of the target surface, as a result of which a high energy density is maintained at the point of impact despite the great distance from the source.

PS. And about the optical interference that occurs when the air swirls at high speeds, I absolutely agree with you.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: astepanov

). The laser beam in such a distorted stream is scattered and refracted

If the beam is scattered, then it will not get anywhere. It is necessary to bring the radiating part into an undistorted stream. Like a pitot tube that measures airflow relative to the aircraft. Energy is needed just to power this laser. Eats a lot of electricity...

[Rusticolus]

The laser beam in such a distorted stream is scattered and refracted,

If this is the case, then what kind of combat use can we talk about? Well, okay, dispersion, we increased the power by several orders of magnitude and in place of a point beam we got a defocused spot, albeit of great power. But what to do with refraction? How to aim if the beam shines x.z. where not to where you need to go? That is, to increase the power, you will also have to add a clever deviation correction system, which is also a very non-trivial task.

[astepanov]

How much is dissipated, how big are the losses? Without a quantitative assessment, there is nothing to talk about

[bovi]

it is obvious that there is a wave propagation front;
I think there is a chance to solve the problem with swirls by changing the geometry of the boundary of the media in the area. "shot" is limited in time and the impact on the aerodynamics of the decision will not be permanently negative.

[Amateur]

This is a simple, ordinary near-technical illiterate nonsense.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Amateur

This is a simple, ordinary near-technical illiterate nonsense.

Amateur approach, you mean?
No offense, just...

[Amateur]

An amateur is a person who knows little but wants to know more. And what most journalists write is near-technical illiterate nonsense, in technical speech they sounded like "complete * (near-technical ....)

[Vasyan1971]

Strictly speaking, an amateur is a person who does something without proper knowledge and professional training, which often leads to the result you have announced.
Hopefully still no offense.

[yuriy55]

The power of Chinese engines does not allow the J-20 fighter to use laser weapons

Not everything turns out right away ... “Product 30” will come out or you will get the F-35, - everything will work out!

[Split]

Well, yes, not a death star .... what's the point of talking about the Chinese if all their engines are based on ours

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Split

what's the point of talking about the Chinese if all their engines are based on ours

Nifiga.
Just the opposite in American.
They sold them a license a long time ago, when they were still friends against us.
Those. not just a working model, like ours, but also technologies, how and from what to do it.

[Split]

And nothing has changed....
Z.Y. Mutually

[Crash]

Quote: Split

if all their engines are based on ours

I'll tell you more...

[Split]

And I give you even more

[mag nit]

Selling 3D12, cheap.

[rocket757]

Currently, a number of countries, including the United States, are prioritizing directed energy weapons,

. Priority attention ... and what, there are already serious successes in creating a powerful energy weapon ??? Where, when, what is it about???

[2 Level Advisor]

yes plus another question, what kind of aircraft engines are modern - will these weapons be pulled then? or just news from the series - Chinese do not pull, and tomorrow we will write that European ones do not pull, then American, ours, etc. and a series of articles is ready ..

[rocket757]

This is so that the "spectators" do not get bored!

[Timur_3]

But it is not exactly.