Russian attack drone - between myth and reality

307

To begin with, we'll talk about shock UAVs in general. It is not important yet whether we have them or not.

Recently, including through the efforts of our neighbors from Ukraine, interest in attack UAVs has been pretty much fueled. Interest in this new, but seemingly promising type of weapons has received additional acceleration. Many experts have paid attention and disassembled the topic of the UAV piece by piece, producing the most controversial results. Some UAVs had the status of "miracleweapons", Others have nothing more than auxiliary weapons. The truth, I think, is somewhere in between.




In the twenty years that have passed since the first combat launch of the Hellfire missile from the Predator UAV, the world is expectedly carried away by the creation of this type of weapon. The fact that Russia is a clear outsider of this race is, of course, sad. But we will return to this below.

Successful missile launches and the use of bombs were followed by the development of tactics for using UAVs on the battlefield.

Time has shown that drones there are strengths, for example, less visibility when approaching a target and a high response rate when receiving a combat mission. An UAV located at a short distance from the front line is able to get within striking distance of a suddenly appearing enemy much faster than aviation, and thereby influence the operational environment.

The UAV also has drawbacks. Since the aircraft simply cannot carry on itself the observation and aiming complex, like an aircraft, in order to deliver an accurate bombing strike, the UAV must significantly decrease. And at low altitudes, any device is a target for enemy anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems. In addition, UAVs cannot yet carry a large combat load.

But drones have found application on the battlefield.


In all armed conflicts in recent years, UAVs have been used with varying degrees of success. It depended very much on the devices themselves and on those who used them.

In 2020, Chinese-made strike UAVs were very actively used in Libya. Who heard about their successes? That's it. For the sake of justice, it should be admitted that the use of Turkish "Bayraktar" was not marked with loud results. True, there were fewer "Bayraktar" than the Chinese "Pterodactyls" ("Wing Loong"), but in principle, there is nothing to brag about for either Turkish or Chinese vehicles.

The conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan in Karabakh (I would like to say - another) was an attempt to organize the cult of "Bayraktar". Yes, we must pay tribute to the Azerbaijani side, the UAVs were used very competently and intelligently. Therefore, it turned out to inflict with their help sensitive damage to the enemy.

However, all these videos, massively uploaded on YouTube, are not at all evidence that Bayraktar is a perfect weapon capable of drastically changing the course of the conflict. Yes, the work of UAVs on vehicles, artillery, and infantry was generally very successful, but the heavy armored vehicles demonstrated a fair amount of resistance to Bayraktar strikes.

In addition, a hit on a tank filmed on camera is not yet evidence of the complete destruction of the vehicle. It's like a camera gun in World War II. A shot hitting an enemy plane is not yet a guarantee that the plane will be shot down.

In addition, having watched a decent number of videos, I want to note one more point: it is far from always clear who was shooting at the target. The shot hit is the result of an UAV attack or the result of another means of destruction, and the UAV just successfully filmed the hit?


However, the UAV as a "roof-boy" was quite successful and was recognized as a real new anti-tank weapon capable of operating on the battlefield and, perhaps, even very successfully. Of course, we cannot talk about the effectiveness of a UAV, like that of an attack helicopter, but it should be admitted that a drone is much cheaper.

Bayraktar costs about $ 10 million. Apache - 52 million. The T-90AM tank "weighs" $ 4,5 million. To recoup the loss of one striking agent, "Bayraktar" must destroy two tank... "Apache", respectively - more than a dozen. Which is more likely?

The UAV seems to look more preferable, but the use of the same Bayraktars during the last Karabakh conflict near Karaköllu showed that not everything is so happy. Thoughtful analysis of the data showed that 7 of the 6 attacked tanks received hits, but only one tank was definitely destroyed.

However, a hit that did not even destroy the tank could put it out of action, or disable the crew, which, in principle, is no worse. What will happen after the battle / raid ends is already secondary. The tank will be repaired or a new crew will be delivered - it makes no difference if the strike is delivered immediately before the battle, then the tank will not go into it in any case and will significantly weaken its side.

In any case, the roof-boy is a dangerous weapon if used correctly.


And here one more nuance arises, which I would like to pay attention to. Since an attack UAV is much smaller in size than an aircraft or a helicopter, it is rather difficult to detect it optically and visually. The simplest example: an ordinary drone with a camera, which are sold in stores today, you stop seeing from 50 meters, and from 100 you can no longer hear. Finding a large apparatus like the Bayraktar in the midst of the noise of a battle or a column on the march is no less difficult.

Accordingly, all means of confrontation such as large-caliber machine guns of tanks, small-caliber cannons of BMP / armored personnel carriers and installations of the type ZU-23-2 become completely useless. A “hand-operated” weapon will not pose a threat to a relatively small and high-speed target.

But the value of BMPTs, armed with universal rapid-fire cannons and detection systems, and divisional air defense ("Shilka", "Tunguska", "Wasp"), capable of hitting targets such as UAVs, immediately increases.

There is one more moment in which the UAV has no equal. This is intelligence. Since it is not easy to find the device, it can (as the Azerbaijanis have perfectly shown) fly at a distance of 10-30 km, that is, outside the zone of operation of the divisional air defense and broadcast a complete picture of what is happening on the ground. And the UAVs of the Azerbaijani army observed objects located at a greater distance (up to 60 km) from a completely safe distance, but very effectively.

Yes, from such a distance, the drone cannot independently attack the target or illuminate it with a laser. But it is quite possible to observe a significant amount of the area occupied by the enemy. Accordingly, to observe the work of the enemy's artillery and MLRS, give their coordinates for counter-battery combat, adjust the work of their own artillery, and so on. It is possible that the UAV can approach and attack on its own.

In general, the unmanned strike apparatus has taken a certain place in the niche of weapons. It is still elite, since only six countries in the world produce full-fledged UAVs. But there is no doubt that these weapons have a future.

Moreover, today it is necessary to develop countermeasures and protection for some potential UAV targets. For example, for tanks. We have already spoken on this topic, and the KAZ will be the best protection for the tank, which will protect the vehicle not only in the front-to-side projection, but also from above. Yes, it is very expensive. But a tank is more expensive, especially when it solves its tasks on the battlefield, and does not stand waiting for repairs as a result of the damage received.

And what about Russia?

Everything in Russia is far from ideal. If you look without rose-colored glasses, then there is something to object to opinions such as this: From "Orion" to "Okhotnik": the most powerful drone UAVs in Russia

If you take this review, then (quote):
“The success of the Russian Federation in the development of attack unmanned aerial vehicles has become a fait accompli. If earlier such machines were only in the plans, now it is clear that the same Orion may well be used in battle. "

The key word is "may." If certain conditions are met. In general, this review is nothing more than an examination of hypothetical prototypes, of which, perhaps, only Orion is more or less similar to an apparatus that is ready for mass production.


Photo: press service of JSC "Kronshtadt"

Moreover, Orion is offered for export. But there is one reason why the sale in the near future of Orions and other devices, both to the Russian army and to foreign customers, is not yet possible due to the trivial lack of weapons for the UAV.

"Can" be used in combat does not mean that it will be used. There are many nuances in this word.

The question will arise: well, of course, there is still footage of how "Orion" launched missiles at targets and so on. What's wrong? How then did "Orion" smuggle warehouses with weapons of terrorists in Syria and everything else?

I don’t know, to be honest.

Here is one of these "cartoons".


And, by the way, it is honestly said: “we have SUCH missiles ... But we will not show them to you”.

In fact, there is simply nothing to show. Shown at exhibitions. Layouts, layouts and layouts again.

Russian attack drone - between myth and reality

Something incomprehensible is going on about a certain "X-50 rocket". Either it is a missile specifically for UAVs of the appropriate size, or it is a cruise missile for strategic bombers, weighing more than one and a half tons. In general, the client is completely confused in the testimony.
Rocket X-50

About various bombs in the media there is a rewriting of one topic, what they are. No evidence suggests that these bombs, especially guided bombs, exist only on paper.

Since it was urgently needed to demonstrate the next "successes" of the Russian military-industrial complex in mastering the production of the latest weapons systems and thereby once again frighten the whole world, everything went on as usual. That is, they created a "beautiful picture" and showed it. In fact, it is necessary to look for sane filming of launches from the Orions. Basically, only "cartoons" from state TV channels.

So the container with the Kornet ATGM suspended under the Orion is probably the best we could do in such a situation.


Photo: press service of JSC "Kronshtadt"

The solution is not the most adequate in terms of aerodynamics, but at least the Kornet is not the worst ATGM. But there are nuances.

The second way is to adapt helicopter ATGM “Vikhr-M” for use on UAVs, which the company-developer OJSC “Kronshtadt” showed at the air show in Dubai this year. Naturally, also in layouts.


Photo: Rostec

The problem is that Orion cannot carry more than two Whirlwinds. And this, excuse me, is the level of the 1994 "Predator". Looks ridiculous in 2021. In addition, the "Whirlwind" is focused on a helicopter, from which the missile will be removed by a maximum of 10 km. Plus, the target for "Whirlwinds" must be illuminated with a laser, along the beam of which, in fact, the rocket is moving.

Do you understand what this is about? The UAV armament operator will simply not be able to control the missile directly, at such a distance, when the drone is at a considerable distance from the operator. Nothing supernatural, but keeping the target in the laser beam located on the UAV is not an easy task. Plus, all modern tanks like our T-90, Chinese Type 99, Israeli Merkava are equipped with laser detection and countering systems. And "Type 99" can blind anyone with its lasers in response.

In general, laser guidance is the last day today. More than enough protection and countermeasures.

In addition, the laser perfectly unmasks the device itself.

So, despite the fact that "Vikhr-M" is a very effective weapon, albeit quite expensive, it was created for very specific tactics of attack anti-tank helicopters and the use on UAVs may simply not work out precisely because of the specifics.

"Kornet", more precisely, its version "Kornet-P" (9P163M-1), can be placed on the UAV, but it has the same "weakness" - the rocket must go to the target in a spiral, in the laser beam. Yes, the aiming is automatic, but someone somehow still has to keep the target in the beam.

As many understanding people say, the best weapons for UAVs are third-generation ATGMs, which work on the "fire-forget" principle. With these anti-tank missile systems, the operator does not have to keep the target constantly in sight, the rocket is guided by itself. Plus, target illumination with a laser can be carried out from the side, not from the aircraft. And anti-tank missiles of this generation have their own homing heads, infrared, passive and active radar. Yes, this ATGM is somewhat less resistant to interference than representatives of previous generations and much more expensive, but nevertheless, their use is much simpler.

We know these complexes. American Javelin, Israeli Spike and LAHAT, German PARS 3 LR, Indian Nag, Chinese Hongjian-12.


There is no talk of Russian representatives of this generation yet. "Javelin" will soon celebrate its 25th anniversary, there is no Russian analogue, and when it will be is not entirely clear.

But the two anti-tank missiles on the UAV, which the operators will direct along the laser beam, are the level of the forerunner, that is, the Predator.

What could be an interesting and useful concept for using a UAV in an anti-tank strike version?

Yes, in that it is a missile platform with 8-10 missiles, which can "hang" for hours almost imperceptibly near the front edge or be based on an impromptu "jump" airfield in anticipation of the enemy. But in any case, this is a flying weapon capable of controlling a certain area and hitting enemy armored vehicles.

And in general, what is a UAV? This is a flying platform, practically invulnerable to small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery and MANPADS, but capable of hitting armored vehicles no worse than an attack helicopter. At the same time, the cost of an hour of UAV flight should be at the level of a bomber of the Second World War, that is, minimal.

And if the combat load is at least equal to the planes of the Second World War ... However, the most common bomber of the Red Army Air Force, the Pe-2, took only 600 kg of bombs in a normal flight. So the time is not far off when the UAVs will be overtaken and overtaken.

Bombs, which we also practically do not have, are a very peculiar weapon. In development (models were shown at exhibitions) bombs weighing 20 and 50 kg. Time will tell to what extent they will be manageable or adjustable.

However, even today the use of bombs has shown the weaknesses of the UAV. The UAV will not be able to take heavy bombs (over 250 kg) (Orion at least), and the use of light bombs weighing up to 50 kg is associated with the problem of accurate bombing. There will be no navigator on board the drone who can accurately calculate the drop point. Accordingly, it will be necessary to use the tactics of dropping bombs from low altitudes for light ammunition.

Sorry, but the Orlan is not a Su-25 or an Il-2. There is no armor, and work from a low altitude, where the device will become noticeable and vulnerable to the most archaic weapons such as small arms, negates all tactics of use.

Well, if the enemy has a more or less modern air defense system, then the threat from the attack UAVs will simply be leveled out due to the destruction of the vehicles.

It turns out that such UAVs, focused on the tactics of using almost a century ago, and even armed according to the standards of the Second World War for outdated aircraft (Po-2 level and Heinkel He.59), will be effective only against an enemy that does not have the ability to provide proper resistance.

That is, the level of suppression of uprisings and the fight against terrorists.
Here it is worth asking a very unpleasant question: against which enemy (and for whom for export) such UAVs are being created in Russia?

Indeed, in battles with a normal regular army, such "shock" UAVs will be completely useless. Orion, armed with FAB-50, will regularly shoot down, UAVs with the same Whirlwinds and Cornets will create an imitation of seething activity, spending most of the flight time on flights replenishing ammunition from two missiles.

How effective such UAVs will be is a question.

And the second question: the fact that our Russian developments in UAVs are significantly inferior to the world ones is an unpleasant, but a fact. You can talk as much as you like about the fact that Russian drones "at the level", but in fact such UAVs that are only suitable against terrorists or lightly armed insurgents - this is the real level of the Russian military-industrial complex.

In practice, what is happening today in the development and use of UAVs in the Russian army speaks first of all that if the command and understand the value of attack UAVs and the tactics of using these devices on the battlefield, then the capabilities of the Russian military-industrial complex negate all these understanding.

For the full use of UAVs on the battlefield, tomorrow it is necessary to have high-precision weapons, which Russia does not have today. It is modern weapons that are fighting, and not propaganda videos and articles that tell about the nonexistent achievements of the hypothetical "Bayraktar killers".

The present day testifies to the fact that the Bayraktars are the real weapons, and the Orions are nothing more than the "larva" of a real strike UAV. Yes, Russian vehicles MAY become full-fledged strike UAVs. But for this they need to be given such an opportunity.

And it is worth remembering that manufacturers of similar equipment abroad simply do not want to stop at the achieved milestones.
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307 comments
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  1. +3
    22 December 2021 06: 33
    It's a strange thing ... According to the logic of this article, in 1942 the Soviet Headquarters should have raised the panic that there was nothing like the Tiger in the USSR. And throw all the forces into creating something like that. Or, having seen the Ju-87 before the war, also start making such a "bast shoe". But instead of that, the Isa and Il-2 appeared. In the case of UAVs, it is logical not to develop their creation on such a scale, but to focus on countermeasures. Powerful electronic warfare will stun and blind all UAVs.

    The use of attack UAVs is advisable against weakly armed gangs and civilians. Against a high-tech adversary, how effective they will be is a big question.

    And blindly following other people's theories is not always correct.
    1. +16
      22 December 2021 06: 46
      The fact is that powerful electronic warfare suppresses both strangers and friends. Therefore, with the sudden appearance of UAVs, the use of electronic warfare systems may be impossible, due to the likelihood of suppressing our own and disrupting the fulfillment of tasks by our troops.
      1. -9
        22 December 2021 06: 48
        So I am about the same. To crush other people's UAVs, and by ourselves ... There are rocket and cannon artillery, Iskander, Su-25 and Su-34 smile
        1. +6
          22 December 2021 11: 40
          Only when electronic suppression is carried out, you yourself will be able to control, and therefore apply and correct either aviation or artillery.
        2. +3
          22 December 2021 23: 50
          Crush other people's UAVs

          Are the rocket and cannon artillery guided by pigeon mail?
          Iskander, Su-25 and Su-34

          Iskanders are few (about 1000 throughout the country), dear ones. Produced at a slower pace than sausages. Let me remind you that in the non-nuclear version they deliver one 500kg bomb to the target. Airplane - minimum 4.
          Su-25 and Su-34 cannot "hang" over the battlefield. And they are much more vulnerable to air defense than drones.
      2. -1
        25 December 2021 17: 47
        absolutely disagree, the REB overwhelming absolutely everything within a radius of at least 10 km is not yet, and probably cannot be, well, maybe except for a nuclear bomb with high-altitude detonation. That is why some have "pulled ahead", and some are catching up. Although the reality is, few will say. But here is the Chinese Type-99, this is the right decision, and all because the Chinese did not sign any conventions, and now they have grown to technological capabilities.
        1. 0
          31 January 2022 12: 00
          Firstly, electronic warfare can crush the frequency band on which drone control operates, and not the entire spectrum, which is being done.
          The second is that the direction is taken in the combat zone, first of all, the source of the signal or the place where this signal comes from. These stations already exist in the troops, the first ones have recently arrived in the Central Military District. As soon as this location is determined, then the coordinates are transferred to the means of destruction - missiles, artillery, aviation. And this will be carried out in the first place to secure the advancing troops. In addition, before the offensive, they will try to destroy command and control posts and destroy the main communications to make it difficult to transport ammunition and the ability to maneuver or move troops. So many will not be up to drones even if they are available. Combat operations are military operations and the picture, if the forces are approximately equal, is far from the reasoning on the forum due to the large number of unknown circumstances. I understand the Americans when they control drones from their territory. But recently, over the Black Sea, one of these serious drones was suppressed by control channels, and from the middle, in emergency return mode, it stopped the mission and turned to a take-off airfield somewhere in Italy. Now imagine the Americans, who in their control center know that at any moment something will fly to them from far away.
          So it's one thing when you control a drone in a calm environment and another when at any moment you can be destroyed by an enemy weapon.
          1. 0
            31 January 2022 12: 26
            Time may have expired, but why delete the entire previously written comment, Not convenient?
    2. +15
      22 December 2021 11: 10
      Quote: avia12005
      According to the logic of this article, in 1942 the Soviet Headquarters was supposed to raise panic that there was nothing like the Tiger in the USSR. And throw all the forces into creating something like that.

