Military Review

The difficult future of Russian attack UAVs

225

The rapid development of military UAVs around the world over and over again raises a natural question - why is Russia so far behind, both in the field of their design and production?


In most cases, the main reason for this is the inert thinking of the military and engineers, however, it is impossible to completely agree with such a formulation of the question - although the indicated reasons certainly have a place to be. But one of the most important and completely unreported problems lies in a completely different plane - the technical one.

And today we propose to find out why.

Imported components


We need to start our conversation today with the fact that not all elements of the Russian high-tech weapons are Russian in the full sense of the word - its main components in the form of microelectronics and computers are produced in the United States and its allied countries.

This is not classified information: for example, in the article "Mechanical engineering on the verge of extinction" from the publication "Military-Industrial Courier" you can read information that ballistic missiles "Bulava" use microcircuits of the Latvian production association "Alpha", and on the frames of the documentary film of the studio Russia Today "K-433 Svyatoy Georgiy Pobedonosets: Nuclear Triad Workhorse", dedicated to domestic nuclear submarines, you can see American FPGA chips from Atmel and Altera (footage in the film - at 7:20 and 7:38). Judging by the available data, with drones (and in general, with all spheres of the defense industry), the situation is absolutely the same - the possibilities of their production directly depend on the purchase of imported parts abroad.

Here is what the Primakov Institute of IMEMO RAS "Military-Economic Development and Security, 2020" writes about this:

“In the space robot Fyodor, up to half of the components were originally imported; foreign (Baltic) components were even present in the Bulava rocket system.

It goes without saying that one cannot talk about free legal purchases of microelectronics for the Russian military-industrial complex - since the days of the Soviet Union, semiconductors have been a technology of strategic importance and cannot be sold to Moscow.

Perhaps the reader remembers a number of scandals related to the industrial espionage of the Russian Federation on the territory of the United States from 2008 to 2012, when the FBI regularly reported on the arrests of dozens of Russian citizens who were accused of illegally purchasing large consignments of various high-tech products. Be that as it may, Russia was able to organize the supply of Western microelectronics in sufficient quantities to carry out a large-scale modernization of the armed forces.

But roughly in 2015–2016, this process began to stop for no seemingly obvious reason.

This trend was clearly manifested, including in the design and production of UAVs - and this was by no means an accident.

In 2014, the NATO bloc carried out a number of covert operations on the territory of Ukraine and then Syria. The US Special Operations Forces, the Royal Marines commandos and the British Special Air Force created a number of task forces to capture high-tech samples from the Russian military-industrial complex - with special priority given to UAVs.

According to available data, at least 3 military drones of the RF Armed Forces were captured over the course of 4-20 years: 9 in the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic and 11 in the territory of eastern Ukraine.

The exported samples were carefully studied, and information on their components was transferred to a number of analytical centers - as you know, at least three think tanks conducted research on this topic only in the interests of the UN.

All operations were started with an extremely prosaic goal: their task was to track the supply chains of technologies to Russia (for which, in fact, the components were investigated) - and, accordingly, their further suppression.

Of course, at the moment it is difficult to give an unambiguous assessment of the results of the activities of the United States and its allied countries, given the closed nature of both the structures of the Russian defense industry and the Ministry of Defense. Let's face it, it is simply impossible to find out specific details by legal means.

But the facts speak for themselves: work in the development of unmanned aviation for some reason, they are experiencing a serious crisis, which equally applies to the development of high-precision weapons (which should be discussed separately), and may well be related to the lack of microelectronics - it is probably the blocked access to procurement channels that makes itself felt in this way.

The information below is not a military / state secret and is taken from the report "Weapons of the war in Ukraine" prepared by the British investigative organization "Conflict armament research" for the UN. Below you can see the list of imported components in Russian military UAVs given there.

UAV "Outpost"


UAV "Forpost":

1. Single-cylinder 3W-55i engine of the German company 3W-Modellmotoren Weinhold GmbH.

2. The Spartan XC3550 user programmable gate array of the American company Xilinx.

3. Elements of the fuel system from the Irish company Tillotson.

4. GPS antenna of the American company Antcom.

5. Navigation modules of the Swiss manufacturer MicroEM.

6. Dynamic measuring unit (DMU02 or DMU10 - depending on the UAV year of manufacture), manufactured by the British company Silicon Sensing Systems.

7. RF module 9XTend 900 MHz, manufactured by the American company Digi International.

8. Network controller iEthernet W5300, manufactured by the Korean company WIZnet.

9. GNSS receiver NV08C-CSM of the American company NVS Technologies AG.

Power plant of the captured UAV "Forpost". Photo source: Conflict Armament Research
Power plant of the captured UAV "Forpost". Photo source: Conflict Armament Research

UAV "Eleron"


UAV "Eleron":

1-bit microcontroller from the Swiss manufacturer STMicroelectronics.

2. The main photographic equipment Sony FCB-EX11DP manufactured by the Japanese company Sony.

3. Auxiliary photographic equipment Olympus Stylus TG-860 manufactured by the Japanese company Olympus.


Captured UAVs "Eleron" of varying degrees of preservation. Photo source: Conflict Armament Research

UAV "Granat"


UAV "Granat":

1. Photo equipment of the Japanese company Canon.

2. Electronic components manufactured by the American companies Intel Corporation and Pulse Electronics.

3. Battery of the American company MaxAmps.

4. The engine is produced by the Czech company Model Motors.

UAV "Zastava":


UAV "Zastava":

1. Electronic components of Israeli defense companies Elbit Systems and Data Links.

2. Electronic components of the American corporation Vweb.

3. Engine of the German company Hacker Motor.

4. Autopilot AP04M of the Spanish company UAV Navigation.

5. GPS-module of the Swiss company u-blox.

UAV "Orlan-10"


UAV "Orlan-10":

1. GPS tracker: chips marked HC4060 2H7A201 and STC 12LE5A32S2 35i are made in China.

2. Starter-generator PTN78020 manufactured by the American company Texas Instruments Incorporated.

3. Internal combustion engine with ignition module (photos 1 and 2) 4,8-9V, 500mA manufactured by the Japanese company SAITO.

4. The flight controller is assembled on the basis of the STM32F103 QFP100 microcircuit of the French-Italian manufacturer STMicroelectronics. The MPXA4115A and MPXV5004DP microcircuits of the American company Freescale Semiconductor (currently owned by the Dutch NXP Semiconductors NV) are used as pressure sensors. The HMC6352 compass sensor was manufactured by the American company Honeywell.

5. The GPS module is based on the GLONASS / GPS / QZSS LEA-6N receiver of the Swiss company u-blox paired with the Russian MNP-M7 (built on the American ADSP-BF534 chip manufactured by Analog Devices).

6. The telemetry transmission module is based on the ATxmega256A3 microcontroller of the American company Microchip, the transmission range is 902-928 MHz. The RF3110 transmitter is manufactured by the German company Municom. Receiver DP1205-C915 manufactured by the German company AnyLink.


Disassembled Russian UAV Orlan-10. One of the vehicles of this type was raised by British combat swimmers in the Caspian Sea within XNUMX hours after the crash. Photo source: Conflict Armament Research

Judging by the picture presented, Russian UAVs are assembled mainly on the basis of civilian components. Perhaps this is the reason for their rapid wear with regular use and relatively low reliability, as a result of which a large number of vehicles were captured, both in Syria, and in Ukraine, and even in the Baltic states. It was stated that most of the vehicles that fell into the hands of NATO experts were wrecked for technical reasons.

Do people in Russia understand the meaning of the concept of attack drones?


Analyzing the situation with Russian drones, few people touch on the topic, which is the main obstacle, both for their export sales and for their introduction into the Russian Armed Forces - namely, the topic of lack of weapons.

Dear reader will probably be surprised - what kind of lack of weapons are we talking about, if, say, "Orion" (today we will talk about it, since this UAV is presented as the device most ready for mass production) produced demonstration launches demonstrated by the media ?

But, as is the case with the components of Russian drones, the situation is far from being as straightforward as it seems.

To begin with, the Russian military industry has not come close to creating analogs of the American guided missile Hellfire or, say, Turkish gliding bombs of the MAM family. When, after the events in Syria, Libya and Karabakh, it was urgently required to demonstrate any success in the creation of Russian-made strike drones, the defense industry was able to issue only a design that raises very big questions - the Orion was attached ... the Kornet anti-tank complex ( with a launch container).

This solution can in no way be called adequate (if only because the ATGM tube affects the aerodynamics of the drone, and it also simply weighs a lot, which is completely unacceptable in the case of the Orion with its low carrying capacity), and it is probably was originally seen only as temporary.

The difficulty lies in the fact that the Russian defense industry simply has nothing to replace the Kornet with something else, but the Russian Federation also cannot ignore the growing world market for attack UAVs.

The solution was found, and it turned out to be no better than the previous one.

At Dubai Airshow-2021 in the UAE, Russia demonstrated a model of the Orion with ... a helicopter ATGM Vikhr-M.

What is the disadvantage of this solution?
"Whirlwind" was created for the specific tactics of attack helicopters and has a number of features that are completely useless in the context of the tactics of attack UAVs. This is a high-quality, but very expensive weapon, which, moreover, has a very large mass - for example, the Orion will be able to lift no more than two such missiles.

What are two anti-tank missiles on an attack UAV in 2021?

This is a ridiculous and ridiculous result even against the background of the very first modifications of the American MQ-1 Predator mod. 1994 of the year.

The lack of adequate weapons on the Orion completely kills the whole essence of the well-established concept of using attack drones. The more missiles on your UAV, the longer your ground units have a "flying battery" over their heads, which can hover in the sky for hours, waiting for new targets.

In the case of active hostilities, this is a critical factor: imagine, for example, the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, but adjusted for the 2-3 times reduced effectiveness of Azerbaijani UAVs. I think the reader understands perfectly well that in such a scenario, the pace of advancement of the Azerbaijani units could significantly decrease, and their losses due to the lack of air support could increase.

Namely, such results would be provided by the Russian Orion, if it were in the place of Turkish and Israeli attack drones - because its ridiculous combat load would not allow organizing full-fledged air support for ground forces.

Doesn't look too optimistic, does it?

Separately, it is worth talking about another know-how of the Russian defense industry in the form of unguided bombs on MALE class drones.

Talking about a certain "economy" of such a solution, Russian gunsmiths demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the very essence of the concept of an attack UAV.

What is it, if you explain the concept in the most accessible language?

UAV is a device with the cost of a flight hour of a piston attack aircraft of the Second World War and the combat effectiveness of an Apache attack helicopter, while invulnerable to the most common air defense systems (for example, MANPADS or MZA). This is achieved largely precisely due to controlled weapons. Armament for a drone is such an integral part of its complete set as the "sniper rifle - cartridge - optics" complex.

What is the main problem of using aerial bombs on an attack UAV?
It cannot take heavy ammunition due to its low carrying capacity, and in the case of operation with light (100-150 kg), for acceptable bombing accuracy, the drone will have to work from low altitudes, entering the engagement zone of any, even the most primitive air defense systems - and taking into account its low speed characteristics and poor maneuverability (well, they are not designed to play the role of IL-2!) losses in the event of their collisions, even with a low-tech enemy, can be extremely high. The enemy, more organized and well-equipped, will be able to eliminate Russian UAVs as a threat factor, simply exterminating them in a fairly short time.

What kind of savings are we talking about if on each departure it is planned to deliberately expose a machine worth millions of dollars for almost inevitable destruction or damage?

