Military Review

Whom and how will the "corrupt" army defend?

422
Whom and how will the "corrupt" army defend?
Photo: mil.ru


Something tells me that the "indestructible and legendary" army, despite the billions injected, is steadily decaying on the way to complete degradation. There are many reasons for this, and we will now go over them.

Of course, if you believe the Zvezda TV channel, our army is so good that if something happens, any adversary will be thrown to dust in the shortest possible time.

The proof of this is usually the victory over one of the strongest armies in the world in Georgia in 2008 and the battle in Syria with the terrorist group ISIS, banned in Russia, but never defeated, despite several statements, Russia.

Worthy rivals, of course, but that's not even the point.

The main enemy of the Russian army, I consider the command of this very army. Very effective managers who came to "save" the army from the table-maker Serdyukov and his reforms. They seem to have been saved from Serdyukov, liquidated the consequences, and filled the army with money. And at the same time they spread it nowhere further.

Do you remember that an information battle unfolded on our pages in support of the "captain-informer" Zolotarev, who wrote 14 letters to Putin complaining about what was happening in the army and was thrown out of this army like a holey boot?

Two years of battles led to the fact that Zolotarev nevertheless won, won all the courts, was reinstated, served until the end of the contract, received housing and was forgotten by the 20th Army of the Western Military District, like a bad dream.

But the complaints don't stop. Recently, those who are dissatisfied with something no longer follow their usual path. They turn to Semin, Platoshkin, bloggers. Nobody is counting on the commander-in-chief and the minister of defense.

It is really terrible when the officers prefer to write not to Putin and Shoigu, because they do not believe in the effectiveness of the commander-in-chief and the minister. They prefer other ways.

We can say that our state has built just an excellent vertical, in which any complaint against someone above, does not matter, it concerns the army, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, power structures - it (the complaint) will return to the one against whom it was filed in most cases. Therefore, there is practically no point in filing complaints. The complainants will certainly find out about the complaints, and then, as practice shows, a “fun” life begins for the complainant.

The picture that is drawn from the hits is not very beautiful. The main problem is that “effective managers” have made the army the same tool for earning money as anything else in the country.

Do you want a position? No question, pay. Do you want a title to claim something more? Direction to the academy? Going on a business trip to Syria? No problem. Pay, and great prospects will open before you.

This is, if it is a secret for anyone, it is exclusively for those who live by the reports of "Zvezda" and the first channel. The rest are in the know.

Today everything in our army costs money. From the very bottom to the very top. This also applies to contract soldiers and officers and even conscripts.

With conscripts, everything is easier, they were both robbed and continue to be robbed. Of course, a lot depends on the unit, there are those where sergeants are furious, there is where everything is quiet and peaceful in this regard. However, in my entourage, five conscripts (two in the Western Military District, three in the Central Military District) simply did not receive their pay for the last month of service.

Yes, it would seem - a trifle. The guys are going home anyway, who will fight there for these pennies? Meanwhile, for the last month of service, the soldier must receive a double salary. That is, not 2000 rubles, but 4000. On the VTB card, which is issued at the military registration and enlistment office.

However, all my friends never received this last payment. Yes, they were driving home and it sounded like "let them choke." And where the payment did not come from, apparently, they did not choke. Just because the company is already 400. This, you see, is money. Because how many such platoons-companies-battalions can be robbed so quietly?

So they are being robbed.

And all the demobels are silent, because to get involved with the army, which you leave with such pleasure for the sake of four thousand ...

Meanwhile, all this is clearly approved from above. And a long time ago. When I was just starting my activity at Obzreniye, I had an article about how in Migalovo, near Tver, the airfield servicemen of that very Moscow air defense airfield were not paid allowances. And I have long remembered the lesson the County Treasury taught me. It turned out to be guilty ... the company commander, who did not submit something like that on time. The commissars delayed the assignment of the next rank and, in general, the person was very offended by me.

And what, they steal less? No more. At the district level, apparently. Because money just doesn't go to the cards of the fighters. Apparently, they go somewhere else, for other, "correct cards".

And, apparently, everyone is in the know and at the checkout.

By the way, especially for would-be patriots, who will now start yelling in the comments that “the author sold out and invented everything” - two out of five work in our “Observer” system. So - there is someone to ask again, if necessary.

Money is being stolen by the millions. It is a fact. The Internet is full of memories on this topic, I see no point in discussing it. I will only repeat that the theft is legalized at the district level.

On the whole, an excellent system has been created, somewhat reminiscent of the old Soviet army. Remember, you are "spirit" first. No rights, no obligation to fly and plow. The most tedious and dirtiest job. Then "elephant". Well, you plow, but not like the "spirit". Then the "skull". Already better, you can already breathe, grandfathers are no longer creepy. Then "grandfather". That's all, a relaxed expectation of "demobilization". Deliberately dropped the titles of "smell" and "demobilization", they are useless here.

Now it is the same with officers and contract soldiers in many units. Those at the very bottom pay to move up the corporate ladder. And they pay very much. Perhaps dreaming of moving upstairs in order to "recoup" their investments, because it is simply impossible to do this at the company-battalion level.

Business trips to Syria are a separate story. Yes, they are very well paid, and therefore there are more than enough people willing. Accordingly, there is a demand - there is also a desire to make money on it. And everyone who has the opportunity to do this makes money.

Sources say there is a price list for "services." Officer courses - from one hundred thousand, a business trip to Syria or Libya - from four hundred.

Plus, it becomes commonplace to "congratulate" household appliances and computers for high command. Well, like a rent for a master.

In our district, the 3rd motorized rifle division of the 20th army, which is located in Valuyki, Belgorod region, continues to “thunder”. As far as I understand, this unit will soon scare the servicemen and take money from them in order not to send them there.

At a time when we had not yet been "banned" by the Ministry of Defense, and we visited various units of the 20th Army, we were in Valuyki more than once. And once there was a raid "in black".

And yes, that same unfortunate captain Zolotarev also served in Valuyki. Major Pugachev also served there, about whose "exploits" I was then begged not to write. Major tried to take the military police capture group, but failed. Pugachev left, I don’t know how the matter ended further.

The major became famous for becoming a slave trader. He had a living space on which he kept conscripts, whom he used for his needs. The military police freed three of these "slaves", and I even managed to talk to two as soon as the guys were returned home. But the very next day they refused to talk, as the investigation was underway. And then the phones were changed. "Work" was carried out, as I understand it.

Already this year, in one of the regiments, a gang of extortionists of 20 people was "exposed", which robbed conscripts.

If you look at the division in Valuyki, especially the mortality rate in this unit, then it is terrifying. 8-10 people a year. Is that okay? Yes, of course, there soldiers in a strange way slip through all the commissions in order to serve, being mentally unbalanced.

By the way, representatives of the press service of the Western Military District strongly "recommended" me not to get involved with Captain Zolotarev, since they considered him to be mentally ill. Say, army psychologists talked to him, the result is disappointing. That is, an officer who passed the sieve of the selection of military registration and enlistment offices, the Suvorov military school, the higher one - and suddenly turned out to be a nutcase.

As well as systematically declare mentally unbalanced conscripts and contract soldiers who suddenly take their own lives. Especially by putting a plastic bag over your head.

In general, the conveyor is working.

And, it is clear and understandable that while you are in the army, to prove something is just to bring on your head such adventures that you will not see in every horror movie. And after the service is over - you can try, but not everyone wants to dive into this mud again.

That is why everything is "sewn-covered". It is difficult to say where and to whom the money stolen from conscripts and obtained by extortion from officers and contract soldiers goes, but the system is rotten to the core. This means, most likely, all top-level command, from the division to the district "at the cash desk."

Of course, there are decent officers in the Russian army. This is undeniable. There are those who, from an early age, would like to become the defender of the country and devote their whole lives to this. There are such people. But even their created system cripples.

Spoke to an officer who had recently left the army. Lieutenant Colonel, our fellow in the "Review". The opinion is very sad. Today everything is really about money. Pay and Fly. Previously, if a senior boss promoted you to a good position, you owed him, of course. "Polyana", help, support. Now - only money.

We don't even talk about checks. Immediately money, moreover, not that the inspectors begin to extort, the auditors themselves pop. And if you do not take it, then they start to look very unkindly. If you do not take it, it means you have a bad idea. Well, or quite a fool, since you don't take it.

Nobody says that "before this was not at all." There were bribes, there were. But it really was not a frequent and dangerous business. And now the bribe has simply been elevated to the rank of official payment. Paid - position. Also - courses. Another medal. Also - I passed the test for "excellent". Etc.

Before, we (many of us) served for the idea. The idea of ​​defending your country. And this country had an army that everyone feared. The whole world.

And now? And now, in fact, there is a certain state commercial structure that provides services to protect the interests and security of the country. On a commercial basis.

And yes, there is a commercial component. That was housing certificates, then money was planted before the elections, now here is an early retirement. And naturally, since this is all on a commercial basis, then the movement of funds within the organization is almost a normal thing.

And here the question arises: what will such an army be capable of? And in general, is it an army or what?

How effective will the soldiers robbed by junior contract commanders be? In general, absolutely nothing. One of those who recently served in the 144th Guards Mechanized Infantry Division in the Bryansk region said to me: it's good that there were no battles with Ukraine, in our very first battle all the sergeants would have gone to bed.

How well the officers who bought their posts for decent money will act, I am also afraid to think. Something tells me that it is not very good. Commodity-money relations between the officer corps hardly contribute to the strengthening of the combat capabilities of the units.

They say that in Siberia and Transbaikalia everything is not as sad as in the European part of Russia. But NATO is also stationing its troops not in the region of Chita and Irkutsk. Alas.

And after all, in the event of a real military conflict, I more than doubt that there will be queues at the military enlistment offices. And here the fault is not only the complete absence of state ideology, although it is also to blame. And also a deliberate demonstration by the authorities at all levels of disregard for their citizens.

More than once I have heard from my social circle the opinion that tomorrow a large-scale conflict will be simply impossible for a simple reason: there will be no money. Today, in Libya and Syria, small contingents are fighting for very decent money, which comes from the accounts of a slightly different bank than the usual VTB.

Therefore, there are those who want to fight for such amounts. And pay the right to serve for such amounts. In the event of a full-scale conflict, I doubt that it will be possible to withdraw the Russian army "to fight for the idea." Those who wish to defend the interests of the Russian authorities will not be free to. It is enough to read the comments on the Internet.

And here we have an interesting nuance. All this nightmare with the payment of posts will lead to the fact that the army will completely lose its combat capability.

When the boss moves his subordinate up the career ladder, a certain adhesion and ligament arises between them. They support each other. This is normal, the Soviet army was holding on to this.

Today, a contract sergeant, laying out money for the position of platoon commander, and an officer for the position of battalion commander, practically BUY these positions. And, quite naturally, buying posts makes them partly property. Yes, you won't be able to resell, the money will still go to others. But the person PAYED. This means that he can consider this position as his own.

What can you do in your position? That's right, to perform duties as your calculation dictates. In the current text of the oath, not a word is said about the defense of Russia "courageously, skillfully, with dignity and honor, not sparing his blood and life itself in order to achieve complete victory over enemies." It remained there, in the USSR.

Today, dying and not sparing blood is not necessary. The main thing is to “sacredly observe the Constitution of the Russian Federation”. And it also does not say anything supernatural.

In the event of a full-scale conflict, I predict desertions on a staggering scale. It is good that there was no conflict with NATO on Ukrainian soil. I can imagine how the personnel of the same 3rd motorized rifle division would have fled, simultaneously shooting their internal enemies.

All this is sad. The army is actually turning into the same tool for making money as the deputy corps or the executive branch. This means that we are in for a complete degradation, similar to the one that we observe in Dumas of different levels and in the offices of mayors and governors.

High-level "effective managers" have already destroyed a lot. Today we are witnessing the complete inability of our industry to master the release of new models. tanks and aircraft, the complete degradation of the space industry, which turned into a nightmare of culture, medicine and education.

Apparently, the army will simply become (if not already) another place where people simply earn money by providing protection services. But this is no longer quite an army. More precisely, not an army at all. And it is rather difficult to predict how such orders, which are being intensively imposed in the army today, can turn out to Russia.

And we have not yet touched on such an eternal topic as window dressing. But this is a separate conversation, how we have all these "new" methods of warfare. But we will definitely talk. It's worth it. Sometimes it’s just dangerous to be silent.
Author:
422 comments
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  1. Dimy4
    Dimy4 14 December 2021 05: 36
    +74
    For that state system, so to speak "For Putin and the oligarchs", no one has a desire to fight.
    1. Finches
      Finches 14 December 2021 06: 50
      +30
      After a long ban, it is always necessary to start with Roman Skomorokhov in order to immediately receive communion ... I especially liked that there was only one decent officer in the Russian army, and that Zolotarev! And with his departure, a completely hopeless haze of total despair came! laughing
      1. Civil
        Civil 14 December 2021 07: 27
        +36
        1.
        "Indestructible and legendary" army,
        It is written about a completely different army that defended completely different values.
        2.
        The army is actually turning into the same tool for making money as the deputy corps or the executive branch.

        And that these people fell from the moon? And I didn’t see those dissatisfied before / during / after the elections on September 19.09.2021, XNUMX, everyone was silent, agreeing with the results.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 14 December 2021 07: 42
          -76
          Quote: Civil
          I saw those dissatisfied before / during / after the elections on September 19.09.2021, XNUMX, everyone remained silent, agreeing with the results.


          The State Duma passed the test. The law on piarkodas will not be adopted.


          This is the real result of the amendments to the Constitution and the election of the Duma under the new rules - the Duma has become ours.
          1. Far B
            Far B 14 December 2021 07: 56
            +72
            The State Duma passed the test. The law on piarkodas will not be adopted
            You have no idea how ridiculous you look in your attempts to wash the dog. The project on somersaults on transport was withdrawn from discussion - that is, in fact, it was sent for revision, which Mr. Volodin said in almost direct text ("The law turned out to be unexpectedly complicated, mla-mla-mla ...") Otherwise nobody refused the law on somersaults. Madame Arbidol just said so - from next year they will be able to receive unofficially those who have recovered from the disease and who were injected with a foreign vaccine.
            Yes, in fact, this law is somehow not much needed - the one to Whom you have an undivided feeling has transferred powers to the level of the regions, and there it is not even the governors who rule this topic, but the sanitary chief doctors.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 14 December 2021 08: 08
              -53
              Quote: Dalny V
              i.e., in fact - sent for revision,

              That is, it will be pushed into the back box (like the law on the Constitutional Assembly, which will not be adopted since 1993). On this issue, the Duma took the side of the president, who constantly says that vaccination is voluntary. GKChP-2.0 lost this battle, but the Medvedevskys are still gorging on something.
              1. Far B
                Far B 14 December 2021 08: 28
                +71
                On this issue, the Duma took the side of the president, who constantly says that vaccination is voluntary.
                If the Duma believed that vaccination was voluntary, it would have quickly adopted a law on the responsibility of regional authorities for the introduction of restrictions not provided for by the nullified constitution. (How smartly the thought can work when you need to bend under the Subject of your undivided feelings, we remember very well from the example of last year, when the above Subject required zeroing). However, the Duma believes that vaccination is a voluntary matter only when it comes to the deputies themselves.
                And GKChP-2.0, Medvedev's and Putin's, the battle of towers - all this happens exclusively in your mind. In reality, we can observe that we have only one tower, and it has actually gone. And what your president says there is absolutely unimportant. He's just sitting in ambush right now. In order to appear before the people at the right time and say your sacramental: "I ask you to treat with understanding, panimaish."
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 14 December 2021 08: 48
                  -51
                  Quote: Dalny V
                  And what your president says there is absolutely unimportant. He's just sitting in ambush right now.

                  Only when the legislature (Duma) and the executive (the president) work in unison, only then will we become great. And when one is in the forest, and the other for firewood, then there will be no sense.
                  1. Far B
                    Far B 14 December 2021 08: 57
                    +37
                    Only when the legislature (Duma) and the executive (president) work in unison
                    But wait weed! You just wrote a couple of posts above that the thought merged with the president in ecstatic unison, like two dogs during a dog wedding:
                    This is the real result of the amendments to the Constitution and the election of the Duma under the new rules - the Duma became ours
                    On this issue, the Duma took the side of the president, who constantly says that vaccination is voluntary.
                    Shaw, did something change in an hour, and they separated again?
                  2. l7yzo
                    l7yzo 14 December 2021 19: 11
                    -10
                    The president is not an executive. "According to Article 80 of the Basic Law, the President of Russia has the status of a" head of state ", a" guarantor "of the constitution, human and civil rights and freedoms. ; legislative - Federal Assembly; judicial - courts). "
                    1. Charlie
                      Charlie 16 December 2021 13: 32
                      +2
                      The president in Russia gravitates towards the executive branch, but has the right to initiate legislation. Can submit draft laws to the lower house, also issues decrees and orders
                2. Dimy4
                  Dimy4 14 December 2021 10: 54
                  +5
                  Medvedev's and Putin's, the battle of the towers

                  The battle of the right hand with the left heel, to the question of who is in charge.
                  1. Keer
                    Keer 14 December 2021 23: 14
                    0
                    Fighting Nanai Boys.
                3. tolmachiev51
                  tolmachiev51 15 December 2021 03: 24
                  -2
                  It seems to him that the vaccination on the brains really influenced him !!!
              2. businessv
                businessv 14 December 2021 17: 03
                +18
                Quote: Boris55
                On this issue, the Duma took the side of the president, who constantly says that vaccination is voluntary. GKChP-2.0 lost this battle, but the Medvedevskys are still gorging on something.
                The President once said that while he is in power, the retirement age will also not rise, so the Duma, in my opinion, does not care what he says. Well, about the GKChP they amused! You indirectly called the little Medvedev involved in this organization, which was trying to keep the Union intact ... Medvedev and the State Emergency Committee! Funny! smile
              3. victor50
                victor50 14 December 2021 18: 11
                0
                Quote: Boris55
                GKChP-2.0 lost this battle, but the Medvedevskys are still gorging on something.

                Before GKChP-1.0 such a phrase was popular, you may remember: "Boris, you are wrong!" laughing
              4. syndicalist
                syndicalist 15 December 2021 07: 10
                +10
                Quote: Boris55
                but the Medvedevskys are still gorging on something.

                This fairy tale does not work already. About the evil boyars, about the evil Medvedev and the good tsar.
            2. vlad106
              vlad106 19 December 2021 20: 40
              0
              Quote: Dalny V
              The State Duma passed the test. The law on piarkodas will not be adopted
              You have no idea how funny you look in your attempts to clean the dog


              What's going on in the country?
              And already in the army?
          2. ALARI
            ALARI 14 December 2021 08: 16
            +52
            The Duma became popular:
            The State Duma rejected a bill on annual payments for schoolchildren of 10 thousand rubles. In mid-November, State Duma deputies approved a bill postponing until January 1, 2025, the entry into force of the law "On the basic cost of the necessary social set" - DUMANASH. And how is the new police law, everyone is happy?
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 14 December 2021 08: 44
              -35
              Quote: ALARI
              The State Duma rejects the bill on annual payments for schoolchildren in 10 thousand rubles

              Whose initiative was this - Mironova? Why 10, not 100? laughing
              1. ALARI
                ALARI 14 December 2021 08: 51
                -3
                The initiative was the president. The President said 10 why not 100-stranger's soul of darkness.
              2. Ross xnumx
                Ross xnumx 14 December 2021 13: 16
                +6
                Quote: Boris55
                Whose initiative was this - Mironova?

                You would sometimes wonder where and what comes from:
                Recall Russian President Vladimir Putin in his message to the Federal Assembly on April 21 appointed payments in the amount of 10 thousand rubles in support of the population. More than 204 billion rubles have been allocated for these purposes.

                fool
          3. vadimtt
            vadimtt 14 December 2021 08: 54
            +21
            Yes, they themselves came up with the curcodes, they themselves canceled (... temporarily) - victory! Tin is shorter wassat
          4. Hlavaty
            Hlavaty 14 December 2021 12: 37
            +49
            Quote: Boris55
            The State Duma passed the test. The law on piarkodas will not be adopted.


            Listen, are you not ashamed to talk about the topic of the article so frankly?
            What have your kuarkodes got to do with it ?! Is there an article about this? !!


            If you have nothing to say on the topic of the article, then you better shut up. And then others, easy-going, immediately fell for your provocation and arranged a flame on several screens, completely irrelevant to the topic of the article.
            1. Alexander I
              Alexander I 14 December 2021 16: 55
              +16
              The only sensible comment
            2. zloybond
              zloybond 14 December 2021 23: 09
              +12
              I agree completely off-topic chatter has risen. An article about the army - we decided to technically blur the topic (((
              1. syndicalist
                syndicalist 15 December 2021 07: 20
                +4
                There is undoubtedly some pollution, but, at the same time, it is impossible to consider the problems of the army in isolation from the problems of the whole country. The author of the article, by the way, also tries to restrict himself to the level of individual districts, not understanding or not wanting to notice the more global level of the problem, starting from the very top of the state pyramid.
                1. Michael HORNET
                  Michael HORNET 16 December 2021 21: 54
                  0
                  Unfortunately, everything is correctly described by the author. If a war happens, it will happen exactly as described in Anisimov's book "The Day Before the Day After Tomorrow." By the way, I recommend. At the same time, the author does not like the soul in the current leadership, but the Toad Lera, who has already died, is to blame for the entire failure.
          5. victor50
            victor50 14 December 2021 18: 08
            +5
            Quote: Boris55
            The Duma became ours.

            Yours ?! laughing
          6. would
            would 14 December 2021 18: 41
            +6
            The law on piarkodas will not be adopted.


