Military Review

"Arch" from "Iron Horse": the safest in the world!

68

An Iron Horse rifle shooter fires in winter conditions. Photo by "Iron Horse"


And the work of righteousness will be peace, and the fruit of justice will be peace and security forever.
Exodus 32: 17

Firms and weapon. So - safety. The idea of ​​security is as old as the world. And, of course, it has the most direct relation to weapons. Voennoye Obozreniye has already published articles describing attempts to make weapons safer, and the commentators were not stingy to share their memories of their own experience, when weapons became extremely dangerous, primarily for those who used them. The author of this article also has such experience.

And it so happened that back in 1974 he and his comrades celebrated the New Year. And one of them brought with him ... a .22 caliber Walter PPK pistol that his father had. Can you imagine what it meant to pick up such a pistol in the USSR at that time? We drank, ate delicious food and went to shoot bottles from it at the city cemetery, rightly judging that someone who, and the deceased, would not report us to the police! We shot, rejoiced, and then hurried back to the table. And the one to whom the owner of the pistol entrusted to hold it, did not put it on the safety catch, and ran up the stairs with it in hand, and we are all "boys and girls" after him. And, apparently, through negligence, he pulled the trigger. Flame flashed under his feet, crashed and screamed - vh-u-zzz. Apparently, the bullet ricocheted and only by some miracle did not hit any of us! Oh, how scared we were then!

So the problem of the safety of weapons was, is and, apparently, will still be. There are a lot of wonderful, truly cases. My friend, a hunter, threw his gun behind his back and sat down behind a bush. A shot rang out, and all because the twig fell under the trigger guard and ... pressed it completely by accident. And there are many such examples. Including fatal ones. So it is not surprising that the American company "Iron Horse", which means "Iron Horse", took care of creating another "arch", which would not have a trigger ... at all! Interestingly, the idea of ​​a trigger or thumb button instead of the traditional index finger trigger in stories firearms arose repeatedly. And the first key-release rifles appeared in Europe a very long time ago. Back in 1870, an Italian rifle with such a trigger for the 11mm thumb was released, created by Glisenti-Pieri from Brescia.

"Arch" from "Iron Horse": the safest in the world!
Here is the trigger of a model 1870 rifle. Photo by Iron Horse

Winchester, for example, produced more than 70 key-release rifles designed by Thomas Bennett, based on his patent No. 000 of February 14, 1905. As you can see, it was extremely simple. And it was used mainly for recreational shooting, including shooting ranges. The rifle fired .782716 rounds and was very cheap at just $ 22. By the way, such a low price just turned out to be possible due to the simplification of the trigger mechanism ...


Design by Thomas Bennett. Drawing from US patent dated February 14, 1905 # 782716

And now the very latest interpretation of this idea has appeared: the TOR rifle. By the way, "TOR" is just translated as "thumb-operated rifle." The company emphasizes that, like all other "arches", it is easy to use, but its trigger has been replaced by a button located at the back of the grip, but it is operated with the thumb of both the right and left hand. You don't need to rearrange anything here! It is assumed that such a solution will improve shooting accuracy even in cold weather, and in addition, people with disabilities who do not, for example, have an index finger, will be able to use such a rifle.

Let us recall once again that traditional triggers are located at the bottom of the receiver (receiver), and they are pressed on with the index finger of the “working” hand. The TOR release button on the back of the receiver is activated with your thumb. That is, you hold the rifle by the pistol grip in the same way as the usual "arch", but stick your thumb between the two walls of the lower receiver and already there, inside, press the trigger. This area is protected by the receiver on both sides and from above. You can only access the release key from one direction. When the weapon falls, it cannot touch it for anything, no branches between the trigger and the fence bracket can also get in, in a word - the safety of such a weapon immediately increases significantly! As conceived by the manufacturer, such a system also provides a more uniform and smooth descent, in which the aiming of the weapon does not get lost due to the movement of the index finger in the horizontal plane, which is done in conventional rifles. There are now three models of Iron Horse rifles ranging from $ 850 to $ 2300, and a simple trigger box will cost $ 295.


It looks like a very ordinary AR-15 rifle. However, take a closer look: something is clearly missing in it! And what exactly? Well, of course, the trigger!

Iron Horse Firearms, LLC has now undergone a rebranding so that all of its firearms are now known as Blackwater Worldwide.

With a new design like the TOR, not all parts will be 100% compatible with other AR-15 rifles. It is clear that the TOR uses a new fuse and pistol grip, and changes have also been made to the trigger. However, the rest of the lower receiver, including the buffer tube assembly, has not undergone any changes. That is, the new rifle is compatible with any military-grade cartridges and magazines.

By keeping the trigger in line with the bore, Iron Horse Firearms suggests that the TOR can reduce the rifle's swing to the left or right, which is a particular problem with conventional trigger rifles.


