Military Review

Designed to replace the An-2 Kukuruznik, the LMS-901 aircraft took off for the first time

238
Designed to replace the An-2 Kukuruznik, the LMS-901 aircraft took off for the first time

The new light multipurpose aircraft LMS-901 "Baikal", designed to replace the legendary An-2 "Kukuruznik", has begun flight tests. According to the bmpd blog in its telegram channel, the plane took off for the first time.


According to the publication, "Baikal" during one of the runs along the runway, took off from the ground and after flying a few meters again sank onto the runway. As reported, full-fledged flight tests of the aircraft will begin at the end of this month.

It was previously planned that flight tests of the LMS-901 Baikal would begin in October last year, but judging by the publication, they were postponed. The reason for this is not named. Serial production of the aircraft is planned to be launched in 2024, "Baikal" should become a "flying bus" and completely replace the legendary An-2 "Kukuruznik".

The aircraft will be assembled in Komsomolsk-on-Amur (KnAAZ), and not at UZGA in Yekaterinburg. For the production of aircraft near Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation the plant will build a special assembly shop. In fact and legally, this will be a separate production from KnAAZ. According to the plans, the production of LMS-901 aircraft should be 30 units per year, with a further increase to 50.

LMS-901 "Baikal" has a length of 12,2 meters, a height of 3,7 meters and a wingspan of 16,5 meters. Maximum takeoff weight - 4,8 tons, speed - up to 300 km / h. The maximum flight range is 3 thousand km. Seats 9 passengers and can carry up to 2 tons of payload. At present, the General Electric H80-200 engine is installed on it, but in the future it will be replaced by the Russian VK-800S.
238 comments
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  1. Barberry25
    Barberry25 18 January 2022 14: 02
    +32
    now they will tell us that this is very bad .. Although I am glad for the plane
    1. Telakh
      Telakh 18 January 2022 14: 18
      -10
      Well, yes. The release can be adjusted, but where will the demand come from?
      There are no pilots on them. It is forbidden for private pilots to engage in commercial activities, and it is naive to assume that 2,5 airlines will flood the plant with orders.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 18 January 2022 14: 36
        +15
        this is a replacement for the AN-2, so instead of the AN-2 it will fly + a leasing program .. airlines are ready to take them if there is leasing
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 18 January 2022 16: 06
        +24
        Quote: Telakh
        Well, yes. The release can be adjusted, but where will the demand come from?
        There are no pilots on them. It is forbidden for private pilots to engage in commercial activities, and it is naive to assume that 2,5 airlines will flood the plant with orders.

        Everything you say is correct.
        So.
        The plane is created for small aircraft, the pilots of which are private traders all over the world.
        Private passenger transport, private agricultural.
        And we have only the state.
        750 pilots graduate annually in Russia, which is significantly below the requirements of the civil aviation industry. This only applies to airlines.
        Large and large.
        And what about the little ones? Or Siberian?
        Become a pilot, a resident of St. Petersburg, dreaming of a Boeing-787, and then go to live in some villages "Gadyukino", such as in Kudymkar or in Strezhevoy on the AN-2 or its updated analogue?
        It will not be so.
        Although the sky beckons, but not so much as to give up a comfortable life and go to the taiga.

        And the local guys who grew up in the taiga do not "love St. Petersburg all their lives" so much and could easily live as usual, flying around the surrounding villages.
        And it is precisely by giving them the opportunity to obtain a commercial pilot's license for small aircraft that we will be able to really restore both small aircraft and the aviation industry.
        1. Telakh
          Telakh 18 January 2022 16: 49
          +22
          Unfortunately, people who are far from the industry and the economy are unaware of all this. And the well-known division of the Ministry of Transport is guided by the air defense motto: "we do not fly ourselves, and we do not give others"
        2. DenZ
          DenZ 18 January 2022 16: 54
          +1
          And what prevents you from leaving the outback to study as a pilot and return back? Theoretically, nothing. In practice, there are many difficulties. But doable.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 18 January 2022 17: 33
            +13
            Quote: DenZ
            And what prevents you from leaving the outback to study as a pilot and return back? Theoretically, nothing. In practice, there are many difficulties. But doable.


            Why study for 3 years somewhere and come back?
            I know very little about students who return to their villages after 3 years on the side ...
            And even more so, why study for 3 years, if obtaining a CPL license in the USA can take from 5 to 12 months, depending on the presence of mind or the level of stupidity - the applicant?

            It is feasible to fly to the Moon and descend into the Mariana Trench, but is it necessary for a resident of the outback to do this ...
            1. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 19 January 2022 02: 28
              +6
              Quote: SovAr238A
              obtaining a CPL license in the USA can take from 5 to 12 months
              in 12-14 months you can get ATP / ATPL
            2. alexey sidykin
              alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 17: 33
              -7
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Quote: DenZ
              And what prevents you from leaving the outback to study as a pilot and return back? Theoretically, nothing. In practice, there are many difficulties. But doable.


              Why study for 3 years somewhere and come back?
              I know very little about students who return to their villages after 3 years on the side ...
              And even more so, why study for 3 years, if obtaining a CPL license in the USA can take from 5 to 12 months, depending on the presence of mind or the level of stupidity - the applicant?

              It is feasible to fly to the Moon and descend into the Mariana Trench, but is it necessary for a resident of the outback to do this ...

              And without studying, how they fly is well known in the States. There, a plane that fell on a house is as common as an accident on the roads. (Percentage)
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 19 January 2022 23: 12
                +1
                Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                There, a plane that fell on a house is as common as an accident on the roads.

                And what difference does it make to me who crashes into me, a truck, or a corn man?
                1. alexey sidykin
                  alexey sidykin 20 January 2022 13: 04
                  +2
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                  There, a plane that fell on a house is as common as an accident on the roads.

                  And what difference does it make to me who crashes into me, a truck, or a corn man?

                  Now pilots with good flight training fly. And the person to whom I answered offers to trust the control of the aircraft to anyone with minimal training ...
              2. maximaniak
                maximaniak 20 January 2022 08: 37
                +3
                Because there a private jet is as commonplace as a truck.
          2. EMMM
            EMMM 19 January 2022 22: 54
            +1
            Only one thing, having got used to it over the years (or even months) of training, no one will return to Muhosk
          3. YOUR
            YOUR 20 January 2022 10: 07
            +2
            Virtually no schools. After Serdyukovism with his reforms, they were never restored.
        3. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 18 January 2022 18: 07
          +7
          In September, I went to Barnaul (Altai Territory) along the Barnaul-Semipalatinsk highway. There was an airplane on the field near the track. Less than AN-2 twice. Double room. Someone is flying it. It was too late to spray, the field was half empty
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 18 January 2022 18: 22
            +9
            Quote: _Sergey_
            In September, I went to Barnaul (Altai Territory) along the Barnaul-Semipalatinsk highway. There was an airplane on the field near the track. Less than AN-2 twice. Double room. Someone is flying it. It was too late to spray, the field was half empty

            They do not argue.
            Our technical schools / colleges now probably give about 80 pilots annually.
            But this is still not enough.
            we have a vicious circle
            - no fast training system for pilots - no pilots themselves - no demand for aircraft - no availability of places in geography - no flights - no need for aircraft - no aircraft - no pilots

            As of the end of 2020, there were approximately 691 active certified pilots in the United States.
            This number is markedly lower than in 1980, when there was a boom in private aviation - 827 pilots in 071.
            1. _Sergei_
              _Sergei_ 18 January 2022 18: 26
              +1
              I have an acquaintance from Barnaul who flies to his company in our city in a 2-seat helicopter. I didn't study for long. How much I don't know. His helicopter.
              1. YOUR
                YOUR 20 January 2022 10: 11
                +2
                Do not confuse a military or civilian school where they teach at least 3 years (in civilian technology), with take-off and landing courses to obtain a pilot's license. It’s like with the rights of a motorist, you got category A, B, you won’t be able to work on a large dump truck even if you start it and drive it.
            2. Sergey Stepanov_5
              Sergey Stepanov_5 19 January 2022 12: 06
              +2
              Where did the demand come from in the USSR? Type the request "Local airlines" For example, Saratov!
              1. Telakh
                Telakh 19 January 2022 17: 40
                0
                Why compare a command economy with a monopolized capitalist economy?
                The state does not sponsor transport.
                1. this
                  this 19 January 2022 21: 15
                  +1
                  Does not sponsor transport, well, don’t talk nonsense.
            3. Telakh
              Telakh 19 January 2022 17: 35
              +2
              You are confusing concepts. You can unlearn to become an ultralight or a private pilot in 2-3 months. The question costs 500-1000 kilorubles and you disappear from life for the time mentioned. Not everyone will pull it, but if you wish, you can find the money and time.
              The catch is that people do it for themselves, not to earn money. And the AN-2 is multi-ton, which eats 500 liters of kerosene per hour, they didn’t fucking give up. And if they buy it, they do not have the right to provide any commercial services on it with our laws and departments.
              So that leaves only the airlines. Who can recruit ready pilots or train them, but won't do it because the cost of training and the salary of a commercial pilot will never pay off the work on the cornfield.
              So draw your own conclusions.
              1. Alexfly
                Alexfly 19 January 2022 18: 01
                +2
                AN-2 eats 174 kg of gasoline per hour (B-91), a little more for automobiles .. But you can also say 500 liters ...
              2. Yarhann
                Yarhann 19 January 2022 22: 55
                +1
                the cost of training and the pilot's salary is half the trouble - the cost of the bucket itself (leasing), its maintenance and fuel and lubricants. In the case of the An-2, this is a commercial utopia.
        4. Altona
          Altona 19 January 2022 12: 56
          +3
          Quote: SovAr238A
          type in Kudymkar

          ------------------------------------
          In Soviet times, there was a whole helicopter squadron in Kudymkar, by the way. The city does not have a railway connection, there is only a road connection. In general, in Soviet times, enterprises were state-owned, and therefore the state had to take care of the movement of citizens and, in general, large masses of people. Now we are all left to our own devices, therefore there is no development of transport in the country except for automobiles. Commercial logistics for trade and private for individual shipments.
          1. Elturisto
            Elturisto 19 January 2022 16: 49
            +5
            This is because the country is no longer ours, and the real owners do not need us.
        5. Vladimir Mashkov
          Vladimir Mashkov 19 January 2022 16: 06
          0
          Nice plane. And the range and load are simply impressive. I really don't understand why it's so long... smile
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 19 January 2022 16: 13
            -1
            well, in this case, the range is determined by fuel reserves, it’s like driving a car at a gas station for 400 km, but mostly people drive around the city, and here, compared to other TTX projects, they are really impressive
          2. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 17: 36
            +2
            Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
            Nice plane. And the range and load are simply impressive. I really don't understand why it's so long... smile

            So it is for commercial cargo and passenger transportation. For agricultural work, it is not suitable in principle.
          3. YOUR
            YOUR 20 January 2022 10: 30
            0
            This is still worth the American dvigun. They will put ours, if of course they do, it will decrease by at least two times.
        6. Yarhann
          Yarhann 19 January 2022 20: 24
          +1
          you think at the level of a motorcade driver. a pilot in small aviation is a consumable. the whole problem of providing air traffic to the remote places of the Russian Federation is loot that needs to be poured into both the ground infrastructure and the fleet of flying minibuses - all the time. And you constantly need to pour in because all this will never pay off - not a modern aircraft, not ground infrastructure - and even if passengers pay astronomical prices for tickets. All these transportations in the deep and dark places of the Russian Federation are dated from local budgets. That is, the local government pays the air carrier to provide air traffic. At the same time, even now there are not very low prices and not very fresh planes. There is no market there and there is nothing for private traders to do there, all the more so for chauffeurs on gazelles (An2) - they will not fly on regular flights at a loss. And if these are new aircraft on lease, I have no idea at all how the process of repaying the loan will take place.
          So small aviation in deep and dark places is, first of all, loot, subsidies from local budgets for rides, and there is always a chauffeur, this is not a problem
          1. this
            this 19 January 2022 21: 18
            +1
            And hell knows how small it is, but what is big is a complete subsidy, that's for sure.
            1. Yarhann
              Yarhann 19 January 2022 21: 48
              +1
              and in the Russian Federation it will not fly to a friend, a very small passenger flow and long distances. Where it is possible to organize charters, they do it, but regional airlines fly to deep and dark places on cramps 30 years ago exclusively on subsidies
      3. nerd.su
        nerd.su 18 January 2022 23: 37
        +7
        Quote: Telakh
        The release can be adjusted, but where will the demand come from?

