The command of the Ground Forces did not refuse to adopt the Pantsir-C1 anti-aircraft missile system.

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation commented on an article in the Izvestia newspaper about the alleged refusal of the Ground Forces Command to adopt the Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile system (ZRPK).

The Pantsir-S anti-aircraft missile-gun complex (ZRPK) has been adopted and is already being supplied to the Aerospace Defense Forces.

In September-October of this year, the second installment of the Pantsir-S ZRPK party is expected. The main task of this unit will be to cover the Triumph C-400 anti-aircraft missile systems in combat positions from enemy air attack weapons.

A modification of the Shell-S complex is also being developed for the Ground Forces and the Naval Fleet.

Work is currently underway to adapt the Pantsir-С1 air defense system to the requirements for air defense weapons of general purpose. Upon their completion, a prototype of the complex will be submitted for military trials.

Troop tests of the complex have not yet been conducted. Only after their completion will it be possible to talk about when this complex will begin to enter into service with the Ground Forces.

The existing modification of the Pantsir-S ZRPK fully complies with the requirements for weapons and military equipment of the anti-aircraft missile units of the Air Force and the Aerospace Defense Forces.

Comments

[with]

In Yoshkin cat, whom to believe, one thing, then another !?
By God, like little children, everything seems to be at the same time, but in the briefcase "druzhbanu" is a holy cause!)))

[PLO]

In Yoshkin cat, whom to believe, one thing, then another !?

do not believe Izvestia, this newspaper is not the first time to come across such false articles in pursuit of a fleeting rating and at the same time it loses its reputation as a once good newspaper

and Khramchikhin whose expert opinion was used in that article, the same expert

[kush62]

Izvestia was in my bookmarks, I read and deleted it a couple of times. Echo and only.

[Kaa]

Quote: kush62

Echo and only.

Echo from the State Department corridors. They fucked up a decent newspaper in the past ... By the way, the day before on the site how many copies people broke around this news, for and against. but, it turns out, the usual disinformation. Here is an example of the wars of the 6th generation. Does anyone still doubt their reality and routine?

[Kurdalagon]

There is no news in Pravda, and there is no truth in Izvestia. An old Soviet joke.

[lelikas]

Favorite game of our MO - Chamomile continues.
What other type of equipment did not participate in it?
S, S, - Military trials of the complex have not yet been carried out. - How can this even be if they have been producing it for several years?

[PLO]

shell-s1 is purchased by the air defense forces, and in the ground forces it still did not seem to pass the test

[Rockets]

Quote: lelikas

S, S, - Military trials of the complex have not yet been carried out. - How can this even be if they have been producing it for several years?

It is very simple. For the Ground Forces, we need not wheeled, but tracked chassis
And such a chassis is now being developed. Heavy platform "Armata". Average "Krganets 25" As soon as, so immediately .. And by that time, the complex itself will be brought to mind.

[PLO]

It's very simple. For the Ground Forces, not wheeled, but tracked chassis are needed, and such chassis is currently being developed. Heavy platform "Armata". Average "Krganets 25" As soon as, so immediately .. And by that time, the complex itself will be brought to mind.

do not confuse, Kuraghinets-25 and armata is a chassis for other purposes

and Shell-s1 on the tracked chassis has been around for a long time, it seems to be delivered for Algeria

chassis Belarusian GM-352
but according to some information, the MO considers this chassis too expensive, although Tor-m2U is installed on this chassis and it is planned to put Buk-M3 on it

[Civil]

and what a good chassis! even more

[Uruska]

Very similar to reinforced Tunguska.

[Rockets]

Quote: olp

do not confuse, Kuraghinets-25 and armata is a chassis for other purposes

Where such confidence? The phrase single platform tells you something?
And what was produced for Algeria, Iran, the Emirates, Oman, Morocco, Syria is not quite the same as for the RF Armed Forces
Moscow Region believes that massively, foreign equipment (even from Belarusians) WILL NOT be purchased! This creates unified platforms for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation
GM platform 24 tons (maximum) "Kurganets" 25 tons

[PLO]

Where such confidence? The phrase single platform tells you something?

theoretically, you can probably put if you want

however, as far as I know, among the published materials on the topic Kurganets-25, it never slipped that air defense systems would be made on the Kurganets platform, there were bmp, various KShM and EW vehicles were

but in some interview about Tor-m2u I read that they are completely satisfied with the current Belarusian chassis (um-352) and the possibility of installing Buk-m3 on it is considered, so in this case it’s pointless to install shell-c1 on Kurganets and so already is on a normal tracked chassis.

