Military Review

History of archaeological practice

198

The only photograph of those distant years, namely the summer of 1973, from the very "archaeological practice" that is described in this material. The author in this photo is on the right, acting as a cook and interfering with the cooker in the cauldron. Interestingly, none of those who came to this photo, at the school constantly worked after graduating from the university, including the guys from the village. The author worked for four years, and everyone else ... fled in all directions ...


The tradition is fresh, but hard to believe;
As he was famous, whose neck was more often bent;
"Woe from Wit" A. Griboyedov

Memories of the past. VO constantly publishes materials on military stories ancient cultures, and this is very good, because they broaden the horizons of people who received education during the Soviet era. On the other hand, they are always - and readers' comments confirm this - they are also interested in the "living memories" of people about that era. After all, youth is a time when the trees were taller and the apples were sweeter, and the girls ... The girls all looked like Guljan from Solovyov's novel "Nasreddin in Bukhara", but not the same Guljan from the continuation of this book - "The Enchanted Prince ". Well - it's like an interesting example - whoever reads will not regret it, and ... will find out!

Some memories are very funny and revealing. It was not without reason that Pushkin said: “We all learned ... something and somehow". This is about our time. I wanted to find out what the essence of Trotskyism is, and not from the textbook "History of the CPSU", but from his own books "Judas Trotsky", but no - only in the special storage of "Leninka", and only if there is a form of admission to secret documents No. 2. That there is no way for students. If you want to read about the American BMP M2 - the magazine "Foreign Military Review" is at your service. This is for everyone. And not for everyone, but for a select few in the special storage of the same "Leninka" there was a book "banned" by the publishing house "Skvodron-Signal". I reread it all, becoming a graduate student with admission, and at first did not understand why she was banned. There is nothing about the USSR at all. And then I found a phrase and a cross next to it: “The fighting compartment of the Soviet BMP-1 is very cramped.". That is why! "We were scolded!"

And there was a lot more, as in Orwell's Animal Farm: “All animals are equal, but pigs are more equal than others!""A nobleman in case, even more so, not like another, and drank and ate differently!"- that is, someone was still" more equal "than others for many reasons. They could not, for example, do anything to the obvious enemy of the Soviet system (who loudly expressed his thoughts out loud!) To Academician Landau. Yes, and in our Penza Pedagogical University. V.G. Belinsky was a doctor of sciences, a professor, well, let's say - "with a bird's surname", who carried out excavations and wrote books, but also put a fair amount behind the collar. What his name was in fact, now does not matter, and he was not the worst person, but about the dead, or good, or nothing.

It is known that in Russia drunkenness, if not particularly encouraged, was in any case not punished, although there were exceptions. "I was drunk!" Is the best excuse of all time. That is, we had two laws: one for the sober, the other for the drunk. It didn't cost Ptitsyn anything to come to the lecture “on tour” and read it like this: “Hey you, patlataya! When did Batu come to Russia? Yeees? You fool, sit down and don't get up. Who knows what akinak is? A crooked sword? You yourself, a crooked sword ... Sit down, you fool! " And so in the same spirit. It is clear that we, freshmen in 1972, were simply stunned by this. Doctor of science, professor, and suddenly something like that ... Only one girl who had a "big shot" dad refused to answer him. And no one asked to go to the toilet and notify the dean's office about what was happening.

Not so now, even though our current education is criticized. Once we took a professional journalist to our department of PR and advertising: one of the modern requirements for higher education is the obligatory presence of practitioners from production among the staff of the department. In our case, these were practicing journalists, PR men, advertisers. And then one came "under the chauffeur" and ... he did not give his lecture for long. Immediately one of the students went, called the dean, he "sniffed" the lecturer, after which exactly 30 minutes later he was no longer working for us! And do not break the rules that you yourself signed.

In general, Ptitsyn got away with everything, because “there was no one to replace him”, and “cadres decide everything”. In addition, he was the only one who took students to an archaeological practice, where they dug and found something there, and then these finds ended up in the institute's archaeological museum.

It's time for summer practice for our group as well. And some remained to work in the archive, while others went to the "field". I was among them.

And then in the Penza region there was a very remote and rather "wild region" - Zemetchinsky. And that's where they took us. Doctor and senior lecturer without a degree. Two of a Kind. We set up a tent camp on the bank of the river. All around nature - I don’t want to admire! Here is water, here is a forest, here is a mountain ... Romance!

True, food needs to be cooked for 25 people on a fire, and not everyone really wanted to do this. Fortunately, I knew how to cook from early childhood, immediately offered my services as a cook, and so I remained in this position. This is how important it is for a man to be able to cook! Because ... we didn’t start doing anything interesting there, that is, excavations! And they began to make a dissertation for this second ... The essence of the work was that we brought with us rolls of questionnaires of rural citizens and it was necessary to write on them whether this or that citizen or citizen who lived in the village lowered his level of education in Soviet times or not raised. Nudyatina is still the same!

By God, it was easier for me personally to chop meat and cook stew than to mess with these papers and numbers.

How to have fun? And like this: not far away was the village "10th October". And our students, who were older and came to the university after the army, immediately went there with a can for moonshine. In our camp slang, it began to be called “to follow the legends,” they say, we also collect legends and write down folklore ... Well, on the very first evening we began a general drunkenness, in which our spiritual leaders and mentors took an active part. And they did not just accept, but drank themselves “to the position of the robe,” so that then they lay around like pigs in nettles, and other students, also in the appropriate condition, relieved them of a small need ...

In theory, of course, immediately after that it was necessary to pack up and go to the city, to the party committee of the institute. But ... that's not how we were brought up then to shove against the elders. They understood that they simply would not forgive us for such a demotion of a doctor of sciences, and there were still four years of study ahead! So none of us, non-drinkers, went anywhere. And he did the right thing, as it turned out. When a year later the story of the drunkenness of the students reached a discussion with the dean and the party organizer, and one of the students "remembered" who set an example for us, he was immediately told: "Everything that concerns students, you can say, but about the teachers it is better for you to keep quiet!"

And then it started raining and, as it turned out, our tents were set up incorrectly and they are flooded. Moreover, in one of them a can with "legends" was overturned, and it became completely impossible to be in it, and even close.

Here, fortunately, abandoned peasant houses and ... hidden in the woods, a very cozy Saturday and Sunday rest house for local leaders and the party elite were found nearby. The whole week it was empty, and on Saturday evenings the local authorities came there to have a rest and have fun "with women". There was only one caretaker there ... and we persuaded him to let us go there for the night on the condition that after us there would be complete order and ... clean bed linen.

Therefore, we slept there on top of blankets in all our ways, but since it was summer, we did not complain about the cold. It was a cozy place, you won’t say anything! With a billiards table, a Zilovsky refrigerator, a place for a barbecue - in a word, everything for the people, well, some particularly good part of it.

But on Saturday and Sunday it was necessary to leave it. And then we moved into empty houses and slept on ... Russian stoves, laying sleeping bags on the stones. In the morning, people began to gather in the empty camp ... for breakfast. And then they tried to disappear as soon as possible, just not to bother with these nasty figures - who raised their educational level, who lowered (and there were some, by the way!). Our "leaders" gathered us to work almost by force, but the forest is large, there are many abandoned houses ...

But what about the excavation? But in no way! Only at the end of the "season", literally two days before departure, did our leaders make a sortie to the rampart, which was quite far from us. There they dug something, found burnt coals and concluded that there was a wall on the rampart, and there were two towers near the passage in it, and all this burned down, but when - God knows. I myself did not go on this trip, I happily escaped this fate, because many students remained in the camp and it was necessary to feed them all.

We returned from this trip all angry and dissatisfied, and some simply hated each other. Then I really wanted to write about this "practice" in our regional newspaper, but did not write. I was afraid. And where is the guarantee that then all the students would unanimously confirm my words. After all, these two teachers had their favorites, who would have followed them, let's say - far away, besides, one of them was not an ordinary student, but the boss's son, in a word, all this would be dearer to himself in the end. And then I didn't have a camera to shoot all these drunken ugliness!

So when they talk to me about free Soviet education in higher education, then ... I am rather skeptical about talking about it as of high quality. Two drunkards with red noses were by no means suitable for educators of high communist morality, and it’s not for nothing that a number of our teachers of that time were brought up with personal files on the party line. And it is hardly only on our Penza "pedyushnik" that such a "cross of fate" came together. Surely the same took place in other educational institutions of the country. It simply could not but be within the framework of the system that existed at that time. So when some here on VO write that “they taught well then”, it only gives me a feeling of a certain doubt about the competence of the authors of such comments. They taught in every way. Somewhere good, yes, but somewhere ... they preferred "to follow the legends." By the way, the success of our children at the international Olympiads just speaks to the fact that even now they teach well somewhere. And someone is a good student himself! In this regard, absolutely nothing has changed in our country!

PS It is interesting that now there, near Zemetchino, in the surrounding villages, houses are being sold for 1,5 million rubles or less. The gardens are 16 acres or more, and everything grows there - just heaven on earth. All amenities, gas, water and more. The beauties of nature are simply marvelous. But they are selling. Probably, I don't want to live far from the "center".
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. kalibr
      9 January 2022 18: 52
      +13
      Quote: Aerodrome
      would you like satisfaction?

