Germany: from its "Tornado" to alien F-35

97

As it became known from the publications of the DPA news agency and the newspaper "Die Zeit", German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht has prepared and will soon submit for consideration two controversial weapons projects.

This is associated primarily with the requirements of NATO, which relate to the armaments of the member states of the bloc. The government coalition in Germany cannot fail to fulfill the requirements of NATO, because the rearmament projects, which caused a very controversial reaction in the past Bundestag, were again in the crosshairs.



Most of the attention was drawn when Christine Lambert began consultations on projects with Chancellor Olaf Scholz. It was then that everyone began to stir.

What is it about? About Tornado. More precisely, "again about the" Tornado ", because even Lambrecht's predecessor in the ministerial post, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, decided to buy F-18 combat aircraft from the USA as a successor to the" Tornado ".

Yes, the Panavia "Tornado", developed in the early 1970s by specialists from the German firm Messerschmitt-Belkov-Blom, British Aerospace and Italy's Alenia Aeronautica, is actually outdated and needs to be replaced. Moreover, it is outdated not morally, but also physically. After all, the youngest "tornadoes" were made in 1998.


As you know, there were two modifications of the aircraft: the IDS Tornado fighter-bomber and the ADV Tornado interceptor. About ten years ago, all interceptors were removed from service by all operating countries and decommissioned. Obviously, it was the turn of the fighter-bombers.

Yes, the "Tornado" was a good plane that took part in more than one military conflict of our time, but alas, its time is up. And the plane really needs to be changed to something more modern.

Why can't you change it to Eurofighter "Typhoon" FGR4 aka EF2000, aka just Typhoon?


After all, the plane more than meets the requirements of the present, it is already in service, including in Germany, and certainly not much inferior to the same F-18, which Kramp-Karrenbauer so wanted to acquire. And in some important parameters, such as speed and range, it even surpasses.

And money "to the side" does not float overseas ...

The intrigue will not last long, alas.

There is such a thing as the concept of "US participation in nuclear weapons." Yes, the well-known program according to which aviation The Bundeswehr is simply obliged, if necessary, to carry somewhere an American nuclear weapon on board their aircraft. NATO's concept of nuclear deterrence provides that in the event of war, allies have access to US nuclear weapons, i.e. must be able to carry the bombs to the target on their own.

Typhoon is unsuitable for such operations. Moreover, the retrofitting of the Eurofighter for carrying and using nuclear weapons turned out to be associated with very big problems and is not feasible in the near future.

It is difficult to say where NATO is in such a hurry, but Germany has been under pressure in this regard for a long time.

And so, after Scholz spoke with Lambrecht, several test orders were placed in the United States. The aim is to further clarify whether purchasing the more modern F-35 aircraft could be an alternative and more efficient, both combat and economic.

Because the ability to carry American nuclear bombs or missiles is one thing, and the money that will not go to “your” Eurofighter is another.

Indeed, in Germany, work is now underway to ensure that the Typhoon replaces the Tornado in another very complex and useful matter - electronic warfare aircraft.

The Tornado turned out to be a very, very useful aircraft. M American nuclear bombs B61 could carry, and easily rebuilt for operation by an electronic warfare aircraft, and could be a highly specialized interceptor. In general, it is a versatile multi-purpose aircraft.

In general, the German government decided that the "Tornado" will be disabled and replaced during the term of this composition.

It remains only to decide. What will they change them to? Or - as an option - how many F-35s will be purchased specifically for the program of delivery of American nuclear warheads "to the consumer." And what aircraft will provide cover for the shock in terms of electronic warfare.

The previous plan for Germany's participation in carrying American nuclear warheads provided for the purchase of 30 F-18 versions of the "Super Hornet", and 15 F-18 aircraft in the EW version "Growler" were supposed to cover them and fight enemy air defenses with electronic means of war.


Using the calculator, it is easy to calculate that the program of delivery of American nuclear weapons to the enemies of the United States will cost Germany "only" 3 billion US dollars. This is just the purchase of aircraft.

On the one hand, it is surprising that in Germany they generally go on such a more than dubious adventure. Well, if the Americans need it so much in the event of a military conflict, so that the Germans take American bombs on board their planes and fly with them to the borders of Russia (well, it is impossible to imagine German planes flying to bomb China, for example), then America could simply provide equipment for delivering charges ...

The situation is simply incomparable. The height of cynicism, it seems to us.

Germany must buy American planes for its own money in order to hang American nuclear warheads from them and fly to bomb the enemies of the United States with these charges. And it will cost three billion dollars.