[Rockets]

Quote: olp

on the topic Kurganets-25 did not slip anywhere that air defense systems would be made on the Kurganets platform,

Not "Kurganets" of course, but I hope the hint is clear?

[PSih2097]

ZPRK. "Tunguska-M (M1)"

[PLO]

if I’m not mistaken, then you have a photo of the Roman Zrk, one of the earliest prototypes of the Shell

Not "Kurganets" of course, but I hope the hint is clear?

your hint, this hint not to surpass

[Rockets]

Quote: olp

your hint, this hint not to surpass

This hint in the Russian army is not supplied as well as the T90SM. As well as the BMD 4
And much more. What is the fright? Upgrade the old T-72. BMD 1 is brought to the level of BMD 2, etc. Because they are waiting for the chassis
And for export the Shell even is delivered to MAN, and so what?
"Roman" is an option for the Airborne Forces. Yes, one of the first varieties of Carapace.
Since a new BMD is also planned on the basis of "Kurganets", this is where the new topic "Roman" surfaced

[PLO]

This hint in the Russian army is not supplied as well as the T90SM. As well as the BMD 4
"Roman" is an option for the Airborne Forces. Yes, one of the first varieties of Carapace.
Since a new BMD is also planned on the basis of "Kurganets", this is where the new topic "Roman" surfaced

and Shamanov says that Kurgan-25 will be too heavy for an airborne BMD, which is why he wants to buy a BMD-4M

And much more. What is the fright? Upgrade the old T-72. BMD 1 is brought to the level of BMD 2, etc. Because they are waiting for the chassis
And for export the Shell even is delivered to MAN, and so what?

but the army recently put Tor-M2U, which is made on the basis of GM-352,
taking into account the fact that both Tunguska and Tor were unified by chassis, then why would Shell-s1 be made on Kurganets?
at the same time, I am not saying that it is theoretically impossible or I personally am against such a chassis, but so far there is no reason to believe that there will be no shell and tor on the basis of Kurgan

[Rockets]

Quote: olp

and Shamanov says that Kurgan-25 will be too heavy for an airborne BMD, which is why he wants to buy a BMD-4M

And the designers say that 5-6 kotkovo "Kurgantsy" is never a question

Quote: olp

but the army recently put Tor-M2U, which is made on the basis of GM-352,

If you did not notice, then air defense is needed now, or rather, yesterday, and not later.
There is no longer fat
And GM under the Torah, Cuba, doing at the Mytishchi machine-building plant (Moscow region);)

[PLO]

And the designers say that 5-6 kotkovo "Kurgantsy" is never a question

I think soon in a year or two we will find out about this

If you did not notice, then air defense is needed now, or rather, yesterday, and not later.
There is no longer fat

oh how ?!
you didn’t seem to notice that it was you who proposed to wait with the purchase of the Torah and the Shell until the end of the development of Kurganets
I personally do not mind the Minsk chassis

And GM under the Torah, Cuba, doing at the Mytishchi machine-building plant (Moscow region);)

did .. in the Soviet Union
according to some information, Metrovagonmash (now) is busy with carriage orders and does not show any particular desire to make these chassis (GM-3975 their analogue)

[Rockets]

Quote: olp

you didn’t seem to notice that it was you who proposed to wait with the purchase of the Torah and the Shell until the end of the development of Kurganets

I do not propose Not in my competence! What to buy. when and how much. this is to mo
UVZ also produces cars, as it were ...

MMZ today
http://mmzavod.ru/

[PLO]

UVZ also produces cars, as it were ...

MMZ today
http://mmzavod.ru/

in annual reports is empty, if production remains, then of course it’s good

[PLO]

however judging by the news archive on the site, mmz still produces something

[vladimir64ss]

To put a "shadow on the fence" for our media is a nice thing.

[leon-iv]

O5 news throw poop))))))

[with]

Quote: leon-iv

About5

Too lazy to clave or to save space?)))

[nycsson]

Quote: met

Too lazy to clave or to save space?)))

Saves on any place !!!

