Military Review

Reflections on "free"

479

Having undertaken to write the second planned article of the cycle, I realized that I would very much like to work through one moment in the introduction, which I met en masse in the comments earlier.


Having started to write this introduction, I was suddenly confronted with the fact that there was a whole article, and the size of such an "introduction" does not go into any gate. So, readers will forgive me, this will not be the second part of the cycle (the first is still being moderated) - but it will be an important branch.

Many commentators were sincerely perplexed, seeing my position in relation to "free" Soviet things - free medicine, education, apartments.

Readers sincerely believed that this is a masterpiece, a kind of climax, which must be recorded in top success.

Well, I need to clarify my point of view!

To begin with, it is worthwhile to understand that there is very little “free” and, moreover, material around us. As a rule, they approach the "free" gifts of nature of one kind or another - and where a person has worked on a product in one way or another, this product has a price that is made up of costs.

Free accommodation


Conditional free housing thus consists of conditionally paid work of designers, builders, on the creation and operation of construction equipment, cement, reinforced concrete, iron for this reinforced concrete, logistics, earthmoving work, man-hours and material costs for production absolutely all related products within this process.

Perhaps for some it will be unexpected, but in this the building of socialist states is completely analogous to the building of capitalist countries.

Moreover, if conditional cement or rolled metal is an opportunity to float abroad for bоIf the price is higher than inside the country, then it will also be safely floated there, and this, in turn, means that the conditional value of many things (material resources, fuel, technology) inside socialist construction will be very close to analogues in capitalist construction.

Of course, there will be a speculative premium for this, which, however, can be partially compensated by more skillful logistics, higher labor productivity, better technological elaboration of a number of processes that reduce material costs (innovations).

That is, in material terms, the resources from which socialist housing is created, at a cost always will be roughly comparable to those used in capitalist housing. If they will are equivalent.

In addition to material and technical resources, a substantial part of the cost of housing is the cost of man-hours directly for builders, designers, etc. This cost within individual states (especially isolated ones) can really be kept several times lower than in those more closely tied to the world market.

And at this point we come to the heart of the matter - for example, the good USSR builds free housing for its citizens, while for the good USSR this housing costs (at least in material costs) comparable to the cost in capitalist countries, that is, the state pays money for this to himself and to his employees, who are clamoring in mines, factories, etc.

This leads us to the fact that in the calculations at the state level a certain figure, the price of "free", involuntarily appears.

This figure also includes the man-hours of the builders, and - since each builder also participates in the free housing program, in his remuneration should a certain amount will be included, which he will not see in his eyes, but which will monthly go to the fund for the cost of his future housing.

The same mechanism will apply to all free housing program members as long as it is a comprehensive program.

That is, the state will pick up money for this is "free" with all participants in the production chain.

Apart from taxes, of course.

But back to the builders.

In order for them to build with high quality and there was an influx of human resources into construction, accordingly, it is necessary that the salary of the builder, even minus this money, be decent. If we are talking about mass construction, then there should be a lot of builders (as well as participants in the scheme behind mass construction in general) - and all of them should receive good money already behind deduction.

This money needs to be taken from somewhere, and, therefore, there is a hidden rise in price or a hidden increase in the tax burden, or the state begins to "print candy wrappers".

Typically, these are all three measures.

That is, "free" apartments also rise in price (according to the costs appearing in the calculations) - and since they rise in price, you need toоit is better to pay the employees of the entire chain of the hidden part of the salary that is deducted for the "free". Or the moment they receive housing is conditionally postponed.

So, the above indicates that "free" housing is also inevitably a participant in market schemes, its creation works according to the principle "20 plow - one gets."

On the whole, this is a good scheme; I have no complaints about the principle.

However, to consequences principle claim becomes.

As noted above, the mass construction of housing creates the problem of its hidden rise in price, and therefore the state is forced to find methods to reduce the cost of construction.

In this formulation, as you know, both good and bad are hidden.

This is the way of large-scale standard projects - weak from an aesthetic and ergonomic point of view. In such a project, the compromise between convenience and practicality will always lean towards practicality, and at the end we will get microscopic kitchens, unused balconies, weak sound and heat insulation, dubious footage and other delights.

All these problems have fully shown themselves in the Khrushchevs.

Further, moving along the path of reducing costs, the state will seek to save on building materials - where possible, using dubious or short-lived materials, reducing potential maintainability.

Despite all this, the bulk of those waiting will not receive housing at once - they will have to plow for many years and live in communal apartments, barracks, dilapidated housing of old structures, or simply crowded.

Even in a static state, it takes quite a long time, but, as you understand, a person, among other things, also multiplies - therefore, the situation here is not static. Considering the increase in population during the period of large-scale construction and the preceding one, this creates additional problems.

Within the borders of another state, perhaps part of the housing price could be compensated for by the excess profits received abroad - and that would be reasonable. But the USSR was not such a state - firstly, it did business extremely weakly, secondly, a solid part of the margin flowed away in the form of assistance to all sorts of brothers, and thirdly, finally, it should be understood that a solid piece of what was left was spent on militarization, heavy industry and space.

I think it is unnecessary to explain what a tiny fraction of this went into housing construction, given the need to build housing for tens of millions people.

Actually, in this regard, we are entering the home stretch for free housing - it was not free.

In fact, the mechanism of "free" housing in the USSR existed in the form of a hidden, compulsory mortgage, at the end of which the employee received housing of a very narrow range of choices (due to standard projects), often of very average quality, and, importantly, he still continued to pay after that hidden mortgage.

With all this, this housing was not the property of a citizen - he could not leave it as an inheritance in the classical sense, which we now understand.

It is also worth noting that, despite the presence of money and market elements, the opportunity due to the accumulated money influence and to form wishes within this scheme was very limited.

Thus, as a rule, "prosperous" or economical people by the standards of the USSR could not realize their super-needs. The direction of cooperative construction existed, but developed poorly, since the command-administrative-planning system experienced logical competition from its side for personnel and materials and, in this regard, passively suppressed such activity.

So, to summarize - “free” housing was not “free” - a citizen paid for it both before and after (do not forget that people in the USSR were forced to work and tried for parasitism), in fact, in the form of a life mortgage.

Since there were a lot of people willing to buy housing - the quality of such housing for the most part left much to be desired - in the absence of clear mechanisms of influencing this quality through money.

In the era of the late USSR, they knew how to create more or less necessary housing, but by the time of its more or less massive deployment across the country, Khrushchev and block houses would have to be massively replaced - and this probably means that the quality of construction would again break through the baseboard.

The dwelling was not “privatized”.

Housing queues in terms of terms often corresponded or exceeded modern mortgages.

I think I've listed enough to make it clear why I can't write "free" housing into a masterpiece of success. It was, in fact, an alternative to commercial construction, as a result of which, as such, only the mass construction of human beings by the very end of the USSR could be considered a success.

The system itself was not something extraordinary.

At the time of the post-war reconstruction, it was very cool, but as the distance from the Great Patriotic War was removed, the system itself became less and less consistent with the growing demands of society and the growth of the middle class, becoming more and more a rudiment.

Until the housing issue was closed, even in 1991, there was still a very long time, a significant mass of people lived anyhow.

Free medicine


By analogy with housing, free medicine has similar problems.

There are slightly different resources involved, lower prices, lower man-hours, but this does not mean that “free” was free - within the planning system there were estimated funds for each person involved.

It must be said right away that the system itself was really good at the time of the exit from the Civil War, industrialization and the end of the Great Patriotic War.

This somewhat, however, obscures the fact that in the Soviet Union there were simply no alternatives to it - the market mechanisms brought NEP to the handle, which they, in general, remained after the NEP.

A working, medical practitioner could receive good income, but outside this system he would automatically find himself in the category comparable to the Nepman, and his fate would be very sad. Not to mention the fact that the population of the USSR, almost before the war itself and for a long time after, did not boast about money.

So free, general medicine was the only solution.

Free education provided an array of specialists for it. Industrialization and the chemical industry under construction created cheap mass medicines for it and the ability to massively fight diseases - here I really take off my hat, Sanepid was developed at the state level on a very large scale: there was a promotion of healthy lifestyles, and hygiene, etc.

The system itself has made a colossal contribution to the reconstruction of the country - this cannot be taken away.

But we are moving on - now, the country has been restored, the Great Patriotic War has died down, the USSR has become a superpower.

What happens next?

Gone are the terrible epidemics, people were treated for tetanus, tuberculosis, smallpox. The standard of living has grown, mortality has fallen, and life expectancy has increased. Parameters such as innovation, prevention and fight against senile and age-related diseases, the development of the latest methods of treatment and surgery, the invention of time-appropriate technology for these methods, the introduction of new views on the treatment of diseases based on new world-class data came to the fore for physicians. - the genetics is the same.
This is where the wave of problems of this system becomes clear, which can be briefly formulated as the presence of two: confusion with the introduction of innovations and chaos with financing and distribution.

Mass medicine worked perfectly with the treatment of pre-war diseases, with their prevention, but with the post-war - everything was much more complicated.

It was necessary to create a whole shaft of medicines for new diseases, including more rare ones, test them, introduce and launch new production facilities.

All this was done with a creak within the framework of the command-administrative system, often there was a fierce struggle for funding, and therefore the issues that seemed insignificant to the planners were dragged out - regardless of whether the sufferers had money on hand.

These people had to get some drugs abroad or just quietly crawl to Valhalla. The problem worsened over time and was compounded by ever-increasing military spending and technological backwardness.

The cost of medicine in the world has been increasing over the years, drugs are becoming more and more, and the drugs themselves are often very expensive, because long life and a bad environment, as well as the fact that progress has reduced child mortality and increased survival - new generations of people have been launched, full chronic and genetic diseases, new pathogens resistant to antibiotics, new viruses mutating within an ever-growing population.

We are seeing all this now - all this existed during the mature USSR. And the command-administrative system coped with this less and less effectively, supplying physicians with new means more and more weakly (for an increasing range of problems), responding more and more slowly to objective needs.

One of the not very pleasant moments of medicine in the USSR was the existing segregation - there was, as it were, general medicine, as well as branch and even elite, "Kremlin" medicine. These factions, among other things, differed in supply - the last two had access to foreign drugs and technology. The first, the most widespread, lagged behind them more and more steeply, by the end of the USSR it had actually turned into some kind of separate kingdom.

Even with money and objective need, a person “from the street” could not get inside various elite segments on time, the bureaucracy shook him while some cancer progressed.

The work of Soviet free medicine also showed itself not from the best side during the Chernobyl disaster. It turned out that, despite the thirty-year practice of large-scale NPP construction and nuclear tests, medicine is completely unprepared for such a development of events - neither at the preparative level, nor at the organizational level.

It is worth noting that the peculiarities of the "binding" of the population to medical institutions created such a bad phenomenon as the growing lack of alternatives for specialists.

This led to the fact that the personal and professional qualities of specialists could be multiplied by the bureaucracy, and this prolonged questions, worsened the quality of service, introduced such an unhealthy phenomenon as "bakshish", which accelerated the ramified bureaucracy.

It was extremely inconvenient for a person, even with money and need, to effectively solve an important issue for him if the local environment hindered this, because the state literally nailed him down and attributed him wherever possible.

Now we can (in theory) choose one of 100 dental clinics in our area, then everything was different - and the doctor was the first after God, and the materials with which he worked were mostly designed to eliminate the problem and affected much less. the aesthetic side.

It was also a very poorly researched question.

Before you speak phi - think about how important aesthetics is to you personally today. In your clothes, in your appearance.

Free medicine completely ignored this factor, among other things.

Her task was to get the worker to his feet so that he would continue swinging the hammer and sickle.

These are also good qualities, but the trouble is that there were no alternatives at least some serious, and correspondingly, people who had extra money did not let them into the economy or the development of medicine or the development of medical technologies within this system - this money was wasted.

It should be recalled that in the USSR there was general secrecy and secrecy for Western information, as well. Branched chains of access to foreign press and not always promptly processed translations for domestic highly specialized periodicals, insufficient circulations of these periodicals, low interaction between industries in requests for the required modern technology - all these were also puzzles of the problem, contributing to the lagging behind the quality of our medicine from foreign ones.

I summarize.

Prophylaxis and vaccinations were well organized, and they effectively fought against massive problems and epidemics. However, extremely ineffective mechanisms for introducing innovations, the segregation of unified medicine into elite fragments, a very poor market response, an increasingly stuck bureaucracy, an increased uncontested dependence on a specialist on the spot - as a result, they drove Soviet free medicine into the abyss of a decline in its level.

In this regard, I, again, cannot call this system a masterpiece or a success.

PS

The author is quite well aware of the progress, despite all this, in the fields of cardiac surgery, nuclear medicine, and transplantology. The development of these areas took place, as a rule, on some branch islands, and their funding was “knocked out” separately, not at the systemic, but at the personal level. The fruits of such developments could, unfortunately, go to the masses for years. Within the framework of the system, over time, all this became more and more the exception than the rule - this is what I would like to point out to people who piously believe in the combination of free and super-efficient.

Free education


The main task of free education was the earliest possible release of ready-made, highly qualified specialists for specific industries.

As long as the world was simple and the tasks were simple, everything was magical.

If we look at the first third of the XNUMXth century, and in fact until the end of the forties, we will see that specialists at the junction of sciences are much less in demand - because there was much less understanding of the importance of the junction of scientific activity itself. Physicists worked separately from chemists, the theory of matter was still developing, in biology and agriculture they had not yet finished off the heretics-vitalists.

With the end of the Great Patriotic War, the development of missile, nuclear and electronic technologies, a wave of information literally fell on the heads of Soviet education, which needed to be clothed in planning future industries and specialties for them.

At that time, this daunting task was mostly successful - probably, the talented and still fresh bureaucracy at all levels played its role here. But even then it was possible to notice the prerequisites for a technical lag that we had start to compensate ahead of time, releasing more specialists in a more flexible profile, at the intersection of sciences, a more educated bureaucracy, more sophisticated and disruptive economists.

Just as we had successfully established the activities of OSOAVIAKHIM, various sports societies - with production and sports of high achievements, it was necessary to build a vertical line of work with talented youth in the electronic, physical, chemical and management areas. Over the years, this kind of work is becoming more and more pure formalism (in comparison with, again, rather effectively built interaction in sports). Soviet specialists, especially technical ones, were well trained in depth, but they were less well trained in breadth, paying even less attention to the training of organizational and coordination personnel.

This was expressed, in particular, in the fact that with the departure of the “old bureaucracy” from the State Planning Committee, their change did not become qualitatively better or more efficiently to plan, did not contribute to the widespread introduction of information technologies (as opposed to their Western colleagues), although even then it was quite clear how such a view simplifies work and increases its efficiency (and this was already clear in the 70s even for a number of elites in Latin America, the same Allende).

The education of the highest officials of the state, members of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, the bulk of the deputies was also far from perfect in comparison with the requirements commensurate with their positions.

The education of journalists-observers, state propagandists - was also, from my point of view, artless, the product created by these people was competitively or quantitatively inferior to the Western product. Soviet economists have shown themselves, in my opinion, rather mediocre, giving birth to one unsuccessful reform (cost accounting, anti-alcohol campaign, permitting cooperative activities) within the system after another.

All this suggests that the undoubted advantage of the free education of the USSR was the graduation of grassroots technical specialists, the rise of the general intellectual level of the population to a fairly good level, certain specialties of certain industries also deserve all respect - but to talk about the general life-giving force of a certain “Soviet free educational system ”, I would not risk it, because the fruits of this system could also be worthless and unprofessional, inert in thinking, insufficiently receptive and creative - in comparison, in my opinion, with their Western colleagues.

And these qualities, as we know, with the development of scientific and technological progress and the increasing demands of society, became more and more important..

The formation of the USSR did not give enough influence to the formation of creative, collegial, and often individual qualities that contribute to the release of specialists for larger and more complex tasks than the bottom of production.

A well-processed ideological screw was formed, capable of "screwing" into the existing system and being a reliable part of it - not an advanced one, not inhibiting - namely: reliable, and in the second place - professional.

And it was precisely this basic requirement that had already been violated by the middle of the 70s - ideological processing began to decline steadily, the graduated specialists in this field were unprofessional, not creative, the bureaucracy managing their activities was also not flexible and did not know how to form intelligible, feasible tasks for them. ... As with everyone else, unfortunately.

I summarize.

In my opinion, the USSR achieved a good level of basic education, defeated illiteracy, strengthened its scientific school and produced excellent technical specialists - all this, however, by the beginning of the 80s, we also see in the West, and partly in the East.

Judging by the fact that the foreign society developed more dynamically than ours, their GDP was catching up (and the Japanese did overtake ours altogether), it can be assumed that they also quite effectively solved the problems with the education of people - and the fact that their technical specialists did not occupy " golden "places at some Olympiads, did not interfere with the progress of their industry, microelectronics, fundamental physics, genetics, computer science and so on.

Some of the readers may point out to me that these industries in the West were pretty much fueled by "Russian minds" - and rightly so!

But why did this happen?

Because other "Russian minds" were not capable enough in their activities to create a worthy place for such people in their homeland. And they sailed with their ideas to other states.

For me, this is also a problem of education - a problem of the educational complex.

In the West, a person who has received an education can receive something else that expands his capabilities, contributes to work at the junction, etc.

In the USSR, education was free - but getting a second, unnecessary for the state, but necessary for a person, in my opinion, such an opportunity experienced certain obstacles, as, in fact, the conduct of personal activities.

It was a pretty strong deterrent developmentand this factor worked against us.

It is for these reasons that I do not consider the free education of the USSR to be some kind of extraordinary masterpiece - you should not overestimate it, there was a completely effective alternative to it.

The overall result


In this article, my main task was not to discredit the USSR at all, as it might seem to many who were not very distant and who were looking for simple answers.

My task was to isolate what contributed or hindered our progress as a country.

Many of these free things in the idea and at the initial stages were extremely important, interesting, effective in their own way, etc. But if each such mechanism is disassembled, there will also be visible irreparable disadvantages, inevitably shifting what we called socialism. towards market relations.

These concepts are still relevant, they also appeal to me personally, contrary to the conclusions of the article - I believe that they are possible and even necessary to be finalized and, within reasonable limits, to have and develop in a modern state.

But so also in such a way that the work of these mechanisms could not damage development and quality, so that the system, which includes them, meets the growing needs of society and the state, and also does not yield to foreign counterparts in progress.
Author:
479 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, daily additional materials that do not get on the site: https://t.me/topwar_ru

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. rocket757
    rocket757 11 January 2022 18: 18
    +14
    Total ... free, only cheese in a mousetrap, and even then, you have to be able to get it, preserved entirely and free.
    The allegory is so-so, but the general meaning, the article is consonant.
    The USSR was not a paradise on earth, well, there cannot be such places on earth at all ...
    1. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 11 January 2022 18: 51
      .
      Yesterday, in the Opinions section, in the article "Kazakhstan or 30 Years of Dead-End Development of the USSR", in the comments I wrote about free cheese in a mousetrap.
      Received a lot of criticism.
      You have to pay for everything in life.
      The Union, providing us with a "free" apartment, medicine, education, etc., paid everyone less (or more precisely, the minimum) wages.
      With this money, we received "free" nishtyaks.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 11 January 2022 18: 59
        +24
        Quote: Blacksmith 55
        paid everyone a lower (or more precisely, the minimum) wage.

        Come to Russia and live on the minimum wage.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 11 January 2022 19: 37
          +9
          To work with the minimum wage, then, it was still necessary to try, be able to!
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 11 January 2022 19: 39
            +8
            Quote: rocket757
            To work with the minimum wage, then, it was still necessary to try, be able to!

            My sister got a little more from working as a nurse.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 11 January 2022 19: 42
              +4
              And who prevented her from studying to be a doctor, a paramedic, to enlist in ... in general, it was possible to find options.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 11 January 2022 19: 45
                0
                Quote: rocket757
                enlist in ...

                What? Where? recourse
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 11 January 2022 19: 50
                  +11
                  To the shipping company, to the Komsomol construction sites, to the north and .... you can list for a long time.
                  1. antivirus
                    antivirus 11 January 2022 21: 16
                    +10
                    a "girl" (with her husband) returned to our house after 30 years in Norilsk - a nurse .. there are no problems with money.

                    Hmelyisuneli smells. it is necessary to compare free housing-medicine from the beginning of the 20th century - see Ionych Chekhov, Veresaev, etc.
                    tasks of the 20th century VKPb-KPSS completed.

                    dare, critics, in the 21st century, storm new heights.
                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 11 January 2022 22: 28
                      +18
                      The Soviet state had different periods of development, but the general line on the development of the state and ensuring the normal life of the working people, it always withstood !!!
                    2. your vsr 66-67
                      your vsr 66-67 12 January 2022 15: 47
                      +4
                      I wanted more money and a car - I went to BAM! I used to earn maybe 1000 a month, in the 80s, and did not regret anything
                      1. Aag
                        Aag 12 January 2022 23: 45
                        +1
                        Quote: your vsr 66-67
                        I wanted more money and a car - I went to BAM! I used to earn maybe 1000 a month, in the 80s, and did not regret anything

                        Plus to you from me, - more out of solidarity for Those times.
                        But, somehow we, in those days, nevertheless, was more honored by a different impulse. Excuse me - usefulness to the Motherland, romance ... It's clear - the eternal desire of a person to live better has not been canceled (although, it seems, the official ideology was denied). But, unlike the current one, not at the expense of others !!!
                  2. ermak124.0
                    ermak124.0 11 January 2022 22: 14
                    +3
                    Since we are on the VO, we will remember that it was possible to enlist through the RVK and into a group of troops. Civilian.
                  3. V means B
                    V means B 11 January 2022 23: 32
                    -2
                    To the French legion)))))
                2. Cypa
                  Cypa 12 January 2022 09: 16
                  0
                  Or to the PZD or to the Red Army
              2. Civil
                Civil 12 January 2022 08: 29
                +3
                Quote: rocket757
                And who prevented her from studying to be a doctor, a paramedic, to enlist in ... in general, it was possible to find options.

                Who will do the nurse's job? Or will everyone be bosses?
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 12 January 2022 09: 55
                  +4
                  There was enough work with low wages, but this did not limit the availability of all the social benefits that the state provided.
              3. Stas157
                Stas157 12 January 2022 13: 33
                +9
                Quote: rocket757
                And who prevented her from learning to the doctor, a paramedic, to enlist in ... well, you could find options.

                And that the doctor gets a lot from us? My wife is a budget doctor, so she receives less than the average salary declared by the government (55 thousand).
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 12 January 2022 14: 07
                  +4
                  So we get less money ... although he imagined that a person studied, learned, works in his specialty, does NECESSARY for people, the state, work, and gets a beak from a gulkin ... it's sad, because of such social benefits that in the USSR everyone received it for free, now it is NOT free and is not expected.
                  1. zenion
                    zenion 12 January 2022 21: 37
                    -5
                    In general, making children, feeding them, taking them to kindergartens, nurseries to schools in institutes and other such work and the state did not pay for this, there were not even free condom, but many broke through the torn ones. And the fact that they had to fight and be afraid of everything in the world and this was done by the ancestors did not reach many, as well as those in unbroken condom. This is free, as if it was like a guest in the throat of the capitalists. They also had to follow the path, in some places, as it was in the USSR. And now those in power do not care about the people, as it was in the days of slavery and feudalism, the sheep need to be sheared.
      2. Ingenegr
        Ingenegr 11 January 2022 19: 12
        +30
        Now, therefore, everyone is paid a higher salary, i.e. maximum. Right?
        1. Blacksmith 55
          Blacksmith 55 11 January 2022 19: 20
          .
          Read the article and my comment more carefully.
          We are talking about the USSR, and I wrote: in the Union.
          1. zenion
            zenion 13 January 2022 00: 37
            +1
            Blacksmith 55. Russia in the place where the USSR was. And you need to compare what the people got from this pogrom, murder and robbery?
        2. V means B
          V means B 11 January 2022 23: 34
          +9
          And then))) I don't even know what to do with it and bought yachts and planes and islands))))
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 12 January 2022 21: 11
            -4
            For the purchase of airplanes and yachts, you need a large profit - but not high salaries.
            1. zenion
              zenion 13 January 2022 13: 23
              0
              Vadim 237. You don't need profit, but you need a well-honed knife of excellent steel and a touchstone. In the evening we sharpen the knife, in the morning we count the money. Then you can create a company with limitless irresponsibility. In general, everything is as it was in the early 90s. And the ichthyosaurs will become ours.
          2. zenion
            zenion 13 January 2022 13: 21
            0
            V means V. Are yachts powered by atomic electricity? Can she dive like Captain Nemo's boat? If not, it’s not new anymore.
            1. V means B
              V means B 13 January 2022 19: 28
              -2
              And then on a special project and not on atomic, but on thermonuclear electricity))))
      3. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 11 January 2022 19: 19
        +46
        Quote: Blacksmith 55

        The Union, providing us with a "free" apartment, medicine, education, etc., paid everyone less (or more precisely, the minimum) wages.

        I would now have that "lower, minimum salary" and pension that were in the USSR! Think about it: the pension was almost equal to the average earnings! And I would not refuse that free medicine. At least she was close to the house, and not like now "in the middle of nowhere." Optimization is her mother!
        1. carpenter
          carpenter 11 January 2022 20: 33
          +29
          Quote: СРЦ П-15
          I would now have that "lower, minimum salary" and pension that were in the USSR!

          And even 70 rubles (clean) as a watchman will get a pension, live and do not grieve, and if the dacha was bought over the years of work, then you could not think about anything.
      4. tatra
        tatra 11 January 2022 19: 31
        +22
        The enemies of the communists do not even understand the meaning of their malicious and cowardly anti-Soviet methodical books, they discredit themselves with them.
        So, if you were under the incantation "but nothing is free, the communists did not pay you enough," after the Soviet people were deprived of many social benefits after the capture of the USSR by you, you HAVE to pay the people much higher salaries and pensions than the communists paid.
        And you, on the contrary, took away social benefits, and salaries and pensions began to pay less than in the USSR.
        And again, there is no need for the cowardly enemies of the communists "and we have nothing to do with it," "and I have nothing to do with it." How to be malignant against the USSR, so you are all together, but how to defend your whole gop-company, so there is no one.
        1. Blacksmith 55
          Blacksmith 55 11 January 2022 20: 44
          -7
          If you are addressed to me.
          I have never spiteful against Russia or the Union.
          Born and raised there, he worked.
          But when I remember our drunken party organizer at the enterprise, excuse me, I want to. He could do anything for a bubble, and to our great regret there were many, too many of them in the party.
          It was impossible to live and work honestly at the end of the Union and after in Russia, otherwise my wife and I could not and did not want to.
          Therefore, in the early 90s, they gathered the children, some things and left.
          And you don't need to reproach me for being a coward, running away from difficulties, at that time we simply would not have been able to survive with children.

          I stop the discussion on this topic, it will not lead to anything, it is very difficult to convince an adult.
          1. victor50
            victor50 12 January 2022 17: 46
            +2
            Quote: Blacksmith 55
            in the early 90s, they collected the children, some things and left.

            In the early 90s, most likely, it was not the USSR, but Russia and the capitalism corresponding to it.
        2. evgen1221
          evgen1221 11 January 2022 21: 11
          0
          Lord, madam. Government management is always and everywhere working with big money, large volumes of statistics and how two thousand are audited there is dust, if the graph shows an increase of half a percent in a year, then this half a percent can mean both a Mercedes to each and half a sugar to each, and the life of a thousand for large numbers it is nothing, dust. The work of managing a large country is a very difficult thing where completely different parameters are taken into account than we think about it, and what seems important to us at that level of decision-making may not be relevant. If you try to go through any computer economic strategy the first time, you will understand that managing large numbers is a very difficult to understand thing.
        3. AAK
          AAK 11 January 2022 23: 00
          +10
          The true, implacable and most vicious "enemies of the communists" are the leading communists
          1. AAK
            AAK 11 January 2022 23: 02
            0
            And one more little remark to colleagues - it's impossible to argue with the tape recorder
        4. Vadim237
          Vadim237 12 January 2022 21: 15
          -4
          Only here there were communists and as it were - but communism was not built anywhere in the world after 100 years from the formation of the USSR, as an example, probably because such a society is a pure utopia and it is not achievable in practice - and so Tatravoz.
      5. rocket757
        rocket757 11 January 2022 19: 35
        +8
        As it was then ... if something was missing, so everything around, friends, neighbors.
        Did you feel flawed, deprived ???
      6. mitroha
        mitroha 11 January 2022 22: 06
        +16
        That is, in material terms, the resources from which socialist housing is created will always be approximately comparable in value to those used in capitalist housing. If they are equivalent.