And this is how the new trigger affects the accuracy of the new rifle. Of course, this is a promotional photo. But ... "there is no smoke without fire." And then - unfair advertising in the USA is a dangerous thing! Photo by "Iron Horse"

Another factor that can improve thumb-activated descent is the decrease in shooting accuracy associated with low temperatures affecting the dexterity of the shooter's fingers. If you've ever shot in cold weather, you know that joints and fingers can get stiff. Pressing a key with your thumb can counteract this unpleasant circumstance. There are people with arthritis who, nevertheless, still want to shoot, so this rifle will allow them to participate in shooting sports on an equal basis with others. And besides, it will also provide them with the opportunity to use the rifle for self-defense if they ever meet with a cruel criminal.

By the way, it is interesting how the idea of ​​this design was born. Its origins are explained by company owner and founder Ryan McDonald, a veteran of the United States Marine Corps:

“On a cloudy August day, I sat on the LAV hull and thought about the various weapon platforms while listening to what the other Marines had to say. I gave them my idea for the AR15 modification. This led to a conversation with my mates about how to improve it and why no one has done it so far. It was then that I decided that I would definitely try to implement my idea. And now, after almost two years, many ugly handcrafted prototypes, countless days at work, and many failures, I am happy to announce that TOR is finally available. "


Here it is: the black TOR rifle. Photo by "Iron Horse"


And this is her, too, but with a different butt. Photo by "Iron Horse"

Today the TOR is a 5.56x45 mm NATO semi-automatic rifle with a 16 '' (406 mm) barrel. Its trigger box (the Americans call this part the lower receiver, respectively, the receiver is the upper receiver) is made of 7075 TOR aluminum with a black anodized coating of the Aero Precision AR15 Gen 2 receiver and the Aero Precision ATLAS S-ONE forend. The TOR 5.56mm rifle is priced at $ 1350.


There she hid this release key - there! Photo by "Iron Horse"


And here is the handle together with the lower receiver for this rifle. Photo by "Iron Horse"

It is difficult to say how popular this system will be. Although developments like TOR appear today one after another. For example, the Italian company Tecnostudio Engineering is working on a pistol based on the same concept. Her latest creation is an innovative polymer semi-automatic pistol with ... no trigger! In fact, there is a trigger, only it is controlled by the thumb, not the index finger, like all competitors.


An innovative pistol from Tecnostudio Engineering. Photo by Tecnostudio Engineering

First of all, the thumb trigger system has yet to prove its effectiveness in the field, and even if it is effective, it may simply be inconvenient for the military for some completely random reason. Nevertheless, the innovation and boldness of this idea cannot be denied!
Author:
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 3 January 2022 05: 33
    +7
    If the owner of the weapon wants to shoot himself, he will shoot himself anyway ... willingly or not ... I've seen enough videos of such mountain shooters ... the main thing is that they don't hurt other people.
    Well, and an innovative trigger ... however ... people will have to wean off the index finger to use ... reflexes at the subconscious level are poorly treated in an extreme situation.
    But the topic is really new ... not bad Vyacheslav ... The New Year has begun ... thank you for the article.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 January 2022 06: 52
      +7
      He picked up a pneumatic pistol. He unscrewed the trigger guard with a hook. So and so he adapted. It is not convenient to shoot with two hands, it is impossible to shoot with one.
      Attempts inspired, read somewhere that the Europeans "evaporated" to the Chinese before the Opium Wars a similar "wunderfruit" with an upper trigger. A very unfortunate decision.
      Progress does not stand still, but how reliable such innovations are is still a question.
      1. Sharky
        Sharky 3 January 2022 23: 39
        +3
        As a youngster, we made air from bicycle pumps in the yard. It was a whole art. Our boy was older, he taught us how to make them (there really was one-armed, since he was already collecting some home-made grenades and tore off his brush when he was testing it on the balcony). He showed all the tricks, so to speak. Well, we, of course, are all carried away by this topic. We cut out the bed for the pump cylinder, looked for the correct harnesses. The piston rod from the club, the piston itself is combined: leather and felt with layers of felt boots. You go - you develop for a week or two. If it spattered on the roof of a 12-storey building, it was believed that sufficient power had been achieved. So, the piston descent was according to a similar scheme, a Soviet wooden clothespin was attached to the top of the stock near the handle. Its upper spring-loaded part remained free-moving. Pressing her thumb on the clothespin, she lifted the L-shaped piston rod from the ledge and, under the action of the tourniquet, rushed forward, firing a shot. That was the first time I got acquainted with this type of descent. Of course, then there was no question of safety at all, it was just that it was technically convenient and easier to organize the structure.
        How we were all left with our eyes and not crippled - I am still amazed. After all, everyone had air at that time. what
    2. Old electrician
      Old electrician 3 January 2022 12: 39
      +10
      Our airfield was defended by a security company. 100% of the personnel are sons of the mountains from the Caucasus. The attitude towards weapons is complete. I would say an airplane, but the censorship will not let it through. I don’t know how they fought or are fighting there in the Caucasus, but in our 300 m firing range, none of them hit the target with a carbine. Our girls - mechanics compared to them were snipers.
      Since their officers went on guard three days later, we periodically replaced them. It was all the more pleasure to walk like a boss with those whom you see for the first time in your life at a divorce. This is a saying.
      The posts at the airfield parking lots were transported by a car on duty. Change of dress in the back, chief in the cockpit. The shift is driving in the car and having fun. They take a carnation and throw it into the trunk. By releasing the click, the firing pin hits the carnation and it flies out of the barrel into the one sitting opposite it. That's how they shoot all the way. The nachkar spent his shift at the next parking lot and went into the cockpit. The free son of the mountains is on duty, the clip is in the store. It snapped out of the car with a carnation. Hourly twitches the bolt and, for reliability, lays a carnation in the barrel (!!!), and then aiming shots at his comrade in the car.
      To this day it amazes me that why the barrel did not burst. The bullet pierced the victim's cheek and jaw. The wound is serious, but in principle, not fatal. But the carnation inflicted a terrible laceration in the area of ​​the collarbone and tore an artery. As we were later explained, not every physician will be able to squeeze and stop such bleeding in the field.
      The poor fellow was taken alive to the medical unit. Night. There was only a paramedic on duty, who could not do anything, and when the doctor arrived, the wounded died of blood loss.
      I changed this guard the next day. All mountain woodpeckers were instructed until they lost consciousness by the chiefs of all authorities and by me, inclusive. I put up a post, go into the cockpit. I did not have time to sit down I hear my whole body clicks shutters. Well, how can you not swear after that?
  2. Andrey Moskvin
    Andrey Moskvin 3 January 2022 05: 45
    +7
    Everything would be fine, but the holding of the weapon will be greatly weakened, without a thumb grip. And with sudden movements, yes with gloves, yes "in the winter." Only snipers.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 January 2022 07: 38
      +8
      Humanity did not come to the trigger immediately.


