Military Review

"Sensational" "News". Now and about “Pantsir-С1”

62
For quite a long time, a peculiar unpleasant tradition has appeared in the domestic media. Sensational first news negative about the Russian armed forces - about the course of rearmament, about the conditions of service, etc. Then it is reprinted by other publications, the news gets a significant spread and ... And an official refutation comes in, in which the situation is arranged on the shelves and it turns out that the initial scandalous message either incorrectly interpreted the facts or expressed nothing at all in relation to reality. Nevertheless, almost always official denials do not receive such distribution as negative "sensations."

Pantsir-С1 (in the center of the target tracking radar) - two double-barreled anti-aircraft guns and 12 ground-to-air missiles, ready to launch


Another act of this farce happened literally the other day, and it was somewhat unusual. For some unknown reason, earlier “sensations” mostly appeared on Monday morning. Probably, this is somehow connected with the beginning of the working week and the opportunity to spread the news with greater efficiency than at the weekend. To the credit of the press service of the Ministry of Defense, most of the denials also did on Monday. This time, for some reason, the time frame has shifted significantly. A message about the failures of rearmament appeared last Friday (14 of September), and the refutation came only on this Tuesday (18 of September).

14 of the day, in the afternoon on the website of the newspaper "Izvestia" appeared a note with the loud name "Ground Forces refused" Pantsir "". In it, referring to a certain source in the command of the Ground Forces, it was asserted that the Ministry of Defense did not intend to procure the Pantsir-С1 anti-aircraft missile systems anymore. As a reason for this, the characteristics of the complex, which allegedly do not meet the technical requirements of the military, were mentioned. It is not difficult to guess that the name or other "coordinates" of the source were not called. It is worth noting that almost always in the context of such “sensations” certain anonymous sources appear in the Ministry of Defense, the military-industrial complex, etc. And in most cases, the information received from anonymous authors is not confirmed.

Nevertheless, the terrible reputation of anonymous sources did not prevent Izvestia from referring to another such character, this time allegedly related to the defense industry. According to another anonymous author, comparative tests of the Pantsir-С1 and Tor-М2 anti-aircraft complexes have already been conducted, which ended not in favor of the first one. The Pantsir-С1 allegedly has the following drawbacks: the rocket cannot hit maneuverable targets, the complex is not mobile enough and has problems with electronics. Finally, the “representative of the military-industrial complex” referred to the tactical uselessness of the short-range air defense missile system. He believes that in modern war, such equipment will be quickly destroyed by enemy aircraft using guided weapons of the appropriate range.

On Tuesday evening, the press service of the Ministry of Defense of Russia published official data regarding the news about the "Pantsiry". As it turned out, there is no refusal from procurement and it is not planned. ZRPK "Pantsir-С1" was put into service, in the Aerospace Defense Forces ten copies are already in operation. In the near future - until the end of October - the troops of the East Kazakhstan Oblast will receive the second batch of new anti-aircraft missile-gun complexes. Currently, the main task of these complexes is to cover the positions of the C-400 air defense system from dangerous objects in the near zone. Deliveries to the Ground Forces have not yet begun due to the lack of a corresponding modification of the complex, which is just being developed.

The means of military air defense have a number of characteristic features necessary for the full protection of troops on the march and on the battlefield. Among them is also a good cross. According to the Deputy General Director of the Instrument Design Bureau (Tula), where the Pantsir-S1 was developed, Y. Savenkova, currently the main claim of the Ground Forces is the chassis of the complex. The military doubt the quality of the wheeled chassis and want to get tracked. As soon as the design of the tracked version of the “Shell-С1” is completed and a prototype is built, it will be possible to draw conclusions about its prospects. However, it is already clear now that the complex will be supplied to the Ground Forces and, contrary to the statements of the anonymous author from the defense industry, not to compete, but to complement Tor-М2.

With the adoption issues, we figured out. Now it would not hurt to dwell on the statements of the “source” in the defense industry. Let's start in order. Allegedly, the 57E6E rocket cannot hit maneuverable targets. The stated maximum overload that a rocket can maneuver with is ten units. From this it follows that it is capable of destroying all types of targets that the military air defense of the near zone should deal with. Mobility complex. It is unlikely that the KAMAZ-6560 wheeled chassis can be called bad. On the highway ZRPK at its base can move at speeds up to 90 kilometers per hour. When driving on rough terrain, the maximum speed is significantly reduced, but remains at the level of most other military equipment. In general, as already mentioned, the only problem of the wheeled chassis is its less high permeability compared to tracked.

