Military Review

Similar to the F-35B: "strange" features of the new Chinese fighter

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The last months have turned out to be more than fruitful for the aircraft industry of the PRC. The Celestial Empire has begun flight tests of the first stories two-seat fighter the fifth generation, based on the "invisible" J-20. This machine is increasingly seen as a platform for UAV control, which will be the responsibility of the weapons operator.

Even more interesting is another novelty - a carrier-based fighter, which also took to the skies for the first time not so long ago. The word "new", as in the case of the J-20, can be applied conventionally. The vehicle, sometimes unofficially referred to as the J-35, is an evolution of the Shenyang FC-31, which first flew into the skies on October 31, 2012. Meanwhile, it differs from the basic version much more strongly than the serial Su-57 from its prototype.

The FC-31 itself is a cross between the F-35 and the F-22 Raptor. Moreover, it is not a "copy" of either one or the other. Not even the Russian fifth-generation fighter Su-57.


Like many stealth fighters, the aircraft has two engines, a V-tail and one pilot's seat. All this was inherited by the deck version, however, an important difference immediately attracts attention, which was among the first to be noticed by the English-language edition of The Drive.

Features of the novelty


Prior to the appearance of the latest version FC-31, the prototype and subsequent improved version had a “domed” canopy with a good view of the rear hemisphere. The new version features a completely redesigned canopy and cockpit layout. De facto, the pilot does not have the ability to normally see what is happening behind: the upper part of the fuselage "merges" with the rear part of the canopy.


Something similar can be seen on the F-35, but not on the most massive land-based version (A), and not on the deck (C), but on the F-35B short-takeoff and vertical landing aircraft designed for universal amphibious assault ships.


The American pilot is also largely "blind" when it comes to the view of the rear hemisphere. However, there is a nuance here. Firstly, in the case of the F-35B, the victim was forced and was dictated by the need to place a lifting fan behind the cockpit, without which the plane would not have been able to land vertically. In addition, the camera system should allow the 35's pilot to see "through" the aircraft, thanks to an innovative helmet-mounted display. How this was realized in practice is another question, now we will not touch on it. It is known that the inability to look "over the shoulder" still remains a serious problem for American pilots.

Does this mean that China is developing a short take-off and vertical landing aircraft? Such a fighter can be useful for light aircraft carriers or aircraft carriers that do not have launching catapults. These include, for example, the new British aircraft carrier "Queen Elizabeth", for which, after abandoning the catapult, the F-35B was chosen instead of the proposed F-35C. The very need to develop the "B" -version was dictated by the presence of the United States of universal amphibious assault ships, for which this issue, due to the limited space on the deck, is even more acute.

What do we see in the PRC example? The Chinese have already built several Type 075 universal amphibious assault ships, which have become some of the largest warships in Chinese history. However, for all its merits, this is not an analogue of the American UDC of the "America" ​​type, on which the F-35 are based. The 75th is a "clean" helicopter carrier, capable of carrying about 30 rotorcraft.


In addition, Beijing has two aircraft carriers - Shandong and Liaoning. They are devoid of launching catapults, but have large jumps that allow launching the heavy J-15 - the Chinese version of the Su-33. The third aircraft carrier currently under construction will receive a catapult. As well as the subsequent ones, one must assume. It is for them that the new fighter is being created.

Thus, China has no direct need for a short takeoff and vertical landing aircraft. The reason for the "strange" appearance of the J-35 may lie elsewhere. Perhaps the Chinese decided to make the most of the interior space so that the plane could carry as much fuel as possible. This is critical for two reasons. First, huge sea areas traditionally require a large combat radius. Second, if a fifth generation fighter wants to remain “invisible,” it should not carry outboard fuel tanks.

Finally, the extremely large internal arms bays impose restrictions. It is for the reasons listed above that the American F-35 looks "bloated", which is often reproached for calling "flying fuel tank"(And other, even less flattering nicknames).

It cannot be ruled out that the layout of the Chinese deck boat was dictated by aerodynamic requirements or by the need to place some kind of equipment behind the lantern. However, all this could be done without resorting to such a sharp limitation of the pilot's view.

The main violin of the naval war


Be that as it may, we will hardly know the whole truth about the new plane in the near future (not the fact that it will ever be known at all). This applies to its flight and technical qualities, stealth indicators, avionics and arsenal of weapons. One thing is certain. The arrival of the F-35C counterpart opens a whole new chapter in the history of the Chinese Navy.

Now the basis of his deck aviation - the aforementioned Shenyang J-15. It is a fourth generation fighter that is often criticized for its high accident rate, general underdevelopment and lack of stealth technology. The only real advantages of the machine over the old Su-33 can be called a higher level of avionics and a much wider arsenal of aviation weapons. However, neither one nor the other is not enough to effectively counter the American carrier-based F / A-18E / F Super Hornet, not to mention the fifth-generation F-35C fighter.


Thus, the Shandong and Liaoning with their J-15s cannot be viewed as effective measures against the US Navy. De facto, we are now only at the beginning of the formation of a truly powerful aircraft carrier strike group in Beijing. Her story begins with the advent of the Type 003.