Stormy applause, turning into a standing ovation.

Considering that where the German pilots with American bombs are likely to fly, they are well aware of where in Germany THOSE bombs are located (in Büchel and Eifel), it is clear that inevitably you will arrive there from the “other” side. There, too, are not fools sitting. And not the ladies in the leadership.

In general, what the German defense ministers are doing to Frau would look funny if it were not so sad.
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  1. -5
    11 January 2022 05: 32
    And I wonder how Germany still has German planes, not American ones. And why they hadn’t been pushed through F35 earlier.
    1. +3
      11 January 2022 07: 01
      as soon as they begin to buy equipment "on the side", their own industry will inevitably degrade.
    2. 0
      11 January 2022 09: 45
      And I wonder how in the Second World War their grandfathers reached the Volga and their grandchildren degraded to American chewing gum and American aircraft.
      1. +1
        11 January 2022 10: 19
        The Germans lost WW2 and since then have been the "economic colony" of the winners. As, however, the rest of Europe, and the Japanese, and many others.
        1. +7
          11 January 2022 14: 27
          and since then have been an "economic colony"

          This "economic colony" is true, SUDDENLY, "for some reason" surpasses the same Great Britain in GDP per capita.
          and grandchildren degraded to

          They "degraded" to the developed electronic and automotive industries, and together with France - to the aviation industry too (Airbus concern).
          1. -8
            11 January 2022 15: 29
            This is while the Americans ruled the economy of the planet, and they were especially rich in the 90s. And the reduction of the economy for several years in a row will not bring to good, they are smaller than themselves in 2007, and have not come to their senses, so it's just a shadow of the old ones.
            1. +5
              11 January 2022 16: 53
              they are smaller than themselves in 2007

              WHAT? The GDP of Germany in 2007 is 2 billion euros, the GDP of Germany in 393 is 2020 billion euros. This is an economic growth of 3 percent, not a decline.
              1. -3
                11 January 2022 19: 00
                Their real industry began to collapse a long time ago, where negative growth under -10% sometimes reached. What will this GDP show you that huge bubbles have inflated in the financial sector?
                1. -2
                  12 January 2022 10: 50
                  the real industry began to collapse a long time ago

                  And what kind of beast is this - "real industry"?
                  1. 0
                    12 January 2022 19: 49
                    And the one that you can touch with pens and count in tons, liters or pieces, and not just numbers in fin. statements.
                2. 0
                  18 February 2022 03: 58
                  Quote: tohoto
                  Their real industry began to collapse a long time ago, where negative growth under -10% sometimes reached. What will this GDP show you that huge bubbles have inflated in the financial sector?

                  Yes, the Germans have a "real industry" such that God forbid any other country to have. The only developed country (except for oil and gas), which has a constantly positive trade balance with China. The rest of all countries lose to China. But China cannot "shod" Germany in any way, for all the cheapness of its goods. China buys more goods from Germany than Germany from China... And this happens all the time. So the Germans .... these are the Germans. How they work, no one can.
                  1. -2
                    18 February 2022 10: 57
                    Yeah, well, yes, but for many years now its real industry has been declining, it has less than it was in 2007. They are even from the crisis of 2008. didn't come out. No, Germany is no longer the same as it was in the 90s. They cannot complete the construction of the airport in Berlin, their autobahns have begun to deteriorate. They will die for a long time, but rotting is already underway, by the way, maybe very quickly, the Deutsche Bank is still a hole, and energy prices have risen.
              2. 0
                13 January 2022 08: 53
                Somewhere in these numbers inflation is lost and crying wassat
                1. 0
                  18 February 2022 10: 58
                  And they do not consider inflation.
          2. 0
            12 January 2022 12: 58
            Well, different colonies can feel differently and evolve differently from different starting positions.
            The UK, to a greater or lesser extent, lost, for example, the automotive, coal, aviation, tank and other industries. And if we take the period after WW2, then the status of a great power and empire. There is still shipbuilding, we are circling the neck, watching with excitement.
            And the FRG - yes, well done, the coolest of the colonies. Although the status of a great power also lost in WW2 along with the nuclear program, astronautics, science and other things that they had before WW2 even after WW1. And I would not even compare the German aerospace industry with France; rather cheat within Europe, like the Netherlands or Norway, only larger in proportion to size. I don’t remember my German planes and satellites, although I might forget something. Cars - yes, good and a lot. But as soon as possible, so immediately the dieselgate. For the colony, not everything is allowed, alas.
      2. 0
        31 January 2022 18: 08
        Germans have been flying Americans since the 1950s
    3. +4
      11 January 2022 12: 07
      Quote: Artemion3
      And I wonder how Germany still has German planes, not American ones.

