The Ministry of Defense announced the delivery of modernized BMP-1AM "Basurmanin" to the troops

A large batch of modernized BMP-1AM infantry fighting vehicles will go into service with motorized rifle units of one of the combined arms armies of the Eastern Military District. This was reported by the press service of the Ministry of Defense.

The upgraded BMP-1AM "Basurmanin" will go into service with the motorized rifle unit stationed in the Jewish Autonomous Region in the first half of February. The number of cars is not reported, but it is noted that the batch will be large. In the subdivisions, the new infantry fighting vehicles will replace the already obsolete BMP-1s, which are currently in service with motorized riflemen.

As emphasized in the press service, the BMP-1AM version is considered one of the best options for upgrading the BMP-1. The BMP-1AM was first shown in 2018. In the same year, Uralvagonzavod announced the development of a large-scale modernization program for the existing BMP-1 fleet to the BMP-1AM level. According to open sources, the units and formations of the Russian army have several hundred BMP-1s, and several thousand more are in storage.

In the West, the BMP-1AM was called the "budget replacement" for the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle. The outdated 73-mm gun "Thunder", which no longer meets modern requirements for combating NATO military equipment, is being replaced by new weapons.

During the modernization of the BMP-1 to the version of the BMP-1AM "Basurmanin", the vehicle receives a unified fighting compartment from the BTR-82A with a 30-mm 2A72 automatic cannon, a 7,62-mm PKTM machine gun. The BMP is equipped with a fire control system with a combined all-day anti-aircraft sight TKN-4GA-01, a two-plane weapon stabilizer and anti-tank guided weapons ATGM 9K115 "Metis". In addition, the UTD-20S1 engine and torsion shafts of increased energy intensity are installed on the new BMP.

Comments

[ancestors from Don]

I would like to remind you that Russia is in fact a secular, but at the same time a multi-confessional state, and this is enshrined in Art. 14 of the Constitution. Those who come up with such names make a split, because "basurman" literally sounds like a non-Christian faith.

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Ancestors from the Don

I would like to remind you that Russia is in fact a secular, but at the same time a multi-confessional state, and this is enshrined in Art. 14 of the Constitution. Those who come up with such names make a split, because "basurman" literally sounds like a non-Christian faith.

This name does not bring any split.

[El Chuvachino]

As for the split, I agree, but the fact that the name is unsuccessful, I think, the majority will agree. Couldn't there have been a better, better-sounding name?

[IL-18]

On the one hand, dissonant and incorrect. On the other hand, if the Muslim warriors received their own common name, then the Russian army got a very serious opponent of "the times of the Ochakovskys and the conquest of the Crimea." Even in "Borodino": "... and the infidels retreated, then we began to count the wounds, count the comrades." Those. respect for a strong and stubborn warrior who practices Islam, even the Napoleonites were compared with them.
Although, I would not give such a name. It is not good to name something according to nationality or religion.

[Alexfly]

Basurmanin means GENTIER (foreigner), i.e. someone of another faith .... There is NO emphasis on a particular faith .. It can be a pagan ..

[ancestors from Don]

Read Wikipedia, Dahl's and Ozhegov's dictionaries, and don't come up with your own interpretations.

[Alexfly]

I have already read it, by the way, there is no other explanation ... a Muslim is also a non-believer, like a pagan ..

[Per se.]

Quote: AlexFly

he is also a non-believer, like a pagan ..

We read the article, if we balk at the topic and even make fun of it.

The upgraded BMP-1AM "Basurmanin" will go into service with the motorized rifle unit stationed in Jewish autonomous region, in the first half of February.

Here, only, the joke is that there are no Jews in the Jewish Autonomous Region. For the rest, well, they called the machine gun "Pecheneg", why is "Basurmanin" more offensive?

[Sergej1972]

There is a little.) According to 2010 data, 1600 people out of 160 thousand of the total population. That is, one percent.) Although, indeed, the question is what is the meaning of the existence of autonomy. I still understand HMAO. There are also Khanty and Mansi one and a half percent of the population, 30 thousand out of 1 million 200 thousand of the total population of the district. But the Khanty and Mansi have been living there since time immemorial.
Although, as far as I know, the Russian majority of the population opposes the liquidation of the JAO as a subject of the Russian Federation and the transformation into one or more municipalities. People are afraid that in this case it will become a backwater of the Khabarovsk Territory, to which the hands of the authorities will not reach. It seems to me that the best compromise option is to return to the Khabarovsk Territory, but with the status of a subject of the federation as an autonomous region or an autonomous district. An acceptable option, but a little worse, is to enter the region as a territory with a special status, but without maintaining the status of a subject of the federation, following the example of the Evenki municipal district of the Krasnoyarsk Territory. Although in all cases the question will arise - why autonomy or a special status of the Russian territory in terms of the national composition, in which the percentage of the Russian population is one of the highest in the Russian Federation.) There is another option for transforming it into a regular region. But it will be too small in terms of population by all-Russian standards and too small in terms of territory by Siberian-Far Eastern standards.
The same peculiar subject of Khakassia. 12% of the Khakass clearly cannot dominate the republic. Only in one of the districts of the republic, Khakasses make up slightly more than 50% of the population. The situation is similar in Karelia. And it would seem that to abolish the Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug, the Jewish Autonomous Region, the republics of Khakassia and Karelia, and even a few other subjects means to offend the peoples by whose name they are named and who (with the exception of the Jews) are indigenous to this territory. On the other hand, these republics and autonomies are of little use to these ethnic groups.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Sergej1972

There is a little.) According to 2010 data, 1600 people out of 160 thousand of the total population. That is one percent.)

The percentage is due to the reasons for the creation of the JAO. (Joke, if anything)
By a decree of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, the Jewish Autonomous Region was created. And Jewish settlers were sent there en masse to create collective farms there and develop the territory. A month after the first settlers were sent to the Central Committee, a radiogram came from there. content: "We got there normally period Collective farms created period Send collective farmers period"

[Alexfly]

Yes, everything is very simple, Stalin, in order not to let the Jewish population of the USSR go to the promised land, decided to arrange a paradise, God knows where .. He mocked, or something, or was pinned.? There is no way to organize this joy in Odessa, so there would be no such horror in Ukraine now .. The helmsman joked incorrectly, incorrectly, with a mockery ..

[Grits]

Quote: Sergej1972

And it would seem that to abolish the Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug, the Jewish Autonomous Region, the republics of Khakassia and Karelia, and even a few other subjects means to offend the peoples by whose name they are named and who (with the exception of the Jews) are indigenous to this territory.

Many states in the US are named after Indian tribes. Interestingly, the Indians who do not live there are very offended by this?

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Sergej1972

the question is what is the meaning of the existence of autonomy.

This is a spare Israel, just in case.

[AllXVahhaB]

Quote: Paranoid50

This is a spare Israel, just in case

Not spare, but new!

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Sergej1972

People are afraid that in this case it will become a backwater of the Khabarovsk Territory, to which the hands of the authorities will not reach.

Rename Jewish autonomous region
В Birobidzhanskaya region (as an example, Kursk, Kaliningrad ... regions named after cities of regional centers)

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Moreover, there is still a "Polovets" in the reserve, and only then all sorts of different "Ethiop" or "Eskimo" will be used.

[AllXVahhaB]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

"Ethiopian" or "Eskimo"

Eskimo is not ours. We will have a Samoyed!

[UA3QHP]

It was necessary to name "Basurman" in the EAO it would not be a shame .

[Nikolaevich I]

Oh, and they like to confuse "a fork with a bottle" in VO! "Pecheneg" is a dangerous steppe warrior ... a serious enemy! The Pecheneg machine gun is a formidable weapon for the enemy, like a Pecheneg! Basurmanin is ... a non-believer, a foreigner! To call weapons a non-believer, a foreigner? Fir-trees, but for me, the Pecheneg machine gun will be more tolerant than the Inoverets infantry fighting vehicle!

[sustav75]

The name is already so ugly that it caused controversy and skirmishes here ...

[Nazar]

AlexFly - And what is the main name in military equipment? Everyone so zealously condemns the name of this rarity ... I'm 69 years old, I served in the SA 50 years ago (!!!) years ago just on the BMP-1 and it's interesting, it seems strange to me alone to enter the Russian army in 2022 technology (albeit slightly modernized) but still the same as 50 years ago?

[IL-18]

Brockhaus and Efron forgotten

[IL-18]

Here you go! This is a military-political saig, not a philological one. But the "term" under discussion came from the word "Muslim", it's just that the serfs recruited into the army did not differ in literacy. And Muslims were called infidels without any humiliation, just as they heard. But over time, it was passed on to all non-Christians and foreigners. The Turks, in particular and their other allies, have shown themselves to be a strong, respectable adversary, i.e. sunk into the soul, they are remembered. And then any other, with unfriendly intentions, began to be called that.
So your comment and mine just complement each other.

[Alexfly]

Did you hear this heartbreaking story from? This word came from the Foreigner, moreover, at that time most of them were Muslims .. since Russia was expanding the Southern borders ..

[tikhonov66]

This is to what extent it is necessary to be TALENTED !!! in order to
Convert Muslims to BUSURman?!!!
- so you have from Muslims - they will also "hatch"
anglo fan graphomaniac doberman marcoman talisman shpilman erotoman antiroman balletomaniac donkerman immelman kleptomaniac and...
- O! - and also "reckless" and "self-deception" and "liar" ...
8-))
.
- maybe it’s already enough BOSH to carry ... near-Muslim ...
I also found bullshit, mmmlyin ...
8 - ((

[Bad_gr]

".... - Yes, you understand, - Varvara fumed, bringing a newspaper sheet to the chamberlain's nose. - Here is the article. See? "Among hummocks and icebergs."
– Icebergs! Mitrich said mockingly. We can understand this. Ten years of no life. All Icebergs, Weisbergs, Eisenbergs, all sorts of Rabinovichs .... "

Ilf and Petrov "The Golden Calf"

[malyvalv]

Well, Mohammed became like Mohammed with us. Who goes to the mountain if the mountain does not go to him. And the supporters of his teachings became Mohammedans. Why is Basurmanin worse?

[bayard]

Quote: AlexFly

Basurmanin means GENTIER (foreigner), i.e. anyone else of faith..

UNCHRIST.
And since our state is secular and natural infidels serve in our Army and law enforcement agencies, it is not shameful to call the BMP as such.

But besides the name itself, the BMP-1AM also has a function - a proven model for mobilizing obsolete BMP-1s at storage bases to quickly replenish / increase the number of armored vehicles.
And such a BMP-1AM is no longer for combat, but as a well-armed tracked armored personnel carrier.
If you need to quickly equip new formations of your own Army and the armies of your allies, here is such a fairly budgetary upgrade option that will allow you to quickly saturate new formations with equipment and weapons. There are several thousand of them at the storage bases (although there are more BMP-2s), so the good does not go to waste.

