Military Review

Guards Syndrome. How high technologies survive from Russia

368

Vladislav Lobaev. Source: YouTube / channel "Weapon TV "


Stop nightmare business


The fact that in Russia it has been very tight lately with technological breakthroughs has been talked about for a long time and, to be honest, there are no special advances in this field.

Our country is slowly eating up Soviet innovations, sliding more and more into the hi-tech abyss. The competencies in which Russian engineers can create at least some kind of competition for foreigners are becoming less and less - nuclear energy and the military-industrial complex.

Once upon a time, of course, the aerospace industry could have been added to the list, but that has long been in the past. You can treat the Soviet legacy in different ways, but the total technological power of the state was an order of magnitude greater than the present one. Wherever you stick, the ears of Soviet technologies stick out everywhere. As soon as we start to build something on our own, then either it does not work out, or serious help from Western "friends" is required.

For example, they decided to create a fundamentally new platform for "Platform-O" strategic missiles - nothing came of it. In the second case, they tried to build a domestic civilian airliner "Sukhoi - Superjet" - as a result, we see an aircraft that no one needs with a considerable share of imported components.

In this case, one does not really have to admire the USSR either. It's all about the command centralized management system, geared towards the concentration of resources on mega- and hyperprojects. Such as BAM, Energia-Buran, or even a fantastic dam project across the Bering Strait. And it worked out - the shuttle "Buran", into which billions of rubles were thrown in, managed to return to the Baikonur runway in a fully automatic mode.

However, the mass market in the Soviet Union was tight. They did not know how to make reliable cars, household appliances, even wristwatches of the proper quality did not work out. One of the reasons is the prohibition of private entrepreneurship, which is aimed not at satisfying the requests of state orders, but at the laws of the free market.

In modern Russia, two factors have developed simultaneously - they have forgotten how to implement megaprojects, and have not learned how to meet the market demand. More precisely, over the past thirty years, the market has been saturated, but exclusively with food, clothing and essential goods. When it comes to smart products with high added value, our country is 99% dependent on the West. The sanctions of recent years have only exacerbated this dependence.

Much of the blame for the situation lies with the very principle of building industry. In Russia now, in strategic areas, state corporations and state-owned companies reign, created by merging several competing offices into one.

For example, Sukhoi and MiG were transformed into one United Aircraft Corporation.

What did this lead to?

First, to the elimination of competition as a phenomenon.

Secondly, to the bureaucratization of the enterprises themselves. Whatever one may say, state managers cannot be as effective as independent ones. Simply because in case of failure, they do not particularly risk anything - the state budget in the form of concessional loans will always help. With such a calico, state corporations do not particularly need technological breakthroughs.

The example of Rusnano, which literally crumbled after the departure of the state official Chubais, is the most obvious confirmation of this. The year 2021 is coming to an end, and we have not yet learned all the delights of the noisy advertised nanotechnology. For the sake of fairness, and abroad they still have not really realized where to effectively attach products with the prefix "nano".

The recipe for solving the problem, oddly enough, is very simple - let small and medium-sized high-tech businesses work. When the head of the enterprise is himself responsible for the balance on the account, he will choose the ways and methods of work. And this is where the notorious innovations that save time and money will be in demand. The work of dozens of specialized research institutes, racking their brains over new inventions (we still know how to do this), will be in demand. And there, you see, the previously impossible will take place - business will start investing in science and technology, thereby increasing the prestige and salaries of scientists.

In the meantime, it is very awkwardly subsidized by the state.

But in all this stories there is one flaw - as a result, a typical representative of the middle class will appear, independent of the budgetary salary, able to think independently, invest in education and choose. And this is probably not included in the plans of the current leadership.

Case Lobaeva


The entire previous story was just a prelude to the event that happened in early December at the Lobaev Arms plant in the Kaluga region.

A typical representative of medium-sized businesses engaged in high-tech production. The brand of Vladislav Lobaev is literally known all over the world, is unique for Russia and, remarkably, is not tied to the budget in any way.

The first bells that it was annoying someone rang in December 2019.

Also, in early December, an inspector of the Russian Guard unexpectedly came to the enterprise and, as Lobaev himself writes, “measuring the armature of the lattice of the weapon storage room with a caliper, he solemnly announces to us that the diameter of the armature is 0,1 mm below the norm”. Of course, this is a good reason to close the room, and therefore the entire enterprise.

The Kaluga Regional Court resolved the situation only by March 2020, that is, Lobaev Arms had been idle for more than three months. This means that the customers did not wait for their rifles, the company received less income, and Lobaev himself incurred reputational costs. The unique production could also lose its specialists.

They learn from mistakes, even from strangers.

Lobaev eliminated the inspector's remarks, canceled by the court, and installed fittings of the required diameter in the weapons room. Specialists of the Russian Guard accepted the changes without any problems, about which the owner of the company has the appropriate acts.

And now a new visit.

Again, without warning. On December 3 of this year, an inspector of the same Rosgvardia comes to Lobaev Arms and finds new violations - this time a welding seam was placed on the door of the weapons room not according to the "charter" and a cassette with barrels was installed in the wrong place. As Lobaev writes in the Telegram channel, on December 9, 2019, the inspectors were completely satisfied with these shortcomings.

The result of the check is logical - the "weapon" is sealed, the enterprise is in a forced outage. And again there are risks of disruption of supplies, loss of highly qualified specialists and financial damage. With a high degree of probability, the Kaluga court will cancel the Rosgvardia's claim in a couple of months, but time, money and nerves will already be spent. Once again.

There are many unknowns in history.

It is not clear for what purpose the guardsmen "nightmare" Lobaev's office?

Do they want bribes? Rollback when concluding a government contract?

Or is the inspector just obediently fulfilling the order?

After all, there are many Lobaev Arms competitors in the country that specialize in precision weapons. Someone did not like the robotic experiments of Lobaev's engineers - after all, the company aims at a new niche where its players are present. In any case, the bitterness is not for Vladislav, but for the inspector of the Russian Guard. A person with shoulder straps, invested with power and responsibility, should not behave in this way.

After all, where is the officer's honor and oath?

Vladislav Lobaev is already advised to give up everything and go back to the UAE or the States. Refuses so far.

PS


After writing the article from Vladislav Lobaev came an encouraging news - Close work is underway with Rosgvardia, and the forecast of the situation is rather positive. However, the armory is still sealed.
Author:
368 comments
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 05: 11
    +32
    Well, the production of exclusive bolts, albeit ultra-precise, is far from the most "high-tech", but still the situation is ugly, I agree with the author here!
    And here are stupid passages like:
    It's all about the command centralized management system, geared towards the concentration of resources on mega- and hyperprojects.

    However, the mass market in the Soviet Union was tight. They did not know how to make reliable cars, household appliances, even wristwatches of the proper quality did not work out.

    Whatever one may say, state managers cannot be as effective as independent ones.

    no credit is given to the author.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 16 December 2021 05: 53
      -1
      Well, the fact that government officials are an order of magnitude less effective is practically an axiom.
      1. alekseykabanets
        alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 06: 34
        +71
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Well, the fact that government officials are an order of magnitude less effective is practically an axiom.

        Aha ha ha! But your current "effective managers" are mega effective.)))) Start with the civil aircraft industry and finish with electronics, sell factory premises for shopping centers, in this they are only amazingly effective.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 16 December 2021 07: 21
          -4
          My? What are you talking about now? Are you trying to challenge the fact that the most successful companies are overwhelmingly non-state-owned? If not, why is this post at all?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 08: 11
            +69
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Are you trying to challenge the fact that the most successful companies are overwhelmingly non-state-owned?

            Why didn't you think about it? Maybe because the salaries of managers of state-owned companies are absolutely not tied to the income of the enterprise?
            And in addition, no responsibility? wink
            According to the article -
            After all, where is the officer's honor and oath?
            What honor is there in the National Guard when Zolotov, in response to Navalny's accusations with evidence, carried delirium about a duel? When did the top leadership of the Russian Guard swallow the spit of the Chechen security officials?
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 16 December 2021 08: 15
              -23
              What are the salaries tied to?)
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 08: 17
                +41
                In the sense of what? belay The fact of the matter is that it leads to losses. For even in spite of the company's losses, state managers receive bonuses at the end of the year, which are growing every year.
                Did not know?
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 16 December 2021 08: 18
                  -18
                  So are you talking about bonuses or salaries?) You have already decided) Bonuses yes. I agree with you. For a private trader, this is the motivation. And the reward for reaching certain levels. Set in the contract. Usually. In state-owned companies I have no idea what they pay for. You need to see their contracts. But this again says that the state manager does not suffer from efficiency, to put it mildly)
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 09: 22
                    +16
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    So are you talking about bonuses or salaries?)

                    Both are forms of remuneration for work. But you again cling to the words, not to the meaning. Is this work? wink
                    1. carstorm 11
                      carstorm 11 16 December 2021 09: 56
                      -15
                      The motivation system is. I do not cling to words, but try to convey the meaning to you. My work is different, but it is very close to the topic.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 10: 48
                        +15
                        Quote: carstorm 11
                        The motivation system is.

                        Like any wages for labor.
                        But if you still rest on your thesis, then motivational payments should somehow be related to the efficiency of the enterprise? wink
            2. Cottodraton
              Cottodraton 16 December 2021 08: 42
              -16
              Navalny is absolutely not an authority. In vain this miracle was dragged here
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 09: 24
                +37
                Quote: Cottodraton
                Navalny is absolutely not an authority. In vain this miracle was dragged here

                Not a fan of Navalny, but the facts on state purchases of food for the National Guard are documented in Navalny's film "How much is cabbage for the National Guard".
                1. Akuzenka
                  Akuzenka 16 December 2021 11: 40
                  +9
                  Come on, you "break the spears." Some capitalists have ordered a competitor. That's the whole story. The lobbyist is shouting about this all over the site. Capitalism, you will not strangle a competitor - it will strangle you. It happens literally. Istria is not worth a damn, but only money, and then not ours, but already drank.
                2. Cottodraton
                  Cottodraton 18 December 2021 09: 09
                  -3
                  You are his fan
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 18 December 2021 21: 39
                    +2
                    Quote: Cottodraton
                    You are his fan

                    Can the basis of your conclusions be voiced?
          2. Civil
            Civil 16 December 2021 08: 45
            +48
            However, the mass market in the Soviet Union was tight. They did not know how to make reliable cars, household appliances, even wristwatches of the proper quality did not work out. One of the reasons is the prohibition of private entrepreneurship, which is aimed not at satisfying the requests of state orders, but at the laws of the free market.

            30 years without socialism proved exactly the opposite. Lada, even after switching to Renault / Nissan, did not make reliable cars. The rest of the passenger factories were destroyed. Hundreds of related businesses too. The same is true for instruments and clocks. And impoverishment has led to the fact that they are forced to buy even poorer quality Chinese shirportes of the lowest category. It is generally better to be silent about food. The free market made everyone sell everything - from positions in government agencies to children from an orphanage. And entrepreneurship led to the poor and the miserable, all those who did not want to give up their principles, and did not want to lie, kill, rob, and beggars-losers.
            1. PPD
              PPD 16 December 2021 10: 32
              -4
              Lada, even after switching to Renault / Nissan, did not make reliable cars.

              Is this a joke?
              Silly joke. The current generation of Vase machines surpasses everything that has been done before.
              And the Logans and Sandero are going there.
              1. Akuzenka
                Akuzenka 16 December 2021 11: 45
                +4
                You are joking so subtly. Buy a Lada for big money and try to ride it for a year. After a couple of months, it will begin to pour in. With foreign cars, almost the same trouble. The year before last, the quality of all cars fell sharply.
                1. SMAKAROV49
                  SMAKAROV49 16 December 2021 22: 21
                  +5
                  You have a bad example about Lada. Vesta was four years old, then changed to a seven-seater for Largus (the family became bigger). We have been driving it for the second year. I did not notice that something was "falling" in these machines.
                  1. Akuzenka
                    Akuzenka 21 December 2021 12: 25
                    0
                    Apparently you're in luck. My picture is the opposite. A rare month goes by without a breakdown. I'm already shaking the car dealer. Two engines, a control panel, a steering wheel, grenades, an intermediate bearing and every little thing.
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 21 December 2021 12: 30
                      0
                      I have Largus Cross, three years without breakdowns, only consumables. request
                2. sgrabik
                  sgrabik 16 December 2021 23: 25
                  +6
                  Yes, but at the same time, prices for VAZ cars and all foreign cars assembled in Russia soared even more sharply.
                3. CTABEP
                  CTABEP 18 December 2021 12: 56
                  +2
                  I bought a new one for Grant, I have been driving for a year and a half - except for one annoying breakdown at the very beginning (to beat off the hands of an assembly fitter) - everything is perfect. Another thing is that for 600k (taking into account the insurance and the mandatory body kit when buying), you could buy a good used foreigner - but you have to not only grind the language for patriotism on the forums, but also support the domestic manufacturer. At the same time, for some points - the same softness of the suspension and ground clearance - it is better, for example, than the Kia Ria.
                4. PPD
                  PPD 23 December 2021 10: 27
                  0
                  Go to the forums, read what they write about BMW. laughing
              2. victor50
                victor50 16 December 2021 22: 56
                +9
                Quote: PPD
                The current generation of Vase machines surpasses everything that has been done before.

                You would also compare with Ruso-Balt products
              3. Titus_2
                Titus_2 17 December 2021 00: 14
                0
                Yeah, and the phones really have become. You are not looking at the situation very well.
              4. Letun
                Letun 17 December 2021 10: 57
                +1
                Quote: PPD
                Is this a joke?
                Silly joke. The current generation of Vase machines surpasses everything that has been done before.

                laughing lol well, have fun wassat
                My car mechanic, a smart guy, I went through a lot of crooked ones until I got to him, to my question: "Sash, why for so many years, I have not seen a single domestic car in your repair?" He told me that he does not take them for repairs, because there is a sea of ​​hemorrhoids. It will rust, then other shameful little things that take up a lot of time will become attached. And then I specifically asked about Vesta and ikrei, they say they look nothing, maybe it's better there? No, he says, no shit is better there ...
                1. PPD
                  PPD 23 December 2021 10: 28
                  +1
                  Breshet your friend. Hang your ears less.
                  1. Letun
                    Letun 23 December 2021 15: 09
                    0
                    Quote: PPD
                    Breshet your friend. Hang your ears less.

                    I have more reasons to believe him than you laughing
            2. Terran ghost
              Terran ghost 16 December 2021 11: 06
              -12
              The rest of the passenger factories were destroyed

              What are the rest? GAZ has quite successfully switched to minibuses and light trucks, for example.
              AZLK (which produced Moskvich cars under the Union)? Well, if your products are uncompetitive and can be sold only if there is a notorious "queue" for a car, when a person waits for several years and then faces a choice "either you take such a car, or none at all" - then, of course, such a plant will be expected to go bankrupt ...
          3. alekseykabanets
            alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 09: 33
            +40
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Are you trying to challenge the fact that the most successful companies are overwhelmingly non-state-owned?

            But my, you are golden, I hasten to report to you that companies are not a spherical horse in a vacuum, they are always tied to the existing state model. What do you think KAMAZ was not successful under the USSR, or Hungarian Ikarus? Were Soviet aircraft companies successful if they occupied more than 40% of the global market? Which company brings more benefits to the people and the state, the Labinsky Semsovkhoz, a millionaire collective farm giving work to nearby villages, containing schools, kindergartens, ponds, sports sections, etc. or a "farmer" who has now grubbed up all the orchards, stupidly grows grain and sells it to Turkey, hardly more than two hundred people work for him, naturally he does not contain schools, kindergartens, or a sports section. So who is more effective?
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 16 December 2021 10: 02
              -37
              And how do you define the criteria for success?) You mix together eras, approaches, models while ignoring the fact that the USSR did not have a market economy and to assert the success of its state-owned companies, to put it mildly, strange) What the nineties proved when these successes evaporated literally in days. What does this mean?
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 12: 18
                +23
                Quote: carstorm 11
                How do you define the criteria for success?)

                So the "success" of the company - you entered this term in your comment.)))))
                Let's try together to deduce the category of "success" of the company, and for whom should it be successful?
                Quote: carstorm 11
                What the nineties proved when these successes evaporated literally in days. What does this mean?

                Yes, I beg you.))) What has become of your memory? Or have you decided to just lie? Mass bankruptcy and further criminal privatization - is this: "the successes evaporated in just days"?
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 17 December 2021 04: 52
                  -6
                  Competition. As soon as she appeared, everything became clear. Do you think I deny the successes of the Union?) This is not so) Just getting into the market, competitive goods continue to be so. Although I do not deny the fact that some production facilities were destroyed on purpose. We could have survived completely. I'm talking about the big picture.
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 07: 57
                    +4
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    Competition. As soon as she appeared, everything became clear

                    When did she appear? What then became clear to you? There is competition between two grandmas in the market that sells pies. I worked at the Armavir Electrotechnical Plant, from civilian products, the plant made only mixers and coffee grinders, which are not bad, by the way, and everything else was military service and imports from social countries. They abruptly stopped taking the military service, the ties between the factories were destroyed, the factory was closed. Remind me of titanium shovels? Collective farms are generally some kind of horror movie. Did you miss this moment? Were you in the army then?
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    We could have survived completely. I'm talking about the big picture.

                    Couldn't survive.
                    1. minus
                      minus 19 December 2021 07: 31
                      0
                      You know, I still have a live Armavir coffee grinder / mixer. A dozen
                      * modern * survived and is not going to die! The parents bought the same year in 1986. And I think that it will last as many more years) You just need to change the brushes.
                    2. minus
                      minus 19 December 2021 07: 45
                      +1
                      I have not seen the titanium shovels personally. But in the garage there are duralumin ice sleds. Perfect paraboloid of revolution with riveted leather handles. They were purchased in large quantities by foreigners in the early nineties. Actually, this is a parabolic antenna made with small tolerances. The products of the plant, which turned out to be unclaimed due to the destruction of industry ...
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 20 December 2021 20: 34
                        0
                        Titanium shovels are now marketed as an extra strong and durable garden tool.
                      2. minus
                        minus 21 December 2021 16: 39
                        0
                        Those titanium shovels that are now being sold did not stand next to the old Soviet BSL and MPL50))) I don’t need modern titanium shovels for nothing!))) I meant those titanium shovels that were driven over the hill in post-perestroika times.
              2. zenion
                zenion 16 December 2021 18: 51
                +10
                Nobody understands anything. I immediately truncated, Stalin is to blame for everything. If the Red Army, in spite of Stalin, had not defeated Europe, they would have already drank beer and scratched sciatica. But Stalin did not realize that the people were spoiled and stopped doing both this and that, and began to make a vigorous bomb, then it would be much better to have only the Principality of Moscow and just business. Once in the workshop where I worked, they made a stand and brought something similar in size to a sewing machine. We hooked a 2 liter bottle with graduations, pressed a button and this thing started twisting one complex square piece with several holes. And this detail was spinning, bent in all directions. The head of the shop, the chief engineer and two more strangers and a man in the uniform and rank of colonel looked at this. One of the civilians says he must work at least four hours on this fuel. Let's see. Several more people came running. What have we done? Managing the product we make. That's all - wow. Only I didn't get it. After checking and working for more than 6 hours, all workers of the plant received bonuses, absolutely everything. Then our products were rolled on Red Square on May Day. "Colleagues" of the West were surprised.
              3. stankow
                stankow 16 December 2021 22: 10
                +14
                The USSR did not have a market economy, but owned an international market 10 times larger than the Russian one. How is it?
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 17 December 2021 04: 55
                  -7
                  Thank you at least not 20) do you consider the countries of the treaty or all?) It's just that the treaty has died and somehow the goods have become not particularly needed ...
                2. IC
                  IC 25 December 2021 07: 43
                  0
                  You mean
                  for exporting supplies to third world countries to ideological allies?
                  Where are these allies and money for supplies now? Billions of debts written off?
              4. sgrabik
                sgrabik 16 December 2021 23: 34
                +2
                Well, it's better not to remember the 90s at all, the so-called "great reformers" then broke so much wood that we still can't get out of the shit after them, it was necessary to somehow manage to lower the whole country below the plinth !!!
                1. alekseykabanets
                  alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 08: 10
                  +6
                  Quote: sgrabik
                  the so-called "great reformers" then broke so much wood that we still can't get out of shit after them,

                  They have not gone from power to this day.
            2. Terran ghost
              Terran ghost 16 December 2021 11: 31
              -9
              What, in your opinion, KAMAZ was not successful under the USSR

              KAMAZ is still quite successful and has its own market niche.
              Soviet aircraft building companies, if they occupied more than 40% of the global market?