      Write something interesting on VO. Surely you have something to remember. It has been proven that a person with life experience can always write at least 1-2 interesting materials ...
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 9 January 2022 19: 32
        +17
        Surely you have something to remember. It has been proven that a person with life experience can always write at least 1-2 interesting materials.
        Do not be hard on us. It's just laziness, mother. There is something to remember, but to write laziness, again a screaming question - will anyone be interested in the memories of the last century to whom, many (we will all be there) contemporaries no longer exist, but young their interests, their memories. For example, I could easily write a whole cycle of stories about the naval service, but when it was, now it will be of little interest to anyone here - the twenty-first century in the yard, not the twentieth.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 9 January 2022 20: 04
          +15
          For example, I could easily write a whole cycle of stories about the naval service, but when it was, now it will be of little interest to anyone here - the twenty-first century in the yard, not the twentieth

          It will be very interesting, and for many, including the young. And then only professional "historians" write with a specific view of this or that period of time. This is how the designer Yakovlev wrote his "Purpose of Life" - even in the early 30s, A.M. Bitter. And he convinced the designer to write a book. It turned out to be very good, even Khrushchev Kukuruzny angered him in 1961.
          1. Crowe
            Crowe 9 January 2022 20: 19
            +13
            Danke Shen for the kind words, Sergei, but I just think that with my memories I will look here like a mammoth who accidentally wandered into a party of young wolves. Or like in that movie: The Wedding (comedy, directed by Isidor Annensky, 1944) - me one of the whole honest company is a sailor and will understand ... But why don't you write about aviation? Everyone dreams of heaven, even in our pragmatic century ...
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 9 January 2022 21: 28
              +13
              one of the honest company a sailor will understand me ... But why don't you write about aviation?

              Well, for the sailors and write. I, too, when I give lectures, so for several students who are interested and who ask questions. I am doing "heaven" too professionally, I have to write popular science. Here on the next branch (where about American nuclear weapons) I am now conducting educational work with one commentator who does not recognize Bernoulli's law. Hard. And I have written about studying at the institute, but the material I wrote for 30 years of graduation was put up by one figure on "Proza.ru", for this reason the material was not taken to VO, I offered. Memories are written for the living, come on.
              1. CHEREDA73
                CHEREDA73 10 January 2022 00: 35
                +7
                Here on the next branch (where about American nuclear weapons) I am now conducting educational work with one commentator who does not recognize Bernoulli's law. Hard.

                That's in vain. You can explain something to a person whose level allows you to perceive what is being explained to him. And if they do not perceive the laws of physics, then it is better to stop right away. You can just as well explain something to the statue.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 January 2022 08: 19
                  +7
                  But what if his brains turn on? It looked like a statue, though.
                  1. CHEREDA73
                    CHEREDA73 11 January 2022 00: 26
                    +4
                    How can you deny Bernoulli's law!?!?
                    You were out of luck with your opponent ...
                    Some people think that such laws can be perfectly reviewed by a "parliamentary majority" lol
                    1. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 11 January 2022 08: 09
                      +4
                      How can you deny Bernoulli's law!?!?

                      It looks like the bot was training on science questions.
          2. kalibr
            9 January 2022 21: 18
            -2
            Quote: Aviator_
            This is how the designer Yakovlev wrote his "Purpose of Life" - even in the early 30s, A.M. Bitter. And he convinced the designer to write a book. It turned out to be very good, even Khrushchev Kukuruzny angered him in 1961.

            The good one, where he remembers his childhood. And then it went: in one hallelujah Stalin, in the "Stories of an Aircraft Designer" hallelujah Khrushchev, in "The Purpose of Life" after Khrushchev - hallelujah Brezhnev. I've read all three and anyone can read them now. That is, again - he built good planes and flexibly fluctuated along with the party line. Very flexible! The presentation changed very clearly ...
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 9 January 2022 22: 10
              +5
              And then it went: in one hallelujah Stalin, in the "Stories of an Aircraft Designer" hallelujah Khrushchev, in "The Purpose of Life" after Khrushchev - hallelujah Brezhnev.

              Aren't you afraid of what will turn out to be like with the "Short Course of VKPB?" Or does the amount of comments make your pocket feel nice?
              1. kalibr
                10 January 2022 08: 01
                -7
                Quote: Aviator_
                Or does the amount of comments make your pocket feel nice?

                First of all, the number of views, Sergey: Just look at the furor created by the Dardik pistol, and the Hungarian rifle did not disappoint ...
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 January 2022 08: 24
                  +5
                  First of all, the number of views, Sergey: Just look at the furor created by the Dardik pistol, and the Hungarian rifle did not disappoint ...
                  So I would only write about this, I would remain a respected person by all. And so - some kind of masochism.
                  1. kalibr
                    10 January 2022 08: 45
                    -8
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    would remain a person respected by all.

                    And I don't need the respect of mentally retarded people. Even in the USSR I tried not to fool around, and now I don't see any reason to bend under them at all.
            2. victor50
              victor50 9 January 2022 22: 53
              +6
              Quote: kalibr
              And then it went: in one hallelujah Stalin, in the "Stories of an Aircraft Designer" hallelujah Khrushchev, in "The Purpose of Life" after Khrushchev - hallelujah Brezhnev.

              Who would talk about it! You so right in front of all the rulers and systems of the truth and cut the uterus. I had a diploma supervisor not like you, not a party worker, secretary of the Komsomol city committee, so he made me look for at least some Brezhnev quote and insert it into my diploma. Although to this side of life L.I. certainly had nothing to do with it. But some slogan had to be inserted, and then removed - Leonid Ilyich died. And you didn’t advise anyone of this kind in your positions, did you? And didn't you insert the necessary quotations into the lectures? lol
              1. kalibr
                10 January 2022 07: 57
                -5
                Quote: victor50
                You so right in front of all the rulers and systems of the truth and cut the uterus.

                No. On the contrary, until the 91st he said only what he was ordered ... And he thought he was told. There were no alternative sources of information.
                1. victor50
                  victor50 10 January 2022 08: 16
                  +5
                  Quote: kalibr
                  On the contrary, until the 91st he said only what he was ordered ... And he thought he was told. There were no alternative sources of information.

                  And then suddenly 91 and alternative sources came along. laughing How did he come without them ?! lol The whole country knew and understood everything, only party workers of any level "did not have alternative sources of information" winked
                  1. kalibr
                    10 January 2022 08: 21
                    -7
                    Quote: victor50
                    The whole country knew and understood everything, only party workers of any level "did not have alternative sources of information"

                    If the country, Victor, knew and understood everything, we would still live in the USSR today. Think ... And besides, "knowing" at the philistine level is one thing. At the level of a scientist, it is quite different. Explained easily?
                    1. victor50
                      victor50 10 January 2022 11: 27
                      +7
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Available explained?

                      shifty. What kind of scientific knowledge did you lack to get your current position ?! lol Were you afraid to lose a good place? This is a rhetorical question, there is no need to answer. I will not read, it is not interesting, and there is no need to increase the "investment attractiveness" of your publications. And so overdid it! laughing
                      1. kalibr
                        10 January 2022 12: 32
                        -7
                        Quote: victor50
                        And so overdid it!

                        "He will not leave our clutches, said the winged baobab."
                      2. kalibr
                        10 January 2022 12: 35
                        -7
                        Quote: victor50
                        What kind of scientific knowledge did you lack to get your current position ?!

                        There are many, Victor. Very! For example, I did not know anything about the Pareto law and did not read the book by A. Bogdanov "Red Star".
                      3. Kwas
                        Kwas 11 January 2022 19: 25
                        +4
                        Hmmm, I would say that the "Pareto law" is on the same intellectual level with the "sandwich law". Well, that is, yes, it is certainly a revelation for those who do not know anything about the parameters of the statistical distribution.
                      4. kalibr
                        11 January 2022 20: 02
                        -4
                        Quote: Kwas
                        Hmmm, I would say that the "Pareto law" is on the same intellectual level with the "sandwich law". Well, that is, yes, it is certainly a revelation for those who do not know anything about the parameters of the statistical distribution.

                        I don't care where he is and at what level. He works and makes a profit. This is the main thing.
                      5. Kwas
                        Kwas 12 January 2022 12: 06
                        +3
                        Correction - it SOMETIMES works and makes a profit.
              2. kalibr
                10 January 2022 07: 58
                -5
                Quote: victor50
                And didn't you insert the necessary quotations into the lectures?

                From 1982 to 1991 he inserted regularly. Both of us, which means both Yakovlev and I are one pair of boots.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 January 2022 08: 29
                  +5
                  Both of us, which means both Yakovlev and I are one pair of boots.

                  Do not cling to an aircraft designer. And in general, without scans from books with his praises to Khrushchev and Brezhnev, this remains the usual nonsense of a liberal-piarast.
                  1. kalibr
                    10 January 2022 08: 41
                    -3
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    And in general, without scans from books with his praises to Khrushchev and Brezhnev, this remains the usual nonsense of a liberal-piarast.

                    "Give only a time limit, you will have a squirrel, and there will be a whistle!" And don't poke me, Sergei. It is not polite. And you and I must set an example for others.
            3. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 9 January 2022 23: 28
              +3
              Still, for a start, I would like to scan about
              in "Stories of an Aircraft Designer" Hallelujah Khrushchev
              Or will it be like with a tank last winter?
              1. kalibr
                10 January 2022 07: 55
                -6
                Quote: Aviator_
                Still, for a start, I would like to scan about
                in "Stories of an Aircraft Designer" Hallelujah Khrushchev
                Or will it be like with a tank last winter?