        Just in the Far East, there is demand. At least more than in the European part and the Urals. In this regard, it is logical to produce them there, and not in Yekaterinburg.
        Quote: Telakh
        There are no pilots on them. We do not allow private pilots to engage in commercial activities

        So the authorized capital of the LLC is only ten pieces so far. If you already bought a plane, then creating an enterprise is not a problem. The main thing is that licenses and other fees are not rotten.
      4. zenion
        zenion 19 January 2022 17: 08
        0
        So the planes will be ordered by an alien race. They will replace the motor with something magnetic, and the fields will be sprayed with something similar.
        1. alexey sidykin
          alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 17: 39
          +1
          Quote: zenion
          So the planes will be ordered by an alien race. They will replace the motor with something magnetic, and the fields will be sprayed with something similar.

          This plane is not suitable for agricultural work from the word at all. Exclusively milking passenger... and freight.
          1. zenion
            zenion 19 January 2022 17: 41
            0
            The cymbals are good for nothing too, but this one has wings. Not from sparrows to cling to them.
            1. alexey sidykin
              alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 18: 22
              +2
              Quote: zenion
              The cymbals are good for nothing too, but this one has wings. Not from sparrows to cling to them.

              Too much speed. Anushka was good because she flew slowly. And this one. Do not scatter fertilizer or spray.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 18 January 2022 14: 31
      +10
      Quote: Barberry25
      now they will tell us that this is very bad .. Although I am glad for the plane

      No, not bad. For a long time.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 18 January 2022 20: 12
        -9
        this is one of the steps
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 18 January 2022 21: 17
          +3
          Quote: Barberry25
          this is one of the steps

          Shaw, again? belay
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 18 January 2022 21: 22
            -9
            well, like "show first, then let them test it, then let them start producing, why is it taking so long, why is the nameplate on it not beautiful and vaapsche", this is Russia, in principle, people are not happy with us)
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 18 January 2022 21: 26
              +9
              Not in this case. The fact that the AN-2 was outdated was already clear in the 90s. An ordinary turboprop aircraft "give birth" for 30 years, this is too much. And he is still only on trial, before the series, hell knows when it comes.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 18 January 2022 21: 33
                -6
                but could they have given birth in the 90s? Or at the beginning of the XNUMXs? there were tenth chances, but butting with the West began, which resulted in the absence of engines, remember, any project used to be based on a Western engine, and now on ours, which are finishing tests, the maximum when western engine is used it is at the initial stage for running-in or start of production
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 18 January 2022 21: 58
                  +8
                  Excuse me, but justifying the lack of an engine for 20 years is somehow stupid. And even 10. This is not the latest technology, if not yesterday, then today's evening.
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 18 January 2022 23: 37
                    -1
                    to make an engine, you need to invest and time, only cats will give birth quickly and the engine is being brought to mind right now, so it’s better to have what you have than to have nothing.
                2. Serg Kam
                  Serg Kam 19 January 2022 01: 13
                  +18
                  but could they have given birth in the 90s? or at the beginning of the XNUMXs? there were tenth chances

                  You know perfectly well that there were planes.
                  Single engine - Gzhel. Aircraft early 200s
                  And flew, and had a certificate of airworthiness. But neither in the XNUMXs nor in the tenths did they begin to produce it.
                  Twin-engine Rysachok - Putin, having flown on it, said that it was necessary to produce! Manturov, it seems, was talking about an order of 300 units - and where is that order?
                  There is a possibility that Baikal will repeat the fate of Gzhel and Rysachka - they will produce several copies, write to "made by us" and close the project.
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 19 January 2022 02: 20
                    -4
                    well, about whether they will produce it or not, we'll see, but about previous models everything is simple - in order to take a car, you need leasing and the correct selection of performance characteristics, so making a 9-seat aircraft with two engines is at least unprofitable, so maybe VovVovych and said that "you need to take ", but companies will not take the goods, realizing it is not profitable, in general, I see no reason to argue further, time will tell
                  2. aglet
                    aglet 19 January 2022 08: 27
                    +8
                    "They'll write to 'made by us' and close the project."
                    will surely close. due to lack of demand. and the price, like the Boeing will
                3. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 19 January 2022 23: 29
                  0
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  but could they give birth in the 90s? Or at the beginning of the XNUMXs?

                  Just at the beginning of the 2s, there was a government decree to replace the AN-XNUMX. So no need to carry a blizzard.
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 20 January 2022 10: 24
                    0
                    1) the decree is not exactly enforceable in the same year
                    2) at the beginning of the XNUMXs, they signed a bunch of decrees, but what's the point?
                    3) the bulk of the AN-2 is owned by private owners, and even then they didn’t have money, and they began to use the leasing scheme quite recently. In general, there’s no point in arguing about what happened before, we’ll wait 2 years and find out how the epic with Baikal will end- either a series or production was curtailed, but in fact the car is worthy in terms of performance characteristics and better than previous options such as a trotter of the same
              2. vkfriendly
                vkfriendly 19 January 2022 08: 08
                -2
                The AN-2 is not outdated ... in Canada, the DHC-2 Beaver flew in 1947 and still flies, but ours is simply not economically feasible in principle, like almost all the equipment created in the USSR, no one considered fuel efficiency and operating costs.
                1. alexey sidykin
                  alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 17: 41
                  +1
                  Quote: vkfriendly
                  The AN-2 is not outdated ... in Canada, the DHC-2 Beaver flew in 1947 and still flies, but ours is simply not economically feasible in principle, like almost all the equipment created in the USSR, no one considered fuel efficiency and operating costs.

                  It’s just that we haven’t been producing AN 2 since the 70s ...
                  1. vkfriendly
                    vkfriendly 21 January 2022 09: 45
                    0
                    Yeah.. seriously? What does anyone think they make?
                  2. alexey sidykin
                    alexey sidykin 21 January 2022 14: 10
                    -1
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    Quote: vkfriendly
                    The AN-2 is not outdated ... in Canada, the DHC-2 Beaver flew in 1947 and still flies, but ours is simply not economically feasible in principle, like almost all the equipment created in the USSR, no one considered fuel efficiency and operating costs.

                    It’s just that we haven’t been producing AN 2 since the 70s ...

                    Well ... then let's compare the operating costs of the Zhiguli-seven and Lada-Grants ...
              3. this
                this 19 January 2022 21: 21
                +1
                For 30 years, our country has almost been born back, but now such projects are not appearing, it will be needed, but it will be, because. there is a program for the development of small airfields, will fly.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 19 January 2022 22: 14
                  -1
                  Quote: tohoto
                  , but now even not such projects appear, it will be needed, but it will be, because. there is a program for the development of small airfields, will fly.

                  Blessed is he who believes!
                  1. this
                    this 20 January 2022 07: 59
                    0
                    Airfields are already being built for this.
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 19 January 2022 23: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: tohoto
                  small airfield development program

                  What kind of program is this? There are fewer airfields throughout the Russian Federation than in Alaska alone. Have you been confused with Chinese programs by chance?
    3. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 19 January 2022 16: 05
      0
      Quote: Barberry25
      now they will tell us that this is very bad .. Although I am glad for the plane

      Actually, at this level, the barn will come off the ground. Achievement full atas, like - "had a good meal." There is only one question - how much? How much does it cost? An 2 with good flight performance was cheap. Its analogue is needed only and exclusively if it is also inexpensive. Otherwise it all makes absolutely no sense and is just a waste of money.
    4. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 17: 30
      +1
      Quote: Barberry25
      now they will tell us that this is very bad .. Although I am glad for the plane

      One question to the manufacturers of hefty hefty bast shoes on wheels dressed ...
    5. Mikle
      Mikle 20 January 2022 12: 29
      0
      There is no workshop, no engine, the output is 2.5 pieces per month. How much will it cost? Like a Boeing 737 or is it a little cheaper?
  2. Doccor18
    Doccor18 18 January 2022 14: 03
    +23
    Serial production of the aircraft is planned to be launched in 2024, "Baikal" should become a "flying bus" and completely replace the legendary An-2 "Kukuruznik".

    The significance of such a machine for the expanses of Russia is difficult to overestimate ...
    According to plans, the production of LMS-901 aircraft should be 30 units per year, with a further increase to 50

    The need for them is in the hundreds...
    1. Telakh
      Telakh 18 January 2022 14: 25
      -6
      The need of the economy - yes!
      The need of individuals - no. Because you can't legally work for them.
      The need of commercial operators is highly doubtful. It is more profitable to organize charters to Antalya.
    2. VicktorVR
      VicktorVR 18 January 2022 15: 09
      +27
      Yes, some kind of strange serial production.
      It is necessary to produce at least 30-50 cars per month, then production has a chance to be profitable
      30-50 per year, that's 3-4 per month.
      This is the level of collective farm workshops, not a factory.
    3. Genry
      Genry 18 January 2022 15: 50
      +9
      Quote: Doccor18
      The need for them is in the hundreds...

      In year?
      They produce as much as can be sold in a year.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 18 January 2022 17: 13
        +1
        Quote: Genry
        Quote: Doccor18
        The need for them is in the hundreds...

        In year?
        They produce as much as can be sold in a year.

        Total.
      2. 72jora72
        72jora72 20 January 2022 14: 08
        0
        According to the aviation register of the state of Alaska, there are about 9 aircraft in its territory..........
    4. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 18 January 2022 16: 07
      +4
      Quote: Doccor18
      Serial production of the aircraft is planned to be launched in 2024, "Baikal" should become a "flying bus" and completely replace the legendary An-2 "Kukuruznik".

      The significance of such a machine for the expanses of Russia is difficult to overestimate ...
      According to plans, the production of LMS-901 aircraft should be 30 units per year, with a further increase to 50

      The need for them is in the hundreds...


      Who will pilot these hundreds?
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 18 January 2022 17: 14
        +4
        Quote: SovAr238A
        Who will pilot these hundreds?

        Pilots.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 18 January 2022 17: 35
          +3
          Quote: Doccor18
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Who will pilot these hundreds?

          Pilots.


          Where will you take them?
          We have an annual shortage of about 300-500 pilots ...
          Not enough every year.

          Will you draw?
          Even Buguruslan - teaches "maize" for 3 years ...
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 18 January 2022 18: 24
            +6
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Where will you take them?

            I'll take? Are you kidding?
            Who prevents the same Boguruslan from doubling the output? 90 people, it's not even funny, but sad...
            The Federal Air Transport Agency (FAVT), based on its analysis of the development of the industry, predicts that the need for civil aviation pilots in Russia in the period up to 2024 will be 850 people per year. At the same time, according to this Federal body, the enrollment of cadets in all flight universities and schools amounted to 2017 cadets in 923, 2018 cadets in 1022, and 2019 people in 956.

            What is preventing you from increasing the number of places in flight schools? Flying problems. Why these problems? Problems with lack of instructors. Where? Because of the disparate salaries of instructors and first class pilots in major airlines. So we've arrived... Increase the salaries of flight instructors by several times and the problems will begin to disappear.
            The military did it, all you need is the desire and control of those in power
            October 2, 2017, AEX.RU - The Russian Aerospace Forces have sharply increased the volume of training of the flight crew. In the next five years, higher military educational institutions will graduate hundreds of pilots annually. At the same time, the military promise to increase the intensity of flight training by one and a half times. The need for pilots has increased due to the formation of new units and the purchase of new aircraft. This is reported by the newspaper "Izvestia".
  3. viktortarianik
    viktortarianik 18 January 2022 14: 03
    +8
    It's a shame. So long and so little. But it is so needed!
  4. the most important
    the most important 18 January 2022 14: 04
    +11
    Too small for a bus. "Scooter" flying or soon flying.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 18 January 2022 14: 10
      +6
      Quote: the most important
      Too small for a bus. "Scooter" flying or soon flying

      According to the latest laws, you cannot carry more than 9 passengers on a single-engine aircraft. Although the carrying capacity is enough for 15.
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 18 January 2022 14: 14
      +4
      An-2 more or what? Approximately the same performance characteristics are needed, of course, adjusted for modern materials.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 18 January 2022 14: 37
        +3
        it is 2 times larger in mass and twice as worse in performance characteristics
      2. DymOk_v_dYmke
        DymOk_v_dYmke 18 January 2022 14: 43
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        An-2 more or what?

