Military Review

Caftans on the regiments: the multicolored rifle army of pre-Petrine Russia

209

Archers of the late XVI - early XVII centuries: 1 - archer of the Lithuanian prince Radziwill, 1564; 2 - Moscow archer of the late 3th century; XNUMX - a city Cossack of the early XNUMXth century. Rice. Angus McBride


Senka saw the order of the archers by the colors of the caftans: the archers passed the meat-colored caftans - the heads of Aleksandrov; passed light green - the order of Artamon Matveyev, Andrey Verigin - crimson caftans, they seemed to cover the river with blood; they stopped, some fell from their horses, the wounded, throwing their horses, wandered back to the shore. From the prison, on someone's command, they desperately beat them with rifles, and with arrows they hit the advancing archers in the face.
"People walking", A.P. Chapygin

History uniforms. In general, a series of materials on the history of uniforms was published, and "requests from workers" immediately poured in - write, write ... "and when it will be ...", in a word, the fact that the topic will interest many, I was not mistaken. But among other wishes "out of time" one seemed worthy of attention. "Write about the archers", and - yes, indeed, about whom, about whom, and about them, the "hearts" should be written first of all. Because this "costume" army was among the first "uniform regiments" both in Russia itself and in Europe. Moreover, the rational nature of the rifle uniform is obvious. After all, both boots and an overcoat - all this came to us from there, from the era of archers!

Moreover, fortunately for the readers of VO, the “shooter theme” turned out to be not a passing one for me, but rather “long-playing”. It all started with the fact that in 1991 in the renewed Russia the first issue of the military history magazine "Zeikhhauz" was published, and it contained an article by Roberto Palacios-Fernandez "Moscow archers", for which he himself also drew excellent illustrations. Then I met him in absentia, and it turned out that he was a descendant of those Spaniards who ended up in the USSR in 1936-1939. At that time, I did not even dream of writing about something like that, only perhaps about tanks, which by that time had been engaged for 11 years, but then I thought that we also had archers in Penza, and why not write about them on the basis of documents, and use Roberto's drawings for ... redrawing. And with the appropriate changes Igor Zeynalov completed it, and this material went first to England in the magazine "Military Modeling", and then to the Netherlands in the magazine "La Figurin". It was told in these articles about the Penza fortress, and about its garrison, which consisted of archers, gunners, collars, foot and horse Cossacks and swan fishermen who caught swans at the royal table! While I was writing, I became interested in the archers and everything connected with them.

Well, then the British publishing house Osprey published my book about the army of pre-Petrine Russia, including about wooden fortresses, like my Penza, and about archers in colored caftans and coats of coats.


Riflemen of a mixed regiment aimed at suppressing Razin's uprising: 1 - half-head ("five hundred"); 2 - centurion approx. 1679; 3 - an ordinary archer; 4 - drummer boy. Rice. Angus McBride

Well, to begin the story about the rifleman uniform, of course, it should be noted that the history of the riflemen as a regular infantry of the Russian State began in 1550, when a detachment of 3000 men was formed from the then beepers. Under Ivan IV, there were already 7000 of them (2000 horsemen), and in 1584 - 20. At first, the "Streletskaya hut", later "Streletsky Prikaz" was in charge of their affairs.

The archers were from Moscow, who played the role of a kind of tsarist guard, and policemen, quartered in the cities.

Caftans on the regiments: the multicolored rifle army of pre-Petrine Russia
Russian Sagittarius 1675 - drawing from the book Foster G., Hoch P., Muller R. "Uniformen europaischer Armeen" VEB, Berlin, 1978. P. 67

The uniforms and weapons were common to all archers. All the archers, without exception (they had to be dressed!), Were dressed in a long-length "Russian cut" caftan, a sash with which the caftan was girded, a cap-cap and boots. That, in fact, is all we know about them. Initially, the color of the caftans could be very different. So, the Englishman D. Horsey wrote about the archers of Ivan the Terrible that they “very neatly dressed in velvet, multi-colored silk and stamed clothes". And he added: “... a thousand archers in red, yellow and blue robes, with shiny weapons and squeaks are placed in the ranks by their superiors».

Another Englishman J. Fletcher in 1588 described them as follows:

“The archer or infantryman has no weapons, except for a gun in hand, a cane on the back and a sword on the side. The stock of his rifle is not the same as that of a musket, but smooth and straight, somewhat similar to the stock of a hunting rifle, the finish of the barrel is rough and unskilful, and it is quite heavy, although they shoot from it with a small bullet. "

Many other foreigners who visited Russia also wrote about the archers. So, one of them described the archers of the middle of the XNUMXth century as follows:

“Their weapon consisted of a gun, to which they saluted; a reed, which looks like a crescent moon (a characteristic shape, known to us from many surviving samples - V.Sh.), stuck in front of each in the ground, and a saber, hanging from the side. Their caftans were quite elegant, one of the regiments was made of light green, and the other was made of dark green cloth, buttoned, according to Russian custom, on the chest with gold laces a quarter length. "

That is, some part of the archers had caftans green, but also scarlet - these are also found in the descriptions of foreigners.

Then the Swede Erik Palmqvist in 1674 wrote his "Illustrated Book of Russia", which contained 53 drawings of various formats, and among the drawings of his book there are images of archers (p. 247), and on p. 254 there was even an image of a Russian archery berdysh with holes along the butt! Actually, any artist could then simply take and redraw these images. Moreover, there were four figures: regimental officers and an ordinary rifleman in full armor.


The commanding people of the rifle regiment and the private rifleman. E. Palmkvist "Illustrated book about Russia", 1674. Facsimile edition. Boris N. Presidential Library Yeltsin, Moscow


The same illustration showing a close-up of the archer

Palmkvist also writes that there were 14 rifle regiments in Moscow, named after their commanders, giving their numbers and the full range of colors of their uniforms. That is, thanks to this book, we have a source of exceptional value on the uniforms of our rifle regiments.


Strelets and Streletsky chief of the middle of the XNUMXth century. Rice. R. Pallacios-Fernandez

The regiments were commanded by "shooters' heads" (tysyatsky), half-heads (five hundred), centurion officers and sergeants (pentecostals and foremen). Boyars and princes were often their heads. The rest of the children of the boyars and nobles became the sergeants from the archers themselves. On March 25, 1680, the archers were ordered to “command against a foreign rank", That is, the commanding ranks to be"from heads to stewards and colonels, from half heads to semi-colonels, from centurions to captains". The Sagittarians didn't like it, but they had to do it. Peter I completely abolished all Moscow archers in 1711, but city archers existed in cities until 1716.


Streltsy of the "colored" Moscow regiments of 1672 (based on the book by E. Palmkvist): 1 - shooter head E.P. Lutokhin; 2 - a standard-bearer with a hundredth banner; 3 - archer of the 3rd regiment; 4 - a shooter of the 13th regiment in a marching uniform - a homespun caftan; 5 - five hundred (or "five hundred") of the 3rd regiment; 6 - archer of the 8th regiment

Now let's look at one more illustration by R. Pallacios-Fernandez, again based on the book by E. Palmqvist. True, it was impossible to determine the colors of the ports (trousers), the lower caftan and the sash from his (Palmqvist's) drawings, therefore, as you can see, they are not shown here. Perhaps, the original colors of the caftans were conveyed not quite accurately when printing, and the colors of that time from natural dyes, it was hardly possible to reproduce accurately. Nevertheless, let's see ...

Moscow regiments and centesimal banners from the Strelets' orders of 1674 (according to E. Palmqvist):

The 1st stirrup regiment of Yegor Petrovich Lutokhin had the largest number - 1500 people. A red caftan with a yellow lining, boots of a yellow farm (constantly mentioned in the novel "People Walking" by Chapygin), a hat with a fur band, for ordinary archers with sheepskin fur, and for bosses with sable.

2nd - regiment of Ivan Fedorovich Poltev - 1000 people. At Chapygin they are constantly called white caftans, that is, they wore caftans made of white cloth. But in the above illustration, their color is different, rather blue.

3rd - regiment of Vasily Borisovich Bukhvostov - 1000 people. Green caftans and, again, yellow boots. Apparently, the material from which they were sewn was then very common. The 14th regiment was dressed in the same way - Afanasy Ivanovich Levshin, numbering 1000 people, but they differed in the lining of the caftans.

4th - regiment of Fyodor Ivanovich Golovlinsky - 800 people. The color of the caftans is crimson, just like in the regiment of the 11th Davyd Grigorievich Vorontsov, numbering 600 people.

5th - regiment of Fyodor Vasilyevich Aleksandrov, numbered 800 people, dressed in "meat-colored" caftans.

6th - regiment of Nikifor Ivanovich Kolobov, consisting of 900 people. Yellow caftans, green hats and ... red, for distinction, boots.

7th - regiment of Stefan Fedorovich Yanov - 1000 people. Apparently dressed in blue caftans.

8th - regiment of Timofey Fedorovich Poltev - 800 people. Just like the 10th - Fyodor Abramovich Lopukhin (1000 people), he wore orange caftans (in R.P-F's illustration they look like orange, but rather it was still red) cloth and, again, green leather (or suede) boots.

9th - regiment of Peter Abramovich Lopukhin - 1200 people. He was dressed in dark blue caftans (purple in the illustration) with orange or red lining and complete with yellow boots. A similar color was for the riflemen of the 12th regiment - Ivan Ivanovich Naramansky, 600 people. But only the lining was of a different color.

Finally, Lagovskin's 13th regiment (600 men) had the same caftans as in the 9th and 12th regiments, but differed in green cloth caps and lining.

It is difficult to determine the colors of the lapel tabs; moreover, they simply were not on the field caftans. Only buttons. But it is known that on campaigns the archers very often wore white, gray and black coats of coats, and the treasury released bad cloth on the hats, that is, it quickly faded. Also, there were no colored "uniforms" of city archers. All of them sported in sermyaga caftans.