                I think it will not be a scan, but an article with excerpts from his books over the years. It will be more useful and interesting this way. But you have to wait a bit.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 January 2022 08: 23
                  +3
                  I have no doubts about your interpretation. As illustrations, a scan with Yakovlev's praises of Khrushchev and Brezhnev should be attached
                  1. kalibr
                    10 January 2022 08: 43
                    -4
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    As illustrations, a scan with Yakovlev's praises of Khrushchev and Brezhnev should be attached

                    You will see. Have patience. Why are you in such a hurry? All will be.
            4. Penelope
              Penelope 10 January 2022 10: 58
              +3
              ibko hesitated along with the party line.
              therefore I did not sit in the camps and did not work in the sharashka. As well as Ilyushin, Lavochkin and Mikoyan.
          3. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 9 January 2022 22: 07
            +1
            My respect, Sergey!
            I would like to note that there are only two professional historians on this resource.
        2. kalibr
          9 January 2022 21: 23
          +2
          Quote: Crowe
          Don't be hard on us.

          What are you, Great Leader, am I strict? I'm just suggesting. Often a person does not even think about what he can. And if you tell him, it changes his fate, or at least brings moments of joy. Think about it. But no - well, no. Everything will remain as it is and will not get worse. Better too, though.
        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 9 January 2022 22: 00
          -2
          Yes, crap that's all! Simply, everyone is afraid to turn the past and the soul out, for review. Shpakovsky also did not immediately manage.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 9 January 2022 22: 16
            +7
            Anton, hello!
            He does not turn his soul inside out, but tries to spoil others. Almost 50 years have passed and he remembered about a teacher prone to abuse. How do you know these are not his fantasies? And how did he conduct himself on this expedition? And for what such merits he was accepted as a member of the CPSU at the university? But here the soul does not break.
            Slimy type. Frefe!
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 9 January 2022 22: 27
              +1
              Hi Sasha!
              Well, I talked a little with Shpakovsky, and I know that in financial matters, he is honest to the smallest detail ... Can you trust him?
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 9 January 2022 22: 30
                +3
                Of course not! Petty, insignificant person! There is no breadth, no soul, no life. Wise minnow!
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 9 January 2022 22: 37
                  0
                  Sasha, you fall into "panikovshchina": "You are a miserable, insignificant person!"
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 9 January 2022 22: 38
                    +2
                    About this drinks
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 9 January 2022 22: 42
                      0
                      Your right. hi
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 9 January 2022 22: 43
                        +3
                        This is a classic, no shame.
            2. kalibr
              10 January 2022 06: 35
              -1
              Quote: ee2100
              And for what such merits did he become a member of the CPSU at the university?

              Another "Mordvin" with a bad memory. Not in a university, in a rural school, as one of the best teachers in the area.
            3. kalibr
              10 January 2022 06: 37
              -2
              Quote: ee2100
              How do you know these are not his fantasies?

              There are witnesses in the photo. It did not occur to you that they are alive, except for one, with a guitar, like a monkey. And besides them, there are 20 more people and all of them can use the Internet. And can they read it? Didn't such a thought enter your brain?
          2. dauria
            dauria 10 January 2022 00: 54
            +6
            everyone is afraid to turn the past and the soul out, for review. Shpakovsky also did not immediately manage.

            Shpakovsky twisted his soul? laughing "Look, how beautiful and clean she is ..." Not everyone can turn out their souls, not only on VO for readers, but even for themselves, before they die.
            But what the Russian people are right about "Since a man does not drink, then either he is sick or nits"
    2. Terenin
      Terenin 9 January 2022 18: 55
      +6
      Quote: Aerodrome
      A story about an archaeological practitioner
      у
      So when they talk to me about free Soviet education in higher education, then ... I am rather skeptical about talking about it as of high quality. Two drunkards with red noses were by no means suitable for educators of high communist morality,
      Slavik sounds disgusting ... you were out of luck with the teachers ... or they are with you ... you are also a victim, drunkards with a cane and in top hats ... well, you didn’t get to them .. they were crunching at that time French rolls ", but you do not ... alas. and here is the result: a boor ... who imagines himself to be a master, because how can a "foreigner" go and sing about beautiful knives? I think you sometimes did not differ from your "teachers" also had a red nose, and a nasty exhaust. you, disappeared for me as a publicist, you-. would you like satisfaction? at any time, by any ... means. no? Well, go ahead then ...



      Maybe the essence of "I'll tell you even in 50 years, everything will get better" is as follows:
      kalibr (Vyacheslav)
      Yesterday, 22: 10

      Quote: Bond James Bond
      So why are you continuing this nonsense?

      Squeeze comments out of you! The more there are, the higher the investment attractiveness of the site!

      And, the Penza archaeological school is not bad. An example of this is the excavations of the Zolotarevskoye settlement (settlement).
      1. kalibr
        9 January 2022 19: 14
        -4
        Quote: Terenin
        An example of this is the excavations of the Zolotarevskoye settlement (settlement).

        So after all, I'm not writing about Professor Belorybkin. Not everyone was like him ...
        1. Terenin
          Terenin 9 January 2022 21: 40
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          Quote: Terenin
          An example of this is the excavations of the Zolotarevskoye settlement (settlement).

          So after all, I'm not writing about Professor Belorybkin. Not everyone was like him ...

          Not only Gennady Belorybkin, including Vladimir Vyacheslavovich Stavitsky ... about those times about which you write, an employee of the Penza Museum of Local Lore Mikhail Romanovich Polesskikh worked with his (students) interesting excavations, before him Nona Ivanovna Sprygina, it was generally a legend world class. They have achieved truly colossal successes in their field.

          It is not clear, Vyacheslav, what did you find there for yourself, who even managed to spill moonshine request
          1. kalibr
            9 January 2022 21: 51
            -6
            Quote: Terenin
            what did you find there for yourself, who even managed to spill moonshine

            Everything in the photo. But this is not my company, I didn’t drink moonshine either then or after. And I communicated with them only when necessary. After all, we studied in the same groups.
            1. Terenin
              Terenin 9 January 2022 22: 13
              +4
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: Terenin
              what did you find there for yourself, who even managed to spill moonshine

              Everything in the photo. But this is not my company, I didn’t drink moonshine either then or after. And I communicated with them only when necessary.

              While it is incorrect to display their photos without their permission in the topics for discussion. It is fraught with them to run into ... violation of Article 152.1. Civil Code of the Russian Federation Protection of the citizen's image

              Nobody will complain about this photo of archaeologists. No.
    3. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 9 January 2022 19: 09
      +7
      I was lucky not to meet alcoholics in Soviet education. The teachers were good, they loved the children. But no one managed to interest children in political information. Or a report on Lenin's topics ... Everything was mired in dogmas ... Problems were hushed up ... or they said that there are still shortcomings ... it was called self-criticism, they usually forgot about self-punishment
  2. ee2100
    ee2100 9 January 2022 18: 23
    +17
    It is a pity for the shpakovskys, youth and youth were spent under the USSR. Best years! Naturally, everything was and was vajako, but the memory is selective - remember only the good ones.
    VOSH wants to prove that he only remembers the negative.
    Forward! I wonder how his soul lives?
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 9 January 2022 19: 48
      +5
      Quote: ee2100
      It is a pity for the shpakovskys, youth and youth were spent under the USSR. Best years! Naturally, everything was and was vajako, but the memory is selective - remember only the good ones.

      Anyone else, but I was probably more fortunate than Vyacheslav, because I didn’t have to experience such go ... ootism during my studies, and such a teacher who fell to the level of a village drunkard teacher. Although it may be because I studied in Leningrad. But I think other participants will confirm that there were decent educational institutions and teachers in other cities and regions.
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 9 January 2022 21: 24
        +7
        At our faculty, a teacher of the history of the CRS, a professor, a veteran of Stalingrad, an order bearer, the only one who sometimes allowed himself to smoke through the window, he smoked a fragrant golden fleece and is always shaved, ironed, if a student with uniforms is beautiful, and a transparent blouse, 5 points right away, but we were scared ...
      2. Kwas
        Kwas 9 January 2022 21: 46
        +7
        Quote: tihonmarine
        But I think other participants will confirm that there were decent educational institutions and teachers in other cities and regions.

        I confirm. Faculty of Physics of Tashkent State University!
        And Vyacheslav is really worth pitying.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 9 January 2022 22: 24
          +3
          Pity the wolf mare ...
      3. ee2100
        ee2100 9 January 2022 22: 07
        +7
        For the life lived there was everything. There were teachers at the university who promised that I would not finish it. But this is not a reason to throw mud at everyone. Yes, I didn’t come across the drunkard’s teachers, but we had one Ph.D. about which we always remember and laugh!
        There were rumors that the teachers pestered the girls, it is quite real. But our ladies also wore mini-skirts for exams for a reason. No one has thought about the Weinstein case yet.
        The fish rots from the head. The fact that the negative was not stuck out is true.
        But the author did not succeed in looking for anti-Sovietism in everyday drunkenness. He would have remained a cook, you see, and enriched the national cuisine. And so is a former communist, crap on his past, considering himself a historian and a PR man.
        In general, intelligence in the last generation.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 9 January 2022 22: 12
          +10
          Did you expect something different from Shpakovsky? He rolls around the world, and talks about the backward scoop, and the superiority of capitalism over socialism. What else can he write? The same as Dud, only an adult.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 9 January 2022 22: 27
            +5
            Not an adult, but aged!
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 9 January 2022 22: 01
      +2
      Quote: ee2100
      VOSH wants to prove that he only remembers the negative.
      Forward! I wonder how his soul lives?

      I'm also damn interesting. As far as I can analyze others, negative people, whiners with complaints are the most unhappy and part-time sick, often alcoholics or drug addicts. Fortunately, there are not many of them, at least in my environment. Or am I staying away from them?
  3. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 9 January 2022 18: 23
    +16
    So when some here on VO write that “they taught well then”, it only gives me a feeling of a certain doubt about the competence of the authors of such comments.

