Work is in progress: repair and modernization of "Admiral Chabanenko"

"Admiral Chabanenko" in its original configuration

The repair and modernization of the large anti-submarine ship "Admiral Chabanenko" pr. 1155.1 has begun. It is planned to restore the technical readiness of structures and systems, as well as to replace electronic and missile weapons. As a result of such events, the combat capabilities of the ship will significantly increase, and it will be transferred from the BOD to the frigate class.

Awaiting renovation

Since 2014, the BOD "Admiral Chabanenko" has been at the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center, awaiting repair and modernization. For various reasons and circumstances, the start of work was repeatedly postponed. As it became known later, this was due to the need to develop and approve a new project of deep modernization.

The situation began to change this year. In July, Izvestia, citing its sources in the Defense Ministry, announced the completion of preparations for repairs and modernization. By that time, the customer and the contractor had agreed on a work plan for "Admiral Chabanenko" and proceeded to assess the timing of their implementation.

At the same time, new technical details became known. According to Izvestia, BPK pr. 1155.1 must undergo modernization, similar to the project for updating the previous project 1155. It is planned to replace the main missile systems and install the most modern models. In particular, the Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile will be integrated.

As a result of such modernization, the potential and combat capabilities of "Admiral Chabanenko" will go far beyond the original anti-submarine role. In this regard, the ship will be reclassified from BOD to frigates. In this case, the ship will retain 1 rank.

Start of work

Repair work started in August 2021. For the first stage of work, the ship arrived at the Nerpa shipyard in Snezhnogorsk and docked in dry dock. The task of the plant employees was to study the state of hull structures and various units in order to search for damage, defects, etc. with their subsequent elimination.

On December 22, on the air of the Murman State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company, the Nerpa team reported on the work performed. Despite the complexity and volume of repairs, the work was completed in just a few months. The required condition of the hull, kingston boxes, ship tanks, various fittings, etc. has been restored. To accomplish such tasks, the corps crews had to work in three shifts.

As reported, in the near future "Admiral Chabanenko" will be launched again, after which it will be delivered to the shipyard in Murmansk. The next stage of repairs will take place there and modernization will be carried out, providing for the replacement of equipment and weapons. According to Murman, the modernization will be completed in 2022-23.

On December 27, Izvestia raised the topic of work on "Admiral Chabanenko". According to his source in the Ministry of Defense, the implemented schedule really provides for the completion of all work by the end of 2023. After that, the ship will return to the combat strength of the Northern fleet - already in a new quality and with wider possibilities.

Modernization goals

The aim of the modernization of the existing BOD is to replace a number of radio and radar equipment, weapons, etc. The latest and very detailed data on this subject was disclosed by RIA on December 27 News... This message confirms plans to expand the range of weapons and a corresponding change in the range of tasks to be solved.

The upgraded frigate will receive a 3C-14 universal shipborne firing system with cells for various types of missiles. Thanks to this, the ship will be able to use cruise missiles "Caliber" for various purposes, as well as anti-ship products "Onyx" and "Zircon". The total ammunition load of such UKSK will be 16 missiles.

The launchers of the P-270 Mosquito anti-ship missiles will be removed. The vacated areas will host four installations of the Uranus complex for 16 missiles. Thus, the total ammunition load of the strike missile armament will reach 32 units.

The air defense of the ship and the formation will be provided by the modern Pantsir-M missile and cannon system. This product will replace the existing Kortik complex.

The installation of new radar stations was mentioned. Other modern radio-electronic and radio-technical equipment will also be installed. However, specific names and indexes were not named.

"Marshal Shaposhnikov" project 1155 on sea trials after modernization

The RIA Novosti source specified the work schedule. Repair of structures and installation of new equipment will be completed during the next 2022. In the fourth quarter, the ship is planned to be put on sea trials. The dates for their completion have not been named, but it is clear that no later than the end of 2023, the updated frigate will return to the fleet.

Potential growth

One of the main and most noticeable goals of the modernization of "Admiral Chabanenko" is the replacement of standard weapons. It is she who will provide a sharp expansion of the range of tasks to be solved and the growth of other combat qualities, as a result of which the BOD will become a frigate. The latest news about the planned composition of weapons allows us to assess the potential of the updated ship.

First of all, "Admiral Chabanenko" will expand its strike capabilities. In the initial configuration, the BOD carried only eight P-270 Mosquito missiles. As a result of the modernization, it will receive 16 Kh-35 missiles, and will also be able to carry the required number of Onyxes and Zircons. In addition, it will be possible to attack coastal targets using Caliber missiles. According to the latest news, the former BOD will be able to use the latest anti-submarine missiles "Answer".

As a result, the total number of missiles on board will grow exponentially. At the same time, missile armament will become more effective and flexible, and the ship will be able to attack with them not only surface targets. It is important that the renewal of missile weapons will practically not affect anti-submarine capabilities.

Rocket launch "Answer" from the board of "Marshal Shaposhnikov"

Replacing the existing ZRAK "Kortik" with modern systems "Pantsir-M" will improve the air defense of the ship and / or detachment. The new ZRPK has a number of important advantages over the older one. This is an increased range of tracking and firing targets, the ability to track and intercept complex objects, etc.

The exact composition of electronic weapons after modernization remains unknown. However, we can expect that with him "Admiral Chabanenko" will increase the detection range of surface and air targets, incl. subtle. The reliability of tracking and the accuracy of the use of weapons will also increase. New communication systems will provide full and secure data exchange in any conditions.

Thus, the modernized frigate will retain the main structures, power plant and part of general ship systems - and will update all other complexes, devices and products. Due to this, he will be able to fully fight not only with submarines and, in fact, will become a universal warship. According to some estimates, the upgraded ship will even exceed the requirements for frigates in terms of its capabilities and in fact will become a "mini-cruiser".

Major program

At the moment in the combat strength of our Navy there are seven ships of project 1155 and one representative of the later project 1155.1. According to the plans of the Ministry of Defense, in the long term, they will all undergo modernization with the replacement of key systems and weapons. And recent news shows that the implementation of such plans is quite realistic.

So, in April 2021, the updated Marshal Shaposhnikov returned to the Pacific Fleet, and Admiral Vinogradov took his place at the repair enterprise. Work on it will be completed in 2025. Right now, the Admiral Chabanenko of the Northern Fleet is preparing for a new stage of modernization, which is to return to service in 2023.

Thus, as a result of a difficult and slow program of modernization of available ships, the Russian fleet will receive up to eight "mini-cruisers" with the widest possibilities. This will make it possible to keep high-ranked large ships in service, extend their service life, and bring their capabilities in line with current requirements.

Comments

[Aerodrome]

from destroyers to frigates ... it's like from "graphs" to "graphs".

[fa2998]

Not in frigates, but in "mini-cruisers."

[75 Sergey]

Better right on the hull, so that they would stand ready with hydrants.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

The laugh is that from the BOD to the frigates is a descent.

[arkadiyssk]

All this laughter is forced. Everything was invented so that it would be possible to attach Captains of the 1st rank somewhere. The titles remained from the USSR, and the ships of the first rank from the USSR survived nothing. So they invented the division Frigate Grigorovich is a patrol frigate, well, as it was in the Union. But frigate 22350 Gorshkov is already a First Rank Frigate! Although in fact the ships are the same 4k versus 4.5k. And in order to secure this luck as real, they came up with - to lower all the destroyers of the first rank to the frigates.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: arkadiyssk

All this laughter is forced

And I never said that laughter is funny.

[3danimal]

Why? There appeared the possibility of strikes on land (Caliber), the use of modern PLUR, like they were going to put the Packet-NK. 16 cells UKSK - this is up to 16 "Onyx" or 2-stage anti-ship missiles 3M54 (IMHO, they are more interesting) which is solid. Flexibility in loading weapons, for the desired task.
The ship has definitely gotten better. And unlike the dying EM pr 956, it has a normal viable GEM.