As for weapons, the archers were armed with a match musket and a reed - a moon-shaped ax with a long shaft that could be worn on a belt behind the back. It was used as a support for a musket, and as a weapon of the security service in cities. The holes on the butt served for the rings with which the sentinel archers thundered at night, bypassing the city with a patrol and frightening the "dashing people" at the same time, and letting the lattice guards (street guards who locked each street on the "lattice") know that they had to go out and ... open pass them. In general, as you can see, wandering around the streets of old Russian cities at night was not at all easy, as they say - neither walk nor drive!

All archers wore sabers. In the XNUMXth century, the Polish model. The people in command were recognized by the protazans.

The only protective armor of the archers could be an "iron hat" worn on a cloth hat that served as a comforter. But, apparently, it cannot be said that the archers abused wearing it!


Figures of archers on a scale of 1:72 are now produced by the Russian enterprise "Zvezda"

There were three types of banners: regimental (richly embroidered, rarely put into service), centennial (company), often sewn from the fabric of regimental uniforms and usually with a colored cross, and small "fifty" or fraternal banners - in fact, small flags.

It is interesting that cloth for caftans was released to Moscow archers annually, according to a report in 1660, but to the policemen - once every three or four years. The edibles were also centrally dispensed: for the archer, a half-carcass of mutton every week, and for the ten's manager - a carcass, and for the archer three, and for the ten's manager five loaves of bread per week "on the shovel of the planted". Well, those who are higher - were given accordingly. How much was plundered in this case ... no one knows!

It is interesting that, despite the decree of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich, it is common to wear beards and mustaches without trimming, the archers, as they wanted, cut their hair, mostly in a circle, and many even shaved.
Author:
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  1. tone
    tone 5 January 2022 06: 10
    +7
    In the summer, too, in the heat, did you wear a caftan, or was there an easy option?
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 5 January 2022 06: 31
      +5
      The tradition of meeting by clothes has become firmly established in all spheres of life. In general, everything is informative. good
      Here they ask about summer. And, really, was there a "summer uniform"?
      1. kalibr
        5 January 2022 08: 07
        +16
        This was the summer uniform: a shirt and a caftan. And in winter they put on a fur coat - with fur, or a sheepskin coat, also with fur. And boyars wore sable coats like that all year round! It was from a uniform - a fur coat with sables and a “throat-hat”.
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 5 January 2022 08: 01
      +8
      I think that these are clothes for all seasons, in the winter a fur coat was added. Traditionally, the fabric is linen. Wool is an expensive fabric.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 09: 03
        +9
        Wool is an expensive fabric.
        Given the fact that on the average strength of the rifle regiment, a flock of 400-500 heads of sheep was slaughtered per week, I don't think so.
  2. Andrey Moskvin
    Andrey Moskvin 5 January 2022 07: 02
    +10
    No weapons other than a gun, a reed and a sword. laughing
  3. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 5 January 2022 07: 31
    +4
    Kaftans with long hems and arms ... when they get wet you don't run into them a lot ... what how did they fight in that case?
    1. kalibr
      5 January 2022 08: 04
      +6
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      how they fought then in that case

      And no one fought in the rain. The gunpowder got wet, the bowstrings were damp, the horses glided. Why fight in the rain? And we didn't fight in winter ...
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 09: 24
        +11
        And we didn't fight in winter ...
        The first and second Kazan campaigns were carried out in the cold season, the Livonian War began in January.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 January 2022 09: 57
          +9
          I'll support Anton. If I am not mistaken, Vladimir Monomakh conducted the first Patriotic Winter Campaign (if not counting civil strife) against the Polovtsians by pushing “peshtsy” to the southern borders by a “sled train”. Later, Novgorodians repeatedly walked in exile on the ice. In addition to the Kazan campaigns mentioned by Anton, during the time of Ivan the Terrible's grandfather, in winter they went skiing behind the "Stone".
          He personally wore an overcoat for four years of study at the institute. The thing is quite versatile. In autumn and spring it is irreplaceable. In the time of Ivan the Terrible, the covering of caftans was slightly different, as was the dressing of cloth. So it is rash to make the identity between the greatcoat and the rifleman's caftan. Kaftan is more simplified clothing, fabric is thinner. Although in my hands I held only samples of the caftans of the commanding people. Here I agree with Vyacheslav Olegovich Streletsky caftan is a summer uniform. In the autumn period, they put on soul warmers and sleeveless jackets, quilted jackets. In winter, sheepskin coats (sheepskin coats), felt boots.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 5 January 2022 16: 04
            +4
            The thing is quite versatile. In the autumn-spring period, irreplaceable

            An irreplaceable overcoat can be in one case - there is nothing to replace.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 5 January 2022 09: 39
        +8
        And no one fought in the rain.


        Interestingly, and the enemy adhered to the same tactics: "War - war, and lunch on schedule"? wink

        Thank you, Vyacheslav, I love your articles, they are always very beautifully illustrated. smile
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 5 January 2022 10: 03
          +4
          Hi Kostya!
          You generally love pictures! drinks
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 5 January 2022 10: 50
            +8
            Hello, Sasha!
            Yes, I myself love to draw, besides it was said long ago - "Better to see once than hear a hundred times." smile
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 5 January 2022 11: 14
              +4
              Will you send your drawings or paintings?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 5 January 2022 11: 34
                +6
                I have no pictures, only easel graphics. And there is nothing to send on the topic now.))
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 5 January 2022 11: 55
                  +2
                  Send to. Email
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 5 January 2022 12: 52
                    +4
                    Something I have already sent to "soap". smile
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 5 January 2022 15: 07
                      +2
                      Something I have already sent to the "soap"
                      And me ??? crying
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 5 January 2022 15: 56
                        +3
                        So you seem to have everything. smile
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 16: 01
                        +2
                        Charts are not. And "Shpakovsky".
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 January 2022 11: 58
                  +6
                  How is it not?
                  But what about the epic paintings "Argentine Tank" and "Shpakovsky's Apocalypse" ???
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 5 January 2022 12: 11
                    +2
                    You saw them?
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 5 January 2022 12: 33
                      +3
                      Certainly. Uncle Kostya posted them on the forum.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 5 January 2022 12: 55
                        +7
                        Anton, do you know that a new series about cops is being shot at Lenfilm, called "The Chronicles of Captain Mikhailov"?
                        The main role is played by the captain himself! good drinks

                        The poster is already ready. laughing drinks
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 13: 15
                        +3
                        Bravo, Uncle Kostya!
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 5 January 2022 13: 21
                        +4
                        Bravo to the inflexible optimist - Captain Mikhailov! smile good drinks
      3. paul3390
        paul3390 5 January 2022 13: 04
        0
        And we didn't fight in winter ...

        It was in the winter that they fought. For with the then sadness with the roads - meaningful movement of large masses of infantry, especially with heavy guns, is possible only along the winter roads on sledges. Well - in the summer, of course, you can still go along the river on ships. But rivers are not everywhere where you need to eat ..

        Here's a horse army to launch a raid - yes, it is possible in the summer.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 5 January 2022 13: 20
          +1
          We fought both summer and winter! And there were roads.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 5 January 2022 13: 36
            -2
            It depends on where they fought .. They could have sent a cavalry army to the Crimeans in the summer, but a serious army .. You can read how even in winter the Great Tsar's outfit, in the sense of heavy artillery, was dragged by a trooper in the Polotsk campaign ..
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 5 January 2022 13: 47
              +1
              These are already particulars. We fought both in winter and in summer
    2. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 5 January 2022 11: 40
      +7
      Sagittarius, after all, is not a field army, but rather an urban one. That is, they often fought defending fortresses. You don't need to run a lot there. And if in the field, then fenced off with carts or the walls of the Gulyai-city.
      That is, everything is not so bad. In addition, the inconvenience of long floors is a little far-fetched. Soldiers also ran in greatcoats. The cavalry, by the way, were almost to the floor. And the long sleeves of the archers are only on the single rows of the initial people, but they, as a rule, were behind the back and interfered with nothing more than the mentics of the hussars hanging on the shoulder.
      I'm interested in something else ...
      The regiments were commanded by "shooters' heads" (tysyatsky), half-heads (five hundred), centurion officers and sergeants (pentecostals and foremen). The heads were often boyars and princes.

      I just want to ask, right there boyars?
      1. LisKat2
        LisKat2 5 January 2022 14: 08
        +4
        It is quite possible that at the head of the rifle regiment was one of the "skinny" boyars. After all, not all boyars sat in the Boyar Duma?
        For example. Tolstoy has such characters in "Peter": Mishka Tyrtov "", "Wall Odoevsky", they could serve in archers and command
        1. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 5 January 2022 15: 07
          +9
          Quote: LisKat2
          After all, not all boyars sat in the Boyar Duma?

          You see. For some reason, it is believed that the boyars are a kind of separate class, but in fact in the 16-17 centuries this is a rank. The highest rank in the Russian state, who could be welcomed by the tsar. Or maybe not.
          Quote: LisKat2
          For example. Tolstoy has such characters in "Petra": Mishka Tyrtov "

          The Tyrtovs, of course, are an old family, but not like the boyars, who never even rose to the okolnichs. During this period, its representatives rose to the rank of "Moscow nobles" (this is also a rank), stewards, solicitors, and so on, but not higher.
          The Odoevskys are another matter. This is one of the noble families (there are only 16 of them), which gave birth to many boyars. Moreover, its members were usually honored in the boyars, bypassing the rank of devious and others. Here are just arrows in this family were not found :)))
          Look at the list of rifle regiments given in the text. Do you see the Odoevskys there?
          In general, in the second half of the 17th century, the Russian administration took care of somehow incorporating the rifle heads and (I apologize for the tautology) colonels of the regiments of the new order into the system of state officials. And all of them were recorded by the stewards. This is the level of the shooter's head. Not higher.
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 5 January 2022 22: 20
            +2
            Quote: Senior Sailor
            You see. For some reason, it is believed that the boyars are a kind of separate class, but in fact in the 16-17 centuries this is a rank. The highest rank in the Russian state, who could be welcomed by the tsar. Or maybe not.