Finally, a small firing range. The arguments of the “representative of the defense industry” regarding the range of the “Shell-С1” for a knowledgeable person look rather strange. Over the past several decades, the concept of echeloned air defense has been used in our country. Both the country's air defense systems and troop anti-aircraft weapons are divided into several groups depending on the radius of action and are used in accordance with it. For example, in the composition of military air defense there are both short and ultra-low range complexes (2K12 "Cube" and 2K20 "Tunguska") with a range of no more than 15-30 kilometers, and long C-300B, a hundred plus odd. Thus, the troops have the opportunity to create a continuous zone of destruction with a radius of several tens of kilometers and reliably cover the columns of equipment or important objects. Breaking through such a defense is a very difficult task - in fact, most of the air attack weapons will be hit before they reach their target at a sufficient distance. The Pantsir-С1 complexes in such a system play the same role as the earlier Tunguska. A self-propelled anti-aircraft missile-cannon complex must be part of a column of equipment or near the stationary object to be covered and provide, if I may say so, the last level of protection. In addition, such systems with a small radius of action are used to close the so-called. dead funnel anti-aircraft missile systems longer range.

As we see, all the theses expressed in the well-known edition either have been refuted in official sources, or are shattered into smithereens by other open information. "Shell-С1" continue to be delivered to the troops and improved. As for sensational reports in the press, they are most likely caused by the desire to raise their own rating, even at the cost of misinterpreting the facts or attracting some anonymous sources. To maintain a normal information situation in the country, it would not hurt to get rid of this unpleasant phenomenon. But it is already completely different. история.


On the materials of the sites:
http://izvestia.ru/
http://mil.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
http://pvo.guns.ru/
http://kbptula.ru/
Author:
62 comments
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  1. Trailer
    Trailer 20 September 2012 08: 41
    +22
    "According to another anonymous author, comparative tests of the Pantsir-C1 and Tor-M2 anti-aircraft systems have already been carried out, which ended far not in favor of the former. The Pantsir-C1 allegedly has the following disadvantages ..."

    In any case, the director of the Tor-M2 production company has acted as an anonymous source for the Izvestia newspaper! Business.
    1. Redpartyzan
      Redpartyzan 20 September 2012 09: 28
      0
      Thank you reassured. But I really believed.
      1. SHILO
        SHILO 20 September 2012 11: 25
        +19
        Redpartyzan
        Thank you reassured. But I really believed.

        Do not joke so. laughing
        1. koosss
          koosss 20 September 2012 13: 01
          +10
          well coms truth long ago turned into a shit unfortunately
        2. Civil
          Civil 21 September 2012 07: 38
          +1
          SHILO,

          jeans. Coca Cola. chewing gum. sandwich. changed to the USSR
      2. Isr
        Isr 21 September 2012 20: 06
        -7
        Victor Volsky
        Yorktown, Virginia
        Website: volsky.us
        RAID TO SYRIA
        ...
        The destruction of the Syrian nuclear facility in itself dealt a severe blow to the ambitions of Syria and Iran. But, probably, the allies in the anti-American and anti-Israeli coalition were even more shocked by the fact that the Syrian air defense system, considered one of the most powerful in the world, turned out to be absolutely powerless against Israeli aviation. The prestige of Moscow was also seriously affected, for the latest Russian-made air defense equipment is on guard over the Syrian borders. The Iranian military is stunned by how helpless the Russian air defense system turned out to be, on which Iran spent a lot of money for itself and for its impoverished ally Syria. Last summer, the first batch arrived in Damascus as part of a dozen ordered in Moscow anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems “Shell-C1”. The total supply volume is 50 complexes, some of which are probably intended for Iran, if only because Tehran has fully paid for the order worth $ 400 million.
        1. Sleg
          Sleg 22 September 2012 01: 57
          +4
          Oops, nothing was bombed in 2007, but the shells began to be delivered in 2008.
          What kind of suffering of prestige are you talking about?
          The Israelites hurried to bomb faster to catch before the appearance of the armor of Syria
        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 23 September 2012 10: 54
          +3
          Quote: Isr
          The destruction of the Syrian nuclear facility in itself dealt a severe blow to the ambitions of Syria and Iran ......

          There are other notes:
          ".... - 2012 June 22 - a Turkish reconnaissance aircraft RF-4E was shot down near Latakia by Syrian air defense forces. According to foreign media reports (http://www.debka.com), the plane was shot down by the Pantsir-C1 air defense missile system "....."
          Apparently, the Syrian military took into account the negative experience and retrofitted their air defense, and oddly enough, again Soviet (Russian), which is the same, says a lot.