The new deck boat may become a key part of the AUG of the future, but not the only potentially effective one. weapons against the US Navy. Recently, the Chinese showed a slide showing a clash between the American and Chinese aircraft carrier strike groups. The emphasis was placed not on manned vehicles, but on the use of GJ-11 UAVs, which they want to launch from UDC type 075 and which can carry large precision bombs and missiles.


Fifth-generation carrier-based fighters are also present in the image: they fly behind the UAV and provide cover.
Author:
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  1. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 28 December 2021 05: 41
    +7
    Similar to the F-35B: "strange" features of the new Chinese fighter
    "there are only seven notes?" (C)
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 28 December 2021 06: 38
      +10
      I don’t see any big limitation of the backward view, but taking into account the headrest of the seat and a hefty helmet and with a "full-fledged" flashlight, the pilot does not have much opportunity to keep an eye on the tail.
      1. Civil
        Civil 28 December 2021 08: 27
        0
        Or maybe they got the documents on the F-35 B? That's why the configuration is like that.
      2. English tarantas
        English tarantas 28 December 2021 10: 36
        +10
        And even wondering what he will see there then? How does an enemy fighter slowly but surely sneak up to the distance of a pistol shot so as not to waste missiles, or a zur flying at a few swings?
    2. PPD
      PPD 28 December 2021 11: 11
      +1
      But there are 12 sounds. laughing
      1. poquello
        poquello 29 December 2021 16: 09
        0
        Quote: PPD
        But there are 12 sounds. laughing

        much more
    3. boni592807
      boni592807 4 January 2022 18: 21
      0
      Aerodrome (Aerodrome). 28 December 2021 05:41, NEW -
      "... Similar to the F-35B: 'strange' features of the new Chinese fighter
      "only seven notes? "(C) ..."

      Nothing personal", crying competent "work" from foreign intelligence + diaspora + ALREADY good specialists of today's China good . Compilation with the possibility of rethinking (all borrowings received, have weaknesses and problems) and create OWN ...Competently and promisingly and MINIMIZATION of costs !!!!...And now it's YOURS hi and not only on "paper"o and waste production ....
  2. Snail N9
    Snail N9 28 December 2021 05: 42
    -3
    And, our boats are burning strangely ... recourse Not up to the aircraft carrier ...
    1. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 28 December 2021 06: 27
      +3
      Quote: Snail N9
      And, our boats are burning strangely ...

      Anglo-Saxon spies are to blame, not otherwise.)))))
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 28 December 2021 07: 10
        +5
        Spies ... Do you think again "the Englishwoman is crap? Or is it that our" effective managers "are hiding their ends in the water, sorry, into the fire, hiding? Now the taiga, now the boat ... The system is already, however ...
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 28 December 2021 07: 26
          +1
          effective managers "

          What does effective managers mean?

          Why does everyone repeat this phrase
          1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
            Sidor Amenpodestovich 28 December 2021 08: 02
            +1
            Quote: Santa Fe
            What does effective managers mean?

            Why does everyone repeat this phrase

            Necropatriots are absolutely convinced: if somewhere else something bad happens, then this is certainly just an unfavorable combination of circumstances. But if we have, then there can be nothing else but malicious intent or impenetrable stupidity.
          2. Maxim Davydov
            Maxim Davydov 28 December 2021 16: 52
            -2
            Out of envy.
          3. Sankiny
            Sankiny 2 January 2022 14: 33
            -1
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Why does everyone repeat this phrase

            There is nothing more to tell them)))
            The main thing is to raise your leg (arm) and check in
          4. Third district
            Third district 3 January 2022 19: 01
            0
            Correctly spelled like this - effective managers.
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 28 December 2021 09: 34
          +11
          Well, for example today:

          The garrison military court in Moscow sent into custody the former consultant of the Department of the Navy of JSC "Rosoboronexport" Andrey Klokotsky and the ex-head of the service for the development and operation of missile and artillery weapons of the shipbuilding department Vadim Movchan.

          As Kommersant writes on December 28, captains of the 1st rank are accused in a criminal case of embezzlement of almost 700 million rubles when modernizing the weapons of the Northern Fleet's warships.

          Earlier, ex-leaders of the Electropribor Plant OJSC Mutalib Emiraliev and Soyuz-M AO Zamir Akhmedov were also arrested.

          According to the investigation, in 2013 Klokotsky and Movchan entered into a criminal conspiracy with Emiraliev, Akhmedov and other defendants. In the period until December 2017, they "by deception and abuse of confidence of officials of the Ministry of Defense" stole 692,7 million rubles. The money, in particular, was intended for procurement of navigation equipment and repair of anti-aircraft missile systems that are part of the armament of missile cruisers of the Northern Fleet.
          belay what
          1. SERVER
            SERVER 28 December 2021 10: 34
            +5
            And when developing one of the UAVs, they also slammed about a billion rubles.
          2. musketon64
            musketon64 28 December 2021 12: 04
            +5
            Everything goes to the fact that the president of the Russian Federation will choose between "Mutalib Emiraliev" and "Zamir Akhmedov". How did these gentlemen end up in the armchairs of defense enterprises?
            1. Lekz
              Lekz 6 January 2022 01: 46
              0
              Don't get excited. I am not ready to share your joy over the choice of the president from Andrei Klokotsky and Vadim Movchan. But if the businessmen you mentioned are simply thieving, then one of those named by me is the head of the service for the development and operation of missile and artillery weapons of the shipbuilding department. This probably excuses him.
          3. The comment was deleted.
        3. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 28 December 2021 15: 35
          -1
          Quote: Snail N9
          Spies ... Do you think "the Englishwoman is crap again?"