              With the aircraft industry of the USSR, everything is not as rosy as it seems at first glance.
              Actually, for clarity.
              https://e-notabene.ru/img/articles/29402_5.jpg
              The vast majority of this production is military vehicles. Excessive overproduction of which only laid a heavy burden on the economy of the Soviet Union.
              There were, in fact, exactly three reasons for such an overproduction of weapons.
              The first, alas, is the worst and most paradoxical. "The factories have to be loaded, otherwise where will we go to those who work for them." The fact that the overproduction of military products and huge military spending ruined the Soviet Union without any war by the "military lobby", alas, was not taken into account.
              The rest of the reasons were already of a purely military nature. There were two of them:
              The first of them is the fear that in the event of a "big war" and an attack by the countries of the military-political NATO bloc on the USSR, these same NATO countries will somehow be able to dramatically increase the output of military products, and the USSR will not be able to "catch up" with them. Hence the desire to "stock up on what you need in advance," even though it ruined the country.
              Second, there are fears that a theoretically probable attack on the USSR by the countries of the military-political NATO bloc may begin with a massive "disarming" nuclear strike that would surprise the USSR Armed Forces. After which (behind a "disarming" nuclear strike) a massive offensive by the ground armies of these very countries of the NATO military-political bloc was expected. From here those very fifty thousand tanks "grow" (more than the entire military bloc of NATO and China combined), a disproportionate number of ballistic missiles and aircraft - so that after a "disarming" strike there is still something left to defend and how to deliver a "strategic retaliation strike. ". Hence, by the way, the notorious Perimeter system - so that in the conditions of destruction of command posts of the Strategic Missile Forces and the USSR Naval Forces after a theoretically potential "disarming" nuclear strike from NATO countries, the surviving launch complexes and submarines could be given orders for the use of weapons.
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 12: 23
                +14
                Quote: Terran Ghost
                The vast majority of this production is military vehicles.

                I just forgot to add "civil aircraft" sorry.
                Quote: Terran Ghost
                There were, in fact, exactly three reasons for such an overproduction of weapons.

                I don't think there was an "overproduction of weapons". NATO and the Internal Affairs Directorate had approximate parity, only different strategies for the use of weapons.
                1. Terran ghost
                  Terran ghost 16 December 2021 13: 55
                  +2
                  I just forgot to add "civil aircraft" sorry.

                  As for the civil aircraft industry, there was no question of any forty percent of the total world aircraft production.
                  Actually, for clarity ...
                  https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2020-03/thumbs/1585053450_samoletov.jpg
                  I don't think there was an "overproduction of weapons".

                  Exactly what happened. In the production by the second half of the 1970s-1980s, the number of nuclear warheads almost twice the number of those for the United States was not necessary - the ability to destroy a theoretically probable enemy not three, but five times will not add security, but will ruin its own economy. Similarly, there was no point in the production of fifty thousand tanks (more than the NATO countries and China TAKEN TOGETHER) and even more so in the production of tens of millions of light manual the poorly trained infantry was still deciding something by that time long gone).
                  1. stankow
                    stankow 16 December 2021 22: 14
                    0
                    Twice as many warheads with twice the dispersion is just parity!
                    1. Terran ghost
                      Terran ghost 17 December 2021 09: 26
                      -1
                      twice the dispersion

                      What other dispersion?
                2. IC
                  IC 25 December 2021 07: 47
                  0
                  You can think so. It is only necessary to compare the living standards. And also the end result for the USSR.
            3. Den red
              Den red 16 December 2021 13: 53
              +1
              It is the responsibility of the state to maintain kindergartens, schools and sections, for this the farmer pays taxes to him. The duty of the conditional farmer to perform a qualitatively assumed production function voluntarily. Everyone should do their job and do it with high quality. In the USSR, there was a big problem with the quality of agriculture, despite the isolated examples of successful farms built on the enthusiasm of directors. The rest were a gray and dull mass, doing everything according to old technologies and unwilling or unable to change anything for the better due to their personal qualities or lack of external stimulus or resources. Seen enough of this. It would be optimal for a modern state to combine both approaches, private and state in the economy, somewhere you need to have a monopoly, and somewhere to give private traders work in small things, they are more mobile than a huge bureaucratic apparatus and are more proactive and can help the country's economy. One does not interfere with one another, but supplements, but what is written in the article is unfair competition and abuse of power for selfish purposes. Subject for judicial investigation.
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 14: 40
                +9
                Quote: Den Red
                In the USSR, there was a big problem with the quality of agricultural

                My gold, did you eat Soviet tomatoes at all? And the sausage? This is the current plastic "pink paradise" is not possible, sausage, it is generally a poison that cannot be eaten.
                Quote: Den Red
                It is the responsibility of the state to maintain kindergartens, schools and sections, for this the farmer pays taxes to him.

                You see, what is the matter, if the collective farm did not care about its infrastructure, beyond what the state does, then none of the specialists will go there to work, and the rest will be lured away.
                Quote: Den Red
                The duty of the conditional farmer to perform a qualitatively assumed production function voluntarily.

                In this economic model, yes, however, who is more useful to society, a collective farm or such a farmer, who is concerned only with his own profit?
                Quote: Den Red
                It would be optimal for a modern state to combine both approaches, private and state in the economy, somewhere you need to have a monopoly, and somewhere to give private traders work in small things, they are more mobile than a huge bureaucratic apparatus and are more proactive and can help the country's economy. One does not interfere with the other, but complements

                This is exactly what happened in the Stalinist economy.
                Quote: Den Red
                but what they write in the article is unfair competition

                In capitalist states, fair competition ended at the end of the nineteenth century.
                1. Terran ghost
                  Terran ghost 16 December 2021 16: 21
                  -1
                  And the sausage? This is the current plastic "pink paradise" is not possible, sausage, it is generally a poison that cannot be eaten.

                  What kind of Soviet sausage are you talking about? About the one that was sold for ordinary rubles or the one that was sold for checks from Vneshposyltorg / Vneshtorgbank? ;)
                  This is exactly what happened in the Stalinist economy.

                  So how is it? There is some misunderstanding as to what exactly the production artels were. This did not work in such a way that, for example, a group of citizens gathered and decided to create a production artel in order, say, to sew jeans, and then sell them to other citizens, distributing the profits according to the labor contribution of each employee to the common cause of the artel.
                  On the contrary - what to produce and in what quantities the artels were indicated by the higher state bodies. And the purpose of creating artels was actually different - to cooperate with individual handicraftsmen and establish state control over them with the subsequent nationalization of their enterprises.
                  Actually, the problem is in the structure built under the leadership of I.V. Stalin and the later leaders of the USSR, the super-statist system (erroneously called socialist, although the problem of the detachment of ownership of the means of production from the workers of specific enterprises, alas, remained unresolved) was actually not even so much in the state form of ownership as such, but in the actual one " emasculation ", turning into an empty space of democratic procedures and replacing them with bureaucratic one-man management, and later - oligarchy, hyper-centralization of the management of the economy and the state.
                  Hence, by the way, the ruinous hypermilitarization, when the exorbitant appetites of the "military lobby" (and any military department in ANY country of the world, give them free rein, alas, bottomless appetites) there was simply no one (literally no one to say something like "no, we don't need 50 000 tanks, twenty thousand is enough for the eyes. And tens of millions of machine guns with machine guns are also not needed for warehouses - a kit for the active army and the first stage of the reserve will be enough - the surplus military enterprises will be redesigned for the production of clothing, footwear and household appliances)
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 16: 52
                    +7
                    Quote: Terran Ghost
                    What kind of Soviet sausage are you talking about? About the one that was sold for ordinary rubles or the one that was sold for checks

                    About the one that was sold in regular stores. To lay out GOSTs on it? I no, no, I make sausage, sausages according to GOSTs from 1937, and I remember that sausage from Soviet stores.
                    Quote: Terran Ghost
                    It didn't work in such a way that let's say a group of citizens got together and decided to create a production artel in order, say, to sew jeans, and then sell them to other citizens,

                    This is how it worked. See the tax code from 1936, you will learn a lot of interesting things.
                    Quote: Terran Ghost
                    how much in the actual "emasculation", turning into an empty space of democratic procedures and replacing them with bureaucratic one-man management,

                    Here, albeit with reservations, but for the most part I agree.
                    Quote: Terran Ghost
                    Hence, by the way, the ruinous hypermilitarization

                    There was no "hypermilitarization", the USSR was always in the minority relative to its opponents. ATS partially smoothed it out. And besides, I don’t want to discuss the military strategy of the USSR at all, I don’t have sufficient data or qualifications for this. My military rank is ensign, specialty - technician VISP and RSP, I did not finish AGSH.)))))
                  2. stankow
                    stankow 16 December 2021 22: 19
                    0
                    20000 tanks in the great war of the 41st USSR were enough from June to December exactly. And in the presence of tactical nuclear weapons and ATGMs, 50 thousand, how much will be enough?
                2. your1970
                  your1970 16 December 2021 22: 17
                  0
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  My gold, did you eat Soviet tomatoes at all?

                  These are the ones who rolled green into banks - because there was not enough knowledge, technology or desire to save the red ones ???

                  We had a collective farm, a millionaire, there was a planter, who always exceeded the plan for cucumbers. He grew them up to the seed of derizable, there the seeds were like watermelon seeds ... No one even needed them alive for free, so he put pressure on the regional consumer union with his authority. Those reluctantly took them and canned them. Those 3 liter jars with cut cucumbers were in the stores of the district for 2 years after which they were written off and sent to a pig farm
                  FORMALLY - CUCUMBERS WERE BEFORE THE MOTHER ITSELF, ACTUALLY - THERE WERE NOT ...
                  But the plan was overfulfilled, the bonuses were received
                  And most importantly - no chemicals ...
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 08: 07
                    +3
                    Quote: your1970
                    These are the ones who rolled green into banks - because there was not enough knowledge, technology or desire to save the red ones ???

                    These are the ones that were so many that our Kuban schoolchildren collected them in the fall. Now, in the cold weather, I have so many green tomatoes that I salt and roll them green. By the way, barrel green tomatoes in vegetable stores were very tasty, as well as barrel cucumbers. In our region (Kuban) there was a very decent conservation.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 17 December 2021 11: 40
                      0
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      By the way, barrel green tomatoes in vegetable stores were very tasty, as well as barrel cucumbers.

                      Therefore, in Moscow, people were choking on the "Globe" in the USSR ....
                      Let's not talk about Soviet products shop.
                      Mom was in charge of the SES baklaboratory
                      Once every six months, at least, she closed the sausage shop due to unsanitary conditions. A week later, the 1st secretary of the district party committee called her and in her presence he tore at the head of the district administration and the chief of the sausage shop like sidor goats ...
                      Then he told my mother "they will fix everything by morning! Open the workshop tomorrow - otherwise the plan is on fire !!"
                      This is about Soviet sausage, they came up with an anecdote - that there is no toilet paper because it all went to sausage

                      The same story was with the bottling shop - mice crawled into unwashed bottles for sweets. Only there were shorter periods between closings. But this workshop, somehow, did not really influence the plan and was usually closed for longer ... Duchesse and 777 were with mice. for a snack
                      And so on
                      The most tsimes that my mother said that at regional meetings everyone reported the same ... in all districts of the region everything was the same

                      Quiet peaceful Saratov region ...
                      1. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 12: 03
                        +3
                        Quote: your1970
                        This is about Soviet sausage, they came up with an anecdote - that there is no toilet paper because it all went to sausage

                        Are you saying that today's sausage is better? I will repeat myself. Do you want to compare GOSTs of the 70s and today's ones?
                        Quote: your1970
                        Once every six months, at least she closed the sausage shop due to unsanitary conditions.

                        Quote: your1970
                        The same story was with the bottling shop - mice climbed into unwashed bottles for sweets.

                        Do you think it's different today? I worked as a deboner at the Cherkizovsky meat-packing plant.
                        Quote: your1970
                        Only there were less periods between closings.

                        And today everything is decided simply by bribes.
                      2. your1970
                        your1970 17 December 2021 19: 51
                        -1
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        I will repeat myself. Do you want to compare GOSTs of the 70s and today's ones?

                        From "Investigations are conducted by experts ..." 4 or 5 episodes were about thefts at general warehouses and in the production of food.
                        That is, if even in the cinema it was not an isolated case, then in fact the theft was wild ...
                        However, banal - languages ​​came to Saratov from our meat-packing plant - rarely, but it happened, but oxtails - never, they were all tailless from birth ...
                        Therefore, of course there were GOSTs - only no one followed them.

                        My classmate in 1980 died of poisoning with our sausage - my mother was in Moscow for six months, and the rest were just afraid to get involved.
                        Even the criminal case was initiated - but hushed up ...
              2. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 15: 43
                +6
                Quote: Den Red
                It is the responsibility of the state to maintain kindergartens, schools and sections, for this the farmer pays taxes to him. The duty of the conditional farmer to perform a qualitatively assumed production function voluntarily.

                Ridiculously simple.
                Not conventional, for example, French, for example, the farmer is rowdy because his subsidies have REDUCED. And the Japanese are not rowdy because they pay them regularly.
                They pay taxes, uhaha.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 16 December 2021 17: 13
                  -22
                  Those farmers who are constantly on state subsidies are shitty businessmen.
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 17: 18
                    +12
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    Those farmers who are constantly on state subsidies are shitty businessmen.

                    Almost all French farmers and all Japanese rice growers are subsidized.
                  2. DMi
                    DMi 16 December 2021 21: 05
                    +13
                    Absolutely all "developed" countries, all farmers receive state subsidies in one form or another.
                    1. Gardamir
                      Gardamir 16 December 2021 21: 33
                      +7
                      and in the underdeveloped Soviet Union, all pensioners received state subsidies ...
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 20 December 2021 20: 45
                        -2
                        It’s not just that the USSR was eating away at itself a little - starting from the 50s it hung dozens of countries around its necks that didn’t have money and supplied them for thanks, and they themselves got into the arms race for the unequal barter - the civil sector was kicked into the background, thousands of enterprises were built to produce outdated products that are in production quantities did not need the population sat down on oil a raw dollar needle to cover the internal deficit - but at the same time budget liabilities grew and revenues became less and less and the mid-80s led to a budget deficit and subsequent well-known events that destroyed the USSR
                    2. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 20 December 2021 20: 38
                      -1
                      In our country, it’s just not all that three farmers get from me on investment projects who don’t use subsidies - they themselves earn and have a profit.
                  3. Den red
                    Den red 16 December 2021 21: 44
                    +7
                    They are paid subsidies because the world has become global and since the growing conditions in different countries are different: climate, soil, and the standard of living, in order to compete with the outside world, European farmers are paid subsidies. They might not have paid, then they would have simply died out, unable to withstand the competition, and it does not matter what quality these farmers would be, as workers and entrepreneurs, but the state policy there is such that they consider it important to preserve domestic agriculture.
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 20 December 2021 20: 48
                      0
                      We have private farmers mostly on their profits or on loans - state subsidies are mainly received by Agroholdings.
            4. ViacheslavS
              ViacheslavS 16 December 2021 14: 24
              -3
              What do you think KAMAZ was not successful under the USSR, or Hungarian Ikarus?


              how successful it is KAMAZ needs to be measured in a competitive market, KAMAZ could compete with MAN, Volvo, etc. , you can look at China.
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 14: 48
                +9
                Quote: ViacheslavS
                how successful it is KAMAZ needs to be measured in a competitive market, could KAMAZ compete with MAN, Volvo, etc.

                Where do you see a competitive market in general? Fair competition in the arms market? In the energy market? Etc.
                Quote: ViacheslavS
                And if we have such concepts as cost, profit, etc., then a private enterprise with an uneven distribution of profits, in the overwhelming majority of cases, will be more efficient than a state one.

                What do you mean by efficiency?
                1. ViacheslavS
                  ViacheslavS 16 December 2021 16: 00
                  -3
                  Where do you see a competitive market in general? Fair competition in the arms market? In the energy market? Etc.


                  It seems that we are talking about KAMAZ, it means the market of trucks, and here is the market for energy carriers.

                  What do you mean by efficiency?

                  Business results, company profits, market share, that's all.
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 16: 36
                    +7
                    Quote: ViacheslavS
                    It seems that we are talking about KAMAZ, it means the market of trucks, and here is the market for energy carriers.

                    You spoke about the market, comparison with MAN, etc. I replied that the concept of a free competitive market does not exist today, cited the arms and energy markets as an example, it is just that the contradictions are most pronounced there. It didn’t exist even in the days of the USSR, and it’s impossible to compare production companies with different forms of ownership and different economic models of states. If we compare KAMAZ and MAN, as cars, then they were designed for different conditions of both operation and production.
                    Quote: ViacheslavS
                    Business results, company profits, market share, that's all.

                    Very controversial! By these criteria, you will not be able to correctly compare the production association of a capitalist and a socialist country.
                    Shl Hence, perhaps the market share, and even then not in all cases.
                    1. ViacheslavS
                      ViacheslavS 16 December 2021 16: 48
                      -3
                      You spoke about the market, comparison with MAN, etc. I replied that the concept of a free competitive market does not exist today, cited the arms and energy markets as an example, it is just that the contradictions are most pronounced there.

                      It never existed 100% fair market, but this does not cancel competition in it.

                      If we compare KAMAZ and MAN, as cars, then they were designed for different conditions of both operation and production.

                      Why truck tractors, dump trucks, or just garbage trucks, or concrete mixers, etc.

                      It didn’t exist even in the days of the USSR, and it’s impossible to compare production companies with different forms of ownership and different economic models of states.


                      Why is it not possible, for example, to compare the model range of AvtoVAZ and its change in Soviet times and the same model range of the Western car industry, they usually like to show a picture in comparison of Lada and BMW or Korola.I’ll tell you more, you can compare baby carriages that were produced in Soviet times and German strollers. And this is precisely the question of motivation, under state administration, especially in a planned economy, motivation for the release of new products may be completely absent altogether.

                      By these criteria, you will not be able to correctly compare the production association of a capitalist and a socialist country.
                      Shl Hence, perhaps the market share, and even then not in all cases.