    Doubt is your right. And mine too. I have no doubts about your education. And I have no doubts about my education. We were taught at FALT MIPT by teachers who had previously worked on the Atomic Project, and the majority, in accordance with the profile of the faculty, were the creators of jet aviation since the 40s of the last century and directly working in the aerospace field in the 70s, TsAGI employees, LII and CIAM. Our dean - Simonov Lev Alekseevich - was in his youth in the commission for the reception of DneproGES. So we were taught really well.
    1. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 9 January 2022 18: 54
      +12
      Quote: Aviator_
      So we were taught really well.

      - the first artificial satellite of the Earth;
      - the first man in space;
      - the first lunar rover;
      - the first orbital stations Mir and Salyut;
      - "Buran":
      - the first nuclear power plant;
      - the first nuclear-powered icebreaker;
      - TU-104; TU-144, "Mriya"; MIG-25; MIG-31
      - "Satan"
      - BELAZ;
      - atomic, hydrogen, neutron bomb ...
      So offhand, this is a Soviet education.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 9 January 2022 19: 46
        +5
        I did not participate in anything from your list. I had a Su-27, Yak-141, Il-96, and an Angara launch vehicle, which had some problems with aerodynamics at the launch site.
      2. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 9 January 2022 20: 11
        +9
        Truly so, but nevertheless. And this paradox has an explanation - at some stage of its development, the USSR was a fairly progressive country (and in the educational direction), but the beauty of the system is that it is not static - it either evolves or degrades. And the people who worked on most of these technical products are the fruits of the Soviet education of a rather narrow time period, during which they released an array of high-quality specialists, and more or less suitable bureaucracy for them. In subsequent issues, the bureaucracy has already "gone", then other specialties due to the growing incompetence of the bureaucracy, and then everything began to roll - because the trick of successful activity, in addition to direct hands, also implies good planning.
        The Second World War very well combed the management cadres, but the very system of their selection in peacetime (including for political reasons) was extremely flawed, and this potentially invaluable foundation is almost completely eroded by the end of the 60s. The concentration of high-class specialists in individual industries is no longer a solution, because coordination between industries is built by the bureaucracy. The percentage of poorly trained personnel across the spectrum of all professions, unfortunately, has been steadily growing - this, in my opinion, is the main disadvantage of Soviet education. Having an excellent experience of becoming in the past, they could not develop this experience into the future.
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 9 January 2022 21: 17
        +1
        Anatoly. hi
        Also the first manned spacewalk, and photographs of the far side of the moon.
        I am already silent about such our development as a completely revolutionary type of infantry weapons, the BMP-1 - "a chariot of nuclear war." smile
    2. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 9 January 2022 19: 12
      +12
      Quote: Aviator_
      At FALT MIPT we were taught by teachers who had previously worked on the Atomic Project

      The eternal dispute between physicists and lyricists. Some did business, others "went for legends," but since the lyricists, on average, are better at the pen, and they have more free time, their point of view is wider. request
      And by the way, it has always been this way
      - Nonsense faculty? What the hell is there higher! To memorize and pass ten textbooks - that's all your ... education. I knew law students: all four years they talked about thugs, leaflets, conferences, excite ...
      ... - I want to say, - the doctor corrected himself, - if you studied medicine or engineering, you would know how much each exam is. And you can't fold your hands with positive knowledge - you have to work. Russia needs workers, workers.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 9 January 2022 19: 52
        +4
        The eternal dispute between physicists and lyricists.

        Yes, of course, but competent humanitarians are also needed. Unfortunately, there it was necessary to loudly swear in love for the native Communist Party from all tribunes, so "what has grown has grown." A technical education would be about the same if it required to swear loyalty to the Special Theory of Relativity or Maxwell's Equations in the environment. Fortunately, there was a need for a Deed, although the loafers who settled in were also encountered. Usually they clustered in the party-trade-union-Komsomol activists.
      2. Kwas
        Kwas 9 January 2022 21: 08
        +7
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        The eternal dispute between physicists and lyricists.

        That's who, I wonder, was the first to think that the so-called. are the "humanities" lyricists? It seems to me that it was one of them. Because otherwise, about many of them, one should say "these are those who do not want and do not know how to work with their hands, but their heads are not very good either ..."
        I also like the saying that we used at the faculty: "sciences are natural, unnatural and unnatural"!
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 9 January 2022 21: 19
        +3
        Good evening, Ivan. hi
        For girls, all humanities departments were called "Faculties of Brides". wink
    3. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 9 January 2022 19: 28
      +12
      There were legends about MIPT in my time, one of the best technical universities in the country! In most others, it was enough to enter and then just not play the fool. Most of our guys honestly admitted that they did it so as not to go to the army. Real knowledge was received by those who wanted, the rest studied according to the principle passed - forgot. MATI 1977-1982.
      CIAM is a native company, 25 years in it!
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 9 January 2022 19: 57
        +2
        I had an opponent from CIAM on my defense, Professor Shulgin, 1990. Didn't overlap? The good man is probably dead already.
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 9 January 2022 20: 01
          +2
          CIAM is very large, plus two sites. Alas, it did not intersect.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 9 January 2022 20: 07
            +3
            CIAM is very large, plus two sites.

            Are you talking about Turaevo? There I debugged the hardware some time ago. And in comparison with TsAGI and with LII (I'm not talking about GkNIPAS), it is small - after all, Moscow.
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov 9 January 2022 20: 14
              +5
              Of course, TsAGI is larger, but by the end of the 80s, more than 5000 people worked at Aviamotornaya. Now CIAM is a ruin, in a figurative sense, of course. If not for the presence of a common fence with the Lefortovo prison, it was already sold out for 20 years.
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 9 January 2022 20: 20
                +7
                It seems that Lefortovo Prison really protects this Moscow block from the sale. Otherwise they would have thrown out like KB Mil from Sokolniki, and like Khrunichev thrown out of Filia. You at CIAM regularly attended the seminars of G.N. Abramovich while he was alive (late 70s-first half of 80s). It was very interesting. And your canteen in the 80s was cheap and tasty. Well, what is 5000 - in TsAGI now about the same, together with the Moscow site, and once - in 1985 - there were almost 15000. In general, LII is melancholy - according to rumors, they want to shove Marshal Taburetkin there. One hope - not all rumors come true.
                1. Sergey Valov
                  Sergey Valov 9 January 2022 21: 10
                  +4
                  But I knew Abramovich, he was sitting in the next office. As far as they were thrown out, it was not so with us - the management itself wanted to privatize and disperse CIAM, and then sell the area, but it did not grow together, they limited themselves to leasing the area.
                  1. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 9 January 2022 23: 01
                    +5
                    It seems that Volodya Babkin was at one time your director. I knew him well too. And Vitka Mileshin (you have the head of the department), being a student when playing cards, always cheated, for which he received the official nickname "Rogue". Now he is completely bald. We meet at the course meetings every 5 years. And Genrikh Naumovich Abramovich, in addition to his famous textbook "Applied Gas Dynamics" in 1945, traveled to different zones of German occupation in one team with Korolev and collected everything on German engines that the Americans did not manage to collect. By the way, everywhere an ejector is called an ejector, and only in TsIAM - an exhauster. German footprint!
                    1. Sergey Valov
                      Sergey Valov 9 January 2022 23: 57
                      +3
                      Under Babkin, I hardly worked, I went on free bread (they paid too little, our stand was out of work for years). Mileshin's surname is familiar, did he not work for Belokon?
                      Does the surname Klyachko tell you anything?
                      1. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 10 January 2022 08: 15
                        +4
                        No, I don’t know Klyachko. Babkin died, although he was a year younger than me. His job was significantly different from mine - to withstand all these assaults from above. Where Mileshin works specifically, I don't know, maybe at Belokon.
  4. Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 9 January 2022 18: 37
    +8
    “That is, it’s not for students in any way” is how to approach a problem. To begin with, students were simply not enrolled in Leninka, but I went there while still in school (in the early 70s). I went to the special store when I was a student and without any form of secrecy, I just had to bring a letter from the dean's office with a request to get acquainted with the literature on "such and such" topic, and then order whatever I found in the catalog.
    1. Kwas
      Kwas 9 January 2022 21: 40
      +5
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      That is, it is not for students in any way.

      The fact is that this is a proprietary feature of the author: "And I read that it was not available to anyone, and when I read this, the hair on my head began to move and still move, but you do not understand this, so I and I won't tell you! "
      1. kalibr
        9 January 2022 21: 58
        -6
        Are you saying, Constantine, that in the 70s you could have read Trotsky and the same Orwell in English?
        1. Kwas
          Kwas 10 January 2022 07: 21
          +3
          In the 70s I was still small (born in 1966), I read only Freud (by the way, I could in English, but why, when there is a translation), and Trotsky was of little interest to me further. Orwell, in my opinion, was translated quite well, he used to scoff at the "animal farm" (or "barnyard"). By the way, only recently I realized (at the suggestion of Klim Zhukov) that Comrade Orwell's views are purely Trotskyists - which explained a lot.
          1. kalibr
            10 January 2022 07: 52
            -1
            Quote: Kwas
            with the filing of Klim Zhukov

            I try to count only from my own filing. You should, Constantine, read his Revolution Betrayed yourself. After all, neither Zhukov nor I possess omniscience. Only a person himself can decide for himself ... Orwell was well translated, but when?
            1. Kwas
              Kwas 10 January 2022 22: 17
              +1
              Orwell came to me at the end of the 80s, saw Trotsky several times on the ruins, took in his hands (for curious), leafed through ... and put back. How can I explain to you, this was after the hobby for exposing had passed. After all, if you look at what is Trotsky's essence? I would like to arrange a "world revolution" with myself, my beloved, at the head, but I didn’t. Well, let's anoint with dirt and shit those who are guilty of this, first of all ISA. And if I didn't want to, it would be better not to start, but to live under the good old capitalism. And he seems to have no "positive program" at all. Well, that's not interesting to me. And the same pessimism and inconsistencies in Orwell. This has to do with Klim - just before I noticed psychological and ideological inconsistencies in him, but I could not explain their reason, and after literally a couple of Klimov's phrases, everything fell into place.
              1. kalibr
                11 January 2022 07: 33
                -4
                Quote: Kwas
                After all, if you look at what is Trotsky's essence?