        12 passengers. hi
        1. Vladimir Borodin
          Vladimir Borodin 18 January 2022 17: 25
          +4
          and 1200kg of cargo
    3. yuriy55
      yuriy55 18 January 2022 14: 29
      +8
      Quote: the most important
      Too small for a bus. "Scooter" flying or soon flying.

      Scooter or whatever - you can compare:

      1. Dikson
        Dikson 18 January 2022 15: 27
        +9
        Well, how to carry a cow in this, or five sheep ?! The salon is narrow .. again - on short lines, luggage is often non-standard .. and here .. shelves for hand luggage .. is it a VIP cabin or a workhorse?
        1. ycuce234-san
          ycuce234-san 18 January 2022 17: 30
          -2
          For cargo, it is possible to provide for a cargo glider, unmanned and controlled from the cab via cable. This is the best and most modern solution.
          Well, or even make separate serial unmanned cargo aircraft - then the seriality of the units will be higher.
          There is no need to copy old solutions - now there are new good opportunities.
          1. Grits
            Grits 19 January 2022 13: 27
            +3
            Quote: ycuce234-san
            For cargo, it is possible to provide for a cargo glider, unmanned and controlled from the cab via cable. This is the best and most modern solution.
            Well, or even make separate serial unmanned cargo aircraft - then the seriality of the units will be higher.

            Looks like everyone is obsessed with drones
            1. ycuce234-san
              ycuce234-san 19 January 2022 15: 10
              -3
              Technology has just matured to be applied in the economy and ultralight air trucks are already being exploited little by little on an experimental basis. Flying with a goat and with a suitcase in an embrace is somehow not very good.
        2. DymOk_v_dYmke
          DymOk_v_dYmke 18 January 2022 18: 05
          +3
          Quote: Dikson
          shelves for hand luggage .. is it a VIP lounge or a workhorse?

          This is for the village VIPs.
        3. alexey sidykin
          alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 17: 45
          +1
          Quote: Dikson
          Well, how to carry a cow in this, or five sheep ?! The salon is narrow .. again - on short lines, luggage is often non-standard .. and here .. shelves for hand luggage .. is it a VIP cabin or a workhorse?

          No, this is a flying "minibus" just...
      2. DymOk_v_dYmke
        DymOk_v_dYmke 18 January 2022 18: 10
        +2
        Quote: yuriy55
        Scooter or whatever - you can compare:

        It was also possible to fly in the AN-2 equipped with chairs.
        Only there was no rosy-cheeked inner lining that no one needed. hi
        1. 26rus
          26rus 18 January 2022 21: 02
          +3
          Both armchairs and upholstery with insulation are equipped without problems, it would be the desire of the customer (and he has money, respectively, wink ). We even had to equip a kind of VIP salon for the local governor, for a long time, really.
      3. Tu154m
        Tu154m 19 January 2022 04: 17
        +6
        Let's be objective. Salon and in An-2 (passenger version) was with chairs. And you can order a VIP lounge. There would be a desire.
        1. Tu154m
          Tu154m 19 January 2022 04: 32
          +1
          https://russianplanes.net/images/to148000/147249.jpg
      4. avia12005
        avia12005 19 January 2022 07: 01
        +3
        The height of the cabin in this miracle is just over 160 cm. It’s scary to imagine how harsh Siberian men 190 or more tall and weighing under 100 kg will fit in there ....
        1. alexey sidykin
          alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 17: 47
          +2
          Quote: avia12005
          The height of the cabin in this miracle is just over 160 cm. It’s scary to imagine how harsh Siberian men 190 or more tall and weighing under 100 kg will fit in there ....

          And how are they placed in minibuses? It's the same here.
        2. Cat Kuzya
          Cat Kuzya 19 January 2022 20: 52
          0
          Judging by the height of the cabin, the pepelats will carry Putin and Medvedev or "Shuvalov's dogs." wink
    4. donavi49
      donavi49 18 January 2022 14: 38
      +7
      Regulator requirements 9 people. It's international. If more, then there is a completely different certification, requirements for control and maintenance.
      No, you can accept your own requirements and make at least a 30-seat aircraft under the standards of small aviation, but then there will be no insurance.
      1. Genry
        Genry 18 January 2022 16: 07
        +6
        Quote: donavi49
        Regulator requirements 9 people. It's international. If more then there is a completely different certification, requirements for control and maintenance.

        Two engines are already required and you get the L-410.
      2. KERMET
        KERMET 19 January 2022 11: 05
        0
        I understand these are international requirements? In general, before designing something, economists must calculate how many passengers will be profitable, and even for this they need their own internal requirements, otherwise the unprofitable aircraft will remain piece
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 19 January 2022 11: 31
          +1
          So, does it make more sense? This niche is up to 9 passengers. Next 10-19 it already has L-410 produced at UZGA.
    5. sergand53
      sergand53 18 January 2022 16: 44
      +4
      I agree! There are 2 passengers in An-12 on folding "basins" + cargo.
  5. Maluck
    Maluck 18 January 2022 14: 06
    +5
    According to the plans, the production of LMS-901 aircraft should be 30 units per year, with a further increase to 50.

    Just a ridiculous amount... and that's stated, not factual.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 18 January 2022 14: 35
      +12
      Well, if you pay. Let me remind you that the most successful, advanced and modern aircraft in this class, in the rich USA and around the world, has barely broken through 2007 sides since 300.

      And this is with their small aircraft market, small airlines, various humanitarian deliveries in Africa and even government orders.



      1. Looking for
        Looking for 18 January 2022 18: 01
        +3
        the fact is that in the United States supply exceeds demand. The United States is oversaturated with light aircraft.
    2. Genry
      Genry 18 January 2022 15: 46
      +1
      Order and they will sell you the 31st and 32nd, or how much ....
  6. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 18 January 2022 14: 06
    +6
    The news is good. God forbid our wolf calf to eat. "Annushka" will be replaced because of its mass character, unpretentiousness and cheapness, oh, how not easy it will be ....
    1. DymOk_v_dYmke
      DymOk_v_dYmke 18 January 2022 14: 46
      +11
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      "Annushka" will be replaced because of its mass character, unpretentiousness and cheapness, oh, how not easy it will be ...

      Also because of the destruction of airports at the district level.
  7. mark1
    mark1 18 January 2022 14: 10
    +5
    At present, the General Electric H80-200 engine is installed on it, but in the future it will be replaced by the Russian VK-800S.

    Well, what did Altius fly on? It turns out either RED or "Walter", and VK-800 not earlier than 24/25.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 18 January 2022 14: 56
      +5
      RED piston .... and now they are adapting AURUS 4,4 in 600hp in Novosibirsk. , and here 800ls. True, there are 12 more cylinders 6,6 liters in 800 hp in the range. and 2,2 in 240ls
      1. mark1
        mark1 18 January 2022 15: 08
        +3
        RED went according to the original project, and they switched to the theater just because of the difficulties with localization (well, maybe also because of something else). it got to the point that the VK-800 undertook to "finish" the UZGA (naturally luring the designers), so it seems that he wished for reality, announced that "everything is ready" ... now it turns out that not everything is ready yet.
        By the way, your idea of ​​replacing two incomprehensible engines with one available (based on TV7-117) is quite sound, why it didn’t occur to our venerable designers at the beginning of the design is not clear.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 18 January 2022 16: 25
          +4
          In general, initially it was necessary to do so .... the craving for these diesel engines is incomprehensible ... .. one theater
          1. mark1
            mark1 18 January 2022 16: 57
            +2
            Quote: Zaurbek
            the craving for these diesels is incomprehensible ... ..

            Until Raikhlin left for Germany, he was flooded with a nightingale, knocked out money, organized a consortium, and so they were led by a crane in the sky, forgetting about all the previous secular experience in sucking in "promising" products. VK-800 from the same opera - of course they will finish it, no doubt, but 20 years ...
          2. this
            this 19 January 2022 21: 28
            +1
            Piston engines are more economical on such aircraft.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 20 January 2022 11: 03
              0
              Everything has been calculated there for a long time .... progress is being made and (in terms of consumption and efficiency) turbojet engines are advancing on theater engines, and theater engines are advancing on piston engines ..... and Electric ones are starting to step on piston engines too ...... Piston engines still have a rather narrow segment from 50-500ls .... and remoteness from the service (ICE is easier to repair)
  8. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 18 January 2022 14: 12
    +1
    Is it made of composites? Or iron?
    1. Two
      Two 18 January 2022 14: 24
      +5
      Judging by the cost - one-piece, made of silver ... On the go!
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 18 January 2022 14: 58
        +4
        Today, they don’t work in sharashkas and receive loans in comm banks ....... and aluminum stands, as if behind a hillock and theater of operations from there and Honeywell avionics ... all other things being equal in the West, loans are cheaper.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 18 January 2022 14: 31
      +8
      Almost entirely aluminum. This is the most oak and cheap board. They couldn't even fit the nose strut into the budget.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 18 January 2022 14: 53
        +5
        Savings on a folding chassis?
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 18 January 2022 15: 31
          +13
          No, the chassis does not fold. Savings on the basic scheme.

          For example, Kodiak.


          Caravan


          Well, etc. The nose strut provides comfort in the cabin on the ground, dramatically reduces the risk of nose-overs, and makes it easier to control while jogging.

          LMS-901 uses a different scheme, much more archaic and generally cheap, with a tail strut. This is good nose-over, especially on unpaved strips, you caught a bump with a wheel at the moment of braking and you are already plowing the strip with a propeller. It is also discomfort for passengers at the stage of seating, jogging, takeoff and landing. Also, these are serious restrictions on outboard equipment, that is, we cut the conditional tie-down trunk (in the photo above, Kodiak and Caravan have them) by a third, or even by half. Well, in conclusion, so-so review on taxiing, because there is a huge dead zone along the course.
      2. KJIETyc
        KJIETyc 18 January 2022 15: 49
        +3
        You wrote above about the most successful aircraft, was there also not enough budget for racks?) From my sofa, it seems to me that these maize-2s should be as simple as possible to operate and repair, so that some Mizandari comrade could fix it in the barn.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 18 January 2022 16: 10
          +14
          1) Even those requirements for 9 people do not allow self-repair for who knows what. That is a serious violation.
          2) Well, when was the An-2 released? Deliberately refusing to progress is stupid. Moreover, the tail strut scheme has become the cause of mass accidents (hooding and taxiing accidents).



          3) Again, before there weren’t really supermacretes with full shelves, and flights cost a penny, though without alternatives. Now the standards of comfort are completely different. Initially, making a project cattle truck, saving on matches is pretty stupid.
        2. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 20 January 2022 11: 05
          0
          In fact, they could have put a nose strut on AN2 .... for example, there was Li2 with a tail ... then IL14 with a bow.
    3. shikin
      shikin 18 January 2022 22: 42
      0
      Yep, cast iron.
  9. sledak
    sledak 18 January 2022 14: 14
    +5
    Quote: the most important
    Too small for a bus. "Scooter" flying or soon flying.

    In terms of capacity, less minibuses come out, so it’s exactly oh how far to the bus.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 18 January 2022 14: 54
      +4
      For airplanes, this is solved by inserting a segment later ... if necessary. And so there is L410 with two such theaters
  10. yuriy55
    yuriy55 18 January 2022 14: 16
    +4
    The characteristics are very good. Let's wait for the tests and results of operation.
    I'll point out two downsides:
    It is currently powered by a General Electric H80-200 engine.