[S. Nikolaev]

And unlike the dying EM pr 956

Three pieces of them, it seems, are left. They seem to be repairing it, but nowhere did I find information that there were plans to replace the regular "Hurricane" with "Shtil1". Although, it would seem, it, after all, suggests itself. That is, with a "light movement of the hand" an old espoon can be transformed into a powerful air defense destroyer.

[3danimal]

That is, with a "light movement of the hand" an old espoon can be transformed into a powerful air defense destroyer.

EM pr. 956 has an extremely problematic power plant with boiler and turbine installations. Precisely because of their rapid coming into disrepair, most of the EMs were decommissioned (in contrast to the BOD 1155 with a gas turbine of high reliability and resource).

[Barberry25]

the main thing is to let the fog go .. we and corvettes are not corvettes, but light frigates according to the Europeans, And the mrk just fall under the corvettes, and the SuperGots are already being pulled into the section of destroyers, I would not be surprised if it turns out that our destroyers will be equal to the Cruisers

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

I hope you understand that our potential enemy is not at all stupid. And he is purple how we classify our own ships. They are only interested in the weapons installed on these ships and their number.

[Barberry25]

therefore ours will install anti-ship missiles on all ships that they can

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Aerodrome

from destroyers to frigates

He, it seems, has never been a destroyer.
BOD - Large Anti-Submarine Ship, "In accordance with the name of the class ships are intended primarily to combat potential enemy submarines in the oceanic zone ...."
That is, it was highly specialized. After modernization "Marshal Shaposhnikov" (the same project 1155), thanks to equipping with shock weapons, it became a frigate - a universal ship that is capable of fighting not only underwater, but also against surface and ground targets.

[Barberry25]

problems of the Soviet fleet-narrow specialization of ships .. the Americans with their Oliver Perry solved a bunch of problems

[Kaufman]

well, that's right, why are the minuses sticking in ...

[Barberry25]

because anyone can put minuses, but they cannot admit the fact that the Soviet fleet had a bunch of problems and the admirals made mistakes.

[this]

There, everything is not clear at all, sometimes they simply could not push it anymore, but where they pushed it into service it was disgusting and repaired in the same way. Sometimes the specialization was better.

[Barberry25]

the fact of the matter is that the Americans began to rivet from the 75th year, and Chabanenko was laid down as the first real frigate only in the 90th year. If we want to get a fleet, then we need our own "Oliver Perry" i.e. you need a massive corvette for defense of a 500 mile zone, separately in 1 mile and DMZ ... I personally see options here only in SuperKarakurt converted to Kolomna diesel with Pantsir air defense and anti-submarine equipment and UVP ... Launching improved 000 on Yantar and launching the budget version 11356 with the development of improved Pots ..

[this]

Yes, it seems we are building something. Here, first of all, we must not forget that ships are very expensive, and we somehow do not have very many seas, we are by no means a maritime power. Now it is much more convenient to build a civilian fleet, and spend more on other areas of the military budget, with which they are constantly fighting. Well, the near zone generally seems to me to be behind the drones, and the flying gunboats would be nice too.

[3danimal]

I personally see options here only in SuperKarakurt converted to a Kolomna diesel engine with Armor air defense and anti-submarine equipment and UVP .. Launching improved 11356 on Yantar and launching the budget version 20380 with the development of improved Pots ..

You propose to spray production on different types of ships. It is interesting that the rich USA are building themselves "Burks" in a large series. It is wise to take an example.
Limit only corvettes 20380/385 and frigates 22350. Optimization, unification ..

[Barberry25]

I wonder what you read? I just propose to abandon the construction of highly specialized ships such as the Buyan / Karakurt and patrolmen such as Vasily Bykov in favor of universal patrol ships with an ASW function and the presence of strike weapons - in fact, an analogue of the Chinese corvette type 056. The reason is that most of those shipyards that are now building RTOs cannot build corvettes 20385, not to mention the price ... instead of 1 corvette 20385, you can build 2 patrol boats based on Karakurt, as well as about the timing - with the right approach, you can get 5-6 ships per a year, and not 1-2 corvettes as it is now. Also, the fleet has a request to replace old MRK and MPK in the amount of 75 units at least, but in reality the fleet needs at least 100 Super Karakurt patrol boats, and this will allow you to quickly update the fleet and provide a stable load , and let the same engines from Zvezda go to the PMO ships.

[3danimal]

I propose to abandon the construction of highly specialized ships of the MRK Buyan / Karakurt type and patrolmen of the Vasily Bykov type

I completely agree here
But he proposed to go even further: to build only 2 types of ships of 1 (1,5) and 2 ranks, frigates 22350 and corvettes 20380/385. Without any tossing like "Superporshkov" ("the best is the enemy of the good") and 20386.

The reason is that most of those shipyards that are now building RTOs cannot build corvettes 20385

So much the "worse" for the shipyards - it is necessary to start up for modernization, at least a part (tomorrow there will be no war, if we do not start it, so over time there will be no problems).
Most of the corvettes will be 20380 (without UKSK), they are simpler and cheaper. But - with good air defense and anti-aircraft defense.
Objectively, we cannot afford dozens of conventional "Berks", but, say, 30+ corvettes and 10+ frigates - quite and in the foreseeable future. The result is an easy-to-maintain (and crew training) fleet of 2 types of modern ships of rank 1 and 2.

[Barberry25]

the question of money and shipyards .. Now 17 ships of the MRK / patrolman are laid down and are being built, this is equivalent to 8 corvettes. And you need to understand that a corvette or Super Karakurt will perform a number of tasks in the same way, only Super will be cheaper. And the most important thing is the construction time, when switching to Kolomna engine, you can build watchdogs in 3 years, i.e. after 3 years, you can get 5 ships per year, i.e. In 10 years, the fleet will receive 35 ships that will cover the significant need of the fleet for PLO BMZ, and in the Mediterranean or the Japanese they will be in a stream, so to speak. And how many corvettes can be built conventional? over these 1 years, the fleet will receive 2-10 units at best. everyone, i.e. it is possible, where corvettes are now being built, to start building ships with a displacement of 15 thousand tons and powerful shock weapons. those. there will be a quality transition

[3danimal]

Now 17 MRK ships / patrolman have been laid and are being built, this is equivalent to 8 corvettes

In terms of PLO - equal to 0 corvettes. In the part of air defense - on the strength of 4.
RTOs are almost unarmed before an air attack and are completely helpless against submarines.
(Ok, "Karakurt" is more toothy in terms of air defense, roughly comparable to 20380, except for "Guarding", and only therefore - 4)

and soon, medium-speed diesel engines from Kolomna of 10 thousand hp will do. each

IMHO - the lack of capacity for the production of something (in our case, engines) is solved by adjusting additional plants. And the modernization (at least part) of the shipyards that cannot cope: 2000t corvettes are not very large, mega-slipways are not required.
The F-35 program is an example of this - factories have been built from scratch for the large-scale production of several thousand units of one aircraft. Everything is possible.
A separate question arises why, after the unsuccessful experience of buying diesel engines from the Chinese, they did not try to negotiate with the Koreans (the South, of course)? They have developed shipbuilding and the production of ship engines.

start building ships with a displacement of 3,5 thousand tons and powerful strike weapons. those. there will be a quality transition

Earlier you said:

not to mention the price .. instead of 1 corvette 20385, you can build 2 patrol boats based on Karakurt

It's just that 20385 is completely self-sufficient in the coastal zone, can do everything, only weaker armed. It can cover the same SSBNs in patrol areas 22350 - much more expensive, more seaworthy, their number should be less.
So far, everything goes to the point that we will get a bunch of varieties of patrol boats and RTOs that take away production capacity and money from more important areas of fleet construction.

