Ultimate assault rifle for special forces

104

How much does the car that the couriers use or the entry-level taxis use? Usually this is the most inexpensive car of category "A" or "B" costing, by today's standards, about 500-700 thousand rubles (excluding used cars). What do Formula 1 pilots drive? So, the price of a Formula 1 race car is about $10–15 million – a very significant difference, right?

Different tasks, different levels of training of specialists - different means for their solution. Image by wikipedia.org

Another example is that cooks in a factory canteen use 3–4 inexpensive Chinese knives for 300–500 rubles when cooking, and are quite satisfied with them. A Japanese professional chef in his work uses half a dozen or a dozen professional knives, the cost of which can be 100-200 thousand rubles each.



And what do we see when it comes to the armed forces (AF)? In the armed forces, both a conscript who has served six months and a professional commando with 5–10 years of experience are armed with approximately the same rifle weapons: in Russia - this is a Kalashnikov assault rifle, in the USA - the M-4 carbine. Someone may object that the conscript will receive an outdated AK-74M from the warehouse, and the newest AK-12 will be issued to the special forces, but is the difference between the AK-74M and AK-12 so fundamental?

Of course, special operations forces (SOF) units receive special supplies - sniper rifles, optical sights, communications equipment, but now we are talking about the main small arms - submachine gun / assault rifle. Is it possible to equip the MTR with Western machine guns / assault rifles? Yes, probably, but, in principle, at the moment there is simply nothing in the world that is radically superior to the weapons of the AK series. The NGSW program can give some results, but here too revolutions are not expected.

How much does a modern assault rifle cost? We will focus on the civilian market with similar models and open data available on the Internet.

Models and prices


For example, Saiga-5,45 isp. 30 costs about 50 thousand rubles, respectively, we can assume that the cost of the AK-74M is approximately at the same level. The cost of a 50-series Kalashnikov assault rifle purchased for the Russian Guard, according to various sources, is 75-75 thousand rubles. Approximately 1 thousand rubles or 000 dollars, according to open data, is the latest AK-12.

A civilian SR1 carbine with balanced automatics in caliber 223 Rem costs a little more - about 110-120 thousand rubles, or about 1500 dollars. It can be assumed that the cost of the A-545 Kovrov assault rifle with balanced automation is somewhere at this level.

From top to bottom: Saiga-5,45 Spanish. 30, AK-74M, AK-200, AK-12, SR1, A-545. Image by wikipedia.org

What about "they"?

The cost of the main weapon of the US Army - the M-4 carbine, is about 800-1500 US dollars, that is, approximately the same or slightly more expensive than the cost of Russian weapons (we are talking only about the cost of a rifle, without the cost of additional accessories). The cost of the German rifle Heckler & Koch G36 is even less - about 600 euros or about 60 thousand rubles. The newest German HK416 is much more expensive - about 3 US dollars. The Belgian FN SCAR rifles cost about the same. The civilian version of the SIG Sauer NGSW-R MCX Spear, that is, the rifle actually being developed under the NGSW program, has been announced at a price of $000.

From top to bottom: M-4, Heckler & Koch G36, Heckler & Koch 416, FN SCAR-L, FN SCAR-H, SIG Sauer MCX Spear

Perhaps the fact that the military weapons used in the armed forces of Russia and NATO countries, comparable in cost, has a basis - more is not needed? Or maybe the armed forces of the countries of the world are still mired in the concept of mass armies and are not ready to abandon equipping them with a single model of small arms, despite the fact that in the XNUMXst century the role of special operations forces has increased more than ever, and often it is on them are the most difficult and most responsible tasks that can change the balance of power on the world stage?

Why in general can and should the cost of an automatic rifle for MTR increase? Of course, we are not talking about covering weapons with gold patterns and rhinestones (although, if we talk about export, you should not disdain such “improvements” - to each his own). First you need to understand why small arms are generally extremely conservative and what makes it difficult to develop.

Growth problems


Technological barriers - this is not about revolutionary developments, for example, energy sources that will allow you to create a conditional "blaster". No, everything is much more prosaic, technological limitations are machine tools and production lines on which small arms and cartridges are now mass-produced.

For example, designers have developed some promising design, and at the stage of approval of design documentation, technologists tell them: “Are you crazy, what are we going to do this for you? Get out of here, redo it all over again, and more stamping ... ". And as a result, no matter how you scoff, the output will again be AK. Technological limitations are especially relevant when we plan to produce ten million machine guns and several billion cartridges for them.

Regulatory Barriers - these are various GOSTs, the requirements of the armed forces for the duration of storage, the possibility of manufacturing in a nuclear war, and so on and so forth. What does this mean in practice? For example, some requirement for the storage of cartridges without loss of their properties for 50 years at a storage temperature of -60 to +70 degrees Celsius (conditionally). And cartridges in a polymer sleeve are guaranteed not to withstand such a requirement (yet). But if we are talking about a cartridge for MTR, which will not be produced in the amount of 10 billion units, then this requirement is not essential and can be reduced to 5-10 years, at temperatures from -40 to +50 degrees Celsius. And as a result, a cartridge with a polymer sleeve may well go into series, use MTR, and due to its lower mass, it will be possible to increase the wearable ammunition load by 30–40% and increase the effectiveness of combat operations now, and not when the “last and decisive battle” comes ".

Cost-effectiveness - This is one of the most important criteria in the development of weapons and weapons. It would seem that everything is logical, the effectiveness of the weapon should grow in proportion to the growth of its cost? But it's not that simple.

For example, we have a standard magazine for 30 rounds. We take and replace the used spring with a flat wave spring made of a more expensive material, which increases the magazine capacity by 3 rounds. Wonderful? But there is a problem - with a new spring, the store costs three times more.

It turns out that according to the cost-effectiveness criterion, we do not pass - the efficiency (store capacity) increases by 10%, and the cost by 200%? But can this question be looked at from another angle? Plus 3 rounds is plus 30 rounds for 10 magazines, that is, in fact, one more additional magazine. This is plus 300 rounds of ammunition for a combat group of 10 people, that is, in fact, the full ammunition load of one more fighter. Moreover, cartridges equipped in magazines that do not need to be additionally equipped during the battle.

In practice, this means a better chance of winning: the enemy may run out of ammo a little earlier. During large-scale hostilities, these values ​​​​can be averaged, but when solving MTR tasks of particular importance, as a cost-effectiveness criterion, it is necessary to consider not only the performance characteristics (TTX) of the weapon, as such, but also the nature of the tasks solved with its help - hostage rescue, destruction of critical facilities, regime change in a hostile country. And then it becomes clear that you should not save 200% of the cost on improving individual performance characteristics of weapons by 10%.

Remove restrictions


What do we need in order to create promising small arms for professionals?

1. It is necessary to establish a marginal cost for "weapons for professionals". Of course, the machine gun should not cost as much as a tank or a nuclear submarine, but the idea of ​​​​a small-scale "consumer goods" for the MTR must also be abandoned. It is conditionally possible to accept the cost of a promising machine for MTR at the level of high-tech infantry weapons - an anti-tank missile system (ATGM) or a man-portable air defense system (MANPADS), for example, about 100 US dollars.

This does not mean that this is how much the machine itself should cost. This cost should include the results of research and development work (R & D), distributed by the cost of purchased machines. And depending on the volume of purchase, it can be 10/30/50/70% of the total cost of the machine.

Someone will say that such a cost for small arms is prohibitive? But his opinion will definitely change if he or someone close to him is taken hostage, and it will depend on the effectiveness of the actions of the special forces whether the hostages survive or not. And a significant increase in the characteristics of small arms will definitely have a positive impact on the effectiveness of the actions of the MTR.

2. Volumes of purchases - you must initially understand that this is not a weapon for mass armies, but a weapon of professionals, and the number of purchased copies will be limited to batches of thousands - a maximum of tens of thousands of units. During the development process, you should not "drive" about mass production in the style of the Second World War or the Cold War.

