Military Review

Facts Against Falsehood

356
Former anti-Stalinist - about the path to enlightenment

I have always had a negative attitude towards Stalin, especially after reading the books of Solzhenitsyn. Regularly driving around with lectures on the Union, I indignantly listened to questions about when Stalin was rehabilitated. Moreover, this question was asked not only by older people who went through the war, but also by many people of my age, i.e. born after the Great Patriotic. At that time I didn’t understand them at all: “How is it,” I thought, “so many people were destroyed, so many mistakes were made ...”

My attitude to Stalin began to change only in Canada, after reading books about the Stalin period, written in 70-e-90-e. Previously, I could not imagine the extent to which you can falsify history. In most of the "scientific" books, Stalin was portrayed almost as an idiot, but Western politicians were great strategists and tacticians.

After reading all this abracadabra, a meeting with the book by Ludo Martens "Another Look at Stalin" turned my attitude towards the "father of nations" at 180 degrees. Yes, the author is the chairman of the Workers' Party of Belgium, i.e. man of left views. But it must be borne in mind that even the leaders of many left-wing parties in the West, even those that are called communist, avoid touching on the topic of Stalin so as not to frighten their “electorate” dubbed by bourgeois propagandists. Martens is not afraid of this, since he is interested in the truth about Stalin. It was easy for me to double-check quotes and numbers, referring to the sources that he used. And I have never found fraud anywhere. Moreover, I could find similar assessments and facts in the works of other authors not mentioned in the book of Martens. Finally, on everyone’s shoulders, I dare to hope, his own head, the insides of which presuppose the ability to distinguish truth from brainless propaganda. For example, two professors, M. Geller and A. Nekrich, once wrote a book "Utopia in Power. History of the Soviet Union from 1917 to the present." It has such a place: in 1939, "an estimated 8 million Soviet citizens, or 9% of the total adult population, were in concentration camps." In a footnote, “clarification”: “Estimates of Soviet prisoners in camps in 1939 range from 8 million to 17 million. We took a low number, perhaps too low, although, despite this, it is still eloquent.” With an abundance of various sources, there was no source for this figure. From where it is taken, by whose estimates - is not said. Naturally, such authors can not be trusted. They simply earned on anti-communism. Due to this, and lived. To Martens, his book hardly brought even one cent, since in the West it was forbidden to be sold and it was possible (in 1995) to get it out only from the Internet.

I did not dwell on the sources in detail because I was going to write a lot about Stalin. And in order for the inexperienced reader not to succumb to the magic of published figures, in particular, about the Stalin period, since many of them are ideological lies.

COLLECTIVIZATION

The Russian reader is familiar with the era of collectivization from textbooks and books, nevertheless, in a nutshell I want to remind you of why it took Stalin to start collectivization.

Its necessity was dictated by both external and internal reasons, and among the latter not only the social side played an enormous role (the aggravation of the class struggle in the countryside), but also the purely economic side. Although in the period of the NEP, in 1922-1926, agricultural production reached a pre-revolutionary level, however, the situation as a whole was extremely depressing. As a result of the spontaneous free market, 7% peasants (2,7 million) were again without land. In 1927, 27 million peasants were horseless. In general, 35% belonged to the category of the poorest peasants. The majority, middle peasants (about 51-53%), had antediluvian tools. The number of rich-fists ranged from 5 to 7%. Fists controlled about 20% of the grain market. According to other data, on the fists and the top layer of the middle peasants (around 10-11% of the peasant population) in the 1927-1928. accounted for 56% sales of agricultural products. As a result, "in 1928 and 1929, the bread and then sugar, tea and meat had to be rationed again. Between October 1, 1927 and 1929, prices for agricultural products increased by 25,9%, grain prices in the free market increased by 289 % ". The economic life of the country, therefore, began to determine the fist.

The modern “democratic” press in Russia writes about the kulaks as the best part of the Russian peasantry. Professor E. Dilon, who lived in Russia for several decades, made a different impression of them. He writes: "Of all the human monsters that I have ever met while traveling (in Russia), I can’t remember more evil and disgusting than a fist."

Naturally, after the beginning of collectivization, the dispossession of kulaks began, estimated by the anti-communist press as the Stalinist “genocide” against the kulaks and “good peasants”. R. Conquest in his works names such a number of victims: 6,5 million. The kulaks were destroyed during the collectivization, 3,5 million. They died in the Siberian camps.

Many historians, including the German scholar Stefan Merle, in their works revealed the falsifications of Conquest, the "source" of which were the emigre circles, to which the Anglo-American ideologist referred. After the declassification of the Gulag archives, the real statistics of the victims of Stalinism, including those concerning the kulaks, were published. Martens, referring to Nicholas Bert, V. Zemskov, Arch Getty, Gabor Rittersporn, and others, cites the following figures. It turned out that in the most severe period of expropriation, in 1930-1931, peasants expropriated the property of 381 026 kulaks, who together with their families (and this is 1 803 392 rights) were sent to the East (i.e., Siberia) . Of these, 1 1932 1 reached the place of settlement by 317 in January 022; the rest of the 486 000 people fled along the way. This is instead of 6,5 million Conquest.

As for the "3,5 million killed in the camps," the total number of dispossessed never exceeded the 1 317 022 person numbers. Moreover, in 1932 and 1935. the number of people who left the camp exceeded the number of people who arrived at 299 389. From 1932 to the end of 1940, the exact death toll for natural reasons was 389 521 people. This number included not only dispossessed but also "other categories" that arrived there after 1935.

In general, only part of the 63 thous. Fists of the "first category" were shot "for counter-revolutionary activities." The number of people who died during the deportation, mostly from hunger and epidemics, was about 100 thousand people. Over 1932-40 about 200 thousand fists died in the camps for natural reasons.

Even more brazen lies - the figures on the "famine" in Ukraine in 1932-34. The variation is as follows: Dale Dalrymple names the number in 5,5 million, Nikolai Prikhodko (who collaborated with the Nazis during the war) - 7 million, U. H. Gamberlen and E. Lyons - from 6 to 8 million, Richard Stalet - 10 million ., Hosley Grant - 15 million. In the latter two cases, it must be borne in mind that the population of Ukraine in 1932 was equal to 25 million.

An analysis of the sources of these figures showed that part of it came from the Hearst press, known for its pro-Nazi sympathies, some were fabricated during the McCarthy period (1949-1953), some came from the fascist "sources" and from the Ukrainian émigrés who collaborated with Nazism.

For example, many Ukrainian hunger specialists often referred to data provided in Thomas Walker's articles published in Hearst newspapers in February 1935. This journalist "gave" a figure - 7 million deceased and many photographs of dying children. Canadian journalist - Douglas Tottl in his work “Fake, Hunger and Fascism: the myth of the Ukrainian genocide from Hitler to Harvard” revealed a lot of falsifications about all the figures mentioned, including those given by Walker. It turned out that this is not a journalist at all, but a criminal who escaped from the Colorado prison, having served 2 years instead of twisted 8 years. I decided to make some extra money on fake about the USSR (there was a lot of demand), somehow in England I received a transit visa to move from Poland to Manchuria, and thus spent 5 days in the Soviet Union. After returning home, he was arrested some time later, and admitted in court that “his leg had never stepped into Ukraine”. And his real name is Robert Green. The photographs depicted the dying children of a hungry 1921. And such “sources” Hearst newspapers at one time produced a lot.

The situation in Ukraine was really difficult. In 1932-33 hunger claimed from 1 to 2 million lives in the country. At the same time, conscientious scientists cite the four causes of the then tragedy. The first is connected with the opposition of the kulaks, who on the eve of collectivization destroyed livestock and horses (so that the “commies” did not get it). According to Frederick Schumann, in the period 1928-1933. the number of horses in the USSR decreased from 30 million to less than 15 million, cattle from 70 million heads (including 31 million cows) to 38 million (including 20 million cows), sheep and goats - from 147 million . to 50 million, pigs - from 20 million to 12 million. The second reason is drought in some regions of Ukraine in 1930-32. The third is the typhoid epidemic that was rampant in Ukraine and the North Caucasus at that time. (Even Hasli Grant, the author of 15 million, points to typhoid). In addition, the restructuring of agriculture in a collectivist manner led the illiterate and at the same time angry peasants who, naturally, could not break the wood.

Of course, these numbers in 1-2 million people - not 5-15 million, although also considerable. But one should not forget that this was a period of the most severe class struggle: the most severe on both sides: on the part of the poorest peasants, and on the side of the kulaks. "Who is who" not only in the sense of exploiters or exploited, but also in the sense of: past or future. Because the victory of the Stalinist line on collectivization pulled 120 million peasants from the Middle Ages, illiteracy and darkness.

"GREAT CLEANING" 1937-1939 YY.

The anti-communists can exercise their brains on the causes of the famine in capitalist Russia 1891, which covered 40 million people, of whom, according to official data, more than two million died; famine 1900-1903 (also about 40 million people were covered, 3 million adults died); hunger 1911, when he died, however, less - 2 million. I understand that for them, anti-communists, these “famines” are not interesting. They are not paid for.

Pay for another. For example, for the terrible fables about the "unreasonable" repression of the Stalin regime against the Trotskyists, Bukharinites, about Stalin's terror during the "Great Purge", in particular with regard to the military elite, including Tukhachevsky. However, the memoirs of the participants of various conspiracies very eloquently refute the myths created during the time of Khrushchev. Among them, for example, are the revelations of G.A., who escaped to 1948 in England. Tokayev, Colonel of the Soviet Army, Party Secretary of the Air Force Academy. Zhukovsky in 1937-48., Very frankly described the goals, methods and methods of overthrowing the military tip of the "Stalinist regime."

One of the powerful propaganda myths in the West, as well as in today's Russia, is the myth of terror in 1937-1939. Already mentioned Conquest in his works cites the number of people arrested from 7 to 9 million. It is taken from the memories of former prisoners who claimed that from 4 to 5,5% of the Soviet population were in prisons or deported. True, another professional anti-communist, Zb. Brzezinski, in one of his works, stipulated that there could not be exact estimates, and the error could vary within a few hundred thousand or even a million.

More detailed information of Conquest is as follows: by the beginning of 1934, 5 million people were driven into the gulags during the 1937-38 years. - more than 7 million, i.e. 12 million people are recruited, of which 1 million were shot, and 2 million died for various reasons within two years. As a result, to 1939 in the Gulag there were 9 million people, "not counting those who were there under criminal articles." The subsequent calculation leads Conquest to the following figures: during 1939-53. average mortality in gulag was 10%. And the number of prisoners was constant, an average of about 8 million. Consequently, during this time about 12 million people were destroyed. The Medvedev brothers increase these numbers: the gulag ranged from 12 to 13 million.

After the publication of the Gulag materials it turned out: in 1934, there were thousands of people in the Gulag system from 127 to 170. A more accurate figure is 507 307 people, if we mean non-political prisoners. "Political" was 25-35%, i.e. about 150 thousand people. Conquest to them "added" more 4 850 thousand people.

In 1934, there were actually 127 thousand people, and a maximum of 500 thousand in 1941 and 1942. During the Great Purge, the number of prisoners increased from 1936 to 1939 to 477 789 people. According to Conquest, about 855 thousand people died per year in the Gulag (if we bear in mind its figure in 12 million people), in fact 49 thousand people died in peacetime.

Similar fakes were fabricated against the “old Bolsheviks” and other victims of the “Stalinist terror”.

As can be seen from these figures, the victims of Stalinism turned out to be ten times smaller than they are represented in anti-communist propaganda. But they were. Was it possible to do without them? Of course you can ... theoretically. If:

a) the fists did not resist collectivization;

b) the Bukharinites would not protect them;

c) Trotsky would not organize conspiracies and would not associate with Hitler's Germany (as reported by Churchill);

d) Tukhachevsky would not plot an anti-Stalinist conspiracy;

e) the soviet Soviet bureaucrats would think more about the case, and not about their pockets, etc.

And all together they would not oppose socialism, for which Stalin and his comrades fought. Do not be Stalin smarter and smarter than all of them, the big question is what would become of the USSR, and with the whole world. But the then Soviet people, and above all the communists, unlike the current democrats, hardly began to lick the Germans their boots, as the Europeans did. So in all these “purges” there was a great reason not only from the point of view of the interests of the Soviet state, but also from the point of view of the whole of Europe, and, perhaps, of the whole world.

American scientists write a lot about Stalinist totalitarianism. I can offer them a theme for further writing: how many Jews would be left on earth, had it not been for this "totalitarianism." Discuss, guys, at your leisure.

Stalin was certainly a dictator. But not only because of his character, as Lenin pointed out. Time and circumstances made him a dictator. You need to imagine that time, for example, the end of 20's. In Italy - fascism, in Germany, the Nazis are eager for power with the anti-communist and anti-Soviet program. The democratic powers — Britain and France — instigate and support this fascism against the USSR. In the East, Japan is preparing for war, either with China or with the USSR. Domestically, the NEP. Although there is some improvement in economic terms, hostile classes are reviving again, which leads to "the intensification of the class struggle", especially in the countryside. The economy is agrarian. The external threat is real. The old Bolsheviks still dream of a world revolution. Enemies of all stripes are beginning to become active. What can be a democracy in these conditions? Under such circumstances, there could be only a rigid dictatorship, which was formed in the 30-s.

Stalin turned out to be an astute strategist and tactician in the realization of the goal of "building socialism in one country." Even before the revolution, he was the only Leninist guard who did not rule out the possibility that "Russia will be the only country following the path of socialism", while the majority in the party counted on social. revolution in European countries. Under Stalin, the foundations of socialism were laid in the USSR. The process of laying itself took place in extraordinary circumstances that demanded harsh measures against all enemies of socialism, internal and external. However, harshness against the enemies of the new society, ultimately, turned out to be a boon to the majority of the population, as well as to strengthen the Soviet state. During the Stalinist leadership, incomplete 30 years, the agrarian, impoverished, dependent on foreign capital, the country became the most powerful military-industrial power on a global scale, the center of a new socialist civilization. The impoverished and illiterate population of Tsarist Russia has become one of the most literate and most educated nations in the world. Despite the relative loss of intellectual potential due to the emigration of the pro-Syar and bourgeois intelligentsia during the years of revolution and civil war, a new Soviet creative and scientific intelligentsia emerged, not inferior to the previous generation. In other words, even the initial stage of socialism, with its mistakes and tragedies in the process of folding a new society, demonstrated the enormous inner potential of socialism as a system that simply liberated the socialist genes of the Russian man from the former shackles and chains of European modernization, including in the form of capitalism. A simple thing happened: the liberated inner essence of the Russian man has finally found its support, i.e. external form in the form of a socialist superstructure and base, introduced by Lenin and strengthened by Stalin.

Stalin, of course, made a lot of tactical mistakes, but strategically turned out to be a cut above the then politicians of the whole world. He beat them all and won not only the war, but also defended socialism, which later spread to one third of the world. Under Stalin, the Soviet Union became a superpower. What is the price? - Scary. But I would like to know what the current critics of Stalin would have done at that time? And by the way, I probably know. Would sell Russia even to Hitler, though Churchill, though to Roosevelt. Because it is precisely this very people that they hate.
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  1. bask
    bask 24 September 2012 07: 45
    -72
    Stalin was a Georgian by nationality. All claims and questions on Slalin repressions to Misha Saakashvili. At the same time, he is a typical emperor of Russia. And his reign is like a zebra, 50. by 50. Without Stalin, there was no victory in the Second World War and in 49 nuclear, bombs, space, etc. .. But innocent victims and repressions can not be proved, not by any merit. Each ruined life could be, and yours, life.
    1. Fox 070
      24 September 2012 08: 08
      +68
      Quote: bask
      Stalin was a Georgian by nationality.

      Stalin was not a Georgian. He is Ossetian, albeit a native of Gori. And do not compare it with inadequate Mishiko. If Saakashvili had even a drop of Stalinist insight, then Georgia would now live in paradise.
      And what innocent victims are you writing about? 99% of all repressed were really enemies of the state and (oddly enough) enemies of the people living in this state. The same story is with modern Russia - the same fifth column, the same attempts (very successful) to destroy the country, destroy its originality and free spirit, bring it to a "common human" denominator and, as a result, grind all Russianness into powder. But Stalin is not there to resist this orgy of the Jews in our land.
      Quote: bask
      .Each ruined life could be, and your life.

      Do not distort! Hard times require difficult decisions!
      1. Ross
        Ross 24 September 2012 10: 45
        -16
        Fox 070,
        Stalin was the son of Prizhevalsky and Gruzinka.
        Much new has been written about Stalin and his role for Russia in the new book by G.A. Sidorov. - "The Secret Project of the Leader or Neo-Stalinism"

        Table of Contents:

        Part one
        What society in the USSR did Stalin build.
        Two Soviet perestroika
        Chapter 1. Top Level Betrayal 35
        Chapter 2. Reconstruction of Khrushchev 38
        Chapter 3. What society in the Soviet Union did I.V. build? Stalin .... 43
        Chapter 4. Forces opposing the Stalinist course.
        Personal intelligence of Stalin. War xnumx
        Chapter 5. The Inferiority of Marxism-Leninism 53
        Chapter 6. A few words about modern historical science 54
        Chapter 7. Resistance to Khrushchev's reforms 57
        Chapter 8. 58 Golden Age Civilization Sources of Knowledge
        Chapter 9. Marxism as a project of the 62 Illuminati
        Chapter 10. Sources of secret knowledge
        used by Stalin 66
        Chapter 11. Repression of the Trotskyists 71
        Chapter 12. 74 rebirth problem
        Chapter 13. Family issue of the top leadership of the USSR 79

        Chapter 14. The paradox of Brezhnev time 82

        Chapter 15. Marxism - the order of the forces of destruction 84

        Chapter 16. 86 Communism Plan

        Chapter 17. Total world information war.
        Stalin as a genius of the information war 88
        Chapter 18. Information activity of Khrushchev and Brezhnev 93
        Chapter 19. Separation of the Soviet class-party nomenclature. . Xnumx
        Chapter 20. The social law of dictatorship. Dictatorship of Stalin 96
        Chapter 21. Secret forces of counteraction. The nature of these forces 99
        Chapter 22. Information blow of the West.
        The special role of the Soviet intelligentsia 102
        Chapter 23. Who runs the 106 global intelligence agencies
        Chapter 24. What we do not know about the 117 intelligence services
        Chapter 25. KGB and globalization 121
        Chapter 26. A few words about the feat of Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria 125
        Chapter 27. Khrushchev's relationship with the KGB 133
        Chapter 28. The stupidity of the Soviet elite 134
        Chapter 29. L.I. Brezhnev, Yu.V. Andropov and the KGB 137
        Chapter 30. Permutation in the KGB 141
        Chapter 31. Two subtleties of 147 selection
        Chapter 32. For those who do not want to think 150
        Chapter 33. Path to Doom: 153
        Chapter 34. What did not please Yu.V. Andropov 157
        Chapter 35. 161 Questions, Answers, and Assumptions
        Chapter 36. Gorbachev as the successor of Andropov 162
        Chapter 37. How the 172 Empire was stolen
        Chapter 38. Something About 178 Economics
        Chapter 39. Deficit as a Leverage for 183 Society Management
        Chapter 40. Create discontent in the 185 republics
        Chapter 41. Alliance Betrayal 190
        Chapter 42. Who organized the PPP? And for what? Xnumx
        Chapter 43. A few words about VV Putin 197
        Chapter 44. The shadow of the third adjustment 203
        Chapter 45. Unbroken people 207
        Chapter 46. A bit of mythology. Who is behind the biblical project. . . .210
        Chapter 47. 219 Society Impact Strategy
        Chapter 48. A few words about Russian nationalism 222
        Chapter 49. Nationalism of the rebuilders of the 225 special services
        Chapter 50. A few words about the reason for the destruction of the Russians 228
        1. V. Salama
          V. Salama 29 September 2012 13: 48
          +1
          Quote: Ross
          Much new has been written about Stalin and his role for Russia in the new book by G.A. Sidorov. - "The Secret Project of the Leader or Neo-Stalinism"
          Yes, all education in one book. Read more:

          1. Pykhalov I.V. The most vile myths about Stalin. slander of the leader. 224 p.
          2. Dmitry Lyskov. The forbidden truth about "Stalinist repressions". "Children of the Arbat" are lying! 228 s.
          3. Lavrenty Gurdjieff. Stalinism is the spawning of Russia. 640 s
          4. Ludo Martens. Forbidden Stalin. 416 p.
          5. Yuri Mukhin. The great commander in chief I.V. Stalin. 256 s.
          6. Ivan Benediktov, Alexey Rybin. Near Stalin. 240 s.
          7. Anabella Bucur, Ralph Parker. Allies vileness: How the West betrayed Stalin. 224 p.
          8. Oleg Vishlev. Stalin and Hitler. Who deceived whom. 272 p.
          9. Leo Balayan. Stalin. Father of the people. 256 s.
          10. Sergey Aksyonenko. Why do we need Stalin. 208 p.
          11. Leo Balayan. Bring back Stalin! 256 s.
          12. Vladimir Loginov. Living Stalin. Revelations of the chief bodyguard of the Leader. 224 p.
          13. Vladimir Zhukhrai. Stalin’s personal intelligence service. 240 s.
          14. Sergey Es. Posthumous speech of Stalin. 240 s.
          15. Sigismund Mironin. The assassination of Stalin. The largest conspiracy of the twentieth century. 208 p.

          Read, there will be little - still add.
          1. Ross
            Ross 29 September 2012 23: 36
            0
            V. Salama,

            Hasty conclusions. I wrote only: Another book about Stalin from many others! But it is in this book that a completely new view of Stalin’s affairs is not reflected anywhere else. And that’s all.
            And so, I can publish at least your list.
            1. V. Salama
              V. Salama 1 October 2012 11: 14
              0
              Quote: Ross
              Hasty conclusions.
              I accept the remark. I promise to read the source. It's just that the preamble about "the son of Prizhevalsky and Gruzinka" says a lot - about the position of rejection of objectionable arguments.
            2. crazyrom
              crazyrom 2 October 2012 01: 18
              +3
              It will be very relevant to mention the recent book by N. Starikov "Stalin: We Remember Together", where many myths are broken, facts are cited, in short, most of you will be very interested.
      2. Zmitcer
        Zmitcer 24 September 2012 11: 51
        -19
        But what about what he said to himself: I am a Russian Georgian. AND? apparently he forgot to warn you about this version. But in general, who cares what nationality Hitler, Stalin .. least of all cares what nationality these filth was.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 24 September 2012 11: 54
          +5
          Quote: Zmitcer
          But in general, what's the difference who is Hitler by nationality, Stalin.

          Churchill, Roosevelt
        2. Fox 070
          24 September 2012 11: 58
          +14
          Quote: Zmitcer
          . least of all, what nationality were these scum.

          Well, judging by your post, the nationality of one scum has already been determined. hi
          1. INTER
            INTER 24 September 2012 14: 02
            +34
            The fact is that those who talk about repression do not like him because they or their ancestors had their feeder blocked, and someone was sent to the other world.
            1. Zmitcer
              Zmitcer 24 September 2012 23: 25
              -28
              Under Stalin, those who walked in line lived very well, reported to neighbors, shot people, left children orphans. And so many descendants of those executioners regret that they have to work today .. is it easier to kill? In this photo, it’s definitely not your grandmother. your grandmother proudly wore a red tie, wrote denunciations, joyfully sucked lollipops and loved Stalin.
              1. Rink
                Rink 25 September 2012 00: 25
                +10
                Quote: Zmitcer
                Under Stalin, those who walked in line lived very well, reported to neighbors, shot people, left children orphans. ...

                Whether you consciously or not, you are just spreading dissident horror films about the nightmare of total repression. Under Stalin, not a larger percentage of the people sat in prisons and camps than they do in modern Russia today. In the end, there are the same archives with numbers, and which, unlike all Solzhenitsyn's essays and works of "historians", are true.
                And there were mostly bandits and thieves. It was later that they all signed up for "political" ones, but there were much fewer political prisoners under Stalin than they are now in the CIA prisons.

                But those who were sitting were sitting right!
                Of course, there was a small percentage of innocent convicts, but they still exist now, and not only in Russia. Themis in "civilized" countries also works not without errors, and there are the same cases. However, now it would also not hurt to send all this swamp rag with rebellious vaginas together to nature closer, to the taiga. Maybe the calm and pure nature of Russia and simple uncomplicated work would cleanse their venal petty souls a little?
                1. pioneer
                  pioneer 28 September 2012 22: 50
                  +8
                  On the errors of the judicial system. Grandfather was sentenced to 10 years incommunicado. He served 4 years and 8 months, then they shot Yagoda and Yezhov and, with a bad Beria, they released them. His grandfather, as he himself said, served his half of the term justly, So the Soviet government knew how to correct mistakes, and everything else from "BESOV".
              2. INTER
                INTER 27 September 2012 14: 32
                +3
                Quote: Zmitcer
                Under Stalin, those who walked in line lived very well, reported to neighbors, shot people, left children orphans. And so many descendants of those executioners regret that they have to work today .. is it easier to kill? In this photo, it’s definitely not your grandmother. your grandmother proudly wore a red tie, wrote denunciations, joyfully sucked lollipops and loved Stalin.

                No need to get personal, unlike some, my grandmother dug trenches in the labor front. Then this step was necessary to repulse the future enemy. And what is your grandmother in the photo? Or do you know her? It may not be due to Stalin’s decisions, maybe because of the fascists.
              3. pioneer
                pioneer 28 September 2012 22: 44
                +2
                My grandmother wore a red tie and built socialism for 14-16 hours a day, and at the same time considered herself very, very happy. But you are probably one of those scoundrels and scoundrels who distort the facts, or are a representative of the "racial intelligentsia".
              4. Asketxnumx
                Asketxnumx 29 September 2012 18: 58
                +2
                Complete nonsense. My age allows me to say: I remember who lived well in the 50-60s. Those who worked hard and honestly, who didn’t steal, who basically saw the well-being of the family, and conscientious work.
                What, today, other landmarks?
              5. beech
                beech 30 September 2012 21: 01
                0
                Ano shows how badly he lived under communism !!
                The country has become a leading world power, people who have been educated in the USSR now weigh in gold all over the world, the army created in the USSR has been sawing for more than 20 years ... how can one speak badly about communism ??
                if you are an adequate person who knows history and you are talking communism, then I'm sorry, you are a traitor! People like you should sit in the gulag along with the traitors of that time!
            2. beech
              beech 30 September 2012 20: 56
              -1
              foolish Soviet bureaucrats would think more about the matter, not about their own pockets, etc.
              Zanite me one that situation reminds the current ??
              I did the right thing that I cleaned the Kremlin, otherwise they were potential traitors !! Eh, it would be nice to carry out such a purge in our time !!!
      3. Maks111
        Maks111 25 September 2012 12: 21
        -14
        thirty!!!!!!!!!! MILLION man of traitors ?! In my opinion, you are not in yourself guys. You all burn in hell with sralin and Lenin. This is not a wish but a warning and statement of fact.
        1. Rink
          Rink 27 September 2012 00: 33
          +3
          Quote: Max111
          thirty!!!!!!!!!! MILLION man of traitors ?! ...