    According to the plans, the production of LMS-901 aircraft should be 30 units per year, with a further increase to 50.

    It used to be:
    1949 — 1952 - at the aircraft factory number 473 in Kiev, produced 185 machines.
    1953 — 1963 - at the aircraft factory number 473 in Kiev, produced 3164 machines.
    1959-2002 - at the WSK PZL-Mielec [en] aircraft factory in Poland, 11 aircraft were produced.
    1966-1971 - at the Dolgoprudnoy Machine-Building Plant (Dolgoprudny, Moscow Region), 506 An-2M modification cars were produced.
    1956-1968 - at the aircraft factory No. 320 in Nanchang (now NAMC - Nanhang Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation) in China, 727 aircraft were produced under the name 安 -2 ("Fong Shu-2").
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 20 January 2022 11: 05
      0
      It's all left over from a more advanced civilization...
      1. your1970
        your1970 21 January 2022 16: 10
        0
        Quote: Zaurbek
        It's all left over from a more advanced civilization...

        This is all that remains from those times - when a pilot, even in theory, could not take and leave for China or Europe ... and become a pilot there ...
        And the ticket cost 4 rubles to Saratov on the L410 ...
        Will we put on a chain? Or pay 300 salaries? How much will the ticket cost then?
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 22 January 2022 10: 14
          0
          People generally need to pay .... And not just pilots... And change the rules of flight for light aircraft…. And for the first time to introduce duty-free import of cars like Tsesna ....
          1. your1970
            your1970 22 January 2022 20: 31
            0
            Quote: Zaurbek
            And for the first time to introduce duty-free import of cars like Tsesna ....

            Nuda nuda .... otherwise the majors are bored in Muskva in traffic jams ....

            Or you SERIOUSLY think that in the provinces someone with big(!!!!) money (training + the plane itself + maintenance + airfield + insurance + a bunch of other nuances) will buy Tsesna and will tax around the region with a price tag of 500 rubles one way ????
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 24 January 2022 21: 38
              0
              There was a review on TV in comparison with Canada and the USA and Northern Europe and the Russian Federation ..... such flights. The comparison is not in our favor.
              1. your1970
                your1970 25 January 2022 00: 14
                0
                Quote: Zaurbek
                The comparison is not in our favor.
                and?
                Here we have an abyss (at the global level !!) of homeowners (about 94%), and now a juicy question - how many of them have insured their homes against fire / flooding?
                And we are surprised to find out - 6(SIX!!!)%.... Your own housing, not a neighbor's ...
                Do you understand the difference, for example, with the USA - where 98% of real estate is insured?
                Where tomorrow I crashed on Tsesna, I paid out insurance for damage to the victims and fly further - only the tariff will be steeper with the insurance ....

                And our victims will run around the courts - because there is no insurance, no liability, no property, nothing ....
                Doubt? Look at our long-distance transportation...

                No one in our country wants to answer for anything -
                ready to row money with a shovel - no answer ....
            2. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 25 January 2022 17: 02
              0
              If this is the case in other countries, then we can do the same here.
              1. your1970
                your1970 25 January 2022 17: 51
                0
                Quote: Zaurbek
                If this is the case in other countries, then we can do the same here.

                How?
                All over the world, non-payment of taxes is a crime - we have heroism "The state has deceived! The eagle!!" I counted out of sports interest now - on my street 12 people would have sat down for non-payment of taxes over 25 years in ANY country in the world.
                About your insurance own houses wrote above.

                Do you seriously believe that someone will invest a bunch of dough with a penny return?
                When the USSR transferred money from one pocket to another - it was possible. Now - no
                1. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek 26 January 2022 14: 14
                  0
                  Wait ... and it will get to us. Now you can't really mess with taxes. They don't plant, of course.
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 27 January 2022 10: 26
                    0
                    Quote: Zaurbek
                    Wait ... and it will get to us. Now you can't really mess with taxes. They don't plant, of course.

                    And they don't charge...
                    "There is nothing because there is nothing ....."
                    Kamaz for the deceased in the 05 region, an apartment in Bulgaria on the sea for the mother-in-law ...
                    Himself legally unemployed beggar and unemployed (since 1993). Receives subsidies as a low-income ...
                    1. Zaurbek
                      Zaurbek 27 January 2022 11: 03
                      0
                      Personally, I was charged ...... debts hung from 2008 on taxes. Not particularly touched. Since 2019, we squeezed everything we can.......
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 27 January 2022 11: 50
                        0
                        We have 38 departments left for 5 districts, 2 of them in the regional center. The September reduction ...
                        Figs, now they can go somewhere alive ...
                      2. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 27 January 2022 11: 53
                        0
                        A lot of things are being automated now ..... cash is shrinking, cash payments too. Mutual settlements - clearing settlements ..... many violations are detected by the computer. It's like with the traffic police and cameras on the roads. The camera does not take bribes, and does not ask for vacation. Here they are shortening.
                      3. your1970
                        your1970 27 January 2022 12: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        cash is shrinking, cash payments too.

                        We have practically no stores left with terminals - only cash or transfer ....
                        They showed a turnover of 1-2-3 million per year - but they began to work with terminals and banks began to show their turnover - 1-2-3 million ... per month!!! Well, that's all - figs now where you pay with a card - only networks ...
                        Who will catch these with cash now? That's right - nobody.
                      4. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 27 January 2022 12: 31
                        0
                        In the next two years, the tax system for stores will be changed .... it will be like an LLC .... income minus expenses .....
                        And, I think, "freebie", with translations, is also going to the finish line.
  11. mark1
    mark1 18 January 2022 14: 17
    +2
    The pre-order for TVS-2DT was 200 pieces (including from behind the hillock - zarEzali ..)
    We will see ...
    1. 26rus
      26rus 18 January 2022 20: 46
      +1
      Quote: mark1
      The pre-order for TVS-2DT was 200 pieces (including from behind the hillock - zarEzali ..)
      We will see ...
      . Then cut the sturgeon ... by one zero. At TVS-2DTS, there was a preliminary agreement on the construction in Ulan-Ude of an experimental batch of 20 aircraft for the Yakutsk airline, and only then, if anything ... maybe ... But when they calculated the cost of this composite pepelats with an imported engine and avionics, they shed tears wassat .
      1. mark1
        mark1 18 January 2022 21: 17
        +1
        Quote: 26rus
        Then cut the sturgeon ... by one zero.

        - For 2021-2025, documents have already been signed for the production of 200 aircraft for civil aviation on the routes of Yakutia. 6 aircraft were requested by the Mongolian company. High interest is shown by the southern countries - we are talking about the acquisition of 50 to 80 aircraft. Our representatives also held talks in Malaysia and Indonesia,” Barsuk added.

        Quote: 26rus
        But when they calculated the cost of this composite pepelats with an imported engine and avionics, they shed a tear

        The head of SibNIA noted that the aircraft has a lot of foreign-made components: an American engine and avionics, Italian composites. If the foreign policy situation becomes more complicated, then it will be possible to find domestic analogues for them, but this will lead to a slight increase in the mass of the aircraft, an increase in fuel consumption, and it will be necessary to change the training of the flight crew. However, this will not affect the timing of its production. — Now we are discussing with domestic aircraft builders a number of issues related to the production of composite materials. We still have an agreement on the localization of engine production in Russia. According to the agreement, it will be possible to start it when we purchase 40 engines. Today, about 30 have been purchased for the remotorization of the An-2 and the development of fuel assemblies,” says Barsuk.

        The cost of TVS-2DTS (150-180 million rubles) is indicated with imported components and materials, and the cost of LMS-901 (100-120 million rubles) for the imported version, that is, for what there are no places yet and how it will actually be not known. wassat
        1. 26rus
          26rus 18 January 2022 21: 50
          +1
          Yeah ... The plane, or rather a prototype, in a single copy, has not yet been certified by anyone, has not been tested or operated anywhere, and we already have 200 aircraft for ourselves and also abroad right now ... Isn’t it funny to ourselves?
          1. mark1
            mark1 18 January 2022 21: 54
            -1
            According to LMS, it’s even more vague and incomprehensible, and everyone is puffing with boiling water ... laugh too ...
            1. 26rus
              26rus 18 January 2022 22: 32
              0
              Well, it doesn't excite me either.
              1. mark1
                mark1 18 January 2022 23: 01
                0
                Yes, they would both fit in a niche, each in its own corner. TVS is the development of new technologies for small aircraft, we must give it a chance.
  12. zloybond
    zloybond 18 January 2022 14: 40
    +3
    It's so nice that at last it even got off the ground .... But with an American engine - edrit-madrid fool twenty five again!
    1. Genry
      Genry 18 January 2022 16: 17
      +2
      Quote: zloybond
      But with an American engine - Edrit-Madrid

      In the beginning, everything is done "from what was" ...
      Then the necessary production is pulled up.
      There will be an engine and a bathhouse with girls - for your money, any whim.
      1. Alf
        Alf 18 January 2022 18: 22
        +5
        Quote: Genry
        Quote: zloybond
        But with an American engine - Edrit-Madrid

        In the beginning, everything is done "from what was" ...
        Then the necessary production is pulled up.
        There will be an engine and a bathhouse with girls - for your money, any whim.

        The company wants to buy this plane.
        Sanctions are immediately activated and from there they say, fuck you, not engines.
        The company, what should we do, we wanted to buy it?
        Manufacturer-Wait a couple of years, we will remake it on VK.
        Company-Go to hell with your plane, we'll buy another Cessna.
        After a couple of years, VC is brought to mind.
        Manufacturer - We are ready to offer LMS-901 with a Russian motor.
        Buyers-And we have already bought Cessnas.
        The manufacturer is in a deep anus... There are no orders, no money, creditors are knocking on the gate...
  13. Zomanus
    Zomanus 18 January 2022 14: 41
    +1
    Great news. About the engine, of course, it is alarming. But we hope. that our engine will stand on serial machines. And most importantly, that it could work on any fuel, including coal and wood chips.))) It's a joke.
  14. sen
    sen 18 January 2022 14: 42
    +9
    "Baikal" should not be considered a completely new machine. During its development, the groundwork for the T-101 Grach aircraft (chief designer Evgeny Grunin) was used.
    Another photo.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 January 2022 17: 53
      -3
      Baikal is one fig new in relation to the ancient An 2.
  15. Alexey Lamonov
    Alexey Lamonov 18 January 2022 14: 46
    +5
    And "corn" is what's bad. Upgrade, replace avionics, newer engines, do tuning. Him to carry people and goods over short distances. Reliability is what distinguished the AN-2.
    1. Serg Kam
      Serg Kam 19 January 2022 01: 29
      +1
      And "corn" is what's bad. Upgrade, replace avionics, newer engines

      You haven't come up with anything new.
      The An-2 remotorization program was
      https://sibnia.ru/projects/

      But it failed successfully - both thanks to the Ukrainian Academy of Sciences (they must give permission), and thanks to the overprice - it was cheaper for airlines to buy another used aircraft, such as a caravan.
  16. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 18 January 2022 14: 50
    0
    "For the production of aircraft near the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft plant, a special assembly shop will be built" ///
    ---
    Su-57 technologies will be transferred to the new maize! good
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 18 January 2022 18: 53
      +6
      Well, if not vice versa wassat
  17. Osipov9391
    Osipov9391 18 January 2022 14: 51
    +5
    Now the most acute problem for the production of any aircraft is not only engines, but also the lack of an element base for avionics.
    Now in the Su-35S or Su-34 avionics, for example, the share of imported microcircuits and components reaches 65% and more. And apparently we will not receive these microcircuits soon.
    Yes, and this is unreliable - at any moment "bookmarks" can work and then any device will turn into a heap of metal.