[sustav75]

Basurman cons probably put! The title is really idiotic. They would have called even then "enemy" or "adversary" ...

[Shender]

By the way, as an option, the same is very worthy)))

[lot]

Not Mod (r) jakher and thank God.

[BARKAS]

for "Basurman" literally sounds like a non-Christian faith.

For them, they were originally created, presumably.

[bayard]

Quote: BARKAS

For them, they were originally created, presumably

Everything can be.
In 2014, a consolidated corps of the CSTO forces was to be formed - a permanent military formation to stop crisis situations in the region.
Each of the participating countries was supposed to provide / delegate its own contingent, the Russian Federation was supposed to provide weapons and equipment (!), Organize the training of command personnel and general leadership.
Perhaps under that program the modernization of the BMP-1AM was created - inexpensively, angrily and conveniently to maintain and operate.
The ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Syria are also a reason for the interest of these states in the purchase of inexpensive, familiar, but quite effective equipment. Or the modernization of their own armored vehicles for this project.
Beyond the Ocean (Atlantic) - poor countries such as Nicaragua, Cuba, etc., are also interested in inexpensive, efficient and easy-to-use equipment.
Africa!
There, in general, blacks with Russian flags are worn - the French colonialists are being kicked out. It will be just right for them too.
So "Basurman" for the Basurmans (because the French were the same for our ancestors in 1812).

[Osipov9391]

And what now to do with Ukraine? It would be better then in 2014, the CSTO forces tried to reason with the junta using the request of Yanukovych.
Now every day Boryspil (and not only) receives almost a dozen heavy aircraft from the USA and Britain.
Even if the war does not start now and the conflict in the Donbas freezes over for a certain time, what will happen to Ukraine in six months or a year and beyond with such a pumping of weapons and money from the West?
Today they bring ATGMs and so on. But if tomorrow they bring air defense systems, operational-tactical missiles and deploy their combat aircraft at Ukrainian airfields?

It turns out that if everything is left as it is, then even (even if there is no war now) in the near future Ukraine will become a very serious military threat to our territory.
That's what it means to hit an operational-tactical missile in some Voronezh thermal power plant when it's minus 20 outside?
A city with a million inhabitants remains without electricity and heating.

[bayard]

Quote: Osipov9391

And now what to do with Ukraine? It would be better then in 2014 by the CSTO

Ukraine was not part of the CSTO, and a request for help to Russia was made public several times - through oral appeals and letters, Yanukovych sent Putin.
To no avail.
In the Russian Federation, they rejoiced at the Olympiad and were preparing for the "New Yalta" ...
As the people say: "Fools got rich with their thoughts."
And missed the blow.
Missed GENERALLY - EVERYTHING.
Flying in rainbow clouds, like the top communists of the late 80s ... they surrendered everything. Hoping for some "agreements", "promises" and hoping to be on the ... "board of directors".
They got caught for the second time!
History teaches nothing.
And they have crap analysts.

Now it seems to have arrived. Send ultimatums ... we'll see.

Quote: Osipov9391

Now every day Boryspil (and not only) receives almost a dozen heavy aircraft from the USA and Britain.

Yes, it just doesn’t matter - we will get more trophies.

Quote: Osipov9391

Today they bring ATGMs and so on. But if tomorrow they bring air defense systems

MANPADS have already been brought. And they don’t have normal air defense systems at all.
And those that are worth SO MUCH that they will definitely not be sold to the Sumerians. And even more so - they will not be transferred.

Quote: Osipov9391

operational-tactical missiles and deploy their combat aircraft at Ukrainian airfields?

They do not yet have such missiles, and aviation has been based and mastered at Ukrainian airfields more than once. It won't be news.

Quote: Osipov9391

what is the hit of an operational-tactical missile in some Voronezh thermal power plant when it is minus 20 outside?

If this suddenly happens, then the words of the guarantor of the Minsk agreements about the loss of statehood by Ukraine will immediately come true.

Quote: Osipov9391

A city with a million inhabitants remains without electricity and heating.

We do not have local electrical networks - they are powered from the Big Ring. In Russia, power generation is in full order - there is much more need for reserve capacities.

[Osipov9391]

With a reserve of energy supply, not everything is so simple - if there is one thermal power plant or another power plant (even a nuclear power plant) in the city, then access to the external energy system exists only through its switchgear.
That is, if a rocket gets there, the power plant will not only stop, but those consumers that are powered by it via one-way lines will not receive a reserve.
At nuclear power plants, there are backup diesel engines for this.
But in any case, being left without heating is also not very pleasant when there is a deep minus outside.

Now further. Ukraine today actually officially abandoned the Minsk agreements.
And now the whole world is discussing that the Russian authorities for 7 years of these agreements were simply fooled by the junta. And she pulled out and is pulling out time, arming herself and strengthening herself.

[bayard]

Quote: Osipov9391

access to the external power system exists only through its switchgear.

If this really happens. If the Sumerians find such a missile that will fly to Voronezh and hit exactly the "switchgear" (and not the coal warehouse, for example) ... then this device will simply be changed in an emergency mode, they will throw temporary huts directly from the power lines at the substation ... That's not a nuclear explosion. Moreover, with heating, everything will still be fine. Yes, and there are certainly enough boiler houses in the metropolis itself in addition to thermal power plants.
Remember the blown up power lines leading to the Crimea - it was much more serious there - the cable had to be pulled along the bottom of the sea ... and the cable itself must first be made. True, it was summer.
And now it's just a matter of reconnecting a large city to a single network. And for sure there are similar situations in the algorithms of the Ministry of Emergency Situations and local power engineers.
What will they hit?
"Death"? "Old "Points"? Or new "Neptunes"?
In any case, the damage will be no more than from one FAB-500.

Quote: Osipov9391

Now further. Ukraine today actually officially abandoned the Minsk agreements.

"In fact" is not legal. They have already stated this many times, then they declared their commitment to the Minsk agreements ... These are all the same songs.
It’s just that the Kremlin doesn’t want to enter Ukraine itself, nor does it want to dismember (partition - like Poland) it ... and don’t want to put up with NATO bases on its territory either.
The Kremlin itself does not know what it wants from Ukraine .
It would suit him to be again, as of old - before the coup.
But it won't.
And what "cunning plans" they are now implementing, only Ahura Mazda knows ... And even then - He knows the mind of the reasonable.
And today, all the chiefs of the capitalist world are completely mad, this circus with horses is already a shame to watch. And sickening. If you look into the details.

Quote: Osipov9391

And now the whole world is discussing that the Russian authorities for 7 years of these agreements were simply fooled

The world is always talking about something. Either the initiatives of a seriously ill girl Gretta ... That transgender diversity ... That reloading high-altitude suits for pregnant pilots in the NATO Air Force ... That octopus Paul ...
Now they are discussing Ukraine.
Apparently she deserved it.
Right now, she is mobilizing school graduates and aunts / grandmothers up to 60 years old, and she will have the most combat-ready Army in the world.
I would rather believe in Russian missiles in Cuba than in the march of Russian armored cavalry to Berdichev.

In the meantime, shale gas production began in Slavyansk.

[75 Sergey]

Do not talk nonsense ... For me, the infidels are the enemies of Russia, living outside of it.

[Servisinzhener]

BMP-1AM was named "Basurmanin". Blacks live in Africa. And if you cannot live without political correctness, tolerance and non-binary personalities free from gender prejudice. Then you should think about moving.

[Sovpadenie]

In order not to split the society, the next modification will be called "Infidel"

[BMP-2]

I think it would be much more accurate and correct to call "Shuravi" or "Bacha"!

[Shender]

What is offensive in the word Basurman and for whom? They even called it with humor)))
"Partners" called Kuzkin's mother Satan - did you decide that you are a devil?

[Recoil]

Etymology

Comes from other Russian. besurmenin (Ipatievsk. under 1184). Loans. from Tat., Kazakh. muslim, tour. müslim, müslümän, folk. musurman. Russians are especially close. Turkic forms. forms with b-, e.g. Kirg. busurman, Kumyk, Balkar. busurman. b- is also available in Kypch. and Volzhskobolg. The source of these words is Persian. muslimån (pl.) from Arabic. muslim.

[den3080]

Quote: Ancestors from the Don

I would like to remind you that Russia is in fact a secular, but at the same time a multi-confessional state, and this is enshrined in Art. 14 of the Constitution. Those who come up with such names make a split, because "basurman" literally sounds like a non-Christian faith.

Truth is yours!!
It is necessary to advise that they rename it to "Chatlanin"

[Third district]

Quote: den3080

It is necessary to advise that they rename it to "Chatlanin"

And call the new grenade launcher "Patsak"

[Alexfly]

I think that the 30-mm gun is also pumping up to meet its requirements ..

[zloybond]

there were so many expectations that they would start installing modules with a 57 mm cannon, and now those times, we are marking time again. Those that already have 30mm should continue to be in service. Those with thunder would have immediately gradually changed to 57

[venik]

Quote: AlexFly

I think that the 30-mm gun is also pumping up to meet its requirements ..

=======
So it is, so. As a weapon for advanced technology, it is no longer very .... But so far it is still quite "on the level" ...
I'm interested in something else: "...According to open sources, the units and formations of the Russian army have several hundred BMP-1s, and several thousand more are in storage. .....". And what, in warehouses and storage bases BMP-2 no longer left? If the only goal is to increase the combat effectiveness of motorized rifle units (armed with obsolete equipment), then wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to simply replace the BMP-1 with the repaired BMP-2?
Although, on the other hand, the ability to quickly increase the combat power of outdated, in armament, but quite serviceable vehicles is very good. Yes, and the export potential of such a program is considerable.

[carstorm 11]

And what to do with BMP 1?))) Quite a reasonable temporary solution. The hulls are squeezing idle. They found a niche. Modernization. Well, or melted down.

[Graduate engineer]

Finished a long time ago!

[Morglenn]

there’s not even how much a gun, how much the absence of modern shells. both armor-piercing and high-explosive fragmentation

[Graduate engineer]

Formally correct. Modern armor-piercing is BOPS with a high initial speed. Modern OFZs are with controlled undermining. New ammunition for the old cannon is not created.

[Shender]

In order to make the tank incompetent (not to be confused with destroy), the capabilities of 2-A-42 are more than enough. For in large quantities for cheap to upgrade the existing old one is a very smart solution.

[Shender]

remove the useless "thunder". 2-A-42 is quite responsible for the tasks. Technique of the enemy puts out of action for one or two.

[venik]

Quote: Shender

2-A-42 is quite responsible for the tasks. Technique of the enemy puts out of action for one or two.

