Military Review

Indian contract: Rafale crashes into the pipe?

52

Sales of 2009 Rafale fighters to Brazil in 36, “historical a breakthrough, ”according to former President Frances N. Sarkozy, 126 aircraft to India ... The unsaleable Rafale began to gain momentum. But in Brazil, false consent did not turn into a contract, and in India negotiations were stalled even before the Indian government weakened under the blows of corruption scandals that could lead to a review of this deal.

The contract for the sale of 126 fighters to India was practically on ointment, the then ministers said. Only trivial things remained to be settled: the specification of materials, delivery time, weapon systems, pilot training. Too many little things of "incredible complexity", these words belong to M.P. Konez (Marianne Pierre Conesa), the former head of the Office of Strategic Affairs, which is responsible for export policy. According to him, at least a year must pass before the final signature on the contract, and he does not exclude his postponement depending on the results of the negotiations.

If the majority of French media at the beginning of the year expressed unbridled joy about this extraordinary commercial and industrial success, worth 9,2 billion dollars, very few, including the blog of Jean Guisnel, noted that it was not a contract, and that negotiations only have begun. “The point is that the Rafale fighter is offered by the manufacturer by Dassault Aviation at a price lower than that of the Eurofighter Typhoon. Therefore, special negotiations will be conducted between India and France. They will deal with the delivery of ready-made fighters to 16 and the assembly at HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited), the remaining 110, whose components will be supplied by one of the 500 suppliers employed today in the production of Rafale. ”

Officially, India announced that it reserves the right to announce its decision before 31 in March 2013, when the fiscal year will be completed. That is, as in the Brazilian case, when the process continues, but France is no longer the favorite, and the political situation turns out to be much more complicated than it seemed before.

Germans renew pressure

According to the Parisien newspaper, “two independent experts from the Committee for discussing the terms of the contract, the official commission that is in charge of exclusive negotiations in India, questioned the procedure, which led to the conclusion that the proposal of the Rafale group is financially preferable to the proposal of the European consortium Eurofighter, led by England and Germany. The Indian Minister of Defense made it clear that he would not stop before the cancellation of the contract, “if there were violations during the tender procedure”. Not to mention the corruption scandals that threaten the Indian Prime Minister, and whose resignation may suspend ongoing negotiations.

An auspicious moment that Rafale competitors will not fail to take advantage of. The Times of India newspaper conveys the words of A. Shockenoff (Andreas Schockenoff), a deputy from the Social Democratic Party and a close associate of A. Merkel: “Negotiations took place between the German representatives and the Indian side, and I can report that the negotiations are not closed. As far as I know, the Indian side has no formal commercial obligations. Eurofighter manufacturers are still finalizing their proposal, which will be the subject of negotiations between the European consortium and the Indian government. ”

Strategic advantage

The ringing of the bell was also heard from Russia, where the head of the FSMTC noted that "he has information that a new proposal for participation in the tender is on the agenda." Smoke in the eyes? In any case, this is an honest struggle on the part of those competitors who do not expect to surrender without a fight. Russia participates with the creation of a fifth-generation fighter jointly with India, and has proposals that are difficult to refuse.

Rafale still has some advantages related to its performance characteristics, cost of maintenance, similarity with the Mirage 2000 fighter, which is already in service with the Indian Air Force. Given strategic considerations, the choice of Eurofighter will force India to fight four different suppliers. Not to mention the risk of embargo, and here France can be considered as a more reliable partner, especially in relation to the Pakistani opponent of the Indians.
Originator:
http://www.marianne2.fr/
52 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. spender
    spender 18 September 2012 11: 32
    +6
    We (Russia) benefit from this "drain", the competitor is removed wink There, due to this contract, they wanted to keep production, and now everyone, let them fly on foreign ones, is in the "furnace" winked
    1. Rider
      Rider 18 September 2012 12: 17
      -21
      The aircraft carrier "Gorshkov" flies into the chimney with exploded boilers

      http://vz.ru/news/2012/9/17/598395.html
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 18 September 2012 12: 23
        +15
        http://www.vz.ru/news/2012/9/18/598607.html

        who to believe then? You are so categorical, it simply touches ... Especially about the blown up boilers))) forgot to add about 100500 thousand of the dead (God forbid) and about the fact that Putin is a bastard)))