                      The cost price even in the USSR mattered, as well as the profit of the enterprise and the volume of output, quality, etc.
                      1. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 17: 28
                        +7
                        Quote: ViacheslavS
                        Why truck tractors, dump trucks, or just garbage trucks, or concrete mixers, etc.

                        No, not easy! Compare, for example, the T-34 and the German T-4, which one is better and which one is worse? One is intended for production without any special technologies and production culture, and the second is a high-tech machine, one was repaired on the knee, and the second required a serious repair. provision. Countries are different, conditions are different. You can't fix a MAN in the field with a sledgehammer.
                        Quote: ViacheslavS
                        Why can't you, .....

                        Because it is impossible that these groups of goods were produced on a leftover principle. Cooperatives - artels could not be destroyed.
                        Quote: ViacheslavS
                        The cost price even in the USSR mattered, as well as the profit of the enterprise and the volume of output, quality, etc.

                        All this (except for the cost price) began to play a role only after the reforms of Kosygin - Lieberman, this is another nail in the coffin of the USSR. Prior to this, the industry was taken "outside the framework of commodity-money relations."
                      2. ViacheslavS
                        ViacheslavS 16 December 2021 20: 10
                        -5
                        Countries are different, conditions are different. You can't fix a MAN in the field with a sledgehammer.

                        So Kamaz in the field cannot be repaired with a sledgehammer. And again, truck tractors, dump trucks, mixers, garbage trucks are in the same operating conditions.

                        Because it is impossible that these groups of goods were produced on a leftover principle. Cooperatives - artels could not be destroyed.


                        So you yourself confirm the thesis that a private company is more efficient than a state one.

                        Prior to that, the industry was taken "outside the framework of commodity-money relations" ..


                        And even earlier it was the same, and such concepts as the purchase price and the selling price, they say, the difference between the purchase of milk from collective farmers and the selling price was multiple.
                      3. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 20: 42
                        +8
                        Quote: ViacheslavS
                        are in the same operating conditions.

                        Not the same! A collective farm workshop will never work as well as a MAN service center.
                        Quote: ViacheslavS
                        So you yourself confirm the thesis that a private company is more efficient than a state one.

                        Again, a private company is not a spherical horse in a vacuum. NorNickel should not be a private company, and a shoe (jeans) repair and sewing workshop should. Once upon a time, under Stalin, it was so.
                        Quote: ViacheslavS
                        And even earlier it was the same, and such concepts as the purchase price and the selling price, they say, the difference between the purchase of milk from collective farmers and the selling price was multiple.

                        We buy milk in the Kuban, about 20 rubles, and they don't care about fat, they only need protein. I do not know how much they bought milk from collective farms, but a private owner (from subsidiary farms) went to the market.
                      4. ViacheslavS
                        ViacheslavS 16 December 2021 23: 25
                        -5
                        Not the same! A collective farm workshop will never work as well as a MAN service center.


                        The collective farm is skillful and will never work in the same way as the Kamaz service center.

                        Again, a private company is not a spherical horse in a vacuum. NorNickel should not be a private company, and a shoe (jeans) repair and sewing workshop should. Once upon a time, under Stalin, it was so.

                        There is no Norilsk Nickel, but Avtovaz, ZIL, etc., should have been private.
            5. Vadim237
              Vadim237 16 December 2021 17: 06
              -8
              Soviet aircraft building companies, if they occupied more than 40% of the global market? There is one BUT, these 40% of the world market were provided by the USSR in fact for thanks and unequal barter for the entire time of its existence, the USSR sold only 7 civil aircraft for currency - and with everything else that the USSR produced it was the same - the bulk of the currency entered The USSR, from the sale of raw materials to the same capitalist countries and with this currency to the same capitalist countries, bought consumer goods, modern equipment, food, machinery, materials, and so on. And the agricultural sector in the USSR was always unprofitable, and all these state farms existed exclusively at the expense of budgetary funds, working according to the plan for five years, they kept the infrastructure for the same money - now the state must maintain the infrastructure and the farmers pay taxes to the state for this.
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 18: 36
                +4
                Quote: Vadim237
                There is one BUT, these 40% of the world market were provided by the USSR in fact for thanks and unequal barter

                Can you substantiate this? With numbers, documents, etc.? Natural resources, from the same Africa, the same "unequal barter"? Military bases?
                Quote: Vadim237
                during its existence, the USSR sold only 7 civil aircraft for currency

                Usually the USSR sold for foreign currency rubles, if you are not aware. It had its own ruble zone, almost a quarter of the world.
                Quote: Vadim237
                And the Union of Artists in the USSR has always been unprofitable

                Can you substantiate this? With numbers, documents, etc.?
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 20 December 2021 21: 07
                  -2
                  You can meticulously study the economy of the USSR, what kind of economy it was, how it worked. These resources from Africa still need to be transported and processed and this is a big cost, alas, no plane of such an exchange is worth it, because you are already in flight from it, it would be okay to carry diamonds and uranium ore, but far from all dozens of countries with whom we traded in this way. the availability of just such resources.
                  Usually the USSR sold for foreign currency rubles, if you are not aware - In the course we had them in circulation with 8 or 9 countries of the world in total. Yes, and for these rubles, as well as for Soviet rubles, nothing could be bought in the capitalist countries, since there was no real exchange rate, the exchange was impossible, we only had an internal exchange of dollars for rubles and even that invented.
                  What can I justify - having tens of thousands of state and collective farms, as well as the production of one hundred thousand units of agricultural equipment of the USSR, food security could not be ensured in the 84th, they bought 46 million tons of grain and in 87 45 million tons and another million tons of meat each abroad and India which has more than 400 million cows - I have never bought such a quantity of grain.
            6. fiberboard
              fiberboard 16 December 2021 21: 50
              -3
              When the Labinsky Semsovkhoz-millionaire was there, wheat was bought in the USA and Canada, and when the "farmer" grows the orchards, our wheat is exported. Under the state farm-millionaire in our Siberian village, apples appeared three or four times a year, tangerine oranges only for New Year's in gifts, I only read about bananas until the early nineties. And now all the shops are packed with fruit and vegetables. Our car industry, what then, what now just sucks, buckets of nuts. Freda's Americans easily pass a million, and KAMAZ trucks creak and crumble after a hundred thousand. On the street, look at what people eat. And why? Because the state is pouring money into the rest of the car plant and pouring it into it. UAZ survives only at the expense of the state order, and even drives shit called Hunter into the army. And the UAZ Patriot is generally a song. Those who buy it in a year or two are selling it. They also shove money and shove in the VAZ. But not the horse feed. Better second-hand CRV than VAZ.
              1. Elturisto
                Elturisto 20 December 2021 00: 49
                +1
                If now we restore the meat and dairy herd to the size of the RSFSR, and sell natural dairy products in stores and not surrogates, the grain deficit will be from 35 to 50 million tons. Go study again at school already ...
                1. fiberboard
                  fiberboard 20 December 2021 17: 42
                  -2
                  Why should I go to school if I am a livestock technician by education? In the early nineties, I did an internship at the breeding farm. 5000 liters per cow per year was considered a great achievement, all milkmaids went to the medals. And now 5000 is less than the average in agricultural holdings (now less than 6000 are rejected, as I heard). In ordinary farms, 3000 was considered an excellent result at that time. Also, you don't count the private sector. Today I was on the market - they sell milk, sour cream, and butter. So from one hectare, you can mow 5 cents of hay, or 50 if you work with a meadow.
                  1. Elturisto
                    Elturisto 20 December 2021 20: 30
                    0
                    Christmas tree sticks, you are not going to school, you need to see a doctor, a psychotherapist. Milk yield depends on the quality of feed and the state of the food base, it's one thing to feed 10 million cows, another thing is 50 million cattle and another 50 million heads of small livestock and all on the same territory. And all this in conditions of low productivity of agricultural land, distances and difficult weather conditions. Do you understand what the effect of scale and caloric content of feed is not? He saw milk on the market :) clown. Go drink some milk from Pepsiko ...
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 20 December 2021 21: 16
                      -4
                      In India, 500 million heads of cattle only feed and nothing - tens of millions of tons of fodder for this have not been purchased and are not purchased, unlike the same USSR with its 250 million cattle, and it is not necessary to say that there is a tropics there, the territory is much smaller than ours and the population of times 6 more than the USSR had.
                      He saw milk on the market :) clown. Go drink some milk from Pepsiko ... Imagine eating the most natural milk and there is a lot of it in Russia, but it costs more than that with additives - go better than Soviet margarine to chew instead of natural butter.
                      1. Elturisto
                        Elturisto 20 December 2021 21: 54
                        +1
                        You then saw the Indian Olginskaya rattle :) Their cows are generally not eaten in India, and in the USSR there was beef in any canteen ...
                    2. alekseykabanets
                      alekseykabanets 20 December 2021 21: 33
                      +2
                      Quote: ElTuristo
                      At the market he saw milk

                      By the way, milk from our hands is cheaper than store milk.))) 120 rubles for a 3-liter bottle. In general, cows are taken out, nowhere to graze and nowhere to mow.
                      1. Elturisto
                        Elturisto 20 December 2021 21: 56
                        +1
                        We have 100-Mostovskoy district. But they are also running out on the sly. And the people are keeping it less and less. Now private traders are 50-60 years old, their children are no longer kept in the city.
                      2. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 20 December 2021 22: 06
                        +3
                        Quote: ElTuristo
                        We have 100-Mostovskoy district

                        And we have 120.))))) Psebay.
                        Quote: ElTuristo
                        Now private traders are 50-60 years old, their children are no longer kept in the city left.

                        I just moved to Psebay, my father-in-law and mother-in-law got sick, I need care. We moved from the village of Novolabinsky, Labinsky district. The village died. And when it was - the collective farm is a millionaire, his wife's grandfather raised him, he received a hero star for him. In general, agriculture is developing at an "unprecedented pace."
                      3. Elturisto
                        Elturisto 21 December 2021 14: 20
                        +1
                        Capitalism could not lead to other results. For capital, the main thing is profit. I think that a large land redistribution will soon begin, food prices are growing, which means we need to wait for large foreign capital, including in the Kuban. The Americans, Chinese, Saudis, Dutch are already they are buying agricultural land all over the world.
                      4. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 21 December 2021 19: 36
                        +2
                        Quote: ElTuristo
                        In short, the thrand moves, while the complete ...

                        This is just understandable. It is not clear only where to us, "gray peasants", to go.
                        Quote: ElTuristo
                        I think a large land redistribution will soon begin, food prices are growing, which means we need to wait for large foreign capital, including in the Kuban.

                        Muscovites have already bought land from us. And foreigners, I don’t know, I don’t think that very soon there will be inclinations in this direction, while the national oligarchy is still strong. However, if everything goes as it goes, it will be so, as in any other third world country.
                      5. Elturisto
                        Elturisto 21 December 2021 20: 53
                        0
                        All that remains for us is to unite on the basis of the values ​​of socialism. Fortunately, there is the experience of the USSR. Right now, the ruin of petty bourgeois, including rural ones, is taking place. There is no national oligarchy in the Russian Federation, it is international.
                    3. fiberboard
                      fiberboard 21 December 2021 14: 28
                      0
                      Well, first of all, not food, but forage. Milk yield of cows depends not only on the quality of feed, but also on balanced feeding. So in the diet of cattle, mrs, on average, in terms of nutritional value, 30 percent falls on roughage, 40 percent on juicy, 30 percent on concentrated. In summer, roughage is replaced by green forage (grass). With regard to the low productivity of agricultural land, you need to work with them. There is such a science - farming. As for difficult weather conditions, they have never been easy with us. But since the time of Tsar Pea, agriculture has been well developed. And now a lot of bureaucratic obstacles have been removed, people have land. As for the lack of vegetables for two years now, this is the direct fault of our government and the Ministry of Agriculture, which is run by a graduate of the FSB academy, not Temeryazievskaya.
                      1. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 21 December 2021 19: 42
                        0
                        Quote: fiberboard
                        And now a lot of bureaucratic obstacles have been removed, people have land.

                        And you google which "people" have the lion's share of arable land.
                        Quote: fiberboard
                        As for the lack of vegetables for two years now, this is the direct fault of our government and the Ministry of Agriculture, which is run by a graduate of the FSB academy, not Temeryazievskaya.

                        My gold, this is a direct consequence of the export trade in grain, all areas are occupied by grain, it is more profitable to trade them.
                      2. Elturisto
                        Elturisto 21 December 2021 21: 00
                        0
                        Perhaps a psychotherapist won't help you, just a lobotomy.
                  2. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 20 December 2021 21: 29
                    +3
                    Quote: fiberboard
                    Why should I go to school if I am a livestock technician by education?

                    God, where is the world heading? Do you work in your specialty? I hope not.
                    Quote: fiberboard
                    5000 liters per year per cow was considered a great achievement, all milkmaids went to the medals

                    What breed were these cows? What area is territorial? In my private farm, mongrel cows were always more than 6 tones. You just need to organize the feeding correctly.
                    Quote: fiberboard
                    In ordinary farms, then 3000 was considered an excellent result.

                    What are you talking about? Beef cattle gives so much, not dairy! Where could this be considered an excellent indicator?
                    Quote: fiberboard
                    When there was Labinsk Semsovkhoz-millionaire, wheat was bought in the USA and Canada, and when the "farmer" roars the orchards, our wheat is exported.

                    Here is a link for you, there is about this collective farm, read it and don't write any more nonsense: https://goo.su/9UKT
                    This is my wife's grandfather, today there is nothing there, no pigs, no cows, no sheep, no fish, no gardens, nothing, only grain to Turkey for sale. So do you see the development of agriculture? Do you think this is correct?
                    1. fiberboard
                      fiberboard 21 December 2021 15: 58
                      0
                      Precisely, I don’t work, I have a military pension, in general, that’s enough, this time. The cows were simmental with the blood of red-and-white Holstein Friesians. However, the Dutch women also gave no more than 5000. And it was 1992. Now, about your cows, some part of the blood of the blood of pedigree dairy cows is still there. The fact that they give you six thousand does not surprise me, because probably with feed, unlike the state farm, everything is OK. I still sometimes get advice from familiar livestock breeders, so I’ll say you’re not the only one. You are interested in the result of labor, that's all. And who was interested in the result of labor on the state farm?
                      1. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 21 December 2021 18: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: fiberboard
                        because probably with feed, in contrast to the state farm, everything is OK.

                        Yes, if my feed would be as good as on the collective farm, I would not know grief at all. Where will I get silage in a private household? They balanced the concentrates much better than I did.
                        Quote: fiberboard
                        You are interested in the result of labor, that's all. And who was interested in the result of labor on the state farm?

                        You don't know much about the motivation on the collective farm, although it may have been different everywhere.
            7. A. h. 52
              A. h. 52 17 December 2021 10: 47
              -2
              Scoop didn’t enter the world market of passenger transportation at all.
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 10: 57
                0
                Quote: A. h.52
                Scoop didn’t enter the world market of passenger transportation at all.

                How is it? And on what was the passenger transportation of the CMEA countries carried out? Half of Africa, Asia flew in Soviet cars.
          4. DMi
            DMi 16 December 2021 13: 00
            +3
            State Atomic Energy Agency. And he's mega successful.
            1. Terran ghost
              Terran ghost 16 December 2021 14: 02
              -8
              https://rosatom.ru/upload/iblock/033/03395b2a9751b4fcd385d746a2f9df15.pdf
              The revenue (turnover) of Rosatom State Corporation for 2019 is 1151,9 billion rubles. Or at the average annual rate for 2019 - $ 18 billion. With the number of employees 5 266 people (according to the same official report).
              For comparison ...
              Revenue (turnover) Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. (China) for 2020 - 136,7 billion dollars, with the number of employees - 180 thousand people.
              Revenue (turnover) of Volkswagen AG (Germany) for 2018 - 235,8 billion euros (261.7 billion dollars). True, the number of employees there is more than 650 thousand people, but all the same.
              1. DMi
                DMi 16 December 2021 14: 31
                +5
                Hmm ... in the elderberry garden, in Kiev, there is an uncle. You will compare with direct competitors. With private market companies doing the same thing as Rosatom. Instead of demagoguery.
                At the same time, study the topic of the uranium fuel market. Who is the total leader there, and whose technologies are the most technologically advanced.
                1. Terran ghost
                  Terran ghost 16 December 2021 15: 31
                  -5
                  What is the expression of "mega-success", in your opinion?
                  At the same time, study the topic of the uranium fuel market. Who is the total leader

                  The "total leader" in uranium mining is Kazakhstan. Suddenly. Almost forty-one percent of the entire market.
                  You will compare with direct competitors

                  With direct competitors, which ones? The fact is that the extraction of uranium, the production of nuclear fuel from this very uranium and the production (as well as maintenance and repair) of nuclear reactors are usually carried out by different companies.
                  1. DMi
                    DMi 16 December 2021 16: 17
                    +1
                    Mdaaaa .... uranium fuel is what is obtained after processing uranium ore. In terms of high technology, it is cooler than gadgets and mass cars. And, suddenly, the Russian Federation is a total leader in this market. No one can even come close. And so far no one can repeat the technologies of the Russian Federation.
                  2. DMi
                    DMi 16 December 2021 16: 20
                    +1
                    Mdaaaa ... Rosatom does not mine ore. Rosatom is engaged in the design, construction and maintenance of nuclear power plants. And here you need more brains than in the production of consumer goods!
                    1. Terran ghost
                      Terran ghost 16 December 2021 16: 45
                      +1
                      brains here need more than in the production of consumer goods!

                      Hmm .. why did you make this conclusion?
                      The VVER-1000 reactor was developed and first commissioned in 1980. Its current version, VVER-1200, differs from its original in general, rather slightly.
                      The concept of "smartphone", for example, did not exist at all 20 years ago. Not to mention industrially produced samples.
                      1. DMi
                        DMi 16 December 2021 21: 16
                        +1
                        The reactor is not the only thing a nuclear power plant consists of. Generation 3+ stations are being built and put into operation right now. And they are already distantly related to the developments of the USSR.
                        But the smartphone was just a compilation of various already existing inventions in one device. Gates and his company did not invent anything AT ALL. They figured out how to use and sell other people's inventions.
                      2. Terran ghost
                        Terran ghost 17 December 2021 09: 31
                        -1
                        Generation 3+ stations are being built and put into operation right now.

                        And what is there that is fundamentally new in comparison with the 1970s and 1980s?
                      3. DMi
                        DMi 17 December 2021 12: 49
                        +1
                        Well, you’ll read it yourself. At the same time, you may be surprised to find out that only China and the Russian Federation are able to build nuclear power plants in the world. The rest stupidly forgot how to do it, and lost both technology and people. And ineffective state-owned companies in China and the Russian Federation are taking over markets and offering modern solutions.
                    2. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 16 December 2021 17: 17
                      -7
                      As well as the production of composite materials, the creation of additive equipment, the creation of quantum computers and much more.
                    3. Elturisto
                      Elturisto 20 December 2021 00: 51
                      -1
                      Engaged in ...
                2. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 15: 39
                  +3
                  Quote: DMi
                  You will compare with direct competitors. With private market companies doing the same thing as Rosatom.