[Barberry25]

I mean in terms of price, and yes, if shipyards could build purely corvettes, they would build them .. The key problem is in capacities. Moreover, RTOs or patrol boats based on them are in fact a worked-out series, and the key problem is in the engines , which is decided by the transition to Kolomna, but our corvettes are only being worked out in the coming years. Regarding "adjust everything and more, and then produce on this" - this is at least 10 years to wait and without any guarantee of the result. About corvettes .. If performance characteristics are important for you, then let's build only frigates? Do not ask why they are built very few? .. Everything always rests not on Wishlist, but in the fact that it is POSSIBLE to build .. And the reality is that a patrol on the basis of Karakurt will cost 12 billion rubles, and the corvette 20385 costs 25 billion rubles ... And given that we need dozens of ships, it turns out that for one amount, say 500 billion rubles, we can build 40 patrol boats with identical strike weapons, good air defense and PLO, moreover, each of the fleets will receive 10 patrol boats, which will cover the needs of the fleet for the OVR BMZ, or 20 corvettes, which are barely enough to complete current tasks .. This is money, and now the time frame: 40 patrol boats can be built from the beginning of the bookmark now in 10 years, and the corvettes, taking into account the bookmark, are now only in 15 years in the most optimistic versions, and if we abandon the MPK and MRK, then we will need not 20 corvettes, but 50, but better 60 units ... and this is many times larger the amounts and terms will stretch for half a century.

[Barberry25]

to understand .. We have been building corvettes since 2001 and only 8 have been built in service in 20 years .. MRK and patrolmen have been building since 2010 and 15 units have been in service in 11 years. If we want to solve the problems of the fleet in terms of the obsolescence of the composition, then we need a universal and cheap, which means a massive ship, and then a patrol boat based on Karakurt is the best option, the same Chinese riveted their 056 corvettes in the amount of 72 pieces for themselves ... Why not take into account this experience and build a ship with a displacement of 1 tons with a 300 mm cannon, an air defense for 76 units, a package, a Pantsir as the basic air defense and, in theory, you can supply the Sosna air defense system by increasing the number of missiles to it to 8 as a short-range air defense. The ship will be able to sail up to 18 miles and within a month ... this will focus on the construction of frigates for the DMZ

[3danimal]

Why not take this experience into account and build a ship with a displacement of 1 tons with a 300 mm cannon, a UVP for 76 units, By package, Carapace as basic AA defense

For effective use of PLUR and "Packet-NK", corvette 20385 uses:
Intra-keel GAS "Dawn-2"
Towed GAS "Minotaur-M"

For air defense, in addition to the actual "Redoubt" launchers with missiles, there are:
Furke-2 general detection radar
Target design radar URO "Monument-A".

Etc. It will not work out of a rank 3 ship to make a more or less sane anti-submarine, comparable to our own corvette stuffed to the teeth with weapons
(With air defense also tears)
IMHO, for some cost reduction, you can partly continue to build the 20380s, BUT, again, they will not be able to use PLUR, which is important.

It is possible and necessary to build watchdogs purely for the work of border services, but here the UKSK cells, which are more needed for corvettes and higher, will obviously be superfluous.
Without them, the cost will decrease radically, here is the optimal solution.

[Barberry25]

1) i.e. Is it possible to put 2 hydroacoustic stations on a 1-ton Albatross, but on a 000-ton patrol boat is no longer possible?
2) As I already wrote, the patrol air defense will provide Pantsir-M and the ship's radar, and on the Corvettes, the lion's share of the cost is just the radars. "We need a Redoubt with 9M96E2 .. I repeat, no need to engage in gigantomania. The fleet needs a workhorse that will look for enemy submarines, can repel a missile raid and launch missiles at the outer control center, or do you propose to send one patrol boat into battle against the destroyer?

[3danimal]

2 hydroacoustic stations per 1 ton Albatross can be

Weak characteristics
A priori, they will be much inferior to those installed on the Corvette.

we need a Redoubt with 9M96E2

With "Furke-2" more than enough 9m96e (50km) and 9m100
Here is just the principle of reasonable sufficiency, on many corvettes with Mk41 only ESSMs with a similar range are used.

The fleet needs a workhorse that will look for enemy submarines, can repel a missile raid and launch missiles at an external control center

And use PLUR. And the best candidate is 20385.

propose to send one patrol ship into battle against a destroyer?

Against the "Burk" of the last "flights" (a floating arsenal with a very sophisticated radar and electronic warfare), you will need a mini-fleet with aviation support.
But the same SSBN cover ships may be needed. And "Super-Karakurt" will cover itself more

[Barberry25]

hmm .. here you write .. you write, but people do not read, the task is not to get a wunderwave, the task is to get a WORK HORSE., we still need to look for a replacement for 75 RTOs and IPCs, so it is better to get 75 patrols that can carry out patrol functions and anti-submarine, than to "give birth" a year to 2 corvettes with a dream in 20 years to solve a problem that can be solved in 10 years for a lesser amount. .e. its detection will be at the level of -9-96 km maximum, 50 km is the Pantsir-M range, the SM version has a range of up to 9 km, i.e. is quite comparable to the range of the Redoubt, not to mention the fact that the Shell carries 100 missiles in the base + as I said, install the Sosna air defense system with an increased ammunition range of up to 20 missiles on a launcher for the close circle. if its price will not change since the main price is air defense radar and control center. Karakurt must cover himself, and in the event of a major mess, he can act as part of a warrant and cover other large NKs and submarines. Also, patrolmen will be able to ensure the deployment of strategic missile carriers trivially due to their number and cruising range of 40 miles. And how many corvettes can the shipyard deliver? Five pieces in 20 years? 40-32 pieces in 18 years? and this is on condition that I take into account those that are now laid down and are being built, but if we take from scratch, then only 3-500 pieces will be able to hand over in 3 years, but in 8 years the patrolmen will be able to hand over 9 units. There is such a principle, already given by Lenin "a step back or two forward", it is better to build ships that can be built in large quantities than to give birth to a piece product for many years, this is by the way an example of frigates of the Grigorovich project, which at the construction stage all blamed and cursed for "obsolete and weakened armament ", only it turned out that the Grigorovichs began to build 6 years later and handed over 3 pieces to the fleet, and if it were not for the problem with the Ukrainian engines, the fleet would already have 4-6 frigates, but the Gorshkovs laid down in 6 and the fleet has only 15 ships at the moment, that's the whole point ..

[3danimal]

the task is to get a WORKING HORSE., we still need to look for a replacement for the 75th MRK and IPC

I suggested a compromise:
patrol boat with Carapace or "Kortik", 76mm AU and smaller;
Corvette 20380/385
Frigates 22350.
The first to build a lot for the border guards, the second and third - to gradually increase production to the minimum sufficient quantity to be enough for defense.
When industry and economy allow - think about something else

About 9m96e from 50 km and 9m100 ... the key threat to the anti-ship missile ship, which flies along a low profile, i.e. its detection will be at the level of -20-40 km maximum, 20 km is the Pantsir-M range, for the SM version the range is already up to 40 km

The Pantsir has a "small" drawback: its missiles have missile guidance (vulnerable to electronic warfare), and the radar must "look" towards the target before her defeat... As a result, 2-4 Harpoons / NSMs from different courses ("star" raid) will overload it, even if it has at least 100 missiles ..
The redoubt will shoot back until 360 'of ammunition is depleted.
And radar 20380 you will not fit on Karakurt + size.
Let me also remind you that the range is indicated for a non-maneuvering target, so the 9m96e and 9m100 will be better for a flying "snake" anti-ship missile system.

By the way, this is an example of frigates of the Grigorovich project

Frigates of 3,5 thousand tons are still something different from 1000-ton patrol boats. Other autonomy, seaworthiness... They and the flag around the world can demonstrate, go across the ocean.