          What are 30 million traitors? who did they dream of ?! this is nonsense, written off from the ceiling ...
          One "hysterical" ... sorry, "historian"! wrote 10 million out of the box, another habitually doubled to 20, and the third after them took and summed up. Never believe corrupt dissidents, defectors and other people's special services ...
          1. INTER
            INTER 27 September 2012 14: 42
            +6
            Quote: Max111
            thirty!!!!!!!!!! MILLION man of traitors ?! In my opinion, you are not in yourself guys. You all burn in hell with sralin and Lenin. This is not a wish but a warning and statement of fact.

            From the works of V. Zemskov, we know the data on the total number of Gulag prisoners by years - from 1934 to 1953. The years of World War II should be excluded from the statistics, since the repressive policy of this period was built according to the laws of wartime and is not typical.

            The most indicative for us will be 1934 (510 prisoners, the beginning of repression) and the pre-war peak of 307 (1939 prisoners, the period of the Great Terror). Also, for example, take the peak year of 1, in which the absolute maximum of the Gulag was reached - 672 prisoners. At the same time, not forgetting that a significant increase in the number of prisoners in the post-war period was associated with war and post-war disruption (the massive increase in the number of collaborators who collaborated with the Nazis during the Second World War was also imposed on the natural increase in crime).

            According to TSB, the population of the USSR was 194,1 million as of January 1, 1940; 178,5 million on January 1, 1950. The data of the 1937 census are not reliable, and there is no complete data on the population of an earlier period - until 1913, when the population of tsarist Russia amounted to 159,2 million people. Based on existing data, it is possible to calculate with high accuracy the relative number of prisoners per 100 thousand population for the USSR of the 39th and 51st years and with a certain error for the 1934th: 1934 - 263 prisoners per 100 thousand population (using data from 1940 ); 1939 - 862; 1950 - 1.

            The Russian human rights organization “Center for the Promotion of Criminal Justice Reform” provides [8] such data on JVC for modern (2004 data) countries of the world: “USA - 700, Belarus - 555, Kazakhstan - 520; "Ukraine - 415, South Africa - 400, Latvia - 350, Estonia - 330, Cuba - 300, Lithuania - 260, Iran - 230, Azerbaijan - 220, Poland - 210, Chile - 205."

            It can be seen from the comparison that the peak year of 1939 “Great Terror” is only slightly ahead of the modern USA in terms of OKZ. In 1950, the Soviet Union was twice as fast as the modern United States, but this country did not survive the terrible war in its territory over the past 5 years.

            The data are quite indicative. By the way, for the 1940 USA, the OKZ indicator was indeed several times lower than the Soviet one and amounted to only 222, at the level of modern Iran or Poland. However, when looking at the dynamics of the number of prisoners [9] in the United States from 1910 to 2000 (see graph), one can, if desired, conclude that modern American authorities carry out repressions at least comparable to Stalinist ones.
        2. V. Salama
          V. Salama 29 September 2012 13: 02
          0
          Quote: Max111
          thirty!!!!!!!!!! MILLION man of traitors ?! In my opinion, you are not in yourself guys.
          This is how much you need to be out of yourself to invent such numbers. This is for you to burn in hell for slander and utter hopelessness. There is no desire to work with reliable sources, listen to principled and smart people on this topic, for example A. Wasserman about Stalin (on YouTube).
        3. Asketxnumx
          Asketxnumx 29 September 2012 20: 04
          -1
          Empty sound! Where are the facts? And where is basic literacy?
        4. vovan1949
          vovan1949 3 October 2012 19: 03
          -1
          @thirty!!!!!!!!!! MILLION people of traitors[email protected]
          And why not 230 million? . Oh yes, then the population of the USSR was less
          200 000 000. When naming numbers, you need to think with your head.
      4. Konrad
        Konrad 26 September 2012 20: 04
        -2
        Quote: Fox 070
        99% of all repressed were really enemies of the state

        Korolev, Vavilov, Tupolev, Myasishchev, Landau. Many thousands of prisoners, mainly scientists and engineers, worked in the "sharashkas". Academicians N.I. Vavilov, I.K.Luppol (1943) died in prison, Academician N.M. Lukin (10), who was sentenced to 1940 years in prison, died during the investigation, Academicians Ya.O. .Parnas and I.F. Grigoriev (1949); Corresponding members E.F.Budde, E.I.Shpitalsky (1931), V.Yu. Gan (not earlier than 1939), A.F. Walter (1941), G.A. Levitsky, I. Zamotin (1942), KD Pokrovsky (1944), P.A. Walter (1947). The fate of V.Yu. Gan, arrested in 1937, is unknown; according to official data, he died not earlier than 1939; even his photographic image has not yet been found. Died in exile: honorary member of the USSR Academy of Sciences D.F. Egorov (1931), academicians S.F. Platonov (1933), V.N. Peretz (1935), M.K. Lyubavsky (1936); Corresponding members D.N. Egorov (1931), A.I. Brilliantov (1933), S.V. Rozhdestvensky (1934), V.G. Druzhinin (1937). These are the enemies of the people ??? And how many more MILLIONS of people were destroyed by the half-educated seminarian Dzhugashvili.
        1. V. Salama
          V. Salama 29 September 2012 13: 13
          -1
          Quote: Konrad
          These are the enemies of the people ???
          Do we have every condemned enemy of the people? There is a criminal article, on which both the charge and the punishment. If an academician or just a talented person, then a priori infallible? Another thing is that time was severe and judged severely, but judging those times from the perspective of today's time, especially not knowing the essence of the accusation, is, to put it mildly, not decent.
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 18: 26
            -2
            Quote: V. Salama If an academician or just a talented person, then a priori infallible [/ quote

            "The fact that you are still not sitting is not your merit, but our fault."
            "There would be a man, but there is an article"
            1. Rink
              Rink 30 September 2012 19: 17
              +1
              Quote: Konrad
              "The fact that you are still not sitting is not your merit, but our fault."
              "There would be a man, but there is an article"

              Another example of twitching in order to slander. Typical, however.

              How do liberals make the image of a monster out of Stalin? It's very simple! Relying on the fact that no one reads the originals and primary sources, they simply "correctly" quote Stalin, and sometimes ascribe to him what he did not say at all.

              ________

              Thank God, now there is a lot of literature about Stalin. Literature is different both in level and direction. The time of exaltation has ended, the time of overthrow has passed, the time of oblivion has also passed. There are many books about Stalin.
              They write about him, talk about him, refer to him ... But the trouble is: Stalin himself is not given the floor. If quotes are included in the text, then very briefly and sometimes these same quotes are taken out of context. So it turns out tough. But a phrase torn out of the general meaning can acquire the opposite direction. We will not go far for an example. Let's open the first volume of Stalin's works (the well-known 13-volume collected works, the one that began during the life of Joseph Vissarionovich). Page 290. We read:

              What the law does not do, the bullet must make up!



              What excellent proof of "bloodthirstiness"! Yes, that's what a discrepancy. There is the following phrase. The fully quoted quote sounds like this:

              "What the law does not do, the bullet must make up! So thinks the tsarist government.

              ("Factory Legislation and the Proletarian Struggle" v. 1, p. 290.)
              The difference in meanings is visible.
              ________

              If you are interested to know what Stalin thought and did - read primary sources, but not how it is "presented" by the "defenders of all mankind."
            2. V. Salama
              V. Salama 1 October 2012 11: 43
              0
              Quote: Konrad
              "The fact that you are still not sitting is not your merit, but our fault."
              It is quite obvious that in a number of situations this statement can be true and fair regardless of the position. The question is, who is the author of this statement?

              Quote: Konrad
              "There would be a man, but there is an article"
              Likewise, who is the author? But in fact - the truth of today, even just a banality.
        2. vovan1949
          vovan1949 30 September 2012 19: 48
          +2
          And what kind of participation in anti-Soviet conspiracies and anti-Soviet agitation had to be patted on the head?
      5. alexdol
        alexdol 28 September 2012 21: 04
        +3
        Fox 070 (8) RU ". But Stalin is not there to resist this orgy of the Jews in our land."
        Totally agree with you! I would also like to say that Stalin is very well written in the book by Yuri Kozenkov "Struggle for Power" from his series Calvary of Russia. It was after this book that I reconsidered my attitude towards him!
        And a few more words about the "ruined" lives that bask is talking about. And tell me, today we do not have Stalin, and the losses are colossal in industry and, most importantly, in PEOPLE! The people are DIE OUT! And you undertake to criticize Stalin !? I believe that the mistakes of the past can be judged only when TODAY is a normal day, but so far there is no trace of it ...
      6. Zmitcer
        Zmitcer 29 September 2012 15: 39
        -4
        Quote: Fox 070
        But there is no Stalin to resist this bacchanalia of the Jews on our land.
        Only rams need a shepherd. Only slaves need a "successor"
        1. Rink
          Rink 29 September 2012 15: 58
          +2
          Quote: Zmitcer
          Only rams need a shepherd. Only slaves need a "successor"

          ... and only fools do not understand that there can be no country without a leader.

          Any patriotic president is essentially a "shepherd" who cares about his "flock" (compare with church terms). And only the president-traitor, the protégé of the enemies, is not a "shepherd", but a "wolf", a robber and a thief who does not care about his people and the interests of the country.

          With the black mouth of every strong leader of Russia, the enemies called them whatever they liked: both a "shepherd" and a "successor" (like to offend the feelings of the population - so that "we are not rams!" The rams would rise up), and a "dictator" and "despot". But this drooling was always a sure sign that he, the leader, was correct and acted for the good of Russia. Stalin was just a patritot. It is necessary to judge not by the invented millions of victims, but by the results of economic development, living standards, political authority, science and education achieved by the USSR during its reign.

          And they always praised and praised all the traitors, even the weak-willed Yushch Pryshchavy (the policeman's son and a traitor himself, married to the SS and CIA), even the Marked Bear (Gorbachov), even the current swamp trash, even the scum hired from the Syrian-Libyan-Chechen "rebels". These are - yes, democrats and humanists! The fact that they cut their heads and torture children is trifles ... Such trifles will not harm the image of a real liberal ...

          And you, Zmitcer, apparently, not a very smart person.
          You act too rudely, primitively, you lack subtlety and tact so that your views can find at least one new supporter. Pluses put to you exclusively the same as you - the ideological enemies of Russia and all Russian.
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 29 September 2012 18: 49
            0
            Quote: Skating rink
            Any patriotic president is essentially a shepherd

            I don’t need a shepherd! A smart leader is another matter.
            1. Rink
              Rink 29 September 2012 19: 15
              +4
              Quote: Konrad
              I don’t need a shepherd! A smart leader is another matter.

              Do you play with words? Oh well..

              Look, take Yushchenko for example.
              Financier, banker! higher education, wrote books ("Currency risk management", for example - I have it in the library.) I held high posts in the state ... I was pushing long speeches to the camera without a piece of paper. "Smart leader" ?!

              When he complained on the Maidan that “These hands didn’t steal anything!”, He could only say this because a folder mysteriously disappeared from the bankruptcy case of Bank Ukraine, the largest state-owned bank, which was the first to collapse in the 90s. The missing folder featured a number of documents signed by Pimple Y., which led to the bankruptcy of the most powerful bank at that time. Where the money went is unknown.
              While at the post of the head of the National Bank (on the eve of his first election campaign, in my opinion), this most honest man was caught illegally placing Ukraine's foreign exchange reserves in foreign banks. At interest, of course. The National Bank's reserves cannot be taken out of the country, of course, these are reserves. The money had to be returned, motivated by concern for the welfare of the state, such as "increased reserves, albeit illegally." But the interest seems to be in his pocket.
              These are only two episodes from the biography of "not stolen".

              Then it became a condom. Then he turned around! .. Pictures from museums are trifles. He, a bastard, removed the air defense systems that covered the nuclear power plant from combat duty and sold it to the friend Sukashvile in Georgia, at a price several times lower than the market price. Less than a tenth of this money went to the treasury. At the end of his career - a demobilization chord: he cut money together with his teacher. He blocked all deposits of the population (violating the Constitution!), And after that he controlledly lowered the rate of the national currency by half. When he gave deposits to the population, they already "weighed" half as much in foreign currency ... You can talk about his achievements for a long time, you can't remember everything. But thanks to this prezik, for example, every visitor is surprised: the street going from the central railway station of the country is named after Stepan Bender.
              Fine?!

              You such Do you need a "smart" leader?

              Or is it still better to have a decent person who cares not only about personal good, but also remembers the people entrusted to him?
              1. Konrad
                Konrad 30 September 2012 08: 24
                0
                Rink,
                Quote: Skating rink
                Do you need such a "smart" leader?

                I don’t. This is your leader and your people chose it.
        2. Asketxnumx
          Asketxnumx 29 September 2012 19: 38
          +1
          Take a deeper look into yourself. You are that ram. Always, at all times, both animals and humans had a leader, a "shepherd." You can't change nature. And there is nothing to pretend to be a superman.
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 08: 26
            0
            Quote: Asket49

            Take a deeper look at yourself. You are that ram

            I’m not a ram, but a man. If you like being a ram, be one.
    2. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 24 September 2012 08: 12
      +38
      but how many were innocent? the author says that there is no evidence for the millions of executed, they shot of course and died, but then the humanistic norms in the whole world were different, everywhere prisoners were shot and not particularly treated
      Stalin achieved a lot and the price was generally adequate to the achievements, given the starting level and the hostile environment
      1. alexng
        alexng 24 September 2012 08: 50
        +25
        I was also embarrassed by the figures for the repressions of the 1937-1939 of the year, so the census data of the 1937 of the year and 1953 of the year say something completely different. In the West, many figures were taken from the ceiling, i.e. a lie for the West is the basis for the existence of big capital. So they cast out over the rest of the world as they want, if only to parasitize longer on the misfortunes of others and fill their pockets. Lies and hypocrisy are the true way of life of the corporate elite of the West.
        1. Zmitcer
          Zmitcer 27 September 2012 01: 45
          -9
          Quote: alexneg
          I was also embarrassed by the figures for the repressions of 1937-1939

          are you confused only by the numbers? death of millions is statistics already? and give all your relatives, friends, friends to the wall. go count, say goodbye.
          1. Rink
            Rink 27 September 2012 12: 06
            +9
            Quote: Zmitcer
            Do only numbers confuse you? death of millions is statistics already? and give all your relatives, friends, friends to the wall. go count, say goodbye.

            Do not rattle, do not pour in millions - closer to the point, as they say.

            This is a well-known liberal-democratic trick, to knock the ground out from under the opponent's feet - to point out the value of human lives, to fill up with fictitious millions (it can be billions - people get used to millions, they are no longer so impressed). Then offer to shoot someone close to you personally - and you're done! the opponent mumbles "of course, I didn't mean that ... don't need relatives!" ...

            When conducting a conversation with demagogues, one must not forget that they skillfully distort numbers and facts. But the most important thing is that they don’t make it clear that there were no alternatives. One does not need to judge those events by today's standards, one does not need to imagine the millions of deaths of children tortured personally by Stalin - these are fabrications and propaganda techniques.
            (There are archives with exact numbers, after all, if the numbers are so important).

            But the most important thing is to understand the realities of that time. The USSR was between two wars, surrounded by hostile countries. The British stirred up the Caucasus, raised the Chechens - this is documented. Sabotage at the factories both by disguised unbeaten White Guards and simply by opponents of the Bolsheviks. Just stealing by dishonest "Loins" ... It was all there. The country itself was in a drastic restructuring ... The industrialization carried out in such surprisingly, it didn’t fail ...

            Ask yourself - 935 thousand people (not 30 million) - is this a lot or a little in such conditions? Of course, every person is a person, any life has value. But ... Are all of the repressed - innocent sheep? weren't there bandits like Bendera among them? weren't there thieves, saboteurs, weren't there real ideological opponents among them, or simply bought "bogs"?

            Ask yourself, in such circumstances, could there be less victims? What were the options?

            If you think that with the advent of Trotsky there would be peace and grace - I recommend that you familiarize yourself with his program of permanent revolution.

            What else remained - to surrender to the British, who sought the revolution to destroy the country? so if we recall the Polish concentration camps for prisoners of war after the First World War, the methods of the British during the Boer War, the idea of ​​German racial superiority, the atrocities of American landing in our Far East, then foreign control in Russia does not seem to be a joyful salvation for our people. Most likely, we would have been fewer now than there were Indians in America ...

            Russia then (as now) had only two options: fight or die. The mobilization of the forces of the entire people for struggle and defense was accompanied by an internal cleansing of the "dissent" - this is a common practice of all states.
            There is no need to make a monster out of Russia, just look at America, our "beacon of democracy." Remember how at the beginning of World War II they put their Japanese citizens in the camps? Remember the political purges in the United States in the early to mid-50s on mere suspicion of sympathy for the communists? Take the history of any country - you will see the same ...
            And the genius of Stalin allowed us to withstand the incredible conditions.
            1. evgen762
              evgen762 29 September 2012 19: 57
              +4
              Again, I repeat. What is one country that did not use a repressive apparatus during its formation?
    3. Ustas
      Ustas 24 September 2012 08: 35
      +15
      Quote: bask
      Stalin was Georgian

      Stalin considered himself more Russian.
      1. valokordin
        valokordin 24 September 2012 09: 30
        +10
        Eustace, even wrote in Russian correctly without errors, not like the current tribe.
      2. vezunchik
        vezunchik 24 September 2012 09: 42
        +20
        In our country, talking about nationality is simply ridiculous! Who is purebred? There are no such! We are all mixed up. Nationalism is an occasion to stir up a civil war!
        1. volcano
          volcano 24 September 2012 10: 18
          -1
          Quote: vezunchik
          In our country, talking about nationality is simply ridiculous! Who is purebred? There are no such!


          Yes, no colleague .. you are very mistaken ....... and the work on the analysis of the DNA of a Russian person, which was completed if I am not mistaken in 2009, this was clearly demonstrated ....

          In dry scientific language, only one conclusion was made ... ... Russians were ... Russians are ... and there are no admixtures or "mixing" at all ... Go to the Internet and ask about the results ...
          1. Funker1981
            Funker1981 24 September 2012 17: 29
            +1
            What is this scientific article called? Read does not hurt.
            1. volcano
              volcano 25 September 2012 08: 49
              0
              YES, type on the Internet "the results of the DNA analysis of a Russian person or the genotype of Russians .... you will find everything
        2. carver
          carver 24 September 2012 10: 41
          +7
          vezunchik,

          How is it that every person is simply obliged to know his nationality or the blood that is mixed in him and be proud of it, the only way we can remember who we are and what we are striving for in this world, and not be universal. And on the account of the multinational state, the strength of the Russians lies precisely in the fact that they can live in peace with everyone who wants to, and those who don’t want can force the world.
          1. alexng
            alexng 27 September 2012 12: 56
            0
            And interestingly, what is nationality? To the body or to the soul?
        3. Nick
          Nick 24 September 2012 10: 55
          +1
          Quote: vezunchik
          In our country, talking about nationality is simply ridiculous! Who is purebred?

          This question, perhaps you can ask in Europe and America, and in Asia too ...
        4. Fox
          Fox 24 September 2012 14: 21
          0
          if you, my dear, are mixed up, then this is YOUR problem. You should not hang it on others! ..
          1. alexng
            alexng 27 September 2012 13: 01
            0
            But it’s interesting, foxes, but if your parents were not Russian, then you would probably strongly resist your birth? Yes?
            1. Asketxnumx
              Asketxnumx 29 September 2012 19: 44
              0
              That's it!
      3. carver
        carver 24 September 2012 10: 36
        +5
        Quote: Ustas
        Stalin considered himself more Russian.


        And most importantly, he bluntly said that the Russian people are the greatest people in the world.
        1. Zmitcer
          Zmitcer 24 September 2012 12: 16
          -33
          It's just that this red-haired dwarf really wanted to be great. And latent gays, or not latent, but explicit, really like such peasants "strong personalities". Well, the fact that millions of people were destroyed does not bother them .. As these "girls" say there: But he is cool! A person, namely a person, not a bipedal animal, and in his right mind cannot say that Stalin, this bloody executioner, is his idol ..
          1. Alexander Petrovich
            Alexander Petrovich 24 September 2012 15: 35
            +5
            Well, here you have the arguments that he is not an executioner, you first try to refute them and then write your rubbish.
          2. Petrix
            Petrix 24 September 2012 16: 10
            +16
            The Soviet Union, under the leadership of Stalin, won the war, and freed Europe from concentration camps, where they skinned people from bags to wallets; did not allow the complete destruction of the Slavs, which Hitler was in a hurry to implement in the occupied territories. Stalin brought the country out of post-war devastation at parity with the United States, which prevented the states from using nuclear weapons with mass deaths of civilians.

            Stalin is an angel compared to Gorbachev and Yeltsin, whose reforms have killed more people than all the victims of repression under Stalin.
            1. Maks111
              Maks111 25 September 2012 12: 27
              -4
              Stalin did not run around the field with a gun. Offensive plans were developed by marshals. To say that Stalin won the war is to say that Medvedev won the war with Georgia.
              1. evgen762
                evgen762 27 September 2012 16: 05
                +2
                Stalin was the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces of the USSR and Chairman of the State Defense Committee
            2. d.gksueyjd
              d.gksueyjd 26 September 2012 18: 24
              +3
              At least in the era of violent and deceitful "democratization" of Russia, it was the innocent people who died. Stalin is not an angel, but what they did: Yeltsin, Chubais, Gaidar, Grachev is worthy of the people's curse and anger!
          3. Klibanophoros
            Klibanophoros 24 September 2012 23: 43
            0
            Zmitcer, would you go from here, cockerel!
          4. Asketxnumx
            Asketxnumx 29 September 2012 19: 47
            0
            Do you think that any leader of the state is "blue and fluffy"?
      4. gorez
        gorez 26 September 2012 18: 20
        +2
        If compared with Mishiko, then really Stalin I.V. more Russian, but the mind and no one to compare. Only the Communist Party can get the country out of the crisis.

        If compared with Mishiko, then really Stalin I.V. more Russian, but the mind and no one to compare. Only the Communist Party can get the country out of the crisis.
        1. V. Salama
          V. Salama 29 September 2012 14: 03
          +1
          Quote: gorez
          Only the Communist Party can get the country out of the crisis.
          I would like to fix it a bit. Only a people adopting a communist ideology, led by the Communist Party, can lead the country out of the crisis. The Communist Party itself will not be able to effectively control the capitalist mode of production, it will not come to power, and power (as the basis of all governance) will not hold, but will only completely discredit the idea of ​​communism.
    4. valokordin
      valokordin 24 September 2012 09: 27
      +11
      Before whom and what is innocent, maybe before Chubais, Gorbachev, Yeltsin and their companies. And who will remember the simple workers of the peasants, communists, who fought for a bright future, killed from around the corner, shot and hanged by the White Guards, Antonovism, gangs of nationalists, Semenovtsy, Bulakh-Balakhovich. Who was first of all destroyed by the enemies of the Soviet regime, why these losses are not published. A philosophical slogan, any revolution is worth something if it knows how to defend itself. The victims of the country are colossal, but if ordinary people defended the interests of social justice, then opponents who now command their selfish selfish interests. Ask the unsinkable Chubais who is dearer to him, whom he serves, who has an advantage for him and who is more equal.
      1. Fox 070
        24 September 2012 09: 44
        +8
        Quote: valokordin
        And who will remember the simple toilers of the peasants, communists, who fought for a brighter future, who were killed from around the corner, shot and hanged

        Okay, Vladimir! This is unformat and don’t pay money for it. And our Judas used to eat deliciously, drink sweetly ...
        Selling the homeland for a barrel of jam and a box of cookies has now become fashionable in liberal circles and a fairly profitable business.
      2. neri73-r
        neri73-r 24 September 2012 11: 48
        +2
        To Rockefeller or Rothschild, one of these two, I forgot to whom exactly. And if from the point of view of religion, then Mamone, the golden calf he has an idol.
        1. Fox 070
          24 September 2012 12: 00
          0
          Quote: neri73-r
          Rockefeller or Rothschild,

          Yes, most likely both, but worships MAMOM, here you are absolutely right! "+"
      3. d.gksueyjd
        d.gksueyjd 26 September 2012 18: 26
        +2
        His roads are not Russia, but American "tugriks"
        1. Konrad
          Konrad 30 September 2012 08: 29
          0
          Quote: d.gksueyjd
          American "tugriks"

          Tugriks in fraternal Mongolia.
          1. Rink
            Rink 30 September 2012 22: 29
            -1
            Quote: Konrad
            Tugriks in fraternal Mongolia.

            Awesome awareness and depth of knowledge! ...
      4. V. Salama
        V. Salama 29 September 2012 14: 05
        0
        I agree. The Red Terror was a response to the White Terror, but they do not want to remember this.
    5. vezunchik
      vezunchik 24 September 2012 09: 38
      +5
      These words can be attributed to the ruling regime, with the exception of scientific and technological progress and the formation of industry. For 20 years, the country has been thrown back to the beginning of the 20th century, and even the sheds have shed - Beria did not dream ...
      1. urzul
        urzul 24 September 2012 09: 46
        -7
        For 20 years, the country has been discarded by the beginning of the 20 century
        Delirium do not carry frank
        1. tan0472
          tan0472 24 September 2012 10: 10
          +10
          [
          Quote: urzul
          For 20 years, the country has been discarded by the beginning of the 20th century. Delirium

          If not "production-technically", then morally and psychologically "it has definitely been discarded.
        2. Vadivak
          Vadivak 24 September 2012 10: 48
          +13
          Quote: urzul
          Delirium do not carry frank


          Who is this nonsense? And that we have something from the domestic for sale? And medicine is at 97 and the standard of living is at 59th place, between Romania and Mongolia.
          1. urzul
            urzul 27 September 2012 11: 42
            -1
            Look at anyone in the hypermarket. over 50% you will find domestic without straining.
            medicine on 97 and the standard of living on 59 place, between Romania and Mongolia.
            Who are the bookkeepers? those with a US AAA credit rating?
            1. V. Salama
              V. Salama 29 September 2012 14: 12
              +1
              Quote: urzul
              Look at anyone in the hypermarket. over 50% you will find domestic without straining.