          No, just inspired by these comments.))))))
          Quote: lucul
          ..... I wonder if the investigation confirms that this is a planned sabotage of the West? Skomorokhov will apologize or not? )))

          Quote: lucul
          The bottom line is that everything there could be generously poured even with napalm (no repair work was carried out that day), and these non-combustible materials from which the superstructure is made, after they reach 800 ° C temperature, they burn just like that.
          The main thing is to help them reach 800⁰С.
          1. Third district
            Third district 3 January 2022 19: 04
            +1
            A special feature of a saboteur spy is a tank of napalm on the back.
        4. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 28 December 2021 15: 40
          -1
          Quote: Snail N9
          The system is already, however ...

          It is high time to change this system.
    2. Lekz
      Lekz 6 January 2022 01: 56
      0
      Let's say it was not the "ship" that was burning, but the construction object (if you can call this metal structure that way). What does not happen in production. More recently, the Whidbey Island-class USS Gunston Hall (LSD-44) amphibious assault ship was on fire. So there is a bill for a billion green. Therefore, calmer, without strain.
  3. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 28 December 2021 06: 12
    -19
    Find 10
    matches F 35 with YAK 141.
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 28 December 2021 06: 24
      +17
      There are more differences than coincidences.
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 28 December 2021 07: 50
      +7
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Find 10 matches of # 35 with YAK 141.

      Failed your task ((did not find ((Can you tell me what are the matches?
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 28 December 2021 09: 27
        -9
        this is because you are not trying to think. If you do not go into details, then there are at least 6 similar features: 1. Two-finned plumage. 2. a normal aerodynamic planner. 3. Wing of low aspect ratio. 4. single cockpit. 5. Semi-monocoque with a rectangular midship. 6. Single-engine PMD.
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 28 December 2021 09: 57
          -8
          You can also add a zone of deflection of the nozzle relative to the stern keels, location. hi
        2. English tarantas
          English tarantas 28 December 2021 10: 40
          +11
          So by such "coincidences" you can find several planes
        3. Mars231
          Mars231 29 December 2021 00: 29
          +1
          Quote: Ka-52
          this is because you are not trying to think. If you do not go into details, then there are at least 6 similar features: 1. Two-finned plumage. 2. a normal aerodynamic planner. 3. Wing of low aspect ratio. 4. single cockpit. 5. Semi-monocoque with a rectangular midship. 6. Single-engine PMD.

          I forgot about the fan behind the pilot's back ...
    3. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 28 December 2021 08: 55
      +1
      But the task from me, will you find matches with the Yak-141?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 28 December 2021 09: 10
        0
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        But the task from me, will you find matches with the Yak-141?

        What year is the picture, won't you tell? Otherwise it might be better to compare it with the Yak-38.
      2. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 28 December 2021 09: 18
        -6
        Well, we found the first one with your help, a 90-degree deflectable nozzle of the engine! lol
    4. Avior
      Avior 28 December 2021 21: 30
      +1
      there is only one thing, but in the photo it is not visible. Rolls-Royce three-link rotary nozzle.
    5. Guru
      Guru 28 December 2021 22: 51
      +1
      Do you think that coincidences should only be external? laughing But if you look at the internal constructs, and compare with the foreign ones existing at that time, then the answer will be obvious. F-35B - developed by the Yakovlev design bureau, if you are so interested.
      1. Outsider
        Outsider 4 January 2022 13: 13
        +1
        - Heavy "nonsense in vegetable oil"... This nonsense has been replicated for 20 years, in every way. It is only true that Lockheed Martin really bought a license for the Yak-141 rotary nozzle for very little money.... It's true. Everything else is a lie.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 4 January 2022 13: 19
          +1
          Quote: Outsider
          Lockheed Martin actually bought a license for the Yak-141 rotary nozzle for very little money. It's true.