[Barberry25]

the border guards have Diamonds and they don’t need the function of anti-aircraft defense and anti-aircraft defense, they drive poachers, , it must then fly up. Not to mention the fact that the optical channel cannot be suppressed. And yes, I did not say that you need to install a radar from 76. About the "flying snake", but at least in an arc - for an anti-aircraft missile it is not important .. I will repeat - no need for gigantomania, this is a small displacement ship, and you will eventually come back to "he must fight with a destroyer" -3 harpoons is half a volley of a large NK so how to dream about DMZ and okyans do you need to cover the coast and the 20380-mile zone, or will you cover it with frigates?

[3danimal]

[quote] for an anti-aircraft missile, this is not important
[/ Quote]
Here you are greatly mistaken: the missile launcher has a solid propellant with a short operating time, it loses energy in all these maneuvers. Therefore, in aerial combat, no one launches explosive missiles at the maximum range.
[quote] and you will eventually come back to "he must fight the destroyer
[/ Quote]
And in my thoughts was not. I told:
Against the "Burk" of the last "flights" (a floating arsenal with a very sophisticated radar and electronic warfare), you will need a mini-fleet with aviation support.

[quote] 4 harpoons is half a salvo of a large NK
[/ Quote]
Half a salvo of something like the Israeli Saar-5 Corvette. (Which is good at everything except PLO).
[quote] you need to cover the coast and 200 mile zone
[Quote]
With 5 points, 200 miles from the coast, Super-Karakurt will be almost incapable of combat.
[quote] or will you cover it with frigates? [/ quote]
Frigates, corvettes and patrol boats (from a ratio of 1: 3: 9 very approximately).

[Barberry25]

lol, the rocket is not controlled by the engine, but by the rudders and it is not critical to hit the oncoming target, because in any case, even when maneuvering, the missile does not jump 50 meters to the side .. About the "proportions", you already decide, then write that patrols are not needed , then they are already needed, but earlier they wrote that they do not need UVP, only without UVP their combat value is near-zero ... And yes, an important point - we have NO frigates now, deliveries of 1-2 MAXIMUM in a few years without any guarantee, supply of corvettes rub around "we'll put maybe 1, maybe 2 per year" and similarly without guarantees .. Therefore, it is necessary to take and build light corvettes / patrols on the basis of Karakurt and not treat .. that's all, the conversation is over, I'm tired of repeating the same thing, you first build at least 10 frigates in 15 years, and then cover something with them

[3danimal]

lol, the rocket is controlled not by the engine, but by the rudders

The engine runs for 3-4 seconds, then free (controlled) flight. Every maneuver rudders - noticeable loss of speed.
The width of the snake can be 500 meters and the missile defense system will be forced to adjust the course with rudders (in the turbojet engine and in fuel it is not limited in this situation).
Plus the means of electronic warfare, and they bring down the RK guidance (for example, with the Israeli "Delilah" in Syria against the Shell).

without UVP, their combat value is near-zero

Can be armed with 4-8 "Uranus"

you need to take and build light corvettes / patrols at the base of Karakurt

It will not work, but 20380 has already been fully mastered.

first build at least 10 frigates in 15 years, and then cover something with them

It's good if at least 20 years old, with our capabilities ..

[3danimal]

Watchdogs, in any case, could continue to be built at the shipyards of JSC "Pella" and JSC "Zelenodolsk Plant named after A. M. Gorky"

[3danimal]

the task is not to get a wunderwaffe

This is more likely to "Super-Gorshkov", 20386, not to mention the uber-destroyers-battleships a'la "one-accelerate-the-US fleet"

[Barberry25]

the task is to get cheap and a lot, and the Shell with Pine is enough for a ship of 1 tons

[3danimal]

A shell with a Pine for a ship of 1 tons is enough for the eyes

Enough, I don’t argue. But this ship will not be able to perform a wide range of tasks like a corvette.
A corvette, which will cover both SSBNs from MAPL hunters, and ships nearby from air attacks, and not just themselves.
After all, otherwise you can again come to the Soviet concept of highly specialized ships (like the bundle 1155-956)
And production needs to be put in order ..

[Barberry25]

I see no reason to repeat the same thing several times, corvettes at this stage are single ships, and if we consider them in version 20385, then they are not at all in the fleet except for the head Thundering and the next 4 years will not be accurate, but you can continue dreaming about them .. ...

[3danimal]

corvettes at this stage are single ships

20380: 7 units are in service, 2 are conducting mooring tests, 1 is preparing for them (they promise to transfer to the fleet by the end of the year).
Thus, in 2023 in service there will be 10 pieces of corvettes 20380 (which can no longer be called single ships).
20385: 1 ("Thundering") in the ranks, another 1 "Pro (thief?) Thief" burned down, being in a high degree of readiness.
These ships are built by 2 shipyards:
PJSC "Shipyard" Severnaya Verf "(most of them) and PJSC" Amur Shipyard ".
By timeline for 20380:

For 20385:

There is a trend: reduction of construction time (between laying and handing over to the customer) to 5-6 years for 20380.
20385 is still under construction for about 8 years, the plans promise to bring it to the same 5-6 years (it would be good, but time will tell).
In addition to the speed of construction, the number of ships laid down and under construction in parallel is important.
But one of the aforementioned shipyards ("Amurskiy") is also building "Karakurt" at the same time and there were contracts for their production (terminated) for "Severnaya"! Question: how many capacities and berths does the construction of 22800 take?

It can be seen that 22800 are being built 2 times faster.
But your proposed option for a larger displacement with a mini-GAS will be more difficult and inevitably longer in construction, I suppose - up to + 50%.
The question is: wouldn't it be better, instead of dispersing the forces of the shipyards to produce at least 2 types of ships, to build only one (in 2 subtypes)? And to direct efforts both to reduce both the construction time and to increase the number of newly laid ships by year?

[Barberry25]

you know such a saying, the enemy of the good is better ... In fact, from 23rd to 26th year we WILL NOT have supplies of corvettes to the fleet from the word at all, your assumptions, only assumptions and even if "about horror", not to mention that the key problem of the protracted construction of Karakurt is the lack of engines from Zvezda, which disrupted supplies. Replace them with Kolomensky engines and they will build for 5 years, and 3-4 years. and most importantly, they will be built by 4 factories at once

[3danimal]

lack of engines from Zvezda, which disrupted supplies. Replace with Kolomna engines and they will build for 5 years, and for 3-4 years

IMHO, these are questions of organization and additional. production facilities.
GE and MTU build enough for themselves and sell them all over the world.

will build 4 factories at once

I would still suggest factories capable of building corvettes and, what is larger, not overloading them with "bicycles".
Let them be built by JSC "Pella" and JSC "Zelenodolsk plant named after A. M. Gorky"

[Barberry25]

And you will give the money? 100 billion for the construction of new shipyards, by the way, but will you get the personnel out of thin air? And as I said, construction is 10 years, i.e. not earlier than by the end of the 30s we will receive some kind of corvettes ... a brilliant proposal. I have already voiced the problem, the childish wishes of the Moreman and Mriya about gigantomania, which do not even lie close to reality. and everything is justified "well, we want 30 knots, not 27!" .. kindergarten, not military

[3danimal]

will you give the money? 100 billion for the construction of new shipyards

We are among the top ten owners of luxury yachts, incl. with a displacement like a cruiser (over 10000 tons).
I am sure that their owners are able to finance the modernization and expansion of shipyards, and perhaps, in a fit of patriotism, even sell megayachts for this task. (idea for a billion)

not earlier than by the end of the 30s we will receive some kind of corvettes

Not some corvettes, but light frigates, according to the western classification. Having good air defense, anti-aircraft defense and a helicopter, by the way.
An important point: at 22800 no and a helipad and a hangar.
Complete helplessness against the PL.