3. Proceeding from paragraphs 1 and 2, it is necessary to abandon the manufacture of weapons and cartridges for them under the existing technological processes at the enterprise-developers / manufacturers. The possibility of acquiring the most modern equipment and materials available in our country should act as a limiter to the imagination of designers and developers.

4. It is necessary to adjust the regulatory requirements for weapons for MTRs, which should differ significantly from the requirements for weapons for the bulk of the armed forces, taking into account the fact that weapons for MTRs must show extreme characteristics, while its shelf life and service life will be shorter from -for small production volumes, as a result of faster wear due to intensive operation, as well as the rapid development of technology (in 5–10–15 years, the MTR should already have a new automatic machine).

5. Apply the latest technologies in small arms, including microelectronics, taking into account the principle of "three-loop" outlined in the article From the machine gun to the rifle-information complex.

What kind of shooting systems can be developed taking into account the above provisions?

Old cartridge - new machine


Cartridges of calibers 5,45x39 mm, 5,56x45 mm, 7,62x39 mm and 7,62x51 mm are firmly established in the armies of Russia and NATO countries. Despite numerous attempts, it has not yet been possible to replace them with something fundamentally new. There is a high probability that, even in the event of the appearance of fundamentally new ammunition, the “good old” cartridges of caliber 5,45x39 mm, 5,56x45 mm, 7,62x39 mm and 7,62x51 mm will be used in combat for many decades.

Ultimate assault rifle for special forces
Cartridges of caliber 5,56x45 mm, 5,45x39 mm, 7,62x39 mm and 7,62x51 mm

Based on this, the first type of weapons designed for the MTR should be samples for the existing cartridges 5,45x39 mm, 5,56x45 mm, 7,62x39 mm (optionally 7,62x51 mm).

If we use "old" cartridges, then what can we achieve from a new weapon, won't the result be the same AK, only worth a million rubles?

The use of the latest materials and technological processes will allow for a "redistribution of mass" inside the weapon so that it is used to maximize its performance within the capabilities provided by the selected ammunition.

In practice, this means, for example, that a significant part of the weapon structure can be made of aluminum, titanium and steel alloys by printing on a 3D printer, followed by processing on high-precision milling machines. It can be not only elements of the receiver, stock, but even, for example, an underbarrel grenade launcher. Reinforced units made of high-strength alloys of steel and tungsten can be installed at critical points. The saved mass reserve must be directed to strengthening the barrel.

3D printing makes it possible to obtain products of the most complex configuration. Image 3dtoday.ru

The barrel itself can also be made from stronger grades of steel, which are much more difficult to machine and wear. Or it could be a "sandwich" including a high-strength steel liner, a carbon fiber jacket, heat pipes for cooling, a perforated and profiled aluminum or titanium alloy guard. From the inside, the barrel can be coated with special coatings to improve survivability (carbonitriding of the barrel or something else).

Proof Research carbon composite barrels. Image proofresearch.com

The specific technology at this stage is not important, since the optimal one can be chosen only in the process of developing and testing promising weapons, what is important is what it will give us in the end.

The SSO assault rifle should initially be focused on working with a closed-type silencer / DTK when using all types of cartridges.

The use of high-tech materials will make it possible to reconsider some weapon schemes that increase the accuracy and accuracy of fire, including from unstable positions - schemes with the accumulation of recoil momentum, balanced automation, etc. If using existing "mass" materials and technical processes in such schemes could failure of any elements, for example, gears, then the use of advanced materials and technical processes will allow them to fully reveal their potential without compromising reliability.

Advanced weapon magazines must be compatible with regular weapon magazines chambered for the appropriate cartridge. At the same time, flat or wave springs can be used in regular stores of the MTR assault rifle, which, with the same dimensions, can increase the capacity by 2–5 rounds.

Comparison of conventional and wave springs. Image by smalley.com

The resulting weapon must provide:

- a mass comparable to the mass of existing automata;

- single-shot accuracy at the level of high-precision sniper rifles, which is about 0,5–0,7 MOA (when firing with the appropriate cartridge);

- the highest survivability of the barrel, which makes it possible to use the machine gun as a light machine gun with high-capacity magazines;

- the possibility of more accurate and accurate firing bursts, including from unstable positions;

- 5-15% or more larger capacity of a standard magazine.

In fact, a promising MTR assault rifle should largely combine an assault rifle, a Marksman rifle and a light machine gun. And all this in the weight and size characteristics of a standard machine.

This means that each MTR fighter will have an advantage over the enemy, armed with "mass" weapons, at short and medium range - due to more accurate and accurate bursts of fire, including from unstable positions, and at long range - due to more high accuracy of firing single fire. Each MTR fighter, if necessary, can perform the functions of a sniper, hitting targets at a greater range and with a higher probability than the enemy, or perform the functions of a machine gunner, if there is sufficient ammunition, without risking overheating or incapacitating their main weapon due to conducting intense fire.

Despite the fact that this weapon is being developed for existing cartridges of 5,45x39 mm, 5,56x45 mm, 7,62x39 mm and 7,62x51 mm calibers, this does not mean that new cartridges in the corresponding calibers cannot be developed for it - with polymer or metal-composite sleeve, with bullets of improved ballistics and accuracy, with a core of increased armor penetration, with new gunpowder. We agree in advance that such cartridges will be more expensive. If a regular cartridge is purchased conditionally at 4 rubles per piece, then we are ready for the fact that a special cartridge will cost 1-40, or even 120 rubles apiece (for some options), but the tasks solved with its help justify this.

Thus, a promising MTR assault rifle, when using special cartridges developed for it, will show even better performance characteristics. But even in the absence of special cartridges, it will in many ways surpass the "mass" weapons of a similar class.

New machine - new cartridge


On the basis of the decisions obtained in the course of the work on the previous paragraph, a weapon-cartridge complex for a new ammunition can be created, taking into account the work carried out within the framework of the American NGSW program. This does not mean that it is necessary to follow “follow-after” - a compromise option can be implemented. For example, a new cartridge can be developed on the basis of a previously discussed Soviet cartridge 6x49 mm Or it could be something fundamentally new. Within the framework of this paragraph, both a new promising cartridge and weapons for it must be carried out in existing traditional layouts (no telescopic cartridges and feathered sub-caliber bullets).

Cartridge mm 6x49

A weapon implemented according to the concept of the previous paragraph, but chambered for a new, more powerful cartridge, with better ballistics and armor penetration, will further increase the advantages of the MTR over the enemy, especially in terms of high-precision and machine-gun fire over a long distance. In this case, the best defeat of the enemy in the means of individual armor protection (NIB) will be ensured.

Weapons, both created under the previous paragraph for the existing ammunition of 5,45x39 mm, 5,56x45 mm, 7,62x39 mm and 7,62x51 mm, and weapons created for the new cartridge, conditionally 6x49 mm, can exist in parallel and be used by MTR depending on the problem being solved.

If the new cartridge does not become widespread, but receives a relatively limited distribution, then this can even be considered an advantage in some ways - if an MTR machine falls under a new cartridge into the hands of the enemy, he will not be able to use it - he simply will have nowhere to get cartridges.

Promising Concepts


In the third iteration, a promising automaton for SSO can be created using the most bold technical solutions, materials and layouts - telescopic ammunition, polymers, ceramics, feathered sub-caliber bullets and so on.

Telescopic ammunition and cartridges with feathered sub-caliber bullets

The development of such weapons will take a lot of time, it is possible that in the near future it will not be possible to bring it to mass production at all. But the very development of such weapons is extremely important, because, without trying to jump “over our heads”, we will never go anywhere from the conditional “Kalashnikov assault rifle”.

And yes, even experimental models of promising small arms need to be tested in real combat conditions, of course, not quite “raw” specimens, but those that have reached a certain degree of technical maturity. It is quite possible that it is in the course of real hostilities that promising weapons will turn out to be so convenient and effective that the need for its priority development to the series will become obvious to everyone.