        Dear author, here I no longer agree.
        They will not be equal, and will not even be near. For the task of a private office is spelled out in the charter - this is profit. The task of the state office that builds social housing is different, it is the implementation of the construction plan. And the cost of such housing is paid not only by the cost of construction, it also affects areas such as satisfaction with the quality of life of the population, social stability, purposefulness of young people, etc. etc. ... That is, if in the case of capital construction we have a profit from the whole chain, then in the case of a social construction by a state office we have not so much profit as other, social benefits, in fact it (construction, build, whatever you want) is called so
        1. Knell wardenheart
          11 January 2022 23: 44
          -6
          And I partially agree with you - intermediary chains can inflate the cost of housing construction in capital countries, as well as the mark-up on all the materials in question (however, I note that a good capitalist himself is interested in buying everything with a minimum mark-up, because this will allow him personally cook more). For this, in particular, large construction companies can do great magic on optimal logistics and production of something in foreign branches - and in the end it plays ON the consumer. A worthless capitalist or ripper also takes place, but in a competitive environment he risks losing profit or his place in the market - this encourages him to evolve (for good or for worse) or a more dexterous businessman takes his place (again, for good or for worse). The price of land and the concept of "prestigious or not prestigious" area can also be an important part of the cost of a building in the west. In the USSR, these parameters were also - but they were hidden parameters. For example, everyone understands that some factory districts full of human beings are "not cake", but people were insanely happy to get out of communal apartments and there, especially since the USSR supported the employment of the population. In the west, employment was not particularly supported, but the capitalists had no motive to build expensive housing in such areas, so they built cheap housing there - and those who were ready to buy it understood what they were doing. Sometimes, for such construction, the capitalists knocked out including and state financing from local or federal authorities. The Americans also experimented with human beings, but the result saddened them, let's say .. In the article I point out that over the Western model, the USSR model did not have any BRIGHT-EXPRESSED advantages, but this does not mean that it was bad. Many of its parameters inevitably depended on the materials market (and the quality of construction and its pace often depended on other large-scale construction projects in the USSR, including defense ones), changing the pace or improving quality required investments, just like in the west, they were also needed funds, colossal funds. The output was most likely a product that was significantly inferior to the western one in price (for the state), but the piece of humor was that everything was the same, but much more ATTRACTIVE could be created in the USSR itself using the usual mortgage scheme. The prefix "free" would simply disappear, and the wishes of the market would appear for home builders. The "hidden" money that went from wages to the fund of the general "hidden" mortgage would be in people's hands and would be more actively used by the economy. The state in this scheme would not lose its organizing role - just different state companies (a la design bureaus that dealt with airplanes) would be engaged in construction, competing for citizens' money DIRECTLY, through market response and quality-assortment of products. There were several multi-letters, but I think I expressed the essence well enough.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 11 January 2022 23: 58
            +6
            Quote: Knell Wardenheart
            more ATTRACTIVE could be created in the USSR itself using the usual mortgage scheme.

            And cooperative housing was under a mortgage scheme. For example, my friend's family paid a first installment for a three-ruble note of the improved type - 4,5 thousand, then every month a little more than a hundred rubles. In total - 9,5 thousand rubles.
            Quote: Knell Wardenheart
            many letters, but I think I expressed the essence well enough.

            They expressed it badly.
            1. Konnick
              Konnick 12 January 2022 00: 40
              +10
              And cooperative housing was under a mortgage scheme. For example, my friend's family paid a first installment for a three-ruble note of the improved type - 4,5 thousand, then every month a little more than a hundred rubles. In total - 9,5 thousand rubles.

              A mortgage is a pledge, and a cooperative is an equity participation. And they paid without extortionate interest. 0% overpayment. In Krylatskoye, Moscow, the initial payment for a kopeck piece is 3 thousand, only 12 thousand Soviet rubles.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 12 January 2022 21: 21
                -4
                Yes, precisely according to such "cooperative schemes" in Armenia, not without a well-known city, which was built after the earthquake in the late 80s, the whole thing collapsed, just the builders were tying materials and building anyhow.
            2. KIND LAVRENTIUS
              KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 11: 35
              0
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              For example, my friend's family paid a first installment for a three-ruble note of the improved type - 4,5 thousand, then every month a little more than a hundred rubles. In total - 9,5 thousand rubles.

              personal example (single) is not common (systemic) ...
              it is better to indicate the percentage of the introduced living space from 85 to 90. cooperative housing.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 12 January 2022 19: 37
                0
                Quote: KIND LAVRENTIUS
                personal example (single) is not common (systemic) ...

                This is an example of my friend's family. My dad received an apartment of about 80 square meters from the factory for his family, also of an improved type, without paying any thousand.
                1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
                  KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 20: 03
                  +2
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  This is an example of my friend's family. My dad got it from the factory

                  I have one friend in five earns 36 million rubles a month ... this does not mean that every sixth earns 36 million a month ........
          2. mitroha
            mitroha 12 January 2022 06: 34
            +5
            For this, in particular, large construction companies can do great magic on optimal logistics and production of something in foreign branches - and in the end it plays ON the consumer

            Lord, author, in what pink clouds are you hovering. There will be no logistics optimization. There will be optimization of wages for workers and "dilution of gasoline with donkey urine", that is, saving everything that is possible, at the expense of quality. These are realities.
            He worked in construction for 20 years. 95% work to make a profit here and now, almost no one works with a prospect of 10-20 or more years
            1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
              KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 15: 47
              -1
              Quote: Mitroha
              95% work to make a profit here and now, almost no one works with a prospect of 10-20 or more years

              Do I understand correctly that since 2010, 95% of players in the housing construction market have disappeared and there is no one to build now?
              1. mitroha
                mitroha 12 January 2022 17: 08
                +1
                That is, you have not considered the option of changing market players?
                1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
                  KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 18: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: Mitroha
                  That is, you have not considered the option of changing market players?

                  apparently, this option was not considered by those who wrote it:
                  Quote: Mitroha
                  Lord, author, in what pink clouds are you hovering. There will be no logistics optimization. There will be optimization of wages for workers and "dilution of gasoline with donkey urine", that is, saving everything that is possible, at the expense of quality. These are realities.
                  He worked in construction for 20 years. 95% work to make a profit here and now, almost no one works with a prospect of 10-20 or more years

                  I absolutely do not understand why he writes this ...
                  1. mitroha
                    mitroha 12 January 2022 19: 39
                    0
                    Your difficulties in understanding what has been written, only your difficulties
                    1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
                      KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 20: 05
                      0
                      Quote: Mitroha
                      Your difficulties in understanding what has been written, only your difficulties

                      naturally!!!!
                      why do you write banal things?
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 12 January 2022 21: 25
              -4
              And then why do projects take the same big bridges for years to come?
          3. KIND LAVRENTIUS
            KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 11: 45
            0
            Quote: Knell Wardenheart
            And I partially agree with you - intermediary chains can inflate the cost of housing construction in capital countries

            don't make excuses ...
            the article essentially describes the truth about the USSR. I agree with you in many ways.
            in the USSR even a satirical newsreel "wick" was filmed - there just such failures in logistics were illustrated.
            1. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 13: 58
              -1
              Well yes ...

              The USSR was one of the leaders in the implementation of computer modeling and planning of traffic flows.

              Moreover, quite successful ...
              1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
                KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 14: 02
                -2
                Quote: ABC-schütze
                SSR was one of the leaders in the implementation of computer modeling and planning of traffic flows, and, moreover, it was quite successful ...

                where are the results of this success?
                1. ABC-schutze
                  ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 14: 49
                  +2
                  Do you have any "data" about the systemic (which I emphasize) "inefficiency" of the same MASS freight and passenger traffic on the Soviet railway or air transport? ..

                  By the way, let me remind you that in the Soviet state, the same passenger transportation of ALL types, ORIGINALLY PLANNED and carried out with the PRIORITY PURPOSE OF PROVIDING transport services to the people. And not the criterion "cost-effectiveness". Therefore, even a REGULAR flight (three departures a day) on an intra-republican airline in the same Baltic region, for 250 - 300 km. cost about 10 rubles. (i.e. the same as a taxi ride from one end of the city to the other). But the planes flew regularly, even when the flight was "filled" with three passengers ...

                  Because the state, BY DEFINITION, JUST had no PURPOSE, to earn "ON citizens" ...
                  1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
                    KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 15: 04
                    -1
                    Quote: ABC-schütze
                    Do you have any "data" about the systemic (which I emphasize) "inefficiency" of the same MASS freight and passenger traffic on the Soviet railway or air transport? ..

                    of course!
                    here they are:
                    Quote: ABC-schütze
                    Therefore, even a REGULAR flight (three departures a day) on an intra-republican airline in the same Baltic states, for 250 - 300 km. cost about 10 rubles. (i.e. the same as a taxi ride from one end of the city to the other). But the planes flew regularly, even when the flight was "filled" with three passengers ...

                    in other words, a flight of 3 people on an airplane cost them 6 bottles of vodka, but for the state it cost the wear and tear of an expensive airliner, a couple of tons of kerosene, not counting the salary for the staff ...
                    Quote: ABC-schütze
                    Because the state, BY DEFINITION, JUST had no PURPOSE, to earn "ON citizens" ...

                    but was intended to send Petya for a walk around Riga for 3 bottles, spending a huge amount of resources on it !!!!!
                    1. ABC-schutze
                      ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 15: 14
                      +4
                      Then one more educational program ...

                      Any "efficiency-ineffectiveness" is assessed only in the context of achieving or not achieving the stated planned goals.

                      In a humane Soviet state, these were, in particular, STABLE and WIDE provision of transport, passenger services to the PEOPLE at economically AFFORDABLE prices for ALL. Which was provided CONTINUOUSLY ...

                      For this, it was the system that was effective, and did not have goals in the field of passenger transportation, "making money" on the people ...
                      1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
                        KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 15: 30
                        -3
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        Any "efficiency-ineffectiveness" is assessed only in the context of achieving or not achieving the stated planned goals.

                        back to the question - where is this efficiency now?
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        passenger services to the PEOPLE at economically AFFORDABLE prices for ALL. Which was provided CONTINUOUSLY ...

                        which predetermined the death of the USSR ...
                        ps
                        the declared goal of "vodka" is to relax the human brain, ease up, dizziness and joy, a holiday in life, ease of communication with others ... and the fact that the consequence of drinking vodka is premature death does not seem to bother you. ..
                        PPP
                        you are one of those who claim that a corpse is not a corpse, but a living person, t. the corpse has no "death certificate" .......
                      2. ABC-schutze
                        ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 15: 46
                        +4
                        "... which predetermined the death of the USSR ...
                        ps "
                        ***************************************
                        Yeah ...

                        Well, in that case, the death of the so-called. The "market economies" were predetermined by the First World War, already caused by them ... It proved "in practice" the PRINCIPAL inability of the "market" economies to solve their socio-economic, SYSTEM problems, precisely on the path of economic competition. Not a world war. This time ...

                        And second ... the USSR did not "die", but was deliberately ruined. And not at all by their economic system, but by their personal, selfish, nomenklatura traitors in the leadership. And the "market" economies are by no means insured against betrayal ... The socio-economic theory does not provide such "guarantees" ... Just as it does not provide guarantees of "no return" to Soviet power, by the way ...
                      3. KIND LAVRENTIUS
                        KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 16: 03
                        -3
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        death of the so-called "market economies" were predetermined by the First World War, which they had already caused

                        what the ....... are you writing? ...
                        I have no desire to engage in demagoguery with you, your writings are reminiscent of the congresses of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union - there are many words and little sense.
                        If you say that the market economy died in the millstones of the 1st World War, then what is it like all over the world now? planned? or what?
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        precisely on the paths of economic competition. Not a world war. This time ...

                        It's hard for me to comment on this ... because the whole history of mankind is the history of solving socio-economic problems, including with the help of war !!!!!
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        And second ... the USSR did not "die", but was deliberately ruined. And not at all by its economic system

                        and this is not a system error:
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        but personally, selfish, nomenklatura traitors in the leadership.
                      4. ABC-schutze
                        ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 15: 50
                        +2
                        "... back to the question - where is this efficiency now?"
                        *************************************** First, what does it mean "back" to the question ? .. If you didn't ask this question, actually ...

                        Secondly, what are these chaotic and illogical "leaps" from the USSR to "now"? .. You are "now", what else (or already ...) do you live under Soviet rule? ..
                      5. KIND LAVRENTIUS
                        KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 16: 09
                        -1
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        First of all, what does "return" to the question mean? .. If you didn’t ask this question, actually ...

                        sorry ...
                        where are the results of this success?
                        Quote: ABC-schütze
                        Secondly, what are these chaotic and illogical "leaps" from the USSR to "now"? .. You are "now", what else (or already ...) do you live under Soviet rule? ..

                        I now live reaping the consequences of the USSR.
                      6. ABC-schutze
                        ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 13: 17
                        +1
                        "I now live reaping the consequences of the USSR."
                        ***************************************
                        Not "the consequences of the USSR," but the consequences of the collapse of the USSR. Learn to correctly build causal relationships ...

                        By the way, the potential for nuclear deterrence and Russia's place in the UN Security Council as a permanent member with a veto right are also a Soviet legacy. Thanks to which you, now, in fact, and in general, live ...

                        "I'm sorry...
                        where are the results of this success? "
                        ***************************************
                        I repeat the question again ...
                        Where is the evidence of the mythical "systemic" suboptimality of Soviet passenger transport? ..

                        Air? W \ D? .. River? ..

                        Was the configuration of communication lines of all types in the USSR "suboptimal"?

                        And what about the network of airports? .. There were some kind of "congestions" on the highways of all kinds?

                        Was the "priority" in the scheduling (timetables) of freight and passenger transportation formed "systemically suboptimal" or "systemically erroneous"? ..

                        In short, even from the THIRD "approach", try to clearly substantiate your thesis about the mythical "lack" of success results ... That is, precisely about the presence of SYSTEM failures and "failures" in the Soviet policy of developing transport of all types ...
                    2. region58
                      region58 13 January 2022 15: 48
                      0
                      Quote: KIND LAVRENTIUS
                      for the state, it cost the wear and tear of an expensive airliner, a couple of tons of kerosene, not counting the salary to the personnel ...

                      This is how the state considered the balance on the scale of the state as a single economy. But when they started to derban everything piece by piece - and then it appeared: "here" is profitable - they grabbed a piece, and "there" is unprofitable - well, waste it, nobody needs it. "Optimization" ... her mother ...
                  2. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 12 January 2022 21: 28
                    -4
                    By the way, let me remind you that in the Soviet state, the same passenger transportation of ALL types, ORIGINALLY PLANNED and carried out with the PRIORITY PURPOSE OF PROVIDING transport services to the people. And not the criterion "cost-effectiveness". Ultimately, the state, according to this principle, built itself a direct road to bankruptcy, which came in 1986.
                    1. ABC-schutze
                      ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 13: 26
                      +1
                      "In the end, the state, according to this principle, built itself a direct road to bankruptcy, which came in 1986."
                      ********************************************
                      This is an outright lie ...

                      The Soviet state, before the so-called. "perestroika" was completely solvent. Both external and internal obligations. Since the Soviet planned commodity economy was not a "gatehouse" and worked to meet the needs, not the "wants". Including the "nomenklatura" ones ... And the Soviet ruble, unlike the oceans of "greenery", was REALLY provided with a gold coating ...
                      1. AML
                        AML 14 January 2022 20: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        It belonged to the state in the first place. You could not come to any place and say "I will build my house here because I want to." Before you write, take an interest in the building orders of the USSR.

                        Could could. In Odessa, near the bus station, there is a whole area built in this way. Yes, at some point in time, this was stopped, but not by total demolition, but by indicating that if the roof does not stand by such and such a number, then the house will be demolished. All covered houses were legalized and entered into the register.
      7. ABC-schutze
        ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 13: 45
        +2
        "To begin with, it is worthwhile to understand that there is very little" free "and, moreover, material around us. As a rule, they approach the" free "gifts of nature of one kind or another - and where a person has worked on a product in one way or another, this product has cost based price. "
        ************************************************** ************
        First you need to understand that for free (and without any quotes), this means without the LAW GUARANTEED (in our case, the Soviet Constitution) need to pay for education, health care and housing from YOUR PERSONAL funds. Those. from the WAGE LEGALLY received by the citizen. And it is not at all that all the mentioned types of social guarantees of the Soviet state to its citizens, "out of thin air" appear "by the mania" of some "magic wand" ...

        As you can understand, the author who "pondered for a long time" over the introduction and comments of members of the forum did not understand this elementary thing ...

        For this, the whole rather lengthy article, with stories about the "cost components" of the people's Soviet state, in the cost of the voiced "social package", excuse me, is work to zero ...

        In the course of political economy in Soviet universities (that is, in the course of obtaining FREE FOR STUDENTS, HIGHER education ...) all these components were considered in detail. As well as the semantic content of the term "free" was explained quite clearly ...
        1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
          KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 14: 16
          0
          Quote: ABC-schütze
          As you can understand, the author who "pondered for a long time" over the introduction and comments of members of the forum did not understand this elementary thing ...

          the concept of this thing was not the goal of the article, as it seems to me.
          the article describes the essence of what is happening in the USSR and the cause-and-effect relationship.
          Quote: ABC-schütze
          In the course of political economy in Soviet universities (that is, in the course of obtaining FREE FOR STUDENTS, HIGHER education ...) all these components were considered in detail.

          not everyone on this forum studied on the course of political economy in Soviet universities.
          Quote: ABC-schütze
          semantic content of the term "free" ...

          looks like this: adv. to free; without receiving or giving anything in return.
          Synonyms
          everyday for nothing, colloquial. for so, colloquial. for nothing, razg. for nothing, razg.-downgrade for nothing, colloquial. you live great, razd. for beautiful eyes, unnecessary. or official. free of charge, colloquial. thanks for ...
          Quote: ABC-schütze
          For this, the whole rather lengthy article, with stories about the "cost components" of the people's Soviet state, in the cost of the voiced "social package", excuse me, is work to zero ...

          a "zero" article for those smart like you, but for the rest the article is good!
          1. ABC-schutze
            ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 15: 07
            +2
            "... the article describes the essence of what is happening in the USSR and the cause-and-effect relationship"
            ************************************************** ******
            In order to OBJECTIVELY "describe" the mentioned "essence" of what is happening, you must first remind the reader of the MAIN GOALS of the Soviet planned commodity economy ...

            What the author, for obvious reasons, of permanent, anti-Soviet blinkeredness, "reasonably" avoids ...

            For this, I willingly believe that the mentioned "many" are also "interested" in her. But analytically, this is typical for this kind of "critics" - work to zero ...

            What do boring arguments about "large" (in the context of supposedly "ineffective" according to the criterion "cost-effectiveness" investments) in education, housing and health care give, if, THE ORIGINAL, MAIN PURPOSE was not "economic return" at all, but SATISFACTION OF THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE? ..

            "looks like this: adverb. to free; without receiving or giving anything in return.
            Synonyms
            everyday for nothing, colloquial. for so, colloquial. for nothing, razg. for nothing, razg.-downgrade for nothing, colloquial. you live great, razd. for beautiful eyes, unnecessary. or official. free of charge, colloquial. thanks for ...
            ************************************************** *******
            If you believe that you responded with a response to my thesis. They were very wrong ...

            For all the riches of Russian explanatory dictionaries described by you do not in any way refute my thesis, because. DO NOT ANSWER THE MAIN question. "Free" FOR WHOM ...

            For this, I recommend reading carefully before taking on the "explanations" ...

            Once again, I ask the question in the context of free .... A Soviet citizen who received the guaranteed by the Soviet state FREE health care, education and STATE housing from HIS salary, i.e. from OWN sources of income paid for it? .. Or not? ..
        2. KIND LAVRENTIUS
          KIND LAVRENTIUS 13 January 2022 15: 07
          0
          Quote: ABC-schütze
          I repeat the question again ...
          Where is the evidence of the mythical "systemic" suboptimality of Soviet passenger transport? ..

          the collapse of the USSR ... this is evidence of systemic suboptimality ... the activities of the USSR led to the collapse of the state ...
      8. Aag
        Aag 12 January 2022 22: 34
        0
        Quote: smith 55
        Yesterday, in the Opinions section, in the article "Kazakhstan or 30 Years of Dead-End Development of the USSR", in the comments I wrote about free cheese in a mousetrap.
        Received a lot of criticism.
        You have to pay for everything in life.
        The Union, providing us with a "free" apartment, medicine, education, etc., paid everyone less (or more precisely, the minimum) wages.
        With this money, we received "free" nishtyaks.

        My "criticism", expressed by my "minus" to you, was that even while paying 96 (!)% Of taxes (I have reason to assume that it was), the Soviet people lived comfortably, and most importantly (IMHO) - believed (reasonably ), that tomorrow it will be even better! (flaws, excesses, - of course there were ..)
        So the question is: where does this difference go now (?!): 96% under the USSR, and 13 (supposedly)% in the Russian Federation? !!!
        Methods of calculation? "Hidden", duplicate taxes? Theft?!...
        1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
          KIND LAVRENTIUS 13 January 2022 15: 14
          0
          Quote: AAG
          Soviet people lived comfortably, and most importantly (IMHO) - believed (not unreasonably) that tomorrow will be even better!

          and then Soviet people faced harsh reality ...
          1. Aag
            Aag 13 January 2022 15: 28
            0
            Quote: KIND LAVRENTIUS
            Quote: AAG
            Soviet people lived comfortably, and most importantly (IMHO) - believed (not unreasonably) that tomorrow will be even better!

            and then Soviet people faced harsh reality ...

            Don't you find that reality has been greatly changed for a Soviet person?
            1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
              KIND LAVRENTIUS 13 January 2022 15: 32
              0
              Quote: AAG
              Don't you find that reality has been greatly changed for a Soviet person?

              I do not find ... the objective reality is always one! you can live in illusions for a while, but reality (time) always takes its toll !!!
              by the way, it seems to me that US citizens now also live in illusions, which they consider to be reality ...
              1. Aag
                Aag 13 January 2022 15: 45
                0
                Quote: KIND LAVRENTIUS
                Quote: AAG
                Don't you find that reality has been greatly changed for a Soviet person?

                I do not find ... the objective reality is always one! you can live in illusions for a while, but reality (time) always takes its toll !!!
                by the way, it seems to me that US citizens now also live in illusions, which they consider to be reality ...

                The United States still has enough strength to build "reality" for itself ...
                The USSR was torn apart - one of the stages of such construction (including).
        2. KIND LAVRENTIUS
          KIND LAVRENTIUS 13 January 2022 15: 16
          0
          Quote: AAG
          and most importantly (IMHO) - believed (not unreasonably) that tomorrow will be even better!

          and a Soviet person also believed that one could "charge" the water in front of the TV for the treatment of various diseases and be not a freeloader, but a partner of JSC "MMM")))))))))))
          1. Aag
            Aag 13 January 2022 15: 38
            0
            Quote: KIND LAVRENTIUS
            Quote: AAG
            and most importantly (IMHO) - believed (not unreasonably) that tomorrow will be even better!

            and a Soviet person also believed that one could "charge" the water in front of the TV for the treatment of various diseases and be not a freeloader, but a partner of JSC "MMM")))))))))))

            Not without it ... Well, not everything.
            But now, as one Chumak (and Kashpirovsky), an immeasurable number of clinics act, and a number of "workers" of state medical institutions ...
            The state is coping well with the role of Mavrodi.
            Why is the Pension Fund not "MMM"?
      9. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 13 January 2022 07: 39
        +1
        Quote: smith 55
        Yesterday, in the Opinions section, in the article "Kazakhstan or 30 Years of Dead-End Development of the USSR", in the comments I wrote about free cheese in a mousetrap.
        Received a lot of criticism.
        You have to pay for everything in life.
        The Union, providing us with a "free" apartment, medicine, education, etc., paid everyone less (or more precisely, the minimum) wages.
        With this money, we received "free" nishtyaks.

        Less compared to who? According to the current theory, wages are related to labor productivity. Something I haven’t heard of people in the USSR complaining about low wages. About the lack of goods, yes
        And at the same time, everyone bought things in the market or from fartsy. That is, the people had money
      10. ivan2022
        ivan2022 13 January 2022 11: 55
        +1
        Terer free "nishtyaks" have been replaced by paid ones. You are satisfied?
      11. andybuts
        andybuts 13 January 2022 14: 30
        +1
        Yesterday, in the Opinions section, in the article "Kazakhstan or 30 Years of Dead-End Development of the USSR", in the comments I wrote about free cheese in a mousetrap.
        Received a lot of criticism.

        did not read that comment, if in the spirit of this comment, then the criticism is fair. You don't understand the topic, so people correct it.
        The Union, providing us with a "free" apartment, medicine, education, etc., paid everyone less (or more precisely, the minimum) wages.
        With this money, we received "free" nishtyaks.

        no one provided free housing, medicine, education at the expense of salaries. And it is clear that for the state it was not free. But if you simplify the entire economy, then all its products can be decomposed into the value of labor and surplus value. Salary, as it was then, remains so now, and its size then and now is difficult to compare. But what can be compared is where the surplus product goes. And it was precisely the surplus value that financed "free apartments, doctors, teachers and professors for everyone." Nobody all over the world collected money for the treatment of children. And now it goes primarily to the list of Forbes and other successful people, their yachts, private jets, country villas, feeding all kinds of bohemians, journalists, bloggers and others. This is a very significant part of this product, and it is still created by the labor of a simple worker. Yes, in Soviet times there were also big bureaucrats, bohemians, only they had several times less than the current "elite", members of the Politburo did not live as widely as now the average governors, and the leading television announcers did not have apartments in London. And an employee receiving +/- the same salary does not receive housing for free from the enterprise or authorities, he is forced to buy his own housing for money in a mortgage or pay rent to the beneficiaries of the current system (or the owners of grandmother's "free" apartments who were lucky to live in Moscow, and not in a single-industry town), and if he loses his job, and does not have time to pay off the mortgage, then in most cases he will lose everything that has already been paid and will be left homeless. He has to undergo treatment for money from the same salary, pay for the education of children and various self-education courses required by the system.
    2. carpenter
      carpenter 11 January 2022 20: 29
      +2
      Quote: rocket757
      Total ... free, only cheese in a mousetrap, and even then, you have to be able to get it, preserved entirely and free.

      But if you climbed into a mousetrap, you won't get out alive.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 11 January 2022 22: 32
        +3
        Quote: carpenter
        But climb into a mousetrap, you won't get out alive

        Does this "restriction" stop everyone ???
        Hunger, greed, a sense of self-preservation ... which is stronger, what will they listen to?
        1. carpenter
          carpenter 12 January 2022 13: 58
          +2
          Quote: rocket757
          Hunger, greed, a sense of self-preservation ... which is stronger, what will they listen to?

          Rather: hunger will overpower both greed and self-preservation.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 January 2022 14: 09
            +2
            Yes, hunger is no longer a desire, it is a need !!!
      2. ABC-schutze
        ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 13: 55
        +5
        And the Soviet state did not place any "mousetraps" on its citizens ...

        Where as a big mousetrap (and without any quotes ...) is life in debt (or the so-called "crelit") imposed on the man in the street by the so-called. "market" economies ...

        Incl. and the so-called "their" housing, the loan for which must be paid to banks for a couple of decades. And this, - without any long-term guarantees of employment ... In other words, guarantees of the ability to pay off the received loan ...

