Military Review

"Responsible for both defense and invasion": France begins construction of the first FDI-class frigate

65

The French company Naval Group on December 16 laid the keel of the first "frigate of defense and intervention" (FDI), ordered for the country's navy, thereby starting the implementation of a new program in the interests of fleet... Its construction will be carried out at the Lorient shipyard.


The frigate is due to be handed over to the fleet in 2024. In total, a series of five ships is expected to be built, which will be delivered between 2024 and 2030. The first frigate will be named "Admiral Ronark" in honor of the naval commander who distinguished himself during the First World War.

This program strengthens the technological leadership of the French naval industrial base

- noted in the company.

The large export potential of the project is indicated. Currently, negotiations are underway for Greece to acquire three FDI frigates.

FDI is positioned as a "high seas ship". Its displacement is 4500 tons, the length is 122 meters, the autonomy of navigation is 45 days, the crew is 125 sailors and 28 paratroopers, the power plants are capable of delivering a maximum speed of 27 knots. The name of the project is not given by chance - the frigate is responsible for both defense and invasion (as they say in France itself), possessing both means of defense against aviation, submarines and surface ships, and the capabilities of special operations.

The FDI armament is represented by Exocet MM40 B3C anti-submarine missiles, Aster 15/30 missiles, MU90 anti-submarine torpedoes, and artillery. The new generation Seafire radar is responsible for target control. A helicopter in the 10-ton class can be placed on board, such as the NH90 or the promising JLH (Joint Light Helicopter) and UAVs (weighing up to 700 kg). The frigate can receive a spetsnaz detachment with two landing boats.

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  1. Alien From
    Alien From 17 December 2021 12: 35
    +11
    And the French are great. Their defense and electronics are at the highest level. There is a lot to learn from them.
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 17 December 2021 19: 00
      +1
      Especially cool - rockets "exoset", 50 years ago. With modern air defense systems, it is absolutely useless scrap metal.
      1. nks
        nks 18 December 2021 21: 04
        +1
        In fact, the latest modification (block 3c) of exosets was made just recently and is just entering service.

        Quote: TermNachTER
        With modern air defense systems, it is absolutely useless scrap metal.

        Reality disagrees with you
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 19 December 2021 10: 47
          +1
          Remind me of the last effective use of this RCC))) Falklands can be omitted.
          1. nks
            nks 19 December 2021 11: 23
            0
            Of course, there is no application of this modification - it is only entering service, but in general, here
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82_%D1%81_%D1%84%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BC_%C2%AB%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA%C2%BB


            You, in turn, can recall the last effective work of air defense against a similar anti-ship missile system, well, or the effective use of an anti-ship missile system that is relevant in your opinion.
            1. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer 19 December 2021 15: 11
              0
              How is this modification fundamentally different from the one that was put into service 50 years ago? Effective air defense work against subsonic missile launchers - for example, in Syria. How many "axes" hit targets out of several dozen launched? Everyone agrees that with modern air defense systems, a subsonic anti-ship missile system is wasted money and a dangerous illusion for l / s.
              1. nks
                nks 19 December 2021 15: 58
                0
                Quote: TermNachTER
                How is this modification fundamentally different from the one that was put into service 50 years ago?


                First of all, the GOS and the engine / fuel, and so everything else is a little - just the same class - subsonic in the same mass and dimensions and the same aerodynamic configuration with an ultra-low-altitude approach to the target.

                Quote: TermNachTER
                How many "axes" hit targets out of several dozen launched?

                Not at all - you don't even have to start arguing. In addition, this is a different case - this is not a rocket launcher and they fly at 50-100 meters, but an exocet of 5 meters and below.

                PS: I understand that you have no examples.
                1. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 19 December 2021 18: 15
                  +1
                  The principle of operation for "axes", and for "harpoons" and for "exosets" is the same - subsonic. They are relatively simple targets even for MZA, not to mention modern air defense systems. As I understand it, they continue to be kept in service for one simple reason - there is nothing else - there is nothing anyway)))
    2. molyr
      molyr 17 December 2021 19: 35
      +4
      but what about 27 knots? I remember crying so much that our 29th gave out
      1. avg avg
        avg avg 18 December 2021 18: 24
        +3
        You do not understand, this is different!
  2. singless
    singless 17 December 2021 12: 36
    -8
    probably watched the series the last ship. Oh well
  3. Cat Alexandrovich
    Cat Alexandrovich 17 December 2021 12: 39
    -4
    Invasion, 28 paratroopers ... This is definitely against China!
    1. forcecom
      forcecom 17 December 2021 12: 54
      +3
      Do you think we have more on frigates / corvettes? it's not a UDC all the same
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Engineer Schukin
    Engineer Schukin 17 December 2021 12: 43
    -37
    Funny to read.
    The French are shipbuilders, hahah.