      And what are the German planes? Tornado? Joint development UK + Germany + Italy + American type components
      In the bow of the Tornado IDS GR1 there are two Texas Instruments radar stations - GMR and TFR
      The last American "Phantoms" were withdrawn from the German Air Force in 2013. The Eurofighter, which is a Typhoon, is also a joint European aircraft; before that, there were practically only American aircraft in the FRG, with the rare exception of the German-French Alpha Jet and the Italian G-91. And so always the basis of the German Air Force was made up of American aircraft. Well, they povyyzhivalsya for a while, they say, we have everything that is European, well, and that was all over, what they say overseas they will buy.
      1. +1
        11 January 2022 13: 59
        While visiting Germany, I got the impression that the Americans did not allow the Germans to make their planes. Or a license or components. Although the German aircraft industry is powerful. But to make the plane to the end - God forbid.
        1. 0
          11 January 2022 15: 01
          Quote: mmaxx
          the Americans did not allow the Germans to make their planes. Or a license or components. Although the German aircraft industry is powerful. But to make the plane to the end - God forbid.

          So they did not allow Britain to do either, and the French, as soon as they could, pushed sticks in the wheels - Mirage F1 as a single European fighter did not pass. Like a market and nothing more. laughing laughing good
          1. +2
            11 January 2022 15: 42
            The British made a lot of aircraft for the time being. The French too. Even Italians. And Germany is an occupation zone.
    4. +5
      11 January 2022 12: 27
      I'm also wondering why? Here's why. In the photo for the article, not the current Minister of Defense Christine Lambrecht and not the previous Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer about which we are talking, but the previous (2013-2019) Ursula von der Leyen. There is not a word about her in the article, but the replacement of the Tornado was already discussed with her. It is noteworthy that a scandal is even connected with this: one of the generals of the Luftwaffe was dismissed for publicly criticizing her position of NOT purchasing the F-35. Now she has gone even higher - the President of the European Commission. If the Americans ruled inside Germany and Europe, this would not have been possible. All these tales about "vassals" are already sickening to listen to. The Germans are not making a replacement for the F-35 because of politics: they do not want to buy American planes, they do not want to depend on American technology, but there is still no good replacement for the Tornado. All these ministers, and even those before Ursula von der Lein, were simply throwing the problem over to their successors. Do not they buy rafal or flu? And the price has nothing to do with it. Last year, Germany ordered a couple dozen, like twenty Eurofighters, to replace the very first batch received 20 years ago. The cost of one board is ~ 140 million dollars. As you can see, they buy the 4th generation fighter from themselves at a higher price than the Americans of the 5th offer them (~ 80 million). Explain to me someone realties where is the "economic colony" and "hard twisting hands" ??
      1. 0
        11 January 2022 15: 33
        Here the desire to update any equipment in general may well play, no matter how they reduce weapons. And here, because of the squalid park, the question becomes an edge, and the Americans can shove it through.
        1. 0
          11 January 2022 22: 27
          Quote: tohoto
          Here it may well play not the desire to update any technique at all

          "Leopards" they are catching up to the latest version 2A7V. "Wiesel" are going to change. The newest infantry fighting vehicles are being purchased, the NH90 Sea Tiger helicopters have recently been bought. Germany is trying to keep its Armed Forces at a level.

          It is politically more profitable for the Germans to acquire "their" Typhoons. But they are not certified as a carrier of nuclear weapons (specifically, American B61 bombs). To be honest, I don’t know what the problem is.
          Only American cars remain.
          1. +2
            11 January 2022 22: 30
            Quote: Bond James Bond
            But they are not certified as a carrier of nuclear weapons (specifically, American B61 bombs). To be honest, I don’t know what the problem is.

            This certification process provides Americans with access to key Typhoon technologies.
            1. -1
              11 January 2022 22: 50
              Quote: Liam
              This certification process provides Americans with access to key Typhoon technologies.

              and also, for sure, very time-consuming and especially finances (after all, the car will require revision at the physical level, and then also tests). But most importantly, yes, you are right, the Americans will need to drain a large amount of technical information, and it should be especially borne in mind that the Typhoon is not purely German, then this is a problem.
              It's easier for the Germans to abandon the deployment of American nuclear weapons, how many problems they will immediately throw off ...
              1. +1
                11 January 2022 23: 24
                Quote: Bond James Bond
                by time

                Not less than 3-5 years. For the rest of the points, you have outlined everything accurately. Problems of a bureaucratic nature and with the consent of the rest of the concern. Who acquired the F-35 and do not need certification of Typhoon as a nuclear strike. This is a purely German problem. Moreover, in the 6th generation theme, the Typhoon consortium members are on opposite sides of the barricades and have become competitors.
                In general, the mess is still the same. For now, the Germans will extend the Tornado period until 2030. The Germans categorically do not want to lose access to nuclear bombs for very many reasons.
              2. 0
                18 February 2022 04: 04
                Quote: Bond James Bond
                It's easier for the Germans to abandon the deployment of American nuclear weapons, how many problems they will immediately throw off ...