Approximate timing of the creation of machines for MTR

Conclusions


The existing approach to the initial design of small arms for mass armies leads to a dead end. In reality, hostilities are often conducted between highly professional specialists of special operations forces and hastily trained militants of numerous terrorist groups. And now both of them are fighting with small arms of about the same level.

It is necessary to create preferential conditions for the actions of the special operations forces of the Russian Federation by equipping them with small arms and ammunition of increased efficiency, in particular, the main weapon of ground units - the SSO assault rifle.
104 comments
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  1. 0
    10 February 2022 18: 14
    The article is excellent! The author, in my opinion, was in a hurry with the deadlines! hi
  2. -10
    10 February 2022 18: 15
    Mitrofanushka... To:

    On the right are two - TsSN, alpha. find kalash

    Did you read it or understand it? Mitrofanushka
    1. -1
      10 February 2022 18: 32
      what kind of weapon does alpha have in the photo?
      1. -6
        10 February 2022 18: 38
        From the very right? Britos alone, well, a little with a joke. El nine -six and one.
        1. -3
          10 February 2022 18: 39
          Arctic warfare, but with a twist
          1. +8
            10 February 2022 23: 31


            Well, where is she?
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. -9
              11 February 2022 01: 47
              And the butt is not folding and, in general, the kit is so that it will pick up)
              1. +6
                11 February 2022 02: 59
                The stock is foldable, but with a body kit, it’s problematic to “pick” with such a nose. laughing
                1. -7
                  11 February 2022 05: 28
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  Butt something folding

                  Yeah, from Heckler, folding) Retractable even then
        2. +6
          10 February 2022 19: 05
          The pictures are so angled that you can't really see anything.
          L96A1 is like a sniper, not an assault rifle?
          And does Alpha fight?
          this is a counter-terror they always had money and all sorts of liberties
          1. -4
            10 February 2022 19: 55
            Quote: vl903
            it's like a sniper

            Not like
      2. +13
        11 February 2022 02: 55
        All three have the same Kalash, maybe Putin is hiding something under his cloak. laughing
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +9
      10 February 2022 19: 30
      Quote: Cowbra
      Mitrofanushka... To:

      On the right are two - TsSN, alpha. find kalash

      Did you read it or understand it? Mitrofanushka


      And what is the meaning of this stream of consciousness, cow? Warmer, another exacerbation began?
      1. -12
        10 February 2022 19: 57
        You still don't understand? Find Kalash - you said. Did you find it? And why did I call you that - didn’t you understand?
        1. +9
          11 February 2022 02: 39
          Quote: Cowbra
          Find Kalash - you said. Found?

          And what to look for - here it is:


          And the one on the left (next to Putin) has a Kalash with a grenade launcher (a form of gas venting mechanism from an AK)
          And that, in the picture 2-a AK. The third automaton (where only the hand is visible) is not really visible.
          In the lowest picture, a fighter with an AKS.
          1. -13
            11 February 2022 05: 33
            Well done, dopetril)
    4. 0
      11 February 2022 11: 17
      The need for inventions is cunning, which they just didn’t wind up on Kalash ...
  3. -7
    10 February 2022 18: 20
    In general, it’s enchanting that your excellency is still not banned on the VO portal FOR STUPIDITY
  4. +3
    10 February 2022 18: 21
    History in a spiral. Dear "knights" at the exit. And which are few.
  5. +2
    10 February 2022 18: 57
    >"sandwich" including liner

    There seems to be a liner here.
    MOA is minutes of arc?
  6. +1
    10 February 2022 19: 39
    3D printers are so slow that you can immediately forget about any serial weapons. The resource of a steel barrel is at least ten thousand shots, which is quite enough for special forces soldiers. Titanium is ten times more expensive than steel, aluminum and plastic. The wave spring is too short. The 6x49 mm cartridge case cracked along the corrugation during storage.
    1. +6
      10 February 2022 19: 52
      Quote: Operator
      3D printers are so slow that you can immediately forget about any serial weapons.


      Looking what printers. And you can put several of them. The United States, under the NGSW program, is printing mufflers on 3D titanium printers. A series there is not a small planned - tens of thousands.

      Quote: Operator
      The resource of a steel barrel is at least ten thousand shots, which is quite enough for special forces soldiers.


      At what intensity of shooting? With what loss of accuracy and accuracy?

      Quote: Operator
      Titanium is ten times more expensive than steel, aluminum and plastic.


      But he's worth it. I'm just talking about special weapons for professionals.

      And by the way, not so much more expensive. Even the difference in price between grades of steel is a multiple.

      Quote: Operator
      The wave spring is too short.


      Perhaps it should be considered.

      Quote: Operator
      The 6x49 mm cartridge case cracked along the corrugation during storage.


      Perhaps a lack of material or manufacturing process. In any case, this is just an example.
      1. +2
        10 February 2022 20: 27
        3D printers are a very slow thing, they, God forbid, print tens of thousands of mufflers of the simplest design in a few years. And you write about a much more complex mechanism - an assembly of small arms.

        Tens of thousands of shots - with standard accuracy and medium intensity.

        Titanium is not worth it - small arms of a certain caliber must have a certain weight so as not to make one big bruise out of the shooter's shoulder due to increased recoil force. Steel + aluminum + plastic do a pretty good job of achieving the optimal ratio of weight, recoil and cost.

        I have already checked the possibility of using a wave spring as a feeder in a store - it will not work.

        Cracking of the corrugation on the sleeve is an unrecoverable drawback of the corrugation due to the concentration of stresses during manufacture.
        1. -1
          10 February 2022 20: 35
          Quote: Operator
          3D printers are a very slow thing, they, God forbid, print tens of thousands of mufflers of the simplest design in a few years. And you write about a much more complex mechanism - an assembly of small arms.


          Not so mufflers and simple design. And a few years is fine.

          The weapon is not printed in its entirety, but its elements.

          Quote: Operator
          Tens of thousands of shots - with standard accuracy and medium intensity.


          And you need high accuracy with an intensity of fire like a machine gun.

          Quote: Operator
          Titanium is not worth it - small arms of a certain caliber must have a certain weight so as not to make one big bruise out of the shooter's shoulder due to increased recoil force. Steel + aluminum + plastic do a pretty good job of achieving the optimal ratio of weight, recoil and cost.


          So it will have a certain weight - the barrel will become heavier, additional devices will appear.

          Quote: Operator
          I have already checked the possibility of using a wave spring as a feeder in a store - it will not work.


          Maybe I didn't count, so I don't see the point in arguing. The wave spring is just an option. There is another simple solution - flat compression springs, they are slightly more effective than a conventional round wire spring, but perhaps flat section + better material will allow you to add 2-4 cartridges

          Quote: Operator
          Cracking of the corrugation on the sleeve is an unrecoverable drawback of the corrugation due to the concentration of stresses during manufacture.


          The US at NGSW made non-corrugated high-pressure liners.
          1. -2
            10 February 2022 22: 40
            A printed silencer is a can with multiple internal baffles.

            I say - with an average intensity of fire.

            Weight reduction is achieved by much simpler and cheaper solutions - fiberglass, carbon fiber.

            The most efficient feed springs are prismatic.

            The 6,8x51 mm cartridge cases used in the NGSW competition are designed for exactly the same pressure as the standard 5,56x45 mm cartridge cases - 4500 atmospheres. In the first case, hybrid steel-brass sleeves were used in the fig (except for show-offs) - it is not known.
      2. +4
        10 February 2022 20: 28
        Perhaps it should be considered.

