Speed ​​versus maneuverability and combat power: Pakistan buys J-10C fighters to counter Indian Rafale

India's purchase of French Rafale fighters boosts combat capabilities aviation countries, which forced neighboring Pakistan to build up the potential of its air forces.

Islamabad purchases 25 J-10C fighters from Beijing, of which it is planned to create a separate squadron to counter Indian Rafale aircraft. In this regard, Western observers tried to compare the two cars.

As stated in the First Post, the Rafale is one tonne heavier when unloaded (9,85 versus 8,85 tonnes), but has 20% more thrust:

This means that with the same fuel weight and weapons The Rafale will have a much better thrust-to-weight ratio than the J-10C, which means increased maneuverability and more power, which will affect the outcome of close combat.

The operational capabilities of Rafale are also orders of magnitude higher. Its flight range is 3700 km, compared to 1850 km for the J-10C. However, the French fighter is significantly inferior to the Chinese in speed, developing only Mach 1 against Mach 2,2 as a potential enemy.

The Rafale short-range missile (MICA-IR) is several generations ahead of the PL-8/9 J-10C and is capable of much better target recognition and greater range coverage. The Meteor long-range missile also has an advantage. It is equipped with a ramjet engine, which provides a flight range of 200 km.

The Meteor is unquestionably the best air-to-air missile in the world.

- believe in the publication.

The J-10C in this class uses the PL-15 with a range of fire over 200 km. But the missile's radar is unfinished, so it cannot reach its full potential, the publication explains.

The acquisition of the Chinese J-10C in Pakistan was not welcomed by everyone. Senator Afnan Ullah Khan said he "does not understand the logic behind the purchase of the J-10C." According to him, the country's air force already has an aircraft similar to the J-10, meaning the F-16.

J-10C is not as good as the Rafale, which is in service with the Indian Air Force.

- noted the politician.

Comments

[Freemason Mason]

However, the French fighter is significantly inferior to the Chinese in speed, developing only Mach 1 against Mach 2,2 as a potential enemy.

According to data from open sources, the maximum speed of the Rafale is 1,8M versus 2M for the J-10C - the difference is more than negligible. In addition, the Rafale has supersonic cruise capability (1,4M). It's not even worth talking about superiority in stealth, maneuverability and avionics. At the moment, Rafale is the best 4th generation fighter, which is confirmed by numerous orders over the past few years (Egypt, India, Croatia, Greece, Qatar, etc.). The only negative difference from the J-10C is the price.

[den3080]

They would be better off looking at each other when changing the guard and that's it.

And pay attention, all with Kalash.
That's not more than that.

[aslan balaev]

It is somewhat reminiscent of inflating turkeys during mating games. Well, the words Indian and turkey are still different.

[Proton]

Since you have posted this photo, I cannot pass by.
Saw this show live, an experience of a lifetime. Great!
India for me is love for life.

[Alex777]

India should thank GDP.
The J-10 is not a Su-35. Absolutely.

[dauria]

The only negative difference from the J-10C is the price.

Well, so the criterion "efficiency - cost" has not been canceled. And the Israeli Lavi was originally overweight for the Pratt & Whitney PW1120 engine with its 6 tons of thrust without afterburner. They abandoned it in favor of the F-16. The Chinese picked up, stuck in our 31st, but this miss with the thrust-to-weight ratio did not go anywhere. But which is better - a pair of J-10 or one Rafale will depend on a bunch of things. And first of all from the theater and the warring parties. It may happen that the Su-7B is the best there.

[D16]

They threw it in favor of the F-16

Lavi was abandoned because the amers had to sell the F-16.

The Chinese picked up, stuck in our 31st, but this miss with the thrust-to-weight ratio did not go anywhere.

But the empty J-10 is 130kg lighter than the F-16S with a half times larger wing area.
I think, if they want the packs, we will make an Al-41FN under the J-10 with a lower drive box of the units. It has already been shown with OVT. In this configuration, he will tear Rafali like Tuzik a heating pad, and for little money ... And now these machines do not have decisive advantages.

[lucul]

The Rafale is currently the best 4th generation fighter, as evidenced by numerous orders over the past few years.

It surpasses the Su-35S in avionics and missiles, and is inferior in flight performance.
So the leadership is controversial.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: Freemason

It's not even worth talking about superiority in stealth, maneuverability and avionics. Rafale is currently the best 4th generation fighter.

As in that joke ... My neighbor says that he can five times a night with his wife,
-Well, so you SPEAK. Here are these praises, as from an anecdote. No one is at war with anyone, but everyone knows who is cooler.

[D16]

Rafale has supersonic cruise capability (1,4M).

Doesn't the J-10 have?

stealth, maneuverability and avionics is not even worth talking about.

