Military Review

Burned-out illusions worth 22 billion rubles

155

We had illusions again. This time at the Severnaya Verf plant, in the Bolshaya Turukhtannaya harbor. There, as you know, for eight years they tormented the "Provorny" corvette, which was supposed to join the ranks of the Pacific Ocean ships at the end of next year. fleet.


Perhaps, if the corvette was intended to serve on the Black or Baltic Sea, the bitterness would be less. But the loss will now affect the Pacific Fleet, for which each new ship is not just important - it is vital.

However, many words have been said about this. And we will talk more.

But now we are talking about an emergency with a ship, which is unlikely to go into operation in the next seven to eight years. No matter how they swagger at Severnaya Verf, their optimism is very, very dubious.

Anyway, all история with "Agile" it smells really ... burned.

So, the almost finished corvette burned down. The amount of damage was 22 billion rubles or, if you prefer, 300 million dollars. The amount, of course, is enormous. Even for the budget of a country richer than Russia, this is a very significant loss. And even more so for us.

So what happened?

Burned-out illusions worth 22 billion rubles

A fire has occurred. The blaze very quickly engulfed the superstructure, made of modern multilayer composite materials based on fiberglass and carbon fiber.

That is, the antenna mast superstructure was made of materials that, in principle, should not have burned. But they were burning.

The saddest thing is that in the bowels of this very antenna-mast superstructure, the electronic "stuffing" of the ship was mounted - the "Zaslon" radar complex. Well, or perhaps it was edited, now it's difficult to say something on this topic.

The main thing here is that for all eight years that a corvette has been built at Severnaya Verf (there is simply no other word, for such a period, even less, in the United States they are building an atomic strike aircraft carrier), we were told what advanced materials are used in the construction, how these the materials perfectly scatter the beams of enemy radars and practically do not burn.

True, numerous photographs taken by eyewitnesses of the incident indicate that it was the “non-combustible” command cabin and the antenna-mast superstructure that blazed very brightly. The fire was observed by half of St. Petersburg, including our readers, who will not let the lie that fire and smoke were visible from afar.

For five hours the fire destroyed the fruit of eight years' work. And 22 billion rubles.

But it already became possible to see what the fire had done to the ship, which was about to go to mooring trials.

Yes, representatives of Severnaya Verf were optimistic in their assurances, but in fact the ship was practically destroyed.

Antenna-mast device collapsed inside the hull, it is necessary to find out the extent of damage to the main power plant.


The missile silos were completely burned out.


What happens inside below deck level is still unknown, but it is clear that first the fire, and then the water that was used to extinguish the fire, did not bring anything good.

Having rummaged in earlier publications, I saw that the cost of the ship was estimated at 30 billion rubles. If you count, then 22 out of 30 is almost 75%. That is, in fact, three quarters of the cost.

The question arises: what could have survived at all? "Miraculously" saved the hull of the ship? But the body is the easiest to build. Although the leaders of Severnaya Verf assure that the hull was not damaged, the superstructure is easy and simple to dismantle. And they say that there was no equipment in the superstructure. And that the manufacturer "Sredne-Nevsky Shipbuilding Plant" will easily and naturally build a new superstructure. Negotiations are already underway.


Everything looks too rosy. And questions arise. Especially - regarding the fact that there was nothing in the superstructure. Somehow this does not fit with the way the deckhouse and superstructure burned. Either they still contained equipment and hundreds of meters of wires and cables, or it turns out that the incombustible plastic walls were burning so dashingly.

One more question: at whose expense is the banquet?

Again "lighten" the budget by some 22 billion? Yes, it is very simple. But first, it seems to me, specialists and experts of the Investigative Committee should work out, who are simply obliged to determine the culprit. And only then it will be possible to conclude contracts for the construction of a new cabin and the like.

At the expense of the culprit.

In general, questions of the investigation must be given a great deal of attention. And not only at what is happening at the "Severnaya Verf", but also at the Sredne-Nevsky NW, which is called "the leader of the domestic composite shipbuilding". This is not the first fire for the "leader".

Until today, in 2015, the minesweeper Georgy Kurbatov was on fire at the Sredne-Nevsky plant. A fire broke out on board, which seriously damaged the hull. The fire damaged the skin of both sides above the upper deck, the forecastle deck, part of the upper deck flooring with a reinforcing set, and other connections between the 10th and 90th frames. The timing of the construction of "Georgy Kurbatov" was revised. Laid down in 2015, the minesweeper was handed over to the fleet only in 2021.

And this, too, was a ship built entirely from non-combustible materials. However, the area of ​​the fire was more than 600 square meters, and it was necessary to extinguish it with the help of aviation.

By the way, in the case of Georgy Kurbatov, the SNSZ management also made very optimistic statements. Say, nothing of the kind was burning there, some kind of "auxiliary materials" and scaffolding. And, since there was nothing to burn on the ship at all, nothing burned.

However, laid down in 2015, "Georgy Kurbatov" was supposed to go into operation in 2017. The minesweeper, with a displacement of only 890 tons, in fact, a small boat, was completed right up to 2020 and commissioned in 2021.


Photo: "Sredne-Nevsky Shipyard"

If the fire did not cause much damage to the fiberglass ship, what did they do with it, doubling the construction time exactly?

It would be very useful if our investigators and experts would find out whether the same non-combustible materials from which warships are now built are really non-combustible?

And another question: what will happen to "Agile"?

A battleship that did not get into service, did not fire a single shot, now it may have to be written off. And the fact that the leadership of the United Shipbuilding Corporation is silent, who has the last word in this matter, speaks volumes.

For example, that the OS decided to wait for the results of the work of investigators and experts.

Perhaps this is the only way out of this situation. Agree, the behavior of the management of Severnaya Verf is somewhat ... strange. It's okay, now we will make a new wheelhouse, the main thing is that the hull is intact, we will fix everything. We would not have much time and billionaires. And everything will be in openwork.

USC is silent. Indeed, it is worth the wait, because the actual death of a built ship just before testing starts is serious. And, if the investigators see in the incident something more than negligence that led to the fire, then there will be nothing supernatural in this.

And only when there is a clear decision on the ship, another question will arise. What to do with another ship, with the first corvette of the series, "Thundering", which has already arrived at its duty station in the Pacific Ocean?


Photo: Press Service of the Northern Fleet

The corvette is already in service, which means that it will be used as it should be for a warship. As far as can be assigned such functions to the "Thundering", given that its wheelhouse and antenna-mast superstructure with the "Zaslon" radar are made of exactly the same "non-combustible" materials as those of the "Provorny".

How much can you trust the composite materials produced at the Sredne-Nevsky plant tomorrow? And how much more will we have to pay for the illusion that everything is fine with us and “has no analogues in the world”?

There are many unpleasant questions, which may be followed by equally unpleasant answers in the very near future.
Author:
155 comments
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  1. Alien From
    Alien From 27 December 2021 05: 29
    +32
    Roman, Roman, it is really bitter to watch this shame.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 27 December 2021 05: 50
      +9
      What we have we do not store ... having lost we cry.
      This is the situation in general throughout the country, starting from the very top, we live one day.
      Counting at random and tightening the nuts to the limit also helps little in business.
      Maybe this is our tradition ... to destroy and burn to ashes either the country or the ship, and then tear your hair out and look for the guilty.
      When will this sadomasochism to oneself end? what
      1. Civil
        Civil 27 December 2021 09: 55
        +55
        A thief in the warehouse usually sets fire to this warehouse.
        1. lucul
          lucul 27 December 2021 11: 15
          -47
          "A thief in the warehouse usually sets fire to this warehouse."

          I wonder if the investigation confirms that this is a planned sabotage of the West? Skomorokhov will apologize or not? )))
          1. Rostislav
            Rostislav 27 December 2021 14: 56
            +40
            And the essence of the sabotage is that after reciting the mantra by the Western shpien the incombustible materials of the felling turned into flammable?
            1. lucul
              lucul 27 December 2021 15: 11
              -21
              "And the essence of the sabotage is that after the mantra was recited by the Western shpien, the incombustible materials of the felling turned into flammable?"

              The bottom line is that everything there could be generously poured even with napalm (no repair work was carried out that day), and these non-combustible materials from which the superstructure is made, after they reach 800 ° C temperature, they burn just like that.
              The main thing is to help them reach 800⁰С.
              1. Letun
                Letun 27 December 2021 16: 14
                +25
                Quote: lucul
                The bottom line is that everything there could be generously poured at least with napalm

                Our spies ... sorry ... scouts, they pour everything with a newbie, and theirs is napalm. Spies - they are belay
              2. shahor
                shahor 27 December 2021 17: 54
                +34
                Quote: lucul
                and these non-combustible materials from which the superstructure is made, after they reach 800⁰С temperature, they burn only in this way.

                Then the sabotage was committed earlier, at the design stage, when the adversary agent designed the construction of a superstructure from materials with low (insufficient) fire resistance. And the scoundrels-saboteurs of their expert group gave a positive opinion on the project. And the commission of the customer, entirely consisting of seasoned saboteurs, approved the project.
                1. lucul
                  lucul 28 December 2021 07: 41
                  -9
                  “Then the sabotage was committed earlier, at the design stage, when the adversary agent designed the construction of a superstructure from materials with low (insufficient) fire resistance. And the villains-saboteurs of their expert group gave a positive opinion on the project. approved the project. "

                  Uh-huh, and all of them, by a "strange coincidence", will belong to the same exiled nation)))
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. TANKISTONE
                TANKISTONE 30 December 2021 22: 36
                0
                lucul (Vitaliy)
                The bottom line is that everything there could be generously poured at least with napalm (no repair work was carried out that day)
                Repair work on a ship under construction? Do you know something?
            2. Eroma
              Eroma 28 December 2021 19: 09
              +2
              Everything has been clear for a long time, they have already told everything: the man who brought the paint is to blame! The cabin was not burning! The paint was burning, and the ship burned down with the paint! USC has nothing to do with the incident; it is necessary to determine for what purpose the peasant put the paint there, the working version: he dug it, what would then drag it to the dacha, he wanted to paint the roof! From nervous tension, he lit a cigarette, thought that the paint is not flammable! lol
          2. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 27 December 2021 16: 09
            +4
            Quote: lucul
            if the investigation confirms that this is a planned sabotage of the West? Will Skomorokhov apologize or not? )))

            I don't know about Skomorokhov's apology. I know for sure that even if a sabotage is discovered, they will not tell us about it ... The practice is ...
          3. Charik
            Charik 28 December 2021 23: 36
            -2
            blame the Americans for everything - they set fire to a laser from a satellite - as in some past summer - they fried the central European part of Russia from space - through mirrors - there were fires everywhere wassat
          4. Charik
            Charik 28 December 2021 23: 37
            0
            please treat with understanding - it burned out
        2. bayard
          bayard 27 December 2021 22: 40
          +34
          There is no doubt that this is arson. The question is, who ordered this arson?
          But this is not the main thing, the main thing is that the USC categorically does not want to build warships and is sabotaging the state defense order in every possible way. And as far as I remember, deliberate disruption of the GOZ = State Treason. And conclusions must be drawn quickly, and punishment must be harsh.
          And of course - confiscations. The confiscation of the assets of the top management throughout the entire vertical of the corporation is corporate responsibility.