          No. LM ordered the development of a vertical take-off system from RR, they, in turn, bought access to the design documentation for the Yak-141 nozzle. Whether or not the RR used this data to develop the nozzle is unknown. Rolls-Royce already had development on this topic a decade earlier.
  4. Serg Kam
    Serg Kam 28 December 2021 06: 27
    +3
    I'm glad for China, many interesting new products are being rolled out.
    It's a pity at the time we had a pretty strong fight with them, now there could be many joint military projects
  5. Free wind
    Free wind 28 December 2021 06: 50
    +4
    Any person's head does not rotate 180 degrees, even if you crack it. No, you can unscrew it. laughing Well, the problem of rearview is everywhere, even for pedestrians.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 28 December 2021 07: 41
      +2
      remember the movie "only" old men "go to battle" ... remember? "he was knocked down like a messer, he looks around every 10 seconds now ..."
      1. gurzuf
        gurzuf 28 December 2021 18: 40
        +1
        However, this is from the Baltic sky.
      2. Outsider
        Outsider 4 January 2022 13: 15
        +1
        - Quite rightly looking around - only started late. If he had started earlier, "Messer" would not have hit him, but he would have shot down "Messer" ... smile
  6. likas
    likas 28 December 2021 08: 16
    +8
    Once the Chinese rejoiced at our tractors and looked with amazement at the Belarus tractor, and today UAZ are taught how to make off-road vehicles ... here is our "progress"
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 28 December 2021 08: 47
      -1
      what is the relationship between UAZ, SUVs, "our progress" and the question asked in the topic (albeit stupid) about the similarity of Chinese and American fighters? For you, for all the supporters, any topic is automatically translated into Russian problems, even if it is about "if there is life on Mars" fool
      1. agond
        agond 28 December 2021 08: 58
        0
        It's just that the Chinese also realized the need to have an aircraft, the design of which allows, in the future, between the engine and the cockpit to place a large electric generator, possibly with an electric energy storage, necessary for the operation of laser weapons
      2. SERVER
        SERVER 28 December 2021 10: 35
        +2
        Exactly, here is life on Mars, yes, otherwise we have it in Russia))
      3. avg avg
        avg avg 28 December 2021 14: 29
        -2
        There is no connection, but you have to suffer!
      4. Sankiny
        Sankiny 2 January 2022 14: 58
        +1
        Quote: Ka-52
        what is the relationship between UAZ, SUVs, "our progress" and the question asked in the topic (albeit stupid) about the similarity of Chinese and American fighters?

        - such as you put +, because on the topic of the article, the technical innovation of certain aircraft should be discussed;
        - the condition of 80% here is not the "Military Review", but the Spring Aggravation, regardless of the seasons!)))
        Good luck and all the best!
  7. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 28 December 2021 08: 49
    +2
    Why not use someone else's work and improve them? This is certainly not news for China.
  8. Detnix
    Detnix 28 December 2021 08: 59
    -5
    Clones are all for the Chinese and Koreans, they themselves do not know how to create their own.
  9. Ka-52
    Ka-52 28 December 2021 09: 10
    +1
    The American pilot is also largely "blind" when it comes to the view of the rear hemisphere.

    Comrade Legate would have already made up his mind. Either he believes that the era of close combat, when it was important to have visual contact with the enemy, has passed and now everything is decided by long-range explosive missiles, then it suddenly became important for the pilot to see what was behind him.
    1. English tarantas
      English tarantas 28 December 2021 10: 48
      +7
      And what am I talking about.
      Although I am not an expert in aviation, just a "mesmerized listener", but something tells me, if you, after the 60s, can look at an enemy plane or zur, then it's too late.
      And the author does not seem to be aware that the SVP was originally created not for aircraft carrying ships in general, namely that to counter the bombing of the runway, so who told him that the Chinese were doing it for an aircraft carrier. Moreover, I did not see in the article about vertical take-off, maybe it's just a light, fast, elusive bombing ram, which is what f35a / b are. Yes, and the mention of the su-35 seems to hint to the reader, they say, again the Chinese have copied everything from us, but alas, the Chinese have not copied from us for a long time, and we ourselves copied f35, only the Chinese flies, but our layout.
  10. Opiuk
    Opiuk 28 December 2021 09: 10
    +2
    Why be surprised? In the United States, a Chinese man has long admitted that they were performing a series of cyber espionage on documents f-22 and f-35, they don’t care at all. Such an economy and such an exporter cannot be intimidated by sanctions, nor by military intervention.
  11. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 28 December 2021 09: 26
    +1
    Shenyang J-15. This is a fourth generation fighter that is often criticized for its high accident rate, general underdevelopment and lack of stealth technology.

    1. It seems to me that there are more chances and ready-made solutions to bring the J-15 ...
    2. What is the superiority of F18?
    3. If the future is in a deck-based S-70 type UAV, then maybe there is no need to bother with a stealth aircraft right now?
  12. Yurahip
    Yurahip 28 December 2021 09: 27
    +1
    Why be surprised? Half of the developers are ethnic Chinese, and the other half regularly eat Chinese noodles. So secrets are buried in the Celestial Empire, with urine, probably.
    1. English tarantas
      English tarantas 28 December 2021 10: 50
      +3
      urine probably

      Ignorant, not with urine, but with Chi energy
  13. dreamshake
    dreamshake 28 December 2021 09: 53
    -11
    In fact, only Russia has a full-fledged "5ka" aircraft with characteristics that dominate the performance characteristics of 4th generation aircraft. USA and China are trying
    1. vadim dok
      vadim dok 28 December 2021 17: 16
      +1
      What aircraft of the 5th generation does the Russian Federation have? The SU-57 is not yet in the army, and the stage 2 engine, as they say, is "Saturn is almost invisible."
  14. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 28 December 2021 11: 29
    +5
    It is known that the inability to look "over the shoulder" still remains a serious problem for American pilots.

    It is necessary to make a separate booth on the body for the gunner-radio operator! repeat
    1. Third district
      Third district 3 January 2022 19: 14
      +1
      There is a rear-view mirror for sure, it was used very successfully before.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 3 January 2022 19: 36
        0
        It is quite possible to replace it with a selfie stick and a Huawei.
  15. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 28 December 2021 11: 33
    +10
    "It is known that the inability to look" over the shoulder "still remains a serious problem for American pilots" ///
    ----
    ?? belay
    On the F-15 and F-16, the pilots have an excellent all-round view of the convex coverless
    caps.