                  And why, it is obvious that the Balenciaga tracksuit is cooler, more profitable and more beautiful than a quilted jacket. For someone who prances around Barcelona in the summer. laughing
        2. military_cat
          military_cat 16 December 2021 09: 09
          -4
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Start with civil aircraft and end with electronics

          Everything there is state or quasi-state. You can't put the son of the head of Roscosmos in a really private office on an acquaintance - the shareholders will not approve, because they pay for the results of such management out of their own pockets.
          1. Ingenegr
            Ingenegr 16 December 2021 11: 28
            +7
            Oh really?! And in the group of companies "Promtechnologii" - really a private office - he got on the announcement in due time?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 16 December 2021 11: 58
              0
              Quote: Ingenegr
              Oh really?! And in the group of companies "Promtechnologii" - really a private office - he got on the announcement in due time?

              In all fairness, when Rogozin Jr. worked at Promtechnology, Rogozin Sr. was still nothing in Russia - he sat in Brussels as another "representative to NATO."
              And when his father became Deputy Prime Minister for Defense, his son resigned from Promtekhnologiya - "in order to avoid a conflict of interests."
              1. Elturisto
                Elturisto 20 December 2021 00: 54
                0
                Rogozin senior was always someone, since he is a relative of the now late Livanov, the head of Il, and also because he sold the votes of the patriots given for the KRO to Yeltsin (together with Lebed). Therefore, he is considered his own, verified staff.
            2. military_cat
              military_cat 16 December 2021 12: 17
              +3
              Quote: Ingenegr
              Oh really?! And in the group of companies "Promtechnologii" - really a private office - he got on the announcement in due time?

              Surely not according to the announcement, but an arms company with a great dependence on government orders in a country where government orders are inextricably linked with corruption - so-so example.
              1. Ingenegr
                Ingenegr 16 December 2021 16: 39
                0
                At that time, there was no talk of GOZ. The issue of the POSSIBILITY of participation in work within the framework of the state defense order was only considered.
        3. Evgeny Ivanov_5
          Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 December 2021 18: 24
          +1
          Can you give an example of successful state corporations? Maybe Rusnano? Or AvtoVAZ?
          1. Elturisto
            Elturisto 20 December 2021 00: 55
            0
            Renault-even Nissan bought-come down?
        4. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 17 December 2021 04: 05
          +1
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Aha ha ha! But your current "effective managers" are mega effective.)))) Start with civil aircraft and finish with electronics

          There is just one caveat, in Western countries they are quite effective. This is clearly seen in economic indicators and the level of development. And only in the post-Soviet space did they become a curse.
          Maybe it's not about the concept, but the mentality?
        5. Lighten
          Lighten 23 December 2021 07: 02
          0
          Ooooo you haven’t come across a Rosatom yet. For those, the life cycle is apparently synchronized with the half-life of uranium decay.
        6. FrankyStein
          FrankyStein 24 December 2021 00: 06
          0
          When was this civil aircraft building in private hands?
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 06: 47
        +22
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Well, the fact that government officials are an order of magnitude less effective is practically an axiom.

        An order of magnitude, that's ten times! The fact that this is nonsense is obvious. So the fact that adherents of market efficiency are not very smart is practically an axiom.
        1. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 16 December 2021 07: 20
          +23
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          ..... that adherents of market efficiency are not very smart is practically an axiom.

          It will never reach them that there is no free market.))))) It ended in the late nineteenth - early twentieth century, and began the century of corporations - monopolists, using the combined financial and industrial capital. Who can compete with such a corporation? Just another corporation of the same kind.
        2. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 16 December 2021 07: 23
          -12
          Sure, not a problem. We take a list of, say, one hundred of the world's most successful companies and find state ones there)
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 08: 14
            +9
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Sure, not a problem. We take a list of, say, one hundred of the world's most successful companies and find state ones there)
            And if we knock out state support from them in the form of lobbying (the most obvious), then what will be left of efficiency there?
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 16 December 2021 08: 25
              -12
              And if a grandmother has ... she will become a grandfather. My assertion that we will continue to argue that it is more effective by an order of magnitude?)
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 09: 02
                +9
                Quote: carstorm 11
                My assertion that we will continue to argue that it is more effective by an order of magnitude?)
                You persist that private managers are at least TEN times more efficient ?!
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 16 December 2021 10: 05
                  -16
                  This is at least. Their success is easy to determine by a bunch of signs and I have already given you one.
                  1. place
                    place 16 December 2021 14: 51
                    +7
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    This is at least. Their success is easy to determine by a bunch of signs and one I have already given you

                    "Success" - for whom? For your pocket? The most successful manager is the dope dealer. The most unsuccessful is the scientist, whose result will bring profit in 50 years ... Is that correct in your opinion? I don't give a damn about all the "successful" ones if the population is of no use to them.
                  2. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 15: 36
                    +1
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    This is at least. Their success is easy to determine by a bunch of signs and I have already given you one.

                    Top 100 Most Successful Companies? Why are you comparing only successful companies with state-owned companies? This is a very one-sided criterion. Why not compare the number of bankrupt large private companies and bankrupt state-owned companies.
                    Or, for example, such a criterion as the number of private companies serving a large state-owned company. What if it turns out that the state-owned company is carrying losses, and these private traders have stuck to the profits, thanks to the lobby in the government?
              2. mz
                mz 16 December 2021 10: 43
                +6
                L. P. Beria and L. M. Kaganovich (for example) were state managers. There are few private managers comparable to them in terms of efficiency.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 10: 50
                  +5
                  Google the name Komzin.
                  We even have a street named after him.
                  1. mz
                    mz 16 December 2021 19: 33
                    +1
                    Thank you, I'll take a look at your leisure ...
                  2. frog
                    frog 16 December 2021 20: 49
                    +2
                    If you are talking about Ivan Vasilyevich, then .... the figure is certainly grandiose. And no less ambiguous ... Although, unlike the others, there was left after him ...
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 21: 45
                      +1
                      Yes, about him. The personality is charismatic, with ambition. But he gave the results. There are no such people now.
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 16 December 2021 17: 29
                  -5
                  Yes, they were effective due to the fact that they had a real possibility of reprisals against the performer if he did not cope with the task.
                  1. mz
                    mz 16 December 2021 19: 32
                    +2
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    Yes, they were effective due to the fact that they had a real possibility of reprisals against the performer if he did not cope with the task.

                    Do you really think that is only because of this? Oh well! Their effectiveness is determined by many factors: the choice of a development strategy based on some kind of forecast or analysis; selection (appointment) of performers, providing these performers with the necessary resources; control at every stage; adjusting plans in accordance with the current situation, etc.
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 20 December 2021 21: 27
                      -1
                      "Choosing a development strategy" - What development strategy did Beria choose when Stalin appointed him to oversee the nuclear program? He could only put knowledgeable people in charge and give them complete freedom of action to create the industry and set tight deadlines for them, backed up by the real possibilities of what will happen if they fail. Fear is the driving force.
                3. Evgeny Ivanov_5
                  Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 December 2021 18: 29
                  +1
                  Yeah. Give Chubais or Musk the rights of a dictator and they will become management geniuses.
            2. moscowp
              moscowp 16 December 2021 08: 30
              +1
              You confused it with state-owned companies. Most of the largest modern market companies grew out of garages, when not only there was no state support, but the majority around did not believe that something would come of it
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 09: 04
                +16
                Quote: moscowp
                Most of the largest modern market companies grew out of garages, when not only there was no state support, but the majority around did not believe that something would come of it

                Do not tell tales about the "majority" - the overwhelming majority started with mum-dad's non-acidic support.
                1. moscowp
                  moscowp 16 December 2021 09: 49
                  -10
                  No fairy tales. An inquisitive person who operates with facts, not fantasies (you are, no doubt, such a person ?!) will easily open the list of the largest or most expensive companies in the world and read how and by whom they were created.
                  1. Greenwood
                    Greenwood 16 December 2021 14: 29
                    +6
                    Quote: moscowp
                    will open a list of the largest or most valuable companies in the world and read how and by whom they were created.
                    Well, Microsoft, founded by Bill Gates and Paul Allen (who quickly left the company), came to my mind. Capitalization over $ 2 trillion. Bill and Paul started the company from scratch. Cool right? But what do we see?
                    Bill Gates' father is a successful lawyer, corporate attorney William Henry Gates II,
                    Bill Gates's mother is a member of the board of directors of First Interstate Bank and president of the United Way's national executive committee (in which she worked with the director of IBM). Bill Gates' grandfather was vice president of the National Bank, and his great-grandfather was a senator. Bill Gates studied at the mega-prestigious private school Lakeside, after which he entered Harvard (which he really did not graduate from). Those. a person has a whole family - influential lawyers, economists and politicians with connections both in business structures and in politics, who from childhood stuffed him with knowledge and the ability to do business. And now the question is: could this person be promoted without his influential relatives and money ?!
                2. ViacheslavS
                  ViacheslavS 16 December 2021 14: 31
                  +1
                  There are millions of families where mothers and fathers can provide non-acid support in the world, but Appls do not appear every new year. And on the turnover, in 2005, three former employees of paypal created a video hosting site youtube, and a year later they sold it to Google for 1.6 billion.
              2. place
                place 16 December 2021 15: 08
                +1
                Quote: moscowp
                Most of the largest modern market companies grew out of garages, when not that there was no state support,

                Ford in America by the beginning of WWII produced about 200 thousand cars. In Russia at the same time there was a Frese company, which made cars cheaper than German Benz. And she went broke. Nobody wanted to invest. I had to sell it to Russobalt. Which until 1917 made less than 2 thousand cars.
                And in the US market and in the then Russian market .... So what?
                The difference is in the traditions of society, the level of its needs, development .... This is how you primitive "thinkers" in the 90s with your stupid market fanaticism threatened entire industries in the USSR, exported trillions of dollars to the West, closed a lot of quite normally working enterprises. And this is quite our domestic trait - to look for a "system" that works "by itself", just to do without the elementary implementation of the rules of the law, conscience, obedience to the law ... But this does not happen ... The same Ford in Russia would have been stripped to the skin in his garage and that would have been the end of it.
                1. ivan2022
                  ivan2022 16 December 2021 15: 59
                  0
                  And this is so. Anyone works for normal people. "system", and rather than a mind and conscience is dumb, they will search for a "correct system" for a hundred years
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 16 December 2021 17: 40
                  -11
                  "Whole branches of industry in the USSR were threatened, trillions of dollars were taken to the West, and a lot of enterprises that were operating normally were closed." Which industries of the USSR were destroyed and what modern did they produce? Brought to the West trillions of dollars - From 2000 to 2015, almost 2.5 trillion dollars of foreign direct indirect investments were attracted to Russia.
                  "They closed a lot of quite normally working enterprises" There are examples - all those who normally worked then continue to work to this day will not let the hens laying the golden eggs for meat.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 20: 04
                    +6
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    foreign direct investment

                    So direct or indirect? wink Again you, Vadik, are cheating with numbers.
                    Talk about investments, but keep quiet about withdrawing funds.
                    And bypass the investment structure. Basically, all investments are the purchase of enterprises in the mining and processing industry, which exports the property of Russia abroad. In Russia, not a single gold mine remained in state ownership. Not a single enterprise of the full production cycle has been created for these investments.
                    https://kommersant-ru.turbopages.org/kommersant.ru/s/doc/4770533

                    http://fincan.ru/articles/28_ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-ctatistika-po-godam/
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 20 December 2021 21: 45
                      -3
                      I mean direct and indirect investments - you are talking about the import and export of capital - and you are not aware of it, this is the dividend received from the profit here, this is the payment of foreign state debts, this is foreign profit from investments from the factories opened here, it is not only the profits laundered and exported by our own ... Not a single enterprise of the full production cycle was created for these investments. There are few such enterprises left in the world - since their products cost a lot of money, now most of them work in cooperation because it is easier to produce products to certify and it will be cheaper in cost for the end consumer.
                      and your left-hand source in the form of Kommersant is not interesting to me, I have the only and official Rosstat foreign direct investment

                      And once again I repeat, do not meddle in macroeconomics in investment and production, this is not yours. And zaponi all countries invest in each other and every day withdraw capital and business will not keep all the money - eggs in one basket - the country of Russia is the same.
            3. military_cat
              military_cat 16 December 2021 08: 51
              -1
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              And if we knock out state support from them in the form of lobbying (the most obvious), then what will be left of efficiency there?

              Do state-owned companies have problems with state support or lobbying? If not, then what are they lacking in order to be represented in the lists of the most successful companies on a par with non-state ones?
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 09: 07
                +5
                Quote: military_cat
                Do state-owned companies have problems with state support or lobbying?
                The problem is that state-owned companies are often forced to pull in low-profit and even unprofitable industries that are not at all interesting to private owners. And lobbying just goes to the detriment of the Group of Companies, because in our country, in any case, profitable divisions bite off from the Group of Companies in favor of those who are especially close.
                1. military_cat
                  military_cat 16 December 2021 09: 26
                  -1
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  The problem is that state-owned companies are often forced to pull in low-profit and even unprofitable industries that are not at all interesting to private owners.

                  The question is, specifically, why state-owned companies are underrepresented among the successful ones. If state-owned companies were engaged exclusively in unprofitable industries, then this is one thing. But they are also engaged in oil and gas, and information technology, and electronics, and where else there is money.
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 09: 33
                    0
                    Quote: military_cat
                    The question is, specifically, why state-owned companies are underrepresented among the successful ones.

                    And a counter question: do these successful companies, in principle, have government counterparts? From the same countries with the same operating conditions?
                    And one more addition, remembering the success, let's remember the failures and compare - how many private companies went bankrupt and how many state ones.
                    1. military_cat
                      military_cat 16 December 2021 09: 55
                      0
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      Do these successful companies have a counter-question in principle, do they have government counterparts? From the same countries with the same operating conditions?

                      Well, let it be, for example, Yandex and the national search engine Sputnik,

                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      And one more addition, remembering the success, let's remember the failures and compare - how many private companies went bankrupt and how many state ones.

                      Failure is the need to pull (at the expense of others) an ineffective enterprise instead of giving the people employed there an opportunity to find a more worthy use for their work, knowledge and skills.
                      1. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 16: 22
                        -1
                        Quote: military_cat
                        Well, let it be, for example, Yandex and the national search engine Sputnik,

                        Oh, a whole one example, but somehow strange, because "Sputnik" is as "national" as the chain of stores "Magnit" is "federal", if only because it was developed by a subsidiary of LLC "Rostelecom", i.e. a private shop.

                        Quote: military_cat
                        Failure is the need to pull (at the expense of others) an ineffective enterprise instead of giving the people employed there an opportunity to find a more worthy use for their work, knowledge and skills.

                        What are you talking about, okay social and cultural life, but what can you say about mine rescuers, for example? There were private traders, however, if they did not fill up the case, then they greatly lost the quality.
                        Or what can you say about the unprofitableness of Russian Railways passenger transportation? Unlike container ones, for example, they are unprofitable. What, offer to privatize or refuse? So no one is eager to privatize, this is not container shipping.
                      2. military_cat
                        military_cat 17 December 2021 01: 49
                        0
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        if only because it was developed by a subsidiary of Rostelecom LLC, i.e. private shop

                        Perhaps I will just leave you to continue to live in your magical wonderful world.
                      3. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 17 December 2021 03: 25
                        -1
                        Quote: military_cat
                        Perhaps I will just leave you to continue to live in your magical wonderful world.

                        A world ruled by facts is not so magical.
                2. Evgeny Ivanov_5
                  Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 December 2021 18: 45
                  0
                  If AvtoVAZ had not been lobbied for, then the fate of the rest of the car industry would have befallen it. For state-owned companies this means continuous lobbying of their interests, billions of injections and a low level of achievements, because the state will still fill it up anyway. Why does Musk fly on his own money, while Rogozin ruins project after project and no breakthrough launch vehicle or breakthrough technology from Soviet times? Has Chubais developed a lot of nanotechnology? I just collected debts under state guarantees.
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 20 December 2021 22: 01
                    -3
                    What projects did Rogozin ditch - can you give details?
                3. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 20 December 2021 21: 59
                  -1
                  The state is not happy to pull all low-profit or unprofitable industries in the same way - if they are not strategic or critically important in terms of their products.
          2. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 08: 22
            +6
            Oh yes, I forgot to add the axiom of "efficiency" - "privatization of profits, nationalization of losses."
          3. moscowp
            moscowp 16 December 2021 08: 26
            +2
            Yes, I can see paternalism and infantilism are ineradicable in Soviet people. Belief in a certain Santa Claus in the person of the state, who will come and effectively build and manage everything, apparently has a certain appeal
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 09: 28
              +6
              Quote: moscowp
              Yes, I can see paternalism and infantilism are ineradicable in Soviet people. Belief in a certain Santa Claus in the person of the state, who will come and effectively build and manage everything, apparently has a certain appeal

              And this is what? Or will you argue that an employee in a private company run by a private manager is more free and entrepreneurial than the same employee in a state company?
              1. Zoer
                Zoer 16 December 2021 10: 46
                +2
                A private manager will feel material responsibility / interest. Accordingly, he will recruit a team of professionals to his staff, and not matchmakers / brothers who have barely mastered 3 classes. I have personal examples in the state structure and in a private company. The difference is enormous.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 16: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: Zoer
                  A private manager will feel material responsibility / interest. Accordingly, he will recruit a team of professionals to his staff, and not matchmakers / brothers who have barely mastered 3 classes.

                  It's just ridiculous, quite often the managers of private traders keep their dear but extremely stupid employees and pull them, especially if the owner does not delve into the essence of the matter.
                  Quote: Zoer
                  I have personal examples in the state structure and in a private company.
                  I have opposite examples before my eyes. Although, of course, the difference is far from colossal. This is if you have not embellished, of course.
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 16 December 2021 17: 43
                    -5
                    Smart ones, if they pull, put them to work in those places where there will be no damage to the company from their activities.
                  2. Zoer
                    Zoer 17 December 2021 09: 15
                    +2
                    This means that this private company, one way or another, sits on the state order and is engaged in cutting the budget. That the essence is the same modern Russian state-owned company. For example, General Satellite, a manufacturer of satellite TV equipment, is completely different. Because they do not exist at the expense of government orders. And by the way, already their chips in Gusev are being packaged using SIP technology. Crystals Taiwan, yes. But at least something ...
            2. ivan2022
              ivan2022 16 December 2021 16: 56
              +2
              Quote: moscowp
              Yes, I can see paternalism and infantilism are ineradicable in Soviet people. Belief in a certain Santa Claus in the person of the state, who will come and effectively build and manage everything, apparently has a certain appeal


              As mentioned here, infantilism is precisely what gives rise to market fanaticism. After reading your verses, we come to this .... The USSR gave 15-20% of world GDP, now the Russian Federation gives 3%. From paternalism or what?
              I'll tell you what; to work people need intelligence and a desire to work honestly. It's all ! If it is, there will be a result for any "system". If there is no conscience, then under socialism there will be "no initiative", but under capitalism they will be thieves. If there is also no mind, they will search for a "correct system" for a hundred years. Who wants to work, it is "correct" - it will automatically turn out right away, like all the peoples of the world, except for one "helluva lot" ...
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 16 December 2021 18: 00
                -5
                "After reading your verses, we come to this .... The USSR gave 15-20% of world GDP." Do not confuse the planned distribution command economy - and the market one with the market business planning based on real demand - the former has production according to the plan for five years ahead, production for the sake of production needs the goods are not needed in those volumes, they put them in warehouses and then distributed them to everyone in need for thanks and unequal barter to half of the world and the second, which produces the goods for which there is a demand and the production of which is profitable and they trade in goods exclusively for money, there is barter, but it is equivalent to the value of goods. And the current 3% is much better than the 15 - 20% that was 30 years ago, since the first is profit and the second is losses, and yes, over the past 30 years, the world economy has not stood still, and if the USSR had somehow miraculously survived, it had would be a maximum of 10% of world GDP - Japan in the 87th USSR in terms of GDP moved from second place to third and later it would have been moved to fourth place by China.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. ivan2022
                  ivan2022 16 December 2021 22: 01
                  -2
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  "After reading your verses, we come to this .... The USSR gave 15-20% of world GDP." Do not confuse the planned distribution command economy - and the market one with the market business planning, which is based on real demand.