          Now I would like to draw your attention to another detail of this event, since the figures in the article are indicated - the COST of this not too serious boat.
          30 billion rubles!
          That's $ 400 million.
          For what ?
          With such and such combat capabilities, weapons, seaworthiness and autonomy?
          And now we look and compare:
          Chinese Navy frigate type. 054A smile
          EXPORT price - $ 186 million
          Feel the difference? 400 million and 186 million, respectively?
          With VI - twice as much.
          With autonomy - twice as much (30 days versus 15).
          Much better seaworthiness.
          At a higher speed - 29 knots versus 25 knots.
          With significantly greater travel range.
          Carry a lot more weapons if possible.
          And such a ship is being built not 8 years, and not 12 ... but 2,5 years from laying to delivery.
          Did you feel the difference?
          I think then they understood and who should be imprisoned with complete confiscation, including confiscation from household members. Losses have already amounted to at least hundreds of billions of rubles. Only for this type of ships.

          And now about what to do.
          In military shipbuilding:
          - to stop the laying and construction of such ships at the shipyards of St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad.
          - To complete the ordered series for the Amur plant with delivery to the Pacific Fleet, but consider replacing the composite superstructure with an aluminum one (steel will break the metacentricity.
          - For the needs of the Pacific Fleet, in view of the inability of the USC to cope with the responsibilities assigned to it, order in China 8 PLO frigates based on the frigate type. 054A with retrofitting and armament at the shipyard in Vladivostok.
          The technical appearance of the PLO frigate:
          - hull and power plant, as well as general ship systems remain the same as the original,
          - instead of PU SAM "Calm" in front of the wheelhouse (TLU for 48 missiles), install from 2 to 4 UKSK for 16 - 32 KR, PLUR, anti-ship missiles, GZUR,
          - bow gun 100 mm. take the caliber from the corvette 20380,
          - on the waist - between the wheelhouse and the hangar, install the "Redut" short-range missile launcher (the same as on 20380) in an amount of up to 48 pcs.
          - "Packet-NK" torpedoes and anti-torpedoes.
          - the composition of the radar is the same as planned for installation on the upgraded BOD "Admiral Vinogradov".
          - SAC must be borrowed from the corvette of pr. 20380 with the obligatory presence of BUGAS.
          - on the sides there are two "Duet" aircrafts.
          ... I would like to expand the hangar by two helicopters, but here we need to look at the technical feasibility of such, in any case the dimensions allow it.

          The VI will probably grow up a little, and this is the presence of a rather large bulb of the under-keel GAS, which will reduce the speed to 27 - 28 knots. This is permissible.
          Negotiations must begin immediately (right after the New Year holidays), especially since the production facilities of the shipyard that built these frigates are now idle, the slipways are free.
          We will try to negotiate the shortest terms of the order.
          What could be the cost of such an PLO frigate for the Russian Navy?
          I think the top bar for the cost will be $ 350 million.

          Now look at this fire-hazardous misunderstanding - corvettes 20380 and 20385, compare and tell - is it worth it?

          If the experience of fulfilling this contract turns out to be positive, then expand the order for the Black Sea Fleet (6 units) and the Northern Fleet (6 units).

          Unpatriotic, some will cry?
          By no means, most of the cost of such an ASW frigate will fall on Russian suppliers - the composition of weapons and combat equipment. From China there will be hulls, general ship systems, power plants and the installation of Russian equipment (in addition to that which will be installed in Vladivostok).
          Or is Rakhmanov's "patriotism" sweet to anyone else?

          - But what about our shipyards, will we leave without work? - the more discerning will cry ...
          No, our shipyards in St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad will be puzzled by one, but great task - to build ships of the Oceanic zone. And of course I'm talking about the 22350M project. All shipyards in Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg (in the latter, after thorough cleaning of the topmanagemant) should be released from all non-core orders and all slipways and slipways suitable for this should be used for the construction of the Super-Gorshkovy.
          And when the Amur Shipyard finishes the series of corvettes entrusted to it (in order not to break the working rhythm of the enterprise, the series must be completed ... but with aluminum deckhouses). then he, too, can connect to the "All-People's Business" - the construction of OZ ships.
          1. Osipov9391
            Osipov9391 28 December 2021 00: 25
            +10
            Such projects and a smaller vessel should be given to private owners. The timing and culture of production there are much better. I know what I'm saying.
            In my city, a private trader opened the production of large boats and pleasure yachts. Everything from scratch. And he takes recruitment seriously. And they do not steal there (what to steal from themselves?)
            But this will not happen in our country. Therefore, they divide everything into their own.
            Where, for example, is the Lazarevskaya shipyard near Sochi? The same USC wants to demolish it and sell the land for building on the seashore.
            So why do we need all these USC, UAC and so on? Competition should be between private companies and state-owned factories, for sure.
            1. bayard
              bayard 28 December 2021 01: 52
              +20
              Quote: Osipov9391
              So why do we need all these USC, UAC and so on? Competition should be between private companies and state-owned factories, for sure.

              In the 90s, private traders stole the CVDs into their own property and brought them to complete collapse and degradation, and when they wanted to give them an order, it turned out that they could no longer do anything. It was then that it was decided to return these enterprises to the state. property under the wing of a state corporation, through which funds should be injected for restoration, modernization and development, as well as control.
              Everything would be fine if there was control over the corporation itself.
              "Friends - EVERYTHING
              The rest - the LAW "- this is the slogan of the modern Russian Federation, as well as in late Rome.
              On the eve of the fall.
              If moral decay has swallowed up the "elite" ... the affected organ must be replaced.
              1. Osipov9391
                Osipov9391 28 December 2021 02: 11
                +6
                So I gave you an example when a private trader started everything himself, did not buy anything and did not pull from the state. And it is doing quite well in the civil yachts and boats market.
                And if you give him an order from the fleet, for example, he will make a patrol boat or something like that. If you make a profit, it will strengthen production. Farther and farther.

                I dealt with state manufacturers of electronics (microcircuits) and private that they themselves founded everything from scratch.
                The latter work great. For example, they gave me free samples of processors at a price of tens of thousands of rubles apiece.
                To promote your products. And it works for them.

                These were all enthusiasts who started from scratch. But everything is done very slowly.
                Where is the CP-10 plane and the Rysachok? They were not allowed to do so, the tests were suspended.
                And the UAC in this segment does not have ANYTHING at all and will never have.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 28 December 2021 04: 06
                  +5
                  Quote: Osipov9391
                  so I gave you an example when a private trader started everything himself,

                  This is completely different.
                  If a person has created his own business, is a specialist himself, knows all production processes, suppliers, market conditions, knows the price of risk and adventure ... And USC (and UAC too) was created to save enterprises from the hands of crooks who simply stole them from the state, plundered and did not know what to do with them further.
                  Of course, the enterprises were restored, but ... it looks like someone else, besides the state, pays them.
                  1. Osipov9391
                    Osipov9391 28 December 2021 18: 22
                    +5
                    There is a large market for ocean cruise ships. Different sizes. Here a large amount of work for private traders could be done by hundreds of contractor enterprises all over the country and even the CIS. If you do this.
                    But now the situation is such that it is easier to put a nuclear reactor on a large ship. They (Nizhny Novgorod reactors) and Kaluga turbines are of all types and sizes.
                    At the same time, there are practically no other power plants in Russia, as well as there is no civil shipbuilding.
                    This niche is now occupied by European shipyards.
                    And yes, already in the late 80s there were problems with diesel engines. They were taken from Finland, then to the GDR. And it's limited.
                    They tried to put nuclear reactors on tankers and container ships. But they did not have time.

                    Only the container ship "Sevmorput" in Kerch at the Zaliv plant was made by the end of the 80s. He worked all over the world, even at the equator. Which is very good.
                    And he could go to Antarctica himself, which no nuclear-powered icebreaker will do.
                    Then they put him on a joke and almost cut him. Then they decided to restore it and now it is used.
                    There are no such ships in the world.

                    So I once talked with private traders who build ships, then they say that the idea is correct. Especially for large gas carriers, tankers, cruise ships.
                    Nuclear reactors.
                    But according to the law, they do not have the right to build them - only the state can do it.
                    Wildness of course ...
          2. provergatel
            provergatel 28 December 2021 18: 05
            0


            I give! Don't thank.
        3. Machito
          Machito 28 December 2021 10: 14
          +10
          Quote: Civil
          A thief in the warehouse usually sets fire to this warehouse.

          You don't need to steal anything: everything is stolen before us. (FROM)
          Obviously, the ship was set on fire to cover up the theft. For this, you need to put up against the wall. And with this money, someone will buy a house in the Canary Islands, and dump it on permanent residence.
          1. Charik
            Charik 28 December 2021 23: 46
            -2
            why in the Canary Islands-on the Black Sea-disco-yes in the Urals in the bunker to collect mushrooms
        4. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 28 December 2021 10: 45
          +5
          There are many unpleasant questions, which may be followed by equally unpleasant answers in the very near future.
          Oh, come on, they will give someone a "lamb in a piece of paper" and that's it. If there is a lot, then they will share and some hard worker will be guilty. Or a short circuit or a crazy meteorite. In the end, we have capitalism in our country, pay and it is free, not a totalitarian state, where people are imprisoned for violations of the law.
        5. Barberry25
          Barberry25 28 December 2021 12: 08
          -2
          then it turns out that last year in the United States set fire to 2 aircraft carriers and one UDC? also because of theft?
          1. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 28 December 2021 22: 08
            -1
            Quote: Barberry25
            then it turns out that last year in the United States set fire to 2 aircraft carriers and one UDC? also because of theft?

            Huh! Tse is different! Tse freedom-loving fires at the beams of democracy ... lol
        6. boni592807
          boni592807 30 December 2021 19: 36
          0
          Civil (Vadim), December 27, 2021 09:55 AM, NEW - "... The thief in the warehouse usually sets fire to this warehouse ..."

          Alas, you are right, and write off an opportunity and "share" something with a partner ... bully
          But, for all the G ... the situation, there are also positive sides belay . It was not in vain that they paid such a price.
          I explain if the super-superior materials, work, equipment, etc. were really not of high quality, then, when accepting this vessel, what would happen to the crew and the consequences of using IT in operational (combat) conditions. belay
          A question to the entire "Chain" from those who control them from the customer's side, to THEIR who control the FSB ...
    2. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 27 December 2021 05: 52
      +17
      the impression is that from the "epoxy" all add-ons ... TFR-to work. very unpleasant sediment.
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 27 December 2021 06: 10
        +33
        Quote: Aerodrome
        the impression is that from the "epoxy" all add-ons ... TFR-to work. very unpleasant sediment.

        РџР »Р ° РјСЏ РѕС ‡ ень Р ± С‹ стро РѕС… РІР ° тило РЅР ° дстройку, РІС‹ РїРѕР »РЅРµРРЅРСРРѕРРРѕРРЅССРѕРРРСРСРРРЅССРѕРРРРРРЅССРѕРРРРРРРЅССРѕРР ·Р ·РРРРРЅРЅСЂСРѕР ·Р … РєРѕРјРїРѕР · РёС‚РЅС ‹С… РјР ° териР° Р» РѕРІ РЅР ° РѕСЃРЅРѕРІРµ стеклопл Р ° стиРРѕРІ Р ° СѓРѕРіР "РѕРРѕРІ Р ° СРѕРІР.
        РўРѕ есть, Р ° нтенно-РјР ° С ‡ товР° СЏ РЅР ° дстройкР° Р ± С ‹Р" Р ° РІС ‹РїРѕР" ненР° РёРµРРРР ° иеРлов, РєРѕС‚РѕСЂС ‹Рµ РІ РїСЂРёРЅС † РёРїРµ РЅРµ РґРѕР» Р¶РЅС ‹Р ± С‹ Р »Рё горетС. РќРѕ горели.