          Map of the region where the Turkish RF-4E reconnaissance aircraft was shot down. Shown are the operating ranges of the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile systems from possible locations of positions in the Latakia region. Illustrated by RIA Novosti (http://ria.ru/infografika).
      3. Rustam
        Rustam 22 September 2012 01: 15
        0
        here is a good article http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2012-09-21/1_two_fronts.html
    2. DYMITRY
      DYMITRY 20 September 2012 09: 41
      +24
      Quote: Karavan
      the director of the Tor-M2 production facility was the anonymous one for the Izvestia newspaper! Business.

      Probably not. For such vyser in Izvestia happens with sad regularity. A month ago, there was a similar stuffing in the nuclear submarine. A couple of months ago we screwed up on something else.
      So my opinion is that the anonymous source of Izvestia in the RF Ministry of Defense is the cat of the editor-in-chief. Circulations then raise as it is necessary.
      Izvestia has long since slipped to the tabloid leaf. This is sad.
      1. Fox
        Fox 20 September 2012 13: 46
        +13
        why so on a cat? rather a Jewish origin, and complexes associated with it ... but well done cats!
      2. 1tankist
        1tankist 20 September 2012 14: 40
        0
        Quote: DYMITRY
        similar vyser in Izvestia happens with sad regularity


        We look forward to next Monday. Soon we will find out another masterpiece "Izvetiy" about failures in the defense industry from the words of ananistaonima.
      3. 16
        16 20 September 2012 23: 08
        0
        in today's Russia a lot of sad !!!!!!!!! unfortunately !!!!!!
    3. Director
      Director 20 September 2012 09: 57
      +8
      One hundred pounds, you're right. And brought the anonymous letter in a yellow envelope fellow . But seriously, you need to pinch such anonymous and hang up for IT, NEAR MIN. DEFENSE.
    4. George IV
      George IV 20 September 2012 12: 40
      0
      No, not like that. Anonymous who introduced himself as the production director of Tor-M2 ...
    5. Warik
      Warik 20 September 2012 20: 01
      +5
      20000 foreign agents in Russia ... What else can they do, besides shaking the power and spreading pseudo-democracy, they are engaged in Disinformation, pro-Western idorasts get moldy dollars for this, the main thing is not to get into these cheap tricks!)
    6. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 20 September 2012 20: 28
      +7
      Shell-C1 is not an analogue of Tor-M2 but a complementary complex.
      If it’s primitive, while Tor-M2 is knocking down the plane, Shell-C1 is knocking down a missile launched by Tor-M2.
    7. edge
      edge 20 September 2012 21: 14
      +2
      The answer is the one who pays the one and orders the music. And our media bought up zapadentsev
      1. alexng
        alexng 20 September 2012 23: 57
        +6
        Look at the example of our forum: those who cry more and catch up on negativity are honored. And you are the media-media. The mentality is most likely to blame for that ... Thought is material and, if you constantly complain and cry, you will die in poop. As Eastern wisdom says, abundance comes only when a person begins to be content with something small and rejoice in this small. And then this small grows and becomes BIG. "Whoever has it will be given and will increase, and whoever does not, the last will be taken away."
        And the whiners of Russia do more harm than trolls, foreign agents and opponents of Russia combined.
    8. aksakal
      aksakal 20 September 2012 22: 47
      +1
      Quote: Karavan
      In any case, the director of the Tor-M2 production company has acted as an anonymous source for the Izvestia newspaper! Business.
      - Countryman, catch the plus sign, I think that you are right. Look for someone to profit from -))) But the phrase needs to end, Business - nothing personal. Let beaten, but the phrase is finished -)))
    9. Hammer
      Hammer 21 September 2012 02: 05
      +4
      The tests were. And in fact, in comparative tests, it was Tor-m2 that looked better. He shot down all targets, unlike the Shell. But nevertheless, the carapace was still recognized as a more promising complex, since it has a greater potential for modernization. "Thor" is good because it has been in operation for more than a dozen years, and has outlived all its childhood illnesses. And "Shell" is still damp, but it will take several years, it will also get rid of its problems and become a more advanced complex than Thor is now. But no matter what, the Pantsir is a very promising development, so it should and will go to the troops.
      Kumu is interested, here is a good article about "Shell", it touches on the test results:
      http://warfiles.ru/show-9406-kompleks-96k6-pancir-s1-sa-22-greyhound.html
  2. Oleg Rosskiyy
    Oleg Rosskiyy 20 September 2012 09: 13
    +9
    In order to cast aside all doubts about the reliability and combat effectiveness of "Pantsir-C1", you just need to remember the shot down Turkish intelligence officer.
    1. PARROT
      PARROT 20 September 2012 10: 51
      -2
      And where did you get the idea that he was hit by a shell?
      1. datur
        datur 20 September 2012 12: 55
        +3
        Quote: PARROT