It is worth asking another reasonable question - against which hypothetical adversary (and, accordingly, for which potential buyer) such aircraft are made, obviously inferior to absolutely all competitors in the world arms market?
In battles with the regular army, they will be practically useless (again, imagine the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, but with the Orions, which either carry a scattering of light bombs, or two Vortexes each), and in clashes with insurgent formations they do not carry any economic benefits: when using air bombs, "Orion" can be destroyed even with the help of ZPU-4, and in the case of using "Kornet" and "Vortex", the UAV will need to be constantly returned to the base to replenish the stock of missiles (which, we recall, he will have two pieces), which in general will negatively affect their support for ground forces - and, of course, throughout the entire course of hostilities.

Summarizing


Summing up, we can say that neither the essence of the concept, nor tactics, nor as such the value of strike UAVs in Russia has yet been realized and understood - and all current practical developments are more than vivid evidence of this.

Without the development of appropriate high-precision weapon systems, no strike UAVs in Russia are possible, both as part of the RF Armed Forces and for export deliveries - with the exception of propaganda videos and headlines of high-profile articles about “Bayraktar killers”.
Author:
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Conflict Armament Research
225 comments
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  1. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 17 December 2021 05: 26
    +19
    The difficult future of Russian attack UAVs
    Here are those hello ... then "similar" then the future is vague.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 17 December 2021 05: 52
      +11
      Quote: Aerodrome
      Here are those hello ... then "similar" then the future is vague.

      For a long time everything was predetermined:
      Imported components
      We need to start our conversation today with the fact that not all elements of Russian high-tech weapons are Russian in the full sense of the word - its main components in the form of microelectronics and computers are produced in the United States and its allied countries.
      1. Civil
        Civil 17 December 2021 10: 00
        +5
        1. Years have passed for the generals to understand that the UAV is a necessity.
        2.
        The difficult future of Russian attack UAVs

        Life will make everything get done.
        1. svp67
          svp67 17 December 2021 14: 25
          -6
          Quote: Civil
          It took years for the generals to realize that the UAV was a necessity.

          Actually, the USSR was in the lead on this issue. UAVs of the USSR, both reconnaissance and shock ones, were a strong argument. It's just that everything costs money, and if before that they were spent on modernizing weapons, which is easier, and most importantly in more quantity, now they are already thinking about the production of a new one ... Not all at once
          1. Anzhey V.
            17 December 2021 16: 03
            +12
            UAVs of the USSR, both reconnaissance and shock


            In the USSR, there have never been shock UAVs in service - only reconnaissance vehicles of the Tupolev Design Bureau
            1. Pentacle
              Pentacle 17 December 2021 16: 48
              +5
              Well, Yakovleva: Bee
            2. svp67
              svp67 17 December 2021 20: 18
              +1
              Quote: Anjay V.
              only reconnaissance vehicles of KB "Tupolev"

              And yet they were. And the generals perfectly understood their usefulness, especially since the Tupolev design bureau was developing the reconnaissance and shock Tu-300 "Korshun"
        2. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 17 December 2021 14: 30
          +20
          And not life should compel, but the prosecutor's office, the budget, the president's budget message and control over the use of finances received from the sale of Russian minerals.
          I just read how India allocated $ 4 for the construction of microelectronics factories. This is almost 000 rubles. We have trillions of rubles lying around (in the NWF). The greedy and cowardly "privatizers" of the Soviet legacy demand forgiveness of loan debts and do not even invest in the modernization of existing production ... Why do we need such an organization of economic development if, wherever you spit, there is a cesspool everywhere?
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 17 December 2021 15: 27
            -1
            In Russia, Angstrem T invested 60 billion rubles - as a result, no one bought the products and the plant became bankrupt; now they are trying to revive it. The Indians have a large domestic sales market that allows them to recoup such production, Russia does not have this - therefore, we develop microprocessors and produce the same Comdiv microprocessor for the military in Taiwan.
            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 17 December 2021 17: 51
              +2
              Quote: Vadim237
              In Russia, Angstrem T invested 60 billion rubles - as a result, no one bought the products and the plant became bankrupt; now they are trying to revive it.

              Dear Vadim! Here there was information that the whole world (including the USA) orders (produces) microelectronics NOT independently. Then WHY are foreign electronic devices superior to Russian ones? Or is your apartment bursting with electronics labeled "Made in Russia"? Sorry, but the performance is still fresh:
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 17 December 2021 19: 58
                0
                Because their developments in this direction overtook ours and pulled ahead, starting from the 60s they created brands, private manufacturers drove everything and eventually they occupied the entire world sales market - we did not have any promoted brands or modern products, so we have what we have for today nothing depends on our wishes, it only remains to occupy niches, this is also to the question of why ours mainly buy Western brands - they are on everyone's lips and they are better than ours. The way out is to create a fundamentally new revolutionary microelectronics - but hundreds of billions of rubles and an unknown result - the risks are maximum, and foreign states can simply put a barrier to the export of these developments, and the domestic market alone will not be enough to recoup such production.
                1. Ross xnumx
                  Ross xnumx 18 December 2021 04: 43
                  +4
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  A way out to create a fundamentally new revolutionary microelectronics - but hundreds of billions of rubles and an unknown result

                  The result is predictable - an example of RUSNANO: billions were wasted !!!
                  Today, allocating billions for the development of microelectronics in Russia is like putting 212 tons of gold bullion in front of the inhabitants of a wild Amazonian tribe. There is no school, no transfer of experience ...
                  In the USSR, there was little incentive for leading engineers. It was believed that paying 10 - 000 rubles (50 checks) for a breakthrough technology (depending on the purpose and value) was not so much expensive as it could corrupt a Soviet engineer, make him throw up new gimmicks every year. So they raised millions of squads of mediocrity for 000 rubles a month and a galaxy of satirists and artists who preferred to work at Pullman on stage.
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 18 December 2021 18: 26
                    -1
                    The result is predictable - an example of RUSNANO: billions were wasted !!! Why did they create 96 production facilities - they worked, but then the profit was reduced to zero - the same principle about the risks of investing in high-tech products, investments are always risks, and in high-tech production, the risks are maximum, and Rusnano is an investment office here I don't want anything to depend on - you invest you risk.
                    Today, allocating billions for the development of microelectronics in Russia is like putting 212 tons of gold bullion in front of the inhabitants of a wild Amazonian tribe. There is no school, there is no transfer of experience ... Everything is there except for the development of our own equipment for production and the required number of specialists - and there is no main sales market for the payback of these investments, and so we have the Ruselectronics concern and KRET and these are dozens of enterprises and institutes ...
                  2. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 18 December 2021 21: 01
                    -2
                    well, thanks to Rusnano, we have a microprocessor factory
            2. Bow
              Bow 18 December 2021 15: 51
              +3
              Angstrem was given a loan for the construction of the corresponding facilities; less than two years later, VEB suspended the loan. The equipment for the plant has not physically arrived yet, and the money allocated for its implementation has already been taken from the project. Moreover, it was taken by none other than the state bank, which does not manage its own money, but, in fact, budget funds.
              And this is the whole story of the "Angstrom" - all the time someone interfered, deprived of funds, changed priorities, terms, etc. Despite the fact that the matter is already complicated, because for Russia it is absolutely new, all these "jerking" gave a natural result - the money, in fact, was simply buried. Banks earned money on the issuance of state funds on credit, the rest in the red, microelectronics at zero. Well, almost zero, accounting systems for "working with the population" can be (it is very convenient for Sobyanin, for example, in a pandemic it was to deprive old people of the right to free travel - you just turn off their cards and that's it), but more - and no need, such an infringement.
            3. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 19 December 2021 10: 11
              +2
              Quote: Vadim237
              that's why microprocessors are being developed in our country and the same Comdiv microprocessor is being produced in Taiwan for the military.

              Gorgeous. Tomorrow they will get another package of sanctions, which will ban the production and sale of high-tech products to us, and we have arrived. But I look at effective managers do not care about it. They once again demonstrate the correctness of the idea that for the sake of profit they are ready to do anything, even sell a rope on which they will then be hung.
            4. d4rkmesa
              d4rkmesa 21 December 2021 21: 33
              +1
              "Angstrem" T ... Sad story. There was initially a stupid approach to everything, from a long construction (of course, the Russian Federation does not have much experience in building clean rooms) to equipment that is insane at a price and storage for many years in a special warehouse in Holland, plus heavy loans and VEB's approach. Nowadays there are no specialists either, they were one-of-a-kind 10 years ago, but now almost all of them have fled most likely.
          2. moscowp
            moscowp 18 December 2021 08: 18
            +2
            This is how they are trying to do something: the prosecutor's office, budget, control. And then they are surprised that nothing happens)) Surprisingly, neither the prosecutor's office nor the controllers are able to create something
            1. shahor
              shahor 19 December 2021 00: 20
              +4
              Quote: moscowp
              Surprisingly, neither the prosecutor's office nor the controllers are able to create something

              This is clearly a government flaw! It is necessary to issue an order of the Cabinet of Ministers with a clear instruction to the Prosecutor's Office within a five-year period to develop a project of a photolithographic machine for the production of microcircuits using 1-2 nm technology. Prepare the car for State Tests. Responsible - the Attorney General. And we will be happy!
          3. svoroponov
            svoroponov 19 December 2021 05: 29
            -1
            Well, the money was allocated in full. Well, who will build and with what equipment will fill the workshop? Yes, all over the world, UAVs, count the LEGO constructors from components from different countries. For example, the Turks only have their hulls, the rest of the equipment is a prefabricated hodgepodge.
            The Americans put German guns on their Abrams. Everyone has cooperation in one part or another. In general, while the concept is being developed, you can use foreign components, while your expensive production is being built and adjusted. And the fact that it has appeared, it is ours and is being improved, is already good. What can you do, but after the collapse of the USSR, many industries have to be raised almost from scratch.
          4. trenkkvaz
            trenkkvaz 20 December 2021 20: 17
            0
            So what ? Are you proposing to build a bunch of factories for tens of billions of dollars to produce a bunch of electronics for a few hundred drones?
            Golden drones will be obtained.
            Even here, the article lists a bunch of countries, manufacturers of different electronics. That is, no country produces the entire range of such products.
            So why did they decide that Russia is capable of raising such a case in a short time?
            1. Yarhann
              Yarhann 20 December 2021 22: 51
              -2
              I think it will be cheaper to use KR Caliber instead of kamikaze drones)))
      2. svp67
        svp67 17 December 2021 14: 23
        +5
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Imported components
        We need to start our conversation today with the fact that not all elements of Russian high-tech weapons are Russian in the full sense of the word - its main components in the form of microelectronics and computers are produced in the United States and its allied countries.

        Everything is produced in Taiwan. if you take ANY UAV of ANY country, there is a lot, if not all the components are IMPORTED ...
        1. Storog dvornik
          Storog dvornik 18 December 2021 03: 29
          +3
          That's right, for this reason, and the US howl over Taiwan ... Although under the guise of some companies are already evacuated to the states ...
        2. lazy
          lazy 18 December 2021 16: 20
          +1
          "Russian technology, American technology, all the same, everything is made in Taiwan" @ Armageddon
      3. ViacheslavS
        ViacheslavS 17 December 2021 23: 13
        0
        The situation is stalemate, the United States, for example, also uses components from different countries of manufacture in its weapons, because it is expensive to do everything alone, and it is simply impossible to be the best in everything.
        What Russia should do in this case is not clear, from a strategic point of view, of course, it needs 100% or close to it localization, but from a practical point of view, it is obvious that this will most likely drive the economy into the red. Probably, in a UAV, you can go for the use of foreign components, having some kind of supply of components.
        1. shahor
          shahor 19 December 2021 00: 28
          +1
          Quote: ViacheslavS
          The situation is stalemate, the United States, for example, also uses components from different countries of manufacture in its weapons, because it is expensive to do everything alone, and it is simply impossible to be the best in everything.