            Before writing something, you need to check. In total, there were two laws under consideration on QR codes: On QR codes in transport and on QR codes when visiting public places, etc. Only the first one was sent for revision and this will have little effect, since few people travel by train and fly by airplane, but the second one has not been sent anywhere and it will most likely be accepted and will affect the life of every Russian.
          7. Streamil
            Streamil 16 December 2021 00: 11
            +8
            Yeah, she became so popular that she rejected the proposal of Glazkova (Communist Party of the Russian Federation) to submit for consideration a draft law prohibiting the Governors and Heads of the Republics to have property abroad.
            As well as another bill linking the salary of deputies of local legislative assemblies with the average salary of the region, and deputies of the state Duma with the average salary in Russia
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 14 December 2021 08: 42
          +3
          It remains only to understand what values, for example, are protected by the American army, they also have capitalism there, and this does not prevent the American soldiers from damaging everyone whom Mr. President shows.
          1. ivan2022
            ivan2022 14 December 2021 09: 40
            +5
            This one ... The Americans have a kind gentleman, but they still can't come to us ... ... He's not coming ...
          2. Keyser soze
            Keyser soze 14 December 2021 10: 57
            +28
            It remains only to understand what values, for example, are protected by the American army,


            It's definitely simple - the American way of life, a democratic state, the most developed power in the world, American interests, a shining city on a hill, and so on. But we must not forget that they have the richest population and working capitalism, while you have non-royal power and neo-feudalism.
            1. AllXVahhaB
              AllXVahhaB 14 December 2021 14: 21
              -1
              Quote: Keyser Soze
              that they have the richest population and working capitalism

              The richest population is about the 1% of the super-rich? Is working capitalism the Fed drawing money? Well then yes ...
            2. Uncle Vanya Susanin
              Uncle Vanya Susanin 14 December 2021 14: 52
              +2
              But we must not forget that they have the richest population and working capitalism

              Don't be ridiculous, 46 million are below the poverty line, and the Gini index is higher than in Russia, straight feudalism with a human face laughing
              1. Dartik
                Dartik 14 December 2021 23: 28
                +5
                And the HDI? Big Mac index? GDP per capita? Or the most common one - how much gasoline can the same American and Russian buy on a Wed salary, eh? And the Gini index does not show in reality how the average peasant lives. Indeed, in the United States, all the money of the World is stuck and almost all the richest people are from there.
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. zenion
              zenion 14 December 2021 18: 34
              +2
              Keyser Soze. The American army is not a recruitment, it is an army that works for money, as the Swiss once had the king's guards at every court. This does not apply to Russia, due to its temporary existence. This article is very reminiscent of the Austrian army during the First World War, as there hamsters in general's epaulettes robbed soldiers, prepared supplies for after the war. The American soldiery, if they did not receive something, that for this day they should not go under the bullets, but the Russian slaves will be sent and driven with machine guns. The authorities are trying to steal more and escape to their enemies. Or maybe they will achieve the posts of governors under the occupation power.
              1. Evgeny Ivanov_5
                Evgeny Ivanov_5 14 December 2021 22: 46
                -4
                I especially liked about the temporary existence of Russia. Five points. I support.
                1. Motorist
                  Motorist 14 December 2021 23: 44
                  +5
                  Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
                  I especially liked about the temporary existence of Russia. Five points. I support.

                  That yes, comrades joke. Not to make out - where are sarcasms, ironies, hyperbolas, parabolas and other ellipses ... I do not rate the comments just in case.
              2. AllXVahhaB
                AllXVahhaB 16 December 2021 16: 29
                -2
                Quote: zenion
                and Russian slaves will be sent and driven by machine guns.

                Yes, no, noneshnie detachments with flamethrowers! You are behind the times ...
              3. napalm
                napalm 18 December 2021 14: 37
                0
                And the Prussian army during the Napoleonic wars.
          3. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 14 December 2021 11: 36
            +40
            Yes, the same values, in dollars. Holders of these values ​​understand that the army must be strong and motivated. As far as I remember, after serving in the American army, higher education can be obtained for the state. get an account and citizenship. The local capitalists hold on very tightly to their capital and do not miss the opportunity to rob others, this is where their army helps them.
            The Russian army, it seems, should do the same. Only now I can’t believe that he can. And Skomorokhov's article has nothing to do with it, I've seen enough myself. And the logic works that with a collapsed economy there can be no strong army, at least in technical terms. It is better to keep silent about motivation, like about a dead man.
            1. AllXVahhaB
              AllXVahhaB 16 December 2021 16: 38
              -2
              Quote: AKuzenka
              As far as I remember, after serving in the American army, higher education can be obtained for the state. get an account and citizenship.


              And here I am watching Hollywood films, so there are American demobilization from John Rambo to the recent "Army of the Dead" ... so they are either homeless, or (at best) fry hamburgers in "nauseous" ... And this is the special forces - the army elite. .. Really lie ???
              1. Akuzenka
                Akuzenka 21 December 2021 12: 21
                0
                Are they really lying ???
                Whoever strives for what gets it. And Hollywood ALWAYS lies.
          4. Saladine
            Saladine 14 December 2021 20: 21
            -1
            More precisely the sergeant =)))
        3. Piramidon
          Piramidon 14 December 2021 12: 26
          -36
          Quote: Civil
          all were silent, agreeing with the results.

          And you wanted "Maidan"? Does the example of neighbors teach you nothing?
          1. Sergey Gusak
            Sergey Gusak 15 December 2021 07: 51
            -6
            Judging by the cons, I wanted to.
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 15 December 2021 20: 18
              -9
              Quote: Sergey Gusak
              Judging by the cons, I wanted to.

              Judging by the minuses, today a pan-headed horde rushed to the site on the attack.
              [Center]
              1. AllXVahhaB
                AllXVahhaB 16 December 2021 16: 42
                +5
                Quote: Piramidon
                Judging by the minuses, today a pan-headed horde rushed to the site on the attack.

                How is your collage similar to the illustrations of the Goebbels department depicting the soldiers of the Red Army ... Skopipastili?)))
                1. Elturisto
                  Elturisto 19 December 2021 23: 02
                  +1
                  Yes, it looks like a real granddaughter of Goebbels.
        4. Vadim237
          Vadim237 14 December 2021 15: 27
          -18
          Here on VO they conducted a poll of who voted for whom - in the end, the statistics did not go far from those declared in the media and the government on the elections.
          1. Andobor
            Andobor 14 December 2021 18: 54
            -8
            Quote: Vadim237
            statistics are not far from those declared in the media and the government on the elections

            Ukrainian bot farms are working, so the screeching stands, the West finances all this - everything is clear and understandable.
      2. ROMAN VYSOTSKY
        ROMAN VYSOTSKY 14 December 2021 14: 09
        -20
        Dirty article. Dirty thoughts. As if shit was a fan on the whole army. And in the Soviet army there were extortions and money was paid for business trips to Afghanistan. And for the title it happened. True, rarely. Even now, for the overwhelming majority of officers, the procedure for production and appointments is absolutely free. Those who screw up or are recognized as unpromising pay.
        And everyone will defend the Motherland anyway. And those who did not pay and those who did.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 14 December 2021 15: 35
          -30
          If it were real in the army, as the author described now, in every news every day there would be messages about the detention of the military for bribery, extortion, and so on. And so the experience of dumping slops on objects that he has is rich one size fits all - everything is bad and everything is bad, the rest is not interesting.
        2. zenion
          zenion 14 December 2021 18: 41
          +10
          ROMAN VYSOTSKY. There is a big difference between country, homeland and government. A country is a part of the land within its borders, and any power or homeland can be. When the authorities run into nonsense, they begin to call themselves Motherland, although it is worse than a stepmother, who will defend what was mocked at the people. It burns with a clear flame. Burn, burn clearly, whatever goes out. You have forgotten what happened to your homeland after the revolution, the noble houses burned along with the nobles. Only the Bolsheviks understood what the people needed and for the people. And these immediately abandoned 14 republics, because they cannot govern one. What care for the people such care will be for the stepmother, Baba Yaga.
          1. ROMAN VYSOTSKY
            ROMAN VYSOTSKY 14 December 2021 22: 46
            -6
            zenion
            You've got a mess in your head, dear. And not even porridge, but shit. If Motherland is a stepmother for you, then what are you doing in your Motherland? Emigrate or shoot yourself.
            1. zenion
              zenion 15 December 2021 16: 44
              +10
              You are not aware that such a Motherland is. Kozma Prutkov has this: An excessive rich man who does not help the poor is like a hefty nurse, sucking his own breast with appetite at the cradle of a starving child. Do you want to call it home? This is not only a stepmother for me, but also a stepmother for those who are forced to protect her breasts. Roma you shouldn't shoot, but you should get ready for the trip. When the government feels that a kyrdyk can come to it, then it begins to call itself a homeland. During the Great Patriotic War, the power was the Motherland Mother. Drinker and wet nurse. And not the destroyer and the robber, which is now
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 21 December 2021 16: 14
                +2
                Quote: zenion
                You do not know that such a Motherland ...

                You are confusing concepts, what you call the Motherland is called the state.
                Quote: zenion
                and the power or homeland can be any.

                So it was necessary to write, "and the power or the state can be anything." In principle, I agree with you, but the Motherland is a river next to my house, a forest where I pick mushrooms, mountains, etc., and what is robbing us today is not the Motherland, it is the state.
                1. zenion
                  zenion 21 December 2021 16: 16
                  -1
                  Then, according to you, the most accurate word for the homeland is maternity hospital. And the place where you live is the country. And the country can be called in different ways, depending on the management. Motherland. But with a "skillful" government, they can turn her into a stepmother who does not love her children. I lived a lot, and saw what happens to children when they have a stepmother instead of a mother. She herself could not give birth and did not like these. When everyone graduated from school, they scattered and had no relationship with her. She complained to everyone, I fed them, gave them an education, but they don't want to know me. Everyone agreed with her, and everyone knew how happy they were that they could leave her.
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 21 December 2021 16: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: zenion
                    When, in your opinion, the most accurate word for the homeland is maternity hospital.

                    You see, the word Motherland has no scientific definition. rather, they are categories of personal perception. They have scientific definitions, categories of country and state. What you wrote is true about the state.
        3. AllXVahhaB
          AllXVahhaB 16 December 2021 16: 45
          +4
          Quote: ROMAN VYSOTSKY
          Dirty article. Dirty thoughts. As if shit was a fan on the whole army. And in the Soviet army there were extortions and money was paid for business trips to Afghanistan. And for the title it happened. True, rarely. Even now, for the overwhelming majority of officers, the procedure for production and appointments is absolutely free. Those who screw up or are recognized as unpromising pay.
          And everyone will defend the Motherland anyway. And those who did not pay and those who did.

          My classmate has risen to the rank of major, is retiring (46 years old) ... Why, I ask, is not underground? Major, answers, the ceiling to which everyone can reach himself! And then only someone's protege, only "out of the cage" ...
      3. dauria
        dauria 14 December 2021 14: 15
        +7
        After a long ban, it is always necessary to start with Roman Skomorokhov

        Come on, him ... "They will, they will not fight." The main question is whether they know how to fight or not. To listen to Skomorokhov, the company commander will not be able to hold the defense at a high-rise, and the front commander has no idea how he will cross the Dnieper.
        What the hell are ballerinas sitting there instead of regular military men? Or do they not burn all the diesel fuel on the drills, but push it "to the left"?
        Such a thing as combat readiness cannot be assessed from the outside. It is necessary to climb such a high hummock from the very bottom, but climb from the inside. Yes, cook in this porridge with stripes. And not shout from your trench "Everyone kirdyk, no one can do anything."
        Maybe "kirdyk". But it is certainly not for Skomorokhov to judge this. The bump is too small. Not to see a damn thing from her.
        1. Finches
          Finches 14 December 2021 14: 23
          +11
          So with us, traditionally, everyone imagines himself to be a strategist, seeing the battle from the side ... At least once and too hypertrophied, even painfully black, somewhere, but I think Roman is sincerely worried when he writes!
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Finches
              Finches 14 December 2021 15: 34
              +4
              In principle, everything is correct. I need to call my friends, some are already like me, retired, and there are those who are in general positions, pulling the army strap ..., ask them, "ghouls", how they came to such a life! laughing
        2. zenion
          zenion 14 December 2021 18: 49
          -6
          dauria. Here is a Crimean daughter of an officer. Do you remember how soldiers defended Crimea during the Crimean War? How quickly they surrendered the Crimea for the second time, for the reason that not only the captains, but also the generals, did not know how to fight. Not that the comrades, the communist army did not know where to go, but how many traitors there were in Ukraine - you cannot count. Whom it can command when the company is waiting for an opportunity to shoot it. Schweik, during the attack, the commander jumped out of the trench and suddenly realized that he would be shot for his bullying. He began to whistle to rebuff the attack, but was shot. The soldiers said that when he began to whistle for retreat, everyone almost covered themselves with laughter. There are people capable of presenting the stupidest thing in the form of the present. You think that the soldiers under his command will close his chest, this accomplice of the noblemen of the feudal lords.
        3. Polar
          Polar 14 December 2021 23: 20
          +6
          No need to climb any bump for this. In our unit, which was considered exemplary, everyone knew about the beginning of "unexpected" exercises in advance. An hour before the alarm, everyone was raised, everyone took apart weapons in the room and sat on their beds, waiting to run out to the parade ground in time. As a result, several vehicles (trucks, armored personnel carriers) could not leave the park and leave - their batteries were being charged in the battery room.

          The medical kits in the companies were all sealed with a wax seal, so that God forbid someone would climb in and use; the inspector will have nothing to show.

          I saw all this and participated in everything, being a private in the military service. Back in the USSR, by the way, at the end of the 80s.

          I think, I hope - well, it’s impossible to get any worse. Now, maybe some real exercises are being conducted. They are trying to do some real things. I argue only on the principle that no matter how hard you try, it is already difficult to make things worse.
          1. Sergey Gusak
            Sergey Gusak 15 December 2021 07: 58
            0
            in 2005-2007 a similar situation was and, judging by the further service in the Ministry of Emergencies, the same garbage. Everyone knows about sudden checks in advance, even the inspector knows that we know. It's just such a tradition, ceremonial, so to speak.
      4. alystan
        alystan 14 December 2021 16: 17
        -15
        He probably bases his conclusions on the pearls of the chief navigator of all Soviet aviation, hereditary in the second generation of a warrior and the main enemy of all political officers! laughing
        1. Vladimir Mashkov
          Vladimir Mashkov 15 December 2021 22: 44
          -2
          Quote: alystan
          He probably bases his conclusions on the pearls of the chief navigator of all Soviet aviation, hereditary in the second generation of a warrior and the main enemy of all political officers! laughing

          Here! And I really thought that it seemed to me alone. Only Roman is very much mistaken about the "fighter against corruption". Some strange "fighter" who, in HIS article "About flight work", writes: "At the present time there is no place for any romance, admission to the flight school is a serious business. That's right. I myself wrote in the lists of those applicants who must be admitted to the flight school. " And the frequent mentions about such a "struggle" in the stories of a "fellow lieutenant colonel" who recently, only 17 years ago, left the ranks of the army (who got acquainted with the work of the "fighter" - knows what I am writing about)? This "fighter" VERY resembles those "opponents of criminality and corruption", about whom "Argumenty i Fakty" wrote about in the late 80s, reporting on the results of the poll. To the question "How do you feel about pulling and corruption?" 90% answered “Negative”. And to the question "Do you yourself use pull?" 75% answered "Yes". laughing
      5. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 15 December 2021 13: 21
        0
        Quote: Finches
        After a long ban, it is always necessary to start with Roman Skomorokhov in order to immediately receive communion ... I especially liked that there was only one decent officer in the Russian army, and that Zolotarev! And with his departure, a completely hopeless haze of total despair came! laughing

        Do not distort. It says that there are honest officers in the army.
      6. Russian soldier
        Russian soldier April 21 2022 15: 14
        0
        Roman mu...k and moral.....
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 14 December 2021 07: 26
      -31
      Quote: Dimy4
      "For Putin and the oligarchs", no one has any desire to fight.

      State - this is a product of the crowd - "elitism". As long as the state - the crowd - exists, "elitism" is objective.

      State is a system for the survival of the people without losing their cultural identity.

      War is a set of measures aimed at seizing other people's natural, energy and human resources.

      They are fighting for mom, dad, children and loved ones - for the Motherland.

      When the army begins to take an active part in the political life of the country, it always results in a civil war. The task of the army is to protect the state from external enemies, regardless of the political structure of the state.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 14 December 2021 08: 08
        -3
        Quote: Boris55
        When the army begins to take an active part in the political life of the country, it always results in a civil war. The task of the army is to protect the state from external enemies, regardless of the political structure of the state

        in the morning, for some reason, my voice takes on double strength.
        so from me ++

        discontent is, was and will be
        especially under capitalism
        we ourselves decide what for us - God forbid - to fight or not to fight.
        it is a matter of conscience and duty.
        1. your1970
          your1970 14 December 2021 09: 42
          -23
          Quote: Flood
          discontent is, was and will be
          especially under capitalism
          we ourselves decide what for us - God forbid - to fight or not to fight.

          In Afghanistan, youngsters were robbed by everyone (both conscripts and officers) - checks, epps !!! - nevertheless, they fought and did not shoot at their backs ...
          To transfer from Kushka anywhere, even for Crooked Lake - the officers before the withdrawal paid 10 rubles, and after 000 - but already checks.
          Transfer to GSVG BEFORE withdrawal cost 50 belay rubles or two 3 liter cans of "product" lol
          About the crazy sale of everything and everyone after the withdrawal is too anecdotal.
          For example, I sold 2 Urals CIATIM to the Turkmens as beef stew belay
          Cartridges, kunga, walkie-talkies, blankets, pea jackets, unaccounted for captured weapons, beds, in general, were sold by the entire division to the right ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 14 December 2021 11: 40
            +23
            Yes, you are a hardened urka, according to your words.
            1. your1970
              your1970 14 December 2021 16: 37
              -1
              God forbid belay !!!
              Here is one of the armed men (I don’t remember part of the last name) in the division, yes ..
              I sold machine-gun cartridges to the Turkmens - for a ruble per cartridge - 60 cartridges. I don't know if they caught it or not. They just read an order to tighten control and responsibility for this ...
              But the soldiers basically changed everything for a drink ...
          3. Serge-667
            Serge-667 14 December 2021 19: 40
            +9
            Where did a soldier get 80 rubles in the 50s? Can you confuse something with zeros?
            And for two Urals, a guaranteed tribunal. If only not for spare parts ..
            1. your1970
              your1970 14 December 2021 20: 42
              +3
              Quote: Serge-667
              Where did the soldier get 80 rubles in the 50s?

              Not in the abstract 80s - but in specific period my conscript there 1988-1990
              I even showed you where the money came from belay
              Quote: your1970
              or two 3 liter cans of "product"

              A can of Afghan heroin "999" cost 20 rubles, after the withdrawal - the price dropped to 000. There was an excess ... Buyers - just whistle ...
              But this is the officer corps - I have not heard from the soldiers that such volumes were traded.
              But mostly
              Quote: your1970
              Cartridges, kunga, walkie-talkies, blankets, pea jackets, unaccounted for captured weapons, beds, in general, were sold by the entire division to the right ...

              Quote: Serge-667
              And for two Urals, a guaranteed tribunal. If only not for spare parts ..

              I sold CIATIM artillery loaded in 2 Urals - NOT the Urals themselves ... banks are exactly the same as large cans of stew

              The Urals were sold by the commanders of the units - write it off, sort it out like (sorting out then there was apparently a gold mine), find a buyer ...
              The Turkmens wanted mainly GAZ-66 ...
              Everything will be the same in Russia - a little later when the troops are withdrawn from the GSVG ...

              Tribunal, yeah, yeah ...
              1. Serge-667
                Serge-667 14 December 2021 20: 49
                +8
                I sold CIATIM artillery

                And here, in 95, we defended our boat with machine guns from those who wanted to profit in the plant ..
                1. your1970
                  your1970 14 December 2021 22: 42
                  +1
                  You had a slightly different situation lol lol
                  My task was to take him to the landfill and bury him out of sight of the authorities. He was decommissioned back in Afghanistan ...
                  Therefore, my conscience is absolutely clear in this matter. lol lol
          4. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 15 December 2021 13: 24
            +1
            Quote: your1970
            Quote: Flood
            discontent is, was and will be
            especially under capitalism
            we ourselves decide what for us - God forbid - to fight or not to fight.

            In Afghanistan, youngsters were robbed by everyone (both conscripts and officers) - checks, epps !!! - nevertheless, they fought and did not shoot at their backs ...
            To transfer from Kushka anywhere, even for Crooked Lake - the officers before the withdrawal paid 10 rubles, and after 000 - but already checks.
            Transfer to GSVG BEFORE withdrawal cost 50 belay rubles or two 3 liter cans of "product" lol
            About the crazy sale of everything and everyone after the withdrawal is too anecdotal.
            For example, I sold 2 Urals CIATIM to the Turkmens as beef stew belay
            Cartridges, kunga, walkie-talkies, blankets, pea jackets, unaccounted for captured weapons, beds, in general, were sold by the entire division to the right ...

            Actually, now it's not the 90s in the yard.
            1. your1970
              your1970 15 December 2021 14: 06
              -1
              I wrote about what happened in the SA, that even then there was a lot of corruption in the army.
              Judging by the statn Nothing has changed globally
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. zenion
          zenion 14 December 2021 18: 57
          +2
          Navodlom. The oldest expression in the whole world is that you reap what you plant. You plant the wind, you reap the storm. What will be the attitude towards the people, the same will be the answer. It was not for nothing that they created a gendarmerie in Russia, but they named it differently. These are troops for war with the people. There will be a gendarmerie, this is an army.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 14 December 2021 19: 06
            +4
            Quote: zenion
            There is a gendarmerie, there will be a confrontation, this is an army

            did not understand
            in the coming revolution, do you rely on the army?
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 15 December 2021 10: 12
              -2
              Quote: Flood
              in the coming revolution

              When is it expected? laughing
          2. your1970
            your1970 14 December 2021 22: 48
            +2
            Quote: zenion
            What will be the attitude towards the people, the same will be the answer. It was not for nothing that they created a gendarmerie in Russia, but they named it differently. These are troops for war with the people.

            Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR, not? OMSDON named after Dzerzhinsky in the USSR, apparently against the Portuguese or Negroes was supposed to be used?
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 15 December 2021 13: 28
              +1
              Quote: your1970
              Quote: zenion
              What will be the attitude towards the people, the same will be the answer. It was not for nothing that they created a gendarmerie in Russia, but they named it differently. These are troops for war with the people.

              Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR, not? OMSDON named after Dzerzhinsky in the USSR, apparently against the Portuguese or Negroes was supposed to be used?

              The US National Guard wasn’t? There were dozens of international gangs in the USSR. And the crime was not much less than in the United States.
              1. your1970
                your1970 15 December 2021 14: 15
                -2
                Quote: Pilat2009
                US National Guard not?

                Are you ready now to equate the United States, which even used military aircraft against Of their citizens and military forces of the USSR? !!!!
                "Orrrriganally" (c)

                Quote: Pilat2009
                There were dozens of interethnic races in the USSR
                right in Moscow ???? !!!
            2. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov 15 December 2021 22: 54
              0
              Quote: your1970
              OMSDON named after Dzerzhinsky in the USSR, apparently against the Portuguese or Negroes was supposed to be used?

              My father began his service at OMSDON in 1936. NEVER did not hear from him NOT ONE words about participation in repressions, speeches against the Soviet people. NEVER! They guarded the Kremlin, the government, the deputies - there were. But there was NO action against the Soviet people! No need to lie and undeservedly insult people!
              1. your1970
                your1970 15 December 2021 23: 17
                +1
                Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                No need to lie and undeservedly insult people!

                Remember the name ??? Internal Troops of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs !!!
                For you personally - NOT Troops against NATO or Honduras ... Internal ...
                And no matter what your dad says - open the Combat Manual of BB and read ...
                They kind of guarded the Kremlin, yeah ... OMSDON was never engaged in security - for this, the KGB was with its own Directorate ...
                Against whom in 1962 year adopted the explosives rubber batons? against NATO?
                1. Vladimir Mashkov
                  Vladimir Mashkov 16 December 2021 17: 02
                  -2
                  Quote: your1970
                  Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                  No need to lie and undeservedly insult people!

                  Remember the name ??? Internal Troops of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs !!!
                  For you personally - NOT Troops against NATO or Honduras ... Internal ...
                  And no matter what your dad says - open the Combat Manual of BB and read ...
                  They kind of guarded the Kremlin, yeah ... OMSDON was never engaged in security - for this, the KGB was with its own Directorate ...
                  Against whom in 1962 year adopted the explosives rubber batons? against NATO?

                  Internal troops have long existed not only in Russia, but also in many countries of the world. They are called differently, have a different composition and number, but the essence and goals are the same: protection of the constitutional order, maintenance of public order and protection of the majority of law-abiding citizens, the country FROM minority of aggressive radicals, provocateurs, criminals (thieves including), trying to provoke, cause riots and, having caused a mess in the country, break through to power and seize it. The actions of the Russian explosives in comparison with the American, French, German explosives are extremely peaceful and humane: weapons are not used (even more so - to defeat), many cruel but effective methods and means, arrests are carried out only for obvious violators, attempts are always made to talk to the senses of the Buzoters. provocateurs. NORMAL people are not afraid of law enforcement officers, and for criminals they are a thunderstorm, which is why all violators hate the internal troops.

                  As for the elite OMSDON, which operates mainly in Moscow and the Moscow region, in 1936-1939 it was engaged in just the protection and protection of only important state facilities, because then there were simply not so many ... nooks and ... tsev, they did not behave so cheeky and impudent as it is now. And my father can no longer answer them, it is necessary, no matter how disgusting it is to communicate with them, to answer them to me.
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 16 December 2021 17: 53
                    0
                    Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                    no matter how disgusting it is to communicate with them, to answer them to me.

                    So do not communicate ... no one grabbed ...
                    And yes - if in the heat of indignation they did not notice - I meant AFTER war years. I did not notice that you have information from the 1930s ..
                    In the DO the war years in Moscow, even in theory, there could be
                    Quote: Pilat2009
                    The USSR had a lot of interethnic trolleys
                    and rallies of protest against Soviet power.
                    But after the war, everything changed a little.
      2. Mar.Tirah
        Mar.Tirah 14 December 2021 08: 25
        +18
        Quote: Boris55
        When the army begins to take an active part in the political life of the country, it always results in a civil war.

        You turned it down my friend. Coups, coups on the example of Bnanov republics are yes, but not civil war. Wars are arranged by politicians, and the military is already doing a bloody deed for them. The State Emergency Committee showed this great, there was no man devoted to the Bolsheviks and did not destroy the reptiles who had time to let roots in the Kremlin, taking responsibility for the country like Lenin ... But on the topic I'm more worried about who the command of the RF Armed Forces consists of and it becomes scary for this very army when I see civilian deputy defense ministers in female guise and specialists without military education. a special one for them was introduced-black like that of the national guard. Is it that they hatched from one nest ????
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 14 December 2021 08: 35
          -34
          Quote: Mar. Tira
          who the command of the RF Armed Forces consists of and it becomes scary for this very army when I see civilian deputy defense ministers in female guise

          I don't see anything reprehensible in this. It has long been known that a woman most accurately, scrupulously, performs the task. As performers, they are perfect. (no wonder the suicide bombers are mostly women). For planning and setting tasks - this is the right for the men.
          1. NDR-791
            NDR-791 14 December 2021 09: 20
            +9
            Quote: Boris55
            It has long been known that a woman most accurately, scrupulously, performs the task.

            If we take for the truth what is written in the article, then women are just in their place. Roll back and saw as high quality as possible, and the task is set by men wassat
            1. Serge-667
              Serge-667 14 December 2021 19: 43
              +6
              Well, actually, yes. Serdyukov's friend performed everything very clearly. And she took the blame. Onotole, like a true gentleman, later even got married. A lapota worthy of the pen of Shakespeare.
          2. Mar.Tirah
            Mar.Tirah 14 December 2021 09: 48
            +20
            Quote: Boris55
            It has long been known that a woman most accurately, scrupulously, performs the task.

            Well, of course !!!!! Who would have doubted, especially Vasilyeva. We know what they are doing in the army and in the coastal fleet ....... I will not talk about everyone, but only that about a high rank.lol goodIn general, everything is according to Burunov.
      3. paul3390
        paul3390 14 December 2021 08: 29
        +35
        They are fighting for mom, dad, children and loved ones - for the Motherland.

        Let's admit. Well, okay - will you fight for those who have done very badly to mom, dad, children and loved ones for 30 years? Who is spreading rot and robbing them? And who is selling the Motherland left and right?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 14 December 2021 08: 40
          -32
          The state is a system for the survival of the people without losing their cultural identity.
          This is the preservation of the territory, the right to speak the native language, etc. It is necessary to fight for this, and 30 years and 100 years is a moment for history.
          1. NDR-791
            NDR-791 14 December 2021 09: 26
            +7
            Quote: Boris55
            The state is a system for the survival of the people without losing their cultural identity.
            This is the preservation of the territory, the right to speak the native language, etc. It is necessary to fight for this, but 30 years and 100 years is a moment for history.

            This is just one of the definitions that currently fit your point of view. There are dozens of definitions of the concept of the state. For me, for example, as a realist, a closer to reality is more suitable:
            STATE, -a, cf. The political organization of society, headed by the government and its organs, with the help of which the ruling class exercises its power, ensures the protection of the existing order and the suppression of class opponents, as well as a country with such a political organization.
            1. your1970
              your1970 14 December 2021 11: 20
              -10
              Quote: NDR-791
              the ruling class exercises its power,

              The dominant class before industrialization was the peasantry in the USSR, there were simply many times more of it ...
              Nevertheless, they talked about the dominant role of the proletariat - and ALL power was with URBAN the proletariat
              1. NDR-791
                NDR-791 14 December 2021 11: 23
                +4
                Quote: your1970
                The dominant class before industrialization was the peasantry in the USSR.

                And this definition is not about "then." It about now.
              2. AllXVahhaB
                AllXVahhaB 14 December 2021 14: 35
                +13
                Quote: your1970
                Quote: NDR-791
                the ruling class exercises its power,

                The dominant class before industrialization was the peasantry in the USSR, there were simply many times more of it ...
                Nevertheless, they talked about the dominant role of the proletariat - and ALL power was with URBAN the proletariat

                Who told you such nonsense that the ruling class is the one that is bigger?
                1. your1970
                  your1970 14 December 2021 16: 58
                  -5
                  Quote: AllXVahhaB
                  Who told you such nonsense that the ruling class is the one that is bigger?

                  In Ukraine, the Banderaites are now in power - are they the ruling class?
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 15 December 2021 13: 42
                    +3
                    Quote: your1970
                    In Ukraine, the Banderaites are now in power - are they the ruling class?

                    Bandera are not a class at all, they are the most ordinary Nazis and these individuals belong to different classes of society. And not their power there, but the power of the oligarchy, which uses the Nazis in their own interests. Who is funding these Nazis?
                  2. AllXVahhaB
                    AllXVahhaB 15 December 2021 17: 28
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    In Ukraine, the Banderaites are now in power - are they the ruling class?

                    1970 in your nickname is the year of birth? Then you went to a Soviet school. Apparently they studied badly (((I will conduct an educational program - in bourgeois society there are only TWO classes !!! These are the owners of the means of production (capillists, bourgeoisie, oligarchy ...) and hired workers (proletariat). There are no more classes !!! In Ukraine, the ruling class is “capital.” The Banderaites (like any Nazis) are nothing more than an instrument in the hands of the ruling class!
              3. Serge-667
                Serge-667 14 December 2021 19: 50
                0
                Nevertheless, they talked about the dominant role of the proletariat


                You are misleading the reader. Apparently deliberately.
                The favorite tactic of the anti-Soviet regime.
                Because:

                Councils of workers, soldiers and peasant deputies, the elected bodies of state power of the Soviet Republic after the victory of the October Revolution of 1917. With the adoption of the decree on the creation of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army on January 15 (28), 1918, they began to be called the Soviets of workers, peasant and Red Army deputies.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 14 December 2021 22: 29
                  +6
                  Quote: Serge-667
                  You are misleading the reader. Apparently deliberately.
                  The favorite tactic of the anti-Soviet regime.

                  Lenin did not try to read ???
                  "The strength of the proletariat in any capitalist country incomparably greater than the proportion of the proletariat in the total population. This is because the proletariat economically dominates the center and nerve of the entire economic system of capitalism, and also because the proletariat, economically and politically, expresses the real interests of the vast majority of working people under capitalism. "
                  And then he wrote a lot about the dominant role of the proletariat and the small-property role of the peasantry.
                  1. Serge-667
                    Serge-667 14 December 2021 23: 06
                    +1
                    Have you tried to delve into the ESSENCE of the article itself? Or, as always, to pull the phrase, and then speculate on its basis?
                    We are talking about the Second International and about the ELECTIONS taking into account bourgeois parliamentarism.
                    The very concept of "proletariat" comes from Marx and Engels.
                    Even the slogan "proletarians of all countries unite" is the slogan of their "Communist Manifesto".
                    Strictly speaking, the proletariat is a private form of the working people, therefore, it is the "Working Class", and not the proletariat.
                    And yet, yes, the working class had more weight in that social order than the illiterate peasantry.
                    And about their small-property habits, this is the tendency of ALL layers.
                    Likewise, in the same article that you cite, Lenin says that In all capitalist countries, along with the proletariat or that part of the proletariat that is aware of its revolutionary tasks and is able to fight for their implementation, there are numerous unconsciously proletarian, semi-proletarian, petty-bourgeois strata of the working masses who follow the bourgeoisie and for bourgeois democracy (including the "socialists" of the Second International),

                    Read more carefully, not just throw in quotes.
                    Otherwise, it reminds me of the traditional:
                    "Learn (naval, artillery, tank, flight, construction, etc.) business in a real way"..
                    Og.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 14 December 2021 23: 51
                      -1
                      Quote: Serge-667
                      And yet, yes, the working class had more weight in that social order than the illiterate peasantry.

                      And how it contradicts mine
                      Quote: your1970
                      - and ALL power was with the URBAN proletariat

                      ????????????????
                      1. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 15 December 2021 00: 11
                        +3
                        When did he have that?
                        You identify the Bolshevik Party and the working class (or rather a part of it called the proletariat), which has never been "power." Not under the interim government, not during the October Revolution, not after.
                      2. your1970
                        your1970 15 December 2021 06: 17
                        -1
                        Quote: Serge-667
                        When did he have that?
                        You identify the Bolshevik Party and the working class (or rather a part of it called the proletariat), which has never been "power."

                        Oops ...
                        First
                        Quote: Serge-667
                        the working class had more weight in that social order than the illiterate peasantry.

                        Then
                        Quote: Serge-667
                        the working class (or rather a part of it called the proletariat), which has never been "power."

                        And the soldiers' deputies ended - as soon as the Civil ended and the army was reduced
                        And who stays in
                        Quote: Serge-667
                        With the adoption of the 15 (28) January 1918 decree on the creation of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army began to be called By the Soviets of Workers ', Peasants' and Red Army Deputies.

                        You crossed out some of them for illiteracy, the working class for the company, the soldiers' deputies themselves fell off ...
                        You already decide
                      3. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 15 December 2021 10: 43
                        +2
                        Well, where did I cross out who?))
                        You complained that the proletarians (workers), being a minority, in contrast to the peasant majority, had a maximum of preferences and this is not fair in relation to the countryside.
                        I'm trying to tell you that the point is not in the "majority" or "minority", but in the bearer of the idea itself, which is in no way correlated with these concepts.
                        The first revolution (I'm talking about 1917), in fact, was made precisely by the bourgeois majority, but, alas, ineptly (and naturally) wasted later. And the Bolsheviks, yes, relied more precisely on the working class than on the peasantry, this is also a fact. But neither the first nor the second, in fact, originally had the power that you are talking about.
                        Let's just say that "Power" was owned by the Bolsheviks from among the representatives of the working class, the peasantry (to a lesser extent) and soldiers (later the Red Army deputies).
                        You do not agree?
              4. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 15 December 2021 13: 44
                +3
                Quote: your1970
                The dominant class before industrialization was the peasantry in the USSR, there were simply many times more of it ...

                The most numerous - yes, but not dominant.
          2. paul3390
            paul3390 14 December 2021 09: 30
            +35
            Well - where is this territory of yours? Compare the Russian Federation with the USSR and the Republic of Ingushetia. In your native language - what is it? Tajik? Azerbaijani? They seem to be the most popular in 20 years. You cannot fight for those who kill our people and our Motherland! It is impenetrable stupidity to lay one's head for the oppressors and traitors. They - well, no better for us Western bourgeois, and maybe even worse - steal as if not into themselves.

            No - you can fight only for one thing - the return of Soviet power. And protecting it from external and internal enemies. For noneshnie thief - fight yourself.
            1. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 14 December 2021 11: 43
              +29
              For noneshnie thief - fight yourself.
              Strongly agree.
            2. Squelcher
              Squelcher 15 December 2021 15: 09
              +1
              So why, when the USSR collapsed, no one went to fight for it? Not a single partisan detachment? By the way, you privatized the state apartment?
          3. The comment was deleted.
            1. AllXVahhaB
              AllXVahhaB 14 December 2021 14: 33
              +1
              Yes ... Indicator of course! And I still remember how the people reacted to Tender May and the Gaza Strip! How massively he burst into Kashpirovsky and charged water under Chumak ... And how he spoke for Mavrodi when MMM was covered)))
              1. Konnick
                Konnick 14 December 2021 14: 47
                +10
                Yes ... Indicator of course! And I still remember how the people reacted to Tender May and the Gaza Strip! How massively he burst into Kashpirovsky and charged water under Chumak ... And how he spoke for Mavrodi when MMM was covered)))

                And how many such "believers" are there? Therefore, the election results are not surprising. Moreover, there are commentators who threaten to give their lives for Putin, but not for the Motherland.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 14 December 2021 08: 42
          -41
          They will fight for Putin, not for your demagoguery.
        3. Piramidon
          Piramidon 15 December 2021 10: 15
          -1
          Quote: paul3390
          Will you fight for those who have done very badly to mom, dad, children and loved ones for 30 years?

          Do they have a mom and dad to fight for them?
        4. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 15 December 2021 11: 20
          0
          Quote: paul3390
          Let's admit. Well, okay - will you fight for those who have done very badly to mom, dad, children and loved ones for 30 years? Who is spreading rot and robbing them? And who is selling the Motherland left and right?

          everyone here is missing the inner reason, the people are rotten! (you can minus) it is very easy to blame everything on the bad, corrupt and thieving government, but who chose it? say fraudulent? but they are based on a total non-participation in the elections. Who is for the truth? several people both accuse and throw mud at them as marginals who believe in a global conspiracy .... here's how Roman Skomorokhov writes that sergeants are bribe-takers and hazing is flourishing, but what about the people, did the evil corrupt general make all the sergeants be grandfathers? makes you extort bribes from majors and colonels? the problem of the three revolutions and betrayal of 1991 is that the people worship the golden calf, those who are poor envy the rich, that's all, but the poor themselves worship the golden calf even more than the rich, they are offended that they do not steal more than anyone else, and here is the discontent ... but they are also a part of this system, and they like this order in itself, they just wanted to be on top, but it didn’t work ..... here we are being robbed by the IMF, and who betrayed their Motherland in 1991? the people themselves, he wanted more dollars, and he betrayed his homeland ... the worship of the dollar! and they are printed in the FRS, which means we serve the FRS ... and betrayal of the Motherland is a flower (do not be surprised) but how do you kill your own children for the sake of the dollar, but it is massive, 3 million Russians a year. (covered with false fabrications about the fact that we will have to live poorer, that is, have less dollars if we give birth) ..... and an even deeper reason for the mass madness is the rejection of Faith in God, and these follies cannot be covered up by the atheistic power of the Bolsheviks, already. but it continues voluntarily, and if the people are massively insane, what kind of prosperity do you expect? it will not be for you!

          7 And the Lord said to Moses, Make haste to get down (from here), for your people are corrupted, which you brought out of the land of Egypt. 8 Soon they turned aside from the way which I commanded them: they made themselves a molded calf and worshiped him, and sacrificed to him and said, "Behold, your God, Israel, who brought you out of the land of Egypt!" 9 And the Lord said to Moses: I see this people, and, behold, they are a stiff-necked people; 10 So leave me alone, that my anger may be kindled against them, and I will consume them.
          1. alekseykabanets
            alekseykabanets 15 December 2021 14: 02
            +4
            Quote: vladimir1155
            people are rotten!

            The people cannot be rotten or beautiful. The consciousness of the people is a product of the dominant economic formation. "Being determines consciousness" K. Marx.
            Quote: vladimir1155
            it is very simple to blame everything on the corrupt, corrupt and thieving government, and who chose it? say fraudulent? but they are based on a total non-participation in the elections.

            "If anything depended on the elections, we would not be allowed to participate in them." these words are attributed to M. Twain. Tell yourself what is the use of elections for the people if there is online voting that cannot be verified?
            Quote: vladimir1155
            ..... that the people worship the golden calf, those who are poor envy the rich, that's all, but the poor themselves worship the golden calf even more than the rich, they are offended that they are not the ones who steal more than anyone else and that is the discontent ...

            You have strange ideas about social justice.
            Quote: vladimir1155
            ..... and an even deeper reason for the mass insanity is the rejection of Faith in God, and these insanities cannot be covered up by the atheistic power of the Bolsheviks

            Well, now your government is building three churches a day, and closes schools and hospitals, that it was better for the people to live than under the atheistic USSR?
            Quote: vladimir1155
            7 And the Lord said to Moses, Make haste to get down (from here), for your people are corrupted, which you brought out of the land of Egypt. 8 Soon they turned aside from the way which I commanded them: they made themselves a molded calf and worshiped him, and sacrificed to him and said, "Behold, your God, Israel, who brought you out of the land of Egypt!" 9 And the Lord said to Moses: I see this people, and, behold, they are a stiff-necked people; 10 So leave me alone, that my anger may be kindled against them, and I will consume them.

            You would go to the Savior with similar statements. I can dig for you so many quotes from the Old Testament that fall under the article on extremism. Do you plan to burn witches, heretics and atheists?
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 15 December 2021 14: 23
              -1
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              The consciousness of the people is a product of the dominant economic formation. "Being determines consciousness" K. Marx.

              a gross lie, if the head is rotten, then they start drinking ... so you get that it is not being but consciousness that determines your being, one having consciousness raises children, the other, according to his consciousness, begins to use drugs and gets his new being .. as a result, so your marx is wrong
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 15 December 2021 14: 36
                +3
                Quote: vladimir1155
                gross lie

                Justify.
                Quote: vladimir1155
                if the head is nasty then they start drinking ...

                Why is your head rotten? In 90% of cases, from economic problems that a person cannot solve and because of weakness goes into drunkenness. With regard to drugs, in the overwhelming majority of cases, it is exactly the same. Synthetic drugs are cheap.
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 15 December 2021 21: 46
                  0
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Why is your head rotten? 90%

                  believers are usually not richer than atheists, piety does not serve for profit, but usually there are no alcoholics or drug addicts among believers, although there are former drug addicts and former alcoholics ... and why? and problems of all kinds, there is repentance, confession, there is prayer and participation in the liturgy = this instrument works, for me personally, the problem of poverty has never been acute, although there was a period when there was not enough money, but I have every problem and I am trying to solve it, and God helps in this, otherwise what to do? but atheists are left with vodka and drugs ...
            2. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 15 December 2021 14: 29
              -1
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Well, now your government is building three churches a day, and closes schools and hospitals, that it was better for the people to live than under the atheistic USSR?

              the government does not build the church, the ROC lives on donations, it is important not to build stone churches, what's the point? if people don't go there? The power is better than the people in some ways, it gives benefits to large families, and the people kill their children, and if the people kill their children, then they have to close hospitals and schools, and entire villages must be liquidated and this process of extinction of the Russian people who left the faith of their fathers began, not in 1991 , it began in 1917, stopped in 1935-53, and from 1953 began to gain momentum again
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 15 December 2021 14: 49
                +5
                Quote: vladimir1155
                the authority of the church does not build

                Yeah, only grants for the construction of churches gives.
                Quote: vladimir1155
                ROC lives on donations

                Yeah. Is the service fee the same donation? Tax breaks?
                Quote: vladimir1155
                The government is better than the people in some ways, it gives benefits to large families and the people kill their children

                I have five children, the child allowance is 200 rubles (after 7 years), this state showered me with a golden rain.
                Quote: vladimir1155
                and if the people kill their children, then they have to close hospitals and schools, and liquidate entire villages

                Have you been to the village for a long time? Take a trip, ask where people work there, how is it that children are taken to school for 2 hours by bus, how to get to the hospital, etc.
                Quote: vladimir1155
                the process of the extinction of the Russian people who left the faith of their fathers

                Well, you are talking nonsense, but before Christianity, what kind of "faith of the fathers" did the Russian people have? Or "is it completely different"?
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 15 December 2021 23: 01
                  0
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  I have five children, the child allowance is 200 rubles (after 7 years), this state showered me with a golden rain.