              We tend to often pass off the achievements of world progress as our own. One adult man cited me as proof that "we had no cell phones before, and it was impossible to buy a foreign car ...".
    6. segamegament
      segamegament 24 September 2012 09: 54
      +22
      according to the archival data of Rosarkhiv NKVD 1936 thousand people were shot during the "purge" of 1948-960. (not counting the war and criminals for war crimes during the Second World War). If something like this is carried out now, a much less impressive figure will cost, but the nasral, wise, Nemtsovs, Chirikovs and other trash will either rot in a pit or chirp from behind a hillock, but the normal population is accustomed to this and it has already developed immunity ...
      1. Zmitcer
        Zmitcer 24 September 2012 11: 54
        -8
        kiss assholes portraits of such criminals, can only latent gays.
        1. segamegament
          segamegament 24 September 2012 13: 39
          +4
          like kissing point oh bald head "progressive" Western standard of crap can only be incapable of computer nerds bloggers ...
        2. Fox
          Fox 24 September 2012 14: 25
          +2
          I didn’t think that there are latent gay men in Belarus ... now I know for sure: ONE IS!
      2. Zmitcer
        Zmitcer 24 September 2012 23: 16
        -17
        http://ru.tsn.ua/foto/istoriya-v-fotografiyah-tragediya-golodomora-1932-1933-god
        ov-v-ukraine.html Take a look. it was not the fascists who did it, but your Stalin. What do you like there?
        1. Rink
          Rink 27 September 2012 01: 01
          +6
          Zmitcer, these Holodomor photo archives are fake, LIPA !!! Spreading cranberries on the ears of the layman ....
          Even under Yushchenko, when he was a condom (so that neither his children nor him would have any happiness!) These photo archives of the photo exhibition caught that These pictures are NOT FROM UKRAINE! At least a part: a significant part of these pictures has nothing to do with Ukraine, they were shot in Russia and even in the USA (!!!). See http://www.fraza.ua/news/23.03.09/65702.html and here http://sevastopol.su/world.php?id=5713... You can read more on your own by googling "Holodomor, fake photos".
          And if at the photo exhibition Ukrainian somehow even turned out to be a famine a couple of "left" pictures from the archives of american intelligence agencies then already the entire gallery is suspicious and requires verification ... Do not find?
          So the anguish about the "Stalinist villainy" could be slightly reduced ...

          PS I will make a reservation that I do not deny the very fact of hunger in 33-34 years.
          Grandfathers and mine (my mother from Zaporozhye), and from my wife's side (from near Kiev) talked about this - living witnesses, not read from newspapers. But apparently the scale of this famine is greatly exaggerated, and these events took place not only in Ukraine.
          1. Zmitcer
            Zmitcer 27 September 2012 01: 50
            -9
            for you, too, the death of millions of statistics. think, well, maybe 100 died, less than they say. aha ... deceivers! yours survived, well, okay, but shit on millions of people. Yes? do you defend "numbers" or executioners? inhumans am
            1. Rink
              Rink 27 September 2012 12: 29
              +5
              Zmitcer, You are a demagogue. No need to convulse over invented "millions", no need to come into the righteous indignation of a bigot. One thing is for sure: the famine was not personally organized by Stalin, simply on a whim.

              Want to figure it out? Do you really want to understand if Stalin is the villain? Then try to understand the causes of those events, and the scenarios.
              If it turns out that the then leadership of the USSR had other response options that would lead to less casualties, then this is a crime, and they should be considered criminals.
              If any other options would only lead to an increase in casualties compared to what it was in reality, then the leadership acted absolutely correctly, and your allegations are unfounded.

              There are realities of life, there are situations that can only be avoided by miracles, magic, but not yours and demagoguery.

              And first, think about it: why put fake photos into photo exhibitions and archives of the Holodomor? WHAT FOR?!!! even one! that, just one of the clerks saw - I liked it, said "oh, cool, I don't have one yet!" and stuffed a photo from the USA or Canada, or from the Russian Buguruslan into his album of the Ukrainian Holodomor? and then why write a lie in the signature?
              Drawing up such photo documents is not a collection of stamps. If appears at least one fake document, the entire archive is subject to verification, because the matter here is unclean: either there are mistakes, and you need to figure out how many of them and what, or we we are dealing with the falsification of the whole phenomenon.

              And until the true state of affairs is clarified, there is nothing to nod at these dubious "evidence".
              1. Konrad
                Konrad 30 September 2012 08: 32
                0
                Quote: Skating rink
                No need to convulse over fictional "millions"

                “A people who do not remember their past have no future”
                1. Rink
                  Rink 30 September 2012 11: 04
                  0
                  Jules Verne and A. Belyaev have also written a lot. Do you also consider all this "our past"? Do not be discouraged! ... In fact, this is all - artistic creation, fantasy.
            2. vovan1949
              vovan1949 30 September 2012 20: 15
              +1
              You zadolbal Zmitcer with your millions. Well, I want to believe you - believe. Why should others - then "noodles" to hang on the ears. Have you read Solzhenitsyn ?. Sorry for being tactless, but it's disgusting to read your comments based on lies.
              1. Zmitcer
                Zmitcer 30 September 2012 21: 34
                -2
                laughing I do not believe, I know. and having access to the Internet, it’s easy to google and find information about the victims of Stalin. He who has eyes, let him see, having a brain, he will understand. Only those like you do not want to know, they only want to believe. Do you believe in the idol of Stalin. This is your religion. Well, we have freedom of religion.
                1. segamegament
                  segamegament 30 September 2012 23: 11
                  +2
                  In the same Internet you can easily find data on the millions of victims of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, Clinton and Bush, Nixon and Roosevelt, what is the difference? Everything in the world is relative (s). But here everything is about the views on the situation, the patriot sees it one by one - correctly, but the enemy and the other in a different way, not right. Your rating says that you are either an enemy or ...
            3. segamegament
              segamegament 30 September 2012 23: 13
              0
              Come on! Professors from Salozhuyskie recently published data on the "yatskaya move" that one and a half billion Ukrainians died during the Holodomor. This is a one hundred percent fact!
      3. Konrad
        Konrad 26 September 2012 20: 47
        -5
        Quote: segamegament
        segamegament
        Remember, love, wait.

        The phenomenon of "slavery", so to speak, can be found in our time. Most of these people are “slaves” in psychology. "Serfdom" has not yet been eliminated and exists everywhere.
        1. segamegament
          segamegament 30 September 2012 23: 07
          +2
          Well, someone is waiting for Nasralny, Mudaltsov and Nemtsov to be president and government, and to Khryusha Obshchak as finance ministers, mostly liberastics with brainwashed. They are certainly NOT slaves, they are democrats having the CHOICE to eat shit or shit. This choice is so great ...
      4. alexdol
        alexdol 29 September 2012 13: 16
        +2
        segamegament (3) RU ".. much less impressive figure will cost ..."
        It's hard to talk about today's numbers, I think that they will exceed those 960 thousand. shot at that time. Today, cleaning is required - CAPITAL, not cosmetic ...
    7. starshina78
      starshina78 24 September 2012 10: 50
      +30
      Young man ! Why young? By the way you wrote this text, you can feel your youth. Stalin was never an "emperor" and a villain, as some scribblers describe him, both here and in the West. This person deserves to be immortalized along with such people as A. Nevsky, M. Lomonosov and other people who lived for Russia and did everything for Russia to prosper and be a powerful state. All the atrocities attributed to him are no more than the lies that Khrushchev created and voiced at the 20th Congress in 1956. This man was afraid of Stalin all his life, as his contemporaries say he almost "licked the dust off Stalin's boots", and speaking at the congress decided to simply take revenge, meanly and slavishly, for the eyes and in the presence of the deceased. Were it not for Stalin, the USSR would not have existed as a powerful industrial state, the winner of fascism, the first state in the world to achieve tremendous success in astronautics, the first state in the world to create an air defense system for the country and Moscow using missile weapons (three air defense rings around Moscow). There is much more to say about Stalin, and you can always start with the words "for the first time." It is a pity that one cannot say so now, under the supposedly "democratic" leadership of the country. Everything that was achieved under Stalin and other leaders of the USSR, was lost, plundered, destroyed, without creating anything, while the haya of those who created everything and under whose leadership it was created.
    8. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 24 September 2012 15: 27
      +8
      Quote: bask
      Stalin was Georgian by nationality

      Yes, even an Ethiopian, now give this
      1. alexng
        alexng 24 September 2012 20: 11
        0
        Quote: bask
        Stalin was Georgian by nationality


        No, not Georgian, but Ossetian.
    9. Rink
      Rink 24 September 2012 18: 00
      +14
      Quote: bask
      Stalin was a Georgian by nationality. ...

      I still remember the surprise when after the school we were told how bad the person was - Stalin, and on the way home we guys immediately met 3 cars with his portrait on the glass! and on the last - invalid Zaporozhets - as many as two, behind and in front. I could not stand the disabled person, I went over to ask why. The man hesitated, not knowing how to explain the little girl in one word, and could only squeeze out, which is not entirely true, what they told us at school. I remember this, it was in 1972.

      And then I realized the following: Stalin was a man of genius. A brilliant administrator, politician, manager, who combined theoretical abilities with practical wisdom and iron will.

      Just think about it: historians believe that Stalin's coming to sole power (sole power - that means the undercover struggle ceased, and Stalin was finally able to start realizing his ideas) happened somewhere from 1926 to 1929. Recall that after the end of the civil war, by 1926, 3 (three!) Years passed (the end of 1922), and the intervention ended in 1925 ... We believe that only 1926 years passed from 1941 to 15 !!! .
      During these 15 years, Stalin literally redrawed the country, turned it all over completely! The urban population has become many times larger due to the reduction of peasants. At the same time, so that famine does not come, Stalin collectivizes - enlarging farms with equipping them with machinery, tractors and combines. Increased labor productivity allowed to feed the increased number of urban population.
      And the peasants who moved to the city studied, became workers and scientists. For this it was necessary to give jobs, that is, to build factories in proportion to the influx of population. Any imbalances would lead to terrible social problems, unemployment, hunger and, ultimately, bloodshed.
      Think about it, the composition of the country has changed dramatically! for several years, almost half of the peasants took off and came to the city! (hence the communal, by the way ....).

      But such a scale transformation was carried out almost filigree. Yes, I think with horror that it would be if, now, modern smart democratic power would have taken so redraw the country! Moreover, provided that the civilian ended only 5-10 years ago, and the population is still full of yesterday’s enemies, and the country is still in ruins .... Since 1991, we all CIS have been floundering for 21 years in this post-perestroika shit , and the success is something far from the Stalin ....

      If you think about the depth of the country's transformations, which are hidden behind the words "collectivization" and "industrialization", then China with its "economic miracle" is simply resting - Stalin brought Russia to second place in the world even before the war (for 15 years!). Against this background, the numbers of real victims of repression (not exaggerated) look puzzlingly small. It's just a miracle what I could do one Stalin.

      Whatever the corrupt and / or narrow-minded historians write, contemporaries assessed Stalin in a completely different way. Read at least the reviews of Churchill and Roosevelt about Stalin - they were not subject to the "personality cult", it seems ...

      Therefore, it does not matter at all whether he was a Georgian, an Ossetian, or the son of "Prizhivalsky". This was the man who saved Russia. A person who first thought about the state, and then about the personal. The man, who didn't stealpossessing absolute power. Compare with modern figures, compare with yourself - maybe you will blush, from what you say about him with the words of our enemies ?! maybe a little conscience wakes up?
      1. Rink
        Rink 24 September 2012 18: 07
        +4
        PS By the way, an interesting fact: I read that starting from a certain year (I don’t remember exactly) Stalin wrote “Russian” in all and any questionnaires in the column “nationality”. Despite the fact that the whole country, every inhabitant knew about his Caucasian origin. That is, it can hardly be called an attempt to deceive someone. What would that mean, what did he mean? Stalin emphasized his international character? then it would be easier to put a dash.
        I do not understand.
        1. alexng
          alexng 24 September 2012 20: 17
          +3
          And under Stalin, an ordinary engineer received a salary 2,6 times higher than the highest paid worker. Mot therefore, with him, the country's industry has always developed rapidly.
        2. Isr
          Isr 25 September 2012 00: 55
          -18
          Yes, everything is clear. He abandoned internationalism, dispersed the International and moved on to Russian Nazism. Hitler then licked it from him (or he from Hitler). Hitler was not German, like Stalin, he was a man from the outside, but it was necessary to prove that he was the very German, and so was Stalin. He even forbade the Georgian artist to play himself in the cinema, demanded that he be played by Russian, Nazi in one word.
          1. Rink
            Rink 25 September 2012 02: 00
            +6
            Quote: Isr
            Hitler was not a German ....

            Yes, we know, we know ... He was an Austrian Jew. You do not forget your own ...
            1. Isr
              Isr 25 September 2012 11: 11
              -6
              No, it's you yours. Again with a finger to the sky.
        3. V. Salama
          V. Salama 29 September 2012 14: 28
          +1
          Quote: Skating rink
          Stalin emphasized his international character? then it would be easier to put a dash.
          I do not understand.
          He himself answered this question in the following way (according to eyewitnesses) I don’t remember the source: “I am a Russian person of Georgian nationality”. He did not make explanations (at least I don’t know), but I think as a recognized specialist in the theory of the national question, he wanted, thereby, to show the system-forming role of the Russian nation and remove some excesses in the practice of national policy. In any case, putting a dash is wrong. This was considered correct by this authority.
          1. bachast
            bachast 29 September 2012 15: 23
            +1
            recognized specialist in the theory of the national question

            Gorgeous! This is the first time I've ever seen such a thing! Tell me, who recognized and most importantly, what is the theory of sowing?
            1. V. Salama
              V. Salama 1 October 2012 11: 57
              0
              Quote: bachast
              This is the first time I've ever seen such a thing!
              Not surprisingly, each of us still does not know much, especially if there is no desire to figure it out.
              Quote: bachast
              Tell me, who recognized and most importantly, what is the theory of sowing?
              Recognized primarily by experts on this issue, it is clear that not all (let's not rassmate about the partisanship of science). What is the theory? - partly in his work "Marxism and the National Question".
          2. Zmitcer
            Zmitcer 29 September 2012 15: 58
            -1
            Quote: V. Salama
            but I think as a recognized specialist in the theory of the national question,

            laughing I ended up doing stupid things that I comment on this nonsense of yours .. I could not resist. Particularly funny, the beginning of the phrase: I think .... Oh, how !!! wassat what other titles do you think he has: the first astronaut? Doctor of all sciences? the best athlete of the USSR? chief proctologist, obstetrician and so on and so on ... oh .. I certainly watched movies about zombies, but I did not know that they exist. Well it is necessary so to break a brain about Stalin ..
            1. Rink
              Rink 29 September 2012 16: 19
              +1
              Quote: Zmitcer
              I ended up doing stupid things to comment on ....

              Yes, nothing, nothing ... You are constantly doing these nonsense here. We are already used to it.
              Next time you don’t even have to apologize.
            2. Konrad
              Konrad 30 September 2012 13: 53
              -2
              Quote: Zmitcer
              what else do you think he has

              Still, laughing best friend of pioneers and senior citizens! laughing laughing
              1. V. Salama
                V. Salama 1 October 2012 13: 02
                0
                Quote: Konrad
                Also, the best friend of pioneers and senior citizens!
                He was definitely not an enemy for them, but the question was about the national question and the results of its solution. If there is anything to object to, point out the wrong steps - I’ll delve into it with pleasure. Why not listen to a smart person?
            3. V. Salama
              V. Salama 1 October 2012 12: 54
              0
              “I’m doing a stupid thing to comment on this nonsense of yours .. I couldn’t resist. Especially funny,” this is to hear from a person who did not bother to delve into the subject under discussion and managed to break his brain on a one-sided assessment, mostly clearly biased.
    10. Isr
      Isr 24 September 2012 23: 51
      -6
      Quote: bask
      Stalin, of course, made a lot of tactical mistakes, but strategically turned out to be a cut above the then politicians of the whole world. He beat them all and won not only the war, but also defended socialism, which later spread to one third of the world. Under Stalin, the Soviet Union became a superpower. What is the price? - Scary. But I would like to know what the current critics of Stalin would have done at that time? And by the way, I probably know. Would sell Russia even to Hitler, though Churchill, though to Roosevelt. Because it is precisely this very people that they hate.

      Wrong formulation of the question. If it were not for Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, etc., then everything would be different. There would be no Hitler, no "tactical mistakes", no war, no "socialism", no Holodomor, no Holocaust, no purges, no Gulag, in concentration camps. Everything would be different.
      1. Rink
        Rink 25 September 2012 00: 39
        +10
        Quote: Isr
        ..... If it were not for Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, etc., then everything would be different. There would be no Hitler, no "tactical mistakes", no war, no "socialism", no Holodomor, no Holocaust, no purges, no Gulag, in concentration camps. Everything would be different.

        They didn’t start from there!
        If there were no Britain - then there would be no revolution of 1917, no Lenin, no Hitler coming to power, and so on according to your text.
        But the Anglo-Saxons wanted to rule the world, and Russia was too attractive, a huge piece of cake.
        The British intelligence services organized for us both a revolution and an intervention. From whatever direction the colonialists tried to crawl (the Far East, and Murmansk, and the Kola Peninsula, both in Central Asia and Ukraine) - everywhere they got in the face from a Russian peasant. Thereafter they brought Hitler to power, intending to aim him at Russia.

        And do not blame someone for healthy!
        All the horrors of the 20th century, the millions of those killed, the concentration camps, crematoriums and Hiroshima - all on the conscience of the union of the leading powers of that time - France and America with Britain at the head.

        And the fault of Russia is only that it survived!
        But even in our time - look: nothing has changed !!! The same "faces", the same plans .... Only England and its vassal USA have changed places + France, but they are just as jarred as before when they see Russia on the map. Just like Ostap Bender, who considered the ruble in the wrong hands as a personal insult, so these "democrats" cannot sleep peacefully while Russia is independent. How much wealth, and all this is not theirs !!! And they walk and wander around our perimeter, then bite, then pinch ... They tease the bear.
        Tease, perhaps ...
        1. Isr
          Isr 25 September 2012 00: 50
          -5
          Quote: Skating rink
          And do not blame someone for healthy!


          Only the "Russian peasants" with Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky at the head are to blame for everything. Where were the concentration camps in France and America with Great Britain? They weren't there. And they appeared only in Russia. Russia is the birthplace of concentration camps and fascism, and Hitler was still in prison at that time.

          Read more correct books, study, do not let yourself fool your head with "patriotic" nonsense.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 25 September 2012 01: 00
            +3
            You confuse a lot of historical details. The first concentration camps in modern history - the Boer War.

            Fascism is a completely separate story.
            1. Isr
              Isr 25 September 2012 13: 20
              -2
              You are certainly right. But there was a war. We discussed the application of this tool in a broader sense to our own people. What does the Russian-language wiki say about this:
              a term denoting a specially equipped center for mass forced detention and maintenance of the following categories of citizens of different countries:
              1. prisoners of war and interned during the war;
              2. political prisoners under certain dictatorial regimes, out of court;
              3. persons deprived of their liberty on a national or other basis;
              4. hostages, usually during civil wars or occupation;
              5. Intended for liquidation in extermination camps in Nazi Germany and the USSR.
              As you can see, only the first point comes to the Boer War (1899-1902).
              I cannot confuse "many historical details" for the simple reason that I use these concepts in a broad sense, without details. And fascism, officially, was born in Italy. But I refer to this ugly phenomenon as the movement of the Black Hundreds and the like.
              1. evgen762
                evgen762 27 September 2012 16: 17
                +4
                When the USA entered the war after the unexpected attack of Japan on Pearl Harbor, about 5 thousand American Japanese served in military units, and the vast majority were disqualified, despite their American citizenship. Secret intelligence reports of an existing underground espionage organization for Japan, consisting of immigrants and their descendants in the first and second generations, led to a continuing investigation, already with a search of enterprises and an invasion of private houses. In the end, the Minister of War convinced President Franklin Roosevelt to take action against ethnic Japanese living in the United States.

                On February 19, 1942, the president signed Order No. 9066, according to which 120 Americans of Japanese descent, both former and non-US citizens who lived less than 200 miles from the Pacific coast, were to be resettled in special camps.

                American society was also overwhelmed by nationalist hysteria. Most of the demands came from farmers and politicians from the west coast, where the Japanese population was concentrated. In this case, farmers aimed to reduce competition, and politicians to gain popularity by playing on public fears. It should be noted that of the 120 thousand people of Japanese origin who were in the United States at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, about 80 thousand were born in America and were US citizens, most of the rest were legal immigrants. In addition, half of the total number was children.

                Many Japanese had to leave home within 48 hours, leaving all their savings, work, and in some cases relatives, when family members were placed in different camps. 10 camps, called by F. Roosevelt himself "concentration", were located in seven states: California, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado and Arkansas. The first, Manzanar, was opened March 21, 1942 in California.

                Buildings in the camps were barracks without piping and heating. One building, where the bathroom was located, accounted for 250 people. Many prisoners were dying from unsanitary conditions, as well as the emotional stress they were constantly exposed to. The camps were surrounded by barbed wire and guarded around the clock.

                Or for an example

                During World War II, the Finnish army occupied eastern Karelia, where concentration camps were created for Soviet citizens of Slavic origin. The first camp was founded on October 24, 1941 in Petrozavodsk.

                Number of prisoners in Finnish concentration camps:

                * 13,400 - December 31, 1941
                * 21,984 - July 1, 1942
                * 15,241 - January 1, 1943
                * 14,917 - January 1, 1944

                In total, 13 Finnish concentration camps operated in eastern Karelia, through which 30 thousand people from prisoners of war and the Russian population of Karelia passed. About a third of them died. [10] In the camps corporal punishment (rods) and the application of identification tattoos were used.

                and which country do not dig the same
              2. Gur
                Gur 28 September 2012 08: 44
                +3
                Why did they take such a small period of history, start with Egypt, fascism started from there, mass slavery of Jews, massacre of infants. (Point 3 is obviously also suitable there) France, burning Jews at the stake under Philip 4. (point 2) And in everything, as always Jews are to blame. If they had not crucified Jesus, there would not have been so much persecution of the Jews, and they would not have scattered all over the world, and would not have led Russia (which was more loyal to them than anywhere else in the world) to revolution, in Trotsky Bukharin, Sverdlov, and so on, which were the first initiators of repression and purges. (this is approximately according to your concept)
              3. V. Salama
                V. Salama 29 September 2012 15: 00
                0
                Quote: Isr
                We discussed the application of this tool in a broader sense to our own people. What does the Russian-language wiki say about this:
                Yes, of course, in civilized countries they did not bother with political opponents and criminals, they organized, at one time, in civilized Europe a "night of long knives" and 40 thousand people like a cow with their tongue ...
                And the Russian-language wiki, it is only that the Russian-language one - they are masters here (when necessary) to fill the concepts with their (necessary) content, you just have to find the "problem" term.
          2. Rink
            Rink 25 September 2012 01: 15
            +8
            Trotsky is Leiba Bronstein. It's hard to call him a Russian peasant.

            Jews in the Russian revolution played a special role in general. In the NKVD, they accounted for up to 50%, and even more in the detachments. Obviously, such "work" is to your liking, in the national character of the "eternal people"?

            And as usual with criminals and liars, they rewrite all their deeds on their victims: - "It was not me, it was he who hit me first!" You also unfoundedly hang your achievements on Russia, out of the fierce hatred of an ideological enemy. Concentration camps in Poland existed even before Stalin came to power, and they were invented by the United States - the teachers of democracy there finished off the real masters of North America. The British poured blood in rivers, read what they did in India or Bengal. Fascism was invented by Italy, and the Jews were FALSE.

            And here you do exactly what you know best. Now beautiful terms have been invented for this, such as "ideological sabotage", "information war" ... But the essence of this does not change: the bullshit remains bullshit.

            In "virtual", unfortunately, everything is allowed - impunity corrupts such liars as you. In real life, if you had said this in front of me, you would not have finished this phrase. You need to answer for the words ...
            1. Isr
              Isr 25 September 2012 11: 17
              -6
              The position of Russian patriots is simple and understandable. Stalin is a Georgian Jew, Lenin is a Russian Jew, Trotsky is a Jewish Jew, they did everything wrong, and we, patriots, had nothing to do with it, we were told we did it. We never had enough of our own head for something sensible. They told everyone to rob, we robbed everyone, they told us to starve, we starved. We are not to blame, the most guilty is Trotsky, although he was far away, but how can a patriot not kick a Jewish Jew? Impunity corrupts liars like you, but the essence of this does not change: dog nonsense remains dog nonsense.
              1. DYMITRY
                DYMITRY 25 September 2012 12: 06
                +1
                Isr
                It is because of Jews like you that they call Zh.Y.D.A.M.I. And anti-Semitism, also only because of people like you.
              2. Zmitcer
                Zmitcer 25 September 2012 12: 47
                -9
                Quote: Isr
                We are not to blame

                And the fools are always guilty, the other "fool" just not himself. And during the Stalinist repressions, the "fool" was the one against whom the denunciation was written. Or who actually turned out to be smarter, and against his background, a real doo.rak also looked like a clown.
          3. d.gksueyjd
            d.gksueyjd 26 September 2012 18: 37
            +3
            You are wrong the first extermination camps appeared in the "democratic" America and tens of mil were destroyed in them. people. That's right, my friend, learn history!
            1. Rink
              Rink 27 September 2012 01: 19
              +4
              Quote: d.gksueyjd
              ..... the first extermination camps appeared in "democratic" America ....

              "Democratic" America finally found concentration camps easy. Like two fingers ...
              America began with the genocide of the Indians and the invention of "reservations" (what was later called a "concentration camp") and real Negro slavery.

              But even in the 20th century, the Pindos were easy on the rise ... As soon as hostilities began with Japan (Pearl Harbor), all the US citizens of Japanese origin were sent to concentration camps all over America. Without putting forward any accusations, without wasting time on judicial procedures ... This is not a despot-Stalin, this is free America! It was enough to have 1/8 of Japanese blood - and life in a concentration camp is guaranteed for you, no matter what post you held ...

              And about the paranoia of the beginning of the 50s and to remember is somehow inconvenient. At the slightest denunciation of a neighbor, who suspects that you are "red" or simply sympathize with them - and you are back in .... concentration camps!

              America is an amazing country! But I was not used to notice logs in my eye, but my memory is so short! ...
          4. revnagan
            revnagan 26 September 2012 21: 52
            +5
            Quote: Isr
            Where were the concentration camps in France and America with Britain? There were none.