        Р РЅРµ смотрите "РІРѕРµРЅРЅСѓС РїСЂРёС'РјРєС" перед СЃРЅРѕРј. Кто это СЃРєР ° Р · Р ° Р ", РіРґРµ, РєРѕРіРґР ° ??? РљР ° РєРѕР№ Р ± С ‹С‚Р ° Рј С € РёРєР ° СЂРЅС‹ Р№ СѓРіР »РµРїР» Р ° стик РЅРё Р ± С ‹Р", СЃРІСЏР · СѓСЋС РёРј РІСЃС‚СРРР Р ° С'тся РёР »Рё СЌРїРѕРєСЃРёРРЅС‹ Рµ РёР »Рё РїРѕР» РёСЌС „РёСЂРЅС‹ Рµ СЃРјРѕР »С‹. Рђ РІРѕС ‚РѕРЅРё-то РіРѕСЂСЏС‚ только РІ РїСѓС‚С. РўР ° Рє С ‡ то РІС ‹РїСЂР ° РІС‹ - РёР · СЌРїРѕРєСЃРёРґРєРё, РїСЂРёС ‡ С'Рј РІ состР° РІРР РїР ° РєРтР° РѕРµС 'РїР ° РєРтР° РѕРµС' РїР ° кетР° РѕРµС 'РїР ° РєРµ% S
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 27 December 2021 06: 19
          +26
          Quote: NDR-791
          Р РЅРµ смотрите "РІРѕРµРЅРЅСѓС РїСЂРёС'РјРєС" перед СЃРЅРѕРј. Кто это СЃРєР ° Р · Р ° Р ", РіРґРµ, РєРѕРіРґР ° ???

          РґР ° РЅРµ СЃРјРѕС‚СЂС С‚Р ° РєРѕРµ ... РїРѕР »СѓС ‡ Р ° ется:" РєРѕСЂРѕР "СЊ то -РіРѕР" С ‹Р№!" РєР ° Рє Р ± СѓРјР ° Р¶РЅС ‹Рµ РїР ° кеты РєРѕЂР ° Р ± Р »РёРєРё, стоимосССС РІ РјРёР» Р »РёР ° СЂРґС‹. С ‡ то РїСЂРѕРёСЃС ... РѕРґРёС ‚?
          1. Bashkirkhan
            Bashkirkhan 27 December 2021 06: 51
            +9
            Quote: Aerodrome
            what's happening ?

            Fire in Kaohsiung

            Date of the article with photo: October 14, 2021 at 6:05 am EDT
            Firefighters battle the blaze in Kaohsiung, southern Taiwan, early Thursday. (Kaohsiung Fire Bureau / EPA-EFE / Shutterstock)
            Firefighters fight a fire in Kaohsiung, southern Taiwan, early Thursday morning.
          2. Letun
            Letun 27 December 2021 16: 16
            +3
            Quote: Aerodrome
            РґР ° РЅРµ СЃРјРѕС‚СЂС С‚Р ° РєРѕРµ ... РїРѕР »СѓС ‡ Р ° ется:" РєРѕСЂРѕР "СЊ то -РіРѕР" С ‹Р№!" РєР ° Рє Р ± СѓРјР ° Р¶РЅС ‹Рµ РїР ° кеты РєРѕЂР ° Р ± Р »РёРєРё, стоимосССС РІ РјРёР» Р »РёР ° СЂРґС‹. С ‡ то РїСЂРѕРёСЃС ... РѕРґРёС ‚?

            But invisible. Well, it doesn’t burn yet ...
      2. paul3390
        paul3390 27 December 2021 10: 26
        +36
        What will happen if God forbid such a battle ship gets a real ammunition ?? belay And we also laughed at the small Britons when they drowned a frigate with a missile that did not explode in the Falklands .. what
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 27 December 2021 13: 13
          +10
          And you should probably wonder which is better:
          A ship that is poorly visible on the enemy's radar, but which can be burned like a haystack. Or
          An armored ship, which is clearly visible on the radar, but it is not easy to sink it either. And it's not a fact that armored is more expensive.
          1. bayard
            bayard 27 December 2021 21: 27
            +11
            Quote: Bad_gr
            An armored ship, which is clearly visible on the radar, but it is not easy to sink it either. And it's not a fact that armored is more expensive.

            The armor on the ship VI in 1800 would have looked epic, but it's time to end this "stealth" fashion. And return to normal, fundamentally non-combustible materials - ship steel. It will be much cheaper, faster (!) And more reliable. And the ship and the locator, and the seeker, the anti-ship missile system will see without any problems - stealth for the ship is a fake.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 27 December 2021 22: 30
              +5
              Quote: bayard
              The armor on a ship VI in 1800 would look epic ...
              Local reservation, when the most important nodes are covered with additional protection. Will add vitality to the ship.

              Like the Eagles had, but adjusted for the ship's displacement.
              "......... TARKR project 1144" Orlan ", the first warships after WWII, in the design of which a sufficiently developed local reservation, PTZ and a double bottom were laid. mm (below the waterline - 100 mm) and from the side of the deck with 70-mm armor. Information combat posts and the main command post, covered with 70-mm side walls with a 100-mm roof and traverses. Aft along the sides 75-mm, the roof of the helicopter hangar 70- mm, ammunition and aviation fuel storage, tiller compartments of 50 mm each ..... "
              1. bayard
                bayard 28 December 2021 01: 09
                +4
                Quote: Bad_gr
                Quote: bayard
                The armor on a ship VI in 1800 would look epic ...
                Local reservation, when the most important nodes are covered with additional protection. Will add vitality to the ship.

                On ships of the class corvette, frigate, and even up to and including a destroyer, direct, albeit local, booking (with armor plates) is meaningless and harmful. Another thing is Kevlar lining (to keep the fragments) and "Kevlar armor" on destroyers / frigates are quite applicable.
                And no reasonable armor on such ships will withstand a direct hit from anti-ship missiles. So - only from the fragments.
            2. 911sx
              911sx 27 December 2021 23: 47
              +8
              It is from steel. Remember how Shaffield's aluminum superstructure burned.
              1. bayard
                bayard 28 December 2021 01: 11
                +3
                I remember very well.
        2. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 28 December 2021 10: 56
          0
          What will happen if God forbid such a battle ship gets a real ammunition ??
          A new frigate will be laid, a new cut will begin. Many migrants are brought to the Russian Federation. Trained Russians should burn on fire-safe ships! For capital and profit.
      3. Barberry25
        Barberry25 28 December 2021 12: 09
        -3
        this ship was under construction - there was more than anything to burn out of building materials.
    3. 28st region
      28st region 28 December 2021 14: 14
      +1
      Imagine the completion of the building in the end and with what mood the sailors will serve on this ship. Knowing how the non-combustible burns.
    4. vkfriendly
      vkfriendly 29 December 2021 02: 59
      0
      This is not a shame - this is a crime. It's time to introduce punishment for damage to state. property with raster article. Someone from the military-industrial complex and at the expense of the state made himself a good feeding trough.
  2. Sadok
    Sadok 27 December 2021 06: 04
    +33
    my friend participated in the extinguishing. "let it burn out, then let us shed" such a principle. and this is understandable: to climb on reconnaissance in "it is not clear where" is to risk the lives of the soldiers. and there it burned well and there was no point in fighting, only to protect
  3. Andrey NM
    Andrey NM 27 December 2021 06: 10
    +53
    Рђ кто ответилР· Р ° утопл РµРЅРЅС ‹Р№ РґРѕРє РІ Р РѕСЃР» СЏРєРѕРІРѕ? Р — Р ° "РљСѓР · РЅРµС † РѕРІР °", РєРѕС‚РѕСЂС ‹Р№ неиР· РІРµСтно РєРѕРіРґР ° отремонтирЃСРµС? Р — Р ° пожР° СЂ РЅР ° "Р • РєР ° теринР± СѓСЂРіРµ"? Р — Р ° СЂР ° Р · Р »РёС‚С‹ Р№ РЅРµС „тепродукт РІ РќРѕСЂРёР »СЊСЃРєРµ? РќР ° Р№РґСѓС ‚РјРµR» РєРёС… стреР»РѕС ‡ РЅРёРєРѕРІ?
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 27 December 2021 10: 20
      +18
      More than ever I want to quote one modern classic: "Where is the planting? Planting - where?" Something is somehow wrong with the personal responsibility of highly efficient owners in our spiritually strong state ..
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 28 December 2021 11: 08
        +5
        Something is somehow wrong with the personal responsibility of highly effective owners in our spiritually strong state, for some reason ..
        Okay to you! It's okay with that. Highly efficient owners are therefore highly efficient, because bring effective materials into high spheres, in FRS dollars and euros, and they are all happy. And nobody will do anything about it. They will draw a beautiful picture of the world in the media, feed the people to the people, and he will eat it. And then no one will simply defend this country. The "kitchen gardens" were taken away, the state for which it was "a shame" was taken away. Everything more or less complicated is being dragged from China.
      2. Barberry25
        Barberry25 28 December 2021 12: 10
        0
        in this case, the question is different: USC claims that no equipment was mounted on the ship, and Roman, according to the classics, “I don’t believe it, everything was, everything burned out!” .. truth without facts
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Letun
        Letun 27 December 2021 16: 18
        +10
        Quote: sustav75
        Blame the friends at the helm of all these disasters! And friends Vova does not give up!

        That's for sure. For all its merits, this drawback cannot be denied.
        1. tech3030
          tech3030 27 December 2021 18: 22
          +12
          Yes, he has no merits, no need to be deceived.
          1. restless
            restless 28 December 2021 07: 56
            +7
            I, too, once believed him, but when he raised the retirement age, although he swore that he would not, I stopped believing our guarantor, I completely stopped ...
        2. sustav75
          sustav75 27 December 2021 18: 49
          +10
          The dignity was subsided with every year of the reign. Especially in the last two terms. He started out dashingly, yes.
    3. Doliva63
      Doliva63 27 December 2021 17: 49
      +7
      Quote: Andrew NM
      Рђ кто ответилР· Р ° утопл РµРЅРЅС ‹Р№ РґРѕРє РІ Р РѕСЃР» СЏРєРѕРІРѕ? Р — Р ° "РљСѓР · РЅРµС † РѕРІР °", РєРѕС‚РѕСЂС ‹Р№ неиР· РІРµСтно РєРѕРіРґР ° отремонтирЃСРµС? Р — Р ° пожР° СЂ РЅР ° "Р • РєР ° теринР± СѓСЂРіРµ"? Р — Р ° СЂР ° Р · Р »РёС‚С‹ Р№ РЅРµС „тепродукт РІ РќРѕСЂРёР »СЊСЃРєРµ? РќР ° Р№РґСѓС ‚РјРµR» РєРёС… стреР»РѕС ‡ РЅРёРєРѕРІ?

      Well, as usual. The price of "stability", however.
    4. shahor
      shahor 27 December 2021 18: 06
      +10
      Quote: Andrey NM
      Рђ кто ответилР· Р ° утопл РµРЅРЅС ‹Р№ РґРѕРє РІ Р РѕСЃР» СЏРєРѕРІРѕ? Р — Р ° "РљСѓР · РЅРµС † РѕРІР °", РєРѕС‚РѕСЂС ‹Р№ неиР· РІРµСтно РєРѕРіРґР ° отремонтирЃСРµС? Р — Р ° пожР° СЂ РЅР ° "Р • РєР ° теринР± СѓСЂРіРµ"? Р — Р ° СЂР ° Р · Р »РёС‚С‹ Р№ РЅРµС „тепродукт РІ РќРѕСЂРёР »СЊСЃРєРµ? РќР ° Р№РґСѓС ‚РјРµR» РєРёС… стреР»РѕС ‡ РЅРёРєРѕРІ?