                And "lie down" under Russia .... Do you offer such an exchange? Well, they can't, as everyone here says. The Americans won't.
          2. 0
            12 January 2022 19: 41
            Yes, I somehow remember the Germans crying that their fleet of aircraft was barely alive, half of them would definitely not take off, well, there was no camilfo in tanks, it seemed a little modernized.
            1. 0
              12 January 2022 19: 53
              Quote: tohoto
              Yes, I somehow remember the Germans crying that their fleet of aircraft is barely alive, half of them will definitely not take off, well, there is no camilfo on the tanks.

              Yes, it was, the Germans, by some miracle, launched their aircraft for a while, but the situation has recently been changing.
              For example, in 2020
              The Budget Committee of the German Bundestag has allocated funds of about 2,7 billion euros for the purchase of 31 Sea Tiger multipurpose helicopters (NH90 NFH). The contract also includes spare parts and training. The first Sea Tiger is expected to be delivered to Marineflieger in 2025. The new rotorcraft will replace 24 Westland Sea Lynx Mk. 88 used since the 1980s.
              1. 0
                12 January 2022 19: 56
                At 25, well, somehow they are not in a hurry at all. No, it seems to me that the renewal process will go on very slowly there, after all, anti-militarist sentiments are very strong there and will there be enough money, do they need to develop greenery?
                1. 0
                  18 February 2022 04: 08
                  Quote: tohoto
                  At 25, well, somehow they are not in a hurry at all. No, it seems to me that the renewal process will go on very slowly there, after all, anti-militarist sentiments are very strong there and will there be enough money, do they need to develop greenery?

                  Well, if Russia "hit" Ukraine, then they would even "hurry up" ... And even now, when the Russian grouping of 200 thousand people. stands on the border, ready to rush to the West, then the Germans stirred. They figured that a "march" of 5 thousand tanks and armored vehicles would quickly reach them, bypassing Ukraine ...
      2. 0
        13 January 2022 11: 55
        All 140 million go back to the German economy.
  2. +6
    11 January 2022 05: 35
    What is it about? "Tornado" ended altogether, Eurofighter has ceased to be promising for about 15 years, as in Europe it is not expected to replace it, what else remains for the Germans, the Su-57-75?
  3. -2
    11 January 2022 05: 42
    What is the sadness then? If the Germans voluntarily lose their competence in the national aircraft building, moving into an increasingly dependent position on the United States, then this is beneficial to Russia.
    1. +3
      11 January 2022 06: 28
      - Well, of course: if the Germans instead of less advanced aircraft are armed with more advanced - "it will be beneficial to Russia!" Humorist...
    2. +3
      11 January 2022 07: 14
      That's right, chtol cry about this. Well, they sold them the F-35, well, they gave up their planes and the flag in their hands.
      1. 0
        31 January 2022 18: 11
        Lockheed has such a tradition - to sell their eroplanes to the Germans!
    3. +2
      11 January 2022 14: 33
      If the Germans voluntarily lose their competence in the national aircraft construction

      What other competencies are they "losing"? Germany did not develop a fifth generation fighter from the word "in general". Spending money on the development of one now for Germany is an absolutely useless waste - the Germans are already participating in the joint British-German-French program for the development of the sixth generation FCAS fighter. So they buy from the Americans the aircraft they have already developed.
    4. 0
      11 January 2022 15: 34
      They never had it developed, only the French have all the technology.
  4. -12
    11 January 2022 05: 55
    The Germans are twisting the handles tightly.
    I wonder how much patience they have.
    1. 0
      18 February 2022 04: 11
      Quote: kytx
      The Germans are twisting the handles tightly.
      I wonder how much patience they have.

