Military Review

Solving problems with WS-15 engines for J-20 fighters by the end of 2021 turned out to be an impossible task for Chinese specialists

53

The Chinese press at the end of the year acknowledged a significant delay in delivery of the fifth generation J-20 fighters with new WS-15 engines to the troops. Recall that according to the initial plans, aircraft with such Chinese-made engines were supposed to appear in the PLA Air Force in the first half of 2021, then due to the identified technological problems, the delivery was postponed to the 4th quarter of the year. However, a few days ago, a piece appeared in the public account of Chengfei (refers to the Chengdu Aircraft Industry), which speaks of "challenging R&D tasks in the 4th quarter of the year, about the difficult situation with the research, production and supply of components for the J-20."


On this basis, it was concluded that aviation the WS-15 engines were never brought to a technologically acceptable option.

It should be recalled that Chinese engineers and scientists are trying to solve the problems with the loss of engine thrust when it reaches operating temperatures. One of the solutions to this problem was associated with the use of a special fullerene film. However, this option also did not work, since the film led to excessive fuel consumption and, as a result, a sharp reduction in the fighter's range.

It is now becoming clear that the Chinese-made J-20 fighters with WS-15 engines will not be part of the PLA Air Force until the end of the year.
From posts in Chinese sources:

Chengdu Aircraft Industry is seriously lagging behind the flight test plan and work on putting fighters into service.

In this regard, it has been suggested that the serial production of the J-20 with new engines is still a long way off.

The publications were picked up in the American press. The Epoch Times writes that "we can hardly expect mass production of J-20 fighters with new aircraft engines in the near future."

Solving technological problems with WS-15 engines by the end of 2021 turned out to be an insoluble task for Chinese specialists. In this regard, the test schedule for the promising engine is changing again, as is the schedule for the supply of J-20 with such engines to the Chinese air force.
53 comments
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  1. Seryoga64
    Seryoga64 26 December 2021 13: 44
    +14
    It is much more difficult to do it yourself than to steal from others
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 26 December 2021 13: 57
      +2
      Quote: Seryoga64
      It is much more difficult to do it yourself than to steal from others

      In ten years (as the laws say), you can borrow anything you want ... Yes -
      FROM A LITTLE LITTLE - NOT ROOTING, BUT DEALING.
      1. Seryoga64
        Seryoga64 26 December 2021 14: 01
        +2
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Yes -
        FROM A LITTLE LITTLE - NOT ROOTING, BUT DEALING.

        Somewhere I already heard it ... laughing
    2. SKVichyakow
      SKVichyakow 26 December 2021 14: 42
      +2
      Quote: Seryoga64
      It is much more difficult to do it yourself than to steal from others

      therefore they borrow because they can and cannot even.
      1. Seryoga64
        Seryoga64 26 December 2021 14: 59
        -3
        Quote: SKVichyakow
        therefore they borrow because they can and cannot even

        So am I about it
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. viralig
          viralig 26 December 2021 18: 03
          +2
          All this is a matter of time. They are stubborn and do not spare money for it. So the result will be whether you like it or not.
    3. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 26 December 2021 21: 52
      +1
      They go in all ways: copying, buying licenses, training specialists, buying ready-made ones. AL ... ..
  2. Pavel episkop
    Pavel episkop 26 December 2021 13: 45
    +3
    It means that we will have to take Russian engines while these are in operation. But I think this will not affect the production of fighters. China can rivet and rivet them
    1. UGM159
      UGM159 26 December 2021 13: 59
      -33
      China has mastered the serial production of the WS-10C turbofan engine (WS-10C has a thrust at the afterburner of 15 kgf, they are also "first stage engines"). The maximum thrust of the WS-000 engine (Second stage engine for the J-15 fighter) reaches 20 -10000 kgf, afterburner - 11000-17000 kgf, Russia has no advantage.




      1. The popuas
        The popuas 26 December 2021 14: 14
        +5
        It would be interesting to compare the resource of similar engines repeat
        1. UGM159
          UGM159 26 December 2021 14: 58
          -26
          Same level:
          WS-10C - AL-41F-1
          WS-15 - "Product 30"
          1. Castro Ruiz
            Castro Ruiz 26 December 2021 15: 19
            +11
            Troll from Hochlandia.
          2. The popuas
            The popuas 26 December 2021 15: 19
            +4
            Here is a comparison of the resource of these engines! The same level ?!
          3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 December 2021 15: 20
            +4
            Quote: UGM159
            Same level:

            Well, you can't troll so thick. The only engine of the Celestial Empire, the resource of which is comparable to ours, is a Chinese copy of the Al-31F, the same one that is on the Su-27
            1. UGM159
              UGM159 26 December 2021 15: 38
              -17
              Who told you that? The WS-10 is a very distant cousin of the GE F110 engines that power the American F-15 and F-16.