        Orshavin is laughing at you ...
        1. mivmim
          mivmim 18 September 2012 14: 18
          -3
          Quote: klimpopov
          who to believe then? You are so categorical, it simply touches ... Especially about the blown up boilers))) forgot to add about 100500 thousand of the dead (God forbid) and about the fact that Putin is a bastard)))

          Did you understand what you made? laughing
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 18 September 2012 14: 37
            +1
            You apparently are not very ... ABOUT WHAT blown up boilers are in question, a photo link or what else is a studio! Notice the link I provided from the same site info! Trolls ...
            1. Hysnik-Tsuzoy
              Hysnik-Tsuzoy 18 September 2012 23: 09
              +1
              After our phenomenally reconstructed brick-iron Gorshkov, the Indians will swear for another hundred years at the words "Russian weapons" - alas, this is already a reality.
          2. crazyrom
            crazyrom 18 September 2012 23: 23
            0
            Quote: mivmim
            Did you understand what you made? laughing


            Yes, everyone remembered except you ...
        2. almost demobil
          almost demobil 18 September 2012 18: 21
          +2
          Quote: klimpopov
          Orshavin is laughing at you ...

          Orshavin goes to the opera with the whole team angry
      2. spender
        spender 18 September 2012 12: 25
        +5
        Quote: Ryder
        The aircraft carrier "Gorshkov" flies into the chimney with exploded boilers

        How weak you are wassat could bend abruptly using applications rusty slop, etc., again mention the brickwork ... wassat
        But in fact, Gorshkov continues to test, flights from him are in normal mode, quietly holds a speed of 20 knots hi
      3. vpm
        vpm 18 September 2012 13: 30
        0
        Link:
        According to a source preparing the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier for sea trials, the problem is that the Indian side has abandoned the traditional thermal insulation of steam boilers - asbestos, citing this as an increased danger to the crew. Therefore, the boiler designer - the Special Design Bureau of Boiler Building (SKBK) - had to look for a similar option: instead of asbestos, the KVG-3D steam boilers were lined with refractory brickwork. In 2005, the Baltic Shipbuilding Plant was directly involved in the creation of steam boilers for the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier.

        The client is always right, what did you want. With the Indians, by the way, this is a fairly typical problem, first they put forward requirements that go against technological processes and sometimes simple common sense, and then they pay a second time to do it right. And the Indians will not be able to abandon Gorshkov / Vikramaditya, the first is almost the only one where they can get an aircraft carrier for that kind of money, and the second - a lot of money has already gone to this project. Now, probably they will not argue about asbestos.
        With Rafal and MMRCA, the situation will not be very different, except if adjusted for the difficult political situation inside India itself. If the tender is not canceled, they can heavily load Dasault with various additional requirements, and it’s completely not necessarily technically justified.
      4. Leisure
        Leisure 18 September 2012 15: 18
        +1
        God, everything was gone, everything was gone .... boilers exploded guard ..
        In white light, like a pretty penny.
        1. Armata
          Armata 18 September 2012 15: 22
          +3
          Quote: Lazer
          God, everything was gone, everything was gone .... boilers exploded guard ..
          In white light, like a pretty penny.
          Nothing exploded there. All specialists do not say anything except that it is too early to panic. And here already homegrown with their own conclusions (a real specialist does not draw conclusions without seeing what is actually there, it's a bad form).
      5. karbofos
        karbofos 18 September 2012 16: 02
        +1
        look for joy do not choke on saliva.! Can you say something good about Russia in general? I'm waiting for an answer, but apparently I can’t wait
        1. gor
          gor 19 September 2012 10: 24
          -1
          and you yourself can say something good? I’m also waiting for an answer))))))))))))))))))))
      6. esaul
        esaul 18 September 2012 17: 16
        0
        Quote: Ryder
        The aircraft carrier "Gorshkov" flies into the chimney with exploded boilers