            Yes, in Transvaal, in the 19th century. That's right, not in England. On the land of the Boers. But the British just organized them (concentration camps). For the Boers. It's an invention of Naglich, Izya. Eat matzoh and learn the materiel.
            1. evgen762
              evgen762 27 September 2012 16: 22
              +5
              All the same, in America. In the photo is not a prisoner of Buchenwald or Auschwitz, this is a prisoner of Andersonville concentration camp, USA 1864.
          5. V. Salama
            V. Salama 29 September 2012 14: 38
            +1
            Quote: Isr
            Russia is the birthplace of concentration camps and fascism, ...
            Sorry, but you should have read the right books. The birthplace of concentration camps and fascism is America. There is such a word - "reservation" and the disappeared indigenous population (according to European scientists - 145 million Indians) as a result of genocide. Ask what kind of science this is - "Eugenics" and where it originated. Hitler made this teaching the basis of his theory and practice.
            Quote: Isr
            do not let yourself fool your head with "patriotic" nonsense.
            that is, it is not clear only from the position of the interests of which patriotic country ...
      2. Maks111
        Maks111 25 September 2012 12: 32
        -8
        [quote] [/ Wrong formulation of the question. If it were not for Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, etc., then everything would be different. There would be no Hitler, no "tactical mistakes", no war, no "socialism", no Holodomor, no Holocaust, no purges, no Gulag, in concentration camps. Everything would be different. Quote] I absolutely agree. All this red shobla-sent Cossacks by the German government. The fact that the revolution was sponsored by Germany and a number of other countries is already a fact.
        1. V. Salama
          V. Salama 29 September 2012 15: 03
          +1
          Quote: Max111
          The fact that the revolution was sponsored by Germany and a number of countries is already a fact.
          Firstly, not a fact; there are no such facts in nature. Secondly, what kind of revolution are we talking about7
        2. vovan1949
          vovan1949 30 September 2012 20: 33
          -1
          Where does such illiteracy come from? Grandmas in the bazaar said?
    11. Maks111
      Maks111 25 September 2012 12: 43
      -8
      Typical reaction of the Communists and Stalinists. you are all enemies of the people, employees of the CIA, malicious desidents. We are patriotic patriots who know brilliantly history, and you are pathetic ignoramuses. Although in fact komunyaki read one or two articles often written by komunyaki, and objective facts including documents are called delirium and paid.
      1. Gur
        Gur 28 September 2012 08: 53
        +2
        Well, about mishandled, still so. And here you are, that's for sure. No Mlyn, we are ready to believe everything that your masters from the west have come up with. You are now the most patriotic patriots, selling everything to which only hands reach. And if only there would be, to hell with two, you can only dream about what would happen. And deny, and can not imagine what could have been worse. And then throughout history, everyone loved Russia so much and kissed in the ass?
      2. V. Salama
        V. Salama 29 September 2012 15: 06
        -1
        Quote: Max111
        We are patriotic patriots who know brilliantly history, and you are pathetic ignoramuses.

        False conceit. The main thing is unsubstantiated, especially about "objective facts, including documents."
    12. V. Salama
      V. Salama 29 September 2012 12: 45
      0
      Quote: bask
      But innocent victims and repressions can not be proved, not by any merit. Each ruined life could be your life.

      According to the results of the work of the international commission (published in particular in the AMF), during the entire period of Stalinism, 3,5 million of the "repressed" were killed. Question: is it a lot or a little for that harsh time? Compare with today, for example. The second question is about "innocent victims". The innocent suffer always and everywhere, and therefore the death penalty is abolished in advanced societies. What was their share during the Stalinist era? That's what we're talking about. Give a specific example for discussion, and perhaps everything will become clear. I have relatives "repressed" in those days and rehabilitated in the 90s (lists were published in the regional newspaper). But there were living witnesses of their deeds. So you need to be more careful with innocence and more specific.
      I don’t understand what nationality has to do with it, but just in case there is evidence of how Stalin himself answered questions asked about this: “I am a Russian of Georgian nationality”. Misha Saakashvili never dreamed of a nightmare ...
  2. TRex
    TRex 24 September 2012 07: 48
    -19
    Article is not finished?
    I do not consider myself an "anti-Stalinist" and I recognize the great role of this person in history ... Especially - the industrialization of the country, victory in the war, the receipt of nuclear weapons by the USSR, etc.
    But I want to ask the author: what do you know about purges in the army? How many commanders of regiments, divisions, corps were repressed? How many marshals?
    And just do not talk about the ideological struggle, Trotskyism and other bullshit - this could take place only in the highest echelon of power. In our country in 1937, 100% of the commanders of regiments and divisions were Trotskyists?
    1. Fox 070
      24 September 2012 08: 13
      +5
      Quote: TRex
      . In our country in 1937, 100% of the commanders of regiments and divisions were Trotskyists?

      And what, in 1937 100% of the commanders of regiments and divisions were repressed? You probably made a mistake in the assessment. request
      1. TRex
        TRex 24 September 2012 08: 29
        -9
        According to a modern study by the doctor of historical sciences O. F. Suvenirov, from the Red Army in 1937-1939 and the Navy in 1937 (until December 1937 the Navy was subordinate to the People’s Commissariat of Defense), 28.685 representatives of the command and control staff were dismissed for political reasons without taking into account those dismissed from the Air Force; 1937 of them were arrested in 1939-9579 for political reasons. In addition, according to information cited by him from the Air Force of the Red Army for the same period, 5616 were fired, but it is not known how many of them were fired for political reasons and how many were arrested. According to Souvenir, 1590 people were arrested. The number of dismissed and arrested officers of the USSR Navy in 1938-1939 is also unknown. The number of those arrested after dismissal from the Red Army is also unknown. As noted by O. F. Souvenir, their number is less than the number of all those dismissed for political reasons [18].

        The number of repressed representatives of the highest command staff of the Red Army based on the calculations of Doctor of History O. F. Souvenir [19]:
        No. p / p Category of the highest command staff of the Red Army. Served in the service in the Red Army in 1936. Died in 1937-1941. Returned from prison alive. Total number of victims. Percentage repressed in relation to the number of commanders of the Red Army, 1936.
        Shot Died in custody Committed suicide
        1. Marshals of the Soviet Union 5 2 1 - - 3 60
        2. Commandos of the 1st and 2nd rank 15 19 - - 1 20 [20] 133
        3. Flagships of the fleet of the 1st and 2nd rank 4 5 - - - 5 125
        4. Lumps 62 58 4 2 5 69 112,6
        5. Flagships of the 1st rank 6 5 - - 1 6 100
        6. Divisions 201 122 9 22 153 76
        7. Kombrigi 474 201 15 1 30 247 52,1
        In general, the highest command staff of the Red Army 767 412 29 3 59 503 65,6

        As follows from the table, the 1st and 2nd rank commanders and the flagships of the 1st and 2nd rank fleet were repressed more than 100% in relation to the number of 1936, that is, even the newly made to these ranks for the indicated period. All this led to a significant undermining of the potential of the Red Army, and already thoroughly weakened by the repressions of the 1920s - early 30s. against former officers of the army of the Russian Empire

        This is terror against your own army. No arguing against the facts.
        1. Fox 070
          24 September 2012 08: 51
          +23
          Quote: TRex
          According to a modern study by the doctor of historical sciences O. F. Souvenir,

          Do not repeat the mistakes of ardent anti-Stalinists. Studies of this nerd from the historical science of Souvenir are well paid. Of course, there were excesses, but not on such a scale. Real numbers are ten times smaller. Take off the anti-Stalinist blinkers and read at least something else about it. And there were souvenirs, there are, and, unfortunately, there will be an audience with them, most likely, will remain. UNFORTUNATELY...
          Quote: TRex
          No arguing against the facts.

          These are not facts, but pure insensation. As soon as I call myself Academician Popov and post an article on the Internet with large numbers of Stalinist repressions, and in a day the entire "progressive" world will refer to me as the truth of the first instance.
          You do the same.
          1. Zmitcer
            Zmitcer 25 September 2012 12: 37
            -6
            Quote: Fox 070
            These are not facts, but pure insenuations.
            So, where are the people ?????
            If you think it's not true, tell me where are they? There is something to say, or turn on your record again - this is an innuendo ...Besides lying, is there anything to say?
            1. Generalissimus
              Generalissimus 28 September 2012 13: 15
              +2
              Quote: Zmitcer
              So, where are the people ?????
              If you think it's not true, tell me where are they? There is something to say, or turn on your record again - this is an innuendo ... Except for lying, is there anything to say?




              1. Konrad
                Konrad 28 September 2012 18: 17
                -3
                Quote: Generalissimus
                . Besides lying, have something to say?

                Just stupid.
                1. Generalissimus
                  Generalissimus 28 September 2012 22: 34
                  +1
                  Quote: Konrad
                  Just stupid

                  Stupid-this is when about hundreds of millions of personally tortured by Stalin.
                  And the pictures are not stupidity, but reality.
                  1. Konrad
                    Konrad 29 September 2012 14: 15
                    -1
                    Quote: Generalissimus
                    And the pictures are not stupidity, but reality.

                    For petty dirty tricks 5 +
            2. V. Salama
              V. Salama 1 October 2012 13: 14
              +1
              Quote: Zmitcer
              So, where are the people ?????
              If you think it's not true, tell me where are they? ... Besides lying, have anything to say?
              According to the results of the work of the international commission for the entire period of Stalinism, the total number of victims of the repressed 3,5 million people. Where does the number of 30 million people come from? explained A. Wasserman - multiple duplicate accounting, which was used by interested parties. For example, Solzhenitsin offered his own logic - "if the authorities hide data, then we have the right to name any number ..."
              About "besides lying, have something to say?" When I received the Chubais voucher, there were 170 million of us Russians, now barely 141 million (together with migrants). So, where are the people, have something to say?
        2. Mr. Truth
          Mr. Truth 24 September 2012 09: 19
          +6
          Yeah, clearing the army of people who were preparing to fight with gas, infantry, saber, three-ruler, three-inch and a horse against the Germans, the horror is simple.
          1. DIMS
            DIMS 24 September 2012 09: 29
            +6
            Did Voroshilov and Budyon be shot?
        3. Vadivak
          Vadivak 24 September 2012 09: 21
          +7
          Quote: TRex
          No arguing against the facts.


          Nikolai be careful (and more closely - at the end of the post) with Souvenir,
          These "scientists" each have their own data
          So. V.S. Koval believes that the entire officer corps has died55; L.A. Kirshner, however, believes that only 50% of the officers were repressed. D. A. Volkogonov and D. M. Projector write about 40 thousand repressed. A. M. Samsonov - about 43 thousand. N. M. Ramanichev - about 44 thousand .. Yu. A. Gorkov - about 48 773. G. A. Kumanev - about 50 thousand. 57 In the book of V. N. Rapoport and Yu.A. Geller, about 100 thousand officers are mentioned, however, only 651 repressed, i.e. 64. 8% of the highest command staff as of January 1, 1937 are given. ABOUT . F. Souvenirs gives a list for 749 people.

          A. T. Ukolov and V. I. Ivkin, based on data from the judicial authorities of the Red Army, note that in 1937-1939. approximately 8624 people were convicted of political crimes, indicating that it is hardly worth referring to the repressed convicts for criminal and moral crimes. In his newest study ABOUT . F. Souvenirs writes about 1634 dead and about 3682 convicted by military courts in 1936-1941. for counter-revolutionary crimes to officers.

          In addition, Souvenir published a list of the so-called repressed for 1936 - 1941, in which the names of 1669 people and all. Neither 100 thousand, nor even 40 thousand - about which Volkogonov, Proektor, Ramanichev and others indicate, but only 1669 for 5 years, and all of them were punishers: commissioners, lawyers, NKVD officers, heads of concentration camps. They only wore military ranks, but were not military.
          1. 8 company
            8 company 24 September 2012 10: 25
            -8
            Quote: Vadivak
            all of them were punishers: commissioners, lawyers, NKVD employees, and heads of concentration camps. They only wore military ranks, but were not military.


            Why lie so frankly? Anyone can go to rkka.ru and in the Encyclopedia section see the lists of executed military leaders of the Red Army with short biographies. Punishers there are less than a percent, and commissars no more than 5%.
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 24 September 2012 10: 39
              +11
              Quote: Company 8
              and in the section Encyclopedia


              So what? there is still an Internet Encyclopedia of great people, there your beloved Solzhenitsyn walks in the great,
              1. 8 company
                8 company 24 September 2012 10: 58
                -17
                Quote: Vadivak
                So what? there is still an Internet Encyclopedia of great people, there your beloved Solzhenitsyn walks in the great,


                Where Solzhenitsyn to you, frantic fans of Dzhugashvili. Swims finely. By the degree of fooling the people, Stalin and the Stalinists will give everyone a head start.
                1. T72B
                  T72B 24 September 2012 11: 15
                  -5
                  The couple rushing Andyushka in the morning not on detski. And the priest rolls pearls from the CPSU program poorly processed in a new manner.
                  1. Vadivak
                    Vadivak 24 September 2012 11: 58
                    +5
                    Quote: T72Б
                    And the priest rolls pearls poorly processed in a new manner


                    Past political, haunted, knight of language and fountain pen
                    1. 8 company
                      8 company 24 September 2012 12: 12
                      -1
                      Quote: Vadivak
                      Past political, haunted, knight of language and fountain pen


                      Poor things, as usual, there’s nothing to say on the matter, now you’ll scold the political leaders for a couple from T-72 until the evening, and at night you will have a nightmare: hordes of political officers surround you and suck all the blood to the drop, and you both turn into political ones. Ohhhhhhhh ... wassat
                      1. T72B
                        T72B 24 September 2012 12: 20
                        +5
                        Quote: 8 company
                        and at night you will have a nightmare: hordes of metropolitans surround you and suck all the blood to a drop, and both of you also turn into metropolitans. Ohhhhhhhh ...


                        Andreiko, something your fantasy has become impoverished. I remember you abruptly wrapped up at party meetings. Are you getting old?
                      2. 8 company
                        8 company 24 September 2012 12: 29
                        -3
                        Quote: T72Б
                        I remember you abruptly wrapped up at party meetings.


                        Could you give an example? And then you promise everything, scare, and the specifics - zilch. I must make sure that you are really my fellow soldier in Kunduz, and suddenly you are lying.
                      3. Alexander Petrovich
                        Alexander Petrovich 24 September 2012 15: 39
                        +2
                        don't judge by yourself, Comrade Politruk. [
                      4. Vadivak
                        Vadivak 24 September 2012 12: 29
                        +4
                        Quote: Company 8
                        hordes of politicians surround you and suck all the blood

                        It is true that these ghouls drank a lot of blood, ate the vodka themselves and with the women muttered and we were guided by the true glory of the CPSU
                    2. T72B
                      T72B 24 September 2012 12: 24
                      +1
                      Quote: Vadivak
                      Past political, haunted, knight of language and fountain pen


                      This is genetics ...
                2. Vadivak
                  Vadivak 24 September 2012 11: 57
                  +6
                  Quote: Company 8
                  Where Solzhenitsyn to you


                  We, unlike you, understand thanks to whom the Soviet Union survived and we appeared, and you would all have to deal with the Nazis in the gums
                  1. Konrad
                    Konrad 26 September 2012 20: 41
                    -1
                    Quote: Vadivak
                    We, unlike you, understand thanks to whom the USSR survived

                    Thanks to our hero soldier!
                3. Alexander Petrovich
                  Alexander Petrovich 24 September 2012 15: 38
                  +5
                  Well, no, Comrade Politruk, here you have gone a little too far, the most outspoken liars are Western politicians, of course, Stalin and the Stalinists are very far from them.
                4. Petrix
                  Petrix 24 September 2012 16: 34
                  +11
                  And how did Stalin fool the people? Robbed a millionaire right? And they say after themselves only the boots left, and then worn. And before the eyes of the people, power was growing and even prices were dropping. I wish they would have deceived me like this: I would have come to the store, and there, damn it, everything became cheaper. What to do with loot?
                  1. Rink
                    Rink 24 September 2012 18: 33
                    +10
                    Quote: Petrix
                    And how did Stalin fool the people? Robbed a millionaire right? And they say after themselves only the boots left, and then worn.

                    No, what are you !!! Why are there just boots ?! He also had a well-worn jacket, a pipe and a personal library of 15000 volumes - all read, worked out by Stalin, with notes in the margins ...
                    Yes, a bunch of volumes of his own composition.
                    Here's how "profited"!

                    This is not the current generation of leaders that only Facebook reads on Twitter and writes through the donated iPhone ....
            2. T72B
              T72B 24 September 2012 11: 18
              +4
              Quote: Company 8
              Why lie so frankly?


              Andrei, this question is most likely addressed to you.
              1. 8 company
                8 company 24 September 2012 13: 30
                -2
                Quote: T72Б
                Andrei, this question is most likely addressed to you.


                Something you "did not notice" my question on Kunduz. I repeat: what can you say about our service in Kunduz, eh, fellow soldier? Something you are too stubbornly evading an answer.
        4. valokordin
          valokordin 24 September 2012 09: 34
          +8
          From where 521 Marshal all of them were at that moment 5 of which 3 were shot and Souvenirs, this same Suvorov a liar and a limber. No arguing against the facts.
          1. TRex
            TRex 24 September 2012 10: 38
            -6
            Five marshals, five ... take it easy. You have not considered the tablet correctly, or rather, it was not compiled correctly.
            And this is not a fact: "In June 1937, a trial was held against a group of senior officers of the Red Army, including Mikhail Tukhachevsky. The accused were charged with preparing a military coup, scheduled for May 15, 1937. Subsequently, the Soviet leadership carried out large-scale repressions against a significant part of the command staff of the Red Army. It is noteworthy that out of eight people who were part of the Special Judicial Presence of the Supreme Court of the USSR, which sentenced the accused in the "Tukhachevsky case" to death, five (Blucher, Belov, Dybenko, Alksnis and Kashirin) were themselves subsequently shot. "

            The time was dashing, bloody ... and the mustachioed hands put it here unambiguously. Or, he, white and fluffy, the first head of state, did not know anything, did not know - what do his ghouls do? How to destroy the top leadership of the Red Army? Marshal Blucher, a civilian hero, a legendary person - died in prison from torture and beatings ... Yes, how many there were ... And how difficult it was in the first months of the war against damned fascism - without commanders, without heroes, without faith.
            Where was Stalin on June 22nd? Why didn’t he appeal to the people?
            1. wax
              wax 24 September 2012 11: 22
              +6
              Molotov addressed the people. And not on my own behalf, but on behalf of the party and government. that was enough. Stalin had to speak more seriously and programmatically, which he did later. Another leader, another time, not that now - continuous squealing in all information media, but what's the point? - the devaluation of words is complete. Count how many times Stagin addressed the people directly for the entire war.
          2. carver
            carver 24 September 2012 10: 49
            +1
            valokordin,

            Yeah, but in the entire history of the USSR there were only 41 of them.
        5. Petrix
          Petrix 24 September 2012 16: 20
          +2
          And if so, the question is: Did Stalin possess the fullness of real power? After all, there was a 5th column and competitors. In a country where civil war was still booming, there was a lot of disagreement. So they settled accounts with each other.
        6. Rink
          Rink 24 September 2012 18: 18
          +5
          Quote: TRex
          This is terror against your own army. No arguing against the facts.

          The figures cited by pseudo-historians are skillfully inflated. In addition, the art of half-truths, under-lies has been mastered by the media and the "popularizers" of science to perfection. You don't have to believe everything.

          The very fact of cleansing on the eve of the war was true.

          But look at the modern army?
          Generals steal, heads of strategic defense enterprises have some vague firms in California, for some reason, military warehouses are constantly on fire (a defect is best hidden by a fire, remember, at least "Operation Y"? The classics don't lie.) General's wives are somewhere they climb to lead, while disrupting the work of the defense industry ...

          Don't you want to take it all and clean it ?! Just think a little: On the eve of the war, Stalin simply "tightened the screws." And by the way, the traitor Rezun is right in some ways: we meet a lot of names from the lists of the "repressed" command staff in leading positions already during the Patriotic War. This means that he was not always repressed = shot. And for what to imprison, our generals and divisional commanders - there are always. Not to mention the ensigns ...
    2. V. Salama
      V. Salama 29 September 2012 15: 09
      0
      Quote: TRex
      But I want to ask the author: what do you know about purges in the army? How many commanders of regiments, divisions, corps were repressed? How many marshals?

      I want to ask you, what do you know about this? Especially about the Trotskyists, how do you define them?
  3. Committee
    Committee 24 September 2012 07: 50
    +16
    The "de-Stalinization" announced by the fifth column a couple of years ago is a clear and direct threat to the history of our country. And if there is no history, there is no future. More articles like this!
    1. baskoy
      baskoy 24 September 2012 09: 56
      +9
      De-Stalinization has been going on since the 50s of the PAST century! Several generations were born! And these "goblins" can't do anything! And it won't work!
      1. I-16M
        I-16M 28 September 2012 13: 20
        +2
        His role in history is too great; he has done a lot for the country.
  4. Horde
    Horde 24 September 2012 07: 59
    +8
    When they begin to give real figures of those years on dispossession and gulags, it becomes clear with all clarity who all these Solzhenitsins, Medvedevs, Volkogonovs with their ideological father Khrushchev are simply anti-Soviet falsifiers of history who hated not only communism, but also everything Russian. The method they used is simple, to increase at times all the victims of the class struggle, where there were thousands, speak millions, where millions speak tens of millions, thereby distorting the real picture.
  5. itr
    itr 24 September 2012 08: 18
    +5
    In Russia, as I understand it, there were only three Great Leaders Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great and Stalin. In any case, they left a huge imprint on history. And for some reason, most of all loved and at the same moment hated by people. But to achieve the goals and objectives set for themselves, these heroes did not spare even their sons. In fact, for sure, no one knows what happened then. Now it’s just not possible. But the fact on the face with these gentlemen, the country was on the rise. Although here I read that Peter the first third of the population either died or fled in the forests. So there is one conclusion. The worst time is a time of great change. And whether they are bad or good, it’s already too late to think. Gotta live now
    1. tan0472
      tan0472 24 September 2012 08: 58
      +4
      Quote: itr
      In Russia, as I understand it, it was only three great leaders

      Name other countries in which over the past 1000 years there were "only" three great leaders like those listed above.
      1. DYMITRY
        DYMITRY 24 September 2012 09: 06
        +2
        Quote: tan0472
        What are the countries in which over the past 1000 years there have been at least two great leaders like the ones listed above.

        Good day colleague.
        I thought about your question, and could only remember France. Bonaparte and Richelieu.
        1. Fox 070
          24 September 2012 09: 14
          +5
          Quote: DYMITRY
          could only remember France. Bonaparte and Richelieu.

          "+" And both were covered in blood up to their ears, but for some reason no one in France creates anti-Bonapartist or anti-Relief movements and processes are not underway to rehabilitate the victims of these politicians. Strange, isn't it?
          1. tan0472
            tan0472 24 September 2012 09: 27
            +4
            Quote: Fox 070
            but for some reason no one in France creates anti-Bonapartist or anti-religious movements and processes are underway to rehabilitate the victims of these politicians.

            What is possible for "civilized" Europeans is not permissible for barbarians from Russia.
            More people were massacred in one Bartholomew's night than in the entire time of Ivan the Terrible. But foreigners invent, and our "historians" support myths about "atrocities". Recently I saw such material on TV 3. (I think TV 3 belongs to Potanin.)
            1. Fox 070
              24 September 2012 09: 51
              +2
              Quote: tan0472
              foreigners invent, and our "historians" support myths about "atrocities".

              I think that "ours" invent no less. At least as active and with a twinkle. Apparently, they organized a competition - whoever lies more beautifully about Stalin's "repressions" will receive not 30 pieces of silver, but also a bonus in the form of a personal scholarship from the State Department. fellow
        2. tan0472
          tan0472 24 September 2012 09: 21
          +1
          Quote: DYMITRY
          Bonaparte and Richelieu.


          That's it.
          Good morning. hi
        3. wax
          wax 24 September 2012 11: 26
          +1
          Karl the 12th (it seems) in Sweden, Bismarck in Germany, Roosevelt in the USA.
          1. tan0472
            tan0472 24 September 2012 15: 14
            0
            Quote: Wax
            Karl the 12th (it seems) in Sweden, Bismarck in Germany, Roosevelt in the USA.

            I meant in one country.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 September 2012 09: 07
      +5
      Quote: itr
      Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great and Stalin V


      Petya was very fond of Germans, unlike the other two, and serfdom was declared as hereditary dependence. in other words, he introduced slavery in Russia for Russians (until Peter the serfs had rights, in any case they could not be sold like cattle). It was under Peter that corruption reached unprecedented proportions. It was he who invented and dispatched triad military courts throughout the country, which were judged not according to the law, but according to the concepts: “according to common sense and justice”. He used to solder people, he was accustomed to debauchery in general, he was a European and taught others
      1. itr
        itr 24 September 2012 09: 09
        +1
        Courts of the triple ???? and in wartime, who judges ???
      2. Fox 070
        24 September 2012 09: 20
        -2
        Quote: Vadivak
        Petya was very fond of Germans

        Regarding Peter the Great, not everything is as simple as historians try to show us. There is an opinion that under this name there were two completely different people.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 24 September 2012 09: 39
          +2
          False Dmitry?
        2. Horde
          Horde 24 September 2012 17: 54
          0
          Regarding Peter the Great, not everything is as simple as historians try to show us. There is an opinion that under this name there were two completely different people.


          Plagiarism! Theft from Fomenko and Nosovsky the book "The Fictional Tsar and the Fake Tsar". Levashov, the author of the film, is a thief! Not only is the thief also a liar called Bayer, Miller and Schloetzer "great Russian historiographers in the film", apparently for this this film was created.

          Levashov Nikolai recently died 2012, he lived unrighteously, an occultist in life and after death, as they say, it is better not to say anything.
      3. wax
        wax 24 September 2012 11: 31
        +1
        You cannot judge the past by the standards of the present. This is about the same as criticizing the device of a biplane of the beginning of the 20th century, based on the device of a 5th generation fighter.
        1. Fox 070
          24 September 2012 11: 49
          -3
          Quote: Wax
          You cannot judge the past by the standards of the present.