        The same about education ... The same about treatment ...
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 12 January 2022 14: 57
          +3
          The Soviet government was kinder to its citizens ... there are so many examples that you can not count everything!
          We also need to treat the past objectively, to everything that was and how it was.
          It was DIFFERENT, but more good, significantly.
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 12 January 2022 21: 35
        -5
        No, in the USSR, society simply believed that cheese was free, and the state believed that oil and raw material revenues would always be and the country's resources were unlimited, the CMEA countries believed in this and dozens of other countries of the world which the USSR held around their necks - the result turned out to be cruel for everyone.
  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. Cypa
      Cypa 12 January 2022 09: 20
      +5
      So dance or something
  3. My address
    My address 11 January 2022 18: 26
    +37
    Blimey! There are two absurdities:
    According to the author, large-scale construction leads to a rise in the cost of construction - well, purely like the Ministry of Agriculture - we grow a lot of food and therefore prices are rising. And Russian minds turned out to be not capable enough and sailed away with their ideas - so not enough, or enough to float away?
    The author is a pure intellectual, i.e. does not understand that it is contrary to logic and himself.
    But I see one thing - the lack of responsibility at the very top ruined the country. And do not la-la about the invisible hand of the market, which grows from where it is not necessary.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 18: 56
      .
      In itself, large-scale production of something leads to a reduction in the cost of production, but this reduction in price is the greater, the smaller the number of man-hours spent on creating a product in the process (due to the introduction of innovations and methods of large-scale production). In the case of housing, of course, the block approach greatly reduced the price - but the builders still needed a LOT, they all had to pay salary, and although they were building quite quickly, the scale of the building within our geography meant that a small number of professionals meant this. not to do. So the% of the cost of man-hours relative to the cost of materials was quite large, since these people were normally paid, all this was included in the cost of housing in the end. Comparison with growing food is incorrect due to the greater mechanization of the process.
      1. Alex_1973
        Alex_1973 11 January 2022 20: 34
        +20
        Author, what did you actually want to say with your libel against the USSR? No, well, really? The fact that there was nothing free in the USSR? So everyone understands this, even Vanka the Fool, but you apparently are not aware of this? And how do you think it should be? So that no one works, but at the same time everyone has everything? What are you trying to prove with your slops? What is now much better and fairer than it was in the USSR? So those who lived in the USSR (including me) have (to my great regret) the opportunity to personally compare how it was and how it became. So the comparison is clearly not in favor of the modern RF !!! Yes, the USSR was not a paradise on earth, and it could not have been in principle, but it was a country of equal opportunities, though with the proviso that it ceased to be such after Stalin's death, when the ruling elite began to break away from the people. It was then that a turning point occurred, which ultimately ruined the great country. When the elite completely breaks away from the people, then expect trouble. And now the "elite" is so far from the common people that one has to wait for trouble all the time.
        So put your nonsense in a place where Makar did not drive calves and do not write more, you cannot, even for money, by the way, how much is the USSR to shit now ?!
        1. Knell wardenheart
          11 January 2022 20: 41
          -8
          All that I wanted to say is written in letters at the end rather lucidly. I recommend rereading, but before that, take a good deep breath!
          1. Alex_1973
            Alex_1973 11 January 2022 20: 48
            +6
            Knell Wardenheart (Knell)
            All that I wanted to say is written in letters at the end rather lucidly.
            To understand that a dish is rotten, it is not necessary to finish it to the end, you will get poisoned!
            but before that, breathe well and deeply!
            Do not tell me what to do and I won’t tell you where to go ...
            1. Knell wardenheart
              11 January 2022 21: 04
              0
              Yeah, that is, it was a rhetorical question foreshadowing a stormy monologue? Now it's clear) I confess, I didn't read you either am
        2. AAK
          AAK 11 January 2022 23: 09
          +3
          Colleague, in my opinion, in VO it is very difficult to find someone who was born and spent at least a pioneer youth with Joseph Vissarionovich alive, most of them were born under the late Khrushchev or early Brezhnev. Therefore, we with "equal opportunities" were already somewhat tight ...
        3. V means B
          V means B 11 January 2022 23: 38
          -2
          Looks like enough, enough for a sandwich with butter and caviar))
      2. ABC-schutze
        ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 14: 37
        +2
        "By itself, large-scale production of something leads to a reduction in the cost of production, but this reduction in price is the greater, the fewer man-hours spent on creating a product in the process (due to the introduction of innovations and methods of large-scale production)."
        ************************************************** ************
        Actually, this is another "shot in the milk" ...

        The same MASS, housing construction (and this is one of the main topics, the next author's "research") was and is being carried out according to TYPICAL projects.

        Introducing "innovations" into which was not encouraged in any way. And it is quite reasonable. All changes in technology or, especially in design, are already, in fact, a new project. With its own, NEW, cost and production volumes ...

        By the way, a note to the author ...

        "Innovation" is the transformation and implementation of new SCIENTIFIC knowledge into SERIAL, INDUSTRIAL AND PRODUCTION technologies. For this, in the context of "construction", we can talk about nothing more than engineering and technological "ratsuhs". Not about "innovations" at all. Although the word is certainly "beautiful" ...

        As for the reduction of "man-hours", in the course of political economy it was prosaically called an increase in labor productivity. The need for which (primarily due to a conscious attitude to work) was strongly reminded to Soviet citizens already during the 2nd Congress. Yes, yes, "the very one" who "about communism in 1980" ...

        Moreover, in the materials of the Congress, as far as I was able to understand, the section on the NEED FOR, PRELIMINARY and WIDE increase in productivity, "went BEFORE" the section on the "free benefits" of communism. But the "market" lovers of freebies, the later period of the so-called. "perestroika", trying to "point the finger" at "unfulfilled fantasies", as you can see, read the section only about the long-awaited "freebie". And it is very "logical", i.e. "as unnecessary" missed the section on the NEED to "plow" a lot and productively ...

        And taking into account the fact that housing was provided to Soviet citizens by the Soviet state free of charge, the problem of the cost of construction was, in general, not relevant for them, because it did not affect their personal "pocket" in any way ...
    2. carpenter
      carpenter 11 January 2022 20: 37
      +4
      Quote: My address
      The author is a pure intellectual, i.e. does not understand that it is contrary to logic and himself.

      A pure intellectual, he writes this with a pure soul, but a new capitalist, he will get into this soul with dirty feet, and robbing as not a single capitalist in the West does.
  4. your1970
    your1970 11 January 2022 18: 27
    -7
    "Run !!!! They will beat them !!! (c) I don't remember whose ....
    Now people who are not capable of even minimally critical of the past will come running and will cut the author into cutlets ...
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 11 January 2022 18: 48
      +15
      Of course we will cut it. Already with housing, this scribbler initially began to cheat, forgetting the cost of land in the capitalist countries on which this housing was built.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        11 January 2022 19: 24
        .
        Do you think the "land value" parameter was not taken into account in the USSR? :) Do you think it was not influenced by the market? The fact that these were hidden parameters does not mean that they were not there. The land in the USSR was estimated more modestly, in its assessment there were no speculative fat gains - yes. But the parameters of the "land plot cost" themselves took place - the proximity of infrastructure, metro stations, the prestige of the area - all this was taken into account. Not for nothing, in addition to mass housing, there was also housing "for the elites" - the creative intelligentsia, theater and cinema workers, and party leaders.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 11 January 2022 19: 36
          +5
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          Do you think the "land value" parameter was not taken into account in the USSR? :) Do you think it was not influenced by the market?

          What other market? In more detail, on the fingers, nefig let the fog.
        2. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 16: 13
          0
          Land from the USSR belonged EXCLUSIVELY to the people. So it was written in the Constitution of the USSR. So what kind of "market" are we talking about ...

          Namely, - EXCLUSIVELY, TO THE PEOPLE - i.e. without a decision in a referendum of the PEOPLE, by no one (no body and its decision, this status could be, LEGALLY, canceled or changed). Incl. and "took place" in Russia, decisions of all kinds of levels, about the "privatization" of land and its subsoil ...

          In fact, there was an ILLEGAL alienation.

          The consequences of which to the PEOPLE, SYSTEMICALLY, have not yet been compensated by the "privatizers" and the authorities ...

          And in principle, they cannot be compensated by any "one-time payments", about which the same Putin stammered "shyly, quietly" ...

          Compensation can only be the introduction (albeit "retroactively" with a delay of 30 years) of a SPECIAL, TARGETED, PERMANENT ANNUAL "privatization" payment to the STATE BUDGET, by all today's owners of the previously ILLEGALLY "privatized", PEOPLE'S land

          And the distribution of income from this payment, let's say, is THIRD for SECURITY (defense), THIRD for PENSION provision and THIRD for science, education and medicine ...

          Will not be on the part of the authorities, such a SYSTEM
          compensation means the issue of "admitted injustice" in the course of the ILLEGAL seizure of land and its bowels from the property of the PEOPLE, will "smolder" on the Russian political agenda ALWAYS. Whether “explicitly” is “implicit” is not so important ... But in the notorious, potentially possible “crisis” situation, he may well “work” for himself as a detonator. And the authorities, Putin in particular, should understand this sooner rather than later. And to take an adequate, but understandably "very unpleasant" political decision for the "privatizers".

          Long-term social stability in Russia is clearly worth it ....
          1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
            KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 18: 23
            +1
            Quote: ABC-schütze
            The land from the USSR belonged EXCLUSIVELY to the people. So it was written in the Constitution of the USSR.

            so ... everything is clear with you ...
            ps
            I will write in the constitution so that you live for 100 years .... and if you die, it will be ILLEGAL !!!!!! .... and we will consider you alive !!!! so that!!!
            PPP
            list everything that belonged to me according to the constitution !!!!
            1. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 13: 37
              +2
              "so .... everything is clear with you ....
              ps "
              ************************************************** ****
              Do not run away so helplessly from the topic under discussion ...

              "I will write in the constitution so that you live for 100 years .... and if you die, it will be ILLEGAL !!!!!! .... and we will consider you alive !!!! so that !!!"
              ************************************************** ****
              I don’t mind. In your "personal" Constitution, you can "write" anything ...

              "pps
              list everything that belonged to me according to the constitution !!!! "
              ************************************************** ****
              No problem. Only you, while your "constitution" did not provide me for reading. And you can master the content of the USSR Constitution yourself ...
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 11 January 2022 19: 50
        -6
        There the land belongs to the state - and in the USSR it also belonged to the state.
        1. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 12 January 2022 16: 17
          0
          In the USSR it belonged EXCLUSIVELY to the PEOPLE. Read the Constitution of the USSR carefully ...
          1. KIND LAVRENTIUS
            KIND LAVRENTIUS 12 January 2022 18: 28
            +1
            Quote: ABC-schütze
            In the USSR it belonged EXCLUSIVELY to the PEOPLE. Read the Constitution of the USSR carefully ...

            Well, tell us how the people used the land that belonged to them.
            1. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 13: 44
              +2
              "... well tell us how the people used the land that belonged to them."
              ************************************************** ****
              An easy question ...

              In accordance with the five-year National Economy Development Plans, for example.

              Aimed at the implementation (solution of tasks) of the TARGETS of the Soviet state ...
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 12 January 2022 21: 41
            -5
            It belonged to the state in the first place. You could not come to any place and say "I will build my house here because I want to." Before you write, take an interest in the building orders of the USSR.
            1. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 13: 52
              +2
              "It belonged to the state in the first place. You could not come to any place and say" I will build my house here because I want to. "
              ************************************************** ****
              Giving no ... I, nevertheless, "first" will take an interest in the content of the Constitution of the USSR, and not in some "construction orders." This time ...

              As for all kinds of "you could not," then I could not "come" to "any plant" in the Soviet Union and "say" that this machine, drawing board, drill, test bench, manufactured product, etc. "I'll take it home." But this does not mean at all that the means of production in the USSR did not belong to the people ...

              By the way, people's property differs from private property in that it is used for the purposes of the objective needs of the entire people.

              For this, every "pupkin" cannot dispose of it according to his personal "wishes" ...
            2. KIND LAVRENTIUS
              KIND LAVRENTIUS 13 January 2022 15: 20
              -1
              Quote: Vadim237
              It belonged to the state in the first place. You could not come to any place and say "I will build my house here because I want to." Before you write, take an interest in the building orders of the USSR.

              he trolls us ...
      3. Cypa
        Cypa 12 January 2022 09: 29
        +2
        Yes, the land is very expensive. Usually in North America: conditional 6 acres for a modest 2-storey house 6 by 7 m will cost a third of the purchase amount
    2. at84432384
      at84432384 11 January 2022 19: 35
      +11
      But what is there to butcher ... The article was late by 30-35 years. Then the belief in the "hand of the market" and the superiority of the West was born, and there was a belief that the path chosen by the USSR was vicious. It doesn't seem that way now. By the way, capitalism, as predicted by Adam Smith and Karl Marx, is over. Even Putin publicly stated this and ... no one objected. Well, where next?
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 11 January 2022 20: 19
        +3
        Quote: at84432384
        capitalism, as predicted by Adam Smith and Karl Marx, is over. Even Putin publicly stated this and ... no one objected. Well, where next?

        Putin avoids getting involved in the discussion. When answering questions, he never asks if the person is satisfied with the answer ... smile
        And Capitalism is subdivided into Financial and Industrial ... And in our time, Financial has become completely independent of the Industrial.
        Do you agree that in 3-4 years the purchasing power of money has dropped by 2 times? where did she disappear to? - it was redistributed to newly printed money. ... As a result, our wallets are being robbed, our enterprises are robbed, our officials are also robbed.
        And if 100 years ago the people hated the bloodsuckers of the capitalists, now they must hate the banking system that rules the world. BUT, due to his dullness, the average person is unable to realize this simple fact. Yes! industrial capitalism died and as a result a useless class of consumers emerged, which will naturally be destroyed by covid, wars, terrorists, overwhelming loans, drugs, etc.
        1. at84432384
          at84432384 11 January 2022 21: 32
          +1
          Financial has no chance either - pay attention to interest rates. They are near-zero.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 12 January 2022 07: 25
            +4
            Quote: at84432384
            Financial has no chance either - pay attention to interest rates. They are near-zero.

            pay attention to the issue, they just print money from it and have everyone.
            and the purchase and sale rate? What about fluctuations in stock prices? see how prices for building materials have gone up !! The financial cartel buys cheap and sells dear!
        2. Fanur Galiev
          Fanur Galiev 12 January 2022 06: 39
          +1
          In my opinion, you are mistaken with the opinion that financial capital has become independent from industrial capital. Everything is somewhat different, and industrial capital has now merged with financial capital. That is, banks control the industry.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 12 January 2022 07: 29
            +3
            Quote: Fanur Galiev
            That is, banks control the industry

            Yes exactly! Only they did not merge, the Financial Cartel periodically nullifies someone, buys up for a pittance, then nullifies others, and sells the first at a high price! Something like this
        3. ABC-schutze
          ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 14: 08
          +2
          It doesn't matter what kind of capitalism ...

          And it is important that capital is a REALLY self-increasing value. This is the MAIN property of ANY REAL capital.

          But the degradation of the cap. the system, permanently living in ALL-increasing debt, quite logically "transformed" value into the concept of subjective-"virtual" ...

          After the US abandoned the golden cover of the "green" (that is, after the obvious bankruptcy of the American regime) and a series of systematic and SYSTEMIC global crises of 1998-1999, 2008-2009, the very "discussions" about "capitalism" and its "future" became empty armchair scholasticism ...

          For the main causes of these crises, capitalism, by definition, OBJECTIVELY, cannot "eliminate" ... For by "eliminating" them (that is, starting to "live within our means") it will cease to be "capitalism" ...
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 13 January 2022 21: 59
            0
            Quote: ABC-schütze
            And it is important that capital is a REALLY self-increasing value. This is the MAIN property of ANY REAL capital.

            But the degradation of the cap. the system, permanently living in ALL-increasing debt, quite logically "transformed" value into the concept of subjective-"virtual" ...

            + + + good your statement prompted me to an idea that I may not formulate correctly, but there is something in this!
            - If industrial capital is a self-increasing value, then Financial Capital is a self-increasing debt obligations of the clients of the banking system. Can we think together how to oppose them by formulating?
            1. ABC-schutze
              ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 23: 50
              +1
              Excuse me, but it is in the context of the aforementioned so-called. "financial" capital in modern so-called. "market economies" the very object of "representation-opposition" has disappeared...

              For "finance" is where there is "money". And money that fully performs its TWO MAIN functions - to be an EQUIVALENT of value and a MEANS OF PAYMENT, in modern "economy", mutilated by "market" principles, has long been gone ...

              For after the GLOBAL refusal of money issuers from guarantees of their provision with "metal" (gold-silver) coverage, what used to be money (without quotes) has lost the ability to be the equivalent of value, which means it has become simply "banknotes", i.e. just cut paper with watermarks and other means of protection against forgery, including the real faces of American Prez, on oceans of unbacked banknotes, oceans of greenery issued by the Fed ...

              "Cover", in the latter case, for more than half a century, are the "promises" of the next head of the Fed and nothing more. Someone believes that in the event of a hypothetical return of the oceans of emitted "greenery" to their historical homeland (say, carried out by the same Celestial Empire), Uncle Sam will provide them with an equivalent "reception-exchange"? ..

              So, what kind of REAL "financial" capital can, in general, be talking about? ..

              If the former "money" themselves, deprived of a guaranteed and not subject to devaluation (equivalents, in principle, do not "devalue", therefore they are equivalents), having become banknotes, turned into one of the varieties of all kinds of garbage "derivatives"? ..

              And modern so-called. "exchange quotes" of anything, from "stocks-bonds" to "currency rates" are, IN ESSENCE, just a banal "expectation trader", and not at all trading in real assets that carry real value ...

              Not to mention the real growth of their "value-capitalization", which is also "estimated" mainly through momentary "market expectations", and not according to the RESULTS of REAL PRODUCTION ACTIVITIES. In particular, REAL PROFIT, VOLUME GROWTH, etc...

              And this is only a "small part" in the context of the proposed joint reflections.

              For now, I bow out. Think about engineering...
  5. Andrey Moskvin
    Andrey Moskvin 11 January 2022 18: 29
    +35
    Some kind of vile internal impression from this article.
    1. cmax
      cmax 11 January 2022 21: 45
      +12
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      Some kind of vile internal impression from this article.

      Probably something from the late Gaidar, his cheeks shine, his face does not fit into the TV, there is a spoon in a can of caviar on the table behind his back and an appeal from Medvedev, there is no money, but you hold on. And the article is really moronic. -
    2. ABC-schutze
      ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 14: 12
      +3
      Yes, as well as from any deliberately opportunistic lies. Even clothed in a "scientific" and "analytical" form ...
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 13 January 2022 22: 03
        +1
        Quote: ABC-schütze
        Yes, as well as from any deliberately opportunistic lies. Even clothed in a "scientific" and "analytical" form ...

        the article is emphatically neutral, calls to think not in symbols
  6. General failure
    General failure 11 January 2022 18: 36
    +35
    Mass medicine worked perfectly with the treatment of pre-war diseases, with their prevention, but with post-war - everything was much more complicated.

    Author, can I have proofs?
    Personally, I have the exact opposite experience. My father (he is a rural engineer) had a stomach ulcer operated quite successfully in 1975 (alas, then she was treated with an operation, not with pills, as it is now). Still, at about the same time, by the same operation, another of my fellow villagers was saved from stomach cancer. This is just what I know.
    Also, I recall the story of how in the early 80s a girl from the Baltic States had a severed hand sewn on. There was everything - both evacuation by helicopter and urgent transportation by aviation to Moscow to one of the top research institutes. But, even in our time, sewing on a severed hand is a medical sensation without a fool.

    Yes, if, compared with the modern equipment of rural dental offices of those times, everything is sad and depressing, but, after 50 years, "the technology is far from shagnul."
    1. aglet
      aglet 11 January 2022 18: 58
      +26
      "Yes, if, compared with the modern equipment of rural dental offices of those times, everything is sad and depressing, but, for 50 years, the technology is far from shagnul."
      it's a pity only the rural dental offices did not live up to the bright today
    2. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 19: 10
      .
      In the text, I casually touched on this issue - it meant chronic diseases, senile diseases, diseases of a genetic nature, degenerative diseases, cerebral palsy, in part, one could say about insufficient attention to oncology. In general, we are still disentangling the weak contribution of the USSR to research in these areas. Of course, I understand that there would be enough money for everything, but I wanted to focus on the fact that central planning and honey itself. the system paid less attention than it should to the increasing industrialization and increasing prosperity of society, as well as related problems - environmental as well. Many diseases were defeated, but in my opinion, they slept through the "quiet revolution" in cardiovascular diseases and strokes, diabetes was also treated not ideally - I again mean the direction of funds to research these problems. As a result, we overlooked HIV. Specifically, for this I cannot condemn the system because it was overlooked almost everywhere in the world, unfortunately. My task was to point out that the system was far from perfect - contrary to the opinion of many people reading VO. But at the same time, I have no purpose to say that it was a worthless system. It's just that, in my opinion, they started very cheerfully - then they reached a good plateau, and then they lost the momentum and everything got stuck. This happened long before the fall of the USSR, and this, unfortunately, was predetermined by the system itself.
      1. General failure
        General failure 11 January 2022 21: 37
        +16
        In the text, I casually touched on this issue.

        It would be better not to touch. It's in the "better keep quiet and look smart" series.

        chronic diseases, senile diseases

        It cannot be cured. But, it was for these indications that disabilities and free medicines were called. If you think that this is not enough (a small disability pension vs a lot of nothing), then there is nothing to talk to you about.
        But, it is worth noting that there was absolutely no therapy for hopeless patients (who would die like that) under the USSR - it was left to the family. Wait this is being solved with the help of hospices. I don’t know how it’s Wait, but judging by the division of hospices into "good" and "bad" - it’s also not very rosy, but also for the money.

        diseases of a genetic nature

        (facepalm) When your wife got pregnant, did you do a fetal test for Down syndrome? And your parents? By the way, it has been done routinely since the early 80s in our country ...
        And as for the treatment of the gene of diseases, then you are complaining that there were no iPhones in the USSR - these diseases (very experimentally) began to be tried to treat only 5 years ago - see CRISPR technology.

        degenerative diseases

        (facepalm and tears) Are they treated somewhere? Why didn't Hawking get cured then?

        Cerebral palsy

        (facepalm and mocking laughter) Where was the meningitis vaccine developed? And yes, take care of your children from vaccines - they are absolute evil. And meningitis and the subsequent cerebral palsy are unconditional good.

        partly one could say about the lack of attention to oncology

        (boogoga) Read less yellow hype before dinner. And after dinner, too.
        So far, this infection is being treated in only two ways: either by poison, so that the cancer will bend and you will not (chemotherapy), or by operation - to cut off everything that can be cut off in order to cut out the cancer, but you will not bend. And, take my word for it (if you don't want to believe it, google it) in the USSR it was more than happy with this. At least two groups of substances for chemotherapy were discovered in our country.

        but in my opinion they slept through the "quiet revolution" on cardiovascular diseases and strokes

        Was there some kind of revolution? As far as I know, healthy lifestyles rule most of all against these sores. In the USSR, with the promotion of healthy lifestyles, everything was a bunch.

        As a result, we overlooked HIV

        Um, somewhere in 83m I read a note in "Science and Life" that they found a very strange sore with holes in Los Angeles ... Ida, the treatment of any venereal disease in the USSR was a moral test. But not because it is difficult to treat, but because the whole chain of infection was opened in the skin vein - with whom, when and how many times did you wind up at the end. And because of this, such dumb consequences for a career and family could have crawled out that just ah.
        Tripper could still be cured with illegally purchased penicillin, but sephilis could only give up and endure humiliating interrogations. It’s a very dumb disease. And AIDS then simply would not have had a chance. For it would be revealed in the same way.
        The heyday of AIDS began precisely in the 90s, when this practice of "unwinding the chain of infection" was abolished.

        In short, my opinion, before you write, it would not hurt to study the material. And what happened is some kind of nausea from the half-digested contents of your brains. Moreover, the impression is that you fed your brain from a trash heap such as tape. Lies.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 12 January 2022 21: 51
          -5
          "In the USSR, there was a bunch of healthy lifestyles propaganda." Of course, and that is why after work, the majority thumped, this is probably an obligatory component of promoting healthy lifestyles. Especially when the dry law introduced so many healthy living in queues for alcohol stood.
          1. ABC-schutze
            ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 14: 26
            +2
            This is where, after work, "most thumped"? ..

            Near our house, one plant (only of the "republican" level) has built TWO stadiums. And on them competitions of the city and republican level were held. That is to say, "glade" was quite adequate. And the second one is specially "for training". Incl. and young ...

            And they were available to EVERYONE and AT ANY TIME. Except when work was carried out on the lawn in the "clearing" (mowing, marking, etc.)

            And there, before the collapse of the USSR, EVERY day people of ALL ages, from boys to pensioners, from a nearby microdistrict in the morning and ran and "swayed". REALLY, not "from time to time" ... And after the collapse of the USSR, homeless people "settled" in the thoroughly rebuilt referee's and locker rooms ... Here they are, really "booze". A lot ... And from morning to evening. And not "after work", which you lost ...

            And a year later, the "stadiums" that had turned into homeless people and a dump of running off "rubber" for the newly-minted, "happy owners" of imported garbage cans with a ten-year run were gone ... Like the plant ...
    3. V means B
      V means B 11 January 2022 23: 41
      0
      They sewed two feet to her.
  7. Hiroo Onoda
    Hiroo Onoda 11 January 2022 18: 37
    .
    I applaud while standing!
    As recently as yesterday, I fought, trying to prove that the gross product is not taken out of thin air and that there could be no taxes in the USSR, they were simply "included", but they vehemently minded me for this axiom.
    Nothing is free, nothing is taken out of thin air, is it really so difficult to understand these simple truths?
    The fact that someone is free means that someone else has spent their time and efforts on it. It cannot be otherwise.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 18: 46
      +28
      Quote: Hiroo Onoda
      Nothing is free, nothing is taken out of thin air, is it really so difficult to understand these simple truths?

      Free - does not exist, of course. Only here the author's conclusions from this do not become more true :)))) He, alas, does not understand either economics or sociology
      A simple example - look at what percentage of the population owns their own housing in the United States and compare it with the USSR / RF (hint - now in the US about 65%, in the RF - 85%)
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 11 January 2022 19: 26
        +14
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        (hint - now in the US about 65%, in the Russian Federation - 85%)

        It's useless. It is useless to prove something to those who believe in the invisible hand of the market and holy correct capitalism. Surplus value for them is an empty phrase, the growth of productive forces is something incomprehensible, competition is always a blessing because the artist sees it that way. And what we came to thanks to the capitalist system and what horror we will come to it somehow happened by itself under the influence of some incomprehensible forces and capitalism is not to blame for this.
      2. Knell wardenheart
        11 January 2022 19: 35
        .
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Quote: Hiroo Onoda
        Nothing is free, nothing is taken out of thin air, is it really so difficult to understand these simple truths?

        Free - does not exist, of course. Only here the author's conclusions from this do not become more true :)))) He, alas, does not understand either economics or sociology
        A simple example - look at what percentage of the population owns their own housing in the United States and compare it with the USSR / RF (hint - now in the US about 65%, in the RF - 85%)

        Own housing! Oh, what a beautiful parameter! The room in the barracks is also "one's own dwelling". And a room in a communal apartment is also your own home.
        The main question here is formulated like this - HOW much is your own? Can a person sell it, leave it as an inheritance? If it cannot - this is not "own housing", it is actually a lease from the state. How is this system different from the lease practice in the United States? You are now hiding behind brackets a much greater social mobility of the population of the same USA, where there are more places for comfortable living and work than in the Russian Federation and the USSR - a person went and rented, he liked it - he lives, he did not like it - he left. Does such a system have advantages between the fact that the conditional uncle was born in Magadan, registered in Magadan and has a hut there - but will not go anywhere from there, because the state needs him in Magadan? In which structure does a person have more rights and freedom, tell me please? :)
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 20: 26
          +14
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          Own housing! Oh, what a beautiful parameter! The room in the barracks is also "one's own dwelling". And a room in a communal apartment is also your own home.

          Yes.
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          The main question here is formulated like this - HOW much is your own? Can a person sell it, leave it as an inheritance? If it cannot - this is not "own housing", it is actually a lease from the state. How is this system different from the lease practice in the United States?