              "According to the South China Morning Post, the PLA is moving to the WS-10C, an upgraded version of the older Shenyang WS-10 turbojet. An insider confirmed that in the future, J-20 fighters will be supplied with WS-10C engines, which, in his opinion, the characteristics will be slightly better than the AL-31F. "
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 December 2021 18: 11
                +11
                Quote: UGM159
                Who told you that?

                Said that?
                Quote: UGM159
                The WS-10 is a very distant cousin of the GE F110 engines that power the American F-15 and F-16.

                Mon cher, you can fantasize as much as you like, but the fact is that the WS-10 was done this way - the Chinese disassembled the Al-31F and then tried to create its analogue using the technologies of other countries that it had.

                And so, after much suffering, they did it. Naturally, the WS-10 is not an exact copy of the Al-31F; structurally, they are quite different. But in terms of performance characteristics, they are extremely close, as well as in terms of resource.
                Quote: UGM159
                An insider of the publication confirmed that in the future, J-20 fighters will be supplied with WS-10C engines, which, in his opinion, in their characteristics will be slightly better than the AL-31F.

                Yes Yes. In fact, we have the following.
                After suffering for more than a decade and with the use of a number of new technologies, the Chinese still managed to slightly surpass the engine, which went into mass production 40 years ago. But there is a nuance - the WS-10 resource remains within 1500 hours, which is quite consistent with the Soviet standards of the early 80s, but, disgustingly, is infinitely far from modern engines with 4000-6000 hours.
                Therefore, please leave the tales that China has caught up with the Russian Federation in the field of military engine building to the children of the younger Bandera age. They will be given a ride
            2. Alex777
              Alex777 26 December 2021 15: 45
              +3
              He already knows the product life of 30. laughing
            3. UGM159
              UGM159 26 December 2021 15: 51
              -13
              The only one?
              WS-20

              CJ-1000 (14 tons - thrust parameters)

              CJ-2000 / AEF3500 (35 tons - thrust parameters)
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 December 2021 18: 13
                +7
                Quote: UGM159
                The only one?
                WS-20

                Name the fighter. on which the WS-20 is installed
          4. Glagol1
            Glagol1 26 December 2021 15: 34
            +10
            In addition to traction, there are more important indicators:
            1. Resource assigned
            2. Overhaul intervals
            3. Cycle cost
            4. Maintainability in forward bases
            5. Cost-effectiveness
            6. Multi-mode
            Etc.
            Without a comprehensive consideration of all these factors, it is impossible to judge the level as a whole. The engine may be responsive, but the resource is not a fact at all.
            The Chinese, unlike us, filter information rigidly, you cannot understand what is really going on there. In general, only a few countries make an engine with a thrust of 15-18 tons for military aviation, so the Chinese have any respect.
          5. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 26 December 2021 21: 56
            0
            The resource of Al31 is 2000 hours and Al41 is 6000 hours ... and they look very similar. Plus weight and fuel consumption ... ... the time of just jet engines is already gone ... ... ... China, of course, has achievements, they will make turbojet engines, the question is - when will they go to the world level?
      2. ugol2
        ugol2 26 December 2021 14: 20
        +6
        Is it really "turbofan"?
      3. Sahalinets
        Sahalinets 26 December 2021 14: 31
        +2
        Here the question is in the resource and reliability. So for now, the Chinese Air Force is buying Russian engines en masse.
        1. UGM159
          UGM159 26 December 2021 14: 49
          -20
          It was a few years ago
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 26 December 2021 19: 40
          -3
          China will continue to buy Russian engines, it is just waiting for us to finish Product 30 for the Su 57 and put it into production.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 26 December 2021 21: 57
            0
            There are some obstacles in the sale of Al41 ... ... they were sold only with 15 pieces of Su35S, moreover, not adapted for China
      4. Dizel200
        Dizel200 27 December 2021 00: 51
        0
        Well, well, no and no. What to yell then? wassat flag in your hands and a rusty anchor in the asshole laughing
    2. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 26 December 2021 14: 01
      +8
      Quote: Paul episkop
      So you have to take Russian engines while these are in operation

      This is expected. I wrote about this many times. Blueprints are not technology. And the Chinese were denied the supply of equipment for spraying blades. The Americans (ALD) were prohibited from supplying such installations to China by the Germans (ALD). And in Russia they are. Their!!!
    3. vadim dok
      vadim dok 26 December 2021 16: 52
      -1
      Is the Russian stage 2 engine for SU 57 already being used on airplanes?
    4. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 26 December 2021 19: 55
      0
      And what's the point of riveting planes without engines?
  3. Vadim237
    Vadim237 26 December 2021 13: 47
    0
    Yes, it was clear to all the specialists that they began to put on the fighters what was and more or less worked.
  4. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 26 December 2021 13: 55
    +5
    The Chinese press at the end of the year acknowledged a significant delay in delivery of the fifth generation J-20 fighters with new WS-15 engines to the troops.