          No one has imposed sanctions against the United States. Otherwise, you are right. It is impossible today even for the richest country to develop and implement all the technologies on its own. There won't be enough resources. Therefore, import substitution, which we are being told about, is a road to a dead end, condemning Russia to the role of an eternal outsider.
        2. Yarhann
          Yarhann 20 December 2021 22: 53
          0
          this is how a strategic stock of necessary components is purchased at the expense of the customer - for example, MO and that's it. In the days of the USSR, everything was taken out through third countries if it was badly needed
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 17 December 2021 09: 02
      0
      Quote: Aerodrome
      Here are those hello ... then "similar" then the future is vague.

      Hello, mordaste ... so there are no analogues, because you can't see ... fog, sir!
    3. Alexxis
      Alexxis 18 December 2021 15: 33
      +1
      For the first time, the Ministry of Defense showed a video of the destruction of a drone by an Orion drone
      In the video, the Orion strike UAV rises into the air, and then, with a shot from the Kornet anti-tank missile system (ATGM), destroys a helicopter-type UAV simulator target (VM-V)
      https://youtu.be/BxZXZhy4P_c
    4. The comment was deleted.
  2. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 17 December 2021 05: 48
    +5
    The other day I had a discussion with Barberry and his supporters, proving that:
    You can work for 20 years, only without having the production of electronics with all its components, you can launch this glider without any hope of controlling and executing commands (necessary). Is there such a plant in Russia with modern equipment? Fuck ... Construction has begun in Dubna ... They will build it near St. Petersburg ... When they build it, when the production of the necessary components is established, then it will be possible not to roll it out - to ventilate ...

    Earned duty sticks from these leavened patriots.
    We carefully read the article from the representative of the RF Ministry of Defense. What is new for you here?
    We need to start our conversation today with the fact that not all elements of Russian high-tech weapons are Russian in the full sense of the word - his the main components in the form of microelectronics and computers are produced in the United States and its allied countries.

    Okay, when mediocrity and incompetence sits silently in a rag, and does not act as the director of the Crimean beach. But, when, not knowing the specifics, they are trying to teach someone ... Right, the heroes of the screen:
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 17 December 2021 05: 58
      +4
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Earned duty sticks from these leavened patriots.
      ... this is an honor! lolabout the lack of concrete, our own, element base, we have been talking for years, grabbing patriotic "sleepers".
      1. Lepsik
        Lepsik 17 December 2021 08: 31
        -23
        No Western country will be able to build any of its components.
        only China and the Russian Federation are closer to this goal.
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 17 December 2021 10: 17
          +7
          RF ???
          Have you even bothered to master the article entirely?
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 17 December 2021 15: 33
          -9
          No country in the world has ever done and will not do everything - any Western technology will be taken there by the cooperation of dozens of component manufacturers from all over the world, Russia and China are no exception.
        3. Zyablicev43
          Zyablicev43 18 December 2021 09: 37
          0
          Something I recalled a scandal when ours were tying electronics from traffic lights in the United States for the needs of our military-industrial complex.
          1. Yarhann
            Yarhann 20 December 2021 22: 56
            -1
            electronics in traffic lights)))) very funny especially in American ones)))
    2. KCA
      KCA 17 December 2021 06: 15
      +12
      In terms of components, not everything is so terrible, MSX is developed by the USA, but they are printed in Taiwan, and other countries, and not in the USA, if these are not custom microcontrollers, after the production of which a batch of films are destroyed, but commercial ones, for example ATmega328, etc. ., it is impossible to prohibit their import, well, unless you conclude a contract on behalf of the Ministry of Defense, but entrust this matter to normal suppliers of components, they will bring anything through a bunch of gaskets (they do this anyway to muddle up with customs clearance)
      1. Cosm22
        Cosm22 17 December 2021 10: 30
        +12
        It is not a problem to steal or drag a certain component through the gasket.
        The problem is that his there is nothing. And it is not expected.
        As for Taiwan, there, like in Africa, everything is really there. But this is not China. Try to buy something worthwhile in Taiwan from the Military / Space category.
        1. KCA
          KCA 17 December 2021 11: 38
          +6
          I won't buy in Taiwan, I bought in Moscow time, I don't know war / space, msx with a temperature range of -55 / + 125 degrees, in ceramic cases
          1. km-21
            km-21 17 December 2021 14: 39
            +3
            By themselves, sintered bodies do not guarantee parameters and reliability at the war / space level. Here the supplier's certificates are important, which in case of substandard conditions can be presented in court and a penalty can be collected. And with these certificates, the supplier accompanies orders that correspond only to official deliveries. And it goes without saying that Taiwan will not be able to fulfill any official deliveries for the Russian military-industrial complex, even with all its desire. Therefore, your -55 / + 125 is most likely a counterfeit disguised as a solid product.
        2. dauria
          dauria 17 December 2021 11: 47
          +10
          Try to buy something worthwhile in Taiwan from the Military / Space category.

          Also surprised by the "consumer goods" from "Microchip" and "Atmelka" in our military commissariat. I am already far from the military, but there is a daughter
          About seven years ago I wrote a diploma - so on the components of the electronic equipment of aircraft in the United States, oh, how rigid the framework is. I had to get acquainted with "Texas Instrument", I had not heard about the controllers of this office until that time.
          And the backlog began with Gorbachev. Years since 85th. Before that, badly, poorly, they managed to mess up everything. Not at home, but in the GDR. Even processors, "binding" kits, ROM and RAM. Until the 90s by inertia, and then a terrible collapse. Something in the microwave flashed a decent 10 years ago ours. Now I do not know.
          And it seemed to me that the REO went to the level from elements on the board to ready-made modules on the board with communication with typical interfaces.
          We will soon become monkeys here. "Press the button and you will get a banana."
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 19 December 2021 05: 43
            -2
            Parallel computing in Intel processors has its roots in the development of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, made for the Buran computer, later sold to the states. And at the source of the processors of this company are the developments of the Soviet institute, stolen by the deputy director of this institute of Jewish nationality during the collapse of the USSR and settled in the United States. All of this can be found on the Internet.
        3. d4rkmesa
          d4rkmesa 21 December 2021 21: 35
          0
          Well, about yours, why not consider the programmed gate microcircuit "yours"? )
      2. Storog dvornik
        Storog dvornik 18 December 2021 03: 37
        +1
        The USSR was completely engaged in this and did not soar, with the same sanctions ... And he opened offices, and the firms were corrupted, only the flight ...
        Dzerzhinsky still started with his Cheka in the 20th ...
  3. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 17 December 2021 05: 53
    +14
    The most interesting information was posted by the author ...
    Orlan10 crash in the Caspian Sea, and how the British combat swimmers got there during the day ... what looks like a planned operation.
    I would like to know the details of this case.
    And so the author outlined what many members of the forum already understood ... the question of how to fix the situation with this very import substitution?
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 17 December 2021 06: 04
      +25
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      the question is how to fix the situation with this very import substitution?

      I remember one horseradish (such a vegetable), from the government, said: "We will buy everything." but only bought a villa over the hill ...
      1. Barge_watchman
        Barge_watchman 17 December 2021 14: 29
        +5
        Furniture more ... repeat
      2. vadim dok
        vadim dok 17 December 2021 17: 24
        +1
        And also the Chief said: Let's wait 'they "will invent, but we are scratching! It does not work !!!!
        1. vervolk
          vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 32
          -11
          specify, are you talking about biden or already about the cleaver? Who is your chief appointed there now?
      3. vervolk
        vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 30
        -9
        do not specify what your speculations are about?
    2. avia12005
      avia12005 17 December 2021 06: 07
      -9
      Change responsible persons. Set a deadline for completing tasks. For failure to comply - Kolyma.
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 17 December 2021 06: 14
        +10
        Quote: avia12005
        Change responsible persons. Set a deadline for completing tasks. For failure to comply - Kolyma.

        someone said: "we are not 37 years old." in conditions when "all around" it is impossible.
      2. prior
        prior 17 December 2021 10: 55
        +9
        What Kolyma ?!
        The sawmill works, money is sawed successfully. This is the main thing in the project.
        And when the uselessness of the UAV data becomes clear to the Kolyma, there will be no one or nowhere to send ...
      3. Barge_watchman
        Barge_watchman 17 December 2021 14: 30
        +5
        And for the fulfillment - Miami Beach ..
      4. vervolk
        vervolk 18 December 2021 07: 09
        -2
        the typical approach of the "red director" is to bang on the table, swear. plant. only from this the result will not be. to achieve the result, economic motivation and profit are needed, so now the world is arranged and the Russian economy!
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 17 December 2021 06: 15
      +1
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      And so the author outlined what many members of the forum already understood ...

      Alexei! For example, it is not clear to me whether the “responsible” does not have a heartache for the fate of the task entrusted to it? What do they want? To seize the moment - to cut down the attendants and ... beyond the cordon? Or they are building a cooperative "Lake Baikal-2".
      There are objective reasons for this stagnation - open your eyes to the guarantor. Tell him that you can't live your whole life with blinked eyes in your own cozy bunker little world. So many people in the administration - you can send one person to live permanently at the place of production with control over what is happening.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 17 December 2021 06: 23
        +1
        I don’t know by what rules the presidential administration works ... this kitchen is closed for viewing from our society ... therefore, on what basis the most important decisions are made there, it is difficult to say. hi
    4. Lepsik
      Lepsik 17 December 2021 08: 29
      -10
      Tales from the Vienna Woods. What did they want to find there? List of foreign components?
    5. Hagen
      Hagen 17 December 2021 08: 33
      +4
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      the question is how to fix the situation with this very import substitution?

      This week, information about the construction of a plant for the production of microelectronic components went through the media. The lag behind Western production is recognized and money is being poured into this industry. The issue of import substitution on this topic is difficult, but today they are beginning to push through it. Time will show how this will develop .... But UAVs are working in Syria. The UAV has more than 140 hours in the air. I do not think that tomorrow we will necessarily "tear" everyone in this matter, but we will reach an acceptable level. Today, no country can boast of its own apparatus absolutely. The same Bayraktar was assembled "from pine forest" (there are production of the USA, Canada, England, Austria). This is the case for large assemblies, which are assembled on the same principle from smaller parts produced in an even wider range of countries. There is nothing supernatural about it. And, yes, unfortunately we have never set standards in microelectronics. But we did not die under the USSR, we will not die today .... It is impossible to be a leader in all spheres. You just need to understand how this can be compensated. And these are the same countermeasures for UAVs. Of course, today the situation is not entirely happy, but not fatal either. Let's break through ...
      1. Avior
        Avior 17 December 2021 09: 29
        +17
        It is impossible to be a leader in all areas.