          M-d ...
          Mil people, the very first AND BASIC difference between the rent of the USA and the housing of the USSR - you have to pay for the rent. Moreover, it is quite expensive. And leaving home by inheritance was easy, if the child by that time did not have a home of her own. They just re-registered it as one of the heirs, and that's it. Likewise, no one bothered to change housing.
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          You are now hiding behind brackets a much greater social mobility of the population of the same USA, where there are more places for comfortable living and work than in the Russian Federation and the USSR

          Badly mistaken.
          Just in the USSR, mobility was very even at the level - and this was achieved by the allocation of housing stock to enterprises. That is, yes, somewhere in Moscow it was possible to wait for housing until Morkovkin's plot, but on the periphery it happened almost on the day of employment. Just the same opportunity to get not only a decent salary but also housing was an excellent way to attract young specialists to new enterprises.
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          In which structure does a person have more rights and freedom, tell me please? :)

          Definitely in the Soviet
          1. Knell wardenheart
            11 January 2022 20: 37
            .
            Yeah, that is, from your point of view, a one-room, no-alternative bollard is better than the ability to freely migrate around the country and live where you like to live? What an interesting understanding of freedom!
            An intelligible mechanism for the privatization of housing appeared only after the collapse of the USSR. Before that, I had to twist various muddy schemes that do not always end well.
            Do you know why an American child moves out of his family much more often than ours, when he comes of age? Probably because he can't wait to plunge into the hellish heat of the housing lease described by you in all the colors of sulfur as soon as possible! According to your logic, it’s great to live with relatives in their idiot - you have to pay 1/3 even if they rent. Still less, huh? But in practice, there is a different process - it means renting a house is much more profitable than you imagine, in terms of the totality of properties.
            What's the difference? You plow for an enterprise and it gives you an apartment (you still have a part of the salary for this, and you don’t know) - or you rent an apartment and pay rent for it yourself, depending on your preferences, wallet, etc. It makes no difference - but in the Western system you have much more choice. And also no one will chase you with a broom if you suddenly want to rest without work, while accumulating funds.
            Your last passage suggests that your attitude to the issue is much more subjective than mine.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 20: 41
              +7
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              Yeah, that is, from your point of view, a one-room, no-alternative bollard is better than the ability to freely migrate around the country and live where you like to live? What an interesting understanding of freedom!

              Nice man, you are delusional.
              That is, in your opinion, an American who does not have a home and will not have it anywhere until he earns money for it or takes a mortgage (the same slavery as with a residence permit, only you have to pay for it) is more free than a person who has housing and is able to leave for many places where he will receive housing for free? :)))
              What are you talking about?
              1. Knell wardenheart
                11 January 2022 20: 54
                -7
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                Yeah, that is, from your point of view, a one-room, no-alternative bollard is better than the ability to freely migrate around the country and live where you like to live? What an interesting understanding of freedom!

                Nice man, you are delusional.
                That is, in your opinion, an American who does not have a home and will not have it anywhere until he earns money for it or takes a mortgage (the same slavery as with a residence permit, only you have to pay for it) is more free than a person who has housing and is able to leave for many places where he will receive housing for free? :)))
                What are you talking about?

                That is, according to your logic, the possibilities of an inhabitant of a holupa somewhere in Anadyr simply grow infinitely from the fact that he has a room there? He is attached to her, this creates a circle of his choice, which in turn creates a circle of his further choice. And if he decides to pull somewhere, being over 30, the state will tell him "where are you climbing, Huasia? Come on." This limits his choice - the state does not need him wherever he wants. This limits his freedom. But I’m right, bored with the discussion with you, you are a boor. All the best !
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 21: 11
                  +2
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  That is, according to your logic, the possibilities of an inhabitant of a holupa somewhere in Anadyr simply grow infinitely from the fact that he has a room there?

                  The presence of an apartment DOES NOT LIMIT your freedom in ANY way. You are free to leave, as it was in the USSR. Another question is that you can come to the same Moscow only at the invitation of the enterprise where you will work (then you will be given a residence permit), but if there is no work, an American will also not go anywhere.
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  He is attached to her, this creates a circle of his choice, which in turn creates a circle of his further choice. And if he decides to pull somewhere, being over 30, the state will tell him "where are you climbing, Huasia? Come on."

                  This is just enchanting nonsense. No one has ever stopped in the USSR from leaving to work in another city, moreover, in a number of places you would have been given an apartment for that.
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  But I’m right, bored with the discussion with you, you are a boor.

                  You could say that, but in this case I just called a spade a spade.
                2. Senior seaman
                  Senior seaman 11 January 2022 22: 00
                  +7
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  That is, according to your logic, the possibility of an inhabitant of a holupa somewhere in Anadyr

                  Your trouble is that you have very little idea of ​​the realities of the USSR, which is why you chose such an unfortunate example.
                  A person who worked enough time in Anadyr, that is, who, in addition to the basic rate, also received a regional coefficient, plus allowances, could easily save up an amount sufficient to buy a home on the Black Sea coast or at any other end of the Union with a favorable climate.
                  1. tralflot1832
                    tralflot1832 11 January 2022 22: 46
                    -2
                    1983 Sochi, a house not ah 60 squares 25 rubles, ah 000 squares 100 rubles. Why do I know relatives sold to northerners and lo and behold, northerners "ordinary accountants" of enterprises. 35 - 000 already wanted to buy 1988 - 89 $, offers are mainly from those leaving for the promised land. After 10, prices fell 000-15 times.
                    1. Senior seaman
                      Senior seaman 11 January 2022 22: 52
                      +3
                      Quote: tralflot1832
                      , northerners are "rank-and-file accountants" of enterprises.

                      Or there could be "ordinary miners" like my father.
                      1. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 11 January 2022 22: 56
                        -2
                        "Ordinary" in quotation marks, then it's easy. our accountant had a furniture set costing 12 rubles in 000.
                      2. Senior seaman
                        Senior seaman 11 January 2022 23: 06
                        +5
                        I do not know about what "accountants" you are talking about, but their rate was not the highest.
                        Our family lived in a workers' village in Kolyma. And I want to say that people of working specialties earned not bad (if they had experience). We did not have a headset of 12000 thousand, but I was sent to the south regularly and a house on the mainland (as we said) was built.
                        If specifically for Anadyr, then EMNIP is also mining gold in the vicinity, plus some kind of port, a fish processing plant seems to be still working. so it was possible to make money there too.
                  2. 72jora72
                    72jora72 12 January 2022 04: 25
                    +4
                    A person who worked enough time in Anadyr, that is, who, in addition to the basic rate, also received a regional coefficient, plus allowances, could easily save up an amount sufficient to buy a home on the Black Sea coast
                    In Chukotka (where I still live, and where my three children were born) under the USSR, my father received 1000 rubles a month (driver), mother 600-700 rubles (merchandise expert) .......
                    1. Senior seaman
                      Senior seaman 12 January 2022 12: 42
                      +1
                      Quote: 72jora72
                      In Chukotka (where I still live, and where my three children were born) under the USSR, my father received 1000 rubles a month (driver), mother 600-700 rubles (merchandise expert) ...

                      Sobsno, I'm just talking about it! hi
                    2. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 12 January 2022 22: 03
                      -2
                      And how many goods then cost there probably more than in the country.
                      1. 72jora72
                        72jora72 13 January 2022 13: 03
                        0
                        The difference (3rd belt) was 10-12 percent ...
              2. evgen1221
                evgen1221 11 January 2022 21: 50
                +1
                And he will get that housing? One, two, but for example, he does not want to go to the 5-room room in Ustmorozinsk, where, for fun, there is choral singing to the moon, but his state forces him to go there.
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 20: 43
              +2
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              But in practice, there is a different process - it means renting a house is much more profitable than you imagine, in terms of the totality of properties.

              It is very profitable to work for food and rent, and not own anything other than a used car and personal belongings. And so many Americans live today
              1. evgen1221
                evgen1221 11 January 2022 21: 55
                -6
                So many that the suburbs of their small towns are bigger than some of our millionaires, and they live so badly that they have grown up to 350 million. We are lucky to die out 2 million a year because of the unsettled life and unwillingness to arrange it, we beat in the balls with a rake, condemning that the next rake is not so it will already hurt.)))
            3. EvilLion
              EvilLion 12 January 2022 09: 09
              +2
              No one was forbidden to migrate to the USSR either, rent out an old apartment, get a new one, and communal apartments are nothing more than the actual ability of the state to produce this housing.

              In the United States, the number of citizens over 25 years old who cannot move out, but would like to, have long been above the norm. Renting is a very simple and convenient system, and much more convenient, including your own home, the acquisition of which is always a huge one-time investment, perhaps through getting into debt slavery for tens of years, but it works ideally only in a healthy economy and when housing, in principle, is not a shortage. In the same China, there is now an increase in housing prices, since it is critically important to have a residence permit there, and everyone wants to buy, which means housing is an excellent object for speculation. USSR with its rapid urbanization to physical. the possibility of renting could have approached the 70s, but thanks to the efforts of Khrushchev, this problem stretched until the collapse of the country (under Stalin, the pace of housing commissioning was higher, and the housing itself was of better quality). If housing in the USSR in the 70s were freely sold and rented out, then its prices would be available only for the upper half of the masses, in terms of prosperity.
          2. your1970
            your1970 11 January 2022 20: 43
            +3
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            They just re-registered it as one of the heirs, and that's it.

            You could not to do this - if you were not an owner in a private house.
            Usually someone was prescribed to the old people ...
            But this was not always possible.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 21: 12
              +1
              Quote: your1970
              You could not do this - if you were not the owner of a private house.

              As much as I could. A dwelling that was not owned could be re-registered on a descendant registered in it. And private houses could even be rented out - subject to certain conditions, this was not considered unearned income.
              1. your1970
                your1970 11 January 2022 23: 32
                +3
                I repeat - this is not an inheritance. You could register for the old people - no more
              2. dauria
                dauria 11 January 2022 23: 51
                -6
                could be re-registered on the descendant registered in it

                It is on the prescribed. But there is no need to worry. The deceased was discharged, the prescribed ones remain. But how will you get out of the situation with your grandmother's apartment? To register for her, you need to be discharged
                from their own. And the norms of the minimum area were, they might not have been prescribed.
                So funny situations turned out. Two grandmothers, two apartments, and the only underage grandson will not receive a single one.
                So they invented all sorts of exchange of apartments with moving into one, proving that they need care and other nonsense.
                But there were sudden deaths, and different cities, and divorces - exchanges.
                Fun. Plus shadow surcharges for exchanges. Plus smart aunts in housing offices and passport offices, who know perfectly well whether time is pressing you or not.
                No, Andrey. Everything is more honest now. Harder, harder. But more honest. Nobody will move you in the line for housing for getting into a sobering-up station. laughing
      3. Hiroo Onoda
        Hiroo Onoda 11 January 2022 19: 35
        -4
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        does not happen, of course

        Well, my comrades stuck minuses to me when I voiced this truth)
        no economy

        I disagree here, I see that the author understands economics
        no sociology

        I will not argue, I myself do not really understand it, but I do not argue about what I do not understand)
        percentage of the population owns their own housing

        Here the question is complex and debatable, in my opinion. Mainly due to the fact that in the USSR the very concept of "owning one's own home" is relative. How this right is formalized, how it is inherited, what the author wrote about in the article, and there are many more nuances, respectively.
      4. Liam
        Liam 11 January 2022 19: 47
        -5
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        A simple example - look at what percentage of the population owns their own housing in the United States and compare it with the USSR / RF (hint - now in the US about 65%, in the RF - 85%)

        The morning began on the collective farm ...

        Well, let's say in Italy 80% of the population owns real estate. And what of this?

        Please us% of the owners of housing in the USSR. Namely the owners who can buy, sell, leave a legacy. Dispose in general. And it is apartments / houses, and not kennels in dorms, barracks and communal apartments of pre-revolutionary construction.

        And by the way ... you can officer. proof about 85% of Russians who have their own home?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 20: 56
          +3
          Quote: Liam
          And by the way ... you can officer. proof about 85% of Russians who have their own home?

          well, links to Eurostat are not assets now, for some reason,
          Many Russian citizens have their own homes and are generally satisfied with the existing housing conditions, according to a study of the quality of life of Russians, which was jointly conducted by Rosgosstrakh Zhizn and Otkrytie Bank. More than 80% of survey participants said they have their own housing. This is consistent with the data of last year's poll by VTsIOM and Dom.RF, which showed that about 86% of the population have their own housing.

          Immediately I can give such links https://svspb.net/danmark/vladelec-zhilja.php
          There is also VTsIOM data that 11% of the population rent housing.
          1. Liam
            Liam 11 January 2022 21: 18
            +1
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

            well, links to Eurostat are not assets now, for some reason,

            )))
            It is probably unavailable because, I apologize, you rub in your glasses out of habit, because you manipulated nonsense about 85% of those who have housing, forgetting to add a passage about the fact that this figure appeared in this way:
            The insurance company Rosgosstrakh Life and Bank Otkrytie have published the results of a survey of the quality of life of Russians, conducted in October this year using a telephone survey. It was attended by 1503 people from various regions of the Russian Federation; 80,5% of them talked about the presence of housing in the property.
            You somehow modestly missed the passage about the telephone survey of as many as 1500 people.

            It's the same here
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            There is also VTsIOM data that 11% of the population rent housing.

            You again showed forgetfulness and forgot to indicate that according to the same poll by VTsIOM

            Most Russians today live in apartment buildings (65%), and more than half (54%) of those surveyed have their own apartment or room. Moreover, every tenth (11%) rents a house

            And again, this is not ROSSTAT, but a poll.
            I would very much like to see the information of ROSSTAT and not these contradictory figures compiled on the basis of a survey of 1.000 people by phone.

            And the same statistics on the USSR Not your inventions without relying on figures, but the figures themselves.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 21: 23
              +2
              Quote: Liam
              The insurance company Rosgosstrakh Life and Bank Otkrytie have published the results of a survey of the quality of life of Russians, conducted in October this year using a telephone survey. It was attended by 1503 people from various regions of the Russian Federation; 80,5% of them told about the ownership of housing.

              Liam, learn how to count, please :)))
              I spoke about 85%, in the passage you quoted - 80,5%
              Quote: Liam
              You again showed forgetfulness and forgot to indicate that according to the same poll by VTsIOM

              Most Russians today live in apartment buildings (65%), and more than half (54%) of those surveyed have their own apartment or room. Moreover, every tenth (11%) rents a house

              Which is quite consistent with the recommended 85%, since the rest of the people live in private houses, which are rented much less often.
              Quote: Liam
              I would very much like to see the information of ROSSTAT

              Look who's in the way! Suddenly it will turn out to refute me :)))
              1. Liam
                Liam 11 January 2022 21: 56
                +1
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                I told

                You, as always, are talking nonsense. The figures compiled as a result of a telephone survey (and with a huge spread from survey to survey) 1.500 people are not statistics, but eyewash. It is strange that such an outstanding forum economist operates with such nonsense instead of Rosstat data.
                For the USSR we will not wait for data (even from at least VTsIOM) about 85%.


                PySy.In Italy (and in the rest of the EU) in all large and small cities there are apartment buildings of the same type of a fairly standard layout of 30-40 squares. Small rooms, microscopic kitchens, mostly 5-storey houses, without an elevator .... Nothing reminds? ... In general, one to one the notorious Soviet Khrushchevs, the ultimate dream of a Soviet worker for which he plowed 20/30 years in queues and which he supposedly got for free. And in which he was not the owner of course, but responsible tenant.
                True, in Italy, these houses are much better made, much more elegant, the facades are well-groomed, the stairs are covered with marble, etc. In general, the Soviet Khrushchev was not lying around in this regard.

                So, the apartments in these houses are state-owned. The rent is completely symbolic (10/20 euros per month), the communal apartment there is also of the same order of magnitude. People sign up in a queue to get such an apartment and live in it all their lives. , sell, privatize, it is impossible.
                Well, exactly the same as the USSR paradise in general .... It's a pity that this is the so-called social housing (in Italian, case popolari). In general, this housing is given to all the unfortunate and very poor. No decent person would even think of settling in such a house.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 January 2022 07: 00
                  0
                  Quote: Liam
                  It is strange that such an outstanding forum economist would use such nonsense instead of Rosstat data.

                  Liam, you, as happens in 99% of cases, have absolutely no idea what you are writing.
                  In principle, Rosstat cannot have such statistics. Because the concept of "have their own home" is practically not documented in any way. The maximum that Rosstat can give is the number of direct homeowners (if it can), but it will always and significantly less than those living in their own homes.
                  A simple example is a young family, he is without an apartment, she is with a dowry in the form of the same kopeck piece. They give birth to a child who is not registered for ownership (only prescribed). In total, three live in their own homes, but the direct owner is only one.
                  Americans derived their percentages according to the US Census Bureau, as of the second quarter of 2014, only 64,7% of Americans have their own housing, more than a third of the population (35,3%) are tenants. That is, we are talking specifically about those who live in their own houses (in my example above = 3 people)
                  Similar studies show that the largest share of home ownership, for the most part, belongs to countries that come from the socialist camp. And this is natural - the legacy of damned socialism :)
                  In our country, such data can only be obtained from surveys. In fact, free privatization of housing has led to the fact that a significant part of the population became owners. At the same time, it is impossible to measure this share - there is no such indicator. Rosstat calculates the share of privately owned housing stock, which is a completely different indicator.
                  Quote: Liam
                  For the USSR we will not wait for data (even from at least VTsIOM) about 85%.

                  open any population census, say - for 1989) and you will be happy
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 12 January 2022 07: 26
                    +3
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Rosstat cannot have such statistics in principle

                    Oh my God ... in Russia, are there any special laws of statistics that it is impossible to count the number of apartments, houses and other real estate? The Italian ISTAT or the European EUROSTAT will calmly give anyone annual data about the number of real estate, who are its owners, how many of them are mortgagees, how much mortgage they pay on average per month, how much they rent, how much they pay per month, etc. Russia lives in the Stone Age and does not has your data on this topic?
                    Here is the data for Italy for 2021
                    https://www.rigatti.it/it/istat-piccole

                    Or has a great economist never heard of an inventory? How, in your opinion, does the state collect the annual property tax, or have you never heard of it either? Then I inform you that by December 1, the Federal Tax Service is waiting for the payment of property tax by expensive Russians.

                    The tax formula is defined as the product of the cadastral value of the object reduced by the tax deduction and the interest rate (it depends on the type of real estate). When it comes to apartments, this rate is 0,1–0,3% of the cost. For elite housing (more than 300 million rubles), the rate is 2%. The cadastral value of the property in the tax notice has already been reduced by the amount of the tax deduction.

                    FTS sends its bills on the basis of telephone surveys of VTsIOM or something, or on the basis of population censuses of some furry year?
                    Aren't you ashamed to call yourself an economist?)


                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    open any population census, say - for 1989) and you will be happy

                    Comrade economist ... Have you at least read the table of contents of this table? You are the difference between Live и Are Owners catch?
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 January 2022 08: 56
                      0
                      Liam, re-read what I wrote to you :) Maybe it will work, although it is unlikely.
                      Quote: Liam
                      Or has a great economist never heard of an inventory? How, in your opinion, does the state collect the annual property tax, or have you never heard of it either? Then I inform you that by December 1, the Federal Tax Service is waiting for the payment of property tax by expensive Russians.

                      Once again, for those who think they know something about. The family consists of two adults and three children. They live in an apartment owned by both spouses. Property tax is paid by TWO PERSONS - husband and wife. FIVE live in their own apartment.
                      What are you going to determine there according to the inventory?
                      Quote: Liam
                      Comrade economist ... Have you at least read the table of contents of this table? Do you catch the difference between Live and Are Owners?

                      I catch it, and my opponent perceives that, speaking of the USSR, what is being discussed is a lifetime free lease, and not property in the literal sense of the word. Only you does not catch this
                2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 January 2022 07: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Liam
                  In general, one to one notorious Soviet Khrushchev, the ultimate dream of a Soviet worker for which he plowed 20/30 years in queues

                  wow you have a fantasy :))))
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 12 January 2022 07: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Wow

                    Here ... what vintage nostalgics pass off as an unprecedented USSR achievement is social housing, which in decaying capitalism the state gives out for free, as it were, to put it mildly ...rogue
                    1. ABC-schutze
                      ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 14: 59
                      +1
                      You, as a "market man", "did not notice" the main thing ... In a capitalist state, unlike the Soviet one, permanently living in debt, the aforementioned insolvent "rogues" are quite systematically and successfully breeding ...
                3. ABC-schutze
                  ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 15: 12
                  +1
                  "In general, one to one notorious Soviet Khrushchevs, the ultimate dream of a Soviet worker for which he plowed 20/30 years in queues and which he supposedly got for free."
                  *************************************************
                  First, it's a lie ...

                  A Soviet citizen was queued for free housing not for "20-30 years", but for 5-6 years ... And even then, only in large settlements. In areas where housing was provided faster ...

                  And young specialists sent for distribution after universities, generally for a couple of years ... This time ...

                  And I would have looked at who and how WOULD live in Italy and what WOULD be built there, if Italy suffered the same economic destruction and damage as the USSR did during World War II ... These are two ...

                  You are also a "family car fleet" of a Soviet and an Italian citizen, compare ...

                  And, at the same time, the Soviet and "Italian" fares in public transport ... And the cost of spa treatment ...

                  And, most importantly, the cost of "kilowatt x hour", one of the main economic, SYSTEM indicators, for a Soviet citizen and an "Italian" ...

                  By the way, why in "powerful" and "developed" Italy the metro, better than the Moscow one, could not be built? ..
              2. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 11 January 2022 22: 11
                0
                in these 85 percent you voiced, perhaps those who have a mortgage are included? otherwise I will not stretch these numbers in any way - on my sample among my friends .. so a mortgage is not property - this is considered a form of "lease" from the bank until you pay everything to a penny .. until the mortgage is paid - the person is NOT THE OWNER in fact .. although of course it's nice to say, my apartment or house ... and even zaregan like you .. but she's a bank .. and without mortgages, how many owners do we have? percent 30?
                1. your1970
                  your1970 11 January 2022 23: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  how many owners do we have without mortgages? percent 30?

                  73% residential homes have registered OWNER - not a mortgage ...
                  You just forgot about people on earth in humanity ...
                  1. 2 Level Advisor
                    2 Level Advisor 11 January 2022 23: 38
                    +2
                    who took it on a mortgage - how owner also spelled out in the same column as that of a non-mortgagee .. but in the line of restrictions, burdened with a mortgage from such a bank .. many acquaintances and mortgage houses live .. besides, I did not say - a house or an apartment - I mean the total percentage of housing. .the houses are of course much larger than non-mortgage ones ..
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 11 January 2022 23: 51
                      +2
                      As an employee of Rosreestr - I am aware of lol lol
                      I repeat - 73% of REGISTERED houses have owner - no mortgages.
                      Thank God I'm not interested in an apartment for work - I'm a state land inspector
                      Naturally, there are still houses without rights to house and land - with which we are at war
                2. nerd.su
                  nerd.su 12 January 2022 01: 13
                  0
                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  in these 85 percent you voiced, perhaps those who have a mortgage are included?

                  one might think that Americans are buying housing entirely without a mortgage.
                  Get involved in an argument, see where it started, and don't just cling to the words.
                  1. 2 Level Advisor
                    2 Level Advisor 12 January 2022 08: 38
                    +2
                    I answered this - "A simple example - look what percentage of the population owns their own housing in the USA and compare it with the USSR / RF (hint - now in the USA about 65%, in the RF - 85%)" and yes .. in the USA too most about .. probably even more mortgages, but with their interest rate, they take a mortgage much less worrying ..
                    1. nerd.su
                      nerd.su 12 January 2022 09: 38
                      +1
                      Well, if we compare the owners of the two capitalist countries, it is illogical to point out that the mortgagee is not a full-fledged owner. The situation is the same.
                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      in the USA it's about the same ... probably they even have more mortgages, but with their interest rate they take out mortgages much less worrying ..

                      Apparently, therefore, there periodically inflate and burst bubbles in the real estate market. Yes, such that the whole world is in a fever ...
                3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 January 2022 09: 50
                  +1
                  Both in the USA and in our country, mortgages are included.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 12 January 2022 09: 14
          0
          In Italy, this housing was built a very long time ago, because there the country in the past was much richer than RI, and the requirements for this housing are lower, but now these old buildings are standing, it is cheaper to repair them than to massively churn out Soviet panels for a rapidly urbanizing country ... There has been no population growth in Europe for a long time, which means there is no need to increase residential development.
      5. Vadim237
        Vadim237 11 January 2022 19: 55
        -7
        In the US, housing prices are much higher than in Russia, and the population there is 2 times more than in Russia.
      6. ViacheslavS
        ViacheslavS 11 January 2022 21: 15
        +3
        A simple example - look at what percentage of the population owns their own housing in the United States and compare it with the USSR / RF (hint - now in the US about 65%, in the RF - 85%)


        Then if you really compare, then it is worth comparing how much the average American changes for the life of cities or Shatov, what is the mobility of the population? You can also compare Housing space per person. And if we compare with the USSR, then the apartments for the most part belonged to the state, it was not so easy to sell them, to inherit them too.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 21: 19
          +3
          Quote: ViacheslavS
          Then if you really compare, then it is worth comparing how much the average American changes for the life of cities or Shatov, what is the mobility of the population?

          Compare who's in the way?
          Quote: ViacheslavS
          You can also compare Housing space per person

          Please compare :))))
          Quote: ViacheslavS
          And if we compare with the USSR, then the apartments for the most part belonged to the state, it was not so easy to sell them, to inherit them too.

          By inheritance, it was easier to pass them on to a prescribed descendant. If the latter has not already received an apartment somewhere else. Your own apartment in the USA usually belongs not to you, but to the bank to which you pay the mortgage, and God forbid you lose your job ... But we only remember about registration :)
          1. ViacheslavS
            ViacheslavS 11 January 2022 21: 26
            0
            Compare who's in the way?


            So everyone has been compared for a long time, Americans are one of the most mobile nations, Housing space per person is more than in Europe.

            By inheritance, it was easier to pass them on to a prescribed descendant. If the latter has not already received an apartment somewhere else.

            Well, that is, in fact, in the USSR, the apartment did not belong to a citizen, he is forced to somehow pervert / humiliate himself, register someone (registration is a separate conversation).

            Your own apartment in the USA usually belongs not to you, but to the bank to which you pay the mortgage, and God forbid you lose your job ...


            Until the mortgage is paid, the apartment is pledged by the bank, losing a job is, in principle, an unpleasant thing at least under any system. But with a mortgage there is such a nice bonus, even mortgage housing can always be sold and minus interest to the bank (which were low in the West) your funds, and if the price of real estate has grown so you can also earn money, in the Czech Republic at one time there was a mortgage for citizens at all was without a down payment.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 January 2022 09: 03
              +1
              Quote: ViacheslavS
              Well, that is, in fact, in the USSR, the apartment did not belong to a citizen

              Of course it didn’t - there were free lifetime lease rights. But this does not mean that the apartment could not be inherited.
              1. Nekarmadlen
                Nekarmadlen 12 January 2022 12: 54
                +2
                Of course it didn’t - there were free lifetime lease rights. But this does not mean that the apartment could not be inherited [quote] [/ quote] .. Andrey, you are now wishful thinking ... There was a concept of a responsible tenant, but his capabilities were not comparable to the ability to dispose of his property of the current owner ... It was very difficult to register even a close relative in your apartment .. If the room is in a communal apartment, then only children, grandchildren, nephews and other close relatives are gone .. It is not easy to register in another region just like that ...
        2. nerd.su
          nerd.su 12 January 2022 01: 38
          +2
          Quote: ViacheslavS
          Then if you really compare, then it is worth comparing how much the average American changes for the life of cities or Shatov, what is the mobility of the population?

          here it should be noted that the USSR did not encourage any mobility of the population, but only useful for the development of production or a certain region.
          And the mobility of Americans does not come from a good life, but from the lack of decent work nearby.