    While they are dying, we are already building the world's best frigates with Zircons in series.

    However, our sailors need to train on someone else, as the targets for the exercises will come down. Let them hyster later as much as they like.

    We brought them to their knees two centuries ago, but we didn’t give the order to get up yet. Know ours!
    1. singless
      singless 17 December 2021 12: 47
      -3
      they need a dwarf emperor.
      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 17 December 2021 13: 22
        +7
        If you mean Napoleon, then he finished badly.
        It is unlikely that they want to repeat.
  6. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 17 December 2021 12: 44
    +7
    Iron-shaped body.
    The influence of the Sumvolts?
    1. forcecom
      forcecom 17 December 2021 12: 55
      0
      it looks like the projectors were impressed.
    2. Avior
      Avior 17 December 2021 12: 59
      +6
      Rather like that :))
    3. nks
      nks 17 December 2021 13: 02
      +6
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Iron-shaped body.

      :)))
      Sorry again, Alexey. A little for your education
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_bow
      The Sumvolt is far from the first modern ship with an inverted nose, but perhaps the most unsuccessful. Although, of course, any experience should be taken into account, albeit negative, I believe that in the case of FDI this was not required either.

      PS: The news title is not entirely correct. The text correctly states that the keel has been laid, but construction began in 2019 by cutting metal.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 17 December 2021 13: 10
        +9
        "The Sumvolt is far from the first modern ship with an inverted nose" ///
        ---
        Surprised ... I was on a ship with an inverted nose at the age of three
        grandmother brought it. ("Or maybe they dream about the cruiser Aurora? ..."). good

        The French love to make revolutions. This frigate iron will enter the Thames
        will shoot blank at the Louvre. And the "yellow vests" (and the Afro-French)
        will lead France 70 years to a bright end. fellow
        1. Avior
          Avior 17 December 2021 13: 48
          +2
          It is far from the Thames to the Louvre.
          From the Seine a little closer :)))
          But the French have some experience in this matter, no doubt.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 17 December 2021 13: 49
            +2
            Confused ... old age is not a joy drinks
        2. nks
          nks 17 December 2021 14: 21
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Me on a ship with an inverted nose at the age of three
          grandmother brought.

          Yes, I have no doubts. Only I did not accidentally write "modern ship with an inverted nose "- that inverted nose and this one are two big differences :) Like the FDI nose compared to the Zumvolt

          Quote: voyaka uh
          will enter the Thames,
          will shoot blank at the Louvre.

          Be careful with the substances, Alexey :)
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 17 December 2021 17: 49
            0
            "Be careful with substances, Alexey" ///
            ----
            Mom said in childhood:
            "son, drink brandy brandy, psychedelics will not bring you good! :)))
            Confused everything, right: "will go into the Seine, shoot the military at the British Museum" am
            1. nks
              nks 17 December 2021 18: 11
              0
              hmm, the first option was more realistic ... Is Friday just beginning?)
      2. Avior
        Avior 17 December 2021 13: 50
        +3
        Zamvolt can rather be called not brought to mind. The potential of the ship has not been revealed at all by the cuts in construction and armament for it.
        1. nks
          nks 17 December 2021 14: 23
          0
          This is a separate big topic. Everything is much more complicated there. In general, the Americans have recently had few technically successful projects.
    4. Alien From
      Alien From 17 December 2021 13: 45
      -4
      They calculated, so it is less noticeable. These misers of the grandmother will not be blown away.
  7. Avior
    Avior 17 December 2021 13: 15
    +5
    The frigate goes like a new series after Lafayette
    76 mm melara, 16-32 cells for Aster 15/30, 8 exosets, costs 420 euros apiece in 2017 prices.
    At the same time, there is a version of Lafayette - Formideble - with the same capabilities - a displacement of 3200, at a price at the time of manufacture 1,6 billion for 6 pieces, that is, 265 million apiece