=====
There is not a 2A42 (as on the BMP-2), but a weaker 2A72. Neither the combat module nor the BMP-2 itself will pull the 42A1 cannon: it has a slightly larger demon and, most importantly, much stronger recoil. The BMP-2 uses much stronger armor and reinforced suspension! No wonder the designers limited themselves to 2A72 - otherwise it would have required much more serious and expensive changes to be made. And so it turned out: "and cheap and cheerful"!

[Elturisto]

This is not true. 2A72 was installed because the size and design of the shoulder strap of the BTR-80 did not allow the installation of a more powerful gun, that's all, no need to invent it. The front plate on the BMP-1 and -2 is the same, by the way. And the torsion bars flew (and sometimes the front rollers) for both cars, because when braking, the car nods due to the front location of the MTO.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: ElTuristo

due to the front location of the MTO

for the same reason, it is impossible to strengthen the armor of the frontal projection of the hull on the BMP-1/2. You can hang a little on the sides, on the tower, but the front end is already heavy, the car begins to nod even more willingly - not only when braking, but also when driving over bumps.

[Elturisto]

Yes, that's right, but morons who like the front location of the MTO will never explain anything. They didn’t have to shoot from the BMP-1 and 2. The car really sways after stopping, which causes delays in firing even with a stabilizer in the BMP-2.

[venik]

Quote: ElTuristo

2A72 was installed because the size and design of the shoulder strap of the BTR-80 did not allow the installation of a more powerful gun, that's all, no need to invent.

=======
The dimensions of the guns 2A72 and 2A42 are approximately the same!
2A72:

2A42:

So, it fits perfectly into the dimensions of the BTR-80 shoulder strap! There was even such an attempt to install a DBM with a 82A2 cannon on the BTR-42 (BTR-88 was called):

But, over the past 7 years, this topic has not gone further and somehow died out ......
--------

Quote: ElTuristo

The front plate on the BMP-1 and -2 is the same, by the way.

=======
Firstly: the tower / module is not installed on the VLD, but on the roof (and the sheet is much thinner there!).
Secondly: the thickness of the sheets there may be the same, but the steel is DIFFERENT! And on the BMP-2 it is much stronger! But this is already critical, since the recoil impulse of the 2A72 is stretched in time (due to automation based on the recoil of the barrel with a long stroke) and its peak the values ​​are almost THREE times less than those of 2A42 (7 tons versus 20 tons). That's where it is!

[Elturisto]

In engineering, there is no concept - it’s much stronger - this is couch terminology. If the barrel length and ammunition are the same, then the muzzle energy is the same, and hence the recoil. Therefore, you don’t need to invent any nonsense on the go. The 2A72 barrel is thinner and is designed for less pressure, that’s all .Apparently, excess energy is dumped during the operation of automation. Therefore, go teach physics to the 6th grade.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Strength is not an abstract concept at all, but quite an engineering one. And there is no need to invent about the design of guns without owning the subject. The 2A42 and 2A72 have different principles of operation of automation, the thickness of the barrel is secondary. And in what physics textbook for the 6th grade is the principle of operation of automatic guns described?

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

For people who have studied physics poorly, I repeat, the principle of operation of automation is different, therefore the return is also different. Because the energy of the shot can be converted into heat by recoil devices or partially compensated by the recoil of the barrel, as in the 2A72 gun.

[venik]

Quote: ElTuristo

In engineering, there is no concept - much stronger - this is couch terminology.

======
And what other language can you still talk to if you don’t even understand the difference between energy and momentum, power and strength? Only on this (explain on the fingers)!
=======

Quote: ElTuristo

The 2A72 barrel is thinner and designed for less pressure, that's all.

=======
What all"? What about "pressure"? What does it mean by "thinner"?
-----

Quote: ElTuristo

Apparently odd energy is released during operation of the automation.

=======
HOW is it "discarded"? WHERE is it "discarded"?
----------

Quote: ElTuristo

So go teach physics to the 6th grade.

=======
You talking to me??? Well, well ..... Have you ever heard anything about physics ???
Judging by the "pearls" - almost nothing but the name ....
PS It's better not to disgrace yourself with such comments and teachings!
PPS And in general, amused, of course, not weakly! Thank you, gorgeous!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Let me disagree on some points. It is unlikely that the BMP-1 has a weaker hull than the BMP-2, especially since it holds the recoil of the 73 mm Thunder gun. Even the hull of the light BMD-2 can handle it, even though the car shakes more when firing. Here they did it, rather, according to the principle of unification with the BTR-82A, they could still be guided by the greater reliability of the 2A72, it has fewer delays when firing.

[venik]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

Let me disagree on some points. It is unlikely that the BMP-1 has a weaker hull than the BMP-2, especially since it holds the recoil of the 73 mm Thunder gun.

======
Sergei! "Thunder" is, in fact, nothing more than a modification of the SPG-9 easel grenade launcher! There - an effort even less recoil than 2A72 !!! Pro peak meaning instant recoil force - I'm not talking anymore!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

And where do the powder gases go? The SPG-9 is understandable, but in the BMP-1? In the BMP-1, this is a gun, albeit with low ballistics.
And don't talk about the low recoil from the BMP-1 to me, I have repeatedly observed broken foreheads from a shot in those who did not press against the sight. In the same BMP-2, you have to manage to break the face, there you can only hear the metallic clang from the shot, and in the BMP-1 it was easy to get a hit on the forehead with a sight.

[venik]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

And where do the powder gases go? The SPG-9 is understandable, but in the BMP-1?

=======
Well, did you see those shots? This is a de facto reactive grenade, where the charge in the sleeve is used exclusively to push the grenade out of the barrel, and then, at a distance of 20-40 m from the muzzle, the sustainer engine is turned on.

Those. there, the recoil is stretched in time and most of the gases are ejected AFTER the grenade exits the barrel! That is why such a weak recoil force!
---------

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

And don't talk about the low recoil from the BMP-1 to me, I have repeatedly observed broken foreheads from a shot in those who did not press against the sight. In the same BMP-2, you have to manage to break your forehead, but in the BMP-1 it was easy.

========
Sergei! You still do not understand what is important for the deformation of a steel sheet maximum value instant force. Well, besides - slightly different shock absorbers - it sways more!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

You didn't understand anything, absolutely nothing of what was written.
He’s talking about foreheads broken by recoil, but it posts pictures to you and tries to invent differences in buildup and torsion bars. Sometimes you have to listen to your elders.
Once again I was convinced that trying to have a discussion on this site with couch generals and marshals is not self-respecting.

[venik]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

Once again I was convinced that trying to have a discussion on this site with couch generals and marshals is not self-respecting.

=======
Well, this is just understandable: "disrespect" yourself (beloved) and go on!
And then maybe learn to UNDERSTAND not only otherbut yourself!

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: venik

Neither the combat module nor the BMP-2 itself will pull the 42A1 cannon

BMP-1-30 "Razbezhka" with BO from BMD-2 with a 30-mm gun 2A42

BMP-1M from "Muromteplovoz" (with various combat modules of the MB2 type with a 2A42 cannon and AGS or ATGM)

[venik]

Quote from Tomcat_Tomcat

BMP-1-30 "Razbezhka" with BO from BMD-2 with a 30-mm gun 2A42

Quote from Tomcat_Tomcat

BMP-1M from "Muromteplovoz" (with various combat modules of the MB2 type with a 2A42 cannon and AGS or ATGM)

=======
So, where are all these projects? WHY did they all remain projects? Why did you decide to install a turret from the BTR-82 with a 2A72 gun, and not 2A42?
PS You can install anything you want .... Question: WHAT will be the result? Look, the Poles even managed to cheat on their BMP-1 (BVP-1) 40-mm Bofors:

And WHAT happened? The car has become heavier by 2.5 tons. Despite even the reinforcements of the hull, when firing at high elevation angles, the top sheet often caved in, "speed and maneuverability worsened, the landing force decreased from 8 to 4-6 people, fuel consumption and engine wear increased, and the ability to to swim!
I repeat once again: the BMP-1 for the 2A42 cannon is POORLY adapted - serious work will be required to strengthen the hull in the turret ring area, strengthen the chassis, strengthen the chassis, etc. And this will lead to an increase in weight (with all the ensuing consequences). But 2A72 - fits in there without any problems! It is only outwardly that the BMP-1 and BMP-2 differ only in the turret! In fact, there are more differences than you think.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: venik

So, where are all these projects? WHY did they all remain projects? Why did you decide to install a turret from the BTR-82 with a 2A72 gun, and not 2A42?

This is obvious) Because this fighting compartment is simpler and cheaper. You can see for yourself what combat costs - the minimum equipment, with 2A72, without AGS and without ATGMs. In addition, complete unification of BO with the BTR-82A. Only.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Yes, that’s not the point, they put into operation a working version of the modernization that was ready many years ago. Uninhabited combat modules with a 2A42 cannon have appeared only in recent years, and it is not entirely clear how it is with delays in firing, loading and supplying ammunition. If the problems are resolved, then, perhaps, we will soon see other upgrade options in operation already with the 2A42 gun.
While I don't like uninhabited modules, there are problems with orientation in space, awareness and elimination of delays when firing. If on an armored personnel carrier the replacement of a tower without a hatch with an uninhabited module does not look inconvenient, then on the BMP-1 the gunner-operator is already losing the hatch on the tower.

[Constanty]

Out of curiosity, I want to add that the BMP-1 chassis "pulled" 40mm Bofors - BWP-40

The chassis survived, unfortunately the BMP did not sink, but did not swim either, which led to the abandonment of the project

[Orange bigg]

. The Ministry of Defense announced the delivery of modernized BMP-1AM "Basurmanin" to the troops

We rely on the quantity, not the quality of the BMP. But, as you know, the stingy one pays twice. It would be better to buy new T-15s. At least they have normal armor. few people care about what will happen to the crew in battle. The main thing is to report on the amount of equipment and put a tick.

[donavi49]

RPG-7 knock out

With it, you can knock out the Leopard if you're lucky. The BMPKh has not changed in the hull, which means that from a machine gun to the side, from all sorts of heavy rifles, etc. Toyota with KPVT in the back buries the box, checked by Syria.

[IL-18]

Quote: donavi49

Toyota with KPVT in the back

In one short burst of 30 mm, it turns into scrap metal. I have a feeling that this is done, like an armored personnel carrier on a caterpillar track. Deliver l / s to the place, and fire support from afar. Javelin hits at 2,5 km, and 2A72 at 4. Half a kilometer from the tank as part of a combined arms formation is quite possible. But only in the case of Syria or Ukraine.

[donavi49]

This is all in the spherokon in one short burst. In a real situation, the BMP is rather blind, again saving on surveillance devices. Therefore, Toyota has the advantage of jumping out from where they are not waiting. Of course, if Toyota goes to the cannon and there is a duel, then yes, Toyota has zero chances. However, in life, especially urban battles - everything is not so. And Toyota leaves from some thread of the intersection / blockage for a long line, then hides in the building and takes off again from a completely different place.