        And why did you get the idea that he was hit by a shell? - It’s just that the Turks just smoked a hookah !!!! wink laughing
    2. Butterfly net
      Butterfly net 20 September 2012 10: 56
      -13
      Yes, where did you get that shell. He passes the test, that he delivered to Syria, I also did not hear. Populism is minus.
      1. Oleg Rosskiyy
        Oleg Rosskiyy 22 September 2012 21: 51
        +1
        Quote: Net
        Do populism

        Better populism than ananism. Two minuses.
    3. smprofi
      smprofi 20 September 2012 13: 46
      +9
      Oleg Rosskiyy correctly writes that the Turkish Fantom F-4 was shot down by "Pantsir". Moreover, according to the video in youtube, one can judge that the shooting was conducted quite competently, without hysteria.
      for Net RU: about 36 ZRPK "Pantsir-S1E" were delivered to Syria
      BUT!
      for example in this configuration



      for military air defense "Pantsir" is of little use. even more so, for example, to cover tank units.
      The main complaint about Pantsir, especially in comparison with Tor-M2, is the low resolution of the Pantsir radar (effective reflecting surface or target EPR). there was information that about 1,5 m². that's a LOT. for a GP / attack aircraft (the same Fantom F-4) - that's enough. but for the same KR (about 0,1 m² for the same BGM-109 Tomahawk) is in no way suitable.

      Well, the version on the GM-352M1E chassis



      exist. but so far in a single copy.
      so "Pantsir" is a kind of repetition of "Tunguska", but not with much success ..
      and, again, do not forget that initially "Shell" was created by order of the United Arab Emirates. at least at the decisive stage of design and refinement to serial samples.
      1. PARROT
        PARROT 20 September 2012 18: 50
        -3
        Give a link to the video
        1. smprofi
          smprofi 20 September 2012 21: 22
          +2
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdIEmyvyJYo
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 23 September 2012 11: 05
        +2
        ".... RLM SOTS S-band - according to the terms of reference of the Ministry of Defense of Russia TsKBA (Tula), together with KBP (Tula), a radar module of the target detection station has been developed, which provides detection, recognition and automatic tracking of targets in conditions of active and passive interference with a detection and tracking range of at least 40 km. ZRPK passed acceptance tests at the Kapustin Yar test site from May 15 to July 8, 2011. The tests were completed with a positive conclusion. Previously, there was a media version that this is one of the export options. complex "Pantsir-C1" with Wexler radar, which was undergoing acceptance tests for transferring to a foreign customer.

        The performance characteristics of the RLM SOC S-band:
        Weight RLM SOC - 950 kg.
        Viewing area:
        - in azimuth (due to electromechanical scanning) - 0-360 degrees
        - in azimuth (due to electronic scanning, in sector mode) - 90 degrees
        - elevation (due to electronic scanning) - 0-60 degrees
        Target detection / tracking range with an EPR of 1 sq.m - at least 40 km
        The height of the flight targets - 5 - 20000 m
        Target speed - 30-1200 m / s
        Overload during maneuver - up to 10G
        The number of simultaneously tracked targets - at least 40
        Information update period (full review) - 4 seconds ... "

        Serial sample of ZRPK "Pantsir-S1" with RLM SOTS S-band, the antenna of the state recognition station was moved to the upper part of the module, plant "Scheglovsky Val", Tula, 11.02.2011 (http://www.gruzdev.ru) ...
  3. asavchenko59
    asavchenko59 20 September 2012 09: 16
    +7
    I don’t read this newspaper!
  4. mongoose
    mongoose 20 September 2012 09: 20
    +5
    Duc and we have on the forum how many similar articles?
    ps The form used to say that a cook can manage the state, now it's time to say that any manager knows about building engineering, aviation, and the navy
    1. Smirnov Vadim
      Smirnov Vadim 20 September 2012 09: 49
      +1
      Quote: mongoose
      Duc and we have on the forum how many similar articles?


      When did we indiscriminately abuse ours? "Opinions" and "News" do not count, there are mostly not our articles, there are links to the original source.
      1. Konrad
        Konrad 20 September 2012 19: 25
        -3
        Quote: Smirnov Vadim
        When did we blaspheme our indiscriminately?

        Never!!! Always indiscriminately scolded not ours!
      2. Konrad
        Konrad 21 September 2012 06: 39
        0
        Quote: Smirnov Vadim
        When did we blaspheme our indiscriminately?