    It's hard to understand the French or there are some details that are not voiced, but that are important
    1. Alex777
      Alex777 17 December 2021 14: 05
      0
      It's simple. Exactly like in Britain.
      There are expensive Type-26 and FREMM.
      And there are cheap Type-31 and FDI. hi
      1. Avior
        Avior 17 December 2021 14: 49
        0
        Lafight, which FDI inherits, is the cheap line. The French have an expensive line - it's also FREMM. The question arises - why the Lafayette did not simply continue in the Formidebl version (the French did this version for Singapore), if there is no formal improvement in characteristics? Or do we just don’t know some subtleties?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Alex777
          Alex777 17 December 2021 15: 11
          +1
          Lafayette has been outdated for 30 years.
          Formidable in 20 years.
          Therefore, they make a new FDI.
          1. Avior
            Avior 17 December 2021 18: 10
            -2
            With the same weaponry, one to one
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 17 December 2021 18: 52
              +1
              Quote: Avior
              With the same weaponry, one to one

              REO is different. GUS is cooler.

              On Formidebl 32 slots under Aster 15/30, on French FDI - only 16

              The place is reserved there. You can also add.
              The ship is tailored for modern tasks.
              1. Avior
                Avior 17 December 2021 19: 45
                0
                What kind of problem was to put another gas and rab? Quite often they do it on the same project for a specific customer.
                As for the cells, well, they would be reduced if the tasks are now like this. Why a new project from scratch? With the same parameters?
                1. Alex777
                  Alex777 17 December 2021 19: 56
                  0
                  I don't know the exact reasons, of course. yes
                  But increasing the range by 20% required
                  increasing VI, IMHO. And away we go ... bully
    2. nks
      nks 17 December 2021 14: 30
      +2
      1.FDI is still significantly higher (VI> 4000)
      2. Opportunities are also more (only Aster 30 is worth what)
      3. Over a quarter of a century, general inflation gives at least x1,5 value (and for individual components / materials, everything can be more different)
      So for about the same price, more VI and opportunities
      1. Avior
        Avior 17 December 2021 15: 03
        -1
        1.it is bigger, but the possibilities are the same
        2. On Formidebl there are 32 cells under Aster 15/30, on the French FDI - only 16, 32 are supposed to be in Greek. Otherwise, the possibilities are similar. The crew is only on Formidebl less.
        weaponry
        1 76-mm Otobreda cannon
        8 Exocet MM40 block 3C missiles
        16 Aster missiles
        2 х 2 torpedoes MU90
        2 20mm remote controlled cannons
        Non-lethal weapons of passive electronic warfare 1
        Baits
        Aircraft
        1 NH90 NFH helicopter
        Drone

        Virtually the same armament as Formidebl. Only Formidebl has an additional 16 slots for Aster and a couple of more torpedoes.
        3. R&D alone = 1,7 billion euros for new frigates. Although there was a finished project.
        1. nks
          nks 17 December 2021 15: 23
          0
          In general, the differences are obvious (if you look closely at the weapons). Formidable is a development of LaFayette, he also required R&D, if the French ordered new frigates based on Formidable, then a modification with R&D would also be required. As a result, the project would still be modernized, but not entirely relevant, which is also not very relevant for export prospects. That is, the same Greeks would not have bought the formidable. And about the budgets you indicated - I'm not sure if they are correct.
          1. Avior
            Avior 17 December 2021 19: 49
            0
            the differences are obvious (if you look closely at the armament)

            And you are not in general terms, but specifically
            Well, for example, instead of a 76 mm gun, a new frigate is equipped with .... which one?
            I took the budgets from the Internet, I have not seen the originals. Perhaps the price also depended on the fact that some were built in Singapore, and not in France.
            1. nks
              nks 18 December 2021 21: 01
              0
              What are you comparing - French LaFayets with French FDIs or export Formidables with export FDIs?)
              I'll try to explain a little from the other end. I do not want to rummage through the internet about the cost now, but the price you indicated (you, I suppose, took it from the English wiki, but there are no proofs for it) of the construction looks like the truth, then the cost of R&D is of course clearly overestimated (I can guess what is the error there). It is enough to look at the turnover of the naval group, the share of other projects in it and the duration of the FDI program, that 1,7 yards cannot be obtained there. I believe FDI R&D was 5+ times less than the amount you specified. And if you are talking about money, then this R&D is already being fought off by the very first Greek export contract.
              If we talk about the technical component, then, of course, you can (as I understand it, you suggested something similar above) in the existing project, including its size and even the shape of the nose, increasing the autonomy and seaworthiness, adding space for the TLU and the data center , redesigning cable channels, changing the superstructure and recalculating the stability for a new radar, etc., etc. But if you have ever participated in a technical development project, no matter even what, then you should know that there is a threshold of change, up to which you may save resources and reduce risks using a mature project, and after that it is cheaper and less risky to make a completely new one. a project, especially if you have experience and baggage of proven individual solutions.