                That is not the point! So they say. In fact, everything is different. Bogdanov wrote about the same in Krasnaya Zvezda. Have you read this novel?
                1. Kwas
                  Kwas 11 January 2022 12: 25
                  +1
                  In recent years, I generally read little art literature, not that on principle, just life, economics, politics, psychology, history, philosophy ... more interesting than fictions. But if you discerned a different essence in Trotsky, I will be glad to hear briefly the essence of his positive program. What exactly good was he going to do with human society.
                  1. kalibr
                    11 January 2022 13: 35
                    -2
                    A. Bogdanov wrote "The Red Star" in 1908. It is rather a philosophical novel. Lenin, by the way, spoke well of him. But he argued with Bogdanov. And he left the Bolshevik work, took up the problems of blood transfusion, created the institute and died, putting the experience on himself.
                    As for Trotsky, you have to read it yourself, especially The Revolution Betrayed. It's not about what to do with people, but about why everything will end in collapse in the USSR. And, by the way, on the last two pages of the "Summary Course on the History of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks," Stalin is arguing with him and ... it turns out that Trotsky was right. Read the last two pages of the "Short Course ...".
                    1. Kwas
                      Kwas 11 January 2022 19: 34
                      +2
                      A-aa, I remembered! Yes, I have Bogdanov downloaded and next in line, but not in the top ten. And about Trotsky, you actually confirm my words. That is, not constructive, but "I don’t know yak, but not like that!" Or did he give any advice?
                      1. kalibr
                        11 January 2022 19: 36
                        -3
                        Quote: Kwas
                        Or did he give any advice?

                        This is too serious a topic for me to answer in a nutshell. It's not about the advice ... he saw what was happening in the system's cancers and wrote about it. Others either did not see, or did not want to see, or were afraid. That is, roughly speaking, he foresaw that 91 is inevitable. This already says a lot.
                      2. Kwas
                        Kwas 12 January 2022 12: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        what happens in the cancers of the system

                        This is what?
                        That he could have foreseen what happened after 1953, I personally deeply doubt, but you almost persuaded me to look through this work more carefully, despite the gag reflexes. After all, even in a deeply false and erroneous book, you can find something rational. Downloaded, as always, several things at once - here he is pissed!
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 10 January 2022 08: 40
          +2
          Vyacheslav, your "knowledge" of English has long been known to everyone. And how to read with such knowledge of Orwell?
          1. kalibr
            11 January 2022 07: 41
            -4
            Quote: Aviator_
            Vyacheslav, your "knowledge" of English has long been known to everyone.

            There is no need to refer to everyone, Sergei, when you write another nonsense. I have written 4 books in English and God knows how many articles. And yes, there were mistakes in them, but the British edited them and ... published them, but no one complained that the text was written very badly. Vice versa. And two or three mistakes for 1600 materials is, you know, the norm. It could have been more. And reading is much easier than writing. I can't post scans from articles in confirmation, it was a long time ago. But there are books on the Osprey website and if you are interested, you can go to E-lab (you know, of course, what it is) and there, in addition to my scientific articles in Russian, there are also in English, from publications in different countries.
            1. kalibr
              11 January 2022 13: 38
              -4
              Oh, two cretins put downsides. I hope that you, Sergey, are not among them? Do you, of course, know what E-lab is and have repeatedly used it?
  5. AUL
    AUL 9 January 2022 18: 46
    +13
    You know, in my youth, from the summer after the 4th grade to the summer after the 10th grade (after the 11th grade, in 66 I entered the institute), I also spent on archaeological expeditions, both on excavations and on exploration. They dug mainly early iron, Scythian burial mounds and Mesolithic / Neolithic. And, I must say, we had nothing to do with the above. Apparently, this is 100% dependent on the leader of the expedition. I was lucky to work under the leadership of A.E. Alikhova, Symonovich, Puzikova and my father. Of course, we also had "campaigns for legends" (but secretly and without excesses), and severe showdowns with the locals (mainly because of our girls), but these were rare isolated episodes. And there were always more people wishing to get to the archaeological practice than vacancies. Both among students and among high school students.
    If I had the gift of God for memoirs - I could write a lot about it. But alas ...
    1. kalibr
      9 January 2022 19: 18
      0
      Quote: AUL
      If I had the gift of God for memoirs - I could write a lot about it. But alas ...

      Don't say "alas" - just try it. The eyes are afraid, but the hands are doing. Just ... tell us what was interesting, and ... that's it!
      1. helvetic
        helvetic 9 January 2022 20: 17
        +9
        I have read these memoirs, and I think the very fact of their publication makes it possible to doubt the need to persist so much in presenting your memoirs on paper.
        1. kalibr
          9 January 2022 20: 36
          -6
          Quote: helvetic
          the very fact of their publication raises doubts about the need to persist so much in presenting their memories on paper.

          Is yours, Vladimir, even worse?
      2. helvetic
        helvetic 9 January 2022 20: 24
        +6
        Considering that most of the readers do not have their own field experience, this text. in fact, discredits in their eyes both the "field" as such, and humanitarian education. The funny thing is that, in my experience, there is nothing more difficult than a "field", where work, for a number of reasons, must be combined with "libations". And it is difficult to overestimate the uniqueness of the data that is obtained during many hours of feasts, interspersed with multi-day routes. And here ... it is very modern and, at the same time, in a perestroika way - "practice without drying out."
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 9 January 2022 19: 32
      +2
      Quote: AUL
      They dug mainly early iron, Scythian burial mounds and Mesolithic / Neolithic. And, I must say, nothing to do with the above, we did not have

      I confirm.
      We dug all working day with a break for a hearty collective farm lunch.
      Rare partying on weekends.

      But it was a real archaeological expedition. Non-student practice.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 9 January 2022 23: 33
      +3
      Quote: AUL
      If I had the gift of God for memoirs - I could write a lot about it. But alas ...
      Here is the same "illness" with memoirs. but I could have written a lot about the fleet, I sent two articles, accused that only 16% are interested in such a topic, and even for the fact that they wrote a professional holiday with a capital letter, they called them illiterate. In general, they have discouraged writing for the rest of their lives.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 10 January 2022 08: 43
        +4
        Here is the same "illness" with memoirs. but I could have written a lot about the fleet, I sent two articles, accused that only 16% are interested in such a topic, and even for the fact that they wrote a professional holiday with a capital letter, they called them illiterate.
        The editorial board has its own policy here, please note - some time ago they complained about the lack of funds, then they stopped it - therefore, a sponsor appeared. These are his precepts and are true now.
        1. kalibr
          11 January 2022 07: 51
          -3
          Quote: Aviator_
          These are his precepts and are true now.

          And not just a sponsor, Sergey! It’s me who bring money to VO with suitcases from ... Venice. From ... a British intelligence agency. Why do you think they publish me regularly? That is why. We meet in the Doge's palace, in the arsenal, the password is: "You have to be a carnival in a Pierrot costume, you would be fine!" and a tip: "Yes, and my wife is in a Columbine costume." Everything is simple, as you can see. But you will not be able to stop it, even if you contact the Penza FSB. All my former students are there ...
        2. kalibr
          11 January 2022 07: 55
          -3
          Quote: Aviator_
          I sent two articles, accused that only 16% are interested in such a topic, and even for the fact that they wrote a professional holiday with a capital letter, they called them illiterate.

          It's a shame, you know! I tried, but they, you understand, do not print, Reptiloid-Dmitry, you understand, approved, but they are not!
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 11 January 2022 08: 13
            0
            It's a shame, you know!

            Well, what have I got to do with it? Someone else wrote about 16%, not me.
            1. kalibr
              11 January 2022 08: 26
              -3

              Then I'm sorry, I didn't understand. It's just that Dima-Reptiloid once wrote that you gave him his own memoirs to read and he really liked it. This is what I remember. Apparently overlooked at the top who owns what. Sorry again.
  6. Korsar4
    Korsar4 9 January 2022 18: 51
    +6
    There are specialties where without field practice - nowhere. And practically in all universities that came across, places of practice are fanned by local legends. And even now, you get up on a country road to the base - it grabs you with a good heart.
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 9 January 2022 18: 52
    +7
    How young we were and ... the grass was greener!
    The question is, how were we taught then ???
    They taught well!
    If you recall, of all the teachers inclined to ... in short, inclined, I remembered only one, BUT, he gave the subject, qualitatively ... P&A, not the simplest discipline, but theory of electron-hole transition. I still remember, although I never worked on the development of semiconductor devices, then.
    Oh, yes, even at the department I worked part-time as a laboratory assistant and he taught me how to play films in the cinema hall of the Polytechnic ... also a useful experience !!! Then, when I got to the "fight with the harvest" I had to work as a projectionist, instead of the always "tired" local! It was fun!!!
    1. Kwas
      Kwas 9 January 2022 21: 36
      +2
      Quote: rocket757
      If you remember, of all teachers inclined to ...