    The main thing is that they did not burn or drown.
    Russia is also experiencing difficulties in some areas of science. In particular, microelectronics. If China is such good neighbors, then we can cooperate.
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. Geofiz
      Geofiz 26 December 2021 14: 31
      +10
      Are you a bot? Why post the same thing?
      1. UGM159
        UGM159 26 December 2021 14: 53
        -27
        So you don't want to know the truth?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 December 2021 18: 26
          +3
          Quote: UGM159
          So you don't want to know the truth?

          I'm even afraid to ask what "truth" you saw in the above photos
          1. Reserve buildbat
            Reserve buildbat 27 December 2021 15: 37
            0
            Andrey, greetings! Why feed the troll? This is an ordinary pan-headed skakuas. It is useless to explain something to him.
        2. Rutrick
          Rutrick 27 December 2021 07: 46
          0
          Well, where does the information about afterburner thrust 15000 come from? I couldn't find one (by the way, AL31 doesn't have one, and for some reason the Chinese compare WS-10 with it, and not with al-41F1).
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Lonely loner
      Lonely loner 27 December 2021 02: 27
      0
      Is the WS-10C a turbofan? Do you want to change your readings?
  6. Andrey Moskvin
    Andrey Moskvin 26 December 2021 13: 59
    -6
    In China, someone will probably be shot for not fulfilling the plan? laughing
    1. aslan balayev
      aslan balayev 26 December 2021 14: 21
      0
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      In China, someone will probably be shot for not fulfilling the plan? laughing

      Not necessary. The Chinese work very conscientiously. They will do it.
      1. Andrey Moskvin
        Andrey Moskvin 26 December 2021 14: 51
        +3
        Probably, they will ... Just after the article about the USC, I wondered if such a situation was possible in China.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 26 December 2021 15: 49
          0
          Quote: Andrey Moskvin
          Probably, they will ... Just after the article about the USC, I wondered if such a situation was possible in China.

          Look how far south is China.
        2. aslan balayev
          aslan balayev 26 December 2021 15: 56
          0
          Of course, when it comes to pulling someone else's technology or not, then the Chinese are apparently not very whispering. It would be interesting to know how Mr. Confucius relates to such dark deeds of his followers.
        3. Slavors Gart
          Slavors Gart 26 December 2021 16: 57
          -1
          "they will do it ..." But the Soviet engines have not been able to copy for decades ... - in appearance and weight - everything is the same .., but they do not give traction ..., they have no intellect in Mongoloid boxes .. , only stupid copying, and productivity ..... Initially, this type of "person" was brought out - for physical labor, for minimal feeding.
      2. LifeIsGood
        LifeIsGood 27 December 2021 05: 05
        0
        Yeah, they've been sawing for 30 years now ... they can't cut everything. Well, maybe in another 15-20 years, they will pick up something. laughing
  7. Skipper
    Skipper 26 December 2021 14: 13
    +1
    And I always said that China is not yet a superpower because it has not learned how to make its own high-tech advanced engines for fighters. When he learns then he will be a superpower.
  8. dimy44
    dimy44 26 December 2021 14: 57
    +5
    Not everything can be copied with reverse engineering. General understanding only. At what temperature, what time, what mode, etc. The chemical composition can be investigated, but how to achieve those qualities? These are years of exploration, frustration, and new discoveries. It's kept secret and rightly so.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 26 December 2021 21: 59
      0
      China is the largest user of Western civilian liners and turbojet engines ... ..and where are their copies?
  9. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 26 December 2021 16: 12
    +2
    Not a word from the Chinese did not find about the problems with the engine. Yes, and it is unlikely that the Chinese would be allowed to write openly about problems with the newest aircraft. I would like the news to be backed up by links, otherwise it gives off yellowishness.
  10. Slavors Gart
    Slavors Gart 26 December 2021 16: 50
    -1
    These robots cannot invent anything on their own, they can’t even really repeat it ... Mongoloids, they were specially pumped up with technologies - either the USSR, then America ..., now some people are not happy themselves ...
  11. Berg berg
    Berg berg 26 December 2021 18: 23
    +1
    That is what the Chinese planes of the fifth generation could not fly without engines from the SU-35, which is why they made large purchases of this plane with spare engines. This was announced by the Chinese experts themselves, their own engine has a take-off-landing resource only for display!
  12. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 26 December 2021 19: 58
    -1
    Yeah. It is one thing to copy the sizes and shapes, the other is the technologies for obtaining materials and these very shapes.
  13. Emergency
    Emergency 27 December 2021 20: 25
    -2
    It's time for our counterparts to prepare for a meeting of herds of industrial spies from the Middle Kingdom. winked