                  And where did you get the childish postulate that "a distributive planned economy cannot be based on real demand?" Was there an instruction from above that "it shouldn't be so"? Like the fact that - not normal people lived in the USSR, but scoops who did not understand that before producing, you need to understand how much is needed ... This is already "folk epics" ...This is the infantilism of "shirnar-masses" in its purest form ....

                  Heh ... heh ... there was a deficit in the USSR, but immediately after Yeltsin's decree in early 1992, it disappeared in a week ... Where did the goods that "were not in the USSR" come from?
                  Do you believe that in the USSR almost 300 million ate virtual food, and then, as in biblical miracles, it immediately "materialized" by Gaidar's spell?
                  Do you believe that you can simultaneously "be able to make rockets and at the same time not be able to make sausage because of the" command system "? The missiles in the USSR were also" worse than the current ones "or were they real?

                  Real demand is easily taken into account in any system at the request of those wishing to buy! Any planning in any system is based on this. The Japanese, for example, learned planning from the USSR and were able to achieve brilliant results in large firms. In the context of universal control, network planning, and the use of databases, it is easier to take into account both supply and demand.
                  It has been hammered into your head that market relations begin with an analysis of supply and demand ...
                  In fact, they start at the market price, which absolutely does not reflect the cost of production.


                  In the USSR, you could buy a co-op. three-ruble note apartment for 10 thousand rubles in installments. Not virtual, but real. In dollars it was also about 10 thousand. And now they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars. At a cost no higher than 40 years ago. Here is an example of the true reason why you were brainwashed ... or do you seriously think that everything was done in 1991 for the sake of Truth and for the real strengthening of the country's economy?
                  For your sake, did Yeltsin dance "Kalinka" in Berlin and report to Bush about his successes? You are naive as a child ..... "ЯПлакал ....". You are simply living in the virtual world of liberal propaganda. Serfs of the 17th century saw a "good master" who did everything "for real" .........
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 20 December 2021 22: 56
                    -2
                    And where did you get the childish postulate It is the most real - since the planned distribution economy with command control that the USSR had is a state machine with a monopoly over everything - in such a system there is no competition, everything belongs to the state, it is also a producer and there is no real demand in it there it is replaced by the state plan and distribution, but its strong point was and will be the implementation of large-scale projects, the construction of highways for nuclear power plants, hydroelectric power plants of the ports of cities, etc., it will never work effectively for the consumer, ensuring his demand because this is a huge machine if there is real consumption, it will already be a market economy like this as soon as a private trader can meet the needs of the population, he is not a huge state machine, but there is a lot of it and he can do everything based on the real demand of the population.
                    but immediately after Yeltsin's decree in early 1992, he disappeared in a week ... Where did the goods that "were not in the USSR" come from? on underestimated as in the USSR they did it - working at a loss to the budget which in the 86th and shot.
                    Do you believe that in the USSR almost 300 million ate virtual food, and then, like in biblical miracles, it immediately "materialized" by Gaidar's spell? - They only ate it constantly, and therefore the USSR imported it, closing part of the deficit, purchasing it for the same oil tanks with modern equipment, consumer goods, and so on.
                    The Japanese, for example, learned planning from the USSR and were able to achieve brilliant results in large firms. You are confusing economics again - the Japanese have a market economy with market-based business planning, they have nothing even close to it and did not have anything similar to the economy of the USSR.
                    In the context of universal control, network planning, and the use of databases, it is easier to take into account both supply and demand. Yeah, only the product or service itself and their diversity can only be created by a private trader for the broad masses, which we are now seeing - a huge state car doesn’t need its scale.
                    It has been hammered into your head that market relations begin with an analysis of supply and demand ...
                    In fact, they start at the market price, which absolutely does not reflect the cost of production. They didn’t drive me into anything - it’s true, before you produce something, you need to study the market and determine if your product or service is needed in order to estimate the size of investments in production and the approximate return on investment at such a price, taking into account competitors and then calculate the approximate profit - and the market price for You see it appears out of thin air by itself, is it not the result of competition and cost?
                    In the USSR, you could buy a co-op. three-ruble note apartment for 10 thousand rubles in installments. This opportunity was given to very few, and this apartment was far from the best somewhere in a barrack on the outskirts of the normal cost much more than 10000 grandfather on the 21st Volga in the 63rd for 23000 he bought the debts he gave for 10 years.
                    Or do you seriously think that everything was done in 1991 for the sake of Truth and for the real strengthening of the country's economy? No, it's just that the country returned to a harsh and cruel reality where there is nothing for free where you yourself are the creator of your happiness and there is nothing that you don’t think and the state will decide everything for you - these were really childish conditions and in which they thought that if everything would be given out on the right and to the left for thanks and not receive anything in return for more than what you gave away, you can exist and develop it's like believing in a bottomless bucket of water from which you can endlessly distribute water - in the end, the USSR went bankrupt and covered itself with a copper basin, but the costs became more than income.
                    "For your sake, Yeltsin danced Kalinka in Berlin and reported to Bush about his successes? You are naive as a child ....." YaPlakal .... "You simply live in the virtual world of liberal propaganda. I don’t care about Yeltsin, he has probably been dancing for a long time in the next world, and maybe not.
                    "You are simply living in the virtual world of liberal propaganda." True, maybe you live in a fictitious world where the jelly rivers and milk banks with which the red borscht washed you and the rest of the brains with the introduction of a utopian society - which has never existed and will not exist as long as all people are different and have freedom of action, choice and development in the system of commodity money relations and private property, and for this we are not serfs, but you are your invented utopias.
              2. Zoer
                Zoer 17 December 2021 09: 21
                0
                Yes, well said, and even true! But, all without exception people are not smart and honest. On the other hand, the system will work and develop in the way it is controlled. Is not it? So, for some reason, it turns out that the system is not controlled by smart, not honest and shameless people.
            3. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 19: 19
              +2
              Quote: moscowp
              Yes, I'll see paternalism and infantilism are ineradicable in Soviet people

              And why exactly in the Soviet? Is the expectation of high-quality and competent management of the economy and state property something out of the ordinary?
              We pay all taxes, and maintain the state apparatus, and have the right to demand an account.
              In the west, the population is more demanding of the state.
      3. VicktorVR
        VicktorVR 16 December 2021 09: 18
        +8
        Yes, the same one to one.
        They also saw kickbacks with contractors, arrange a breeding ground for relatives and acquaintances, and also dump into the sunset when everything is going on in the beard.
        1. Zoer
          Zoer 16 December 2021 10: 49
          -1
          Maybe the same way they saw and seated. But the output results, for some reason, are completely different.
      4. Reklastik
        Reklastik 16 December 2021 10: 37
        +6
        ... government officials are an order of magnitude less effective, this is practically an axiom
        - that is, it is from somewhere taken unprovable statement, tk. is it self-evident, taken on faith?
      5. 28st region
        28st region 16 December 2021 12: 42
        +1
        Your sarcasm is not understood
      6. Hlavaty
        Hlavaty 16 December 2021 13: 42
        +7
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Well, the fact that government officials are an order of magnitude less effective is practically an axiom.

        It's time to get rid of these illusions, inspired by all sorts of Chubais.
        Look at Ukraine. So "effective private managers" (Kolomoisky, Akhmetov, etc.) came to power and what have they turned the country into? At first they robbed to oblivion, and then they simply poured it into the West out of stupidity. And what do we see now? And the country is dying, and they themselves are losing their billions.
        If we compare what Ukraine achieved in 30 years of independence and what the USSR achieved in its first 30 years (1917-1947), then there are big doubts about the effectiveness of these managers.

        USSR in 30 years:
        - won two wars against the united West (there were invaders from 14 countries in the Civil War on the territory of the USSR, Hitler brought almost all of Europe with him to the Patriotic War)
        - twice rebuilt the country from post-war devastation
        - and the starting conditions: devastation and war


        Starting conditions of Ukraine: the richest republic of the USSR, practically all branches of science and industry (from nails to planes, missiles and aircraft carriers), the richest minerals, developed agriculture, a huge army, mountains of weapons, and most importantly - a peaceful life.
        Ukraine's results over 30 years
        - a country in deep crisis,
        - science and industry are dying,
        - there is a war in the country.

        And what is the "efficiency" of these private managers?
        1. Evgeny Ivanov_5
          Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 December 2021 18: 52
          -5
          More examples can be cited. USA for example. Where are the state companies here? Can you name? Maybe Microsoft or Lockheed Martin? There you can only talk about a state order at private enterprises and a competition for its implementation.
          1. ivan2022
            ivan2022 16 December 2021 23: 04
            -2
            Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
            More examples can be cited. USA for example. Where are the state companies here? Can you name? Maybe Microsoft or Lockheed Martin?

            In the USA they live like in the USA, not because Lockheed Martin is there, but because they are Americans!
            In Africa, they live like in Africa, not because they were conquered, but because from ancient times the leaders of the tribes sold their people to slave traders for a box of whiskey .... The civil war for freedom - the Russians waited - after all, the "good tsar" who freed them.
            For whom Lockheed Martin also works, and for whom and their own oil and gas fields, the "oil curse" .... Norway has oil and there is no "curse", one and the wind is always in the back, and the other and his own testicles interfere ... So the world is arranged ...
            1. Hlavaty
              Hlavaty 17 December 2021 16: 34
              +1
              Quote: ivan2022
              Russia because in the same year, when the negroes of the United States rose to the Civil War for freedom, the Russians waited for a "good tsar" who freed them.

              And as a result, segregation in the United States was finally abolished only half a century ago, the last state to ratify the anti-slavery amendment did so only in 2013.
              And blacks continue to feel segregated today. Even though they are Americans :)

              How different peoples and the state live is influenced by a bunch of factors. And therefore, there is no universal recipe for prosperity that would suit absolutely all peoples.
      7. skeptic
        skeptic 16 December 2021 15: 11
        +7
        Don't you think that it was the private New bourgeoisie that ruined all science and industry? When specialists spread rot on lawlessness, and responded to the indignation that there were heaps of people behind the fence, you don't like it - scratch. When unique industries were cut and driven to scrap metal to buy a paradise, over the hill. Maybe the fact is that there are no qualified managers for "effective managers"? According to Lobaev and many others who make the state stronger, one thing can be said - this is the future of Russia. The West has always, through its special services, put a spoke in the wheels of the country's development from time immemorial. When slander, denunciations, sometimes direct liquidation. Sometimes similar "checkers" ...
        The main trouble is that there is no one to explain to these new bourgeoisie that when Russia falls, they will be gutted unambiguously. For the West, they are, for now, fattening pigs to the festive table of business sharks.
      8. Vadim237
        Vadim237 16 December 2021 16: 50
        -9
        Of course, state managers are much less effective than non-state ones, since the latter are not burdened with bureaucratic red tape, approvals, and so on, the latter have more freedom of action and decisions; a more compact system of organization.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 16 December 2021 19: 27
          +6
          Quote: Vadim237
          Of course, government managers are much less efficient than non-government managers.

          Stop lying, Vadik. Non-state managers are effective only under the conditions of our feudal-colonial capitalism, when state managers are not at all responsible for their work.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 20 December 2021 23: 15
            -2
            Shut up better "effective" you could not even cope with the disc store - I personally and the rest of 48 businessmen, something no feudal lord invented by you, colonial capitalism, does not interfere with medium-sized business to engage in and develop it - only the idleness of state officials in the localities interferes, and whatever we do, we will be more efficient state ones, since they themselves created their own production facilities and we are not constrained by constant reporting and bureaucratic red tape, which the state will constantly demand from its managers - who really will not have any significant incentives other than grandmothers being at the state-owned enterprise today they come tomorrow they will not care because neither they created.
      9. seacap
        seacap 17 December 2021 15: 31
        +3
        Where is our fishing fleet, the aluminum industry and power plants of Siberia, the aerospace industry, research institutes and enterprises after your "effective managers", what has created, in addition to budget deriban schemes, the red-haired "beacon and guru" of management? And here are examples of public administration and professionalism, from the transformation of a war-scorched territory with a totally illiterate population into a leading industrial power in 20 years, which defeated the united "Western crusade". The same state managers and managers have restored thousands of cities from the ruins over 10 years, created a nuclear shield, were the first to explore space, created a totally literate society, etc. etc. And what are the achievements of modern effective managers in 30 years? Lacking significant achievements, which are forced to hide behind the achievements and victories of "that country and people" which they hate and despise? without any external aggression, it is not clear on what basis, territories abundantly watered with the blood of our great ancestors, for some reason declared by some states, have been squandered, how can one cut off a hand and declare it an independent rational organism, a plunder of the state and its resources unprecedented in history has been organized, a hereditary estate society was created, with a degrading low intellectual nobility, stupefied by dough, irresponsibility and complete impunity, deeply contemptuous of the people and the country, completely uninterested in their development and prosperity. So where and which managers are better, who, out of nothing in the most difficult conditions of a complete blockade, created the most powerful power or those who killed the leading world power, and without any external military aggression, gave it up for plundering and carrying out genocide of the population, covering all this with verbiage and constant lies, and only for the sake of greed, philistinism and personal ambitions, lust for power. The question is rhetorical and the answer is clear.
    2. MDSW
      MDSW 16 December 2021 07: 00
      -3
      "They do not honor the Author" - Is the author wrong about something?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 07: 22
        +6
        Quote: MDSW
        "They do not honor the Author" - Is the author wrong about something?

        At least in the "passages" that I gave.
    3. Stas157
      Stas157 16 December 2021 07: 40
      +20
      Feudal relations in Russian "capitalism".

      We have any business, when it becomes large and tasty, the "businessmen" affiliated with the Kremlin take over for themselves. Euroset, VKontakte, Magnet, Red and White.

      Perhaps even here they want to get a stake in Lobaev.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 08: 12
        +10
        Quote: Stas157
        Feudal relations in Russian "capitalism".

        The archaization of the country is also visible in the intensified revival of the "estates" and in the state support of clericalism.
      2. dauria
        dauria 16 December 2021 09: 26
        +5
        Perhaps even here they want to get a stake in Lobaev.

        Or maybe everything is simpler? If they check everyone after some emergency? Fire - firefighters are running. Gas explosion - gas workers are running. The crane fell - Gosgortekhnadzor is running. Shock killed - Energonadzor runs. All indiscriminately. Yes, even in a company with the Oblsovprofom. Well, of course with filmmakers, as without them ... laughing
        What's the problem? The inspector did not take the diameter of the reinforcement out of his head. Let the deputy director hire a competent one. And better with connections. laughing Or he will learn everything from PUE to cranes and the diameter of the armature in the gun. And he talks to the prosecutor himself.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 16 December 2021 10: 01
          -3
          I am a reaper and a blacksmith and a woodcutter cook ... a jack of all trades.
          Administrators and directors are firing positions.
        2. Stas157
          Stas157 16 December 2021 16: 47
          +7
          Quote: dauria
          What's the problem?

          Find an interview with the founder of Krasny and Bely, Studennikov. He described how he was forced to sell a controlling stake in KiB and merge with Bristol. About the mask show from the state authorities and how it all ended when he gave up and sold a significant part of the shares.
          In general, a criminal was hanged on Durov. Galitsky is silent, like a fish, about how Magnet sold, but everyone saw his tears when he parted with his business ...

          Do you think these fabulously wealthy people did not have money to hire a competent deputy to correctly determine the "diameter of the reinforcement"?))
          1. Shahno
            Shahno 16 December 2021 16: 52
            0
            // Durov was generally charged with a criminal offense. Galitsky is silent, like a fish, about how Magnet sold, but everyone saw his tears when he parted with his business. //
            By the way, what's wrong with the Magnet? And then it worked, I don't know anything.
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 16 December 2021 17: 00
              +2
              Quote: Shahno
              By the way, what's wrong with the Magnet?

              After the banksters of VTB began to own Magnet, things did not go very well. The magnet is now pouring into Pyaterochka. And VTB decided to dump the non-core asset.
          2. your1970
            your1970 17 December 2021 12: 10
            0
            Quote: Stas157

            Do you think these fabulously wealthy people did not have money to hire a competent deputy to correctly determine the "diameter of the reinforcement"?))

            Let's just say - create YOUR WEAPON production in our country is nonsense.
            It is clear that someone gave the go-ahead to Lobaev ...
            And now, if now they are spreading rot to take away the company, it means that the progenitor of the company flew out of politics, in general ...
            But this is not observed ..
            Therefore, I think that this is a test within the framework of "Kazan and other shooters" .. No more ...
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 17 December 2021 16: 24
              +1
              Quote: your1970
              Therefore, I think that this is a test within the framework of "Kazan and other shooters" ..No more...

              Write about this to Lobaev. Calm him down! And then he is a poor fellow, after all, does not even know about it when he writes that they are going to be a nightmare for his company !!)))
        3. Pandiurin
          Pandiurin 16 December 2021 19: 01
          +1
          Quote: dauria
          Perhaps even here they want to get a stake in Lobaev.

          Or maybe everything is simpler? If they check everyone after some emergency? Fire - firefighters are running. Gas explosion - gas workers are running. The crane fell - Gosgortekhnadzor is running. Shock killed - Energonadzor runs. All indiscriminately. Yes, even in a company with the Oblsovprofom. Well, of course with filmmakers, as without them ... laughing
          What's the problem? The inspector did not take the diameter of the reinforcement out of his head. Let the deputy director hire a competent one. And better with connections. laughing Or he will learn everything from PUE to cranes and the diameter of the armature in the gun. And he talks to the prosecutor himself.


          Come on.
          It is clear that you can always get to the bottom, it is obvious that if it is really due to the difference in the thickness of the reinforcement of 0.1 mm, then this is within the range of the size of the building reinforcement. This is often the case for an electrical wire according to documents from the factory with a core thickness of 1 mm. sq. And if you measure it, it turns out to be a little less. If everything is as described, then they clearly got to the bottom, in principle, even if the violation is insignificant, they could give an order to eliminate and not close. The company either eliminated or won in court that the claim was not substantiated. There would be no need to close production.
          1. your1970
            your1970 17 December 2021 19: 55
            0
            Quote: Pandiurin
            This is often the case for an electrical wire according to documents from the factory with a core thickness of 1 mm. sq. And if you measure it, it turns out to be a little less

            The diameter is strictly fixed by the standard for guns.
            However, it is strange that this reason was relevant even 15 years ago.
    4. Military77
      Military77 16 December 2021 08: 44
      +17
      Well, the production of exclusive bolts, albeit ultra-precise, is far from the most "high-tech"

      And in hi-tech, with the existing economic and political vertical, on which small and medium-sized businesses were strung like a stake, not a single reasonably thinking person in our country will invest. If the project has a payback period of more than 10 years, and this is all high-tech, then the unpredictability of the behavior of the authorities puts an end to any prospects. A separate line is that if you suddenly built a successful business, that is, 99,99% that uncles from government agencies will come and ask to share "in an amicable way"
    5. Zoer
      Zoer 16 December 2021 10: 39
      -1
      What's wrong with these passages? Everything, as it is, said so.
      And what does "not the most high-tech" mean? How do you rate? Not enough nano technologies?
    6. 210ox
      210ox 16 December 2021 11: 39
      +3
      About the Soviet watch, it's in vain.
    7. shahor
      shahor 16 December 2021 17: 44
      0
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      no credit is given to the author.