[Barberry25]

the sophistry went about “let the Aligarchs finance, I’m a strategist, not a tactician.” About a helipad, it makes no sense to place it on a small ship, since because of the excitement even at 3 points it will not be possible to raise a helicopter, I already wrote above that instead of salivating and talking about "more big ships", you need to soberly assess the possibilities and build a strategy from this, and you weren't enough for "let the aligarchs pay, yyyy"

[3danimal]

went sophistry about "let the aligarchs finance

Rather humor
More realistic - just budget for the development of shipyards.
As far as I know, the helicopter radically increases the anti-submarine capabilities of the ship. After all, it has its own lowered GAS, it can drop hydroacoustic buoys (not to mention torpedoes) ..
But - a certain minimum of resistance to rough seas is required.
Regarding the latter: this indicator is for 1000t RTOs substantially yields to 2000t corvette. Including, imposing restrictions on the use weapons.
It is necessary to complete the task, you have 3 "22800 + size" instead of one corvette, but the sea is rough (5 points). And what to do? Order an anti-storm prayer service?

more big ships

There is a certain reasonable minimum, 20380 (it is he, without UKSK) fits perfectly into it. Make it the backbone of the fleet.
There will be fewer "big brothers" 20385, frigates 22350 - even fewer.
Interestingly, the Chinese only have airborne forces on destroyers.

The option that you propose is a kind of analogue of the Chinese light corvette Type 056, right?

[Barberry25]

1) excitement of 5 points is not the most frequent occurrence, and as I already wrote, I am not against the construction of corvettes and frigates, I am against the construction of MRK 2 projects and patrolmen and I propose instead to start laying a budget version of a light corvette / patrol to ensure the current the needs of the fleet in the protection of BMZ ... damn ... that's the question ... I have repeatedly written what exactly the corvette. did you really decide to read it?)

[3danimal]

excitement of 5 points is not the most common occurrence

Now I looked at wind waves in the Black Sea. Shades of green - 4 points, yellow-orange - 5 points.

It is obvious that the destiny of RTOs is to huddle close to the shore, remaining in the "blue" zone.
Whereas the 2000t corvette will be able to operate in any area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe sea.

I am against the construction of MRK 2 projects and patrolmen and I propose to start laying a budget version of a light corvette / patrol instead of them

Anything that can reduce the diversity of ships - okay, I agree

[Barberry25]

1) the problem of the ship is 2 tons, we need other gearboxes, well, and another moment, our patrolmen have a displacement of 000 tons, i.e. it is quite realistic to make watchdogs of a similar displacement, which will allow you to survive 1 points

[3danimal]

our patrolmen have a displacement of 1 tons, i.e. it is quite realistic to make watchdogs of a similar displacement, which will allow you to survive 500 points

Patrolmen 22160 with a total displacement of 1800 tons are a completely different matter.
For them, the ability to use weapons in seas up to 5 points is just declared.
Interestingly, they are modular in design.
There is also a helicopter hangar.
Put the Shell, Packet-NK, a helicopter with OGAS and it will be quite normal
UKKS 1x8 is better to leave the option to set optionally, IMHO.

[Barberry25]

something else is important here - the power plant, i.e. this power plant allows you to make a very real watchdog, in principle, I’m not against a helicopter if it fits in .. About options .. it’s better to install with our MO, for a guarantee

[3danimal]

Found on VO a number of articles on the forum, make you doubt about 22160
https://topwar.ru/151455-chemodany-bez-ruchek-vmf-pokupaet-seriju-absoljutno-bespoleznyh-korablej.html

https://topwar.ru/184451-afera-perezapuskaetsja-pokazan-novyj-variant-patrulnogo-korablja-22160.html

https://topwar.ru/186909-innovacionnyj-marazm-patrulnyh-korablej-proekta-22160.html

[Barberry25]

it’s not about the ship itself, but about the fact that its power is quite normal for ships with a displacement of 1 tons, there the main claim is in modularity and in the shape of the hull, which does not allow for high speed - the ship burrows

[businessv]

Quote: Bad_gr

thanks to equipping with strike weapons, it became a frigate - a universal ship that is capable of fighting not only underwater, but also against surface and ground targets.

The funniest thing is that the article says exactly that, but your comment is the first one that reminded our members of the forum about it! Before that, I have read so many things! With the coming of all, all the best, it is good to spend, worthy to meet!

[bk0010]

Together with this, the BOD was made a twin strike - the destroyer 956 of the project. So it was considered the equivalent of a destroyer.

[Alexander Samoilov]

The BOD is an anti-submarine destroyer. The class was invented under Khrushchev, who did not perceive any weapons, except for ICBMs and RPK SN, as their carriers. Therefore, in the navy, everything that was not a strategic missile carrier, or a means of dealing with it, did not get the go-ahead.

[Petio]

The strike weapons are very good and varied, but the air defense is not very good. Such a large kirable needs something more powerful than Pantsir-M, although the latter is also good

[Flooding]

The upgraded frigate will receive a 3C-14 universal shipborne firing system with cells for various types of missiles. Thanks to this, the ship will be able to use cruise missiles "Caliber" for various purposes, as well as anti-ship products "Onyx" and "Zircon". The total ammunition load of such UKSK will be 16 missiles.

16 - this is on "Shaposhnikov"
32 are expected at "Chabanenko" as well as at "Vinogradov".

[Andy]

you yourself posted the picture below. which 32 if it says 2 * 8? just added uraniums, but about Calm - silence. does not fit?

[Flooding]

Quote: Andy

you yourself posted the picture below. which 32 if it says 2 * 8?

it says about additional options for the modernization tested on the "Shaposhnikov"
put 2x8 there
added 2x8 more
only 32 PU "Caliber"

[Andy]

The total ammunition load of such UKSK will be 16 missiles.
--
what is not clear here? general means everything, not extra. 32 rockets are calibers and uraniums together.

[Flooding]

Quote: Andy

what is not clear here? general means everything, not extra. 32 rockets are calibers and uraniums together.

rare stubborn
have you tried to read?
see my message below, supplemented with photos

[3danimal]

put 2x8 there
added 2x8 more
only 32 PU "Caliber"

The question is where to put them? An elevation had to be made under 2x8 (the ship was not designed for the installation of very long UKSK cells). Nearby will fit on the strength of another 1x8.

[huntsman650]

They plan to restore the daggers at the expense of the kuzi. The gun mount was lost in the art plant, which went bankrupt and fell apart. They wanted to change it, then they decided to capitalize, now it is gone.

[alexmach]

but about Calm - silence. does not fit?

And it’s not entirely clear where he will fit on the “Vinogradov”. In addition, in addition to the "Dagger", "Calm" looks so-and-so not bad, but as a replacement it is somehow rather weak.

[faiver]

dagger for calm-1 is rather weak? you have not beguiled anything?

[3danimal]

dagger for calm-1 is rather weak? you have not beguiled anything?

I met information that "Calm-1" (that is, the modernized "Hurricane") is rather weak in the near zone. "Dagger" is just good in it (this is a chilled "Thor").

[tralflot1832]

Maybe someone served on this ship, otherwise I was just passing by, this is a worthy option for modernization? In the 90s until 2007, it seems that the entire Northern Fleet stood in sludge. Kuznetsov in the roadstead of Peter the Great at the pier, and a couple of BODs under steam.

[paul3390]

In general - 8 years to modernize a steamer 30 years ago? Does this make sense? IMHO - it would be easier in the place it occupies and for that kind of money to build a new one, no? Or do we have absolutely sadness with this now? Since we are trying to revive the legacy of the sworn Bolsheviks to this day?

[Non-fighter]

8 years thinking what to do with him

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Not the fighter

8 years thinking what to do with him

there was just no money, Kuzya ate everything

[Kaufman]

I do not believe that there was no money. We have a lot of money, for sure, the defense industry does not digest everything - it masters it .. Interestingly, the top managers in the Moscow region also have a KPI for the development of funds ... Surely. There is nothing to repair, no factories, no machine tools, no electronics ... There are problems with metal alloys. We extract microcircuits through 3-4 channels through all sorts of Singapore .. Everything is sad.
But we have to work! Move forward.
Must

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: kaufman

there was no money

Well, think about it! half of the income we give to the IMF as a slavish colonial tribute to the owner according to the budgetary rule (after all, the Americans need new ships and missiles), another quarter are withdrawn to the United States through offshores at the request of the IMF WTO, so "there is no money, but you hold on."