        No need, it's been counted for a long time.
    2. -1
      10 February 2022 20: 41
      The resource of a steel barrel is at least ten thousand shots, which is quite enough for special forces soldiers. Titanium is ten times more expensive than steel, aluminum and plastic. The wave spring is too short. The 6x49 mm cartridge case cracked along the corrugation during storage.

      plus.
      but answer for titanium laughing
      no one would refuse a machine gun 300-500 grams lighter
      I think it can be done in a short amount of time
      1. +4
        10 February 2022 21: 43
        do not forget that the weight cannot be reduced indiscriminately - after a certain point, the recoil becomes too large and effective shooting first in bursts and then single becomes impossible
        1. -2
          10 February 2022 21: 47
          after a certain point, the recoil becomes too large and effective shooting first in bursts and then single becomes impossible

          I, as a doctor, will prescribe steel plates for three kopecks, who needs it
          1. 0
            10 February 2022 22: 08
            Quote: Disant
            after a certain point, the recoil becomes too large and effective shooting first in bursts and then single becomes impossible

            I, as a doctor, will prescribe steel plates for three kopecks, who needs it

            Why lighten first and then make heavier?
            ak74 has almost no recoil.
            I didn’t shoot with AKM, but they say it throws it in bursts, but the mass is probably the same? and even AK74 is 600 grams lighter? Should I lighten the AK74?
            1. -1
              10 February 2022 22: 29
              Why lighten first and then make heavier?

              I am also thoughtful, but after all, 300 grams is the mass of 30 rounds of 5.45 (+ wearable pack on the road!), easier aiming and
              is it worth lightening the ak74

              Attach the GP-25, a night light, a bayonet, you are firing, cans for flame extinguishing have now gone to the masses, a front handle, a magazine for 45 cartridges, perhaps a bar for attaching a flashlight - the mass of the machine is still constantly changing
              1. 0
                11 February 2022 06: 53
                Quote: Disant
                Why lighten first and then make heavier?

                I am also thoughtful, but after all, 300 grams is the mass of 30 rounds of 5.45 (+ wearable pack on the road!), easier aiming and
                is it worth lightening the ak74

                Attach the GP-25, a night light, a bayonet, you are firing, cans for flame extinguishing have now gone to the masses, a front handle, a magazine for 45 cartridges, perhaps a bar for attaching a flashlight - the mass of the machine is still constantly changing

                very tempting .... BUT!
                a grenade launcher, a flashlight, a can will worsen the balance while lightening the body.
                the grenade launcher they write gives a wild return and it already has a better weight for 4kg ....
                how useful is it to load the machine? - it only came to my mind that the power bank-battery was heavy, not removable, you can put it in the butt and not on the barrel, you need to recharge the radio, but it’s not clear how the return will be transferred ...
                1. +1
                  11 February 2022 11: 43
                  reducing the weight of weapons is a general trend, and this should be strived for
                  1. 0
                    11 February 2022 12: 47
                    Quote: Disant
                    reducing the weight of weapons is a general trend, and this should be strived for

                    Yes. but this is provided by new cartridges or a different scheme of work.
                    but so far they have not gone far from the 5,56 ... 308 cartridge, nor from the weight of 3-4 kg, and reliable schemes revolve around the m16-AKM
              2. 0
                11 February 2022 11: 23
                they write here you can stick a heavy barrel - accuracy and does not overheat
      2. 0
        10 February 2022 22: 29
        Nobody has canceled the economy yet.
        In addition, titanium is a big problem: it is practically not processed by cutting (it only lifts up on the way), it is three times heavier than carbon fiber at an equal price, the coefficient of sliding friction is almost one, etc.
        1. 0
          10 February 2022 22: 44
          Well, for myself, I would first determine for myself not very loaded parts and not already available carbon fiber - DTK, ramrod, other forged and cast parts - taking your comment on metal processing.
          and there it is possible to trick the cutting machine and cut it in cold or heat, so that there are no scuffs.
          Nobody has canceled the economy yet.

          Well, it's not me - this article suggests dreaming up.
          so the performance of the AK-74M is the best we have
          article about shops is good.
        2. kpd
          +2
          12 February 2022 15: 08
          Add electrochemistry there, in a pair of titanium-steel, very strong corrosion of steel can occur.
    3. 0
      1 May 2022 07: 42
      And why is there a corrugation on the sleeve 6x49? For better obturation?
  7. +12
    10 February 2022 19: 58
    At the same time, flat or wave springs can be used in standard stores of the MTR assault rifle, which, with the same dimensions, can increase the capacity by 2–5 rounds.

    Can not. Flat and wave springs are not used for cyclic loads and such working strokes.
    Or it could be a "sandwich" including a high strength steel liner

    Can not. "Liner" is a passenger vehicle or capillary pen. And in the trunk - a liner.
    In general, reading such articles one involuntarily recalls Professor Preobrazhensky's energetic monologue about attempts to give advice.
    1. SSA
      +2
      11 February 2022 23: 45
      Yes, I'll tell you more, the author, without thinking, wrote this nonsense about + 3 cartridges.