      These shortcomings do no credit to the economic model of the USSR, and not to the author, who rightly points to them.
    8. ZeeD
      ZeeD 17 December 2021 01: 49
      0
      The author fulfills the multidirectional agenda of the VO authors. Like, there should be different authors: both patriotic uraur and sad all-scum. So he broadcasts: everything is bad, everything is lost. Someone else will be urapatriotic.

      It's a pity a lot of taste and personal thoughts, far from objectivity. But everyone is entitled to their point of view.
    9. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 17 December 2021 04: 00
      0
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      And here are stupid passages like:
      It's all about the command centralized management system, geared towards the concentration of resources on mega- and hyperprojects.

      However, the mass market in the Soviet Union was tight. They did not know how to make reliable cars, household appliances, even wristwatches of the proper quality did not work out.

      Whatever one may say, state managers cannot be as effective as independent ones.

      no credit is given to the author.


      Did he lie about something? If you do accuse, then be so kind as to give detailed reasons for your claims on each point. negative
    10. Alexfly
      Alexfly 18 December 2021 11: 52
      0
      Vladimir, what is wrong with these statements? Or have you forgotten how you lay near Moskvich for a week to visit relatives 500 km away? Or are you a supporter of Chubais?
  2. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 16 December 2021 05: 20
    +17
    Here the FSB and counterintelligence have to work ... find out from whom the order for Lobaev came ... shake the chain starting with the inspector and then you will see interesting names emerge.
    I have two versions, either competitors or foreign friends ... Lobaev interferes with something ... although someone might want to milk his business. what
    The inspector is just an executor, he was ordered to nightmare Lobaev's office, and he has a nightmare ... using far-fetched pretexts smile.
    If you wish, you can find comments in any office ... you understand the sunlight falls in the wrong place or the door lock opens tightly ... just come up with a comment.
    1. Sergey Gusak
      Sergey Gusak 16 December 2021 08: 04
      +19
      "The main thing in investigative actions is not to get out on ourselves."
      1. Revival
        Revival 16 December 2021 12: 11
        +3
        Outstripped, damn it)))
    2. saigon
      saigon 16 December 2021 09: 02
      +12
      Most of all, I was pleased with this 0.1mm on the diameter of the reinforcement, just class!
      For reinforcement, the tolerance according to GOST allows deviation.
    3. Plate
      Plate 16 December 2021 10: 34
      +3
      Why might foreigners need it? Judging by the performance characteristics, Lobaev's rifles are really world-class, but they are still not strategic, as for me a product, for the sake of which it is worth using an agent network and thereby risking.
  3. ximkim
    ximkim 16 December 2021 05: 46
    +8
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Here the FSB and counterintelligence have to work ... find out from whom the order for Lobaev came ... shake the chain starting with the inspector and then you will see interesting names emerge.
    I have two versions, either competitors or foreign friends ... Lobaev interferes with something ... although someone might want to milk his business. what
    The inspector is just an executor, he was ordered to nightmare Lobaev's office, and he has a nightmare ... using far-fetched pretexts smile.
    If you wish, you can find comments in any office ... you understand the sunlight falls in the wrong place or the door lock opens tightly ... just come up with a comment.

    hi
    The authorities see that Lobaev is raising his head in the production of weapons, so they gave the command to crush him.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 16 December 2021 06: 06
      +8
      Not necessary...
      under the authority it is necessary to look at a specific person ... who he is and what is his interest in Lobaev.
      Maybe a person just wanted money ... maybe the order from above was lowered to so many fines and remarks per month to master.
      In any case, first it is necessary to establish the interest of the civil servant in excessive zeal in the service. smile
      And I wish Lobaev patience and endurance in this matter.
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 16 December 2021 06: 39
      +22
      The authorities see that Lobaev is raising his head in the production of weapons, so they gave the command to crush him.

      In-in. Try to organize the production of drone UAVs privately.
      All are jailed, half for the production of weapons, and the other for treason. laughing
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 16 December 2021 07: 25
        +2
        Quote: Arzt
        In-in. Try to organize the production of drone UAVs privately.
        All are jailed, half for the production of weapons, and the other for treason.


        As if "Kronstadt" is a joint-stock company, it means in many ways (at least) a private organization.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 16 December 2021 08: 40
          -1
          As if "Kronstadt" is a joint-stock company, it means in many ways (at least) a private organization.

          As if. laughing

      2. KCA
        KCA 16 December 2021 07: 29
        +5
        Truth? But what about Kronstadt, the developer and manufacturer of UAVs, including drums? An absolutely private company owned by AFK Sistema. Will you order them to be shot?
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 16 December 2021 08: 36
          -3
          Truth? But what about Kronstadt, the developer and manufacturer of UAVs, including drums? An absolutely private company owned by AFK Sistema. Will you order them to be shot?

          I'm talking about a strike UAV.
          Nobody forbids aircraft modeling. wink
          1. KCA
            KCA 16 December 2021 08: 49
            +4
            What's interesting? How long have they started hanging KABs and PTRs on model aircraft?
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 16 December 2021 09: 35
              -2
              What's interesting? How long have they started hanging KABs and PTRs on model aircraft?

              It's all hollow. For advertising.
              Show-off, in short. fellow
              1. KCA
                KCA 16 December 2021 09: 39
                +1
                This is wrong, it is necessary to show combat KABs at the exhibition, preferably with fuses screwed in, and you can also launch it directly from the pallet into the rockets, they will spin so merrily, and how people will dance
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 16 December 2021 09: 57
                  -2
                  This is wrong, it is necessary to show combat KABs at the exhibition, preferably with fuses screwed in, and you can also launch it directly from the pallet into the rockets, they will spin so merrily, and how people will dance

                  Not in this case. While the chicken is in the nest.

                  Even if it works out, they will be handed over to Sukhoi.
                  1. KCA
                    KCA 16 December 2021 10: 14
                    +1
                    If not in the subject, do not write nonsense, which "Sukhoi"? In my city of Dubna, "Kronstadt" is building a plant for the production of "Orions" and other UAVs, including those that are still in development, more precisely the second half of the plant, where they will manufacture airframe parts and carry out assembly
            2. sifgame
              sifgame 16 December 2021 12: 22
              +1
              Not real, model, does not fly, in a single copy, the enemy has 100500 pieces already, bayraktar is better
        2. Revival
          Revival 16 December 2021 12: 14
          0
          AFK "Sistema", as it were, answers your question
  4. would
    would 16 December 2021 06: 25
    +17
    It is absolutely incomprehensible why this news appeared on the site only now and why it was written about Lobaev. After each mass execution, Rosgvardia officers come to a great many weapons facilities in the country and not only begin to find fault, but find violations in what they themselves had previously allowed! With the subsequent closure of the entire facility and the imposition of huge fines. Only the lazy, blind and deaf did not shout about this from the arms industry. The industry expects the same actions after the explosion in Serpukhovo. Where is the connection, you ask? And where was the connection when, after the smoothbore shootings, pseudo-rifled calibers were actually banned?

    Therefore, the author's conclusion that this is supposedly an order of competitors

    After all, there are many Lobaev Arms competitors in the country that specialize in precision weapons. Someone did not like the robotic experiments of Lobaev's engineers - after all, the company aims at a new niche where its players are present.


    is fundamentally wrong. They came to everyone, not only to Lobaev.
    1. would
      would 16 December 2021 06: 30
      +11
      That would not be unfounded

      After the massacre at the Perm State National Research University, which killed six people, the controlling authorities started checking the owners of the weapons. As a result, Rosgvardia officers sealed the safes in the Dynamo shooting range, where the sports weapons of a number of educational organizations were kept. Among them is the arsenal of the Olympic reserve school "Start", which trains biathletes. The heads of several institutions were fined 50 thousand rubles, and legal entities - 300 thousand (for violation of the rules for storing weapons and ammunition). Sergei Chegodaev, director of the Rifle Training Center, says that earlier representatives of the National Guard themselves issued permits for the joint storage of weapons and did not express any complaints during many inspections. He considers the actions of the department employees illegal.


      https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5007861
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 16 December 2021 06: 45
        +5
        Hmm ... what no words.
        Typical work ... no matter what happens ... tighten the screws where possible to the stop ... obvious reassurance of the Rosgvardia bosses ... and it is absolutely not where it is necessary.
    2. Hagen
      Hagen 16 December 2021 06: 52
      +7
      Quote: rait
      After each mass execution, Rosgvardia officers come to a great many weapons facilities in the country and not only begin to find fault, but find violations in what they themselves had previously allowed!

      Somehow I talked with the inspector. He lamented: “if I don’t find any comments and draw up an act that everything is fine, then the prosecutor’s check will come and both you and me will get it.”
      1. MikhailRus
        MikhailRus 16 December 2021 07: 33
        +8
        Fire inspections are also carried out on labor activities. My wife is the deputy director for legal relations. So inspectors from the fire department come to her and say that we will not write at least some violations, we will have a check from the prosecutor's office. And from the labor inspectorate, they were given the command to go alphabetically and check all organizations in order to replenish the budget.
  5. nikvic46
    nikvic46 16 December 2021 06: 31
    +4
    I mean by a megaproject the work of several industries and regions, but this is not the case. Everyone sees how spears break under such a phenomenon as warming, and who is running the show there. These are politicians who meddle in science. The same is the case with innovations. Everything is there: foreign equipment, and even foreign specialists, but the technological structure has not been built. All innovations are tested in large enterprises, which are very difficult to rebuild in case of obsolescence. When a finishing enterprise must be serviced by at least thirty small firms .Business lives for one day. It does not support ideas that could bring great income in the future.
    1. parma
      parma 16 December 2021 09: 27
      +1
      Quote: nikvic46
      I mean by a megaproject the work of several industries and regions, but this is not the case. Everyone sees how spears break under such a phenomenon as warming, and who is running the show there. These are politicians who meddle in science. The same is the case with innovations. Everything is there: foreign equipment, and even foreign specialists, but the technological structure has not been built. All innovations are tested in large enterprises, which are very difficult to rebuild in case of obsolescence. When a finishing enterprise must be serviced by at least thirty small firms .Business lives for one day. It does not support ideas that could bring great income in the future.

      And ask yourself why is it so? The state does not need a middle class, because the middle class is people who are wealthy enough to fight for their rights, they have time for something other than trying to make ends meet ... as an example 15-20 years ago, no one really touched the current IT giants - meil, VKontakte, Yandex and they really were able to compete with Western giants in the CIS, even occupy a large part of the market. But over time, as these companies and the founders' fortunes grew, the state took over them, according to statistics, for example, Yandex is no longer the most popular search engine in the post-Soviet space ...
      1. Fanur Galiev
        Fanur Galiev 16 December 2021 10: 32
        +12
        The state does not care about the middle class as well as it does not care about everyone else. Because the state is a superstructure that serves the interests of one particular class - the largest capitalists - the oligarchs of Russia. Everything that is being done in our country, the entire policy of the state, all this is aimed at one thing - to ensure the profit of this very class. The middle class and the businesses it creates are not of particular interest to anyone until they become a sufficiently attractive asset. And as soon as this happens, big business just buys it out and makes it its own. As it happened with all the companies you mentioned.
        1. parma
          parma 16 December 2021 13: 30
          +2
          Quote: Fanur Galiev
          The state does not care about the middle class as well as it does not care about everyone else. Because the state is a superstructure that serves the interests of one particular class - the largest capitalists - the oligarchs of Russia. Everything that is being done in our country, the entire policy of the state, all this is aimed at one thing - to ensure the profit of this very class. The middle class and the businesses it creates are not of particular interest to anyone until they become a sufficiently attractive asset. And as soon as this happens, big business just buys it out and makes it its own. As it happened with all the companies you mentioned.

          This especially fits with the FSB's demand for Durov (then the general director of VKontakte) in 2014 to transfer the personal data of Ukrainian users, his refusal and imminent emigration, and then leaving his post ... and then with the "flattening" of his telegram with such a cute, that the banking system almost collapsed ... well, or the attempts of an email (then already owned by one of the oligarchs) to redeem Vkontakte in 2011-2012 (and then there was the Arab spring and Bolotnaya, who does not remember) ... and many other, funny coincidences ... Again - mine your words do not contradict yours - the middle class has money, which means that the desire and ability to fight for their rights does not suit the "elite" ... and yes, the state is not a superstructure serving the interests of big business, they have a symbiosis in the form of corruption rent - help each other keep the boat from swaying while unloading all the valuables from it onto the ship of the "decaying" west, because making a fortune and living in a country with an underdeveloped legal system is not the same thing ...
        2. Alexander Popov_1963
          Alexander Popov_1963 16 December 2021 19: 12
          -1
          Does the state owe something to the imaginary middle class? If (I believe), in your understanding, the middle class is a private business, so business is business. I found a niche / roof (just kidding), turned out to be a sensible investor and / or manager, formed / retained a team - and done well. Now you are already middle class. And, yes, they already have an eye on you. Spin, spin, share (joke again). How else?
          the trouble with your judgment is that you operate with abstract ideas, point-blank not wanting to see that the state is raising the notorious middle class for itself. Among the managers of state corporations, for example. In the media sphere. Why there? yes, if only because they are controlled and managed. The state should think about the safety of its investments, right? Remind the quality of the middle class of the late 90s and early XNUMXs? Quite a market, considering the realities of that era?
          1. Fanur Galiev
            Fanur Galiev 16 December 2021 20: 01
            +2
            Did I say something that should? The fact of the matter is that the state owes nothing to anyone, except for those who form this state. Namely, the class of the largest capitalists. Everything that is done is done for the benefit of this cohort. As for the middle class in the form of managers and representatives of the media sphere. This category of citizens is nothing more than service personnel or elements of the state apparatus itself, which again serves a certain category of persons. The speech in the commentary, to which I replied, was about a full-fledged middle class that exists in the modern concept - that is, about a successful layer of people engaged in their own business. Not top managers, not oligarchs, but someone smaller.
        3. Fedot
          Fedot 17 December 2021 06: 45
          0
          The governor began to demand gifts ...
          Take yourself a fur coat, so there would be no noise. (Pushkin)
  6. Pankrat25
    Pankrat25 16 December 2021 06: 35
    +5
    This is called unfair competition, when billionaires who have divided this area of ​​business strangle anyone new and independent of them.
  7. Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 16 December 2021 07: 04
    +5
    Yes, fig knows who has more truth here. Controversial article. If there is lawlessness, then let Lobaev file a lawsuit. The court will ask for regulations and standards that apply to the equipment of the room. If the National Guard has abused, he will receive a hat, and if Lobaev sniffs in two holes, eliminates the indicated shortcomings and does not go to court, then they have a place to be. Probably a conscientious inspector.
    At the Listvyazhnaya mine, the inspectors "worked" at one time, too, they worked for fifty dead and for their bunks.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 16 December 2021 07: 14
      -2
      If you find fault with everything, then you can generally close the enterprise ... it's safer ... sorry, there is a risk in everything in our life.
      We went out into the street stumbled and fell back of the head on the curb ... who's to blame?
      Housing department ... the road workers did not put a pillow ... I would have known where the straws would fall down.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 16 December 2021 07: 22
        +5
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        If you find fault with everything, then you can generally close the enterprise ... it's safer ... sorry, there is a risk in everything in our life.
        We went out into the street stumbled and fell back of the head on the curb ... who's to blame?
        Housing department ... the road workers did not put a pillow ... I would have known where the straws would fall down.

        I think that at least fifty families of miners who buried their breadwinners do not agree with you because the inspectors who carried out the inspection did not stop work and did not demand from the mine management to eliminate the identified deficiencies under the threat of being closed for the same 90 days. Everyone has to do their job. hi
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 16 December 2021 08: 03
          -1
          And how to feed the families of miners during downtime ... half of the enterprises and maybe more in Russia need to be closed if we approach this business formally ... capital investments are required to modernize production for new security systems ... will the bourgeois spend his profit?
          This is a rhetorical question and the inspectors will be able to change little here ... this is a systemic problem of the entire state. hi
          The workers know and see all this and nevertheless go to work with the risk of their lives because they have little choice.
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky 16 December 2021 08: 57
            +2
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            And how to feed the families of miners when they are idle... half of the enterprises and maybe more in Russia should be closed if we approach this business formally ... capital investments are required to modernize production for new security systems ... will the bourgeois spend his profits on this?
            This is a rhetorical question and the inspectors will not be able to change much here ... this is a systemic problem of the entire state.
            You contradict yourself. As in the spelling problem with a comma - "Execution cannot be pardoned", only in a different interpretation - "Close can not work."
            Systematic work must be carried out systematically. If the bourgeois can stick a "blind" inspector on each eye for $ 100, then explosions, floods, shootings will continue, and if the inspector is "keen and principled" then with the threat of loss of profit due to a quarterly downtime (90 days), the bourgeois, but he will have to invest something in the security system.
        2. Free wind
          Free wind 16 December 2021 13: 02
          0
          The families of miners will receive the average earnings of their father, up to 18 years old, if they go to study, then until they graduate from one university.
    2. Military77
      Military77 16 December 2021 09: 09
      0
      If the National Guard has abused, he will receive a hat

      Just a hat. And if he, together with his immediate superior, were forced to pay all the losses in 10 times the amount, then there would be no such foolishness.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 16 December 2021 09: 50
        +1
        Quote: Military77
        If the National Guard has abused, he will receive a hat

        Just a hat. And if he, together with his immediate superior, were forced to pay all the losses in 10 times the amount, then there would be no such foolishness.
        Who is against that? If his cant is even responsible according to the law, up to reimbursing the enterprise for lost profits, but what if he is right?
        The article is not straightforward, it is not clear who is lobbying whom more, who is demonstrating excessive nonsense, and who is performing their duties as expected. With a certain skill and practice of manipulating consciousness, it is possible to make a victim of the system out of Chikatilo.
        We unanimously stigmatize an inspector if he closed his eyes to violations, and we just as unanimously stigmatize an inspector for not turning a blind eye to violations and fulfilling his duties. How to be? What are the criteria for assessing?
        1. Military77
          Military77 16 December 2021 22: 33
          -1
          Due to the number, and most importantly, the quality of the "legal" acts of the Russian Federation, it is possible to settle down to a lamppost and put him on life.
          The article is not unambiguous, it is not clear who is lobbying whom more, who is showing excessive nonsense, and who is performing their duties as expected

          As it should be:
          1. A valid certificate of verification of the measuring device (vernier caliper);
          2. Diploma (certificate) on the assignment of a mechanic category to the inspector or on the passage of the corresponding course;
          He would have licked and chewed the grate, and then said that it was not made of that material.
          First, it is necessary to check the verifier that he has the right to verify, knows how and on what basis to verify, has passed the appropriate training, passed the exam, and only after that give him this right.
          And in 99% of us, a tree came, sprouted with roots and no one cares whether it was wrong or not, there is zero responsibility, that I want to turn it over.
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky 16 December 2021 22: 50
            +2
            We are discussing this particular case, described in the article, and 99% of trees sprouting with roots weighed down with zero responsibility are not quite in the subject here. Don’t you? What do you want from me? The slogan is "Down with control, anarchy is the mother of order!" - Will it suit you?
            It seems that you are writing directly from this "Weapons Storage Room" mentioned in the article, and therefore you can say with 100% certainty that the inspector is to blame, not the businessman. Where such confidence? I admit that Lobaev himself confused the frames and began to twist the rasping in front of the inspector's nose, they say, Who are you? I have everything on the ointment ... and as a result, I snatched out an "explanation" in the form of a protocol on violations. Now there are more greyhounds and "businessmen" who have become fitters than a dog has fleas, because neither the Labor Code nor the Administrative Code is an authority until the Criminal Code knocks on their door.
            1. Military77
              Military77 16 December 2021 23: 05
              +1
              The slogan is "Down with control, anarchy is the mother of order!" - Will it suit you?