    On the F-35, the pilot does not need to turn his head at all.
    He receives all information about the enemy on a single screen (or directly on the helmet) with
    many sensors around the perimeter of the fuselage.
    Info in the form of animations. (The cockpit can at least be painted over with black paint laughing ).
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 28 December 2021 16: 35
      -1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      On the F-35, the pilot does not need to turn his head at all.
      He receives all information about the enemy on a single screen (or directly on the helmet) with
      many sensors around the perimeter of the fuselage.
      Info in the form of animations. (The cockpit can even be painted over with black paint).

      Why, then, does the pilot need a coverless hood on the Fu-35 and what is the reason for the classic layout of the pilot, because with such a single screen system, he can be located anywhere in the plane, it is not necessary to be in front of the cockpit?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 28 December 2021 17: 01
        +7
        When the F-35 was being designed, it was not clear whether there would be
        this newest system of "full blind awareness" to work,
        as intended. This is the first such aircraft.
        Therefore, all the classic elements have been preserved.
        Actually, only now in 2020-2021 it became clear
        that the "bells and whistles" of virtual reality were successful.
        And they are being transferred from the F-35 to the B-21 and NGAD.
  16. Kushka
    Kushka 28 December 2021 13: 58
    +4
    If someone has forgotten a little, I remind you that in general
    only half a day is light, and even then you will not always be
    surround the cloudless sky. Modern military strategists
    are you going to fight only during daylight hours? And only in
    clear weather? (See news from Syria - the port was bombed at night)
    Why and where should the pilot look around at night or
    in fog / cloudy? Maybe he'd better call a "tow truck"?
    1. poquello
      poquello 29 December 2021 16: 43
      0
      Quote: Kushka
      Why and where should the pilot look around at night or
      in fog / cloudy? Maybe he'd better call a "tow truck"?

      will be guided by headlights and side lights, or fly along illuminated routes
      1. Kushka
        Kushka 29 December 2021 18: 46
        +1
        The key is illuminated.
        I had one time on Moskvich - took my family to the sea,
        there hung a little, and back into the night. I'm driving, 50 km left,
        began to fall asleep. I went out for a walk (at night - my fingers are not visible).
        And here is the city, phew, came to life a little, but I'm going carefully.
        I passed the industrial suburb, ahead of the intersection and behind it the city
        the arboretum, the light on the stretch for some reason was cut down and you can't see it.
        I rolled my eyes - it seems like on the axial 100 meters of some kind of a couple of lights
        smolder. While I was cutting, suddenly on the side of them, two more appear - one above
        one and next. They "hang" right up to the asphalt and swing. And suddenly take off
        up and start spinning. Well, I think, hello squirrel.
        When the big-bellied guy bang his belly on the hood. - "traffic is closed - detour"
        Fu, second time .....
        So, the rusty five stood on the center line. A guy got out of it
        with a lighted stick and she whipped him on the boot, then he
        picked up and began to write circles with her .......
        Then in the city they said that there was a night accident, and "my" day
        an investigative experiment was conducted there .........
      2. Third district
        Third district 3 January 2022 19: 17
        0
        And what about the radio tape recorders, are they also installed for the comfort of the pilot?
        1. poquello
          poquello 3 January 2022 20: 33
          0
          Quote: Third District
          And what about the radio tape recorders, are they also installed for the comfort of the pilot?