            Those. "Boyar children", under Ivan IV, for example (16th century, right?), these are people planted on the ground, exclusively by those representatives of "service people in the fatherland", whom the Sovereign granted the title of "boyar"? So?
            How then, at the reviews, were the "children" of those representatives of the hereditary aristocracy who were not awarded the title of "boyar" recorded?
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 6 January 2022 01: 05
              +2
              In short. Initially, the boyar children are former vigilantes of large patrimonials, who, under Ivan III and IV, were taken from the boyars and given estates on lands taken from the Novgorod and Tver aristocrats. Thus, they became vassals directly to the sovereign and served exclusively to him. That is, "children" in this case are not relatives, but dependent people. Equal - brother. The highest is the father. the lowest is the son.
              In the described time, "boyar children" is also a rank. Just one of the lowest in the category. The discharge ladder looked like this:
              Duma officials.
              1) Boyarin.
              2) Okolichny.
              3) Duma nobleman.
              4) Dummy clerk.
              Moscow ranks.
              5) Stoolniki.
              6) Solicitor
              7) Moscow nobles.
              8) Residents.
              Police officers.
              9) Boyar children.
              10) City nobles. (Or "nobles in service with the city").
              The Boyarsky children were considered "servants of the fatherland" and formed the basis of the local army. Their daughters were supposed to participate in bride shows. That is, with a certain stretch they could be equated with Western European knights.
              Quote: HanTengri
              How then, at the reviews, were the "children" of those representatives of the hereditary aristocracy who were not awarded the title of "boyar" recorded?

              When making up for the service, the children of "hereditary aristocrats" (at least of the highest ranks) were, as a rule, registered as "nobles according to the Moscow list." That is, "Moscow nobles". Further, depending on luck and origin. The less well-born began their service with the lower ranks.
              In principle, representatives of "city ranks" could also be included in this list for their great merits. But, as a rule, only towards the end of the service. But in this case, their children (already in a related sense :)) could pretend to be at least tenants.
          2. LisKat2
            LisKat2 7 January 2022 09: 13
            0
            Merry Christmas. My alert does not work and I do not know about the answers
            For example, I mentioned these names. And then, purely theoretically: the regiment commander is not a hereditary position
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 7 January 2022 11: 17
              0
              Quote: LisKat2
              Merry Christmas.

              Rejoice, for the son of God was born!
              Quote: LisKat2
              And then, purely theoretically: the regiment commander is not a hereditary position

              As well as, purely in fact, the rank of the boyar :)))
          3. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 7 January 2022 09: 53
            0
            hi , for 16 births can you get more details?
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 7 January 2022 11: 44
              +3
              1) Cherkassk - Inalids. Relatives of Ivan the Terrible by his wife.
              2) Vorotynsky - Rurikovich. Descendants of the princes of Chernigov.
              3) Trubetskoy - the descendants of Gedimin, who originally owned the Trubetskoy principality and together with it moved to Moscow.
              4) Golitsyn - Gediminovich. Descendants of Patrike Zvenigorodsky, who moved to Moscow with his inheritance.
              5) Khovansky - Gediminovichi. Descendants of Narimunt, ransomed by Ivan Kalita from the Horde captivity and since then have always served Moscow.
              6) Morozovs - descendants of Mikhail Prushanin
              7) Sheremetevs - descendants of Andrey Kobyla
              8) Odoevsky - Rurikovich. Descendants of the Chernigov princes.
              9) Pronskiy - Rurikovich.
              10) Sheins - descendants of Mikhail Prushanin, one of the branches of the Morozovs
              11) The Saltykovs are also a branch of the Morozovs
              12) Repnins - Rurikovichs. Descendants of the Chernigov princes.
              13) Prozorovskys - Rurikovichs. Descendants of the Yaroslavl princes.
              14) Buinosovs - Rurikovichs. Descendants of the Rostov princes.
              15) Khilkovs - Rurikovichs. Descendants of the princes Starodubsky
              16) The Urusovs are the descendants of Edigei.
  4. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 5 January 2022 08: 58
    +5
    to the archer, a half-carcass of mutton every week, and to the ten's manager - a carcass, and to the archer three, and to the ten's manager five loaves of bread a week "for a shovel of fathoms."
    One gets the impression that it was much better with meat than with bread.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 5 January 2022 09: 36
      +3
      Hi, hello!
      Interesting quartermaster approach! In the article, if you believe the number of regiments is 9600. That is 5760 sheep per week!
      'One gets the impression that it was much better with meat than with bread. "(C) Even then it was understood that flour was harmful!
      Around 300000 rams are produced annually. And if you remember about the tumens of the Mongols. laughing
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 09: 42
        +2
        Hello Alexander!
        It was easier for the Mongols, they went on meat.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 5 January 2022 10: 01
          +1
          It is known that the Mongol had at least 3 horses. Tumen 300000 horses! And 10000 eaters. How do you like that. A horse is a variety of food, about 20-30 kg and a bucket of warm drinks. Interesting calculations! drinks
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 5 January 2022 10: 11
            +5
            Quote: ee2100
            Tumen 300000 horses

            extra zero
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 5 January 2022 10: 22
              +3
              Right! Overdid it!
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 January 2022 16: 08
            +7
            Quote: ee2100
            Interesting calculations!

            Yes, quite ...
            And here's another, Alexander (yes, welcome hi ) I propose to do some calculations ...
            We take one Russian peasant household. The average family is five people (father, mother and three children), one horse, one cow, heels of sheep, a pig, and a bird. At the beginning of winter, in every yard of forage, at least five months of feeding this horde.
            In total, we have at least 750 daily rations for one person, 150 daily rations for cattle and plus small items for sheep, pigs and poultry.
            The middle village - three courtyards - multiply by three. Plus larger villages with the estates of boyars, vigilantes, tiuns, etc.
            The population density, for example, in the Suzdal opolye, can be judged at least by this video (spend half an hour, look, the time will not be wasted):

            Opole, by the way, was completely destroyed, like many other areas.
            It seems to me that the Mongols did not have to carry with them a huge baggage of fodder. smile
            And the idea of ​​some clever "anti-Mongolists", according to which the Mongolian army was walking along a single road, stretching out in one multi-kilometer column in single file, is generally out of the realm of delirium.
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 5 January 2022 17: 53
              +2
              Hi Michael!
              Again, when discussing with you, I can use the phone, due to different circumstances. I watched the film. Interesting and informative, and most importantly enthusiastic people who move the science of history. I read somewhere that the average family is 4 people. It was from this number that the number of settlements was calculated. And further. In the 11-12 centuries, the population of Russia is estimated somewhere around 1 million people.
              Ryazan is the southeastern border region of Russia. And naturally, when everything is calm, she is actively developing. And when the Tatars came, she also postrod the most. One of the ways of the invasion of the Tatars passed through the Ryazan region. It is possible to argue that the Tatars counted on the fodder base of the rural population, but they still need to get to it. If I am not mistaken in the Laurentian Chronicle, the appearance of the Tatars is described just from the forest. Maybe not in single file, but it's a matter of faith or guesswork.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 6 January 2022 18: 23
                +1
                There was no opportunity yesterday to give a substantive answer.
                First.
                If the average family is four people, this excludes population growth, and at this time it is recorded by archeology very unambiguously. So five is the minimum. The population of one million is more than decent considering that more than 90 percent are rural residents.
                Questions of faith have nothing to do with it. The "mechanics" of the steppe raids on Russia is well known - the breakthrough of the defensive line and dispersal over the region with the aim of plundering the population. "Spread" on the ground. If you are ready to assert that the Mongols were significantly different in this regard from the Polovtsians, this needs to be proved.
                The Mongols defeated the Ryazan people near Voronezh - they plundered the Ryazan land, the Suzdal people near Kolomna - began to plunder the Suzdal land. The army marched not in a dense column, but dispersed along a front of several tens, sometimes more than a hundred kilometers, gathering only in case of detection of an enemy army for a general battle. Separate detachments went on like this - from village to village in a given direction, maintaining constant communication with each other. The round-up hunt, which they practiced in the steppe, covering many tens of kilometers, was a training for them to raid. A crescent moon, horns towards the enemy, in the middle of which is the commander - and so hundreds, thousands and darkness, plus reconnaissance - far and near.
                So there were no columns wandering through the snowy forest. One hundred passed along one road, another, parallel to it, and so on. as a result - a frontal attack as wide as required for a permanent elbow connection of the parts.
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 6 January 2022 18: 49
                  0
                  Good evening!
                  About four people, this is not about growth, but about statistics. Historians themselves have come up with a method for calculating the population of cities. The known area was divided into 6 acres and multiplied by 4 (average family). 1 person is somewhere around 20% - a perfectly acceptable error. As far as I remember, on the border of the Ryazan region, the Tatars took one fortress (I don’t remember the name and I’m too lazy to look for it) and from there they sent envoys to Ryazan, among whom was a lady identified in the chronicles as a sorceress. If you believe the chronicle!
                  What the film you recommend is about destroyed agricultural settlements just during the invasion of the Tatars. And by the way - you noticed that there were no pectoral crosses in the finds, but there were quite a few falcons in the form of a trident (about your story). The local population relaxed, in terms of defense, it probably really was a few quiet years (decades), so they were shocked. And they raids in Africa raids - one tactic. Described by you.
                  "The army marched not in a dense column, but dispersed along a front of several tens, sometimes more than a hundred kilometers, gathering only if an enemy army was found for a general battle." looting. I extrapolate this situation to my beloved Battle of Rakovor, we can confidently say that they went to the battle site just in single file.
                  It is a pity that Edward will never turn the "Mongol" in our direction. Then it would be possible to talk in detail and not only you and me.
                  All the best.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 6 January 2022 21: 38
                    +3
                    Quote: ee2100
                    The known area was divided into 6 acres and multiplied by 4 (average family).