About the fact that 2A72 hits 4 km and shoots Javelin, it generally fell off the chair. And here shooting at a distance - the detection of a target such as the Javelin operator, again, not in a clean contrast field in the thermal sight, in the expected place. Watch a video / photo of the use of armored vehicles in Syria, Armenia, and even in the Donbass, you can dig up a chronicle (but tinder from YouTube) - it’s almost always unclear where it comes from. At a conditional 1,5-2 km, the operator with the Javelin will have the right to fire the first shot.

[Shender]

Here is pearl...
In response, such a marshal is only advised to tie himself to a chair stronger. Brains like that don't just get thrown around.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

The marshal is a couch, in reality, and even in urban combat, a machine gunner on a Toyota will not even have time to attach himself to a machine gun, as a bullet from the nearest shooter with a machine gun will pop. Distances in city blocks rarely exceed 200 meters, at such distances a sedentary figure in full growth is almost like a target on a training ground.

[strannik1985]

It's all in spherocon

Yeah, the Iraqi "Fedayins of Saddam" tried to portray the Toyota war near As-Samavah in 2003 - they rolled it out from machine guns and AG. No, if we have plenty of "disposable" infantry, then please

[IL-18]

Quote: donavi49

all in spherocone

And what about me? I suggested what they proceeded from, accepting such an option for modernization.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

It is this modernization with this combat module that is not the most perfect option, it was chosen, apparently, for reasons of unification with the BTR-82A. There are modules with an additional automatic grenade launcher, it is with its help that targets similar to the calculation of ATGMs are effectively destroyed at ranges up to or about 2 kilometers.

[Lykases1]

You can also pierce it with a machine gun.

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Lykases1

You can also pierce it with a machine gun.

Well then, why do we need this shahid-mobile in the army?

[Lykases1]

Sorry, but it was made in the years when the infantry moved on foot, or in tilt cars, or even open ones. Agree, light rifle armor is better than an awning. The landing force could fire on the move. Where it went is another question. Plus, the BMP is not the main combat unit. Tanks ahead. And behind them, the infantry fighting vehicle hurries the landing and supports it with fire. At the time it was a breakthrough.

[Servisinzhener]

I would say that it was created in the years when the use of tactical nuclear weapons was planned everywhere.

[Lykases1]

Exactly. Jumped out of my head

[Sergey Medvedev]

Quote: Lykases1

You can also pierce it with a machine gun.

Not true. During the exercises, the BMP-1 received a turn in the side from the PKT from 100 m. There are dents, there are no holes. Bullet LPS. I saw it personally.

[Lykases1]

What is not true? That the calibers of machine guns do not stop at 7,62? What will the board look like after the NSVT or KPVT turn? Yes, and PKM will completely break through from above, into the roof, for example, in a city or mountains

[Barberry25]

better is the enemy of the good. Not to mention the fact that pennies go through repair factories, not BMP factories, not to mention the fact that the T-15 has not yet finished testing and has not fully entered mass production .. In fact it’s better to have 300 modernized kopecks than 10 T-15s and 290 BMP-1s with Groms, the only thing that can be put in the negative is the lack of a turret ATGM, although versions of the BPPU with ATGM have already been shown at exhibitions more than once, because the portable Metis is a bit of a perversion

[Orange bigg]

I hope that this year all tests will finally be completed, including state tests, T-14, T-15, K-16, K-17, and from next year they will all go into mass production. It’s better to produce new ones, than to endlessly modernize the old.

State tests of an armored personnel carrier and an infantry fighting vehicle based on the Boomerang platform are scheduled to begin in the spring of 2022, Lieutenant Colonel Yuri Chikin, head of the 154th military representative office, said at the Arzamas Machine-Building Plant.

“The machine has passed preliminary tests with a positive result. Currently, prototypes are being finalized to present them for state tests, which are planned to begin in March - April 2022, ”said the head of the representative office.

He clarified that "the completion of state tests is planned in November - December next year."

The military-industrial company developed the K-16 armored personnel carrier and the K-17 infantry fighting vehicle on the Boomerang platform.

The K-16 armored personnel carrier is equipped with a combat module with a 12,7-mm machine gun, the Boomerang-BM combat module with a 17-mm 2A42 automatic cannon, as well as Kornet anti-tank missile launchers, is installed on the K-30.

https://vestnik-rm.ru/news/oborona-i-bezopasnost/novosti-programmy-bumerang-gosispytaniya-nachnutsya-vesnoj-2022-goda

[Barberry25]

even if tests are completed and mass production is launched, the pace will be at the level of 2-3 battalions per year, i.e. roughly speaking, no more than 150 vehicles in the most successful year, given the fact that we have a request for 3 infantry fighting vehicles in the troops, then this is 000-20 years for rearmament, not to mention the formation of the same BARS, which, I hope, is all will grow into a separate structure by analogy with the US National Guard ..

PS K-16 with Kord is a perversion of pure water

[IL-18]

About how they will be used in combat, no one said. Maybe some brilliant ideas, or maybe "a larger number, at a lower price." Having experience in state-owned enterprises, the second option is more likely.

[Barberry25]

just like bmp-1

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Barberry25

In fact, it is better to have 300 modernized kopecks than ......

Photo from two years ago. If you look closely, the BM configuration is different: there is a 30mm mortar, and on the version that has now gone to the troops, it was replaced with a machine gun.

[Barberry25]

where did you see a 30 mm "mortar" there? there is an empty armored hull for PKT and wrapped in 2a72 film

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Barberry25

there is an empty armored hull for PKT

Yes, indeed, it looks like this is the protection of the missing (at the time of filming) machine gun, and not an automatic grenade launcher.

[Barberry25]

but in general there is a version of the BPPU with AGS, for me it's better

[lopvlad]

We rely on the quantity, and not on the quality of the BMP. But, as you know, the miser pays twice. It would be better to buy new T-15s.

we rely on increasing the country's defense capability. And for it, a hundred BMP-1AMs are better than several T-15s for the same money.

[Servisinzhener]

Moreover, the BMP-1AM now, and the T-15 later.

[Alekseev]

Why equalize a heavy promising infantry fighting vehicle and the described modernized light class vehicle?
It has been written more than once for "some civilians" that different tanks and infantry fighting vehicles are needed, different guns are important.
If it is not clear why, then it is urgently necessary to enter to receive a military education
This upgrade significantly enhances the firepower of the BMP-1 and allows it to be used quite effectively in modern combat. With the right tactics, of course.
The only thing, my personal opinion, it would be necessary, as far as possible, to strengthen the protection by using shielding and remote sensing, the Shtor system. This, of course, will raise the combat mass, but the most vulnerable places can and should be covered. There is a reserve of engine power on the BMP-1, as well as the forced version of the UTD-20.

[Lykases1]

His armor will pull dz? I read somewhere that it’s not so simple with lightly armored vehicles

[bk0010]

Quote: OrangeBigg

BMP-1AM will probably be possible to knock out from RPG-7.

Someone will beat. The BMP-1 was not for nothing called the "chariot of the apocalypse", its main task is to transport infantry through the centers of nuclear destruction after the advancing tanks. There, all the grenade launchers evaporated, and the enemy armored vehicles were knocked out by a tank avalanche. If you need a vehicle that can hold an RPG, then make it for your needs, and do not use the BMP-1.
For example, I have a poor idea of ​​​​tasks under the T-15. It is a bad idea to carry infantry to where anti-shell armor is required, they will die there. Just transporting infantry on such a chassis is expensive, instead you can buy a dozen and a half MCIs - and they will transport (by road) more and operation will come out cheaper. If you fight on it, then it’s better to make a tank for the same money: combat power is much higher, and there are much fewer corpses in case of defeat.

[Barberry25]

Well, in principle, it begs the transition to a three-species structure - mechanized divisions, where, let's say conditionally, for a regiment on heavy T-15s there will be 1 regiment on BMP-3s or Kurgans, which will have buoyancy, separate motorized rifle brigades / divisions with medium Kurgans and BMP-3s and " light "regiments and brigades with wheeled infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers with buoyancy and a long range of daytime passage and without tanks

[tikhonov66]

"...
We rely on the quantity, not the quality of the BMP.
..."
- yes, where are you from (sidyuchi on your couch) - you know - WHO, WHERE AND WHAT "is betting" on?!! eight-((
"...
BMP-1AM will probably be possible to knock out from RPG-7
..."
- yes, from an RPG - not only ABRAMS - but anything can be "knocked out".
And now what? -type, "is the uncle in Kiev?"
- drill it is not clear what ...

"...
But apparently, few people care about what will happen to the crew in battle.
..."
- Are you delusional again?
The crew is SOLDIERS.
Which are OBLIGED to perform a BATTLE OBJECTIVE.
And when they make MILITARY EQUIPMENT, they do it NOT TO "save the crew" - but TO PERFORM THE MISSION, where BALANCE is important - maneuverability, cross-country ability, security, firepower, mileage at one gas station, resistance to changes in temperature and humidity, carried ammunition , the speed of transferring equipment from combat to marching, the height of the projection of the machine, the quality of the sights, and so on, and so on .....
.
- I hope the situation for the "orange general of the couch troops" is set out COMPLETELY ACCESSIBLE ?!
- and if you are puzzled by the "preservation of the crew" - then bury it a kilometer underground.
...
"... Regiments fight in any circumstances. Until the last shell. Until the last bullet. THE MAIN OBJECTIVE is to pin down the Germans and destroy the tanks. By all means! Without my personal order, not a step back! I do not give the right to retreat! Please remember this every second!
...
“People are dying there, and you, General, are powerless to help them!”
“People are dying there, and you, General, are powerless to help them!”
- There are soldiers.
- And you do not remember that they are also people?
“No, I don’t remember, I HAVE NO RIGHT, otherwise I’ll start thinking that they have fathers, mothers, children, that they are waiting at home ... then it will be difficult to send them to their death ...
...
Hear there seems to be one gun firing.
“It should have died by the next day.
.
"Hot snow" 1972 THE USSR.
Yuri Bondarev is the last front-line writer and screenwriter, during the war he was an artilleryman.
And "Hot Snow" is 1943..
.
And it was ALWAYS like this - so according to the staff standards of the 1970s - In defense - the calculated coefficient of the T-100 anti-tank gun (rapier) is 0.8 tanks (ON AVERAGE - before the death of the gun - it manages to destroy 0.8 tanks). For an ATGM "baby" based on the BRDM1 - the value of the same calculated coefficient is already more - as much as 1.2 (!) ...
.
and this is the materiel.

[Orange bigg]

And when they make MILITARY EQUIPMENT, they do it NOT TO "save the crew" - but TO PERFORM THE MISSION

. - I hope the situation for the "orange general of the couch troops" is set out COMPLETELY ACCESSIBLE ?!