        Basically there are two approaches here
        1. You have allies leading in certain areas, and then you do not need to lead everywhere yourself
        2. There are no suitable allies - you have to achieve leadership in all areas. Although it is very expensive, the result is questionable.
        Something like this
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 17 December 2021 09: 45
          -4
          Quote: Avior
          Basically there are two approaches here

          You cannot embrace the immensity. Sometimes there are situations when you need to look for a waist .... It is the lot of top-level politicians to choose the lesser of evils. And in this case, a different approach is needed, not symmetrical. In the end, neither the United States, nor Israel, nor Turkey risk us actually "demonstrating" their advantages in the production of UAVs, although they have them ...laughing
        2. link
          link 21 January 2022 22: 33
          0
          Yeah. For example, we give Turkey one S-400, and Turkey gives us 100 Bayraktars.
      2. Disant
        Disant 17 December 2021 13: 09
        +1
        It is impossible to be a leader in all areas. You just need to understand how this can be compensated

        exactly.
        It's just that the author did not decide what we all need: either the generals like overslept and then we need to accelerate, or there is nothing to increase the niche of market sales of drones with anything.
    6. Avior
      Avior 17 December 2021 09: 32
      +3
      The Caspian Sea is an inland sea. Therefore, first of all, the question arises - how did the British swimmers end up there?
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 17 December 2021 09: 50
        -4
        Sea of ​​Azov, English swimmers from the "secret" base in Berdyansk. Such a fairy tale will suit you. From the vastness of the tyrnet from November 21, 2021, There are a lot of such articles on this day.
      2. Anzhey V.
        17 December 2021 14: 25
        +5
        British combat swimmers have been stationed in Berdyansk on a permanent basis for several years.
        There, over the next couple of years, an operational base will be built specifically for their needs.
      3. Barge_watchman
        Barge_watchman 17 December 2021 14: 34
        +4
        It is internal, but not Russian.
        Rumors about the omnipotence of MI6, they are not out of nowhere.
        Besides, pounds sterling is heavier than poods of rubles ...
      4. vervolk
        vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 33
        -5
        internally whose? however, you have an interesting globe ...
    7. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 17 December 2021 09: 48
      +1
      I decided to check the author's material. And lo and behold, on November 21, 2021, from all the cracks of the tyrnet, articles about the imported components of our UAVs crawled. And the question of what year they produced these UAVs. Outpost and Zastava are Israeli vehicles, only named after ours. The first ones were assembled from all that delivered by Israel.By the way, they made quite a few, the contract in 2010 was $ 500 million. For a long time the enemy will be hit by Russian - Israeli UAVs. By Orlan in the Caspian Sea. Not in the Caspian, but in the Azov, the English special forces special forces dived from the base in Berdyansk maybe he didn’t dive .. Here is a fairy tale.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 17 December 2021 11: 28
        -2
        Quote: tralflot1832
        I decided to check the author's material. And lo and behold, on November 21, 2021, from all the cracks of the tyrnet, articles about the imported components of our UAVs appeared.

        Mikrukhs are mostly "civil", produced in the billions. Even with the "Iron Curtain" they carried everything that was required. It's much easier now. Microelectronics in the country was deliberately destroyed ... in the 90s, salaries were simply not paid for half a year. Nevertheless, many factories survived. In Zelenograd, for example. Don't read about their bankruptcy. There, someone transfers shares to someone ... and the factories are working. The problem of replacing microcircuits for the defense industry is in their small batch size. It's really expensive. Costs go down with millions of circulations, and the defense industry needs thousands. Easier to buy. And make a stock. For several years ... so, in fact, they do.
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 17 December 2021 11: 47
          -6
          Low-air system is our scourge. I remember the ancient scandal with Sony Playstation, I don't remember the model. They were banned from selling to Pakistan and Iran, such as the microprocessor from it can be easily used in the missile guidance system. Insanity. No one has canceled the smugglers.
      2. Storog dvornik
        Storog dvornik 18 December 2021 03: 54
        +2
        In fact, all the samples indicated in the article, to put it mildly, are not fresh ...
        And about half and all who know Vicki do not know ...
    8. Artyom Karagodin
      Artyom Karagodin 17 December 2021 11: 35
      -5
      Somehow we argued with the author in a discussion under which article I don’t remember. So he said bluntly, they say, you yourself understand that Russia will not get out of the current crisis. So everything is clear to Anzhey. He is already burying China with might and main. The United States alone is likely to remain on the planet. And Turkey and Britain. To his great joy, judging by the compliments lavished on these countries.
    9. Anzhey V.
      17 December 2021 14: 28
      0
      Good day, Alexey)

      The case is very curious, and it really was a planned operation. Unfortunately, there are very few details - but the British have an extensive presence on the territory of Ukraine, including the electronic warfare units. The UAV was "flooded" by them, and then raised
    10. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2021 15: 41
      -4
      There is no way for a UAV - in order to replace everything described in the article with tens and hundreds of thousands of UAVs, you need to produce and a huge number of third-party products where all these components will be used - in order for these productions to pay off, otherwise they will stand for most of the year without business and eventually go bankrupt.
    11. expert
      expert 17 December 2021 21: 41
      0
      Just about, in fact, I wonder which of the "friendly" countries of the Caspian littoral sheltered the Britons, and most importantly, leaked information about the fall of Orlan to the British?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 December 2021 18: 34
        -1
        This is either Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan - most likely the first, since their elite has the same property and grandmothers in Britain, and the Kazakhs not so long ago froze accounts for several tens of billions, most likely they put pressure on the Kazakhs with the conditions that British intelligence would be present in Kazakhstan.
    12. Titus_2
      Titus_2 19 December 2021 02: 01
      0
      Everyone was waiting for someone to pay attention to it ..,. How did the British get to the Caspian?
    13. svoroponov
      svoroponov 19 December 2021 05: 48
      -1
      There, in Azerbaijan, the British are involved in oil production.
      Ours behind them and the region in the border area
      and are looked after with the help of the UAV.
      There he flopped into the water, and they picked him up. Lightweight, does not sink. So what about combat swimmers is a linden tree.
  4. Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Obi-Wan Kenobi 17 December 2021 06: 04
    +17
    Well, something like that I expected.
    But on Sundays, Military reception, Alexei Egorov, Zvezda TV channel - mmmmmm ... just laudatory odes of "no analogue in the world" and "Russian world records"!
    And in fact - "Visiting a fairy tale"!
    1. Lepsik
      Lepsik 17 December 2021 08: 28
      -16
      In fact, the Russian Federation liberated most of Syria, destroying all tomahawks and bairaktars
    2. Disant
      Disant 17 December 2021 13: 20
      -8
      And in fact - "Visiting a fairy tale"!

      but in fact, believing the specified components, the author did not provide comparisons of components similar in weight and dimensions to the eagle of the predator.
      there is also everything from a pine forest, and the price, go, like 5-10 eagles for one traitor.
      .
      if someone wants here and right now to be native, native for all 100, and be sure to go ahead - welcome to the arms race and polka-dot shorts of the same color for everyone
    3. Barge_watchman
      Barge_watchman 17 December 2021 14: 37
      0
      The obvious is the incredible ...
    4. vervolk
      vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 35
      -6
      maybe your "facts" are fakes and propaganda?
    5. Third district
      Third district 26 December 2021 15: 40
      -1
      But then, as loudly always shouts, this very Alexei Egorov. He probably thinks that if he shouts at the top of his lungs, his remortages will look more convincing.
  5. AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship 17 December 2021 06: 08
    +7
    It's sad to read this. On microprocessors - everything is clear. To paraphrase the well-known phrase of Putin, one can say: "They are not and never were." But can not g ... put their batteries?
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 17 December 2021 06: 15
      +8
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      But can not g ... put their batteries?
      where are they ? Look at your apartment in your apartment, what's "yours"? except that the "furniture" from "chipboard", and that is covered with "mdf" Chinese.
    2. Cruorvult
      Cruorvult 17 December 2021 07: 05
      0
      In fact, there is a very high level of localization, the author just decided not to talk about it, that's all.
    3. URAL72
      URAL72 17 December 2021 07: 08
      +1
      But can not g ... put their batteries?

      New lithium-ion and other batteries were not produced in the Soviet Union, and then there were only miserable attempts to establish production. The main reason here is the fall in the extraction and production of rare earth elements. There is already a program and funding has been allocated to remedy the situation. In the meantime, China is a monopolist, and no one can compete with it on price.
      1. ramzay21
        ramzay21 18 December 2021 20: 40
        +2
        New lithium-ion and other batteries were not produced in the Soviet Union, and then there were only miserable attempts to establish production

        I’ll tell you more, when the Union was there, no one in the world produced, and the Union was at the forefront of world progress, let me remind you that the world's first fully automatic landing of a flying vehicle was performed by the Soviet Buran.
    4. Bradley
      Bradley 17 December 2021 08: 07
      +2
      But can not g ... put their batteries?

      Maybe why. But the difference in dimensions and weight at ~ power.
    5. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2021 15: 45
      -6
      In Russia, there is the development of microprocessors - but it is unprofitable to produce them in Russia, so they are produced in Taiwan.
      1. HefeDMB69
        HefeDMB69 17 December 2021 17: 48
        0
        It is technologically impossible to produce them in Russia, do you understand? There are no technologies (equipment), no materials, no specialists!
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 17 December 2021 20: 03
          -7
          There are specialists in the required quantity and there are no equipment, and most importantly, what is the point of investing in this if these productions do not pay off due to the lack of demand for profitability, in the end, the price of the price for the final product will be huge.
        2. svoroponov
          svoroponov 19 December 2021 06: 07
          -1
          Not long ago it was somewhere that processors began to be produced in Russia. In addition, we established the production of resistances, capacitors, and of some necessary logic microcircuits and some other components and devices based on them.
  6. rocket757
    rocket757 17 December 2021 06: 12
    +4
    Summarizing

    In general ... nothing new has been described, not disclosed.
    By the way, this is the saddest thing .... the problems of our military-industrial complex, and the industry, have been known for a LONG time !!! and there is very little news on how to fix them.
    Whose fault? What / G / a / D / ina prevents our civil aviation from taking off, for example, and so on, and so on ???
    1. ramzay21
      ramzay21 18 December 2021 20: 50
      +4
      Whose fault? What / G / a / D / ina prevents our civil aviation from taking off, for example, and so on, and so on ???

      Every crime has a first and last name. The names of those who finished off our civil aviation industry are known, they are all in high positions and in great friendship with our President, they did not do it for free and in the interests of well-known companies on the planes we are flying now, but you cannot touch them, they are untouchable and the laws on them do not apply.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 18 December 2021 21: 02
        0
        Systemic problems, changing some personalities, fundamentally, will not work ... if someone hopes to solve problems in a simple way, he should get off the willow tree, otherwise it will remain a "bird" Naivnyak, which.
  7. Magic archer
    Magic archer 17 December 2021 06: 54
    +22
    Maybe I’ll grab some cons. But I don’t care. Pomnitzzza was a task, one red-haired rogue. We’ll give a lot of money and you raise Nanotechnology in Mother Russia. No money, no technology (promised by the way) NO. So I have a question .Rhetorical. Why no one is sitting!? Apparently the hand washes his hand, all that. negative
    1. vervolk
      vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 37
      -9
      and can you tell me what tasks were set and what has been achieved?
    2. Storog dvornik
      Storog dvornik 18 December 2021 06: 04
      +3
      Who will put him in prison? ...
      He personally brought the Darkest One to Tsar Boris the Drunkard to the bride, with all the ensuing consequences for the Russian Federation ...
      And as you know, VVP remembers good, and does not give up "his" people, he is such a darling ...
      Although Red rather simply has compromising evidence, and is stuck, and, for example, Sobchak may have had it, but in an unreliable place ...
      This usually happens, someone is in the ground, and someone is not under jurisdiction and is always in office ...
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      2. ramzay21
        ramzay21 18 December 2021 21: 37
        +4
        Although Red rather simply has compromising evidence, and is stuck, and, for example, Sobchak may have had it, but in an unreliable place ...