          but then! with an FM receiver to listen to Aviaradio and Air Radio
  17. Kushka
    Kushka 28 December 2021 14: 06
    0
    "..then it suddenly became important for the pilot to see what was behind him."
    Well, what if, the man thought, the pilot should park with his back on the Avik
    have to?
  18. gregor6549
    gregor6549 28 December 2021 15: 19
    +3
    It is not clear why so many copies have already been broken in the discussion about the possibility or impossibility for the pilot of the aircraft in question to look around in order to observe the rear hemisphere and visually detect the enemy aircraft "sneaking up" from behind.
    Firstly, the ability to cast a glance over the shoulder was elementarily solved and is being solved now with the help of the simplest optical means (periscopes, rear-view mirrors, etc.).
    Secondly, many modern aircraft are already equipped with systems for viewing the rear hemisphere (electronic - optical, radar, etc.), information from which is given to the pilot in a form that is digestible for him, including in the form of sound signals or special marks on displays.
    Thirdly, the air forces of developed countries have long been using ground and air command and control units equipped with airspace surveillance (AWACS, PORI aircraft, etc.) that provide monitoring of the air situation in the OBD zones and the issuance of relevant information about their own and other aircraft in these zones. That is, a fighter plane or a front-line bomber has someone to get information about what is happening in the rear hemisphere. Moreover, the information is necessary and sufficient for the implementation of the BZ by the fighter.
    But the main thing is not that. Let's say the plane is "Ofanorel" so that it was able to provide the pilot with the opportunity to twist his head and look over his shoulder "back". The question is at what distance a given pilot will be able to see an approaching enemy aircraft, recognize that it is really an enemy and assess the threat that it poses.
    It should be borne in mind that in absolutely clear weather, an enemy aircraft at a distance of 5 km will look like a fly on a window pane to the observer, if you look at the fly from the opposite corner of a medium-sized room. And the pilot must have time to see this "fly" and also evaluate its flight parameters with a short glance over his shoulder.
    In more difficult conditions (twilight, cloudiness, etc.), the task of visually detecting an enemy aircraft (c) and assessing its flight parameters increases many times over. And given the fact that the air forces of many countries have long been armed with air-to-air missiles for the use of which there is no need to approach the enemy at a distance of visual contact, then all this “shooting with eyes over the shoulder” is of no use except harm (with rare exceptions) will not bring.
    It can also be noted that even during the 2nd World Attempts to visually detect air targets, experienced fighter pilots were successful in no more than 20% of the total number of interception sorties. Those fighters took off to intercept and ... did not find targets in the air and then returned to their airfields with nothing. At the same time, the use of data from very primitive radars at that time (for example, the stationary radar chain of the British Air Force) brought this percentage to 90.
  19. yehat2
    yehat2 28 December 2021 16: 34
    0
    I think the author's conclusions are not entirely logical. Let's say the Chinese saved space, but who prevented them from making at least a slightly convex lantern or some kind of slight bevel to improve visibility, in order to have a partial view back? Well, let's say the plane loses at the same time 20 kilometers of maximum speed - not a great loss for the sake of increasing combat stability.
    It turns out that they generally did not care much about the backward review.
    1. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 28 December 2021 22: 53
      0
      Quote: yehat2
      I think the author's conclusions are not entirely logical. Let's say the Chinese saved space, but who prevented them from making at least a slightly convex lantern or some kind of slight bevel to improve visibility, in order to have a partial view back? Well, let's say the plane loses at the same time 20 kilometers of maximum speed - not a great loss for the sake of increasing combat stability.
      It turns out that they generally did not care much about the backward review.
      Here is Messerschmitt Bf-109
      The cockpit is made according to the same principle. The first flight of the Bf-109 in 1935.
      And now Messerschmitt Me262
      Made with a different cockpit that can be viewed backwards. The first flight was in 1941.
      Designers probably "know better" ...
      hi
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 30 December 2021 13: 46
        0
        The bf109 grew out of a line of sports aircraft where ergonomics and rearward visibility did not matter at all
        1. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich 30 December 2021 23: 03
          0
          Quote: yehat2
          The bf109 grew out of a line of sports aircraft where ergonomics and rearward visibility did not matter at all

          The Germans riveted 14 pieces until April 1945, 30573, in Spain the Bf-109 was made from 1944 to 1958, in Czechoslovakia the Bf-109 was made in 1945-48, and no one bothered that the Messer had no backward review ...
          hi
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 31 December 2021 17: 46
            0
            Well, there was a lot of lobbying there. Not everyone was happy with the 109 in the backlash. And among the aces, half immediately changed from the thin one to other cars, as soon as the opportunity arose. And this is no coincidence - a third of the dead thin pilots did not die from an enemy bullet, they were killed by a car.
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 29 December 2021 09: 09
      -2
      Can anyone explain to me why a modern aircraft needs a flashlight at all? Maybe you still need to attach a couple of shafts and an arch with bells? Honestly, sometimes routine stupidity just freezes.
      In modern aircraft, general electronics failure is absolutely fatal. In terms of flying qualities, this is just a sledgehammer, and that's it. As such, the electronics must be relied upon as the main system. Therefore, it is logical to make an armored capsule with a lodgment for the pilot, positioning it so as to withstand overloads as much as possible.
      Sitting holding onto a handle is a stupid anachronism. The pilot must lie with his arms at his side and the controls must be adapted to this position. The picture must be formed by a couple of dozen video cameras located throughout the body. Cameras should work on different principles (at the moment, at least four can be distinguished), communication with the control center should also be organized in different ways. Thus, it is necessary to form a multi-picture of a real all-round view.
      All this weird ancient junk that is being snatched up to us as "latest technology" looks ridiculous and terribly stupid.
      1. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 30 December 2021 09: 03
        0
        Quote: Mikhail3
        All this weird ancient junk that is being snatched up to us as "latest technology" looks ridiculous and terribly stupid.


        Benefactor, dear father - but where have you been for so many years, and scientists physiologists soar for us a view forward, a view downward, adjustment of the ejection seat in height, so that the viewing angles are observed.
        And here is how simple the man painted everything: "the pilot must lie down" - for sure! Doctorate in the studio!
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 30 December 2021 14: 12
          -1
          Lord)) I just don't know how to answer you. This picture is from the times of somewhere in the forties of the last century. Well fifties, okay. These same "viewing angles" depend on the position of the head, all of a sudden. And a physiologically grounded posture is a posture of minimal load, that is, lying down. It's just that in those old days, you had to steer with your hands, dragging the cables with the handle. And struggling with the oil that poured from the engine in all directions, flooding the sight. Since then, nothing, nothing at all, absolutely, in the customer's thinking has not changed.
          You still want Farman 4. Maximum is highly advanced Sopovich-Camel. Ukatayka))
      2. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 30 December 2021 09: 33
        0
        Quote: Mikhail3
        Sitting holding onto a handle is a stupid anachronism. The pilot must lie with his arms at his side and the controls must be adapted to this position.