      The trigger system of the wicks was squeaky and arquebus.
      1. Andrey Moskvin
        Andrey Moskvin 3 January 2022 07: 59
        +2
        The crossbow trigger is also one of these predecessors. hi
  3. andrewkor
    andrewkor 3 January 2022 05: 45
    +6
    As one commentator in the United States noticed yesterday, 12000 firms and firms that manufacture and develop weapons (take his word for it).
    If you issue one article per day for each, it will be ... it will be ... a huge figure. Dear Author is on the right path!
    But the material, apart from jokes, is very interesting ++++ !!
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 3 January 2022 11: 10
      +9
      I don’t have to take my word for it. This figure is from "CAP analysis of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives," Firearms Commerce in the United States Annual Statistical Update. "
      1. andrewkor
        andrewkor 3 January 2022 11: 52
        +3
        I apologize for my American English, which I do not know at all. And you would have given a reference yesterday, and I would not have worn out today. No offense, okay?
    2. 28st region
      28st region 3 January 2022 13: 08
      +6
      This figure does not mean that all these firms are developing small arms.
      This figure includes firms that modify weapons, make all sorts of bells and whistles on them, often staff in them 3 - 5 people, a repair shop at the store. At the factory, they bought trunks, for another component for the trigger, they assembled the bolt in their basement. There is a TV channel Arms, as they showed several cycles about such firms.
      In principle, any American can do this. Order a bunch of parts and assemble a firearm. It all depends on the state. In Arizona, New Mexico, Texas ... in general, those that border on Mexico have simplified weapons legislation to the limit. There, according to the driver's license, buy a trunk without problems without any checks. And at one time as much as you can carry. And resell it also for rights. This is used, although you can only sell to a resident of the state, but who will check. What's more, the crime rate is low there.
  4. Maki Avellevich
    Maki Avellevich 3 January 2022 07: 32
    +4
    for shooting from an ambush or snipers it may be an advantage, but for a simple infantryman such a trigger will be a burden.

    an infantryman often shoots when his tongue is on his shoulder and his breath is stunted. it would be better for him to grab a weapon, but here you have to hold your thumb from behind.

    for the initiative, of course, praise, but I personally would refuse.
    1. kalibr
      3 January 2022 07: 59
      +3
      First of all, the thumb trigger system has yet to prove its effectiveness in the field, and even if it is effective, it may simply be inconvenient for the military for some completely random reason. Nevertheless, the innovation and boldness of this idea cannot be denied!
      Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
      1. 28st region
        28st region 3 January 2022 12: 52
        +4
        Maybe like a civilian weapon, such a trigger looks normal, but for a combat one ... hit the thumb and try to shoot, with the classic version, everything can go into action, both the index, middle and nameless, and you can even press the trigger with your little finger.
        1. Cat Alexandrovich
          Cat Alexandrovich 3 January 2022 15: 40
          +1
          Why pull the trigger?
          1. Pushkowed
            Pushkowed 4 January 2022 10: 04
            0
            Why pull the trigger?
            Probably to cock him ... Or put him on the safety platoon. Then my imagination fails. But really, it is better to do these manipulations with the thumb.
      2. Real Pilot
        Real Pilot 3 January 2022 13: 33
        +1
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the article. This is an interesting branch of USM development.

        But there is another place where such a system can come in handy - this is in automatic platforms, where a fighter's assault rifle is placed in a turret. There are such: a tripod with a control system, and the entire shooting unit is added in the form of a standard rifle or pistol. Prototypes mostly, but personally saw a review of this.
        For the turret, this model is better suited than the standard trigger, due to the closed structure and more accurate triggering.