      There was panic about "Tiger", but in a different area - "how to incite him." Especially after the shooting of the captured "Tiger".
      And there was nothing to panic about the analogs of the Tiger - work on the KV-13 had already by December 1942 led to the transformation of the former medium tank into a heavy, future IS. The only problem was with the gun.
      Quote: avia12005
      Or, having seen the Ju-87 before the war, also start making such a "bast shoe".

      Everything was even cooler - the USSR needed a dive bomber so urgently that it was decided not to design it from scratch, but to convert serial or production-ready vehicles into it. As a result, one dive bomber came from a former serial high-speed bomber, and the second from a promising heavy fighter.
      It got to the point that the work from a dive, even on the DB-3, was practiced.
      Quote: avia12005
      But instead of that, the "Isa" and the Il-2 appeared.

      The Il-2 is a completely different topic that has been dragging on since the mid-30s - a battlefield aircraft designed to operate against large masses of infantry armed with a rifle gun as air defense. And, traditionally, the best aircraft of this concept was created when the concept became obsolete.
    3. 0
      22 December 2021 14: 06
      avia12005. So at that time there was a man, and his assistants who ruled the country. You can’t afford to scam the poor. In addition, the ruler knew the capabilities of the country not only from reports, but from the fact that specialists from different places came and came and said that they had found, what they could do now and do in the future. The fact that there is no pilot in the drone does not mean that there cannot be a machine gunner. The built maxim can do such a thing that the armies will leave their positions in panic. One barrel can be watered with bullets, the second barrel with anti-tank bullets, and the third can be fired with pots of shit. Who can stand that. The pots are our strength. Galoshes at the level of the USSR are not advanced production, but condoms with holes are the best in the world.
    4. +1
      22 December 2021 23: 46
      Or, having seen the Ju-87 before the war, also start making such a "bast shoe". But instead ... IL-2

      Was the Il-2 such an excellent aircraft?
      He flew poorly, took a small combat load, was reliably protected only from a rifle caliber (and partly from 12,7).
      Of the 30 thousand produced during the entire war, 10 thousand were shot down, and another 10 thousand were lost for non-combat reasons.
      He bombed very crookedly, he could not drop bombs from a dive - he fell through strongly when they left him. The guns were effective against light tanks, armored personnel carriers, the missile accuracy left much to be desired (about 2% of hits on single targets).
      Against his background, "Stuka" is much more productive.
      Another thing is that he was ALREADY ready to start the war, and in the course of it they did not create something new in this direction.
    5. -1
      23 December 2021 01: 55
      Quote: avia12005
      Powerful electronic warfare will stun and blind all UAVs.


      It is said, in Russian in white:
      ... manufacturers of similar equipment abroad simply do not want to stop at the achieved milestones.


      How will electronic warfare help against autonomous UAV flying along lidar and INS, and performing the task in optical range? And such are on the doorstep, the technology, in principle, already exists.
      1. 0
        23 December 2021 14: 31
        Powerful directional electromagnetic pulse completely burns out electronic filling
        1. +1
          23 December 2021 14: 36
          Quote: bodzu
          Powerful directional electromagnetic pulse completely burns out electronic filling

          Knowledge should be more than categorical aplomb. wink
          Military equipment has been protected from EMP since the first atomic bombs appeared.
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Клетка_Фарадея
          1. 0
            25 December 2021 13: 43
            What is your knowledge expressed? Even shielding power circuits does not guarantee protection from EMC. And how reliably power supplies on warships and even in Japan are made in the west, I know not by hearsay, but from experience.
            1. 0
              25 December 2021 17: 10
              Quote: bodzu
              How is your knowledge expressed?

              Knowledge is not "mine", in the age of the Internet, it is publicly available.

              Quote: bodzu
              Even shielded power circuits do not guarantee EMC protection

              And from SMS? wassat
              Could you name the source of this statement? Can you give a formula? A scientific thesis at least?

              Quote: bodzu
              And how reliably power sources are made in the west on warships and even in Japan, I know not by hearsay, but from experience.

              And in what Western production of military "power supplies" for warships did you work? At what year? What position?
          2. 0
            25 December 2021 17: 52
            How does she still see anything? If you're right, of course. In Faraday's cage, now only MRIs are really living, well, physicists and engineers, but they do not need a radar, let alone a connection in those few seconds that they work for nothing.

            But protection, nevertheless, exists, albeit not 100%, and during protection, the apparatus is blind and deaf
        2. 0
          25 December 2021 17: 53
          It's true. Somehow, during the air defense exercises, in conditions close to the combat ones, the electronic warfare officers set up interference and crushed all the air defense control channels. So they sent the signal of the S-300 guidance station (there were those times) to the REB source and burned out all the additional equipment for them. The scandal turned out to be huge.
          Not a bike.
          1. 0
            26 December 2021 07: 19
            And here is the answer to my assertions. To "specialists" from the Internet.
    6. 0
      23 December 2021 05: 08
      There is an example for your comment-RPG was created quite late, only the Shaitan pipe is still in service, and those early ones are no longer there
    7. 0
      31 December 2021 11: 22
      ISs and Eli were the answer to the appearance of Tigers and bastards, and not the best. The Il-2 could not bomb with precision precision, like Lapotnik, and the IS-1 was inferior in its characteristics to the Tiger ...
      UAVs need protection and long-range detection, and this requires science, which must be nurtured and cherished ..... Does the state have money for this? It is unlikely that profits are hidden in offshore areas - the result of the EBN's rule ... Is it not him who sculpt monuments and open centers?
  2. +7
    22 December 2021 06: 35
    In Syria and the LDNR, the work of drones in conjunction with artillery was clearly visible ... it was a pity the guys from the censorship covered this movie.
    Now we use rumors and such articles.
    1. +18
      22 December 2021 09: 02
      Yeah...
      The movie that the President of the Russian Federation showed Oliver Stone will be remembered by everyone for a very long time.
      This is not forgotten.
      1. -12
        22 December 2021 10: 15
        he will even be remembered in 20 years) after all, how is it that, on New Year's Eve, the industry reported that armament tests for UAVs were carried out in Russia, so the topvar's experts could not stand aside and tell that these were all cartoons and that there was nothing and it will not be ... it will be funny when the next year the tests of KABs and the same x-50 are carried out)
    2. 0
      26 December 2021 03: 47
      Impact UAV is a dead-end concept.
      The firepower of the UAV is extremely low, acceptable for "hunting for individual copies of terrorists."
      Not suitable for serious armed conflicts with electronic warfare + air defense.
      Extremely low efficiency, small ammunition load, conflict with the submarine behind the airfield, ...
      No satellite channels. Iridium?
      The emergency rate is an order of magnitude higher than the PLA.
      Impact UAV = heavy expensive UAV, flight hour costs often exceed PLA rates. RQ-4B damages $ 1M per day!

      ☆ A light high-altitude tethered aerodynamic device of continuous flight with a reliable closed fiber-optic reconnaissance and target designation channel for laser guidance of heavy MLRS projectiles is rational.
  3. +19
    22 December 2021 06: 55
    Novel! How much can you do? Every time, as soon as we have time to "rejoice" and "take pride" in the successes of our native military-industrial complex, you bring us down to earth. Bitter grief simply squeezes out tears with your words about layouts, models, twenty-year lag ... Admit it, you just do not like ... this ... You simply do not have this ... I keep forgetting this word - conscience ... crying Your blatant truth is worse than a testicle sickle ...
    And it is worth remembering that manufacturers of similar equipment abroad simply do not want to stop at the achieved milestones.

    Here Abramovich, too, does not stop in his desires to amaze the world with personal planes, yachts and a submarine ... Or do you consider him “not ours”? We have 102 such people (according to Forbes).
    What I want to tell you:

    drinks
    1. -4
      22 December 2021 08: 05
      Roman loves to rinse the members of the forum in the washing machine of the information war ... everyone has their own shortcomings ... do not deprive him of this pleasure.
      1. +10
        22 December 2021 08: 49
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        do not deprive him of this pleasure.

        I don't want to deprive myself of the pleasure of reading Roman's articles. His experiences are close to me and I largely share his thoughts.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. -6
          22 December 2021 10: 22
          and a year later, when a couple of dozen Orions with shock weapons have already been delivered, Roman will tell that Orions are the last century and do not count at all)
          1. -1
            23 December 2021 11: 47
            Have you already bought for them from adversaries two dozen engines and avionics kits with OLS?
            1. +1
              23 December 2021 12: 56
              hmm ... how many stupid people write comments here ... I wonder if laziness or lack of intelligence prevents you from using the search? or at least immediately read about our new engines?
              1. -1
                24 December 2021 20: 10
                Blessed is he who believes, warmth in the world! (with)
    2. +9
      22 December 2021 08: 45
      Quote: ROSS 42
      With us, Abramovich also does not stop in his desires to amaze the world with personal planes, yachts and a submarine.

      Yes, the most expensive yacht in the world, and the impoverished population.
      Other oligarchs are also not lagging behind, it is enough to score in the search for the Top 10 most expensive yachts, and the Top 5 most expensive sailing yachts.
      1. +1
        22 December 2021 18: 25
        So Abramovich is now a citizen of Israel and even Portugal! And recently he bought himself the most expensive Boing 787-8 Dreamliner in Russia for $ 359 million.
        1. 0
          23 December 2021 21: 37
          This completely changes the matter! If he is a three times citizen, then he needs three times more! laughing
    3. -20
      22 December 2021 09: 07
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Your blatant truth is worse than a testicle sickle ...
      True, this is good. Here's the truth:
      1. +19
        22 December 2021 09: 26
        Quote: Dart2027
        True, this is good. Here's the truth:

        Do you want the truth? I have it:
        GDP - gross domestic product is market value of all goods and services produced in the country for end use, that is, intended for consumption and not for the production of other goods or services.
        If in 1999 a kilogram of potatoes cost 4 rubles, and today - 50, if in 1999 kW / h cost 10-30 kopecks, and today 4-8 rubles, this does not mean that we began to bathe in free electricity ... Yours Awareness causes a grin:
        1. -21
          22 December 2021 09: 49
          Quote: ROSS 42
          If in 1999 a kilogram of potatoes cost 4 rubles, and
          the average salary was 1522 rubles, and even that was not always paid.
          Quote: ROSS 42
          GDP - gross domestic product is
          That is, there are no questions about the numbers?
          Quote: ROSS 42
          oh this does not mean that we began to swim in free electricity
          Do you need a freebie? Well, excuse me, this is not to the president, but to the "pike command."
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Your awareness makes me laugh:

          Fragment of the film "How Japan Lives - Facts about the Land of the Rising Sun"

          In the second minute, the author of the film talks about how the Japanese plow at work - something I don’t remember. Does Putin also prohibit?
          1. +24
            22 December 2021 10: 06
            Quote: Dart2027
            In the second minute, the author of the film talks about how the Japanese plow at work - something I don’t remember.

            The Japanese do not have the richest in resources and vast territory of the country. So they have to work hard like Papa Carlo.
            Something I doubt that Sechin or Miller plow for their salary for seven ...
            1. -15
              22 December 2021 10: 40
              Quote: Hyperion
              The Japanese do not have the richest in resources

              And all these resources lie so reach out and take. Why work mining, building logistics, etc.
              Quote: Hyperion
              Something I doubt that Sechin or Miller plow for their salary for seven ...

              Old Soviet propaganda that all millionaires do not work. If they don't plow, they will quickly be left without everything - competition, you know.
              1. +9
                22 December 2021 16: 19
                Quote: Dart2027
                And all these resources lie so reach out and take. Why work mining, building logistics, etc.

                Why go from one extreme to another? Nobody says that you have to lie on the stove while the minerals dig themselves out. But it is also not worthwhile to look forward to death with modern technologies. The Japanese have no choice. Pasha or die.
                Quote: Dart2027
                If they don't plow, they will quickly be left without everything - competition, you know.

                Someone works, and someone earns.
                At the Listvyazhnaya mine, where miners have recently died, salary - 50 thousand rubles. Few people work as hard as miners, not to mention the high risks and hazards.
                And Sechin from 15 to 20 million rubles. per month. That is, Sechin officially receives 350 miners. At the same time, he works in bright offices, drives expensive cars and does not put his life at risk.
                1. -11
                  22 December 2021 17: 02
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  But it is also not worthwhile to look forward to death with modern technologies. The Japanese have no choice. Pasha or die.
                  Well, then the result will be less than theirs.
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  Someone works, and someone earns.

                  And there is no other way. There will always be a need for those who do not come close to mines or something else. Simply because otherwise the state will stupidly collapse. But this does not mean that they do not plow, they just have different tasks and other tools.
                  1. +9
                    22 December 2021 19: 32
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Well, then the result will be less than theirs.

                    Work in good faith without overworking and everything will be fine. If without corruption and honestly. And natural reserves of PI compensate for what the Japanese need to overcome.
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    But this does not mean that they do not plow, they just have different tasks and other tools.

                    But this does not mean that their salary should be orders of magnitude greater.
                    1. +1
                      24 December 2021 07: 04
                      Quote: Hyperion
                      If without corruption and honestly.

                      If. But the nature of man is such that it will always be different - there will always be corruption and dishonesty and laziness, etc.
                      Quote: Hyperion
                      that their salary should be orders of magnitude greater

                      Likewise. Even in the USSR, representatives of the highest echelons of power lived orders of magnitude better than others. That is life.
            2. -20
              22 December 2021 11: 35
              Quote: Hyperion
              Something I doubt that Sechin or Miller plow for their salary for seven ...

              Perhaps you shouldn't judge other people by yourself.
              1. +11
                22 December 2021 16: 12
                Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                Perhaps you shouldn't judge other people by yourself.

                Maybe. Don't judge.
                1. -7
                  23 December 2021 06: 30
                  Did I talk about the work capacity of Sechin and Miller?
                  Why are you not in the place of one of them? Can't you handle it? Or your credo is just to give out brilliant ideas from the category of "take away and divide everything" to the mountain, but how exactly can you do this even if others have a headache?
                  1. +2
                    23 December 2021 14: 24
                    Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                    Why are you not in the place of one of them?

                    If I had contacted Putin at one time, then who knows ... I mean how these people got their posts, and not "I just envy them and want to be in their place."
                    Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                    Or your credo is just to give out brilliant ideas from the category of "take away and divide everything"

                    Not "take away and divide", but "from each according to his ability and to each according to his work."
                    1. -2
                      23 December 2021 16: 50
                      Quote: Hyperion
                      Not "take away and divide", but "from each according to his ability and to each according to his work."

                      Ideally, it should be so, but in practice it is the same utopia as, I don’t know, "the economy should be economical."
                      Everyone knows that drinking and overeating a lot is harmful, but in reality everywhere is full of drunks and fat people.
                      1. +3
                        23 December 2021 17: 09
                        Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                        Ideally, this is how it should be

                        You need to at least try to move towards the ideal, otherwise the meaning of life is reduced to "was born, suffered and died."
                        Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                        but in reality everywhere is full of drunks and fat people.

                        Who is talking about what, and you are all about healthy lifestyle. Don't worry, the government is working on this problem. Although you can eat ryahu with macaroons, yes ...
                      2. -3
                        23 December 2021 17: 12
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        You need to at least try to move towards the ideal, otherwise the meaning of life is reduced to "was born, suffered and died."