    A light transport aircraft is certainly needed. Completely domestic. Although some of their functions have now been shifted to medium and heavy helicopters such as the Mi-8 and Mi-26, what else is in quantity and is being produced.
    1. Genry
      Genry 18 January 2022 16: 22
      -1
      Quote: Osipov9391
      Now in the Su-35S or Su-34 avionics, for example, the share of imported microcircuits and components reaches 65% and more.

      Where is the droushka?
      The military has always had its own electronics.
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 18 January 2022 17: 03
        +10
        Quote: Genry
        Quote: Osipov9391
        Now in the Su-35S or Su-34 avionics, for example, the share of imported microcircuits and components reaches 65% and more.

        Where is the droushka?
        The military has always had its own electronics.


        Do you want to break the pattern?
        Is reality real?

        This is not the first time in the course of litigation details are revealed about the progress of the ROC on the creation of advanced weapons. In cases No. A56-8333 / 2020 and A56-46672 / 2021, one of the reasons for the postponement of flight tests of the 15A28 missile of the Sarmat missile system, also referred to under the codes “product 001” and “topic 001”, is indicated. Recall that despite numerous statements by the highest officials, flight tests of this complex have not yet begun. The culprits were the backwardness of the domestic element base and Western sanctions.
        It follows from the materials of the cases that the developer of the control system "Sarmat" is JSC "NPO Automation named after Academician N.A. Semikhatov" (hereinafter NPAA). In turn, NPAA ordered JSC "Research Institute of Command Instruments" (hereinafter referred to as NII KP) to perform R&D for the manufacture of a complex of command instruments (KKP) and an angular velocity sensor unit (BDUS), for which the parties entered into agreement No. 2/2-1030 -15/787/Yur.765 of 06.02.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX.

        This contract is divided into 12 stages, stages No. 1,3,5,7,9,11 provide for the manufacture and supply of CCP; Nos. 2,4,6,8,10,12 - manufacture and supply of BDUS. Thus, the NII KP was supposed to manufacture and supply 6 sets of KKP and BDUS for missiles for flight tests (LI products). Some initial deadlines are mentioned:
        for stage 5 - 31.12.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX;
        for stage 6 - 31.12.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX;
        for stage 7 - 31.03.2017/XNUMX/XNUMX;
        for stage 8 - 31.03.2017/XNUMX/XNUMX;
        for stage 9 - 30.06.2017/XNUMX/XNUMX;
        for stage 10 - 30.06.2017/XNUMX/XNUMX.

        The initial deadlines for the delivery of the stages were repeatedly disrupted and postponed by additional agreements to the contract. So, by additional agreement No. 14 dated April 24.04.2019, 5, the deadline for the completion of the 2019th stage was postponed to August 6, the deadline for the completion of the 2019th stage was postponed to September 5, and these deadlines were also disrupted - the shipment of the CCP for the 16.11.2019th stage occurred on 5/12.04.2020/6, but the CCP was delivered did not pass the entrance control in NPAA and was not accepted by them. The cases mention a lot of letters, acts of research and conclusions about the need to finalize and restore the CCP. As a result, NII KP fulfilled its obligations under the 18th stage only on 03.02.2020/26.02.2020/11, and the deadline for the 15.11.2020th stage was once again postponed by an additional agreement No. XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

        At the time of the trials, NII KP manufactured 3 sets of command devices for the assembly of LI products No. 1,2,3 (stages No. 6,7,8) and a backlog for LI products No. 4,5,6 was formed (stages No. 9,10,11 ). As one of the reasons for the postponement, NII KP refers to the fact that when testing electronic products after the development of design documentation, it became necessary to purchase additional elements of the electronic base (i.e., it was necessary to replace some of the elements - approx. channel). Considering the lack of competition in the market for these elements (including due to the imposed sanctions against the Russian Federation), their acquisition required significant time costs, which ultimately led to a delay in the performance of work.
        Due to the unsatisfactory progress of work, the parties agree on a joint decision on 09.06.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX:
        "During the development of the complex of command devices of the checkpoint INAYA.402113.130 according to the terms of reference for the SC R&D "Development of a complex of command devices of the control system equipment on the topic" 001 "accuracy characteristics were achieved with deviations from individual requirements of the technical specifications for the complex of command devices.
        Deviations of the achieved characteristics from the requirements of the technical specifications for the complex of command devices are due to the lack of a domestic element base with the necessary characteristics.
        Bringing these characteristics to those specified by the terms of reference for the development of a complex of command devices is possible subject to the development and implementation of an improved domestic element base no earlier than 2022. "- in other words, if the improvement of the domestic element base does not happen, then the characteristics of the CCP will not be brought to the specified original TOR in 2022 or later.

        By the same decision, the parties established a number of measures and joint actions for the speedy completion of work:
        "1. To allow the complex of command devices with the achieved characteristics to GLI 1-3, for which JSC "GRC Makeeva", JSC "NPO Avtomatiki", JSC "Research Institute of Command Devices" correct the terms of reference for the complex of command devices and the corresponding documentation.
        2. JSC "Research Institute of Command Instruments" to develop and agree with JSC "NPO Avtomatiki", JSC "GRC Makeeva", FGUB "4TsNII" MO and DOGOZ the schedule for the implementation of the complex of command instruments to the level specified by the terms of reference for the development of the CCP.
        3. JSC "NPO Avtomatiki", JSC "GRC Makeeva", JSC "Research Institute of Command Instruments" together with the Federal State Budgetary Institution "4TsNII" MO and DOGOZ make a separate decision to finalize the complex of command instruments and the necessary methods in terms of confirming the main characteristics based on the results of paragraph 2 of this decision and the results of GLI 1-3.
        4. To carry out work on this decision without increasing the cost of development work."

        Further, JSC GRTs Makeeva, the head contractor of the state contract for Sarmat, sends letter No. 147/1131 dated 26.04.2021/11/30 to NII KP with an attachment in the form of a decision on the procedure for ground-based experimental testing of the onboard equipment of the control system. In accordance with this decision, the products supplied under the contract were approved for flight tests, taking into account the achieved characteristics (i.e. with a CCP that does not fully meet the initial requirements of the TOR - approx. channel). For this reason, the position of NII KP is as follows: before the completion of flight tests, it is not possible to perform work on stage 13.08.2021 of the contract. Moreover, according to the additional agreement No. 9 dated 10/1118187311572010101000282/2 concluded by the parties, the work on stages No. 2 and No. 1030 are excluded from the scope of work under contract No. included in the scope of work under contract No. 15/787/765-06.02.2015-1118187311572010101000282/24/jur.2 dated August 1030, 21 under stages No. 785 and No. 2051.


        And now think what you want, but the bottom line is that even the Sarmat nuclear ballistic missile was tried to be created on a Western elemental base ...
        And it didn't work out.
        Sanctions got in the way.
        1. Genry
          Genry 18 January 2022 17: 28
          -4
          Quote: SovAr238A
          the bottom line is that they even tried to create a nuclear ballistic missile "Sarmat" on a Western elemental base ...

          So I didn't see where the question ran into imported components.
          Yes, the military demands higher performance from the developers, and they are trying to get off easier. It's always been like that. Friction and courts, changing the TK, prolongation and additional funding ....

          And without a link - this is your opus taken out of context.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 18 January 2022 17: 43
            +1
            Quote: Genry

            So I didn't see where the question ran into imported components.

            those. text "NII KP refers to the fact that when testing electronic products after the development of design documentation, it became necessary to purchase additional elements of the electronic base. Given the lack of competition in the market for these elements (incl. due to the imposed sanctions against the Russian Federation) "Didn't you notice? Sanctions against Russia are in the form of a ban on sales, not a ban on production. It is necessary to replace, but there is nothing - sanctions ...
            Do you understand?

            Quote: Genry
            And without a link - this is your opus taken out of context.


            Well, dial case numbers A56-8333/2020 and A56-46672/2021, dial 1118187311572010101000282/2/2-1030-15/787/jur. jur.765 dated 06.02.2015/1118187311572010101000282/24
            google it...
            Or are you incapable of even such a small thing?
            someone is capable, but you are not?
            1. Genry
              Genry 18 January 2022 20: 29
              0
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Or are you incapable of even such a small thing?
              someone is capable, but you are not?

              Please don't be nervous.

              You obviously didn't look at these cases, because they no longer exist.
              There is an article by Viktor Alksnis, the tone of which repeats your comment.
              But he concluded not as a specialist, but as an extra.

              If you shout about bookmarks, then they must have a logical core and access to the global network, i.e. this is only possible with microprocessors. If you put your microcircuits in these positions, then there can no longer be any interference through bookmarks.
              And the military, the processors have always had their own. Let it be very expensive ....
          2. Osipov9391
            Osipov9391 18 January 2022 18: 35
            +7
            I am very aware of the topic and know very well what I am writing about - more than 65% of the electronic components in the avionics of a fighter are imported. Moreover, imports are not suitable for such use. That's why the rejections.
            Or was the scandal with the collapsed Chinese microcircuits from the registrar of the Su-24M shot down by the Turks forgotten? So for 6 years nothing has progressed! There is zero.
            1. Genry
              Genry 18 January 2022 20: 48
              -5
              Quote: Osipov9391
              I am very aware of the topic and know very well what I am writing about - more than 65% of the electronic components in fighter avionics are imported.

              What import elements can cause control interception, specifically, with the names ?
              If you do not say, then you are an "officer's sheep."
              Quote: Osipov9391
              Moreover, imports are not suitable for such use.

              If you have poor power or heat dissipation conditions, then this is not for microcircuits.
              Quote: Osipov9391
              Or the scandal with the collapsed Chinese microcircuits from the registrar of the Su-24M shot down by the Turks was forgotten

              I saw, well, it was clear that the registrar was made as a household appliance, without volumetric filling, so all the flash memory cracked (which ones shoved it there).
              Quote: Osipov9391
              So for 6 years nothing has progressed! There is zero.

              Just in 2015, many R&D projects that started in 2010-2012 were completed and production began in the space and military spheres.
              What appeared earlier and for 2021 (unclassified) in the article:
              https://habr.com/ru/company/milandr/blog/588496/
              1. Osipov9391
                Osipov9391 19 January 2022 00: 16
                +5
                Do the product indices BTsVM-386-1, BTsVM-386-6, BTsVS-1, for example, say nothing to you? What processors and element base do you know?
                So, it is precisely such blocks and on such microcircuits that are the basis of the avionics of the Su-34, Su-30SM, Su-35S, Su-57 and all combat helicopters!

                The interception of control will not cause anything - it will simply cause a system failure and a disruption of the combat mission. And this is at best.
                You probably have a bad idea that such a modern imported processor or microcontroller contains billions of transistors on a chip and hundreds of pins, some of which are not used?
                At frequencies of hundreds of MHz or GHz, any output behaves like a powerful antenna. At the right time, it will receive a signal from the satellite, the hardware tab will turn on and the microcircuit will stop working - along with the product.

                Domestic microcircuits since Soviet times, going for space and avionics, are made in a ceramic-metal case - their conclusions from a special alloy are coated with gold (aviation / space) or nickel (navy / air defense systems).
                There is a standard for them and for the development of military electronic equipment. There are specifications for domestic microcircuits.
                There is nothing of this for imported ones - they themselves in plastic cases are not suitable for such applications.
                They bet out of hopelessness that there are none of their own. Ceramic-metal dissipates heat well, but plastic does not. Therefore, on our special microcircuits, the temperature range is 65C to + 125C. And import -45С to +85С. And this is critical.