        Admiral Gorshkov's boilers overheated

        According to her source close to Rosoboronexport, the boilers went out of order when the aircraft carrier first entered the Barents Sea from the Sevmash dock and reached its maximum speed. It turned out that the heat insulation of the boilers - the brickwork - could not stand it. It was imposed on the boilers instead of asbestos, which was opposed by India, motivating the refusal by the increased danger of silicates for the crew.

        http://www.bfm.ru/news/2012/09/17/u-admirala-gorshkova-peregrelis-kotly.html
    2. VAF
      VAF 18 September 2012 12: 24
      +8
      Quote: spender
      We (Russia) benefit from this "drain", the competitor is removed


      Lyosha, hello, +! This ... "news" is already with such a beard .... and was launched by our media with the filing of ...... in order to somehow justify the "failure" of the MiG-35 because of the banal ... ... the "unwillingness" of some leading persons from the UAC to allocate funds for the serial production of this no less remarkable fighter!

      Here is fresh ..... and mind you .... not "hat news" and statements of "managers" from "aviation"!

      India plans to sign a $ 11 billion MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) contract for the purchase of French Rafale fighters later this month or early next month, the Indian Air Force said on September 8.

      "I see no reason why the deal should not be concluded before the end of this month or next month," said Indian Air Force Training Command commander Marshal Aviation Rajinder Singh.

      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 18 September 2012 13: 31
        +2
        Quote: vaf
        India plans to sign a $ 11 billion MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) contract for the purchase of French Rafale fighters later this month or early next month, the Indian Air Force said on September 8.

        I was surprised too !!
    3. Kaa
      Kaa 18 September 2012 14: 07
      0
      Quote: spender
      We (Russia) benefit from this "drain", the competitor is removed

      You look, again the topic of SUSHEK will return ... In the course, the Indians are bargaining, they are knocking down the price, but, after the history of Libya, now many countries will be cautious with Europe. East is a delicate matter...
      1. spender
        spender 18 September 2012 14: 11
        +2
        Quote: Kaa
        You look, they will return to the subject of SUSHeks again.

        I meant something else
        On December 7, 2011, French Defense Minister Gerard Longuet announced that the Rafale production would be curtailed (after the company fulfills the paid order for the French Air Force for 180 aircraft), if there are no foreign orders for the fighter. [8] But, victory in January 2012 in the MRCA tender to supply 126 multi-role fighters for the Indian Air Force, secured a large export order and saved the aircraft from discontinuation.

        I would be quite satisfied with the closure of production wink
        1. Kaa
          Kaa 18 September 2012 14: 18
          +1
          Quote: spender
          I would be quite satisfied with the closure of production

          In principle, yes, but it would be nice to place your orders, especially since the old propaganda campaign comes to mind "Soviet Rossiskoe means the best, "at least for the Russian defense industry.
    4. crazyrom
      crazyrom 18 September 2012 23: 28
      0
      Quote: spender
      We (Russia) benefit from this "drain", the competitor is removed

      yes damn how is this ugly competitor to us? He is probably a competitor to 23 ...
  2. klimpopov
    klimpopov 18 September 2012 11: 34
    -2
    Vooot, and I said that the purchase of European equipment is not justified. Especially airplanes, and even a debate on this topic was somewhere.
    Hindus have something to compare with. But they are really in deep thought, if ours pick up, then we "shove" ours, because a holy place is never empty ...
    But is there just enough power? Are they also going to deliver a lot a year to their own? Or again for export all in all?
    1. Retx
      Retx 18 September 2012 11: 47
      -1
      Here all the salt in the configuration and maintenance, we can fly with both Finns and MiGs. And there will be enough capacity, as an option they can expand! The main thing is that there are money and contracts smile
      1. Slayer
        Slayer 18 September 2012 12: 02
        +2
        Quote: RETX
        And there will be enough capacity, as an option they can expand! The main thing is that there are money and contracts

        Expand ??? Go through the metallurgical enterprises of the country, and you will see that all the equipment of the 70s, at least replace the equipment, and you’re talking about the expansion. They gave all metallurgy to privatization, and businessmen do not care how, if only it would work. You need to return the heavy industry to the state, then you can talk about extensions
        1. Retx
          Retx 18 September 2012 12: 15
          +1
          so expansion implies the strengthening of the industry. without contracts, no one will start moving, unfortunately. these same businessmen will not care when they smell the smell of money laughing here then miracles will begin)
          1. Sergh
            Sergh 18 September 2012 13: 26
            +1
            Quote: Slayer
            Gave all metallurgy to privatization