        Redhead is the most cunning and quirky of all the members of the anti-Soviet circle of economists formed in the early 80s, and who became the new Russian elite.
        Most likely he has compromising evidence on all current leaders, but he keeps afloat because he is a very good intriguer, he can always be useful to the right people, although he is not able to do anything constructive, like all members of their circle, he can only destroy and twist.
        1. Storog dvornik
          Storog dvornik 18 December 2021 22: 12
          +2
          Rather, at the end of the 70s ... This "circle" was supervised personally by Andropov ...
          An international institute was created in Vienna and its graduates: There is a photo - Koh (fugitive), Ulyukaev (inmate for the "basket of sausages"), Glazyev (like a left patriot) and Red Tolya Chubais ... there are more characters, but not bright ...
        2. vervolk
          vervolk 19 December 2021 10: 38
          -4
          Yes, of course, no one created zircons, calibers or daggers, there are no nuclear-powered icebreakers of the "Arctic" project, the Crimean bridge has not been built in three years. Crimea has not been returned to Russia, only everything is being destroyed and devoured by the Soviet legacy, your mantra has long since set the teeth on edge ...
          1. Storog dvornik
            Storog dvornik 23 December 2021 23: 43
            +1
            Citizen, keep yourself in hand, what is the Soviet legacy, where is it, apparently you were deceived?
            To you advanced, Unified State Exam, educated thinkers, President Putin has long explained that the USSR produced only galoshes ...
            Citizen, do you know what galoshes are, did you use them? ... In the early 70s of the twentieth century, I used to visit dedsad ...
            Putin is not lying ...
            And the fact that you and other bloggers and YouTubers, sitting on the couch, are building bridges, launching icebreakers and launching zircons, this is clear to everyone ...
            I only ask you, be careful, observe safety standards, do not damage your health by falling off the couch ...
    3. DominickS
      DominickS 18 December 2021 11: 26
      +2
      This is how it has always been in the new Russia. Only those who dare to encroach on the interests of the "big uncles" and state monopolists, or even go to the next world, are in prison, allegedly having committed suicide.
    4. ramzay21
      ramzay21 18 December 2021 21: 22
      +2
      Pomnitzza was given the task, one red-haired rogue. We'll give a lot of money, and you raise Nanotechnology in Mother Russia. No money, no technology (promised by the way)

      So he is the author and architect of the most monstrous robbery in history called grabbing, what do you want from those in whose interests he did it? Most of today's richest and most influential people in Russia knew him from the anti-Soviet circle, which he headed in the early 80s.
      For the same reason, he was also appointed the head of RAO UES of Russia, with certain consequences, by the way, Voloshin was the chairman of the Board of Directors of this company at that time, and then RosNANO.
  8. Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 17 December 2021 06: 55
    +10
    Hmm.

    We did not catch up with the 50-kilogram Helfair, the 59-kilogram Vortex-M is bad, because there are few of them.

    We will not talk about KAB-20 and KAB-50, as well as about the requirements for localization.

    As the saying goes, "half-truth is worse than a lie", it turned out one-sidedly.

  9. the same doctor
    the same doctor 17 December 2021 07: 23
    +18
    Why is Russia lagging behind in UAVs? Because a UAV is not an airplane. It is software and control drives, it is navigation and communication. And we have given UAVs to aircraft manufacturers who enthusiastically do what they can. The money is spent on engines and gliders, landing gear and other crap. Likewise, the creators of combat robots are enthusiastically spending on under-tankettes, instead of creating a control system for at least a thirty-four.
    And there is no money left for avionics. Meanwhile, any maize operator or a decommissioned MIG-21 with a scanty resource can act as a UAV.
    Funds on UAVs should be spent correctly, and for this a new design bureau should be created, the task of which will be to re-equip existing aircraft into UAVs. Stop imitating work.
  10. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 17 December 2021 07: 43
    -3
    Developing your own technique is not a magic wand. UAVs are still a weapon against the Barmaleevs, so we don't tear our ass. By the way, is there at least one drone from the above list of UAVs?
    1. arkadiyssk
      arkadiyssk 17 December 2021 09: 05
      +6
      Weapons against the Barmaleevs? NKrbkh II, as it were, nullified this training manual, it turned out that this is an excellent weapon against a motorized rifle army. And from the shock point of view and reconnaissance and target designation of artillery. Or do you think that it will be possible for the Air Force to fly in the frontal zone to look for and hunt for drones? So they will also hunt for fighters - there was an example in Turkey, when F-24s were used from the depths of the country on the SU-16 licking the border.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 17 December 2021 13: 36
        -3
        And what is NKrbh II? The enemies of the UAV are not aviation, but air defense and electronic warfare. Until a UAV with a truly artificial intelligence is invented, it will remain an expensive useless toy against an enemy who does not have electronic warfare, and until a radar and weapons with a range greater than that of air defense are shoved into the UAV, it will not approach the enemy troops at the strike range. There is not a single example of the use of UAVs in a war against a well-armed enemy.
        1. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 17 December 2021 14: 25
          +5
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          And what is NKrbh II? The enemies of the UAV are not aviation, but air defense and electronic warfare. Until a UAV with a truly artificial intelligence is invented, it will remain an expensive useless toy against an enemy who does not have electronic warfare, and until a radar and weapons with a range greater than that of air defense are shoved into the UAV, it will not approach the enemy troops at the strike range. There is not a single example of the use of UAVs in a war against a well-armed enemy.

          Air defense without an air force is ineffective and expensive. Everything should be balanced.
        2. Barge_watchman
          Barge_watchman 17 December 2021 14: 45
          -1
          And what kind of air defense are you going to work out? one short. will not reach, the second, terribly dear, and simply will not see ...
          And electronic warfare against plywood crafts is just nothing.
          And to kill the emitter is like two fingers. The first to fly is an aluminum shelf, the second is a plywood plane with an airborne radar. First-second tactics.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 17 December 2021 15: 52
            -5
            Against Bayraktars and the like, the best thing is Armor and Torah, as well as radar stations Gamma Casta and Niobium - working in a single complex.
            1. Barge_watchman
              Barge_watchman 17 December 2021 16: 58
              -1
              The best - because there is nothing else?
              I think MAM-L will see Thor earlier ...
              about the rest I can not say anything - I have not heard.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 17 December 2021 20: 11
                -3
                It has a maximum range of 10 kilometers - the new one has up to 30, but it also weighs 150 kilograms. Bayraktar will not take it under the wing from Thor, the range of destruction is 20 kilometers at an altitude of 10 kilometers Minimum target RCS: 0,05 m so MAM L will not be a problem for him the main thing is that the calculations were not idiots who were in Armenia.
                1. Barge_watchman
                  Barge_watchman 30 December 2021 14: 14
                  0
                  A - the calculations will be idiots,
                  B - The rocket is up, the bomb is down, so the range of destruction is not so simple.
                  B - Akyndzhi will rise.
      2. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 17 December 2021 14: 27
        +3
        Quote: arkadiyssk
        Or do you think that it will be possible for the Air Force to fly in the frontal zone to look for and hunt for drones? So they will also hunt for fighters - there was an example in Turkey, when F-24s were used from the depths of the country on the SU-16 that licked the border.

        It is the Air Force that can hunt drones most efficiently, they fly slowly, somewhere around 200 kilometers per hour. In addition, the Air Force can deliver effective strikes against the bases of the same Bayraktars.
  11. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 17 December 2021 08: 08
    +9
    I remember how about 10 years ago at UZGA they began to assemble the Israeli Searcher II under the name "Outpost".
    Things were going hard. The training of the personnel only in the assembly took a year. Then, they began to slowly make the hull in place. Collected several sets. Then the Americans began to yell that these were all sanction technologies. A lot of time and effort went into ours to persuade the staff to shut up and allow the sale, they say, this is no longer a secret, yesterday, they will go to peaceful needs, etc., etc.
    Everything seemed to be getting better, but after Shoigu demanded that priority be given to the equipment of Russian manufacturers and the Searcher II was supplied with Russian GLONASS and Russian electronic intelligence equipment ...
    As a result, the drones were almost twice as heavy as the original and could no longer take off. I had to abandon some of the device's capabilities, remove some of the equipment, and this is all to the detriment of functionality, reliability, fault tolerance, maintainability, etc., etc. So the Outposts fall here and there ...
    1. vervolk
      vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 41
      0
      excuse me, is glonass heavier? radio-technical (!) intelligence equipment? which? and to remove a part of what equipment? sorry again, but in the form that you described this is incredible nonsense ...
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 17 December 2021 20: 38
        +1
        Quote: vervolk
        excuse me, is glonass heavier? radio-technical (!) intelligence equipment? which? and to remove a part of what equipment? sorry again, but in the form that you described this is incredible nonsense ...

        The complete set of equipment necessary for filling drones at that time was not in the Russian Federation for the reason that it had never been developed by anyone and, accordingly, was not produced. The part that was neither in size nor in weight did not fit, since it was not made for drones, but for something else. Some had to be abandoned altogether, some were somehow placed. To me this state of affairs seems quite plausible.
        1. vervolk
          vervolk 18 December 2021 07: 00
          +1
          I see another version more plausible: since you did not answer a single clarifying question and you could not concretize your post, most likely everything you said is the fruit of your imagination. This state of affairs seems plausible to me ... hi
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 18 December 2021 09: 24
            0
            Quote: vervolk
            I see another version more plausible: since you did not answer a single clarifying question and you could not concretize your post, most likely everything you said is the fruit of your imagination. This state of affairs seems plausible to me ... hi

            Well, in that case, I dare not delay any longer. hi
  12. Lepsik
    Lepsik 17 December 2021 08: 25
    -16
    To summarize, as soon as the Russian Federation arrives (Syria, Karabakh), all its rivals scoff and flee, liberating the territory, losing all their super-super drones, tamahawks and other low-tech guano.
  13. 2112vda
    2112vda 17 December 2021 08: 28
    +5
    There are no domestic motors, no domestic electronics, there are questions with weapons. Everything is as usual with us, until "the roast cock in the crown and the opposite part of the body bites" nothing changes. Well, where are our private entrepreneurs who, as promised, will sort out any problem?
    They destroyed everything, and now they are scratching their turnips.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 17 December 2021 08: 57
      +9
      Quote: 2112vda
      Well, where are our private entrepreneurs who, as promised, will settle any problem?

      Someone is sitting, someone left the country or took out their business, the overwhelming majority simply did not start their own business or closed it at the very beginning.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2021 15: 58
      -4
      It is unprofitable to produce there is no sales market for the payback of production - the simplest and most understandable explanation from an entrepreneur.
    3. vervolk
      vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 43
      -8
      uh uh. and where did the motors go? what motors by the way? what is wrong with domestic electronics? or specify what patronymic do you mean Canadian or all the same hohlyatsky ...
  14. Zoer
    Zoer 17 December 2021 09: 04
    +6
    The funny thing is that the chips in all aircraft and other military equipment, as well as in automotive equipment, do not require completely advanced technologies of 5 nanometers. There, 100 nm is quite enough. AngstremT possesses technological equipment for this process technology. BUT, why is AngstremT bankrupt ...
    1. Skay
      Skay 17 December 2021 10: 08
      +3
      BUT, why is AngstremT bankrupt ...