      And the threat of a Russian invasion of Ukraine does not "twist their hands" in any way? Or do they not care? "Not to us, and okay" ... So what should they think?
  5. -9
    11 January 2022 06: 00
    The Teutons have shrunk, there are no longer those "knights" who bridled Europe, although not Europe already .... Geyrope ... Mm, yes.
    1. +1
      11 January 2022 07: 01
      Oops! Minusators ran. I corrected you as best I could. :)
    2. +2
      11 January 2022 07: 37
      so the Prussians were
  6. 0
    11 January 2022 06: 19
    I wonder what people are counting on. After all, it is clear that the nuclear weapons storage sites will be hit. Masochists or something.
    1. +4
      11 January 2022 06: 29
      - You can't take a nuclear weapons storage facility with conventional bombs. And neither side will be the first to start a nuclear war.
      1. -7
        11 January 2022 07: 51
        All the more reason to strike with non-nuclear weapons. It is enough to destroy the infrastructure around. And by this, to prevent a nuclear war, because no one wants a full-scale war, but tactical nuclear weapons can be used in the heat of the moment ..
        1. AUL
          +4
          11 January 2022 11: 01
          Quote: maksbazhin
          It is enough to destroy the infrastructure around. And by this, to prevent a nuclear war, because no one wants a full-scale war, but tactical nuclear weapons can be used in the heat of the moment ..

          And if tactical nuclear weapons are used, no one will figure it out, in the heat of the moment or with a specialist. Anyone will trigger a full-scale nuclear war.
    2. 0
      18 February 2022 04: 13
      Quote: Lykases1
      I wonder what people are counting on. After all, it is clear that the nuclear weapons storage sites will be hit. Masochists or something.

      Can they completely disarm? After all, the places of "non-nuclear weapons" will also be struck in the event of an armed conflict.
  7. -10
    11 January 2022 06: 20
    if Europe loses its competence in the construction of combat aircraft, that's good. the usa will forever not be able to be at the top, and then we will have a chance to ask the Europeans for everything
    1. +12
      11 January 2022 07: 35
      Quote: Graz
      if Europe loses its competence in the construction of combat aircraft, that's good. the usa will forever not be able to be at the top, and then we will have a chance to ask the Europeans for everything

      how are you going to "make a favor"?
      will you go to their villages and pick up chickens?
      1. -9
        11 January 2022 07: 42
        European countries have not paid off with Russia for another World War 2, they have not paid for what they have done with us and 10%, so we need to take it away
        1. +11
          11 January 2022 10: 04
          So this is exactly what the comrade is asking about.
          Will you take milk, chicken, eggs and schnapps?
    2. 0
      31 January 2022 18: 12
      They knocked from China...
  8. -1
    11 January 2022 07: 37
    Actually what are frau doing ministers of defense of Germany, it would look ridiculous if it were not so sad.

    laughing
    How not to remember here:
  9. Two
    -12
    11 January 2022 07: 54
    We will survive this trouble! A direct indication of the readiness to start the war is the laying of ammunition at the deployed artillery systems and the suspension of air bombs on the planes! "Iskander" flies quickly and accurately, and not necessarily with a "special warhead".
    1. 0
      18 February 2022 04: 16
      Quote: Dos
      We will survive this trouble! A direct indication of the readiness to start the war is the laying of ammunition at the deployed artillery systems and the suspension of air bombs on the planes! "Iskander" flies quickly and accurately, and not necessarily with a "special warhead".

      That is why the Germans want to arm themselves. Nuclear Iskanders were "hung" right under their noses in Kaliningrad and you want them to "disarm" ... Are they our slaves?
  10. -9
    11 January 2022 08: 14
    Well, she must quickly get some money, why else did she come to the position. The size of the bribe is being discussed. Germans have a passion for wunderwaves.
  11. 0
    11 January 2022 08: 29
    Quote: kytx
    The Germans are twisting the handles tightly.
    I wonder how much patience they have.