        Never!!! Always indiscriminately scolded not ours!
    2. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 20 September 2012 13: 18
      0
      What can you do if Mo is appointed a person far from the RF Armed Forces, but with big claims. And you hait those who, in their own skin, experienced the delights of a seller
    3. Fox
      Fox 20 September 2012 13: 49
      +3
      again the form ... bother to read the whole phrase about the cook ... or how silly it is ...
    4. 16
      16 20 September 2012 23: 10
      0
      tell it pimply !!!!!!!
  5. dimanf
    dimanf 20 September 2012 09: 38
    +5
    after loud statements by stools and makar. people are no longer surprised.
    therefore they believe.
  6. Butterfly net
    Butterfly net 20 September 2012 09: 57
    +5
    According to another anonymous author, comparative tests of the Pantsir-C1 and Tor-M2 anti-aircraft systems have already been conducted, which ended far from in favor of the first. "Shell-C1"

    How were two different classes compared? Tunguska and torus are different classes for different purposes.
    In general, as already mentioned, the only problem with the wheeled chassis is its lower cross-country ability compared to the tracked one.

    Funny At first they made a shell out of the tunguska. Now make us out of the shell of the tunguska say. This is what I understand is a frantic budget cut.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 20 September 2012 10: 53
      +6
      In general, as already mentioned, the only problem with the wheeled chassis is its lower cross-country ability compared to the tracked one.

      Only goose, on wheels behind the tanks is not ice ... The whole problem is in the Belarusian chassis, it is expensive for the Moscow Region, with this money Serdyukov’s harem can live for a whole week.
      1. sergey69
        sergey69 20 September 2012 20: 53
        0
        The Belarusian chassis in Tunguska was replaced by the Mytishchi GM-3975.
  7. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 20 September 2012 09: 59
    0
    "There is no smoke without fire"
  8. Alexxeg73
    Alexxeg73 20 September 2012 10: 11
    +20
    According to the head of the Center for Military Forecasting, Colonel Anatoly Tsygank, despite the failure of the "Shell", the Ministry of Defense will still have to equip the ground units with missile-cannon air defense systems.

    - Six years ago, a concept was adopted according to which the air defense units of the Ground Forces should be equipped with both anti-aircraft missile systems and cannon. Nobody has canceled this concept yet. Therefore, the Ministry of Defense will either have to finish the “Shell-C1”, or look for foreign counterparts that aren’t available right now, ”explained Tsyganok.

    "... On April 22, 2009, demonstration (for the command of the SukhVO) launches of two military air defense systems" Torm2 "and" PantsirS1 "took place.
    More precisely, comparative tests were first planned. Two "offices" (Tula KBP and "Antei") were even able to agree on the "purity" of the competition and the rules. Since their performance characteristics are very different. The TOP has a range of 12 km., And the “parameter” is 8 km., While the “Pantsyr” has a range of 20, but the parameter is about 4. They agreed on average - the parameter is 6.8 km. Decided on the target. They shot at the "Samans" ...
    At the same time, the “Shell” shot from its standard reinforced concrete test site, and the “Tor” turned around in the steppe and shot from the ground.
    The day before the official competition there were test launches. “Tor” - 1 missile, miss “0” (hit directly to the target), “Shell” 3 missiles, no hits recorded.
    In the morning the commander in chief arrived with the commission.
    We started shooting.
    The first to shoot were the Tula.
    Launched 2 targets. Found both. Consumption of one 3 missiles, the second 2. One eventually sat on the maximum range by parachute, the second seemed to fall, but also at a distance far exceeding the launch range. Video recording for some reason was married. There were no other means. As a result, they still counted her Tula.
    Then the Thor shot. 2 targets detected, two starts. Both targets were shot down.
    And then the Tula residents said they would still shoot. It turns out that these were not “competitions”, but a show. Then they started firing at the E-95. The “shell” fired at two targets. They walked with the parameter “O”. It was supposed to shoot at them in motion, but in reality the complex began to move only after taking targets for auto tracking. Both were shot down.
    The Torah was not allowed to be fired at. in terms of shooting parameters, he does not shoot on the go, but only with short stops, and he has already demonstrated all this.
    As a result, the commander-in-chief of the SukhVO Boldyrev said that he was very pleased with the shooting and that SukhVO would buy the Pantsyr, and the Tor, a 'good complex' ... "