                  Well, children do not give birth for the sake of money, of course, you will have to sacrifice pleasures for them, noisy, you need to feed them ... but you are not telling the truth about benefits, maternity capital benefits at birth, they received land for free, travel is free, other benefits, but you yourself must to serve children, this is God's commandment, to love children at least their own ... not out of self-interest they gave birth
          2. Polar
            Polar 15 December 2021 17: 56
            0
            It is true - we kill our children with abortions in wild numbers, get divorced, abandon already born children and cry at the same time that there are many migrants, and no one protects us, the poor, from them. In fact, we are dragging after the West, which we either hate or deify.

            And before the coup of 1917, others were afraid and cried that there were many Russians.

            A holy place is never empty. Hold on, West, victorious over Christianity. And you, Russia, hold on too. Unfortunately.
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 15 December 2021 22: 05
              0
              Quote: Polar
              It is true - we kill our children with abortions in wild numbers, get divorced, abandon already born children and cry at the same time that there are many migrants, and no one protects us, the poor, from them. In fact, we are dragging after the West, which we either hate or deify.

              unfortunately this is so because they left God the commandments neglected, and then hypocritically crying "hazing", "corruption" .. so the same hypocrites who rejected God and brought us hazing, because they rejected the commandment of love for neighbor and massively, and brought us corruption because they rejected the commandment do not steal and in large quantities ...
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vXGQhQv04Y
              If there is no God, everything is permissible - mankind needs laws so that it does not turn into a bloodthirsty, cruel, senseless crowd. Laws are written and unwritten (moral). The first are relatively young, appeared with the emergence of states. The second are ancient. It is believed that the moral laws were given to society by God himself. But if people deny the existence of God, then they stop believing and following His laws and it becomes "everything is allowed" for them - to kill, rob, offend the weak, deceive with impunity; after all, it is in the moral laws - the ten commandments set forth in the Pentateuch that the entire moral principle of the life of mankind is contained in a condensed form

              Source: http://chtooznachaet.ru/esli-boga-net-vsyo-dozvoleno.html
              or the murder of 3 million Russian children a year! have already surpassed the worshipers of the Baal, the damned Phoenicians and Carthaginians in their bloodthirstiness, and the next stage Sodom and Gomorrah Epistle to Romans 1: 25-28 SYNO
              They replaced the truth of God with a lie, and worshiped and served the creature instead of the Creator, who is blessed forever, amen. Therefore, God gave them up to shameful passions: their women replaced natural use with unnatural; likewise men, leaving the natural use of the female sex, were kindled by lust for one another, men doing shame on men and receiving in themselves due retribution for their delusion. And just as they did not care to have God in their minds, then God gave them up to a perverse mind - to do lewdness
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIeR7JhNvYI
              If the Lord of hosts had not left us a small remnant, then we would have been the same as Sodom, we would have become like Gomorrah.
              Isaiah 1: 9 - Isa 1: 9: https://bible.by/verse/23/1/9/
              1. Piligrim
                Piligrim 16 December 2021 00: 46
                0
                "If the Lord of hosts had not left us a small remnant, then we would have been the same as Sodom, we would have become like Gomorrah."
                What kind of faith do you hold? I don’t understand something like an Orthodox mow, but with quotes from the Old Testament, what does it have to do with you if you are Orthodox? This is the covenant of the God of Israel with the Jewish people. Are you a cross and you have a mess in your head? If you are Russian, so be so kind as to rely on the Gospels, and leave the commandments about your neighbor to those who profess Judaism. Otherwise, complete schizophrenia.
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 16 December 2021 08: 49
                  0
                  you have complete schizophrenia, why did you decide that the Orthodox canceled the old testament? The new covenant is based on the old, although the Jews fell away from the faith and sinned, then the blessings of the old covenant were passed on to the former pagans = Christians,

                  here is from the new covenant for you ¹⁶ All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ¹⁷ May the man of God be perfect, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 3: 16-17
                  © Bible Online, 2003-2021.
                  1. Piligrim
                    Piligrim 17 December 2021 19: 51
                    0
                    About schizophrenia.
                    "The new covenant is based on the old one." How is it? Have you opened the Sermon on the Mount for a long time? There, by the way, more than once there are the words "the ancients said, and I tell you." This is what I mean. Here's another reminder of how the Old Testament is listed: Do not kill, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false testimony against your neighbor. So? So! And this means you can work with someone who is not close, do not believe any lawyer, ask him, he will explain it to you. Now the Gospels: Yes, love one another as I have loved you. Do you see the difference? Not? Then I will explain to each other i.e. another, not just a neighbor.
                    In the modern language of "our neighbor" - nationalism (Nazism), "each other" - internationalism. And how do you manage to cross a hedgehog with a snake? Even the ancient wise Jewish people did not succeed, because otherwise split consciousness = schizophrenia.
                    I mean that in ancient knowledge a lot can be learned from the point of view of this for all time, we take this into the future, but the ancients needed this to solve their problems, they decided, well, we don't need this anymore for we are now a hindrance, we reject it boldly and calmly go into the future.
                    Something like that.
                    1. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 17 December 2021 20: 12
                      0
                      Quote: Piligrim
                      So? So! And this means you can work with someone who is not close, do not believe any lawyer, ask him, he will explain it to you. Now the Gospels: Yes, love one another as I have loved you. Do you see the difference? Not? Then I will explain to each other i.e. another, not just a neighbor.

                      you fall into Heresy because you judge what you do not understand and what you don’t know and what a person is not allowed to judge in general ... when they say to each other this is more than a casual neighbor (according to the parable of one found lying on the road), this is a friend! and usually even more = brother in Christ

                      ¹⁸ I'm not talking about all of you; I know whom I have chosen.
                      John 13: 18-20
                      © Bible Online, 2003-2021.
                      ³⁴ I give you a new commandment, that you love one another; as I have loved you, so you also love one another. ³⁵ By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. John 13: 34-35
                      © Bible Online, 2003-2021.

                      But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus: "And who is my neighbor?" In response, Jesus told him a parable: “A certain man was walking from Jerusalem to Jericho and was caught by robbers, who took off his clothes, wounded him and left, leaving him barely alive. Likewise, the Levite, being in that place, approached, looked and passed by. But a Samaritan, passing by, found him, and when he saw him, he took pity on him and, coming up, bandaged his wounds, pouring oil and wine; and, placing him on his donkey , brought him to the hotel and took care of him; and the next day, leaving, he took out two denarii *, gave it to the innkeeper and said to him: Take care of him; and if you spend anything more, when I return, I will give it to you. "
                      After telling the parable, Jesus asked the lawyer: "Which of these three do you think was the neighbor to the one who fell into the hands of the robbers?" The lawyer replied, "He who has shown him mercy." Then Christ said to him: “Go, and you do likewise.” The parable of the merciful Samaritan
                      © Bible Online, 2003-2021.
                      1. Piligrim
                        Piligrim 17 December 2021 20: 27
                        0
                        "you will fall into Heresy because he judges what you do not understand and what you do not know, and what in general is not given to a person to judge ..."
                        I do not judge, I am not a judge, I express my understanding. Here you are trying to judge me, it is not clear why and why? Think for yourself: why did Jesus talk to people at all? If they cannot understand him, in your opinion, why should you contact them at all? Do you communicate with ants? And how much understanding have you gained? Maybe because you just have a different language of communication with them, if there was a common one, everything would be fine. Is not it so?
                      2. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 17 December 2021 20: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Piligrim
                        If they cannot understand him, in your opinion, why should you contact them at all?

                        to understand and judge this, let's say frankly direct opposites, by the way, ..... God wants to be understood, but not judge yourself and others ... it's just that what I write is not something I invented, all this has been studied for centuries, and do not take everything remake ... and I do not blame you, I myself am a sinner, but I want to correct the obvious bloopers, not in order to be exalted in others, but for the benefit of the listeners ... I am sorry that people are dying, I feel sorry for those who are humiliated in the army and navy, I am offended for the state when officers buy stars, so I take the trouble to write all this here
                      3. Piligrim
                        Piligrim 17 December 2021 22: 07
                        +1
                        "I'm sorry for the state"
                        This is the main thing. Me too, but we are not holding the power in our hands. We are more like fans. No need to give in to emotions, I wrote it, but I myself thought: writing is much easier than doing. The main thing is that in the end, mutual understanding has been found.
                        And about "all this has been studied for centuries, and do not undertake to redo everything ..." Everything does not need to be redone, I mean that in the past it is really necessary to rely on the "fortress", and not on the quagmire, there is enough of it. For centuries, people studied geometry according to Euclid, and then Lobachevsky came and the world changed, we went into space ... In the past there are many good and valuable, but no less bad, let's learn from the past and learn from the best examples and in faith
                    2. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 17 December 2021 20: 18
                      0
                      Quote: Piligrim
                      I mean that in ancient knowledge a lot can be learned from the point of view of this for all time, we take this into the future, but the ancients needed this to solve their problems, they decided, well, we don't need this anymore for we are now a hindrance, we reject it boldly and calmly go into the future.
                      Something like that.


                      your heresy is from ignorance, but "you do not know to be silent," although in general it is clear that you, like any atheist who deny God, his commandments, the way of repentance and forgiveness of your sins by God, always try to abolish the law, correct it for your convenience (for example, you take the right beat young soldiers in the barracks), in general, that is why all atheists deny God because they are afraid to know that they will receive retribution, although the Lord offers forgiveness and eternal life through repentance, but you do not want to repent, you are making yourself God and take the self-appointed right establish the laws of life


                      16 So let your light shine before people, so that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in Heaven.
                      17 Do not think that I am come to break the law or the prophets: I am not come to break, but to fulfill.
                      18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law, until all is fulfilled.
                2. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 16 December 2021 09: 15
                  0
                  Quote: Piligrim
                  If you are Russian, so be so kind as to rely on the Gospels, and leave the commandments about your neighbor to those who profess Judaism.

                  Pharisaism is inherent not only to the Jews, but also to you personally, although you can mow down a believer, of all that I brought from the word of God, nothing touched you, neither the fate of the murdered Russian babies, nor the fate of young soldiers beaten in the barracks and forced to commit suicide ... you. more worried so that the crosses are not worn out? and besides, you showed a complete lack of understanding of the new covenant where the Lord gave the commandment about your neighbor that you just rejected publicly

                  ²⁷ God is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. So you are very much delusional. "
                  ²⁸ One of the scribes, hearing their debate and seeing that Jesus answered them well, approached and asked Him: "Which is the first of all the commandments?"
                  ²⁹ Jesus answered him: “The first of all the commandments: 'Hear, Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord;
                  ³⁰ and love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength “- this is the first commandment!
                  ³¹ The second is like her: "Love your neighbor as yourself." There is no other commandment greater than these ”.
                  The scribe said to Him: “Good, Master! You have told the truth that there is one God and there is none other than Him;
                  ³³ and love Him with all your heart, and with all your mind, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself, is more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices. "
                  ³⁴ Jesus, seeing that he answered intelligently, said to him: "You are not far from the Kingdom of God." After that, no one dared to ask Him.
                  Mark 12: 27-34
                  © Bible Online, 2003-2021.

                  in general, you fell deeply into the sin of pharisaism and dislike for me, you tried to accuse me of studying the scriptures, and called me a cross ...
                  ¹⁶ God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. ¹⁷ ....... ²⁰ Whoever says, “I love God,” but hates his brother is a liar: for he who does not love his brother whom he sees, how can he love God, whom he does not see? ²¹ And we have from Him such a commandment that he who loves God should love his brother also.
                  1 John 4: 16-21
                  © Bible Online, 2003-2021.
                  1. Piligrim
                    Piligrim 17 December 2021 19: 58
                    0
                    Quotes are good, but to whom, when and for what reason are they spoken? Look at this. Jesus spoke to anyone in his language in order to convey his message as clearly as possible. Agree, you will now listen to the speech of an academician in physics and understand little, and you will hardly understand everything from a hair dryer. And he had to convey his thoughts to people, which he did. By the way, it should be noted if you carefully read these passages (where you quote from), you get the impression that this is what the Beyond is saying, and a mere mortal cannot answer that way. Something like this.
                    1. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 17 December 2021 20: 04
                      0
                      Quote: Piligrim
                      By the way, it should be noted if you carefully read these passages (where you quote from), you get the impression that this is what the Beyond is saying, and a mere mortal cannot answer that way. Something like this.

                      well, thank God, you understood that the Lord is not an ordinary mortal ...
                      1. Piligrim
                        Piligrim 17 December 2021 20: 18
                        0
                        I also realized that for some he is the Lord, i.e. lord, but for others "our Heavenly Father ..." and everyone is free to address him directly without intermediaries and interpreters. It's just that this choice is personal and responsibility for it is also personal.
        5. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 15 December 2021 13: 31
          0
          Quote: paul3390
          They are fighting for mom, dad, children and loved ones - for the Motherland.

          Let's admit. Well, okay - will you fight for those who have done very badly to mom, dad, children and loved ones for 30 years? Who is spreading rot and robbing them? And who is selling the Motherland left and right?

          That is, good Americans will come and dad and mom will receive an American pension?
      4. EvilLion
        EvilLion 14 December 2021 08: 36
        +7
        It is immediately evident that people have already forgotten how the Great Patriotic War differed from WWI, when they fought "for Mother Raseya" so much that by 1917 it was impossible to keep anyone at the front.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 14 December 2021 08: 42
          -22
          Quote: EvilLion
          They fought "for Mother Raseya" in such a way that by 1917 it was impossible to keep anyone at the front

          The topic is not the same and you are wrong.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 14 December 2021 08: 43
            -2
            Once again, explain why they fought for the USSR, but did not want to for Russia.
            1. faiver
              faiver 14 December 2021 08: 47
              0
              So look who attacked whom ...
            2. AUL
              AUL 14 December 2021 11: 28
              +16
              Quote: EvilLion
              Once again, explain why they fought for the USSR, but did not want to for Russia.

              Because then they believed in the authorities and respected them. Now - exactly the opposite!
            3. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 14 December 2021 11: 48
              +22
              Once again, explain why they fought for the USSR, but did not want to for Russia.
              Everything is complicated and simple. For myself, I understand this: Compare the quality of life before the revolution of an ordinary worker and the possibilities of his children and after 1935. Heaven and earth. They stopped starving, children are taught, medicine has become free. They began to reckon with the opinion of the worker. And life got better and kept getting better. And the attitude towards the authorities and the country has become completely different. Unemployment has been eradicated. So they fought not only for vegetable gardens, but also for a better future life. And now it's already 30 years of degradation, socially and morally.
              1. Glagol1
                Glagol1 14 December 2021 12: 58
                -24
                There was no particular difference in 1935 versus 1913 in the situation of ordinary people. They plowed for pennies 6 days a week, in canteens they fed workers with shit, medicine was free and useless. No one took into account the opinion of the workers; everything was decided by the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the state apparatus. Yes, illiteracy was defeated, but in 1913 it was already not bad. People had faith in a better future that never came. Of course, the war broke everything, but then it still didn't work out. Yes, there were good 60-70 years, but then again everything rotted away.
                1. Akuzenka
                  Akuzenka 14 December 2021 14: 32
                  +13
                  I suggest you feel the difference in the quality of life on your own person. Let it not be fully. Move to a basement with no heating, candlelight, or kerosene at best. Eat and dress in accordance with the "living wage", do not go to hospitals, only to herbalists and consume the most fake vodka, if you have enough money for it. Yes, don't forget to work. And then, when you feel very bad, live at least 40-50 thousand a month in an ordinary apartment or house. Well, if after that the difference doesn't reach you, nothing will help you.
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 14 December 2021 15: 52
                    -15
                    There is nothing to say about the quality of life of an ordinary Soviet person, even in the 50s and 60s, as an example to take the same Yuri Gagarin - that his family lived well before Yura's flight into space in the 61st pilots in the same west of Europe and the United States. All are equally poor - here is the standard of living in the USSR.
                    1. Akuzenka
                      Akuzenka 14 December 2021 17: 01
                      +10
                      All are equally poor - here is the standard of living in the USSR.
                      But even in their thoughts, no one had a question: Is it necessary to defend the Motherland? There were no oligarchs, a system of oppression, universal bribery, fraud, rampant religious businessmen and other achievements of democracy. And about unemployment, they read only in history textbooks.
                      1. Private-K
                        Private-K 15 December 2021 09: 48
                        0
                        Quote: AKuzenka
                        All are equally poor - here is the standard of living in the USSR.
                        But even in their thoughts, no one had a question: Is it necessary to defend the Motherland? There were no oligarchs, a system of oppression, universal bribery, fraud, rampant religious businessmen and other achievements of democracy. And about unemployment, they read only in history textbooks.

                        Well, American and other NATO "capitalist" soldiers were quite ready to fight for themselves. Without your socialism.
                      2. Akuzenka
                        Akuzenka 15 December 2021 16: 47
                        +1
                        Of course ready: "to receive land in the east and Slavic slaves." Including you. They are always eager to rob and rape. For them, war is just a way of getting rich easily. For our mentality, any war, even a victorious one, is a tragedy.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. Akuzenka
                        Akuzenka 15 December 2021 17: 00
                        +2
                        All over the world before and during the times of the USSR and after this question did not arise - all people were ready to defend their homeland and defended even without communist socialist teachings.
                        In the USSR, they defended not only the Motherland, but also the way of life. Here's a cap. a country that has a common border with the Reich, this Reich did not conquer or did not subdue? They all defended their homeland before sacrificing themselves? France? The strongest army in Europe, how much has it resisted? Czech Republic, powerful fortified areas and an excellent army? England, abandoned ALL allies on the continent and fled to the island, and then destroyed the allied French fleet! Here is their defense of the Motherland! America that traded with the Reich until December 1941 ?! I will not say anything about the limitrophes. And the "terrible bloody undemocratic" USSR with socialist doctrine.
                    2. Pilat2009
                      Pilat2009 16 December 2021 07: 14
                      0
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      There is nothing to say about the quality of life of an ordinary Soviet person, even in the 50s and 60s, as an example to take the same Yuri Gagarin - that his family lived well before Yura's flight into space in the 61st pilots in the same west of Europe and the United States. All are equally poor - here is the standard of living in the USSR.

                      In the sense of the poor? Someone was dying of hunger? Or do you judge poverty by the lack of a car? The overwhelming majority of the salary was enough for a normal life.
            4. Silhouette
              Silhouette 15 December 2021 09: 04
              -1
              Quote: EvilLion
              Once again, explain why they fought for the USSR, but did not want to for Russia.