              I am satisfied with the slogan: "Give control, down with the absurd." None of the inspectors was interested in the question of whether the weapon could ensure the safety of the property located there. We got to the bottom with a bent bar and crooked hands to the fact that the fittings are thinner. And we have two orders of magnitude (100 times) more prudent bureaucrats than prudent businessmen. Moreover, businessmen, as a rule, are greedy for blueprint, and bureaucrats for life.
    3. Revival
      Revival 16 December 2021 12: 20
      +6
      "If there is lawlessness, then let Lobaev file a lawsuit."

      Effective offer.
      Try to challenge the decision on the fine, at least "dirty vehicle numbers", the fine for the "mask".
      Feel the chaos with your own eyes))
  8. Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 16 December 2021 07: 08
    +5
    Roman Skomorokhov has a competitor.
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 16 December 2021 07: 10
    +8
    Everybody gets a nightmare, even rural administrations .. To transfer money from one pocket to another.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 16 December 2021 09: 13
      -6
      Well, I don't know, I believe that the bourgeois will simply close the enterprise and that's it ... let the state invest a lot of money from him.
      In any case, the issue of security cannot be solved by administrative measures alone ... it is necessary to give soft loans to update security systems, to stimulate business with taxes for this business ...
      and it is so easy to tighten the noose around the neck of an entrepreneur and business endlessly.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 16 December 2021 18: 10
        -1
        He will not close anything - you can not count on it. It is necessary to give soft loans to update security systems, to stimulate business for this business with taxes ... some of the "businessmen" guys put all these handouts in their pockets with good practice.
  10. kin
    kin 16 December 2021 07: 17
    +5
    There are a million such screams in the internet. And about those who are associated with weapons and the civilian sector. And also criminal cases are opened and imprisoned.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 December 2021 18: 12
      -7
      They start cases and imprison only those who get into muddy schemes and those who have no good lawyers.
  11. ivan2022
    ivan2022 16 December 2021 07: 19
    +3
    The author is controversial. According to the rules of "good taste", one must throw a stone into the "command system". Why? Because there was such a team. "There is an opinion" ...
    It's not about the "system" scoop, the meaning of which is in the fog. And in the customs and traditions of the 17th century society, in which the commander is not responsible to anyone for anything, no matter how stupid he has done.
    This is where the contradiction follows. They can create a rocket, but they cannot build a road ... because they will ask for a rocket, but not for a road. .. You don't have to be a genius to understand the simplest - so normal people do not have any "system". And with non-normal people it happens with absolutely any "system". Which is what we see. All conceivable systems have been tried in a century and a half, but to the point ...
  12. kalibr
    kalibr 16 December 2021 07: 25
    -4
    hard work is underway,
    And how long will it last? Interesting ... Eh, our Race was the country of goats, so, in fact, it remained!
  13. MikhailRus
    MikhailRus 16 December 2021 07: 26
    +10
    What honor can there be in the National Guard? The bailiffs and the National Guard are some of the most vile and meanest bureaus.
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 16 December 2021 07: 58
      +4
      Quote: MikhailRus
      What honor can there be in the National Guard? The bailiffs and the National Guard are some of the most vile and meanest bureaus.


      The guard is cool. In the Stalinist period of repression there were 30 thousand in the internal troops, now 340 thousand + 750 thousand police. + Private security companies which are innumerable + An army with such commanders that any godfather is resting. What innovations are there in figs .. ... Everything is decided by the fist. We just have .... Like in the 13th century ....
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 16 December 2021 12: 19
        +6
        Quote: ivan2022
        In the Stalinist period, there were 30 thousand repressions in the internal troops, now 340 thousand + 750 thousand police.

        What? What are the 30 thousand in the NKVD Internal Troops, where did you get these numbers? Yes, the troops of the protection of railway structures alone in peacetime numbered more than sixty-two thousand.
        In peacetime, 9 divisions and 5 brigades, which included 34 regiments, 14 separate battalions and support units, were intended to protect railway structures. The total number of NKVD troops allocated for the protection of railway facilities at the end of April 1941 was 62157 people.

        Plus another twenty-nine thousand guard troops of especially important industrial enterprises.
        The protection of especially important industrial enterprises was assigned to one division and three brigades, which included 10 regiments, 25 separate battalions, 12 separate companies and service units. The total number of the NKVD troops assigned to protect especially important industrial enterprises at the end of April 1941 was 28999 people.

        And this is only a part of the NKVD Internal Troops. Aunt Vika slanders that the total number of the NKVD Internal Troops in peacetime in 1941 was almost one hundred and seventy-four thousand people:
        By the summer of 1941, the internal troops included 173 people, of which:
        - operational formations - 27 people;
        - troops for the protection of railways - 63;
        - troops for the protection of especially important state enterprises - 29;
        - escort troops - 38;
        - in military schools and other institutions of the internal troops - 15.


        And now in Rosgvardia almost a third of the population is the monstrous FSUE Okhrana, which, after its transfer to the RG, additionally absorbed several departmental security structures.
  14. Gardamir
    Gardamir 16 December 2021 07: 37
    +7
    By the way, about the laws of the market under socialism. It turns out that Stalin's artels filled the market, and Nikitka humiliated everything. Now no one remembers this with their own eyes.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 December 2021 18: 17
      -8
      Than these artels, directly dependent on the planned distribution economy under the control of the state, filled the markets - the deficit of everything, as such, remained as such.
  15. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 16 December 2021 08: 28
    +9
    even a wristwatch of the proper quality did not work out.

    The author generally lived in the USSR, or does he know about him only from the manual or from TV? My watch "Akvanavt" manufactured by the Chistopol plant, bought in 1984 in Barnaul, is still running fine.
  16. Avior
    Avior 16 December 2021 08: 43
    +4
    ... encouraging news came from Vladislav Lobaev - a lot of work is underway with Rosgvardia, and the forecast of the situation is rather positive

    Got off easy. Especially against the backdrop of stories such as how Valery Pshenichny created computer models of submarines and how it ended.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. Romanenko
    Romanenko 16 December 2021 08: 51
    +1
    But what is there to discuss, one Lobaev was bent chtoli?
    The entire extreme layout of the law on weapons was written under the Russian Guard, this can be judged if only because the law was finally adopted and approved in the first reading, without discussion.
    That is, the businessmen were told HERE WRITE CROSS
  19. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 16 December 2021 09: 02
    +8
    The topic of "inconsistencies in weapon rooms" is common across Russia. All businesses and organizations that have these rooms howl and cry. The state has adopted several extremely muddy, strange and wonderful documents on this topic, moreover, drawn up in such a way that everyone, as they say, gets there. For example, the diameter of the rebar of the corresponding assortment flies in like this - it is 1-2 mm lower than the "documentary" one.
    Why does the state need all this? Judging by what is happening, the state has no need. But officials, "sitting on the topic", very much even. This is also a general system. We need a reservoir to constantly receive bribes. So that the company regularly "brings". Lobaev once created the GRU structures to provide special structures with normal barrels. Lobaev provided ... and naively believed that old contacts would continue to cover him up.
    Funny. No GRU can go against the very mechanism that is built into the foundation of the state system. Where can Rosgvardia officials get their monthly share? Why doesn't Lobaev carry? Crush him! And you, GRU, keep your mouth shut. You don't have to argue with the basics.
    Yes, industrial production of breakthrough technologies does not work normally, and will never, in general, never work normally. The United States seized the industrial and business leadership on the planet, because for a long time its leadership managed to row AGAINST the capitalist trend. It was an interesting topic, although everything is now in the past. Well, we have ... Exhibition samples. For a hundred million. It's all. The rest of the system is dying and dying. Is resource rent distributed among bureaucratic pockets? OK it's all over Now. Don't expect more ...
    1. Fedot
      Fedot 17 December 2021 07: 27
      0
      Bright are the angels of God,
      And officials are Satan's servants. (Bitter)
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 17 December 2021 09: 07
        0
        "Nettle seed" is the most harmless thing that was said about bureaucracy) Without bureaucrats, the state is impossible. But to base the state on the idea of ​​a bureaucratic paradise means its destruction. Why, it's pretty clear, it's too lazy to spread like a head along the tree. Somehow I didn't think that Eternal Russia would disappear with me ...
  20. Eug
    Eug 16 December 2021 09: 18
    0
    Regarding the quality of many mass civilian products in the USSR, as for me, the reason was the "imprisonment" for an extraordinary period. In electronics - mass products were made from elements of the previous generation, taken from the state reserve - well, they cannot be disposed of. In another technique, they tried not to make it expensive, so that (conditionally) the cost destroyed by one shell would not go off scale and would be quickly recoverable. Everything was designed from the maximum number of simple small standard parts, as a result, often it turned out, as S.V. Ilyushin aptly put it, a "duck" that can fly, and dive, and swim, and walk - but all this does not do very well. Of course, this was often justified, but in general, as for me, there was a bias. The way out, as for me, was "double" technologies - again conventionally - a "peace" tank
    time with a resource of 300 hours, according to mobilization technologies - 7-20 hours. In military aviation, as far as I know, it was so.
  21. trophy
    trophy 16 December 2021 09: 37
    +2
    Stop raving about the efficiency of private traders, the delights of the market, capitalism and competition. Just look at the decoding of the abbreviations of the Chinese auto manufacturers. When Vovan climbed into a chair, have you heard anything about the Chinese car industry? And now half of the country is in Chinese. It is this difference that speaks about which system is effective and what interests the top business and political elite have. And about the National Guard, it’s for sure: "What is such a priest and parish."
  22. Million
    Million 16 December 2021 09: 40
    +5
    where is the officer's honor and oath?

    Even the top officials of the state do not have it ..
  23. Jcvai
    Jcvai 16 December 2021 10: 07
    +6
    A person with shoulder straps, invested with power and responsibility, should not behave in this way

    1. It's funny. The Rosgvardia is not a police force planned to protect citizens from crime; this is not a riot police, sharpened for the power support of the police; it is not an army designed to defend a country from external threats. Rosgvardia is the renamed Internal Troops, focused on protecting state power from the population.
    2. In the Russian Federation, at the bureaucratic and top business levels, a corrupt cane system operates. Accordingly, only the execution of instructions from above on real positions and reporting for everything are required. Even the army did not escape this: if, say, the captain is still a soldier, then the general is no longer - he is a politician with all that it implies.
    And what is required is not "to do well", but to provide a report either on the fulfillment of the standard issued from above, or on the reasons for its non-fulfillment not related to the reporting executor.

    And in this situation, since for a serious business only a choice between protection and extradition is possible, it is most likely that the current "roof" has leaked or turned out to be not of a high enough level.
  24. Igoresha
    Igoresha 16 December 2021 11: 01
    +3
    where is the officer's honor
    what is this beautiful phrase? it is not in the nominative documents, and since there is no then there is no court
  25. Sad235
    Sad235 16 December 2021 11: 11
    +3
    I already wrote that my wife is a teacher, Honored Teacher of Russia, mathematician Cavalier of a medal for services to the Fatherland, etc. I remember such a case. Her graduate came from America to visit Russia. Naturally, they all come to visit us, my wife presented me with something gurgling. there are enough cockroaches, but I know that my knowledge will be in demand and adequately paid for Everything, you can not continue further
  26. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 16 December 2021 11: 13
    +2
    Something from the article is not very clear, are there any shortcomings in the armory room or did they take place? The court could have canceled the inspector's order on formal grounds, but in fact there was a defect in the "weapon". If so, then the question is not about the inspector, but the question to the business, which treated weapons like pies. And to everyone who does not understand this, I propose to make a parachute jump, which will be folded incorrectly in only one place ... Nonsense, isn't it? Another matter and a question to the inspector arises if there is no shortage, and he indicated it, then he agrees and the inspector should be punished. But in general, as in most cases, our stupid and lazy business, especially small and medium, can only ... but it can do nothing. Even saving wisely, it cannot, in the best case, not give the workers a salary in the hope that they will not go to complain, or often they will not exploit the workers according to their profile, or how to save on safety in the situation described in the article, and then bleat that business in the Russian Federation is a nightmare.
  27. Bykov.
    Bykov. 16 December 2021 12: 12
    -4
    In the second case, they tried to build a domestic civilian airliner "Sukhoi - Superjet" - as a result, we see an aircraft that no one needs with a considerable share of imported components.

    How is this useless to anyone? 220 pcs. this aircraft has been produced and continues to be made. And by the way, import substitution in this project is already close to fully Russian localization.
  28. place
    place 16 December 2021 12: 23
    +5
    They did not know how to make reliable cars, household appliances, even wristwatches of the proper quality did not work out. One of the reasons is the prohibition of private entrepreneurship, ///

    The opportunist! This is called "pulling an owl onto the globe." The United Russia party ordered, the author replied; "yes!" Now, in general, everything is focused on foreign companies. Where are they now - completely domestic cars, computers, or at least a wristwatch? After that, read this tight opus - "time down the drain" .....
  29. place
    place 16 December 2021 12: 34
    +6
    even a wristwatch of the proper quality did not work out. One of the reasons is the prohibition of private entrepreneurship, aimed not at meeting the requests of the state order, but at the laws of the free market ///

    According to the "laws of the free market," whole branches of industry have been thwarted, a lot of technologies and specialties have been lost ...
    Is it in your mind?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 December 2021 18: 19
      -3
      The author really GETS.
  30. Konnick
    Konnick 16 December 2021 12: 41
    +6
    Quote: Aviator_
    The author generally lived in the USSR, or does he know about him only from the manual or from TV? My watch "Akvanavt" manufactured by the Chistopol plant, bought in 1984 in Barnaul, is still running fine.

    In Soviet times, Switzerland bought massively watch movements, tested them carefully, calibrated, tuned and inserted into their cases and sold them with their advertising and packaging.
    In 2005, there was a scandal about the machinations of Franck Muller, which purchased 20 mechanisms of the well-known Russian trade mark “Polet”.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 December 2021 18: 19
      -3
      It's just bad that I didn't buy anything else from the USSR.
  31. fuffi
    fuffi 16 December 2021 12: 48
    -1
    Quote: AKuzenka
    You are joking so subtly. Buy a Lada for big money and try to ride it for a year. After a couple of months, it will begin to pour in. With foreign cars, almost the same trouble. The year before last, the quality of all cars fell sharply.

    strange, but those who have acquaintances do not pour in and have been operating without problems for several years. what is this for big money? more expensive than what? :))
    dishe bunch into flour
  32. DMi
    DMi 16 December 2021 12: 58
    -1
    With the superjet, everything is exactly the opposite. While it was being assembled from foreign components, it had problems with export. Now they are switching to import substitution, and it begins to fly stably and is in demand among Russian airlines. After replacing the engines with PD - 8 and export, everything will be fine.
    The author is not deeply in the subject of the current situation about the middle class. The middle class is dying, the mayor will soon disappear everywhere. Primarily in the west. Moreover, it cannot be in the Russian Federation in principle.
    And with checks, the reason is quite obvious. Didn't share. Or he shared it with the wrong people. A bad leader means if for the entire time of doing business he could not figure out the main and main issue, to whom and how much to bring.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 16 December 2021 17: 14
      +2
      With the superjet, everything is exactly the opposite. While it was being assembled from foreign components, it had problems with export. Now they are switching to import substitution,
      You are slightly unaware. The design of the "Superbudget" is such that during braking, when the engines are reversed, the tail section of the aircraft starts buffering, which is fraught with the appearance of fatigue cracks. The GSS firm (the developer of this aircraft), which Poghosyan assembled from a pine forest, did not have the skills to design civil aircraft at all. Problems appear during operation. The fault lies in the ambitions of Poghosyan, who crushed a certified competitor - Tu-334.
      1. Shahno
        Shahno 16 December 2021 17: 16
        0
        Yes. ... It would be better if they left for us.
        Ps. On DR ND Kuznetsov talked with Logunov, yes magnitude, the second Ioffe.
        And no one even remembers where he is. And the rector of Moscow State University was.
        Ps. You know what he said to me ... "You will be better than me, and I am leaving, Valentine will take care of you."
      2. DMi
        DMi 17 December 2021 12: 44
        0
        I am vkurse that CDs are being bought and exploited more and more actively. And the problems identified in operation are solved. The fact that TU 334 lost is the problem of the Tupolevites! Why could they be crushed? Chew snot?
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 17 December 2021 18: 55
          0
          The fact that TU 334 lost is the problem of the Tupolevites!

          These are the problems of our present country, when again, as in the XNUMXth century, everything is decided by proximity to the throne. True, Poghosyan, because of his impudence, nevertheless got burned - after the construction of a building for the UAC in Zhukovsky (which is still empty, because nothing is needed), he was kicked out and appointed rector of the Moscow Aviation Institute.
          1. DMi
            DMi 17 December 2021 19: 48
            0
            Anytime and anywhere. In the past, present and future, the proximity to the throne decides. In another way, human society simply does not know how to work. Therefore, whining and complaining about these rules of the game, which have always been and are known to everyone, is a sign of loser.
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 17 December 2021 19: 55
              0
              So whine and complain about these rules of the game,

              And who was whining? There are no rules. This is a cheating game. The result is that the country has spent a lot of money (it is not for nothing that the term "Superbudget" appeared) and was left without an airplane. Now the only hope is for its composite wing and for the MS-21.
              1. DMi
                DMi 17 December 2021 20: 12
                0
                SSD is produced, sold and transported passengers. So to say that "the country was left without an airplane" is a strong exaggeration. Who and how much stole this is another story. And who, whom and how he crushed in the competition. This is capitalism. There is no other way here, in principle.
    2. Fedot
      Fedot 17 December 2021 07: 39
      0
      Contributors ...
  33. your vsr 66-67
    your vsr 66-67 16 December 2021 13: 59
    +1
    I do not agree with all the conclusions of the author! In particular about the managers. In the village of Novaya Chara on the BAM there was an unfinished building near the station. Well, the USSR collapsed, KazakhBAMstroy was engaged in construction, that says it all. The head of the All-Russian Railways G.P. Komarov, despite the difficult time, gave the order to complete the building and place a nodal hospital there. The railroad workers had to go to the hospital in Taximo station, which is 250 km one way! The roads were completed with funds, the people were happy. Komarov G.P. left. effective managers closed the hospital and made the trade center "Russia"! And to the people again in Taksimo, there is no car communication there from the word at all!
  34. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 16 December 2021 14: 03
    0
    Worst of all, it’s not even that people can be nightmares like that. Worst of all, there are 100500 moronic standards that he needs to comply with regardless of the actual security of the production process. This, in principle, can knit modernization and innovation - well, and knits as a result. Hence the scaring away of people who are ready to do this from our country - they saw all these third-party rules in their grave.
  35. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 16 December 2021 14: 07
    0
    Our country is slowly eating up Soviet innovations, sliding more and more into the hi-tech abyss.