                    A very rough methodology: the estates were different in size and also differed in different cities. If I am not mistaken, it was developed by Tolochko Sr., and it has been repeatedly specified in different cities. But not the point. He counted four people from the word "no less", making a reservation, as far as I remember, that "most likely more."
                    The strategy of confronting the steppe inhabitants had been taking shape in Russia for several centuries and consisted in bringing the squads to the border of their land to meet the invaders, to give battle and, if you were not lucky, to sit out in the cities.
                    This is how the Ryazan and Suzdal princes acted. They just did not understand who they were dealing with until the very end.
                    Regarding the Battle of Rakovorskoy, the chronicle clearly says "we parted in three ways." That is, the Danish possessions in Estonia have undergone a very thorough looting. This is indirectly evidenced by the speed of movement of the Russian army, which has dropped significantly since the moment the Russians crossed the Narova.
                    Regarding our Eduard Vaschenko - I hope that when the article about the Western campaign comes out, I will be able to discuss this topic in detail. Now there is not much time that I could devote to VO.
                    However, there is nothing special to discuss, to be honest.
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 7 January 2022 05: 10
                      +1
                      In the annals, a lot is written, for example, about the story of the cave. laughing
                      The fact that "but three ways" parted is nothing more than the author's imagination. Show me at least one way, except for the one indicated by me, and we will talk in detail.
                      "The speed of movement of the Russian army, which has dropped significantly since the moment the Russians crossed the Narova" (c) Mikhail, where is this said?
                      No one argues that the territories were thoroughly plundered, but only after the battle.
                      From Novgorod to Rakvere about 400 km, they traveled 25 days (according to the chronicle) i.e. 16 km per day. Considering that the daylight hours are short in winter, it is quite normal.
                      It became boring on the site, I agree. About Santa Claus is already being published. I'm waiting for the confession of the Snow Maiden! drinks
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 7 January 2022 09: 18
                        +3
                        As for the chronicles, you will finally decide. All the chronicles are lying, one particular one is lying, or what? And then you "here I believe, here I do not believe." I like it here - I believe it, here I don’t - I don’t believe it. You need to justify your position. Why did the chronicler decide to lie exactly here and how is this lie refuted? Only specifically.
                        Caves:
                        Experts believe that there are few natural caves in Estonia (about 100), of which even fewer are extensive and convenient for shelter. The longest natural caves in Estonia are Virulase (54 m) near Tuhala in Garija (Harju County) and Allikukivi (approx. 40 m) near Tihemetsa near Pärnu (South Estonia). In Eastern Virginia, oil shale deposits prompted the early 1000th century. to the industrial development of mineral resources. As a result, many huge artificial caves were formed (Ubya, Kohtla - up to 10 m long). The preserved artificial caves are much smaller. The largest in Vironia are two: Oru (Oru, length approx. 25 m) and Vodava (Vodava; approx. 115 m) 45. Vodava looks the most suitable for accommodating a large group of people: its volume is approx. 1,8 m³ and aisle height of approx. 116 m XNUMX. And the cave in Oru is more convenient for flooding. It can be assumed that it was Vodava that was flooded by the Russians, which is why it received the name consonant with the Russian “water” (voda).
                        Source: http://www.a-nevsky.ru/library/severnie-krestonosci-rus-v-borbe-za-sferi-vliyaniya-v-vostochnoy-pribaltike24.html

                        On the same page there is a diagram of the Rokorsky campaign with an indication of the settlements and caves.
                        So the "three ways" and three days near the cave and the flooding itself - all this is quite real and the chronicle message, if you do not trust it, you need to substantively refute, and not unfoundedly deny, as you do.
                        By the way, I looked at the author here, whom you praise as his ... Well, the one who proves that Genghis Khan was a Cossack.
                        He mastered only the preface, did not read further, everything became clear.
                        Do you want me to analyze this preface especially for you? There is nonsense on nonsense, it just hurts your eyes.
                        Well, we have already talked about the roads. They were not built, they were laid. From village to village as needed. The design, construction and maintenance of roads began much later, at that time there were, rather, directions. Here we moved along them as it was more convenient.
                      2. ee2100
                        ee2100 7 January 2022 10: 28
                        0
                        Good day! I will answer later. About the Vodova cave. Several years ago they were looking for her, she should have been from the sea, but they never found laughing
                        Almost all normal historians recognize this etizod as a copy of ancient Greek mythology. One to one. Somehow it is not clear about the three paths. They went from village to village and on February 18 found themselves in the area of ​​modern Symeru! Day by day and hour by hour. On yours it turns out there an arrow was hammered! But if the "arrow" then the course of the battle should be completely different!
                        And about the three ways, how the knights fled towards the Rakvere castle? There is still one road hi
                        Let's talk about the book separately, but you need to read it all, and not the preface. The site that you advertise is known to me and the thoughts there are clear what they are driving at.
                      3. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 7 January 2022 11: 32
                        +1
                        Maybe mi mythology. Then what is the myth? "Three ways" is obviously a cliche for "loose", not together.
                        About Simeru is also not a fact, we discussed it. The Viru-Nigula version seems to me much more reasonable. Nobody scored the arrow, the Germans were waiting for the Russians in the place that was inevitable on the way to Rakovor.
                        There is no point in reading the entire book. It is unlikely that the level of argumentation and scientific erudition of the author, demonstrated in the preface, is very different from what is in the book itself. And this level is extremely low. I don't want to waste time.
                        Cave - are you saying that it does not exist and did not exist?
                        The site is good. The literature presented there, with a few exceptions, is quite decent.
                      4. ee2100
                        ee2100 7 January 2022 11: 58
                        0
                        There was a cave, but it either collapsed or was not very deep. Everything there is overgrown with bushes and trees - this is the clay itself. He talked to one of them that about 20 years ago drug addicts took a fancy to her and they were not the first to walk, but the depth was no more than 5 meters and there was a large boulder outside.
                        Bring and look at V-Nigula and Symeru and understand that I am right. We can drive all the way.
                        On the account of the book. Pay attention to the sources. There are a huge number of them.
                        Maybe some of the historians will criticize it, although it is unlikely.
          3. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 11 January 2022 21: 31
            0
            Quote: ee2100
            It is known that the Mongol had at least 3 horses. Tumen 300000 horses! And 10000 eaters. How do you like that. A horse is a variety of food, about 20-30 kg and a bucket of warm drinks. Interesting calculations! drinks

            You sir, do not equate the European domestic horse and the semi-wild Mongolian horses. That do without these frills
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 5 January 2022 10: 05
      +2
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      One gets the impression that it was much better with meat than with bread.


      Romanov breed of sheep is most likely the closest to those sheep that were bred in the 17th century

      carcass weight is only 14 kg
      half carcass - 7 kg

      and this is not clean meat yet

      "The weight of the carcass is determined by weighing the animal with kidneys and perineal fat, but without skin, internal organs, head, legs and tail (fat tail). The front legs are separated at the carpal joint, the hind legs at the hock joint."

      But the bread could be the size of a shovel.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 10: 30
        +9
        "Hobbits are not only valuable fur, but also 15-20 kilograms of delicious high-calorie meat!" (S) (Orcish proverb)
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 January 2022 11: 07
          +9
          How was it in the "Head of Chukotka"?

          I wonder where so many rams were recruited to feed the archers?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 January 2022 11: 50
            +8
            I don't know how about the rabbits, but judging by the scattering of minuses on the branch, the hamsters are definitely fatty.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 5 January 2022 12: 32
              +8
              In my opinion, I have already laid out this drawing, but it is too good for the hamster theme. laughing
          2. ee2100
            ee2100 5 January 2022 14: 03
            +2
            There are always enough sheep in Russia! laughing
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 5 January 2022 14: 10
              +2
              Yeah, in both senses. laughing
          3. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 5 January 2022 15: 10
            +6
            Quote: Sea Cat
            where so many rams were recruited to feed the archers

            A very common cattle at that time. differs from others in that it requires very little maintenance. By the way, recently, the livestock of these artiodactyls is growing.
          4. Undecim
            Undecim 5 January 2022 16: 07
            +6
            I wonder where so many rams were recruited to feed the archers?

            Yes, really interesting. After all, there was no "news" section of the VO website at that time.
  5. Private SA
    Private SA 5 January 2022 09: 13
    +6
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    to the archer, a half-carcass of mutton every week, and to the ten's manager - a carcass, and to the archer three, and to the ten's manager five loaves of bread a week "for a shovel of fathoms."
    One gets the impression that it was much better with meat than with bread.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    We would have such a standard of allowance in the Soviet Army. And then all the unshaven pork fat,
    and pearl barley.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 January 2022 10: 06
      +7
      We would have such a standard of allowance in the Soviet Army. And then all the unshaven pork fat,
      and pearl barley.

      Considering that the family of the archer should live on this allowance for a week, and the families were not small from four to ten mouths. The issue of superiority is controversial. Most of the archers were engaged in small craft. They kept cattle, gardened.
      The situation was aggravated even more by the fact that the "put fodder" was not paid for years, however, like the "cloth", I will not say anything about the money at all. It is not surprising that the servicemen were easy-going during the years of riots and hard during the campaigns. However, given the formation of the local cavalry, they were definitely much more versatile and combat readiness than anyone else (before the appearance of the regiments of the new order).
      1. kalibr
        5 January 2022 13: 53
        +4
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        They kept cattle, gardened.

        We served for a week, at home for a week. They kept shops where "Streletsky women" were selling during the service week. Shoemaking, furrier, construction, blacksmithing. There were archers-podyachye - two money for writing the document, half a complaint to the tsar ...
  6. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 5 January 2022 09: 22
    +5
    It is noticeable that the respected author did not escape the influence of the New Year's celebration! Just take a look at this nice couple! Clearly just left the table on January 1st to freshen up!