        Such a watchman will not sleep, save the lives of the soldiers and "warn" about the enemy entering the sector.
  5. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 3 January 2022 08: 02
    +4
    Here you live in the 21st century and you are repeatedly convinced that the "new" is a well-forgotten "old"! The imagination of the current sapiens has dried up! Key ... button ... Duc, escho in the 16th century the triggers were not with a trigger, but with a "button"! The so-called button locks! The button was "activated" by the thumb of the right hand! (or the middle finger of your left hand ... depending on the layout of the castle ...) So there ... "Tahiti, Tahiti, when they are well fed here too!"
    1. kalibr
      3 January 2022 10: 17
      +2
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      "new" is a well-forgotten "old"!

      Exactly, exactly!
    2. haron
      haron 8 February 2022 10: 09
      0
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      The button was actuated with the thumb of the right hand!

      The idea is so-so ... before and now. First of all, due to the fact that the innervation, sensitivity and accuracy of the movements of the index finger are much higher than the first (big). The big one serves only as a support for the index finger.
      And in the indicated screenshot of the shooting, the "traditional pile" is assembled on an incomprehensible mechanism, they are also different.
      In general, the problem here is at the root of novelty.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 10 February 2022 14: 29
        0
        Well ... over time, everything "flows and changes"! We do not know thoroughly the physiological, mental, nervous state of people of that time! In those days, there could be other values ​​​​of the magnetic field, the electrical intensity of the space around the Earth, and hence the neurolinguistic abilities of people of that time! The fact that the military later switched to the trigger. Doesn't mean they didn't know about it before! Maybe people's neurolinguistic abilities have just changed?
  6. English tarantas
    English tarantas 3 January 2022 09: 36
    +3
    I just now imagined how the left hand flies from the forearm and 4kg starts to fall, but there is nothing to hold them with. I already winced as I imagined a dislocation of the phalanges of the thumb. no, thanks
    1. kalibr
      3 January 2022 10: 21
      +2
      Alexander! Can't you hold 4 kg with one right hand? I hold 5 kg without much difficulty ... Although ... not a feather, and not for long, yes.
      1. English tarantas
        English tarantas 3 January 2022 11: 47
        +4
        This is if you hold it normally and your hand is not tired. I just figure out how to run all day with such a thing, and then jump off, for example, from an armored personnel carrier, when the rifle is carried down also by inertia and it will be necessary to keep it cleanly on four fingers. All the same, keep things different with your thumb or extreme phalanx. Well I also hold, but clasping all my fingers.
        And in principle, it is inconvenient to hold this rifle, you cannot squeeze your hand on the handle, it will be either inconvenient, or you can press the trigger. On the other hand, you can pump up your forearms.
        1. kalibr
          3 January 2022 12: 37
          +1
          I agree with you. For mass use in the army, this must be checked and verified.
  7. depressant
    depressant 3 January 2022 09: 46
    +9
    Good afternoon dear friends!
    The fact is that translating the descent onto the thumb means going against the structure of the human brain, a device that has been forming for millions of years. Do you think what is the largest part of the brain that controls this or that human organ? The one who is responsible for the actions of the working hand! In this case, the action of each finger is controlled by its own area. For millions of years, the pointing finger has been the main thing. Intuitively, the gunsmiths adapted a weapon piece for it - a trigger. Of course, you can "reflash" the brain under the thumb. Will it work out massively?
    By the way, I've seen a picture of how our brain "sees" us. It turned out that we are frail freaks with a huge right hand wassat ))) Well, or left, if the person is left-handed.
    1. kalibr
      3 January 2022 10: 14
      +4
      Lyudmila Nikolaevna! Who cares about this? If people have an increased craving for everything new, but there are "people of the last minute." So the first will buy EVERYTHING, just to become the first !!! And if only the product had a real USP. I’m connected a little with marketing, and my daughter sells handbags all over Russia, from Kaliningrad to Chukotka, and what kind of "chuchundras" we have not come across. Also with rifles. That bread "Borodino new with marjoram and sesame", that a rifle with a key - there is no fundamental difference. Even if 10000 people buy it in the United States, it will already give the company a high profit. "I want to try!" - this is the motto of a very wide audience of consumers in ANY AREA of SALE AND SALE. If I were a gunsmith, I would produce "arches" for ... Canada and Alaska with handles and a stock made of pressed birch bark - "Warm in any frost!" And they would definitely be bought!
      1. depressant
        depressant 3 January 2022 11: 26
        +3
        And it's not good to confuse the middle name wassat )))
        In response to the remark, it would be necessary to give yourself a short time to cope with the profile ...))) However, the question is unimportant, there are many of us, and you are one, you cannot remember all of them. One lady who is periodically present here called me "Diprisant", and this despite the fact that she positions herself as a junior medical staff, who, on duty, is supposed to know what "depression" in patients is. They say that Veronika Skvortsova, together with Golikova, laid off 460 nurses. Apparently, the wrong ones were cut. Well, that's me, in the order of mockery. To cheer yourself up, because the mood is worse than ever.
        And so you are right. Of course, it is useful to know what directions in the development of weapons technology specialists are developing - they say, on what else can you squeeze out a penny, well, there, or an extra cent. People have long been taught to rush to new things. And if you are not like everyone else, but a novelty, then there is a chance that in the eyes of a certain number of people around you you will turn out to be better than others. Even if, say, this new one is made of combustible plastic. I beg your pardon for the reminiscence.
        1. kalibr
          3 January 2022 12: 39
          +3
          Sorry to beguiled Patronymic. I always did not remember the full names of everyone with whom I dealt.
      2. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 3 January 2022 14: 57
        +1
        "Warm in any frost!" And they would definitely be bought!
        You late sad
        https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/11/28/sauer-ergo-heat-worlds-first-rifle-stock-heated-grip/
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 3 January 2022 11: 16
      +8
      The fact is that translating the descent onto the thumb means going against the structure of the human brain, a device that has been forming for millions of years.