      Effective managers have worked. And now the orderlies have joined them.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2021 16: 04
      -4
      Because Angstrem T was focused exclusively on civilian life - and in civilian life these microprocessors turned out to be nafig, everyone bought foreign modern ones and there is little you open an open market in Russia, everyone decides from whom what and how much to buy, what to export, what to import, etc.
      1. Zoer
        Zoer 21 December 2021 11: 56
        +1
        And religion did not allow to release controllers, FPGAs of dual purpose? Or did they not bring khaki paint to the factory? What nonsense? Almost any electronics plant always serves the military-industrial complex and only then consumer goods.
  15. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 17 December 2021 09: 45
    +6
    I read the article and felt so bitter and sad in my soul that my feet themselves carried to the refrigerator with a supply of "bitter" ... and only prudence with difficulty stopped at the last moment, saying: "Well, not in the morning!" ... I had to pour a cup of coffee, a drop of a spoonful of rum (well ... did you come in vain?) and ponder ... But why did the author so diligently keep silent about the aerial munitions, which are designed specifically for drones? Weighing from 20 to 50 kilos ... controlled and "gravitational"! With byada engines? Well, yes ... there is a problem ... but it can be solved, according to the reports! And some engines are being developed ... and the plant is selected for production ... A plant for the production of UAVs is being built by Kronstadt ... they will develop there too! With microelectronics seams? But the other day I heard a message that a large plant for the production of microchips is being built ... Of course, there will be curious people who will ask: "And where are the" electronic "factories ... for example, in Zelenograd?" But we are Russians! We are not curious and will always answer the curious: "This is Russia, baby!" The country lives from revolution to revolution ... and the main principle of any revolution is: "First, we will destroy everything to the ground, and only then ....!" So it came "later"! So, there are problems ... and we can even agree that they are not insignificant (!); but they decide ... maybe "at the very least", all are decided! And reading the Author, one might think that he sat down to knock on the "keyboard", having forgotten to take off his night blindfold in the morning ... The article is not even "everything is in a fog ..."; but "complete darkness"!
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 17 December 2021 11: 35
      +9
      Everything is simple - the author's article does not take into account: "we will build soon, now we will launch, everything will be, but later" .. and she - according to the situation for today, but for today, everything is as in the article .. well, when we start and build everything, as the saying goes: "we will look" and the articles will be different .. otherwise the nano-red one has already built-built and never built microelectronics for 10 years .. therefore, in conclusions about the situation today, it is logical to be guided by what you can touch with your hands today .. although it should be noted, in fairness, that today the situation with UAVs is much better than 10 years ago ..
    2. Artyom Karagodin
      Artyom Karagodin 17 December 2021 11: 41
      -3
      Have you not noticed that the author's articles are fine only in Britain, Turkey and the United States? Maybe somewhere else, but so far I don’t remember any other publications. But definitely not with China. The question is: what is the author doing in "this country" if he has already decided that we are a skiff?
    3. Anzhey V.
      17 December 2021 15: 24
      +2
      But why did the author so diligently keep silent about the aerial munitions, which are designed specifically for drones? Weighing from 20 to 50 kilos ... controlled and "gravitational"


      The author did not keep silent - he simply does not have the habit of writing about the models of non-existent weapons)

      KAB-20, of which you speak, have not been ordered by the Ministry of Defense, have not been tested and not produced. Work on them was carried out, but, alas, that was the end of it.

      In addition, the same critical arguments are applied to the KAB as to unguided aerial bombs - the UAV for striking must be located almost directly above the target (albeit in the case of the KAB and at a much higher altitude).

      At the very least, gliding bombs are needed so as not to expose the vehicles under attack, bringing them directly to the line of contact.
      1. Petio
        Petio 17 December 2021 17: 32
        +5
        KAB-20 S was thrown into the exercises Zapad 21 from the Outpost. The video beat.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 17 December 2021 18: 44
        +4
        Quote: Anjay V.
        Glide bombs are at least required

        Sweetheart! There is one UPAB-50 gliding bomb and one X-50 air-to-surface missile in the "family" of aerial ammunition for UAVs!



        And do not think that the guided munition "without wings" like a stone will fall to the ground after being dropped! At least 5 km will fly ...
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 17 December 2021 19: 12
          +5
          And this is about the KAB-20 ...!
          1. stankow
            stankow 18 December 2021 02: 25
            -2
            No, this is a cartoon! ;)
    4. HefeDMB69
      HefeDMB69 17 December 2021 17: 57
      +2
      You can build a microchip plant. But! There you can only package other people's chips into other people's cases. And the chips themselves are not possible. There is no equipment (no one will sell it), there are no developers of the entire required range of chips. To do all this, you need five five-year plans, state will, 150-250 billion dollars. Takshta won't take off. During Putin’s four five-year plans, nothing took off from him.
      1. vervolk
        vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 46
        -2
        yes yes zircons no calibers do not fly bridge did not build it all mosfilm how is it))))
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 17 December 2021 20: 15
        0
        150-250 billion dollars - What other billions of dollars, if everything in Russia is in rubles, 2027 billion rubles have been allocated for the development of microelectronics until 800, but there will be no mass production of all components in Russia.
    5. expert
      expert 17 December 2021 21: 59
      +1
      The topic is both interesting and really sad. I, as an absolute amateur (not a professional), read the article entirely on negative emotions. And suddenly I remembered when I was a kid, I made aircraft models with motors. The motors were very capricious, they ran on a mixture of gasoline, oil and ether. But they worked, they screamed terribly.
      They were called, in my opinion, MK16 and MK12. Attention, these were the 60s! Now I asked Google a search for micromotors for models, the result is only foreign ones.
  16. riwas
    riwas 17 December 2021 10: 15
    +2
    We have good relations with China. Why not use their components while you don't have your own.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 17 December 2021 11: 06
      +5
      Quote: riwas
      good relations with China. Why not use their components while you don't have your own.

      Duc, are used! But future relations with China can be confidently predicted only for the near future! The distant future is in the "fog"! That is why it is necessary to "have your own" ... and urgently!
    2. Anzhey V.
      17 December 2021 15: 19
      +2
      We have good relations with China. Why not use their components while you don't have your own.


      I will disappoint you a little, but in China there are also very big problems with the creation of drones - including those related to components. The Chinese could not even master the composite fuselages - they make them duralumin. Their motors and electronic components are also American and European.

      Well, it should also be said that the PRC is categorically against the exchange of military technologies. Moscow has repeatedly tried through the Ministry of Defense - but Beijing sabotages any cooperation.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2021 16: 08
      -5
      What kind of components does China have?
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 17 December 2021 18: 50
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        What kind of components does China have?

        The microcircuits are riveted ... And everything (or almost everything ...) that is on the microcircuits ...
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 17 December 2021 20: 19
          -3
          Chinese development and on Chinese equipment - this is called its own, but China does not have its own lithographic equipment, and the development of microprocessors from scratch is all that they work on and produce Western equipment in this regard, patents, technical documentation.
  17. Orsis338
    Orsis338 17 December 2021 10: 23
    +3
    It hurts to copy-paste material from one telegram channel recourse
    1. Anzhey V.
      17 December 2021 14: 20
      +8
      Because the author of the article and the channel is one person)
      1. Orsis338
        Orsis338 17 December 2021 14: 24
        +4
        Then no questions asked, nice to meet you))
        1. Anzhey V.
          17 December 2021 14: 36
          +1
          Mutually, nice to meet you)
  18. riwas
    riwas 17 December 2021 10: 32
    +6
    We have a UAB based on the 120-mm Gran 'mine.
    They have, however, the data is somewhat outdated.
    The Lockheed-Martin company has developed the Scorpion guided missile (UR): weight - 15,88 kg, length - 54,6 cm, diameter 10 cm, firing range - 18,5 km, warhead weight - 2,27 kg ( possible option warhead - 7,7 kg). GOS UR combined (KVO = 1 m): semi-active laser, thermal imaging and active millimeter-wave radar.
    Since 2010, Raytheon has been supplying the US Armed Forces with the Griffin missile launcher with a semi-active laser seeker and the NAVSTAR satellite navigation system. For modification A: weight - 15,7 kg, length - 109 cm, diameter - 14 cm, warhead weight - 6 kg. For modification B: weight - 13 kg, length - 99 cm, diameter - 14 cm, warhead weight - 3,6 kg.
    Guided aerial bomb SABER of the European concern MBDA: weight - 4,5 kg (with PRD - 13,6 kg), gliding range - 10-12 km. Inertial guidance system with satellite navigation system NAVSTAR and semi-active laser seeker in the final phase of the flight.
    Used combat elements (cassette submunitions) "BET" (infrared seeker in the bow and four acoustic sensors located at the tips of the cruciform wing), GBU-44E Viper Strike (weight about 20 kg, design as in "BET", only semi-active laser seeker and satellite navigation system NAVSTAR).
    https://lenta.ru/news/2012/09/05/viperstrike/
    https://bukren.my1.ru/Ware/asimm_otvet.doc
    The American Corporation "Raytheon" has developed a small-caliber guided aerial bomb (UAB) "Piros" with targeting by satellite navigation NAVSTAR and semi-active laser seeker. Weight - 6,13 kg, length - 56 cm.
    Another UAB STM Phase II weighs about 5 kg and has a length of just over 54 cm.
    "Smart bombs will be given to small drones"
    https://army-news.info/2011/08/nebolshim-bespilotnikam-vydadut-umnye-bomby/
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 17 December 2021 11: 17
      0
      Quote: riwas
      We have a UAB based on the 120-mm Gran 'mine.

      I have not heard ... I know that the warheads of Russian small-caliber bombs for UAVs are "based", to a large extent, on the warheads of the Grada NURS ... 2 "; but it is not necessary ... because. both TV.GSN and satellite correction are used in aviation munitions!
  19. prior
    prior 17 December 2021 10: 58
    +15
    It is clear from what has been written: amen to Russian electronics.
    Screwdriver assembly of other people's components is not electronics.
    1. vervolk
      vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 48
      -4
      and written yes. but generally no https://ruselectronics.ru hence the conclusion is written lies and fake
  20. Max PV
    Max PV 17 December 2021 11: 11
    +5
    But one of the most important and completely unreported problems lies in a completely different plane - the technical one.