      The unfortunate pilot who damaged the plane in an accident is fined millions of rubles, condemning his children to poverty. And then, the aircraft carrier is on fire, the corvette burned down ... Yes, we must not put it on our necks, feed and water them. To recover from the effective managers of the USC in full, to confiscate, by a court decision, in order to compensate the state for the benefit of the state, mansions and merci, squeezed out by overwork. Arrest accounts. And put, they will be released on parole in a couple of years. And again everything will burn.
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 28 December 2021 11: 15
        +5
        To recover from the effective managers of the USC in full, to confiscate, by a court decision, as compensation in favor of the state, mansions and merci, squeezed out by overwork. Arrest accounts. And put, they will be released on parole in a couple of years. And again everything will burn.
        Their fathers and mothers will absolutely not understand you. Just think, krovinochka ruined the budget of some "bandustan"! It’s not out of malice, but by accident. Why should he be deprived of his favorite yacht? !!!!!
        But seriously: "The raven won't turn off the raven's eyes."
    5. Seal
      Seal 28 December 2021 00: 02
      +2
      And for the bottling near Novorossiysk, which was initially announced that 200 liters had spilled, which polluted 200 sq.m. water area of ​​the sea. But it turned out that they polluted 80 square kilometers of the sea, which means that about 400 tons have spilled out.
      Otherwise, at first, the CPC-R employees bought a Ferry in hardware stores and forced the tug crews to walk back and forth across the sea and pour this Ferry into the sea.
  4. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 27 December 2021 06: 16
    +36
    Р СЃРєРѕР "СЊРєРѕ РјС‹ РµС ‰ Рµ РґРѕР "жны Р ± удем Р · Р ° РїР »Р ° тить Р · Р ° РёР» Р »СЋР · РёРё того, С З С‚Рѕ Сѓ РЅР ° СЃ РІСЃРµ прекрР° СЃРЅРѕ Рё В "РЅРµ имеет Р ° РЅР ° Р "РѕРіРѕРІ РІ РјРёСЂРµВ"?

    РњРЅРѕРіРѕ. РџР »Р ° С‚РёС‚С Р ± удем ежегодно Рё РІ СЂР ° Р · РЅС‹ С… отрР° СЃР »СЏС…. РР "ементР° СЂRЅР ° СЏ РїРѕРєР ° Р · СѓС… Р ° Рё Р" РёР · РѕР ± Р "юдство РѕРєРѕРЅС ‡ Р ° тел СЊРЅРЂ СРёРРСёСёРРѕ СЃРёРРРСёРЅРѕ СЃРё Р'С "СЊРЅС‹ Р№, деР"РѕРІРѕР№ РїРѕРґС… РѕРґ Рє РїРѕСЂСѓС ‡ РµРЅРЅРѕРјС РґРµР» Сѓ.
    R'.R. Р ›РµРЅРёРЅ РіРѕРІРѕСЂРёР":
    РЎРѕС † РёР ° Р »РёР · Рј - это строжР° Р№С € РёР№ СѓС ‡ ет, Рё контроль Р · Р ° СѓС ‡ етоР°, РґРЅР, РёРЅРј, РёРЅР · РѕСЂ Р · Р ° контролеР, Рё проверRєR ° РЅР ° РґР · РѕСЂР °, Рё Р ° РЅР ° Р» РёР · проверРРёР ° Р РёРёРё РёРРё РРё РёРё РёРРё РРё РёРёРё ° Р ± Р »СЋРґРµРЅРёРµ Р · Р ° ревиР· ией.

    Рђ С З С‚Рѕ предлР° РіР ° СЋС‚ сегоднС? RџRѕS "RoRіRoR · Rј, RoRіRЅRѕSЂRoSЂRѕRІR ° RЅRoRμ S,RμS ... RЅRѕR" RѕRіRoS RμSЃRєRoS ... ‡ † RїSЂRѕS RμSЃSЃRѕRІ RЅR ° RїSЂRѕRoR · RІRѕRґSЃS,RІRμ, RЅR ° SЂSѓS € RμRЅRoRμ RџRџR 'Ryo RўR' PI RїRѕRіRѕRЅRμ P · P ± RїSЂRoR ° C < R "СЊСЋ ...
    РљР ° РєРѕР№ контроль РѕСЂРіР ° РЅРёР · РѕРІР ° РЅ РІ РѕСЃСЃРёРё сегоднС? Р "РґРµ эти РїСѓР ± Р" РёС ‡ РЅС ‹Рµ В" РїРѕРРёВ ", РѕР ± СЏР · Р ° РЅРЅС‹ Рµ РїСЂРёР · РІР ° ть? Что тР° Рј РЁРѕС… РёРЅ Рё его РєРѕРјР ° РЅРґР ° РјРѕР¶РµС ‚предл РѕР¶РёС‚С РґР »СЏ Р РѕССРёРё? РњРѕР¶РµС ‚Р ± С‹ ть, РїРѕСЂР ° СЂР ° Р · РѕРіРЅР ° ть СЃРѕСЋР · СЌС‚РёС ... С… Р ° РїСѓРі, РґР »СЏ РєРѕСІРѕРѕ‚СССРРµ Рё РЅРё РІ С ‡ РµR »РѕРІРµС ‡ еской жиР· РЅРё, РЅРё РІ труде РЅР ° Р ± Р» Р ° РіРѕ РћС‚РµС ‡ РІРѕ РћС‚РµС ‡ РІРѕРѕРІРѕРІРѕРѕРѕРѕРІСРѕРѕРІСРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРІСРѕРѕРІРѕРѕРѕРѕРІРѕРІР °, РРѕРѕРІРѕРІРѕР ° "нении СЂР ° Р ± РѕС‚ Рё предостР° РІР "яемы С… СѓСЃР "СѓРі? Р "Р ° РІР ° йте вернС'Рј РћR'RҐRЎRЎ ... Р" Р ° РІР ° йте РІРѕР · РѕР ± РЅРѕРІРёРј РІРЅРµR Р ± СѓРґСѓС ‚В" РєРѕС € РјР ° СЂРёС‚СВ "недоР± росовестны Р№ Р ± РёР · РЅРµС. РџСѓСЃС СЌС‚Рѕ Р ± СѓРґРµС ‚РЅРµ СЃРІРѕСЂР ° РїСЂРѕРІРµСЂСЏСЋС ‰ РёС… РѕС‚ СЂР ° Р RєRѕRЅS,SЂRѕR "SЋ P · SЃRѕR ° F ± F" SЋRґRμRЅRoRμRј S,RμS RЅRѕR ... "RѕRіRoR№ RЅR ° RїSЂRѕRoR RІRѕRґSЃS,RІRμ Pd · C ‡ RoSЃS,RѕS,Rμ RїSЂRμRґRїSЂRoRЅRoRјR ° S,RμR" SЊSЃRєRѕR№ RґRμSЏS,RμR "SЊRЅRѕSЃS ‚Ryo ...
    РќРµSѓR¶RµR "Ryo S ‡ РµR" Рsвеку, РѕР ± Р »РёС ‡ С'РЅРЅРѕРјС РїСЂР ° РІР ° РјРё Рё РѕР ± СЏР · Р ° РЅРЅРѕЃЂРіРРСРРё РРЅРѕЃЂРіРРР † , РЅРё СЂР ° Р · Сѓ Р · Р ° РґРІР ° десяткР° Р »РµС‚ РЅРµ Р · Р ° С… отелось РїСЂРѕРІРµСЂРёС‚С Р» РёС ‡ РЅРѕ ° Рј ему втирР° СЋС ‚В" РґСЂСѓР · СЊСЏ-РѕСЂРґРµРЅРѕРЅРѕСЃС † С ‹В"? РќРµ РїСЂРµRґSѓRїSЂRµR¶RґR ° СЏ Р · Р ° РїРѕР »РіРѕРґР °, Р ° просто РІР · СЏС‚С РєРѕРјР ° РЅРґС РёР · РЂРРР РРґС РёР · РЂРРР РРґС РёР · РЂРРРћ РРС РёР · РРРРћ R R "Рё РІ Р РѕСЃСЃРёРё его Р · Р ° РЅСЏР» Р ° РіРѕСЂР ° Р ± РѕР »РµРµ неотл РѕР¶РЅС ‹С… РґРµР"?
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 27 December 2021 07: 10
      +12
      The Anti-Theft Department of Capitalist Property?
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 27 December 2021 08: 32
      +15
      Soviet Union 1982, the local thermal power plant, where my future parents, who have just married, work, a couple broke into the change house, 11 people were cooked. Has anyone been punished? EMNIP did not even jail anyone. So you lie, but do not lie about accounting and control. Well, how was it taken into account and controlled, for example, a gas pipeline, a hole in which led to a burnout of a train and 500+ people, I hope you don’t need to remember? And the point was not socialism or capitalism there, but the unwillingness of people to fulfill their official duties, the pressure dropped in the pipe, we will not check where the leak is, we will just give more gas.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 27 December 2021 17: 35
        +13
        Quote: EvilLion
        So you lie, but do not lie about accounting and control.

        I’ll ask you politely ... You’ll poke it into the mattress! There, the principles of control are spelled out in Russian, and not a direct omission as a result of hammering a bolt on PTB and PPB. I also have different kinds of examples, but tell us about a pipe that just burst because of nothing in the yard ...
        Nobody says that there were no accidents under socialism. But not for the reasons that they occur almost every day today.
        Control your speech, I suggest it kindly ...
        1. Storog dvornik
          Storog dvornik 27 December 2021 21: 05
          +7
          About poking into the mattress, you just noticed, the victims of the exam do not catch up in another way ...
          They have the USSR, only made galoshes - Putin himself said ...
          1. gsev
            gsev 31 December 2021 20: 40
            +1
            Quote: Storog Dvornik
            They have the USSR, only made galoshes - Putin himself said ..

            Perhaps Soviet galoshes were the most massive footwear that the USSR exported abroad. In 1960-1970, Afghan, Iranian and Turkish peasants appreciated this shoe. Under Putin, the modern shoe industry never came close to the commercial success that designers and manufacturers of galoshes have achieved.
        2. Gnefredov
          Gnefredov 28 December 2021 00: 13
          +2
          EvilLion wrote on emotions, it can be seen from the text. And you just like that, seriously, authoritatively and with a run over your own status. Bronze before our eyes))
    3. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 27 December 2021 16: 45
      +11
      Quote: ROSS 42
      and the unified Russian service for control over the observance of technologies in production and the purity of business ...

      What highly profitable place, for someone, you propose to create.))))) Do you think someone will work there honestly?
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 27 December 2021 17: 38
        +7
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        What highly profitable place, for someone, you propose to create.))))) Do you think someone will work there honestly?

        I think that in our country no place will correct the situation. Here, even ordinary young users strive to show their ambition. Apparently in the yard he gets snot on a regular basis or from his wife with a rolling pin.
        1. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 27 December 2021 17: 52
          +14
          Quote: ROSS 42
          I think that in our country no place will correct the situation.

          Yes, of course, you can talk a lot about "a bloody totalitarian scoop that does not produce anything but galoshes," but it was under him that the majority of the country's population lived in abundance comparable to developed caps. countries. Without systemic changes, the result, in any case, will be negative.
          1. provergatel
            provergatel 28 December 2021 19: 42
            +2
            And precisely because of this "prosperity" of the majority of the population, this population has hammered a bolt on the destruction of their own country, in anticipation of jeans, chewing gum and Coca-Cola?

            You would tell tales about "prosperity" in the Union to minors who did not find this "prosperity", as, incidentally, the Union itself.