                        Undoubtedly. And this, in my opinion, is the first duty of every person. Every new day be the best version of yourself from yesterday.
                        If even a simple majority of people understood this, the USSR, in the sense of a socially oriented state, would already be on the entire planet.
                        Who is talking about what, and you are all about healthy lifestyle.

                        It's not just a healthy lifestyle. The brain needs to be trained in the same way as the body.
                        Well, in general, you understand me. Hope.
                      3. +3
                        23 December 2021 17: 44
                        Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                        If only the simple majority of people understood this

                        Most can and understand. But understanding and acting are somewhat different things. Self-discipline is a thankless thing in terms of rewarding the body for effort.
                        Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                        Well, in general, you understand me. Hope.

                        Understood, accepted.
                      4. +1
                        23 December 2021 17: 52
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Understood, accepted.

                        Thank you for the dialogue, dear colleague.
                        Best wishes to you!
                      5. +2
                        23 December 2021 17: 59
                        Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                        Best wishes to you!

                        Same to you! hi
            3. 0
              25 December 2021 18: 00
              others are plowing for them, I have seen such - several dozen bearded men at the airport of Nizhnevartovsk or Salekhard, awaiting the departure of small aircraft, on watch.
              I doubt that the head of Toyota or Nissan (by the way, even more so :-), what was his name there? ) slides in exactly the same way, at least like drillers.
              1. 0
                25 December 2021 19: 31
                Quote: Old Man
                I doubt that the head of Toyota or Nissan (by the way, even more so :-), what was his name there? ) slides in exactly the same way, at least like drillers.

                The president of Toyota Motor Akio Toyoda receives $ 1.68 million a year. The head of Nissan - 9,58 million. Sechin - 2.8 million. Miller - 9.7 million.
                But at least those are engaged in finished products, while ours stuck to the bowels and drive raw materials.
          2. +21
            22 December 2021 11: 49
            Quote: Dart2027
            the average salary was 1522 rubles, and even that was not always paid.

            I don’t want to have a conversation with the regime’s lovers. It is useless to explain to you and others like you how the GDP differs from the elementary quantitative growth of production.
            Whether at the second or at some other minute and what exactly is told in the film, I know. In the cut-out fragment, the author shows that in a developed industrial country, in which there are world-renowned firms, only 1945 billionaires have been raised since 35 !!! And for twenty years of Putin's rule - 102, where in any industry you can find only breakthroughs, layouts, plans, sketches, accidents, fires, theft !!!
            ABSOLUTELY IN ANY INDUSTRY !!!
            That's all!
            This is the true success of the government: 102 dollar billionaires, about 190 dollar millionaires, and 000 million citizens living below the poverty line.
            And then there are mine explosions and fires everywhere. The last one is in Tomsk shopping center "Lenta". Can you give an example of such fires in the Soviet Union? Not catastrophes, but fires due to carelessness, violation of safety and fire safety?
            Then do not go where Makar did not drive calves. You are an empty, worthless troll, for whom today's regime is like a station for a thimbler ...
            1. -12
              22 December 2021 12: 08
              Quote: ROSS 42
              I don’t want to have a conversation with the regime’s lovers.
              Well, lick your masters from Fashington.
              Quote: ROSS 42
              To you and those like you
              any success of Russia is like a knife in the heart. I know.
              Quote: ROSS 42
              ABSOLUTELY IN ANY INDUSTRY !!!
              And that Japan does not have all this? Seriously? And by the way, breakthroughs are achievements.
              Quote: ROSS 42
              Can you give an example of such fires in the Soviet Union?
              In a country where any wrong event was hidden from the people and where only ideologically correct news poured from the screens?
              On June 4, 1989, near Ufa, two oncoming passenger trains "Adler-Novosibirsk" and "Novosibirsk-Adler" caught fire due to the accumulation of gas from the leaking gas pipeline "Western Siberia - Ural - Volga region", located 900 meters from the railway.


              On February 25, 1977, a strong fire broke out in the building of the Moscow hotel "Russia". The area of ​​the fire was about three thousand meters, the fire engulfed the upper floors of the northern building, cutting off at least 250 visitors of the VIP-hall on the 17th and the restaurant on the 22nd floors from the exit. The evacuation of people was complicated by the insufficient length of the sliding stairs, which did not reach higher than the seventh or eighth floors.


              On May 25, 1968 in Kirov, at the Trudovye Rezervy stadium, a large explosion occurred and a strong fire began. Pyrotechnics, prepared for the theatrical holiday show, exploded under the stands. As a result of the tragedy, 39 people died, 111 people were injured and were hospitalized.

              This is so offhand and in one (!) Minute.
            2. +1
              22 December 2021 21: 37
              Sorry. I only give an opinion. I ask you not to write me down as opponents of the USSR, although it probably doesn't matter. But how you can be an opponent of a part of your own history, I do not understand. There were a lot of good things in the USSR, but was it perfect so the answer itself begs. Therefore, to your question:
              And then there are mine explosions and fires everywhere. The last one is in Tomsk shopping center "Lenta". Can you give an example of such fires in the Soviet Union? Not catastrophes, but fires due to carelessness, violation of safety and fire safety?

              Perhaps it came to mind about Chernobyl.
            3. +1
              23 December 2021 05: 16
              hotel "Moscow"
            4. 0
              25 December 2021 18: 05
              and why is a billion now? in prices, let not the 45th year, but at least 74-79 years. Suddenly, we find that of the current "102 billionaires" - 90% are rogue grabber, in this comparison. Perhaps, in addition to Lisin, he at least saved the plant from sudden death.
          3. 0
            24 December 2021 14: 53
            Quote: Dart2027
            In the second minute, the author of the film tells
            I was amazed at how easily the issue of resettling people from the 40-km zone from Fokushima was resolved. It's like the 10th minute. And in general, the video is interesting.
        2. +5
          22 December 2021 21: 57
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Do you want the truth? I have it:
          GDP - gross domestic product - is the market value of all goods and services produced in a country for final use, that is, intended for consumption, and not for the production of other goods or services.

          ========
          Guys! I didn't understand something: What was the article about? About the Orion UAV and the use of shock UAVs, or is it still about the VVP and VVP. ??? belay what
          And then - it turns out: they started "for-health", finished - "for-peace"! Exactly like Kartsev and Ilchenko:
          - And it went and went ... From the primitive communal system - to the slave-owning, from the slave-to the feudal ...
          - Stop - stop! What question do you have on the ticket?
          - The device of the vacuum tube .....
          - And what does the primitive communal system have to do with it?

      2. +7
        22 December 2021 09: 29
        The year 2013 was staged very well. Medvedev was president from 2008 to 2012, the economic success of that period is his merit. In 2014, all economic indicators began to fall.
        And all this is explained by one graph:
        1. -17
          22 December 2021 09: 37
          Quote: OgnennyiKotik
          Medvedev was president from 2008 to 2012, the economic success of that period is his merit.
          Yeah president ...
          Quote: OgnennyiKotik
          And all this is explained by one graph.

          Another whining about oil prices, but despite any price hikes, the country is not falling apart and is quietly increasing production.
      3. +9
        22 December 2021 09: 31
        Ha, it is very significant that in this photo Putin's "achievements" end in 2013, because since Putin, in his "fiery speech" about: galoshes, "admitted in 2012 that there is an economic crisis in the Russian Federation, the economy is falling, For the eighth year, the people are becoming impoverished, and are dying out even more, and Putin is NOT able to change anything of this, because all his "achievements" in the XNUMXs are only a consequence of high world prices for the export of natural resources.
        1. -14
          22 December 2021 09: 35
          Quote: tatra
          Ha, it is very significant that in this photo Putin's "achievements" end in 2013
          since it was made in the year 14, which is written about at the very beginning.
          1. +5
            23 December 2021 00: 40
            since it was made in the year 14, which is written about at the very beginning.

            Let's compare 2013 GDP and 2020 GDP.
            Russia's GDP in 2013 was $ 2,289 trillion
            Russia's GDP in 2020 became $ 1,483 trillion
            It turns out that Putin ruled the country in such a way for 7 years that the GDP fell by 35 percent. Show me another non-African country with such "achievements"
            1. -7
              23 December 2021 07: 19
              Quote: ramzay21
              It turns out that Putin ruled the country in such a way for 7 years that the GDP fell by 35 percent. Show me another non-African country with such "achievements"

              Another primitive lie.
              GDP began to fall after 2014, with its events in Ukraine, and then went up until 2019, when this canyon with a pandemic began, when it began to decline again.
              1. +7
                23 December 2021 09: 42
                Another primitive lie.
                GDP began to fall after 2014, with its events in Ukraine, and then went up until 2019, when this canyon with a pandemic began, when it began to decline again.

                Do you want to argue with numbers?
                What is the connection between the events in Ukraine and the fall in GDP in Russia by half in 2015?
                For everyone who understands economics, the answer is obvious. This is the collapse of oil and gas prices from $ 110 to $ 30 per barrel and Putin, of course, has nothing to do with this, as well as with the rise in prices from $ 11 in 1999 to $ 150 in 2007, with a fall to $ 30 in 2008 and an increase to $ 100 by 2010th. And the Russian GDP can easily return to the level of 2013 only if oil prices return to the level of 2013, and it makes no difference whether Putin or Svetlakov, for example, will be president.
                But for those who do not understand the economy, he is a miracle worker until 2013, and everything fell because Ukraine and sanctions, and a bunch of vague reasons.
                1. -6
                  23 December 2021 11: 12
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  What is the connection between the events in Ukraine and the fall in GDP in Russia by half in 2015?
                  For everyone who understands economics, the answer is obvious. This

                  the beginning of the economic war, part of which was the fall in oil prices, only Russia survived.
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  But for those who do not understand economics
                  That you are self-critical.
                  1. +1
                    24 December 2021 04: 36
                    the beginning of the economic war, part of which was the fall in oil prices, only Russia survived.

                    Do you even understand what an economic war is?
                    If in 2014 an economic war began against us, we would no longer have a country.
                    If the Americans and Europeans turned off the SWIFT system for us in 2014, they would arrest the accounts of all oligarchs and officials, as well as all state-owned companies, start subsidizing and lending to shale oil producers, banning the supply of aircraft and spare parts for them, banning the supply of equipment and spare parts for oil and gas industry, and that's it, the war is over.
                    1. -1
                      24 December 2021 06: 57
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      Do you even understand what an economic war is?
                      If in 2014 we started an economic war against us
                      many of the goods that are now being purchased would be their own.
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      If Americans and Europeans turned off the SWIFT system for us in 2014, they would arrest the accounts of all oligarchs and officials
                      then we would have arrested the property of Americans and Europeans on the territory of Russia.
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      would start subsidizing and lending to shale oil producers
                      Which turned out to be a soap bubble.
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      banned the supply of aircraft and spare parts for them, banned the supply of equipment and spare parts for the oil and gas industry, and
                      thereby stimulating the development of our industry and strengthening ties with China.
                      1. +1
                        24 December 2021 09: 26
                        many of the goods that are now being purchased would be their own.

                        You probably do not know that the Russian Federation only imported food products in 2014 for $ 20 billion. Although everything is simple with you, he issued a decree and bam millions of ready-made cows appeared, published another and bam thousands of tons of tomatoes grew wassat
                        then we would have arrested the property of Americans and Europeans on the territory of Russia.

                        Which Americans? A thousand rubles out of the mind Mickey Rourke, which he forgot in our bank?
                        Which turned out to be a soap bubble.

                        They began to produce so much oil that they dropped world oil prices from $ 110 to $ 25. Although on your that globe, Putin decides everything laughing
                        thereby stimulating the development of our industry and strengthening ties with China.

                        Just one small problem, China does not have many aircraft manufacturing technologies like we do now, and for this reason neither we nor the Chinese can supply their aircraft to, for example, Iran or Cuba, against which there are really tough restrictions.
                        The same applies to oil production, if the Americans stop supplying spare parts for their equipment, which today produces most of our oil, then exactly the same thing will happen as with our platform in the Kara Sea, which they happily talked about in 2014, forgetting to tell the truth that everything equipment and technologies there are American and we do not have such technologies of our own.
                        The Chinese also do not have horizontal drilling technologies, as well as equipment, if anything.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
      4. +17
        22 December 2021 09: 51
        Quote: Dart2027
        True, this is good. Here's the truth:

        Here's an even truer truth: Pension in 2013 - 10000 rubles. ($ 312) in 2021 - 9311 p. (130 $)
        Twice smaller. And about how I am now real inflation - need to speak at a different time, in a different place, face to face.
        1. -22
          22 December 2021 09: 56
          Quote: Hyperion
          Pension in 2013 - 10000 rubles. ($ 312) in 2021 - 9311 p. (130 $)
          Twice smaller.

          And that our pension has decreased? And you buy dollars with them?
          1. +16
            22 December 2021 10: 03
            Quote: Dart2027
            And that our pension has decreased? And you buy dollars with them?

            What kind of pension have you designated in your picture? I am minimal. And you can compare with the maximum.
            Dollars for comparison with the world level. And the ruble is constantly losing its purchasing power. What could have been bought for a mower in 2013 is no longer possible to buy.
            1. -23
              22 December 2021 10: 37
              Quote: Hyperion
              What kind of pension have you designated in your picture? I am minimal.

              The minimum pension in 2013 was 6131, and the picture is average.
              Quote: Hyperion
              Dollars for comparison with the world level.

              And the prices are also world-class?
              1. +10
                22 December 2021 16: 10
                Quote: Dart2027
                The minimum pension in 2013 was 6131, and the picture is average.

                What are you, informing the members of the forum "truth", this same "truth" do not specify?
                Now the average is 15744 ($ 218). We still fall short.
                Quote: Dart2027
                And the prices are also world-class?

                Close to that. But the average pension, for example, in France is $ 1130.
                1. -16
                  22 December 2021 17: 16
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  What are you, informing the members of the forum "truth", this same "truth" do not specify?

                  Actually, in such cases, they always take the average.
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  the average pension, for example, in France is $ 1130.

                  And that's why the retirement age is being raised there. And she herself is not the cheapest country in the same Europe.
                  1. +10
                    22 December 2021 19: 28
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Actually, in such cases, they always take the average.

                    Is not a fact. For contrast, they can manipulate the data.
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    And she herself is not the cheapest country in the same Europe.

                    Not cheap. But it is France that buys gas from Russia, and not vice versa. Plus France contains crowds of migrants. At least migrants work in Russia.
                    1. -10
                      22 December 2021 20: 43
                      Quote: Hyperion
                      For contrast, they can manipulate the data.

                      In the sense of taking the maximum? I have not come across this - they usually indicate the extreme values.
                      Quote: Hyperion
                      But it is France that buys gas from Russia, and not vice versa.
                      Does she have it?
                      In addition, there is one more point:
                      According to experts from the National Institute of Statistics and Economic Research of France, the public debt of France reached 114% of GDP and amounted to 2 638 billion euros at the end of June 2020. The corresponding report was published on Friday, September 25th.
                      Details: https://regnum.ru/news/economy/3073639.html
                      1. +4
                        22 December 2021 22: 53
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I have not come across this - they usually indicate the extreme values.

                        ??
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Actually, in such cases, they always take the average.


                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Does she have it?

                        So about that and speech. France has no gas, no oil, no gold, no diamonds. Neither 130,3 million hectares of arable land, nor huge forests, fields and Baikal.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        French public debt reaches 114% of GDP

                        You would have remembered the American national debt.
                      2. -6
                        23 December 2021 07: 05
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        France has neither
                        Restructuring, no need to butt the US with associated costs.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        You would have remembered the American national debt.

                        What's not to like? When one can print money at will, then his economy will always be better.
                      3. +2
                        23 December 2021 14: 17
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Restructuring, no need to butt the US with associated costs.

                        Stalin raised the country after the Second World War, and after perestroika, almost 40 years have passed. And the US sanctions are good for us. At least that's how it was stated.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        When one can print money at will, then his economy will always be better.

                        Well, did Russia want to repeatedly de-dollarize it? True, something has not come out yet.
                      4. -4
                        23 December 2021 15: 12
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Stalin raised the country after the Second World War

                        To begin with, you need everyone (not Putin, but everyone) to work as under Stalin, then you need the standard of living to be reduced to a level that was much lower than now (it was just that the time was different).
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And the US sanctions are good for us.
                        To the benefit. Only life is not a fairy tale. For example, we lost the opportunity to purchase power plants for ships and began to launch production at our place. The fact that it was launched is great, but while they were starting to build new ships it was impossible this is a problem. And so in everything.
                      5. +1
                        23 December 2021 15: 20
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        To begin with, you need everyone (not Putin, but everyone) to work like under Stalin

                        Not necessary anymore. Technologies have developed enough that, for example, one farmer fed (conditionally) 100 people, and one factory worker provided (also conditionally) 50 people.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The fact that it was launched is great, but while they were starting to build new ships it was impossible this is a problem.