              This is all omitting the discussion about when a heavily modified project crosses the line and becomes essentially a new project.

              PS: And about the possibilities - well, look at least a presentation video.
              1. Avior
                Avior 19 December 2021 02: 17
                0
                I participated in the development of technical projects
                And I compare Formidebl as an existing modification of Lafayette
                He has a similar autonomy and cruising range with the new ships.
                You can also read that Formidebla are distinguished by good seaworthiness.
                They can act as an information center for the formation of ships.

                There is no need to add Vpu, Formidebl has no less of them than the new one. To put the radar fresh is also not a problem, the same manufacturer.
                Thus, alterations in order to modernize will not be significant.
                But to make a new ship of a new project from scratch - here there is no way without R&D.
                As for the possibilities, I did not see a noticeable increase or even a noticeable change. Perhaps to modernize electronics, but this is not a problem for a long time.
                1. nks
                  nks 19 December 2021 09: 23
                  0
                  Autonomy of FDI is ~ 20% more than that of formidable (fdl), for FDI 32xA50 for fdl 16xA50 + 16xA43 (they are shorter and for a reason),
                  SeaFire radar is generally such a room, since it involves maintenance practically on the go and the Data Center is also a separate significant volume that requires
                  also significant communications, fdl's seaworthiness is good, but this does not mean that it cannot be improved and this is important both for the use of weapons and for efficiency (including autonomy), etc.

                  Not knowing why you are so persistent in not wanting to read carefully, I can’t help you with anything else - sorry. :)
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 19 December 2021 11: 22
                    0
                    I just read everything carefully
                    FDI autonomy is ~ 20% more than formidable (fdl)

                    Can you give a link to the source?
                    range at Formidebl
                    Rayon d'action 5 nautiques à 000 nœuds / 15 km à 4 nœuds
                    Range 5000 nautical miles @ 15 knots / 4000 km @ 27 knots

                    That is, exactly the same as that of the new frigate.
                    The autonomy of the new frigate is 45 days. LaFayette has an autonomy of 50 days, according to Formidebl I did not find such a parameter, but they write that it is more than Lafayte.
                    FDI 32xA50 for fdl 16xA50 + 16xA43 (they are shorter and for a reason),

                    Is it so important that everyone is the same size? All the same, part will be Aster15, they are important against targets at extremely low altitudes. As for the French themselves, they generally put only 16 cells, which suggests that this factor is not very important for them.
                    SeaFire radar is generally such a room, since it involves maintenance practically on the go and the Data Center is also a separate significant volume that requires
                    also essential communications

                    With this, Formidebl has no problem, it is designed just with these requirements in mind.
                    Formidable-class frigates are designed as nodes of the integrated command and control network of the Singapore Armed Forces, built on a principle similar to the American network-centric systems. The main components of the network are a shipborne combat control system developed in Singapore and a dual data transmission system based on the Fast Ethernet protocol [6].

                    Each frigate has a zone of responsibility with a radius of 360 km, where it acts as a mobile operational center, receiving information from ships of the same type and air objects that are within reach. The combat control system integrates all available information, creating a complete picture of the combat zone and transfers it to coastal operators and other participants in the operation [15

                    Of course, electronics, including radars, require updating, time does not stand still. But there is nothing fundamentally complicated in this, and the Formidebl radar is placed in the same way, structurally it has the same rigidly fixed antennas, and, by the way, their radar and other electronics are not very bad even today ..

                    fdl's seaworthiness is good, but this does not mean that it cannot be improved and this is important both for the use of weapons and for efficiency (including autonomy), etc.