    "... But the problem of the" Pantsyr "missile guidance method is that it actually works effectively only with the" parameter zero "- when the target goes directly to the point where the air defense system is located, i.e. on a straight line. But if the target passes through the firing zone at tangential trajectory and the rocket needs to "bend" on the trajectory, catching up with the target, then the rocket is simply lost. That is, the same "Shells" will not be able, for example, to shoot down targets that pass by them at the maximum distance, and if three "TOP" "they easily overlap each other, that in the same situation the" Shells "protect only their zones. This is the systemic flaw of the" Shell ", which manifested itself in ALL exercises. From this method of guidance follow its other shortcomings, which can be compensated without changing the rocket and the principle of guidance is simply impossible ... "
    1. PARROT
      PARROT 20 September 2012 10: 54
      0
      And on top of people like idiots, I do not understand them the main prestige within the country or defense? Some foolish upatriotic ...
      1. SHILO
        SHILO 20 September 2012 11: 33
        0
        PARROT
        ?!?!?!?!?!
  9. Wertynskiy
    Wertynskiy 20 September 2012 12: 48
    +3
    All this surprises me only one thing. Do we have the Ministry of Defense and the FSB shops for weaving brooms? Each such case of stuffing negative information should be investigated, the people responsible for the drain of information should be identified, the measures provided for by the laws of the Russian Federation should be applied to them. If the legislation is powerless, then just voice to the media who did it, name, position. And we ourselves will tear him to pieces. And so it just looks like an excuse for the Ministry of Defense.
    1. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 20 September 2012 13: 13
      0
      The head of the FSB "leaked" information about the Moscow prosecutors, fired (so as not to bark). YOU propose to close the information on the Moscow region, so that Mo Serdyukov and "K" continue to rebuild the RF Armed Forces into a "bardel"
    2. not good
      not good 20 September 2012 21: 09
      +1
      Yes, it’s strange somehow, Taburetkin doesn’t see such a good way to earn money. He sued the newspaper for libel, allegedly damaging the honor and dignity of the Moscow Region, and received compensation, and more.
  10. datur
    datur 20 September 2012 13: 01
    +2
    But is the shell not the further development of the tunguska? it would be more logical to upgrade the Tunguska to shells! they are full of troops!
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 21 September 2012 00: 17
      0
      different complexes, different tasks, even the elemental base is different.
  11. koosss
    koosss 20 September 2012 13: 04
    0
    you just need to introduce responsibility for misinformation and the quality of news will improve yes
    and then they publish any crap .. if only the thread was published "louder", got it already
  12. tambu
    tambu 20 September 2012 13: 21
    -1
    I do not like journalists ....
    1. Fox
      Fox 20 September 2012 13: 54
      +3
      you just don’t know how to cook them ... smile
    2. Ghosh
      Ghosh 23 September 2012 14: 09
      0
      You just don’t know how to cook them !!!! wink
  13. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 20 September 2012 13: 55
    +2
    And the law on slander is stalled laughing
  14. Alexxeg73
    Alexxeg73 20 September 2012 15: 18
    0
    Something is not clear. Either "Pantsir-C1" is mentioned, then simply "Pantsir-S". On the website of the Ministry of Defense it is written that it is the "Pantsir-S" that has been adopted and is already being supplied to the Aerospace Defense Forces. Here in the article ".... ZRPK" Pantsir-C1 "has been put into service, ten copies are already in operation in the Aerospace Defense Forces ...." On the website of the Ministry of Defense "... In September-October this year, the second on the account of the party ZRPK "Pantsir-S" ... "Here again about the" Pantsir-C1 "!
    Meanwhile, on the website of the Ministry of Defense: "... A modification of the Pantsir-S complex for the Ground Forces and the Navy is also being developed.
    Work is currently underway to adapt the Pantsir-С1 air defense system to the requirements for air defense weapons of general purpose. Upon their completion, a prototype of the complex will be submitted for military trials.
    Military tests of the complex have not yet been carried out. Only after their completion it will be possible to talk about when this complex will begin to enter service with the Ground Forces. "