    Well, as the Germans kick out the US occupation forces from their territory, they will immediately begin to develop import substitution of their air forces.
    1. +5
      11 January 2022 09: 08
      They won't do anything. And they will not be kicked out and the competence will not be restored. The current aircraft industry is not the level of the Second World War. If you fell behind, it’s already forever. Today in Europe, perhaps the French in military aviation can do something, well, the Swedes still somehow hold on. The rest were all blown away. And they were blown away for a long time. The last really successful European project was the Tornado.
      1. 0
        31 January 2022 18: 13
        China is perplexed
      2. 0
        April 9 2022 12: 30
        The Swedes are still pushing.
        But!!!
        They also use European technologies with might and main.
        assemblers can say
        But their planes are decent in the end.
    2. -1
      31 January 2022 18: 13
      The Germans are essentially a broken nation.
  12. +1
    11 January 2022 08: 39
    "Germany should buy American planes for its own money in order to hang American nuclear charges on them and fly to bomb the enemies of the USA with these charges" - and fly to bomb Germany's enemies. Germany needs the United States to ensure its security from Russia much more than the United States needs Germany. If the Germans want to be able to fend off hypothetical (!) Russian tanks with nuclear weapons, then they must make some efforts in this direction. For example, by purchasing suitable delivery vehicles. The Americans themselves will provide a bonus as a bonus.
    1. +5
      11 January 2022 09: 51
      Quote: ares1988
      "Germany should buy American planes for its own money in order to hang American nuclear charges on them and fly to bomb the enemies of the USA with these charges" - and fly to bomb Germany's enemies. Germany needs the United States to ensure its security from Russia much more than the United States needs Germany. If the Germans want to be able to fend off hypothetical (!) Russian tanks with nuclear weapons, then they must make some efforts in this direction. For example, by purchasing suitable delivery vehicles. The Americans themselves will provide a bonus as a bonus.

      I also did not quite understand this thesis ... the German Air Force has a task stipulated in the country's defense doctrine, and accordingly funds are needed to carry it out. The existing equipment is incapable of this, produced by Germany, too, accordingly, it is necessary either to resume the production of Tornadoes (which is impossible, since the line has been closed for almost a quarter of a century, and in general they were assembled jointly by all of Europe) or to buy foreign ones. The question arises, what to buy? Here, either American or French (of course, there are Swedes as well, but I'm not sure if they can carry nuclear weapons) ... a French plane is no better than a typhoon ...
      1. -1
        11 January 2022 22: 34
        Quote: parma
        Here either American or French

        Germans won't buy French in principle. As well as Swedish. And it doesn't matter if their planes have the ability to carry nuclear weapons. Here is our Su-24, for example, maybe the French Rafale can. But, even if we assume a fantastic situation that the Teutons had these planes, Are they certified to carry American B61 bombs? (there are no others in Germany)? Of course not. That's the whole story ...
        1. 0
          31 January 2022 18: 15
          The French really do not want to allow the Americans to certify Rafal, so he will not be in the Luftwaffe
  13. +6
    11 January 2022 08: 53
    The litigation between supporters of the "American" and "European" choice over the replacement of the "Tornado" in Germany has been dragging on for the fifth year. In 2018, Air Force Commander Müllner was even retired from his offer to buy an F-35. Now the next stage of the epic with an unknown outcome, although time is running out.
    1. +2
      12 January 2022 10: 14
      The German Air Force is still behind the F-35.
      But industrialists are putting pressure on the government: Typhoon means jobs.
  14. +1
    11 January 2022 08: 58
    The Tornado was not a station wagon, but on the basis of it they made but these are different aircraft, the same interceptor was longer than the base car due to fuel and Skyflash missiles.
  15. +8
    11 January 2022 09: 05
    Thousands of pilots have already flown the F-35 and they probably like it.
    1. +6
      11 January 2022 11: 20
      In confirmation of your words:
      750 F-35 Lightning IIs are now in service around the world, operating from 30 bases and ships. More than 1585 pilots and 11 maintenance technicians have been trained, and the F-545 aircraft has flown approximately 35 hours.
  16. -1
    11 January 2022 09: 23
    The French are still smarter than the Germans in this matter and are more independent.
    1. 0
      11 January 2022 22: 40
      Quote: Ryaruav
      The French are still smarter than the Germans in this matter and are more independent.

      it was Germany, not France, that was the occupation zone. France is generally listed as one of the winners in WWII.
      Also, do not forget that France was not a NATO member from 1966 to 2009. Therefore, they had their own tanks, and their planes, and their own missiles. And there was no American nuclear weapons on their territory.
      1. nks
        +1
        12 January 2022 21: 23
        Quote: Bond James Bond
        In addition, do not forget that France was not a member of NATO from 1966 to 2009.

        This is not entirely true. During this period, France was not present in the military structures of NATO, but was in the political. When he returned in 2009, the only thing that essentially changed was that France was able to have its representatives in these same military structures. It participates in NATO military operations at its own discretion, as it was before 2009, because the binding 5th paragraph of the NATO charter has never been activated.

        Quote: Bond James Bond
        That's why they had their own tanks, and their own planes, and their own missiles.

        These things are not particularly related. NATO does not (and there is nothing like that in the regulations) that everyone should have American weapons, and, as you can see from the example of other old NATO members, this was not the case. In the military-technical aspect, the development of common standards is expected. French military equipment is made according to these standards and thus it is NATO equipment. By the way, MADL is currently not a NATO technical standard and its imposition is contrary to the regulations.