                        Yes, only it was necessary to prepare in advance import substitution, and not wait until the US imposes sanctions. So import substitution is a necessary measure, and, by and large, they did not cope with it. In some places and in some way.
                      6. -2
                        23 December 2021 20: 25
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Not necessary anymore. Technology has evolved enough

                        Likewise, needs also increase. Once a communal apartment was considered quite decent housing, but now? And so in everything. No plowing and plowing, or calmly and without undue stress, but slowly.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Yes, only it was necessary to prepare in advance import substitution, and not wait until the United States imposes sanctions.

                        Necessary. But not always everything goes as you want, the main thing is that this government does not give up, no matter what they say.
                      7. +1
                        23 December 2021 20: 45
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Once a communal apartment was considered quite decent housing, but now? And so in everything.

                        And construction technologies do not stand still.
                        In China, a ten-story residential building was assembled in 28 hours.
                        https://realt.onliner.by/2021/06/17/v-kitae-zhiluyu-desyatietazhku-sobrali-za-28-chasov-na-video-zapechatlen-ves-process
                        In Russia, of course, you need to build longer - the climate and all that, but the essence remains the same. And so almost any thing if you take it - a smartphone, for example, or a car. With the development of technology, there is a reduction in the cost of goods and services. Materials, technology and engineering solutions are changing. Remember, 10-15 years ago, how much did mobile communications cost? And now - call me, I don’t want to, sit on the Internet as much as you like. And all this for divine money.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        this power does not surrender

                        What is left for her? If at least she does not engage in imitation of violent activity, then the question of her professional suitability will arise. By the way, a lot of questions have already accumulated.
                        The outflow of funds from the Russian economy over the past 30 years has exceeded $ 1 trillion. This was announced by the adviser to the President of Russia Sergei Glazyev.

                        “Russia is the richest country in the world,” he stressed. - For 30 years, we have donated more than one trillion dollars to the world financial system, which has flowed out of the country. We honestly don't know very well where they are. We know that about half a trillion dollars circulates between offshore companies and the Russian economy - the circulation is about hundreds of billions of dollars annually. And the second half of a trillion has completely evaporated in an unknown direction.
                      8. -2
                        23 December 2021 20: 58
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        In China, a ten-story residential building was assembled in 28 hours.
                        How much time and effort was spent on preparation? Assembling the blocks is a simple matter, but they still need to be prepared.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        With the development of technology, there is a reduction in the cost of goods and services.
                        Happens. But requests are also growing - now everyone wants to have not just a mobile phone, but to have it without fail ... Previously, simple buttons were happy and so on in everything.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        By the way, a lot of questions have already accumulated.
                        And this is the classic "woe to the vanquished." Who won at TMV? USA. Not in recent years the outflow, but in all 30 years. How long has the Russian Federation begun to gradually regain its influence? In 2008, there was Georgia, but then they did not go to a serious aggravation. Actually, it is only now that the language of conversation with "partners" is beginning to change.
                      9. 0
                        23 December 2021 21: 26
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Assembling the blocks is a simple matter, but they still need to be prepared.

                        Soviet panel blocks did not grow on trees either. And a nine-story panel was built in an average of 6 months. Basically, the very concept of modularity speeds up the process. And modularity is practically everywhere nowadays.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But requests are also growing

                        It's right. No matter how much you give to a person, everything will not be enough. But there is a level of developed countries, and Russia, without any titanic efforts, could enter the top three - there would be a desire.
                        Take, for example, the Vostochny cosmodrome - the money was allocated, the workers were hired. But then it started and went: embezzlement, non-payment of workers, voids in the concrete ... And if there was control, then they would have done it right on time.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And this is the classic "woe to the vanquished."

                        Do you know that the Romans, after these words of the Celtic leader, rallied themselves, raised Rome from its knees, gathered an army, and drove the Celts with rags? And here there is no time to swing for 20 years, but everything is "just beginning."
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Actually, it is only now that the language of conversation with "partners" is beginning to change.

                        This language of conversation is not for communication with "partners", but for internal use. The classic of the genre is the rallying of the nation in the face of the enemy. In the meantime, there is a fishing trip in troubled water.
                      10. +1
                        24 December 2021 06: 53
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Basically, the very concept of modularity speeds up the process.
                        Of course, but the process itself cannot take a few hours.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But there is a level of developed countries, and Russia, without any titanic efforts, could enter the top three - there would be a desire.
                        To do this, you would first have to plow to bloody calluses. Nothing comes of nothing.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        that the Romans, after these words of the Celtic leader, rallied with strength, raised Rome from its knees

                        They didn’t collect anything. It's just that Rome had another army, which was on the distant borders and simply did not have time to the beginning of the war, and the victorious barbarians slapped its return for which they were shocked.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        This language of conversation is not for communication with "partners", but for internal use.
                        And that is why they are very nervous about Putin's ultimatum? Or do we have no enemies?
                      11. 0
                        24 December 2021 11: 04
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Of course, but the process itself cannot take a few hours.

                        Directly the process of assembling a house can. And even taking into account the preparation, the construction time is significantly reduced. For example, not 6 months, but 2 months. which is already much faster.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It's just that Rome had another army, which was on the distant borders and simply did not have time by the beginning of the war.

                        So after TMV Russia still had a Soviet reserve and potential. Not from scratch, in the bare steppe, so to speak.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And that is why they are very nervous about Putin's ultimatum? Or do we have no enemies?

                        There are enemies, but no matter how bluff this nervousness turns out to be. And Putin's ultimatums of late are like the last Chinese warning.
                      12. -1
                        24 December 2021 12: 01
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Directly the process of assembling a house can.
                        I'm not talking about installation, but about the full cycle, that is, from the beginning of the production of component parts to delivery.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        So after TMV Russia still had a Soviet reserve and potential.
                        That's not necessary, eh? I lived then and I remember very well what state the country was in - everything that could have been destroyed, plus a lot turned out to be abroad. By analogy with the then Rome - there was a mobilization potential, but the army (including literally) had to be created practically from scratch.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And Putin's ultimatums lately

                        Did he have a lot of them?
                      13. +1
                        24 December 2021 14: 46
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I'm not talking about installation, but about the full cycle, that is, from the beginning of the production of component parts to delivery.

                        The full cycle has also accelerated in our time.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        but the army (including literally) had to be created practically from scratch.

                        That’s why the RF Armed Forces are mainly armed with Soviet BMP-2, T-72, BTR-80/82, Akatsia and Msta, Mi-24, Mi-8, Mi-28, Su-27 (with modifications of the Su -35/30) MiG-29/31 and AK-74.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Did he have a lot of them?

                        Enough. Some of his calls that there is no time for buildup, what are they worth.
                      14. -1
                        24 December 2021 17: 19
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The full cycle has also accelerated in our time.
                        Has accelerated. But still, not until a few days.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        armed with mostly Soviet BMP-2, T-72, BTR-80/82, Akatsia and Msta, Mi-24, Mi-8, Mi-28, Su-27
                        Only the boxes remained from the initial groundwork. The whole filling is completely different.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Some of his calls that there is no time for buildup, what are they worth.
                        But these are not ultimatums to partners.
                      15. +2
                        24 December 2021 21: 20
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Has accelerated. But still, not until a few days.

                        Two or three times - already progress.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Only the boxes remained from the initial groundwork. The whole filling is completely different.

                        By the time the USSR collapsed, there were boxes with old stuffing, quite modern at that time.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But these are not ultimatums to partners.

                        It's cooler. This is an ultimatum to officials in their country. Which bolt hammered into these ultimatums.
                      16. -1
                        25 December 2021 07: 25
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        already progress
                        Progress.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        there were boxes with old stuffing, quite modern at that time
                        At that time, yes, but in our time it is not only not modern, but simply cannot be used due to the past expiration dates for use.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        privilege to officials in their country. Which hammered the bolt
                        When was it different? Even Stalin failed to completely subjugate the apparatus. Nicholas I seems to have said that Russia is ruled by the clerks, not he. Work in this direction is underway, we often hear about landings and criminal cases, and it is not worth expecting that everything will work like clockwork.
                      17. +1
                        25 December 2021 13: 13
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        At that time, yes, but in our time

                        Well, it was about that time. Russia got from the Soviet army, it would be fair to say, 60% of weapons and equipment, not counting the nuclear arsenal, which got almost entirely (with the exception of cut missiles). Another question is that mass layoffs from the army have begun - yes ... But there was no need to create from scratch. It was enough to reorganize the Armed Forces.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        and it is not worth expecting that everything will work like clockwork.

                        Neither should we expect the West to fulfill Putin's ultimatum. There are no levers of pressure, primarily economic ones, on the West, and constantly threatening with a nuclear club is bad for the country's international reputation.
                      18. 0
                        25 December 2021 15: 20
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But there was no need to create from scratch. It was enough to reorganize the Armed Forces.
                        I served in the 90s, and although the troops were far from elite (ZhDV), I had seen enough - the army had to be created. Actually, therefore, I have a rather skeptical attitude to the screams that Serdyukov ruined everything - everything that could be ruined and plundered before him.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There are no levers of pressure, primarily economic, on the West
                        In the United States, perhaps not, but Europe is another matter. And it's not just about gas, we are a very interesting partner for them without it, so we'll see.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        bad for the country's international reputation
                        And when did they not consider us barbarians?
                      19. +1
                        25 December 2021 18: 54
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        so let's see

                        We'll see.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And when did they not consider us barbarians?

                        Counting is one thing, but playing along with them in this is another.
                      20. -1
                        25 December 2021 20: 25
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        playing along with them in this is another.

                        It has not been possible to overpersuade for several centuries, so there is no choice either.
                      21. 0
                        26 December 2021 13: 39
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        so there is no choice.

                        There is always a choice. Look: let's say your neighbors will consider you a drunkard and a rowdy, while, in fact, you are an intelligent, calm person. Will you begin to adapt to their wishes and worldview and start drinking and brawling? After all, then it turns out that they won - they imposed on you the model of behavior that, in their understanding, is considered to be inherent in you.
                        Of course, it is not easy to prove over and over again that you are not a camel and to be clean when there is dirt around, but such is life, and the choice, I repeat, always remains.
                      22. 0
                        26 December 2021 14: 46
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Look: let's say your neighbors will consider you a drunkard and a rowdy, while, in fact, you are an intelligent, calm person. Will you begin to adapt to their wishes and worldview and start drinking and brawling?

                        Private relations and public policy should not be confused. They change their minds only when they need something from us, and then everything returns to normal.
                      23. 0
                        27 December 2021 12: 53
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        They only change their minds when they need something from us

                        So it's not about making them like them, but about being worthy ourselves. So that the dog barks, and the caravan moves on.
                      24. 0
                        27 December 2021 14: 32
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        not about pleasing them, but about being worthy ourselves

                        And we are so worthy. The problem is that you can only talk to partners with a gun.
                      25. 0
                        27 December 2021 14: 36
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        only having a gun.

                        The pistol is an extreme option. When there is already nothing to answer in terms of economy, culture and influence.
                        And if the pistol is constantly waving, but not firing from it, then the effect of it will be minimal, if not funny.
                      26. 0
                        25 December 2021 18: 17
                        Something I strongly doubt that anyone would want to live, and in a 6-month-old panel Soviet Khrushchev, and in a 28-day Chinese, except for the inhabitants of the USSR and the PRC. Although there is no such thing in Africa.

                        By the way, the USSR record in the speed of construction (in St. Petersburg, it seems) 58 hours
                      27. 0
                        25 December 2021 19: 01
                        Quote: Old Man
                        By the way, the USSR record in the speed of construction (in St. Petersburg, it seems) 58 hours

                        There is such a thing. Only these were installers from the Sverdlovsk DSK - in 57 hours, a five-story building series 1-468B. And in St. Petersburg, the same house was built in 5 days.
      5. +19
        22 December 2021 10: 52
        So for comparison, if the salary is translated into dollars, then, being the head of the department, I slipped into the salary of an ordinary specialist, which I was in 2009. I get the same dollar to dollar.
        1. -18
          22 December 2021 12: 09
          Quote: Zaurbek
          I get the same dollar to dollar.

          And in stores do you pay in dollars the same way?
          1. +16
            22 December 2021 12: 20
            One way or another, but there is a dependence on prices ... for food and housing is already proudly less ... but the equipment is all in the dollar
            1. -18
              22 December 2021 13: 53
              Quote: Zaurbek
              but the technique is all in the dollar

              You can live without new iPhones and foreign cars. Actually, if you do not chase supernovae, which give nothing but show-off, then imported equipment can be found at a reasonable price.
              1. +15
                22 December 2021 14: 01
                You can ..... but you need a tool to accumulate money ..... and preserve savings. And so that the state monopoly does not remind us that "World prices" are higher and they want the same inside the country ... electricians, gas workers and others like them are the main drivers of prices
              2. +21
                22 December 2021 14: 10
                Quote: Dart2027
                You can live without new iPhones and foreign cars

                Seed stock over 70% import, breeding stock over 60% import. Medicinal compound feed imports by 90%. One third of milk powder is imported. Plus a million tons of palm oil. This is for food. On road equipment, the dependence is about 80%. It's about the same in electronics. You can list for a long time, the essence will not change - everything is tied to the dollar.
                And if you take into account the fact that the emission of the ruble is tied to the dollar ... wink
                1. -19
                  22 December 2021 14: 38
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Seed fund more
                  You at least read what it is about. Here they discuss the issue of purchases by individuals.
                  1. +17
                    22 December 2021 15: 03
                    We are talking about pegging the purchasing power of individuals to the dollar. Everything that I have listed affects this. All products are indirectly linked to the dollar.
                    1. -12
                      22 December 2021 17: 23
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      All products are indirectly linked to the dollar.

                      Nevertheless, prices do not jump every day, like the exchange rate.
                      1. +11
                        22 December 2021 17: 38
                        The chain of commodity relations is long, and nothing more.
                      2. -7
                        22 December 2021 20: 40
                        That is, dependence on inflation in general.
                2. +7
                  22 December 2021 16: 22
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Seed stock over 70% import, breeding stock over 60% import. Medicinal compound feed imports by 90%.

                  Not only.
                  The dependence of Russians on imports has exceeded 75%.
                  The highest share of imports remains in the structure of retail sales of auto parts, children's games and toys (over 90%), as well as clothing and footwear (80-90%).

                  https://www.finanz.ru/novosti/aktsii/zavisimost-rossiyan-ot-importa-prevysila-75percent-1030979635
                  1. -13
                    22 December 2021 17: 24
                    When this fuss with sanctions began, I heard it from all sides - how much has passed there? 7 years? Well, how strongly did we turn out to be addicted? The sooner all these sanctions are introduced, the faster will be the replacement for the domestic one, which now has nowhere to come from, because the market is overwhelmed.
                    1. +4
                      23 December 2021 00: 08
                      When this fuss with sanctions began, I heard it from all sides - how much has passed there? 7 years? Well, how strongly did we turn out to be addicted?

                      The dependence on imports has not gone anywhere, just the countries of import have changed and instead of apples from Poland, you buy apples from China. But seeds, planes, special equipment, medical equipment and pharmaceuticals were bought in the United States, and they are buying and will be buying.
                      Aeroflot did not buy a new Il-96M, instead it bought several dozen Boeings and Airbuses, so import substitution is mainly on TV.
                      1. -5
                        23 December 2021 07: 25
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        Aeroflot did not buy a new Il-96M; instead, it bought several dozen Boeings and Airbuses.

                        Because in the United States they understand very well that if they do not sell them, then we will immediately develop the production of IL-s and all their sanctions will again become zilch.
                      2. +5
                        23 December 2021 08: 50
                        And what does the United States decide which planes to buy for Aeroflot? Or did the Americans just donate money to the Patriots to cancel the production of the Il-96M?
                      3. -5
                        23 December 2021 11: 07
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        And what does the United States decide which planes to buy for Aeroflot?
                        And that Boeing is not in the USA?
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        to cancel the release of the Il-96M
                        When it became possible to buy their civilian planes, then everyone who used Soviet ones, for some reason, immediately switched to them. Why would you?
                      4. +1
                        23 December 2021 20: 48
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        And what does the United States decide which planes to buy for Aeroflot?
                        And that Boeing is not in the USA?

                        The decision to buy Boeing or Il-96-400M was made by Aeroflot. And Aeroflot is now also in the US, or is it just controlled from Washington?
                      5. -4
                        23 December 2021 21: 01
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        The decision to buy Boeing or Il-96-400M was made by Aeroflot.