      What's the point in new springs and magazines for 33 rounds, if the main limitation on portable ammunition is WEIGHT! You can even take a RPK-shny store for 45 rounds, even fasten regular tapes, even American disk ones on .... a mountain of cartridges, but how you want to be perverted. It's NOT a matter of magazine capacity, but the weight of ammunition.
  8. +9
    10 February 2022 20: 11
    Another "AyPisyuVEsnik-Cyclik" about subtle matters. People are still spitting from AK-12/15 and AK-Kit and returning to the "antediluvian" Kalash, because it is necessary not to check, but to go. AK-12/15 is not called anything other than "blasters": - and we, dragging the general, are not trained to shoot from blasters. On 12/15 they sawed the dough, on Obvese they made fabulous profits out of thin air, and even the degree of BG was dropped below the plinth for the owners of these devices. On a super-technological topic, they will cut even more, but in the end they will not learn how to shoot ...
    1. Urs
      +2
      10 February 2022 21: 31
      I agree, you can also say about the uniform that each fighter makes for himself, well, like "sewing troops." Unfortunately, I have passed the stage.
  9. +3
    10 February 2022 21: 02
    I agree with something, in particular, that it is stupid to save money on weapons and equipment of Special Forces and Special Forces. Moreover, it is criminal. But there are several counterarguments. First, reliability. This is a very important, in 9 cases out of 10 a decisive factor in the choice of weapons, including special forces. And secondly, the "adequacy" of the weapon. And the problem here is gaining experience in operating weapons in different conditions, primarily in real combat conditions. A weapon that looks great on paper, performs great on the shooting range and on the range, even passes all sorts of environmental and pollution tests, but proves to be completely unacceptable or ineffective in a combat situation. This was proved, in particular, by the experience of the war in Syria. And for that, special forces and special forces are a specialized tool for solving particularly important and responsible tasks, and testing weapons on them, risking a disruption of the operation, or vice versa, sending special forces to perform unusual tasks for the sake of testing machine guns, risking for this the lives of selected fighters, for whose training they went crazy money, to put it mildly stupid.
    Another important factor is the capabilities of the human body. No, even though it is difficult, it is possible to make an assault rifle with the accuracy of a target sniper rifle (suppose even without losing reliability). But the trouble is that such accuracy is unnecessary. Not every commando is able to implement it, and in a real battle only a specially trained sniper in a stationary position, without fire contact with the enemy. In reality, even the 3-4 MOA that an AK-74M or M-4 provides is far superior to even a well-trained shooter's own capabilities. And I'm not talking about ordinary soldiers of the line units - everything is orders of magnitude sadder there. Even in the USMC, famous for shooting training, when conducting tests with shooting in conditions as close as possible to combat, experienced shooters showed 90% hits on a belt target only at a distance (if memory serves) up to 70m.
    That's what it would be for the special forces, as it seems to me, on the topic, is the use of ammunition that is completely interchangeable with standard ammunition, but having much higher characteristics, even to the detriment of manufacturability, and even if it is several times more expensive. These are, for example, precision turned bullets and cartridge cases with a charge with the lowest possible tolerances for sniper cartridges, bullets with a core of heavy metals (tungsten, depleted uranium, up to osmium and iridium, why not, if the target is worthy), bullets with reduced mass, but much more penetrating action in close combat and cartridges with enhanced charge, if they only reduce the resource of the weapon, etc. But the most important thing is to at least make sure that the specialists are not forced to buy the same optics and teploki for their own.
    1. Urs
      +1
      10 February 2022 21: 42
      Some clarification. Do not confuse and drive CH and MTR under one line.
      These are, let's say, divisions that are different in purpose and tasks.
      And if I correctly understood the direction of the article, then it is mainly about weapons for the MTR.
  10. Urs
    -2
    10 February 2022 21: 27
    Thanks for the article hi
    If we discard some inaccuracies and unjustified swings, everything is just fine.
    I believe that this article does not claim to be a scientific work, but quite reasonably and persistently gives direction to the vector of development of the SN weapons.
    I can also say that this is a long overdue problem and, in accordance with the tasks of the MTR, in addition to training the fighter himself, it also requires the compliance of his equipment (which includes weapons and special equipment) with the assigned tasks.
    1. 0
      10 February 2022 21: 30
      And can you clarify the reason why the MTR and units / subdivisions of the SN MO, the troops of the SN of the Russian Guard, are leveled under the same line and require specifically special weapons marked with SN?
      1. Urs
        0
        10 February 2022 21: 35
        No problem.
        All the units you listed have completely different tasks, respectively, and the equipment is different. It’s just that very often there is an opinion that the SN is all the same, that the National Guard, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and military intelligence. This is a completely wrong opinion, and even more so regarding the MTR.
        1. +1
          10 February 2022 21: 42
          Well, in general, and I'm about the same. Each task has its own weapons. Only many, including the author of this opus, do not take into account that, for example, the special intelligence of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Defense, in fact, it is general military weapons that are most convenient if they work precisely according to their specifics. The same special forces of the Russian Guard are completely different, but already created and in service. Alpha is a little closer to the National Guard, but with more subtle specifics, and they have special weapons in their arsenal. Vympel in its own separate topic, but they also have everything you need from the already existing assortment. MTR ... Well, it’s better to keep silent here)
          1. Urs
            0
            10 February 2022 21: 48
            Well, not quite so, "pennant" is the grandfather of the MTR. And with weapons it's not so great.
            How would the choice be like this = "that's all we have, choose for yourself what you need to complete the task" well, or something like this recourse And what we have yes that's just it request
            And so I agree with you good
            1. 0
              10 February 2022 21: 49
              Well, why is Vympel so?)
              1. Urs
                +1
                10 February 2022 21: 53
                Come on, what's there, it's respectful, and grandfather 2 is a "cascade". smile
                Of the best shots, they shackled the MTR
                1. +1
                  10 February 2022 21: 55
                  MTR PR project, no offense to the guys. In fact, this is a completely separate category with very vague specifics and a large set of hemorrhoids because of this. But there are more DDs, that's why they endure.
  11. 0
    10 February 2022 21: 49
    what to talk about if the pilots in the NAZ instead of a collapsible microwave were stuck with ppk20. they would have put ppsh.
    1. Urs
      +1
      10 February 2022 21: 55
      Well, you are a little off topic. And even earlier there was only one APS.
      1. 0
        10 February 2022 22: 01
        Quote: Urs
        Well, you are a little off topic. And even earlier there was only one APS.

        absolutely on topic: an expensive specialist, an expensive effective weapon.
        APS was out of order. nominally it was either an inflatable boat or AK74U
        instead of giving the pilot a weapon that gives a chance to survive at least in some situations, he was given an increased APS but just as useless.
        But a pilot is much more expensive than a commando ....
        1. SSA
          +1
          11 February 2022 23: 32
          A pilot can only survive if he is not found. And in order to survive through firepower, he then needs to be given a six-barreled rapid-fire cannon.
    2. SSA
      +1
      11 February 2022 23: 50
      You continue to bend this phantasmagoria. Have you seen the pilots at least once? Well, what microwave? Is that a sniper for you? Well, why would a person who, in a fixed position, perfects the control of an aircraft, need to learn and shoot from a sniper rifle?
      1. 0
        12 February 2022 12: 02
        1. I didn’t see pilots, I am a civilian.
        2. you read the text, but do not perceive it
        3. yes, the best thing is that the pilot would not be found, then he can surrender, maybe he is seriously injured. but if he decides to try, give him the tools to survive. Including a suitable weapon.
        3. The firepower of the chase is always greater - they have more BC, there are a lot of AKs and PCs, so a six-barrel gun is not an option. BC is limited for the pilot. Yes, and the weight needs less - he runs away.
        4. the pilot does not need to be a sniper and shoot at 1,5 km
        he needs to effectively keep the chase beyond her effective fire - 400m ... 600m
        5. microwave here is an expensive and effective AK. since the pilot needs 1 cartridge 1 target and he needs to shoot down the greyhound of the chase in order to wait for the helicopter.
        6 Americans, whatever one may say, are the most downed pilots in the world. they passed pistols, wads of money, submachine guns, small guns and now they are laying down a collapsible m4 .... probably they are stupid Americans and we will shower them with hats?
        7. The submachine gun is suitable only in a very limited number of situations and does not differ much in efficiency from the APS. the cartridge is weak, you can’t take a lot of cartridges.
        8.here people gave a bunch of examples of situations of pp against machine guns and machine guns of rifles. from the Second World War to Syria ... the PP has no chance ...
  12. -1
    10 February 2022 22: 02
    Good system analysis.
    As for timing, it's an interesting question.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. +6
    10 February 2022 22: 48
    What limits the power, range of any weapon? Ammunition. It is impossible to get ballistics, armor penetration and other indicators from a new rifle if it is made for old ammunition. Even the barrel cannot be extended indefinitely. So you need to make a new ammunition. Which one then? The new Sigovsky .277 Fury (aka 6.8x51), for example, has a lot of nuances. Powerful, flat, precise. It seems that it can be used with magazines and bolts designed for 7.62x51 NATO. It seems to be. Only here the pressure of .277 Fury is 550mPa, and for 7.62x51-415.00 MPa, that is, neither SCAR-H, nor M14, nor FAL, nor G3, nor VEPR 7.62x51 will corny withstand loads. Moreover, a high-velocity bullet will wear barrels very well. Moreover, this technology requires new (not cheap) gunpowder. I mean, a cartridge - they did it, it turned out to be very expensive, now you need to make rifles and barrels for it to withstand it all (and this is EVEN more expensive), moreover, you need to put muzzle brakes / silencers on such rifles (you can’t deceive physics), and it turns out that the new full-size cartridge rests on the limitations of modern technology, even carbon fiber barrels, although it turns out to be 5-10 times stronger (and what for), they wear out no worse than steel, chrome-plated ones. They heat up more slowly, but they also cool more slowly.
    The old 6.5 Creedmoore (6.5x51) is less powerful than the 6.8x51, pressure is only 430 MP, and can be easily used in 7.62x51 caliber rifles with a simple barrel change. But he, too, due to the high speed of the bullet, wears out trunks. The cartridge itself is not expensive in production, it does not require new gunpowder, nor new technologies for manufacturing cartridge cases, BUT, due to the high speed of the bullet, it wears out the barrels, and this is also an economy. On tests of two identical barrels, 6.5 credmoor caused barrel erosion after 2000 shots, 7.62x51 - after 5000. Also the economy. So - a technological impasse. What's the way out?