        Quote: Bond James Bond
        And there was no American nuclear weapons on their territory.

        And this is the third completely separate issue. By the way, even now France is not included in the NATO Nuclear Planning Group.
  17. 0
    11 January 2022 11: 06
    This could bury the 5th generation French projects too ... Germany is a good partner and client ...
    1. nks
      +1
      12 January 2022 21: 28
      Quote: Zaurbek
      This could bury 5th generation French projects too.

      Hmm, what are these?

      Quote: Zaurbek
      Germany is good both partner and customer ...

      Germany is a very problematic partner (this is very clearly seen in joint programs, both old and modern) and absolutely no client in this aspect - they basically will not buy finished products (not individual components) from EU partners (this is such patriotism from the largest EU country by population), but from the USA - pzhsta!
  18. -2
    11 January 2022 12: 22
    their crosses on planes and tanks ... get on your nerves
    1. 0
      11 January 2022 12: 44
      How do you like Ukrainian symbols?
      There are also crosses on the technique.
  19. +7
    11 January 2022 12: 40
    Neither the EF-2000, nor the F / A-18E, nor the F-35 currently have certification for the use of the B-61 thermonuclear bomb.

    At the same time, the F-35A is the closest to obtaining it, as it is necessary for the USAF. At the same time, of course, all the costs of integration and certification are borne by the United States. So in this case, Germany comes to everything ready.

    The US Navy has phased out the use of tactical nuclear weapons on tactical carrier-based aircraft since the end of the Cold War. If the classic "Hornets" had the equipment for the platoon of nuclear weapons, then the super hornets do not have this anymore. Again, integration and certification is quite expensive and someone has to pay for it. The US Navy is not interested in this, so the Germans would pay for the most part.

    Next, EF-2000. Everything here is generally quite sad, since the board is not American, it was not immediately intended to carry nuclear weapons, and integration and certification for the B-61 would be the most expensive for it. The issue of financing is also quite acute. The concern is of course European, but only Germany needs it. I don’t think that Great Britain, Italy or Spain will be ready to participate in this project.

    Moreover, the Europeans have already voiced concerns about this project, since for this they would have to issue a lot of information on the US board. And no matter how some here do not think that NATO countries are just puppets of the United States, the reality is somewhat different, and no one canceled their own interests and OpSec.

    It turns out that, in principle, it will be most beneficial for the Germans to take the F-35, especially if they can find other use for it other than purely fulfilling their obligations as a nuclear bomb carrier. And such an application can always be found for a given aircraft :)
    1. -3
      11 January 2022 13: 24
      The US Navy has phased out the use of tactical nuclear weapons on tactical carrier-based aircraft since the end of the Cold War. If the classic "Hornets" had the equipment for the platoon of nuclear weapons, then the super hornets do not have this anymore.

      - How long will it take to install such equipment on each aircraft? One hour, or a whole hour and a half? wink laughing
      1. +7
        11 January 2022 14: 00
        Sticking in the block - maybe a couple of hours or less. But to carry out communications (wiring, connectors), update the VCS, test all this in all sorts of conditions, write documentation, certify, and so on - most likely several years and thousands or tens of thousands of man-hours from various organizations and specialists :)
        1. -4
          11 January 2022 14: 56
          ... most likely several years and thousands or tens of thousands of man-hours from various organizations and specialists :)

          - Do not be ridiculous: everything depends on the will and commands of the management, - they will order, - everything will be done, tested (the equipment is ready, built-in control) and formalized in a maximum of two weeks.
          1. 0
            18 February 2022 04: 22
            Quote: Outsider
            - Do not be ridiculous: everything depends on the will and commands of the management, - they will order, - everything will be done, tested (the equipment is ready, built-in control) and formalized in a maximum of two weeks.