    That's for sure. I pressed on the SICK !!!

    Even 10 years ago, it was possible to register a certificate of conformity for 20000-30000 rubles. + a couple of test reports for 10000-15000r.
    Now 350000-700000 rubles are required for the certification scheme for serial production (D3), departure to production every year + pay + pay + pay.
    For comparison, our production in China, through Italian certification agencies, certificates for Europe for 1000-1200 dollars are made for the same equipment!
    10 times cheaper!

    Declarations of conformity used to be drawn up for 4000-6000 rubles, now 24000r according to the D3 scheme (in August 2021 they did it), you register them with your digital signature and for registration you need a bachelor's degree in programming ... In general, 5 days of preparation of documents and 4 hours of mat and dances with tambourines and online consultations and uploading missing protocols to the computer, without which registration does not work in the buggy electronic registers of the national accreditation system !!!
    Kapets and this is just a manufacturer's declaration! (https://fsa.gov.ru/use-of-technology/elektronnye-reestry/). It is necessary to plant an individual and train him to deal only with the registration of bureaucratic requirements!

    Or in China, a certificate for the same equipment for Europe - 1 working day, all on a turnkey basis.
    Who will be more successful in the market?

    Well, of course not those who lobbied to set up so many barriers and quietly remove money from this - they stick to business !!!
    Loafers from offices and certification intermediaries call every day, offering their services that are useless for production, but so necessary to overcome bureaucratic barriers ...

    Regulated in the Russian Federation so much that without additional costs and not very small, without consultants, customizers of incompatible programs - nothing can be promoted!

    Moreover, all these requirements of national regulations are stupid tracing paper from European ones - just copying!
    But why is it fast and cheap, while ours is so shitty and impossibly expensive ?!

    I will answer why - because it is easier to set up barriers and collect money from this without making any special efforts, creating a layer of useless parasites who write on prohibitive barriers, permits for money is not small!
    And every 3-5 years, change the conditions to complicate things, otherwise they themselves will begin to cope - not order!
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 16 December 2021 14: 19
      0
      // But why is it fast and cheap there, while ours is so crappy and impossibly expensive?! //
      Ill-conceived technical processes, there is no competition (which means that specialists and otvettes do not care), there is no systematic approach to document flow automation. This is generally the job of a tech lead or tech manager. Is he even present in Russian realities? With due competence ..
      Ps. And not everything is so simple with us ... But high-tech really does export in the country. This is a really big added value.
      1. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 16 December 2021 14: 33
        +2
        Quote: Shahno
        tech lead or tech manager.

        What planet are you from?
        I do not work in the gas industry, where for every problem, my own department with its own staff and bosses with six-zero salaries.
        And for me, for every sneeze of bureaucrats, it is impossible to plant a little man who will solve problems ... and pay him a salary and 47% of the payroll to cover up the government, for the fact that it made me pay a useless employee.
        Therefore, I have a production of self-propelled vehicles in China, not in Russia.
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 16 December 2021 14: 38
          0
          I'm from the planet Israel ...
          Manufactured in China? Well, there are 100 people. Or you rivet a technique at a factory for the production of irons ...
          1. Dmitry V.
            Dmitry V. 16 December 2021 14: 51
            +3
            Quote: Shahno
            I'm from the planet Israel ...

            Noticeably.
            Quote: Shahno
            Well, there are 100 people

            Why so much?

            Director. Deputy 3 engineers (designers), a supplier, a production manager, two accountants, a foreman and 10-15 assemblers of variable composition, depending on the number of orders.
            + sales 5 people
            Все.
            We don't hold parasites.
            Most of the components are manufactured by other suppliers. You take it from the gta units, add a modular structure with the required characteristics.
            These are, for example, self-propelled welding units for the construction of trunk pipelines in an arctic climate.
            They are twice lighter, more compact and 37% more economical, have a three times longer service life of skidders and mobile welding units produced in the Russian Federation. For the price - a little more expensive, because they have a single power plant, and not separately one for movement and one for generation as in Japanese Maruk or ancient ASTshek.
            1. Shahno
              Shahno 16 December 2021 14: 54
              0
              That is, within the framework of small business, from the Russian point of view.
              1. Dmitry V.
                Dmitry V. 16 December 2021 15: 08
                0
                Quote: Shahno
                That is, within the framework of small business, from the Russian point of view.


                Calculations show that if I have to transfer my business to the Russian Federation, then expenses will increase by 22-24% - heat, maintenance of extra work rates - for example, a safety engineer, meeting the requirements of fire supervision, state technical supervision, technical inspections of lifting equipment, etc., certification JOBS (! There is such an extortion in the Russian Federation!).
                Three or four inspectors a year, each of whom came to raise money, and not eliminate the shortcomings.
                + tax burden + 7% on VAT - in China, although there is less VAT refund, it is in 3 months, and in the Russian Federation I have not been able to return 9 million rupees from the state for 12 months already - everything has already been rechecked, there is nothing to cling to, but they will pull before the maximum allowed review period - because there was a double overpayment of VAT (such legislation is advance VAT, however), and the tax inspectorate is in no hurry to return the overpayment.
                + Difficulties in exporting (working with customs is still a haemorrhoid).
                And why do I need it?
                I would have to either deteriorate the quality in order to compensate for the growth in production costs, or to raise the price of equipment - and the Russian Federation is already a poor country, and even not all large companies can afford even Chinese equipment ...

                Therefore, in Russia there is only a small sales, a warehouse of spare parts and 3 people service + a couple of cars for maintenance.
                Cheap, effective, high quality and hassle-free for me and for clients.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 16 December 2021 18: 28
                  -6
                  "And in the Russian Federation, for 9 months now I have not been able to return 12 million rupees from the state - they have already checked everything, there is nothing to catch on but will drag on until the maximum permitted consideration period - because there was a double overpayment of VAT (such legislation is advance VAT, however), and the tax inspectorate is in no hurry to return the overpayment. " The same problem don't worry the payouts won't go anywhere.
                  1. Dmitry V.
                    Dmitry V. 17 December 2021 09: 07
                    -1
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    The same problem don't worry the payouts won't go anywhere.

                    It is clear they will pay either in kind or according to the court.
                    Country of problems :(
                    In my memory, only in 2009-2010 they quickly returned VAT to exporters - because the CAM gave an order to the tax authorities and they stopped delaying refunds.
                    The tax authorities have a plan for fees and a task to return as little as possible - they do not really hide this.
                    And for us, this is the freezing of working capital, which has to be borrowed in the Russian Federation at 14,5-17% ("wonderful banking system" - commercial rates are twice as high as the refinancing rate!). For comparison, in China there are 6,5 to 7,4% commercial rates.

                    But the government does not want to bother tuning the economic system and stupidly closes the markets with "anti-dumping" duties and constant devaluation of the ruble
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 20 December 2021 23: 22
                      -1
                      "For comparison, in China there are 6,5 to 7,4% commercial rates." They have a lot more money and they are not as greedy as ours from here such a percentage.
                      1. Dmitry V.
                        Dmitry V. 21 December 2021 11: 40
                        -1
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        For comparison, in China there are 6,5 to 7,4% commercial rates. "They have a lot more money and they are not as greedy as ours, hence such a percentage.


                        If my profit is, say, 20% per annum, then physically I will not be able to service loans at 15-17% - I have 3-5% profit left and it turns out that I work for a bank - it will receive three times more profit.
                        Therefore, it is easier to concentrate production in China and be credited at 7% while having a profit of 13%.
                        Therefore, the Russian banking system is not interested in technology companies with small profits. They are more interested in lending to retail sales with a yield of 40-70% per annum, since they work with a monstrous mark-up.
                      2. Alex777
                        Alex777 21 December 2021 23: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        They have a lot more money and they are not as greedy as ours from here such a percentage.

                        It's not about greed. Inflation in China's manufacturing and competitive economy is lower.
                        We have forced interest. Till. hi
        2. Shahno
          Shahno 16 December 2021 15: 09
          0
          I answered you, not understanding the volume of your production ... And to the question, what is the difference between the Russian approach and others. Let us use the example of enterprises, let's say "the average level of income".
          1. Dmitry V.
            Dmitry V. 16 December 2021 16: 20
            +2
            Quote: Shahno
            I answered you, not understanding the volume of your production ... And to the question, what is the difference between the Russian approach and others. Using the example of enterprises, let's say "the average level of income"

            Working for yourself and your partners may not be prestigious, as in a large company, it may be risky and troublesome.
            But you realize your own and your ideas.
            And besides, you supply equipment to GAZPROM to its contractors - it's still more interesting than selling consumer goods.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  36. ViacheslavS
    ViacheslavS 16 December 2021 14: 12
    -1
    The fact that in Russia it has been very tight lately with technological breakthroughs has been talked about for a long time and, to be honest, there are no special advances in this field.


    As it is not, I talked yesterday via video link with a friend from the university, he was driving in a car in Moscow and while talking he showed how Yandex's unmanned vehicle was driving nearby, and a robot who got food from Yandex was driving along the road there.
    1. Asad
      Asad 16 December 2021 14: 45
      +1
      We need these drones in Novosibirsk, let's see how they get stuck in the snow.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 16 December 2021 18: 31
        -4
        They need to be converted to a higher chassis and wider wheels. And the officials in charge of housing and communal services in Novosibirsk are the same bums.
  37. vervolk
    vervolk 16 December 2021 14: 57
    -1
    and does it allow you to bring the faith into conformity? read the book of thorns "one hundred mistakes of the armory" and you will be happy. and then it is necessary to the same world-famous and invest in the descent of kho regulations requirements does not consider it necessary?
  38. lazy
    lazy 16 December 2021 15: 02
    0
    first they run over and then wring it out, it's still good that the criminal case hasn't been started yet, but if it resists, they will start
  39. Jan
    Jan 16 December 2021 15: 18
    -1
    Wow, what a scope: "our" will be swept away !!! And what does he produce so high-tech? Maybe super-, or just computers? Laptops? CNC machines or at least mobiles? No, "only" exclusive bolts! The case is undoubtedly necessary, but somehow small on the scale .... in comparison with the same Kalashnikov! But the passages about the USSR are just rotting !!! Have heard enough of perestroika! So what about production? So small-scale, piece and nothing more. So to broadcast about undermining / breaking through is utter nonsense! I'll make a reservation right away: for Lobaev himself, this is unpleasant, but, I hope, not fatal!
  40. yehat2
    yehat2 16 December 2021 16: 26
    +2
    Isn't there a maratorium after a check visit for some period? I remember how Putin solemnly spoke about such a rule. ps I agree, Lobaev is not any high-tech. Just high-quality production, which looks like high-tech against the background of total savings on soldiers.
  41. Charik
    Charik 16 December 2021 16: 28
    0
    So he doesn't bribe them, handsome man, they went to yuh these robbers
    1. old rats
      old rats 17 December 2021 06: 05
      +1
      Quote: Charik
      So he doesn't bribe them, handsome man, they went to yuh these robbers

      This means that he is not smart enough to read the bylaw, which regulates the technical conditions for the rooms of the HO, and to make himself a CWC without violations the first time.
      1. Charik
        Charik 17 December 2021 07: 40
        0
        you are a connoisseur, if the weld seam from the check is not welded and the thickness at 0001 did not like it, then it didn’t cut it down on cabbage with sausages
        1. old rats
          old rats 17 December 2021 09: 03
          0
          I mean, you didn't like it? He may or may not like something, but he must act according to the law. He did. And well done. In what happened, Lobaev's fault. Don't cry if you screwed up yourself.
        2. vervolk
          vervolk 18 December 2021 07: 29
          -1
          they said everything correctly. and the seam should be solid and not dotted and the thickness of the rods is prescribed. but if someone has no brains. dealing with weapons of the CWC to do something to deprive him of his license and close the enterprise as a particularly dangerous fool!
  42. Selin Andrey
    Selin Andrey 16 December 2021 17: 09
    -1
    After the phrase "Our country is slowly eating up Soviet innovations," you can stop reading. In 1941, such authors probably wrote - "Our country is slowly eating up imperial innovations."
    The question is - whose innovations, according to the author, we should now eat up?
  43. Hort
    Hort 16 December 2021 18: 00
    +1
    there was encouraging news - a lot of work is underway with Rosgvardia, and the forecast of the situation is rather positive
    the investigative committee or the GP is working, I would like to hope?))
  44. Basarev
    Basarev 16 December 2021 18: 20
    0
    Let's say the bureaucrats get their way and the last high-tech venture leaves the country. Let's imagine for a moment in a mad dream that private business will disappear altogether. Will it be better for the officials themselves, for whom the budget will obviously not be enough for everyone? You have to shrink, you have to cut the extra ones. Is that what they want?
    1. vervolk
      vervolk 18 December 2021 07: 31
      -1
      Let's imagine for a second that a private business starts to comply with the requirements of regulations and technological standards! who will get sick from this? do you want to allow private business to work as God will put on your soul and even give up on technical regulations?
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 18 December 2021 08: 27
        -2
        The trouble is that these requirements and regulations very quickly lost their original function, and numerous checks are clearly punitive in nature. The story is exactly like with eugenics: the idea itself is good, good, only it also soon turned from a medical concept into another instrument for punishing the unwanted. Or do you seriously think that these regulations, commissions and checks are completely puzzled by safety alone? Amazing naivety.
        1. vervolk
          vervolk 18 December 2021 08: 30
          -1
          your attempt to get off topic is amazing. there are regulations for equipping kho. he did not turn into anything. you need a specified bar thickness diameter and requirements for doors and welds. do it and that's it. no one can show anything. but no. it turns out Lobanov can make a profit not to comply with the requirements of the legislation in the field of arms trafficking. why? is he more equal than others? came to him a check so everyone is nightmare business and extort a bribe? sometimes a banana is just a banana (s). trade in weapons, bring the kho into line. it is an axiom!
          1. Basarev
            Basarev 18 December 2021 08: 42
            -2
            The answer is simple: most of the criteria are clearly far-fetched, because the main goal is exactly shaking out the dough, in fact, safety to a light bulb. In addition, Lobaev really can, because he produces a high-tech and successful product in foreign markets, which is very rare in our country. I think so: high-tech exporters can do it, but pipe suckers don't. And it would be absolutely ideal if the relationship between a person and the state ends with the payment of taxes. And so that all the rest of the time, except for the day of payment, a person could not know and not even think that there is a state.
            1. vervolk
              vervolk 18 December 2021 09: 06
              -1
              everything is clear with your position. in response, I hope Lobaev will at least revoke the license for the type of activity associated with weapons, and preferably a criminal term will be soldered.
  45. Alexander Popov_1963
    Alexander Popov_1963 16 December 2021 19: 01
    +1
    Is it okay that the "Raketa" watch was exported to Switzerland under the USSR? The author dumps out a set of myths worthy of an institutional smoking room.
    1. vervolk
      vervolk 18 December 2021 08: 31
      -1
      can you share from where infa?
  46. Evgeny Fedorov
    16 December 2021 20: 40
    +2
    Even 10 years ago, when we got into a similar situation, none of my appeals - and they, believe me, were in the highest authorities - did not lead to a result that would help us to continue our activities. Commercial and reputational damage from the inability to supply two power structures of the CIS countries led to the fact that we were forced to agree to an urgent three-year contract in one of the Middle Eastern countries. By the way, the goodwill of the government of this country made it possible to fulfill contractual obligations to our clients - their desire to work with us was so great!

    Now, effective tools have appeared that allow both to reach out to the authorities and to promptly respond to the demands of society. Officials at all levels monitor the pain points of society, as well as the problems raised in various public places. I have no doubt that even comments reach the addressees and are taken into account. In this case, the personal involvement of the Governor of the Kaluga Region, the head of the National Guard of the Kaluga Region, and your active civic position, made it possible to quickly resolve the most acute moments of the conflict.

    Today the CWC was opened, we can continue to work as usual, and this is the main result! Let's hope that our troubles will end there.
    This is from V. Lobaev's Cart. Thanks to everyone who was not indifferent.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 December 2021 23: 24
      +1
      Everything will be fine with Lobaev - I'm waiting for the two rifles ordered from him.
  47. ZeeD
    ZeeD 16 December 2021 21: 00
    +1
    About mega projects, yes ... Have forgotten how ... Crimean bridge in 3 years. It was considered impossible. Roads through the far east. Expansion of the BAM.
    Oh wei ... Everything is gone ...
    1. nod739
      nod739 16 December 2021 23: 37
      +2
      A piece of iron to Yakutsk. Without any fuss in the media, although the project with relatives of BAM
  48. Blade
    Blade 16 December 2021 21: 24
    0
    It's a shame for Lobaev's company. He is the pride of Russia, a real PATRIOT. I wish you success and new technical discoveries. Take care of it.
    1. vervolk
      vervolk 18 December 2021 07: 32
      -1
      it would be nice for an offended Lobaev to follow the regulations in the activities from which he receives income!
  49. Den red
    Den red 16 December 2021 21: 58
    -2
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    Quote: Den Red
    In the USSR, there was a big problem with the quality of agricultural

    My gold, did you eat Soviet tomatoes at all? And the sausage? This is the current plastic "pink paradise" is not possible, sausage, it is generally a poison that cannot be eaten.
    Quote: Den Red
    It is the responsibility of the state to maintain kindergartens, schools and sections, for this the farmer pays taxes to him.

    You see, what is the matter, if the collective farm did not care about its infrastructure, beyond what the state does, then none of the specialists will go there to work, and the rest will be lured away.
    Quote: Den Red
    The duty of the conditional farmer to perform a qualitatively assumed production function voluntarily.

    In this economic model, yes, however, who is more useful to society, a collective farm or such a farmer, who is concerned only with his own profit?
    Quote: Den Red
    It would be optimal for a modern state to combine both approaches, private and state in the economy, somewhere you need to have a monopoly, and somewhere to give private traders work in small things, they are more mobile than a huge bureaucratic apparatus and are more proactive and can help the country's economy. One does not interfere with the other, but complements

    This is exactly what happened in the Stalinist economy.
    Quote: Den Red
    but what they write in the article is unfair competition

    In capitalist states, fair competition ended at the end of the nineteenth century.

    The quality of sausage and tomatoes is set by the State Standards and checked by various state supervisions, both in Soviet times and nowadays. And the quality of products in the USSR also sometimes happened to be bad. If, according to GOST, 30% of the paper is in sausages, and there it was 50%, then they were punished for this if they found it. This is how it should be now. And now in Europe, violations of sanitary standards are punished dearly, agricultural products in the EU are much safer in general than products in Russia, because there is strict control over the observance of the law and serious responsibility. And the fact that there was no chemistry at that time suggests that it was simply not invented then. But in any case, the state should regulate the lower level of quality. They made a mess both under the USSR and now, and they will be if there is no control, because these are people, and they, both under the USSR and now, are not all conscious, highly moral and conscientious, otherwise they would have built communism long ago. If farming is large, then even now it can fully perform social functions. And this will be beneficial to him, because he needs working hands, what is under the USSR, what now, which means that schools, hospitals, etc. are also needed. And even now there are large private companies with powerful social packages and kindergartens and trips to sanatoriums, etc.
  50. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 16 December 2021 22: 08
    -1
    In the second case, they tried to build a domestic civilian airliner "Sukhoi - Superjet" - as a result, we see an aircraft that no one needs with a considerable share of imported components.

    After this invention, it became clear that the author is an expert in all areas ... A real professional in his field.