                    Lafayette frigates were originally designed as stealth frigates with good seaworthiness,
                    The effective scattering area of ​​the frigates "Lafayette" was the same as that of a small patrol ship with a displacement of 500 tons.

                    at the same time, for the Formidebl, both parameters were further improved, along the way replacing the composite elements at Lafayette with steel at Formidebl.
                    The main design feature of the frigate hull is constructive measures to reduce the effective scattering area of ​​the radio signal. They include inclined surfaces of sides, bulwarks and superstructures, hiding of various external equipment behind radio-absorbing screens. Compared to its prototype, the frigate Lafayette, and its other modifications, Formidable has a significantly improved radio profile [4] due to the smaller superstructure and the closed radar mast technique used [5]. The frigate is built entirely of steel, in contrast to Lafayette, in which composite materials are widely used in the aft superstructure to save weight [6]. Compared to the prototype, the frigates demonstrate better seaworthiness and greater autonomy [7].

                    I have not seen anywhere information that the seaworthiness of the new frigate is fundamentally better than that of Formidebl.
                    It is assumed that the ship, which is being built to replace the old one according to a completely new project, must have a higher level of capabilities, otherwise it makes no sense to fence the city, you can simply upgrade the existing project, it is much easier, faster and cheaper. Compared to the original Lafayette of the French Navy, this is so, the new ships differ fundamentally in their capabilities. But in comparison with the Singaporean Formidebles of the French construction, nothing of the kind is observed. Therefore, the question arose - why was it necessary?
                    Sorry, I did not see any explanation for this in you, although, perhaps, they are.
                    hi
                    1. nks
                      nks 19 December 2021 11: 49
                      0
                      Quote: Avior
                      Can you give a link to the source?
                      range at Formidebl


                      https://www.mindef.gov.sg/web/portal/navy/assets/ships/formidable-class-frigate

                      Quote: Avior
                      Is it so important that everyone is the same size?

                      HM. Ask the Greeks. As for the Naval group, it is obvious that they will get more profit.
                      Quote: Avior

                      All the same, part will be Aster15, they are important against targets at extremely low altitudes

                      aster15 is simply cheaper - without a booster, and they have the same head part as aster30

                      Quote: Avior

                      Ormidebl radar is located similarly, structurally it with the same rigidly fixed antennas


                      no thales heracles is such a spinning thing

                      And seafire

                      and the mast there is completely different
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 19 December 2021 12: 23
                        -1
                        https://www.mindef.gov.sg/web/portal/navy/assets/ships/formidable-class-frigate

                        on the link did not see a word about autonomy. The range indicated is more than 3500 miles, which does not contradict the one given by me from the French Wikipedia page
                        Ask the Greeks.

                        are these experts in the navy?
                        aster15 is simply cheaper - without a booster, and they have the same head part as aster30

                        I know.
                        For targets at extremely low altitudes - and this is one of the very common classes of targets - the range of Aster 15 is sufficient.
                        Because some of the A43 cells are not relevant, half of them will be Aster 15 anyway
                        no thales heracles is such a spinning thing

                        the more there is more for a new place - you can remove the antenna drive, the space will be free. Everything else will not change, and the weight will even decrease.
                      2. nks
                        nks 19 December 2021 13: 22
                        0
                        You still figure out your motivation, and for the last time I will try to help you adjust your cognitive apparatus.

                        Quote: Avior
                        on the link did not see a word about autonomy.

                        There are different types of autonomy. The autonomy associated with the habitability of the crew (this is exactly what is indicated in the day on the wiki) primarily depends on the reserves of provisions and living conditions. As for the provisions, each operator calculates based on their consumption standards and, well, can ask the designer to make, if possible, some small changes in this regard. There is autonomy for the duration of database maintenance, etc. - we will not talk about them here. There is an autonomy for the power reserve - that's what we're talking about. Wiki is a good tool, including one that allows you to assess the reliability of the specified data. There is no proof for that. I trust the official data of the operator more. The wording "more than 3500" is common, it usually means a slight excess, so as not to indicate the exact data. And in order to think otherwise, one must have reason. For example, I understand that "In excess of 25 knots" may well mean all 30 knots, because it is not for nothing that the Singaporeans wanted 2 times more power from the SU (by the way, the actual maximum speed on French ships can be slightly higher declared - specified in the specs, this is the standard that they _must_ meet and the power plant is selected in accordance with this requirement, but it is clear that they cannot be calculated with an accuracy of HP) and just in connection with this, the cruising range is in no way may just grow so significantly (this more powerful SU consumes more). In turn, for FDI, with a lower power compared to fdl and a higher VI, 27 nodes are indicated, so I think the Naval Group's hydrodynamic engineers did not receive their salaries for nothing. In general, about seaworthiness - google the data on the advantages of an inverted nose in the light of modern developments.