          But it (the past) must be assessed from the height of the past years, because "the big is seen at a distance."
      4. Galina
        Galina 24 September 2012 15: 29
        +3
        Dear Vadivak, here and now, at the moment, depending on likes or dislikes (in particular, you don’t love Peter the Great), and not from love of truth, another falsification is taking place. You attribute to Peter the Great the introduction of serfdom. But that's a lie. I quote the well-known: "And only under Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich, the Cathedral Code of 1649 establishes an indefinite attachment to the land (that is, the impossibility of a peasant exit) and a fortress to the owner (that is, the owner's power over the peasant who is on his land)." A textbook example. There are many sources, even a school history textbook. (I don’t know about troikas. I haven’t come across information. But I tend not to trust)
        So with the rest of the story. It is sad. Everyone is involved in the lie. Even those whom I here on the site trusted.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 24 September 2012 16: 20
          +1
          Quote: Galina
          depending on likes or dislikes


          You are right Galina Vasilievna, I generally hate "blue blood", tsars, princes and other hereditary upstarts and bloodsuckers. they put on a German dress, but remained with the same concepts as with beards and an old dress. " In Europe, there was no longer slavery, but we have a tsar-reformer damn it ...
          1. darkman70
            darkman70 24 September 2012 19: 49
            +1
            Peter created a great power. If not for him, perhaps there would never have been that great empire that we know. And he worked on this himself, not sparing his life and showing an example in everything. And the fact that he loved the Germans and hated the Russians is nonsense, invented during his life by reactionary clergy, which Peter really did not like. He needed progress, he needed to modernize the country, build a new army, and the clergy resisted this. For the same modernization of the army and the construction of the fleet, experienced specialists were needed, and in large numbers, and in Russia at the time the reforms began, there was not a single higher educational institution. And in Western Europe they were already everywhere. It was a shame simply. The country then drastically lagged behind. What was needed was a push, which, in the absence of its cadres, was often often provided at first by the Germans and other foreigners.
            And Chernyshevsky wrote nonsense.
    3. Fox
      Fox 24 September 2012 14: 33
      -2
      parsley hated everything Russian .... is that great?
      1. darkman70
        darkman70 24 September 2012 19: 51
        +1
        Do not write nonsense. Read better Pushkin's notes about Peter, you will better understand his personality.
  6. ekebastus
    ekebastus 24 September 2012 08: 25
    +18
    “Many of the affairs of our party and people will be perverted and spat on, above all, abroad, and in our country too. Zionism, striving for world domination, will cruelly avenge us for our successes and achievements. He still sees Russia as a barbaric country, as raw appendage. And my name will also be slandered, slandered. Many atrocities will be attributed to me.

    World Zionism will by all means strive to destroy our Union so that Russia can never rise again. The strength of the USSR lies in the friendship of peoples. The edge of the struggle will be aimed primarily at breaking this friendship, at breaking off the outskirts of Russia. Here, I must admit, we have not done everything yet. There is still a big field of work.
    Nationalism will raise its head with particular force. He will crush internationalism and patriotism for a while, only for a while. National groups within nations and conflicts will arise. Many pygmy leaders will appear, traitors within their nations.
    In general, in the future development will go more complex and even frantic ways, the turns will be extremely steep. The point is that the East will be particularly upset. There will be sharp contradictions with the West.

    And yet, no matter how the events develop, time will pass, and the eyes of new generations will be turned to the deeds and victories of our socialist Fatherland. Year after year, new generations will come. They will once again raise the banner of their fathers and grandfathers and give us their due. They will build their future on our past. "

    I. Stalin. From the recording of the conversation with A.M. Kollontai, November 1939
    Source: http://grachev62.narod.ru/stalin/t18/t18_267.htm
  7. gregor6549
    gregor6549 24 September 2012 08: 31
    +8
    All myths about the incompetent villain Stalin were invented by those who a) hopelessly lost a wicked fight with him like Trotsky, Tukhachevsky and others like that, and b) his closest associates like Khrushchev and Zhukov, who tried to shift their responsibility for their own mediocrity and bloody crimes against his own people and army on anyone, and especially on Stalin.
    Yes, Uncle Churchill and his comrades outplayed Stalin and pushed his forehead against Hitler before the Cr Army was ready to defeat both. But if Stalin (albeit on bones and blood) had not created the army, industry and agriculture that were created in the USSR by the beginning of the war, then Hitler would have reached not only Moscow and Leningrad, but also Vladivostok and beyond. Those. just the case when the Western model of democracy as an alternative to the Stalinist dictatorship could ruin the USSR and even the whole world. Very similar to what is happening now. All attempts to forcefully introduce the Western model of democracy in countries with "dictatorial" regimes lead to the fact that instead of dictators these countries are seized by hordes of bandits, and the citizens of these countries longingly remember their "terrible" dictators "like Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, etc.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 September 2012 08: 58
      +7
      Quote: gregor6549
      Uncle Churchill and his comrades outplayed Stalin and pushed his forehead with Hitler


      Hess did not fly there in vain, and it was not in vain that he was strangled before leaving the prison, he just opened his mouth — I’ll say everything about the beginning of the war — and hanged myself
      1. wax
        wax 24 September 2012 11: 44
        +9
        It was Stalin who outplayed Churchill - despite the fact that Churchill was a staunch anti-communist and did everything to direct the war to the east, Stalin harnessed him to the anti-Hitler coalition not in words but in deeds. And almost after the war he brought the USSR into space with a nuclear and hydrogen bomb. If Stalin had another 50 years of his life, neither the United States nor any other country would blather before the power and influence of the USSR. The strength created by Stalin (the people under his leadership) was so great that it took half a century to disintegrate it with the help of the very fifth column, which he mercilessly destroyed, but which is continuously reproduced under the influence of the outside as long as the countries are in a hostile environment and the ball is ruled by money.
        1. gregor6549
          gregor6549 24 September 2012 17: 33
          +2
          Again inaccurate. It was Churchill who said that Great Britain has neither permanent friends nor permanent enemies, but only permanent national interests. Therefore, he was ready to help anyone, including Stalin, if only to weaken Hitler and prevent him from defeating Stalin. But along the way, weaken Stalin so that he does not have a desire to crush Britain under him. And immediately after the end of World War II, he spoke in Fulton with an appeal to the whole West to be strong because in his opinion, Stalin respects and understands only power. Those. the balance of power was invented by him. But while he invented this balance and other antidotes against Stalin, Great Britain was crushed by the states that had strengthened during the war, and the great British empire quickly died and Churchill himself was dismissed. Now the States are already exhausted and replaced by a young, ambitious and gaining strength day by day China, which, unlike the States, is unfortunately no counterweight. So far Russia is not drawn to such a counterbalance, and there is no other Stalin yet and it is not known whether it will be. And it would be necessary, oh, how it is necessary, despite the fact that several of my relatives perished in the Gulag. I even smell skin from Australia, and I have it not only sensitive to the sun
          1. Horde
            Horde 24 September 2012 19: 04
            +1
            again inaccurate. It was Churchill who said that Great Britain has neither permanent friends nor permanent enemies, but only permanent national interests.


            even before Churchill

            "We have neither permanent enemies, nor permanent friends," wrote the two-time British Prime Minister Henry Palmerston to Queen Victoria, "we only have permanent interests ..."
            1. gregor6549
              gregor6549 24 September 2012 19: 19
              +1
              OK. even to Churchill, especially since I don’t relate myself to his fans. although I respect as an intelligent and decisive man who managed to raise his country to Hitler to fight back, which is already a bull ready to surrender to Hitler's mercy, as France had surrendered.
    2. Bigriver
      Bigriver 24 September 2012 12: 08
      -1
      Churchill could not play against Stalin until 1940.
      Before him, Chamberlain was prime minister in the 30s.
      1. gregor6549
        gregor6549 24 September 2012 19: 21
        +1
        And what, only prime ministers play such games?
        1. Bigriver
          Bigriver 25 September 2012 07: 10
          +2
          No.
          The specific policy of shaving in Europe and the attitude towards Russia was already over a hundred years old before the age of 41.
          And Stalin and Soviet Russia have nothing to do with it. Moreover, geopolitics. For a strong Russia, Britons are always enemies. Regardless of the ideology of the country.
  8. Kurdalagon
    Kurdalagon 24 September 2012 08: 32
    +6
    Khrushchev poured so much dirt on Stalin that we still have to wash it off his portrait for a long time.
    Lenin showed how to manage. Stalin showed how to manage. Khrushchev showed that every fool can rule. Brezhnev showed that not every fool can rule. - An old Soviet joke.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 September 2012 08: 56
      +9
      Quote: Kurdalagon
      Brezhnev showed that not every fool can control

      In my opinion there - Brezhnev showed that you can’t rule the country, but oh well, about dirt, Stalin back in 43 (Golovanov) said - I know that after my death a lot of garbage will be put on my grave, but the wind of history will mercilessly dispel.
      1. evgen762
        evgen762 29 September 2012 00: 20
        0
        He knew. GREAT PERSON!
  9. ekebastus
    ekebastus 24 September 2012 08: 36
    +2
    Stalin's "repressions" ...
    http://koly-mygotin.livejournal.com/19404.html
    1. tarks
      tarks 24 September 2012 10: 37
      0
      exactly. benchmarking is a very useful thing.
  10. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 24 September 2012 08: 43
    +4
    this man from an agrarian country made a nuclear power, I would even say a nuclear empire ... and history is like a prostitute who pays, rules the ball and perverts it like 2 fingers, sorry, describe ... the same Americans think that the Russians bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and they won Berlin and World War 2 ... what can I say ...
  11. Professor
    Professor 24 September 2012 08: 50
    -14
    It's just not Stalin, but Mother Teresa turns out. It's strange how other countries (including nuclear ones), without such a genius, "got into the people"? request
    At this rate, they will soon write to us that there were no repressions at all ...
    Agitation (article) - a fat minus. negative
    1. ekebastus
      ekebastus 24 September 2012 08: 57
      +13
      and got out due to the robbery of the colonies ....
      In Bengal (1943), under Churchill, 2,5 million people were killed and in India, Churchill organized a famine for 80 million Indians. Churchill began his career by suppressing the Jose Marti uprising in Cuba and punitive operations in Sudan against Latinos and Negroes who did nothing wrong to him. Then he participated in the genocide of the Boers. Then, as best he could, strangled the Irish, Somalis, Rhodesians and Indians. He drove hungry Kenyans from the land, sent thousands of English street children to Australian labor colonies, bombed refugees in Dresden, sterilized (castrated) 100 thousand "inferior Irish" and imprisoned them in special concentration camps. About the Hindus, he said: "A stupid race, saved only by its reproduction from the fate it deserves." Back in 1937, Churchill taught tolerantly: "I do not believe that injustice has been committed against the aborigines of Australia - a wiser, cleaner race came and took their place ...".
      But no one condemns the crimes of Churchillism and no one rehabilitates the victims of Churchill repressions and does not call Churchill a criminal, tyrant, murderer and executioner. No one demolishes his monument in London ...
      If only in other insufficiently civilized countries they would soon learn to respect their historical figures in this way.
      1. scientist cat
        scientist cat 24 September 2012 20: 21
        -3
        ekebastus,

        But no one condemns the crimes of Churchillism and no one rehabilitates the victims of Churchill repressions and does not call Churchill a criminal, tyrant, murderer and executioner. No one demolishes his monument in London ...


        Both Stalin and Churchill dictators with their hands to the elbow in blood.
        But the difference is that Stalin spread rot on the population of his country, so your example with Churchill is incorrect.
    2. Fox 070
      24 September 2012 09: 03
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      Agitation (article) - a fat minus.

      I would like to put to you, dear professor, a fat minus on all your paperwork, but, unfortunately, this is not in my competence. And thank Moses that you have excellent support on this site, otherwise you would go with skulls on uniform (which suits you better), and not in the general rank. negative
      1. Professor
        Professor 24 September 2012 09: 14
        -1
        No, not that ... I cry and cry ... laughing
        I wish I was still up against the wall for dissent, why not an "enemy of the people"?
        1. Fox 070
          24 September 2012 09: 34
          +2
          Quote: Professor
          Why not "the enemy of the people"?

          You know, for the entire time of your visit to the site, I agree with you for the first time! "+" This is the first correct thought written by you. I congratulate you, dear!
          Quote: Professor
          I wish I had another wall for dissent

          Oh, it would be nice, but here's the bad luck - the highest measure in our country has been canceled. And in your country? bully
        2. tarks
          tarks 24 September 2012 10: 40
          0
          dissent is a useful thing! Mother Teresa's mother had other tasks.
      2. bachast
        bachast 24 September 2012 11: 14
        -1
        What have you decided again? There is something to answer, prove or ignore. You start to get personal, show disrespect. Look for a Jewish trace. You will finally go crazy on shards. Have you decided to show your authority?
        1. Fox 070
          24 September 2012 11: 31
          -4
          Quote: bachast
          What did you take off again?

          Good day to you, ISAAC, I do not wish, but I can wish you health (you really need it, having rumpled yours, ISAAC will prostate) I promised not to offend you anymore, provided that you, ISAAC, would not cling to me like a bath sheet to one place. Therefore, be so kind as to sit in your hole and do not even look in my direction, otherwise it’s not an hour, run into a child’s pendal and, as has already been said, run to complain about the site’s administration. All the wrong to you, ISAAC!
          With disrespect, FOX 070! hi
          1. bachast
            bachast 24 September 2012 12: 17
            0
            I don’t cling. I read the topic with interest, but came to your comment. Why should people be rude if he thinks differently? Well, if you can prove with facts that the Professor is wrong. It will be interesting to read.
            Don't scare the pendal,"the cop won't take a wolf"
            For prostatitis you are in vain. I didn’t say that I was sick (or even so), I said that the floor of the platoon was cold and they were cold without sitting at the computer. Let's good luck!
          2. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 08: 43
            -2
            Quote: Fox 070
            Sincerely, FOX 070
    3. mar.tira
      mar.tira 24 September 2012 09: 09
      0
      Quote: Professor
      It’s just not Stalin, but Mother Teresa turns out.

      It’s true that the professor, though not your friend, but I agree, so that there would be no such articles, the authors should live among repressed people. Understand their thinking and visit the environment in which we lived. In fear and horror, for fate their young helpless, eternally hungry children, women and old people. Who ate a quinoa mixed with frozen potatoes. And this is in Siberia, not on the territory of the Union occupied by the Germans. When the family father cannot help her with anything. Since he is deprived of this privilege of being a father and defender. There was one Mr. Stalin, and his servant, the commandant. Who could shoot any man and justify his actions by defending Socialist values. So when he is in our shoes, I dare to assure you that thinking will be different! I wrote earlier that I was I still witness how the corpses of people who died from starvation and disease, people shot were washed from the taiga river spring. I want him to watch it too!
      1. Petrix
        Petrix 24 September 2012 17: 03
        +3
        Quote: mar.tira
        When the family father cannot help her with anything

        I agree, this is terrible. But the Crusades on behalf of God took place, and now Islamist radicals are hiding behind God. There were enough bastards. And in the 50s, too, did people suffer from Stalin? Or did he put things in order?
      2. Konrad
        Konrad 30 September 2012 13: 59
        -3
        Quote: mar.tira
        . I want him to watch it too!

        Stalinists - deaf-deaf-mute! With the last defect, the error came out, you can’t call them dumb in any way.
    4. Kurdalagon
      Kurdalagon 24 September 2012 09: 09
      +3
      No, Mother Teresa hasn’t done so much for our country. And the repressions were, only they were motivated not by the special bloodthirstiness of Stalin, but by historical necessity, no matter how valuable this sounds.
      1. Professor
        Professor 24 September 2012 09: 17
        0
        How would you speak if "by historical necessity": would you motivate (God forbid) the shooting of your father, the brutal torture of your mother (I don't even want to stutter about children)?
        1. Kurdalagon
          Kurdalagon 24 September 2012 09: 34
          +1
          He would speak negatively. And no one can say that repression was normal. But their scale is greatly exaggerated. And Lenin with Sverdlov and Dzerzhinsky was shot no less than the innocent.
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 08: 46
            -2
            Quote: Kurdalagon
            . And Lenin with Sverdlov and Dzerzhinsky was shot no less than the innocent.

            One gang of killers!
        2. Vadivak
          Vadivak 24 September 2012 09: 54
          +4
          Quote: Professor
          the shooting of your father, the brutal torture of your mother (I don’t even want to stutter about the children)

          And you do not know where our (not your) country is in the ranking of countries for health reasons - at 97, immediately after East Timor
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 05
            0
            Quote: Vadivak
            And you do not know where our (not your) country is in the ranking of countries for health reasons - at 97, immediately after East Timor

            It is sad that YOUR country for health reasons is at 97, right after East Timor. How did you bring her to such as you allowed?
        3. Ruslan
          Ruslan 24 September 2012 09: 58
          +6
          Quote: Professor
          How would you speak if "by historical necessity": would you motivate (God forbid) the shooting of your father, the brutal torture of your mother (I don't even want to stutter about children)?
          And how would you speak if someone from your family would be sick and die and have no money for treatment - however, you don’t care about the main thing for your green papers to be taken out of the country so that America and Israel live - the troubles of other nations
    5. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 September 2012 09: 44
      +11
      Quote: Professor
      Mother Teresa turns out.


      Not mother - father (of peoples), but there were repressions, there was no freedom, there was no drug addiction, there was no prostitution, there was no corruption, there was not much homosexuality, but the army was
    6. valokordin
      valokordin 24 September 2012 09: 44
      +7
      Professor, what are you professor? Nobody considers Stalin Theresa, there were no repressions, but laws established for that period, i.e. the right of the dictatorship of the proletariat. Surrounded by real enemies from all sides, in the presence of external enemies, it was impossible to save the country in other ways. With democracy, our country collapsed, with further democracy, the words of the great democratess of Novodvorskaya about Russia within the Moscow Region will fall apart and come true. Do you go for it?
      1. Professor
        Professor 24 September 2012 10: 19
        +1
        I was told tales about "enemies around" from childhood, but when I first visited the West I was stunned by the fact that people for generations simply live like human beings, and do not fight enemies like in North Korea, and those who do not want to fight enemies "to trying to escape "...
        1. Konrad
          Konrad 30 September 2012 08: 50
          -1
          Quote: Professor

          I was told tales about "enemies around"

          Similarly! I support at 100% !!!!!!!!
        2. Rink
          Rink 1 October 2012 18: 06
          0
          Quote: Professor
          I have been told tales about "enemies around" since childhood, but when I first visited the West I was stunned by the fact that people for generations simply live like human beings, and do not fight enemies like in North Korea ...
          Yes, it might seem so when you first met.
          And if you live longer (for example, in West Germany), you understand that most of the people are apolitical 1.) due to their narrow horizons and specific education, 2.) because they are stupidly afraid of losing their jobs, because whole life - on credit, lost a job - hang yourself!

          As for a quiet life, without struggle and fear, I can say that the squealing of the Germans and other Western Europeans is developed to extremes.
          "A man who pulls the curtains in the evening is suspicious! We don't know what he's doing, let's knock on the police!" is the norm of life. They even got used to changing clothes with the curtains open.
          And when talking to a foreigner, it is noticeable that the market is being filtered. However, there are topics that they don't even discuss among themselves. Politics, for example, is one of the "slippery" topics, and they try not to spread about it with those unfamiliar.
  12. omsbon
    omsbon 24 September 2012 08: 56
    +5
    "He accepted Russia with a plow, but passed it with a nuclear bomb" - it seems that the fat Churchill said when he learned about Stalin's death. A great man and great deeds, but only positive or negative politicians, but there are simply no people!
  13. DYMITRY
    DYMITRY 24 September 2012 09: 02
    +9
    It always amazes me that the same people scream about the "bloody executioner" Stalin, and about the billions of those who were shot personally by him, and they immediately suggest that officials, traffic cops, communal servicemen should be shot (emphasize the necessary, write in the missing). Shoot for corruption, treason, etc. etc. And for some reason they don't realize that I.V. Stalin did just that. No, all were exceptionally innocent sheep, only in the 90s did the wrestling alcoholic teach how to steal. They are very fond of citing scientists and designers as an example of innocent victims. just a textbook example of S.P. Korolyov. Everyone knows that he was in prison, everyone claims that he is an innocent victim, and no one wants to raise the case. And the fact is that during the consideration of the case, it turns out that an innocent sheep does not work. The Queen was imprisoned for misuse of budget funds on an especially large scale, by the way, it is still a criminal offense. The government instructed Sergei Pavlovich to develop cruise missiles, he also spent up to 90% of the funds on the development of the future "seven". At that moment (mid-30s) it was absolutely unnecessary, because throwing a couple of tons of TNT over an intercontinental distance is pointless. Tupolev was jailed banally for a bribe. If you raise cases, there are only a few innocent people. And again, there was a denunciation behind every landing. And the denunciations were written not by Stalin or Beria.
    And finally, an example from family history. My great-grandfather served as the head of the protection of the gold mine in the Urals. Naturally an employee of the NKVD, in considerable ranks. In 1932 he shot himself. Not so long ago, a book in memory of victims of political repression fell into my hands, and so my great-grandfather appears there as a victim. Meanwhile, he shot himself because of something completely unrelated to politics. A shortage of almost a pound of gold was discovered at the mine. We don’t know why Motivov decided to get out of the situation, but the reason was precisely gold, no politics.
    1. FID
      FID 24 September 2012 09: 15
      +15
      I want to add. If you look geographically, the number of the repressed and their descendants grows with decreasing distance to Moscow. The closer to Moscow, the greater the number of Stalin's "victims". And already within the Garden Ring ... Also, according to the property qualification: the more secure a person is, the more he blasphemes our past. Paradox! He taught + to almost everyone.
      1. Fox 070
        24 September 2012 09: 37
        0
        Quote: SSI
        He instructed + almost everyone.

        And the professor too? belay
        1. FID
          FID 24 September 2012 09: 46
          +11
          No, the professor is not. A few figures: the population in the RSFSR in 1990 - 148 million, 2009 - 142 million, 2012 - 143 million. Over 20 years, a decrease in population by 5 million and this is in PEACE time, and this, given the growing migration, and given the fast increase in the number (birth rate) of the Muslim population (mostly visitors). Is this not genocide? Or am I misunderstanding something?
          1. Fox 070
            24 September 2012 10: 06
            +6
            Quote: SSI
            Is this not genocide? Or am I misunderstanding something?

            What are you, Sergey! Of course this is not genocide! This is a planned (according to the plans of Mrs. Techer) reduction of the Russian population to 15 million people. That is how much, in her opinion, is necessary to maintain the infrastructure of mineral deposits in our territory. Everyone else (again in her opinion) "undesirable for living in the above territory".
            The top of humanism and humanity, is not it ???
            1. FID
              FID 24 September 2012 11: 19
              +9
              Then, they scare us with Stalinism completely purposefully. And it is unfortunate that some are being led to this!
              1. Fox 070
                24 September 2012 11: 40
                +1
                Quote: SSI
                , they scare us with Stalinism completely purposefully.

                Absolutely! Stalinism, or rather the goal that he pursued during state building, has not lost its relevance to this day and can become the very unifying national idea that is able to unite our society and lead the country out of that fetid pit called "democracy and liberalism" , into which the Jews are persistently pushing us. By abandoning this pernicious liberal ideology, we will be able to return the country to its power and faith in the future. good
            2. Konrad
              Konrad 30 September 2012 08: 56
              -1
              Quote: SSI
              according to the plans of Mrs. Techer

              It will be right - Thatcher Margaret.
              1. Rink
                Rink 30 September 2012 11: 13
                0
                Quote: Konrad
                It will be right - Thatcher Margaret.

                Nooo ...
                It will be correct to judge her, "humanist" and "democrat" by the international court immediately after she published such plans publicly.
                1. Konrad
                  Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 10
                  -2
                  Quote: Skating rink
                  It will be correct to JUDGE her, "humanist" and "democrat" by an international court

                  Thank God in international court people are adequate.
                  1. Rink
                    Rink 1 October 2012 13: 04
                    +1
                    Quote: Konrad
                    Thank God in international court people are adequate.

                    That's just this and the hope that they are not bought yet and do not think double-standard, like the majority of modern "human rights activists" and "humanists" ... So they will be able to "appreciate" the words of Iron Masha, and select the appropriate article.

                    PS Although why "iron" ?! in my opinion "oak" suits her better ...
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak 24 September 2012 10: 11
            +8
            Quote: SSI
            Or am I doing something


            Something, for sure, capitalism in Russia is merciless in relation to its own population, now freedom from everything, from conscience, from God ....
    2. Konrad
      Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 08
      -1
      Quote: DYMITRY
      screaming about the "bloody executioner" Stalin, and about a billion personally shot by him

      Billion !!! Well, you turned it down!
      1. Zmitcer
        Zmitcer 30 September 2012 15: 26
        -2
        what's the difference. If one person is killed, then a killer. or do the Stalinists think otherwise? up to 100 million do not count? you have strange concepts guys I look. one was killed by a criminal, 20 million were the leader. I somehow feel uneasy. Are you humans, or a herd of zombies?
  14. tan0472
    tan0472 24 September 2012 09: 14
    +6
    The cat didn’t live with us for long, but
    Annie stepped on shit!
    And there was a consequence, and there was a process
    And the dirty cat was suddenly gone.
    My friend, you will understand, if not d.u.r.a.k.
    What were maybe not so wrong
    And the triples quick trial, and the Stalinist gulag.

  15. Readme
    Readme 24 September 2012 09: 41
    -5
    Stalin drove entire peoples into exile, referring to the fact that they are "enemies of the people," but after all, every nationality has its own "freaks". Representatives of the repressed peoples were even removed from the front, and even in spite of their titles, medals, orders, only by nationality. And the fact that after him there were pluses (victory, a nuclear bomb, industry, etc.), so with such an attitude towards those living on the territory of the USSR, all these bonuses could have been achieved by anyone else, and there is no need to justify him with these benefits.
    1. Fox 070
      24 September 2012 10: 13
      +4
      Quote: Readme
      so with such an attitude towards those living on the territory of the USSR all these bonuses could be achieved by any other, and it is not necessary to justify it with these benefits.

      And who is this "any other"? After HIM came the "maize" Khrushchev and what did he achieve? Or maybe Brezhnev ... or Yeltsin? Continue the list? Or maybe you should be put at the helm of the state, because the cook can ... manage ?!
      1. Konrad
        Konrad 30 September 2012 09: 02
        -1
        Quote: Fox 070
        the cook can ... manage

        So claimed the Bolsheviks. So we got better ...
        1. Rink
          Rink 30 September 2012 11: 19
          -1
          Quote: Konrad
          So claimed the Bolsheviks. So we got better ...


          KonradDo you really think that in Pindostana, presidents are smarter than our cooks ?! cooks - and they know why windows do not open on planes.
          laughing
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 12
            -1
            Quote: Skating rink
            in Pindostana, presidents are smarter

            Where is it and what is it?
        2. V. Salama
          V. Salama 1 October 2012 13: 33
          -1
          After all, a cook can ... manage
          Quote: Konrad
          So claimed the Bolsheviks.
          Again you twist, or maybe because the subject was studied by the "yellow" press. In a true democracy, even a cook should be able to run a state that is designed to protect her interests as well. Even today, our Constitution says that "... the only source of power in the Russian Federation is the people." Tell me, what is this about?
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 24 September 2012 10: 16
      +5
      Do you think the Americans are democrats who deported the Japanese to concentration camps on their territory. This is not a reference of peoples, but 3 million Spaniards, inter-brigade members, Jews, Germans and other peoples, including the French in more than 60 concentration camps for the period 1938. to 1946 in France, this is democracy, military necessity or repression against the peoples of the Readmeth answer. You yourself are not repressed?
    3. Konrad
      Konrad 30 September 2012 09: 00
      -2
      Quote: Readme
      every nation has its own "freaks"

      That paranoid and misanthrope Stalin was such a sick freak !.
      1. Rink
        Rink 30 September 2012 11: 27
        0
        Quote: Konrad
        That paranoid and misanthrope Stalin was such a sick freak !.