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: paul3390

Does this make sense? IMHO - it would be easier in the place it occupies and for that kind of money to build a new one, no?

not simpler, the hull and engines and some other equipment have survived

[paul3390]

Frame? In 30 years? And the machines are not produced by the Ukrainian SSR for an hour? With all the consequences for spare parts?

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: paul3390

Frame? In 30 years?

with proper care, the case will confidently serve for 50 years

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: paul3390

And the cars are not produced by the Ukrainian SSR for an hour?

in general, this is not a diesel engine, but a turbine, the concept of spare parts is conditional there are no rings there is no crankshaft, turbine blades serve the entire period (and it is not a problem to make them at the turbine blade plant in St. speaking in the turbine there are only two spare parts rotor and stator, it is more likely to talk about replacing the entire unit, or replacing additional equipment of the installation, they (turbines and additional equipment) are made in Rybinsk

[paul3390]

Something does not seem to me at all that making spare parts for an engine, which they themselves have never produced, is as simple as that .. It would be so - there would be no problems with replacing Ukrainian engines ..

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: paul3390

Something does not seem to me at all that making spare parts for an engine that they themselves have never produced,

firstly they produced ... these are Soviet engines and were never Ukrainian, there are drawings, there are technologies, in general the USSR and the Russian Federation have leading positions in turbine construction, there are several factories, there are technologies, setting up production in Rybinsk was a technical issue, because in St. Petersburg they traditionally make very large turbines, and I had to fix everything in Rybinsk

[paul3390]

these are Soviet engines and have never been Ukrainian, there are drawings, there are technologies

No matter what it was - production, together with working drawings for each modification, tooling, technologists, workers, etc., etc. - alas, not in Ukraine ..

Once again, very often at a particular plant it is much easier to put into production your own model, sharpened for the existing technologies and machine tool park, than to repeat someone else's.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: paul3390

very often at a particular plant it is much easier to put into production your own model, sharpened for the existing technologies and machine tool park, than to repeat someone else's

production launched and operating in Rybinsk

[alexmach]

Therefore, probably 8 years and thought what to do.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: alexmach

Therefore, probably 8 years and thought what to do.

Probably they were waiting for the next astrologer, who will tell you.
There are probably no engineers left, so

[Paldiski]

One more question arises: "Isn't it a shame to bother him for 8 years?"

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: paul3390

it would be easier to build a new one in the place it occupies and for that kind of money, no? Or do we have absolutely sadness with this now? Since we are trying to revive the legacy of the sworn Bolsheviks to this day?

Bolsheviks, modernized and revived the legacy of "sworn tsarist Russia"! Yes or no ? Then why are we squealing?

"Sevastopol" (in 1921-1943 - "Paris Commune") - the battleship of the Russian imperial and Soviet navies. The lead ship of the same type.
On July 8, 1945 he was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. In 1930-1938 he underwent major repairs and modernization ... Continuity ... however ...

[donavi49]

Overhaul and modernization took place in 1930-1938.

And again after the war. Well, here the comparison is still incorrect. Then they held onto the corps, especially those who were poorer. There the Italians from PMV dreadnoughts actually made a new type with a different architecture, different artillery, replacement of the machine, and this was fully justified. Now, if that is one ship, which later became Novorossiysk.

Now the case costs relatively little, and the main cost is not even the mechanisms (that is, the power plant, etc.), but electronics, combat systems and weapons.

[paul3390]

Squealing and screaming is your prerogative, most venerable. The Bolsheviks kept the tsarist trash exclusively out of poverty, because until the 30s they could not build anything serious for many reasons. In particular - the complete collapse of the industry and the fundamental absence of some key industries in the Republic of Ingushetia. And then - it was a pity to quit before the expected construction of the "Soviet Union". The Russian Federation, on the other hand, inherited a powerful industry from the killed USSR in almost all areas, and bins burst from the dough. Not to mention the pockets of the bourgeoisie. So what's the problem with building something new? Why are we clinging to the Bolshevik "galoshes"? Only which, as you know, the Union produced?

[alexmach]

The Bolsheviks - kept the tsarist trash exclusively out of poverty, because until the 30s they could not build anything serious for many reasons

Unfortunately, the situation seems to be about the same now.

[Stepan S]

RF, on the other hand, from the killed USSR got the most powerful industry in almost all areas,

As if you did not live at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union, write this. Part of the industry was ruined, and part left along with the republics, the same Ukraine.

[paul3390]

Yes. But the Bolsheviks did not even have the production of banal ball bearings after the Republic of Ingushetia !! What kind of new ships are there. We just got orders of magnitude more from the deceased USSR ..

[3danimal]

a steamer 30 years ago?

U 1155 has a gas turbine power plant. The best of the ships that have survived from the USSR.

[ermak124.0]

Only, for God's sake, do not burn the ship !!!!

[Paranoid50]

Quote: ermak124.0

do not burn the ship !!!!

Duc, if a dolboy is not found, that instead of fulfilling his duties, he will skerry in the corners with the phone, clicking into the chat of a thread of the next VO, then there will be no problems.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: ermak124.0

Only, for God's sake, do not burn the ship !!!!

it's still early, don't worry ... closer to the end of the work, before being handed over to the fleet, they will burn ...

[Saxahorse]

Beautiful project! It's a pity only one ship was built on it. It would be foolish to give up a pretty good ship, one of the few ocean-going class.

[Amateur]

In this regard, the ship will be reclassified from BOD to frigates. In this case, the ship will retain 1 rank

Kind of like from police to police?
Is import substitution the other way around?

[Lair]

It's hard to believe in terms of modernization from the word at all. Unfortunately, the main drawback of this ship will not be eliminated - weak air defense, one Shell on such a ship will look rather ridiculous. Will Package-NK be installed? If not, it's very bad.

[Tiksi-3]

and calm m or redoubt will not put ??? then he is completely without air defense, the shell is air defense - the last chance

[Flooding]

Quote: Tiksi-3

and calm m or redoubt will not put ??? then he is completely without air defense, the shell is air defense - the last chance

most likely will be like on "Vinogradov"

in addition to the Shaposhnikov modernization package

[DrRey]

The article talks about 16 pu 3m14 and 4x4 pu Uranus - there will be more than on Vinogradov

[Flooding]

Quote: DrRey

The article talks about 16 pu 3m14 and 4x4 pu Uranus - there will be more than on Vinogradov

at "Shaposhnikov" 16 + 2х4
in addition to them on "Vinogradov" and "Chabanenko" another 16 + 2x4

total 32 UVPU "Caliber" + 4х4 PU "Uranus"
+ Calm
+ Package

[Andy]

re-read, 16 calibers. in your picture. uraniums are separate. other launchers you know. total of 16 calibers +16 uranium

[Flooding]

Quote: Andy

re-read, 16 calibers. in your picture. uraniums are separate. other launchers you know. total of 16 calibers +16 uranium

maybe so you will finally understand

"understand"?

[Alex777]

Quote: Flood

maybe so you will finally understand

You shouldn't be getting excited, colleague. Pictures are wrong.
I posted them here before you. Then I figured it out.

[Flooding]

Quote: Alex777

You are in vain

didn't even think

Quote: Alex777

I posted them here before you

we can bet who used to

Quote: Alex777

Pictures are wrong.

how is this known?

[Alex777]

Quote: Flood

how is this known?

There is a lot of actual confusion there.
See what will be real. Soon.