                        Quote: Avior

                        are these experts in the navy?

                        Well, probably professionals work in the Greek Defense Ministry and they assess modern threats like this and want to have more operational capabilities. By the way, I don’t know if it will convince you
                        this, but when testing PAAMS against a supersonic low-altitude anti-ship missile system, it was Aster 30 that was used
                        https://www.defense.gouv.fr/marine/a-la-une/interception-d-une-cible-supersonique-evoluant-au-ras-de-l-eau

                        Quote: Avior

                        the more there is more for a new place - you can remove the antenna drive, the space will be free. Everything else will not change, and the weight will even decrease.

                        OMG !!! Can't you see the difference in dimensions (including height)? Don't you understand that you need to provide an access channel for service and other communications? Do you have data on mass, since you speak so confidently? Don't you understand that this will require a significant redesign at this point if you take fdl?
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 19 December 2021 14: 49
                        0
                        Understand your motivation after all.

                        you sort it out with yours to begin with.
                        There are different types of autonomy.

                        Autonomy and power reserve are not the same thing. These are different characteristics.
                        The wording "more than 3500" is common, it usually means a slight excess

                        it is obvious that you do not understand what you are writing about. The range depends on the travel speed. For 18 knots, for example, the Fordimable has a range of 4200 miles. Of course, at high speed it is much less, at which it will be 3500.
                        I took the range at a speed of 15 knots so that it could be compared, since for the new frigate the range is given for this very speed.
                        The wording "more than 3500" is common, it usually means a slight excess, so as not to indicate the exact data

                        this wording in relation to weapons means that the party does not want to disclose accurate data. And in this particular case, it also means that with a decrease in travel speed, the range will increase.
                        In general, about seaworthiness - google the data on the advantages of an inverted nose

                        I know about it, below I gave a video. But this is general data, and not in relation to a specific situation. There is no reason to say that the seaworthiness of the new frigate has changed markedly compared to Formidebl.
                        By the way, I don’t know if it will convince you
                        this, but when testing PAAMS against a supersonic low-altitude anti-ship missile system, it was Aster 30 that was used

                        a false statement will not convince anyone
                        In May 2019, HMS Defender (D36), during the Formidable Shield exercise, destroyed a drone simulating a high-velocity, low-altitude munition attack. [2] During these exercises, the French frigate FS Bretagne, using an Aster 15 anti-aircraft missile, destroyed a supersonic missile flying at a speed of more than 2 Mach (2400 km / h) [3].

                        Well, probably professionals work in the Greek Defense Ministry and they assess modern threats like this and want to have more operational capabilities.

                        and in the French navy, then, amateurs, in your opinion? They also estimate the required number of TLUs to be 2 times less than the Greeks.
                        Forgive me, you are just making up arguments.
                        Do you have data on mass, since you speak so confidently?

                        I don’t, like you. And you speak so confidently ... I see that the radar is of a similar type, and the new one is structurally simpler and lighter.
                        You don’t understand that this would require a significant redesign at this location.

                        and this is many times easier than making a completely new project with the same capabilities.
                        I see that you have run out of arguments, and you have begun to frankly stretch them. I will not bother you. I see no point in further discussing this issue with you.
                        hi
                      4. nks
                        nks 19 December 2021 16: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Avior
                        and in the French navy, then, amateurs, in your opinion? They also estimate the required number of TLUs to be 2 times less than the Greeks.
                        Forgive me, you are just making up arguments.

                        Are you not aware that different countries have different threats and their Armed Forces tasks are somewhat different? Fleets are built according to different models - you do not see the structural (not quantitative) difference between the French and Greek navies. You asked for a difference in armament, you were poked at the obvious - you say "this is not necessary, it will not be used"

                        Quote: Avior

                        a false statement will not convince anyone.

                        Of course, this will not convince you of your false statement.
                        Quote: Avior
                        they are important against targets at extremely low altitudes.

                        You stated that the aster 15 has an advantage over the aster 30 for low-altitude targets. I said that they are equivalent in this sense and an example is an example. You, as I understand it, are claiming that the website of the French Ministry of Defense is lying?

                        Quote: Avior

                        I see no point in further discussing this issue with you ..