    It’s just about the technical component, or rather, the need for imported components is only and exclusively talked about. But the problem, as always, is somewhat wider and deeper.
    First, you need to take into account the economic factor. If on fingers, then no one will build a production line at a price of, for example, $ 50 million for the sake of producing, say, a thousand microcircuits at $ 10 each, since in this case their price will be 50 thousand apiece. And if for the sake of something really necessary you can go for it, then for the sake of drones, especially those that are almost useless against a technically equipped enemy, no one will suffer such nonsense. And the drone is not even gold, it will be released "platinum with diamonds".
    Secondly, the factor of rationality in the use of the military budget. Russia does not have the ability to spend 800 billion dollars on defense, as the United States does. This means that it is necessary to constantly decide what to give priority attention to, what to limit to financing the development, and what to refuse altogether. And the main "problem" here is that the priorities of the Ministry of Defense usually do not include the favorite "fetishes", such as UAVs, KAZ, "Armat", 5th generation fighters and aircraft carriers, etc. As far as can be judged, the strategic nuclear forces, tactical missile weapons, air defense and rapid reaction forces and the first line, in particular the Airborne Forces, in particular, as a very flexible and combat-ready tool for solving military tasks, are at least considered the main directions of the Ministry of Defense for the last ten years. In recent years, the Arctic direction has been added to them. This is due to the fact that the aforementioned necessary, but not selected as priority areas, or are limited in their application, so to speak, secondary areas, or to realize their potential require equal amounts of new technology in comparison with the likely enemy. Of course, you can assume that the MO were mistaken, or that something else should be included in the list, but this is your personal opinion. Now you will reach the general's stars, you will be transferred to the "Arbat VO", you will decide wink
    Third, the factor of the role and place of certain weapons in the solution of possible military tasks. For example, UAVs, in their current form, are excellent for local conflicts against poor and backward countries. And try to use them, for example, against the US army (not an oil field guard battalion in the desert, but against a full-scale military group deployed according to all the rules, with all possible reinforcement and support) - some kind of "ax" or "Excalibur" will fly on your head even before you bring your drone to the front line using the remote control, and if not, it will be knocked down by air defense, fighters and electronic warfare with a probability of ninety percent. Or take the same resistance to electronic warfare and EMP means - never wondered why a drone with four electric motors, a pair of cameras, a processor and a high-speed data transmission channel is cheaper than an anti-aircraft missile with just one executive engine of the control system, a radio channel for a couple of commands and a radio fuse and / or GOS on one photoresistor? - that's precisely because of this. And here you need to take into account the factor of irreplaceability - is it possible to solve the problem without this sample, and with what losses.
    And I'm not even talking about the fact that not all issues can be solved instantly, even with all the technology and money. Take the same production of microcircuits. Let us assume that it is necessary. It is necessary to decide whether it will be a new plant, or a production line on an existing one, then make a project, on the basis of the project (at least in the dark) estimate the costs and budget for the next year (you can, of course, find money here and now, but only at the expense of whom something or something that is also needed - there are no "Wishlist" and "very necessary" lines in the budgets), build production, start it, catching the inevitable problems, and only after that get the desired result. And this is 2-3 years at least, if we take not the construction itself, but from the idea to the end. In general, there are many problems and necessary things, there are no opportunities for everything.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 17 December 2021 12: 42
      +4
      "The main directions of the Ministry of Defense for the last ten years at least considers strategic nuclear forces, tactical missile weapons, air defense and troops, so to speak, rapid reaction and first line ..." ///
      ----
      Right. And precisely for the reasons listed in the article.
      In large ballistic missiles, there is relatively little electronics, it is not important
      its weight and size.
      Although in the air defense, the absence of compact products is felt. GOS anti-aircraft
      Russian missiles lag significantly behind world models.
      1. vervolk
        vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 50
        -4
        the main thing is that the performance characteristics of Russian missiles are significantly superior to all foreign ones!
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 17 December 2021 19: 29
          +2
          Not performance characteristics, but the power of nuclear warheads in TNT equivalent.
          Power compensates for everything else.
          1. vervolk
            vervolk 18 December 2021 07: 04
            -4
            can you give an analogue of "zircon" in the western equivalent? exactly on performance characteristics?
    2. Knell wardenheart
      Knell wardenheart 19 December 2021 01: 54
      0
      God bless them with the UAV, the bird is not great, you can give this direction to private traders, let them sculpt Russian "Bayraktars". Like "Kronstadt" these are private or semi-private traders. In this direction, it is not at all necessary to fill everything with bobble and run to build cyclopean production lines where UAVs will be made like sausages.
      The problem is really in the components - not only for UAVs, in principle, the production of microcircuits needs to be deployed at home. This is no longer a question of prestige, it is a question of the position in which we found ourselves - we put ourselves in it and were put by circumstances / potential opponents. This situation will not get better, that is, it is better to play "for a long time".
  21. RuslanNN
    RuslanNN 17 December 2021 11: 25
    +3
    There is little Russian in these drones. Is everything really so sad? Team hodgepodge of some sort.
  22. Petio
    Petio 17 December 2021 11: 43
    +5
    And KAB-20 S and KAB-50S which are on the frames of use. They were also designated by the subscript B on Orion returning from Syria. Orion's designer also talked about their use there. I understand that they have a drawback - they can only be used on stationary targets. But at least something. Yes . It is much more difficult to make a small-sized laser head, but they did it for Krasnopol. Can't it be used for other bombs and rockets?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2021 16: 17
      0
      From Krasnopol the same, you can make a guided bomb weighing up to 60 kilograms, only the rudders can be changed to large non-retractable ones.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 17 December 2021 21: 18
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        From Krasnopol, the same can be made a guided bomb weighing up to 60 kilograms

        You can ... you can also adapt the "Edge" ... but why? A "family" of small-caliber ammunition for UAVs has been developed ...: KAB-20, KAB-50, UPAB-50, FAB-50, Kh-50 ...
        There were reports about the development of a controlled 100-kg aerial bomb by another design bureau for another UAV, but I do not know anything more about it ...
  23. alexey sidykin
    alexey sidykin 17 December 2021 11: 45
    +3
    Quote: Max PV
    But one of the most important and completely unreported problems lies in a completely different plane - the technical one.

    It’s just about the technical component, or rather, the need for imported components is only and exclusively talked about. But the problem, as always, is somewhat wider and deeper.
    First, you need to take into account the economic factor. If on fingers, then no one will build a production line at a price of, for example, $ 50 million for the sake of producing, say, a thousand microcircuits at $ 10 each, since in this case their price will be 50 thousand apiece. And if for the sake of something really necessary you can go for it, then for the sake of drones, especially those that are almost useless against a technically equipped enemy, no one will suffer such nonsense. And the drone is not even gold, it will be released "platinum with diamonds".
    Secondly, the factor of rationality in the use of the military budget. Russia does not have the ability to spend 800 billion dollars on defense, as the United States does. This means that it is necessary to constantly decide what to give priority attention to, what to limit to financing the development, and what to refuse altogether. And the main "problem" here is that the priorities of the Ministry of Defense usually do not include the favorite "fetishes", such as UAVs, KAZ, "Armat", 5th generation fighters and aircraft carriers, etc. As far as can be judged, the strategic nuclear forces, tactical missile weapons, air defense and rapid reaction forces and the first line, in particular the Airborne Forces, in particular, as a very flexible and combat-ready tool for solving military tasks, are at least considered the main directions of the Ministry of Defense for the last ten years. In recent years, the Arctic direction has been added to them. This is due to the fact that the aforementioned necessary, but not selected as priority areas, or are limited in their application, so to speak, secondary areas, or to realize their potential require equal amounts of new technology in comparison with the likely enemy. Of course, you can assume that the MO were mistaken, or that something else should be included in the list, but this is your personal opinion. Now you will reach the general's stars, you will be transferred to the "Arbat VO", you will decide wink
    Third, the factor of the role and place of certain weapons in the solution of possible military tasks. For example, UAVs, in their current form, are excellent for local conflicts against poor and backward countries. And try to use them, for example, against the US army (not an oil field guard battalion in the desert, but against a full-scale military group deployed according to all the rules, with all possible reinforcement and support) - some kind of "ax" or "Excalibur" will fly on your head even before you bring your drone to the front line using the remote control, and if not, it will be knocked down by air defense, fighters and electronic warfare with a probability of ninety percent. Or take the same resistance to electronic warfare and EMP means - never wondered why a drone with four electric motors, a pair of cameras, a processor and a high-speed data transmission channel is cheaper than an anti-aircraft missile with just one executive engine of the control system, a radio channel for a couple of commands and a radio fuse and / or GOS on one photoresistor? - that's precisely because of this. And here you need to take into account the factor of irreplaceability - is it possible to solve the problem without this sample, and with what losses.
    And I'm not even talking about the fact that not all issues can be solved instantly, even with all the technology and money. Take the same production of microcircuits. Let us assume that it is necessary. It is necessary to decide whether it will be a new plant, or a production line on an existing one, then make a project, on the basis of the project (at least in the dark) estimate the costs and budget for the next year (you can, of course, find money here and now, but only at the expense of whom something or something that is also needed - there are no "Wishlist" and "very necessary" lines in the budgets), build production, start it, catching the inevitable problems, and only after that get the desired result. And this is 2-3 years at least, if we take not the construction itself, but from the idea to the end. In general, there are many problems and necessary things, there are no opportunities for everything.

    You can’t say better
  24. vladcub
    vladcub 17 December 2021 12: 28
    +2
    In fact, "Forpost" are the simplest UAVs, the same ones are in Ukraine. This is the first generation.
    Comrades, I recommend to everyone the book "Military-technical intelligence. From Ilyich to Ilyich" is very interesting. There is an amusing incident.
    On the Californian coast, the storm threw a new Soviet torpedo. The Americans opened it, and there the filling is Genial Elektic. And at that time, as now, "dual-use" products were not allowed for export.
  25. ares1988
    ares1988 17 December 2021 13: 44
    +4
    Right now, they will tell you that you can put Hephaestus on the UAV, which will allow you to lay down a fab-50 from 8 km with a quo of 5 m.
  26. Tests
    Tests 17 December 2021 13: 47
    +1
    Magic Archer (Vladimir), dear, not long ago, about 3 days ago, in the comments information was posted about the chicks of Sobchakov's nest, who worked with Sobchak and who works now. In principle, nothing new, I just refreshed my memory and right there I remembered about the pension reform, the Sochi Olympics and the Football World Cup, the housing and communal services reform, the May 2021 decrees, I spat, but that's not the task, I immediately remembered the Forbes list ...
    1. vervolk
      vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 52
      -3
      recently, three days ago, a dossier about hunter biden and Zelensky's offshore accounts was published. he spat and waved it off, but immediately the list of presidents of democratic countries came across ...
  27. Bear
    Bear 17 December 2021 14: 20
    +3
    And who knows the fate of the excellent small UAV "Corsair" KB "Luch" Rybinsk? Flight tests began already in 2015, and in 2018 they were shown at the Parade on May 9, with stars on the fuselage and with ATGM "Attack". The problem arose again due to the Italian Zanzottera 498H engines, our APD-45 had to be finished. Now KB "Luch" seems to be under the wing of the UZGA. In general, in addition to shock functions, this UAV has excellent potential, as a reconnaissance and liaison officer (as a repeater).
  28. Ksanatos
    Ksanatos 17 December 2021 14: 23
    +8
    I remember looking for a replacement for STM32 and wandered into the website of Milandr, a domestic developer and manufacturer of integrated circuits. By the way, the development work on the STM32 analog was completed already in 2010. But here, as always, loaders give advice on how to make rockets.
  29. Barge_watchman
    Barge_watchman 17 December 2021 14: 25
    +2
    Even reluctant to comment.
    It’s a pity, I didn’t read it to the end ... there is an ATmega on the list, maybe there’s a five-dollar one flying with the brains of an Arduinka?
    I remember that someone made fun of Turkish "screwdriver" crafts.
  30. Elturisto
    Elturisto 17 December 2021 14: 56
    +5
    Thanks to the author for a detailed but incomplete review. It should be noted that the advertised Orion is equipped with an imported engine and a survey station. In addition, it should be added that ICEs are not produced in the Russian Federation and there are no plans to manufacture ICEs for equipping drones.
    1. Anzhey V.
      17 December 2021 15: 26
      0
      review.It should be noted that the advertised Orion is equipped with an imported engine and a survey station


      Thank you for the additions. If it's not difficult, please indicate the models, it's also interesting to read about this
      1. Elturisto
        Elturisto 17 December 2021 16: 40
        0
        Rotax engine (most likely Chinese), but I don’t remember about the observation station, in my opinion it’s Canadian, as well as on Bayraktar.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2021 16: 25
      +1
      "For the serial production of Orions, the Agat company, in cooperation with TsIAM, is developing the Russian APD-110/120 engine." Let's see what they do.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 17 December 2021 16: 28
        -3
        "After the Americans managed to block the supply of German RED A03 / V12s, the Klimov Design Bureau created the VK-800V engine, which was installed on the Altius and light Russian helicopters."
      2. Elturisto
        Elturisto 17 December 2021 16: 42
        -1
        Yes, there is nothing to watch, this story has been going on for a dozen years. The Russian Federation is not the USSR where they quickly established a special engine for the Bee in Kuibyshev. Can Soviet ministers really be compared with modern idiots?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 17 December 2021 20: 28
          -4
          Yes, the Soviet ministers were so smart - that they overwhelmed the whole country with their knowledge and skills, and you can see who is bigger here and you compared the engine for the Bee of 32 HP and for Orion of 120 HP.
          1. Elturisto
            Elturisto 17 December 2021 22: 05
            -2
            Yes, there is nothing to compare - the motor for the Bee was made and it flew off for 40 years, and the engine was 100 hp. effective idiots are not able to do - go convinced about the keyboard ...
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 18 December 2021 18: 39
              -4
              Don't be silly, they'll make it - and people like you will be killed on the keyboard.
    3. vervolk
      vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 54
      -3
      thank you for your useless review. right here on the site there is an article about engines for domestic drones https://topwar.ru/179711-rossija-poluchit-linejku-dvigatelej-dlja-otechestvennyh-udarnyh-bespilotnikov.html but why read yes? you can throw fakes ...
  31. p0pulivox
    p0pulivox 17 December 2021 15: 45
    -1
    winked Inspired by materials from open sources: the problem is not only with UAVs, but also with other military equipment. Apparently, first of all, it really concerns the electronic component base. We should also mention carbon composites and related chemical products, some types of engines and gearboxes for some engines ...
  32. vladcub
    vladcub 17 December 2021 15: 56
    0
    Comrades, I remembered that in Syria we use various UAVs, but in Ukraine, where will the new UAVs come from?
    Could it be old Ukrainian devices?
    1. Anzhey V.
      17 December 2021 16: 01
      -1
      Could it be old Ukrainian devices?