Of course it is available. Nobody cares about the preservation of the crew.

[konstantin68]

Quote: tikhonov66

ALWAYS - so according to the staff standards of the 1970s - In defense - the calculated coefficient of the T-100 anti-tank gun (rapier) is 0.8 tanks (ON AVERAGE - before the death of the gun - it manages to destroy 0.8 tanks). For an ATGM "baby" based on the BRDM1 - the value of the same calculated coefficient is already more - as much as 1.2 (!) ...

Where did you read/study this?
One question, why such a characteristic and who needs it?
I explain: is the "weaving" in the caponier, being part of the field defense, or was it rolled out into the open field "quickly" to stop the breakthrough? And where are the tanks "breaking" the defense? In a movie about fascists?

[Orange bigg]

Quote: konstantin68

Quote: tikhonov66

ALWAYS - so according to the staff standards of the 1970s - In defense - the calculated coefficient of the T-100 anti-tank gun (rapier) is 0.8 tanks (ON AVERAGE - before the death of the gun - it manages to destroy 0.8 tanks). For an ATGM "baby" based on the BRDM1 - the value of the same calculated coefficient is already more - as much as 1.2 (!) ...

Where did you read/study this?
One question, why such a characteristic and who needs it?
I explain: is the "weaving" in the caponier, being part of the field defense, or was it rolled out into the open field "quickly" to stop the breakthrough? And where are the tanks "breaking" the defense? In a movie about fascists?

Staff norms of the 1970s. What else is there to comment on? Norms of 50 years ago, which are hardly suitable for the requirements of today. They are essentially preparing for the war of the past. The second Karabakh war did not teach anyone anything. The troops of the NKR were also preparing to fight according to the old patterns, and the army of Azerbaijan was preparing for a modern war. The outcome is known to all.

[konstantin68]

Quote: OrangeBigg

Staff norms of the 1970s

Yes, I'm not talking about that.
I was always surprised by this so-called characteristic of the type: "t-72" is designed for 15 minutes of combat.
What does it give you, as the commander of a tank battalion? Or we think like this - I have 20 tanks, the adversary has 26, we apply the coefficient and voila!? Must win!

[Orange bigg]

So this is what they are. Obsolete norms. Then they still planned a total frontal war of the ATS and NATO divisions. Everyone had huge armies, and in such a war, based on such realities, the life expectancy of the T-72 was calculated. Remember how long the average life of a soldier lasted in battles for Stalingrad. Now no one has such gigantic armies. Now there are modern drones and there should be other calculations.

[carstorm 11]

Norms are general numbers. What can the war in Karabakh teach?) How did the NKR army simply put the device even on the elementary rules of battle? Every video I've seen is a blatant disregard for everything. From disguise to movement. Modern warfare is static and understandable. There is no significant difference in strategy. But a lot of new tactics. What they have been doing quite seriously for a very long time.

[Revival]

How much PATHOS, but rather nonsense ....
It’s better to have a simpler BMP so that the crew doesn’t save too much!
Brilliant!
I hope that you don’t command anything more than a teaspoon, you write off people too easily, and even for nothing ...

[carstorm 11]

Why are they needed there?) This is Far East. There are other tasks.

[sustav75]

T-15 only for the parade! You are not a rabid urapatriot. And write the truth too. True, you get cons from your own. Strange people live here. After all, a sound remark is more important than joyful exclamations about the "new" BMP ...

[Shender]

To eat a military analyst is not otherwise)))
We rely on the quantity, not the quality of the BMP. But, as you know, the stingy one pays twice. It would be better to buy new T-15s. At least they have normal armor. few people care about what will happen to the crew in battle. The main thing is to report on the amount of equipment and put a tick.
You know, with such an understanding of the issue, you urgently need to become an expert
Success awaits you!!!
Tovarisch in wordtank outplayed

[ZeeD]

Well, you need to understand that the option is: to supply 5 T-15s for the same money or upgrade 30 BMP-1s to BMP-1AM - which will be more effective, the answer is obvious?
Another thing is that the T-15 is in any case oh so necessary in the troops.
And here, apparently, they proceed from rationality per unit.

[Dart2027]

According to open sources, the units and formations of the Russian army have several hundred BMP-1s, and several thousand more are in storage.

It seems to me more and more that the adoption of the Armata is being delayed artificially. On the one hand, we have thousands and thousands of armored vehicles in our warehouses, on the other hand, tank battles in the spirit of WWII are not expected, and supertanks are not particularly needed for local conflicts. So they are modernizing the legacy of the USSR.

[Graz]

everything is much simpler, just there is not enough money for all the Wishlist, apparently there are priorities and this is the installation of hypersound on ships and aircraft

[Dart2027]

Quote: Graz

apparently there are priorities and this is the installation of hypersound on ships and aircraft

This is of course a priority, as are air defense systems.

[carstorm 11]

You apparently have little understanding of what rearmament is. I advise you to study the topic of deliveries of new tanks to the GSVG and how 80 appeared there in general. I will hint - they were not supposed to be there at all in the beginning.

[Dart2027]

Quote: carstorm 11

You apparently poorly understand what rearmament is

Well, explain it.

[carstorm 11]

Mistakes. Raw 64 shoved hundreds. The teachings, in my opinion, are 82 years old and all the command is out. More than 70 percent of equipment failure. Combat readiness killed. Will an example work? Rearmament is a very difficult moment. Slim even. Imagine, for example, a battalion. It has been completely refurbished. Everything. Zero readiness. It takes time to accept the technique, study and study. Until that happens, this battalion is just a statistic. T 14 crude. He is ready, but he needs to run in the troops. What they are doing now. After that, he will go to units in strategic directions. In the Far East, if he appears, then after many years. He's just redundant.

[Dart2027]

Quote: carstorm 11

It takes time to accept the technique, study and study.

Well, that's what they would have said. I know this very well.
The point is that, in principle, they do not seek to put new armored vehicles into service - of course, a tank or infantry fighting vehicle is not a bicycle, but it is not a cruiser either, so the running-in process really looks drawn out.

[carstorm 11]

Not everything is so simple, I explained why. Combat readiness is what affects everything. And if it is profitable for her to do something, then so be it. Is always. Both in the past and in the future. Everything comes from her.

[Dart2027]

Quote: carstorm 11

Combat readiness is what affects everything.

This is true, but in order for it to be a new technique, you need to master it. Let's take your example with a battalion. Having received new vehicles, he is in a transitional state for some time, but then his combat readiness sharply increases compared to the original one. However, if new machines are not supplied, then he will not master them.

[Amateur]

"Basurmanin" with "Metis" in the Jewish Autonomous Region - did a joker start up in the Moscow Region?

[musketon64]

This "modernization" can be described in one phrase --- a new bridle for an old nag.

[Graz]

Well, there is no money for a cow, therefore. decided to feed the goat a little

[alexniko77]

A 30mm automatic with two-plane stabilization, which is not even on deuces (there is only on the horizon), instead of worthless thunder and a new engine, and you call it a new bridle for an old nag? this is, uh... a somewhat ill-advised statement...

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

The BMP-2 also has two-plane stabilization, the sight was not stabilized there, there was constant vibration and trembling in motion.

[alexniko77]

no, only the horizon, and you don’t need to write without knowing the essence

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

What is this?
".. Purpose, characteristics of the stabilizer 2E36-1 ..
STV is intended for stabilization and stabilized guidance in the horizontal and vertical planes of the 2A42 gun and the PKT paired with it in order to ensure effective firing on the move and from a place at ground targets, as well as from a place at air targets. In addition, it provides commander's target designation in the horizontal plane ...."
So who among us does not know the essence?

[alexniko77]

yes, it’s wrong, on paper there is a stabilizer, but in fact, for some reason, there was no vertical stabilizer in the car. something like this...

[musketon64]

So it is - a thermal imager, a 30-mm gun, etc. the essence is a new bridle on the old nag in the old BULLET-RESISTANT body. Russia has a lot of obsolete T-72 tanks in stock. So they need to be used for conversion into heavy infantry fighting vehicles in the same way as the Israeli Akhzarit, for maximum protection of the infantry and crew. And weapons are already in second place in terms of the importance of characteristics. In all the armies of the world exactly the same trend.
And on the roof of the hull, you can install the Epoch module with more powerful and long-range
ATGM. or, if money is a pity, then which one is simpler. Like this.

[alexniko77]

and where to plant the infantry in the t-72 hull, constructor-modernizer?

[musketon64]

And where did the Jews land the infantry in the T-55 corps?
They threw out the old Soviet diesel engine and installed a more compact and powerful American one. And in the rear of the hull they arranged a manhole hatch for landing infantry. Was it really difficult to type into the search engine - the Akhzarit armored personnel carrier and look at the pictures from all angles and read the information? Capacity -3 crew and 7 people. landing.

[alexniko77]

and who will develop and implement a new engine, a new lineup? it's easier to do from scratch than to make all sorts of crap. a new module was shoved into the old building, and this is enough, since there is also a material and monetary issue.

[musketon64]

a new module was shoved into the old building and this is enough, since there is also a financial issue

This is what I called a new bridle for an old nag. Not only the hull is outdated, but also the gun and, especially, the anti-tank systems.
The tank corps is not crap at all. Instead of a discarded turret, there is still an opportunity to strengthen it with additional armor packages.

and who will develop and implement a new engine, a new lineup?

The game is worth the candle. Repackaging isn't the biggest problem. All you need is a different, really new engine. Or have they already forgotten how to do it? For the "Kurganets" could they? But even he will be inferior in terms of armoring the "tank" BMP.

because there is also a financial issue.

This is what was put at the forefront instead of the security of personnel.
But the use of T-72/90 tanks and such infantry fighting vehicles on the same platform will greatly facilitate the logistics of formations. And this is also money.

[tikhonov66]

"...
Was it really difficult to score in a search engine - armored personnel carrier "Ahzarit"
..."
- "scored" ...
Combat weight - 44 (forty-four !!!) tons.
BMP-1 - 13 tons ... - 3,4 times LESS. She - even SWIMS!
- and to modern ATGMs, RPGs, armor-piercing projectiles - I don’t care what to pierce ...
So maybe instead of ONE monstrous "Akhzarit" - bring / transfer THREE BMP-1?!

[musketon64]

- and to modern ATGMs, RPGs, armor-piercing projectiles - I don’t care what to pierce ...

I think that the Jews will not agree with you. According to the experience of their conflicts with the Arabs, these machines perfectly hold RPG shots. As for armor-piercing shells, I can only add that additional armor packages hung in the bow of the hull increase armor resistance even higher than that of a tank. Plus a lower silhouette.

Combat weight - 44 (forty-four !!!) tons.

So what ?! The BMP T-15 has a combat weight of 55 (fifty-five !!!!) tons.