        Stalin is a symbol of a strong and independent Russia. And this is the only reason for your hatred of him.
  16. gregor6549
    gregor6549 24 September 2012 09: 45
    +6
    Nobody removes the blame for the repression from Stalin. But is he only to blame for them and are not those who in batches wrote denunciations of their colleagues, neighbors and relatives, hoping that they will only come for those, and they will remain white and fluffy, are not to blame for them. Then they came for them. And there were more than enough of such white and fluffy ones at all levels, and the higher the level, the more powerful the "knock" was. And when the war began, then many of those who remained in the occupied territory with the same and even great zeal already "knocked" on the Germans and not only "knocked" in the form of denunciations, but also took clubs in their hands and knocked on the heads of those with whom they were lived for a long time nearby, who taught and treated their children. And sometimes they knocked because of a pair of rags or a horse clamp. At one time I had the opportunity to read works and even communicate with Belarusian writers Ales Adamovich and Vasil Bykov. I am Belarusian, but I was ashamed of many of my compatriots, who, as it turned out, were often a much bigger beast than the SS Germans from the Sonderkommando. So Stalin is not the only thing. Even Stalin was accused of repressions against entire peoples. But again, these repressions were organized not out of thin air, but because a very large part of these peoples voluntarily went into the service of Hitler and at the first opportunity with special cruelty killed and massacred the Red Army men and their families, as well as other "infidels." And I have no doubt that at the first opportunity all this will be repeated on an even greater scale. And then what. After all, we will have to take adequate measures under loud screams about the violation of human rights, as they yelled at one time when the Albanians began to slaughter the Serbs in Yugoslavia, And not only yelled, but also bombed the cities of Yugoslavia. And what's the bottom line. A devastated country, thousands killed on both sides, complete desolation and poverty in the zones controlled by the Albanians. Also, of course, the result of the triumph of democracy in one separate country. But do any of you want a similar result for yourself and your children? Hardly
    1. valokordin
      valokordin 24 September 2012 10: 21
      +2
      Gregor, I recalled the words of the aunt who lived in the occupation in Bryansk about a Soviet activist who was such a fighter for Soviet power that after the Germans occupied the city, she continued to do the same, only on the contrary served the Germans and knocked them about communists, Jews, underground workers . After the liberation, ours caught and repressed her, also a victim of the Stalin regime.
      1. Konrad
        Konrad 30 September 2012 09: 05
        -2
        valokordin,

        Quote: valokordin
        also a victim of the Stalin regime

        There is no victim, a typical Soviet activist with double morality.
        1. Rink
          Rink 30 September 2012 11: 30
          0
          And here you are frankly lying: the case is just atypical, a phenomenon from the category of unique
          .
          PS Do you at least understand what the word "typical" means?
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 16
            -2
            Quote: Skating rink
            the case is just atypical

            Vlasov’s army, policemen, etc. — is this not a typical case?
            1. Rink
              Rink 30 September 2012 15: 21
              0
              Not everything is so simple with Vlasov’s army, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to hang tags on it yet. There still need to figure out what was really.

              And with the policemen - did they all, as one of themselves, depicted Soviet activists before the war, and then went to the police? And what, you can even remember a couple of names? That's just it ... those who went to the cellars during the Soviet era, or, in the best case, quietly sabotaged without publicizing their views, went to the policemen.

              So here you are again ... with your finger in the sky.
              1. Zmitcer
                Zmitcer 30 September 2012 15: 38
                -2
                Quote: Skating rink
                So here you are again ... with your finger in the sky.
                many had no choice. you’ll go to the partisans, they will shoot your relatives, you won’t serve, they will shoot you. Hundreds of villages with residents were burned in Belarus, not only Khatyn - not everyone wanted to serve, but not everyone was ready to pay such a high price. Many who were policemen helped the Jews escape and helped the partisans. And the fact that our population was in such a situation, and the fact that we paid such a high price, is to blame for the mediocrity of both the Stalin criminal and his crowds of thoughtless slaves.
              2. Konrad
                Konrad 30 September 2012 18: 47
                -2
                Quote: Skating rink
                can you even remember a couple of names?

                But you, however, cannot be immediately remembered - it was a long time ago. But according to the stories of the old people - it was certain. And at the rallies they stigmatized and denounced, and under the Germans they fed from their hands.
    2. tarks
      tarks 24 September 2012 10: 51
      +7
      Nobody from Stalin guilt for repression does not remove.
      about wine, knowing the real dealings of the time, talking all the more meaningless. do not consider him a god. the overwhelming majority of his modern supporters - adequate and sober people - with a bunch of archival documents in their hands and a head on their shoulders.
      the word wine in relation to Stalin is simply inappropriate.
      and the overwhelming majority of the people - refers to this name with great reverence, despite decades of lies. everything is simple. people do not bother with calculations. he appreciates result.
      1. Konrad
        Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 18
        -2
        Quote: tarks
        Nobody removes Stalin’s guilt for repression.

        He created a criminal bloody regime, killed millions of people and WILL NOT be forgiven!
        1. Rink
          Rink 30 September 2012 15: 25
          +1
          Quote: Konrad
          He created a criminal bloody regime, killed millions of people and WILL NOT be forgiven!

          Enough of shaking your fists, not on the Swamp ...

          What is criminal - explain? did not obey the West, did not allow the country to plunder?
          Destroyed what millions - you blame the victims of the Great Patriotic War, or what?

          And forgiveness, your swamp all spit. Will, will not be - violet ...
          1. Zmitcer
            Zmitcer 30 September 2012 15: 51
            -2
            Quote: Skating rink
            and your marsh forgiveness to all spit

            as well as everyone spit on the opinion of a slave who misses the service of the master. they weren’t touched in the 37th year, they are always needed, any regime. You survive so much, you feel so comfortable, but you don’t have to tell everyone that this is the only way to survive. You will never understand simple things, despite your education, etc. ..... 1 simple thing. That a slave is not a Man.
            1. Rink
              Rink 30 September 2012 16: 53
              -1
              laughing Zmitcer, do not make me laugh!
              I do not share your point of view - so I'm a slave ?!

              On the contrary, the one who does not turn on his own brains and silently swallows the "official" version of history slipped by the media, and believes people like you - that he is a slave.

              I am just against that "official" lie that poured out on Stalin by pseudo-researchers of the liberal wing. I do not evoke the "spirit of Stalin", his time has passed, he corresponded to that situation and that moment. Now is a different time, and the people must have a different leader.

              But I won't let you distort history. It is easy to check, just refer to the second part of the title of the article, to the facts. And not to propaganda cries of "villain" and "villain".

              The fact is that Stalin brought the country to the peak of its power.
              Otherwise, we would not be there.

              It does not suit only those who believe that Russia is too big, there are too many Russians and they own unjustly many resources - a cynical, two-faced, colonialist West, accustomed to living off the plunder of other nations.
              Slaves are those who, being of Russian origin, speak their words.
              Although, perhaps it seems to them that by clinging to the "masters", they also became "masters" ...
              1. Konrad
                Konrad 30 September 2012 18: 56
                -2
                Quote: Skating rink
                The fact is that Stalin brought the country to the peak of its power.
                Otherwise, we would not be there.

                If not for Stalin, there would have been much more!
          2. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 18: 51
            0
            Quote: Skating rink
            Enough of shaking your fists, not on Bolotnaya.

            Don't give me your "Swamp", I live in Rostov and don't support those assholes!
  17. baltika-18
    baltika-18 24 September 2012 09: 55
    +11
    What to look at the numbers on paper, they are just written, the paper will endure everything. Now there are few people who remember that time. Fortunately, my parents (my mother, 1925, my father, 1928) are still alive and they remember Stalin's time very well They remember the war. And I judge Stalin not only from information from the press, but also from the personal impressions of my parents. And they treat him very well, consider him the best of all the leaders of the state. And Khrushchev, who launched a company against Stalin, for some reason tolerate.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 September 2012 10: 22
      +5
      Quote: baltika-18
      father-1928)


      Mine, too, but unfortunately you won’t ask anymore, my mother is alive, says they didn’t live, but they knew that it would be better, and under Brezhnev it was not bad before his insanity
    2. Konrad
      Konrad 30 September 2012 19: 04
      +1
      Quote: baltika-18

      I judge Stalin not only by information from the press, but also by the personal impressions of my parents

      My father is no longer there (1924), my mother (1929) and they talked about how they lived "happily" under Stalin. My grandfather generally became an "English spy" (someone snitched: "I was figuring out where the planes were flying"), because while on a business trip, he sent his rations to his family, with familiar pilots. You know there was nothing to eat!
      1. Zmitcer
        Zmitcer 30 September 2012 19: 56
        -1
        Let me give you an example too. Some of my ancestors lived in the west of Belarus, under the Poles. They had their own land, a lot of livestock, there was even a bicycle, and they dressed very well, I saw family photos. Others lived in the east, in the BSSR. They lived without a passport, worked for sticks, went out to the collective farm fields at night, collected what was left. About spikelets - it's true, I did not believe, did not think that it is possible to humiliate people like that. No one was repressed, but there are enough documents on the history of Belarus, and you can easily find what happened during Stalinism. He who has a brain will never defend the one who destroyed people, and under whom people lived as if long. At that time there were 2 executioners, Hitler and Stalin. Hitler also raised Germany from its "knees", only he did not destroy the Germans, unlike Stalin, who destroyed his own. Both were executioners and for me personally, there is no difference between them.
        1. Konrad
          Konrad 30 September 2012 20: 29
          -2
          Quote: Zmitcer
          for me personally, there’s no difference between them.

          And Hitler is simply the most capable student of Stalin.
          1. Rink
            Rink 30 September 2012 21: 18
            0
            You can see where the wind is blowing ...
            Look, for "stupid Americans" there is no difference between Africa and Asia, they even confuse the presidents of the continents.

            But this does not mean that they are right.
            It only means that they illiterate.
        2. Rink
          Rink 30 September 2012 20: 59
          0
          Quote: Zmitcer
          ... Some of my ancestors lived in the west of Belarus, under the Poles. They had their own land, a lot of livestock, there was even a bicycle, and they dressed very well, saw family photos. ...

          Only the Poles lived well under the Poles.
          The genocide of the original Russian (Belarusian, Little Russian) Orthodox population by Catholic Poles in the territories occupied by them is well known. Moreover, at least during the time of the Principality of Lithuania, at least in the period 1919-1939. By the way, the Poles of the concentration camp organized on their territory before the Germans.
          The fact that East Belarus lagged behind the Poles in living standards is not surprising. Do you even remember the civilian, about in what conditions Russia rose from its knees? I would have looked how Poland, after such cataclysms (had it survived), would have revived without outside help ...

          PS By the way, Vilna and the Vilnius region about which you grieve, Poland arbitrarily seized after the First World War, when neither Russia, let alone Germany, did not get the hang of Polish "tricks".
          These Lithuanian lands (Vilno = Vilnius), for which the Lithuanians hated the Poles more than the Germans. Belarus they do not belong and did not belong. And if you consider them yours, then you are still a Pole! genes are felt, rightly someone noticed ...
        3. V. Salama
          V. Salama 1 October 2012 14: 00
          0
          Quote: Zmitcer
          ... at night we went to collective farm fields, collected what was left.
          You know, I also had a grandfather - for 20 years the permanent chairman of the collective farm. He fought for less than 6 months - was recalled from near Konigsberg (just before the assault) back to the collective farm. I have no reason to consider him a fool, he had a lot of things to do, but he does not sleep at 3-4 in the morning and his horse does not sleep - they gallop through the fields - "they guard the ears." Indeed, than "for sticks" to work, it is better to send children 10-12 years old to the field at night, and there the threshed grain was not taken out, and the sheaves were not threshed. Children, they will not do anything, and in the morning everyone is in the field to work, and someone is eating porridge and doing their own farm. It's not that simple. And about "We lived without a passport, .." - this is a separate and long conversation, which can be started with a question - where did they go to these passports?
      2. V. Salama
        V. Salama 1 October 2012 13: 46
        0
        Quote: Konrad
        You know there was nothing to eat!
        Sincerely condolences. I don’t jerk, God forbid. However, I think that this is not a reason to judge Stalin. Solzhenitsyn, being a snitch himself, condemned snitching because this, in particular, was illegal. We now have a corresponding normative act for informants. In general, everything is already legal, and to rattle off is a couple of simple ones, there would be a benefit, and an informer (like a looter) will always be found.
  18. IRBIS
    IRBIS 24 September 2012 10: 03
    +8
    Looking back at the past years of my life, I understand that I belong to the "Stalinists". The softness and pliability of the leaders only leads to confusion and vacillation of the masses. Freedom and Democracy? What the hell to me is such freedom, in which it is scary to go out into the street. When they are no longer embarrassed or afraid of stealing. When crowds of indignant peeds roam the streets, and silly heifers dance in the churches? This is freedom? Stalin was a genius of his time, he could only by his will keep the country from complete decomposition into component parts. Repression? Well then, show me at least one state in which there are no state institutions of coercion. And look at those countries where these institutions are liberalized to the limit. Something I don't really want a life like theirs.
    1. tarks
      tarks 24 September 2012 10: 55
      +5
      ... he could only with his will keep the country from complete decomposition into its component parts. ...
      not just mine. what he did was supported by the people.
      only in this situation, Victory was possible.
      people love to know what and why they are doing. otherwise, slippers. white.
  19. 8 company
    8 company 24 September 2012 10: 19
    -7
    There are no worse Russophobes than Dzhugashvili fans. They will find how to justify any crime against their own people, they will scream with foam at the mouth that there was no other way but dispossessing, mass starvation and mass repressions aimed primarily at the peasants, and not the Bolshevik Jews (as the Stalinists like to lie). If you begin to cite facts of the destruction of even the designers of weapons and military equipment, major scientists, it is useless. And they are lying as selflessly and this article is another confirmation of this.
    1. gregor6549
      gregor6549 24 September 2012 10: 39
      +6
      Where did you see Stalin's Russophobia? Everything was exactly the opposite. It was under Stalin that the term "titular nation" was adopted and a percentage rate was introduced for representatives of a non-titular nation in universities, technical schools, schools, enterprises, etc., especially at military-industrial complex enterprises and in the army. It got to the point that capable designers, military leaders, writers, etc. of the non-titular nation were gently but persistently suggested to change the name, surname and nationality in the passport to the titular one in order to "match" the requirements of the party in the field of national politics.
      Stalin did not destroy outstanding designers and scientists either, although he could not do without excesses. And it was difficult to get by. overhead constantly hung "nosebleed but have time". Again, when Beria was instructed to engage in design work in aviation, rocketry and nuclear weapons, he followed the most familiar simple and effective (from his point of view) path, i.e. the way of "carrot and carrot", At the same time, everything that he did gave quick and expected results, and the scientists in sharashki were hiding behind them from other "leaders" who were not averse to putting these designers against the wall. Bad approach? Undoubtedly, especially from the point of view of those who sat in these sharashki. But it was he who saved the USSR in the early 50s and subsequent years and ensured the balance of power in the world. Again, under Stalin, all these scientists were "set free" and received moral and material benefits, which were rather sickly for that hungry time. By the way, with the release of the sharashki, the mode of life of many leading designers and scientists did not change and the ax of duty and possible reprisals for improper performance of this duty hung over their heads all the time. And this regime continued until the collapse of the USSR. They didn’t die from a bullet, so from heart attacks, stress, etc. This was the job.
      1. 8 company
        8 company 24 September 2012 11: 18
        +1
        Quote: gregor6549
        Stalin did not destroy outstanding designers and scientists either.



        Since 1937 were shot: Nikolai Mikhailovich Kharlamov, head of TsAGI; Vasily Ivanovich Chekalov, head of the 8th department of TsAGI; Evgeny Mikhailovich Furmanov, deputy head of the training department of TsAGI; Kirill Alexandrovich Inyushin, Deputy Head of the Planning and Technical Department of Plant No. 156; Israel Emanuilovich Maryamov, Director of Plant No. 24; Georgy Nikitovich Korolev, Director of Plant No. 26; Andrei Makarovich Broom, Head of the 2nd Division of the 1st Main Directorate of the NKOP.
        Aircraft designer K.A. Kalinin - one of the founders of the Kharkov aircraft factory, designer of K-series aircraft, was shot in October 1938.
        Jet Research Institute: Kleimenov and Langemak were shot, Luzhin died in the camp.
        The designers of the submarines Starchik, Turkov and Schukin were shot in 1938.
        Designer Taubin Yakov Grigorievich, developed an automatic easel grenade launcher, 23-mm aircraft gun, shot in 1941.
        The chief designer of the Soviet self-propelled guns, Syachintov, was shot in May 1937., one of the creators of the B-4 howitzer Magdisiev - in the same year.
        The head of the department of tanks and tractors of the Military Academy of Mechanization and Motorization of the Red Army, non-partisan professor V.I. Zaslavsky, the author of the first Russian book on tanks, was shot in 1937.
        These are only the most famous.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 24 September 2012 12: 15
          +6
          Less denunciations would be written on each other

          In 1957, when an article about Kostikov, Korolev and Glushko was published in the 23rd volume of the second edition of the Great Soviet Encyclopedia (TSB) - then already corresponding members of the USSR Academy of Sciences, Heroes of Socialist Labor, could not stand it and sent a letter to the editorial board of TSB, in which talked about the true contribution of this adventurer to our rocketry. This letter, in particular, directly states: “In 1937-1938, when our homeland was going through difficult days of mass arrests of Soviet personnel, Kostikov, who worked at the institute as an ordinary engineer, made great efforts to achieve the arrest and condemnation of the main the leadership of this institute ... "

          So there was "help from the scientific and technical community," and nevertheless, the "RNII Case" was moving at a pace that could not but sadden Andrei Grigorievich. Even the Chekists, who were not very scrupulous in the proof of their accusations, saw in this "Case" obvious flaws, on which, after the just past plenum, one could stumble. At the most cursory reading of the cases, it immediately caught the eye: Langemak claims that Kleymenov was involved in the sabotage organization, from whom he learned that Glushko and Korolev were already there. Kleymenov proves that he learned about the sabotage of Glushko and the Queen from Langemak.
          1. 8 company
            8 company 24 September 2012 12: 21
            -2
            Quote: Vadivak
            Less denunciations would be written on each other


            Yezhov's executioners would put you on the "conveyor" and would not let you sleep for 5-6 days, or for speed they simply pinched the eggs by the door, and you would have dashed off whatever they demand on anyone. Do not flatter yourself, almost no one could stand the torture.
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 24 September 2012 12: 32
              +4
              Quote: Company 8
              Yezhov's executioners would put you on the "conveyor"


              I kind of didn’t contact you? Well, thank God, we are not friends or relatives, if you please do not stoop to your political past,
              1. 8 company
                8 company 24 September 2012 12: 49
                +1
                Quote: Vadivak
                I kind of didn’t contact you?


                Sorry, my fault. Sometimes I just get frustrated when I see another batch of lies and dirt addressed to people who fell into the Stalin-era meat grinder.
                1. Vadivak
                  Vadivak 24 September 2012 16: 22
                  +1
                  Quote: Company 8
                  Sorry, my fault.


                  Apologies are accepted
                2. Alexander Petrovich
                  Alexander Petrovich 24 September 2012 16: 52
                  +1
                  Stalin was forced to go to the so-called "meat grinder" due to the fault of the Western powers, which at any second could attack the young Soviet State
                  1. Konrad
                    Konrad 30 September 2012 09: 09
                    -1
                    Quote: Alexander Petrovich
                    , through the fault of the Western powers, which at any second could attack the young Soviet State

                    The method is not new, invent an enemy to justify any crime.
                    1. Rink
                      Rink 30 September 2012 11: 41
                      0
                      How well you have mastered the "battle lie"!
                      You still say that Russia was completely surrounded by friends!
                      Poland climbed to make friends, small and fluffy Finns, the British and French - as soon as their interventionist corps were expelled from Russia, they immediately ignited friendship. The Yankees with the Japanese in the Far East attracted attention with their friendship. In Central Asia, the British pumped money and weapons to the Basmachis purely by friendship, whispered to the Chechens ear ...

                      PS The information war lies precisely in that, to lie recklessly, and the more rampant and peremptory lies - the more difficult it is to explain that this is baseless nonsense.
                    2. V. Salama
                      V. Salama 1 October 2012 14: 05
                      0
                      Quote: Konrad
                      The method is not new, invent an enemy to justify any crime.
                      However, this is not the case. It does not add authority to deny the obvious things.
          2. gregor6549
            gregor6549 24 September 2012 19: 02
            +3
            I will add one more thing. Somewhere in the early 70s I had a chance to live in the same room of a hotel located on one of the sites of Kapustin Yar (according to my "deuce") with one Muscovite from the company of Academician Bunkin, who began to deal with missiles before the war. He told an interesting story that Stalin was very well aware of the works of Wernher von Braun, Obert and other German scientists and could compare their achievements with the achievements of the "famous" RNII. The comparison was clearly not in favor of the RNII, they began to put pressure on the RNII, demanding more serious results than Katyusha, they got nervous and began to drown each other. they understood perfectly well what the Stalinist punishment for improper performance of official duties is. But there was little sense, and at the end of 45, almost all the leading employees of the RNII, including the Queen, were kicked out to Germany with the task of finding at least something of Brown's works. Found, of course, the Nakhodka was called V2, But Brown himself and something more valuable than V2 were found by others. Therefore, in 47m from the same "two" Cap Yar only Fau2 went to the sky. (A monument to her still stands there, and in the States, a modification of the V-4 that Brown developed during the war for the raid on the States went into the sky. Feel the difference in range and feel Stalin's reaction. The Americans already have an "A" bomb and missiles for its delivery to the Union at the exit, but in the Union there are problems with the bomb, and with the means of delivery. That is, again the time trouble with the price of the issue equal to the existence of the USSR. So one should not be surprised at the landing of "outstanding owls of scientists and designers. I would also he highlighted the positive role of the "executioner" Beria in this matter.It's hard to say what and how they would have had time if not for his "carrot and stick", although this is not difficult to say.
        2. rennim
          rennim 24 September 2012 12: 54
          +2
          I also worked in the Design Bureau .... and developed products that are still being sold ... I was thrown out of work by false denunciation. If there were those times ... they would have shot me ... There were always bastards and scammers on normal people. ..and today they are all ...
        3. Kars
          Kars 24 September 2012 17: 35
          +5
          Well, Stalin didn’t personally shoot them. But it’s all human essence - greed, envy. I won’t tell you about all personalities.
          Quote: Company 8
          The chief designer of the Soviet self-propelled guns Syachintov was shot in May 1937

          For the Su-14 it can shoot too cruelly, but it was necessary to drive out.
          Quote: Company 8
          B-4 Magdisieva - in the same year

          If he created a carriage, then on the case.

          But in fact, who said that they are outstanding --- upstarts and grabbers were enough, and enough. The same Kurchevsky for example.
          Quote: Company 8
          non-partisan professor V.I. Zasla

          If Tukhachevsky relied on his work in creating those assignments for Soviet tanks and structures of tank units, then who knows, maybe there really was a spy and saboteur.
          1. DIMS
            DIMS 24 September 2012 17: 42
            +1
            And if they hadn’t shot Langemak and Kleimenov, our missiles would most likely have become much more accurate.
            The Germans came up with relatively quick stabilization by rotation on their copy-paste of the Soviet BM-13.
            1. Kars
              Kars 24 September 2012 17: 59
              +1
              Quote: DIMS
              The Germans before stabilization by rotation on their copy-paste of the Soviet BM-13

              Czechs
              Quote: DIMS
              Germans before stabilization

              They came up with stabilization by rotation before meeting Soviet RS.

              Quote: DIMS
              Langemak and Kleimenov

              And we will never know that.
              1. DIMS
                DIMS 24 September 2012 18: 31
                +1
                The rockets themselves were copied by German engineers. Led by Rolf Enger
                The creators of rifled weapons came up with rotation stabilization.
                But there is an important point with MS. "Native" Germans rotated due to powder gases, on copy-and-paste, due to stabilizers installed at an angle.

                Quote: Kars
                And we will never know that.

                Kostikov, who reported on them and appropriated the results, was no longer distinguished
                1. Kars
                  Kars 24 September 2012 22: 13
                  -1
                  Quote: DIMS
                  "Native" Germans rotated due to powder gases, on copy-and-paste, due to stabilizers installed at an angle.

                  in other words, the Germans have a high-tech method, we have the good old plumage. So this is not a moment, but a given. The main stabilization by rotation was also removed as it is called - the cystistrate of the powder engine - I didn’t bother with this.
                  Quote: DIMS
                  no longer distinguished

                  Developed in the USSR in the period from 1929 to 1937, this about the RS-82 Langemak was arrested in 1937 --- as we see there was time for improvement, so it is not a fact that he would have distinguished himself.

                  Of course, I do not say anything, but there is something to think about.
                  1. DIMS
                    DIMS 24 September 2012 22: 28
                    0
                    Quote: Kars
                    simply put, the Germans have a high-tech way, we have a good old plumage.

                    Simply put, our gas energy is spent only on translational motion. As a result, the Germans who realized this copy-paste our PCs with a greater range, greater manufacturability in production but with higher dispersion.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 25 September 2012 00: 17
                      0
                      Quote: DIMS
                      Simply put,

                      Simply put, stabilization was still, the eccentricity of the rocket engine was not compensated.
                      Quote: DIMS
                      translational motion

                      The range was great.
                      Quote: DIMS
                      Germans who realized this

                      Is that what they realized then? They continued to do as did the blunt-projectile shells.
                      Quote: DIMS
                      the Germans copy-paste our PCs

                      And why not copy-paste? If the Czechs at BMM have nothing to do, cheaply and cheerfully ---
                      Quote: DIMS
                      greater manufacturability

                      Oh yes, the prostate is the key to success.
                      Quote: DIMS
                      higher dispersion

                      And at the same time, a colossal (or maybe free) change in the angle of inclination of the guides increased accuracy, to which longemak for some reason for 5 years (and how many in the GUIRD I don’t think so) even though the RS-82 began a combat career at Khalkhin Gol (if not earlier )
                      Quote: DIMS
                      higher dispersion.

                      Our soldiers were no less afraid of Katyusha than Germans (at least my grandfather remembered Katyusha on par with PAK-40)
                      1. DIMS
                        DIMS 25 September 2012 00: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        They continued to do as did blunt projectiles.