      The fact is that the Thumb Operated Rifle concept was not designed to improve safety, but for people who have lost fingers that can be used to pull the traditional trigger.
      1. depressant
        depressant 3 January 2022 11: 51
        +4
        Well, that's understandable, Viktor Nikolaevich. Among locksmiths and turners there are such. With the development of modern technology, there will be fewer and fewer people who have lost their fingers in such jobs. And in connection with the laws restricting the right to personal weapons as self-defense, a person with five fingers will soon have nothing to catch. With your index finger or your thumb.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 January 2022 14: 04
          +4
          Quote: depressant
          Well, that's understandable, Viktor Nikolaevich. Among locksmiths and turners there are such. With the development of modern technology, there will be fewer and fewer people who have lost their fingers in such jobs. And in connection with the laws restricting the right to personal weapons as self-defense, a person with five fingers will soon have nothing to catch. With your index finger or your thumb.

          Couldn't go by!
          Lyudmila Yakovlevna, given the "progress", the availability of the "traumatic" tool and the lack of competencies among users, the risk is only growing. So, if a century ago a limb could lose every 1000, today every tenth! Who uses circulars, grinders, etc. Gadgetry.
          Yesterday a wet cat had no chance of being in the microwave, but today they write about it in the instructions.
          Regarding the index finger, the search was pitifully unintuitive and lasted about a century. It is universal, I do not think. Already today, an electric trigger is used instead of a trigger. There are various schnellers, etc. Tomorrow the signal will be an effort of thought, a blink of an eye, or a chip built into a limb.
          1. depressant
            depressant 3 January 2022 14: 49
            +2
            Ah, that's how it means ... Now I will look closely at the hands of men, who have how many fingers, and which of them are missing wassat )))
            Based on your opinion, Vladislav, I believe, will soon become an actual weapon for those who do not have a ring finger, or, say, a little finger. The main thing is to have brains in place. As for the control of weapons with the power of thought, I believe this is a matter of the future. But the main thing here is that because of the grinder, not all fingers are lost, but at least one is present intact. Do you need to hold the weapon somehow?
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 3 January 2022 16: 46
              +3
              "I know this lathe like my three fingers!"
              1. depressant
                depressant 3 January 2022 17: 25
                +3
                Aha wassat )))
                It's amazing how companies have not yet appeared, even if not with us, because we do not have such opportunities, well, at least abroad - like "Firearm under any number of fingers of your working hand! Any whim for your money!"
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 3 January 2022 17: 45
                  +2
                  And in the absence of hands, how to shoot?
                  "Chastity Belt" from the movie "From Dusk Till Dawn"? drinks
            2. Kerensky
              Kerensky 5 January 2022 08: 19
              +1
              well, or, say, the little finger. The main thing is to have brains in place.

              Lyudmila Yakovlevna. Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye! Just the little finger gets in the way when shooting, and it has to be "turned off" by the brain. He should just "lie down and not interfere".
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 3 January 2022 17: 53
            +3
            In pursuit of earnings (piecework), people lost their hands. Working on machines for "cutting" shoe insoles for speed and increasing the number of produced insoles, the safety system was "removed" from the chain. And then, out of fatigue, they forgot to remove their hands from the machine. And the foot pressed the actuation pedal of the unit and the insoles were cut out from the pack of felt or leather together with the brushes of the "greedy hurry" of the worker!
            According to the rules - lay a pack of raw materials and press the blocking buttons with both hands. Then step on the machine start pedal with your foot.
            For speed and productivity growth, the buttons blocking the operation of the unit were "thrown out" from the circuit ...
      2. Pushkowed
        Pushkowed 4 January 2022 11: 05
        +1
        for people who have lost fingers, which can be used to pull the traditional trigger.
        This has already happened. The Palm Pistol is called:
        Positioned as "finger-friendly". The funny thing is that the author originally wanted to certify it as a "medical device" and sell it in pharmacies on a prescription instead of a weapon license. But it didn't work - I had to admit that it was still a firearm ...