                On the leash of the registrar of the downed Su-24M in Syria, then there are usually a couple of such things on airplanes - operational (it can be anyone without protection, whatever) for everyday work and decoding failures, and salvageable. It has already been made in a special way, on shock absorbers, in a heat-protective ceramic case and special microcircuits. None of this was followed.
                1. Genry
                  Genry 19 January 2022 11: 22
                  -3
                  Quote: Osipov9391
                  So these are the blocks and on such microcircuits

                  What processors and interface controllers are there?
                  Japanese capacitors cannot execute external commands.
                  1. Osipov9391
                    Osipov9391 19 January 2022 13: 46
                    +4
                    The processors there are American, for example i486DX4-90 and the like from Intel.
                    The same applies to the upgraded A-50.
                    1. Genry
                      Genry 19 January 2022 15: 31
                      -1
                      Quote: Osipov9391
                      The processors there are American, for example i486DX4-90

                      View the PDF file:
                      https://mniirip.ru/sites/default/files/articles/katalog_elektronnogo_napravleniya_rpkb.pdf
                      There, in the first models (and after the collapse of the USSR, aircraft were made for sale), there really are 486 and even Celeron. But then everything turned to RISC, MIPS (Comdivid,) ... An export version of the on-board computer is also needed ...
                      And regarding the 486th CPU, we can say that this processor was sold by Intel to other companies for production (AMD, Cirrus, ..) and could not have bookmarks. And then there was no recognized global information network and the idea of ​​remote sabotage. But the 486th gave impetus to the development of software and Windows-95 appeared, and with it the Internet began to develop.
                      But the Pentium was already closed ....
                      Quote: Osipov9391
                      The same applies to the upgraded A-50.

                      Upgraded?!!?
                      At that time, there were already their own processors much more powerful than the 486th.
                      1. Osipov9391
                        Osipov9391 19 January 2022 18: 17
                        +2
                        The Su-30M2 is precisely equipped with such digital computers. This time. Then this processor is not everything, now almost the entire element base is imported in avionics. And memory, and ADC / DAC and much more.
                        The only exception is ACS and SDU, which are responsible for the stability of the aircraft and its control. This Cheboksary Elara produces. But there, since Soviet times, little has changed in the schemes.
                        For example, Borisovsky Screen made a digital SDU for the Su-33 in Belarus.

                        PS

                        Everything that concerns displays, on-board graphic stations, digital computers now standing and being produced for the Su-30SM, Su-35S, Su-57, Su-34 and combat helicopters, the share of the element base of imported production is more than half - 65% at least sometimes.
                        I'm very on topic. And I know well its capabilities.
                      2. Genry
                        Genry 19 January 2022 23: 18
                        -2
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        the share of the element base of imported production is more than half - 65% at least sometimes.

                        You are confusing general statistics and the use of key (for security) components.

                        And do not tell fairy tales about switching off from the satellite, for equipment that can withstand EMP exposure.
                      3. Osipov9391
                        Osipov9391 19 January 2022 23: 52
                        +2
                        I don't need statistics. Can you explain to me about the display panel 2E-02 of the Screen-100-02 system manufactured by Aviaavtomatika Kursk, what is it for Su-34 bombers?
                        And this product is disassembled against me.
                        Explain which LED matrices (there are 6 of them) are used?
                        Explain what microcontrollers are on the boards there and what circuits are used to record failures?

                        Now further. Let's assume that an imported processor or microcontroller is installed in satellite navigation equipment and outputs GLONASS/GPS data to the aircraft FNC. Here.
                        This processor has memory on the core, which is done during manufacture. And there can be any codes/nodes/cells.

                        From the GPS satellites, at the right time, a signal of a certain form will come that activates these hardware tabs in the processor.
                        And as soon as the system is at certain geographical coordinates (for example, on the territory of Russia), it will simply stop working. Even if the GLONASS/GPS signal is stable.
                        And even now any intelligent radio amateur can make such bookmarks.
                      4. Genry
                        Genry 20 January 2022 13: 32
                        -1
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        I don't need statistics.

                        Then do not shake about 60%.
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        display panel 2E-02 of the Screen-100-02 system manufactured by Aviaavtomatika Kursk what is for Su-34 bombers?
                        And this product is disassembled against me.

                        Bought for precious metals by ad?
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        Let us assume that an imported processor or microcontroller is installed in the satellite navigation equipment and outputs GLONASS/GPS data to the aircraft FNC.

                        You do not assume - there are facts?
                        You think that in such a large project as GLONAS, they will not bother with the production of their own receivers.
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        and on what schemes there is a record of failures?

                        Did you change the device?
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        From the GPS satellites, at the right time, a signal of a certain form will come that activates these hardware tabs in the processor.
                        And as soon as the system is at certain geographical coordinates (for example, on the territory of Russia), it will simply stop working.

                        Only a foreign civilian will think that in Russia the military will use GPS. And only the naive will think that there will be an imported receiver in military equipment, if there is one. Module on the right:

                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        And even now any intelligent radio amateur can make such bookmarks.

                        Especially such an intelligent one, who does not know why ceramic cases are used. You speak:
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        Ceramic-metal dissipates heat well, but plastic does not.

                        Ceramics simply have a thermal expansion close to silicon, so the temperature range of operation and storage is much wider. Plastic strains and destroys the crystal.
                        And the main heat sink goes to the board through the pins.
                      5. Osipov9391
                        Osipov9391 20 January 2022 17: 47
                        +2
                        I once again explained to you how much the element base is imported in avionics !!!!
                        And yes, what I may have voiced. I can’t voice everything for obvious reasons - you can sit down for this.

                        All navigation processors that go for aviation devices work with several systems - American, Russian and European. Each of the SNS transmits service signals to correct the operation of the system. Nothing will prevent at the right time to give a signal to activate the hardware tab on the crystal.

                        NIIMA Progress is the only one who developed navigation processors and microassemblies.
                        But production is carried out at foreign factories ...

                        And what does it mean to do your development abroad? Yes, it’s just that if they find out what and why someone ordered, they will deliberately violate the production technology. Poorly wash acid from silicon wafers and the service life of such semiconductors will be greatly reduced.
                        Therefore, for military electronics, you need only your own! And his own from the strength of 30-35%, no more. Part of this Minsk "Integral".

                        But in most avionics components, this is a pure import. Even capacitors and connectors.
                      6. Genry
                        Genry 20 January 2022 19: 41
                        -1
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        I once again explained to you how much the element base is imported in avionics !!!!

                        Yes, at least 99%
                        Vulnerability is possible only in key components. And even then, connected to an external open network.

                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        Nothing will prevent at the right time to give a signal to activate the hardware tab on the crystal.

                        If we are talking about a Russian crystal, then what kind of bookmarks are we talking about?
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        But production is carried out at foreign factories ...

                        Something on foreign, something on their own.
                        Vulnerability can only be in microcircuits that execute microprograms / algorithms. Analog ones have no "brains", while digital ones are simply checked under a microscope and test signatures.
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        And what does it mean to do your development abroad? Yes, it’s just that if they find out what and why someone ordered, they will deliberately violate the production technology.

                        So development or production?
                        Do you know the difference between current and voltage?
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        Poorly wash acid from silicon wafers and the service life of such semiconductors will be greatly reduced.

                        Have you ever looked at crystals? And through a microscope? There you can immediately see the level of production and the possibility of marriage. And you don't need to wash anything in a vacuum.
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        Therefore, for military electronics, you need only your own! And his own from the strength of 30-35%, no more. Part of this Minsk "Integral".

                        When it comes to piece goods, you can buy ready-made, with input control (which the military has ...) at least from hell. Profitable - pregnant pensioners will get more.
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        But in most avionics components, this is a pure import.

                        Tell me at least one country that does not use imports?
                        Everything that is produced in the world cannot be placed only at home.
                        Here you eat everything purchased. Or do you have to give up everything and start making plows, plowing the land, .... In short, you will take it upon yourself to do everything you want to eat. This is real?

                        What is strategically necessary or economically profitable will be produced in Russia. The rest leads to unnecessary costs and weakening of the state.
                      7. Osipov9391
                        Osipov9391 20 January 2022 23: 55
                        +2
                        In general, the United States and NATO countries have the production of the necessary electronic components of the "War" and "Space" classes.
                        This corresponds to our acceptances "5" VP and "9" OSM.
                        Countries such as France and Britain produce this completely at home.

                        In analog electronics, I agree, there can’t be any bookmarks anywhere. These are switches, transistor matrices, amplifiers, rectifiers, different sets of diodes, etc.
                        There is a completely different technology - bipolar or TTL, which is less common. And there are very few elements on the crystal. Maybe hundreds of things, sometimes even dozens.

                        But digital is already CMOS where the vulnerability is always high. Even resistance to various kinds of radiation is not written in the developer's description, as the developers of our microcircuits do.
                        Of course, some tests of imported microcircuits for radiation and so on are already being carried out in Russia, but still it is impossible to check how the crystal will behave after years of operation.

                        Regarding the foreign production of our developments, (for example, at X-FAB in Germany, as the Voronezh KTC and SKTB ES do), yes, there are those where crystal plates come from the West and are tested here before being assembled into a metal-ceramic case.
                        But there are also those that come from foreign factories in plastic cases. For example, with a very large number of outputs. FPGA Voronezh. They also go into avionics.

                        And space (satellites) is a completely different topic. Almost all of the microcircuits, transistors, and other semiconductors there must be SOS (silicon-on-sapphire) or SOI (silicon-on-insulator). And they make them:
                        Angstrem, Zelenograd;
                        Sapphire, Moscow;
                        NIISI, Moscow;
                        NVC, Nizhny Novgorod;
                        And some privateers.
                        These are already operating in high orbits where satellites grab all sorts of radiation.
                        There are also imports. Significant but smaller. So percent 35% maximum. The Europeans are apparently selling it in exchange for Soyuz to launch from Kourou, and the Americans are apparently selling it in exchange for places for their astronauts on Russian ships.
                        So there is cooperation. And there will be no bad luck - the West itself can fly up if, due to a refusal, a Russian ship with their astronaut or a rocket with their satellites falls.
                        But these are very small volumes and they go strictly for their intended purpose.
                      8. Genry
                        Genry 21 January 2022 00: 43
                        -1
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        The United States and NATO countries have the production of the necessary electronic components of the "War" and "Space" class.

                        There were a lot of scandals in the USA that Chinese microelectronics were purchased for aviation, the navy ... They don’t pay attention to everyday life. A huge part of the components are made in Taiwan (US electronics). Now they are very concerned about China's desire to bring Taiwan under its jurisdiction. A large construction of production facilities in the United States began to transfer production.
                        Those. gaps in the components and they have.

                        Good luck! hi
                      9. Osipov9391
                        Osipov9391 21 January 2022 02: 59
                        +2
                        Lastly.
                        Maybe in the States someone indulged in something, but for space they definitely do their own thing and only at home - they have their own standard for hulls. And it looks like this.
                        There are factories in Florida, Texas and California.
                        Europeans do the same, ESA manages orders, but usually Zarlink or ST does it.
                        But this is space! However, it can be very distant. Up to Pluto.
                    2. reader65
                      reader65 19 January 2022 18: 06
                      -1
                      Indeed, our pilots are heroes. Fly like this...
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 18 January 2022 17: 56
          -6
          Where is it about 65%?
          1. Osipov9391
            Osipov9391 18 January 2022 18: 38
            +3
            I think more than 65% of the imported element base. Its simply does not exist in nature.
            This applies to the Yak-130, Su-34, Su-35S and Su-57.
            It is clear that bookmarks are present there.
            1. alexey sidykin
              alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 18: 07
              +1
              Quote: Osipov9391
              I think more than 65% of the imported element base. Its simply does not exist in nature.
              This applies to the Yak-130, Su-34, Su-35S and Su-57.
              It is clear that bookmarks are present there.

              Yep, that's how I see it...
  18. faiver
    faiver 18 January 2022 14: 58
    +6
    30 years have passed ...
    The aircraft will be assembled

    Serial production of the aircraft is scheduled to start in 2024.

    build a special assembly shop.

    the General Electric H80-200 engine is installed on it, however, in the future it will be replaced by the Russian VK-800S

    Everything is in the future tense, which is the replacement for the An-2? Third? Or Fourth? I already lost count, the former ones also flew ...
  19. Suomynona
    Suomynona 18 January 2022 15: 00
    0
    He would have a smaller brother. Also for 9 people, but not as heavy and with a range of 1000 km to make the ticket as cheap as possible.
  20. Soldatov V.
    Soldatov V. 18 January 2022 15: 01
    +3
    In Novosibirsk, a composite theater is being slowly made to order, an analogue of the AN-2, according to the design of a biplane.
    Speed ​​330 km/h, range 3500 km, carrying capacity 3 tons. I don't know whose engine. Already built 30 pieces.
    This is how a good plane makes its way into the sky and to people on the sly. But how much shit was poured on him, as well as on the TU-204. soldier
    1. faiver
      faiver 18 January 2022 15: 49
      +2
      make a composite theater, analogue of AN-2
      - Is the price known?
      1. Soldatov V.
        Soldatov V. 18 January 2022 17: 00
        -3
        I don't remember exactly, but it's expensive. In my opinion, the price is wound up, everything is on imported materials. Maybe it will fall on domestic ones.
        1. Alf
          Alf 18 January 2022 18: 27
          +5
          Quote: V.
          Maybe it will fall on domestic ones.