    So, probably, all the same, it was a question of “Shell-C1” - a modification for land soldiers, which is not yet fit to fulfill its task of protecting precisely land units?
  15. ShturmKGB
    ShturmKGB 20 September 2012 15: 47
    +1
    Yes, this is another provocation, probably the shell is hindering someone, so they decided to remove it! (someone is apparently the CIA, mi6, waved)
  16. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 20 September 2012 16: 15
    0
    The article begins that the media has a tendency to blame MO. But just about the increase in salaries in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the media advertised the MO, of course, pretty lied about a real increase in salaries. So that here the author is wrong. Any equipment taken into service must comply with the requirements of the technical specifications of the Ministry of Defense, and must be adopted after actual testing and elimination of CIT.
  17. sergey261180
    sergey261180 20 September 2012 16: 52
    +6
    The shell has a very serious drawback: radio command missile guidance. When shooting on a Kamaz chassis, even on a flat surface it falls to its side, but what will happen on rough terrain? The frame is twisted when fired. It is not transported by rail. In short, they made a degraded version of the tunguska. Well, it's natural. Have they done anything better than the Soviet one in 20 years?
  18. bask
    bask 20 September 2012 17: 34
    +1
    Well, whoever is doing these informational bombs, causing huge image damage to the Russian military-industrial complex and Russia. Here is an example of a real informational war against Russia on our territory.
  19. Cupec76
    Cupec76 20 September 2012 17: 35
    +2
    Sergei let me disagree with the radio command guidance, most of the air defense systems have, The shell also has an optical channel besides the radar. I think the terrain at the Aeshuluk training ground is quite crossed, but there were no problems with movement. When shooting, it was not once that he fell on his side. Transported by train. and aviation. True machine guns are eating just a sea of ​​ammunition,
    1. sergey261180
      sergey261180 21 September 2012 16: 49
      0
      Modern electronics has reached such a level that it is possible to push an active seeker into such a small rocket. And the fact that most air defense systems are radio command is not good - it means that their calculations are kamikaze.
  20. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 20 September 2012 18: 30
    0
    There is an excellent "Thor" complex, it is not clear why duplicate it?
    If we adhere to the concept of a missile-cannon complex, then the missiles should be delivered much better, equipped with a marching engine, and having an increased firing range (up to 25 km). Such missiles are already available (based on the Belarusian Stiletto).
    In my opinion, the Shell should be finalized, optimized for (TUR) T382.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 21 September 2012 00: 14
      +1
      There is an excellent "Thor" complex, it is not clear why duplicate it?

      in general, there is a difference, at least in the name "TOP" - SAM, "Panntsir" - ZRAK (ZPRK), an analogue of the Tunguska for large air defense (air defense of the country) ...
  21. pechv
    pechv 20 September 2012 19: 56
    0
    Looks like someone decided to buy the shell and all this fuss has only one goal - to bring down the price?
  22. studentmati
    studentmati 20 September 2012 20: 59
    +2
    There is a fight for the buyer! The specialist can compare "Shell", "Thor" and here the forgotten "Wasp". Comparative moments with "Wasp" are many. "Wasp" has been operating from 1972 to the present (sad pictures of August 8, 2008 with open containers of "Georgian Wasps"). This is not true as a Russian cast-iron pan and tefal (cast iron will win, but tefal is in vogue and can be sold).
  23. wow
    wow 20 September 2012 21: 05
    +1
    For such "publications" and their chief editors, the 37th year is crying, damn it!
  24. st. michman
    st. michman 20 September 2012 21: 27
    +1
    Rave. A missile with this guidance system, not even yesterday, but the day before yesterday.
    1. studentmati
      studentmati 20 September 2012 23: 42
      +2
      The main thing is efficiency. The rocket of the day before yesterday shot down the stealth. Don't say it's an accident. This is the professionalism of the operators. implicated in love for the Motherland. The Wasp's close-knit crew will shoot down any fashionable complex. Time will pass. The "shell" will get used to it, and there will be a victory.
      1. smprofi
        smprofi 21 September 2012 00: 14
        +1
        studentmati, well, let's start with the fact that the F-117A Nighthawk is not exactly an airplane, but just a specialized flying platform that can fly like a crowbar in a straight line. and continue with the fact that the S-125 Neva / Pechora directs the V-600P missile launcher to the target by commands from the SNR. and SNR S-125 has a television optical sight. and all the advertised technology stealth right up to samysenkoy ...
        but the professionalism of the operators - yes, it’s worth a lot
  25. rocketman
    rocketman 20 September 2012 23: 55
    -3
    this is when the S-300V shot at more than 100 kilometers? Something I do not know. In the Tunguska air defense system there are 5 modes of fire, 4 of them (main) are cannon, and only the second is rocket. As for me, we in Ukraine have already dabbled in the purchase of shells for Euro 2, but, thank God, they figured it out and refused. The complex in nature is very damp and sloppy, it only looks menacing. And Thor is a really serious and sensible machine, as for PVo. And behind the shells are infantry generals who really need a modernized "shaitan-arba" in order to wet the spirits with large-caliber shells. Draw your own conclusions.
  26. Cupec76
    Cupec76 21 September 2012 00: 23
    +1
    The S-300V cannot shoot further than 75 km because it is an infantry modification of the S-300PS, and the S-300PMU and PMU2 calmly take targets for 150 km. I don’t know how in the land defense, but in the facility it is important to cover the complex itself, the task of the shell is to achieve the missed goals, and as for the flaws, they are in any complex, I didn’t hear armor about the intentions to buy Ukraine, I know that the Syrians just bought it, the cannon was at the training ground picked up even large fragments of targets.