                        They began to copy-paste the Soviet ones, right. And not just copy-paste, but developed their own on their basis. For example, a lighting missile for air defense. A missile based on the M-13 was generally modified until 1945, and it never went into production. (this is to the question of the possibilities of Langemarck


                        Quote: Kars
                        Oh yes, the prostate is the key to success.

                        Of course
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 25 September 2012 00: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: DIMS
                        copy-paste soviet, right

                        Does this mean something? They adopted the Czech tank, produced, refined, made it self-propelled guns so what? Normal process.
                        Quote: DIMS
                        the basis of the M-13 in general until 1945 finalized

                        then she didn’t like them, and nothing else --- but what exactly did they finish on? What is the problem then? They refused to use a large number of weapons that were not developed to their standard.

                        And giving rotation by counting the grooves in the guides we use until now, in Grad, Hurricanes.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 25 September 2012 00: 51
                        0
                        The Germans even redid American kaliopes for themselves - somewhere there is a photo with the installation on the Hanomag 231
                      4. DIMS
                        DIMS 25 September 2012 01: 43
                        -1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Does this mean something? They adopted the Czech tank, produced, refined, made it self-propelled guns so what? Normal process.

                        They wouldn’t do it if they were comfortable with the range.

                        Quote: Kars
                        then she didn’t like them, and nothing else --- but what exactly did they finish on? What is the problem then? They refused to use a large number of weapons that were not developed to their standard.

                        It all started with an attempt to increase fragmentation by increasing the caliber to 15 cm. Which drew a lot of problems.


                        Quote: Kars
                        And giving rotation by counting the grooves in the guides we use until now, in Grad, Hurricanes.

                        This is not a German invention; they simply did not need grooves.
                        In this, ours was ahead of everyone. Development began at the end of 43, and after many trial and error for the use during the storming of Berlin, several BM-13-SN divisions were released

                        http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/bm-13-cn/bm-13-cn.shtml

                        By the way, so that there is no longer a question with rotation due to grooves
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 25 September 2012 12: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: DIMS
                        They wouldn’t do it if they were comfortable with the range.

                        they did it because it was CHEAP. And Czech plants could make them.
                        Quote: DIMS
                        It all started with an attempt to increase fragmentation by increasing the caliber to 15 cm.

                        It’s easier to say that they didn’t suit them, and what’s more about the M-13 when the Germans began to increase the caliber.
                        Quote: DIMS
                        This is not a German invention - they didn’t need grooves

                        This is a Czech invention, and Czech copy-pastes were the first to start shooting rotatable pc from spiral guides.
                        Quote: DIMS
                        By the way, so that there is no longer a question with rotation due to grooves

                        why photo turbojet chemical mortar?
                        I have my own skills
                      6. DIMS
                        DIMS 25 September 2012 13: 20
                        -1
                        Quote: Kars
                        It’s easier to say that they didn’t suit them, and what’s more about the M-13 when the Germans began to increase the caliber.

                        But the shell was developed on the basis of the Soviet M-13. With the preservation of the internal device. They just tried to scale it, but failed.

                        Quote: Kars
                        This is a Czech invention, and Czech copy-pastes were the first to shoot rotary ds from spiral guides

                        But from this moment in great detail. At least a photograph or drawing
                      7. Kars
                        Kars 25 September 2012 14: 39
                        -1
                        Quote: DIMS
                        With the preservation of the internal device. They just tried to scale it, but failed.

                        How is this unsuccessful? What was it expressed in?
                        Quote: DIMS
                        At least a photograph or drawing

                        It’s more complicated - there is a mention of the capture of the RSO with the RS-82 by Soviet troops with skew guides and an article in the Polish magazine -Military history so you can assume that I can’t prove my words.But the fact that the work on spiral guides began in the second half of World War II says something.
                        Shirokorad has a mention somewhere --- but now I can’t find it.
                      8. DIMS
                        DIMS 25 September 2012 15: 11
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        How is this unsuccessful? What was it expressed in?

                        So they didn’t bring it to mind. What were the problems, I don’t know

                        Quote: Kars
                        This is more complicated - there is a mention of the capture of the RSO with the RS-82 by Soviet troops with oblique directional guides and an article in the Polish magazine -Military history so you can assume that I can’t prove my words.

                        This is most likely a fake.
                      9. Konrad
                        Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 29
                        -3
                        Quote: Kars
                        Oh yes, the prostate is the key to success

                        The prostate? Just do not say it to those with prostatitis. lol
          2. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 09: 11
            -1
            Quote: Kars
            maybe there really was a spy and saboteur.

            This makes no sense !
      2. Konrad
        Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 21
        -2
        Quote: gregor6549

        Where did you see Russophobia in Stalin?

        Destroy the Russians, is not Russophobia? However, he did not evade other nations ...
        1. Rink
          Rink 30 September 2012 15: 28
          -1
          Quote: Konrad
          Destroy the Russians, is not Russophobia? However, he did not evade other nations ...

          Konrad, you have a liberal mess in your head.
          You read Goebbels leaflets, obviously, because all your ideas and terminology are from there.
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 19: 11
            -2
            Quote: Skating rink
            You read goebbels flyers

            I haven't read Goebbels' leaflets, except perhaps the works of the "classics of scientific communism." Perhaps your ideas and terminology are from there.
    2. T72B
      T72B 24 September 2012 10: 43
      +3
      Andyusha, why are you, blue, smoked in the morning? You are not at a party meeting or at a political event. Less pathos in speeches. You’re not hamming politics into soldiers (you used to hammer the politics of the CPSU, but now you have changed your orientation?). You, blue, throw your commissar habits. Disposal of money just like you, fighters for national happiness, ready to wave to any turn of the party line, was carried out.
      1. 8 company
        8 company 24 September 2012 11: 01
        -7
        Quote: T72Б
        Andyusha, why are you, blue, smoked in the morning?


        Oh, Canadian fan Dzhugashvili arrived in time! How much has sold the homeland, open, do not press. How many Canadian tugriks have you been paid for treason? Go to North Korea, be principled to the end.
        1. T72B
          T72B 24 September 2012 11: 12
          +4
          Andyusha, I will open myself to you as a family. I am not one of the admirers or detractors of Stalin. I just can't stand the petty commissars, twisting in their political equilibrium better than any "girls" from Tverskaya.
          1. 8 company
            8 company 24 September 2012 11: 24
            -1
            Quote: T72Б
            I do not belong to admirers or detractors of Stalin.


            Do not belong, then do not get into the discussion. Anyway, you have nothing to say on the merits. Go to the website of the Novosibirsk Military-Political School, there are a lot of former commissars, so you’ll frolic from the bottom of your heart, annihilate the bile that has accumulated over many years.
            1. T72B
              T72B 24 September 2012 11: 30
              +2
              Quote: Company 8
              Do not belong, then do not get into the discussion.


              Andrei, what if I climbed, what’s going to be a denunciation in the political department?

              Quote: Company 8
              Go to the website of the Novosibirsk Military-Political School, there are a lot of former commissars, so you’ll frolic from the heart, annihilate the bile that has accumulated over many years.


              Fortunately, not only people like you studied at the Novosibirsk VVPU, but also very worthy people. Not all political workers are worth the comb. But the commissioner is a state of mind. I would even say genetics.
              1. 8 company
                8 company 24 September 2012 11: 40
                0
                Quote: T72Б
                Fortunately, not only people like you studied at the Novosibirsk VVPU, but also very worthy people. Not all political workers are worth the comb.


                What is it like? Are you hinting that if a political worker loves Stalin, is he a worthy person?
                1. T72B
                  T72B 24 September 2012 11: 45
                  +2
                  It’s as if I are hinting that if a political worker does not change his beliefs depending on where the political wind is blowing today, then he is a worthy person.
                  1. 8 company
                    8 company 24 September 2012 11: 48
                    -1
                    Quote: T72Б
                    a political worker does not change his beliefs depending on where the political wind is blowing today, he is a worthy person.


                    And what then did you leave for Canada, Mr. Principality? Revive your homeland, not a stranger.
                    1. T72B
                      T72B 24 September 2012 11: 59
                      +1
                      Quote: Company 8
                      And what did you leave for Canada then


                      And who told you that I went there? Check box? So it’s empty, Andrei (if you didn’t know, that is such a thing, the torus is called). Tomorrow I can come in from another. This does not change the essence.

                      Quote: Company 8
                      Revive your homeland, not a stranger.


                      You know, it coincided with you here. I do it.
                      1. 8 company
                        8 company 24 September 2012 12: 04
                        -1
                        Quote: T72Б
                        And who told you that I went there? Check box? So it’s empty, Andrei (if you didn’t know, that is such a thing, the torus is called). Tomorrow I can come in from another. This does not change the essence.


                        No, you look at him, huh? He changes flags like gloves, pretends to be my brother-soldier, but categorically refuses to call himself, and also teaches others "solid principles" !!! I was crying laughing
                      2. T72B
                        T72B 24 September 2012 12: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Company 8
                        and also teaches others "solid principles" !!!


                        Well, on the account of adherence to principles, I remember how you were going to go to Lithuania several years ago at one of the forums "with Father Lukashenko". And then, apparently, the wind blew from the other side and your yesterday's idol Lukashenka became your thief. And this is not an isolated example of your "integrity".

                        Quote: Company 8
                        I'm crying


                        Do not cry girl ... Still, in vain you have set up cons. In vain. You looked better with a gefreytor.

                        Okay, I’ll go to revive my Motherland, otherwise I’ll trample from work for inappropriate use of working time.
                      3. 8 company
                        8 company 24 September 2012 12: 26
                        -2
                        Quote: T72Б
                        how did you plan to go to Lithuania several years ago on one of the forums "with dad Lukashenko"


                        Well, I remember, I pinned then, such as Vilno to return to the composition of the Republic of Belarus. So you're on Artofvar, so you’re struggling? Well, you see, but I was fooling around that my fellow soldier. Come on, introduce yourself as a man, do not disgrace in front of people.
                    2. Vadivak
                      Vadivak 24 September 2012 12: 21
                      +2
                      Quote: Company 8
                      And what did you leave for Canada then, mister


                      Or maybe lovers of freedom from you, you won’t wave your tongue there, almost for nothing
                      1. T72B
                        T72B 24 September 2012 12: 30
                        +1
                        I don’t know how they have thorns on their account, but if the 8th company pays me for a trip, I’ll ride with pleasure. Upon arrival, I will share my impressions.
                      2. 8 company
                        8 company 24 September 2012 12: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: T72Б
                        if the 8th company pays me a trip,


                        You’re also a beggar ... Okay, tired of my empty chatter, bye!
                2. Rink
                  Rink 1 October 2012 13: 16
                  0
                  You can love a neighbor, or a bun with butter in the morning, but you don’t need to love Stalin, even from political workers.
                  For a decent person, it’s enough not to lie lying back on what was not there.
              2. Konrad
                Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 32
                -1
                Quote: T72Б
                But the commissioner is a state of mind

                Rather, the diagnosis.
            2. Vadivak
              Vadivak 24 September 2012 12: 20
              +3
              Quote: Company 8
              There are many former commissars


              Do not confuse the commissar and the political officer, these are two big differences, so that you can understand - the political representatives do not have commissar powers, their functions are limited to political work among the personnel. That is, slogans and barbecue like all Komsomol leaders of the Gorbachev era
              1. T72B
                T72B 24 September 2012 12: 35
                +2
                The bulk of such Komsomol members was, although there were also bright people.

                Vadim, let's round off this topic, and then the people still have something good and you and I will write down the most "Komsomol members". This will be our asymmetric answer to professional talker Andryushka.
              2. 8 company
                8 company 24 September 2012 12: 36
                -3
                Quote: Vadivak
                The deputy politicians do not have commissar powers, their functions are limited to political work among the personnel.


                Here you are right, it’s your idols that the Bolsheviks in Grazhdanskaya created the institute of political commissars, and Stalin actively developed it until 1942, until, finally, it came to him that there was nowhere to retreat.
    3. tan0472
      tan0472 24 September 2012 10: 46
      +3
      Quote: Company 8
      There are no worse Russophobes than Dzhugashvili fans

      I'm not a fan of the October coup, since it happened, who would you like to see at the head of the country instead of Stalin? Trotsky, Bukharin, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Tukhachevsky? Whom? Your option. Who is the genius whom Stalin did not let us "make happy"?
    4. tarks
      tarks 24 September 2012 11: 29
      -1
      your remark is a minimum of unwillingness to move away from the cliches in which you play the role of the victim.
      figures indicate that there is nothing to justify.
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 24 September 2012 15: 07
        0
        Quote: tarks
        your remark is a minimum of unwillingness to move away from the cliches in which you play the role of the victim.
        figures indicate that there is nothing to justify.

        1) Why did you decide that your stamps are more stamped than my stamps?
        2) What numbers are you talking about?
  20. Patriot
    Patriot 24 September 2012 10: 45
    +19
    Quote: Professor
    Professor
    It's just not Stalin, but Mother Teresa turns out. It's strange how other countries (including nuclear ones), without such a genius, "got into the people"?
    At this rate, they will soon write to us that there were no repressions at all ...
    Agitation (article) - a fat minus.


    No. There were repressions. But:
    1- not on such a scale as the Jews who came to power in 1991 speak about this.
    2-He knew whom to repress and expel.
    3 DOESN'T SEE OVER SUSPICIOUS WHO COMMAND STALIN SERIOUSLY TAKE PLACE ON THE JEWS AT ALL LEVELS OF AUTHORITY IN THE USSR?
    4-And, the number of victims of the Stalinist repressions is simply nothing, in comparison with the number of victims at the hands of JEWISH ANGLOSAK FINANCIAL tycoons who from 22 to 33 years (contrary to all agreements on the results of World War I) brought Hitler to power, pumped him with money, increased its army 1 times from the then authorized 42 people, to 100 million people and set them on the USSR, in order to kill the dynamically developing and rising from its knees Soviet Union with the hands of the Germans. It's your style to kill with someone else's hands. And, from these "good deeds", as we know, NOT ONE TEN MILLION PERSONS KILLED!

    How does it seem to me that he repeatedly had the opportunity to understand the whole rot of the subterranean of your treacherous Judas of the clan? AND SURE I SAW IN THIS SALT NATION THE THREAT OF THE COUNTRY THAT HEADED?
    CAN IT BE NOT SAME FOR ANYTHING?


    Quote: baltika-18
    baltika-18 (1)
    What to look at the numbers on paper, they are just written, the paper will endure everything. Now there are few people who remember that time. Fortunately, my parents (my mother, 1925, my father, 1928) are still alive and they remember Stalin's time very well They remember the war. And I judge Stalin not only from information from the press, but also from the personal impressions of my parents. And they treat him very well, consider him the best of all the leaders of the state. And Khrushchev, who launched a company against Stalin, for some reason tolerate.



    That's the joke. That his contemporaries who lived at that time idolized Stalin, and those Jewish corrupt mongrels who are profitable to pour mud on the history of the USSR first of all undertake to defame the name of Stalin. Who, having come to power, saw the true goals of Trotsky and some other Jewish representatives of the VKPB.

    Quote: Professor
    Professor
    I was told tales about "enemies around" from childhood, but when I first visited the West I was stunned by the fact that people for generations simply live like human beings, and do not fight enemies like in North Korea, and those who do not want to fight enemies "to trying to escape "..


    Professor. I beg you. No need to stupefy people.
    When an ordinary person lives, for example, in the United States, he simply lives humanly and does not fight.
    But we, living in the USSR or in the current Russian Federation, have to fight with the United States, since this country strives to live at the expense of others, including our account. And, if we do not fight, then the fate of Libya itself awaits us.
    1. Isr
      Isr 25 September 2012 00: 27
      -5
      Patriot, read again everything that you wrote, because this is real anti-Semitic, pseudo-patriotic nonsense, idle talk, it all exists only in your inflamed brain. Sorry, I wrote to the brain, but then I doubted that this organ can be called the brain.
      1. d.gksueyjd
        d.gksueyjd 26 September 2012 18: 43
        +3
        By the way, thanks to I.V. Stalin, the state of Israel was formed.
  21. Magadan
    Magadan 24 September 2012 11: 02
    +5
    I believe what I see. I have been living in Magadan for over 30 years. From the descendants of the "repressed" I met the children of former policemen, criminals, as well as those who did not go to work during the war, ie. "saboteurs". Recently, I just met, finally, for all the time I have lived, the descendants of a priest.
    In short, if the number of "innocently repressed" was so huge, I would certainly meet the descendants of these people in Magadan.
    We also have the descendants of the Germans, they may have been sent here in vain, but again, the war is all there!
    For example - there was such a singer, Kozin. He even wanted to be posthumously honored by some kind of honorary citizen of Magadan in 1991. Not done because he, it turns out, was sitting for pedophilia.
  22. Patriot
    Patriot 24 September 2012 11: 13
    +8
    Quote: Professor
    Professor
    I was told tales about "enemies around" from childhood, but when I first visited the West I was stunned by the fact that people for generations simply live like human beings, and do not fight enemies like in North Korea, and those who do not want to fight enemies "to trying to escape "..



    Professor. I beg you. No need to stupefy people.
    When an ordinary person lives, for example, in the United States, he simply lives humanly and does not fight.
    But we, living in the USSR or in the current Russian Federation, have to fight with the United States, since this country seeks to live at the expense of others (since amers consume up to 4 times more than they earn), including our account. And, if we do not fight, then the fate of the indigenous peoples of America, or at least the same Libya, awaits us.
    In a good way, the same applies not only to the United States, but also to almost all Western countries. Especially in a crisis, the desire to live at the expense of the occupied country will be stronger and stronger.
    And, in this situation, there are two ways out. Either go there (in the United States) and try to fix up as an Americanos, having obtained citizenship, or survive on the other side of the barricades. There is no third. Do you have a professor, how many citizenships? Two or three? At least izkhailskoe then you definitely have. And there it also seems German ...?
    Well, how ... Poor Germans should keep the Jews up to the end of their days because of the victims of the Holocaust, which were ten times smaller than the dead Russians. IT WOULD BE ashamed to SCREAM FOR YOUR VICTIMS WHEN THE SAME RUSSIAN PEOPLE HAD A TEN TIMES MORE.


    SO THAN FOR THE SAME HOLOCAUST YOU CAN SAY THANKS TO THE SAME Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and all other anti-human evil spirits. They fought for it, and ran into it. It is very similar to the fate of the American ambassador to Libya, who died at the hands of his own rabid dogs.
  23. Patriot
    Patriot 24 September 2012 11: 37
    +4
    Quote: Magadan
    Magadan Today, 11:02 am 1 
    I believe what I see. I have been living in Magadan for over 30 years. From the descendants of the "repressed" I met the children of former policemen, criminals, as well as those who did not go to work during the war, ie. "saboteurs". Recently, I just met, finally, for all the time I have lived, the descendants of a priest.
    In short, if the number of "innocently repressed" was so huge, I would certainly meet the descendants of these people in Magadan.
    We also have the descendants of the Germans, they may have been sent here in vain, but again, the war is all there!
    For example - there was such a singer, Kozin. He even wanted to be posthumously honored by some kind of honorary citizen of Magadan in 1991. Not done because he, it turns out, was sitting for pedophilia.


    ALL TRUE TALK. And, SHOULD NOT FORGET ABOUT THOSE PERSONALITIES WHICH WOULD OPEN OUTDOOR UNDERGROUND ACTIVITY. And, AFTER THIS FAMILY, WONDERFULLY SURPRISED WHY NIGHT BLACK RAVEN COME TO THEM IN THE NIGHT.
    Yes. Definitely. There were innocent victims, and God forbid someone to be a similar victim. But, their number was overstated at times. And then the situation was such that the country was on the verge of survival. Here is an article on this
    topic http://cccp-revivel.blogspot.com/2012/04/za-chto-stalin-rasstrelival-generalov.h
    tml
  24. Gur
    Gur 24 September 2012 11: 50
    +8
    I wonder what you mean by the term "got out into the people" ?? Better welfare ?? If we deal with these "people" separately, then I think the picture will not be attractive, and it remains so to this day. Americans who warmed their hands after the Great Depression. The British, from time immemorial for their "knocking out into the people" colonized half of the world, and mercilessly exploited it. French people? Germans? Benelux countries? Say thank you to those countries who have not yet thought of exposing this "out-of-the-ordinary" account for inhuman domestication, for massacres and genocide. Stalin may not be Mother Teresa. Well, you don't need to hang too much on it either. I liked the phrase from the film about Messing: - Who so decided that Stalin was to blame for everything. Didn't you, I Khrushchev and the rest of us lived with this, did not see all this. We lived at the same time and we are all to blame for this "something like this. But for the fact that he pulled the country out of the Middle Ages, (where we are now so stubbornly pulled by those who have broken into people), he cleaned the face of the fascists and showed the rest of the world that the USSR is not a dick. naturally with all the people) This is why he should be given due gratitude.
  25. Patriot
    Patriot 24 September 2012 12: 07
    +2
    And also, what is most symbolic and surprising is that under the tyrant and "monster" Stalin, the country developed at an unheard-of pace, factories and factories were built, institutions worked and created unique samples, the army was getting stronger, and the birth rate was at its height.
    But with Vova Putin, who is building himself a great benefactor, a completely different situation is evident. The destruction of the army, the steady degradation of science, industry and agriculture, the gigantic dimensions of corruption and embezzlement, and most importantly the extinction of the nation. These are the main achievements of Putin’s current government.
    No wonder they say that the road to hell is lined with good intentions. Also, any sensible person can see how our RUSSIA is constantly being destroyed by shutting down with blasphemy deeds!
    1. lewerlin53rus
      lewerlin53rus 24 September 2012 12: 54
      +1
      Well, if you make comparisons such as Stalin-Putin, then with whom then can you compare this whole swamp n ... brotherhood?
      1. Fox 070
        24 September 2012 13: 06
        +6
        Quote: lewerlin53rus
        if you make comparisons like Stalin-Putin,

        The comparison is clearly not in favor of the current government.
        1. lewerlin53rus
          lewerlin53rus 24 September 2012 18: 47
          +1
          I compare, not equal. Stalin has no equal, and unfortunately, probably, it won’t be very long
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 39
            -1
            Quote: lewerlin53rus
            Stalin has no equal, and unfortunately, probably, for a very long time there will not be

            Pol Pot, was the leader of the extreme left regime of the Khmer Rouge, which exterminated about 3,5 million Cambodians in 1,5 years. A worthy successor to the cause of the "leader of the peoples".
            And at the expense of "unfortunately it won't be long" - I would say - fortunately!
            1. Rink
              Rink 30 September 2012 15: 31
              0
              KonradYou really live in some unique, your own world. Your visions and ideas are weakly correlated with reality.
        2. Apollo
          Apollo 24 September 2012 19: 12
          +3
          Quote: Fox 070
          The comparison is clearly not in favor of the current government.



          We must call a spade a spade. We criticize Yeltsin and why we are silent about who brought Putin to power. We scold Serdyukov and who appointed him to this post. We criticize Medvedev and who appointed him to the post of prime minister. Matyukay NATO and who opened a transshipment point in Ulyanovsk. Who opened an air corridor for NATO troops. Who handed over Libya, Yugoslavia, Tunisia and Iraq .. Who said take as much sovereignty as you can. Who signed the Bialowieza Agreement.Why there is still no legal assessment of these agreements..Why police and military personnel in Dagestan and Chechnya are still dying.Questions Questions Questions.
          1. Apollo
            Apollo 24 September 2012 19: 23
            +2
            I will add why there is no union, because that everyone will sit down !!! All former party nomenclature
          2. Rink
            Rink 30 September 2012 15: 37
            +1
            Quote: Apollon
            ..... We criticize Yeltsin and why we are silent about who brought Putin to power. .....

            It seems that Putin came not thanks to Yeltsin, but in spite of.
            At least, when the EBN renounced on TV, he looked as if his eggs were still pinched by the door ...

            Although I do not presume to state it unequivocally, but in my opinion it is not so simple there.
            1. Konrad
              Konrad 30 September 2012 19: 15
              -1
              Quote: Skating rink
              but in my opinion it’s not so simple there.

              It smells of provocation!
            2. V. Salama
              V. Salama 1 October 2012 14: 31
              0
              Quote: Skating rink
              It seems that Putin came not thanks to Yeltsin, but in spite of.
              This could be, theoretically, if these are pure puppets, absolutely not hungry for personal power, which is clearly not the case. But in practice, there is evidence to the contrary. from sources of varying certainty, but of a very similar opinion. Of those at hand:
              1. Victor Ilyukhin. The war for Russia. I can’t survive the third president.
              2. Yuri Skuratov. Putin is a performer of evil will.
              3. Anna Granatova. Clan of the Yeltsins.
        3. Zmitcer
          Zmitcer 24 September 2012 20: 10
          -7
          Stalin 300 Belarusians destroyed, 000 repressed. Belarus lost Vilno, Bialystok. Putin is the annual subsidy of the crafty regime, amounting to more than 5 billion a year, only due to smuggling of solvents, the pocket regime began to earn in 2012. over 1 billion per month! More than 700 Belarusians work in Russia. so for now the bill is in Putin’s favor. Unlike this evil red-headed dwarf, a Russian Georgian and a subhuman, Hitler's best friend and other mustached creatures, Putin is simply a wonderful person. God grant him health. wink
          1. Gur
            Gur 25 September 2012 09: 37
            +3
            Yes, you are my dear, pshek and not Belarusian. Rubbing your hands? You are waiting for Lukash to be knocked down and to take away the "native" Belarus. And about the red-haired dwarf, you would have picked up some drool, it is not for you to hover over burnt villages and burnt people.
            1. Zmitcer
              Zmitcer 25 September 2012 11: 27
              -3
              Quote: GUR
              Yes, you are dear, pshek and not Belarusian

              laughing then how did you determine whether you held your tongue across the monitor? Now it is clear how the "enemy of the people" was previously defined by language! Yes. I see you can't strangle genes with your finger. wink In general, language is a universal tool, you can determine nationality, blurt out something off topic, helps you move up the ranks and lick portraits of leaders.
              Quote: GUR
              it’s not for you to blaze over burnt villages and burnt people.

              this is what. language work again? do not overwork. In addition to stamps in the style of 37 years, continuous verbiage. It was the Stalinists who destroyed the Belarusians and shared its territory with the Germans. So on all of them, and on their intercessors and admirers there is a brand of executioners.
              1. Gur
                Gur 25 September 2012 12: 14
                +3
                Yes, a fool can only learn to spoil .... pull your tongue out of the ass, whose it is there ??? Your words and concepts give a much more eloquent definition of you and the cliches of your masterminds, unlike you, I was born, raised and lived under the USSR, and did not lick Stalin but did not judge, like Lenin. It's not for me to judge, and not from my bell tower. But also I am not going to hang everything on one. The whole country was not Agans. And the crap that you are here about the division of Belarus between the USSR and Germany thrust into the same ass from which you got out.
              2. Konrad
                Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 42
                -1
                Quote: Zmitcer
                you don’t strangle genes with your finger.