          The mobility of the population in the USSR can be estimated, for example, by the number of non-citizens in Latvia. Even in 2021, this is ten percent of the population of Latvia!
      7. evgen1221
        evgen1221 11 January 2022 21: 43
        +1
        It is incorrect to put this as a plus that we have 85%. Do not forget that amer's people are mobile and if they offer a job for a year on the other side of the country but with a higher pay of at least 1000 bucks, then the person easily dumps them, rents housing there, and after a year, if there is something more profitable, he will bring them to the other end of the country. It is important here that it is easy to implement, while the housing is very good and not a bug in a communal apartment for an overdrive. And do not believe it but amers to rent housing is profitable as long as there is strength and desire to work and earn money. And what is the point for us to sit for a good, talented specialist in our own city, conditionally, in our own housing, when this housing keeps him anchored in this city where he cannot earn, but 100% will be overwhelmed with work in the neighboring region, but in order to move there you need to earn money here it is even now, but here it is not in demand, plus after moving to a new place, the living conditions also do not want to be very different from a cozy apartment, but you try to walk around the apartments that are offered for rent (the pigsty sometimes looks better for housing than what is offered - barnaul 2021 room in a communal apartment 15000r / month plus housing and communal services, 1 room 25t - from the decoration, the remnants of wallpaper and a pissing mattress). And how do you move to work? You need to save up at least 55t on the spot to try to leave for a more demanded place, but how to save it? Then you will think a hundred times, but you generally need to be at work but live in a barn because renting high-quality housing from us does not cover the benefits from increased income or is sitting at home and picking your nose out of boredom, working only to pay for housing, but your own and better than sarting in another place where you are in demand and at work, but the further from home the rent, the higher all the benefits are eaten away from travel takik. Just from personal experience of a voyage in the summer for earning money (in the coffin I saw more such work, there is a lot of work, but at the end of the month you can hardly get out of the minus and it is precisely because of renting a house and equipping it, because what you move to without labor is not useful and where to live it can be overwhelming or unprofitable for a circle)
    2. aglet
      aglet 11 January 2022 19: 00
      +7
      "and what could not have been taxes in the USSR"
      and who and where said that there were no taxes in the USSR?
    3. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 19: 16
      -1
      The free system itself for many things is quite an interesting concept and has a place in existence - BUT! It was necessary to compensate for this system not only from "hidden taxes" - but also to a substantial extent from the increase in the foreign trade activity of the USSR. Allowing part of the margin to compensate for these projects - this would unload the state and expand funds. The second point - a more flexible planned response to needs was needed - over the years it increased more and more, while progress was accelerating. The third point - it was desirable to introduce some kind of OFFICIAL market influence mechanisms on everything listed in the article. And if in medicine or construction these elements began to appear at the very least, they were not in education - as a result, the personnel of the USSR lost their professional flexibility in comparison with foreign ones. You can write a lot about this, this topic is primarily interesting to me as an EXPERIENCE of successes and mistakes - from which you can mold a more effective version suitable for our soil and avoiding the bulk of the mistakes of the original. I believe this is possible.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 11 January 2022 20: 01
        +8
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        I believe that it is possible
        + + + +
        in the late USSR, "advanced" methods of management were introduced - brigade contracting, self-sufficiency and cost accounting, etc. ... which were actually from a market economy. Imagine a shop that is actually to the left - a cooperative sells products without fulfilling its obligations to subcontractors? at the same time they have bad money !! or a brigade contract - for those in power, in fact, an enterprise for money laundering !! these methods created a huge imbalance in the industry, deficits, confusion, etc. ... The party oligarchy muttered dogmatic mantras and personally enriched themselves by forgetting about the masses. And it should have put pressure on the USSR Academy of Sciences to work out a system for the development of the economy and society.
        The next point was fashionable self-criticism. That is, the party leader publicly repented and admitted miscalculations, it was believed that the comrade realized and remained in his place. Personal responsibility for failure to fulfill the assigned task was lost !! The same as now with Putin's Decrees !!!
      2. sniperino
        sniperino 12 January 2022 11: 22
        +2
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        EXPERIENCE of successes and mistakes
        Any attempt to question the concept of Paradise Lost by members of the Forward to the Past! punish with furious minus and swearing at the doubter. There can be no systemic miscalculations in paradise.
        I got a job in 83 to work in Moscow on a construction site, buying into the promise of Inpredstroy "a hostel will be provided, and after 3 years - a living space." In the course of hammering the frozen earth with a crowbar (leveling it under the formwork in the pit), I found out from my colleagues that the "living space" is a dormitory in an apartment. A three-ruble note in Khrushchev: a bachelor lives in a small bedroom, a married couple without a child lives in a large bedroom, and a family with a small child in the hall. The prospect of living for ten years in such a "Voronya Slobodka", moving from one living space to another due to a change in marital status, did not suit me. I’ll say more, I ran away, frightened of difficulties.
        On the other hand, I also doubt whether it is possible today to buy an apartment from a concrete worker.
        1. Knell wardenheart
          12 January 2022 12: 31
          +4
          Today, in my understanding, is even further from the ideal than yesterday) Still, in order to approach the Ideal, one must assess the degree of imperfection. This can motivate you to move forward. Thank you for your comment!
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 12 January 2022 22: 01
            0
            Quote: Knell Wardenheart
            it is necessary to assess the degree of imperfection
            I agree. In other words, you need to have a project (ideal) and understand the problem, i.e. to answer the question, which of the factors (imperfections) most of all hinders the implementation of the project due to the lack of funds for its elimination or modification, in order to find or create these funds.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 12 January 2022 22: 19
          -2
          If the monolith - no problem.
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 12 January 2022 22: 26
            0
            Certainly. We have not studied seamless technologies, our business is a scrap, a pickaxe, a hammer with nails ... smile I almost forgot the shovel.
    4. at84432384
      at84432384 11 January 2022 19: 42
      +1
      Actually, I put this oxymoron "minus", but reflected "plus". Not to know that there were taxes in the USSR ?! About "the gross product is not taken out of thin air ..." there are no words ...
      1. Andrey Moskvin
        Andrey Moskvin 11 January 2022 19: 55
        +3
        While you read and put one minus, you have already put two pluses ... sad
    5. ABC-schutze
      ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 14: 36
      +1
      And you sit down ...

      Everything described by the author was COMPLETELY free for a specific CONSUMER. A Soviet citizen ... For from YOUR salary, i.e. from the source of HIS PERSONAL INCOME, he DIDN'T PAY FOR ALL OF THE LISTED ...

      EVERYTHING was paid by the STATE ... What is "stubbornly incomprehensible" here and to whom? .. Including the author? ..

      Are you "market people"? .. Exactly, right? .. Well, "go" to the London Higher School of Economics. And they will EXPLAIN to you there "absolutely market" that "personal", "corporate" and "state" budget is LEGALLY and ECONOMICALLY completely DIFFERENT concepts and types of assets ...

      And if for the PERSONAL budget of a particular Soviet citizen, the services of health care, education and housing were FREE according to the Constitution, this does not mean at all that they "cost nothing" to the State Budget ...

      BUT this, once again, "on the fingers", I emphasize, LEGALLY and ECONOMICALLY, ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT budgets ...
  8. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 18: 37
    +24
    The formation of the USSR did not give enough influence to the formation of creative, collegial, and often individual qualities that contribute to the release of specialists for larger and more complex tasks than the bottom of production.

    Very funny:)))))
    It was the Soviet approach to education, when they tried to make it a comprehensively developed person, and not a cog performing their professional function, that made it possible to form the necessary creative and collegial qualities to a greater extent than modern approaches to education.
    And about economics, alas, it's completely sad to read, because the author misses a lot of everything that does not lie on the surface
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 11 January 2022 19: 30
      +3
      A person does not know what public consciousness is. And how it is formed and the fact that it is a very inertial thing. He does not know anything at all, but he has an opinion. In principle, this is pretty good if there is a certain amount of self-criticism and adequacy. But there it looks like it's really bad.
    2. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 19: 40
      -7
      when they tried to make a fully developed person

      What can I say - they strove but did not strive. What comprehensive development can we talk about when there was no political pluralism, there was persecution of religion, many views on completely utilitarian issues were viewed through the prism of Marxism-Leninism, a number of scientific and cultural trends in the West were previously rejected as "decadent", and people who tried to develop them Or was it just to conduct a philosophical and artistic search in the USSR, imprisoned, tried, defamed and restricted? Very cool it contributes to development! What comprehensive development are we talking about in the end, when there was not even a hint of alternative coverage of world history, sociology, current world events? When were people ostracized for "servility to the West" and limited their ability to study Western experience, even within the framework of professional activity or research? You are now pouring in some kind of mossy Soviet slogans, but there is no essence behind them.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 January 2022 20: 16
        +6
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        What can I say - they strove but did not strive. What kind of comprehensive development can we talk about when political pluralism did not exist?

        laughing good
        This phrase - you just need to write it down in the memorial :)))) Dear man, did you come to us from the 90s by a time machine? :)))
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        You are now pouring in some kind of mossy Soviet slogans, but there is no essence behind them.

        Just the opposite. It is you who are now pouring kitchen slogans from the era of late socialist realism.
        "How can he be a fully developed leader if he is forbidden to pray in the church !!!"
        So, in order for there to be formation
        creative, collegial, and often individual qualities that contribute to the release of specialists for larger and more complex tasks than the bottom of production.

        neither political pluralism nor philosophical and artistic search is needed. For this, all you need is training to work in the COLLECTIVE, which was the norm in the USSR, the systematic thinking that was built by the Soviet education system and basic training of a wide profile, which allows you to understand not only your narrow specialization, but also related areas, even if only superficially ...
        Roughly speaking, creativity is the ability to look at a thing from an unusual angle, this ability in production is much more often and better manifested in people who understand how the system as a whole works, and not in those who are professional in only one function.
        1. your1970
          your1970 11 January 2022 21: 09
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          For this, all you need is training to work in a COLLECTIVE, which was the norm in the USSR,

          "And now forget everything that you were taught at the institute and listen here!"
    3. at84432384
      at84432384 11 January 2022 20: 03
      +2
      It makes no sense to argue with this "economist". He is clearly from the same nest as Gavrila Popov, Chubais, Yegorushka Gaidar.
    4. ABC-schutze
      ABC-schutze 13 January 2022 14: 42
      +2
      In a Soviet district clinic, a Soviet citizen received a number at the registry. Then I went to the doctor ... ANY citizen, I emphasize. And not just having "health insurance" ...

      And in today's "market" medicine, he first "pulls a wallet out of his pocket" at the registry. Then, with a "paid check" he goes to the doctor for an appointment ...

      I would like to hope that the author will be able to figure out in which of the two cases the health care service is free for a citizen, and in which it is not ...
  9. Amateur
    Amateur 11 January 2022 18: 38
    +17
    What's this? A graphomaniac with claims or another attempt to defraud the USSR?
    Wait a bit. Soon we, citizens of the USSR, will die out due to our age. Then it will be possible to "powder the brains" of our grandchildren, if we, while alive, do not explain to them how a socially oriented state differs from a capitalist one.
  10. acetophenone
    acetophenone 11 January 2022 18: 44
    +14
    We laugh at the Ukrainians, who in 2014 dreamed that they were about to heal like in France. At the same time, it seemed to us (then!) That we were about to live like in the USA. Like them, we were cheated by cunning peppers. Well ... you have to pay for science. And not cheap ... As my grandmother used to say in such cases:
    - Fools and beat in the church.
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 11 January 2022 19: 02
      0
      Fatherland is an altar. And they beat fools in the altar.
      L. Shebarshin.
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 11 January 2022 19: 24
      0
      Quote: acetophenon
      Well ... you have to pay for science.

      science is when you make the right choice laughing Sometimes they say - payment for stupidity, it seems to me more out of place
  11. impostor
    impostor 11 January 2022 18: 44
    +23
    All calculations about the advantages of paid are broken into one insurmountable obstacle - the catastrophically low incomes of the majority. In the USSR, there were low incomes, but they tried to compensate for them with a broad social system. Under capitalism, the incomes of the overwhelming majority of those who did not fit in remained extremely low, while the social sector is slowly but inexorably undergoing demolition.
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 11 January 2022 19: 05
      +5
      Quote: impostor
      catastrophically low incomes of the majority.

      Everyone lived the same way, it was normal to live on 120 rubles. no one was starving, no drug addict ... and there was simply no entertainment or luxury.
      1. impostor
        impostor 11 January 2022 19: 30
        +8

        Everyone lived the same way, it was normal to live on 120 rubles. nobody was starving
        We lived and were happy. And kind to each other. But such is the bestial nature of Darwin. It's not about the specific characters who became the golden billion, it's about everyone, without exception. Communism was not born out of the will of individual subjects. The basis of communism was not born - a man of a new formation.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 11 January 2022 19: 47
          +3
          Quote: impostor
          The basis of communism was not born - a man of a new formation.

          the basis of communism? Sorry, I disagree with you. It was not a person who was not born, but abandoned that very educational work from which it was sour at heart. Remember the political information? Lenin's room at school?
          And what about the products of the late USSR? Remember "Tourist's Breakfast" fishy? I occupied almost all the shelves, Sausages, if you're lucky, and so forever there was only liver ... On the other hand, there is less liver in the carcass than meat, so I think our leaders filled the party treasury by trading our meat with "developing countries"
          I think that the Ideologists have not coped with the task of educating a person. They did not develop Marxism Leninism, they made a dogma out of it. Socialism or Communism is a developed modified herd instinct of a person. The authorities had to understand that instincts are activated under certain conditions, and it was necessary to create these conditions !!!
          1. impostor
            impostor 11 January 2022 20: 00
            +6
            He loved the tourist's breakfast, there were potatoes in the pot and three cans, even fish ones, and a glass of port ... mmm, I remember! Only in addition to the tourist's breakfast there was BAM, Leninsk, "Lira", the Warsaw Pact, Cuba (the issue of expansion) and much more. But there was no ruble-Uspensky ...
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 11 January 2022 20: 04
              0
              Quote: impostor
              Only in addition to the tourist's breakfast there was BAM, Leninsk, "Lira", the Warsaw Pact, Cuba (the issue of expansion) and much more. But there was no ruble-Uspensky ...

              Yes, there were great things! frankly speaking, the recognition of the personality cult is a shock for me! I think this is the beginning of the end of the USSR.
              1. impostor
                impostor 11 January 2022 20: 10
                +1
                The end came from the head (the period, I think, you know yourself), special distribution, the cult of the (effective) chief, the quintessence of which we observe, and now the church has merged in ecstasy with the state apparatus and broadcasts - there are no identical blades of grass in the meadow, for some reason shyly silent about the fact that in the meadow there should be one soil for everyone, the moisture is the same and the sun is also the same ...
              2. Knell wardenheart
                12 January 2022 00: 23
                +1
                Quote: aybolyt678
                Yes, there were great things! frankly speaking, the recognition of the personality cult is a shock for me! I think this is the beginning of the end of the USSR

                As for me, the beginning of the end in the USSR began earlier than the "collapse of the cult" at the 20th Congress (although, in principle, any "undermining" to any system did not add vitality or authority). The choice of a "tough" form of ideology, specifically its confrontational presentation, inflicted very strong damage on the USSR as a state. I see it this way, if I can sign it! "Soft" ideology tries to guide people, to draw an attractive concept and image for them, tries to win their sympathy and interest PREVIOUSLY through the implementation of its creative component. Other tools are used more delicately, as "special means", but not routine ones. In contrast to it, the "tough" ideology FORCES, harnesses a person, forcing him literally in the right direction. There is practically no need to develop intellectual management for it - if a person is hit on the head for a long time, he either dies or learns what needs to be done (or what not) - this is the main mantra of the "Tough" ideology. Tough ideology implies Confrontation versus Attraction. In my opinion, we were very coolly spoiled not so much by the ideology itself, but by the fact that we had not yet established life in our country and began to shout about how we would come and put the old world on its blades. And this is against the backdrop of a bloody Civil War, terror, the assassination of the king and mass expropriation. This did not add points to us, but we made problems - and these problems became a huge hemorrhoid for the USSR as a state. They did not believe us, they were eager to trade with us, they were eager to invest in us - we with all our huge resources turned out to be ISOLATED for the most part from the circulation of ideas, funds, technologies. As a result, we had to breed ersatz and drive our citizens to a much greater extent than we could have. From this error, in my opinion, the ears of further grow. We could calmly saw down a completely effective model inside the country (somewhat reminiscent of the Chinese version of socialism, but this is a VERY approximate comparison) without losing a lot of lives, without breaking part of the culture, not polarizing the population in this way, and so on and so forth. In principle, we had time, even in spite of everything, to come to this. But we chose a different path - and the NEP ended badly. And then it goes. And as a result, we get into this terribly unfavorable antagonism, contributing to the involvement of Europe in the American project and the growth of our own wasteful for internal development. Maybe someday I'll write about it. Although it doesn't bother me at all to waste time on the past - I'm much more interested in the future.
                1. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 12 January 2022 07: 42
                  +2
                  thanks for the detailed nice answer drinks ++
                  one "but" - when I was appointed head of the service, 36 people were subordinate. And suddenly what seemed to be a collective from the outside, in fact turned out to be a serpentarium ...............
                  taking into account Stalin's efficiency, I am sure that in his place he did the maximum possible during his term of office.
                  PS: the future is the result of the past
                  1. Knell wardenheart
                    12 January 2022 12: 17
                    +3
                    Stalin cannot be envied at any stage of his reign, yes. The old Bolsheviks were still a company, the inheritance was inherited in that state. Over the years, the occupational deformation under such a load also increased. I don't want to praise Stalin, to scold him strongly is unfair because the man did a lot and he died a long time ago. In my opinion, there can be no compromise in the perception of this person, in principle, and he probably is not needed. It's just that society itself is trying to move away from what we call "Stalin's methods" over time, which means that it is probably worth analyzing them, but I doubt that they should be used.
                2. impostor
                  impostor 13 January 2022 18: 53
                  0
                  Most likely from the post-war 20th, when the best gave their lives, and the scum took control positions
            2. The comment was deleted.
      2. tatra
        tatra 11 January 2022 19: 41
        -1
        Just don't need anti-Soviet myths about "leveling", under which the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people redistributed the incomes of the country and the people in their favor after they seized the USSR.
        In the USSR, salaries were from 70 to a thousand rubles and more, plus bonuses, 13 salaries.
        And the official median salary in 1991 was 175-200 rubles, which is about 40 thousand today. And in the USSR, everyone knew that with every decade, salaries and pensions increased with practically zero inflation.
        It is with the enemies of the communists that the Russian people have only been getting poorer for the eighth year, and will continue to grow poorer, and they will get richer and will get richer at the expense of Russia and the Russian people.
        1. ViacheslavS
          ViacheslavS 11 January 2022 21: 20
          -1
          And in the USSR, everyone knew that with every decade, salaries and pensions increased with practically zero inflation.


          Only that the workers in Novocherkassk did not appreciate the zero inflation, and the good Soviet authorities did not understand their indignation and, according to the good communist tradition, simply shot the disaffected as enemies of the communists.
      3. Knell wardenheart
        11 January 2022 19: 47
        -6
        There are pluses and minuses in the same life. The disadvantage of the same Soviet life was that a person who even accumulated (by work, intellect) a lot of money could not effectively and DIRECTLY use this money to increase his own comfort. But in fact, the desire of the USSR to create a "middle class" meant that sooner or later society would come out to the mass of those who wanted it. At the moment when this happened, and further, the system continued to live for itself as if nothing had happened, "according to the precepts of Ilyich" - they did not see the problem, and the USSR was ruined, INCLUDED, by the general ignorance of human needs.
      4. Vadim237
        Vadim237 11 January 2022 20: 01
        -9
        Then the presence of a person's apartment, a car and a summer residence were an indicator of luxury, but now it is a necessary minimum, but in no way an indicator of luxury. And not everyone lived on 120 - 150 - someone had 400 and 600 and 800 and even 1200 salaries, but such people were 0.5-1% of the total population maximum.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 11 January 2022 20: 08
          +5
          Quote: Vadim237
          but not an indicator of luxury.

          Does she need this luxury? what is the development of the amount of a person's competencies or a luxury consumed? the number of books or buttons read in a foreign car?
          1. Knell wardenheart
            12 January 2022 00: 31
            +4
            I believe that there are mathematically calculated boundaries, within which the Comfort and Sufficiency of the individual is a justified goal of the development of the whole society. Up to these boundaries of what is available (for a specific person), he will experience a certain deficiency that impedes his development and activity. Above these boundaries, he will have a little-used parasitic surplus, like obesity on the body, which has a quite expressive border separating healthy from unhealthy obesity. Someone likes asceticism, someone needs space. It is rather curious, by the way, to think about what is the border of the Measure at the top and at the bottom. In my opinion, striving for these parameters at least "in the center" is the best possible idea for society)
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 12 January 2022 08: 46
              +3
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              Top and bottom measures

              zero to mid-infinity = infinity laughing
              the mathematical approach is wrong. I propose another model based on hierarchical principles. You know that one of the basic human instincts is the instinct of domination? Dominance has certain symbols - for the military, this is the size and number of stars on shoulder straps, in Soviet times it was the presence of jeans and Adidas ... high rungs of the hierarchical ladder. Today the goal of luxury and entertainment, the world's GDP is 90% of them ...
              I think if Soviet ideologists thought at least a little, they would not give pioneer ties to every student of the C grade, a tie would have to be earned .. And to form a goal in the public consciousness ... so that when the child's question is "dad and what is communism" dad could easy to answer so that the child has a dream. This should be done by scientists and not by amateurs like us.
              1. Knell wardenheart
                12 January 2022 12: 22
                +2
                I agree that a certain branched paraphernalia of asceticism was not enough. But this is if we are thinking about how we can make socialism work. This, in my opinion, is not entirely correct formulation of the question! The question should be posed as follows - how can we create a system that is elegant, professional, socially oriented and at the same time effective?
                1. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 12 January 2022 14: 14
                  +1
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  I agree that a certain branched paraphernalia of asceticism was not enough. But this is if we are thinking about how we can make socialism work. This, in my opinion, is not entirely correct formulation of the question! The question should be posed as follows - how can we create a system that is elegant, professional, socially oriented and at the same time effective?

                  Since your system is socially oriented, it means some kind of socialism wink What is the difference - public ownership of the means of production or a progressive tax on luxury? in the end, these are simply ways of redistributing material goods in the interests of society.
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 12 January 2022 22: 29
            -3
            Good books cost a lot, everything good and high-quality ones cost a lot, if you want to have all this as an incentive, earn more and do your own business. Everyone strives to improve their lives, this was and will always be.
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 13 January 2022 08: 53
              +1
              Quote: Vadim237
              Good books cost a lot, everything good and quality is expensive, if you want to have all this as an incentive, earn more, start your own business.

              Why can't a good cause be public? what can a loner do? he works for several years, then hires workers, then fights with competitors ... and if this is a socialist planned project? If it is properly planned, then the same thing, the same people work, without fear of becoming bankrupt. Problems were hushed up in late Socialism, so errors multiplied.
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 11 January 2022 20: 17
          +4
          Quote: Vadim237
          Then the presence of a person's apartment, a car and a summer residence were an indicator of luxury, but now it is a necessary minimum, but in no way an indicator of luxury.

          There is no car or dacha. I'm entering Putin's middle class. By the way, for some reason this necessary minimum is not spelled out in the consumer basket, like pants with a hat.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 12 January 2022 22: 34
            -4
            Well, if you live in Putin's middle class - only in what range does it seem to start and end with 17000 from 500000. And I really do not believe that in all your life you have not got your own apartments, cars and summer cottages - and the same pants with a hat.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 12 January 2022 23: 04
              +2
              Quote: Vadim237
              Well, if you live in Putin's middle class - only in what range does it seem to start and end with 17000 from 500000. And I really do not believe that in all your life you have not got your own apartments, cars and summer cottages - and the same pants with a hat.

              I have pants with a hat, don't worry.
    2. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 19: 44
      -2
      The author did not draw conclusions about the advantage of paid - progress is not "heads / tails", progress implies greater flexibility in the approach. I point out the serious disadvantages of the free, existing system. Some of these disadvantages could be effectively eliminated by involving the free money supply that the population had. But no one sweated (almost) on this topic - as a result, people had a significant mass of money in their hands that they simply had NOTHING to spend, and there were problems that could be solved with their help - but this situation existed for decades as if the top did not see the very problem at close range.
      1. impostor
        impostor 11 January 2022 19: 52
        +12
        The Soviet state gave an unprecedented impetus to the Western trade union movement. The workers' rights that once appeared in the West were due to, and not in spite of, advice. Expansion was a necessary means of survival for the social. formations, capital was forced to yield to this pressure. I cannot vouch that the Scandinavian standard has a long half-life, the dismantling of the social sphere will obviously become more and more tangible on a planetary scale.
        1. Knell wardenheart
          11 January 2022 20: 24
          -1
          O YES ! Western workers had to kiss the feet of the USSR, because they turned out to be one of the main beneficiaries of the Cold War. Not only were they piled up with jobs and their salaries were raised, but they also began to blow dust off them regularly. Here I absolutely agree with you. True, the piece of humor is that the USSR has long been gone, and Western workers still live quite for themselves. Perhaps this is a good example of the fact that you need to apply some super-efforts and cling to a high standard - and then the system itself will somehow find ways. In this regard, Western trade unions and public policy set a lot of positive dynamics, pushing the authorities towards beneficial changes. All these mechanisms must be used in the construction of a stable and evolutionarily developing society, regardless of sympathy for any system. What is effective is good, what is ineffective is bad.
          1. impostor
            impostor 11 January 2022 20: 36
            +7
            Effectively - to raise the economy in five years after the worst war in history. And the fact that the USSR no longer exists is not a piece of humor, it is a punishment for betraying ideals.
            1. Knell wardenheart
              11 January 2022 20: 40
              -1
              Well, capitalism also rose quite well after the wars. Take France after BB1, Germany after BB2, Japan after BB2, Italy after BB2. They rose much less raping their own population. So everything is not so simple here, although I put industrialization in the first place in the list of our successes in my last article.
              1. impostor
                impostor 11 January 2022 20: 45
                +4
                In a philosophical sense, idealists and materialists will never come to the same denominator. It is critically necessary that in any scenario the state fulfills its main function - limiting a number of degrees of freedom of an individual solely for the sake of survival (read - well-being) of the majority. And not the other way around.
                1. Knell wardenheart
                  11 January 2022 21: 03
                  +1
                  Well, at one time the West groped for the "golden key" of how to expand the freedom of the individual with the benefit of the state. It was not an ideal, even somewhat vicious system - a consumer society, the cult of liberalism, etc. But if we bury ourselves in the history of Western scientific and technical successes, in the history of multi-billion dollar franchises and business empires, it will be clear that the West, nevertheless, managed to channel human Thirst for the benefit of the majority, and the USSR, alas, sent this Thirst to swing system, preventing it from being realized. I see it this way. As in physics, small forces play a very important role. Unfortunately, we (judging by what I am observing now) did not draw the proper conclusions from this, and this tension is accumulating again. In the West, after a certain successful period, they made another mistake - they began to FORCE this Thirst from people in order to further stimulate the economy. Both of these practices are flawed, where a certain golden mean, a profitable compromise, can only be groped by careful analysis. What I try to do to the best of my modest strength.
                  1. impostor
                    impostor 11 January 2022 21: 05
                    +1
                    I would agree with you (about the success of the West), if not for one circumstance - at whose expense? Let the dollar be provided with full-fledged gold, then we will continue hi
                    1. Knell wardenheart
                      11 January 2022 21: 15
                      +2
                      Yes to the devil dollar, I am for the analysis, disassembly, isolation, reassembly "for us" - the West, the USSR, Japan, China, South Korea, the Scandinavian countries - all these are model objects, the experience of which lies like this very gold you mentioned, and waiting for it to be shoveled and arranged here with us their "Myoiji restoration".
                      1. impostor
                        impostor 11 January 2022 21: 20
                        0
                        Yes to the devil dollar

                        Fear the Capitoline God! You will be cemented in a barrel and sent to the bottom of the Hudson!
                  2. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 12 January 2022 11: 45
                    +1
                    it will be clear that the West has nevertheless managed to channel human Thirst for the benefit of the majority

                    What has the "perverse system" done good for the majority?
                    1. Knell wardenheart
                      12 January 2022 12: 34
                      +1
                      For example, I created an environment in which a person who has a desire to create has access to the widest range of tools for this and is inside a system that does not interfere with this (for the most part). I wanted to create a rocket? Stir up the production of microchips in the garage? I wanted to do the design of weapons or abstract art or embroider carpets with beads - and if I have money (or a business model) I have a much better chance of doing this in the West than in the USSR.
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 12 January 2022 12: 48
                        0
                        You wrote where it is easier to monetize anything. The truth is very abstract. But I have not yet seen the answer to my question - and for the majority of people, what is the blessing?
                      2. Knell wardenheart
                        12 January 2022 13: 22
                        +2
                        It is a blessing in the release of vapors)) Whoever has a desire to create, they do without any special obstacles, there is a desire to buy in excess or just buy, they buy, there is a desire to engage in some kind of "social garbage" - they do it freely, ecology - yes to health. The social structure relieves unnecessary pressure, the state does not spend resources on compensating for it, considerable money is circulating in the economy because people willingly spend it. A lot of pluses.
                      3. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 12 January 2022 16: 21
                        0
                        It reminds me of the reasoning of children about how good it is when there are no restrictions. And how parents do not understand them with their stupid "no". Why is the ability to create in one of the development models limited in comparison with 2 development models? Is it because self-realization through creativity has been equated with the creation of the imposed unnecessary?
                        Why should the “desire to buy beyond measure” or “social bullshit”, that is, the irrational manifestations of a creature that is considered reasonable, the crown of creation, should be considered a norm, and not a deviation? Why is venting a blessing for the majority? The "descent" described by you, in the form you described, is a blessing for the minority - the state apparatus, merged with the "capital holders". Moreover, there is a pupation of the problem of effective development within the framework of the country, although such a biological species as man is widespread throughout the planet.
                      4. Knell wardenheart
                        12 January 2022 16: 25
                        +2
                        Well, I am analyzing this not in the context of the deep theory of Marxism-Leninism, but in comparison with the fact that we all ended convulsively in 1991 and the West somehow still lives. This at least demonstrates some of the complex benefits of his system. Well, if not, it indicates the instability of our hypothetical perfection.
                      5. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 12 January 2022 17: 04
                        0
                        This at least demonstrates some of the complex benefits of his system. Well, if not, it indicates the instability of our hypothetical perfection.