    And the third archer is a regular regimental comedian "at a corporate party, acting in the genre:" Happy New Year! Let's go nafik! I won't be white ... pour some black rum! ... "
    1. LisKat2
      LisKat2 5 January 2022 09: 58
      +2
      Thanks for the amusement. So witty
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 January 2022 16: 00
      +4
      Nikolaevich jokes !!!
      Considering that until 1700, the New Year was celebrated on March 1!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 5 January 2022 17: 02
        +4
        So if you read the Decree of Peter I correctly: "... But do not get drunk to death, since the rest of the days are enough for this."
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2022 20: 40
          +2
          What a good edict! Especially after the comma!
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 5 January 2022 20: 42
            +2
            The Tsar-Father had many decrees. You can pick up any to your taste.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2022 20: 50
              +2
              "What is the pop, so is the arrival"
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 5 January 2022 21: 00
                +1
                To whom the pop, to whom the pop, and to whom the daughter of the priest.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 January 2022 21: 08
                  +1
                  "And your Ulyanka, don’t wear it for nothing! And don’t wear it for nothing, don’t wear it with a dowry!” (C)
                  PS. And about the priest's daughter can be a little more detailed?
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 5 January 2022 22: 01
                    +1
                    Alexander Sergeevich described in detail:

                    “The ass will not be praised by Balda,
                    Popovna only grieves about Balda,
                    Popenok calls him aunts;
                    He will make porridge, babysit the child.
                    Only pop alone does not like Balda,
                    Never sip it
                    He often thinks of retribution;
                    Time is running out, and the deadline is too close "(s)
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 5 January 2022 22: 05
                      0
                      Pushkin did not know such a term - "agent of influence"
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 5 January 2022 22: 37
                        +1
                        “Satisfied that he was not recognized
                        He took off the blanket at the National
                        But despite the personality and accent
                        They called him a ragamuffin there
                        Who pretended to be a foreigner here
                        And he said that, they say, he is an agent "(c).
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 5 January 2022 18: 37
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Nikolaevich jokes !!!
        Considering that until 1700, the New Year was celebrated on March 1!

        Well, I joked a little ... and there is a reason ... the holidays are not completely over yet! (Vlad! Secretly ... until 1700 New Year was celebrated on September 1 ...)
  7. Korsar4
    Korsar4 5 January 2022 09: 38
    +4
    The archers' clothes are good. But the faces in the first two pictures are completely Asian.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 5 January 2022 09: 55
      +8
      They were brave guys ...

      And how it all ended ...
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 5 January 2022 11: 42
        +5
        Globally, yes. But there were still archers near Poltava.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 January 2022 12: 29
          +4
          "A swan song"?))
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 5 January 2022 13: 17
            +5
            And in the Prut campaign too. But they were already absorbed by the regular army and abolished.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 5 January 2022 13: 20
              +4
              Well, the Prut campaign ended in failure altogether. request
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 5 January 2022 13: 23
                +3
                From the song you can not throw out the words.
            2. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 5 January 2022 15: 11
              +6
              Rather, they simply changed into a soldier's uniform and re-formed.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 5 January 2022 17: 05
                +4
                This is probably a matter of interpretation. There is only one process. Reforms come when there is still something to reform.
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 January 2022 16: 27
          +5
          Quote: Korsar4
          Globally, yes. But there were still archers near Poltava.

          Quote: Sea Cat
          "A swan song"?))

          Quote: Senior Sailor
          Rather, they simply changed into a soldier's uniform and re-formed.

          The capital streltsy regiments (orders) were expelled from Moscow after a riot in support of Princess Sophia. Moreover, in 1700, near Narva, Golovin's archers showed themselves quite well, but their time had already passed. The recruitment set has shown its effectiveness and relative cheapness in comparison with archers and local cavalry. According to the leftover principle, the city archers were involved in military operations until 1716. So Konstantin is right The Prut campaign became a swan song for this kind of troops. In the southern Ural fortresses, city archers served until 1720, but here we can already talk about exile.
          Moreover, in the time of Peter the archers were armed not with squeaks, but with fuse. They were taken to the regiments of the new system only until 1702. Later, as the need disappeared, the rifle teams were abolished.
  8. Flooding
    Flooding 5 January 2022 09: 48
    +4
    boots of the yellow host (constantly mentioned in the novel "People Walking" by Chapygin)

    host, host, goat
    tanned goat skin, morocco
  9. LisKat2
    LisKat2 5 January 2022 09: 56
    +5
    All good health. Vyacheslav Olegovich, did you have a good rest after the New Year?
    The second was like boiled: I understood everything, I wanted to sleep, and the third: young and lively
    1. kalibr
      5 January 2022 13: 56
      +3
      I'm not tired of the New Year, Ekaterina, and in general I work as always. It is not customary for us to overeat and get drunk on the New Year. And it gives me pleasure to write. In addition to articles on VO, there are also novels, each more interesting than the other ...
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 22: 28
        0
        I'm not tired of the New Year, Ekaterina, and I work in general as always
        Sounds like Potemkin's letter to the empress.
  10. depressant
    depressant 5 January 2022 10: 30
    +6
    Very, very interesting article!
    And not so much vestment as the very fact of the existence of archers. More than once or twice I have seen pictures of riflemen's clothes before, frankly speaking - beautiful! But I learned for the first time that the "position" of the archer could be inherited)))
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 5 January 2022 13: 55
      +6
      Localism concerned all service people.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 5 January 2022 14: 25
      +2
      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, you just forgot. This was also mentioned in the textbook, I think, by Tolstoy: "Peter 1"? At least I read about in x / l.
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 14: 49
        +2
        Svyatoslav, hello! Happy New Year - once again! )))
        I probably forgot. The 90s have erased a lot from memory. Sometimes I forgot my name wassat )))
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 5 January 2022 15: 38
          +4
          What's true is true. Have experienced such that God forbid.
          People have forgotten how "fun" it was then .. It seems to them that it has never been worse than now ..
          It was also recently
  11. BAI
    BAI 5 January 2022 10: 32
    +9
    "swans to the royal table".
    Where did this legend come from? I ate a swan. Absolutely not edible. Can only be used as a table decoration. And no need to talk about the ability to cook - cooked for 4 hours, but still rubber. And this was not poaching, but a compulsory measure. We went on a hike with a limited supply of food, if we don't get something on the road - hunger.
    1. kalibr
      5 January 2022 13: 59
      +4
      Quote: BAI
      Where did this legend come from?

      This is her legend. Everyone who was in the Penza fortress was registered: how many archers, gunners, watchmen, collars, foot and horse Cossacks, "swan catching", fishers of Sursk sterlet - was considered more tender than the Volga ... Foreigners celebrated - they served swans in feathers !!!
      1. BAI
        BAI 5 January 2022 14: 47
        +5
        Yes, swans are everywhere. Only table decoration and food are two different things.
      2. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 15: 04
        +5
        Already in the XNUMXth century, a writer, also a gamekeeper, Sergei Aksakov wrote: “I don’t understand why swans were considered tasty and honorable food by our great princes and kings. In those days, they must have known the best way to soften their meat. "
        Supposedly the swans were prepared like this.
        First, the swan was marinated in vinegar or yogurt, I suppose at least a day. Then the pickled swan was sent to the Russian oven, where it was subjected to constant heating without baking on an open fire, presumably, for at least 2 - 3 hours, and such culinary techniques helped to make the poultry meat juicy. But the exact recipe has been lost.
        By the way, this is how you can cook chicken. Just not soak in vinegar, but in a solution of curdled milk mixed with peppers, garlic, ketchup and other spices. Then - the oven.
        1. kalibr
          5 January 2022 15: 31
          +4
          Quote: depressant
          with peppers, garlic, ketchup and other spices.

          It's easier for me. Salt with curry on the inside, the same mixture on the outside. Wait two or three hours. Then the apples are sour inside, sew up with toothpicks, into a plastic sleeve and bake in their own juice. Until it turns brown. Diet and tasty. And fast!
          1. depressant
            depressant 5 January 2022 16: 12
            +4
            I looked at these sleeves, looked ... Still, plastic. Yes, and give something to the chicken. Now such sleeves are no longer on sale in our stores. Chickens are on sale)))
            1. kalibr
              5 January 2022 17: 58
              +3
              The sleeve does not touch the chicken! She lies in it on the slices of onions. It burns up and is thrown away. And outside it is blown up by steam! Even a hole has to be made there and it blows up anyway!
  12. Alexey Razygraev
    Alexey Razygraev 5 January 2022 11: 32
    +3
    I am referring to personal communication with Oleg Kurbatov. There are two documents which indicate how, before the arrival of the Swedish embassy (with Palmqvist), the archers were given sabers, and then they were taken back. That is, in this case, despite the eyewitness testimony, there was no saber in the standard armament of the archer. Who and when launched the wild myth that the archers fired from the reed, like from a bipod, apparently, we will never know (the myth is similar to that of the boyar's equestrian son in a tegilai with a bipod, but at least it is known where the legs grow from). The Russian gun did not require a bipod by weight, and if there was such a need, then the bipod was used. And the reed is too short for a bipod. During the shooting, the reed was either behind the back or stuck into the ground nearby. Accordingly, if there was a reed, there was no need for an auxiliary weapon in the form of a saber. If there was no reed, then the option "pig feather" (half-pike) + cleaver could be used.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 5 January 2022 13: 07
      0
      I wonder how they dragged two such not frail fools at once - a fuzee and a berdysh? what
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 5 January 2022 14: 51
        +2
        Paul, the fusii appeared later. The archers had wick squeaks, and fusii were called flintlocks. A similar one is kept in the museum of the Tula Arms Factory, and it seems that the archer's pishchal is also there.
        It is necessary to ask V.O
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 January 2022 17: 07
      +2
      Who and when launched the wild myth that the archers fired from the reed, as from the bipod, apparently, we will never know. The Russian gun did not require a bipod by weight, and if there was such a need, then the bipod was used. And the reed is too short for a bipod. During the shooting, the reed was either behind the back or stuck into the ground nearby.