[serezhasoldatow]

In this design, it is suitable for air defense troops, but for the land hunters something else is needed. What they wrote earlier is another duck related to a non-chamotic author. Difficulties were previously with the radar, while the KBP itself did what it needed. And the fact that it does not bring down maneuverable targets is a huge fat ... turkey!

[Alexey Prikazchikov]

Damn ... what the normal newspaper turned into a newsletter, and now it’s driving empty. This shit started with her.

[Yarbay]

Another news!
Who to believe ??? or as Muller said only to him !!)))

[with]

Quote: Yarbay

Who to believe ??? or as Muller said only to him !!)))

Alibek!
Müller said, "You can't trust anyone, I can!")))

[Yarbay]

Quote: met

Muller said, "You can't trust anyone, I can!"))

Dear Met!
Alas, I don’t see what you have lined up, the lock is there, but if my memory serves me right there is one caveat, you can’t trust anyone, sometimes even yourself, I can))))))))

[with]

Quote: Yarbay

Alas, I don’t see what you have lined up, the lock is there, but if my memory serves me right there is one caveat, you can’t trust anyone, sometimes even yourself, I can))))))))

How do you, famously and constantly, "omit" the word counterintelligence?
Why's that???)))

[Yarbay]

Quote: met

How do you, famously and constantly, "omit" the word counterintelligence?
Why's that???))

lowering?)))
I did not understand the values))))))))))))
I mean there was a word “counterintelligence” in the film ??
I swear not specifically))))))

[with]

Quote: Yarbay

I mean there was a word “counterintelligence” in the film ??

No, of course, the film is generally about pirates of the Caribbean, and Mueller just went for a walk!)))

[Yarbay]

Quote: met

No, of course, the film is generally about pirates of the Caribbean, and Mueller just went for a walk!)))

Tree sticks))))))
It’s a pity I did not serve urgent service with you))))) time would fly by faster and the service would seem like one big holiday))))

[mark021105]

And where and when did they serve, if not secret?

[Yarbay]

Quote: mark021105

And where and when did they serve, if not secret?

In the Homeland !!
From the 91st to the 2003rd!

[with]

Quote: Yarbay

In the Homeland !!

A capacious answer !!)))
And here is our Motherland ...



and we also serve or served there !!!

[Yarbay]

Quote: met

And here is our homeland.

This is a Great Motherland !! Alas, I have only reached the military age, he was gone, almost !!

[mark021105]

Well, yes ... By then, Perestroika and Glasnost had simply finished off the Power ...
In 1991, while in Sevastopol, he didn’t realize with his mind, but there was a strange feeling that something bad was about to happen ... Who could have imagined then that this would turn out like this ...

[with]

Quote: Yarbay

It's a pity I did not serve with you urgent service)))))

Quote: Yarbay

In the Homeland !!
С 91st to 2003 go!

Alibek, nevermind, you have an urgent service !!!)))

[spender]

Quote: met

Alibek, nevermind, you have an urgent service !!!)))

You took words a little out of context, I give the complete question and answer

Question:
Quote: mark021105
And where and when did they serve, if not secret?
Response
Yarbay
In the Homeland !!
From the 91st to the 2003rd!

About an urgent word ... They asked where he served, Alibek answered ... I'm sorry, Alibek did not authorize me to answer for him, but could not resist, I do not like inaccuracies ...

[with]

spender!
I haven’t seen you all day!

Quote: spender

I do not like inaccuracies.

And I specially let down posts !!!
Alibek understood me, believe me !!!))))

[spender]

Quote: met

I haven’t seen you all day!

Went away on business in Uglich ... Well, there was not up to the site

Quote: met

And I specially let down posts !!! Alibek understood me, believe me !!!)

Yes, I see you got an interesting tandem What is not a "pick" is a masterpiece

[with]

Quote: spender

Yes, I see you have an interesting tandem. What is not a "pick" is a masterpiece

Spender, you won’t say that for the day today, it’s not fishy, ​​praise and praise it all, it’s not good !!!)))
But seriously - THANKS !!!
I think Alibek will support my words of gratitude !!!

[spender]

Quote: met

, You will not say that for the day today, it’s not fishy, ​​praise and praise it all, it’s not good !!!)))

I like one saying: "If your boss starts to praise you, then one of you will soon be fired"
It really works, but if the forum users praise, then write sensible things, I can find no other explanation

[Yarbay]

Quote: met

I think Alibek will support my words of gratitude !!!