      I also remembered only one, and then he did it only when he was picking cotton. But he taught - ogogo! As a result, math analysis is the favorite math course of the first two years.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 9 January 2022 21: 52
        0
        By the way, working in the fields, it was generally fun .... here's a table and a snack, you could always buy an intoxicating drink in the general store ... only they had to send someone more representative, otherwise the sellers were forbidden to boil the students with intoxicants !!!
  8. Undecim
    Undecim 9 January 2022 18: 59
    +11
    So when some here on VO write that “they taught well then”, it only gives me a feeling of a certain doubt about the competence of the authors of such comments.

    Actually, in the article itself and the answer to doubts, already at the very beginning.
    Interestingly, none of those who came to this photo, at the school constantly worked after graduating from the university, including the guys from the village.

    There were people for whom "it is not important what to finish, it is important where to get a job." I needed a diploma. Therefore, the drunken teachers arranged for everyone and idleness instead of practice.
    In this regard, the problem of the Soviet system of higher education was that random people got into universities. There was no professional selection as such.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 9 January 2022 19: 23
      +13
      It is interesting to know your opinion, Viktor Nikolaevich: what, now, in the post-Soviet space
      random people got to universities. There was no professional selection, as such
      This is not the case?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 9 January 2022 19: 40
        +10
        I would like to know your opinion

        Things are much worse now.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 9 January 2022 20: 51
          +5
          Eh vivid expression - "The main thing is that there is a" crust "about education!"
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 9 January 2022 20: 49
        +5
        I entered the technical school (college) in 1993.
        There were 2 groups of mechanics, as it should be.
        I was in the only group of electricians.
        And that for all 3 years of study did not have a full-time staff.
        A full 2 ​​groups of accountants were recruited on a paid basis !!!
        In those years, the growth in the number of lawyers and accountants began !!!
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 9 January 2022 20: 22
      +3
      Quote: Undecim
      random people entered universities

      Oh, not a fact ... with that competition, 10 - 15 people per place, not every random person could get into many universities. Perhaps according to quotas, different, but there were not so many of them and most of them flew out without staying for a long time.
      After the first year, the groups got smaller, that's a fact.
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 9 January 2022 21: 03
        +3
        In 1977, the competition at MATI was about 1,5 people per place.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 9 January 2022 21: 15
          +3
          As I say, it was different everywhere.
          We had to try to enter the Polytechnic ... but in the state and agricultural enterprises, they acted easily, and they studied there ... whoever entered the knowledge received it, and who received a diploma ... it turned out differently ...
      2. Kwas
        Kwas 9 January 2022 21: 30
        +3
        Quote: rocket757
        with that competition, 10 - 15 people per place, not every random person could get into many universities.

        Competitions were different, here we (TashGu Physics Department in 1983) had only about 1,5 people per seat. However, nevertheless, there were few random ones, and the factor of good teaching and examinations gave a lot even to the idlers.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 9 January 2022 21: 45
          +2
          So we had real specialists from the state farm and agricultural sector ... unfortunately there was also enough ballast.
          By the way, our course at the Polytechnic University, not all reached the diploma ... a quarter was "lost on the way." And not everyone managed to work in their specialty ...
    3. Kwas
      Kwas 9 January 2022 21: 24
      +5
      Quote: Undecim
      Universities got random people.

      Quote: Undecim
      I needed a diploma.

      Quote: Undecim
      it doesn’t matter what to finish, it’s important where to get a job

      Exactly. As they say, "An apple falls not far from an apple tree," but a former student is not far from his almamatra!
  9. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 9 January 2022 19: 00
    +5
    houses are being sold, because in this paradise there is probably no normal work
  10. 1536
    1536 9 January 2022 19: 50
    +2
    The guys are all like a selection, more like geologists, and not like archaeologists. Although, of course, anything can happen. As far as I know, in archaeological expeditions, people of specialized specialties received a lot of experience in scientific research, painstaking work, without which, as you know, you cannot pull a fish out of a pond, not to mention some Novgorod birch bark or other antiquities with a great material price. And here we have a sociological study of some kind, if with pieces of paper, with numbers, and even on the study of such a social phenomenon as the level of education of workers on the example of one particular region in the Penza region of the RSFSR. And the conclusions after conducting such a study could be made interesting in terms of, for example, who and why received education in this area and what kind, why the number of Russian population in the region decreased from 1939 to the 1970s, etc.
    Although what am I talking about? In those years, sociological research of such a plan could easily be equated with anti-Soviet propaganda, undermining, defaming the socialist system with all the ensuing consequences. At that time a different meaning was put into the very concept of "sociology" in the USSR, and in fact it was not taught in Soviet universities. And only enthusiasts could engage in real sociological practice in those years.
    But thanks to the author for the recollections, because latently young people felt then that it was better to do outdoor recreation than to combine the incompatible. For those years, and unthinkable. But then, after 15 years, they realized it, when the problems that still someone wanted to identify earlier, but could not, surfaced and became visible to everyone. But it was already too late "to sort out pieces of paper" and it was not up to the numbers. So "his example to others is science ..." May the author forgive me for being familiar.
    1. kalibr
      9 January 2022 20: 27
      -1
      Quote: 1536
      May the author forgive me for being familiar.

      Why forgive? Karasho said, Dzhigit sovsem! That's right, daragoy!
  11. strannik1985
    strannik1985 9 January 2022 19: 55
    +8
    Personal experience is an interesting thing, for example, the author did not like some aspects of studying at a university. It happens.
    And I, for example, met my 19th and 20th birthday in the settlement of Khankala, the Republic of Chechnya. And this is also a personal experience.
  12. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 9 January 2022 19: 57
    +5
    So when they talk to me about free Soviet education in higher education, then ... I am rather skeptical about talking about it as a high-quality

    Actually on this topic, including dashed off an article, while modernization, I hope that they will release)
    The people, alas, do not really understand, let's say, the "peculiarities" of doing business at that time - and how much of this was far from our current ideas about freedom and freedom.
    Slogans like "Soviet means excellent!" survived the USSR itself and settled very tightly in the brains of certain categories of citizens, completely preventing them from analyzing the good and the bad and, as a result, thinking about what we should carry away from the past to the future, and what should be forgotten as a nightmare.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 9 January 2022 20: 26
      +8
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Slogans like "Soviet means excellent!"
      ... I will say this ... the statement that SOVIET MEANS DIFFERENT !!! will be more objective and more honest.
      It's my opinion ....
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 9 January 2022 20: 29
        +8
        Exactly ! It was good and effective, it was bad and ineffective. However, the general halo of some kind of awesome sacredness hanging over the topic of understanding the experience (and prerequisites) of successes and failures - this very steeply interferes with the definition of what the USSR had the dynamics of change in efficiency, roughly speaking. And this is an important point - how soon we love to delve into the past and look for answers or something key there.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 9 January 2022 20: 43
          +4
          It does not happen in life that everything is the same for everyone.
          More often than not, some balance is established / created and it is not necessary that good / bad and pzht are the same weight.
          Alas, alas, the world is not perfect, but this is ours and we must consider everything objectively without embellishment, but also without trying to paint everything black.
          Why deceive yourself and others ??? There will be no benefit from that, in the end.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 9 January 2022 21: 22
        +4
        SOVIET MEANS DIFFERENT !!!


        Like any other. smile

        Hi victor drinks
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 9 January 2022 21: 32
          0
          Hi Konstantin soldier
          If you think carefully, the sameness in everything is at least boring, and even harmful if you figure it out. It is clear, when we talk about serial products, the sameness, compliance with the standard, this is a sign of quality!
          But people, society, states, events and the like, should delight with their diversity and their dissimilarity!
          It is necessary to look at everything objectively, then there will be less confusion, misunderstandings ... life will be more varied and more fun.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 9 January 2022 21: 49
            0
            ... events and stuff like that, should delight in diversity and their dissimilarity!

            God forbid from such "surprises" as, say, October 1917. wassat
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 9 January 2022 21: 59
              +1
              The unexpected, as a rule, is something that he did not want to know about in advance, from laziness or stupidity .... at least global processes in the state suddenly do not occur.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 9 January 2022 22: 26
                -1
                Well, as far as surprise is concerned, anything can happen. For example, you settled down to dine in a familiar atmosphere at home under the supervision of your beloved wife, ate a tasty and satisfying meal and, satisfied with everything, fell on your favorite sofa, with your favorite book and your favorite cigarette ... And then suddenly !!!!!
                And with this "suddenly" you rush into the latrine and from the first volley smash your own toilet bowl.
                And where is the place of laziness, and even more stupidity - surprise, chance.

                I write "you" with a small letter, because I do not mean you, but a completely abstract character.

                As for the state, it also has indigestion, as it was with the State Emergency Committee. laughing
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 9 January 2022 22: 47
                  +2
                  To accept the problem of your intestines globally, it is necessary ...
                  Rather, it is personal, particular ...
                  But the State Emergency Committee was planned as a global one, and it was painfully certain, the individuals were too small, inept ... in general, it turned out to be a mess, because of which many swan lake hated for nothing !!! Our ballet, the best in the whole world!
                  Also, about the global ... now there are events that are different in magnitude, but the same in importance, because when combined into one single / whole, they can lead to noticeable, and maybe global changes in the world ...
                  In general, we'll take a look.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 9 January 2022 22: 58
                    -2
                    To accept the problem of your intestines globally, it is necessary ...


                    So if it does not function, then the rest of the problems, no matter how global they are, will not interest the deceased at all. request smile drinks
                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 9 January 2022 23: 03
                      +2
                      This is understandable ... many physicians confidently declare that this is the point of concentration of health or disease, this is everyone who chooses and does for himself!
                2. frog
                  frog 10 January 2022 10: 55
                  +1
                  Mill sorry, colleague, for interfering ...
                  As for the state, it also has indigestion, as it was with the State Emergency Committee.