        But they made a carbine like this:
    3. CHEREDA73
      CHEREDA73 3 January 2022 18: 54
      +3
      Hello, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.
      Maybe a little off topic.
      In aviation, the thumb is widely used as an active initiating element. On the control stick or on the horns of the steering column, a lot of things have been done just for the thumb, although it could have been done under the index finger. Nobody complains.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 January 2022 20: 58
        +2
        Quote: CHEREDA73
        Hello, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.
        Maybe a little off topic.
        In aviation, the thumb is widely used as an active initiating element. On the control stick or on the horns of the steering column, a lot of things have been done just for the thumb, although it could have been done under the index finger. Nobody complains.

        Classic joystick.
        The problem with firearms is the presence of a number of factors, both physical and physiological. Plus to them psychological.
        Physics is associated with recoil when fired, physiology - the fight against this phenomenon. Plus the skills associated with keeping the rear sight in the front sight, or rather the reduction of barrel vibrations. Hence, the shooting range is right when you exhale. The human body also gradually "learns" and at the reflex level begins to compensate for the return. To avoid this effect, the trigger is taught to pull slowly, not to wait for the shot.
        Further too lazy to write, but the ability to pull the trigger with the second phalanx of the index finger is the least of the troubles.
        1. CHEREDA73
          CHEREDA73 3 January 2022 21: 09
          +1
          I can't say anything here. I shot from a machine gun twice in my life, from a pistol - never ...
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 January 2022 21: 42
            +2
            Quote: CHEREDA73
            I can't say anything here. I shot from a machine gun twice in my life, from a pistol - never ...

            To each his own.
            I personally just last month shot 74 rounds from the PM-60 from the AKS-16u. ...
            Today is all day in the village, so after reading the article Vyacheslava experimented with all the heart. First, with IZhik (I still wanted to put it in a tree) I took off the trigger and the bracket. Fitted under the button above the handle. Well, it's not convenient at all. Then he disassembled the RPSh (pneumatic revolver). Removed the hook and trigger (bracket is not removable). I adapted a key instead of a trigger (a button made of wood). Then he brought the descent to make it soft. I tried to shoot. One-handed grip is weak. Even the pneumatic leads to the top to the right. With two hands in the front stand, something turns out, but the grip dug up is weak.
            The best result was obtained on an Izhik with an English straight butt. But it feels like I didn't want to spoil the butt. And there is no plastic like it.
            Well, somewhere like that.
  8. vl903
    vl903 3 January 2022 11: 35
    +1
    it is strange why on a sniper or simply a Marksman, especially a civilian hunting weapon, they do not put two trigger systems - in a calm environment you press with your thumb, in other cases with your index finger? Yes, it is more difficult, but the accuracy is higher!
    1. kalibr
      3 January 2022 12: 40
      +3
      Quote: vl903
      it is strange why on a sniper or simply a Marksman, especially a civilian hunting weapon, they do not put two trigger systems - in a calm environment you press with your thumb, in other cases with your index finger? Yes, it is more difficult, but the accuracy is higher!

      What a GREAT OFFER !!!
      1. Aag
        Aag 3 January 2022 20: 02
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: vl903
        it is strange why on a sniper or simply a Marksman, especially a civilian hunting weapon, they do not put two trigger systems - in a calm environment you press with your thumb, in other cases with your index finger? Yes, it is more difficult, but the accuracy is higher!

        What a GREAT OFFER !!!

        How magically I came across your article!
        Sorry, maybe not quite the topic ... But, amid the New Year's bustle, and idleness, thoughts of upgrading their spear guns come to mind. And, in this regard, I "went very well," - thank you!
        The fact is that in a number of spearfishing rifle schemes, it is required to change the thrust vector by 180 degrees, or the axis of application of forces on the trigger, and on the trigger ... Okay, these are the details ... More importantly, - Yes , - I can not disagree with a number of commentators that the thumb is important for holding a weapon! Short-barreled, - especially! crimp, tension, is exactly the finger on the trigger! Big "lives" longer))) ...
        Thanks! I went to "draw"!))) hi
        1. kalibr
          3 January 2022 21: 28
          +2
          You come to us, read, we have many interesting articles by different authors.
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 January 2022 21: 53
          +1
          Quote: AAG
          With all this, the first thing that freezes, or just blunts from crimping, tension, is the finger on the trigger! Big "lives" longer))) ...
          Thanks! I went to "draw"!))) hi

          On land - keeping your finger on the "trigger tern" is the height of unprofessionalism. At least disqualification in all types of practical shooting and "fail" when passing tests.
          The problem is not holding the tool with your thumb, but in the grip. In the frontal stance, both thumbs are pulled towards the target - this is the fixation of the tool and the maximum "twitching" reflex is excluded. So both thumbs are involved.
          1. vl903
            vl903 3 January 2022 23: 08
            +1
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Quote: AAG
            With all this, the first thing that freezes, or just blunts from crimping, tension, is the finger on the trigger! Big "lives" longer))) ...
            Thanks! I went to "draw"!))) hi