                        So you are scaring the US with sanctions. What up to Aeroflot
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        When it became possible to buy their civilian planes, then everyone who used Soviet ones, for some reason, immediately switched to them. Why would you?
                        Not only Aeroflot, but everyone in general. Maybe because those are just better?
                      6. 0
                        25 December 2021 22: 18
                        Not only Aeroflot, but everyone in general. Maybe because those are just better?

                        Nobody argues that Boeing is better, but what are you going to fly in then, if the supply of spare parts for imported aircraft is prohibited? On donkeys?
                      7. 0
                        26 December 2021 07: 19
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        Nobody argues that Boeing is better

                        That is why they switched to them, that in the USSR they knew how to make military aircraft, but with civilians it was not very good.
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        but what are you going to fly then if the supply of spare parts for imported aircraft is prohibited

                        Build your own.
                      8. +1
                        25 December 2021 18: 24
                        Is Aeroflot a Russian company for sure?
                      9. -5
                        23 December 2021 11: 21
                        Air transportation now, this is not transportation in the USSR ... and in the USA, the lines B747 and A380 are being removed from production ... A321XLR fly on many lines, which flies at 7-8t.km ... and its are accepted by regular airports. If we launch the MC21 and improve the SOC, we will get almost the entire line in terms of capacity and range ... and in the West this is 70% of the aircraft fleet ...
                      10. +2
                        23 December 2021 11: 55
                        We will not start. There are half of imports. We ourselves do not know how, but those over the hill will not give.
                      11. 0
                        23 December 2021 12: 39
                        Not everyone needs localized versions either.
                      12. -4
                        23 December 2021 12: 40
                        Quote: HefeДМБ69
                        There are half of imports. We ourselves do not know how

                        I don’t know how many imports there are (maybe not at all), but we ourselves just know how, only it is expensive to start production, so while there is an opportunity to buy ready-made.
                      13. 0
                        23 December 2021 21: 29
                        I don't know how many imports there are (maybe not at all),

                        There are more than 70% of imports in the SSZ. But we can say that it does not exist at all laughing
                      14. +1
                        24 December 2021 20: 15
                        "At the initial design stage, the most famous Western manufacturers of aviation components were chosen for the MC-21: Rockwell Collins, Honeywell, Thales, Elbit Systems, UTC Aerospace Systems (Goodrich Corp. and Hamilton Sundstrand), Zodiac Aerospace, Eaton and Meggitt and others. , all these companies and their products enjoy absolute prestige among aircraft manufacturers. And the main argument of those who incorporated many imported parts and assemblies into the aircraft's design was that with them the aircraft would easily receive an international certificate and high chances of becoming in demand in foreign airlines. "
                      15. +1
                        24 December 2021 20: 26
                        "At the end of April, the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation ordered research and development work to replace imported materials and products in the structure of the MC-21 aircraft with domestic counterparts, it follows from the procurement materials.
                        It also follows from the materials that by 2024 it is planned to import substitution of only 54 units and elements of MS-21 systems, including an auxiliary power unit, a stabilizer rearrangement mechanism, avionics, fuel systems, hydraulic hoses, tires, emergency escape rafts and rafts , pilot seats, interior elements of the passenger cabin. "
                      16. -4
                        23 December 2021 12: 43
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        If we start MC21

                        MOSCOW, December 17 - RIA Novosti. The developers of the Russian MS-21-300 airliner were personally convinced of the reliability of this aircraft - they were on board during the flight from Moscow's Zhukovsky airport to Irkutsk, the Irkut Corporation press service told RIA Novosti.
                        https://ria.ru/20211217/ms21-1764161603.html

                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        we will bring to mind the SSZ
                        Well, he has already flown decently. There are questions about imported parts, but they are also trying to solve this.
                      17. +4
                        23 December 2021 21: 27
                        Air transportation now is not transportation in the USSR ... and in the USA they are also withdrawing from production the B747 and A380 lines ... A321XLR fly on many lines, which flies at 7-8t.km.

                        The United States cannot withdraw the A-380 from production because it is produced in Europe, and the A-380 and B-747 are aircraft with oversized passenger capacity, the need for these aircraft has been satisfied so far.
                        But the Il-96-400M belongs to a completely different class of aircraft, such as the Boeing 787 and B 767, as well as the A330 / 340 and A350, as well as the larger B-777. These aircraft are the basis of transportation for loaded lines and production is growing; it is in this class that a new Chinese aircraft is being created with the help of our specialists.
                        Yes, the Il-96-400M is already outdated, but it is 100% domestic and it has been mastered. Aeroflot could order three to four dozen of these aircraft for domestic flights, displacing Boeings from them, this would strengthen the country's resistance to external influences and restore the competence of the half-dead Voronezh aircraft plant, and it would be possible to immediately start developing its aircraft in this class under the PD-35 and not give your knowledge to the Chinese in order to compete with them in a dozen years.
                        Our modern aircraft in this class would completely supplant foreign aircraft, especially since the need for aircraft of this class only we have more than 100 aircraft and would find buyers abroad.
                        And the Il-96-400M could eventually be converted into air tankers, which we do not have yet.
                        If we launch the MC21 and improve the SOC, we will get almost the entire line in terms of capacity and range ... and in the West this is 70% of the aircraft fleet ...

                        The key word here is "If". Yes, this is movement in the right direction but wrong actions. Why was it necessary to create the production of civil aircraft at factories where they do not understand at all what a civil aircraft is, having ready-made factories for the production of civil aircraft with relevant experience from the creation of new aircraft to service? The production of SSZH and MC21 could be launched at the Samara Aviakor, which produced the Tu-154 and on which there were all technological chains and, most importantly, experienced, trained personnel, or at the Saratov aircraft plant, which produced the Yak-42 and which was demolished by United Russia, there were also personnel and technologies for the production of civil aircraft.
                        And the main advantage of these factories, like the Kazan aircraft plant and the Ulyanovsk one, they are all located on the banks of the Volga and, if necessary, can work in cooperation transporting large assembled parts by the cheapest water transport and not transporting wings to the An-124 to Irkutsk
                      18. 0
                        23 December 2021 23: 19
                        The Americans switched from B747 to B777 and B767 .... I haven't done this yet ... .... Although the latest versions of B747 were a generation cooler than Ily96
                      19. +1
                        24 December 2021 03: 53
                        The takeoff weight of the B747-400 is more than four hundred tons, and the takeoff weight of the B767 is two hundred tons, these are aircraft of different classes. The B787 replaced the B767. B777 is a big plane, but it is between B767 and B747 with a mass of 300 tons.
                        Our Il-96-400M with a mass of 270 tons is closer to the four-engine version of the A330 and the A340 with a mass in the region of the same 270 tons.
                      20. +1
                        24 December 2021 09: 15
                        The trends are such that 4 motor aircraft cannot compete with 2 motor aircraft and the fact that narrow-body airliners began to fly far away - 6-7-8 tons km from regional airports to regional ...
                        All I mean is that wide-body airliners in pieces are not so in demand in the Russian Federation ..... and they can be bought (although work in this direction is underway, but there is more hope for export ...) and the dimension is A320-321, and so on. .d. 70% of the world fleet of liners and in the Russian Federation there is a large fleet and there is a market for MC21
                      21. 0
                        25 December 2021 22: 46
                        I do not argue about the need for MC21 at all, and I think this aircraft is much more successful than the SSJ, it was designed by those who built civil aircraft and did it competently, in the best traditions of the Soviet school, when designing it, they immediately began to design the engine, it is immediately clear that this is not a scam performed by Poghosyan and swindlers from the Government.

                        I disagree about wide-body aircraft, only the RF need for Il-96 class aircraft is more than 100 aircraft, and if the number of airports that was in the RSFSR in 1991 is reached, then this need will increase to 200, plus there is a foreign market, this is enough.
                        As for the Il-96-400M, the restoration of its production will restore competence in the construction of such complex aircraft. In parallel with the production of the IL-96, it is necessary to develop a new aircraft, for which the PD-35 will soon be available, and such an aircraft will be in demand not only in our country, participation in the Chinese project is a strategic mistake, the Chinese themselves would not be able to master the production of such aircraft and some other time would buy from us.
                        After the launch of new Il-96 aircraft into production, it could be given to the military, there the lack of tankers and AWACS aircraft and Il-96-400M could perfectly fill these gaps
                      22. 0
                        26 December 2021 20: 53
                        SSJ has also taken its own niche ...
                      23. 0
                        26 December 2021 21: 09
                        SSZ still needs to be adjusted to mind, in its current form it is a very mediocre aircraft with a huge share of foreign components.
                        The Il-114 is needed even more, only they need to be assembled not at the factory where the MiGs are assembled, these rakes have already been stepped on from the SSZ, but for example to restore the aircraft factory in Saratov, it was demolished in 2012 and the personnel still remain.
                        In general, in aircraft construction, as in everything else, our leadership is working chaotically and senselessly, but we need to set long-term goals, determine ways to solve them and set specific deadlines.
                      24. 0
                        27 December 2021 09: 05
                        Just with SSZH and MC21 (in contrast to Tu204) they worked competently and studied the market. The question is about using foreign components in something else:
                        1. There was no one of our own (It was possible to put on the SSJ everything the same as on the An178)
                        2. We made a commercial product with a desire to enter the international market .... everything is there according to the same scheme as in Bombardier and Brasils ... + or -
                        We have already gone further on the MC21 - there is a turbojet engine .... and again, the PD-14 was taken as the base one and they go up or down from it.

                        And according to the dimension of the SSZ, the basic 95 pass, the "shorty" - 75, "Long" up to 120-130 ..... then the "short" MC for 150 pass., The basic one for 211 and the promising "long" ..... and there and close to the analogue ХLR
                      25. 0
                        27 December 2021 20: 10
                        The Tu 204 was ready for production in the 90s, and for that time and for the 2000s, its characteristics were good and it is much more reliable than SSZh, and most importantly, our aircraft is 100%.
                        SSS is an example of how not to do it.
                        1. The idea with the SSZ was good, if its execution had been given not to the swindler Poghosyan, but to the Tupolev Design Bureau or the Ilyushin Design Bureau or the Yakovlev Design Bureau, which had experience in the development and service of passenger aircraft.
                        2. Due to the fact that people who were not very competent were engaged in the plane, an aircraft was created with very mediocre reliability and performance characteristics, losing in everything to Embraer.
                        3. Due to the same incompetence, no spare parts stock was created and no service was created and organized. As a result, the airlines had record downtime on the ground, and since no one wants to play these games, they all refused.

                        MS-21 was engaged in the Yakovlev design bureau, let's hope that the defective managers did not interfere too much in the process of creating this aircraft, otherwise the fate of the SSZ awaits it.
                      26. 0
                        27 December 2021 21: 59
                        It was good, but the dimensions and completeness were made to meet the requirements of Aeroflot in the USSR ... but other times have come
                      27. 0
                        27 December 2021 22: 20
                        Tu 204 is exactly in the same class as MS-21, Boeing 737 and Airbus 320/321.
                      28. 0
                        28 December 2021 09: 17
                        I do not argue. in this class, the capacity varies 150-190-220 people, etc. and the planes are now so perfect and close in characteristics that the efficiency depends on the correct choice of the basic version, from which later they will make larger or smaller versions ..... they write about Carcass that the main machine was not chosen quite correctly for modern transportation .. .. plus the outdated PS90
                3. 0
                  23 December 2021 11: 17
                  The tendencies here are more positive than negative ... and the situation is getting better every year. But you are right, the influence is strong. China managed to buy one of the seed and herbicide bureaus .... at a good time. We will not be given, we need to work out everything ourselves
                  1. +4
                    23 December 2021 11: 20
                    For some positions, yes, it gets better. For some it is worse. The situation with potatoes and sugar beet seeds has become worse.
                    1. -2
                      23 December 2021 11: 39
                      Here it is also necessary to take into account that for some positions we had nothing ... like potatoes for chips ... or corn Banduelle. And they brought us a new product.
                      1. +3
                        23 December 2021 12: 53
                        The share of potatoes for chips is scanty in relation to the total volume. And the dependence on potato seeds is 70%. The same figures for corn
                      2. -1
                        23 December 2021 12: 54
                        Corn and peas, much more .... the rest goes to the feed
                      3. +2
                        23 December 2021 12: 58
                        Yes, it becomes scary if we assume that the West will cut in total sanctions.
                      4. -1
                        23 December 2021 13: 05
                        With total sanctions, the business scheme will also change ..... the task with MC to become the 3rd manufacturer of narrow-body airliners. And the Russian Federation has a head start - its own market and the CIS market ...
                      5. +3
                        23 December 2021 13: 09
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        With total sanctions, the business scheme will change ...

                        The scheme may change, but the seed fund takes years, or even decades. And specialized specialists.
                        It may be about airplanes, but problems with components cannot be solved in one day either. request There are not so many specialists with engineering education.
                      6. +2
                        23 December 2021 13: 13
                        Yes, and the profession has ceased to be attractive. I am a process engineer myself
                      7. 0
                        23 December 2021 18: 28
                        About that and speech. A competent engineer is a piece product, the preparation of which takes at least 4 years.
                      8. +1
                        23 December 2021 23: 21
                        A competent engineer-technologist must be a flow product ... ..then it is possible to select talents from this crowd. No flow, no one to choose from and no one to work in factories
                    2. 0
                      25 December 2021 18: 31
                      As for sugar, I'm only glad - this is the scourge of modern civilization, if you count how many deaths it brought, then it would not come out more than from cigarettes. Nowadays, you cannot find a product that you wouldn’t be shoved into.
            2. +3
              23 December 2021 11: 12
              Quote: Zaurbek
              on food and housing already arrogantly less.

              In Russia this year metal has risen in price by about two times, wood three times. Housing prices should have increased in the same proportion a little later.
              1. +2
                23 December 2021 11: 41
                This is our government's fault.
                Metallurgists did not have an export duty, like oil and grain workers. So we have what we have. The government is concerned only now, when the estimates flew for the construction of large-scale Zvezda and all kinds of ships ... and BAMA
          2. +5
            22 December 2021 23: 57
            And in stores do you pay in dollars the same way?

            In stores, you pay in rubles at the dollar rate, whether you like it or not. It doesn't even matter that in our stores most of the goods are imported, our, domestic goods, no one will sell you cheaper if you can take it abroad and sell it there.
            1. -7
              23 December 2021 07: 26
              Quote: ramzay21
              In stores, you pay in rubles at the dollar exchange rate

              Truth? Why, then, does the price not jump every day?
              1. +4
                23 December 2021 09: 24
                Our prices always jump in one direction, and it is enough to compare the prices of 2013 with the current prices, you can immediately see how stable they are.
                And they do not jump along with the exchange rate, because these jumps are already included in the price.
                1. -7
                  23 December 2021 11: 08
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  Our prices always jump in one direction

                  This is called inflation and it is a worldwide phenomenon. That is why they do not jump.
                  1. +4
                    23 December 2021 11: 11
                    To you that in our country they always jump in one direction, regardless of world prices, and even more so inflation.
                    1. -6
                      23 December 2021 11: 13
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      To you that with us they always jump in one direction
                      Inflation is a steady increase in the general level of prices for goods and services in the economy.
                      1. +3
                        23 December 2021 11: 16
                        Gasoline is also getting more expensive due to inflation? belay
                        Even in the case of falling oil prices?
                        Maybe stop pretending?
                      2. -6
                        23 December 2021 12: 35
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Gasoline is also getting more expensive due to inflation?
                        Like everything else.
                  2. +2
                    23 December 2021 23: 28
                    This is called inflation and it is a worldwide phenomenon. That is why they do not jump.

                    I am glad that you know what inflation is, only it can be different, sometimes 1-2% as in developed countries and sometimes 3000% as in Zimbabwe.
                    The depreciation of the national currency, and this is what happened to the ruble, this is the difference in inflation between the dollar and the ruble, and it is by these values ​​that prices have increased since 2013 and the incomes of Russians have depreciated
                    1. -3
                      24 December 2021 06: 59
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      I am glad that you know what inflation is, only it can be different, sometimes 1-2% as in developed countries

                      With an exorbitantly inflated public debt. Simply put, the economy there is pretty much MMM.
                      1. 0
                        24 December 2021 08: 58
                        So can you enlighten why the national debt is inflated with them and the ruble is falling with us?
                      2. -2
                        24 December 2021 11: 50
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        do they have a ruble falling with us?

                        Because all these "free exchange rates" are just fiction and we do not control it. A simple example - Ukraine - 2014, the country is overthrowing the government, shooting in Kiev, and no one cares.
                      3. 0
                        24 December 2021 21: 26
                        Awesome statement! This is a conspiracy laughing Of course, you are not at all embarrassed by the fact that in 2014 the hryvnia exchange rate fell from 8 to 24 wassat
                      4. 0
                        25 December 2021 07: 33
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        Of course, you are not at all embarrassed by the fact that in 2014 the hryvnia exchange rate fell from 8 to 24

                        Due to the global financial crisis in 2008, the hryvnia exchange rate fell from 5,1 to 8 hryvnia per dollar.
                        At this level, he held out until the winter of 2014 - after the escape of President Yanukovych from Ukraine, the hryvnia began to fall rapidly and reached UAH 10 per dollar.