                        And I see it this way. Swamp. It can be very beautiful, bright, with flowers and butterflies. But at the same time, poison the person living on it with your fumes. And it doesn't matter if you don't understand this or consciously decide to stay in the swamp anyway, because the body still can withstand, and it's easier to put up with the inevitable when the eye is pleased with the juicy grass-murava. The main thing is to look in the direction where it grows and not to look in the opposite direction, where decaying plants are visible. You can decide to get out of it. But this is not easy, moreover, it is most likely dangerous. There is a group of people in this swamp. And one of them understands that staying in the swamp is a dead-end path with a predictable course of events. But he cannot persuade the others. Then he decides to set an example - and he does not succeed, he could not, he drowned halfway. And because he did not succeed, the rest decide that getting out of the swamp is worse than staying in it.
                      6. Knell wardenheart
                        12 January 2022 17: 20
                        +2
                        Here I agree with you, and you gave a good example. More effective does not mean that it is better or qualitatively better. This is an indicator that PROVED to be more resilient and productive IN THESE conditions than EVERYTHING ELSE in aggregate. Can you do better? Can. If you work on this head. And then work with your hands and your head, and redo it where there is objectively no cake - without calling the pits "uneven terrain structure". We do not need a pure Western model or a pure Western example - but we need to LEARN from them, and we will have to do it.
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 11 January 2022 21: 06
                +1
                Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                They rose much less raping their own population.

                The bloody NKVD raped my grandfather, exiled him after captivity, punishment and injury to a mine in the Moscow region, where he received a very good salary, and retired at 120 rubles at the age of 50, in the 70th.
          2. Liam
            Liam 11 January 2022 22: 21
            -2
            Quote: Knell Wardenheart
            O YES ! Western workers had to kiss the feet of the USSR, because they turned out to be one of the main beneficiaries of the Cold War.

            You are one of those authors who subvert some myths and promote others ...
            The Western worker lived orders of magnitude better than the Soviet in any year of the 75 Soviet power. As well as before and after. The merit in this existence of the USSR is not even zero.
            1. Knell wardenheart
              11 January 2022 23: 11
              +3
              Competition with the communists for the hearts and minds of the working class encouraged capitalists to meet their needs and this helped transform what the Western worker of the early 80th century was to what he became in the early 1917s. About "lived better" - you have to understand WHEN you lived better. In 20, if they lived better, it was not much better. During the Great Depression, too. If we take German workers from some XNUMXs, maybe they lived worse. We would live cool - I don’t think there would be so many strikes, which were then so reliably dispersed in the same Great Britain, for the amusement of the Soviet press. A worker in the Western capitalist society is gradually evolving into a highly paid specialist - and partly for this they are ultimately forced to transfer production to Asia, these specialists have become too gluttonous.
              1. Liam
                Liam 11 January 2022 23: 38
                -2
                Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                Competition with communists for the hearts and minds of the working class encouraged the capitalists

                This is nothing more than a common Runet urban legend.
                The realities of the Soviet standard of living have always been known in the West.

                Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                We would live cool - I don’t think there would be so many strikes

                )))
                This is a typical delusion of a person who did not live in the West and does not understand their realities. To simplify, the misconception is that a person who lives in Russia and receives, say, 300 euros of salary does not understand that a person who receives 2000 euros of salary is on strike because he wants 2.500, because a person always wants more.
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 12 January 2022 22: 36
              -3
              No, he's just one of those authors of dreamers who describe parallel worlds.
  12. Third district
    Third district 11 January 2022 18: 49
    +12
    In this article, of course, the author wrote a lot of reasonable things. The message of the author is clear where the funds were taken from in the state. And why is this impossible now .. The answer will be simple - at present, about 60% of Russia's welfare is in the hands of 0,1% of the population.
    1. tatra
      tatra 11 January 2022 19: 44
      0
      You have to be completely idiots not to understand where the money came from in the USSR for large-scale development, for the maintenance of the country, and for the great social benefits of the people.
      And because the money that, after the capture of the USSR by the enemies of the communists, went into their bottomless pockets, in the USSR was spent on the country and the people.
      Therefore, the benefactor of the Russian enemies of the communists, Putin said that socialism for the Russian Federation is too expensive.
    2. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 19: 51
      +1
      The funny thing is that funds for this could be found and the system itself could be made more flexible. But for this, the economy had to be dealt with by professionals and not by the moss-covered dogmatists who had to take it out and put it to make a Cheburashka out of the rail. While our cap. competitors extracted super-profits in foreign markets, which they spent on creating a consumer society and science, we spent our extra profits on tanks and Arabs, in addition to the fact that super-profits themselves were extremely disregarding. Socialism is certainly cool and cool, but we really missed the hellish bablos for decades, this bablos could have flowed into medicine, science and education - but the devil knows where.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 January 2022 20: 20
      -4
      "The answer will be simple - at present, about 60% of Russia's wealth is in the hands of 0,1% of the population." How is this welfare measured - if in money then I grieve for all billionaires and millionaires real money in their pockets maximum 10% of the total fortune is the annual net profit deposits in banks shares everything else is the estimated market value of movable and immovable property factory factory plots of land machines airplanes, machine tools, steamships, as well as third-party investments, but in fact they are not property of investors who need profit from the actions of the owner of the offices in which they invested - Forbes evaluates all of the above, adds up and gives out the billionaire's overall fortune for a year.
  13. ee2100
    ee2100 11 January 2022 18: 50
    +19
    The article is specific and not at all. Has the author revealed the secret that there is nothing free? So maybe it was a secret for him! The article level is clearly not for this resource.
    An overt hatred for the Soviet people creeps through "they are clamoring in mines, factories, etc." he continued waving the hammer and sickle "(c) the author may not have lived under the USSR, but his ancestors lived unambiguously. The author spat fatally in their direction.
    Another VOSh adept.
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 11 January 2022 19: 06
      +3
      After your words, I would close the comments. (They have experience here) hi good
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 11 January 2022 19: 55
        +2
        Thanks! Not expected drinks
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 January 2022 20: 22
      .
      There is nothing superficial in it, everything is in fact - but, judging by everything, it is difficult for you to accept.
  14. Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 11 January 2022 18: 56
    -9
    Nice and smart article. Everything is logical and disassembled, and is true for the entire former socialist space.

    PS The author is finished. Will cut down the forest in Siberia in a few years.
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 11 January 2022 19: 15
      +4
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      Nice and smart article.

      If you do not think, do not read statistics, do not be interested in either history or economics. Well, how does it happen with the average Bulgarian humanist with a bright, non-possessive face.
      1. Keyser soze
        Keyser soze 11 January 2022 21: 00
        -6
        Well, how does it happen with the average Bulgarian humanist with a bright, non-possessive face.

        Wooh, thanks for the new word! I rummaged through dictionaries and found semantics. "not good" I mean. Innovation, but check out the irony.

        If you do not think, do not read statistics, do not be interested in either history or economics.

        Well, you see, in economics I have MS, and I studied history and sociology thoroughly in the topic of theology. Socialism has already seen with its own eyes an adult.
        But I am Bulgarian and communist ideas are foreign to me. I read Capital Marx and some of Lenin. But I am a right-wing and conservative person who knows that communism is an idealistic evil, and socialism only succeeded in Scandinavia. So for me, the author's article is smart and true. hi
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 11 January 2022 21: 09
          +1
          I'm sorry, but you are wrong. And this is all the more offensive that you are not a stupid person and it looks like a good person on the whole. Therefore, perhaps I would advise you to reread Lenin and Marx again. And try to correlate with what is happening on the planet now. Perhaps your views will change. As it happened to me once.
          1. Keyser soze
            Keyser soze 11 January 2022 22: 04
            +3
            I'm sorry, but you are wrong. And this is all the more offensive that you are not a stupid person and it looks like a good person on the whole.


            Thank you :) But why, we just have different views. This does not make us opponents. I understand socialists in general, but I think they are wrong. Here's an example - in the USSR and in socialism in general, the power withdrew more of what it earned in order to redistribute it, more rationally, right? And then give away buns - free education, medicine, and so on. So, I don’t want someone to take decisions for me and distribute my money. No, I am not an egoist and I agree to give about 10% of my earnings to people in trouble, but I don’t agree that the communist old men from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or the BKP rule me. By the way, even now our education is free and medicine is almost free. Urgent assistance 100% and a monthly installment of 12 euros. A pack of cigarettes costs 2,5 euros. For me, the Scandinavian taxation system is much more welcoming than the socialist one. Progressive rate for the rich and near-zero corruption. This is socialism, under the brand name of capitalism. This is what I like and it exists.
            Another is that your free housing system is unfamiliar and strange to us. I still watch reports when the tenants are waiting for the state to fix their housing and do not understand anything. We own about 92% of the population and we have always bought our housing and it became 100% ours. And under socialism. So this topic with free housing is generally incomprehensible to us.
            And try to correlate with what is happening on the planet now.

            Yes, all the rules on the planet. Everything as usual. I wandered all over Europe - people live normally and do not complain. This is capitalism in our country and in your country, former communists and KGBists began to build and robbed everything. A communist cannot work and benefit society. He always steals from power and from society. And this is what I have seen in the last 30 years. And in normal countries, they hang in a slammer or in the backyard of history.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 12 January 2022 11: 50
              +1
              A communist cannot work and benefit society. He always steals from power and from society.

              I wonder if you can somehow substantiate your deep thought?
              1. Keyser soze
                Keyser soze 12 January 2022 19: 33
                +2
                I wonder if you can somehow substantiate your deep thought?

                This is as easy as a simple colleague - for the last 30 years I have seen it with my own eyes in Bulgaria:

                - 80% of all politicians grew out of the party nomenclature of the BKP (Bulgarian Communist Party)
                - all enterprises, factories, concessions, monopolies were distributed to former party members or former leaders of our KGB. They robbed, in our dashing nineties, everything that was not nailed down, then they began to take out the nails.
                - all big business in the country was in their hands and was distinguished by non-payment of salaries, tax evasion, illegal concessions and monopolies. Then all the factories went bankrupt in their hands. Certainly.
                - all the children of the former communists and KGBists are attached to power.
                Already in recent years, our government began to cleanse itself of these individuals and the newcomer to change several parties, so that in the end society would come into complete intolerance to these cadres from past epochs.
                Is that enough for you? As they say, an example from life .... unfortunately. When facts speak, even the gods are silent. Here are the bare facts. Moses led the Jews for forty years in the desert, so that all who were slaves in Egypt died out. Former slaves cannot build the Promised Land. Even himself.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 13 January 2022 08: 53
                  +3
                  Why do you call communists those who are not communists? Ah, there is a word in the name of the party, and they are its members ... Well, then all the men of the party "For Women of Russia" and "Women's Dialogue" are women, not men. Here is your "logic". I'm not talking about the fact that the categories you describe are only a part of those people who have ever been related to the communist parties of different countries.
                  1. Keyser soze
                    Keyser soze 13 January 2022 09: 05
                    +1
                    Ah, there is a word in the name of the party, and they are its members ...


                    I do not understand you. Really. The communists / KGB members failed with socialism - they could not get into it, as they could in Scandinavia. Then they could not enter capitalism and rebuilt neo-feudalism and theft. And you come out with the thesis that they say it’s not the right communists, but I believe that the right ones will do everything, let’s have another revolution and build this nonsense again. So? And what guarantees you that the children will not turn out to be thieves? Another 100 years of trials? No thanks. Until 1944, our economy was flying. Now it is also going well and for the first time we have a government of young and smart guys who have done business without a state. The well-being of the population is growing. You build communism for yourself there, and we can manage without you. But after all, everyone interferes with you - either freeloaders, or the State Department, so everything will be better. hi
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 13 January 2022 09: 16
                      +1
                      Not this way. You start attributing things to me that cannot be taken out of what I wrote after you were asked a completely normal question - "I wonder if you can somehow substantiate your deep thought?":
                      A communist cannot work and benefit society. He always steals from power and from society.

                      Naturally, this crazy statement cannot be confirmed. But, of course, admitting this is beyond your strength. Therefore, it is easier to start ascribe to the interlocutor do not understand what.
                      1. Keyser soze
                        Keyser soze 13 January 2022 09: 20
                        +1
                        Naturally, this crazy statement cannot be confirmed.


                        Colleague, I ascribe nothing to you. I told you the facts about the communists / KGB. They failed everywhere and stole everything they could. If this doesn’t convince you, then I don’t know what arguments and facts you need.
                      2. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 13 January 2022 09: 31
                        +1
                        I don't attribute anything to you.

                        Yes?
                        you come out with the thesis that they say it’s not the right communists, but I believe that the right ones will do everything, let’s have another revolution and build this nonsense again.

                        But after all, everyone interferes with you - either parasites, or the State Department

                        PS It's not enough for something to be a "fact". Because adding the construction-statement from the "facts", it is necessary that the construction-statement be built without logical errors. Otherwise, it is incorrect, despite the correct components.
                        PPS It would be interesting to discuss the "flight" of the Bulgarian economy until 1944 separately. But I foresee the pointlessness of this lesson. All the best. I am very glad that everything is fine in Bulgaria. I am always sincerely happy when things work out for the better for people.
            2. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 14 January 2022 00: 13
              +1
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              But why, we just have different views. This does not make us enemies.

              Exactly until the moment when the contradictions become aggravated.

              Quote: Keyser Soze
              I understand socialists in general, but I think they are wrong.

              It depends on who is considered a socialist, what is meant by socialism, and depending on what you consider erroneous from their views.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              Here's an example - in the USSR and in socialism in general, the state seized more of what was earned in order to redistribute it, more smoothly, right?

              Let's say. smile
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              So, I do not want someone to take decisions for me and distribute my money.

              Just the same, under socialism, you will be able to influence the spending of funds as much as possible by participating in government. Under capitalism everything is decided by the bourgeoisie, and mainly by the big ones. So this illusion of freedom that arises among individual petty bourgeois, it is exactly as long as the interests of the petty bourgeois do not begin to intersect with the interests of the big one.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              but I do not agree that the communist old men from the CPSU or the BKP rule me.

              Is Biden right for you? He is not from the CPSU for sure. laughing
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              For me, the Scandinavian taxation system is much more fluid than the socialist one.

              This is because you do not understand what socialism is. You don’t understand well that those shortcomings that existed in the socialist countries are essentially a relic of the capitalist and even often feudal and slave-owning formations.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              Another - your free housing system is unfamiliar and strange for us.

              Strictly speaking, it is not free.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              I watch reports even now, when residents are waiting for the state to fix their housing and I don’t understand anything.

              What now goes to the state in the form of taxes is all the result of the work of the country's citizens, so the state is obliged, both here and here, to provide people with housing. It if absolutely on fingers to explain.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              Here is socialism, under the brand name of capitalism.

              This is never socialism. Although not as wild capitalism as we have in Russia. But in general, there is nothing good in it either. This is the same capitalism with all its inherent flaws only slightly smoothed out.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              Yes, all the norms on the planet.

              No, it's not the norm. And the state of the planet is not determined by the life of Europe alone. Although even there now not everything is so safe.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              Former communists and KGB men started building capitalism in our country and in you, and they robbed everything.

              And who robbed the middle class of the same USA? Are they also KGB communists? Read the statistics. There, everything is slowly moving towards further stratification of incomes and compression of the middle class.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              A communist cannot work and benefit society.

              Such as Zyuganov, yes. Because he has one label from a communist.
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              And in normal countries they hang in jail or in the backyard of history.

              You don't understand one simple thing. In capitalist countries, there cannot be corruption. In a system where everything is sold and bought, this is simply impossible. It can take many forms, but by definition it cannot disappear.
              smile
              1. Keyser soze
                Keyser soze 14 January 2022 02: 25
                +1
                Is Biden right for you? He is not from the CPSU for sure.

                Biden? Pfff...
                Name: Kiril Petkov
                Position: Prime Minister of Bulgaria
                Age - 41 years
                Education - Harvard Business School
                Business: Manufacture of probiotics and remedies
                Country of business - Bulgaria
                Sales - US, EU
                Status - millionaire
                Family - married, three children
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 14 January 2022 20: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: Keyser Soze
                  Name: Kiril Petkov
                  Position: Prime Minister of Bulgaria
                  Age - 41 years
                  Education - Harvard Business School
                  Business: Manufacture of probiotics and remedies
                  Country of business - Bulgaria
                  Sales - US, EU
                  Status - millionaire
                  Family - married, three children

                  Well, the fact that he managed to build a happy present for himself is what I understood. But this is not about the happiness of an individual Prime Minister of Bulgaria.
    2. ee2100
      ee2100 11 January 2022 20: 13
      +8
      You wrote: 'Nice and smart article. Everything is logical and disassembled, and is true for the entire former socialist space. "(c) Your main word is" socialist "and what's wrong with that?
      There was a certain system in the USSR and Bulgaria. Yes, people worked well in the enterprise, expressed loyal views and received decent housing.
      I paid 2 ₽ / month for a 3,75-room apartment and that's it! And now people take a mortgage (a loan from a bank) and God forbid he stumbles somewhere or goes to protest and the bank will unilaterally break the contract with him! A person will lose everything for which he has worked for so many years. Is it wrong in Bulgaria? Here everyone is sitting in their holes and quietly cursing the existing government, no matter where.
      Lenin was right, the proletariat has nothing to lose but its chains. And here is an apartment and a car.
      "PS The author is finished. Will cut down the forest in Siberia, in a few years" (c) boldly! And where will the Bulgarians cut down the forest?
      1. Andrey Moskvin
        Andrey Moskvin 11 January 2022 21: 18
        -1
        God willing, also in Siberia. laughing
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 11 January 2022 21: 44
          +1
          This is just for fun! Let the channel through Bulgaria to the Middle Sea be dug.
  15. Siberian-1
    Siberian-1 11 January 2022 18: 59
    -4
    I totally agree. I cannot exactly reproduce the figures given in the newspaper "Arguments and Facts" somewhere in 1988 ... 1989. The article said that the average salary in the USSR was not 150 rubles, but 511. Simply, not giving everything in hand, the state took away for everything that we considered free. I remember exactly the figure "paid" for housing. 23 rubles from each employee per month. Pioneer camps, hospitals, sanatoriums, and so on, and so on and so on .... Let us dwell on this figure. A family of three workers pays 23 * 3 = 69 rubles a month. (This is not counting payment for all types of services, according to receipts) For the year 12 * 69 = 828 rubles. For 10 years, 10 * 828 = 8280 rubles are paid. The apartment is fully paid, but is not owned by the family. In case of relocation, the apartment is simply transferred to housing and communal services. renovated and according to the act. Dot. At the new place of residence, registration begins for the queue, standing and, after some time, receiving a "free" apartment, possibly already paid out many times by previously residing tenants. The medicine. We will not operate with any numbers. How often does each resident of the country go to the hospital? And he pays for it, in the same way as in the case of paying for housing. Monthly. Do you often use sanatoriums? And what about pioneer camps? Etc. I will not prove the accuracy of these numbers. Yes, this is not important, the main thing is to understand the very principle of distribution of what has already been earned, but not paid. Privatization of apartments, fairer than Soviet. At least. you can sell the existing one, and buy THERE. Prices? Well, it also depends on the location, which in my opinion is fair. Equality of prices in the country will turn the capital into ..... And so, let the scoundrels gather there, who stole and sold. And let them there, by virtue of their habits, devour and shit neighbors. I am in the vastness of my vast homeland without them, gathered there, calmer and cleaner.
    1. 75 Sergey
      75 Sergey 11 January 2022 19: 18
      +2
      An unsuccessful example - the end of the 80s, a period of lies, especially the AIF
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 11 January 2022 19: 20
      +4
      Quote: Siberian-1
      I cannot exactly reproduce the figures given in the newspaper "Arguments and Facts" somewhere in 1988 ... 1989.

      in these years, Argumenty i Fakty, a light, a literary newspaper, and so on ... were at the service of the adherents of Perestroika and rebuilt public consciousness, neighboring on the shelves of the press union next to AIDS INFO
    3. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 11 January 2022 19: 22
      +3
      Quote: Siberian-1
      At the new place of residence, registration for the queue begins, standing and after some time receiving a "free" apartment

      my dad was an engineer, the Party from 1972 to 1982 transferred him to different places, we were always given a quarter very quickly, the most was 3 months. I remember 6 crossings.
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 11 January 2022 20: 09
        +3
        My father gave 35 years to the Motherland, an officer, and only when he came out on penny did he receive the so-called. A voucher for an apartment, in the end, even before they collected money to buy and to have their own housing.
      2. dauria
        dauria 12 January 2022 03: 30
        0
        The party from 1972 to 1982 transferred him to different places, we were always given a quarter very quickly, the most was 3 months.

        This is a party !!! wassat Family pilots were sitting without apartments for years. With two families sharing an apartment. As an option Afghan - returned - get an apartment (in line, you are not the only one). The wives were then registered as tied up in these apartments, even if the husband was transferred to another place. And choose - write everyone out and hand them over to the KECh in exchange for a certificate. Or leave your wife as a registered watchman. But then, in a new place, her job will not shine, and you - an apartment.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 12 January 2022 07: 48
          0
          Quote: dauria
          But then, in a new place, her job will not shine, and you - an apartment.

          There were no problems with work in the USSR from the word at all! After school, I got a job as a laborer, they immediately offered me a place in a hostel, I could get on the line for an apartment if I get married. There was a queue at the enterprise - 7 years
    4. Non-fighter
      Non-fighter 11 January 2022 19: 30
      +2
      The medicine. We will not operate with any numbers. How often does each resident of the country go to the hospital? And he pays for it, in the same way as in the case of paying for housing. Monthly.

      This is how ANY health insurance company works. What is compulsory medical insurance, what is voluntary medical insurance.
  16. nikvic46
    nikvic46 11 January 2022 18: 59
    +10
    Everything seems to fit. Only here is a big difference for a person - to move into a new apartment for free, or to pay millions for it. In the USSR there was a fund of emergency housing. In the event of a fire, a person could get housing literally in a week. I understand, a mortgage will help us. But another person does not take a mortgage, but immediately buys several apartments and rents them out. Health care is generally disgraceful. All laboratories have become paid. And the person, without finishing the treatment, hobbles over to himself. And the state hums merrily, "Waddle, waddle, my dear ..." And I'm generally silent about the pandemic. In such a situation, under the Soviets, many would have ended up in Kolyma.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 19: 58
      0
      Thanks for the important detail! In the article I noted that I am personally impressed by the system of free housing and medicine and education. At the same time, the way it was implemented had, in my opinion, disadvantages that led these systems to extinction. Some here are pulling hair on their heads, seeing in this a mockery of something sacred - and this is our problem as a civilization. We rarely and little think about how to IMPROVE WHAT WE HAVE. This distinguishes us for the worse from this very "damned west", which, because it loves to think about it, regularly invents various convenient things that we then buy from it. This is a paradigm of thinking that we SHOULD INCLUDE so that we are preserved as a civilization, and not perish like shell fish. We need to learn how to rake our experience, tear it apart into its constituent elements, throw out everything harmful or useless and reassemble it so that it is ideal for us, so that the economy works like a clock, so that the environment becomes as convenient as possible for a person and so that money flows where this parameter is insufficient.
      1. impostor
        impostor 11 January 2022 20: 29
        +5
        At present, you are often dealing with opponents who received education according to the Makarenko system and were treated according to the Semashko system. This I mean that many still have critical (reflective) thinking (according to Dewey).
        1. Knell wardenheart
          11 January 2022 20: 51
          0
          Quote: impostor
          At present, you are often dealing with opponents who received education according to the Makarenko system and were treated according to the Semashko system. This I mean that many still have critical (reflective) thinking (according to Dewey).

          And you know, this moment explains the terrifying inertia of the current state of affairs. We, like a giant herbivorous dinosaur, still did not understand why everything broke, because it was still soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo We still live in the paradigm of thinking of the Yalta redistribution of the world for the same reason. These are very bad views on things, they do not correspond to the challenges of the times and how the world around us has changed.
          1. impostor
            impostor 11 January 2022 20: 57
            +2
            To be honest, I am a little jarred by the phrase "challenge of the time", as well as by the "clap of gas" (why not stormy gas applause, smoothly flowing into applause?) I humbly ask you to forgive the victim of Soviet education. Not everything was "cool" - there was fairness, but the costs had to be put up, it was not worth it, if we went our own way, all the more not everyone was going to wind up, you probably heard about Caprang Sablin?
            1. Knell wardenheart
              11 January 2022 21: 12
              +2
              it was not worth folding
              - I agree. It was stupid and impractical to break everything, having such a resource and experience in construction and restructuring. But as soon as all this happened, you need to shovel this experience as much as possible without beauty and illusion.
              Of course I have heard this story. Sad, epic, stupid.
              1. impostor
                impostor 11 January 2022 21: 17
                +2
                Sad, epic, stupid

                The question is ideological. I hope you can imagine what a ship commander (read - a military unit) is. To destroy their own career, personal (considerable for those times) well-being for the sake of ideals - how many are capable?
                1. Knell wardenheart
                  11 January 2022 21: 27
                  -1
                  There is a certain fine line, in my opinion, between the feat of self-sacrifice and vain death. I can be wrong on this issue because I try to look at things not through the prism of ideology. In the end, his sacrifice did not lead to anything (or almost nothing) because the system against which he went had damn tight control over people's brains and information flows. At one time, Schmidt became a symbol (deservedly or not), but the time was different, then it did not work out. So it was most likely in vain. Many, very many people sincerely loved the Union, but that there, many at Stalin's funeral wept - there is a man, and here is a country. But as we can see from history, these people DIDN'T PLAY THEIR ROLE on the way to the inevitable. And vice versa - a much lower breed of people played a role. This also makes you think thoroughly. From the point of view of evolution, there is no good or evil - there is a selection of qualities that contribute to survival, occupation of niches and replication. In the USSR in the late 70s, many niches were occupied by the "wrong breed of people" you are talking about, the system allowed them to occupy these niches, the system allowed them to bring everything to a handle, and finally, the system did not contribute to the consolidation of the "best forces" to counteract this. This clearly demonstrates the state of such a system, in my opinion ..
                  1. impostor
                    impostor 11 January 2022 21: 59
                    +3
                    There are no vain events, vain deaths and births in history. Each event has its own (albeit unobvious, but indisputable) meaning. I am happy to be a part of great Russia and the people who determine its greatness. Centuries will pass, mine and your ashes will disappear, but Russia was, is and will be. Opinions must be, must be different, creative must be!
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 January 2022 20: 36
      -2
      In the end, the USSR paid for everything from its budget - the budget was filled with profitable and profitable production from domestic distribution and exports, but the costs became more and more and the profit was less and less common people and enterprises did not feel it, but the budget of the country in which in the 80s began to grow deficit in 1986 due to well-known events, both internal and external, he broke through the ceiling and in this case the state did not have any intelligible solutions or a significant stash for a rainy day.
    3. your1970
      your1970 11 January 2022 22: 33
      +2
      Quote: nikvic46
      .In the USSR, there was a fund of emergency housing. In the event of a fire, a person could get housing in just a week.

      Well, somewhere in a city with a million people - maybe there was ...
      In my district center, a full holder of the Order of Glory lived in a railway barrack ...1976!!!
      He lived in it until the 2000s - there he died ...
      Okay, now capitalist power - how could Soviet power like this?
      He was very shy, very ...
      He had to walk around the offices, yell, shake orders - he could not do that ...
      Barack collapsed 2 years after his death ...

      An aunt in Saratov - her private house burned down. The plant gave a room in a hostel 10 meters. On her and two small children - the uncle burned down in a fire ..
      The elder grew up, the younger died. And she was told - "And you can no longer apply for housing. Your footage allows ..."
      1983 year ...
  17. Siberian-1
    Siberian-1 11 January 2022 19: 03
    -6
    Quote: Andrey Moskvin
    Some kind of vile internal impression from this article.

    That's for sure. The medicine is always nasty. This alcohol is sweet and not thought-provoking.
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 11 January 2022 19: 16
      +1
      Quote: Siberian-1
      This alcohol is sweet and not thought-provoking.

      from what? still as it disposes !! the whole next day in repentance laughing
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 11 January 2022 19: 18
      -1
      Quote: Siberian-1
      The medicine is always nasty.