              Who fought for the USSR in 1991? And for Russia, the Civil was.
            5. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 15 December 2021 11: 36
              0
              Quote: EvilLion
              Once again, explain why they fought for the USSR, but did not want to for Russia.

              because the rotten, thieving power as an official in the capitalists of generals-traitors to goat-stealers (who cancel the pensions of introducing passports for slaves) and atheists = rotten intelligentsia (Sobchak Milokhin Navalny Akhedzhakova) in 1917 bothered the people like the fratricidal war ... until we saw that the fascists are beasts ... it will not be Putin that will save us, but the fascist IMF will save us, so carried away by robbery and the introduction of a curfew with Mengele's medical experiments on people and ausweis (kuarkoda) for the occupied peoples that will be unbearable and only then the people will remember the truth and God and drive the hated invaders from their land ak in 1941

              If you will not obey Me and will not obey all these commandments, 15 and if you despise My decrees, and if your soul abhorred My laws, so that you will not obey all My commandments, violating My covenant - 16 then I will do the same to you : I will send on you terror, stuntedness and fever, from which your eyes will be tired and your soul will be exhausted, and you will sow your seeds in vain, and your enemies will eat them; 17 I will set my face against you, and you will fall before your enemies, and your enemies will rule over you, and flee when no one is pursuing you. 18 If, for all this, you will not listen to Me, then I will increase the punishment for your sins sevenfold, 19 and I will break your proud stubbornness, and I will make your heavens like iron, and your earth like brass; 20 And your strength will be in vain, and your land will not give its growth, and the trees of your land will not bear fruit.
              14 – 39
              Втор 28:15-64Вар 2:10Мал 2:2
              15
              4 Kings 17:15
              16
              Tue 28:22Tu 28:33Tu 28:35
              17
              Лев 17:10Лев 26:36-37
              18
              Leo 26:21 Leo 26:24 Leo 26:28
              19
              Deu 28: 23Se 25:11
              20
              Втор 11:17Ис 17:10-11Ис 49:4Агг 1:10
              21 But if (after this) you go against Me and do not want to listen to Me, then I will add seven times more blows to you for your sins: 22 I will send beasts of the field against you, which will deprive you of your children, they will destroy your cattle and reduce you, so that your roads are desolate. ...
              21
              Lev 26:18 Lev 26:24 Lev 26:27 Lev 26:40
              22
              Deut 32: 24 Pre 1: 16 Pre 11: 18 Is 33: 8 Eze 14:15 Zach 7:14
              23 If even after this you will not correct yourself and go against me, 24 then I also (in a rage) will go against you and smite you seven times for your sins, 25 and I will bring a vengeful sword on you to avenge the covenant; But if you hide in your cities, I will send a plague on you, and you will be delivered into the hands of the enemy. 26 the bread that sustains a man, I will cut off from you; ten women will bake your bread in one oven, and they will give your bread in weight; you will eat and you will not be full.
              23
              Jer 2: 30 Jer 5: 3
              24
              Lev 26:21 Lev 26:28 Lev 26:41 Ps 17:26
              25
              Numbers 14: 12Seu 28: 21Ex 24:10
              26
              Psalm 104: 16 Isa 3: 1 Is 9: 20 Is 4: 16 Mic 6:14
              27 And if after this you will not listen to Me and go against Me, 28 then I will also go against you in a rage and will punish you seven times for your sins, 29 and you will eat the flesh of your sons, and you will eat the flesh of your daughters. 30 I will destroy your high places, and I will destroy your pillars, and I will cast your carcases on the fragments of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31 I will make your cities desolation, and I will lay waste to your sanctuaries, and I will not smell the sweet scent of your sacrifices. 32 I will lay waste the land (your), so that your enemies who dwell in it will be amazed at it; 33 But I will scatter you among the nations, and I will draw out a sword after you, and your land will be desolate and your cities destroyed.
        2. ALARI
          ALARI 14 December 2021 09: 41
          -10
          They fought for Mother Raseya so that the front line passed in Poland-Bellorussia-Baltic, and not Moscow-Volga. The soldiers then fulfilled their duty to the end, but the power surrendered, and the front held out until the king lifted his paws up.
          1. Konnick
            Konnick 14 December 2021 14: 58
            +5
            They fought for Mother Raseya so much that the front line passed in Poland-Bellorussia-Baltic, and not Moscow-Volga

            Stupid comparison.
            Here is a comparison, from the speech of J.V. Stalin on November 6, 1942, almost before the start of the defeat of the Germans at Stalingrad, he compares the number of troops in the First World War on the Russian front and in the Second World War -

            Therefore, instead of 127 divisions in the First World War, we now have at least 240 divisions against our front, and instead of 85 German divisions we now have 179 German divisions fighting against the Red Army.


            here you can read in more detail, the primary source.
            1. ALARI
              ALARI 14 December 2021 15: 24
              -10
              Everything is so all right. Only now it was foolish to forget that Russia then fought on 2,5 fronts. Turkey, do not forget, and not a frail corps in France. Lack of industrialization before the war (as in WWII), weapons and everything else only for gold and then when they do it for their own, there is no lend-lease. The allies at times did not provide information and played behind their backs.
              1. Konnick
                Konnick 14 December 2021 15: 29
                +1
                not a frail corps in France.

                Not funny anymore. 2 brigades of 2 regiments in France and 2 brigades in Greece
                1. ALARI
                  ALARI 14 December 2021 15: 35
                  -8
                  750 officers and 45 non-commissioned officers and soldiers in France alone is it funny? I don’t know. I don’t know.
                  1. Pilat2009
                    Pilat2009 16 December 2021 07: 21
                    +1
                    Quote: ALARI
                    750 officers and 45 non-commissioned officers and soldiers in France alone is it funny? I don’t know. I don’t know.

                    Nevertheless, Germany fought on 2 fronts. 45 thousand soldiers on the scale of WWII is a trifle.
          2. paul3390
            paul3390 14 December 2021 16: 42
            +12
            They fought for Mother Raseya so much that the front line passed in Poland-Bellorussia-Baltic, and not Moscow-Volga

            RI - fought with Austria, which still had fronts in Italy and the Balkans, and with Germany, which generally had its main front in the West ..

            The USSR, on the other hand, faced the ENTIRE army of Germany and the former Austro-Hungary .. Plus - a bunch of satellites that gave a million bayonets. Moreover, the Far Eastern Front, where it was also not sickly troops had to be kept. And - with practically all the economic potential of Europe. By the way - we won then, didn't we? And now think - what would become of RI, if she faced something like this .. They would definitely have rolled back to the Urals .. At least.
            1. ALARI
              ALARI 15 December 2021 09: 18
              +1
              I want to remind you that the defeats of the first year of the war for 41 years occurred not because the whole colossus of Europe hit the USSR, but because of the mediocrity of the leadership, both military and civil. There were many troops on the border and the equipment was not inferior to the German one, but it did not work out to use it correctly. Well, 42 years of investigation 41, the personnel army burned down on the border, huge resources were lost, while the industry was restored in the Urals, we had to retreat.
          3. single-n
            single-n 14 December 2021 20: 21
            0
            Well, the border in 1913 was beyond Warsaw. And the front for Germany is secondary, and even we attacked. Here are just 2 armies proeeeee and until the age of 15 they sat on the priest exactly. And then they broke into us. And so yes one to one war. By the way, it was better allies. For us and Italy and Romania and Finland and Japan. There were no Belgian or Dutch volunteers against us. And the second front was much stronger than a dozen divisions in Africa. And one vegetable merged enchantingly. With terrible losses. The video bet on industry and education helped more than the spiritual priests and the anointed one on the throne.
          4. Silhouette
            Silhouette 15 December 2021 09: 08
            0
            Quote: ALARI
            the front was held until the king lifted his paws up.

            The front held out until the order of the Bolsheviks No. 1, who turned the external war into a civil war.
            1. UltraRed
              UltraRed 20 December 2021 10: 46
              0
              The Bolsheviks did not issue "Order No. 1". Learn history.
        3. 210ox
          210ox 14 December 2021 19: 18
          +3
          So in the Great Patriotic War the people fought for their Motherland, their lives and their loved ones and everyone. And in the First World War they did not want to fight for the bourgeoisie.
        4. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 15 December 2021 13: 34
          0
          Quote: EvilLion
          It is immediately evident that people have already forgotten how the Great Patriotic War differed from WWI, when they fought "for Mother Raseya" so much that by 1917 it was impossible to keep anyone at the front.

          By 1917, the country had already completely disintegrated, and in 1941 order had to be established by rather strict methods.
      5. DmSol
        DmSol 14 December 2021 09: 29
        +10
        How are you bullshit then every minus. And for this shit, there is always a reason not to. Take away the olegs there will be a thousand more reasons to cover up your infirmity. I agree with the author of the article. Now all state structures have formed quite a harmonious financial scheme. This system is closed within organizations and there is simply no one to complain about such a distribution of premiums among their own and ours. And with covid, this is generally a bonanza. Commissions are created in which they appoint "their own" and this is not free essno. The state allocates. The only way out of this vicious circle is independent, let's say, trade unions, which could moderate appetites a little. But in the USSR these organizations were not needed and degenerated. And while something like this is born in our country, time will pass.
        But this is so in general. And at the private level, everyone decides for himself. The point is that one figs need to be done.
        1. Aag
          Aag 14 December 2021 12: 11
          +4
          Quote: DmSol
          How are you bullshit then every minus. And for this shit, there is always a reason not to. Take away the olegs there will be a thousand more reasons to cover up your infirmity. I agree with the author of the article. Now all state structures have formed quite a harmonious financial scheme. This system is closed within organizations and there is simply no one to complain about such a distribution of premiums among their own and ours. And with covid, this is generally a bonanza. Commissions are created in which they appoint "their own" and this is not free essno. The state allocates. The only way out of this vicious circle is independent, let's say, trade unions, which could moderate appetites a little. But in the USSR these organizations were not needed and degenerated. And while something like this is born in our country, time will pass.
          But this is so in general. And at the private level, everyone decides for himself. The point is that one figs need to be done.

          The trouble is that nowadays everyone understands this in his own way - to do the job.
          In the late USSR, they pretended to be doing business. ... Before they did ... -, with the abolition of ideology, ideas, the main purpose of "activity" was stuffing pockets, and (or) blunt burning of life.
        2. 210ox
          210ox 14 December 2021 19: 20
          0
          This article by Skomorokhov has already been exhibited in YaP. There is a riot there too.
      6. AllXVahhaB
        AllXVahhaB 14 December 2021 14: 30
        +5
        Likewise, "army" is not an abstract concept. Feudal vassal squads, recruitment armies of the new era, general conscription armies of modern times, the Workers 'Peasants' Red Army, contract armies of the late 20th century and today's PMCs ... These are all "armies" ... but, as it were, different ...
        Quote: Boris55
        The task of the army is to protect the state from external enemies, regardless of the political structure of the state.

        Smiled))) Are you challenging the results of the Nuremberg Tribunal? That is, not just challenging, but acting as a lawyer for the Wehrmacht, SS and others like them ...
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 15 December 2021 13: 38
          +1
          Quote: AllXVahhaB
          Likewise, "army" is not an abstract concept. Feudal vassal squads, recruitment armies of the new era, general conscription armies of modern times, the Workers 'Peasants' Red Army, contract armies of the late 20th century and today's PMCs ... These are all "armies" ... but, as it were, different ...
          Quote: Boris55
          The task of the army is to protect the state from external enemies, regardless of the political structure of the state.

          Smiled))) Are you challenging the results of the Nuremberg Tribunal? That is, not just challenging, but acting as a lawyer for the Wehrmacht, SS and others like them ...

          Well, this phrase "protection from external enemies" is rather vague. It can be interpreted quite freely. In Syria, what is the army that protects from external enemies?
          1. AllXVahhaB
            AllXVahhaB 15 December 2021 17: 42
            0
            Quote: Pilat2009
            Well, this phrase "protection from external enemies" is rather vague. It can be interpreted quite freely. In Syria, what is the army that protects from external enemies?

            The army is the instrument of the ruling class in defending its interests. Who is our ruling class now? Here she also protects their interests. Wherever. Whether in Syria or Antarctica!
      7. zenion
        zenion 21 December 2021 16: 31
        -1
        Boris55. And to protect hamsters and wolves, the National Guard, that is, the gendarmerie, was created. In the event of a shortage, this cannot be, then the army enters, as in the days of Khrushchev. But now, in addition to the gendarmerie, there are special troops that are unknown. For the rest, you can throw at your nuclear, die like that with music, they also like to talk when leaving, slam the door hard. Who needs a country in which it is impossible to live because of radiation. But you can live in the principality of Moscow. And the rest is bought by selling slaves.
    3. Stas157
      Stas157 14 December 2021 08: 12
      +30
      Tsarek has long dreamed of creating a professional army, where they serve for money. Dreams, one might say, have been exceeded - now everything is for money. Super professionals !!)))

      And not only the army! The state corporations are run by super-professionals Sechins and Millers. Cosmos is a super professional Rogozin. Central Bank - Nabiullina. And everyone gets exorbitantly high salaries and royalties for their superprofessionalism.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 14 December 2021 08: 19
        -30
        Quote: Stas157
        now everything is for money.

        In the Soviet army, a private received 3 rubles. 80 kopecks. Can it be considered that then they served for money?

        The salary in the Russian army in 2022, the salary of contract soldiers for the rank is:

        Privates (sailor) - 5,6 thousand rubles;
        Corporal staff (senior sailor) - 6,1 thousand rubles;
        Junior sergeant - 6,7 thousand rubles;
        Sergeant - 7,3 thousand rubles;
        Senior sergeant - 7,8 thousand rubles;
        Petty officer - 8,4 thousand rubles;
        Ensign - 8,9 thousand rubles.

        Official salaries:

        Road workers and other primary positions - 11,2 thousand rubles;
        Machine gunner - 12,3 thousand rubles;
        Senior sapper - 13,4 thousand rubles;
        Tank commander - 14,5 thousand rubles;
        The commander of a tank (motorized rifle) platoon - 16,8 thousand rubles;
        Paramedic, head of the landfill - 17,9 thousand rubles;
        Deputy platoon commander - 19 thousand rubles.

        Can it be considered that today contract soldiers serve for money?
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 14 December 2021 09: 32
          +6
          Very strange data:
          The commander of a tank (motorized rifle) platoon - 16,8 thousand rubles;
          Deputy platoon commander - 19 thousand rubles.

          Although how to look wassat The commander is just a sign and the face of the unit, but the deputy ... yes, all the gesheft is on him. Therefore, the salary is more good
        2. Kesha1980
          Kesha1980 14 December 2021 12: 42
          +1
          ... Senior sapper - 13,4 thousand rubles;

          The infa was in my head, so I remember: in Chechnya, a sapper (contract) in 2004. received 15.500 (excluding the "battle days", but taking into account the "field", etc.). Is it possible that, after almost 20 years, salaries have fallen?
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 14 December 2021 13: 33
            +1
            Quote: NDR-791
            Very strange data:
            The commander of a tank (motorized rifle) platoon - 16,8 thousand rubles;
            Deputy platoon commander - 19 thousand rubles.

            Quote: Kesha1980
            The infa got into my head, so I remember:

            If you are interested in pay for / employees:
            https://militarist-info.ru/2021/10/01/povishenie-denejnogo-dovolstvia-voennoslujachim/
            Increase in pay for military personnel from October 1, 2021
            1. Kesha1980
              Kesha1980 14 December 2021 13: 40
              +1
              Thanks for the info. But it is customary to consider the final salary. Not a salary. I know a lieutenant colonel who receives about 90.000. Without the 400th order, of course.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 15 December 2021 10: 16
                -1
                Well, I served with a friend of the Starley back in 2012 in secret, received 70 thousand
          2. Barberry25
            Barberry25 15 December 2021 10: 14
            +1
            so it is necessary to summarize? rank, position, physical, length of service, conditions of service, etc., etc. This is how recently the liberal media wrote that "horror, astronauts get 60 thousand", and then it turned out that we are talking about a salary
            1. Kesha1980
              Kesha1980 15 December 2021 10: 18
              -1
              So I'm talking about the same thing. The final salary is a correct reflection of reality. Not 13.000 for a contract soldier.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 15 December 2021 10: 25
                +1
                just half of the topvar's experts do not like to look for information) .. And about the article as a whole .. if the war is waged for interests, then either quit or fight, and the funny thing is that in some places the officers try to bribe to get into Syria. "For the Motherland", i.e. Patriotic, then if you are in uniform, you either fight with the enemy, or go over to his side ... The problem is that you become a traitor, but something tells me that most of the screaming and yelling will not want to be called Vlasovites .. About corruption, well, it has always been, in some parts it is really difficult with this, but it is so all over the world, until the thunder breaks out and there is no Big Check, the officers will cover themselves ... So Zolotarev acted in a peculiar and stupid way, he would have to go out was at the level of the military prosecutor's office above its own unit, then there would be more sense, since such "open letters" are usually lowered down the chain just to the level of the division ..
        3. Vadim237
          Vadim237 14 December 2021 15: 55
          -3
          Did you come up with this data on salaries and what source did you come up with for 2022?
        4. Barberry25
          Barberry25 15 December 2021 10: 12
          -1
          so this is the salary for the title and VUS ..
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 14 December 2021 08: 38
        -7
        You will undoubtedly do better. Although something tells me that you control only the cursor on the monitor screen.
      3. Glory1974
        Glory1974 14 December 2021 09: 45
        +13
        Tsarek has long dreamed of creating a professional army, where they serve for money.

        In all countries of the world they serve for money, and in general all people work for money. How do you imagine the state structure? Everyone works for money, and only in the army for thanks?
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 14 December 2021 09: 58
          +8
          Quote: glory1974
          In general, all people work for money.

          Do you also buy positions and business trips for money? Not everything should be on sale. Especially in the army. Although, to whom am I explaining!
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 14 December 2021 10: 12
            -9
            Do you think in the USA they serve for the idea? Or do they not sell positions or are such facts typical only for the Russian army?
            1. Revival
              Revival 14 December 2021 12: 51
              +5
              USA again?
              What side do they sell and buy to us?
              1. Glory1974
                Glory1974 14 December 2021 12: 57
                -6
                What side do they sell and buy to us?

                Besides, people are the same everywhere, and if the main sign of success in a country is money, then it’s foolish to expect things to be different in the army.
            2. Barberry25
              Barberry25 15 December 2021 10: 16
              -1
              The funny thing is that in the US military salaries are not quoted
      4. Avior
        Avior 14 December 2021 10: 12
        +31
        The state corporations are run by super-professionals Sechins and Millers.

        Forge of personnel, she is so ...
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 14 December 2021 10: 19
          +18
          Quote: Avior
          Forge of personnel, she is so ...

          hi The whole gang is assembled. And you can immediately see from which field the berries are!))
        2. your1970
          your1970 14 December 2021 11: 35
          -18
          Quote: Avior
          Forge of personnel, she is so ...

          Imagine that the USSR has returned - and you are the General Secretary.
          Who will you appoint as ministers? The first ones you come across or those whom you know personally? At the very least, who will be recommended to you by those whom you trust or whose opinion you consider important ..
          Iniche you will find yourself in a situation - in what Stalin was before the war and around there were only Trotskyist spies unable to work, and so on ...
          Zhigarev, for example, lied in the eyes of Stalin in the fall of 1941 ... and what to do about it?
          Therefore, I am not surprised that everyone - about whom the GDP had their own opinion and he knew what each of them was capable of - ended up in power ..
          "Cadres decide everything" - Stalin said it for a reason

          But Misha 2% was obviously imposed on him
          1. Konnick
            Konnick 14 December 2021 15: 09
            +3
            But Misha 2% was obviously imposed on him

            So 2% is godly, probably not enough for the carve-up with GDP. By the way, under Kasyanov, the dollar was stable at 30 rubles.
        3. Cosm22
          Cosm22 14 December 2021 12: 08
          +9
          Nice reminder. Frankly, I did not delve into it before.
          Thanks for the list of comrades.
        4. AllXVahhaB
          AllXVahhaB 14 December 2021 14: 43
          -6
          Quote: Avior
          Forge of personnel, she is so ...

          So what? Look at the Brezhnev government, so there are all Dnepropetrovsk ones ... It has always been like this!
          1. Avior
            Avior 14 December 2021 15: 21
            +6
            Tell me who exactly?
            Kosygin, Tikhonov, Shchelokov, Malinovsky, Grechko, Ustinov - nobody seems to be from Dnepropetrovsk.
            1. AllXVahhaB
              AllXVahhaB 14 December 2021 16: 29
              0
              Quote: Avior
              Kosygin, Tikhonov, Shchelokov, Malinovsky, Grechko, Ustinov - nobody seems to be from Dnepropetrovsk.

              Just Tikhonov and Shchelokov ... And also - Shcherbitsky, Kirilenko, Blatov, Tsukanov, etc.
              Or is the chairman of the Dnepropetrovsk City Executive Committee Shchelokov not from Dnepropetrovsk?
              1. Avior
                Avior 14 December 2021 17: 35
                +4
                Or the chairman of the Dnepropetrovsk city executive committee Shchelokov is not from Dnepropetrovsk

                He is from Luhansk. In Dnepropetrovsk he worked for some time before the war. With the same success it can be called "Moldavian" - there he also worked under Brezhnev after the war. He did not work in the Depropetrovsk City Committee under Brezhnev.
                Shcherbitsky never worked in the government of the USSR, never went above the level of the Ukrainian SSR, did not work in the Dnepropetrovsk City Committee under Brezhnev.
                Kirilenko worked in Dnepropetrovsk, but at that time Brezhnev himself was no longer in Dnepropetrovsk; he was then transferred to Moldova.
                Blatov from Moscow, never worked in Dnepropetrovsk, however, he studied there at the institute, but lived in Zaporozhye.
                Tsukanov yes, from Dnepropetrovsk. But that's not the level. He did not work in the Dnepropetrovsk City Committee under Brezhnev.
                Tikhonov from Kharkov. I have never worked in the Dnepropetrovsk City Committee.
                Thus, of the huge number of people who were part of the leadership of the USSR under Brezhnev, there were only a few Dnipropetrovsk people who worked there with Brezhnev.
                1. AllXVahhaB
                  AllXVahhaB 15 December 2021 17: 38
                  0
                  Quote: Avior
                  He is from Luhansk.

                  And Chubais is from Borisov, Minsk region, and Gref, in general, from Pavlodar ... With the same success they can be called "Moscow", not "St. Petersburg" ... Do you really not understand what I mean or pretend? Don't know how teams form and work around a leader? Even in politics, even in business ... At least in any area of ​​human activity?
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 15 December 2021 19: 04
                    -1
                    I understand that you are pulling an owl over the globe. Practically none of those mentioned by you worked in the Dnepropetrovsk City Committee at the same time as Brezhnev.
                    Brezhnev himself worked from Moldova to Kazakhstan, until he got to Moscow, you can pull a lot of things under his "command"
                    The concept of a team can only be attributed to Tsukanov, he did not work in independent roles, he was Brezhnev's assistant.
                    The rest are frankly strained if the word Dnepropetrovsk just flashed in the biography, as in Blatov's, despite the fact that the person there only studied in absentia and never worked.
                    None of them are connected with Brezhnev as in the above list, working simultaneously in one governing body
        5. Vadim237
          Vadim237 14 December 2021 15: 59
          -3
          And the only one Kudrin worked all the time and continues to work in the profession for decades.
    4. VORON538
      VORON538 14 December 2021 14: 25
      +1
      They are not fighting for Putin, not for Stalin, but for their home, for their loved ones. So it was, it will be so. And yes, for my 17 calendar days I have not come across anything like this. Maybe Roman and I have different military nearby? there is such a thing when entering the VVUZ, but I haven’t seen anyone who honestly admitted that “yes, it was.” enough, especially the junior staff.
    5. skeptic
      skeptic 14 December 2021 20: 48
      +4
      He served in the late 70s, among the officers, there was also a bike that if hostilities began, then many of their own, their own, would shoot ... sent troops to Afghanistan. Who has heard of massive, internal shootings? The Germans also fell for the discontent in the Army in 1979. In the tsarist army, what is written above was the same. They are fighting in Russia not for grabbers, but for their own home.
      ps Although, with the thieves' plowman, it is necessary to figure it out.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 15 December 2021 11: 24
        0
        Well, here's another funny moment ... in 2021, they are outraged that in one part everything is not very good ... although 15 years ago it was considered the norm
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 15 December 2021 13: 58
        0
        Quote: skeptic
        He served in the late 70s, among the officers, there was also a bike that if hostilities began, then many of their own, their own, would shoot ... sent troops to Afghanistan. Who has heard of massive, internal shootings? The Germans also fell for the discontent in the Army in 1979. In the tsarist army, what is written above was the same. They are fighting in Russia not for grabbers, but for their own home.
        ps Although, with the thieves' plowman, it is necessary to figure it out.