                  As for me - yes, indigestion, only against the background of leprosy or cancer there ... Almost terminal ...
      3. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 January 2022 11: 35
        0
        Quote: rocket757
        ... I will say this ... the statement that SOVIET MEANS DIFFERENT !!! will be more objective and more honest.
        It's my opinion ....

        and it is!

        In the 1970s he came to apply to the national university.

        Next to the admissions office is another room with an announcement for admission of documents to Moscow universities.

        Was surprised, went in, greeted with a smile, took the documents, leafed through the passport: "So you ... Russian?" ... The smile faded: "Only for national cadres!" (sounded like "Get out!").

        And yes, Russians and Jews honestly fought in the competition for a place, and then there were nationals with poor knowledge in the group ... multiplication tables ...
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 10 January 2022 13: 13
          +3
          And so it was ... I had to "work" with the national cadres at the Academy of Sciences in Tallinn. After one time ... in general, it was enough and once, more, they could no longer drive there.
          In general, it was different in the USSR.
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 10 January 2022 20: 03
          +1
          In the 1970s he came to apply to the national university.
          Been close to home?
          And in other places, did they not provide hostels? National VUZ is something. If you were interested in the subject of study itself and the specialty after graduation, then in such an educational institution there is nothing to do, there will be no knowledge or specialty.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 January 2022 10: 37
            -4
            Quote: Aviator_
            National VUZ is something.

            these are the stupid inventions of YOUR brainless: to nobody not needed, neither local nor in the center.

            They created polytechnics, universities in the national republics for RUSSIAN money, drove Russian teachers there (leaving their descendants to the mercy of fate), robbing the Russian regions

            And the teachers, yes, were gorgeous: doctors of sciences, professors, Russian scientists and Jews
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 11 January 2022 18: 00
              0
              these are stupid inventions of YOUR brainless: not needed by anyone, neither local, nor in the center.

              Well, you suddenly needed this institution created by the "brainless". And what, to Moscow, Leningrad or somewhere else to go and there was not enough money to enter, or something else?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 12 January 2022 09: 53
                -4
                Quote: Aviator_
                Well, yousomething suddenly needed this institution, created by the "brainless". And what, to Moscow, Leningrad or somewhere else to go and there was not enough money to enter, or something else?

                You will "poke" your wife if you allow

                If it didn't come the first time: why should I go to Moscow / St. Petersburg, if the brainless, these scientists and teachers from there, were exiled HERE?

                At the same time, I went into the room where they accepted documents in Moscow universities (I did not even suspect that there was one) and there your brainless ones told me: "Pshel VON!" - because I am Russian.

                Did it get there? No.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 12 January 2022 18: 26
                  +1
                  Got it. Our "brainless" scientists were exiled to Chisinau, and here, in Moscow, only nationals taught.
                  They (the "brainless") were absolutely right. They wanted to send such a unique person to Moscow, but he did not want to. Why are you offended, just like a former teacher of Marxism-Leninism? Generally, guys from Moldova, Russians, studied with us in Moscow. There is even one member of the youth basketball team of the MSSR, Sashka Kvashnin. Absolutely adequate. Unlike.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 13 January 2022 10: 01
                    -4
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    Got it. Our "brainless" scientists were exiled to Chisinau, and here, in Moscow, only nationals taught.

                    It did not come again: the brainless exiled Russian scientists as well as engineers and even WORKERS to create from the nationals for RUSSIAN money what they were NOT asked for and what the nationals did not need at all.

                    And this is INSTEAD of creating in Russia, where it is needed and where the funds come from.
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    They wanted to send such a unique person to Moscow, but he did not want to

                    belay fool lol and where is it from, what nonsense ...
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    Why are you offended?

                    belay lol
                    Where is it? Are they offended by the head of sorrow?
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    Generally, guys from Moldova, Russians, studied with us in Moscow. There is even one member of the youth basketball team of the MSSR, Sashka Kvashnin. Absolutely adequate. Unlike.

                    "Aviators, I see. And why are you ashamed?"

                    But adequate guys who
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    studied in Moscow from Moldavia, Russians. ...
                    in view of this, no luck ...

                    PS "poke" - his wife, yes.
                    1. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 13 January 2022 18: 48
                      0
                      As a result, he didn’t finish anything, Marxist-Leninist?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 January 2022 09: 45
                        -3
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        As a result, he didn’t finish anything, Marxist-Leninist?

                        belay fool

                        If you do not know how to read / understand what is written above, then what are you going to comment on, bankrupt? lol
        3. anthonindex
          anthonindex 12 January 2022 18: 39
          -1
          Quote: Olgovich
          Jews fought honestly

          Jews? Honestly?
    2. kalibr
      9 January 2022 20: 29
      0
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      , while modernizing, I hope they will release

      Fingers crossed, it will be interesting to read what you wrote. Let me know on a personal note when it comes out, so that I don’t have to guess and not overlook.
  13. helvetic
    helvetic 9 January 2022 20: 13
    +11
    Good evening! It was sad and a little disgusting to read. As a participant and head of the practice at the Faculty of History of St. Petersburg State University, I can say that there has never been anything like this there. Probably, in this case, there was a lack of competent teachers and normal connections with the ongoing expeditions. In fact, two mediocre people were entrusted with imitation of activities.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 9 January 2022 20: 29
      +3
      There are not enough objective, life descriptions of how it really was!
      From my own experience - IT WAS DIFFERENT!
      With what to compare, this is a question ???
      Most have their own experience ... it's worth discussing it.
      1. AUL
        AUL 9 January 2022 22: 25
        +2
        Quote: rocket757
        From my own experience - IT WAS DIFFERENT!

        Indeed, it is incorrect to make any comparisons here. Even not only "in the USSR - now". In the days of the USSR, what, for example, did all the polytechnics produce specialists who were equally trained? Or did honey in Oryol produce the same specialists as honey somewhere in the Caucasus? The level of graduated specialists is very dependent on the teaching staff, the financial situation of the university, on (to put it mildly) the national traditions of the region ... Yes, a lot of what! And yet, in comparison of specialists "then - now" I would bet on those Soviet. And if (eh, dreams!) In the programs then there would be no boltology (History of the CPSU, philosophy, political economy and the like), and the profile disciplines would be given deeper and wider - all the Nobiles would be ours!
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 9 January 2022 22: 38
          0
          There were no completely useless subjects, although some could be optional, for those who WANTED TO STUDY THEM !!! By the way, for those subjects, this would be of great benefit; the teaching would be much better.
          As for the rest, I completely agree, the specificity was, and even in such different manifestations, it is difficult to imagine.
          The country is large, there was enough of everything, in abundance.
          Now to guess what would have happened if ... with yours not, you will have to play with the cards that are in your hands now ... there will be no retaking.
    2. kalibr
      9 January 2022 20: 30
      -1
      Quote: helvetic
      In fact, two mediocre people were entrusted with imitation of activities.

      One was far from mediocrity, but alas - he was a victim of a green serpent, in "this sea the heroes drown". I'm glad that everything was wrong with you!
  14. your vsr 66-67
    your vsr 66-67 9 January 2022 20: 18
    +4
    Probably these two with red noses taught the author to write libels, go to graduate school, humiliate Soviet education, etc.
    1. kalibr
      9 January 2022 20: 33
      -2
      Nikolai, lampoon, remember, this is when invented. And here, alas, nothing has been invented.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 9 January 2022 21: 30
      +1
      Probably those two with red noses ...


      I won't say anything about two, but with one the question is clear. laughing

  15. tatra
    tatra 9 January 2022 20: 36
    -1
    And now there is still such a specialty as "archaeologist"? Or did the enemies of the communists liquidate it because of "inefficiency"? For them, only that which brings them quick and easy profit, especially speculation, is effective.
    1. kalibr
      9 January 2022 20: 49
      -2
      Quote: tatra
      And now there is still such a specialty as "archaeologist"?

      Are you asking me, dear Irina, or is this a rhetorical question? But why ask at all? You use a computer - that means you type in Yandex or Google - a specialty of archeology in the universities of the Russian Federation. And everything opens up to you, where, what set, what programs, where is the bachelor's degree, where is the master's degree. Everything is online, you can see.
      I opened it myself - it became interesting, and there are so many universities that I got lost counting (I'm bad with mathematics), but you can count. Women are usually prone to taxonomy, and hence all kinds of calculations.
      1. tatra
        tatra 9 January 2022 21: 08
        -6
        Well, you took my question too seriously. It's just that in the "ideology" of the enemies of the communists, all 30 years after their seizure of the RSFSR, the profession of "archaeologist" does not seem to exist.
        There are officials, businessmen, cops / policemen, managers, churchmen, and they do not even remember about archaeologists.
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 9 January 2022 21: 29
          +2
          There is Irina, and the same Tula archaeological expedition is working very actively, the leader even received a state award, in the 90m, under his leadership, he was digging
        2. kalibr
          9 January 2022 21: 36
          0
          Quote: tatra
          Well, you took my question too seriously

          In my opinion, your comments do not set up a humorous mood? But I looked on the web. There are THREE pages of universities in the list, and on each of them there are several. I don’t want to choose both bachelor's and master's degrees.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 9 January 2022 21: 27
      +7
      And now there is still such a specialty as "archaeologist"?


      Remained. And even more prosperous is its branch of Archeology Underwater. smile

  16. Ingvar K
    Ingvar K 9 January 2022 20: 59
    +5
    A person was unlucky to study at a university, as he was a fool and remained so. We were taught as a human being, and Afghanistan, and hot spots, and perestroika and the new era survived everything.
    1. kalibr
      9 January 2022 21: 08
      -2
      Quote: Ingvar K
      A person was unlucky to study at a university, as he was a fool and remained so. We were taught as a human being, and Afghanistan, and hot spots, and perestroika and the new era survived everything.