So maybe instead of ONE monstrous "Akhzarit" - bring / transfer THREE BMP-1?!

These are not airborne vehicles. This is a technique for "heavy" assault motorized infantry. And light "wedges" are not suitable for this role.
I'll add more. It is easier for vehicles (tanks and infantry fighting vehicles) on the same platform to interact in battle. I recall the story of one tank officer, commander of a tank company, who served in the GSVG (GDR), who described to me exercises on the interaction of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. So, in his words, light infantry fighting vehicles "jumping across the plowed field like frogs" simply did not keep up with the heavy "irons" - tanks. And they had to slow down, so as not to break away from motorized riflemen. And this is a delay in the pace of the offensive, if anything. But not only that, when the command was given to "dismount" the landing, the infantry literally fell out of the airborne squad with pale green faces from motion sickness (and some even "threw grubs" through their mouths), which had a bad effect on the combat readiness of the personnel.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: musketone64

According to the experience of their conflicts with the Arabs, these machines perfectly hold RPG shots.

we are talking about modern anti-tank weapons, and not RPG-7 with PG-7V during those conflicts .. although they are still working ..
modernity - for weapons 25 years old used today:
RPG grenades - up to 600 mm + DZ (even Soviet ones can do this)
Abrams gun - up to 800 mm + DZ
ATGM Kornet - up to 1300 mm with + DZ
what kind of tank without KAZ will withstand the specified? and if we consider modern means of destruction?
so there is no point in "rocking" the armored personnel carrier (infantry fighting vehicle) to the tank ..

[musketon64]

so there is no point in "rocking" the armored personnel carrier (infantry fighting vehicle) to the tank ..

Apparently, the Israelis do not know this, since on the basis of the Merkava they have developed and are producing a 60-ton Nammer to replace the Akhzarits.

we are talking about modern anti-tank weapons, and not RPG-7 with PG-7V during those conflicts .. although they are still working ..

That's right - the RPG-7 and similar foreign counterparts are still the most popular weapons in the arsenal of terrorists of all stripes (the main enemy of our army in recent conflicts). And heavy infantry fighting vehicles with thick, multi-layered and spaced armor, with DZ modules resist these shots very well (I don’t mention KAZ).
There is an article on "VO" with "Analysis of the armor (you mentioned) of the Abrams tank." Here are some data on armor resistance (if you are talking about the current level).
M1A1HA+/D/AIM/M1A2 (1990г)
TOWER: 880-900mm from BOPS / 1310-1620? Mm from the COP
BODY: 650mm? from BOPS / 970mm from COP

M1A2SEP/SEPv2/M1A1AIMv2/FEP (2000г)
TOWER: 940-960mm from BOPS / 1310-1620? Mm from the COP
BODY: n / d / n / d
That is, not a single Russian tank will break through his forehead. The Merkava has protection at about the same level.
I repeat once again: the hull of tanks converted into infantry fighting vehicles is strengthened by the removal of the turret by installing additional armor. That is, armor resistance is even higher than that of a tank. The probability of survival of the infantry and crew behind such armor is many times higher than in the BMP-1/2, which can simply be riddled with heavy machine guns. And if you get hit by a high-explosive fragmentation projectile (yes, just nearby it exploded) does not leave the infantry any chance of survival.
Other advantages that I wrote about above: the presence of one platform makes it easier for the rear services of the MTO connections and the interaction of tanks with motorized infantry.

[lucul]

Apparently the Israelis do not know this, since on the basis of the Merkava they have developed and are producing the 60-ton Nammer to replace the Akhzarits

You are again leveling weapons for a local war against weapons for a large-scale war.
For example, Russia has a mobile reserve for 20 million people - how many "Namer" will it take to staff all these 20 million people? Do you think the economy will pull out?
In a large-scale conflict, all these "Intentions" of yours will end in a week, and the economy simply cannot produce new ones, in such numbers.
Do not forget about the Iron Dome - the Arabs recently shot a little longer and Israel abruptly ran out of missiles for the Dome, they urgently asked the amers to give them money to replenish their ammunition.

[musketon64]

You are again leveling weapons for a local war against weapons for a large-scale war.

I don’t understand what kind of hypothetical large-scale war do you mean? What about the West? Or with China? So, neither with those nor with others, our Russia has NO chances in such a war. Neither by economic, nor by demographic, nor by military factors. If suddenly such a war happens, then we have only one "lifesaver" - tactical special ammunition. Only the presence of these weapons deters NATO from aggression against our country. Therefore, they are preparing and pushing their limitrophe puppets, such as Georgia and Ukraine, to make war with Russia. It is against them that we need effective conventional weapons. For example, we will never be able to produce the same Su 57 in the same quantities as the US produces its F-35s. And if the entire collective West joins its production, and even more so. Therefore, it is enough for the Russian Aerospace Forces to have only a limited number of these aircraft in service. But it is enough to put in place the "outgrown" limitrophes and other terrorist groups that have lost their shores. The same applies to other types of weapons. To date, our most dangerous potential adversary is Ukraine. About 40 million propagandized Russophobic population, 250 thousand army (and soon more than 300 thousand) supplied with Western weapons. It is clear that they will not last long against Russia, but they will do a lot of trouble.

[donavi49]

That's all Kharkov, there is a unique BMT-72. And a year ago, by the way, they rolled it out of the sludge and transplanted the combat module from the usual T-72B to the Yatagan.

And here is the original model. Behind the tower there are 5 people landing in a chessboard.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: alexniko77

and where to plant the infantry in the t-72 hull

here, for example, is a domestic development - BTR-T based on the T-55 chassis

here is the Israeli "Ahzarit" based on the same tank

And here is Russian equipment again, a heavy BMP T-15 on the Armata platform. After all, the motor was also moved from stern to bow, and the hull was thoroughly altered to accommodate the landing force and organize the stern ramp
.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: alexniko77

30-mm automatic with two-plane stabilization, which is not even on deuces (there is only on the horizon)

On the BMP-2 stands two-plane electromechanical stabilizer 2E36
You can read here "Weapon stabilizers 2E36. Design and maintenance": https://portalnp.snauka.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/KUDRYAVTSEV-GUMELEV-SV-2E36.pdf
Your car was out of order, since there was no stabilization by HV, that's all.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Most likely, the trembling of the sight was perceived as a lack of vertical stabilization.

[konstantin68]

Quote: alexniko77

this is um... a bit of a rash statement...

Better than Ukrainian shushpanzers. Or do you think to carry infantry with MCIs?
And I'll tell you this: when there was a choice of "shishiga" or on the armor, we chose the latter.

[alexniko77]

dear, you should at least delve into the essence of the discussion ...

[Elturisto]

What are you carrying an expert? We still need to see who needs a bridle.

[carstorm 11]

And what's wrong with that? This is quite normal practice.

[YOUR]

Where and for whom is the normal practice?
For example, Algeria refused such goodness.
Who else "modernizes" such junk?

[carstorm 11]

From what good?) Where are thousands of cars stored there?)

[YOUR]

Offered to buy. They initially agreed, then refused. Here on VO there was an article about this

[alex aircraft]

I didn’t understand something, but where is the ATGM? There are no ATGMs on the turret of the BTR 82 and close.

[Nikolay Dyaglev]

And there won’t be a bird, the most budgetary modernization. Moreover, in Poland, BMP 1 with a 73 mm gun are in service and no one plans to change the barrels from 73 to 30, because the equipment and so on, which is already outdated and does not meet modern requirements

[lopvlad]

Quote: Nikolay Dyagelev

in Poland, BMP 1 with a 73 mm cannon are in service and no one plans to change the barrels from 73 to 30 because the equipment and so on, so that is already outdated

better is a 30 mm cannon with 300 rounds of ammunition and vertical aiming from -5 to +70 degrees for the BMP-1AM than a 73 mm cannon with 40 rounds of ammunition and vertical aiming of no more than 30 degrees for the BMP-1.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: Alex aircraft

I didn’t understand something, but where is the ATGM? There are no ATGMs on the turret of the BTR 82 and close.

in this modification of MB2 it is not there, there is probably an error in the text of the note.
Although in reality there are combat modules from the same line and the same manufacturer with both AGS and Konkurs ATGMs.
For example, the fighting compartment MB2-05 (30-mm 2A42, PKTM, ATGM "Konkurs", 902V "Cloud", electromechanical two-plane weapon stabilizer, all-day sight TKN-4GA)

The text of the article states:

The BMP is equipped with a fire control system with a combined all-day anti-aircraft sight TKN-4GA-01, a two-plane weapon stabilizer and anti-tank guided weapons ATGM 9K115 "Metis"

However, "Competitions" were put on the BMP / BMD.
The Armed Forces are getting simpler cars, with the most "fat-free" fighting compartment

[Adler77]

I think this is a good idea. You need to use your technology as efficiently as possible.

[Thorvlobnor IV]

Due to such misanthropic armor, but good mobility, as for me, the BMP-1 has only two ways:
1. conversion into a multifunctional conveyor, like MTLB.
2. Insert a 2-barreled breech-loading 120mm mortar, add a quadric, leave 3 crew members (driver, commander, drone operator), throw on them hinged ceramic armor so that they hold 30mm in the forehead.

[Morglenn]

I agree. BMP-1 is now suitable only for any engineering equipment and equipment for support and support. But just like a war machine is rubbish

[NDR-791]

Quote: Morglenn

I agree. BMP-1 is now only suitable for any engineering equipment and equipment for support and support.

There is one more option in this updated form - to any southern mountainous neighbors who have devils with machine guns and mujahidarbs among their opponents.

[svp67]

In the subdivisions, the new infantry fighting vehicles will replace the already obsolete BMP-1s, which are currently in service with motorized riflemen.

It's good....

A large batch of modernized BMP-1AM infantry fighting vehicles will go into service with motorized rifle units of one of the combined arms armies of the Eastern Military District.

Is that bad. in 2022, at least the BMP-3M "Dragoon" should be supplied to equip our army, and at the maximum the BMP "Kurganets"

[rocket757]

The Ministry of Defense announced the delivery of modernized BMP-1AM "Basurmanin" to the troops of the party

. The equipment is working, proven, cost savings, etc., BUT, how does this fit with the request to create and use wherever necessary equipment that provides increased security for the crew and troops ???

[Stena]

. The equipment is working, proven, cost savings, etc., BUT, how does this fit with the request to create and use wherever necessary equipment that provides increased security for the crew and troops ???

Agreeing with the above, there is some likelihood of such BMP 1 turning into drones.

[rocket757]

If, suddenly, a drone, then more solid and larger weapons are required ... and so, he sho, will he crush the enemy with caterpillars?
The question is, how much will such an upgrade cost? And is it reasonable at all? Do not make a shihad mobile out of it, after all.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: Stena

there is some likelihood of such BMP 1 turning into drones.