I will not say about stealth and BREO, however, no one will, but maneuverability can be judged by the specific wing loading. And there 338 versus 326 kg / m2. Considering the smaller area of ​​the midship of the J-10, I would put it on a Jewish-Russian-Chinese fighter. Moreover, it can be modernized relatively quickly and for little money.

[ugol2]

The operational capabilities of Rafale are also an order of magnitude higher

Who else does not know that "by an order of magnitude" is 10 times?

[tralflot1832]

Rafale, without taking off from the airfield, knocks everything down. He is an order of magnitude better. Flying on Rafals, at the same time they are buried in MIG 21. They do not appreciate pilots at all. Or do they have a custom by type of aircraft?

[Pechkin]

And how many Raphales and Migs are there, and how they are used. The Air Force is large and the park is motley, Mirages still fly there too.

[fa2998]

But it looks "nice" in the text!

[Avior]

10 times more in mathematics.
In Russian, "an order of magnitude more" is a synonym for "much more"

[S. Sergei]

There is no such synonym, there is ignorance, ct. sometimes it becomes the norm of the Russian language. Like coffee. Sometimes you look at a person: like an adult, a serious face, a tie ... But he will blurt out this and for me his opinion falls on this very order.

[Avior]

This is from your poor knowledge of the Russian language

many times, many times ◆ Upon meeting with Lenin, he immediately vaguely felt that this person possesses something more than that which he, Krasin, was given, by some order of magnitude higher. V. P. Aksyonov, "Love for Electricity"

[Mucose]

For the time being, the PRC supplies J-10C only with the AL-31FN engine, foreign customers do not risk taking from the WS-10A yet, so there is additional export for the Russian military-industrial complex.

[Kosh]

So far, the J-10 has not been exported at all. Pakistan will be the first recipient of the export option and we will not know what kind of engines there are until we see them.

[spirit]

Senator Afnan Ullah Khan said he "does not understand the logic behind the purchase of the J-10C." According to him, the country's air force already has an aircraft similar to the J-10, meaning the F-16.

Therefore, China is no different from the United States in terms of lobbying. Having lured Pakistan under its protectorate, just like the United States lobbies its cars

[Seafood]

The senator just doesn't know much about the matter. Pakistani F-16s are already obsolete and delivered in the midst of the Soviet-Afghan war, these are not the new Block 70/72.

[yuriy55]

The Meteor is unquestionably the best air-to-air missile in the world.
- believe in the publication.

The Meteor is arguably one of the best air-to-air missiles out there. And then, if we begin to rely on the quality of the expertise of various media and publications, then we will have to admit that the T-34 was made of cardboard and did not participate in any wars at all.
==========
Pakistan took what it could afford. And whose choice is better - time will tell.

[paul3390]

Meteor, of course, is a very good rocket, without a doubt, but the use of a ramjet engine leaves several questions .. How effective will it be, for example, at low carrier speeds, or at low altitudes? What about her maneuverability? Etc..

[Jacket in stock]

The last real air battle, which, by the way, took place between Pakistan and India, showed that the flight characteristics of the aircraft still did not affect the outcome of the duel in any way.
In life, it turned out to be deeply indifferent to the power-to-weight ratio, maximum speed and other maneuverability.
The main thing turned out to be who saw whom first in the sight and, accordingly, fired a rocket. And who has a rocket smarter, more precisely, flies farther and faster.
And to what this rocket is screwed absolutely no difference.

[Seafood]

The last real air battle, which, by the way, took place between Pakistan and India, showed that the flight characteristics of the aircraft still did not affect the outcome of the duel in any way.

If you are talking about a collision in 2019, then it is not clear how it confirms that "LTH does not affect." There, from the only confirmed that the Pakistani F-16 Block-15 shot down the MiG-21 and that's it, both vehicles are already old. The Indians tried to lie about the fact that they shot down the F-16 there, but then they could not provide any evidence, and the Pakistanis just showed the captured pilot.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Fiesta

Pakistani F-16 Block-15 shot down a MiG-21 and that's it

Here I am about the same.
The American has a stupidly better locator and better missiles. And that's all.

[Seafood]

And, I read it wrong, so for some reason I thought that it was not purely LTH that was meant, but in general characteristics, incl. electronic filling. Nevertheless, like the F-16 is not worse than the MiG-21 in terms of flight characteristics?

[D16]

The operational capabilities of Rafale are also orders of magnitude higher. Its flight range is 3700 km, compared to 1850 km for the J-10C.

Rave. The fuel supply in the internal tanks of the J-10 is 700 kg less, but the specific consumption without afterburner Al-31FN is 0,67 versus 0,87 for the M-88. So they are roughly equal.

[bovi]

the last time they preferred to create extras with the Chinese summer people, attacking f16; I mean that their wars with India are not about destruction and not about gaining superiority, but about demonstrations and provocations, high-tech with the psychology of urban gangs. It is important to set the number and for the kitchen knives to shine terribly. Do ministers understand this and bargain accordingly?