            Do not confuse, they do not have Putin's system there - "everything depends on the will of the leadership" ...
  20. -9
    11 January 2022 12: 41
    Once again I am convinced that there are no friends of mattress makers, only "sixes"))) and the Washington Reich Chancellery is not shy about its methods, explaining to its "sixes" that their place is "on the cockpit"))))
    1. 0
      11 January 2022 13: 29
      - And then you need to put the power on and continue: ... unlike Russia, which has:
      1. Her army.
      2. Her fleet.
      3. Her videoconferencing.
      4. Its Strategic Missile Forces.
      5. ? Who else? Who went to her "roosters"?
      ..
      n. ?
      1. 0
        11 January 2022 19: 41
        As for me, such friends are quite enough. Because, as Churchill said: "Having such friends, enemies are already necessary"))) you must understand, he meant his overseas friends.
    2. 0
      18 February 2022 04: 24
      Quote: TermNachTER
      Once again I am convinced that there are no friends of mattress makers, only "sixes"))) and the Washington Reich Chancellery is not shy about its methods, explaining to its "sixes" that their place is "on the cockpit"))))

      And in Russia, all these CSTO countries are "not six"? Or can we, but they can't? Who are you criticizing?
  21. 0
    11 January 2022 15: 19
    Europe slept on the 5th pok.
    Eats a joint project 6. pok. But it's so far away.
    They will buy the F 35A as they bought the Starfighter.
    1. -1
      18 February 2022 04: 30
      Quote: CastroRuiz
      Europe slept on the 5th pok.
      Eats a joint project 6. pok. But it's so far away.
      They will buy the F 35A as they bought the Starfighter.

      Don't talk nonsense. The Europeans really won. The Americans "swelled" unmeasured money into the F-35, brought it to the required level, which also cost a lot. Rolled out production. And now they are selling cheaper than European Tufons of the 4th generation. Why does Germany need such spending on development? Yes, they will not pull them. The development of ever new fighters is an increasingly expensive thing. Soon the Americans alone will not be able to do it, they will have to unite with the Europeans. And now the Germans can buy a ready-made F-35 at a very reasonable price. They understand this, it's just that pride hasn't allowed it until now. "They say, we can do everything ourselves" ... Yes, now they understand that they cannot ...
  22. +2
    11 January 2022 15: 33
    It's not just about the ability to carry nuclear weapons.
    It's also about the exchange of information between NATO planes.
    The F-35 has an information exchange protocol without radio communications:
    Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL)
    Typhoons will have to turn on their radios.
    And they turn out to be noisy "dinosaurs". And they will not be able to participate in air battles.
    1. +2
      11 January 2022 17: 34
      - It's all about stealth, first of all... All aircraft have tactical information exchange. And in the Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL), it is also performed via radio waves ...
  23. -1
    11 January 2022 17: 48
    Last year, Germany ordered a couple dozen, like twenty Eurofighters, to replace the very first batch received 20 years ago. The cost of one board is ~ 140 million dollars. Apparently they they themselves buy a 4th generation fighter at a higher price, what the Americans are offering them on the 5th (~ 80 million). Can anyone explain to me where is the "economic colony" and "hard twisting of the arms" ??
    It seems to me that in Germany they overpay their producers,
    those. the labor of a local manufacturer is highly valued. For instance:
    I have saved a calculation of Siemens communication equipment from 2000.
    Communication complex and two "baskets" one on top of the other, all together a little higher
    gas stove. It still works. Each basket is included in 220 with its own cord.
    Standard network cord, computer. In the calculation, the price is -12 euros !! 2 pcs.
    I was and forgot about it. And more recently, power supplies were needed for
    Siemens IP phones (format like a laptop) Ordered, an hour later they call - you will take
    with or without cords? What's the difference, I ask? PSU -30 euros, power cord to it
    10- euro !!. No, thanks. (The firm bought 100 flat-panel monitors.
    standard power cord. You come to the table - you take off the old monitor, put it on the new one
    that cable (why climb under the table?) As a result, there are two hundred and two cords in cellophane in the closet)
    Well, why does a German need 12 euros for a meter and a half of cable with a plug?
    12 x 31,25 = 375 UAH = 10 KG BUCKET !!! = 5 BOTTLES OF VODKA!
  24. 0
    12 January 2022 16: 49
    This whole complex scheme of using American Yao is caused by a very simple thing: the United States does not want the Germans to have their own Yao ...
    It is somewhat surprising that the authors of the article are surprised by this ...
  25. 0
    13 January 2022 12: 01
    Everything is fine in this article: amer's tactical nuclear weapons, aircraft, their interests, attention to the question! And here Germany, where are its interests ???
  26. 0
    31 January 2022 18: 06
    Germany is not an independent country, no wonder.

    This statement did not cause any controversy among the Germans with whom I was in contact.
  27. 0
    31 January 2022 18: 12
    Quote: Ol Willy
    Germany is not an independent country, no wonder.

    This statement did not cause any controversy among the Germans with whom I was in contact.

    Germany with a GDP under 4 trillion, being the leader of the EU is not independent? Who is? In Europe, who...
    Whoever knocks louder on the "table" is the same independent, so what .. laughing

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