Of course !!))))
You and Alexei do not support in such a case -criminally !!))

[Yarbay]

Quote: met

And I specially let down posts !!!
Alibek understood me, believe me !!!

Well yes!!))
Still would!!))

[Yarbay]

Quote: spender

About an urgent word ... They asked where he served, Alibek answered ... I'm sorry, Alibek did not authorize me to answer for him, but could not resist, I do not like inaccuracies ...

In principle, you are right!
From the 95th he was already an officer !!

[Yarbay]

Quote: met

Alibek, nevermind, you have an urgent service !!!)))

In principle, an urgent served twice))))
first volunteer, then on appeal))))
It was believed that the volunteer did not serve))
Actually, our call until the 96th was not demobilized !!
But I had a slightly different situation !!))

[tekinoral]

Yarbay. For how many years have you been taken to the army and how many serve?

[Yarbay]

Quote: tekinoral

Yarbay. For how many years have you been taken to the army and how many serve?

c 18, now with a higher education a year, with an average one and a half, but during the war all who were called in 90-91 demobilized somewhere in 96 !!

[Apollo]

Quote: Yarbay

Tree sticks))))))
It’s a pity I did not serve urgent service with you))))) time would fly by faster and the service would seem like one big holiday))))

Met!
You are a nice man.

[with]

Quote: Apollon

Met!
You are a nice man.

Apollon, by God, do not drive me into the paint, like Carloson from 37 seconds.)))



Although a big THANKS for the rating !!!

[Yarbay]

Quote: Apollon

You are a nice man.

Mr. Apollon Your career is growing by leaps and bounds))))))
Congratulations on your new title !!!
Are you a staffer or a hero like me?))))))))

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Yarbay

Whom to believe

Alibek, I don’t believe our MO !!!

[gen.meleshkin]

I want to believe in the good.

[gregor6549]

You need to believe your mind (if any) and logic. Why should the SV abandon the Carapace if it surpasses the famous Tunguzsky in its performance characteristics, it can be supplied both on wheeled and tracked, and its use by several types of troops only increases the serial production of the Carapace, which means it facilitates the problem of supplying spare parts and subsequent modifications. And there is no alternative to it yet. Torah are not bad systems, but still their use is limited to air targets, and here is a missile cannon complex that can cover the columns of its troops not only from the air, but also from the ground enemy. The main thing is not to give him tasks such as conducting street battles, as they put them to the Tunguzians when troops were sent to Grozny in the 1st Chechen. And then they also gave the designers over the head for not justifying the "high trust" of strategists like Grachev

[Lieutenant colonel]

Well, to repel an attack by a ground enemy, is it more logical to use the BK of another weapon, probably? Have you considered the tasks of shell armor? Each fire defense system has its own tasks and differences in the capabilities of destruction in terms of angular parameters, range and height of destruction of targets.

[viruskvartirus]

Well, finally, they made a statement ... better late, otherwise this srach bothered, the car came out very good and, most importantly, it is developing and improving .... and regarding the military system, the task is not easy, in its current form "Pantsyr" needs a special chassis. ... and if you put it on a tracked one ... you need to cut down on the possibilities ... and it will be a completely different machine ... by the way, I dug up the most information on it on the airbase forum ...

[nycsson]

Well, thank God! Have thought it over!

[APASUS]

Where is the MO press center ??
Or just eat grandmothers? Let them speak out at the official level!

[SenyaYa]

Che tits then we think, weapons need to be bought but more !!!! My ass feels unliving to our children in the world !!!!

[Sasha 19871987]

yeah, once again I am convinced of the truth, do not trust anyone but yourself ....

[Arsen]

In general, news on the soap.

[sxn278619]

Someone explain this phrase
The main task of this unit will be to cover the S-400 Triumph anti-aircraft missile systems in combat positions from enemy air attack weapons.
That is, the S-400 can not cover itself?
The S-400 has a special retractable antenna that detects low-gliding targets at a distance of 40 km, while the Pantsir-S1 has nothing, it simply will not detect it.
It is incomprehensible to this.
Explain.