                        That is, all these events caused a slight fall.
                        Throughout 2014, the hryvnia continued to lose its value, and at the end of that year, the exchange rate fell to 15-16 hryvnia per dollar.
                        Where are your 24s? But:
                        On February 26, 2015, the hryvnia exchange rate reached a historic low of more than UAH 30 per dollar. Later, however, the hryvnia strengthened.
                        At the beginning of 2016, the dollar was worth UAH 24.

                        That is, the hryvnia began to seriously sink after Russia did not come to the war with minimal efforts returning Crimea and not falling into a trap.
      6. +14
        22 December 2021 11: 30
        Salary
        29 940 rubles.

        In England, unemployment benefits are higher.
        And the prices are also world-class?
        Yadba smile costs almost the same. Clothes are often even cheaper. Excise goods are more expensive, yes.
        1. -17
          22 December 2021 12: 18
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          In England unemployment benefits

          The question is how much they will still be paid. Hereditary unemployed who did not work a day and at the same time live at the expense of the rest have long become a problem and not only in England. Why do all migrants rush to Germany?
          1. +8
            22 December 2021 12: 22
            While they imitate Euro..and Pound for a long time.
            1. -16
              22 December 2021 13: 54
              So far, yes, but how long will it last.
              1. +5
                22 December 2021 13: 59
                With the Britas, the situation is the most interesting ... for all finance-debt / income / GDP, they should not feel so good ... and the Pound is not a reserve currency, it seems.
                1. -9
                  22 December 2021 17: 25
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  With Brita, the situation is the most amusing

                  As one publicist noted, all our fugitive oligarchs, for some reason, sought to leave for London, not Washington or New York there. And this is really suggestive.
          2. +12
            22 December 2021 12: 22
            The question is how much they will still be paid.
            There are no plans to cancel them.
            Hereditary unemployed
            An inevitable side effect of creating a social support system in the state.
            1. -17
              22 December 2021 13: 54
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              An inevitable side effect

              And you propose to introduce the same in Russia?
              1. +7
                22 December 2021 14: 02
                to introduce the same in Russia?
                Not enough money. But the opportunity to get help from the state in difficult times (lost his job, her husband left in the sunset, etc.) would be an appropriate help. It is worth noting that, in comparison with the employed, the professional unemployed by no means fatten and the incentives to start earning are to eat.
                1. -12
                  22 December 2021 14: 35
                  Quote: Bolt Cutter
                  Not enough money.

                  Exactly. But this is not necessary. The social worker should be moderate, otherwise it will do more harm than good.
                  Quote: Bolt Cutter
                  It is worth noting that compared to working, professional unemployed

                  It depends on what kind of workers.
                  1. +6
                    22 December 2021 14: 43
                    It depends on what kind of workers.
                    This refers to British workers.
                    Socialism should be moderate
                    She is quite moderate in Britain - for a car, restaurants, yaphons and trips abroad is not enough - you can only quietly survive (albeit tolerably). Alconauts only have enough for the cheapest swill and smuggled tobacco.
                    1. -8
                      22 December 2021 17: 27
                      Quote: Bolt Cutter
                      This refers to British workers.

                      They also receive it differently.
                      1. +6
                        22 December 2021 17: 31
                        With an average of 1775 a month on your hands, you will live a lot more fun than the unemployed (even with his housing subsidies).
                      2. -7
                        22 December 2021 20: 39
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        Getting an average - 1775 per month

                        It is the average. If it is average, then there is also a smaller one.
                      3. +5
                        22 December 2021 20: 47
                        The minimum salary is 1355 per month (at 40 hours / week). If not enough, take a part-time job, find a better job, there are opportunities. If you work less than 16 hours / week, then the allowance is still due.
                        this is average, that means there is a smaller one.
                        There is also a big one. A qualified builder will not get out of the house for less than 120 a day.
                      4. -7
                        23 December 2021 07: 02
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        There is also a large one.

                        Like ours.
                      5. +3
                        23 December 2021 11: 28
                        As far as I know, in Russia, they rarely pay 135000 a month, which is the minimum here.
                      6. -5
                        23 December 2021 12: 38
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        still rarely where do they pay 135000 per month

                        Well, everything again depends on what you can buy and where, because prices in different regions are also different.
                      7. +1
                        23 December 2021 12: 41
                        The prices here are not at all exorbitant - they are comparable to Russian ones (except for excisable goods). Cars lose their price faster - that is, they are more affordable.
                      8. -4
                        23 December 2021 12: 50
                        And then there are taxes, utilities, etc. etc.
                      9. +2
                        23 December 2021 12: 55
                        There is. (by the way, the salaries are indicated by me "on hand"). But not in Russia? They do not exist, except perhaps in Burundi, where the sewage system is dug out personally. But the standard of living here is still much higher. Something like this.
                      10. -3
                        23 December 2021 15: 07
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        They are not present except in Burundi, where

                        The question is who pays how much and how it looks in total.
                      11. 0
                        23 December 2021 15: 10
                        The question is who pays how much
                        As a percentage of salary. If my wife and I live for a year only on her salary (modestly), then we will buy a new (0 km run, interior) Mercedes. And we are not oligarchs - the pay is slightly above average. Many in Russia will be able to pull off such a trick with their ears?
                        With a large salary, more remains. From 290 pounds (29 thousand rubles) - correspondingly less.
                      12. -3
                        23 December 2021 15: 16
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        Many in Russia will be able to pull off such a trick with their ears?

                        Look at the streets. It is clear that there is more money in cities than in any remote village, but it is not an unbearable task to provide yourself with a completely decent life.
                      13. 0
                        23 December 2021 15: 19
                        You are still trying to explain to me that the standard of living in Russia and UK is about the same belay despite the multiple difference in income?
                      14. -2
                        23 December 2021 20: 28
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        that the standard of living in the Russian Federation and UKey is approximately the same

                        Representatives of similar classes will live roughly the same, adjusted for the realities of their country. Simply because when the population has a lot of money, then prices begin to straighten out in accordance with the money supply.
                        Don't you remember perestroika? Then it was also fashionable to compare salaries, that they say we receive so many dollars, but there !!! In fact, it turned out that not everything is so simple.
                      15. 0
                        24 December 2021 04: 07
                        Are you still trying to explain to me that the standard of living in the Russian Federation and UKey is approximately the same belay, despite the multiple difference in income?

                        He tries to explain that 0,7% of successful Russians live better than unemployed people in Britain, laughing
                        he compares the income of a good IT specialist with the income of the unemployed, because only such a comparison gives a positive result wassat
                      16. 0
                        24 December 2021 11: 30
                        I saw a flag from your avatar flying over one of the houses in Kraimorie (a suburb of Burgas) Yes
              2. +3
                23 December 2021 08: 24
                No, of course, we have our own way, to abolish pensions, salaries and any benefits, do you suggest?
                1. -9
                  23 December 2021 08: 32
                  Quote: Revival
                  Of course not, we have our own way

                  That is, there are no objections.
          3. +4
            23 December 2021 08: 22
            "The question is how much they will still be paid."
            The question is certainly good, but not for those who practically do not pay it at all
            1. -7
              23 December 2021 08: 31
              Quote: Revival
              but not for those who practically do not pay it at all

              They get paid.
              1. +1
                23 December 2021 14: 57
                What do they pay?
                Unemployment benefits?
                Well, how did the phenomenon of dynasties of eternal unemployed on benefits come about?
                1. -2
                  23 December 2021 15: 12
                  Quote: Revival
                  Well, how did the phenomenon of dynasties of eternal unemployed on benefits come about?

                  We don't, and that's good. Or do you want to feed them?
      7. Hey
        +8
        22 December 2021 14: 55
        About VVP it's simple: Two Papuans met. One of the other scratched his back, for which he received a kakos. Then another scratched the back of the first and took the coconut for that. As a result, both remained with their own and without pants, but GDP growth was 200%. This is such an indicator.
        1. +3
          22 December 2021 19: 32
          got a coconut.

          took the coconut

          Your Papuans speak Greek and exchange bad things (kakos means "bad")laughing ?
          But seriously, who in the world is better off - a Burundian with a real per capita GDP of $ 310, a Uruguayan with that of $ 17820, or a Swiss with 86670 killed raccoons?
      8. +4
        22 December 2021 16: 28
        and now compare 2013 with 2021, I even give a head start .. with 2019. especially interesting is the most important parameter - real disposable income. the leadership is assessed in action, rather than the way the oil rally from $ 20 to $ 20 took off 120 years ago.
      9. +5
        22 December 2021 23: 23
        True, this is good. Here's the truth:

        True, this is always good, only you forgot to mention that in 1999 oil cost $ 11 and in 2013 $ 111 and this is the reason for the GDP growth.
        The average oil production in the Russian Federation in 2013 was more than 10 million barrels per day, for the year it is about $ 350 billion in profit per year from oil alone, and there is also gas, metals and timber. Can you tell me why ALL revenues from oil and gas received by the state budget in 2013 amounted to about 100 billion, and in whose pockets were the remaining hundreds of billions of dollars?

        And don't tell me why, given such incomes, over the 20 years of Putin's rule, the number of schools and hospitals has decreased by almost THREE times, while the number of officials and billionaires has grown?
        1. -7
          23 December 2021 07: 33
          Quote: ramzay21
          And do not tell me why, with such incomes, over the 20 years of Putin's rule, the number of schools and hospitals has decreased almost THREE times

          In my comments, I am often dragged along a well-worn schedule, where the number of hospitals in Russia is decreasing, and the number of churches is growing. And of course they are dragging it not only to me in the record, but also just wherever they can. They also drag data on the number of beds - they also decrease and this is also shorter, of course, bad.
          I just suggest looking at this table.
          https://pikabu.ru/story/dinamika_kolichestva_bolnits_v_rossii_7382424

          Quote: ramzay21
          only you forgot to mention that in 1999 oil cost $ 11 and in 2013 $ 111

          Only you forgot to mention that the oil needle is the legacy of the USSR.
          Quote: ramzay21
          and in whose pockets were the remaining hundreds of billions of dollars

          Again
          how was it already? We have already gone through this and the result was disastrous.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. -2
              23 December 2021 11: 10
              Quote: ramzay21
              The oil needle is an economic concept and it is associated with Norway.
              So it was not the USSR that built the GTS on the territory of present-day Ukraine? Who created it at all is a rhetorical question.
  4. +6
    22 December 2021 07: 15
    Yes, in that it is a missile platform, with 8-10 missiles, which can "hang" for hours almost imperceptibly near the front edge
    Only if the enemy does not have radar or modern OLS - because with the external suspension of the weapon, the visibility drops sharply.
  5. -6
    22 December 2021 07: 35
    The question will arise: well, of course, there is still footage of how "Orion" launched missiles at targets and so on. What's wrong? How then did "Orion" smuggle warehouses with weapons of terrorists in Syria and everything else?
    I don’t know, to be honest.
    Here is one of these "cartoons".

    Crimean bridge is cartoons.
    Gauge Strike is cartoons.
    The Avangard missile complex is cartoons.
    You can continue, but laziness.
    1. +8
      22 December 2021 09: 34
      Since when did the construction of the bridge for huge state money become an "achievement" of the head of state?
      And the Russian enemies of the communists themselves make it almost a crime for the Soviet communists that they invested a lot of money in the military-industrial complex and the army.
      1. -8
        22 December 2021 09: 51
        Quote: tatra
        Since when did the construction of the bridge for huge state money become an "achievement" of the head of state?

        What does the Soviet government have to do with the industrialization of Russia, when industry was being built for state money?
      2. +12
        22 December 2021 10: 55
        This is a difficult undertaking. Before construction, we didn't even have an organization capable of doing such projects. It's not easy - he gave money for the bridge ....... after the commissioning of the bridge, they even discussed what else to build, so as not to disband the team.
        it is a set of -technology-skills-finance-technology and experience.
      3. +5
        22 December 2021 11: 15
        Quote: tatra
        Since when did the construction of the bridge for huge state money become an "achievement" of the head of state?

        Yes Yes Yes, not thanks, but contrary. ©

        It's nice to see the ultra-communists dig a hole for themselves with their rhetoric. smile
  6. 0
    22 December 2021 08: 06
    Another strategist.
    UAV is a device for a small war with the Barmaley or the Armenians. If the enemy has electronic warfare and air defense, UAVs turn into expensive and useless toys, the limit of which is intelligence.
    Russia is not an outsider, but a reasonable country that understands the need (for Syria, for example) and at the same time the uselessness (in a war with a strong enemy) of UAVs and therefore makes, firstly, not the most sophisticated (like the whole world), and secondly, develops a new generation of UAVs with the groundwork for an autonomous system not tied to ground control.
    By the way, for the same reason, the Su57, Armata and other miracle weapons do not go to the troops, there is no immediate need and there is an old, but still excellent weapon that can be upgraded.
    1. +11
      22 December 2021 09: 15
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      By the way, for the same reason, the Su57, Armata and other miracle weapons do not go to the troops, there is no immediate need and there is an old, but still excellent weapon that can be upgraded.

      New equipment is slowly entering the troops due to the backwardness of production, its low automation and the lack of high metalworking technologies. A brake, a stone around the neck hangs the problem of the production of domestic electronics and power plants with long operating time and overhaul life.
      Forgive me, but when SUDDENLY it becomes NECESSARY, we simply will not be given time to master the new technique. It is only at the parade that you can show off on the T-34, T-90 and T-14 ...
      And the lack of principles for creating a reliable GOS is generally a shameful spot on Russian military science. In such conditions, created from outside and inside the country, it is time to lift the moratorium on the death penalty and remember what it is:
      1. -5
        22 December 2021 20: 31
        New equipment does not come in due to its uselessness at the moment and dampness. F35 will not let you lie, which happens when in a hurry. Our automation is no worse than anywhere else, and our metalworking is nowhere steeper. We are titanium processing, that there is some kind of armor.
        How is everything in Ukraine automated?
    2. +11
      22 December 2021 10: 57
      For example, in Vietnam, the Americans used UAVs to find out the frequencies of the Soviet radars to the C75 ... ... then they successfully flew without losses. For some time. The Jews, using UAVs, defeated the position of the air defense missile system in Syria ..... why are you not using combat? Orion and Bayraktar - the same ATGM raised up. You will not be enough for everything and everyone of fighters and air defense systems ...
    3. +5
      22 December 2021 11: 53
      If the enemy has electronic warfare and air defense, UAVs turn into expensive and useless toys, the limit of which is intelligence.


      And yes and no, the organization of an echeloned air defense requires significantly more forces than the organization of a relatively massive UAV strike on a narrow sector of the front. Yes, it's enough just to look at the air defense of the Russian base in Syria (https://topwar.ru/179933-smi-nagljadno-pokazali-nasyschennost-pvo-aviabazy-hmejmim.html), not every country, in principle, can afford such air defense. And training for UAV operators is incomparably easier than for air defense specialists to combat UAVs.
      1. +2
        22 December 2021 20: 22
        most recently, Israel has bombed some Iranian weapons depots just 9 km from the Russian base. 9km away! Yes, everything jumped up there at the base when the warehouse exploded. and what is air defense?
  7. +3
    22 December 2021 08: 17
    A UAV located at a short distance from the front line is able to find itself much faster at a strike distance from a suddenly appeared enemy than aviation, and thereby influence the operational situation.

    All the same - it's a tie to the airfield. We also need a medium attack UAV on a BM, capable of attacking enemy vehicles immediately after the start:
    "So one UAV, equipped with target detectors (infrared + MMV radar), a ballistic computer and cumulative fragmentation bombs with an air brake, flying at high speed and low altitude above the column, is capable of destroying its entire column."
    https://bukren.my1.ru/publ/ware/asimm_otvet_1/2-1-0-82
  8. +16
    22 December 2021 08: 19
    In 2020, Chinese-made strike UAVs were very actively used in Libya. Who heard about their successes?

    Anyone interested has heard. Dozens of units of destroyed armored vehicles and artillery. Haftar was thrown back from Tripoli to Sirte and the war was stopped only by threats of Egyptian intervention, strikes against Turkish air defenses.
    Bayraktar costs about $ 10 million.

    The plane itself is $ 2-3 million.
    to deliver an accurate bombing strike, the UAV must descend significantly.

    In any case, the entry into the air defense zone of the near zone does not occur.
    But keeping the target in the beam of the laser located on the UAV is not an easy task.