      However, dear Igor, you were unlucky in something else. As you read me, you will read, read, and read.
  17. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 9 January 2022 21: 21
    +2
    I did archaeological practice and then after the 4th year I went to the area of ​​the Nepryavda fallout in the Don, the Kulikov field area, but they dug a settlement and burials, they found a lot of interesting things, and in Tula itself they dug up a potter's forge, which are all in their structure and that's it. there are only two of them, one was dug up on the territory of the Moscow Kremlin when there was a big restoration there and we were in Tula at 90
    1. kalibr
      9 January 2022 21: 39
      +1
      Now at our university, under the leadership of Belorybkin, they also take this very seriously. Every year in the summer they dig the Zolotarevskoe settlement. If you happen to be in Penza in the summer (or in the spring) - let me know - I'll bring it together, I'll show it ...
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 9 January 2022 21: 56
        0
        I invite you to Zadonsk, the most wonderful places, both nature and history, and wonderful places for recreation on the Don and Pine
        1. kalibr
          10 January 2022 06: 58
          -1
          Thank you. Very nice. Although most likely not destined ...
          1. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 10 January 2022 07: 41
            0
            Why is it not so far from Penza
  18. Hantengri
    Hantengri 9 January 2022 21: 53
    +6
    So when they talk to me about free Soviet education in higher education, then ... I am rather skeptical about talking about it as of high quality. Two drunkards with red noses were by no means suitable for educators of high communist morality,

    One such "drunkard with a red nose" who, once, in the distant Soviet times, taught us Mat.an. I still remember with great warmth and gratitude, and I am not the only one. I think my feelings are shared by most of those who are fortunate enough to learn from him.
    On the other hand, that "pale" and completely sober "moth" that taught us the History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union still evokes a persistent feeling of disgust and hatred.
    So, in my opinion, sometimes it is better sometimes drunk, but smart, than sober, but "moth", despite the communist morality.
    1. kalibr
      10 January 2022 06: 59
      -3
      Quote: HanTengri
      sometimes it is better sometimes drunk, but smart, than sober, but "moth", despite the communist morality.

      Without any doubt!
  19. Kwas
    Kwas 9 January 2022 22: 12
    +1
    Perhaps what is worth noting is the negative in the Soviet scientific system - this is the discrepancy between real scientific merits and gradualism. And the main thing is the useless system for conferring this degree, by the way, licked up from the West. But even now it is no better.
    1. kalibr
      10 January 2022 07: 00
      -1
      Quote: Kwas
      Perhaps what is worth noting is the negative in the Soviet scientific system - this is the discrepancy between real scientific merits and gradualism. And the main thing is the useless system for conferring this degree, by the way, licked up from the West. But even now it is no better.

      Quite right. But, alas, you and I will not be asked how to change it.
    2. frog
      frog 10 January 2022 10: 59
      +1
      Perhaps what is worth noting is the negative in the Soviet scientific system - this is the discrepancy between real scientific merits and gradualism.

      What is different now? The same ovo, only in profile .... All the same Ivans Antonovichs ... There are no M-L mantras on duty. Although even then 99 percent, in principle, did not understand the meaning of these.
  20. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 9 January 2022 23: 14
    +4
    > I'm pretty skeptical about talking about it as high quality.

    Tell me, does the present seemingly boast of a free education close to yours?) Don't think, I entered the Physics Faculty myself for free in 2003, but I'm not sure if this is still possible. I mean, free and guaranteed at the same level is much nicer than the other way around.
    Thanks anyway, interesting and vital.
  21. CHEREDA73
    CHEREDA73 10 January 2022 00: 14
    +2
    "I was drunk!" Is the best excuse of all time. That is, we had two laws: one for the sober, the other for the drunk.

    I do not know...
    It seems to me that this is now an aggravating circumstance. Although, it probably depends on who works where.
    1. kalibr
      10 January 2022 07: 01
      +1
      Quote: CHEREDA73
      now an aggravating circumstance.

      Now, yes, and even what!
      1. Kwas
        Kwas 10 January 2022 07: 33
        +2
        By the way, are you aware that according to the Soviet Criminal Code, this was also an aggravating circumstance?
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 10 January 2022 07: 29
      +2
      And in Soviet times it was aggravating.
  22. RoTTor
    RoTTor 10 January 2022 00: 38
    +2
    Interesting here:
    -the level of future historians,
    - the motivation for their choice of a specialty in which they did not intend to work,
    - well, their only doctor of historical sciences.
    1. kalibr
      10 January 2022 07: 02
      -1
      Quote: RoTTor
      and their only doctor of historical sciences.

      Not the only one. Second. The first one read the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union ... He had a telling nickname Vsevoloch ...
  23. EvilLion
    EvilLion 10 January 2022 08: 30
    +3
    Again Shpakovsky was offended.
  24. Simulations
    Simulations 10 January 2022 11: 12
    +5
    And what is the savagery of the Zemetchinsky district? I grew up in the Zemetchino district, Sakhzavod, Butter Cheese Factory, Brewery (and what kind of beer was, was famous around) and much more. Every year I go there to see my relatives. After a trip in 2010, I was shocked: the streets with sidewalks were asphalted, a sports center with a swimming pool was built, an alley of memory was made in the central square and the square itself was ennobled. What's the shock you ask? And in our regional center in those years, the central streets were repaired with broken bricks. The author sprinkles the "damned scoop" as best he can, but after all, all the factories were closed, except for the sugar plant, and there was no work and the outflow of the population began, with blessed democracy and capitalism. Well, the optimization of medicine also added its contribution, the Zemetchinsky regional hospital, one of the best, ordered to live a long time. In general, the impression is that the author has some kind of personal grievance.
    1. kalibr
      11 January 2022 08: 02
      -7
      Quote: Simplication
      In general, the impression is that the author has some kind of personal grievance.

      Not at all. It's just that the scoop owes me a lot. So you have to get these debts in this way. What did Red Butler of Gone With the Wind say? Someone earns on the creation of a new world, someone on the destruction of the past. And I am on that, and on the other!
      1. Kwas
        Kwas 11 January 2022 13: 34
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        the scoop owes me a lot

        Hmmm. The position is typical in certain circles. "I gave more than I took," right? Incidentally, perhaps, although hardly. But the point is that it should be so. On average, a person should give to society more than receive, because this society still has systemic needs, or, if you like, interests. And the one who wants to take every penny from him, somehow pull out, loves not to notice what he received from society, and ultimately slides into vulgar parasitism. Like the same Rhett Butler. Of course he stole, no words, but about human happiness, as a rule, problems are observed. Such is the pattern.
        1. kalibr
          11 January 2022 14: 21
          -5
          Quote: Kwas
          give more to society

          Why not give a good one, but a society that is built on lies and hypocrisy, on deceit and outright robbery - you don't need an Indian hut. And Rhett and Scarlett had all their problems due to the lack of sex education, that's all. And ignorant people can be happy, but with difficulty.
          1. Kwas
            Kwas 11 January 2022 19: 38
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            Why not give to the good, but to the society, which is built on lies and hypocrisy

            It became very interesting to me, where is "good society" for you? Not on Mars by accident? Then you go there!
            1. kalibr
              11 January 2022 19: 50
              -5
              Quote: Kwas
              where is "good society" for you?

              Here and now. Better now than then. In my opinion. And the views of everyone else are of little interest to me.
          2. Kwas
            Kwas 11 January 2022 19: 47
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            all the problems were due to the lack of sex education,

            only 10% of their problems can be attributed to this. And the rest is due to the ultimate selfishness. As in general, people who go over their heads, and then are surprised that "something is going wrong", and for some reason they are not very much loved, not trusted, not respected, etc. I have seen such copies well. And you, probably.
            1. kalibr
              11 January 2022 19: 53
              -4
              Quote: Kwas
              do not like much,

              Remember the film "Alexander Nevsky". They shout to him there: "You don’t love us!" So it is here. Do you need the love of people ... socially and intellectually backward? I don’t. And to look for respect among them is not to respect yourself.
              1. Kwas
                Kwas 12 January 2022 12: 02
                +2
                Feeling like an "elite" and "one of the 20%" (or better, generally unique) is certainly nice, but to think that you can do without these 80% is pretty stupid. And do not take into account their opinions - too. But this is the general stupidity of Westernism, of which you are apparently a fan. It is your right to despise those who are more stupid than you, but keep in mind that the mind is a relative concept, and by this you give the right to despise you to those who are smarter than you.
            2. kalibr
              11 January 2022 19: 55
              -3
              Quote: Kwas
              maybe 10% of their problems

              Just not 10, but all 50 ...
        2. kalibr
          11 January 2022 14: 23
          -5
          Quote: Kwas
          "I gave more than I took"

          They took it without asking! More precisely ... That is, they simply robbed.
      2. RoTTor
        RoTTor 11 January 2022 22: 50
        0
        psychology of hyena, vulture, dung worm
  25. viktortarianik
    viktortarianik 10 January 2022 12: 19
    +4
    I did not expect such rubbish from you, comrade Shpakovsky. New Year's Eve failed?
    1. kalibr
      11 January 2022 07: 58
      -5
      Quote: viktortarianik
      I did not expect such rubbish from you, comrade Shpakovsky. New Year's Eve failed?

      Vice versa! It went great. And the article is excellent, I haven't written so well for a long time. And that's what it is - it will be even more interesting further! Get ready ...
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