            The union destroyed a whole range of problems. But, in my opinion, there were two main ones:

            1) Complete degradation of the elites. When the usual phrases about the triumph of socialism / communism continued to be uttered, but they themselves no longer believed in it. And those who listened to these phrases on duty knew that the speakers did not believe in what was being said. And the speakers knew that the listeners knew it. But everyone just kept pretending. A kind of theater of absurdity, the size of 1/6 of the land. And the Soviet elite, especially the party elite, essentially lived in the position of a kind of nobility. They had much more rights, the Criminal Code of the USSR was little applied to them (only if their own, from the elite, did not decide to condemn someone for the amusement of the crowd), in material terms they lived much better than the rest of the population (all these special distributors, the ability to buy imported things / products, the ability to travel abroad). Why not nobility? And the rest of the population saw all this perfectly. And it correlated with the speeches made by the same people that everyone in the country is equal.
            Moreover, the elite wanted to use all these benefits openly, without hiding behind hypocritical speeches that the first secretary (no matter which of the party structures) is equal to a simple locksmith / collective farmer / worker / engineer. And they did nothing when they saw the country starting to slide towards the abyss. Although they could. But they believed that in the new conditions they would have the same privileges (or even much more), and practically no responsibility and restrictions would remain.
            2) Total deficit and lack of basic things. The supply categories were not invented from a good life.
            And an ordinary person, no matter how the communists tried to bring his new species out for 70 years, still wanted a normal life for himself. So that the necessary things just go and buy in the store, and not "get it", in order to forget this stupid double meaning of the normal Russian words "brought" and " ended earlier than the line). And this, in many respects, was the reason that millions of people in those fateful days did not take to the streets to defend their country, but simply watched on TV as it disappears.

            There were many good things in the Union, but also many disadvantages. It is not worth idealizing him, as well as demonizing him.
            1. alekseykabanets
              alekseykabanets 28 December 2021 20: 59
              0
              Quote: oprovergatel
              And precisely because of this "prosperity" of the majority of the population, this population has hammered a bolt on the destruction of their own country, in anticipation of jeans, chewing gum and Coca-Cola?

              Could you substantiate this very controversial statement of yours? Apparently you have forgotten that time, forgotten about the promises of "socialism with a human face", about "pluralism", about the promises to fight against "party privileges"? Did anyone say that he was going to make paid medicine, paid education, unemployment? You are either too young and get information from TV, or deliberately mislead members of the forum. And yes, I will remind you that at the referendum, the overwhelming majority of the country's population spoke in favor of preserving the USSR.
              Quote: oprovergatel
              You would tell tales about "prosperity" in the Union to minors who did not find this "prosperity", as, incidentally, the Union itself.

              So I just found the prosperity of ordinary people in the USSR, more than that, I had the opportunity to compare it both with the inhabitants of the socialist countries and with the inhabitants of the capitals. countries, in particular Germany and Japan, I repeat, it was comparable, in some ways better, in some ways worse, but comparable.
              Quote: oprovergatel
              And the Soviet elite, especially the party elite, essentially lived in the position of a kind of nobility. They had much more rights, they were little covered by the Criminal Code of the USSR

              What are you talking about? Even how? Yes, you don't even have to go far, I lived in Armavir, the wife of the first secretary taught social science, when he went on a spree with a nurse and divorced his wife, he was immediately turned off from the first secretaries so that he would not set a bad example. People who then lived will give you enough examples of this. A complaint in the city committee solved many problems. As for the major figures, there are quite a few cases related to them, read at least the documents on the "cotton case". I do not dispute that the Brezhnev Soviet Union was full of shortcomings, but the game that you write does not go through any gate.
              Quote: oprovergatel
              And this, in many respects, was the reason that millions of people in those fateful days did not take to the streets to defend their country, but simply watched on TV as it disappears.

              And they didn’t understand that she was disappearing, at what point it was necessary to leave? The people believed in their state too much .. I'll tell you more, there are still a lot of people who see in the Russian Federation not the state of the antagonist of the USSR, but its successor.
              Quote: oprovergatel
              There were many good things in the Union, but also many disadvantages. It is not worth idealizing him, as well as demonizing him.

              The trick is that the USSR, oddly enough, is different. Lenin's and Stalin's USSR, they are not identical, and certainly not identical to the Khrushchev USSR or Brezhnevsky. You see, the USSR is the first state with a socialist economic formation; of course, quite a few mistakes were made. However, it must be remembered that the period of the formation of capitalism in Europe lasted for about five hundred years, five hundred years of practically continuous wars. The period of the formation of feudalism lasted much longer, and the same is associated with wars and blood.
  5. Konnick
    Konnick 27 December 2021 06: 21
    +12
    АжиотР° Р¶ СЃ этими компоРитР° РјРё ...
    Рто достР° С‚РѕС ‡ РЅРѕ С… СЂСѓРїРєРёР№ Ryo РіРѕССС ‡ РёР№ РјР ° териР° Р ". РЇ РЅРµ С… РѕС ‡ Сѓ Р »РµС‚Р ° ть РЅР ° суперпупер РњРЎ-21 СЃ РєРѕРјРїРѕР · итны РјРё РєСЂС ‹Р» СЊСЏРµС. ПожР° СЂ РґРІРёРіР ° теля Рё СЃР ° РјРѕР» РµС ‚Р ± еР· РєСЂС‹ Р »Р °. ТитР° РЅ РІСЃРµ РјРѕРµ, РЅРѕ С… РѕС‚СЏС ‚РІСЃРµ СѓРґРµС € РµРІРёС‚С ...
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 27 December 2021 07: 22
      +8
      Quote: Konnick
      Titanium is all mine, but they want to make everything cheaper ...

      There will never be any commercial companies built of titanium, and duralumin will burn out no worse than carbon fiber, even better.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 27 December 2021 09: 11
        +2
        There will never be any commercial companies built of titanium, and duralumin will burn out no worse than carbon fiber, even better

        Where did you come up with this?

        Titanium alloys are the main material for airliners.

        It is curious that its share in Airbus aircraft is significantly higher than that of its competitor, Boeing, which began to actively use composites and combinations of composites with titanium alloys.

        Note - the latest model of the company - Airbus A350 contains only 14% titanium, and Boeing hardly uses it in its latest model.

        We are talking about the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, a wide-body twin-engine jet passenger aircraft made of composites.

        So fly on this dreamliner yourself. The main power elements are made of titanium and in commerce, and duralumin is used for cladding.
        For the Apaches, they tried to make blades from a composite, but during a trial firing from small arms, they scattered to pieces.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 27 December 2021 09: 17
          +9
          Quote: Konnick
          Airbus A350 contains only 14% titanium

          Do you think that 14% of the weight means something in terms of fire protection? You are wrong, titanium is mainly used for fasteners, piping and chassis elements.
      2. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 27 December 2021 11: 11
        +9
        And how titanium burns! Magnesium only competitor.
  6. Che Prague
    Che Prague 27 December 2021 06: 37
    -2
    Nice battleship !!!. Burned down completely. It would really be better if all the aggregates are about ... Of iron, it doesn't burn so much.
    And here the other day with the wings in the MC-21 they reported.
    What is going on?
    Disposable equipment for disposable people. That's what's going on.
  7. avia12005
    avia12005 27 December 2021 07: 03
    +20
    Stalin:
    - Comrade Beria, deal with these fires at the USC ...
    Beria:
    - We've already figured it out, Comrade Stalin ... They are all agents of British, Japanese and German intelligence there ...
    Stalin:
    - You did it right, Lavrenty ...
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 27 December 2021 07: 17
      +24
      There was recently a conversation of smart people about Putin's May decrees. About how every time after the elections he announces the May decrees, but his subordinates do not fulfill them (they shift the deadlines to the right ... laughing ). So one comrade asked directly: "I wonder what Comrade Stalin would say if someone did not follow his orders?"
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 27 December 2021 08: 43
        +4
        Quote: ROSS 42
        I wonder what Comrade Stalin would say if someone did not follow his orders?

        Well, it depends who the culprit would be! Voroshilov, who corrupted the Red Army, was left out of business, and Stern, for Voroshilov's shoals, was shot! The expression "we do not abandon our own" did not appear today!
        And by the way, Vasilich, what do you think ... who is the real culprit of the tragedy on the first Soviet underwater atomic ship and who in reality was named the culprit ????
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 27 December 2021 11: 17
          +11
          Quote: Serg65
          And by the way, Vasilich, what do you think ... who is the real culprit of the tragedy on the first Soviet underwater atomic ship and who in reality was named the culprit ????

          I have no right to talk about what I know only by hearsay and from publications. In any case, the cause of technical accidents either bears the full name of the operator or the designer who put such a defect into the product.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 27 December 2021 12: 18
            +1
            Quote: ROSS 42
            In any case, the cause of technical accidents either bears the full name of the operator or the designer who put such a defect into the product.

            In this case, the accident bore the name of the commander and crew of the K-19, although the culprit was a shipyard welder!
            And, with your permission, the question ... yesterday you again campaigned for Platoshkin ... but if you remove politics and personal opinion ... is Platoshkin not like the new Gapon ... what do you think?
            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 27 December 2021 13: 00
              +4
              Quote: Serg65
              And, with your permission, the question ... yesterday you again campaigned for Platoshkin ... but if you remove politics and personal opinion ... is Platoshkin not like the new Gapon ... what do you think?

              I won't talk about Gapon and won't compare him with Platoshkin - you never know what the classics of Marxism-Leninism wrote about the history of Ingushetia. The mature grain and sound thoughts of Platoshkin are based on historical materialism. His characterization of the capitalist system and Russian capitalism in particular is real and true. He has a wide program. There are many supporters and literate people in the movement (CSN) who can take key government positions. Experience in diplomatic work, knowledge of the work of the state mechanism, life detachment and courage (and, most importantly, hair lol ) puts him among the preferred candidates for the presidency.
              ===========
              Which confuses me. V. I. Lenin wrote:
              Any revolution is worth something only if it knows how to defend itself ...

              I don’t understand why the NNP decided that the Russian oligarchy would give up power voluntarily according to the law and, according to the law, would hold elections for the branches of government?
              He is against the death penalty. I am a supporter (under certain conditions: the election of judges, a certain corpus delicti and the presence of people's assessors or jurors).
              He is for a progressive scale of personal income tax, but with a maximum rate of 20%. I - prefer the maximum rate of 40-45%.
              We have common views on the salaries of officials.
              Platoshkin differs from Gapon in that he proposes a peaceful transfer of power, based on legal norms. Russia has exhausted the limit on revolutions. But winning elections in a bourgeois country is a utopia. Power changes the rules from election to election. In addition, the alliance with the Communist Party, headed by GAZ, which deceived the people's trust in 1996, causes discontent in me both with the quality of the leader of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation and with the personal characteristics of party members who are unable to resist temptations.
              I have no negative attitude towards the Platoshkin family. And Glazkova A.E. showed great energy when working in the DG. Perhaps one of the best deputies of the State Duma.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 27 December 2021 14: 28
                +3
                Quote: ROSS 42
                The mature grain and sound thoughts of Platoshkin are based on historical materialism. His characterization of the capitalist system and Russian capitalism in particular is real and true. He has a wide program. There are many supporters and literate people in the movement (CSN) who can take key government positions.

                I beg your pardon, but I have no rose-colored glasses in front of my eyes, so I will omit this opinion ...
                Quote: ROSS 42
                Diplomatic experience

                Here I have a bunch of questions, especially about Houston!
                Quote: ROSS 42
                puts him among the preferred candidates for the presidency.