      The main thing here is not to confuse medicine with slops. Which you did safely.
    3. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 19: 59
      -1
      Thanks for the helpful comment, you made my evening)
  18. aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 11 January 2022 19: 03
    +7
    politely criticized the USSR .... Compared with Japan! but Japan did not have the Armed Forces and Space! This is an export-dependent economy and if the author does not know then Toyota, Nissan are assembled on American assembly lines.
    In addition, in the imposed race of consumption and the habit of luxury - a product of progress, Soviet houses on Stroiteley Street really seem boring ... But we must remember that 30 years have passed !!! Time is running. And it becomes clear that it is dangerous to live in the capitalist system, there are terrorists, coronaviruses, LGBT people and corruption. And I would be glad to come back but it is impossible.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 20: 03
      -1
      Japan was mentioned because the pace of Japan's development allowed it to catch up and overtake us in a very short period of time (35 years). This, in my opinion, indicates that our topics were no longer so progressive, relative to the pace of even the Asian states. That is, it was not necessary to talk about some advanced tricks of the socialism arrangement "in numbers". There was a time when the USSR occupied 25% of the world market of industrial robots (I read about it some time ago) - and we easily flew by this moment, lost leadership in this and in computers - and continued to lose position after position. And they - including Japan, picked it up. Doesn't this indicate the perfection and imperfection of the bureaucracy and the state apparatus?
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 11 January 2022 20: 31
        +4
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        Doesn't this indicate the perfection and imperfection of the bureaucracy and the state apparatus?

        very broad question !! but in reality everything is simpler - electronics and cars have chosen one direction and are improving it. And we joined the arms race and the spread of Communism in Africa. Imagine if we did not distribute enterprises built abroad but would retain a controlling stake in them ??
        Why arm Mozambique and Somalia? after all, it is we who are to blame for their war. And so everywhere !!
        1. Knell wardenheart
          11 January 2022 20: 47
          +3
          Vooot! So I think - why didn't we use our priority in nuclear energy to sign contracts with the Europeans? Why did they not take the market for commercial satellite launches throughout Eurasia by the gills? Gigantic money passed us by. The same BESM was the best computer in Europe for its time, but it never occurred to us to monetize it. A system that missed out on benefits in such batches, but still had an increasing dependence on Western means and technologies, is it fundamentally perfect? These are the questions that led me to write the last two articles. I am not going to suck up the lost profits of the USSR and its mistakes ad infinitum - for me this is just a set of very instructive things that it would be desirable for our country to work out for its own good.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 11 January 2022 20: 53
            +3
            Quote: Knell Wardenheart
            for me this is just a collection of very instructive things,

            I remember talking at the design bureau with a designer of household appliances, still a student in Soviet times, he complained about the lack of polymers for the production of tape recorders. He said that all the charm of imports in imported equipment lies in various types of polymers with various properties. Apart from gray plastic and two types of rubber, we do not produce anything. First of all, we lagged behind in polymer chemistry
          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 11 January 2022 20: 59
            +2
            Quote: Knell Wardenheart
            is it fundamentally perfect?

            I assure you the distribution system under Stalin strived for perfection laughing in a good way. The management system lost, or, more precisely, the system of training and selection of the Elite was absent as a subject (the higher party school does not count). The Ideological Purpose was lost ... even 10 communists present at the forum will give 10 different definitions of Communism or Socialism. If the definitions suddenly coincide, then the understanding will be different smile
            1. Knell wardenheart
              11 January 2022 21: 08
              0
              Quote: aybolyt678
              I assure you the distribution system under Stalin strove for laughing perfection in a good way.

              I will not argue. For myself, for a long time already, I decided that the ruined Vavilov and the sat down designers of missiles and aircraft are not the best moments for the system of my dreams. But here we come to a potentially endless dispute, you know)
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 12 January 2022 07: 12
                +1
                Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                ruined Vavilov

                ++ One of those very moments that the Stalinists forget about ... and although I am a fan of Stalin, I can explain, but I am ashamed crying
                Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                best moments for my dream system

                How interesting! can you be very short?
                1. Knell wardenheart
                  12 January 2022 12: 12
                  +3
                  Brevity, alas, is not my talent) I'll try.
                  The state should collect high-quality statistics and conduct high-quality analytics - on the basis of which it forms large regional projects and the Project itself as a whole. These data are available to people and businesses within the state, and the advantage in the form of cheap generation, energy resources, and mathematical resources should primarily serve the interests of the development of domestic business, as the emergence and development of which will gradually reduce the export of "firewood". Super-profits from such exports should be directed to buying up enterprises, patents, training specialists abroad, among other things. The very load on the maintenance of the social sector should over time smoothly redistribute from the shoulders of large raw materials exports to the shoulders of business, for the interests of which the state should conduct most of its supporting activities for a fairly long time. We have a huge potential for economic growth - as our business grows, we will subjugate the markets of the former Soviet republics. A competent tax line within the country will allow us to build up decent social services and education / medicine that combines paid and free functions in parallel with increasing the tax burden. But due to the fact that we are producers of resources for our business expansion, we have the opportunity to extract additional income (relative to developed countries-assembly shops), which we, as the business climate develops within the state, will be distributed to the needs of society, compensating for the purely tax burden on a person (in relation to what it is in the EU, for example)
                  In domestic politics, I think that all these games with non-professional thoughts full of demagogues, athletes and actors are a parody of democracy. The authorities should have professionals with higher education. Thus, the conditional "votes" of the voters of the party will be converted not into party lists, consisting of a vinaigrette of famous people and relative specialists, but into a limited number of vacancies according to the highest professional characteristic (professional parliament) - which they will have the right to occupy with those of their specialists, whom they will regard as the conductors of the line of their parties. Among other things, this system would save a lot of money for the state. Politics cut off from our borders and business interests must be done away with - everything we do must bring profit to the state and promote the development of its high-tech business. Our "zone of influence" must be subordinated to economic and cultural levers - this will gradually happen by itself, as the degree of our perfection increases. We should overhaul the laws by a collegium of people from different parties (professionals), selected in such a way that their lobby interests are minimal. The laws need to be revised towards more intuitive clarity, the absence of ambiguous interpretations and taking into account the model of the state that we want to build. In short, I would put it this way - we need to learn to treat people the way they do in Switzerland, create a product the way they create in Japan, count money the way they think in Israel, build the way they build in China. There are a lot of thoughts here and they are all waiting in the wings for the fourth article of the cycle. There is something to discuss!
      2. DIM (a)
        DIM (a) 11 January 2022 20: 44
        +3
        the United States poured a lot of money into japan while killing civilians in the region ...
    2. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 11 January 2022 20: 10
      +3
      Totsots are collected in Japan, and in Europe, and in America and here
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 11 January 2022 20: 23
        0
        I mean the beginning of them
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 January 2022 20: 47
      -5
      It is dangerous to live in the capitalist system, there are terrorists, coronaviruses, LGBT people and corruption - And in the USSR there were bandits and maniacs and even terrorists rapists bribe takers drug addiction alcoholism viruses LGBT representatives and party economic mafia in the republics have their own majors an elite get-together with places where ordinary passers-by and workers were ordered - they just were not told about them from every iron, as now then all this was hidden from the public masses by a curtain of dense information fog.
    4. evgen1221
      evgen1221 11 January 2022 22: 29
      +3
      Do you know why Toyota and Nissan in America began to assemble? price and quality, as well as killed the production of tv from them. Reagan offered the Japanese, or bring in fewer cars and sell them, respectively, or cut off the gas as if. The Japanese accepted this but did it more cunningly - if they had to import cars several times less into America, then no one limited the production of unworthy ones, so they quickly built their factories and again filled America with good cars. All legally got out in response to the ultimatum of amers who lost their car market. And if Japanese cars were not good, they would not have bought them, and this is the merit of the management of the country of Japan, which created the conditions for this, carefully analyzing the experience of the USSR and the United States at that time. What the author is talking about, let's think and not be nostalgic for the past.
    5. your1970
      your1970 11 January 2022 22: 54
      -2
      Quote: aybolyt678
      there are terrorists here,

      There were no terrorists in the USSR? Did they blow up the metro and capture the planes?
      Quote: aybolyt678
      coronaviruses
      and he was, only weaker - the usual drugs killed him
      Quote: aybolyt678
      LGBT

      All of Moscow in the 1980s knew that it was impossible to sit on the benches in the park near the Bolshoi - they would immediately run over ...
      Quote: aybolyt678
      corruption
      - exactly 1 second to think about - how much theft has become more than 100 - that it was necessary to introduce a tower into the Criminal Code for this ..

      Everything you named - only this was not shouted from every iron.

      When you don’t know, it’s like it’s not (c) baby
  19. Siberian-1
    Siberian-1 11 January 2022 19: 05
    -1
    Quote: your1970
    "Run !!!! They will beat them !!! (c) I don't remember whose ....
    Now people who are not capable of even minimally critical of the past will come running and will cut the author into cutlets ...

    This is in the movie "Farewell to the pigeons." "Run, Uncle Mitya!"
  20. yuriy55
    yuriy55 11 January 2022 19: 08
    +8
    Listen, you apologist for capitalism.
    Many mistakes were made during the construction of the first socialist state. It is not enough to say mistakes, there were actual mistakes and even failures. But this is only because, firstly, there has not yet been such a system of economic management in the world; secondly, there were a lot of people in the world who wanted to parasitize on human labor, degrading and belittling the value of free labor according to the principle: from each according to his ability, to each according to his work.
    For the citizens of the USSR, free housing was built on such a scale that if this vaunted capitalism of yours happened after the Great Patriotic War, we would still live in barracks and dugouts (if we lived at all).
    In the USSR, there were wonderful doctors who went through the school of field hospitals. The lack of tools and drugs compensated for the kind attitude, free care and the absence of the shameful phenomenon when people raised money for the treatment of children.
    Under Stalin, there was a tuition fee. True, orphans were exempted from such a fee ...
    What can I say to you? The garbage can you poured on the USSR is akin to those ravings of Solzhenitsyn.
    We are no worse than Putin (and maybe) and better than him, we knew life from the inside. It was he who had neither cows nor any other living creatures in Baskov Lane. He rode a horse as president. Therefore, especially for him, there was no Gostiny Dvor, no metro, no grocery and manufactured goods stores in Leningrad. And we did it in Siberia.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 11 January 2022 19: 33
      +6
      yes, you succeed and do not argue with the author - I am quoting what I read above
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      It's just that, in my opinion, they started very cheerfully - then they reached a good plateau, and then they lost the momentum and everything got stuck.

      he says that under Stalin they started cheerfully, and then downhill to Gorbachev ...
    2. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 20: 09
      -1
      The capitalism of the Federal Republic of Germany, which successfully rebuilt the country in a very short period, is indignant about Oo Like Japanese capitalism. Dadada tell me, they HELPED. Of course they helped! And we, despite the lagging pace, helped the Arabs-Latin American-African countries-young Asian socialisms, etc., and as a result lost a lot of funds and resources on this, which could be used for much better dynamics of development of everything mentioned in the article. There were problems. But, these problems did not seem to be noticed. Do you know how many African states were left to the USSR at the time of the collapse? What do you think, how many communal apartments could be resettled with this money in the USSR itself?
      Lack of tools and drugs compensated for the good attitude

      Yeah, then we admit it? And we consider this to be normal, given that the USSR positioned itself as the SECOND superpower on the planet? You see, the second steepest country in the world, and there is no means to ensure that in their own SOCIALLY ORIENTED country, the supply of doctors bloomed and smelled? Don't you think this is strange ?!
      1. bar
        bar 11 January 2022 21: 15
        -1
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        The capitalism of the Federal Republic of Germany, which successfully rebuilt the country in a very short period, is indignant about Oo Like Japanese capitalism.

        The United States is indignant, for whose money the capitalism of the FRG was restored. They are offended that the respected (in quotation marks) author forgot about the Marshall Plan. Although, judging by the erudition of the aforementioned author and his ability to pull out convenient facts from history and not pay attention to inconvenient ones, this is not at all surprising.
        You see, the second steepest country in the world, and there is no means to ensure that the supply of doctors bloomed and smelled in their own SOCIALLY ORIENTED country? Don't you think this is strange?

        And here it is - a vivid confirmation of the author's ability to manipulate facts.
        And I will answer - I'm not strange. It is not strange for me that a great country in a short period of time suffered on its territory two world wars and one civilian, suffered enormous casualties, while without any outside help, during the Cold War, she managed to build the nuclear industry, astronautics from scratch, and at the same time, the salaries of her doctors were lower than the incomes of medical doctors in the same USA.
        It is strange to me that a "respected" author, not understanding such elementary things, is trying to open our eyes to our history.
      2. yuriy55
        yuriy55 12 January 2022 05: 10
        -2
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        Don't you think this is strange ?!

        It doesn't seem strange to me when people just help other people DISSOLVELY !!!
        This happens when they share the last piece of bread with the hungry, or give the clothes to the undressed.
        There is no selflessness in the capitalist world, but you don't know it ...
        1. Knell wardenheart
          12 January 2022 12: 24
          +4
          Have you ever heard of the Joint and The Salvation Army and the Red Cross? Read it! And then here many people like you love to shoot epic phrases - behind which there is nothing.
          1. yuriy55
            yuriy55 12 January 2022 12: 33
            -1
            Quote: Knell Wardenheart
            Have you ever heard of the Joint and The Salvation Army and the Red Cross?

            I was a member of the Red Cross before you learned to write ... These stamps (not postage) cost 10 kopecks and were membership fees for schoolchildren:
            1. Knell wardenheart
              12 January 2022 12: 36
              +3
              True, but where were these organizations established? Who involved fixed assets in them? These very "dirty cap. Countries", heartless and so on.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 12 January 2022 22: 56
          -4
          Only the USSR helped to its bankruptcy - half of the world for thanks and coconut barter and mountains of free weapons filled up these countries "Dove of Peace" helped and befriended the dead dictatorial - scumbags and cannibals, they promised to build socialism at home, but in fact they just sat on their necks - freebie that goes that does not sit.
      3. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 12 January 2022 09: 06
        +1
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        Capitalism of the Federal Republic of Germany, which successfully rebuilt the country in a very short period

        I think the success of Germany lies in the position of Adenauer - "it is unfair when a beer merchant earns more than a highly skilled worker"
    3. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 11 January 2022 20: 12
      +4
      You did not understand the essence, the author does not pour mud on the USSR, in my opinion, on the contrary, understanding that we were the first, it was impossible to avoid mistakes, and now, from the outside and from time to time, he is trying to comprehend what would have to be adjusted and tweaked then, for further development of the ussr along this path
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 11 January 2022 21: 48
        0
        One thing is clear: the author does not understand what exactly it was necessary to "tweak and tweak", and that the majority of readers understand this. laughing
        1. Knell wardenheart
          12 January 2022 00: 49
          +3
          The author understands this quite well) At least, he has his own more or less connected opinion on this matter) But this is a potentially astronomical article, the whole profit from which could be designated as "How would I revive the dying USSR if I were in charge" ... That is, this is a meaningless and huge work) So, thinking about "how to tweak" I saved up for a cycle of four articles (and I really hope that the first of them will finally be moderated!) And sent it to the present-future. And the past is so, experience, lessons ... no more.
      2. yuriy55
        yuriy55 12 January 2022 12: 41
        -1
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        what would then have to be adjusted and tweaked for the further development of the USSR along this path

        What had to be tweaked in the USSR and why is stated in the article by JV Stalin "Economic problems of socialism in the USSR" in 1952 (a year before his death).
        USSR - Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
        Abbreviation written in capital (capital) letters.
  21. aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 11 January 2022 19: 15
    +8
    article title - reflections on "free". You can write exactly the same article about Jewish synagogues in which milk was distributed free of charge. Milk in Hebrew is "halev" hence the thieves' word for free. In essence, the synagogue redistributed the donations of the rich to what was needed for the poor, especially small children, this ensured their survival.
    In the USSR, under Stalin, a unique income equalization system was created, ensuring the country's security and its development, one should not consider free conditionally paid - the crisis of the USSR is primarily a crisis of governance and nothing more.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 20: 12
      -1
      The management crisis occurred, among other things, because the cadres who were supposed to replace the Stalinist bureaucracy turned out to be worse than it for the most part. It was such a large-scale phenomenon that the mass of people at the top were passive, lack of initiative (this is a hello to that comrade who wrote somewhere above about "all-round development"), uncreative - and as a result, these people brought everything to the handle. With the tacit consent of a significant mass of people who liked a strong country but did NOT like the general limitations of their capabilities (including what I listed).
  22. 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 11 January 2022 19: 15
    +4
    Just a point of view, the answer to which was that in the USSR there was a different pricing system, radically different from the cap. system, and here everything is considered from the side of the capitalists, i.e. one-sided.
    It turns out that the author of the bulbs hides the facts behind his ears.
    For what purpose - out of ignorance or on purpose ?!
    NLP in cash.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 20: 16
      +2
      And this is a qualitative comparison. It does not matter for evolution what kind of shell a turtle has - red or star-striped, for evolution it is important how strong it is, how fast the turtle runs and reproduces. The USSR lost to the West in pace - and no matter what we wanted to build there, we did NOT build it. If you sit down and ask yourself the question "WHY?" then you can endlessly chew on the topic "oh, the west is all pernicious ...", or you can dig into the economy, education, foreign policy, etc., and there will be answers to this "WHY". And the color of the shell has nothing to do with it - the turtle turned out to be slow.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 12 January 2022 23: 05
      -2
      "In the USSR, there was a different pricing system, radically different from the capitalist system, but here everything is viewed from the side of the capitalists, that is, one-sided." What is it - that in the USSR there was a bottomless bucket from which for all comers it was possible to draw forever all the resources and benefits with money without putting anything back in exchange?
  23. hohol95
    hohol95 11 January 2022 19: 19
    -5
    Dear Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    You did not indicate in the article that housing was not just provided - 90% of it was departmental!
    Having received it, a Soviet man could not change his place of work!
    Having quit his job, he had to vacate a house for another employee of the company!
    Housing was also an incentive for attracting workers to the "non-prestigious" branches of the municipal economy - Housing Operations Offices!
    A simple locksmith, having worked for 1 year, could get a room in a hostel, and when creating a family and having children, he could count on an apartment in the same brick, block or panel "Khrushchev"!
    But working with tenants is not a factory or a Scientific Institute for you ...
    That still "Zoo"! There are also "Lions with Tigers", but you can get to the "Hyenas".
    1996 to 2008 work in the "communal sphere" of the city.
    1. Warhead-xnumx
      Warhead-xnumx 11 January 2022 19: 23
      +2
      This makes no sense. The citizen calmly changed his place of work and no one took anything from him and did not evict him into the street.
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 11 January 2022 19: 41
        +1
        Exactly. Difficulties in obtaining housing were experienced by doctors, teachers and some other categories. And the enterprise had funds for construction ...
        Even the janitors had the right to leave their homes for themselves, having worked for 15 years ... That is why there were janitors in every house and the courtyards were cleaned ...
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 11 January 2022 19: 46
        +1
        If you haven’t come across something like this, this does not mean that departmental housing was given away on the right and on the left!
        If the family received a new apartment, a person from the same organization moved into the vacated one. And in the room already vacated by this family, let’s say, a room in a dormitory was infused with other employees of the same organization!
        And the departmental housing could well have been asked to release !!!
      3. ZeeD
        ZeeD 11 January 2022 20: 03
        0
        Depends on the work and the conditions for providing housing. Somewhere they were evicted, but not everywhere.
    2. Siberian54
      Siberian54 11 January 2022 19: 52
      0
      All free housing was departmental ... and there were special conditions of registration for workers of some non-prestigious professions where the release of the occupied area in case of dismissal or violation of the employment contract was stipulated. getting a job
    3. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 12 January 2022 09: 12
      0
      Quote: hohol95
      Having quit his job, he had to vacate a house for another employee of the company!

      not everything is so simple ... if a person worked for several years, housing could not have been vacated
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 12 January 2022 09: 34
        +1
        Everything depended on the term of "working off"!
        Then in one construction office, in the "terrible" 90s, they introduced the receipt of an apartment in installments!
        And until you pay for the apartment, you work wherever they send you (business trips to Moscow). And you will collect all the processing.
        And to advance through the "apartment queue" the drinking companion turned in a drinking companion-colleague!
  24. Victor Dubovitsky
    Victor Dubovitsky 11 January 2022 19: 29
    +1
    Quote: smith 55
    Yesterday, in the Opinions section, in the article "Kazakhstan or 30 Years of Dead-End Development of the USSR", in the comments I wrote about free cheese in a mousetrap.
    Received a lot of criticism.
    You have to pay for everything in life.
    The Union, providing us with a "free" apartment, medicine, education, etc., paid everyone less (or more precisely, the minimum) wages.
    With this money, we received "free" nishtyaks.

    Absolutely. I read the newspaper Argumenty i Fakty (I don’t remember more precisely) for 1988-1989. They wrote that the average salary in the USSR was not 150, but 511 rubles a month. It’s just that they didn’t give everything in hand. So, “free apartment” cost 23 rubles per month per month.This is not counting those payments for housing and communal services and services according to receipts.Total, three residents, working, paid 23 * 3 = 69 rubles per month. the cost of the apartment, and they did not become the owner of it. camps? .... For everything, after all, from these 69 they calculated, monthly.
  25. New Year day
    New Year day 11 January 2022 19: 31
    +10
    It was necessary to create a whole shaft of medicines for new diseases, including more rare ones, test them, introduce and launch new production facilities.
    All this was done with a creak within the command-and-control system ...

    And now, are there any domestic drugs? -They are not there, but there is no command-admin system either. Somehow it happened
    And the command-administrative system coped with this less and less efficiently, supplying physicians with new means less and less (for an increasing range of problems)

    Is she doing well now? There is not much, at least in my hospital, although they say through the box that everything is there.
    The work of Soviet free medicine also showed itself not from the best side during the Chernobyl disaster. It turned out that, despite the thirty-year practice of large-scale NPP construction and nuclear tests, medicine is completely unprepared for such a development of events - neither at the preparative level, nor at the organizational level.

    Phenomenal! How has modern medicine dealt with covid? How is it with the queues at the clinics? How many hundreds of thousands of doctors are missing in the country? Obviously everyone is happy laughing
    ... the peculiarities of the “binding” of the population to medical institutions created such a bad phenomenon as the growing lack of alternatives for specialists.

    I would like to please the author, since January 1, all cancer patients were again assigned to territorial health care facilities. Now it is no longer possible to go to the center for treatment.
    It was extremely inconvenient for a person, even with money and need, to effectively solve an important issue for him if the local environment hindered this ...

    Now the problem is of a different kind - even by paying, you run the risk of not getting high-quality medical care, otherwise you might even be killed. There are a lot of examples.
    Now we can (in theory) choose one of 100 500 dental clinics in our area, then everything was different - and the doctor was the first after God ...

    You can choose, but can you guarantee to find the ends in case of unsuccessful treatment?
    Free medicine......
    Her task was to get the worker to his feet so that he would continue swinging the hammer and sickle.

    And now the task is to cut the dough and the more, the better. And you don't have to worry about the quality - everything is according to the standard. If earlier, after resection of the stomach, the patient was discharged after 2 weeks, now it can be done in 4 days. If earlier, after cholecystectomy, they were discharged in 7-10 days, now - in 3-4 days. The list can be continued, but just at this time, postoperative complications begin to develop, but their diagnosis at home. It is impossible for the patients themselves and he is admitted to the hospital again in a state of disrepair. I will NOT forget a patient who was discharged from a paid hospital after having his stomach removed 2 days later, and 2 days later he was brought to us, city, with peritonitis. After another 3 days, he died.
    PS
    The author is knowledgeable enough

    PS in medicine since 1980. I can say that yes, there has been a technological breakthrough, but ... not everywhere, medicine has become less accessible and less "reliable". Most importantly, they lost the Soviet doctor, they were replaced by medical merchants or medical doctors who do not care, who are alien to compassion for the patient, the principles “God gave, God took”, “Kovid will write off everything” appeared.
    Scary.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 21: 39
      +2
      I will not undertake to compare the USSR system and our current one. I point out (and the article says it quite clearly) that contrary to the opinion of many people, the USSR system was not at all a phenomenal masterpiece. This does not mean that the system was terrible, it does not mean that it is better now. According to my previous article, there were a lot of comments in which people literally demanded that all this "freebie" be included in the list of Successes - and now, it seemed to me interesting to argue why I do not consider it super-achievements. The current system is vicious, it is socially oriented to a much lesser extent - and I will never praise it in my right mind) periodicals on medical topics, buy foreign medicines (but not all), etc. We at least see the world's honey. and the image. experience - and we have the opportunity to USE this at least somehow. This is the only plus that I see.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 12 January 2022 10: 14
        0
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        and a person can read the world periodicals on medical topics much more freely

        I will disappoint you - now even our medical literature has become inaccessible because of its price. A decent book costs from 2000. And under the Soviet Union I could buy special literature as a student and develop.
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        buy foreign medicines (but not all)

        then all this was bought by the state and got sick. I don’t think that many people can afford to buy an expensive one, and they collect money for the treatment of children by SMS. Was this possible under the USSR?
        1. Knell wardenheart
          12 January 2022 12: 29
          +3
          I don’t know, it’s not the first year that I have been reading books in electronic format - absolutely free. The number of electronic scans or just digital images of scientific literature on the Internet is growing every year (despite the fact that it seems like piracy), there are resources that distribute access to scientific digital literature by category.
          With money for sick children, everything is generally very strange - when the VAT was increased by 2%, it was done under the pretext of creating a fund for such children. Well, the VAT was increased - but as they collected, they collect it.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 12 January 2022 23: 12
            -2
            Probably, in order for money from this fund to be given, you need to submit documents and wait, and many do not want to wait to bother much faster and easier by SMS to collect a week and everything is collected - and the money from the fund can wait a month or more.
    2. your1970
      your1970 12 January 2022 00: 07
      -2
      Quote: Silvestr
      lost a Soviet doctor,

      Doctor only 1 question - in the passport in 1988 there were 3 Rh positive, in the military in 1990 - 4 Rh negative.
      How???????
      Well, it seems like a group can be confused with an expired drug - and what about Rhesus? Both times the analysis was handed over ...
      Quote: Silvestr
      doctors are indifferent,
      ??

      As in Elista in 1988, when they expanded injections with non-sterilized syringes ...
      1. your1970
        your1970 12 January 2022 07: 00
        +3
        Minusers
        I would gladly attach scans of my passport and WB with blood groups - but the passport has long been changed by age, alas ...
        To deny the outbreak of HIV among children in Elista in 1988 due to the negligence of doctors is stupid, it was recognized even during the Soviet era ...
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 12 January 2022 10: 49
        -1
        Quote: your1970
        Doctor only 1 question - in the passport in 1988 there were 3 Rh positive, in the military in 1990 - 4 Rh negative.
        How???????

        This can never be, someone was mistaken. Blood type and rhesus once to the end
        1. your1970
          your1970 12 January 2022 12: 16
          +2
          Quote: Silvestr
          Quote: your1970
          Doctor only 1 question - in the passport in 1988 there were 3 Rh positive, in the military in 1990 - 4 Rh negative.
          How???????

          This can never be, someone was mistaken. Blood type and rhesus once to the end

          There were 2 DOCUMENTS - what to do with it? Which of the doctors spit on the grave?
          Who would answer - if the wrong group was poured into me?
          But what am I talking about ... in the days of the USSR, the maximum would have been reprimanded to the doctor ..
          Treatment of a cold in 1984 with my father led to 2 groups of disability.

          When I dislocated my knee in 1987 and stayed in the hospital for 4 weeks with nonsupply tumors and fever, I was offered amputation.
          Mom picked me up from the hospital and took me to my uncle in Moscow, who was in charge of the children's emergency room.
          Uncle looked at the map and made a speech on latin- I understood only "muda" and "purulent pido" ....
          And at that time he had a commission from the Ministry of Health ...
          He put my medical card on their table, put the X-ray and the tongue tape - and the commission left silently without writing a single comment to him ...
          The langette was 32 cm.
          A snapshot - "One tooth is removed on these in Moscow" (his words)
          My uncle did a normal brace, a puncture - I don’t know (I was in a swoon). In a week I was already walking almost normally ...