                Yes, genetics, as "pseudoscience", no matter how strangled - did not work!
        4. mark021105
          mark021105 24 September 2012 20: 35
          0
          http://prozorov.lenizdat.su/essays/essay_10.shtml

          Alexander Prozorov "Putin and Stalin. Comparative Analysis"

          Compare at your leisure ...
          1. Zmitcer
            Zmitcer 24 September 2012 22: 14
            -4
            Quote: mark021105
            Putin and Stalin

            And you read the Bible. What do you advise me here? Or from this reading those who were destroyed by the Stalinist regime, 300 of my fellow countrymen will rise again? Or will millions who died in World War II rise from this, because this red-haired dwarf, was friends with Hitler, sent him trains with food, allowed the Wehrmacht troops to create training bases on the territory of the USSR, and was sure that there would be no war? And after the start of the war, he sat for 000 weeks in the toilet and shit under himself out of fear, while soldiers, without weapons, without commanders, died in thousands .. Don't read the Bible, it's too early .. there is a lot of text, you can't master, and the commandment do not create an idol, do not be a fool, it can damage an immature consciousness.
            1. Oleg0705
              Oleg0705 24 September 2012 22: 36
              -1
              Quote: Zmitcer
              was friends with Hitler, sent him trains with food


              But to take credit from a completely obvious adversary before the war is
              unbelievable!


              http://gidepark.ru/community/129/content/1327757 winked
            2. mark021105
              mark021105 24 September 2012 22: 51
              +1
              Quote: Zmitcer
              And you read the Bible.


              I read, periodically, in contrast to you, judging by your statements ...))
              1. Zmitcer
                Zmitcer 27 September 2012 01: 53
                -2
                Quote: mark021105
                I read periodically

                - "monkey" and glasses
            3. V. Salama
              V. Salama 1 October 2012 15: 11
              +1
              Quote: Zmitcer
              ..this red dwarf, was friends with Hitler,
              It is not true.
              Quote: Zmitcer
              sent him food trains
              This is true and this was a necessity. Question - what did we get in return?
              Quote: Zmitcer
              allowed the Wehrmacht troops to create training bases on the territory of the USSR
              It seems that in Lipetsk a German school was built with German money, where our pilots were trained with German money and on their mathematical base (they were preparing for a future war). There was also the production of heavy weapons, at the expense of them, that we, too, were more in the black.
              Quote: Zmitcer
              and was sure that there would be no war
              The case is difficult, I don’t even know whether to comment on this. He was absolutely sure of this, setting the task, in the early 30s, to create a powerful economy in 10 years (and he guessed by the timing) - now even Putin quotes him. An order was issued to put the troops on alert (counterfeiters removed from the state archive, but did not cover the tracks in the archives of military units) Hitler determined the day and time of the attack on the USSR in just a week. This true date and time was reported to Stalin only by Churchill (he did not lose anything, but wanted to earn points), in less than a day. Stalin did not believe him, because he knew what kind of fruit it was. This is his only mistake according to Western historians.
              Quote: Zmitcer
              And after the start of the war, he sat for 2 weeks in the outhouse and shit under himself from fear,
              this is also not true. One of the main slanderers - the shifter D.Volkogonov, when he was convicted of falsification, was not even embarrassed, that is what a professional in slander means. There are still witnesses and documents (a magazine for registering visitors in Stalin’s reception room), Zhukov was there as well (in the first hours of the war), who later (in memoirs) refused under pressure and also had to slander - a proven and published fact.
        5. Oleg0705
          Oleg0705 24 September 2012 21: 54
          +1
          Fox 070,


          I allow myself with full confidence to name President V.V. Putin the best, most productive, smart and successful of the rulers of Russia at least in the past century and a half.
          And the comparison above in the photo, I consider it an ordinary provocation of the app, which are many on this site.
          1. bachast
            bachast 24 September 2012 22: 40
            +1
            And the comparison above in the photo, I consider it an ordinary provocation

            This is not a provocation, it is a kindergarten. At the level of a day nursery, one can draw another analogy.
            Today, under Putin, I’m sitting in a warm, spacious apartment on a soft couch, tanned after a vacation at sea. I took out a battle of Jameson from the refrigerator (clogged with food), read VO, write and say whatever I want, without looking back and without trembling from knocking on the door. happy, well-fed children, my wife are running around. I have a wonderful job with a salary, a car (of course, not a luxurious Packard like Stalin’s, but a fresh foreign car), etc. ...........
            Imagine life under Stalin. Need to remind about the scammer’s neighbor? A working day for workdays? Evicted to Siberia? And so on .... Well, how's the comparison? Silly? Yes, it's stupid, but just like this demotivator
            1. Konrad
              Konrad 30 September 2012 19: 18
              +1
              Quote: bachast
              You can draw another analogy.

              Like those who secretly write obscene words on the fence.
            2. V. Salama
              V. Salama 1 October 2012 15: 27
              0
              Quote: bachast
              Imagine life under Stalin.
              You can imagine anything. We must ask those who lived at that time. Opinions will certainly be different, everything will rest against objectivity. We have masters sovrunitsyna give part for the whole. My parents also lived at that time and were also happy, no one forbade talking about the case, they told a lot of interesting things about repression and informers. Of course, they did not say anything about foreign cars, as well as about cell phones.
    2. kush62
      kush62 24 September 2012 13: 56
      +1
      And yet, what is most symbolic and surprising is that under the tyrant and "monster" Stalin, the country developed at an unheard of pace

      For example, Belomorkanal, everything is covered with bones, but are you ready, Patriot for such feats or just to indulge?
      Yes, the country still has problems and not now they have appeared. And who are the non-current democrats are the same former communists. Take 99,9% of the bureaucrats, there was a single house — they were there, before that there were communists — they were there, now they are united, and it will always be so. It is very easy to be against it, but what did you do?
  26. Bigriver
    Bigriver 24 September 2012 12: 33
    +3
    Two global information outbursts that formed the myths of "cannibalistic Stalinism" occurred during the reign of Khrushchev and Gorbachev-EBN.
    The authority of Stalin greatly interfered with Comrade. Khrushchev. Amazingly, these myths revived under the democratizers and received a new breath. Well, here it’s clear too. Information support for liberalization was necessary.
    And in our history, unfortunately, there simply hasn’t yet been a period when there would have been a social order for the truth about the Stalin period.
    So everything is ahead. But, the moment is interesting. The society is full of informational democratic crap.
    1. Fox 070
      24 September 2012 12: 55
      +1
      Quote: BigRiver
      And in our history, unfortunately, there simply hasn’t yet been a period when there would have been a social order for the truth about the Stalin period.

      Unfortunately, Vladimir, you are right! Everyone who ruled the country after Stalin had no time for the country. And why bother about it: the groundwork is good, there is enough gold reserve, industry, incl. and the military, it works as it should, unmeasured minerals ... So they flooded the power to divide, and whatever it was, they began to scold Stalin and powder the brain with his "repressions".
      To this day, nothing has changed, but there is hope that such an order (for the truth about Stalin) will soon appear. "+"
      1. with
        with 24 September 2012 13: 10
        0
        Quote: Fox 070

        Fox 070 (7)

        Just a request !!!!!
        You have good posts (from my point of view), BUT the avatar knocks down immediately !!! ё! Ё!)))
        Is it possible to change it (I understand that I am interfering in your personal life, for this I ask) !!!!
        Regards Met !!! hi
        1. Fox 070
          24 September 2012 13: 45
          +1
          Quote: met
          Is it possible to change it (

          It is simply impossible to refuse a polite request. hi
          I hope you enjoy this profile picture. what
          1. with
            with 24 September 2012 14: 50
            0
            Quote: Fox 070
            I hope you enjoy this avatar

            Chessyuslovo, just give a break !!!
            Tired of tur.agentoa, mosad and other fools!
            1. Odessa
              Odessa 24 September 2012 14: 53
              +1
              with,
              Chessyuslovo, just give a break !!!

              For how long? After all, all the same, after about 15-20 minutes you will begin to hooligan. laughing
              1. with
                with 25 September 2012 06: 17
                0
                Quote: Odessa
                For how long? After all, all the same, after about 15-20 minutes you will begin to hooligan.

                I agree!!!! love
  27. kush62
    kush62 24 September 2012 12: 33
    +1
    Not a site, but a participle. Orange has seen, the anti-Stalinist has seen. The queue of the swamp, Sakashvilo or United Russia?
  28. Gur
    Gur 24 September 2012 12: 35
    +4
    You know, I think that this is not about Putin, Medvedev, here it is again about us. We are loyal and law-abiding, they push us through, we agree, we are taken away from us, we are stupidly silent. They mock our history, faith and way of life, we only have enough to discuss on sites. The country is filled with all kinds of piderasts, from Novalny, Novodvorskaya (this is probably not a pederast definition, but it’s not a matter of essence) to all kinds of false historians, we dutifully demolish these nits. The country’s floor hangs up, listens and trusts people. posing as honest, unprincipled, white and furry. But for some reason, located on the upper steps of the perch. Which seems to contradict honesty and unprincipledness. And while this is happening, we must blame ourselves. Then insight may come.
    1. Petrix
      Petrix 24 September 2012 17: 50
      0
      Quote: GUR
      we must blame ourselves.

      This is a must when evaluating any events. What are we doing today for the future?
      There is a problem, but few are looking for a way out. They act even less. The world will change and become better anyway, but do you need sacrifices to rock the people?
      1. Gur
        Gur 25 September 2012 09: 27
        0
        Victims?? the victims will be unequivocal, even if you don’t twist, and some stealing goats who fled to the west will be more like yelling that they are victims, what other victims !!!
  29. rennim
    rennim 24 September 2012 12: 49
    0
    If now we consider all those who conduct subversive and anti-people activities ... and direct them to the appropriate execution of sentences ... I think migrant workers in Russia will be ordered to go.
  30. Patriot
    Patriot 24 September 2012 12: 54
    -2
    Quote: GUR
    Gur
    You know, I think that this is not about Putin, Medvedev, here it is again about us. We are loyal and law-abiding, they push us through, we agree, we are taken away from us, we are stupidly silent. They mock our history, faith and way of life, we only have enough to discuss on sites. The country is filled with all kinds of piderasts, from Novalny, Novodvorskaya (this is probably not a pederast definition, but it’s not a matter of essence) to all kinds of false historians, we dutifully demolish these nits. The country’s floor hangs up, listens and trusts people. posing as honest, unprincipled, white and furry. But for some reason, located on the upper steps of the perch. Which seems to contradict honesty and unprincipledness. And while this is happening, we must blame ourselves. Then insight may come.


    I don’t know what about the pide ... of Navalny and Novodvorskaya, but judging by the destructive acts of Putin, he is the most important pide in my country ..ast.
    REMEMBER! BY THE MATTERS OF THEM YOU LEARN THEM!
    1. Gur
      Gur 24 September 2012 14: 12
      +2
      Think narrowly, you are again stepping on the same rake. Again, one or at least the main one is to blame. Start with yourself. I don't want to quote the words of the amerskoy president, but now they are probably appropriate - "What have you done for your homeland?" And another question. if not Confused, who then, what other candidates? Who else to choose for the presidency and blame for our troubles ??
      1. Konrad
        Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 52
        +1
        Quote: GUR
        Who else to choose for president and to make guilty of our troubles ??

        Kings were bad, general secretaries, presidents - and who was good in Russia ??? Maybe it's better to look in the mirror? And it’s better to go clean the garbage, put things in order around you.
  31. bask
    bask 24 September 2012 13: 03
    0
    Fox. To talk about other people's lives just sitting at the laptop .. And if they put you not set off against the wall. Would you fill up full pants.? Yes. And I’m not comparing him with this jerk Saakashvili. But I say that Western claims should be directed to Georgia and not to Russia.
  32. understudy
    understudy 24 September 2012 13: 28
    +4
    Quote: Zmitcer
    And latent gays, or not latent, but explicit, really like such peasants "strong personalities". Well

    Rzhu ... favorite thesis of the "gay" - "All opposing them are latent homosexuals!" Proceeding from this, the conclusion suggests itself - All those who are against Joseph Vissarionovich are terry Stalinists.
    _______________________________
    Long live the Great Stalin! De Gaulle said? ... Stalin was not dead, he was dissolved in the future. Something like this?
  33. Patriot
    Patriot 24 September 2012 13: 39
    -4
    Quote: Vadivak
    Vadivak Today, 10:48 ↑ 2 
    Quote: urzul
    Delirium do not carry frank

    Who is this nonsense? And that we have something from the domestic for sale? And medicine is at 97 and the standard of living is at 59th place, between Romania and Mongolia.



    Greetings, my friend. You do not argue this Putin agent. So, do not waste your strength. And, to be honest, I began to come to the conclusion that these two comrades urzul and esaul are classic Kremlin trolls.
    1. Konrad
      Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 54
      +1
      Quote: Patriot
      Greetings, my friend

      In! Did Ilyich get out of the mausoleum ???
  34. bask
    bask 24 September 2012 13: 51
    0
    Yes, PATRIOT here doh march ... and both.
  35. 8 company
    8 company 24 September 2012 14: 50
    -2
    Facts Against Falsehood.
    Archived document:
    “Information on the condition of the military units of the special corps in the MPR”,
    prepared by the NKVD as of October 1, 1938. Soldiers of the 36th Special Motorized Rifle Division arrested as members of an anti-Soviet military conspiracy:
    Wreed the commander of the 107th Infantry Regiment, Major Kvashnin,
    Commissioner of the 107th Rifle Regiment - Art. political instructor Kucherov,
    room Captain Sirotin, commander of the 107th Infantry Regiment for households,
    beg. food service 107 joint venture - captain Minchukov,
    the commander of the 1st battalion of the 107th infantry regiment - Captain Kuklin,
    Chief of Staff of the 107th Rifle Regiment - Captain Forov,
    room Chief of Staff of the 107th Rifle Regiment - Art. Lieutenant Isaev,
    room Chief of Staff of the 107th Rifle Regiment - Art. Lieutenant Parfyonov,
    political instructor of the company of the 107th Infantry Regiment - Lieutenant Kogan,
    platoon commander of the 107th Infantry Regiment - ml. Lieutenant Ilyin,
    the chief of the financial service of the 107th Infantry Regiment - Lieutenant Levin,
    pompotech of the 107th Infantry Regiment - military technician of the 2nd rank Kabarchuk,
    heavy company commander of the 106th motorized rifle regiment - Art. Lieutenant Pavlov,
    the chief of staff of the 108th infantry regiment - Eskevich,
    Assistant Chief of Staff of the 108th Rifle Regiment - Lieutenant Tikhonov,
    the commander of the 36th artillery regiment - Colonel Alferov,
    the chief of staff of the 36th artillery regiment, Major Kozlov,
    artillery battery commander of the 36th artillery regiment - Art. Lieutenant Brekhov,
    beg. dignity of service of the 36th artillery regiment - military doctor of the 3rd rank Shcherbakov,
    platoon commander of the 36th artillery regiment - ml. Lieutenant Zakharov,
    Captain Kuzmenko, commander of the repair and restoration park (RVP) of the 36th separate motorized rifle division,
    repair technician - military technician of the 2nd rank Kirichek,
    repair technician - military technician of the 2nd rank Sokolov,
    the commander of the regimental school is Captain Tsoi-chan-ger,
    Assistant Commander of the Tank Battalion - Captain Makeev,
    platoon commander of the reconnaissance battalion - Lieutenant Kravchenko,
    junior command staff - 11 people, ordinary personnel - 44 people.
    Source: Russian State Military Archive (RGVA), F.9, Op.39s, D.54, L.6-9.
  36. Patriot
    Patriot 24 September 2012 15: 00
    -2
    Quote: bask
    bask
    Yes, PATRIOT here doh march ... and both.


    DOH ..... Both of these? Well I do not know. Which opposition will sit here for hours every day?
  37. tumbajerry
    tumbajerry 24 September 2012 15: 12
    +1
    oh, and the srach rose, it’s too lazy to read the comments until the end, so all liberals
    THE CASE OF LENIN STALIN LIVED, LIVES AND WILL LIVE AND WIN !!!

    dwarfs, do not tear your throat from a liberal screech!
  38. bask
    bask 24 September 2012 15: 16
    -1
    Yes dah ... ruined by an innocent norm from 1917 to 1952. As these revolutionaries-Marxists genocide the Cossacks everyone knows. It’s also a lie .. MAIN RUSSIA -SSSR WAS ,, SHARE, BY ETHNIC, NOT TERRITORIAL PRINCIPLE 1924. The question is, what did the Russian nation get? Not what !!! Even inside Russia there is not a single olast-land. The USSR would not be divided by Stalin according to the nat .. principle, we would now live in united Russia. And not the Russian humiliation in the “union” republics. As now proctically everywhere citizens, 2nd, sort. And there are still refugees in the interior of Russia, from Chechnya. All thanks to Stalin leader bl ... I ,, redskins ,,, !!! In Ukraine, do not humiliate.
  39. Centaurus
    Centaurus 24 September 2012 16: 28
    +5
    Thanks to the author.
    Now I know for sure why our great-grandfathers died not only "For the Motherland! .."
    but also "For Stalin!" And then I heard such horrors about him, unfortunately, I understand that they are not completely groundless, but still I doubt, however, that with someone else the USSR would have won the war soldier drinks . In any case, since Stalin won it. By the way, I didn’t even long ago hear one version here: http: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = afRaGBVxJag & feature = plcp, that de losses, the military we and the Germans were even the same, but our Soviet population is am ... (well, I can do without a mat) destroyed by the most primitive and cruel genocide. And by the way, it’s not clear how in the West they still deny that there was also the Slovenian Holocaust. Hitler, they would give him free rein, in general, we all took us to the root, all the same it is a pity that he didn’t fall for our living ... sorry for the bloodthirstiness. feel
  40. bask
    bask 24 September 2012 16: 43
    -2
    Hitler and Nemchura did business in Russia, no one argues. ZAM WAS DIVIDING THE COUNTRY BY THE NATIONAL AND NOT TERRITORIAL PRINCIPLE. In the republic ????? Ukraine, too, has been primordially Russian lands, has grown, Donbas, Kharkov, Crimea, Odessa, Sevastopol, and so on ... They have nothing to do with Ukraine. All, thanks to, I’m the leader, all-skinned,, Tov Dzhugashvili !.
    1. Gur
      Gur 24 September 2012 16: 58
      +1
      Learn history, in general, the division of Russia on nat grounds is not the merit of Stalin, it began much earlier under Lenin. Decree on the self-determination of nations. Teach, or at least read, and do not ascribe, do not blame everything on one.
    2. Centaurus
      Centaurus 25 September 2012 22: 06
      0
      And what annoys you more, that Crimea and Donetsk-Kharkov have moved to Ukraine, or that Stalin-Gruzin?
  41. Ruslan67
    Ruslan67 24 September 2012 16: 48
    +3
    as always, you can argue for a long time and with pleasure, but in reality everything is much simpler: if tomorrow the German Nemtsov anal Kasparov Sobchak is publicly hanged on the red square, etc. for the West it will be a terrible crime and most of us will drink with joy while standing with Stalin: if what then the presumptuous party bureaucrat or stupid general was leaned against the wall for the collapse of the work, then he is a tyrant for relatives of those excommunicated from the trough
  42. red 015
    red 015 24 September 2012 17: 15
    0
    Churchill's words About Stalin: "Stalin ... accepted Russia with a plow and left it with nuclear weapons", that says it all
    1. Centaurus
      Centaurus 25 September 2012 22: 08
      0
      This is despite the fact that everything, or almost everything in every sense, had to be rebuilt.
      There is even a poem about this: "From the patriachal plow, for some 20 years, Russia became industrial, created armor and bread ... (further on the internet)" drinks
  43. bask
    bask 24 September 2012 17: 15
    -4
    I taught history perfectly. The USSR was formed in 1924. Lenin had nothing to do with it. And who prevented Stalin from canceling this thesis of Lenin. Obbyavili that it was Trotskyism and everything. Stalin had unlimited power. And at the banquet on the occasion of the victory in the Second World War he I drank for the people of Russia. But I didn’t do anything for this people. WHY SHARE THE COUNTRY A NATIONAL, APARTMENT, WAS THE SAME BEFORE THE YEAR 17 RUSSIA WITH REGIONS. Cho is weak to answer, there is no organization. ??? And now we live in national apartments, Present the ORGANIZATIONS, Stalinist Marxists.
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 25 September 2012 00: 09
      +2
      shitty you taught history- the USSR was formed in 22
    2. Gur
      Gur 25 September 2012 09: 16
      +1
      Twenty five again. really worthless now they are teaching you history, again Stalin alone is to blame ... Well, if only if my grandmother had a dick she was a grandfather. He did for the Soviet people. And for all the consequences that we are now slurping, you can go to the grave to EBNE and put a little pecker, and stick Gorbi in his speck.
      1. Centaurus
        Centaurus 25 September 2012 22: 11
        +1
        Do not blame the generation that read the books of Soress. stop
    3. Centaurus
      Centaurus 25 September 2012 22: 10
      0
      Not only that, it’s also nonsense ... lol
  44. Bekzat
    Bekzat 24 September 2012 17: 18
    +1
    Greetings to all, the article is interesting. It's hard to add something, because on one side there are victims of repression, on the other side is the power of the country, its Army and Navy. On the blood and bones of people, victims of the "construction" of the world superpower, there was a state-USSR.
    He came to the conclusion that every power was built on blood, whether it be the USA, England, China, also applies to Russia. An example can be cited from history: the Empire of Genghis Khan, Lame Timur, Ivan the Terrible, the Roman Empire. I have a double attitude towards him: yes, he is a CRIMINAL, but he is also the CREATOR of a POWERFUL STATE.
    1. Konrad
      Konrad 30 September 2012 14: 59
      0
      Quote: Bekzat
      every power was built on blood

      On the blood of slaves. Only some of these slaves were captured in wars, others turned their people into slaves.
  45. kush62
    kush62 24 September 2012 17: 43
    +2
    Quote: Stalin was forced to go to the so-called "meat grinder", due to the fault of the Western powers, which at any second could attack the young Soviet State

    And how many enemies are now around Russia, and suddenly, with a swamp of all the march into the gulag, to build another construction site of the century, etc. Oh, there will be a horror of stink and squeak.
    Can you imagine, under Stalin, that our opposition would marry to the German embassy behind the Reichsmarks?
    1. Konrad
      Konrad 30 September 2012 19: 22
      -2
      Quote: kush62
      And how many enemies are around Russia now

      Painful imagination haunts. Dig a bunker, buy salt and matches!
      1. Rink
        Rink 30 September 2012 20: 05
        +1
        Quote: Konrad
        Painful imagination haunts. Dig a bunker, buy salt and matches!

        Konradcan list friends of Russia? (Well, except for the Russian army and the Russian fleet).
        1. Rink
          Rink 30 September 2012 21: 20
          0
          laughing nothing to answer, minus silently ...
  46. gregor6549
    gregor6549 24 September 2012 17: 51
    +3
    And yet, in Arguments and Facts, number 38 this year, a very clever article by Mikhail Weller was published "By the hands of an empire?" about the benefits of dictatorship and the destructiveness of democracy at critical moments in the history of different countries, including the history of Russia. I recommend. It is not about Stalin, but the article clearly substantiates the need for the appearance of such "dictators" as Stalin precisely at critical moments. The main thing here is not to confuse a true dictator who cares first of all about the welfare of the whole country from the "maitre in caps" who care mainly about personal locks in the glorious city of London and no less personal accounts in no less glorious Switzerland under loud cries about the need to breastfeed, but defend Sevastopol from the intrigues of these "zhovto blakitnyh" and other different orange.
  47. DEfindER
    DEfindER 24 September 2012 17: 56
    +5
    I want to say the obvious things that for some reason no one wants to notice - if Stalin hadn’t planted and shot, then 1000 times more people would die, because a civil war would begin, the collapse of the country, civil strife, and the complete destruction of the Russian nation ..
    By the way, you don’t need to go far for an example, remember Libya ... with its traitors, who were not planted or shot, and as a result the country's weakness before an external aggressor ..
  48. Comrade1945
    Comrade1945 24 September 2012 18: 09
    +2
    Mouth front, comrades!
    "Well, what can I tell you about Sakhalin ..."
    Bravo, bravo and bravo again. The article is just great! Frankly speaking, everything is striking: from stylistics and vocabulary all the way to the painstaking work of the author, the search for grains of information, in order to add up a fragmented and decades-old distorted picture.
    I want to say only one thing. Nothing pleases a person so much as a competent, beautiful and accurate expression of his own thoughts. Thank.
    no pasaran =)
    1. shurup
      shurup 25 September 2012 00: 28
      0
      And hello to you, oh not my 1945th friend!
      I want to add that in order to put together the puzzle, for the start, someone has to cut it ornately.
      Other I bring to the attention that modern comrade Stalin is not the son of Prezhevalsky, but Z. Brzezinski is the brainchild of which he is rightly proud.
      Amen.
  49. bask
    bask 24 September 2012 18: 11
    -2
    So Beck wrote that Stalin was 50/50, he was both an executioner and a great reformer. From plow to outer space. In just 20 years. What did the current democrats do in 20 years? In pepe economics ..., in medicine, defense, and so on to the end., I’m surprised that everyone’s so amazed, these are common truths in history. There are no ideal people. Even persecution of the church. Thousands of martyred martyrs in the 20s and 30s. Explosion of the Church of Christ the Savior in 34 YEAR. If it were not for the Second World War, the persecution of the priesthood continued. Where to put these facts.
    1. gregor6549
      gregor6549 24 September 2012 18: 36
      +3
      Speak the facts. But clergy and holiness are different things, like temple and soul are different things. The believer has a temple in his soul. And here is what many clergymen began to do when the state again turned their tender eyes to them and exempted from many taxes under a microscope. And it turned out that some clergymen walked in rags and plowed in their modest allotment and plow, while others quickly moved from the cart to Mercedes and can no longer raise their hands for blessing, because the pens are obese and it’s hard to raise a hand in gold rings. Do not consider blasphemy, but somewhere like that. And this is not only in Russia
    2. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 26 September 2012 19: 24
      0
      Sorry, but the demolition of 30g. Cathedral of Christ the Savior great blasphemy and stupidity !. Restoring it to 00 instead of the pool, even more stupid! Have you ever wondered why religion dominates in developing countries? Why is Islam gaining strength and the Russian Orthodox Church is losing parishioners? So look how the priests (not priests) behave? Where will the respect for the Russian Orthodox Church come from!
  50. Apollo
    Apollo 24 September 2012 18: 43
    0
    [media = http: // [media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = v1hLtFn4CLU]]