    Is it okay that all the attacks from Bayraktars and Predators happen like that? MAM-L and Hellfire work on a laser beam and no one complains.

    In the twenty years that have passed since the first combat launch of the Hellfire missile from the Predator UAV

    Worse. Attack UAVs appeared in the United States in 1944. In the Vietnam War, they were more than actively used. There, the UAVs made several thousand sorties.
  9. +18
    22 December 2021 08: 24
    Correct and timely flock.
    It is high time to admit that with regard to UAVs we are only at the beginning of the road, and the path ahead is very difficult and costly. But for obvious reasons, we are best at bragging, exaggerating our achievements, creating a false impression of our "successes and victories."
    1. -8
      22 December 2021 09: 16
      But for obvious reasons, we are best at bragging, exaggerating our achievements, creating a false impression of our "successes and victories."

      Let's be realistic - this is common for everyone. Each one praises his own. ) Human nature is like that.
    2. -12
      22 December 2021 10: 25
      but it is also not necessary to deny the facts of success, otherwise this is a double-edged sword, recoil can torture ... And the facts are, there is Orion, it has already been tested by military operations, there is an order and deliveries are made, ALREADY there are weapons in the form of bombs and Kornet missiles and soon KABA and UABs + air-to-surface missiles will go ... So Roman here caught up with darkness where he is not
      1. +15
        22 December 2021 11: 23
        Quote: Barberry25
        And the facts are, there is Orion, it has already been tested by military operations, there is an order and deliveries are made

        All these are just dreams, dreams, dreams ...
        Isolated cases presented as real achievements. Everything is in the spirit of the present time - enthusiastic reports and the absence of any decent result. In general, as with the T-14, Su-57, and many more single copies of weapons and military equipment.
        1. -15
          22 December 2021 11: 42
          "isolated cases"? and how many, according to you, should have made Orion sorties in the same Syria? As you can see, he made 38 sorties, almost half of which were drums.
          1. +12
            22 December 2021 12: 02
            Quote: Barberry25
            How many flights do you think Orion should have made in Syria?

            Don't confuse OCD with military presence.
            We have several Su-57s doing miracles, but the troops do not.
            1. -12
              22 December 2021 12: 14
              R&D is design work, it has nothing to do with the experimental combat operation of equipment ... And yes, I will repeat the question, in a year there will be 2-3 dozen Orions in the troops, a plant for their production will start working ... as I understand it, I will hear stories about the fact that Orion is the last century and in general?
              1. +13
                22 December 2021 13: 33
                Quote: Barberry25
                in a year, the troops will already have 2-3 dozen Orions, a plant for their production will start working ...

                Dream, dream ...
                Let's discuss the harsh reality.
                Quote: Barberry25
                R&D is design work; it has nothing to do with the experimental combat operation of equipment.

                Since you are such an expert on OCD, I will expand your knowledge. Some of the main stages of OCD are:
                - preliminary tests (without the participation of the customer);
                - acceptance tests (with the participation of the customer).
                1. -12
                  22 December 2021 13: 37
                  Well, in a year we will find out whether these are my dreams, or the harsh reality ... I'll write to you later in fact)
              2. +4
                22 December 2021 20: 30
                when I hear that the fab drone throws off I have reasonable doubts. a feeling that they shove me a Mercedes with wheels at best from the classics. well, it doesn’t happen like that!
                1. -5
                  22 December 2021 21: 04
                  well, tada we have a video toad here laughing But seriously, the car CAN drop bombs and it was checked, As we already checked the Cornets and KAB-20, which in the video he carries 4 pieces.
        2. -18
          22 December 2021 11: 43
          About isolated cases .. I understand correctly that when there are dozens of cars, you will sing about "oh everything, this is not that, we need something else?"
  10. +18
    22 December 2021 08: 32
    The point here is not only outboard armament, the most important thing is that there is no mass production of the required engines for the UAV. The licensed clone "Jabiru-2200" does not fully meet the power requirements. Gavrilov Yam and UZGA have not yet established the production of the required engines. Engines for smaller UAVs are imported. In Russia, the production of general-purpose engines was destroyed by our reformers. So, not everything is all right in the "Danish kingdom".
    1. +2
      22 December 2021 12: 45
      And in Russia there was a production of engines for UAVs !?
  11. +2
    22 December 2021 09: 12
    In general, laser guidance is the last day today. More than enough protection and countermeasures.

    In addition, the laser perfectly unmasks the device itself.

    Reapers, for example, fly with the AGM-114K. Not the newest rocket, but quite relevant.
    1. +7
      22 December 2021 09: 35
      90% of missions go with corr bombs and ATGMs of the 2nd generation ..... for some exclusives you need to have more complex ammunition. The main aircraft losses in the conflicts of the last 50 years were not during attacks of ground targets, but during patrolling or ignoring threats from anti-aircraft guns or repeating the trajectories of target attacks. The same F117 in Yugoslavia ...
  12. +4
    22 December 2021 09: 32
    "Kornet", more precisely, its version "Kornet-P" (9P163M-1), can be placed on the UAV, but it has the same "weakness" - the rocket must go to the target in a spiral, in the laser beam. Yes, the aiming is automatic, but someone somehow still has to keep the target in the beam

    for some, the target is highlighted with a laser, for some, the rocket flies in the laser beam and can be adjusted at the end ...
  13. -3
    22 December 2021 09: 49
    BY THESE DEVELOPMENTS, IT IS SEVERABLE WITH THE ARMED EYE THAT THESE DEVELOPMENTS ARE CARRIED OUT BY A PRIVATE IN SMALL WORKSHOPS, AND WHERE IS OUR LOVED MIC, BUT THE GENTLEMEN !!!!
    1. +7
      22 December 2021 10: 21
      By what? The fuselage is made of composites ... it should look like this ... the filling is factory-made units. The plant is under construction in Dubna. Everything will be the same, only in large quantities.
      1. +3
        22 December 2021 10: 40
        Will you buy engines and observation stations on Ali Express?
        1. +9
          22 December 2021 10: 49
          And how does the Russian Federation produce observation stations? IR matrices - yes they bought, but they collected everything in the Russian Federation ..... now IR matrices are localized. I'm not ready to say about engines, but a piston engine in the 21st century is not the most difficult product (the question is about the resource). This is not an engine of 1000 hp and higher ... for a piston fighter, which in the USSR was not brought to the level of Western ones.
          1. -6
            22 December 2021 10: 52
            :)
            1. +4
              22 December 2021 11: 10
              There is still no information ... There was Rotax, there should have been an analog and a duplicate project - a rotary piston. For this, nothing great is needed. We have machines, we have materials, we have political will.
            2. 0
              22 December 2021 14: 55
              Russia has developed a new engine for drones
              CIAM completed the development of an aircraft rotary piston engine

              Russia has developed a new power unit for manned and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). Specialists of the PI Baranov Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM) have completed the development of a technical design for a rotary piston engine. The corresponding message was published on the website of the Foundation for Advanced Study (FPI).

              The report noted that the RPD-150T engine is being developed as part of development work on the order of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of Russia. The rotary-piston power unit is designed to replace foreign-made engines on drones and manned aerial vehicles.

              The FPI reported that at the next stage of work, design documentation will be developed for the creation of prototypes of the RPD-150T. The development work is planned to be completed in 2024.

              Earlier, Mikhail Sheremet, deputy director of the promising engine program "UEC-Klimov" (part of the United Engine Corporation "Rostec"), spoke about the development of a hybrid engine. According to him, a demonstrator of an aviation power unit based on the VK-650V engine will be released in 2023.

              In November, the general director of the Kronshtadt company, Sergei Bogatikov, announced the start of work on the assembly of the heavy Sirius UAV. The drone with two engines is being developed as a variant of the Orion unmanned vehicle.
              https://lenta.ru/news/2021/12/22/rpd150t/
  14. -2
    22 December 2021 10: 38
    Garbage article. The author writes that the rapid-fire cannons of the BMP (2A42) are useless, and the same cannons installed on the BMPT for some reason become effective.
    1. +2
      22 December 2021 11: 21
      Quote: ElTuristo
      The author writes that the rapid-fire cannons of the BMP (2A42) are useless, and the same guns installed on the BMPT for some reason become effective.

      Apparently, he believes that the SUAO and OES BMPT are better than those of the BMP-2, and are more adapted for firing at air targets. For the effectiveness of anti-aircraft fire is 90% determined by the effectiveness of its control system.
      Immediately I recall the report of the commander of the AV Enterprise on the battles near the Solomon Islands: without a working SUAO 5 "/ 38 become suitable only for shelling horizontal bombers flying at medium altitudes. smile
      1. -1
        22 December 2021 12: 20
        And what kind of anti-aircraft MSA is in the BMPT? There is not even an anti-aircraft sight, as on the BMP-2 :) It's just that the author advertises unnecessary crap from Rostec in the form of BMPT.
  15. +5
    22 December 2021 11: 05
    And again Roman and again on any topic he has "competent" and substantiated material. Such a straightforwardly versatile writer: the UAV will walk through the Navy, and the monuments are not the same in the country, and the financial system and the education system. I don't even know what else to expect from his articles: analysis of the scriptures ??
    The novel is already tired of your journalism, in the rank of a specialist on the issues you are voicing, it is clear that you are: "..not more than a" larva "of a real .." expert. Can you already decide on one topic in which you understand better?
    All right, they would still adequately draw conclusions.
    Example: our UAVs will be influenced by ".. Well, if the enemy has a more or less modern air defense system, then the threat from the attack UAVs will simply be leveled out due to the destruction of the vehicles ..." And the rest of the UAVs will not? Baybaktars will fly regardless of air defense, since they are modern weapons, and we have a full city?
    "..the level of suppression of uprisings .." - can you describe this wording in more detail? Where have drones already been used?
    Etc. etc.
  16. +14
    22 December 2021 11: 08
    In the article, the novel touched on many issues related to UAVs, but bypassed another very important and even more delicate one - the communication channels of these devices. And they are such that the use of devices is provided only at the tactical level and at a small (30-50 km) distance from the operator. The issues of weapon guidance and communications rest against the lack of an industrial and elemental base.
    1. +4
      22 December 2021 16: 07
      Good evening. I am not an expert in weapons guidance, but with control communication channels, with the use of radio communications and satellite communications, we are all right, therefore, the range of combat use of modern UAVs is limited only by their performance characteristics of the aircraft themselves, but not by communication channels.
      1. +4
        22 December 2021 16: 33
        Hello. For me as a soldier feel communication of the UAV with the control center is a key issue. It makes no difference to me what he has on the pylons, but a communication channel with streaming video and control with a delay of several ms, give what they say "on a platter" lol Naturally, I try to follow open sources for this characteristic of our devices, which alone can provide the far zone of its operation. Well, somehow none of the manufacturers claims the outstanding qualities of remote work and the ability to work not for tactical, but for operational command. request
        Here Roman talks about the cost of a UAV and compares it with the cost of a helicopter and a tank - but in an amicable way, for the successful operation of this device - whether it is reconnaissance, what is tracking and strike - a satellite must be tied to it alone or to a group of UAVs - and the cost of grouping to complete tasks will look completely different.
        1. +5
          22 December 2021 17: 17
          Colleague, as your opponent, I am a signalman who is a little in the topic of organizing control and communication channels (I have experience with streaming and low-speed satellite channels in all bands: L, C and Ku), this issue that you raised is also important.
          According to the manufacturers of Altius-RU and Orion, satellite control and data transmission channels are implemented in them. I do not see any interference in the organization of streaming video in the C or Ku band at speeds of 512 Kbit / s. And the control channels require even lower speeds. The hardware implementation has been around for a long time.
          In addition, these UAVs operate in the near-field zone (up to 250 km) via broadband "noise-like" VHF radio channels. And if you, the REB members, "crush" the canals, then, as the "Kronstadters" say, the UAV will already be solving tasks in an autonomous mode, I want to believe in it.
          1. +1
            23 December 2021 09: 42
            Your message inspires me with such a rare and necessary optimism for me. Thanks! Of course, 512kB / s is only for a camera resolution of 960h or 720p, but the main thing is that it is there and it can work everywhere.
            1. +2
              24 December 2021 11: 36
              Colleague, please note that I wrote about the streaming channel "from 512 Kbit / s", in reality there are no problems, even in the C-band with a UAV, to establish an E-1 stream.
    2. +1
      22 December 2021 20: 35
      Well, there is a signal relay.
      1. +4
        23 December 2021 06: 31
        There is definitely. They are not difficult to implement, a similar UAV acts as an RTR, which "stands in a circle" and receives and transmits a signal from the launcher to the next UAV via broadband "noise-like" VHF radio channels, which is almost 1,5-2 times the operating range when using one repeater ...
        This principle has already been implemented in the Korsar UAV, a tactical unit, which is being produced by the Luch design bureau in Rybinsk. They announced the work of their UAVs using repeaters, in the role of which are the same UAVs "Corsair".
      2. 0
        23 December 2021 09: 44
        There is a relay. But this is more about communication: radio relay, multichannel, etc. - repeaters are also sharpened for their frequencies, modulation and direction of reception and transmission. There are nuances.
  17. +8
    22 December 2021 11: 15
    And the second question: the fact that our Russian UAV developments are significantly inferior to the world ones is an unpleasant, but a fact. You can say as much as you like about the fact that Russian drones are "at the level", but in fact such UAVs that are suitable only against terrorists or weakly armed rebels are the real level of the Russian military-industrial complex.


    The USSR and the Russian Federation have been waging local wars for 50 years .... and a lot of people died due to the lack of UAVs and MRAAPs ..... even those backward ones, about which they wrote here. The mass of Mi8 and Mi24 was shot down only because they were accompanying the columns and conducting reconnaissance of the terrain or adjusting the work of artillery ...
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. -2
    22 December 2021 11: 22
    Fortunately, the defense industry and the Ministry of Defense still operate under secrecy and not all developments are reported. The author of the article should take this into account.
  20. 0
    22 December 2021 11: 27
    Quote: Victor Sergeev
    Another strategist.
    UAV is a device for a small war with the Barmaley or the Armenians. If the enemy has electronic warfare and air defense, UAVs turn into expensive and useless toys, the limit of which is intelligence.
    Russia is not an outsider, but a reasonable country that understands the need (for Syria, for example) and at the same time the uselessness (in a war with a strong enemy) of UAVs and therefore makes, firstly, not the most sophisticated (like the whole world), and secondly, develops a new generation of UAVs with the groundwork for an autonomous system not tied to ground control.
    By the way, for the same reason, the Su57, Armata and other miracle weapons do not go to the troops, there is no immediate need and there is an old, but still excellent weapon that can be upgraded.

    Well, where are they in the war with the barmaley?
  21. 0
    22 December 2021 13: 51
    Author: "UAV is a device for a small war with the Barmaley or the Armenians." Make my day! Only now it is not clear why the barmaley is written with a capital letter, and the Armenians ... Please, next time write "Armenians" with a capital letter, and preferably in ancient hieroglyphs. Thank you for the article hi
  22. +4
    22 December 2021 14: 35
    For 80 years, voynushki have not gone beyond the anti-guerrilla and suppression of uprisings, and our mo continues to think in terms of WW2, and develop uavs for a global war with NATO, while the rest of the world makes and successfully sells uavs for small wars and moves on. And why is it necessary to cram everything into one UAV, and optics and navigator and bombs with more missiles. Why can't this be spread across the link of cars, one bomb carrier, keeps the third in the sight in the radio range, watches the air, and so on. Indeed, in a specialized one and connected with other UAVs, you can insert a more powerful filling, And we will make sure that there is a global scout and a bomb carrier ala B52 and fly in the stratosphere and so that he can dive like a kite to a height of 1m, etc. P. At the same time, we are fighting with uavs in everyday life, thereby blocking young people from entering the development and use of these uavs in case of war, and besides, we bury a lot of ideas for improvement and design. Banning the USSR at one time gliding in the 20s would not have been il2 Wait a similar situation.
  23. +5
    22 December 2021 15: 19
    "To recoup the loss of one strike weapon, Bayraktar must destroy two tanks. Apache, respectively, is more than a dozen." Author, how much is the life of one tanker or pilot? What do you divide "Bayraktars" with "Apaches" into tanks ?! fool fool fool
    The most important thing in the use of both UAVs and various "robotics" is to save the lives of servicemen!
  24. +2
    22 December 2021 15: 20
    Why is the author fixated on two containers then? The mass of the Vortex TPK is 59 kg, the mass of the Kornet TPK (for a second, portable) - 29 kg, 200 kg of Orion's payload should fit either 3 Vortexes or 6 Konetov.
    Again, the use of laser-guided ammunition with MALE UAVs, in my opinion, is now the mainstream.
  25. 0
    22 December 2021 15: 41
    Bayraktar costs about $ 10 million. Apache - 52 million. The T-90AM tank "weighs" $ 4,5 million. To recoup the loss of one strike weapon, Bayraktar must destroy two tanks. "Apache", respectively - more than a dozen. Which is more likely?