                Maybe, but I am very interested in the financial component of the Platoshkin project! Vasilich, where is the money from? And what is more, they are not small ... just being a candidate for the State Duma from Khabarovsk pulls the green light ...
                Quote: ROSS 42
                I don’t understand why the NNP decided that the Russian oligarchy would give up power voluntarily according to the law and, according to the law, would hold elections for the branches of government?

                Couldn't it be here ... who pays the girl, he dances her ...? Those. again I return to the question of modern Gapon! Back in the 80s I was taught that .. if stars are lit in the sky, then someone needs it! Who is promoting Platoshkin? And the most important question ... why? Change power? If so, which way? I don’t know if you remember Gorbachev’s coming to the post of General Secretary and the then enthusiasm of the Soviet population in this regard, I remember that very well ... Comrade. officers, the moment is ripe for inevitable reforms of the Soviet socialist economy, the demand for these reforms comes from the people! For this comrade. Gorbachev, as the General Secretary of our party, as the head of our state, decided to lead this popular movement and go to meet the aspirations of the people ....! The words, actions (at the first stage), the messages were just wonderful ... but the result?
                Quote: ROSS 42
                Glazkova A.E

                I can't say anything about Platoshkin's wife ... time will tell.
                1. Ross xnumx
                  Ross xnumx 27 December 2021 15: 01
                  +2
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Maybe, but I am very interested in the financial component of the Platoshkin project! Vasilich, where is the money from? And what is more, they are not small ... just being a candidate for the State Duma from Khabarovsk pulls the green light ...

                  Platoshkin has the final video on the elections in the Khabarovsk Territory. CSN sponsors many of the channel's subscribers on YuoTube, especially during direct lines. Do not hesitate to write, call, ask. The channel has 650 subscribers.
                  I realized that Platoshkin is a "Kremlin project" after a trumped-up case against him, an annual house arrest and defeat in civil rights (a ban on participation in elections before and after 2024) ... not a frail project like this going nowhere.
                  So don't worry too much about money. Ask any blogger and they will tell you how much they pay for an advanced channel.
                  With the same success, any party can be attributed to the Kremlin project - all those who passed in the State Duma receive subsidies.
                  1. Storog dvornik
                    Storog dvornik 27 December 2021 23: 20
                    +4
                    Platoshkin, this is a head, but there are a number of points:
                    The fact that the NNP did not serve in the USSR Armed Forces, in those days when everyone, without exception, served (Roma Abramovich, as an example!), We attribute to study at the elite MGIMO, whose students were not called up for urgent special armor ...
                    As the NNP himself boasted, at the end of the university, he had the right to choose a country to work as a diplomat ...
                    And as a "staunch supporter of socialism No. 2" he chose non-socialist ones - the DPRK, SRV, Cuba, China, at worst one of the countries of Eastern Europe or the revolutionary states of Latin America ... No, the PNP asked for the very nest of the bourgeoisie, in the FRG .. ...
                    NNP - his entire diplomatic career as an official of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, before entering the preferential state pension, he faithfully served the authorities of the bourgeois Russian Federation, and personally obeyed all anti-Soviet leaders of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Shevardnadze, Kozyrev, etc.
                    And during his service, about Socialism 2.0, he never stuttered ...
                    ----------------
                    About how he used to sell potatoes in his youth, he does not give out in him a fighter / Bolshevik, but a huckster / speculator, although it is not surprising, the name Platoshkin speaks by itself, perhaps, only there are not enough pays ...
                  2. Serg65
                    Serg65 28 December 2021 07: 22
                    +3
                    Quote: ROSS 42
                    The channel has 650 subscribers

                    Vasilich, the most popular channels are entertainment ... it reaches 20 million views ... that's +/- 14-16 thousand dollars! I apologize a lot ... how much did the election campaign of Mr. Platoshkin and Mrs. Glazkova cost?
                    Quote: ROSS 42
                    Platoshkin - "the Kremlin project"

                    Why exactly the Kremlin? Zyuganov, and Khodorkovsky does not turn up his nose! Rashkin is so generally with crime on one leg. You never know the oligarchs offended by the bloody Morder in the country ... Fridman, Gusinsky ... but the same Pugachev? You yourself wonder why the NNP has a soft program for conquering power and further structure of the state! Although for me, all of his program points are ... ordinary populism, in reality not feasible!
                    1. Third district
                      Third district 3 January 2022 13: 18
                      0
                      For me, the most important mystery is how Platoshkin appeared on the central TV channels. And at first, I just didn't get out of there. After all, it is practically impossible now, for a person of his level and position, in today's society. Well, a former employee of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, well, literate, well-read, knows how to speak, a good orator. Yes, such people, you can find a lot if you want ... So someone found him for this role. There is such an opinion, I am not saying anything.
              2. Wertgan
                Wertgan 27 December 2021 18: 42
                0
                Funny. Platoshkin is just a direct agent of the State Department. Another Navalny. He is being prepared to replace Navalny.
                1. lelik613
                  lelik613 31 December 2021 20: 34
                  0
                  And others will not be allowed into this clearing. Read Pelevin about trick 22. There is a casting of State Department agents.
              3. minus
                minus 27 December 2021 20: 02
                +6
                You know, with a lot of what he says, he agrees. With a lot, but far from everything. And what has been irritating lately is the manners. I, I, yayayayaya. I always come first with him. Well, and the inability to conduct a dialogue. Constantly interrupts irrelevantly.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 27 December 2021 10: 47
        +1
        Quote: ROSS 42
        So one comrade asked directly: "I wonder what Comrade Stalin would say if someone did not follow his orders?"

        I will not say about Comrade Stalin, but Comrade Beria, in the history of the CPV in 1944, moved the timeline to the right by six months. smile
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 27 December 2021 11: 23
          +6
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Comrade Beria in the history of the CPV in 1944 shifted the deadline to the right by six months.

          Comrade Beria can be forgiven for this because he shifted to the right (and by a lot) the threat of nuclear war.
          And, in general, this bad habit needs to be eliminated. It is time to return to the methods of scientific planning with the principles of economic incentives for the direct participants in the production process, and not to worry about the prosperity of various “drivers' hands”.
      3. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 27 December 2021 11: 20
        +14
        Would survive. Maybe a heart attack would have worked, but he took into account the real situation.
        He survived a complete disruption of the shipbuilding program, the program of artillery rearmament, the monstrous quality of new tanks and aircraft for the sake of increasing the number of products. And there were no landings (the Kirov Plant was awarded the Order of Lenin for KV).
        There was only one thing he could not stand - blatant lies, instead of an objective analysis of the reasons and additions.
        And all our leaders, from Peter the Great to Brezhnev, faced their "May decrees". They tried to either stop it, or take it into account, or even give up on everything.
      4. your1970
        your1970 27 December 2021 18: 05
        +2
        Quote: ROSS 42
        So one comrade asked directly: "I wonder what Comrade Stalin would say if someone did not follow his orders?"

        We know what ...
        Itself apparently personally cut off the head ...
        Or Lavrenty Palych - "to the basement of the scoundrel and shoot ..."
        Yes?
        There was such a tovarisch Zhigarev ...
        Judging by the memoirs of Golovanov, he did not follow Stalin's instructions, he lied in the eyes ...
        Was he beaten to death in the "basements of the kgovaya gebny"?
        Well, maybe they gave at least 25 years ?? ...
        Yeah, schaz ...
        In the midst of complete horror in the fall of 1941 - for lying IN THE EYES (!!!!) Stalin was left as a general and sent to the Far East ... everything ...
  8. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 27 December 2021 07: 28
    +11
    I don’t believe carbon fiber, it’s too expensive, and by the way it’s fire hazardous, weight reduction is not what is needed here, not a tea clipper, it means fiberglass, since the fiberglass itself does not burn, polyester resin burned, and why was the smoke not black then? and the polyester is all mixed with fiberglass, it should not burn so well, no better than wood, we saw strange flashes, ... in my opinion, all the signs of arson with the bringing of highly combustible materials to the ship, no one would paint in winter, where from there tons of paints?
  9. The comment was deleted.
    1. Non-fighter
      Non-fighter 27 December 2021 11: 30
      +2
      it would be my will, I would have cut everything in the fleet long ago, larger than 5000 tons, and half smaller

      This is called giving up the initiative. Sooner or later a large fleet will arrive (we have no allies with this approach) and that's it, here's an ultimatum or a salvo of 5k + missiles.
  10. Terran
    Terran 27 December 2021 08: 27
    +10
    1. In all this stream of emotions, the only sensible question is the question of the declared "incombustibility" of the composite superstructure. And here the questions are not only to its manufacturer SNSZ, but also to the 369 VP and to the academics with itchy hands from the First Institute of Shipwreck through which they push a lot of things.
    2. A question to the plant as responsible for everything, including the operability of the ship's technological support systems under construction (TOS according to OST 5R.0718-2003), including temporary fire. If it worked as expected and the person on duty reacted, then there are even more questions to the superstructure in paragraph 1 above.
    Otherwise:
    - The superstructure was completely empty, not that there was no equipment, there were no cables except the TOS (temporary shelter for the construction of lighting, heating, fire alarms, telephony, etc.)
    - even in the case itself, little was done, and only a few basic mechanisms were loaded. They didn’t manage to load something, they didn’t have a contract for something else, but they didn’t allocate money for something else.
    - The delay in construction was primarily caused by the change in the project by the Solutions, and the allocation of money from DOGOZ for them.
    - The amount of 22 billion was sucked out of the thumb for a word of mouth. Firstly, this cannot be according to the above (little volume and little work performed) Secondly, troubleshooting after a fire and flooding (from flooding of premises by firefighters) is not a quick matter and will not be completed soon.

    You need to reason not with emotions, but with logic based on at least some knowledge about the subject.
    1. Soldatov V.
      Soldatov V. 27 December 2021 11: 13
      +14
      After the formation of the ship's hull, before installing or covering the main deck, almost all equipment is installed - main engines, generators, cable routes, pipelines. Remains small openings for builders and small equipment. After that, the tightness of the underdeck space is checked by pumping air of a certain pressure with monitoring the pressure drop. When installing the superstructure, dimensional equipment is immediately installed that is wider than the doorways. Judging by the photographs, the ship was full of all equipment, except for combat weapons. About painters. The amount of paint must not exceed the amount of area required for painting during one work shift. Leftover paint must not be left on board. All hot work should be completed one hour before the end of the shift, with observation of possible smoldering and spilling of the place of work. All garbage is stored in containers outside the ship (not even on deck).
      All this is described in the admission dress. The whole system, the rules for building a ship are written in blood and shipbuilding experience.
      About composite materials. There are no non-combustible materials in nature. The material has the ability to resist fire. If this is excellent within 20-30 minutes, the crew, the team will have time (must) extinguish the fire on alarm. soldier
      1. Terran
        Terran 27 December 2021 15: 19
        +1
        After forming the hull of the ship, before installing or covering the main deck
        - This is about ideal ships in ideal factories with ideal designers, with ideal suppliers with an ideal MO and its DOGOZ, which allocates money.
        But in reality, and so everywhere:
        1. The equipment appears on the order when money is allocated for it, then it is contracted by the plant, then it will be manufactured and delivered by contractors, and when the order is prepared for its installation (foundations, cutouts, technological eyes, crane beams, runners, etc. .) and provided that it itself will not interfere with work and there is a low probability of damage during work.
        2. On each project, technological hatches on detachable joints are provided for loading / replacing large-sized equipment during construction and further repairs.
        3. In addition to them, the chief technologist of the plant develops technological cutouts for the time of construction (gas-cutting, then welded) in decks, bulkheads and even sides, including below the waterline. Based on a real timetable for the construction and delivery of equipment.
        4. Electrical work begins and ends later than all other work (except for the sewing of premises by builders, but this is a small weight in percentage of readiness).
        5.
        before installing or covering the main deck
        - even ideally, electrical work will be excluded from this list, at least along highways. The main lines going to the superstructure (GKP, hardware, aggregate, etc.) are the main part of all trunk cables. The cable is not a pipe, it cannot be cut to the deck, and there will be a superstructure - we will hold out. They are either pulled or not pulled. These are a few units can be coiled with an approximate margin. And they always try to pull the main lines first in order to lay the "fat men" down the route, immediately check the filling of the cable boxes and many more working moments. You can, of course, and through the back - start with local cables, but this is not for everybody.
        6.
        Judging by the photos, the ship was full of all the equipment.
        - You made such a conclusion from what photos?
        7.
        All garbage is stored in containers outside the ship (not even on deck)
        - It seems to me that you have never been on the ships under construction.