          And where to get them? Here one "comrade" shouts all the time that it is unprofitable to produce anything in Russia, there is no market.
          1. Soldatov V.
            Soldatov V. 18 January 2022 19: 17
            +4
            The market is huge. But at least 2 aircraft of the AN-1000 type are needed. They drove fuel under the sky, tickets are higher than the roof, wages are low, so they don’t fly. And beyond the Urals in Siberia and the Far East, an airplane is not a luxury, but a means of transportation. So people save up money and fly away in one direction and forever. How many Siberia and the Far East have already lost people.
            And the plane is needed with a normal luggage compartment. In the photo there is a salon "Baikal" and AN-2. And now imagine a Siberian man and woman in fur coats plus trunks with gifts to the city or from the city. Or an official under 150 kilograms flying to campaign for elections. soldier
            1. Alf
              Alf 18 January 2022 21: 03
              +5
              Quote: V.
              The market is huge.

              And you and Vadim237 talk ... His only mantra is unprofitable (it's cheaper in China), there is no sales, etc.
              Quote: V.
              And the plane is needed with a normal luggage compartment.

              Here one person has already moved a "powerful" idea. I quote
              For cargo, it is possible to provide for a cargo glider, unmanned and controlled from the cab via cable. This is the best and most modern solution.
              Well, or even make separate serial unmanned cargo aircraft

              The first point about a plane on a string without any comments at all ...
              1. Third district
                Third district 19 January 2022 12: 24
                +2
                Quote: Alf
                The first point about a plane on a string without any comments at all ...

                It was fun too. Most likely, this was written by a student. Sometimes they write that NATO needs to be taken and destroyed.
                1. alexey sidykin
                  alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 18: 11
                  +3
                  Quote: Third District
                  Quote: Alf
                  The first point about a plane on a string without any comments at all ...

                  It was fun too. Most likely, this was written by a student. Sometimes they write that NATO needs to be taken and destroyed.

                  If only ... And not schoolchildren, but uncles, and in years, they write such things that at least stand, even fall.
    2. 26rus
      26rus 18 January 2022 21: 33
      +2
      they make a composite theater, an analogue of the AN-2, according to the design of a biplane
      Where did the firewood about the production of a composite biplane come from? If this is about TVS-2DTS, then it seemed to have remained in a single copy, if TVS-2MS (it was released somewhere), then it is not a composite one, just a remotorized An-2, with an imported motor and propeller.
  21. Givi_49
    Givi_49 18 January 2022 15: 26
    +5
    1. I think that 3000 km is a ferry range (real people should not fly so far on such liners).
    2. With a load of 2000 kg, a range of 1500 km is closer to the truth. At a speed of 300 km / h - 5 hours of flight (!) Near the ground - a terrible test for the crew and passengers, they will throw up, they will say: stop, slow down, we will get off.
    3. On one foreign motor - definitely not good: they will strangle with sanctions and the cost of spare parts; counterfeit parts will destroy the project completely.
    4. Two VK-800S - only just to be able to securely seat passengers on one engine.
    5. I wish the crew and the apparatus to pass all the tests with honor and confirm all the characteristics. And the plant - do not deceive yourself.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 18 January 2022 17: 04
      0
      I agree on range. I think that such a range with a load of 2 tons is based on the fact that it will be necessary to fly to where there is nowhere to refuel.
  22. Genry
    Genry 18 January 2022 16: 04
    -1
    "Baikal" during one of the runs along the runway, took off from the ground and after flying a few meters again sank onto the runway.

    Aiming for the sky! The wind helped.
    And there is already information about a full take-off.
    1. Genry
      Genry 18 January 2022 16: 37
      +3


      Takeoff video:
      https://www.instagram.com/p/CY3wRZWj8ff/

      When searching, I came across Lake Baikal itself:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpd2Y4mws-I
  23. iouris
    iouris 18 January 2022 16: 09
    +4
    And instead of the heart - General Electric. What about brains?
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 18 January 2022 17: 05
      +5
      Most likely Honeywell.
      1. Elturisto
        Elturisto 18 January 2022 19: 34
        +2
        GE-H80 is a former Czech Walter that already belongs to the Americans.
  24. senima56
    senima56 18 January 2022 16: 13
    +2
    How many of these "replacements for the legendary AN-2" have there been? But where are they all? negative
    Maybe this plane will be lucky? good
    1. iouris
      iouris 19 January 2022 14: 16
      +2
      It's time to change something in the leadership of the state (if not all).
  25. keeper03
    keeper03 18 January 2022 17: 56
    +7
    What kind of replacement is this if the An-2 had a biplane with incredible lift! request
    The capitalists / globalists are once again rubbing some kind of game on us! belay
  26. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 18 January 2022 18: 29
    +2
    The car is not the most successful (no nose strut, low passenger capacity, imported components, low interior), and the story itself dragged on too long (it was reported that the "substitute" An-2 was at MAKS in 2013, then in 2015, it were taken to Zhukovsky in 2017 and 2019). By the way, as for the limit on the number of passengers (9), if there was a desire, it could be changed by the domestic regulator. In addition, most of the airfields and landing sites for small aircraft ceased to exist. But the point is not only in this, but also in the economics of the project: preferential conditions for the purchase of aircraft are needed, and without subsidizing transportation, the idea will be stillborn due to the lack of effective demand.
    1. Genry
      Genry 18 January 2022 21: 08
      +1
      Quote: p0pulivox
      The car is not the most successful (no nose strut, low passenger capacity, imported components, low interior),

      The presence of a bow stance in this dimension is 50% -50%. Since it interferes in flight (if it is not removed), it is better without it.
      Small passenger capacity? Take Mriya. And here you need no more than 9.
      It is beneficial to use non-critical import, because it does not bother. The engine is from different manufacturers, plus your own is brought.
      The cabin is higher than that of the An-2 - according to modern standards of pax transport.
      Quote: p0pulivox
      As for the limit on the number of passengers (9), if there was a desire, it could be changed by the domestic regulator.

      The requirements are synchronized with the world ones - if they are "easy behavior" they have no .trust.
      Quote: p0pulivox
      In addition, most of the airfields and landing sites for small aircraft ceased to exist.

      This type of aircraft does not require a dedicated runway. Align, clean, ....
      Quote: p0pulivox
      preferential conditions for the purchase of aircraft are needed, and without subsidizing transportation, the idea will be stillborn due to the lack of solvent demand.

      Many Russian flights are subsidized, so here too...
      1. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 18: 16
        +3
        Quote: Genry
        Quote: p0pulivox
        The car is not the most successful (no nose strut, low passenger capacity, imported components, low interior),

        The presence of a bow stance in this dimension is 50% -50%. Since it interferes in flight (if it is not removed), it is better without it.
        Small passenger capacity? Take Mriya. And here you need no more than 9.
        It is beneficial to use non-critical import, because it does not bother. The engine is from different manufacturers, plus your own is brought.
        The cabin is higher than that of the An-2 - according to modern standards of pax transport.
        Quote: p0pulivox
        As for the limit on the number of passengers (9), if there was a desire, it could be changed by the domestic regulator.

        The requirements are synchronized with the world ones - if they are "easy behavior" they have no .trust.
        Quote: p0pulivox
        In addition, most of the airfields and landing sites for small aircraft ceased to exist.

        This type of aircraft does not require a dedicated runway. Align, clean, ....
        Quote: p0pulivox
        preferential conditions for the purchase of aircraft are needed, and without subsidizing transportation, the idea will be stillborn due to the lack of solvent demand.

        Many Russian flights are subsidized, so here too...

        The problem is that this aircraft, again, is not a complete replacement for the AN-2 ... For it cannot replace one of the niches of the AN 2. For he will not become a workhorse. Flying minibus and nothing more
        1. Genry
          Genry 19 January 2022 23: 25
          -2
          Quote: Alexey Sedykin
          The problem is that this aircraft, again, is not a complete replacement for the AN-2 ... For it cannot replace one of the niches of the AN 2. For he will not become a workhorse. Flying minibus and nothing more

          All hints...
          Specifically, what is wrong with it?
          1. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 20 January 2022 13: 00
            +2
            Quote: Genry
            Quote: Alexey Sedykin
            The problem is that this aircraft, again, is not a complete replacement for the AN-2 ... For it cannot replace one of the niches of the AN 2. For he will not become a workhorse. Flying minibus and nothing more

            All hints...
            Specifically, what is wrong with it?

            As I already explained to one here, the speed is too high for him, for agriculture or forestry ...
            1. Genry
              Genry 20 January 2022 15: 04
              -1
              Quote: Alexey Sedykin
              As I already explained to one here

              Do you think I'm another one?
              Quote: Alexey Sedykin
              his speed is too great for agriculture or forestry ...

              Are there numbers? Or are you unfounded ...?
              Their landing speed is almost the same: 95 km/h and 80 km/h.
              Others are still unknown.

              For agriculture, other aircraft are supposed to be designed for specialized equipment, with tanks of solutions in the wings, with refueling with available fuel, with a good view of the ground, with a built-in parachute, and protection against collision with a wire .... And the devices are different there.
              AN-2 was used because there was no alternative. Then it was replaced by the Ka-26.

              For forestry - again these planes are past. Extinguish fires - use the Be-200.
              1. alexey sidykin
                alexey sidykin 21 January 2022 14: 05
                +1
                Quote: Genry
                Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                As I already explained to one here

                Do you think I'm another one?
                Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                his speed is too great for agriculture or forestry ...

                Are there numbers? Or are you unfounded ...?
                Their landing speed is almost the same: 95 km/h and 80 km/h.
                Others are still unknown.

                For agriculture, other aircraft are supposed to be designed for specialized equipment, with tanks of solutions in the wings, with refueling with available fuel, with a good view of the ground, with a built-in parachute, and protection against collision with a wire .... And the devices are different there.
                AN-2 was used because there was no alternative. Then it was replaced by the Ka-26.

                For forestry - again these planes are past. Extinguish fires - use the Be-200.

                Estimated cruising speed near Baikal is 300 km/h versus 180 km/h for AN-2, what does the takeoff and landing speed have to do with it... Actually, there are fuel tanks in the wings, and Be (shki) generally belong to the Ministry of Emergency Situations... Further. Forestry is not only planting and sawing, but also it is necessary to spray from pests.
                1. Genry
                  Genry 21 January 2022 14: 44
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                  what is the takeoff and landing speed...

                  These are the speeds of stable controlled flight. They can also be flown, and not just cruising, which realize the allowable long-term engine power.
                  Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                  Fuel tanks are actually located in the wings.

                  This is for aircraft that need to fly far. And agricultural aircraft do not need long-distance flights, and there is no extra space.
                  Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                  Be (shki) generally belong to the Ministry of Emergencies

                  And the Ministry of Emergency Situations puts out fires and forest fires too.
                  Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                  and spray for pests

                  From animals, birds, .... Tell me more about fertilizing with fertilizers.
                  The forestry aviation is engaged in urgent delivery of people to work sites or in emergency cases - helicopters are the best option.
                  1. alexey sidykin
                    alexey sidykin 21 January 2022 14: 50
                    +1
                    Quote: Genry
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    what is the takeoff and landing speed...

                    These are the speeds of stable controlled flight. They can also be flown, and not just cruising, which realize the allowable long-term engine power.
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    Fuel tanks are actually located in the wings.