[AAK]

A colleague, was also at a loss, climbed into the turn, there are a lot of pictures with possible options for modernization schemes. It turns out the following:
- bow - 2x4 launchers of the Uranium anti-ship missile system (in place of the Mosquito launchers), then 2x8 UKSK 3S14, then a 1-barreled gun and 2x12 launchers for the Shtil in the place of the bow group "Daggers"
- aft group (between the aft pair of gas exhaust devices and helicopter hangars) 2x4 3S14, 2x12 PU SAM "Shtil" - in place of the aft section "Daggers" and PU RBU. On the main deck side by side - 2x4 "Uran", 2x4 "Packet-NK" on the upper deck at the stern of the group of gas exhaust devices side by side - 2 "Pantsir-M".
It turns out 32 + 48 vertical launchers, + 2x12 launchers for Pantsyr missiles.
It is not clear only which of the modifications of the Shtil missiles will be installed? If the usual, with a semi-active seeker - then somewhere up to 50 km in range and 15-17 in height, if new, with ARGSN - then it is about 70 km in range and up to 30-35 in height.
It is a pity that no serious modification of radars of all types is provided, there are not enough firing channels for the main air defense system.

[Flooding]

Quote: AAK

aft group (between the aft pair of gas exhaust devices and helicopter hangars) 2x4 3S14

2x8 as in the bow

[AAK]

indeed, a technical mistake, the head thinks about one thing, and the hands write another ... Thank you, colleague, for correcting

[Alex777]

Quote: Flood

Quote: AAK

aft group (between the aft pair of gas exhaust devices and helicopter hangars) 2x4 3S14

2x8 as in the bow

UKSK will not be there. Will make the stern heavier.
And so the project 1155 at full speed feed
goes under the water - a design error.

[Flooding]

Quote: Alex777

UKSK will not be there

we'll find out when the official information appears.

[Alex777]

Quote: Flood

Quote: Alex777

UKSK will not be there

we'll find out when the official information appears.

[Usher]

Is "Calm" really produced? It is outdated for a long time. "Polyment-Redut" is better.

[Cympak]

If you look at the additional options for modernizing the Vinogradov BOD in terms of the air defense system, you can see an obvious contradiction:

4x12 PU "Shtil-1" 3K-96

Complex 3K96 is the "Redut" air defense missile system
The problem with "Calm" is that it is necessary to place target illumination stations somewhere else, the so-called "Nuts".

[FoBoss_V]

There on the poster there will be inaccuracies according to Vinogradov 3 × 6 uvpu in calibers. And the LMS instead of the cougar will be Bagheera

[huntsman650]

They plan to restore the daggers.

[75 Sergey]

Everything will be beautiful and cool ... if it does not burn out.

[smaug78]

it is clear that no later than the end of 2023, the updated frigate will return to the fleet.

it is clear what will be, unfortunately, as always. Namely, the transfer of dates to the right with an increase in the budget for modernization.

[Escobar]

Did you leave the old torpedo tubes?

[Soldatov V.]

In connection with the loss of the "Agile" fighter, so necessary for the Pacific Fleet, an emergency program must be announced
modernization of "Admiral Vinogradov". The deadline is summer 2023. This is a three to four shift job. It is possible to organize a marine construction battalion for this, with the involvement of ship repair specialists from the sea and river fleets, as it was in Soviet times, with a good monetary allowance.
Not to arrange a Marlezon ballet at the naval parade in St. Petersburg, but to use these billions to modernize ships.

[faiver]

an emergency program needs to be announced

- they can declare anything to you and us, but they can do it ....

[Soldatov V.]

As N.S. Khrushchev said, we have a plan, and this is 50% of the work done.

[faiver]

here we have the country's leadership in Khrushchev's style and is working ...

[Crabong]

As a result of the modernization, it will receive 16 Kh-35 missiles, and will also be able to carry the required number of Onyxes and Zircons. In addition, it will be possible to attack coastal targets using Caliber missiles. According to the latest news, the former BOD will be able to use the latest anti-submarine missiles "Answer".

5 types of rocket weapons? + shell missiles?

[Vladimir1155]

great article! great news ! Here is an example when a ship of normal displacement is simple to repair and the series is decent, there is nothing about the bulky aircraft carrier without tasks and meaning, without a dock and a berth, without security guards and money ... and 1155 can be repaired and upgraded at various factories and oceans according to a single project

[Lair]

Quote: vladimir1155

great article! great news ! Here is an example when a ship of normal displacement is simple to repair and the series is decent, there is nothing about the bulky aircraft carrier without tasks and meaning, without a dock and a berth, without security guards and money ... and 1155 can be repaired and upgraded at various factories and oceans according to a single project

Pay attention, the project is new, not the one according to which Shaposhnikov was modernized, since the first pancake came out lumpy. And it is clear that the modernization will be delayed and not easy.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Lair

not the one according to which Shaposhnikov was modernized,

slightly modified, the overall concept has paid off

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The meaning of any aircraft carrier is that it can lift dozens of aircraft into the air, which can hit dozens of missiles on any ship or objects on land 1000 km away !!!

And Chabanenko can fire 16 Calibers, and against a sea target of 450 km in total, Uranus anti-ship missiles have an even shorter range, that is, the enemy's AUG will be able to attack the Chabanenko frigate from a range at which he cannot respond, even if he somehow gets data about the enemy.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

it can lift dozens of aircraft into the air, which can hit dozens of missiles on any ship or objects on land 1000 km away !!!

you are confusing it with a ground airbase, take into account less than a dozen aircraft, well, amers have two dozen, the rest in reserve will not fit on the deck, about 1000 km of lies, there is not enough fuel to take off with an incomplete load, and also rockets, and especially amused about "any object" .. not any, but rather none, because your aircraft carrier will be sunk before the planes take off, ours has no cover at all, and the Americans will not dare to use them against the Russian Federation of the PRC, we have too many systems to defeat this bandura, aircraft carriers are against defenseless women and children in Yugoslavia Libya Iraq and other American colonies

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

About 1000 km or more is not a lie, but a fact. This is the strike range (combat radius of the aircraft + the range of the used missile).

The aircraft carrier can be moved to any point in the world's oceans, and the one who will hit first will do it unexpectedly, you will not do that with a ground airfield.

How many aircraft carriers have the United States sunk in the last 60-70 years? No one.

They will take a risk to discuss military topics - they will not risk it at all stupid, you need to think about what to do when this happens ?!

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

The aircraft carrier can be moved to any point in the world ocean, and the one who will hit first will do it unexpectedly

you have views on the level of "the times of Ochakov and the conquest of the Crimea", or the battle of Tsushima, 1 you cannot move the aircraft carrier wherever you like, this serious operation requires large forces and funds for this operation there is not even the necessary number of ships in the Russian Federation 2 about the invisibility of the aircraft carrier do not make my slippers laugh , now even a passenger car and a cyclist are easily tracked from satellites

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

And Chabanenko can fire 16 Gauges, and on a sea target 450 km in total

the purpose of ASW frigates, this is ASW around nuclear submarine bases, the Barents Sea or Kamchatka, there is our coastal cover, and the frigate's missiles are modest self-defense and only

[Usher]

Compared too. It's like comparing a wagon and a gazelle. Where are you going to keep the aircraft carrier? Where to dock and repair? The ocean is not so critical for the Russian Federation. You need a minimum. Instead of building armada, what is the point of Avik in a defensive doctrine?

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Usher

It's like comparing a wagon and a gazelle.

rather a broken, outdated armored train with a modern tank

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

what is the point of avik in defensive doctrine?

Defense doctrine does not mean that we refuse to retaliate.

The idea of ​​an aircraft carrier is that it is an airfield with 40 or more aircraft that can be moved to any point in the world ocean and attack targets at a distance of more than 1000 km.

You can, for example, hit Norway, Britain or another NATO country with Calibers, or you can adjust the aircraft carrier with other ships and work out targets with more economical means from the sea side, or attack targets that Caliber cannot reach.

At the same time, other ships and nuclear submarines will cover the aircraft carrier from enemy attacks with both torpedoes and missiles.

The possession of anti-aircraft missiles does not at all guarantee that enemy ships will be sunk. They can be shot down, go off on false targets.