        They figured it out in Ukraine
    6. The comment was deleted.
  2. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 14 December 2021 05: 46
    +26
    Back at school, in the Soviet, we were forced to read Lenin's grandfather, about the fact that the state is the private property of the bureaucracy. Those. a means of making a profit, in the terminology of the time.
    It's surprising that this surprises someone.
    Apparently not everyone learned to read at school.
  3. Andrey Moskvin
    Andrey Moskvin 14 December 2021 05: 50
    -28
    Do not read Roman Skomorokhov until lunchtime !!
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 14 December 2021 10: 03
      +17
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      Do not read Roman Skomorokhov until lunchtime !!

      Losing stability? Wait for the evening release of Kissel. This will bring you back to normal again!
      1. Andrey Moskvin
        Andrey Moskvin 14 December 2021 12: 32
        -5
        Yes, everything is fine with me. I reduce my communication with the state to zero, but I don’t look at Kiselev, I will disappoint you. No.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  4. Uran53
    Uran53 14 December 2021 05: 52
    +39
    Educational services are provided at school and kindergarten, and medical services are provided in health care. Campaign in the army - services for the protection of the Russian Federation. TIN!
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 14 December 2021 06: 15
      +10
      ... TIN!


      They also provide services about prostitutes, what was it taken from them?
      1. Far B
        Far B 14 December 2021 06: 31
        +25
        There is at least some benefit from this category of citizens (whoever says anything). But what is the use of the owners of sticky palms mentioned in the article (so that money sticks to them better)?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Flooding
          Flooding 14 December 2021 08: 10
          +1
          Quote: Dalny V
          There is at least some benefit from this category of women

          maybe it is worth legalizing?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 14 December 2021 10: 32
            +6
            For those who are at the top, everything has long been legalized, and not only girls.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 14 December 2021 10: 34
              +2
              Quote: Sea Cat
              For those who are at the top, everything has long been legalized, and not only girls.

              it doesn't matter above or below))
              hooked "benefit".
        3. Flooding
          Flooding 14 December 2021 10: 24
          -1
          Quote: Dalny V
          There is at least some benefit from this category of women

          it suddenly occurred to me
          they say that there is also a benefit from marijuana))
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 14 December 2021 10: 22
        +15
        Quote: Sea Cat
        They also provide services about schoolchildren

        I think they are more honest.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 14 December 2021 10: 26
          +18
          Quote: Stas157
          I think they are more honest

          Naturally, Stas! They voice you the payment for specific services. The government, on the other hand, charges a fee for promises that it absolutely does not fulfill. hi
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 14 December 2021 10: 36
            +13
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            The government, on the other hand, charges a fee for promises that it absolutely does not fulfill.

            And you can't even get your lucky ticket in the lottery!

            Mortgages, rising prices, life is becoming more and more alarming. I decided to play the lottery - to correct the situation. So it turns out that not everything is all right there! I began to understand - and there they lie and deceive. And foreign lotteries were blocked by Roskomnadzor. Like only play with our scammers!
            1. Konnick
              Konnick 14 December 2021 15: 37
              +9
              Like only play with our scammers!

              Also with banks. Foreign banks are not allowed. "This is our cow .." The same Garmash, Porechenkov, Bezrukov and Khabenskys promise one thing in their advertising, but in fact they are a complete deception. These accomplices would also be attracted under the article on fraud.
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 14 December 2021 10: 31
          +5
          This is how they do business, that is, they work, and do not engage in verbiage and do not steal.
      3. Uran53
        Uran53 14 December 2021 11: 01
        +10
        By and large, yes. For instance. You came to the hospital with some kind of sore. The doctor looked at you, made a diagnosis and prescribed treatment. But not for nothing, but for money. For cash, compulsory medical insurance, voluntary medical insurance, but for money. Plus additional services for a separate price list. No money - heal yourself. I received the payment, waved my pen to the patient and immediately forgot, because a new patient came. That is, purely commercial relations. The same is in school and kindergarten. Why should it be different in the army? The results of this practice, both in medicine and in education, are already visible today. And whether the army will stand guard over the Fatherland (so after 5 years), if the payment of allowances is delayed or the enemy offers a higher salary, is really a question.
    2. MikhailRus
      MikhailRus 14 December 2021 09: 05
      +20
      So remember the company of the guard of honor at the recent wedding of the tsar
  5. carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 14 December 2021 06: 07
    -24
    I sometimes read Roman and freak out from what I see ... All my entourage are officers from birth to this day. Many academies graduated and visited Syria. Itself went the way from the IED starting. And we have seen enough of various kinds of feces in our lives. But why all these stories about buying positions, paying for business trips do not sound?) Maybe for the reason that individual cases of committing crimes are not a conveyor belt and it is simply strange to inflate them as a system? Roman, you won't believe it, but let's say many were suing for housing. This became normal after the nineties. By the way, it was precisely when I got this opportunity that my dad with a seniority of 25+ finally took the apartment into his property. I couldn't wait for it from the Union. And what positions a contract soldier can buy, I do not understand at close range. Well, what would you beat off this purchase according to your own words) About the money that did not reach the card, I was especially impressed. Are you talking about presidential ones?)
    1. Sad235
      Sad235 14 December 2021 07: 10
      +42
      Well, I also heard about the purchase of business trips to Syria. smoke without fire and Roman raised the topic for a reason At least the right people know the price in our academy
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 14 December 2021 07: 11
        -34
        And I heard that Alpha Centauri is at war with Krypton. I remember rumors, for example, that in a unit near Khabarovsk 5 people died from beatings. As a result, there were three. One for inflammation, one for dysentery and one in general turned out to be a runner. But it stopped the rumors?)))
        1. forester1971
          forester1971 14 December 2021 13: 14
          -3
          I agree with you. The author made too far-reaching and radical conclusions on the basis of only someone's conversations, no facts are indicated in the article.
          I will not scold Mr. Skomorokhov for a prejudiced attitude towards the military - "the author sees it this way", but even the title of the article is extremely offensive, as if the author was writing about some foreign army.
    2. Old tanker
      Old tanker 14 December 2021 07: 15
      +51
      Contractors buy positions of company foremen, storekeepers. You are a hereditary officer with solid seniority, but you don’t know this? There is a queue for a business trip to Syria among contract soldiers, although for money, but not everyone gets there.
      About the money on the card did not reach - really. The son demobilized this summer, without demobilization.
      So in order not to go nuts, it's worth reading Roman. Maybe you will see.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 14 December 2021 07: 22
        -37
        Thank you. Already received his sight) Company Chief? OK. Apparently I just missed these millionaires. Koreiko is resting. Storekeeper?) Where is this?) Syria. OK. Let's remember how many people passed through it?
      2. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 14 December 2021 08: 07
        +38
        Quote: Old Tanker
        Contractors buy positions of company foremen, storekeepers. You are a hereditary officer with solid seniority, but you don’t know this? There is a queue for a business trip to Syria among contract soldiers, although for money, but not everyone gets there.
        About the money on the card did not reach - really. The son demobilized this summer, without demobilization.
        So in order not to go nuts, it's worth reading Roman. Maybe you will see.

        Hello Sergey.

        I agree.
        What is written has a place to be.
        And me, the officer's son and the officer ... It hurts.
        It just really hurts.
        There were and will be bribes, but what is happening now ...

        I graduated from college in 92. and more than received "burdens and unnecessary."
        Not complaining. I wanted to serve and served. My whole life is connected with the Army.
        What happened then? ....
        - senior officers retired en masse.
        - the lieutenants went to civilian life immediately after graduation.
        - the middle link ... Those who had a "business streak" - left the Army. Who stayed?
        We, ideological and ... in general, those who do not know how to do anything, there are always such.
        The allowance was ridiculous, and he was also delayed.
        However, we went through the Caucasus like a knife on only one IDEA and stubbornness. TWICE. And they completed their tasks.
        And then, on this experience, this Army smashed the proud highlanders in South Ossetia.
        Without money and minimal (!!!) security.
        ...............
        Now everything has changed ..........
        Well what are they paying well now?
        All right.
        Well what do decent "fighting" pay?
        Wonderful.
        But the fact is that we, in the 90s, SERVED in the Army for an IDEA ..
        This is how we were raised.
        And now in the Army WORK for MONEY.
        This is indeed the case. And now they enter schools because "they pay well there."
        But Serve and work are different concepts.
        For the idea and for the money - these are ... incompatible categories.

        How to make sure that they SERVE for an IDEA and get a WORTHY salary for it ???
        Perhaps this is a question for those who lead us.
        Because there is an old wise saying:
        "It is not the Motherland that sends us to war, the Government sends us to the war, but we defend the Motherland."
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 14 December 2021 10: 12
          -11
          Not everything is so sad. Rather, not even at all. By the way, I understand you more than Roman. Moreover, your example is closer to me. Only you greatly underestimate how our parents are the generation that will replace us. I look at my eldest daughter and like a pancake the features of my family were transferred to her and just bastard. And although the dynasty may be interrupted on me (three girls), it will surprise me very much) Well, we are already discussing a new attempt for the kid)))
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 14 December 2021 11: 24
            +8
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Only you greatly underestimate how our parents are the generation that will replace us. I look at my eldest daughter and how damn it was the features of my family and just bastard

            Hello.

            No, not in any way.))
            Moreover, the current generation (18-25) is even better than us in some ways !!!
            I can see it with my own eyes.
            But here is the Ideology .... It as such does not exist, since the State does not have it.
            And we have what we need young people.))
            good
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 14 December 2021 13: 27
              -9
              Ideology is of course important. I don't argue with that. I just think that young people will find their own. The world is different for a long time. Of course I don’t ignore the good things in the past.
              1. Piligrim
                Piligrim 16 December 2021 01: 02
                0
                "I just think that young people will find their own." It is in vain that you relieve yourself of responsibility. Ideology is, first of all, basic concepts such as what is the mother, what is the father, what is the brother, what is the friend, etc. exactly "what", tk. to the question "who" any child will answer by pointing his finger at whom, and you should give the children exactly the understanding of what is behind this as a phenomenon. And what you call ideology is propaganda, this is another opera.
      3. MikhailRus
        MikhailRus 14 December 2021 09: 07
        +3
        Those like him do not receive their sight. They have long been lost.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 14 December 2021 16: 10
          -15
          The fact that you and the likes of Skomorokhov have long been lost is clear to everyone.
          1. MikhailRus
            MikhailRus 14 December 2021 16: 12
            +3
            Honor, would-be patriot
            https://www.mk.ru/social/2021/12/13/kosmos-gniyushhiy-iznutri-rossiya-skhodit-s-orbity.html
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 15 December 2021 13: 48
              +2
              I read it - but the question is what does this have to do with this topic?
              And the result of your cited article "So it turns out: hundreds of billions, if not trillions, are flying not into space, but into a pipe - mediocre and meaningless. All these publicized painted rockets and dashing promises are still covering up, in fact, the rapid collapse of the industry. But if nothing changes, excuse me, there is no political will to impose strict order by the most radical methods, space can remain Russian only in memories.
              Purely pulling an owl onto a globe and again inflating an elephant from flies - there is no collapse of the space industry - rockets make engines make the Angara A5 launch a cosmodrome build spaceships create cosmonauts prepare satellites to orbit and tourists already the same number of launches growing space exploration programs there are the same Luna 25 Exomars UV Spectrum Venus D there are no emergency launches, and there are no other emergency launches and nothing to do at 36 Roscosmos enterprises - so where the same "Rapid collapse of the space industry" Roscosmos has funding from 170 to 220 billion rubles a year for everything and something it is not clear that this author's MK flies into the pipe - mediocre and pointless - probably this is the new equipment for friction welding at the Progress RCC for the production of Soyuz 5 tanks

              These authors have only one direction - to plunge everyone on the topic as deeply into shit as possible by describing all the problems of temporary difficulties and further elevating them to a total absolute - the main thing is that a brainless hawala audience who only does what they live by impulses - and absorbs any garbage from the Internet I have probably read about 100 of such articles about space and not only since 2010, in each of them the same thing, and I want to ask - Are you guys tired of it yet? Welcome to real life without the delirium of patriotism, where there is good and bad, there are problems and solutions, and where you need not to live by impulses but to think and analyze with your head.
              1. MikhailRus
                MikhailRus 15 December 2021 13: 51
                +1
                Well, what else can you expect from a brainless audience eagerly awaiting news from Kiselev and Solovyov, and selflessly loving the party of power and the tsar.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 15 December 2021 16: 11
                  -3
                  Well, this is your audience and the Kiselevs and the Solovyovs, the same applies to yours - both Skomorokhov and this scribbler from whose MK you pinned me.
                  1. MikhailRus
                    MikhailRus 15 December 2021 16: 16
                    +3
                    I have not watched the zomboyaschik for 10 years. So it is not necessary, like a child, to throw your grievances on others.
                    And Roman Skomorokhov writes everything correctly. Don't like it, don't read it, But you'd better get out of here.
      4. Vladimir Kuznetsov_3
        Vladimir Kuznetsov_3 14 December 2021 19: 37
        +6
        The son is serving now, urgent, what Roman described is, maybe not on such a scale, but there is
    3. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 14 December 2021 07: 43
      +28
      Quote: carstorm 11
      And what positions a contract soldier can buy, I do not understand at close range. Well, what would you beat off this purchase according to your own words)

      Well, you give. I, when I served as an ensign in the OBS RTO, at AVVAUL (Armavir), then it was possible to get to grocery, clothes or fuel and lubricants warehouses only through family ties plus a bribe, I believe that these places paid off pretty quickly. But this is half the trouble, in order for me to transfer to a transport squadron, an onboard technician, I had to bribe my unit commander so that he would let me go. This is 1995-98.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 14 December 2021 07: 53
        -26
        Well, in the nineties there really was anything. My dad was then in the group leading the investigation on 220 base if you heard what it was. The conversation is about now. Plus, I do not deny individual points. It's just that Roman creates a system out of them. With which I refuse to agree because my experience and my life completely rejects it. I will repeat. I saw a lot of different bad things. But reading Roman and 5th like me, I have a feeling that we really live in different countries and served in different armies. There are a huge number of difficulties that need to be addressed. But when was it different?) In those years about which you write, I was just starting) As for the current staff for the contract, I think those who now serve a little more will tell you how to turn something serious there.
        1. ALARI
          ALARI 14 December 2021 08: 23
          +14
          Well, in the nineties, really all was - And that people have changed a lot? Or, with the onset of the new millennium, people suddenly became honest, there is no star on the shoulder straps, and appetites have grown.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 14 December 2021 08: 47
            -10
            I think no. Such were and will be.
            1. alekseykabanets
              alekseykabanets 14 December 2021 08: 58
              +26
              Quote: carstorm 11
              I think no. Such were and will be.

              Such people are now heading our country; today, not honor, but personal enrichment is at the forefront. And the army, just a mold of society, cannot differ from the rest of society. Take a look around.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 14 December 2021 09: 17
                -21
                This is your opinion. And I'm not going to talk about this topic.
                1. alekseykabanets
                  alekseykabanets 14 December 2021 09: 39
                  +24
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  This is your opinion. And I'm not going to talk about this topic.

                  The fact that the army is a mold of society is not an opinion, but an axiom, you should have known from school. I'm sorry you forgot about this. I am afraid that in the near future, we will all have to remember Soviet textbooks on social science and history.
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 14 December 2021 10: 37
                    -21
                    I'm talking about talking about the leadership of the state. I have not forgotten that. I'm just talking about a society of other opinions and yours is not even remotely objective.
                2. 2 Level Advisor
                  2 Level Advisor 15 December 2021 09: 16
                  +1
                  carstorm11, Dmitry, you remind me of my grandfather - who left in the 70s back in the 2002s - to whom I was a young lieutenant in 2002 - what was happening in the army and he said - yes it can't be - it doesn't happen .. I don't care until the end of the campaign and didn’t believe it .. But it didn’t change what I was talking about "my" army in 70 and he about his own from the XNUMXs .. so in "your" army everything was possible and it was different ..
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 15 December 2021 11: 13
                    0
                    I said somewhere that this could not be?) How could it be. Somehow, in one part, three chief financial officers changed in three years for you understand what reasons) Yes, and listening to my father and grandfather and what was going on in their time, I somehow just realized that at different times my troubles are above the roof. What's going on? Are there grabbers and other bad uncles in some places? And when was it different?) The price at different times is simply different, but the meaning does not change. Let's say my father used to carry fish and caviar. Lot. So what? Was the Soviet army rotten too?))) There have been and will be some cases. The system has lived and will continue to live. And I heard enough whining of young lieutenants) I myself was like that and also in the XNUMXs) And I also complained to my father) He did it and said what I just told you))) Cycle)
            2. ALARI
              ALARI 14 December 2021 08: 58
              -5
              A novel cannot create a system alone, a system is created by those thousands who successfully fit into the MO, by their behavior. Naturally, there are thousands of people who regularly serve and they don't even talk about them (but in vain), but a hundred people with sticky hands crosses everything and you start to think that such are the majority.
        2. Old tanker
          Old tanker 14 December 2021 08: 53
          +18
          But reading Roman and 5th like me, I have a feeling that we really live in different countries and served in different armies.

          Yes, imagine in different ones. Everything was written correctly by Aleks TV.
          We served for the idea, and now for the money. Moreover, they manage to get money, and not go to the service.
          I know one company commander (in which my son served), he does not go to the service, he moonlights in a babrber shop. They cannot dismiss, they are trying to transfer this "present" from the elite brigade to a regular unit in another city.
          Well, Roman doesn't make the system. It has been around for a long time. He just voiced the problem. And it's strange that you are not aware of this system, since dad was conducting an investigation on 220 bases ...
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 14 December 2021 09: 23
            -17
            Well, because I am not watching her in the form you are talking about. And the example you are talking about and I had. I used my absence. What do you mean they can't fire? Sabotaging the contract? A strange problem in our time, given the forced rotation of officers.
            1. Old tanker
              Old tanker 14 December 2021 09: 45
              +7
              So I wrote that they were trying to send a "gift" to another part. That is, to rotate.
              And dismissing an officer has always been difficult if he himself does not want to, with the exception of Serdyukov's transition.
              And yes, the gopher is also not visible, but he is))))
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 14 December 2021 10: 17
                -16
                So, according to the instructions from 09, a lot is not needed for this. The lists are submitted for rotation on a regular basis. A strange situation ... As for the gopher ... Schrödinger's cat is clearer to me)
                1. Old tanker
                  Old tanker 14 December 2021 10: 27
                  +7
                  Did I really say that you need a lot for rotation?
                  It has always been easier to shake things off than to fire them. But, while the essence, yes the case (the documents will go to the authorities, the order will take place, the extract will come) a company without a company commander. And such gifts are not in a hurry to a new place of service. It's good if the rotated one is not the same truant.
                  And then you do not know this.
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 14 December 2021 10: 33
                    -10
                    I'm not talking about that. This greatly changes behavior when there is a choice to go to, for example, to Skorodino or refuse and get under the article is possible) I'm more likely about the measure of psychological impact, or is it completely repulsed there?)
                    1. Old tanker
                      Old tanker 14 December 2021 10: 35
                      +6
                      Perhaps the key word.
    4. Glory1974
      Glory1974 14 December 2021 09: 48
      +8
      But why all these stories about buying positions, paying for business trips do not sound?) Maybe for the reason that individual cases of committing crimes are not a conveyor belt and it is simply strange to inflate them as a system?

      The army is the mirror of society. If there is demand, there will be supply. In the 90s, some did not want to go to Chechnya on business trips. As it calmed down a little, they began to ask to go for combat and a certificate of a DB veteran. We began to buy this opportunity.
      And then everything is on the knurled one.
      1. cornet2
        cornet2 14 December 2021 23: 23
        +3
        In the 90s, some did not want to go to Chechnya on business trips. As it calmed down a little, they began to ask to go for combat and a certificate of a DB veteran. They began to buy this opportunity. - In my town, even firefighters themselves quit, not to mention the Ministry of Internal Affairs ...
    5. Stas157
      Stas157 14 December 2021 10: 26
      +14
      Quote: carstorm 11
      I sometimes read Roman and freaking out from what I see ...

      Yes, you always go nuts here when someone questions your stabilizer! And in order not to constantly go nuts, just take off your rose-colored glasses. They really don't suit you!
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 14 December 2021 10: 44
        -16
        You somehow again understand my words in your own way) This is already becoming funny) I'm afraid I refused to take part in your political battles for a long time, but in my service I prefer to talk with those who know what it is.
  6. Far B
    Far B 14 December 2021 06: 12
    +36
    It is really terrible when officers prefer to write not to Putin and Shoigu, because they do not believe in the effectiveness of the commander-in-chief and the minister.
    After all, this is not only about the army - in almost all areas of life in the country there is such a bummer.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 14 December 2021 07: 00
      +34
      Quote: Dalny V
      After all, this is not only about the army - in almost all areas of life in the country there is such a bummer.

      Exactly.
      Everywhere.
      And from this sometimes it becomes just disgusting.