        Fires in our shipyards occur regularly and frequently. But they are not advertised and no statistics are kept - they put it out with a fire extinguisher, or threw the burning rags overboard into the water, and okay. Neither the worker, nor the foreman, nor the foreman, nor the builder, and, moreover, the head of labor protection and the person responsible for safety, does not need this. If there is a precedent - there is a guilty person, and there everyone is guilty along the chain, and if without consequences, then who needs it, wash dirty linen in public and arrange hemorrhoids for themselves.
        The most common causes of fires:
        - Welding works. Do not control what is on the other side (paint / insulation / lining) of the bulkhead that is being welded. Or too lazy to work as it should - they will tear off 100 mm of insulation from the seam "And it will go soooo!"
        - They smoke. They drive, get fined, but still smoke. Almost always such irresponsible least paid hard workers. The contingent there is often difficult to educate.
        - Killed TOC networks. All these temporary power grids on the order are the business of the shop electricians of the plant (and not the electrical installation organization dealing specifically with the steamer). And they are always on a terrible starvation ration and the chief engineer (who is involved in providing TOC, if he has not pushed it down or to the side) simply indicates to collect them from what is. And there are rusty and leaky switchboards for the twentieth time altered with faulty automatic machines, and the cables are tortured all in electrical tape .... As a result, short circuit and automatic devices do not work.
        But these are all questions for the plant.
        And the main question is about the survivability of our corvettes with such composites.
        1. Soldatov V.
          Soldatov V. 27 December 2021 19: 44
          +3
          For some reason, my answer did not go to the site about four hours ago. I will try again.
          In shipbuilding he worked as a deputy. chief builder of ships for safety at the shipyard.
          More than once he stopped the construction of ships until the comments were eliminated.
          On the first point. There is in shipbuilding the concept of a NETWORK SCHEDULE of ship building. I think you know what it is or take an interest on the Internet.
          For 2,3,4,5 points, 50 percent is correct.
          On point 6. From work experience.
          On point 7. In addition to the construction of ships, the navigator-mechanic, assistant captain of all groups of ships, starmech of the dredger, worked in the river fleet.
          What you describe about fires, smoking, welding, about temporary power grids is sheer nonsense. Wherever I have been at other CVDs I have not seen this anywhere else.
          At the plant you will not relax with the daily presence of a fire inspector, an inspector of the RIVER REGISTER.
          I wrote about the survivability of composite ships in the comments above.
          I think the crews, crews of corvettes are well aware of the properties of composites and know how to extinguish them in case of fire. soldier
          1. The comment was deleted.
      2. flicker
        flicker 27 December 2021 15: 22
        0
        The whole system, the rules for building a ship are written in blood and shipbuilding experience.
        Interestingly, and the rules do not provide for the installation of temperature sensors and smoke detection sensors?
        1. Soldatov V.
          Soldatov V. 27 December 2021 16: 09
          +3
          I don’t know how it is now. Bit I'd like. Plus surveillance cameras with wireless data transmission to firefighters, the FSB, and the prosecutor's office. soldier
          1. flicker
            flicker 27 December 2021 16: 48
            +3
            Plus surveillance cameras with wireless data transmission to firefighters, the FSB, and the prosecutor's office.
            You can't do without them now. Only now we are more obsessed with the curecodization of the population. With such zeal, yes a fire safety control system at enterprises of particular importance.
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 27 December 2021 22: 23
      +1
      Quote: Terran
      In all this stream of emotions, the only sensible question is the question of the declared "incombustibility" of the composite superstructure.
      and when using non-combustible resins .... Today, fiberglass is used in many industries. This is due to its main advantages.

      Strength and lightness of the material. Thanks to this indicator, fiberglass products have a lower mass, which ensures ease of installation, operation and maintenance;
      Durability without changing the specified properties even under the influence of aggressive substances and media. Operation of products made of material is possible in a wide range of temperatures;
      Reduced material costs. This is possible due to the fact that the material replaces more expensive construction materials, and the production of fiberglass products does not require complex equipment;
      Resistance to deformation, mechanical damage, decay;
      Non-flammability (provided that fire-resistant resins are used);
      Excellent dielectric properties. The material reduces the risk of a short circuit in the wiring;
      The possibility of obtaining a product of almost any color (gelcoat coating) https://composite-prof.ru/stati/osnovnye_dostoinstva_stekloplastika/

      shirpotrebovskiy fiberglass (50 percent fiberglass, 50 percent polyester resin), is hardly combustible (G1) Hard-combustible - these are substances and materials that can burn in air when exposed to an ignition source, but are unable to burn independently after removing it.

      Source: https://fireman.club/inseklodepia/gruppa-goryuchesti/
      When copying materials, reference to the source is required © fireman.club
  11. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 27 December 2021 08: 49
    -3
    specialists and experts of the Investigative Committee should work,
    Well right now! They are already running ...
  12. Esaul
    Esaul 27 December 2021 10: 29
    +5
    With such a leadership of crooks and thieves, no enemy is needed - they themselves will plunder and destroy everything.
  13. Non-fighter
    Non-fighter 27 December 2021 10: 30
    +8
    Nearby there is an article about the burnt out "Knight". It seems to me alone that we are heading towards Tsushima at full speed?
  14. Glagol1
    Glagol1 27 December 2021 11: 25
    +8
    Yes, Roman, that's right. But irresponsible managers cannot be expelled from warm chairs, corruption is circular. We are waiting for the next fire, or explosion, or drowning, or ... in general, the death of another long-term construction project, on which they have already stolen 1000 gold toilets.
  15. faiver
    faiver 27 December 2021 12: 06
    +5
    Well what can you say? - All is well, beautiful marquise, all is well as never before ... hi
  16. dimasik-nl
    dimasik-nl 27 December 2021 12: 17
    +3
    In Russia, only fear can defeat the mess and laxity. Fear for your life. And not just a worker, but a director.
  17. ivan2022
    ivan2022 27 December 2021 13: 37
    -12
    Yoshkin cat, at one time the whole state was profiled "on time" - and you mean a corvette .... a speck of dust in Space is your corvette. Many write themselves in the comments. even about this; "Yes, and figs with him, with this state ... it was not correct and actually not like that ...." After this nationwide assessment, it is even somehow strange to lament over such an insignificant trifle as a corvette ...

    I remember a case, they wrote that in the Far Eastern forest a mushroom picker found a clearing with two hundred tanks. The Ministry of Defense then explained that "you never know what ... they just forgot" ... I believe that the Lord God has long ago made the final diagnosis and made the final decision not only on the corvette, but on everything else and everything else ...
    1. Terran
      Terran 27 December 2021 15: 45
      +1
      Why are you writing comments on this article?
      The theme of the burned out ship. You, apparently, are not an expert in this subject, and your tongue itches a lot ... "open everyone's eyes."
      Be so kind as to express your revealing dull melancholy in related articles. I am sure that there you will meet many sad, deep-thinking philosophers with whom you will find a common language.
  18. bar
    bar 27 December 2021 14: 09
    +4
    only then will it be possible to conclude contracts for the construction of a new cabin and the like.
    At the expense of the culprit.

    Futile hopes. A welder with a painter, who are appointed switchmen, do not earn that much ...
  19. flicker
    flicker 27 December 2021 14: 45
    +2
    specialists and experts of the Investigative Committee must work out, who are simply obliged to determine the culprit. And only then it will be possible to conclude contracts for the construction of a new cabin and the like.

    At the expense of the culprit.

    Well, in general, a question arises for the government of Mishustin.
    Is it doing anything other than compulsory vaccination and total digitalization?
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 27 December 2021 15: 03
      -1
      Of course, 3 skins from the people pulls.
      1. flicker
        flicker 27 December 2021 15: 27
        -5
        Of course, 3 skins from the people pulls.
        Well, yes, just like in Israel.
  20. ifdru74
    ifdru74 27 December 2021 15: 10
    +4
    What can be assumed on the hot, so to speak, footsteps?
    1. Glaring violations of safety, such as conditional welding and painting at the same time. The guilty will not be found;
    2. Judging by how brightly the superstructure burned - the possible theft or non-delivery of valuable radio-electronic equipment. They are not even looking for the guilty.
    The result is that the ship will be rebuilt again, it is not clear when. The guilty will be appointed from among the foremen.
  21. oldzek
    oldzek 27 December 2021 15: 12
    0
    but I did not understand why the author shouted, until he immediately lied: after all, the Northern Shipyard has nothing to do with the Big Turukhtannaya harbor. Look at the map.
  22. sportline
    sportline 27 December 2021 15: 34
    0
    This is some kind of nightmare. So much effort and work ...
  23. AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship 27 December 2021 16: 05
    0
    Interestingly, some changes will be made to the production technology or will continue to rivet other ships from the same highly combustible components
  24. tatra
    tatra 27 December 2021 16: 18
    +6
    The freedom of the enemies of the communists from the communists, which they so longed for under the USSR, is a mess, lawlessness, lawlessness, powerlessness, monstrous irresponsibility and impunity.
    None of them is responsible for anything, starting with the responsibility for their seizure of the RSFSR, none of them will ever admit their guilt in anything. They always have anyone to blame for what they have done, but not themselves.
  25. DGG72
    DGG72 27 December 2021 16: 51
    +14
    Good day bike:

    * Happiness and pride of a young engineer *
    I noticed that in spite of approximately the same intellect (young people are more intelligent, of course, but old people are much more erudite and more experienced), specialists of different levels think significantly differently.
    Novice Engineer - Guided only by technical considerations.
    More experienced - technical and economic.
    Gurus are also technological.
    Chief - takes into account the administrative and bureaucratic aspects.
    Big boss - guided only by administrative and bureaucratic considerations.
    An effective manager only thinks about personal gain.
    As a result, mutual misunderstanding arises, through a step - almost complete. Moreover, all specialists, both from top to bottom and from bottom to top, consider each other to be idiots. And the results of such activities can take the most perverse forms. Especially, taking into account the total lies and fraud, in part of which "effective" unsurpassed masters (in fact, they only know how to do this).
    For example, a new rocket gearbox is needed, and a young engineer is instructed to create the hull:
    Having studied the question, he quite logically develops a structure from a composite material. It turns out to be light, durable and meets all the requirements. Well, so it seems to him.
    His immediate supervisor is an experienced engineer, having studied the price of composite materials, he sighs heavily and decides that the body still needs to be made of titanium by welding.
    The chief designer, as the wisest, recalling his own previous experience, decides: "Well, he nafig, this hemorrhoid with titanium welded seams ... Do it by milling!"
    The chief, having looked at the drawing, thinks that there is no one to work with titanium for a long time and there is nothing, the only experienced milling machine operator died last year, the only suitable machine was ditched by Tajik guest workers, and a new one will either be bought or not, and when? And decisively changes the material to D16.
    The big boss takes the drawing and sees "D16", and this is non-ferrous metal, which, according to the directive of the Corporation, has been ordered to save money. Reflects: "But we have steel in the warehouse - heaps!" - and decisively writes - "St3"!
    Here an effective manager is interested in the progress of work and strictly asks the big boss:
    - Well, why do you need steel here? I sold it all to the Chinese, last year ...
    - No, no, sir. Not all of it, there is not much left at the 53rd warehouse, sir!
    - Your mother! Sell ​​immediately! And sell the warehouse too! Money for me ... Yes, and what do we have there in bulk, but the Chinese don't buy?
    - There is cast iron. By the way, our foundry is idle ...
    - Whoa! You know how to think with your head, sometimes!
    The next day, the head of the Corporation reports to the President of the country: "For the purpose of import substitution, attracting investments and introducing innovations, using exclusively domestic nanotechnologies, we are developing a new gearbox for a rocket that has no analogues in world practice!"
    President: "Doesn't it have any analogues?"
    Head of the Corporation: “Exactly! Nobody has such a thing. And it never will! "
    Right there, a friendly chorus of corrupt and ideological bloggers-sycophants picks up in different voices: "It has no analogues!" - "In world practice!" - "The whole world is in dust!" - "But then!"
    A young engineer who barely regained consciousness after learning that a new gearbox for a space rocket would be housed in cast iron, reads about his own scientific achievements in the tape and quietly sobs under the table with happiness and pride for his Great Motherland!
  26. CHEREDA73
    CHEREDA73 27 December 2021 16: 52
    +3
    That's right - "there are definitely no analogues in the world"
  27. ivan2022
    ivan2022 27 December 2021 17: 09
    -16
    Quote: Terran
    Why are you writing comments on this article?
    The theme of the burned out ship. You, apparently, are not an expert in this subject, and your tongue itches a lot ... "open everyone's eyes."
    Be so kind as to express your revealing dull melancholy in related articles. I am sure that there you will meet many sad, deep-thinking philosophers with whom you will find a common language.


    And what topic is "appropriate" - you decide - Mr. Pointer? If you are a specialist fireman, re-read the spec. literature ... and take it easy, it will be with you. So, this topic is not for firefighters and not for shipbuilders. This is a topic about lack of conscience at all levels.

    Conscience cannot be replaced by any professionalism. This is what you should open your eyes to. You absolutely do not understand this! All around wherever you spit-to the devils of "great specialists", all the achievements of which are reduced to one; "Thank God it didn't kill anyone this time." There was a time when, without any longing for such things, they were simply put up against the wall. And they did the right thing. It is only necessary to speak with you in that language. .. heh ... heh .. to cheer up and disperse your sad melancholy .... then you will run fast and everything that is required to be performed from "A" to "Z" and there will be no fires and everything - everything will be just cool !
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 27 December 2021 17: 49
      -16
      Quote: ivan2022
      It is only necessary to speak with you in that language. .. heh ... heh .. to cheer up and disperse your sad melancholy .... then you will run fast

      The only way ! This is the only way to get rid of the illusion that in our society there can be a different conversation and other methods ...
      1. Terran
        Terran 27 December 2021 22: 59
        +3
        Napoleon, what are you worth, what do you know how to be necessary for the country? Does anyone need you at all?
        You decide - Mr. Pointer?
        - in no case, I'm interested in your motives for writing inappropriate and dull speculations.
        Conscience cannot be replaced by any professionalism
        - why replace? Why or / or when you need both together.
        There is no less harm to the country from stupid cheers-patriots / political officials than from clever scoundrels.
        Love for the country, like any true love, it is hidden and intimate, and is not put on display - "Dasha, I love you", bright sports suits "RUSSIA", shake my fist as if I put everyone against the wall for Mother Russia.
        To paraphrase the catch phrase: showing off is not a useful thing to do ...
    2. Storog dvornik
      Storog dvornik 27 December 2021 23: 53
      +2
      ... not for firefighters or shipbuilders ...
      Fires extinguish FIRE ...
      Firefighters, this is about something else ...
  28. T-100
    T-100 27 December 2021 17: 37
    +3
    But first, it seems to me, specialists and experts of the Investigative Committee should work out, who are simply obliged to determine the culprit.

    I think they have already written in pencil in their notebook: the welder, Uncle Petya, is to blame.
  29. Radikal
    Radikal 27 December 2021 19: 06
    0
    Quote: Alien From
    Roman, Roman, it is really bitter to watch this shame.

    This is not just a shame - this is a crime! sad
  30. fa2998
    fa2998 27 December 2021 19: 11
    +2
    Quote: paul3390
    "Where is the landing? Where is the landing?"

    But the planting will not return 22 billion rubles. We cannot punish the company either - the state, there is only one pocket. And they will abandon such builders, their only units per country. A vicious circle, they will find a switchman, and again contracts and billions will go and the construction time is huge. hi
  31. Radikal
    Radikal 27 December 2021 19: 48
    +5
    Burned-out illusions worth 22 billion rubles
    And what about the question? The guarantor in his speech said that everything Voryade is a country - wow, well, in general, damn it! So, Roma - everything fits into the framework of the existing system, there is no need to be surprised, you can only be upset, and also ... wait .... I wrote the recommendations, then erased them, because I do not want them to be read by people who will develop measures to counteract them. sad
  32. Skif
    Skif 27 December 2021 21: 10
    +3
    Are there any special officers at the plant? Don't want to say anything? Very "by the way" the boat blazed. The hull is ready, there should be no welding work, and suddenly there is a fire. And it was a painfully high-spirited fire.
    1. MikhailRus
      MikhailRus 28 December 2021 11: 28
      -3
      Specialists are mostly useless rabble
  33. Stils
    Stils 27 December 2021 23: 22
    +2
    Quote: Alien From
    Roman, Roman, it is really bitter to watch this shame.

    The agile was insured.
  34. Osipov9391
    Osipov9391 28 December 2021 00: 08
    0
    There are already so many bad things in these state corporations, what better way to give such orders to private traders?
    Only we will not have this, even if the private trader has a project, quality and terms are the best of the best.
    Everything is shared for their own. There is no competition.
    I know what I'm saying. In my city, private traders opened a company for the production of cruise yachts and boats from scratch.
    They do it with high quality. And they did not take a dime from the state. And the selection of personnel is very serious.
    There they do not roll cranes on the deck, do not heat the docks and do not set fire to them - fire extinguishers are installed at workplaces during hot work !!!
    In general, they do it according to the mind.
    And the same USC cannot offer such products at all.
    And what is the UAC better? Where are the good CP-10 and Rysachok planes? Why didn't they go into production and stopped testing? Because they are not "one of their own". They are not given money.
    Although they work better there.
    So far, nothing will change.
    1. yehat2
      yehat2 28 December 2021 22: 03
      0
      Quote: Osipov9391
      it may be better to give such orders to private traders

      do not give orders to random performers from the outside, if they do not at all, absolutely not pin down.
      Everything is distributed among their own. Some of their own people work, even if not conscientiously, but at least honestly. And there are those who are quite brazenly sawing.
  35. silver_roman
    silver_roman 28 December 2021 01: 14
    0
    you need to cut your heads, otherwise USC and other corporations think only about profit and cost optimization. And all sorts of "nonsense" such as the combustibility of materials for a warship - this is business 10. The main thing is the plan and timing.
  36. Lonely loner
    Lonely loner 28 December 2021 04: 08
    0
    USC can only master the budget, and nothing more.
  37. antiaircrafter
    antiaircrafter 28 December 2021 09: 32
    0
    [quote And there are questions.] [/ quote]
    Landing where? (from)
  38. pogis
    pogis 28 December 2021 12: 35
    +2
    ..not for firefighters or shipbuilders ...
    Fires extinguish FIRE ...
    Firefighters, this is about something else ...
    1. mvbmvbmvb
      mvbmvbmvb 28 December 2021 13: 03
      0
      Firefighters are the BURNERS, according to the (old) Russian language. In this case, this is a boat, a team of builders, the entire Navy and us. We have suffered.
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 28 December 2021 21: 59
      0
      as they explained to me in the museum of firefighting equipment, the difference between firefighters and firefighters - some extinguish, others are on fire, isn't it?
  39. mvbmvbmvb
    mvbmvbmvb 28 December 2021 13: 00
    0
    What if this boat had been fired upon in a military conflict? Could a shell hit, or God forbid, a bullet "with that core that is terrible for steel armor"? Or would he himself "shoot" a rocket from a fireproof PU shaft (which itself burned down)? After all, fire from the rocket nozzle would also set fire to both the launcher's mines and superstructures made of flammable "non-combustible" "celluloid". And it could be far from the berth, where they would have taken it in tow, or it could have been driven away by the current (mooring lines, incorrect, also of the same quality to the "non-combustible materials" of the superstructure. Then people could suffer.
  40. Two
    Two 28 December 2021 14: 31
    0
    Execution cannot be pardoned ...
  41. zenion
    zenion 28 December 2021 17: 03
    -1
    These are the people who did not believe that this ship would sail. He started to get nervous, blushed and flushed. He did not want to go against the people. Burning, burning clearly, so that I would not go out!
  42. Galleon
    Galleon 28 December 2021 20: 43
    0
    There is a local tradition in the Navy - with a well-aimed thought and a sharp word to give alternative names to ships. For example: "Carrier" easily turns into "Carrier", etc. And so I read the comments and thought that being this "Agile" "Thief".
    1. Angry
      Angry 29 December 2021 11: 52
      0
      Now it is also called "Burnt"!
      1. Galleon
        Galleon 29 December 2021 12: 24
        0
        Quote: Angry
        Now it is also called "Burnt"!

        Also an option)
  43. yehat2
    yehat2 28 December 2021 21: 57
    +3
    a persistent feeling that a large jamb was covered with a fire.
  44. Charik
    Charik 28 December 2021 23: 26
    -1
    burned out - because the horseradish worked, something that was crammed into it for a huge amount of horseradish working equipment
  45. xoma58
    xoma58 29 December 2021 11: 16
    0
    Naturally, not a single very "effective manager" in this shipbuilding company will be punished. Relatives. And what about the losses? Losses will be covered from taxpayers' money - from OUR money. Not a single "necessary" person will suffer.
  46. Alexey Lamonov
    Alexey Lamonov 29 December 2021 11: 46
    0
    I read the comments. The conclusions are as follows. Thinking and analyzing the material is enough for the very snot. And on non-combustible (combustible materials), and on spies, and on the manager who sets fire to the warehouse. There is a lot of work, you cannot do without Beria. Someone must be nominated for the head of SMERSH.
  47. Angry
    Angry 29 December 2021 11: 51
    +2
    Yes, it is necessary to change, and even to plant someone in this OSK !!!! Doc was drowned! The ship was burned !!! And they stand the longest in the world! And this Rakhmanov is also awarded !!! And Kalyma is crying behind him! A SHAME!!!!!!!!!
  48. Victor Shershnev
    Victor Shershnev 30 December 2021 20: 18
    0
    We seem to have the whole country on fire. Blazing like this corvette.
    Only this mess will cost much more than $ 300 million ...
  49. Design Ovragov
    Design Ovragov 31 December 2021 16: 02
    +1
    We know how to crap in the most unexpected place
  50. Fedor M
    Fedor M 1 January 2022 02: 59
    0
    As Nikita Sergeevich would say, pi ****** !!!