            On land - keeping your finger on the "trigger tern" is the height of unprofessionalism. At least disqualification in all types of practical shooting and "fail" when passing tests.
            The problem is not holding the tool with your thumb, but in the grip. In the frontal stance, both thumbs are pulled towards the target - this is the fixation of the tool and the maximum "twitching" reflex is excluded. So both thumbs are involved.

            the underwater gun is loaded only after leaving the water and is discharged before leaving the water. the flight of a free boom is rarely more than 10 meters. moreover, in 99% of cases it is limited by the length of the safety line, which is rarely more than 5 meters. well, directing upward or into a not clearly visible target is prohibited. Therefore, it is easier with a hook there, but there the gun itself is more dangerous - the arrow may break off the stopper itself. Therefore, it is usually immediately unloaded in the water as soon as the hunt is finished.
            1. Aag
              Aag 4 January 2022 06: 51
              +2
              "... the flight of a free boom is rarely more than 10 meters. In 99% of cases, it is limited by the length of the safety line, which is rarely more than 5 meters ..."
              A harpoon ("arrow") weighing 350-450 grams in air from a normal pneumatic, hydropneumatic flies much further than 10 meters. 25-40 meters.
              And the harpoon-lin is not "safety". In the best case, it will cut off - no shock absorber will save; at worst, it will return ...
          2. Aag
            Aag 4 January 2022 07: 12
            +2
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Quote: AAG
            With all this, the first thing that freezes, or just blunts from crimping, tension, is the finger on the trigger! Big "lives" longer))) ...
            Thanks! I went to "draw"!))) hi

            On land - keeping your finger on the "trigger tern" is the height of unprofessionalism. At least disqualification in all types of practical shooting and "fail" when passing tests.
            The problem is not holding the tool with your thumb, but in the grip. In the frontal stance, both thumbs are pulled towards the target - this is the fixation of the tool and the maximum "twitching" reflex is excluded. So both thumbs are involved.

            I agree, - on the trigger (safety) bracket - more correct))).
            But software (spearfishing) has a lot of its own nuances. The overwhelming majority of underwater gun fuses do not guarantee the exclusion of an accidental shot (they block, and not always reliably, only the trigger). Many authors simply do not put fuses on their guns so as not to instill in the user false hope. Noticed - the fuse on the software is triggered, performs its function only then, when they see a trophy copy, they forget to turn it off!))).
            Therefore, the main safety requirement is to keep the gun in the "right" direction, position ... hi
        3. vl903
          vl903 3 January 2022 22: 57
          +2
          you can put the key on the side of the handle, in the manner of aviation triggers
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 January 2022 16: 43
      +3
      Quote: vl903
      it is strange why on a sniper or simply a Marksman, especially a civilian hunting weapon, they do not put two trigger systems - in a calm environment you press with your thumb, in other cases with your index finger? Yes, it is more difficult, but the accuracy is higher!

      Where did you get the idea that with the release button under the thumb "accuracy is higher"?
      For biathletes and sports shooters, schnellers did not even take root.
      1. vl903
        vl903 3 January 2022 17: 33
        +1
        purely from the text of the article. if I understood correctly, then the thumb pulls only in the vertical plane, and the index finger also pulls along the horizon. how much this is so I do not know.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 January 2022 19: 25
          +3
          Quote: vl903
          purely from the text of the article. if I understood correctly, then the thumb pulls only in the vertical plane, and the index finger also pulls along the horizon. how much this is so I do not know.

          Such a grip is possible only with an English stock or a classic rifle stock with a weakly expressed grip. In other cases, it is corny not convenient.
          1. vl903
            vl903 3 January 2022 22: 54
            +1
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Quote: vl903
            purely from the text of the article. if I understood correctly, then the thumb pulls only in the vertical plane, and the index finger also pulls along the horizon. how much this is so I do not know.

            Such a grip is possible only with an English stock or a classic rifle stock with a weakly expressed grip. In other cases, it is corny not convenient.

            why? the button can be placed a little to the side, from the pistol grip, in the manner of an aviation trigger.
            the question is whether this will really give any advantages that will justify the complication of the design?
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 January 2022 07: 36
              +1
              I experimented on the PM (pneumatic) by adapting the store reset button (PMG handle) - the shutter interferes above. The pistol goes up to the left. The grip is not comfortable.
              1. vl903
                vl903 4 January 2022 09: 08
                0
                vabsche, in our time, if you eliminate the effect of twitching the usm on high-precision long-range weapons, then probably you need to put an electric trigger with a touch button and an electric igniter in the cartridge?
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 January 2022 11: 52
                  +1
                  See my comments above.
  9. depressant
    depressant 3 January 2022 12: 28
    +2
    They say that we must exclude accidental murders, so the key will help us!
    At one time I lived in an area where the relationship was sorted out like this: "Let's go hunting!" There was no one to hunt for, if you count the animals, they had been knocked out long ago, and even the old-timers did not remember what was once in the surrounding forests, but everyone had several guns. In general, we went into the forest, and the next day the news came from the town: "Someone was accidentally shot while hunting." Probably it happens. But not with the same frequency!
    "Accidental" murder while hunting has many historical precedents. For example, in the "ill-fated" forest of New Forest "accidentally" died the third son of William the Conqueror, who was called William II Rufus and at the time of his death occupied the English throne. Knight Walter Tyrrel, aiming at the deer, hit the king, and for some reason twice. And the brother of the murdered Henry I turned around and, together with all the courtiers, left the forest, not bothering to start looking for the august relative who had disappeared somewhere.
    Well, about the same scenario, hunt murders happened in my time. As I understand it now, gangster showdown. Apparently, according to those laws, hunting is a mitigating circumstance - they say, the branches interfered. And no matter what system of firing you enter - even with your index finger, even with your thumb - the situation will not change until the law combines randomness with intention in favor of the latter.
    1. oa_dam
      oa_dam 3 January 2022 12: 45
      +1
      Quote: depressant
      Well, about the same scenario, hunt murders happened in my time. As I understand it now, gangster showdown. Apparently, according to those laws, hunting is a mitigating circumstance - they say, the branches interfered.