      I read a similar story from the Polish historian Gerasik. The only thing in the calculations he cites is the length of the shaft of a typical Polish reed, 120 cm. Russian reeds and archers were 170 cm longer on average, the shaft was 142 cm (from the second half of the 17th century) plus ten cm. On the back of the spear. With an average height of 165-170 cm, it is most suitable for shooting from a squeak.
      The squeak's weight was from 8 to 9 kilograms. Caliber 22 mm. So it was not easy to shoot from the hands unambiguously. The caliber and weight were significantly reduced after the transition from wick arms to flint fusées of the Swedish design. Then yes, the need for a bipod disappeared.
      It is controversial for rifle sabers. Horse archers had them unambiguously. Peshtsy, carried as a personal weapon. However, like chain mail under a caftan.
  13. vervolk
    vervolk 5 January 2022 12: 25
    +6

    add content [center]
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2022 12: 38
      +5
      First, just a picture from the packaging specified in the article of a set of soldiers from "Zvezda"
  14. depressant
    depressant 5 January 2022 12: 29
    +4
    Tsar Ivan was terrible, dispersed the impudent squeakers and created an elite army of archers, many of them consisting of ... squeakers! wassat )))
    Well, really, the archers were needed right now, not to open a school for a young soldier, and the squeakers were just those who already knew how to shoot. True, taking into account the mood of the beepers, it was necessary to introduce the institution of recommendations and guarantees.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 5 January 2022 13: 09
      +2
      Tsar Ivan was terrible, he dispersed the arrogant squeakers

      "With a squeak, I look at your generation .." Attributed to Ivan Vasilyevich .. wink
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 13: 22
        +3
        The closer to us, the more menacing the squeak! wassat )))
  15. depressant
    depressant 5 January 2022 12: 52
    +3
    But I didn't really know much about the archers. It seemed that this was such a tsarist special forces, the personal security of the tsar. Considering the knowledge complete, I did not twitch ...
    But Vyacheslav Olegovich's articles are always set up to dig deeper. I dug a streltsy settlement.
    The estate is a house worth 3 rubles, a garden, a vegetable garden, life-long ownership with inheritance. One-time financial assistance of 1 ruble.
    Well, the house ... the smoky hut, the slots in the logs for the windows, covered with oiled canvas, thatched roofs, unpaved streets. In the event of a raid, rescue the household in the fortress or prison. In comparison with other suburbanites lived well.
    And ... the archers worked! They were masters. After all, the war was not always.
    1. CHEREDA73
      CHEREDA73 5 January 2022 13: 11
      +6
      Hello, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.
      It was just that there were craftsmen as well as traders. Namely, that the spirit of the military ceased to be. A very dangerous and corrupting path for the military. A military man should only engage in military craft.
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 13: 33
        +4
        A military man should only engage in military craft.

        So what did the archers produce?
        Grips, stags, openers, doorknobs, chests, tables, carts, sledges and the like. They say the list of products is very long. In addition, the archers had orchards and vegetable gardens, therefore, along with the peasants, they supplied meat, poultry, vegetables and fruits to the city bazaars.
        What are the times, so are the morals. But here we must not forget that in peacetime the archer had to feed a large family. And if the sagittarius died, then the family should have had an established way of feeding. Especially if the children are still young. Moreover, the estate remained with the family of the deceased. At the same time, one of the adult sons had the right to take the father's place in the regiment. But the rest somehow had to feed)))
        1. kalibr
          5 January 2022 14: 03
          +4
          "People walking" read there a lot of everyday details and all of the documents. I checked...
        2. CHEREDA73
          CHEREDA73 5 January 2022 16: 54
          +4
          A military man is, first of all, his spirit, inner attitude.
          When we talk about a regular army, then all these grips, stag beetles, orchards, vegetable gardens have a sharply negative effect. Since at the moment of completing a combat mission, a warrior who is burdened with a similar begins to think about the abandoned economy, and not about the war, and this is unacceptable.
      2. vervolk
        vervolk 5 January 2022 16: 26
        +3
        a moot point. if the military is cut off from the people and even I would say, the civilian economic order, then what will we have? correct-palace coups on behalf of the guard. And if a military man does not have a family and economy, then why will he die on the Molod River? As you know, they don’t die for a salary - the dead don’t need money ...
        1. depressant
          depressant 5 January 2022 17: 05
          +3
          if a military man does not have a family and economy, then why will he die on the Molod River?

          Very reasonable)))
          But I would add something else. During the campaign, I had to fix a lot with my own hands. The Sagittarius had to be a craftsman. Therefore, adult men up to 50 years old were imprisoned in archers. This is taking into account the fact that at that time a person who lived to that age was an old man.
          1. vervolk
            vervolk 5 January 2022 17: 20
            +2
            in turn, I also completely agree with you. in general, it seems to me that the service is the lot of the young, this is a dead end just from the conscript mobilization armies. the most successful military communities consisted of middle-aged people: Cossacks, pirates, landsknechts ...
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 5 January 2022 13: 18
      +4
      You can't find enough glass for all.
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 5 January 2022 14: 59
      +4
      "chicken hut" is not a fact that all archers had similar huts. It is known that many Moscow archers had shops, and shopkeepers, according to the current shop owners, could be different. Accordingly, their homes were different.
  16. CHEREDA73
    CHEREDA73 5 January 2022 13: 06
    +2
    Good day to all.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, informative.
    In practicality, in my opinion, archery clothing surpasses what was persistently dressed in the entire 18th century according to Western patterns.
  17. depressant
    depressant 5 January 2022 13: 18
    +4
    So, the archers were formed as a contract army, having a uniform in cut, the color of which depended on the regiment. And this is back in the middle of the XNUMXth century! Whereas in enlightened Europe, soldiers began to be dressed in uniforms only in the middle of the XNUMXth century. And in Russia, by this time, the uniform had become a familiar army clothing for a long time.
    But, of course, the clothes under the uniform were sewn by the archers themselves. wassat )))
    1. BAI
      BAI 5 January 2022 14: 57
      +5
      And what about the legionnaires of Rome? After all, it is also Europe.
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 15: 15
        +3
        Well, you ask questions too! wassat )))
        You know, sometimes it takes millennia for a simple reasonable decision to come to someone's mind and be implemented in practice. I figured it out. Even a narrow strip of metal on the shoulder from the collarbone to the shoulder blade with a sudden movement of the arm can have a painful effect on the cervical artery. Maybe they tried it and came to the conclusion - it's dangerous! A shoulder strap is not dangerous, it is not iron wassat )))
        Uniforms should not become a source of additional danger for a warrior.
        1. kalibr
          5 January 2022 15: 34
          +4
          Quote: depressant
          A shoulder strap is not dangerous, it is not iron)))

          At the end of the 19th century, British cavalrymen had chain mail shoulder straps, and Austrian dragoons had steel plates under the shoulder straps.
          1. depressant
            depressant 5 January 2022 16: 09
            +2
            At the end of the 19th century, British cavalrymen had chain mail shoulder straps, and Austrian dragoons had steel plates under the shoulder straps.

            At the end of the 19th century)))
            And then they realized that in the era of a bayonet and a bullet, a metal shoulder strap is just an extra take away of heat from the body. Metal has a high heat capacity. Did you feed yourself? Feed the epaulettes.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2022 16: 55
              +3
              And then they realized that in the era of a bayonet and a bullet, a metal shoulder strap is just an extra take away of heat from the body.
              And therefore they began to use a steel body armor.
              1. depressant
                depressant 5 January 2022 17: 10
                +3
                Well, like that, the iron directly adjacent to the tunic? wassat )))
                Such that neither bend nor unbend? )))
                I suppose plug-in plates, vest over protective clothing. And then I remembered the chastity belt. What an atrocity!
                1. Avior
                  Avior 6 January 2022 17: 16
                  +2
                  And then I remembered the chastity belt. What an atrocity!

                  Cruel, I agree, but at a time when DNA tests were not yet done, an urgent need smile
            2. CHEREDA73
              CHEREDA73 5 January 2022 18: 17
              +3
              Well, here I am again with my clarifications :)
              You most likely meant thermal conductivity ... fellow
              1. depressant
                depressant 5 January 2022 18: 29
                +2
                Specific heat)))
                Apply a piece of metal to your body, how do you feel? Well, the thermal conductivity too.
                1. CHEREDA73
                  CHEREDA73 5 January 2022 18: 49
                  +3
                  OK OK...
                  I perfectly understood what you wanted to express, but it makes no sense to delve into the physics of the process and compare the heat capacity and thermal conductivity of steel (iron) with other materials within the framework of this article ...
        2. bk0010
          bk0010 5 January 2022 21: 16
          +1
          Quote: depressant
          I figured it out. Even a narrow strip of metal on the shoulder from the collarbone to the shoulder blade with a sudden movement of the arm can have a painful effect on the cervical artery.
          Initially, the shoulder strap was supposed to give a chance of survival when receiving a chopping blow from a cavalryman (some shako protected the head, but the shoulders without shoulder straps were vulnerable). Therefore, half measures were unacceptable. That's when the shoulder straps began to be used for "censoring" by ranks, then one could already think about "a possible painful effect."
    2. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 5 January 2022 15: 15
      +6
      Quote: depressant
      But, of course, the clothes under the uniform were sewn by the archers themselves.

      They sewed the caftans themselves, since the state provided a piece of cloth and that was all. Turn around as you want. In addition, multi-colored caftans are a dress uniform, which they took care of and often did not wear. And everyday life was much simpler, sometimes, even from homespun.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 January 2022 16: 43
        +6
        An interesting fact.
        At Poltava, on the initiative of Peter, one battalion from the Life Guards regiments (which regiment he forgot) was dressed in gray caftans of the Nizhny Novgorod regiment, which consisted of recruits. The trap succeeded.
        1. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 5 January 2022 17: 52
          +4
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          At Poltava, on the initiative of Peter, one battalion from the Life Guards regiments

          I don’t know how true this is, but this story is found in the literature. But...
          They did not disguise the Life Guards, they were too noticeable, but the Novgorod Soldier Regiment, which later became the Musketeer Regiment.
          It is likely that this regiment was formed on the basis of one of the rifle regiments that were part of the Novgorod discharge regiment.
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 5 January 2022 17: 07
        +4
        And they asked, and rewarded with "a good cloth."
  18. CHEREDA73
    CHEREDA73 5 January 2022 13: 32
    +5
    Quote: kalibr
    And we didn't fight in winter ...