      To Article
      Effective high-level managers have already destroyed a lot. Today we are witnessing the complete inability of our industry to master the production of new models of tanks and aircraft, the complete degradation of the space industry, which turned into a nightmare culture, medicine and education.
      The novel simply passed this morning with this article. Not a theme, but a theme ... A definite plus for the author.
    2. Old tanker
      Old tanker 14 December 2021 09: 51
      +21
      Well, yes, two years ago my subordinate, having seen enough of a direct line with the President, wrote him a letter. I answered this letter of his. Then the answer was compared with my original. The main part is word for word. This is how my employees began to call my office "the President's Reception Room". laughing
      1. faiver
        faiver 14 December 2021 10: 39
        +17
        Well, yes, two years ago my subordinate, having seen enough of a direct line with the President, wrote him a letter. I answered this letter of his.
        - laughing , I had the imprudence to ask one question to our guarantor by e-mail, everything is exactly the same, the head of the department standing above us answered the question, oh, how long has it been ...
  7. Gendy
    Gendy 14 December 2021 06: 32
    +22
    Oranges will not be born from aspen. Now everything is clear where such critical problems with the NM hulls come from .. the advisors who buy a business trip and then go to beat off the investment fit into the reality that has developed in the hulls.
  8. Gardamir
    Gardamir 14 December 2021 06: 39
    +29
    Positions are bought everywhere in the police, tax ...
    In the morning, for some reason, I thought, but the current government does not even know how to celebrate holidays. They have it on June 12, they don't celebrate, but they make money.
    By the way, since the topic of Roman. Yesterday in the Komsomol member I read about the monument to the Nazis in the center of Russia. Yes, in Rossosh.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 14 December 2021 08: 23
      +3
      By the way, since the topic of Roman. Yesterday in the Komsomol member I read about the monument to the Nazis in the center of Russia. Yes, in Rossosh.

      Looks like they think that this is already history. Like Napoleon.
      Do you want a bust of the Fuhrer on the table? Easy. winked

      https://karamazoff.ru/tematika/nemeckaya-tematika?page=2
    2. MikhailRus
      MikhailRus 14 December 2021 12: 19
      +2
      Yes, we have it in the Voronezh region.
  9. Lair
    Lair 14 December 2021 06: 39
    +15
    The author is well done, writes on a very topical topic. Even officers in the army have been called "jackals" by the rank and file for 30 years. How the army will fight, which is led by jackals, is a big question.
  10. parusnik
    parusnik 14 December 2021 06: 56
    +10
    Today, a contract sergeant, laying out money for the position of platoon commander, and an officer for the position of battalion commander, practically BUY these positions.
    Did the Minister of Defense also invest in the position or did the social lift work? smile
    1. Lannan Shi
      Lannan Shi 14 December 2021 07: 18
      +31
      Quote: parusnik
      Did the Minister of Defense also invest in the position or did the social lift work?

      Invested. Back in 1993. Supporting the pogrom of the White House. It looks like the chair of one of the power ministers became the payment for the investment. Lifetime. And maybe hereditary. If we live, we will find out. yes
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 14 December 2021 07: 27
        +6
        Maybe hereditary.
        Like in the song:
        Social elevators stopped, social elevators froze .. smile In the UK, at one time, as it was delivered. I could get into a social elevator and go, go, but I could get there ... But I wanted to be right away ... please, a patent for every taste, only the price depends on the title ... The state and money traded in they went to the treasury ... well, it happened to the pocket, if with an overpayment .. laughing
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 14 December 2021 16: 17
          -12
          The USSR finished off these social elevators because they began to lift up all the cooks and combine operators Misha Gorbachevs, as well as builders who like to drink EBNs and others, to all management places in all cities and republics.
    2. lukewarm
      lukewarm 14 December 2021 09: 55
      +4
      This social elevator worked back in the late 80s, so to speak, on the first floor. And then he went and went. Read the biography - the guy was not easy then.
    3. aslan balayev
      aslan balayev 14 December 2021 11: 43
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      Today, a contract sergeant, laying out money for the position of platoon commander, and an officer for the position of battalion commander, practically BUY these positions.
      Did the Minister of Defense also invest in the position or did the social lift work? smile

      It took a long time to get up. You can see it up the stairs. From the back door. By fire department wink
  11. nikvic46
    nikvic46 14 December 2021 06: 56
    +8
    The desire to get something for the service has always been. But in my time, it was the officer corps who caught it. I am far from the problems of the army, but from conversations with the contract soldiers, I realized that something was going wrong. We have good relations with Israel. We need to learn something from their attitude to the army. For example, I do not understand why at the Parade, when showing the S-400, they say that they were brought from the Central Military District. It would be better to be silent. Why such a high relationship with India, if she most of all conducts exercises with the United States? However, already climbed into the jungle.
    1. aslan balayev
      aslan balayev 14 December 2021 11: 53
      0
      Quote: nikvic46
      The desire to get something for the service has always been. But in my time, it was the officer corps who caught it. I am far from the problems of the army, but from conversations with the contract soldiers, I realized that something was going wrong. We have good relations with Israel. We need to learn something from their attitude to the army. For example, I do not understand why at the Parade, when showing the S-400, they say that they were brought from the Central Military District. It would be better to be silent. Why such a high relationship with India, if she most of all conducts exercises with the United States? However, already climbed into the jungle.

      Nothing can be learned from Israel in relation to the Army. There is a completely different society.
  12. north 2
    north 2 14 December 2021 07: 00
    -34
    Speaking about how it was before and how it is now, the author, of course, means an army from the not so distant Soviet past and how then the army was, they say, ideologically strong, unmarketable, and what is now the downsized army of Russia compared to it. Obviously, this proposed essay is not the work of the remaining type of balabols-political officers of the SA, who then educated, educated and educated the army to the point that it did what even the Germans did not do during the Second World War. did not shoot! But the balabols-political officers brought up in Moscow in 1991 from tanks fired. And the planes of the Germans on the Red Square of Moscow did not land ...
    And let the author, together with his friend lieutenant colonel, explain not to us but to the combat pilots who returned from Syria that you, they say, did not defeat anyone in Syria, but they cut a lot of money into your pocket ... can slap And we, that we ...
    We can only spit after reading ...
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 14 December 2021 10: 00
      +3
      Quote: north 2
      combat pilots returning from Syria explains
      Those. do you want to convince everyone here that you flew there for free and did not receive anything for serving in Syria? laughing
    2. lukewarm
      lukewarm 14 December 2021 10: 13
      +3
      I agree with you in many ways, plus. BUT
      Quote: north 2
      And the planes of the Germans on the Red Square of Moscow did not land ...

      They sat down precisely thanks to the commanding tremor and "new thinking". Were too intimidated by the South Korean Boeing from 1983. And they saw, and they could shoot down (although not at all stages, so, he was lost). Your estimated period
      Quote: north 2
      the author, of course, means an army from the not so distant Soviet past and how then the army was, they say, ideologically strong, unmarketable

      is also far from the golden age. And the truth, apparently, is somewhere in between.
      1. Piligrim
        Piligrim 16 December 2021 01: 17
        +1
        You know why you got lost? In my opinion, Fursov announced that the spotty air defense coverage area was leaked.
        1. lukewarm
          lukewarm 16 December 2021 16: 53
          -1
          Easy. Well, the air defense was sharpened for other means of attack. What can the MiG 23 do with its speed?
  13. Lykases1
    Lykases1 14 December 2021 07: 00
    +1
    I don’t think everything is so sad, but the author is right in many ways. If ordered, the army will go to fight. And the fighters will die, because either the fathers of the commanders will invent something, or the fighters, according to the old Russian tradition, will take their duties carelessly. Not so long ago Chechnya 1-2, Georgia thundered. I do not think that a miracle will happen and something will change radically.
  14. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 14 December 2021 07: 36
    +24
    It would be strange, in the country, from top to bottom, riddled with corruption, and suddenly everything is not so in the army. There is complete order and everything is according to the charter.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. DerSamowar
    DerSamowar 14 December 2021 08: 14
    +11
    What can I say on the merits of the article: I retired on July 3, 2015, received 4000r and in total accumulated 16 thousand on the card for the service (including spending in the chip). From the extortions there were some insignificant amounts for powder, pens, notebooks, and some other equipment for the division. Military unit 54055, Kozelsk (Strategic Missile Forces).
    1. lukewarm
      lukewarm 14 December 2021 10: 17
      +5
      The son also served in the Strategic Missile Forces at this time. Kytlym. The picture is the same. Nobody robbed. The usual fees for needs. Weren't you at the training school in Mirny? smile They could even see each other, if they were.
  17. Konnick
    Konnick 14 December 2021 08: 20
    +2
    Unfortunately, the army is no longer an "Honorable Duty". But lacquered boots and caps ala the Ministry of Emergencies. Reforms in the army begin with the form and end with the form. A new minister will come and begin to change hats like his predecessors ...
    While on vacation in Tunisia, passing checkpoints in the Sahara, he envied the uniform of the military. The quality of the fabric, the shoes ... how it fits, it is fitted, any expensive.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. bandabas
    bandabas 14 December 2021 08: 41
    +2
    And besides the First and "Zvezda" there is RenTV. Everything is covered in chocolate.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 14 December 2021 16: 18
      -5
      Yes - for aliens, reptilians and all those accompanying them.
  20. Alexey RU64
    Alexey RU64 14 December 2021 08: 47
    -11
    The author dumped a bunch of far-fetched information. Of course, in the USSR it was not like that, they served for the idea, only no one stood up for it when it was being torn apart. But this is a question for the traditions of officer koi were destroyed in the USSR. I only left the Strategic Missile Forces in June. There, if they took a hundred rubles from a soldier for any need, they punish everyone up to and including dismissal. And as for the fact that not to pay the salary, it is generally fantastic for me ... I am a lieutenant colonel, for the first time I hear that you have to pay for positions. What should I pay? Yes, they fucked up the hell ... I only know about one that, according to rumors, he paid to become the chief of staff of the regiment. And so everyone grows calmly, but no one really wants to. Here is the fact that the attitude is bestial towards everyone, it is true. I don’t know how to Syria, but in order to transfer to the General Staff you have to pay and quite a lot, you have to pay to enter a military school, the soldiers themselves told me about the amounts and named the schools. Yes, and you also have to pay for the contract at the military registration and enlistment office, but not everywhere and not always. But about the fact that the state should protect, this is an interesting question and it is not about money.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 14 December 2021 13: 50
      +6
      Quote: Alexey RU64
      I am a lieutenant colonel, for the first time I hear that you have to pay for positions. What should I pay? Yes, they screwed into hell ...

      So you really served, and those who were not even close to it write to you about it.

      Quote: Alexey RU64
      And so everyone grows calmly, but no one really wants to.

      Of course, everyone immediately appreciates what it will result in, when there is less free time, and they start to gouge much more. So you will think about it ...
      Quote: Alexey RU64
      I don't know how to Syria, but to transfer to the General Staff you have to pay and quite a lot,

      And what is the point of paying for the transfer, even if the General Staff does not provide an apartment in Moscow, and you will travel for many years by electric trains and suburban buses to the service. And Saturdays are working all the time, and Sunday one just takes off as a rule. You also need to remember about business trips, which is why those who know all this cuisine and serve in a decent place will think hard about whether it is necessary, even if not a millionaire, to move to the Moscow region with a family, and even with a bunch of problems regarding the arrangement of children and wives.
      Everything in the General Staff is not smeared with honey, so you should not create illusions about serving in it. It used to be prestige, but in the current monetary assessment of everything and everyone, service in the General Staff is not so attractive.
      1. Alexey RU64
        Alexey RU64 14 December 2021 21: 06
        +3
        I agree. And the commentators, like the journalist, either served for a long time, or did not serve at all.
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 15 December 2021 09: 36
          +1
          Alexey and I agree with you and no .. I served in Tagil and we also didn't have that much like in the article .. or maybe this is the specificity of the Strategic Missile Forces .. but when I quit and decided to recover in Stavropol, I saw everything, as in the article .. Yes, and I have heard more than once personally confirmations about the financial component on various issues in the context, that this is the norm .. perhaps all this, of course, only works on the "asphalt" and not in the "forest" .. but I personally came across .. however, what a long way to go , it was also in the Strategic Missile Forces - for example, the transfer to the school back not for beautiful eyes happened .. but this again, on the asphalt ..
          1. Alexey RU64
            Alexey RU64 15 December 2021 11: 15
            +2
            So you put everything on the shelves. Yes, money was needed to transfer to Stavropol and in general to the city, it was also during the distribution. And this was always the case both in the USSR and in the nineties, and then it turned out that the army was suddenly bogged down. Yes, she's hired now, so what? They really don't take money from the soldiers now, they are severely punished for this. And besides, what nonsense. The salary is calculated by the ERC, and not by the command, how can it not come? How can she go to another card. A request is made and once the guilty parties get in the nose. Therefore, all this is strange. Yes, I can cite many stories, but not in this context, it is very provocative. And in Tagil I was once. Was in almost all divisions of the Strategic Missile Forces, except for the Trans-Ural and Yoshka, fate helped on business trips and service
  21. Woodman
    Woodman 14 December 2021 08: 59
    -1
    But this is a separate conversation, how we have all these "new" methods of warfare. But we will definitely talk.
    Somehow I can't believe the promises ... I remember one hot summer one author
    in our "Observer" system
    promised to return to one material next winter, to continue the topic ... The second winter has been going on for a long time, but ... As the people say - they wait for the promised three years? And then, you see, they will forget? And I think that I don't write because I have to admit that the last article was pure hype ... And fans of the talent may doubt the inability.
  22. MikhailRus
    MikhailRus 14 December 2021 09: 01
    +4
    I fully support the author!
    The army has disintegrated long ago, like all power structures. It's scary to imagine what will happen if there really is a real conflict.
    I left the army in 2008 when order 400 divided the officers. Squealing, sycophancy, and set-ups became normal. And after Shoigu it got even worse.
    A friend's son serves in long-range aviation. So he also said that interested persons are paid for business trips to Syria. They pay for everything!
  23. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 14 December 2021 09: 29
    +10
    Roman takes risks. They will throw him out of work, like me from the site, for such ideas) Nothing can be done! Our high and supreme power has built the system of governance of the old in exactly this way, and nothing else. Therefore, there is no one to complain - they are satisfied with everything there.
    I wonder where the country's leadership is planning to run when it stops? Hoping for your own subscription in the Western intelligence services? Doesn't their own experience of dealing with their spent traitors put them on guard? And as the end comes to her, so the traitor turns into an uncomfortable ballast.
    Or do they think that the deceived Vanka will die for them? Weird. Somehow Vanka has grown wiser over all these years, and he is not so deceived ... Maybe, after reading the libre, they are counting on the detachments? They say we will put machine guns in the rear of the Vanya, and the Vanka will show us massive heroism. In principle, such a brilliant idea corresponds to the intellectual level of our elite ...
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 14 December 2021 10: 26
      +4
      Quote: Mikhail3
      I wonder where the country's leadership is planning to run when it stops? Hoping for your own subscription in the Western intelligence services?

      History shows how Milosevic, Berezovsky and Khrushchev's son ended up in the "west". Fates are different, but they had one end. Let them test themselves ...
  24. lukewarm
    lukewarm 14 December 2021 09: 43
    +7
    A painful topic. Very. Moreover, in contrast to the Zvezda shopping and entertainment complex. Sinful, I look. As a psychotherapy. Supposedly at least something is good with us. But more and more often the fig in the pocket is curling itself. Well ... etaaa ... They also earn money on "Zvezda". What's on the topic, purely IMHO.
    1 I do not know for a full-scale conflict, how and who will behave. If the authorities justify their appointment ( No. ), and builds everyone as it should, then the military registration and enlistment offices will work. And after a couple of arrivals of tomahawks, even a manager left without a family, an office and a mortgage apartment will be in the line of recruits. The army is the same. Between drifts for the post, do they sometimes shoot somewhere? Unlike the saints of the 90s.
    2. Buying business trips to Syria. Apparently, we have both two parallel countries and several armies in one. Maybe in the Arbat VO it makes sense. Well, go out for a couple of days with an inspection, hang a medal later. And what about Roman Filippov, Alexander Prokhorenko? A lesser known artillery officer? I heard about the opposite phenomenon - on the contrary, no one was eager to go there, to put it mildly.
    3. For degradation - I agree completely. The system is rotten enough. And the army is no exception. The thesis "The people and the army are one" continues to work, in a distorted sense. When, at the end of the SSR, the army fought off attacks for bullying, the following was said: the whole country is like that, where to get another army from. And so it is now.
    I think we won't have to wait for a full-scale war. Everything will collapse without her. There are examples, there are signs. NATO will just have to wait a bit and do nothing.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 14 December 2021 16: 25
      -5
      NATO will just have to wait a bit. They have the same thing with this one described in the article, and armies for the most part are small existing on the principle of one for all on paper and each in fact for himself.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Glory1974
    Glory1974 14 December 2021 09: 55
    +9
    In the army, as in the whole country. Someone successfully sold the position or stole demobilization money. And someone was caught and thundered into the zone with the loss of rank. Someone took bribes and served, and someone was caught on a bribe and was dismissed ahead of schedule.
    In general, remembering Gleb Zheglov, one can say this: "The level of crime in a state is determined not by the presence of criminals, but by the state's ability to catch criminals."
    Is there crime in the army? Definitely there are, including the facts listed in the article. I personally came across many things.
    Fight crime in the army? They are fighting, he is a personal witness, and they fired officers and imprisoned them.
    But the level of crime, how effectively the fight is going, is difficult to assess. There is no data for years, there is no comparative analysis, there is no sample by articles of the Criminal Code.
    1. ALARI
      ALARI 14 December 2021 10: 07
      +10
      Well, if the state, instead of catching criminals in uniform, makes an imitation as in the case with the previous Minister of Defense and the hedgehog, then Zheglov's thesis does not work from the word at all. They catch people, but do not destroy the system that allows them to steal.
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 14 December 2021 11: 18
      +6
      Quote: glory1974
      .Someone takes bribes and serves, and someone was caught on a bribe, and early fired.
      In general, remembering Gleb Zheglov, one can say this: "The level of crime in a state is determined not by the presence of criminals, but by the state's ability to catch criminals."

      As I understand it, this is how our government calms itself. They say all these are "isolated cases". Somewhere, someone, sometime ... Alas. This is the sadness that not somewhere, but everywhere. Military rank is not a kilogram of nuts. You can't sell it alone) And you can't sell it in a small group either) And everything else too. There is nowhere without a built-in system.
      And that system suits everyone. Well, from the chiefs. Because it's all not just in your personal pocket. You can close your eyes as much as you like, but this is a SYSTEM. And the financial flows in it are very lively, that is, you bought the title? Your money was affectionately smeared all over the army elite, right down to the commander. And not a separate thief stole separately, do not lie to yourself.
      This is what is dangerous. More precisely, this system is a sentence. After all, it is universal, built throughout the country, in all sectors and areas. It is because of her that we are so shamefully "fighting the virus", and in other areas, we are all ... not good. This was precisely the choice that we and the Chinese went through. The Chinese have chosen the road to "work", and we are here - to steal, roll back, lie. Therefore, the Chinese now have the first economy in the world, and we ... our facade is beautifully painted! You yourself believe in him. The painted facade. It’s probably great to be a believer. Warmth to you in the world ...
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 14 December 2021 13: 07
        +4
        Military rank is not a kilogram of nuts. You can't sell it alone

        Easy, which is exactly what the impudent personnel officers do.
        that is, did you buy the title? Your money was affectionately smeared all over the army elite, right down to the commander.

        Do you think that when I assigned a junior sergeant to a soldier leaving for demobilization for a couple of bubbles, I immediately unfasten the commander's share from this? wassat
        I assure you, the commander does not take bribes for conferring titles, even if only because he has other sources of income.
        There is no troop system. There may be a system in a military unit, where an unscrupulous commander is in charge. Already in a district where many people are involved, there is no such system.
        The HR officer may be trying to make money out of it. But when contacting counterintelligence, he will be instantly seized for the causal place.
        If the demobels described in the article were written where they should be, they were paid everything, and the guilty were imprisoned. There is such a system.
        With all this, I do not deny the facts of corruption and theft of the system. But this has nothing to do with the sale of titles and positions, due to the large difference in numbers.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 14 December 2021 14: 15
          +9
          No, junior sergeant is a weak resource, bubbles are for you. But everything else ... Alas. It was the general's comrade who had "other sources of income." And Mr. General has just these. Because all the positions on which the promotion really depends are also, of course, purchased) And not only with a one-time payment, the monthly (marginally quarterly) amount is also available. All these amounts are carefully laundered and go higher. And then even higher. And further. So Mr. Commander gets a clean, like a tear, a slice. And that slice is huge. By the way, he is also obliged to share, and shares. Counterintelligence? You can be caught in two bubbles. And if someone from the personnel officers suddenly issued someone for himself, without rolling back at least 60% (and more often 80)%, then too. Then wow! Otherwise, counterintelligence sits quietly in a corner, it will not compete with the commander. And not only with the commander.
          Alas. All this does not make me happy. However, this is how capitalism works. Any capitalism. That is why every capitalist war begins so catastrophically for the defenders. People are already dying in the millions, and the quartermasters are still "stealing". And the titles bought, the positions bought, suddenly, absolutely suddenly, become real. And there are people who have bought who did not go to war at all.
          Remember grandfather Bzhe complained that people had grown wiser too? What was he talking about? That there was a time before. Well, while at least some order is brought in the rear, at the front, the platoon commander dies out of patriotism. And now the people of a harmful mind have picked up, trouble ...
  27. ivan2022
    ivan2022 14 December 2021 10: 08
    +3
    Uh-huh ... The society is highly spiritual and even "with braces!" ..... But the Duma only remembers well that its predecessors, "invincible and legendary," gouged out of tanks in 1993.