      Part 1 of Article 109 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - causing death by negligence. If a person has not previously been convicted, has paid material compensation, then the court will most likely sentence to a suspended sentence. If a person has an outstanding criminal record, there is no money for compensation or does not want to pay, then he will most likely receive a real sentence for a murder on a hunt.
      It is hard for me to believe that in those parts there were many who wanted to fly in for big money and hang such an article on themselves.
  10. KSVK
    KSVK 3 January 2022 12: 48
    +2
    Nevertheless, the innovation and boldness of this idea cannot be denied!

    Undoubtedly! And here's how it will work in reality ...
    And this invention is IMHO not about safety. But we must look at the constructive. And this advertising diagram does not say anything either. And about the responsibility for advertising, three times "ha". laughing What is the trigger pull on the test pieces? And is the effort on this PLASTIC "miracle key" adjustable? But about people without fingers, it may well work. The trend is modern. And about the accuracy of shooting, the most accurate shots are obtained "free rollback". This is when the shooter acts on the weapon ONLY by touching the trigger with his finger, and here the finger is inside the groove. Will the monotony work? Something I doubt it. Real independent tests would ...
    But the article is really interesting. The author is a definite plus. good
  11. beeper
    beeper 3 January 2022 12: 52
    +4
    I am lazy now to rummage through my books, but (it seems from Markevich) I read about the Russian Cossack carbine (back in the mid-1800s, I don’t remember the name of the designer now request ) with a trigger under the thumb, located on top of the neck of the butt-quite functional, for shooting at a gallop and from any hand (rational minimalism-stock without weakening cutouts for a traditional trigger with a trigger guard, without unnecessary protruding parts clinging when moving through thickets of bushes , and without the danger of injuring the "shooting finger" with the trigger guard in case of unexpected "somersaults" of the rider and the horse!) winked
  12. Disorder
    Disorder 4 January 2022 02: 05
    0
    Complete nonsense. They hang noodles on their ears so that their weapons are bought as exotic.
    The key does not have any advantages when observing safety precautions. But the weakening of the pistol grip fastening is obvious.
  13. MauZerR
    MauZerR 4 January 2022 09: 00
    +1
    In civilian use somewhere in California (they have the most bad legislation regarding everything that looks like an assault rifle) will come in.
    1. Pushkowed
      Pushkowed 4 January 2022 10: 11
      +1
      Unlikely. They don't have pistol grips, but this rifle does have one. Even Californians did not think of a ban on triggers. Only ts-s-s-s! No need to tell them)))
  14. Pushkowed
    Pushkowed 4 January 2022 10: 52
    +1
    Here we go...

    it is operated with the thumb of both the right and left hand. You don't need to rearrange anything here!
    Traditional triggers do not need to be rearranged either. They can be pressed with either hand.

    such a rifle can be used by people with disabilities who, for example, do not have an index finger.
    The traditional trigger can also be pulled with the middle finger. It seems that such shooting techniques even existed. Here is what Potapov writes:


    a pistol that ... has no trigger! In fact, there is a trigger, only it is controlled by the thumb, not the index finger, like all competitors
    Aerosol pistol "Blow". Guess where the descent is (and in general, in which direction it shoots))))


    the safest in the world!
    On traditional mechanisms, it is somehow not customary to put your finger on the trigger if you are not going to shoot. This TB rule is written in blood. Typically, the index finger is resting on the trigger guard (if present) or pulled along the frame above the trigger. Incl. and for clarity (so others can see that this shooter is in compliance).

    And here ... What should the thumb rest on? Constantly keep it superimposed on the trigger or what? And where is the safety here?

    Maybe keep it on the side of the handle, and apply it just before shooting? This is slower than moving the index from the trigger guard to the traditional trigger (especially when fractions of a second decide everything). In addition, at the same time it is necessary to change the grip of the handle, switching from the usual to the so-called. "side grip" (only with the thumb in the notch, not on the side of the palm).
    This grip is not convenient for everyone. In addition, when switching grips, the hold of the weapon is weakened.

    In any case, the absence of a finger on the trigger on such a design is not obvious.

    Wangyu: The project won't take off.