          An ordinary Soviet district hospital, ordinary Soviet doctors ...
          "A bucket of castor oil, if it doesn't help we'll cut it .." (c) anecdote from 1970
          1. Knell wardenheart
            12 January 2022 12: 44
            +3
            It’s a paradox, but I also have a meeting. birth rhesus does not coincide with the one in the medical card. So these were not isolated cases during the campaign.
            1. your1970
              your1970 12 January 2022 16: 43
              +2
              Doctors told me that the Soviet reagent in the group, when it was delayed, gave such a spread of groups. But it is impossible to determine Rhesus incorrectly in any way

              Quote: Silvestr
              This can never be, someone was mistaken.

              In a supervised large village (regional center) - all old men and women born in 1922,1923, 1924, 1926 and 01 have a date of birth - January 1925, except XNUMX.
              Intriguing, I began to find out - what kind of chaos ????
              It turned out that the local regional department burned down in 1930 and these particular books did not save ...
              Nobody was fooled and asked when issuing new documents
              -1922 ??
              - so you will be born on 01.01.1922/XNUMX/XNUMX ...
              Nobody even tried to look for something.
              I exposed the passport officer at that time lol - for all 01.01.1923/03/XNUMX and for her on August XNUMX. She repented with her own hand, Vladyka - she wrote and wrote down the documents for herself as it should be.
              She also explained - the card index was saved, but it was kept in the next building while you go, until you find it ...
              It was easier to burn 01.01 ..

              Here you and I seem to be such a "kind compassionate" Soviet doctor and zhahnul ... the fry of the wrong ...
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 12 January 2022 18: 23
                +1
                Quote: your1970
                The doctors told me that the Soviet reagent in the group, when it was overdue, gave such a range of groups.

                If they are overdue or did not follow the rules. I saw similar facts in all cases - violation of the procedure, misinterpretation of the result, negligence
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 12 January 2022 18: 21
            +1
            Quote: your1970
            There were 2 DOCUMENTS - what to do with it?

            Identify at a blood transfusion service. If you do not follow the technology of determination or interpret the result incorrectly, then mistakes are frequent.
            Quote: your1970
            Who would answer - if the wrong group was poured into me?

            During transfusion, there is also a chain of procedures and each subsequent one must confirm the compatibility of the donor's and recipient's blood
            1. your1970
              your1970 12 January 2022 22: 38
              0
              Quote: Silvestr
              During transfusion, there is also a chain of procedures and each subsequent one must confirm the compatibility of the donor's and recipient's blood

              Trouble is what it is NOW, under damn capitalism ...
              And under the "good Soviet doctors" they brought us in 1988 to 2 Urals - 40 conscripts were digging - to donate blood to the hospital in Dzerzhinsk ...
              We sorted by CARDS (where I have 4 negative rhesus, yeah-yeah) into 4 rooms and we began to take. In each office there are 2 couches for rhesus ...
              NO more checks, no more ...
              We drove once a month, for the whole study

              "The chain of procedures", yeah ... and in general - what for then there was generally a mark - if the TYPE is rechecked 10 more times?

              HIV in Elista in 1988 in children went because the syringes were not boiled at all, absolutely ..
  26. Warhead-xnumx
    Warhead-xnumx 11 January 2022 19: 33
    +5
    Housing was not "shareware", as the author of the opus tries to convince us, but specifically free for a citizen. And this happened due to a more equitable distribution of state revenues between citizens. If we now calculate the cost of all palaces and villas built over the past 20 years, then this money could fully provide half of Russia with economy class housing. In the Union, personal palaces were not built, and therefore there was enough money for Khrushchev houses for ordinary citizens. And instead of the world's largest yachts, there was free medicine and pioneer camps and sanatoriums. Instead of personal bentleys and lamborghinis, there was universal free education. It's all about the fair distribution of state revenues, and not about some kind of "hidden taxes" and "lifelong mortgages" of Soviet citizens.
    1. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 11 January 2022 20: 16
      +4
      Alas, there was no fair distribution of income under the USSR, especially in the late, well, there was no word at all
    2. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 11 January 2022 20: 18
      -1
      Abramovich bought the largest yacht and which one. Oh, there is an airplane, and as the governor of Chukotka, he built, repaired, and wanted to punish him for that with his own money! Idiocy? Full .. He completely gave his business to the state, went into the cash and spends as he wants, what to do, capitalism
    3. your1970
      your1970 12 January 2022 17: 07
      +1
      Quote: CU-5
      If now we calculate the cost of all palaces and villas built over the past 20 years, then with this money

      You will be very surprised - but even these pennies cannot solve the problem of emergency housing ...
  27. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 11 January 2022 19: 40
    -2
    Despite the fact that the author was cleverly undressing everything ..., in the comments again there are a lot of whiners ... As in that cartoon about Thomas ... Tolya is obstinacy, or obstinacy ... I’m even wondering what drives these howlers ...
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 21: 45
      -2
      Some people read by keywords) You know, there is a series of such funny pictures on the internet, punch in Yandex: "types of Internet users funny pictures werewolf", there will be several. This is actually a very common type of user - quite an adequate person who, seeing a certain trigger phrase in the text, turns into a sort of red alert man. What kind of analysis ?! What "think" ?! BURN THE HERETICS!)
  28. Gardamir
    Gardamir 11 January 2022 19: 41
    +6
    Everything is relative. If you write about "bad" socialism. then compare and "good" capitalism.
    Free housing or housing on credit. By the way, everything depended on the place where you worked. could be obtained relatively quickly.
    Free medicine or no money for treatment.
    The freedom to choose a job or go wherever they take, but they may not pay.
    By the way, the other side of paid and free is the notorious optimization. For snowless winters in Moscow, snow removal equipment and windshield wipers have been optimized. Sometimes when you go to work you feel like you are in a multi-storey village. The houses are high-rise buildings, and the path is like in a remote village. Another focus of optimization is medicine. I suspect that the covid would not have been allowed into the country. And now they are being treated with maskammi.
    By the way, cards appeared in the Union at the end of Gorbachev's perestroika. And now, with the flourishing of capitalism, they also offer cards.
    1. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 11 January 2022 20: 19
      -1
      The first cards appeared a little earlier than Gorbachev ... They would have let Covid in, had AIDS got through?
  29. Siberian54
    Siberian54 11 January 2022 19: 43
    +4
    There was a departmental polyclinic (W / D), but I could also be treated in the village and district ... Now one district was left without half of the former specialists ... This is me about the alternative ..
    1. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 11 January 2022 20: 21
      +3
      Alas, when the Ministry of Railways died, the Railways JSC became, then gradually, as from non-core assets, they got rid of polyclinics, hospitals, dispensaries, and so on, and so it happened everywhere in all industries, it's terrible
    2. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 21: 47
      -1
      Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying it's gotten better. I point out the points that HINDERED to get Better.
      1. Siberian54
        Siberian54 12 January 2022 06: 13
        +1
        \ knell \ In one thing, you are right, you have to pay for everything, and under socialism they also paid, huddled on "12 squares, a toilet at the end of the corridor" for 10-15 years Muscovites, Leningraders are closer to the center, on the northern coast of the Black Sea and in general, where it is more comfortable and more promising to live, and normal people went to construction sites and in addition to good earnings in a year or two moved into new housing, in rural areas they built not without the help of parents and relatives (the atavisms of the community are still felt in the outback) they built for three years for themselves housing or bought (from 1,000 to 7,000 rubles, depending on the location of the estate) My family and I just moved to a construction site (KATEK) for the first time in a temporary hut three months later, I managed before the Komsomol detachment, (well, as in a temporary hut, an ordinary two-story building made of plywood is warm. two rooms 40 squares, kitchen 22 squares) a year later, a panel of the last series with a normal kitchen and three rooms
  30. Alt 22
    Alt 22 11 January 2022 20: 07
    +5
    There are a lot of bukoffs with which the author (through "ff") unsuccessfully tries to bypass the most important thing - housing in the USSR was paid for the state, and free for ordinary citizens of the country. And - much more affordable than today.
  31. businessv
    businessv 11 January 2022 20: 14
    +9
    Starting to read, I expected to see systematized and substantiated data, for example, how the Union coped with the resettlement of 25 million people who lost their homes during the war, how medicine managed to solve the problem of almost complete eradication of poliomyelitis, agriculture after the war was the first to restore the possibility of providing the population with food, but in fact I read that housing in the Union, it turns out, was not free (even a schoolchild knows that everything, without exception, has a price!), medicine and education are also bullshit, and the collective farmers are not at all busy. Was everything that was done after the war possible without an efficient economy and industry as a whole? Are you tired of proving that the current system is better than the socialist one? For each, mostly emotional, and not confirmed author's argument, I had a bunch of questions and counterarguments, for the presentation of which it would take 2 times more space than the article itself takes.
    ZY Will be similar to yours. I know that you only wrote about the shortcomings of the "free" directions of the Union and mentioned that the social system was in order until the 60s, and then drowned, but you forgot to mention that nowhere in the world there was such a system, so that it can be adopted and improved, as did Finland, Sweden, Norway and others like them. They forgot about state and collective farms, in which people lived better and much more satisfying than in cities, and managed to build a floor down. smile Everything is cognized in comparison, but only those who knew exactly how they lived at that time can compare. Unfortunately, you didn’t provide people with the opportunity to find out from your article.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 21: 51
      -2
      Are you tired of proving that the current system is better than the socialist one?

      Where, where did you find this idea in me?) In no way I think so.
      A series of four articles in which I'm going to reflect on these questions (and you yourself have noticed that this is a very large-scale topic) is already half-written - while the first article is waiting for moderation. If they release it, maybe we will have a discussion with you, maybe you will find something with me that I have not mentioned here.
      1. businessv
        businessv 13 January 2022 00: 06
        +2
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        If they release it, maybe we will have a discussion with you, maybe you will find something with me that I have not mentioned here.

        With all due respect to the hard work of journalism and to you, as its representative, I must add to you my humble opinion of how exactly journalism should be written, please forgive my boringness. You piled everything in one heap, this is not done if you are not writing an agitation. Everything is desirable to do, as in the textbook. Judging by your answer, you did not expect such a reaction from readers, but if you received it, then you wrote something wrong. wink Let's wait until the end of the moderation and continue our useful discussion-polemic. I think that our members of the forum will be interested in it. Sincerely hi
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. sergo1914
    sergo1914 11 January 2022 20: 26
    +8
    Funny. The author knows nothing about Soviet education. From the word "absolutely". I studied to be an engineer. 6 years. Baumanka. 1984-1990. The scholarship is 55 rubles (15 to the standard came from the MO). Plus food coupons in the institute cafeteria from the trade union.
    Laboratories, armored chambers, technological laboratories. It was called the "Russian school". Before you design something, you have to learn how to use it. Shoot, charge, clean, service. A lot of all sorts of babakhs were burned at practices and classes in country bases and training grounds. And a lot of people's money. Machine tools, equipment, consumables. I could cook steel myself after graduation. Make sand molds and cast parts into them. First practice (2 months) - Barricades. The second is Motovilikha. Summer - Orevo and Krasnoarmeysk. How much did it cost the state ... dear mom. But the result was the result. This is not my opinion. This is the opinion of the people with whom I worked after graduation. Where is this preparation now? Who will let them approach the self-propelled gun now? Or will it charge the Grad? Install the rocket on the launch pad? Himself. This is already a military training camp after the 4th course. S-200. MANPADS? On the. Just don't hit us. RPG? They lie in that shed. Take an armful. How many tapes for HP-30 can I take? How much you can take. Here the dot was not allowed to shoot. You can watch. You can disassemble, pick and assemble. Shooting is too small.

    Will we talk about the current practice bases, laboratories, salaries?
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 21: 54
      +1
      Let me quote myself
      All this suggests that the undoubted advantage of the free education of the USSR was the graduation of grassroots technical specialists, the rise of the general intellectual level of the population to a fairly good level, certain specialties of certain industries also deserve all respect - but to talk about the general life-giving force of a certain “Soviet free educational system ”, I would not risk it, because the fruits of this system could also be worthless and unprofessional, inert in thinking, insufficiently receptive and creative - in comparison, in my opinion, with their Western colleagues.

      Exactly in the middle of this quote I am talking about what you are writing about. In all honesty, do you think that the country trained ALL specialists as thoroughly as you?
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 12 January 2022 07: 01
        +2
        Of course not. But the general level of education has dropped. In engineering, computerization is driving. What several departments / sectors used to do is done by one person. Including the calculated part at a higher level. Medicine has sagged a lot. There are no objective reasons for the reduction in the number of specialists. Therefore, on one good one you will not go far. Medical friends confirm. In education - there is a crust - go teach. No real experience. They teach everyone. There is no selection. This is a business. You pay - learn. This is scary. In medicine and pedagogy. The scholarships are funny. You can't live on them. Even on macaroons.
    2. businessv
      businessv 13 January 2022 00: 08
      0
      Quote: sergo1914
      I studied to be an engineer. 6 years. Baumanka.

      If you've finished, respect! Any techie's dream! smile
  34. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 11 January 2022 20: 28
    +4
    One of the paradoxes is that in the countries of the socialist camp they very successfully combined all the advantages of socialism, successfully weaving into it elements of private entrepreneurship, the cooperative movement, and so on, and in our history, under Stalin, the artisan production gave out the bulk of the little things necessary in everyday life, and what Gorbachev did with his law on cooperation was another nail or step towards the collapse of the socialist economy
  35. mark1
    mark1 11 January 2022 20: 30
    +3
    Knell Wardenheart, in the USSR there was no free housing from the state, there was public housing rented out for social rent and a very limited number of cooperative housing (moreover, citizens were not particularly in a hurry to acquire it, and not so much because of the limited and high cost, but simply many satisfied with the state freebie, everyone expected, sooner or later, to sit out to the "free" living space.)
    It seems that you generally have a bad idea of ​​the specifics of life in the USSR, but you undertake to reason and reason.
    Education, health care, were also with their own specifics, the first is of quite good quality, and the second is also not a disaster (except for dentistry)
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 11 January 2022 22: 05
      +2
      Quote: mark1
      in the USSR there was no free housing from the state, there was public housing rented out for social rent

      Quote: mark1
      It seems that you generally have a bad idea of ​​the specifics of life in the USSR, but you undertake to reason and reason.

      But it is free housing that is considered by the mass of the author's opponents, who perceived this article as an attempt to throw mud at the Union.
  36. Victor Dubovitsky
    Victor Dubovitsky 11 January 2022 20: 32
    0
    Quote: Silvestr
    Phenomenal! How has modern medicine dealt with covid? How is it with the queues at the clinics? How many hundreds of thousands of doctors are missing in the country? Obviously everyone is happy

    Phenomenal. Compare a whole, still living country with a stump. With no borders that do not protect low prices within the country. Remind me how much the gas cost? 4 kopecks per cubic meter. How much gasoline? cheaper than soda. Have you forgotten how they poured it into a ditch so that they could fill a whole tank tomorrow, without calculating the savings, and without resetting the limits? How much bread? 20 kopecks. Etc. Is it possible now, in our conditions, to have such prices? I will not prompt, think for yourself. And the production can be compared THEN with the present? Of course, technologies worked in the USSR, which were decades behind those in the West. Can we say that today our technologies have become radically better? Yes, he just was gone.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 12 January 2022 23: 32
      -2
      And all this slowly but surely led the USSR to bankruptcy, produced below cost and squandered funds and resources to the right and to the left. And production does not make sense at all, since in the USSR everything was produced according to the plan in the civil sector in bulk outdated trash and buckets with bolts of what needed to be produced little and what was not needed a lot at the same loss now they produce exactly so much and what is used in demand as much as customers order and buy.
      "Can we say that today our technology has become radically better? Yes, it just is not." These are the technologies that we no longer have - can you give the details?
  37. Elturisto
    Elturisto 11 January 2022 20: 36
    +1
    Another incontinence of anti-Sovietists - after the quote .... "Of course, there will be a speculative premium for this, which, however, can be partially compensated by more skillful logistics ..."
  38. Soldatov V.
    Soldatov V. 11 January 2022 20: 36
    -5
    The article was written according to the manual of Radio Liberty. Two or three facts are taken that correspond to reality, and then a true lie is added, interpreted in the right direction and everything turns out badly and ugly. Who is the author of the article? An employee of the NATO Propaganda Department? How is his first and last name or pseudonym translated? Is this a German repatriate? Or is it a bunch from Israel?
    A very disgusting opus. Brezhnev resettled 170 million people in comfortable housing, and no one in the world surpassed him. The kitchens are small, because they decided to free the woman from housework, so that everyone will eat in canteens, cafes and restaurants. Remember set meals in restaurants for a ruble, maximum twenty ruble. Everyone who wanted to learn everything. What a developed network of evening and correspondence education was. They also paid a scholarship. At a university, 100 rubles, at a technical school, 80 rubles per session. There is no need to talk about evening schools. And what about pioneer camps? 25 days for 12 rubles and a feed from the belly. Here's how they talked with the second secretary of the regional party committee at the University of Marxism-Leninism - why are cars, carpets, crystal, good furniture so expensive? The answer is luxury and there is a hidden tax on it, just like on vodka. Yes, there were a lot of problems, but as they were understood, they were solved. negative soldier
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 11 January 2022 21: 04
      +7
      At the university 100 rubles

      Which universities paid such scholarships?
      1. Soldatov V.
        Soldatov V. 12 January 2022 12: 48
        -1
        They paid not at the university, but at work for the time of passing the exams at the sessions in the evening department of the institute. The so-called study leave. soldier
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 12 January 2022 12: 56
          +1
          You wrote:
          They also paid a scholarship. At a university, 100 rubles, at a technical school, 80 per session.

          And study leave in the past in the USSR and today in the Russian Federation is paid according to the average earnings, which are different for everyone.
          1. Soldatov V.
            Soldatov V. 12 January 2022 13: 02
            0
            Maybe later, which was good, but I remember the fixed rate of one hundred rubles and eighty.
  39. Eug
    Eug 11 January 2022 20: 43
    +3
    At some stage, the USSR had to switch to other methods of development. As for me, it would be interesting to have a system of greater satisfaction of individual needs, with the same apartments, similar to today's military housing certificates. With the transfer of lease to collectives of catering, trade and household enterprises, they also impermissibly delayed, moreover, they broke firewood in financial legislation. It was categorically impossible to do this against the background of a general deficit. And they did not switch to the right rails in time - and the system began to spin idle, devouring resources and producing disbelief in people ...
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 21: 59
      +2
      Exactly ! What a pity that not many people here understand this simple but important thing. The moment for the transition to a somewhat higher quality level should have happened in the second half of the 60s (as far as it seems to me), but this did not happen - alas.
  40. Basarev
    Basarev 11 January 2022 20: 47
    0
    In the end, it all comes down to a huge amount of costs for everything free and the USSR again conveniently pushed these costs onto the residents, without investing a dime of their money. The answer is simple: to begin with, abolish all taxes and taxes inside the country, because the state should live on its own, and not by extortion from citizens. At the same time, there should be a state monopoly on the external economy, so that not a penny would flow past the treasury. Actually, this is the role of the state - to collect funds from abroad for domestic purposes, especially for free, simultaneously serve as a shield against crises, taking on the blow and protecting citizens from the elements of the market. As for the rest, we should not interfere in the economic life of citizens, we will manage it ourselves.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 22: 00
      +1
      Vooot!
      Actually, this is the role of the state - to collect funds from abroad for domestic purposes, especially for free, simultaneously serve as a shield against crises, taking on the blow and protecting citizens from the elements of the market.

      Hats off, I couldn't have phrased it better!
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 11 January 2022 22: 58
        +1
        Sarcasm, but if the state as a system maintains a horde only at the expense of profits from abroad, then this means total export of everything abroad, Dozodos will not agree with costs multiple and the donkey will instantly die of strain. Maintenance and feeding only at the expense of income from the outside with free inside will kill the system and residents in a moment, the grub will end faster than the problems that such a system will solve. It doesn't work like that.
      2. unaha
        unaha 13 January 2022 09: 54
        -1
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        Hats off, I couldn't have phrased it better!

        In vain. The state should live on taxes from citizens. Otherwise, the state becomes a closed bureaucratic corporation that owes nothing to citizens and is not interested in improving their well-being. Rather, the opposite. And citizens do not have the opportunity to influence it.
        Which, in essence, we have thanks to the nationalization of the economy and the mass of extra-tax fees.
  41. evgen1221
    evgen1221 11 January 2022 21: 00
    +5
    As capitalism took something from socialism, so on the other hand, it was necessary to introduce something from the West in due time, but this immediately baffled the ideology of the exploitation of man and pissed off individual dogmatists (must). As a result, what we have is what we have and there is nothing to wish for and will return. We need to understand for ourselves what was good, where and how to change for the better, what to borrow and what not, and without any - the enemies around us are interfering with such attitudes, if the Russian Federation remained alone in the world and then the cards would be introduced because of the deficiency of everything and everyone However, in the case of Russia, the factor of who is the helmsman at this stage is very critical (it has always been the case with Russia), in fact, in the quality of education, training and outlook of future rulers.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 22: 02
      +1
      Exactly ! Thanks for the interesting comment! In addition to capital analysis, will is needed, but will without analysis can be useless.
  42. The comment was deleted.
  43. sleeve
    sleeve 11 January 2022 21: 22
    +4
    By and large, a broad article with a detailed consideration of the issue. But it is still better to simplify the understanding somewhat. Nevertheless, the USSR drew the main reserve for financing itself from the undistributed surplus value. Taking into account the absence of multi-stage production of ps at the stages of selling the goods, these are very serious sums, even with a complete lack of lability in relation to the cost price and amortization. By the way, calculations of the real structure of GDP in terms of cost components for GDP (share of wages, share of prime cost, share of depreciation, etc.) are very rare for the USSR period. Therefore, it is difficult to understand how much resource the state received at the expense of this surplus value. But on the whole, the share of wages for a worker in the USSR was much higher in relation to the same in the Russian Federation. Emnip 1/4 to 1/7 seems like this. Or even more.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 22: 05
      0
      Alas, the USSR was a closed state that loved to keep secrets. So it would be very difficult to qualitatively analyze all this. And without this, alas, it is impossible to say unequivocally what SHOULD be done in order for everything to survive and begin to positively evolve. However, there is some kind of food for analytics, and this is already good. The systems have their advantages; it is quite possible to build a more flexible and socially oriented analogue from them. There would be a desire and specialists ..
  44. Mikhail Sidorov
    Mikhail Sidorov 11 January 2022 22: 13
    +5
    Housing queues in terms of terms often corresponded or exceeded modern mortgages.

    Paying a mortgage. It takes a long time to pay. Parents got an apartment. Mom was 24 years old. Dad was 27 years old. Mother-in-law received 22 and 27 years old with her father-in-law, respectively. I will not list all examples of relatives. What are you talking about? Typical anti-Sovietism. It is necessary to argue the article. There are many commentators on the site who lived and remember that time very well. You are clearly publishing to the wrong address ...
    1. Knell wardenheart
      11 January 2022 23: 21
      -3
      Different subjective experiences. For example, in 1991 I found in the center of Moscow quietly existing communal apartments filled with people who plowed like devils, and whose parents plowed like devils. In communal apartments, everything that could rot has long been rotten, plaster fell off, the ceiling sagged - and this is in the capital! Your relatives are lucky - imagine that there were enough people who compensated for this imbalance and waited 20 years for a move to a new home. We changed two rooms in a communal apartment for two rooms in a block house of the same footage - and were insanely happy. But not everyone was so lucky, and not everywhere. Although people tied to a party career or distribution of housing could really pull the "jackpot" out of turn.
      1. lopvlad
        lopvlad 11 January 2022 23: 42
        +1
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        who plowed like devils, and whose parents plowed like devils.


        maybe they lived on a "grand" foot in bars, resorts and restaurants all their life. After all, it has long been noticed that the main thing is not how much you earn, but how much you spend. And in any state, the authorities do not strive to improve the living conditions of single citizens with whom, as a rule, it was filled communal apartment.

        Your relatives are lucky - imagine that there were enough people who compensated for this imbalance and waited 20 years to move to a new home.


        over 20 years it was quite possible to save up for your own housing. Then an apartment cost less than a "Zhiguli", less than 5 thousand, and in the regional center it was possible to buy a private house for 3 and a half thousand rubles.
  45. lopvlad
    lopvlad 11 January 2022 22: 39
    +2
    The article is a sort of collection of misunderstandings about the USSR and life within it.

    Especially amused
    "In the West, a person who has received an education can receive something else that expands his capabilities, contributes to work at the junction, etc. "
    in the United States at the moment, 43 million citizens can neither read nor write. The hypothetical opportunity to buy a second car without even having money to buy the first is frankly stupid. Only a few well-to-do citizens could and can get a quality education in the United States. In the USSR, for example, go to MGU and MGIMO could be any gifted student without even having a broken penny in his pockets.

    With all this, this housing was not the property of a citizen - he could not leave it as an inheritance in the classical sense, which we now understand.

    in order to sell something, you need to have it belong to you and complain that you cannot sell or inherit that something does not belong to you.
    Apparently the author got confused in the term "free" housing which was called so only because it was provided free of charge to a citizen for living while remaining in the property, on the balance sheet of a particular organization in which the citizen worked. Moreover, this housing for a citizen was often completely free (not only provided free of charge to its citizen, but also paid in full for his utilities and rent, and in case of family growth, she gave more spacious housing (two children of different sexes were born, get a three-ruble note instead of a one-room apartment)). Living in free housing, a Soviet citizen could save up without straining for his personal housing and almost always happened (when they retired they bought housing) This is not a mortgage where you carry all the communal burdens and payments while you do not own housing until there is The mortgage is fully paid off. You live in the fact that you do not own half of your life and at any moment, until the mortgage is paid off, you can be thrown out into the street.

    Well, the author, tell us how to inherit housing for which the mortgage has not been repaid?

    When buying a home, every citizen of the USSR received a sale and purchase agreement printed on a typewriter, which indicated the address of the home, the area and the amount for which this home was bought. In fact, it was the same document of ownership, the second copy of which was kept in local authorities ...
    As for inheritance, the Constitution of the USSR in 1936 secured the right of citizens to inherit. In 1945, the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR "On heirs by law and by will" introduced the previously absent sequence of calling to inheritance (heirs of the 1st to 3rd order) ...
    In Art. 117 of the Foundations of the Civil Law of 1961, two bases of inheritance were fixed - by law and by will.
    Bequeath property in accordance with Art. 119 of the Foundations of the Civil Law of 1961 was possible for any person - both included and not included in the circle of heirs by law.
    According to Art. 561 of the Civil Code of the RSFSR in 1964, citizens who had deposits in state labor savings banks or in the State Bank of the USSR could make an order to a savings bank or bank to issue a deposit in the event of their death to any person or state. In these cases, the contribution was not included in the estate.
  46. The comment was deleted.
  47. Wagner
    Wagner 11 January 2022 23: 44
    +3
    How much money is left on the deposits of Soviet citizens?
    Oddly enough, there is no exact answer to this question. Either the data is too unpleasant, or the last Soviet years have brought confusion, but academicians, deputies, journalists and other public figures argue about the total amount of contributions.

    Boris Kheifets, a representative of the Russian Academy of Sciences, spoke about $ 380-460 billion in terms of 2007 courses. American economist and journalist Jude Vanninski spoke out harsherly. In his opinion, based on the price level, the ruble and the dollar were approximately equal. This means that Soviet citizens lost about $ 600 billion in savings. This is 2/3 of all the money of the population and 10 times more than the external state debt of the USSR.

    Perhaps this is enough to answer the author of the article.
  48. ANB
    ANB 11 January 2022 23: 49
    +6
    Housing - what percentage of the population will now be given a mortgage? And where to live for the rest? My mom was waiting for an apartment for 1 year. After 4 I received a new, bigger one. Long lines were in Moscow and Leningrad.
    Medicine - even now, with a huge number of private centers, with difficult cases, everyone goes to a free state hospital.
    Education. Moreover, in the USSR I could get a second higher education for free. Now there is a frenzied demand for specialists with a Soviet education. The age bar for hiring is constantly shifting. Nowadays, education is expensive, the quality is worse and the selection is based on the wallet, not knowledge.
  49. The comment was deleted.
  50. billybones
    billybones 12 January 2022 02: 42
    +2
    It was a great country - the USSR. Once in 30 years after destruction it is so diligently smeared with mud. White is declared black and vice versa.
    An article as from the "perestroika" "Ogonyok" 1990. The amount of lies and absurdities is off the charts. But the author does not accept the arguments of those who disagree.
    The author, please answer two questions:
    What year were you born?
    What education do you have?