    By the way, the shell is not the modernization of the Tunguska, it is the development of the marine complex, I don’t remember the name, I know that there are
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 21 September 2012 00: 33
      +3
      S-300V cannot shoot further than 75 km because it is an infantry modification of the S-300PS

      The S-300V Antey-300 anti-aircraft missile system (GRAU MO-9K81 index) is not part of the S-300 PT / PS / PMU / F family of air defense systems. In fact, it is a separate development of another design bureau (the lead developer of the S-300V air defense system as a whole, as well as the developer of the control gear, multichannel missile guidance station, and programmatic survey radar). and specified funds.). Designed for anti-aircraft missile units of the Ground Forces of the Soviet Army. It was in service with anti-aircraft missile brigades of district subordination.
      Technical characteristics of SAM S-300VM
      The far boundary of the defeat km, km
      - aerodynamic target 200
      - ballistic target up to 40
      The upper limit of target destruction, km
      - aerodynamic target 30
      - ballistic target up to 30
      Maximum speed of a ballistic target, m / s 4
      Minimum EPR of a ballistic target, m2 0,02
      Deployment / coagulation time, min. 5/5
      Rocket preparation time for launch, from 7

      But I do not know the TTX S-300V4, but I think no worse than the VM ...
  27. Cupec76
    Cupec76 21 September 2012 00: 50
    +1
    Sorry, I really thought that the S-300v PS modification, I will know, thanks
  28. LOMiK
    LOMiK 21 September 2012 09: 17
    0
    There is no smoke without fire, the main thing is to objectively approach the matter, so that you don’t pay with blood later!
    http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2012-09-21/1_two_fronts.html
  29. pinachet
    pinachet 21 September 2012 13: 17
    +3
    was at the training camp in the air defense forces in 2007.
    the battalion commander where I was at the training camp for a month, was at the exercises in "Ashuluk" where his division conducted training firing and the first serial samples of the "shell" were fired in the same place .., so this "uncle" (senior officer with great experience, with us one in the c300 control room performed training launches on electronic targets) from the "shell" was indescribable delight and said that if this thing is massively among the troops, then everything will be fine ..
    really praised his electronic stuffing, performance. said that
    it is well suited to protect the c300 itself from helicopters, etc.
    1. st. michman
      st. michman 21 September 2012 13: 59
      +2
      On the lack of fish, and with our Pros, a rocket that stands with cancer will hit the target (a joke from hopelessness). But seriously eating, the troops will enjoy everything more or less new. And they will learn how to use it so that Westerners will break their super-smart heads for a long time and calculate on supercomputers that this is generally why it generally flies or swims (travels ...) and how to deal with it.
  30. 16
    16 21 September 2012 23: 40
    0
    And for me it would be much more interesting would be-SENSATIVE NEWS-PRO Serdyukov and Makarov!
  31. smother
    smother 22 September 2012 09: 04
    0
    In one newspaper they write one thing - in another completely opposite, and one can argue for years over black symbols on a white background, in fact, no one has ever seen these combat shootings, and whoever saw it is unlikely to write here.
    I heard that the Arabs who ordered the shell were very pleased with its high effectiveness in hitting any kind of targets, it is unlikely that the Arab Emirates began to buy ineffective weapons, because they choose from the best in the world by competition, although again all this can be disinfectant.
    And the main thing for journalists is not objective reporting of events, but drawing attention to their newspapers, which is why they constantly write all sorts of fake sensations ...
  32. Ghosh
    Ghosh 23 September 2012 14: 22
    0
    I think it's time to change the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation in relation to slander and treason, so that journalists, before writing, would think hard about the consequences, and not suck the sensation out of the member ... knowingly knowing that they will get nothing for it. The Western "free" press does not allow itself this because they know they will shut them down and give out a striped robe.
  33. Patriot
    Patriot 24 September 2012 10: 35
    0
    By the way, people. Or maybe this complex is not so good? For, about the same S-300 and S-400 never said anything bad. Is not it?
  34. cobra
    cobra 16 October 2012 00: 00
    0
    Training firing at the firing range is VERY different from real combat firing. It's like hunting chickens in a chicken coop is different from hunting wild geese in a field). In the exercises, the crews take places long before the firing, it is known from which direction and most importantly WHEN the targets will fly, of which there are rarely more than two. Well, the human factor ... Relations with those who decide the CREDIT-NOT CARRY) Those who are in the subject will understand) Tunguska, as far as I know, has never shown herself to herself in real life. And the rest is all words ...