    It seems to me that modern intermediate ammunition: 5.45x39, 7,62x39, 300 Blackout, 5.56x45 NATO have exhausted themselves. Something more powerful is needed, but so that it does not cost the country a pretty penny. This means that the production costs of both ammunition and weapons should not rise much higher than the increase in efficiency. There are 3 more intermediate cartridges in the USA: 6.5 Grendel (The Serbs have something VERY similar in armament), 6.8 TPC (6.8x43), and 224 Valkyrie, the same 6.8x43 but for 5.7 caliber. It seems to me that something like 6.8x43 TPC would be the most acceptable. It significantly exceeds in power both 7.62x39, and 6.5 grendel, and 5.56 and 5.45. That is, you need a slightly more powerful cartridge than 6.8 TPC, with a working pressure of 400-450MPA
    which will not require any super new technologies in the manufacture of both the cartridge itself and in the manufacture of weapons. Which will be significantly more powerful than the existing intermediate ammunition, approaching the ballistics and energy of 7.62x51, at a smaller size, especially due to the bullet with a high ballistic coefficient.

    As the creator of the magnificent 6.5 grendel said "Start Slow, finish fast" that is, with a low initial bullet speed, ensure a high bullet speed at the end of the trajectory due to the high ballistic coefficient.
    1. 0
      April 10 2022 17: 20
      ...thanks to the high ballistic coefficient.

      If I understand correctly, on the contrary, a low coefficient is needed.
  15. +1
    11 February 2022 00: 09
    As far as I remember, the experience of serial production of high-quality cartridges (for the sport of high achievements) in the USSR was in preparation for the games of the Moscow Olympics-1980.
    It got to the point that special equipment counted an equal number of powder grains into the sleeve of each cartridge (somewhere I had a newspaper note from those times describing the details of development and manufacture).
    The dimensions and weight of all bullets in each batch of cartridges were almost identical.
    This, the stability of all operational parameters of cartridges, in many respects ensures the accuracy of fire while other factors remain unchanged.
    After all the fundamental principle of modern weapons!
    With cartridges from a good batch, you can always achieve stable accuracy indicators even from the nastiest rifle! Yes
    Regarding the "Kalash" - the basis of its reliability and the general concept of the "ideology of construction", as well as the advantages and disadvantages of the design itself, have not been a "military secret" for a long time and are popularly described in detail in open sources!
    What the "creators" of its degraded likeness (AK-12/15) "created" with the basic design of the AK is akin to what was "created" in the "holy 90s" with a Margolin pistol (ugly "castrated" by Yarygin in "Margo-Margosh" ), alas! request
    I agree with the Author of the Article that the saved weight can be used to thicken the walls of the barrel and that now, in the development of the conceptual ideas of Sudayev, Kalashnikov, Dragunov and with a reasonable, expedient use of new materials and high-performance production processes, not at such high costs (if you know what and how to do), it is quite possible to create a truly advanced model of small arms (for manufacturing it in large batches, including in wartime conditions, without a significant decrease in productivity and deterioration in the operational properties of the finished product, 3D printers, wave springs ,... it will NOT be required for this, and there is no need to refuse stamping - no need to overcomplicate the mechanism just for the sake of "fashion trends", design it easier - do not be lazy to think, and "for a fool" too! Yes ), which satisfies the modern conditions of combat by highly mobile infantry units.
    The ways to such a model (in addition to the urgent improvement in the quality of manufactured cartridges) are now completely obvious - "lie on the surface", and their embodiment "in metal", of course, largely depends on the experience and "ideology", knowledge and skills of specific gunsmith designers - as Professor Raushenbach wrote in "Technique-Youth": "The machine is a human child!". wink
    PS By the way, what was said in the Article can also be attributed to automatic weapons for military aviation pilots (I have already written about this more than once in my comments on the topic, and even here I see similar statements of my like-minded people). IMHO
    1. +2
      11 February 2022 11: 23
      Until now, a similar method is used when equipping cartridges on their own, grain by grain ... The results are incomparable with a gross cartridge .. Believe me
      1. +1
        11 February 2022 16: 36
        Quote: AlexFly
        Until now, a similar method is used when equipping cartridges on their own, grain by grain ... The results are incomparable with a gross cartridge .. Believe me

        hi That's right!
        And in the imported book on benchrest - "On Rifle Accuracy" (I quote the name from memory - I read it a long time ago, it was available on the Web in Russian) there are many more all sorts of subtle tricks, manipulations with self-loading cartridges and weapons ...
        Recommend. Yes
  16. +5
    11 February 2022 00: 21
    Dear author, I'm sorry, but the article is NOTHING. Nothing conceptually. NEVER automatic / self-loading can be compared exactly with a bolt. What don't you do, physics, sir. Same thing with construction. There is a Kalashoid with a long stroke of the gas piston and there is an AR-shaped brainchild of Stoner. One has reliability, the other has accuracy. Well, a compromise is a short piston stroke for a heckler. What else do you want to come up with? Trunks. Again, everything is known. Cut stainless is the most accurate, chrome is the most durable, carbonitrated black is a compromise. I don’t even want to start a conversation about carbon fiber, show-off for the rich.
    And as you have already correctly pointed out, there are laws of physics. Gunpowder burning rates, limiting pressures, ballistics. If they come up with a mini-nuclear reactor, then you can also bridge the gauss gun in a wearable version. Then it will make sense to discuss the prospects.
    1. +1
      11 February 2022 03: 07
      Quote: KSVK
      Well, a compromise is a short piston stroke for a heckler.
      and at SVD
  17. +1
    11 February 2022 01: 01
    I don't agree with the author at all. The same fur seals use the m4 sopmod block2, in fact, a slightly improved m4. Their elite (devgru) uses xk416, like the military elite - Delta, also xk416. They chose the machine according to the criterion of maximum reliability when using standard ammunition. The price of xk416 is, of course, 3.5 times higher than m4 and 2.5 times higher than m4 sopmod 2, but this is justified not by the fantastic performance of the machine, but by its reliability and non-failure operation while maintaining the usual m4 ergonomics. The accumulated skill and reliability are decided in the American MTR. I think the same topic is with our MTRs - they select the best samples from serial ones, they make ergonomics for themselves and do not worry about telescopic cartridges. And about firing in bursts, this is generally stupidity - so what silencers, secrecy, and accuracy prefer them that ours. These three characteristics relate very well to automatic fire. The scalpel does not need a machine gun mode, for this each squad has a machine gunner. And the fact that they now took the zigzauer to try is a few. The same devgru and deltas are no more than 10% of the seals and special force. Once again - special forces prefer reliability and are ready to pay for this.
    1. -2
      16 February 2022 19: 03
      Hmm, yes, they’re only shooting in a burst, the suppressive fire has not yet been canceled. Yes, and they don’t take away the machine guns that they gave them and use them, but they often change them for sure, after all, they shot a lot.
  18. +2
    11 February 2022 08: 21
    Quote: vl903
    ak74 has almost no recoil

    Have you read about it on the Internet???
    1. 0
      11 February 2022 11: 02
      Quote: V.A. Sh.
      Quote: vl903
      ak74 has almost no recoil

      Have you read about it on the Internet???

      yes. regarding AKM.
      what in essence? is there a connection between mass and stability when shooting?
      is it possible to reduce the mass thoughtlessly?
    2. +2
      11 February 2022 11: 25
      Well, if you compare it with .308, then no ..
  19. +4
    11 February 2022 08: 23
    Quote: Disant
    the article invites to fantasize

    About adding three rounds to the store - a masterpiece!
    On the scale of the armed forces, consider itself another army corps formed! :)
    Fiercely plus!
  20. 0
    11 February 2022 09: 09
    In fact, a promising MTR assault rifle should largely combine an assault rifle, a Marksman rifle and a light machine gun. And all this in the weight and size characteristics of a standard machine.

    What for? If special forces should not enter into direct contact with the enemy. The task of the MTR is reconnaissance, target designation and sabotage using mainly explosive devices.
    It is conditionally possible to accept the cost of a promising machine for MTR at the level of high-tech infantry weapons - an anti-tank missile system (ATGM) or a man-portable air defense system (MANPADS), for example, about 100 US dollars.