    Wrong.
    How to recoup a defeat in battle? The damage that can be caused by one tank or several?
    And then reassure yourself that you saved?
  26. -1
    22 December 2021 16: 16
    Katz again offers to surrender.
  27. +1
    22 December 2021 16: 24
    On the cartoon from the MO, readings of KAB-20S and 50S with GLONASS guidance. There are likely to be such in small quantities, since they are easiest to make without optical guidance heads. But the question is whether the UAV itself can enter the coordinates of the target itself from the optoelectronic systems, or whether it should be entered on the ground in front of the wheel. If the latter is not very good.
    1. 0
      22 December 2021 17: 35
      Although if via SMS from the SVP-24 system - not bad. You can half in the air coordinates, enter into a bomb or bomb Neupr with bombs from tight heights. Indeed, on the Su-24, the SVP system usually bombs in a machine gun at the command of a digital computer.
  28. 0
    22 December 2021 16: 54
    But the value of BMPTs, armed with universal rapid-fire cannons and detection systems, and divisional air defense ("Shilka", "Tunguska", "Wasp"), capable of hitting targets such as UAVs, immediately increases.

    Shilka, Shell's cannons, will be slightly better than the ZU-23.
    We need such a system:
  29. 0
    22 December 2021 19: 16
    Documentary evidence of losses on the side of Armenia and Azerbaijan https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html
  30. -1
    22 December 2021 22: 17
    The author reports that Orion does not exist in terms of impact. Who's arguing? But he does not write anything about Orion as a means of reconnaissance and target designation. Any questions here? M. b. and everything is bad here? And then why does Orion db. shock with its carrying capacity? As I understand it, Orion is now a demonstrator of strike technology and a platform for practicing strike tactics and means of destruction for use on heavier promising vehicles. And what's the problem? Yes, the stage of development of small-sized weapons and guidance systems is underway. The stage will be completed, everything will be and will be an analogue of Bayraktar. Do we need it? Where? In Syria or Africa? A m. on the Sea of ​​Azov?
    1. 0
      23 December 2021 05: 48
      Is that for "Wagner"
  31. -2
    22 December 2021 22: 35
    And on the other hand, Kronstadt will make Orions with Cornets next year 15 pieces and work in Syria to cover the Syrian army from Bayraktars and shihadmobiles. 2 Kornt = 2 Bayraktar or shihadmobile. 2 Cornets = 2 boats on the Sea of ​​Azov. This is bad? When else will Altius take off ...
    1. +2
      23 December 2021 04: 35
      2 Kornts = 2 Bayraktar or shihadmobiles

      Is the Cornet already better than the Willow? Does 100% shoot down a small aerial target? smile
      1. 0
        23 December 2021 18: 27
        Verba on the shihadmobile? Will it work?
        1. +1
          23 December 2021 21: 10
          According to Bayraktar, your words request
  32. 0
    22 December 2021 22: 38
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Roman loves to rinse the members of the forum in the washing machine of the information war.

    Well, yes. And most importantly, it is clear which side he chose.
  33. -2
    22 December 2021 23: 08
    Fortunately, the author has stopped calling for specific weapons for each drone.

    If there is a country that can offer standard weaponry to its combat drones, it is Russia:

    1.-) Any type of portable weaponry can be used from unmanned aerial vehicles.
    2.-) Air light machine guns. GSh 7,62 of 7,62 mm and YakB 12,7 mm.
    3.-) Air heavy machine guns and autocannons. GSh caliber 23 mm and 30 mm with 1, 2 or 6 barrels, plus 2A42 caliber 30 mm.
    4.-) Airborne guided bombs. KAB and its successors.
    5.-) Air unguided missiles S-8, S-13 and S-25, probably upgraded to guided missiles.
    6.-) Air anti-tank missiles 9K114 "Shturm", 9M120 "Attack", 9K121 "Whirlwind"
    7.-) Modern air-to-surface missiles. Many.
    8.-) Modern air-to-air missiles. Many.
    9.-) Air anti-submarine missiles. Rockets APR.

    FAB unguided bombs? At the moment, they are most likely exhausted in Russian arsenals.

    Of course, the options available for each combat drone depend on its payload.

    In general, combat drones are being developed as a consumable, which means achieving the lowest possible costs. But the known data on the Su-S-70 Okhotnik show a technological level not reached by the United States or Israel, with a payload of about 5000 kg. In terms of combat drones, Russia does not lag behind other countries.

    (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

    Fortunately the author stopped calling for specific armament for every UAV.

    If there is a country that can offer standard armament to its combat UAVs is Russia:

    1.-) Current man-portable armament of every type can be used from UAVs.
    2.-) Aerial light machine guns. GSh 7.62 of 7.62mm and YakB of 12.7mm.
    3.-) Aerial heavy machine guns and autocannons. GSh of 23mm and 30mm with 1, 2 or 6 barrels, plus 2A42 of 30mm.
    4.-) Aerial guided bombs. KAB and successors.
    5.-) Aerial unguided rockets S-8, S-13 and S-25, likely upgraded to guided rockets.
    6.-) Aerial anti-tank missiles 9K114 Shturm, 9M120 Ataka, 9K121 Vikhr
    7.-) Current Air-Surface missiles. many.
    8.-) Current Air-Air missiles. many.
    9.-) Aerial Anti-Submarine missiles. APR missiles

    FAB unguided bombs? At this point they are very likely exhausted in the Russian arsenals.

    Of course, the available options for every combat UAV depends of its payload.

    In overall terms combat UAVs are being designed as expendable material, and it means to reach the lowest cost possible. But the known data about the Su-S-70 Okhotnik are giving evidence of a technological level that the United States or Israel reached not, with a payload around 5000Kg. On combat UAVs Russia is not behind other countries.
    1. -2
      23 December 2021 06: 41
      Let us recall the main disadvantages of special weapons for unmanned aerial vehicles in comparison with standard weapons.

      It is clearly wrong to think that unmanned aerial vehicles should have their own weapons. This may be in the interests of the military industry, but not in the interests of the Russian Armed Forces.

      1.-) First, weapon development is very expensive. The budget for developing a specific weapon for unmanned aerial vehicles that can match the high performance levels of the Cornet or Whirlwind is indeed very expensive. This is an attempt to do it once per generation of weapons.

      2.-) Secondly, the creation of specific weapons leads to a situation where the entire stock of shells must be created from scratch in order to use a combat drone. It is also very expensive and leads to a lack of ammunition many times over.

      3.-) Third, updates are much easier to apply to standard weapons than to specific weapons. Retrofitting is also expensive.

      4.-) Finally, the argument for poor aerodynamic effect is very weak when it comes to weapons such as the Vortex, a variant of the Chrysanthemum that was designed for airborne platforms and is usually carried by airplanes and helicopters on external sling.



      (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

      Lets remind the main disadvantages of the specific armament for UAVs compared to the standard armament.

      It is wrong clearly to think that UAVs must have their own armament. This may be in the interest of the military industry but it is not in the interest of the Russian Armed Forces.

      1.-) First, the development of weapons is very expensive. The budget for the development of specific weapons for UAVs that can tie the high level performance of the Kornet or the Vikhr is really it is very expensive. This is an effort to do one time in a generation of armament.

      2.-) Second, the creation specific armaments leads to a situation where all the stock of projectiles must be created from zero, in order to use the combat UAV. This is also very expensive, and leads many times to a shortage of ammunition.

      3.-) Third, updates are much easier to be applied to standardized armament than to specific armament. Modernizations are also expensive.

      4.-) And finally, the argument about the bad aerodinamic effect is very weak talking about armament like the Vikhr, a variant of the Khrizantema, that was designed for air based platforms, and is habitually by aircrafts and helicopters on external pods.
    2. -2
      23 December 2021 06: 51
      It is also important to note that with advanced developments such as the Su-57, it should come as no surprise that Russia can also present cutting-edge technological developments in the field of unmanned aerial vehicles such as the Su-S-70. Russia has effectively dominated aerial combat technology in a form that surpasses that of the United States and in a form that Israel cannot even dream of.

      (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

      Also it is important to note that with leading designs like the Su-57, no-one should be surprised that Russia can present also leading technological developments on unmanned aircrafts, like the Su-S-70. Russia actually dominates the combat aerial technologies in a form that surpassed the designs fo the United States, and in a form that Israel can not even dream with to reach.
      1. 0
        24 December 2021 08: 18
        The only potential error in my previous three comments could be the fact that airborne light machine guns (point 2) can also be completely withdrawn from Russian arsenals today, just like the FAB and other unguided bombs of the same age.

        But neither would be a problem. This only means that the smallest unmanned aerial vehicles, including flying munitions, can be designed to use standard portable ammunition, mainly portable surface-to-air ammunition of each model, portable surface-to-surface ammunition of each model and portable mortar ammunition of 120 mm caliber. And also the use of portable grenade launchers or portable machine guns cannot be ruled out.

        If in other countries there are designs of flying wings of the technological level of the Su-S-70, the likely successor to the Su-34/32, someone can tell about them. The problem with "experts" without technological knowledge is that they need others to tell them what is technologically possible and what is not. And at the moment of probable confirmation that the Su-S-70 looks like a supersonic air machine with a flying wing, they can only remain silent.

        (Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

        The alone potential mistake of my previous three comments can be in the fact that the aerial light machine guns (point 2) can also be completely exhausted from the Russian arsenals today, like the FABs and the rest of unguided aerial bombs of the same age.

        But neither this would be a problem. It only means that the smallest UAVs, including loitering ammunition can be designed for the use of standard man-portable ammunition, mostly man-portable surface-air of every model, man-portable surface-surface of every model, and man-portable mortar ammo of 120mm. And neither can be excluded the use of man-portable grenade launchers, or man-portable machine guns.

        If other countries have flying wing designs of the technological level of the Su-S-70, the likely successor of the Su-34/32, someone can talk about them. The problem of the "experts" without technological knowledge is that they need others to say them what is technologically possible and what is not. And at the time of the likely confirmation of the Su-S-70 like a supersonic flying wing aerial machine, they only will be able to stay silent.
  34. 0
    23 December 2021 09: 42
    Quote: Orso
    According to the manufacturers of Altius-RU and Orion, satellite control and data transmission channels are implemented in them.

    It is good if these are not only statements. When working through the GSO, the delay will be large. Do you think Krasnoyarsk has done something worthwhile?
    1. 0
      24 December 2021 13: 28
      When operating via satellites in geostationary orbit, the total delay does not exceed 0,4 ms. For telephone channels, there has long been equipment for compensation of delays, for normal communication, but for data transmission channels, this is not a critical characteristic.
  35. +2
    23 December 2021 11: 58
    Quote: Zaurbek
    This is our government's fault.

    Are you sure that there are still reserves of mature forest in Russia. 6 years ago in Kiknur I was told that for the local lumberjacks the opportunity to work remained only in the winter on wetlands. The rest of the forest from Kirov to Moscow has already been cut down. I also had to see orders of Belarusians for equipment for a metallurgical plant or an order of Kazakhs for tensometry for a coal mine .. Replacing everything German for impoverished Russian companies on the terms of metallurgists is very problematic ...
  36. 0
    23 December 2021 17: 39
    there is such a suspicion that the main danger for the RF Armed Forces is the F-35. Their quantity and quality cast doubt on the ability of the Aerospace Forces to keep the situation in the air at an acceptable level. And here it would be possible, in addition to developing the Su theme, to develop something asymmetric, such as a helicopter UAV-air defense. A small device with a powerful radar and sensors and a set of air-to-air missiles simply takes off and patrols the area without communications and control. Service is purely refueling and missile suspension. Such systems cannot be destroyed by conventional means (the entire spectrum of air-to-ground, ground-to-ground) except by air-to-air missiles, which gives an advantage over ground-based air defense systems. In addition, they are highly mobile and cover a large area with their patrols, creating an unpredictable air defense configuration. Since they will simply fly and shoot down everything that flies, this means in areas where nothing of their own is flying. Algorithms can be any - ambushes, patrolling in the folds of the terrain and hiding behind houses and barriers, fast movement. Cheap (plastic, no need for superloads when maneuvering), massive, possibly unobtrusive and easy to maintain - they can pose a threat to enemy aircraft even in the absence of aerospace forces and ground air defense. In essence, it is just a flying carrier for radar and missiles, with no offensive capabilities. A network of ground brigades will allow launching in one location and planting in another.
  37. +2
    23 December 2021 21: 20
    Only one thing is clear from the article - we do not have a UAV. And it won't. There is no school, no technology, no base. Everything is already THERE.
  38. 0
    25 December 2021 11: 13
    "Yes, from such a distance, the drone cannot independently attack the target or illuminate it with a laser. But it is quite possible to observe a significant amount of area occupied by the enemy. Accordingly, to observe the work of enemy artillery and MLRS, give their coordinates for counter-battery combat, adjust the work of its artillery, and etc. It is possible that the UAV can approach and attack on its own. "
    And it is generally safe to do this from a satellite.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. 0
    27 December 2021 18: 26
    rocket - 9M133FM-3 was guided from the UAV by the optical-thermal imaging method, without laser illumination. This was recently shown on many TV channels. Cartoons? Oh sorry, the video was only shown on December 25th.
  41. 0
    28 December 2021 09: 08
    Where can the current version of Orion be installed? If tanks have learned to defend themselves against ATGMs with a laser guidance system, can UAVs be used to destroy front-line air defense systems in order to reduce the losses of helicopters, attack aircraft and others? Or hunt for armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles in the near rear, self-propelled guns in positions and on the march? To strike at the rear supply columns (tanks do not fire without shells and do not drive without fuel)
  42. 0
    30 December 2021 23: 42
    Interesting article, but as often on this site, childish. The author is sincerely offended that we do not have a wunderwaffe, someone has overtaken us, sinister in M.O. do not tell the whole truth, and so on. And I think that with our budget, such results are great and amazing!
  43. 0
    5 January 2022 12: 24
    The UAV also has drawbacks. Since the aircraft simply cannot carry the observation and aiming complex, like an aircraft, then to deliver an accurate bombing strike, the UAV must descend significantly... And at low altitudes, any device is a target for enemy anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems.

    - Another nonsense: "Bayraktar" confidently worked from heights of up to 6 kilometers. More advanced UAVs can work even from the stratosphere - if there is a television seeker on the bomb or rocket itself ...
  44. 0
    5 January 2022 12: 28
    Quote: eehnie
    It is also important to note that with advanced developments such as the Su-57, it should come as no surprise that Russia can also present cutting-edge technological developments in the field of unmanned aerial vehicles such as the Su-S-70. Russia actually dominates air combat technology in a form that surpasses that of the United States and in a form that Israel cannot even dream of..

    - Poor spotlight! fool How terribly far from reality you are on your couch ... negative
  45. 0
    7 February 2022 07: 39
    104 of the year has passed.
    Nothing changed.
  46. 0
    18 February 2022 21: 43
    A dubious article, this is clearly seen in the following places:
    In development (models were shown at exhibitions) bombs weighing 20 and 50 kg. How much they will be manageable or adjustable, time will tell.
    ,
    The drone will not have a navigator on board who can accurately calculate the drop point. Accordingly, it will be necessary to use the tactics of dropping bombs from low altitudes for light ammunition.
    ,
    Plus, the target for the Whirlwinds must be illuminated with a laser, along the beam of which, in fact, the rocket goes
    . The first of these theses is broken down using banal logic, the article earlier talks about the Bayraktar, which showed good results in Karabakh and Libya, while no comments were made regarding the accuracy of hits, while the author either does not know or deliberately keeps silent about the fact that the most popular ammunition for this UAV is the MAM-L guided bombs, which weigh only 22,5 kg, which is similar to domestically developed ammunition. From this we conclude that there are no objective reasons to doubt the accuracy of domestically developed bombs, since it is very unlikely that the Turks were able to develop such ammunition, but our specialists could not. The second thesis generally sounds very strange, if we turn to modern aviation, we will see that single-seat aircraft models do not experience any problems with calculating the point of a supposed bomb impact, and this began in the mid-80s, and some samples had such an opportunity even during the Vietnamese war, what can we say about modern computing systems, especially considering that UAVs, in theory, can use external computing power. Based on all of the above, this thesis sounds like an invention of the author. The third thesis can be presented as a statement made to discredit the domestic UAV, because. the stated claim is valid both for the Orion and for the Bayraktar, and in principle any adjustable bomb capable of hitting moving targets. It seems that the entire article was written solely for unfounded criticism of the Orion UAV

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