I think that the probability of this event is very low. Why? At least for the reason that the machine is extremely unsuitable for remote control. Don't forget, the BMP-1 is an old car, from the 60s. There are no electronics in it, there is a little bit of electromechanics. What does this mean? That the car will need to be equipped with a whole bunch of sensors and actuators (gear shifting, engine control, etc.). Very difficult and not cheap. The game will not be worth the candle.

[Stena]

Quote from Tomcat_Tomcat

I think that the probability of this event is very low. Why? At least for the reason that the machine is extremely unsuitable for remote control. Don't forget, the BMP-1 is an old car, from the 60s. There are no electronics in it, there is a little bit of electromechanics. What does this mean? That the car will need to be equipped with a whole bunch of sensors and actuators (gear shifting, engine control, etc.). Very difficult and not cheap. The game will not be worth the candle.

My guess is just a guess with some degree of possibility. Moreover, there are several more options for drones - a hidden firing point and transport for combat drones.
Again, without the quantitative criteria "cost-effectiveness" and "technical feasibility".
However, time will tell.

[75 Sergey]

Well, the modification is expected.
The question is, is it possible to attach a turret with a cannon from an Octopus to this machine?
Although the Octopus weighs 18 tons, and the BMP-1 13 tons.
Interestingly, are the engines on the upgraded BMP still the same?

[Morglenn]

What Else Octopus?! They couldn’t even install 30 mm on it in the new tower, they had to develop the BMP-2. And then 125.

[75 Sergey]

Well, probably no one tried, but 125 mm will probably be a bit heavy.
Well, some rocket launchers, and you can launch vertically, right into the body! Again, all sorts of lightweight "Pinocchio" The same is not bad, they should not go on the attack, respectively, the reservation goes by the wayside, maybe air defense systems

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: 75Sergey

But is it possible to attach a turret with a cannon to this machine from an Octopus?

You can adjust, what good will come of this?
- On the BMP-1, combat from the "deuce" no longer climbs without a cardinal alteration of the hull. And you offer combat from "Octopus" ...
- Sergey, do you understand what a tank gun is? How much does it weigh itself and how much ammunition, and also what is the return of such a gun when fired? This alone should be at least alarming.

[75 Sergey]

To hell with her, with a gun, but other installations are possible?

[75 Sergey]

In, such crap can be done, not everything is carried in the Urals

[Roman 57 rus]

We do not forget about the support of well-known unrecognized republics ... otherwise they attacked here ...

[senima56]

"..... and anti-tank guided weapons ATGM 9K115 "Metis" ...? Maybe I don't understand something, but where is there on the tower from the BTR-82A, ATGM" Metis "?!

[sen]

The existing ATGM 9K115 "Metis" can only be used in a remote version. It is to be hoped that this problem will be resolved in the near future.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: sen

It is to be hoped that this problem will be resolved in the near future.

why? A "Competition" was installed on the BMP, which can be used both as part of a vehicle and in a remote version. In addition, the range of the ATGM "Konkurs" is higher (twice).
And to this day there are much more modern and powerful ATGMs - "Ataka", "Kornet"

[Morglenn]

In this form, it’s a waste of money. What about the new BM, it’s obsolete, what’s without it. I would still understand if some African country or little Cuba did this. But for Russia it’s a shame.

[iouris]

They come up with such names, apparently, those who suffer from a great mind.
Help (Duropedia)
Basurman, Basurman (distorted from "Muslim") - the designation of a person of a different (non-Christian) faith - non-Orthodox, non-Christian, foreigner. "Basurman" - a novel by I. I. Lazhechnikov. "Basurmanin"

[abc_alex]

Quote: iouris

They come up with such names, apparently, those who suffer from a great mind.
Help (Duropedia)

Lord... that's the name development programs. They are specially invented in design bureaus so that it is impossible to understand the essence of the program. These names do not go to the troops. In the army, it will be BMP-1AM.
At one time, this machine was also called by various designers “object 911”, “object 914”, “object 1200”, “object 19”, “object 659”, “object 764”. And went like a BMP-1.

[iouris]

Yes? But some believe that whatever you call a schooner, that's how it will float.

[abc_alex]

Quote: iouris

Yes? But some believe that whatever you call a schooner, that's how it will float.

The direction-finding meteorological complex RPMK-1 is called “Smile”, the thermobaric warhead 9M216 is called “Excitement”, the 240-mm rocket MS-24 with a chemical warhead is called “Laska”, the 122-mm rocket projectile 9M22K with a cluster warhead is called “Decoration”. UAZ-3150 "Naughty", shipborne radar MR-352 "Pozitiv" and 23 mm rubber bullet "Privet".
TOS-1 "Pinocchio" and TOS-1M "Sun".
SAU "Peony", "Hyacinth", "Tulip".
Sapper shovel - "Excitement", handcuffs "Tenderness", a shot to an underbarrel grenade launcher - "Foundling"


Still?

[iouris]

Do you understand the difference between "Smile" and "Basurmanin"? Not?

[abc_alex]

Quote: iouris

Do you understand the difference between "Smile" and "Basurmanin"? Not?

I repeat once again: all these names are invented inside the design bureau for DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS. And not for the finished sample in the troops. These names exist to identify programs prior to being assigned a GAU index.
In general, I will say this: recently it has become fashionable to "be offended." For everything. And if someone wants, he will even get to the bottom of the pillar. Even to Pinocchio.

[iouris]

It's not the name that worries me, but the state of the minds "inventing names".

[abc_alex]

Quote: iouris

It's not the name that worries me, but the state of the minds "inventing names".

In vain. These names are completely intermediate, taken from the bulldozer. How many of these BMP-1 modernization projects were and are there? A dozen only domestic. No one bothers with "political correctness", inventing an internal code for the project. They understand their own - and that's fine. And no one knows which project will "shoot" the military.

[Stena]

Quote: abc_alex

In vain. These names are completely intermediate, taken from the bulldozer. How many of these BMP-1 modernization projects were and are there? A dozen only domestic. No one bothers with "political correctness", inventing an internal code for the project. They understand their own - and that's fine. And no one knows which project will "shoot" the military.

Absolutely right.
Some analogy (mainly for admirers of Western ideology) is the naming of Soviet / Russian combat aircraft by, for example, the US Air Force.
Example: TU-22M - Backfire.
MI 25 - Hind, etc.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: abc_alex

all these names are invented inside KB for DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS

the names of development work (R&D) are assigned by the customer - i.e. Ministry of Defence. Do you think that designers have nothing more to do, how to invent different names? They sometimes seem very strange to us (designers) (the impression is that their program comes up with, not a person), but you can’t get anywhere - this is lowered from above, like the TTZ. The design bureau assigns an internal designation to the product - for example, "Object 675" in the case of the BMP-2, "object 688" in the case of the BMP-3, etc.

[abc_alex]

Quote from Tomcat_Tomcat

They sometimes seem very strange to us (designers) (the impression is that their program comes up with, not a person), but you can’t get anywhere - this is lowered from above, like the TTZ. The design bureau assigns an internal designation to the product - for example, "Object 675" in the case of the BMP-2, "object 688" in the case of the BMP-3, etc.

This is when the program is exactly what is "launched from above". But in this case, this is the initiative work of the factory design bureau. Well, for example, the same "Iskander" did not get its name "from above".

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

As a rule, the customer announces R&D. In the design bureau, of course, initiative work can be carried out, but the labor costs must be attributed somewhere. Therefore, they often take a similar topic and write it off. For example, before the activation of work on the OTRK you indicated, the Iskander research project of 1978 was carried out - two Tochka OTRs at the Oki SPU.
But in the civilian sphere, the Design Bureau is free to name its topics and products whatever you like. In the civil sphere and in the sphere of the military-industrial complex, there are significant differences, both in terms of the principles for constructing work and in paying for them, as well as the owners of design documentation are different (the documentation for military-industrial complex products belongs to the Customer, the design bureau is only a calc holder, in the civil sphere the owner of the documentation is the design bureau)

[abc_alex]

Quote from Tomcat_Tomcat

For example, before the activation of work on the OTRK you specified, the Iskander research project of 1978 was carried out

The origins of the development of the complex can be attributed to the Iskander research project, which has been carried out since 1978. On the subject of research work, the possibility of placing two OTR class OTR 9M79 "Point" on the SPU similar to the SPU complex 9K714 "Oka". The main goal is to create an OTR with a range of up to 400 km to replace the 9K72 complex with an 8K14 missile with increased combat performance, as well as to ensure guaranteed destruction of especially important targets by two missiles. According to unconfirmed reports, Research work "Iskander" was terminated in the first half of the 1980s at the stage of testing the aiming system and missile control systems.

It is possible that the name was thought up "at the top", but, as you understand, R&D in 1978 is not the right topic.

But the current project "Iskander" in its original form was launched at KBM precisely on its own initiative on the personal order of the chief designer S.P. in the sense that, in spite of enemies and fools, he will make a rocket that flies exactly 1987 km and ... well ... you won’t do anything with it. State. The theme received funding only in 500.
And Iskander M, this is a topic already in the 90s, it has been going on since 1993.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: abc_alex

R&D in 1978 is not the topic.

absolutely right. The name (cipher) of the works is borrowed from them

[bk0010]

Quote: iouris

Basurman, Basurman (distorted from "Muslim")

Seriously? Never would have thought.

[75 Sergey]

Maybe from Lenin? Or Volzhanin....even Bastrum comes to mind, maybe from Bastruman?!

[iouris]

It is not necessary to think here, but to know.

[bk0010]

Well, to know is to know. Let's take a classic:

Quote: Borodino

Here the drums crackled -
And the busurans retreated.
Then we began to count,
Comrades count.

Busurmans here are French. This is not today's France, then there were no Muslims in France.

[Zaurbek]

Some kind of miserable modernization ...... they would make auxiliary vehicles out of them: anti-tank systems, reconnaissance, medical, etc.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Zaurbek

Some kind of miserable modernization ...... they would make auxiliary vehicles out of them: anti-tank systems, reconnaissance, medical, etc.

The car is old, you can't get a plane out of it, at least kill yourself. This modernization turned out to be the most budgetary, as the goal was set. Suitable for inland areas. And for the outer contour there is BMP-3 and heavier and more modern vehicles.

[Zaurbek]

There is still such a moment that there are a large number of BMP-1s in warehouses. More than both 2ek and 3ek...

[abc_alex]

Quote: Zaurbek

There is still such a moment that there are a large number of BMP-1s in warehouses. More than both 2ek and 3ek...

Well, they did something that unifies the BMP-1 with other models. In case of emergency.

[Zaurbek]

They just took the BM that is in series ..... and which fits the turret. It is less in 1ki than in 2ki

[abc_alex]

Quote: Zaurbek

They just took the BM that is in series ..... and which fits the turret. It is less in 1ki than in 2ki

So I said, the requirement for the project was - minimal costs. Since it makes no sense to seriously remake the BMP-1.