                    This is for aircraft that need to fly far. And agricultural aircraft do not need long-distance flights, and there is no extra space.
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    Be (shki) generally belong to the Ministry of Emergencies

                    And the Ministry of Emergency Situations puts out fires and forest fires too.
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    and spray for pests

                    From animals, birds, .... Tell me more about fertilizing with fertilizers.
                    The forestry aviation is engaged in urgent delivery of people to work sites or in emergency cases - helicopters are the best option.

                    You probably don’t know, but forests are also sprayed from pests, otherwise the forest is destroyed by hectares ... you didn’t work in the forestry, but I worked. And how ordinary bark beetles wool trees are very much in the know ...
                    1. Genry
                      Genry 21 January 2022 15: 09
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                      they didn’t work in the forestry, but I worked

                      They worked badly... Chemistry is an extreme case of forest protection measures. And anyway - here the helicopter is more optimal - it sprays better.
                      1. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 21 January 2022 15: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: Genry
                        Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                        they didn’t work in the forestry, but I worked

                        They worked badly... Chemistry is an extreme case of forest protection measures. And anyway - here the helicopter is more optimal - it sprays better.

                        When a beetle appears, then you will be left without a forest to wait for an emergency
                  2. alexey sidykin
                    alexey sidykin 21 January 2022 14: 51
                    +1
                    Quote: Genry
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    what is the takeoff and landing speed...

                    These are the speeds of stable controlled flight. They can also be flown, and not just cruising, which realize the allowable long-term engine power.
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    Fuel tanks are actually located in the wings.

                    This is for aircraft that need to fly far. And agricultural aircraft do not need long-distance flights, and there is no extra space.
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    Be (shki) generally belong to the Ministry of Emergencies

                    And the Ministry of Emergency Situations puts out fires and forest fires too.
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    and spray for pests

                    From animals, birds, .... Tell me more about fertilizing with fertilizers.
                    The forestry aviation is engaged in urgent delivery of people to work sites or in emergency cases - helicopters are the best option.

                    And as for helicopters ... you know, I have been living in a village for 45 years and have never seen the best option, but not once from a maize plant.
                    1. Genry
                      Genry 21 January 2022 15: 14
                      0
                      The Ka-26 was in great demand - you didn't have enough.
      2. p0pulivox
        p0pulivox 19 January 2022 20: 46
        +1
        Mr. Henry! It is immediately clear that you do not fully own the issue. So briefly:
        1) the nose strut has certain advantages during takeoff and landing;
        2) why either 9 or "Mriya"? More economically advantageous is the capacity of 12 passengers;
        3) non-critical import is good, but how non-critical is it in reality, especially the propeller group?
        4) you did not seem to be interested in the issue of the behavior of the US regulator regarding the requirements for the operator of a single-engine aircraft;
        5) you also don’t know about domestic requirements for airfields and landing sites, ask. But this airplane cannot and will not land anywhere;
        6) look into subsidizing air transportation in more detail, everything is also not so simple there, at the same time estimate whether they want to allocate the amounts necessary for mass transportation from the relevant budgets.
        1. Genry
          Genry 19 January 2022 23: 00
          -2
          Quote: p0pulivox
          1) the nose strut has certain advantages during takeoff and landing;

          What is the meaning of your answer?
          Quote: p0pulivox
          2) why either 9 or "Mriya"? Cost-effective capacity for 12 passengers

          Where 12 passengers fly, the L-410 will be more profitable. Even with 9 passengers, it will be equally efficient and economical for the AN-2 family.
          Quote: p0pulivox
          3) non-critical import is good, but how non-critical is it in reality, especially the propeller group?

          If imports can be purchased from different manufacturers or intermediary traders, then there will be no problems.
          The imported propeller engine has probably already been purchased, since there are native Walthers in warehouses for the old L-410s.
          Quote: p0pulivox
          4) you did not seem to be interested in the issue of the behavior of the US regulator regarding the requirements for the operator of a single-engine aircraft;

          USA - consider themselves a navel and the rules are different. See: "Level 4"


          In Great Russia:


          .


          Quote: p0pulivox
          6) look into subsidizing air transportation in more detail, everything is also not so simple there, at the same time estimate whether they want to allocate the amounts necessary for mass transportation from the relevant budgets.

          This is where you need to decide.
          1. p0pulivox
            p0pulivox 20 January 2022 18: 14
            0
            Mr. Henry! The history of the creation and prospects of this aircraft are rather murky. Unfortunately, your lengthy comment is of little substance ...
            1) if you want to argue so much, then first, familiarize yourself with the differences in the airborne characteristics of an aircraft with different landing gear;
            2) "Caravan" in various modifications carries up to 13 and even up to 14 passengers; well stupid, didn't consult "Genry". But how economical it would be to operate the L-410 ...
            3) the answer to the import is clear - everything will be fine someday and somewhere. After all, there were never any problems, right?
            4) and why is there a "copy-paste" from the rules? AP-23 with such restrictions, they say, was taken with an eye on the FAR-23. But we already had amendments to the Constitution, sovereignty, rising from our knees, etc., etc., so there is no need for "the United States is the navel of the earth"! What specifically prevents you from doing like "them" ???
            5) about subsidizing, the answer is clear, so I won’t even comment ...
  27. Elturisto
    Elturisto 18 January 2022 19: 32
    +3
    No one believes in the fairy tale about the quick replacement of the American engine with the VK-800.
  28. SPQR
    SPQR 18 January 2022 21: 27
    -1
    And the Ukrainians and our all-propellers said that he would not take off for another 15 years ...
    Well, I see nothing, whining began about his lack of prospects and even the lack of pilots))) Otherwise it became boring)
  29. 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 18 January 2022 23: 23
    +5
    He does not pull Corn for replacement, the gut is thin.
  30. eehnie
    eehnie 19 January 2022 01: 22
    0
    The L-410 is a fixed-wing aircraft of the same weight category as the An-2/4/6, which is actually produced in Russia and is now in known demand in Russia in the form of sales. The current real demand for a fixed wing aircraft in this weight category in Russia cannot be ignored, otherwise it will lead to significant economic losses.

    (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

    The L-410 is a fixed wing aircraft of the same weight category of the An-2/4/6, actually in production in Russia, and with well known demand in Russia today, in the form of sales. The current real demand of the fixed wing aircraft of this weight category in Russia can not be ignored, or it will lead to important economic loses.
    1. Lunic
      Lunic 19 January 2022 08: 33
      +1
      The L-410, a fixed wing aircraft in the same category as the AN-2/4/6, is currently produced in Russia and, with a well-known demand in Russia, is shown by sales. The current real needs of aviation in this weight category in Russia cannot be ignored as they can lead to important (large) economic losses.
  31. AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship 19 January 2022 01: 34
    0
    Regional planes have been talking about tactic for 30 years already. They even show them regularly on Max. Some models even manage to release 2-3 pieces. Then - silence ... Well, again. What the hell is a GE engine under economic sanctions? It's one thing to give 2 engines a try, and quite another to put a batch of 100 pcs. For a long time, PW gave 4 engines. Received IL96-M. We tried. Liked. Then the command came to return the engines, or to dispose of them along with the aircraft. Fso
  32. Dikson
    Dikson 19 January 2022 05: 13
    -3
    And he has an idiotically long "muzzle" because there was no normal engine? Where is he with such a beak? What will the pilot see in front of the hood when landing on an undeveloped runway in some distant ulus?
  33. mmaxx
    mmaxx 19 January 2022 07: 53
    +1
    An-2 was not called "maize".
  34. syndicalist
    syndicalist 19 January 2022 08: 34
    0
    Only 80 years have passed and finally a new version of the maize has appeared
    1. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 18: 18
      +1
      Quote: syndicalist
      Only 80 years have passed and finally a new version of the maize has appeared

      Nothing in common
  35. Romanenko
    Romanenko 19 January 2022 08: 36
    +1
    How not good was Annushka (An-2), and it was high time to find a replacement for her. It is interesting how and to what extent the new car will replace the world's record-breaking biplane, but it's good that things have started off the ground.
    So long and painful to look for a replacement, it would seem archaic and uneconomical aircraft, perhaps nowhere else except ours.
    And here, on the way of more and more clear NECESSITY, there are paper obstacles, restrictions invented in recent times and excluding requirements, and it seems that it is not aerodynamics and nature that prevent the new aircraft from taking off into the air, but aero bureaucracy.
    I think so, the main thing here is to break through the barriers and release the first birds into the sky, and then, you see, we will again have small aircraft, killed by the efforts of partners and the hands of democrats.
    1. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 19 January 2022 18: 18
      +1
      Quote: Romanenko
      How not good was Annushka (An-2), and it was high time to find a replacement for her. It is interesting how and to what extent the new car will replace the world's record-breaking biplane, but it's good that things have started off the ground.
      So long and painful to look for a replacement, it would seem archaic and uneconomical aircraft, perhaps nowhere else except ours.
      And here, on the way of more and more clear NECESSITY, there are paper obstacles, restrictions invented in recent times and excluding requirements, and it seems that it is not aerodynamics and nature that prevent the new aircraft from taking off into the air, but aero bureaucracy.
      I think so, the main thing here is to break through the barriers and release the first birds into the sky, and then, you see, we will again have small aircraft, killed by the efforts of partners and the hands of democrats.

      Only partially
    2. Dikson
      Dikson 20 January 2022 05: 12
      -1
      Just like Komsomol, yeah .. "We'll catch up, we'll overtake .. the main thing is to report on time .. break through the paper barriers .." and then, having made three cars (there are still no motors!), You can calm down .. and sit down write new slogans.
  36. Sergey39
    Sergey39 19 January 2022 09: 11
    +1
    The question is, when will they switch to Our engine, the mattress covers will definitely veto their engine!
  37. APASUS
    APASUS 19 January 2022 09: 27
    +2
    Until regional transportation is profitable (or subsidized by the state), you can carry out at least 1000 projects to replace the An-2. We have a huge country, and many children from the Far East have never been to Moscow, it’s easier to get to China
  38. MakStVik
    MakStVik 19 January 2022 10: 04
    +1
    Not a maize man, but Annushka!
  39. puskarinkis
    puskarinkis 19 January 2022 13: 39
    +2
    Yes, at least 10 aircraft can be made! And what's the point if there is no affordable system of small (private) aviation ?! In the Union, everything was done according to need, and not on the basis of profit: you need to deliver cargo to polar explorers - planes or helicopters flew! There were many airfields and pilots who were supported by the state. Now no one will lift a finger without benefit. And now the question is: how profitable is it for a private owner to maintain an airfield, technical staff, aircraft (s), obtaining (confirming) licenses, certificates, etc. in some village with 10 inhabitants? Yes, and the An-2 is good not so much for its outstanding technical characteristics, but for the possibility of maintenance and repair by airfield personnel in the same village. If the Russian hinterland has jumped so much in technical development and financial well-being that it is able to service modern aircraft, and the volume of traffic in the vicinity covers the costs of maintaining the infrastructure and fleet of vehicles, then we can rejoice at the timely appearance of a new machine for small aircraft! Or the main "buyer" abroad?
  40. Georgievic
    Georgievic 20 January 2022 01: 55
    0
    An entertaining reading turned out, but the AN2 airplane turned out to be so good and widespread because the upbringing was correct in the USSR! From childhood, there were stations for young technicians, aircraft modeling clubs, and DOSSAF clubs for children all over the country! The children were brought up with a thirst for knowledge in technology, aviation, they gained knowledge in their future profession, built models of aircraft with their hands, mastering the psychology of flight! By the age of majority, young people already had the desire to create, design, build, they had skills! Is it that Antonov created a range of aircraft? He was a talented manager in terms of modern concepts, and all this aviation equipment was created by a mass of talented youth who received training at school! That's where you need to start in order to get such an aircraft as the AN-2.
  41. aries2200
    aries2200 20 January 2022 08: 26
    0
    Good news .. but for a very long time it (the plane) has been off the ground for a long time already in operation should be ... who slows down?