                        Yes, goodbye. The questions were rhetorical - you don't have to answer.
  8. Flooding
    Flooding 17 December 2021 13: 31
    +4
    Armament FDI presented anti-submarine missiles Exocet MM40 B3C

    more precisely anti-ship
  9. Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 17 December 2021 13: 36
    +5
    The ship's design is peculiar, but it looks quite dignified.

    Previously, we paid attention to this and the ships had formidable, impetuous outlines. But the fashion for stealth came and ships of the 22160 type appeared, which had neither appearance nor weapons.
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 17 December 2021 17: 45
      -1
      Well, on the patrolmen that the containers are not ready, it is not their fault, but on the whole, the scheme of work of ships with diesel engines from Kolomenty and a displacement of 1 tons has been worked out, you can lay light corvettes with 500 uvp, 8 mm cannon, armor, a package, a platform for a turntable and sonar a set from the Guardian, we will get an inexpensive corvette with a range of 76 km
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 18 December 2021 13: 05
        +1
        sonar kit from Guarding


        Hydroacoustic, not sonar.
        For your information, the bulbous GAS "Zarya" at 20380/20385 increases the draft by 3 meters - it is 4,5 on the keel, 7,5 on the bulb

        How are you going to shove IT into a small corvette?

        PS And people have enough audacity to express their opinions ...
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 18 December 2021 17: 21
          -1
          Those. only Timokhin and Klimov have an opinion on topvar? And the "small corvette" of 1 tons is not so small ..
          1. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 19 December 2021 15: 10
            +3
            Opinion should not run counter to the real world, for example, with the dimensions of the GAS Zarya antenna.

            You have to think what you say.
            Why, before speaking about the role of naval artillery, I played a counter battle of ship strike groups in different compositions on special software, and only then said I needed guns, why, before speaking on the topic of the ultimate "strike" from Kuznetsov, I sat and drew the conclusion of aircraft to the launching positions on the deck, in consultation with a specialist who participated in the creation of the Su-33 on the topic of permitted intervals between aircraft by distance and time, and only then spoke out?
            The opinion should be based on real facts, and the facts cannot be interpreted as you want, they just are and that's it.
            We take the Chinese 056 as a standard for a small corvette with anti-submarine capabilities, find its side view on a known scale, then find a side view of 20380, bring it to the same scale, then cut out the bulb from 20380 in the paint, put it on 056 just to understand the scale, and already THEN we express ourselves.

            This is how decent people do when they are not blamed for speaking out.
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 19 December 2021 16: 25
              0
              horror then what ... then I'm waiting for the next time a similar comment from you under Klimov's speeches about "anti-aircraft missiles of different air defense systems have the same dimensions, which means they need to be shoved into single cells, and it is better to make them universal." rockets are built according to different principles, by different manufacturers and with different tasks .. And yes, if Zarya does not fit in there, then we don’t have other GAS anymore?
            2. Barberry25
              Barberry25 19 December 2021 16: 41
              0
              and yes .. as I understand, apart from Bulba, there are no complaints about the very project of a light corvette / patrol based on Karakurt with 8 UVP, Armor, Packet, 76 mm cannon and a displacement of 1 tons with Kolomna engines?
  10. Castro Ruiz
    Castro Ruiz 17 December 2021 13: 58
    +1
    Quite balancing the frigates.
    Step up to par with Lafayette.
  11. Orsis338
    Orsis338 17 December 2021 14: 12
    0
    I did not understand what was in favor of the invasion, offensive weapons in the form of CD were not declared, or the VO did not tell about it
  12. Oleg812spb
    Oleg812spb 19 December 2021 00: 51
    0
    Something like "Mustai Karim" is similar. Musier know a lot about perversions ...
    1. Avior
      Avior 19 December 2021 12: 10
      0

      it looks like this on the go
      1. Oleg812spb
        Oleg812spb 19 December 2021 15: 10
        0
        These two have a high tank and are closed at the top, such as combined with the superstructure, so they do not fill up with excitement and do not collect water. The frigate did it differently, apparently counting on more favorable weather conditions.
  13. Timur_3
    Timur_3 10 January 2022 20: 08
    -1
    They will pursue a double-digging policy, and this will be taken away from them.
  14. hostel
    hostel 22 January 2022 23: 26
    0
    This is a ship of limited capacity. Although, in itself, the project is interesting.