[Cympak]

Could put BM "Bereg" from BMD-2M with a 2A42 30-mm autocannon (instead of 2A70), coaxial machine gun 7,62 mm + 2 ATGM "Kornet"

Shoulder strap diameter 1350 mm

[Morglenn]

By the way, in the 90s, it seemed like a tower from the BMD-2 was installed on the BMP-1 and it seemed to stand up normally. But unfortunately the project did not receive development

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

The concept of uninhabited combat modules took over. The result of following it can be seen in this example.

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: abc_alex

Suitable for inland areas.

Do you think that the inner districts can be armed, excuse me, with all sorts of rubbish? Is it not destined to master new technology there at all? Non-border districts are a mobile reserve, it is they who will represent the replenishment in case of loss of forward units. Can you imagine replenishment on BMP-1 and tanks like T-62 and T-72A? No, gentlemen, it's time to remove these vehicles from combat units. Make tractors, repair, medical, and other auxiliary ones out of them, if it's so unfortunate to write off. But they have nothing to do in the line. I would also understand if there was a large-scale war and such ersatz equipment would go to make up for huge losses - but in peacetime?

Any upgrade must also be assessed in terms of efficiency/cost. It would seem that "Basurmanin" caught up with the "deuce" on paper? But only on paper. The BMP-2 has a double turret and better observation and aiming devices. In the combat module, what was put on the BMP-1AM - one operator. The capabilities for searching and hitting targets are completely different, despite the seemingly similar composition of weapons.
We now have a considerable number of much more recent BMP-2s in storage - why are we messing with the BMP-1?

[Zaurbek]

There is more BMP 1 .... and for BMP 2M there is a powerful module ... they even put it on all sorts of Kurgans ... with 4 Cornets

[Tomcat_Tomcat]

Quote: Zaurbek

BMP 1 more

I am sure that hundreds of thousands of PPS, PPSh, Mosin carbines, Maxim machine guns still lie in our warehouses of the mobile reserve ... We don’t arm combat units with them, do we?
How many BMP-2s do we have, including those in storage? About 4,5 thousand. "Troek" is still about half a thousand. BMP-1 yes, there are many in storage - but storage is different. These cars are very old, how many of them are in more or less good condition?
Is this number (5 thousand) not enough? Moreover, everyone understands that even the "two" is outdated and does not meet modern requirements, not to mention the BMP-1.
Moreover, the described modernization of the BMP-1 is a capital and a replacement for almost everything. What is left of the base machine in the end? Hull, rollers and landing chairs? I am not against modernization as such, but I am for justified, reasonable actions. The modernization potential of any device has limits. Maybe it would be wiser to modernize the "twos" by installing the Berezhok BO and additional armor on them and purchasing new BMP-3s, since things are not going well with the Kurganets?

[abc_alex]

Quote from Tomcat_Tomcat

Do you think that the inner districts can be armed, excuse me, with all sorts of rubbish? Is it not destiny to master new technology there at all?

No. But even the USSR with its colossal military-industrial complex could not evenly equip the motorized rifle units of the BMP. Therefore, the inevitable situation will be when some units will be forced to equip the BMP-1. Well, is it better to leave it as it is with outdated weapons or give a new one, equal in characteristics to the BMP-2?

[sen]

The BMP is equipped with a fire control system with a combined all-day anti-aircraft sight TKN-4GA-01, a two-plane weapon stabilizer and anti-tank guided weapons ATGM 9K115 "Metis".

The existing ATGM 9K115 "Metis" can only be used in a remote version. It is to be hoped that this problem will be resolved in the near future.
https://vpk.name/news/300685_tak_li_ploha_i_beznadezhna_modernizirovannaya_bmp1am_basurmanin.html

[Cympak]

The existing ATGM 9K115 "Metis" can only be used in a remote version. It is to be hoped that this problem will be resolved in the near future.

Will not be. If you didn’t put it right away, then you shouldn’t wait in the future. "Metis" can only be used with a fixed launcher. And for the "Cornets" you need an appropriate sight with LLKU. "Basurmanin" is an extremely budgetary modernization of the BMP-1 in anticipation of re-equipment with a new generation of BMPs.

[Name Surname]

Everything is really so bad that the BMP-1 is being upgraded instead of being replaced ???
According to Wikipedia (such a thing, but what data is there) about 1500 BMP-2s are in storage - at least they couldn’t be restored in any way, or even equipped with an era?

[Shender]

storage-storage strife. "1st category" in storage. The one on decommissioning is also in storage.
As I understand it, the task is to replace the useless "Thunder" with 2-A-42.
What should be changed in the BMP-2 in this case?

[vintorez]

Another development of the budget. Even chasing Daesh across the desert is not very suitable. Why they did it is not clear.

[Cympak]

This modernization of the BMP-1 is a vivid example that there will be no war.
When a country plans to fight, but there is not enough money, they make an upgrade that will provide the troops with a large number of combat vehicles with maximum capabilities for minimum money. As an option - Ukrainian modernization of the BMP-1 "Spys"

And "Basurmanin" is when you need to deploy new battalions manned by conscripts. Our Defense Ministry is not ready to trust new modern equipment to conscripts, but restored BMP-1s with minimal modernization are the very thing for one year of service. According to Russian law, recruits cannot be sent into battle, but they must be trained.

[NSV]

What is the point of teaching what not to do?

[czes]

Yes, with the names of weapons at full p ... c.

[p0pulivox]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: Sergej1972

And it would seem that to abolish the Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug, the Jewish Autonomous Region, the republics of Khakassia and Karelia, and even a few other subjects means to offend the peoples by whose name they are named and who (with the exception of the Jews) are indigenous to this territory.

Many states in the US are named after Indian tribes. Interestingly, the Indians who do not live there are very offended by this?

I hope this was a joke! It seems that the JAO has never been the land of the "tribe" of Jews ...

[p0pulivox]

Quote: zloybond

there were so many expectations that they would start installing modules with a 57 mm cannon, and now those times, we are marking time again. Those that already have 30mm should continue to be in service. Those with thunder would have immediately gradually changed to 57

I agree that the modernization of military equipment is needed, but it must be meaningful, really enhancing its combat capabilities and extending its service life. In addition, nothing is reported about increasing the insufficient protection of the BMP from enemy fire.

[NSV]

..... by and large, the same BMP-2! Indeed) A budget option!)) The need for inventions is cunning!) Several hundred are still in service !!!!! , kopeck pieces in storage ....

[eehnie]

I think it is much more likely that the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics will receive this BMP-1 variant than the BMP-2. This seems like a good upgrade for corps that have lost their main weapon for some reason. If I'm not mistaken, the production of the BMP-2 turret ceased along with the production of the project. Instead, the turret of the BTR-82 variant remains in production.

According to publicly available data on production and exports (including to other former Soviet Republics), a small number of BMP-1s of all modifications are stored in Russia. Apparently, reports such as the Military Balance tend to overestimate the number of the most obsolete weapons in Russian arsenals, while at the same time tend to underestimate the number of more modern weapons.

(Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

I think it is much more likely that the Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk receive this variant of the BMP-1 than BMP-2. It seems a good modernization for hulls that lost its main weapon for some reason. If I'm not wrong the production of the turret of the BMP-2 stopped with the production of project. Instead, the turret of the BTR-82 variant remains in production.

According to public data about production and export (including to other former Soviet Republics), Russia keeps not large amounts of BMP-1 of all the variants. Apparently, reports like The Military Balance tend to overestimate the amounts of the most aged armament in the Russian arsenals, while tend to underestimate the amounts of more modern armament.

[Pavel57]

Where will Metis be?
Without ATGMs, but rather an armored personnel carrier.

[Elturisto]

Quote: alexniko77

no, only the horizon, and you don’t need to write without knowing the essence

then who doesn’t know the essence of the sofa military? I served on it there is stabilization in 2 planes marshal of the Internet troops ... :)

[Elturisto]

Quote: Torvlobnor IV

Due to such misanthropic armor, but good mobility, as for me, the BMP-1 has only two ways:
1. conversion into a multifunctional conveyor, like MTLB.
2. Insert a 2-barreled breech-loading 120mm mortar, add a quadric, leave 3 crew members (driver, commander, drone operator), throw on them hinged ceramic armor so that they hold 30mm in the forehead.

What are you carrying, what other ceramic armor :) There is actually an MTO hatch, and even so the nose is heavy due to the engine and transmission. And the bottom will fall off from the mortar shot after the first shot.

[mojohed2012]

And everything would be fine, but the cardboard armor leaves the BMP no chance.
Even in Ukraine, old infantry fighting vehicles are trying to at least something to pre-book. Lattices hang, blocks of dynamic armor, boxes with sand. Yes, whatever. But with us: they simply change the turret on the old bare chassis and declare that here is a new thing for you.
Of course, such an upgrade is better than the old manned BMP-1 turret, but think at least a little about the crew. Give him at least some hope of surviving the fight. Why can’t you think of anything in terms of at least a partial strengthening of the reservation.
The landing party will somehow pass on the armor, but the crew ...

[Escobar]

Well, yes, it doesn’t pull on a car that goes in the forefront along with tanks with such armor. So that the good would not disappear, auxiliary vehicles would be made on their chassis, such as armored personnel carriers, ammunition transporters for self-propelled guns, an 82 mm mortar, a la "drok", self-propelled counter-battery radars, and so on, which should not come into direct contact with the enemy

[Klingon]

EKRSP, someone who knows will finally write a competent commentary on the performance characteristics, or are some empty talkers going to philosophize here? What's the difference as they called it, tea is not a ship, the main thing is that it matches the tasks

[Escobar]

And where is the ATGM "Metis" on the tower? It is not installed on the BTR-82a, from which combat module?

[German A.]

Already answered ... He is not there on the tower, he is remote. In short, no one will conquer ukrov and / or fight tanks on these BMPs. So, just in case and as a tutorial.

[Roman Efremov]

Is it possible to put a more powerful engine on the BMP, which will at least slightly increase the security of the vehicle, increasing the mass to 20 tons and abandoning the unnecessary (in my personal amateurish opinion) ability to swim?

[Sergei N 58912062]

This is not modernization, but the devil knows what !!! Was it really impossible to install the Cleaver combat module, the TKN-4GA-03 sight and additional armor modules?!

[Sergei N 58912062]

Quote: Sergei N 58912062

This is not modernization, but the devil knows what !!! Was it really impossible to install the Cleaver combat module, the TKN-4GA-03 sight and additional armor modules?!

Only TPK ATGMs would do well to cover with an armored casing as in the picture from the Muromteplovoz website.

[Sergei N 58912062]

When upgrading the BMP-1AM "Basurmanin", it was necessary to install the combat module MB2-05 from Muromteplovoz.