    Well, it's in the heat of the moment ...
    Namely, that in winter they fought in Russia at all times. After the Intercession, the end of agricultural work and forward to gathering and hiking.
    1. kalibr
      5 January 2022 14: 05
      +3
      Quote: CHEREDA73
      Well, it's in the heat of the moment ...
      Namely, that in winter they fought in Russia at all times.

      Yes, I didn't. Rather, he decided not to strain his memory. But still, there was a very specific war in winter. Not typical, let's just say.
      1. CHEREDA73
        CHEREDA73 5 January 2022 14: 27
        +3
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, this has not diminished the respect for you. Every thought cannot be thoroughly verified.
        Yes, and these are all "fleas", as one of my acquaintances, a professor, used to say.
  19. vladcub
    vladcub 5 January 2022 13: 32
    +3
    Q. Oh, and with what fright did the archers have the Swedish banner?
    Then Moscow fought: with the Tatars, Litvin and Poles, and with the Swedes it was quiet and peaceful
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2022 13: 53
      +2
      This is not a Swedish banner, this is the banner of the 7th Rifle Regiment.
    2. kalibr
      5 January 2022 14: 04
      +2
      Quote: vladcub
      Q. Oh, and with what fright did the archers have the Swedish banner?
      Then Moscow fought: with the Tatars, Litvin and Poles, and with the Swedes it was quiet and peaceful

      How did you decide that this is the Swedish banner? This is one of the regimental rifle banners.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 5 January 2022 15: 52
        +2
        Q. Oh, I know that the "streltsy" banner, but look for yourself: exactly the same as the Swedish one - a yellow cross on a blue background
  20. depressant
    depressant 5 January 2022 13: 50
    +2
    An interesting question is why the archers' uniform did not include metal shoulder pads that protect against saber strikes - shoulder straps? We didn't enter, that's all. And there were shoulder straps for the military when, much later, soldier's bags were invented. And the shoulder strap is so that the strap does not rub the shoulder. So rubbed, and hard)))
    And how is it with tourists now?
    1. BAI
      BAI 5 January 2022 14: 51
      +3
      Epaulettes (epaulettes) - to protect the shoulder from a saber strike. If you have a cuirass, you don't need it. And the ensign's leather shoulder strap, so that it is more convenient to carry bags, is already the humor of the USSR Armed Forces.
      As a category tourist, I can assure you that shoulder straps are not needed to carry backpacks. Felt is sewn onto the straps of the backpack.
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 15: 07
        +2
        And, this is how the question was solved - the straps were improved. Indeed, it is logical)))
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 7 January 2022 12: 06
        +1
        "The leather shoulder straps of a warrant officer" I heard such a joke: "from the first day, all warrant officers of the Union. One shoulder strap will be made of brass."
    2. kalibr
      5 January 2022 15: 42
      +4
      Quote: depressant
      And the shoulder strap is so that the strap does not rub the shoulder. So rubbed, and tightly

      No, so that the shoulder strap does not slip! He was above him, not under ...
  21. LisKat2
    LisKat2 5 January 2022 15: 23
    +2
    Vasily Borisovich Bukhvostov ", probably, one of the ancestors: 'the first soldier Bukhvostov" that Peter had in his "amusing"
  22. LisKat2
    LisKat2 5 January 2022 15: 29
    +2
    That's all for today. Until next time
  23. vladcub
    vladcub 5 January 2022 16: 03
    +4
    Comrades, pay attention to the upper illustration: the Russian archer is addressing the Lithuanian
    - Look at the "city Cossack": he is dressed like an Eastern Warrior.
    - Hmmm, something Tatar. Should I let him in?
  24. depressant
    depressant 5 January 2022 16: 39
    +3
    And in continuation of the theme of swans)))
    Because there was a long-standing interest, but there was no reason to engage in its satisfaction.
    Here is what the Russian historian A. Tereshchenko wrote in 1848:
    “So many wild birds arrive in the spring that they cover fields and rivers. In the Saratov and Astrakhan provinces, the entire space for 400 versts is strewn with wild geese, ducks, partridges, quails, swans, cranes, grouse, black grouse, snipe, snipe and other birds ... They devour grain stacks, lead to extreme ruin of the villagers. "
    Abundant times, huh?
    But even then, swans were considered a gourmet dish. The swans were served with toppers (sliced ​​rolls) and zvar - melted butter. And the swan guts were served with a honey broth.
    But in general, a broth is what in the Caucasus cherry plum satsibeli. We made it from cranberries and lingonberries, that is, from sour berries. And even from onions and cabbage. Scandinavians still eat meat with lingonberry jam.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2022 19: 09
      +4
      But even then, swans were considered a gourmet dish.
      "And for me a frog, even smear it with sugar, but I eat it, all the same, I will not!" (WITH)
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 19: 12
        +3
        Here you are a gourmet, however! Not good in the era of soy meat in sausage wassat )))
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2022 19: 26
          +3
          Wait, the era of chlorella is ahead ... Soy meat will become a delicacy.
          1. depressant
            depressant 5 January 2022 19: 53
            +3
            Well, you cheered me up, how glad I am that soybeans instead of meat in sausage! Otherwise, chlorella ... Locusts will become a delicacy.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2022 19: 59
              +3
              By the way, pure protein! If chitin is discarded.
              1. depressant
                depressant 5 January 2022 20: 04
                +2
                Are you kidding me? How can we discard chitin? Under a microscope, or what? Tweezers to rip off the pieces?
                And the fried swan swam before my eyes ...
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 January 2022 20: 08
                  +4
                  Have you, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, ever eaten shrimps? Or crayfish?
                  The same chitin.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 5 January 2022 20: 11
                    +2
                    I even ate crabs. But only meat, and the chitinous membrane, was discarded as inedible.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 5 January 2022 20: 18
                      +3
                      So what? Imagine a hare-sized grasshopper. I think boiled it will be the same. The main thing is not to oversalt!
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 5 January 2022 20: 20
                        +3
                        Here you are, the restless creator of chimeras! I would have gleefully watched you to the archers in a hungry time, how to fry mice over flames!
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 20: 29
                        +4
                        Do not joke, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. Have you forgotten which city I live in?
                        By the way, what is "blockade ration", I experienced myself. I'm not kidding. Not a joke at all.
                      3. depressant
                        depressant 5 January 2022 21: 06
                        +3
                        In the 90s, for me, the blockade ration was an unattainable dream for some time, and this is in Sochi! And here, in the suburbs, now in my village in those days, people were dying of hunger, I heard stories. I'm a stoic, Anton. There is food, I eat. There is no food or there is bad food - I endure it, I am sick, what to do. But there is hot water from the kettle. Highly recommend. By supplying the body with calories, it reduces appetite. Tested in practice. When I'm not in the mood for jokes, I just shut up.
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 21: 15
                        +2
                        Dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I was not even thirty then (winter 98-99) ...
                        Sometimes ...
                      5. depressant
                        depressant 5 January 2022 21: 36
                        +3
                        Yes, I was only a little older than you then. It's all over, Anton. And I really hope that he won't come back. Here is what is now in Kazakhstan ... I watched the videos, I don’t want to! And they are here - well, not Kazakhs, so Tajiks, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz. They have no shores. There are more and more of them. They are constantly outside the window at night. Their music, speeches ... If the government does not plan the disintegration of the country, it must plan its solidarity. Which cannot be created with a quarkcode. What kind of vaccination can there be for a disease called "diaspora"? He will spread the body of the country with his hostile passionarity - this is not what they require to be vaccinated! And it’s not like that. Vaccination can only be an imperious force, but for some reason they instill an imperious hatred for their people. Replacing us with strangers, they will lose both us and the territory. The impression from the videos is terrible! How many of them, strangers, wild energy and consciousness of only their own truth. What a lack of understanding of compromise! What rage, what a willingness to crush. And in contrast - the crowded, walk-like, cautious speeches of our oppositionists, such as to pull their paws away from the fire in time - speeches aimed at nothing, if only it was, speeches about nothing. And the credited people, grimacing, look at it, they have to work. Well, nothing, the Uzbeks will reward - all the sisters have earrings and ears, and we, and the authorities will not escape!
                        Sorry for the confusion and inappropriateness of the reasoning. Just rolls up close. Smoldering Asian stuff - here it is. The light of the fuse-cord is getting closer.
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 21: 53
                        +2
                        And I'm not afraid, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.
                        I live in an interesting time. I have something to fight for and something to die for.
                      7. depressant
                        depressant 5 January 2022 21: 58
                        +3
                        Well, I'm glad for you.
                        As for me, I think about the phenomenon of modern power. And this phenomenon is different from what it was in the days of Marx. And there are no new theorists.
                      8. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 22: 01
                        +2
                        You are not happy, you agree with my "idiocy"
                      9. depressant
                        depressant 5 January 2022 22: 24
                        +3
                        Yes, from my side this is just a courtesy formula. There was a journalist. She took it and self-immolated in front of the building of the Internal Affairs Directorate. At the same time, she informed her relatives and friends about the upcoming event for a long time. Probably discouraged. Not dissuaded. Such is the power of self-programming, read nonsense. Who remembers her besides me? No one. What problem did she solve? None. In addition to my own - self-saturation with pride, they say, I can. And how can she do it now? No way. It just doesn't exist. Do not follow this road, it is a crooked alley leading to a dead end.
                      10. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 22: 31
                        +1
                        Jeanne also, in fact, self-immolated ...
                      11. depressant
                        depressant 5 January 2022 23: 04
                        +2
                        But I managed to do something useful not for myself, for everyone, didn’t it? And she was remembered for this "something", and not for the fact that she burnt herself.
                      12. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 23: 12
                        -1
                        Billions of females before her "did something useful not for themselves." And each individual, more than once.
                      13. depressant
                        depressant 5 January 2022 23: 15
                        0
                        Get off topic. However, oddly enough, we have not left the topic of the article. Sagittarius rebelled after all)))
                      14. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2022 23: 28
                        +1
                        I always get off topic. Have you noticed? I can start with the cost of sensimiglia in Guayaquil, and end with a discussion of the work of modern impressionists.
                      15. depressant
                        depressant 5 January 2022 23: 42
                        +2
                        And now I read about Kazakhstan in the news. There are already 430 comments, I learned a lot of new things for myself. Tokayev called on the CSTO troops to intervene - what a meanness! They raised terrorists, threw hundreds of NGOs, and now the Russian Ivan has to lay his life there, pacifying. So that there was another reason to call my country an occupier and hate Russian Ivan with special pleasure. They say our IL has already arrived. The meanness and impotence of our foreign policy. Mediocrity! I'm as angry as a thousand devils! I have a ban for Kazakhstan. I missed a week. Or even 10 days. So it has been hanging since then. But I knew it would be like that there. All of this will respond badly. And you mean personal. I understand you, but I see something personal in this. Everything will affect the prices in the store and the bills for the communal apartment.
                      16. kalibr
                        6 January 2022 06: 48
                        -2
                        Quote: depressant
                        I understand you, but I see something personal in this.
                        Why worry ahead of time?
                        There is a time for everything, and a time for every thing under the sky:

                        Eccl. 3: 2. a time to be born and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck out what is planted;

                        Eccl. 3: 3. a time to kill and a time to heal; a time to destroy and a time to build;

                        Eccl. 3: 4. a time to cry and a time to laugh; a time to mourn and a time to dance;

                        Eccl. 3: 5. a time to scatter stones, and a time to collect stones; a time to embrace, and a time to avoid embracing;

                        Eccl. 3: 6. time to seek, and time to waste; time to save, and time to quit;

                        Eccl. 3: 7. a time to rend, and a time to stitch; a time to be silent and a time to speak;

                        Eccl. 3: 8. a time to love and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

                        The time for war has NOT come yet!
                      17. depressant
                        depressant 6 January 2022 09: 30
                        0
                        It's time to understand who is fighting against whom ...
                        And the sniper will take pictures of the one who sits on the bank and observes the fragments of the past, carried away by the course of the river of time wassat )))
    2. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 7 January 2022 10: 23
      +1
      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, hi , in continuation of the swan theme - friends ate after marinade and spat, the smell of ammonia was everywhere.
  25. depressant
    depressant 5 January 2022 17: 40
    +2
    So, I will slowly notice.
    In fact, I watch what is happening in Kazakhstan all day on all channels. And there was a bold blue Biden line against Putin's red line.
    I'm sorry, I won't. As a punishment, put me in a corner.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 5 January 2022 17: 53
      +6
      "You are at the door - they are at the window!" (With).
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 18: 22
        +7
        In passing, I will note that the archers participated in the conquest of Siberia.
        In 1584, after Yermak's detachment was despicably cut out and he himself was killed, in the summer a detachment of three hundred archers and Cossacks marched through the Urals to Siberia under the command of the governor Vasily Sukin and Ivan Myasny with the aim of not only conquering Siberia, but also consolidating in this territory - Ermak did not build fortifications designed for many years!
        Bitch and Myasnoy received a clear task: to create an outpost. Having met no resistance, they laid the foundation of a town, which in the future developed in Tyumen. Tobolsk was founded very quickly by the head of Danila Chulkov.
        And then the head Chulkov decided to avenge Yermak and his detachment. He invited Khan Seydyak from Isker to the feast, among whose entourage was the organizer of the murder of the Cossacks - Karach. Those, believing that Chulkov did not know who was responsible for the murder of the Russians, appeared and were arrested and punished in accordance with the military laws of the time. What is the mentality, so is hello!
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2022 19: 10
      +4
      I'm sorry, I won't. As a punishment, put me in a corner.
      There is no forgiveness to you! On the peas! laughing
      1. depressant
        depressant 5 January 2022 19: 14
        +5
        I have long wanted to tell you, Anton, that you are cruel and merciless!
        But if peas, then from canned food - I will endure.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2022 19: 23
          +4
          You are cruel and merciless!
          Ottozh! Especially with the "enemies of the nominees"! laughing
          But if peas, then from canned food - I will endure.
          And if you don't take it out of the cans?
          1. depressant
            depressant 5 January 2022 19: 27
            +4
            You can and extract. Shake out the peas, and artistically cut the jar into corners, bend it outward and put such a knee on the product.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2022 19: 32
              +4
              Sometimes I begin to doubt that the monastic order of St. Dominica - male ...
              1. depressant
                depressant 5 January 2022 19: 57
                +4
                Doubt leads away from the truth, only troubles lead to it.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 January 2022 20: 04
                  +4
                  "Sometimes there are too many moro'ki,
                  To expose the mo'roks ... "
                  Almost Shakespeare. Okay, okay, I agree with Goldoni. laughing
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 5 January 2022 20: 06
                    +3
                    So you are a poet in addition to a culinary specialist who praised healthy protein!
                    Oh heaven ... How diverse are people!
          2. bubalik
            bubalik 5 January 2022 19: 32
            +4
            And if you don't take it out of the cans?
            ,,, good there are no words laughing
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2022 19: 37
              +5
              It is you, Sergei, that you have not seen some of the premises under the jurisdiction of the Federal Penitentiary Service ...
  26. Private SA
    Private SA 5 January 2022 18: 20
    +1
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Considering that the family of the archer should live on this allowance for a week, and the families were not small from four to ten mouths.

    And if the archer is not married? To the gang to Stenka Razin, who had previously taken a couple of fortresses
    to wade with archers on the walls?
    1. depressant
      depressant 5 January 2022 19: 43
      +4
      In fact, the archers really had problems above the roof.
      The authorities regularly failed to fulfill their obligations to maintain them. Monetary allowances were not paid constantly and for many years, uniforms were not issued on time, which aroused discontent with the tsar among the archers and forced them to look for other sources of livelihood. As a result, the participation of the archer in military campaigns became an economic disaster for his family, and for him himself, increased the antagonism of all archers in relation to the authorities and made the rifle regiments an opposition force to the authorities. For the same reason, the archers never became a reliable defense for the state, but as a means of overthrowing one or another tsar, they were best suited - armed, organized and offended by the regime. Therefore, the archers always rebelled and joined peasant uprisings and palace coups.
      Hence the conclusion: the contractor should be paid very well. He should not be in poverty. And there is no money for a decent maintenance of the contract army, so don't start this business.
      1. CHEREDA73
        CHEREDA73 5 January 2022 23: 14
        +1
        Precisely said!
        The Western powers that be of this world understood this. And ours ... well, what are ours: you want "like there", but there is no money or little. Well, and the results are appropriate.
  27. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 5 January 2022 18: 54
    +4
    Actually, any artist could then simply take and redraw these images.
    Yes, you can. But the inscriptions under Palmqvist's drawings need to be read carefully. For "draband", in those days, was a bodyguard, and McBride had a half-head.
    And this, damn it, "Osprey", to which it is customary to appeal!
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 5 January 2022 23: 37
      +4
      and McBride sniffed a half-head.

      O.A. Kurbatov, "Western military customs in the Russian armed forces of the mid-2017th century" (Proceedings of the Eighth International Scientific and Practical Conference "War and Weapons. New Research and Materials", VIMAIViVS, 3, part XNUMX):
      Here, for example, is a description of the parade procession of the military men of the army of Prince A.N. Trubetskoy from Moscow to serve in Bryansk (March 1654): The first to pass by the Sovereign were noblemen and boyar children of hundreds of horsemen, who, having come up to the tsar's place, dismounted and bowed down to Alexei Mikhailovich. Next "the head was Yakov Efimiev with his
      by order, and before him went the corporality to his order, and after him came his entire order. And before hundreds were the centurions, and before the Pentecostals the Pentecostals with protazans, and before the hundreds and before the Pentecost there were banner-bearers for the banners and drummers with drums and beating on the drum. And rank-and-file archers marched in formation: in ranks and in rows of four, - in hats, so that in all neighboring states, soldiers or archers in front of the great sovereigns do not take off their hats on the march, but only the initial people worship. " Accordingly, when passing by the royal place, ordinary archers did not take off their hats and did not stop to bow to the Anointed of God, but only their commanders bowed to the ground. The soldiers of all eight regiments did the same, for whom their officers saluted.


      That is, the protazan was definitely in service with the Pentecostals, and, possibly, the centurions (the phrase can be interpreted in two ways).
      1. kalibr
        6 January 2022 06: 51
        +1
        Hats off to such a deep penetration into the past!
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 6 January 2022 21: 30
          +2
          Hats off to such a deep penetration into the past!

          It's not my fault, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Our interlocutor "Tolstoy" once asked to look for documents, and I came across this site:
          http://www.reenactor.ru/index.php?act=idx

          Reenactors website. Follow the link, there you scroll down to the "Archive" section. A bunch of published literature, including materials from scientific conferences from the Artillery Museum. Scientific materials, not "Yandex-Zen" what! stop
          For example, in two publications I found complete information about the Pskov artillery during the 1581 Batory siege. And our ancient squeaky-cannons themselves are still in the Artillery Museum! yes As they say: write - I don’t want to!
  28. vervolk
    vervolk 5 January 2022 19: 19
    +3
    more content


    ]
  29. nonsense
    nonsense 7 January 2022 14: 47
    0
    hmm :( ... What a game ... I see in the introduction like uniforms are just show-off and no use. Wasn't it easier to make a uniform in the form of a light and short surcoat a la three musketeers? To adopt, so to speak, the experience of the world's leading army ... And if you care so much about your troops, could you have introduced a uniform helmet to them with regiments of different colors (at least leather)? - No more expensive fancy caftans made of expensive British / Dutch dyed fabrics would come out! And all these dyed boots are generally the top of dumbbellism!