[PLO]

That is, the S-400 can not cover itself?

it can, but spending an expensive killer missile designed to destroy planes at great distances (from 135km with a 9m96M missile to 250km with a 48N6DM missile) is expensive, although it is quite possible it is much cheaper to use a short-range type of shell like Shell-C1, whose missile has a meager price compared to s-400 missiles.

The S-400 has a special retractable antenna that detects low-gliding targets at a distance of 40 km, while the Pantsir-S1 has nothing, it simply will not detect it.

why should a complex with a range of 20 km see targets near the earth at a distance of 40 km, besides now all such complexes are combined into a single system, which allows you to create a single information space for timely and effective solution of fire missions

[Rockets]

Quote: sxn278619

That is, the S-400 can not cover itself?

Are you aware that combat the effectiveness of modern air defense systems is approximately 30% +/-
The super duper fancy "Petriot" of the Israelis could not effectively resist the ancient Iraqi "Scudm". there the efficiency was about 10%
Their "dome" is sharpened for Kasam missiles (handicraft, which fly straightforwardly) have about 25-30% efficiency
So, it is necessary to cover the air defense system, from breaking through to the battery of the adversary. The shell is their last chance!

[Su24]

thirty%? Where does this statistic come from? Those. You want to say that the SAM does not intercept about 30% of the targets? How to count this? Those goals that he has on the radar, or with those that fly at low altitude and are hidden by the landscape?

[Rockets]

Quote: Su24

Where does this statistic come from?

From military use, in practice, in the conflicts of recent decades
It is believed, under ideal conditions, that 1 aircraft requires 2-3 missiles for 100% damage.
Therefore, a layered air defense system is being built

[PLO]

From military use, in practice, in the conflicts of recent decades
It is believed, under ideal conditions, that 1 aircraft requires 2-3 missiles for 100% damage.

As for the consumption of missiles, everything is true, while they usually hit the target from different directions (above and below)

You are aware that the combat effectiveness of modern air defense systems is approximately 30% +/-

but what about the probability is not quite
if you got this number by dividing the unit by the number of missiles, then this is not true, here it is necessary to recall the basics of probability theory

and so usually the probability of hitting a target of one zur, for example for 9M96M, is 0.7 (according to open data)

[Rockets]

Quote: olp

but what about the probability is not quite

In war, as in war, both the theory of public relations and the declared characteristics does not correspond to the practice of combat use. If you are interested in the matter, start with the Vietnam War and go through conflicts with the use of air defense systems to this day. Marvel

[PLO]

In war, as in war, both the theory of public relations and the declared characteristics does not correspond to the practice of combat use. If you are interested in the matter, start with the Vietnam War and go through conflicts with the use of air defense systems to this day. Marvel

I’m sure that the equipment as a rule corresponds to the declared characteristics, you just need to know what is behind the various numbers, and PR theory consists in telling the truth, but inspiring people with false conclusions

although there are probably examples of impudent deception

[suharev-52]

The car is necessary, and on our vast expanses, only a caterpillar. Sincerely.

[Lieutenant colonel]

You can have your own two kopeks - why are there tracks in the Air Force? They have everything on wheels - just for Kamaz (Urals). This system in NE is needed on tracks, for aerospace defense and air force on wheels. The main thing is that she is.

[sxn278619]

I do not envy the S-400. Tomahawk flies at him at an altitude of 50 m, and he hopes for the Pantsir-C1 guns. Well they are cheaper and will come with a 100% probability.

[Su24]

This is why? Just ZRPK and intercept on approach

[sxn278619]

All the unpleasant truth about the "Shell-C1",
quote.
At the same time, the radar target tracking system (single-channel) used in the Pantsir-С1 air defense system (single-channel), as shown by calculations and modeling (and even state tests, the results of which are “reliably hidden”), does not provide the required accuracy of missile targeting at the maximum range, even for targets with effective reflective surface 2 square. m and more. Under weather conditions of medium complexity, the optoelectronic channel provides reliable detection and tracking of targets at distances of no more than 12 – 15 km and is also single-channel. In addition, the radar and optoelectronic channels ZRPK "Pantsir-С1" are not parallel, but complementary to each other, does not increase the channel of the complex on the target. As for the cannon canal, due to its insufficient effectiveness of shooting at modern air targets, associated primarily with a low rate of fire, it can only be considered as an auxiliary means of self-defense and fighting mainly against the ground enemy.


Read more: http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2012-09-21/1_two_fronts.html