    We have, as it were, two souls and two realities. On the one hand, one, on the other, the other. And there are no fools, and here and there we have time to check in ... A normal person can vomit out of this general acting.
  28. Million
    Million 14 December 2021 10: 08
    +2
    in war it will now be possible not to shoot, but to negotiate for money.
    Sort of:
    "Well, guys, are we going to shoot or bargain? How much will you hand over the city?"
    - $ 200 per snout and your city
    - no, 100 is enough for you
    - well, 100, so 100, let's grandmothers, and we went home
    1. ALARI
      ALARI 14 December 2021 16: 31
      +4
      This is how it used to be under feudalism and absolutism. Why would masters die. Or after the battle, when the commoners were killed on each side, the winner invites the losing side to drink coffee, we are noble.
  29. Esaul
    Esaul 14 December 2021 10: 11
    +6
    Now the country still has an ideology - it is theft for unlimited enrichment. And this ideology came from the very top of the government, then spread to ministries and departments, then to regional authorities, and now it is already knocking on every door.
  30. Tank hard
    Tank hard 14 December 2021 10: 16
    +14
    I must say that Skomorokhov touched on a rather painful topic here. This is his opinion and this opinion is shared by many, believe it or not. There are problems and they are multiplying. The people's trust in power, when it falls, breaks through the bottom. The authorities are doing everything for this, introducing some kind of QR codes after the countries that are members of NATO, an ambiguous vaccination company with a not very clear substance. Migration policy, when in Russia there are already millions of visiting young people setting their own rules. The police, which are not in a hurry to help ordinary citizens, but are ready to punish for the absence of a mask on their face. Against this background, many of my acquaintances leave the police (their places are taken by citizens of "Russian nationality") and the armed forces. They tell me that everything is rotten and they have no confidence in the current government and believe that the country is being led to collapse. And these are young people who served in the Airborne Forces, strong, athletic, courageous and decisive. A situation is brewing about which we (who were born in the USSR) were told in history lessons in schools, this is when the upper classes cannot, and the lower classes do not want. And what are they shouting at us in the media? About waxers and antivaxers, about QR codes, without which in the future it will be impossible to get out of the house, reach the destination, and finally buy food! And this despite the fact that two-thirds of the population have not been vaccinated, do not want to, do not believe. And the army is that not people? Do they have no parents, spouses, children? And business that suffers huge losses due to restrictive measures (not all masks and vaccines are sold), are they not citizens of the Russian Federation? An explosive situation created by the leaders themselves. So, what's the topical article from Roman. I support him. Not everything is as great as some people think.
    Well, on the road for some who think that everything is under control with migration, this is in the capital of the Russian Federation, fresh from the frequent:
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 14 December 2021 16: 34
      -12
      Now new rules for migrants will be introduced with regards to their passport data, registration and health - fingerprints, tests, etc.
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 14 December 2021 18: 13
        +5
        Quote: Vadim237
        Now new rules for migrants will be introduced with regards to their passport data, registration and health - fingerprints, tests, etc.

        This "now" should have been a long time ago. but there are already millions of them in the country, they are not going to leave anywhere, many have received and are receiving citizenship. Well, and most importantly, all these are unsupported words. There is nothing easier than just saying, saying, not doing it. The video shows who is more in Moscow. How are you or anyone else going to control them? now, I think, the riot police will not help here either. Another - blah, blah, blah ... I'm tired.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 15 December 2021 14: 01
          -2
          In the bulk, 60% of the entire flow of the CIS comes to Russia for permanent residence from Ukraine. And now there are not so many who have come in large numbers as it was before the Pandemic, and at least half of them have not returned to Moscow, they have now begun to leave for other countries from the CIS to where working conditions and wages are better.
          1. Tank hard
            Tank hard 15 December 2021 15: 05
            +1
            Quote: Vadim237
            In the bulk, 60% of the entire flow of the CIS comes to Russia for permanent residence from Ukraine. And now there are not so many who have come in large numbers as it was before the Pandemic, and at least half of them have not returned to Moscow, they have now begun to leave for other countries from the CIS to where working conditions and wages are better.

            Are you a "professional falsifier" of facts, or what? Of these, about which video?
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 15 December 2021 16: 37
              -1
              No one distorts anything - we even have janitors from tajikistan uzbekistan three times less than four friends working in construction complained about a large shortage of workers half of those working from the CIS in 2020 piled up and have not returned now through my connections in the regions they are looking for new workers, but out of 10 they find a maximum of 5. And what do you give me a video about the refutation of the fact that migrants commit fewer crimes? I wrote something about this?
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 15 December 2021 16: 51
              -1
              The above-described law FZ274 01.07.2021/XNUMX/XNUMX on the entry of migrants from next year will begin to work - that is, it has already been adopted.
              1. Tank hard
                Tank hard 15 December 2021 20: 55
                +1
                Quote: Vadim237
                No one distorts anything

                Quote: Vadim237
                The above-described law FZ274 01.07.2021/XNUMX/XNUMX on the entry of migrants from next year will begin to work - that is, it has already been adopted.

                Well, let's see, but for now we have what we have, and these are whole divisions in the center of the country from young people of an alien culture. Instead of bacchanalia with QR codes (apart from harm, they bring nothing to the country, people and IMHO leadership). it would be better to do the necessary things. But so far only blah. blah. blah. and the fall of all respect for power among the people. What is this guide that digs under itself ?! Tin.
                Quote: Vadim237
                You give me a video about the refutation of the fact that migrants commit fewer crimes - I wrote something about this?

                all these are links in one chain leading to the collapse of the state, I showed the video, I don't know who left there. but there are more than enough remaining in the video. Do not solve this problem, it = death of the state.
  31. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 14 December 2021 10: 40
    +7
    Coverage of the problems of the army in the press, and not only the army, is right, it's good, BUT .. it doesn’t have an effect, especially on our website, which is still not multimillion-dollar.
    Roman, if you have facts, documents that may be evidence in a criminal case (because you cannot sew what you wrote to the case), then make certified copies and hand over to the deputy from the opposition party in the Duma, if there is one for your constituency for a deputy request to the General Prosecutor's Office to the Military Prosecutor's Office (though even there I can ask for money for the request, before it was a well-oiled business in the State Duma).
    If the request is made and you have a copy of it in your hands, publish it in the CM and the Internet.
    Then I think it will be a real concern for the army and the elimination of problems, well, at least for the military unit in Valuyki.
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  33. Fitter65
    Fitter65 14 December 2021 11: 39
    +1
    It is good that there was no conflict with NATO on Ukrainian soil. I can imagine how the personnel of the same 3rd motorized rifle division would have fled, simultaneously shooting their internal enemies.
    That is, not yet knowing the morally business qualities of the personnel, immediately write the entire 3 motorized rifle division into shorts and deserters - this is cooler than MSS helicopters that do not have winches. I must say right away that as a person who has served in the troops all his adult life, and after retirement he began to work in a military unit, that is, a person who knows the Armed Forces not from a swoop but from within, at least 98% of the article is a complete rush.
  34. victor_47
    victor_47 14 December 2021 12: 07
    +2
    And what can Ukrainian soldiers, the majority of Russians in their language and mentality, fight for ?! An alternative to the fulfillment of military duty can be desertion or surrender, which was a shame for the Russian soldier at all times. The Ukrainian soldiers are not in danger of surrender to their Russian comrades, except for the subsequent return home after the end of hostilities. But for Russian soldiers, surrender to the Bandera killers (namely, they will deal with prisoners) is threatened with physical destruction after prolonged abuse. The one that the Russian army will fight, and will fight successfully!
    PS. It is better not to talk about NATO soldiers at all, here hatred for the fierce enemies of our country is in our blood ...
  35. Nimnul
    Nimnul 14 December 2021 12: 10
    +4
    Roman Skomorokhov, as always, "exaggerates" so much that he wants to put on a white shroud and quietly crawl into the cemetery. There have always been problems in the Armed Forces, even in the valiant Red Army. Remember 1941, when practically untrained soldiers were led in frontal attacks on the mechanized formations of the Wehrmacht. Without artillery and air force support. Even then, there were enough fools, reckless, illiterate, who did not spare their soldiers. And in 1944 and 1945, when the Germans were driven into their lair, there were also a lot of mistakes. Although they have already learned how to fight, they poured the European soil abundantly with the blood of Russian soldiers. Even where it was still possible to show cunning, ingenuity and not lead your units to the slaughter. Russians have such a mentality. Until the thunder breaks out, the man does not cross himself. In a stressful situation, our people are ready and will perform feats. It was 200 years ago, and 100 years ago, and it will be now. But you wrote correctly that there must be an ideological basis. So that a soldier knows what he must give his life for ... I served in 2003. And then there was "hazing", pulls flourished, indiscriminate drunkenness, drug addiction. There were a lot of problems of a very different nature. But at the time, I believed in my officers. Yes, they were not without sin. Someone traded in spare parts and fuel because they needed to feed their families. Some officers (higher ranks) completely shamelessly stole and used the labor of their subordinates (soldiers and sergeants). But I always had the confidence that my foreman and commander (albeit in a drunken stupor) would give their lives for Russia without hesitation. For there are practically no random people in the Armed Forces. A madhouse in the sun has always been. At all times, reverence for rank, open sycophancy and tyranny flourished. But everyone must admit that the conditions of service of the current "conscripts" and those guys who happened to serve in the dashing 90s and at the beginning of the "noughties" simply cannot be compared. Now you can serve. This is evidenced by a small percentage of the "mowers" from the army. And now a lot of problems arise due to the fact that parents turn their children into "mama's" sons, absolutely not adapted to anything .... Young people turn into "nerds" ... Of course, it will always be hard to bear the army burdens like that. If a young man has never lifted anything heavier than a smartphone in his life and cannot even pull himself up a couple of times ... Who is to blame for this? Officers?
  36. Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 14 December 2021 12: 25
    +3
    Going on a business trip to Syria? No problem. Pay
    In the UK, a soldier receives the same pay whether he is serving in Iraq or in Katterick. So, by the way.
    1. akarfoxhound
      akarfoxhound 14 December 2021 20: 25
      +1
      And in the USA, depending on the point, it is not the same, so what?
  37. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 14 December 2021 12: 33
    +8
    I don’t think this is bad
    Apparently, the army will simply become (if not already) another place where people simply earn money by providing protection services

    We exist within commodity-money relations, our entire society is tied to money, and even if something formally exists as "free", it is also paid for, it is also collected from someone. It is worth separating boots from eggs and parrots - for each LABOR must be paid in proportion to this work. If a person is paid (and no matter what we call it, allowance, salary, salary) as a slave, he will be a slave - disenfranchised, unmotivated, at the very bottom of the social ladder. And it doesn't matter if they rub him in that he is doing something high and honorable - the eyes see it (although in our society there are a lot of people who live in constant self-deception). It's the 21st century, a modern Defender must be a specialist in his field. All these bast shoes in kirzach and with "allowance" of 2k each is really heresy overgrown with moss from the times of Peter the Great. And this heresy will be followed by the guts of other anachronisms - serfdom, corruption, etc. Do not rely on the fact that "when it worked" - when it was a completely different system, from top to bottom. And some things do not work because they are effective - but because the parts fit very tightly.
    When I once again hear that we laid another thousand-kilometer pipe or someone again stole several billions - I understand that there is money in our country, but that different well-fed faces continue to lead a luxurious life with yachts, villas and vineyards - it is necessary that at the other end of the beam were sacred victims of similar existential distortions.
    So it is not necessary to perceive all this as a "debt" or "norm" - in a commodity-money society there are no "unpaid" debts, and all this is clearly not the norm for 60 years already.
  38. Harold est
    Harold est 14 December 2021 13: 43
    -2
    Eeeeeh, again the level of the story "one grandma said" and "an acquaintance of my friend works you know where" ... I, of course, also for all the good and against all the bad, but populism is not worth it, we already have enough of them, we should read at least a line on the case.
  39. Al Asad
    Al Asad 14 December 2021 13: 48
    +10
    He served as an urgent under Serdyukov
    I did not notice any special gesture from the outside. They did not cheat for money (and then they received 4 times less)
    The officers in general were of good human qualities. They were released on dismissal (although they were banned in the unit) for some useful little things for the company and less often for themselves. But this was even before the sharp increase in monetary allowance for the military.
    Everything always depends on the specific part. But the army in those days was of course in a sad combat state, in my opinion.
    Although they did not get out of the exercises almost, but the military equipment in the unit was almost without maintenance.
  40. your vsr 66-67
    your vsr 66-67 14 December 2021 13: 49
    +14
    Nightmare! He served urgently from 1966 to 1969. No hazing, no bullying. From 67 to 69 in the crew of AN 12. KK everyone, I repeat, every day brought me a pack of Belomor! He smoked Belomor himself. Well, of course, except for the weekend. At first I fought: "No need for a commander, I have cigarettes. What is he to me, how much do you get? So take it and shut up!" So Belomor smoked for two years. Maybe I served in the wrong unit?
  41. gregor6549
    gregor6549 14 December 2021 13: 50
    +6
    The article is strong, but not everything was as it was, as the author of the article says.
    Let's start with the fact that bribery in the Red Army (and before it in the Royal Army) has always flourished. Only the forms of bribes and their value changed. If at some time the bribe was paid with greyhound puppies, then at other times it was gold, etc. The USSR Armed Forces and then the Russian Armed Forces also sinned.
    The same goes for theft. For example, being on a business trip in Nizhny Novgorod in the 70s, I witnessed how one captain was responsible for the logistics of the air defense unit of the Country and with whom I lived in the same hotel room, worked tirelessly to hide very solid thefts of food that took place in this unit during its departure for live firing at Kapustin Yar. And every evening our room was visited by cunning warrant officers who watered and fed the poor captain until he completely lost consciousness. And then the pretty drunk captain tried to teach me how to live and hide the ends in the water.
    But these are trifles. The most rampant theft in the USSR Armed Forces began under the "great peacemaker" Gorbachev, and in particular from the beginning of the withdrawal of foreign groups of the USSR Armed Forces from abroad. Our guys at that time were engaged in debugging the first serial sets of ACCS "Maneuver" received for equipping the GSVG and saw so many interesting things there that it would have been enough for more than one criminal case. But talking about it loudly was fraught. And the one who nevertheless dared to blather something could receive a parcel with explosives or a similar present by mail.
    I also heard about the dark deeds happening in such a noble family as the Ministry of Emergency Situations. In principle, it was quite easy to steal while serving in this Ministry, since it was almost impossible to keep a strict record of where all the goods sent to the affected regions of Russia and foreign states went. Well, where accounting is impossible, anything is possible. By the way, a similar situation was during the Second World War, when the partisans were dropped from aircraft hundreds of tons of cargo to track the destination of which was also impossible.
    And about motivation. It was the lack of proper motivation among a significant part of the servicemen of the Kyrgyz Army that largely contributed to the fact that such servicemen dropped their weapons, surrendered and fled through the forests and swamps, and they believed that it was hardly worth giving their only life for those who were their or their fathers and grandfathers by force drove into collective farms, took away crops and livestock, dooming their families to starvation, rotted in the camps and shot. At the same time, they hoped that captivity was not so terrible if the surrendered person was not a communist and not a Jew. (in this, of course, they cruelly miscalculated, since the plans of the Germans did not include feeding millions of prisoners at all, and most of these prisoners simply died of hunger, cold, disease, etc.)
    A really serious motive for resisting the Germans was Stalin's decree on the deprivation of food cards from the families of the Red Army soldiers who deserted or surrendered, and on the use of other methods of "social protection". That surrender or desertion doomed the deserter's family to death by starvation, and then they had to choose: either to die in battle and thereby save the family, or raise our hands in the air, save themselves, but ruin the family. It was later that information about the horrors of German concentration camps began to reach the servicemen of the Kyrgyz Army. And at the beginning of the war, many had a blind belief that the Germans were people too (the grandmother told me that during the Civil War the Germans were soft and fluffy), and when they ended up in the camps and began to bend over from hunger and thirst, nothing could be changed.
  42. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 14 December 2021 13: 52
    +7
    Thank you, Roman, for the fact that such topical topics reveal not only the negative aspects of army life (we all remember very well the generals and colonels from the Russian Guard - the same power department):
    Moscow. November 30th. INTERFAX.RU - The main military prosecutor's office suspected four generals and three colonels of the Russian Guard of embezzlement and abuses associated with the introduction of the information system (IS) "Real Estate" in the structure of the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Russian Guard

    but also the ins and outs of some users, for whom the principle of life has become:

    ==========
    On the topic or in unison, I will add that for several years in a row the attitude to military pensioners as to discarded material that is not worth attention has led to the indexation of military pensions below the inflation rate. I consider this an action of a certain group of persons responsible for the quality of payments (AT LEAST) according to the letter of the law.
    Good luck to you!
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  47. Per se.
    Per se. 14 December 2021 14: 34
    +9
    The picture that is drawn from the hits is not very beautiful. The main problem is that “effective managers” have made the army the same tool for earning money as anything else in the country.

    What is surprising, the army is turning into a structure that provides protection services ... The managers do not have the mind to create jobs, build new plants and factories, but save on hard workers - please, optimization, downsizing. And, everything for sale, especially from freebies, oil, gas, achievements from the USSR. New, only additional gas pipelines and shopping centers.

    If so, then only the "air tax" and the use of municipal sidewalks. The army is not in a vacuum, they used to say "The people and the army are united", which is one now, mainly opportunists and renegades in the United Russia ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 14 December 2021 16: 46
      -16
      Menagers have no mind, create jobs, build new plants and factories -
      New, only additional gas pipelines and shopping centers. - Dofig and more are building factories and factories and roads of logistics centers and nuclear power plants, hydroelectric power plants, and the rest of the country is not a big one. And the army for money is like that all over the world - and the fact that someone buys positions and the soldiers rob it is an analysis of the military police and the prosecutor's office.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 14 December 2021 16: 52
        +12
        Quote: Vadim237
        Dofiga and more are building factories and factories and roads of logistics centers and nuclear power plants, hydroelectric power plants, and the rest of the country is a big one.

        Maybe enough fairy tales, Vadik?
        We have already discussed that almost all of your plants and factories are geared towards exporting resources from the country, the money from the sale of which practically does not return to the country.
        1. businessv
          businessv 14 December 2021 17: 26
          +5
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          money from the sale of which practically does not return to the country.
          What is enshrined in the law, which allows the currency received from export operations not to be returned to the country https://www.vedomosti.ru/business/news/2021/06/28/876017-putin-utverdil-otmenu-repatriatsii-valyutnoi-viruchki -dlya-nesirevih-eksporterov
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 14 December 2021 20: 16
            +5
            Quote: businessv
            What is enshrined in the law, which permits the currency received from export operations not to be returned to the country

            Moreover, this even affected the sale of gold, which the Central Bank of the Russian Federation decided not to include in the list of reliable investments, preferring the dollar, which does not grow in price like gold, but loses. Gold was sold to the UK, with 4,5 bn. dollars increased the package of investments in US GKOs.
            At the same time, Western investors are getting rid of Russia's state debt obligations, and in two months they have withdrawn almost two billion dollars.
            But uryaklam does not care, Vadik sees all the breakthroughs. Of course, I understand that medication can achieve any state, but not so much. laughing
            1. businessv
              businessv 14 December 2021 23: 46
              0
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Moreover, this even affected the sale of gold, which the Central Bank of the Russian Federation decided not to include in the list of reliable investments, preferring the dollar, which does not grow in price like gold, but loses.

              Yes, I was shocked when I read the news about the legalization of the robbery of the country, signed by the President of Russia! And silence! Neither the left, nor the right, nor the liberals! Everyone is happy, they will start looking for something to sell !?
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 15 December 2021 16: 42
                0
                "Yes, I was shocked when I read the news about the legalization of the robbery of the country, signed by the President of Russia!" Yes, it's just that you yourself came up with some kind of crap -
                “Ingots from Russian factories fly mainly to London, which is the world's main hub for precious metals trading.
                In October, 30,3 tons of Russian gold, or 92% of exports, went to Britain for a total of $ 1,7 billion.
                Another 0,9 tons of gold was exported to Germany, 0,6 tons - to Kazakhstan, 0,5 tons - to Switzerland, 0,4 tons - to Belarus, 0,2 tons - to Armenia.
                At the end of last year, gold exports from Russia increased by 160% after the Central Bank of the Russian Federation stopped purchasing precious metals for reserves in April, and the government began to issue general export licenses to producers, allowing them to export all gold that is mined in the country.
                The banks actively joined in the export, accumulating ingots in storage facilities, and during the year the export of gold reached 320 tons, exceeding the domestic production (290 tons).
                Revenues from its sale reached $ 18,5 billion. The currency has helped patch the balance of payments of an economy that has lost revenue following the collapse in oil prices.
                "In June 2021, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law softening foreign exchange controls for gold exporters.
                They were exempted from the requirement to necessarily credit the proceeds to Russian accounts. ”This law does not in any way exempt miners and sellers from paying taxes, all of their mined gold is recorded as profit.
                1. businessv
                  businessv 15 December 2021 17: 02
                  +2
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  This law does not in any way exempt miners and sellers from paying taxes; all their gold mined is recorded as profit.
                  I have not written a word about gold, your post is not at the right address, as for the law, have you read the text yourself? Please read, after we will argue if there is a topic. With regard to gold, my opinion applies only to domestic consumption, within the country. It should not be subject to the law on VAT, this would solve the problem of protecting the ruble (personal savings) for the people, and secondly, no currency would lie under the mattresses, it would be purchased only by tourists or enterprises - importers, to a limited extent. IMHO, this experience of the PRC is clearly to my liking!
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 15 December 2021 14: 08
              -1
              "Gold was sold to Great Britain, while the package of investments in US GKOs was increased by $ 4,5 billion." In 2013 it was 150 billion - now how many of them are 6 - 8 billion, which is a big investment. Do not make your brain friend zero in economics and finance. Better to do your store with left disks.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 15 December 2021 22: 26
                +2
                Vadik, you would not be stupid in extremes, in your Putin's capitalist frenzy.
                What does 2013 have to do with it when it comes to the sanity of the country's financial institutions in 2021? fool
                And change the record, left discs ran out 12 years ago. I have been working with my hands for a long time, and much better than some with my head! wink
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 15 December 2021 14: 05
          +1
          And what is most important is that people have work and pay taxes - but the fact that the owners dispose of the profit as they want is like my personal I am the owner, I have foreign buyers in addition to domestic ones, I will export them and I will invest the profit in whatever I want.
  48. Lena Petrova
    Lena Petrova 14 December 2021 15: 16
    -1
    Quote: Dimy4
    For that state system, so to speak "For Putin and the oligarchs", no one has a desire to fight.

    And that is true - first we will hold new elections, take everything and divide it from the oligarchs, choose a new Duma, and then (maybe) we will go to war. And NATO will wait a couple of years. So let's do it, thanks.
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