    Author, try to find a commando and ask him a simple question: what do you prefer, my dear friend - a new machine gun for 100K killed American raccoons or ammunition for the same money, but with AK-74M? I think the answer will surprise you. Before you form your "Wishlist" (TTX) for weapons, you need to look at the tactics of the MTR.
    It is necessary to create preferential conditions for the actions of the special operations forces of the Russian Federation by equipping them with small arms and ammunition of increased efficiency, in particular, the main weapon of ground units - the SSO assault rifle.

    If you look not at cartoons and action movies, it will become obvious that historically, the characteristics of weapons for the MTR have improved in two main areas: weight reduction and unmasking shot factors.
    1. -2
      16 February 2022 19: 06
      Well, of course, the MTR should not enter the battle, it is constantly fighting on the front line.
  21. +1
    11 February 2022 11: 21
    The 7,62x39 cartridge is outdated, rather weak. At one time, the Czechs offered within the framework of the WD 7,62x45, as more powerful and promising (by the way, it may be suitable for hunting) Moscow banned ..
  22. 0
    11 February 2022 11: 38
    Weapons, both created under the previous paragraph for the existing ammunition of 5,45x39 mm, 5,56x45 mm, 7,62x39 mm and 7,62x51 mm, and weapons created for the new cartridge, conditionally 6x49 mm, can exist in parallel and be used by MTR depending on the problem being solved.

    For MTR, at least a caliber of 7,62 mm is needed to reduce the speed of the bullet and, accordingly, better work of the silencer. That is why, along with the AK-12, the AK-15 was made.
    1. SSA
      0
      11 February 2022 23: 37
      7,62 - greater steepness of the trajectory, worse accuracy. What's the job of a muffler? If a special US cartridge is generally used to operate the silencer in 7,62
      1. 0
        13 February 2022 13: 49
        Quote: SSA
        7,62 - greater steepness of the trajectory, worse accuracy. What's the job of a muffler? If a special US cartridge is generally used to operate the silencer in 7,62

        apparently it meant that the US for 5,45 is not produced - the mass of the bullet is small
  23. -1
    11 February 2022 11: 58
    In fact, a promising MTR assault rifle should largely combine an assault rifle, a Marksman rifle and a light machine gun. And all this in the weight and size characteristics of a standard machine.


    You know, this comrade would approve.

    1. 0
      11 February 2022 16: 41
      In general, everyone in the world is striving for this. so far it's bad
  24. +2
    11 February 2022 14: 20
    My friend, you are so funny, of course, I quote: “We agree in advance that such cartridges will be more expensive. then 4 rubles apiece (for some options), but the tasks solved with its help justify it. Who will pay for the banquet? and I also quote "And we need high accuracy with an intensity of fire like that of a machine gun." who will carry the ammunition? again, what kind of calculation of only one cartridge, and even a size of 1x40, should a fighter drag in order to shoot "from a machine gun like a machine gun"? the state will simply go bankrupt on such arrows, or are you ready to fight and buy cartridges for yourself at 120 rubles apiece? where can the state find such wise men so that they pay for wars from their wallets.
    1. 0
      11 February 2022 16: 39
      Quote: Al.Ti
      My friend, you are so funny, of course, I quote: “We agree in advance that such cartridges will be more expensive. then 4 rubles apiece (for some options), but the tasks solved with its help justify it. Who will pay for the banquet? and I also quote "And we need high accuracy with an intensity of fire like that of a machine gun." who will carry the ammunition? again, what kind of calculation of only one cartridge, and even a size of 1x40, should a fighter drag in order to shoot "from a machine gun like a machine gun"? the state will simply go bankrupt on such arrows, or are you ready to fight and buy cartridges for yourself at 120 rubles apiece? where can the state find such wise men so that they pay for wars from their wallets.

      automatic firing in a pinch.
      any war is a commercial enterprise in the end. and the one who saves mindlessly on instruments eventually goes bankrupt.
      for special forces 400r per cartridge is more profitable than disrupted operations and lost specialists
      1. 0
        16 February 2022 19: 10
        Did you hear the suppressive fire? Exactly, why make such expensive cartridges if you can immediately bang from a grenade launcher.
        1. -1
          16 February 2022 21: 50
          Quote: tohoto
          Did you hear the suppressive fire? Exactly, why make such expensive cartridges if you can immediately bang from a grenade launcher.

          suppressive fire, if this is not an extreme case, then this is a machine gun and a lot of BC. Or general infantry combat and a lot of BC in the trenches, for example.
          this is not for a special forces assault rifle. But if necessary, you can use ordinary cheap regular cartridges as much as you want. what the author says.
          1. 0
            17 February 2022 07: 52
            The special forces, as it were, fight a lot, if anything, for him this is not an extreme case. You can watch a bunch of spetsnaz videos from the FSB and MTR, and they shoot a lot here and there.
            1. -1
              17 February 2022 08: 03
              Quote: tohoto
              The special forces, as it were, fight a lot, if anything, for him this is not an extreme case. You can watch a bunch of spetsnaz videos from the FSB and MTR, and they shoot a lot here and there.

              therefore, the author offers a cartridge in the same form factor as the regular army one, if I understand correctly.
  25. +1
    11 February 2022 22: 05
    I would not make a new caliber, but released a rifle 7.62 with new powders and a bullet with improved ballistic characteristics. Then the new weapon will be able, if necessary, to shoot with old cartridges (yes, not as accurately as with new ones, but still) and the body armor will not help the enemy much. And the efforts saved on changing the caliber would be directed to improving the quality and stability of the characteristics of the cartridges (otherwise everything is sad with this).
  26. 0
    12 February 2022 08: 18
    The author has already reached small arms. And as always, a stream of consciousness...
  27. +1
    12 February 2022 11: 38
    The author is right, but he does not understand anything) Military production belongs to the capitalists, who are at the same time our power. Therefore, the production of such weapons that he wants is connected with the usual capitalist fork. Namely:
    Produced weapons should cost as little as possible, and at the same time be sold as expensive as possible. So that the capitalist's money cushion grows at least at the same pace as that of other capitalists. As soon as income growth declines, the capitalist is destroyed by his partners and competitors. Well, this is how the social system works.
    Crappy stamping, with a real cost of about a thousand rubles, which is sold to the budget for 50-70 thousand, this is an ideal. Around the producers of this good, there are a lot of schemes from which the entire government is fed.
    An attempt to start real R&D (not paper, as it is now, when the state calmly unfastens billions for meaningless texts, such as this is the "research results") of arming production equipment to implement real research results (now all the equipment of the arms industry is Soviet, with the exception of a few dozen American machining centers and Lobaev's American equipment, that is, almost everything is a freebie) will cause a landslide drop in profits. It's impossible.
    We will have to find somewhere funds to pay for the repair of the plumbing of the villa in Malta, as well as to reduce the funding of CIA operations (remember, Deripaska ingenuously told how he gave tens of millions to the CIA officers who said that they needed another operation?) and the rest are very necessary the needs for which our elite burns through our GDP. Nobody will go for it. No way, never.
    The author is right, but very naive ...
    1. 0
      12 February 2022 16: 40
      The prices of things (including weapons) in money, this is a floating coordinate system and therefore, in principle, cannot be objective, and then if, for example, there is a standard meter and kilogram, then there is no standard ruble or dollar in nature. But it also happens that the ruble cannot be compared with the ruble, hence cheap does not mean obviously bad.
      As for whether professionals need some kind of special expensive weapon, you need to keep in mind that if small arms are not assigned to perform tasks that are not characteristic of it, then it will not need exclusive bells and whistles, and if there are no bells and whistles, then the price will be moderate
      1. 0
        12 February 2022 17: 11
        I understood little of the abstract reasoning that was not attached to anything. Because the accounts to which budget money is transferred are a very specific thing, and they only float from the tax.
        As for the second part - are you trying to convey in your usual style that the special forces do not need good weapons, will they get by with serial caramultuks?
        1. 0
          12 February 2022 18: 55
          The author of the article devoted a whole paragraph to prices, and the price indicator is not the best. to compare weapons.
          In terms of weapons for special forces, it must meet the task, that is, it can be both ordinary serial and special, depending on the circumstances. and here is the phrase "small arms and ammunition of increased efficiency, in particular, the main weapon of ground units - the MTR submachine gun." means that "numerous militants" can be fought with a special special machine gun...? It seems to me wrong to divide weapons into two grades for everyone, and for special forces it is necessary to improve the quality of all serial weapons, and the special forces themselves will choose what they need.
          1. 0
            12 February 2022 20: 17
            Yep, that makes more sense, thanks. On the first one, you are right, of course, the price factor is not so important, especially with modern pricing.
            But on the second ... And what, in fact, will our special forces "choose" themselves? As the author quite rightly points out, apart from AK 12, there is nothing to choose in this class. You can, of course, order foreigners, but in modern conditions, as for the choice, we won’t “choose it ourselves”, but “work with what you managed to snatch”.
            At the same time (we will have to touch on the topic of money), the training of special forces costs millions and millions for each fighter, and in many respects because he has to master a large number of types of various weapons. Which is spent during training like napkins, just have time to throw out the bent, crumpled, with completely shot trunks.
            And what, buy all the trunks of the world? Because it is generally unknown which ones will have to be applied, one is under sanctions, the second is no longer supplied, the third has ceased to be produced ... But there is no good one of its own)
            1. 0
              13 February 2022 15: 08
              Speaking of special forces, as you know, he often carries all his equipment on himself, and therefore whether it is necessary to re-equip it with weapons of increased caliber is a moot point, but to select the best from the mass of serial samples (although it is the same, it has differences, bearing balls from the same series, and they have to be sorted using a caliper) it is quite affordable, but to make it tuned right at the factory, or to make a serial sample for a specific fighter, like a piece gun to order.
              1. 0
                13 February 2022 17: 21
                I didn't quite get it. The author is trying to prove that you are wrong. And along with you, the army authorities are also wrong that special forces need advanced weapons. He writes about it quite clearly. You think it's not. Explain how valuable your opinion is if you do not prove anything?
                You are simply asserting. do not give arguments, do not build a chain of evidence, just an opinion and nothing more. Relying on nothing. For some reason it seemed to me that there was no voting here, that if you speak out, then you need to somehow argue ...
  28. 0
    13 February 2022 17: 35
    The cost of the main weapon of the US Army - the M-4 carbine, is about 800-1500 US dollars, that is, approximately the same or slightly more expensive than the cost of Russian weapons (we are talking only about the cost of a rifle, without the cost of additional accessories). The cost of the German rifle Heckler & Koch G36 is even less - about 600 euros or about 60 thousand rubles.