      Which have never been in service with the Ukrainian armed forces?

      in Syria we use various UAVs


      Yes, different - exactly all the nomenclature that was listed in the article.

      If you read carefully, the US Special Operations Forces removed 9 Russian UAVs from Syria.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 17 December 2021 20: 32
        -1
        And they realized that all these special operations were empty, nothing interesting in our UAVs, they never saw, but they let down millions of dollars.
  33. xomaNN
    xomaNN 17 December 2021 16: 08
    0
    For the Soviet-Russian military-industrial complex, the chain of "borrowed" Western components through the "third-fifth" hands, the process was fine-tuned. Nowadays, "pseudo-friends (partners) from the West, as EBn liked to call them, got alarmed and screwed on the tap. And of course, we cannot fix EVERYTHING to the microcircuits ourselves in the Russian Federation. We need to be more sophisticated and use corruption in the West. There people also like to sell for money. even what seems to be impossible love
    1. Elturisto
      Elturisto 17 December 2021 16: 44
      -3
      Do not drag the USSR dreamer here.
      1. vervolk
        vervolk 17 December 2021 18: 55
        -3
        Well, you fantasize about the engines for the UAV? what can only you? https://topwar.ru/179711-rossija-poluchit-linejku-dvigatelej-dlja-otechestvennyh-udarnyh-bespilotnikov.html
        1. Elturisto
          Elturisto 17 December 2021 19: 24
          -3
          yeah, follow the link again- "will" - go get drunk already on the Olginsky mouthpiece ...
          1. vervolk
            vervolk 18 December 2021 07: 07
            -3
            go for a ride on the floor and gnaw the rugs in impotent anger and envy and then you can papat into a zhovto-blakit rag))) you are up to our effective activity like cancer before Kherson)
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2021 20: 33
      0
      Now we are perfectly buying the entire sanctioning system through offshores.
  34. Egor53
    Egor53 17 December 2021 17: 14
    -1
    After 2015, no one doubts that Russia has the most efficient army in the world.
    The military equipment of the Russian Federation uses imported parts, and so what? Name me at least one country that would not use imported equipment in its weapons.
  35. A009
    A009 17 December 2021 21: 32
    +5
    There is leavened patriotism. There are cheers for patriots. There are simply inadequate Russophiles. And then there are all the faint-hearted people and "lost all the polymers". And this article is for them freedom. I especially like that there is nothing and nothing will happen. As I understand it, all of the virologists have retrained into microelectronics specialists?
    Now, in order, all or almost all microelectronic equipment is made in China (Taiwan) for this, Holland and (partially) Japan. Well, Intel, the old fashioned way. But there is such a thing. We are not sold not only military or dual-use electronics, but also the units themselves. Never. Therefore, we are developing our own. 90-60 nm is not super, but for military and strategic structures as well as for industrial equipment. But the same is not an option? it is necessary to keep up with the times and it is better to kick forward progress. Okay. Let's go the other way and make lithographers ourselves. And in a new way. Maskless. Those who know are already swollen. Who does not know, in short, now all the lithographer is masked. But the problem is that the mask cannot work for an infinite decrease in the wavelength, that is, a decrease in the topological norms of the processor. The waves are already in hard ultraviolet light. Further, the masks lose their meaning due to diffraction, dispersion, and other di. There are developments in maskless lithographers and the technology itself (its main parts) in Russia. And it was put into operation. That is, the process of building prototypes has been launched. There topology, if I remember correctly, is about 10-20 nm. maybe I'm lying. But somewhere like that. Plus then they will decrease. The problem with these lithographers is that they cannot compete in scale with the mask ones. There, conditionally, I made a mask for 1005000 million and stamp chips in millions. It will pay off in mass. Maskless - less productive. But for the military and critical sectors, the very thing, plus they can reduce the process technology, up to 3 and, probably, below. True, there are already quantum effects included. For example tunneling. But they will come up with something). In addition, there are options for scaling. Everything can be solved. The main thing is to work, and not to grieve on sites. I repeat - plus in production "usual" mask lithographs of mass industrial topology of about 65 nm. So it's too early to sprinkle with ashes. Although who stopped it on the site)))
  36. sportline
    sportline 17 December 2021 21: 51
    0
    So that the lag disappears in any kind of technology, our leadership needs to do only one thing. Finally, start paying people decent wages.
  37. St_Igor
    St_Igor 17 December 2021 22: 14
    +1
    The author seems to me to be Lefty Leskov. We can do it precisely, but not from cover to cover. I will assume that on its own, due to the volume of the task, Russia will not be able to solve the UAV problem for another 20 years for sure.
  38. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 17 December 2021 22: 44
    +1
    Disassembled Russian UAV Orlan-10. One of the vehicles of this type was raised by British combat swimmers in the Caspian Sea within XNUMX hours after the crash. Photo source: Conflict Armament Research


    I have only one question: what were these comrades doing in the Caspian Sea and what ... let them go there?
  39. svoit
    svoit 17 December 2021 22: 53
    +1
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Nevertheless, many factories survived. In Zelenograd, for example. Don't read about their bankruptcy

    I would very much like to know about the plant purchased from AMD and withdrawn from Dresden, production is still quite modern for many applications, it seems either 0.13 or 0.09 microns, AMD for several years produced millions of percentages.
  40. alexmach
    alexmach 17 December 2021 23: 18
    +2
    Orion will be able to lift no more than two of these missiles.

    And where does this information come from? The mass of the TPK vortex is 59 Kg.

    Well, Bayraktars fought with 4 ammunition, 2 of which were low-power.
  41. Vladimir Lenin
    Vladimir Lenin 17 December 2021 23: 57
    0
    After the mention of JSC "RD Alfa mikroelektronikas departaments" somehow I didn't feel like reading further. After the software "Alpha" was destroyed about "Latvian electronics" you can not even speak. JSC “RD Alfa mikroelektronikas departaments” uses old Soviet developments. Moreover, they received the technology from KB-1 of the future PJSC NPO Almaz. As for the "litaks" "captured" in the south-east of Ukraine, almost all of them, including the components for them, were purchased at "Ali Express". So far, it is cheaper to buy disposable systems in bulk at the "factory of the world"!
  42. Schweik
    Schweik 18 December 2021 00: 53
    0
    Kmk, the author mainly raises panic in the style of ipsoshniks.

    First, there are few countries in the world that are generally capable of completely localizing all high-tech components. It's just a reality, in the end it will be more profitable to buy something in China than to make small series at a loss. The same Turkey that Bayraktary collects from its components? Nonsense.

    Secondly, the production of its own UAVs in Russia, in fact, is just developing. So far there was no industry as such, so where will the whole set of its components come from? It is clear that the first series will be made from a prefabricated hodgepodge, while design solutions, software, general production chains, tactics of application, etc. are being worked out. When significant series of their UAVs arrive with a clear order schedule, then import substitution will accelerate.

    There is a lag, but I think everything will be fine with the UAV. Well, Russian UAVs of the first generations will have, say, 25% less payload. This means, roughly speaking, instead of three, four will need to be produced. That's all, by and large. There will be more than enough forces for local conflicts. And the confrontation with NATO still comes down to asymmetry and nuclear deterrence.
  43. Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 18 December 2021 01: 07
    +2
    By the way, what about Armata, which will "go to the troops" next year - is the same story with components?
  44. stankow
    stankow 18 December 2021 02: 12
    -1
    "Nothing," and then a long list of models, and only light ones. "Not produced", and then the enemy captured them in dozens. Where did they come from, since "are not produced"?
  45. steelmaker
    steelmaker 18 December 2021 09: 00
    +1
    "But one of the most important and completely unreported problems lies in a completely different plane - the technical one."
    Here's the result - 20 years of reign. Now explain to me why Americans shouldn't admire Putin?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 December 2021 18: 43
      -5
      For 20 years, you cannot do everything and cannot replace - during this time, competitors have gone far ahead and occupied sales markets with civilian equipment and electronics, everything was bad since the times of the USSR, which now we are surprised that we cannot - in terms of the market. If there was a free market from competitors, everything would have begun to be produced long ago.
  46. Basarev
    Basarev 18 December 2021 10: 02
    -3
    Answer: The purposeful Soviet anti-electronic policy is to blame. I remember now: cybernetics is a pseudoscience.
  47. MinskFox
    MinskFox 18 December 2021 13: 26
    +1
    Compare with the Americans, they also have foreign components, so what? If they stop selling, we will release an analogue, if someone thinks that the war will be lost because of some UAV, he will be very naive, this is not the biggest problem at all.
  48. Traktoris
    Traktoris 18 December 2021 17: 15
    +1
    Hello gentlemen, comrades!
    I read your discussion of this burning topic and decided to push you a little. (by amateur).
    I want to immediately clarify my perception of this issue, so that everyone who argues with me would understand my position.
    And so Electronics was missed in the USSR when they decided that we would steal and copy everything and we would be happy, but it didn't work out and the train left.
    Second, and from my stupid point of view, the main thing: UAVs, a weapon to pacify the "Papuans" by a highly organized power!
    Well, and 3 do Russia need weapons to fight the Papuans?
    I think that in these three questions lies the problem of Russian UAVs.

    I think that everyone is reading - those who write in this forum know why you can't light a cigarette in war at night.
    And I ask you all a question, aren’t all these UAVs turned on flashlights in the night?
    In a war with a serious power, all UAVs in the air can be disabled with just one ammunition, the so-called electromagnetic bomb. In addition, almost all known UAVs will not be able to withstand a WWII fighter! And taking into account the fact that UAVs are fighting over the enemy's territory (this is their salt), it is possible to restore WWII fighters by equipping them with "direction finders" of UAV communication frequencies for their systematic destruction.
    I did not touch on the topic of electromagnetic weapons, in which, as I think you all know, we are far from being in the last place. But considering the use of UAVs or their absence without the topic of electronic countermeasures is not serious.
    I think that it is in this vein that our generals think! And it is for us? Do not do it at all as it is not serious, but invest seriously ....? I look forward to your stormy discussions.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 December 2021 18: 50
      -4
      Shock and kamikaze UAVs will be effective in the massive use of thousands of pieces when suppressing enemy air defense, but how it will be exhausted and suppressed, cruise missiles and enemy air forces will go into action - they will exhaust the remaining fighter aircraft in a compartment.
      1. Traktoris
        Traktoris 18 December 2021 19: 04
        -1
        Both drums and kamikaze require aiming at the object of the attack, and therefore control!
        We jam the broadcast and watch the UAV pad!
  49. Klingon
    Klingon 18 December 2021 18: 46
    0
    If ME components of the civil sector are used in small UAVs, then what is it impossible to use as a flight controller of some kind of Chinese MATEK that is programmed in BetaFly? Why Buy American? And for drones like Aileron, Lancet and ZALA, MATEK is the most cheap, it costs some $ 20 and a half-hour life time will fully pay for it, and the same cheap GPS modules are on the same Bangood, cameras from RUNCAM, why to sculpt there Canon and Sony if there is enough low-level pictures ?? I'm certainly not a specialist, it's just logical reasoning
  50. garik77
    garik77 18 December 2021 20: 44
    0
    Several years ago, Zelenograd announced the start of production of microcircuits based on the 60nm process. Nothing outstanding by modern standards, but the question is, to what extent do drones need stones in the 15-5 nanometer process?