        There was one such German figure who designed an experimental aircraft where the pilot lay ...
        Siebel-346


        The nose of the hull was occupied by a pressurized cockpit, the bed was placed horizontally so that he was in a supine position, face down. This layout of the pilot's workplace was used to reduce the drag of the fuselage. The pilot's rescue system in the event of an accident also matched it. The cockpit was attached to the fuselage with bolts and in an emergency it was separated from the aircraft.

        Try to lie on your stomach for a long time and look, in relation to the body - upwards - the vessels of the brain are pinched, after 15-20 minutes the pilot already feels uncomfortable. The same is true if you lie on your back and look at your feet - unnatural positions that affect the blood circulation in the brain and make it difficult to control.
        Therefore, recumbent pilot landing schemes are only in experimental aircraft, and in serial ones they are not and never will be!
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 30 December 2021 14: 15
          0
          Which belly? Why?! The German did it because the pilot had to look into the lantern, the tree! And even such a change in position gave the pilot enormous advantages. And a modern multi-picture can give a person a 360-degree view, a full sphere. Regardless of what position the pilot is in at all.
          Damn, here's a parade of wit))
  20. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 28 December 2021 22: 26
    +1
    As expected, almost the same, but at a price three times cheaper and with two SIM cards.
  21. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 29 December 2021 08: 59
    0
    There was no war for a long time. A long time ago. Therefore, modern weapons are more and more monstrous, and more and more unsuitable for real combat operations. Quite a common picture.
    1. Outsider
      Outsider 4 January 2022 13: 47
      +1
      - It is not true, since in developed countries all weapons systems, and aircraft - first of all, - are checked during numerous exercises, where the severity of the situation can be set whatever you want!
      It is during these exercises that all the shortcomings and shortcomings of aircraft at the pre-production stage are revealed and appropriate adjustments are made to the design (if possible). As a rule, models for launching a series are selected on a competitive basis (YF-22 and YF-23, X-32 and X-35)
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 4 January 2022 18: 06
        -3
        In the thirties and early forties, the Red Army was also "tested in the course of numerous exercises." And how great it was! And medals were handed out, and prizes, and titles, all based on the results ...
        And this is in a country where capital did not rule. And now? Stand in the way of one hundred billion cash flows ?! Are you really that naive? You can't even rub your ass with these teachings.
        1. Outsider
          Outsider 5 January 2022 00: 48
          0
          - What is the connection between the development of aviation in the totalitarian Stalinist USSR, "where capital did not rule" - and the development of aviation in the modern democratic USA, "where capital rules" ?! fool
          You can't even rub your ass with these teachings.

          - I thought you had a poor understanding of the situation with the development of military aircraft in the United States. But your representations are much worse than zero, something with a negative sign ...
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 5 January 2022 10: 55
            -1
            Do you have money for the "development of aviation"? That's right) Profitable, yeah. Except ... Money has power. In order to limit this power, our ancestors went to death without flinching. They knew very well what she was - monetary power.
            And now no one will stand up for giving money on the tinsel. Wrong moment. So everyone, absolutely and absolutely everyone, does not care about some ridiculous defense capability, and even more so about the development of aviation. There are no such people among those who decide these matters. then they did the counter-revolution.
            So these very teachings and tests are not to raise the matter. They are in order to receive and share financial flows. Of course, if you go to the proven Nieuporas, there will be even more money (and everyone is dreaming about it), but it doesn't work. So the level must be maintained. So that "not worse than foreign ones." It's all.
            Whether these things are necessary for the war or the development of aviation, or not at all, whether these aircraft can perform a combat mission, they cannot, they completely do not care. If you are related, you all know this very well) Try not to admit to yourself?) In vain. All this is clearly visible from the side ...
            1. Outsider
              Outsider 5 January 2022 11: 01
              0
              - But how do planes turn out in the United States then, in the process of all this "dough sharing", which you cannot find in the USSR and Russia with a flashlight ?! Which with the American "and did not roll around" ?! Who are two or three heads behind ??
              Besides the term "share financial flows", you also know the term "create a high-tech level" ?!

              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 5 January 2022 11: 03
                -2
                America was built by the smartest people. How they did it, and why even now, when America is in severe decline, it still continues (rarely, but still) to produce strong results, despite everything, this cannot be summed up in a nutshell) I no longer write articles for VO. Think for yourself, thinking is useful.
                1. Outsider
                  Outsider 9 January 2022 12: 45
                  0
                  I no longer write articles for VO.

                  - So you also "wrote articles" here ?? laughing lol repeat
  22. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 30 December 2021 08: 57
    0
    the upper part of the fuselage "merges" with the rear part of the canopy

    Isn't it a gargrot? :))
    Gargrot is an aerodynamic element that connects protruding elements and the fuselage.
  23. MauZerR
    MauZerR 30 December 2021 12: 12
    0
    Quote: tralflot1832
    Find 10
    matches F 35 with YAK 141.

    Apparently this refers to the PMD scheme with a three-section rotary nozzle. Which the Americans allegedly bought for $ 10000 in the 90s.
  24. MauZerR
    MauZerR 30 December 2021 12: 13
    0
    Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
    the upper part of the fuselage "merges" with the rear part of the canopy

    Isn't it a gargrot? :))
    Gargrot is an aerodynamic element that connects protruding elements and the fuselage.