    Well, the current prices for the M4 assault rifle under American military contracts are about $650-700 "per gun" (prooflink - https://web.archive.org/web/20120624094006/http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012 /04/20/us-army-places-order-for-24000-m4-carbines-with-remington/ ).
    Can I find out where the information about 600 dollars for the G-36 comes from? "Heckler-Koch" in general is not famous for the cheapness of its products and has never been famous.
    The civilian version of the SIG Sauer NGSW-R MCX Spear, that is, the rifle actually being developed under the NGSW program, has been announced at a price of $7.

    The "gold price" may incidentally raise the same question that "buried" the prospects of the Heckler-Koch 416 as the "single main infantry rifle" Voor. US forces. Because the weapon by no means showed such a noticeable superiority over the M4A1 assault rifles in any way to justify the fivefold difference in price (and no, I don’t need to talk about the IAR based on the 416th M27 - the latter is quite heavily modified and actually represents .. an analogue of the domestic RPK (with a "machine-gun" type barrel, providing the possibility of more intense fire). As such, by the way, it was conceived, and in the arsenal of the infantry units of the US Marine Corps it simultaneously replaces both the M4 assault rifles and the M249 light machine guns. Koch also managed to drop the price to about $1500 "per gun".)
    single-shot accuracy at the level of high-precision sniper rifles, which is about 0,5–0,7 MOA (when firing with the appropriate cartridge);

    The accuracy of a single fire at the level of high-precision sniper "bolts" on a semi-automatic rifle, alas, is unrealistic in principle.
    1. 0
      13 February 2022 18: 30
      Quote: Mikhail3
      I didn't quite get it. The author is trying to prove that you are wrong. And along with you, the army authorities are also wrong that special forces need advanced weapons. He writes about it quite clearly. You think it's not. Explain how valuable your opinion is if you do not prove anything?
      You are simply asserting. do not give arguments, do not build a chain of evidence, just an opinion and nothing more. Relying on nothing. For some reason it seemed to me that there was no voting here, that if you speak out, then you need to somehow argue ...

      It must be assumed that when planning a special operation, the issue of weapons is resolved, if the operations are different, then the weapons will have differences, as well as the composition of the group may change. and the author writes about the need for special forces to adopt a particularly effective universal machine gun, of course it would be nice, but in everyday life everything universal usually loses to a highly specialized one and then professionals believe that each operation requires its own tool
  29. -2
    16 February 2022 18: 59
    600 bucks is a rifle for the tan army, seriously?
  30. 0
    4 March 2022 19: 55
    Good theoretical analysis.
    It has nothing to do with practice.
    The MTR fighter will be able to complete the task with any weapon. Including trophies.
    This is by the way.
    Further. In ordinary units of the MTR (we don’t take elite ones yet), the weapons are full-time - the assortment slightly exceeds the usual army gun parks. And the lads make do with what they have.
    A slight difference from regular units is the possibility of customization. I don’t know how it is now, but in the 90s and early 2000s, the entire body kit was bought at my own expense. This is where the issue of money came into play. And how much did a regular sample cost - it was deep on the drum.
    The second difference is that for each specific task, the assortment is taken individually: either the commander determines what to take for whom, or at his own discretion.
    About the elite ones - their weapons may differ from everything that you have seen so far. These may be samples of a limited series of domestic production. There may be imported weapons (especially bolts). Well, about combat swimmers - what they take with them - only they themselves know. And not necessarily SPP-1 / APS / ADS.

    Yes, and in the first photo in the "Models and prices" section, the last sample is not A-545 (now officially called "5,45-mm automatic Kord (index 6P67)"), and AEK-971.
  31. IVZ
    +1
    April 2 2022 21: 03
    During attempts to advance the AEK-919K "Kashtan" software, they talked with employees of the FSO, GRU special forces, etc. According to them, they have the opportunity to purchase and use any weapon and equipment. At the same time, they buy almost everything in the amount of several samples, test it, and if they decide that it can be useful, they get the amount they need. Another thing is that AK or M4 are samples proven by many years of practice and therefore enjoy the greatest confidence of personnel. Cartridge 6x49 (BC3), as well as heh BCC, BC6. Had business with them. There is no tenacity of the barrel (even a polygonal one), the phenomenon of capillarity in this caliber has not gone away, the pressure is horse, and therefore the barrel and the locking unit are rather big and massive. 3D printing and powder met. do not provide parts with the strength inherent in traditional technologies. For now anyway. Leaf springs are less reliable - they are trying to replace them with cylindrical ones in the triggers of revolvers. And so, almost all the technical solutions proposed by the respected author are quite feasible, many of them have been tested, but they need to be worked out and run in, and this is not fast.
    1. +1
      April 3 2022 23: 37
      It's not really clear that this is a weapon of the last century. If the "Steam Locomotive" is printed on a 3D printer, it still works on wood and steam. laughing
      1. IVZ
        0
        April 4 2022 21: 59
        It doesn't exist at all yet. And locomotives - they are.
  32. 0
    April 6 2022 18: 37
    the author seems to be a theoretician, the price of ak74m was 3-4 times cheaper than the same saiga at the time of the ona. The analogies are easy to follow.