The aircraft carrier is the most formidable and most powerful ship in the fleet.

In addition, it is convenient to use it as a headquarters and a hospital.

An aircraft carrier is a completely different level of naval capabilities.

And Russia also needs aircraft carriers.

That is the point.

[Usher]

Why should we be anywhere in the ocean? For me, a waste of money. At this stage, Avik is like the fifth wheel, only gets in the way. Better to bring to mind the required number of ships in the near sea zone. It's like you have not yet learned how to fight with heavyweights right away.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Why should we be anywhere in the ocean? 

So that our trading partners, such as Venezuela, Argentina or Iran, are sure that if anything, we will not leave them alone with the "champions of democracy" and will be able to cover up not only in the political arena, but also in the event of an exacerbation of a military conflict.

Otherwise, the United States and Western countries will extradite us from the markets for our goods, both in the military-industrial complex and in the civilian direction, which will lead to a reduction in production in our country and stagnation of the economy.

After that, the question of the destruction of Russia as a state will become only a matter of time.

[Usher]

trade with these countries will not pay for AUG. Will you fight for a "trading partner", fight for bananas, peaches?

[Rostislav Prokopenko]

The most powerful and formidable are the Eagles. Here they need to be repaired and reconstructed, and then five to seven new ones should be built.

[Pavel57]

So far, all modified ships differ in the number of missiles. How much did it make sense to change the Dirk to the Shell?

[ja-ja-vw]

There are so many beeches, although there is information for 1 paragraph

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: ja-ja-vw

There are so many beeches, although there is information for 1 paragraph

this -
unique Ryabovsky style...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

requirements for frigates and will actually become a "mini-cruiser".

Maybe a little more modest? For example, a destroyer.

But judging by the number of cells for the CR Caliber, this is 1/2 of the frigate.

On NATO frigates, for example of the Saxony type, 32 cells Mk.41. And this PU can not only launch anti-aircraft Standards, but also Tomahawks.

US destroyers carry under 90 missiles, Cruisers under 120.

So, our Chabanenko does not pull on a mini-cruiser.

[Usher]

I will express my "couch" opinion. Air defense and anti-aircraft defense is rather weak. Just "Shell", "Polyment" is needed. What about torpedoes? You need at least 8 pipes per board. Why install the Uranium anti-ship missile system?

The launchers of the P-270 Mosquito anti-ship missiles will be removed. The vacated areas will host four installations of the Uranus complex for 16 missiles. Thus, the total ammunition load of the strike missile armament will reach 32 units.

What's the use of the subsonic Uranus? It would be better if the Onyxes were installed, they also have inclined launchers, the Indians use https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Rajput_(D51)

[SovAr238A]

I'll just leave it here.
text from news from 2017 on the same site.
BOD "Admiral Chabanenko" - the only representative of the ships of the 1155.1 project in the Russian Navy - got up for repair and modernization at the 35 ship repair plant - a branch of the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation) in 2014. At first it was assumed that he would restore technical readiness in the 2016 year, then in the 2017 year.

[shoroh]

Nice upgrade. It would be quicker to upgrade all the ships. Otherwise, the situation is like this, we are issuing ultimatums to NATO.

[Yuri V.A]

And what, it’s not bad if the Russian fleet will receive updated only cruisers - the minicruiser Chabanenko and the hypercruiser Nakhimov.

[storm]

In this regard, the ship will be reclassified from BOD to frigates. In this case, the ship will retain 1 rank.

Why a frigate and not a destroyer?
And in terms of displacement and composition of weapons, this is a 100% destroyer or "mini cruiser" as written in the article ...

[audigamma]

The main thing is not to burn

[huntsman650]

A recent photo from last year. Not a single ship has come out of the 35th shipyard, which has been there for repairs.

[storm]

Lost place ..

[demiurg]

Instead of daggers, it would be possible to put a redoubt.

[kig]

a frigate with a displacement of 8000 tons ... why not a corvette?

[Protos]

Quote: paul3390

Frame? In 30 years? And the machines are not produced by the Ukrainian SSR for an hour? With all the consequences for spare parts?

Assembly machines of the Ukrainian SSR, and the production of the USSR.
There, many units were produced by subcontractors from other republics.

[Protos]

Quote: audigamma

The main thing is not to burn

Tell this LHD-6 Bonhomme Richard from United States Navy, which burned 60% in 2020 and was decommissioned in 2021
Moreover, it burned at maintenance with a crew of 160 people.

[Skipper]

Quote: Petio

The strike weapons are very good and varied, but the air defense is not very good. Such a large kirable needs something more powerful than Pantsir-M, although the latter is also good

The author simply kept silent that instead of the Kortik air defense system (in front of the gun mount) there will be a Calm or Redoubt air defense system like Gorshkov's for 32 cells.

[huntsman650]

Dreamer, nothing like that will happen there! Everything old is restored

[Skipper]

Quote: Barberry25

the main thing is to let the fog go .. we and corvettes are not corvettes, but light frigates according to the Europeans, And the mrk just fall under the corvettes, and the SuperGots are already being pulled into the section of destroyers, I would not be surprised if it turns out that our destroyers will be equal to the Cruisers

Our Superpots (Project 22350M) will be more powerful than the destroyers Arlie Beckr. The Berks have 96 cells and the superpots will have 48 shock + 64 AA defenses for a total of 112 cells, this is almost an American Ticonderoga ... and this is a cruiser.

[Yuri V.A]

Ah, 64 air defense cells on SuperGorshkov under what size? If for a Redoubt, then this corresponds to 16 cells of Mk41, i.e. just a little more than half of Burke, is not suitable for a cruiser.

[3danimal]

Our superpots (project 22350M) will be more powerful than the destroyers Arlie Beckr

But one must understand that in numbers they will never even catch up with the Ticonderogi.
And how many years will it take to build each?

[Diverter]

And put a sailor with a fire extinguisher near each worker. So that at first the sailor could quickly put out the fire, and then with an empty fire extinguisher on the head of the worker who organized the fire.
A couple of fire trucks are on duty at the pier.

[Lonely loner]

Kharlamov next?

[musorg]

This will be done for 5 years, and "Kharlamov" the same and that 10 years until they receive it.

[Glagol1]

The author, perhaps, will transfer the Ukrainian armored boats to corvettes soon. Least. Or he simply harbored a grudge against Admiral Chabanenko, and therefore demoted him to a frigate. Here on VO, of course, the only ones are published ...

[KrolikZanuda]

Factor of. Isn't it funny? And yes, 32 PUs are not funny either.

[Skipper]

Quote: Yuri V.A.

Ah, 64 air defense cells on SuperGorshkov under what size? If for a Redoubt, then this corresponds to 16 cells of Mk41, i.e. just a little more than half of Burke, is not suitable for a cruiser.

You're wrong. On the contrary, American cells are smaller than Russian ones both in diameter and, most importantly, in depth / length. So everything is in favor of the Russians.

[musorg]

It takes so many years to wait for repairs? It's like diesel-electric submarines "Alrosa" are transferred every year and even if only henna. Is there no controllability there?

[Alexander Samoilov]

Nerfing the main anti-ship weapon in favor of the versatile but subsonic "Calibers" is not a good idea.

[1Alexey]

BODs in the USSR belonged to the class of destroyers, and therefore belonged to ships of the 1st rank.
Frigates are rank 2 ships.

Write the same:

the ship will be reclassified from BOD to frigates. In this case, the ship will retain 1 rank.

It's like writing that the major has been demoted to the rank of captain and at the same time he will continue to belong to the senior officer corps.

[3danimal]

The author, in the photo there are only 8 Uranium anti-ship missiles.

[3danimal]

If they are going to change the electronic equipment, it makes sense to replace the air defense system. There is enough room for it on the nose (where the Dagger is now).

[tone]

It is absolutely clear that Chabonenko will never go into operation, they will spend a lot of money on simple and pseudo repairs like with Burny, for example, then also on needles ...