    With an integral glider layout, the gargrot is very difficult to distinguish.
  25. Outsider
    Outsider 4 January 2022 00: 32
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    I don’t see any big limitation of the backward view, but taking into account the headrest of the seat and a hefty helmet and with a "full-fledged" flashlight, the pilot does not have much opportunity to keep an eye on the tail.

    - The F-35 pilot does not need to turn his head 180 °, he has a DAS system:

  26. Outsider
    Outsider 4 January 2022 00: 41
    +1
    Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
    Quote: Mikhail3
    All this weird ancient junk that is being snatched up to us as "latest technology" looks ridiculous and terribly stupid.


    Benefactor, dear father - but where have you been for so many years, and scientists physiologists soar for us a view forward, a view downward, adjustment of the ejection seat in height, so that the viewing angles are observed.
    And here is how simple the man painted everything: "the pilot must lie down" - for sure! Doctorate in the studio!

    - To lie down - not to lie, but on the most decent fighters in the world, the back of the ejection seat is set at an angle to the vertical up to 30 °, and the handle is made lateral strain gauge - you move a little with a brush and the plane is easily controlled - the elbow is supported, at any overload. And the deflection of the back by 30 ° back reduces the normal overload (ny) from 9g, to 9 * cos30 ° = 7.8g, - it's already easier to breathe! Plus VKK works, removes three more ones, 4.8g remains - and with such an overload, and with good press, you can already get a chance to win the coolest dogfight ... smile
  27. Outsider
    Outsider 4 January 2022 00: 46
    +1
    Quote: APASUS
    Why, then, does the pilot need a cover on the Fu-35

    - For a sharp decrease in radar signature, of course!
    And what then is the reason for the classic layout of the pilot, because with such a system of a single screen, he can be located anywhere in the plane, it is not necessary to be in front of the cockpit?

    - At all? fool It best seat for the pilot.
  28. Outsider
    Outsider 4 January 2022 13: 31
    +1
    Quote: Ka-52
    what is the relationship between UAZ, SUVs, "our progress" and the question asked in the topic (albeit stupid) about the similarity of Chinese and American fighters? For you, for all the supporters, any topic is automatically translated into Russian problems, even if it is about "if there is life on Mars" fool

    - The Chinese, taking advantage of the fact that the Mongoloids do not blush, completely shamelessly and mercilessly ripped off all the achievements of the Americans with their two stealths. And they did quite right.
    The creators of the Su-57 went along untrodden paths, through ravines and gullies - and came where they came - having received an airplane that absolutely no one needs, including the native Moscow Region and the VKS family. Because they spit on all the developments of the Americans and made two fundamental mistakes at the very beginning of the design, - designed the weapons bays "one behind the other" instead of placing them side by side... As a result:
    1. "Down the drain" the power characteristics of the airframe - the maximum operational overload before the aircraft was sent for overhaul was + 6.5 / -2 (shame on the fighter's share), and chief designer Davidenko was sent somewhere to hell.


    2. Because of this layout, the aircraft has lost the most useful S-shaped input devices - and it is no longer possible to make it stealth, - blades of the VNA and the first stage of the low-pressure compressor protrude from the air intakes, lifting up the frontal EPR, the devil knows how:



    As a result, the plane, in contrast to the pragmatic, albeit shameless Chinese, turned out to be completely irrelevant to anyone, neither their own nor strangers. But because they wanted to do "not like them." Fraer was ruined by pride ...

  29. Outsider
    Outsider 4 January 2022 13: 51
    +1
    Quote: Mikhail3
    Can anyone explain to me why a modern aircraft needs a flashlight at all? Maybe you still need to attach a couple of shafts and an arch with bells? Honestly, sometimes routine stupidity just freezes.
    In modern aircraft, general electronics failure is absolutely fatal. In terms of flying qualities, this is just a sledgehammer, and that's it. As such, the electronics must be relied upon as the main system. Therefore, it is logical to make an armored capsule with a lodgment for the pilot, positioning it so as to withstand overloads as much as possible.
    Sitting holding onto a handle is a stupid anachronism. The pilot must lie with his arms at his side and the controls must be adapted to this position. The picture must be formed by a couple of dozen video cameras located throughout the body. Cameras should work on different principles (at the moment, at least four can be distinguished), communication with the control center should also be organized in different ways. Thus, it is necessary to form a multi-picture of a real all-round view.
    All this weird ancient junk that is being snatched up to us as "latest technology" looks ridiculous and terribly stupid.

  30. Outsider
    Outsider 4 January 2022 14: 32
    +1
    Quote: Ka-52
    The American pilot is also largely "blind" when it comes to the view of the rear hemisphere.

    Comrade Legate would have already made up his mind. Either he believes that the era of close combat, when it was important to have visual contact with the enemy, has passed and now everything is decided by long-range explosive missiles, then it suddenly became important for the pilot to see what was behind him.

    - For a good fighter, where there is a high probability of victory in dogfight (close maneuver combat with cannons), good visual discretion is desirable. They strive for her... And how does anyone succeed - the second question ... But for someone, but for the F-35 this moment is not relevant: firstly, this is not originally an airplane for dogfights, and secondly, it has a DAS and the pilot is completely you do not need to twist your cervical vertebrae in order to be able to detect targets, aim and fire backward up to 180 ° with short-range missiles, the same AIM-9X, or Python-5 in Israel.