            Yes, take your time, recently I looked at the shipment and availability of sheet aluminum and duralumin of various brands at enterprises (retail trade warehouses). There was no such thing before, I was immediately in St. Petersburg, Moscow and Samara, they offered me to buy a sheet of D16T 0,5 * 1200 (1500) * 3000 (4000) at 2600 (3150) rubles for any payment. And further in the range. I won’t lie about the black metal, I don’t know, but you can always find out within 5-7 minutes, although I’m also sure there is no shortage, only maybe prices bite someone, this is another "New Year".
            1. Fox
              Fox 18 September 2012 16: 10
              +2
              I would be happy to support, but ... the range of papers and price lists is large, but as you check with a spectrometer, your hair stand on end! No guests are observed.
    2. Tirpitz
      Tirpitz 18 September 2012 11: 50
      +3
      If only Vikramaditya would not spoil the situation. Yes, and Mig-35 is not adopted weapons of the Russian Federation.
      1. spender
        spender 18 September 2012 11: 53
        +5
        Quote: Tirpitz
        If only Vikramaditya would not spoil the situation. .


        Yes there is nothing catastrophic there

        Problems on Vikramaditya did not affect fighter flights
        18 September 2012, 10: 59


        Flights of MiG-29K / KUB ship fighters from the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier continue exactly on schedule, despite problems with the power plant of the ship.

        «Information that the aircraft carrier allegedly lost its course does not correspond to reality. The ship is not only on the move, but also performs its mission as an aircraft carrier cruiser. In accordance with the schedule, MiG-29K / KUB fighter flights are carried out from his deck. And not only in the daytime, but also at night ”- one of the crew members of Vikramaditya said on Tuesday"," Interfax "reports.

        He noted that problems with steam boilers arose todayя. “We knew about them three months ago. But these problems are not critical for conducting sea trials of the ship itself, as well as for conducting carrier-based fighter flights. The power plant of the aircraft carrier continues to provide the ship with a speed of more than 20 knots without any problems. ”, - he said
        1. Rider
          Rider 18 September 2012 12: 18
          -10
          Quote: spender
          The power plant of the aircraft carrier continues to provide the ship with a speed of more than 20 knots without any problems. ”


          Only 7 out of 8 boilers exploded. So everything is fine! wink
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 18 September 2012 12: 27
            +2
            What are you! Horror!

            1. koosss
              koosss 18 September 2012 14: 14
              -1
              pilot rafal ..
      2. klimpopov
        klimpopov 18 September 2012 11: 54
        0
        They can look towards the Germans ... But the boat will probably be completed ..
        Again, the Indians are still moving in the direction of promising aircraft, and that's in thought, you always want to take as much as possible ...
        At the expense of capacities, specialists unsubscribed were not willing to raise them ...
  3. vorobey
    vorobey 18 September 2012 11: 34
    +4
    Rafal flies already sparks from .....
    1. Tirpitz
      Tirpitz 18 September 2012 11: 51
      0
      It seems to me that the Germans and the British are more reliable suppliers than the French.
  4. volcano
    volcano 18 September 2012 11: 37
    +3
    And what for is he generally India ???
    They have with us PAK FA on the way .... why spend money on an older fighter, and as a result, inferior in terms of performance characteristics ???
    1. Simon bolivar
      Simon bolivar 18 September 2012 11: 44
      -6
      PAK FA total will be 250-300 units worldwide.
    2. VAF
      VAF 18 September 2012 12: 27
      +5
      Quote: volkan
      They are with us PAK FA on the way ...


      On what ... "approach" ??????? wink
      1. Manager
        Manager 18 September 2012 13: 26
        -1
        Quote: vaf
        Which ... "approach" ??????


        On the way up! In 2022, God forbid, little things 3-4 will be ready =)

        Killed comment
        Quote: SimonBolivar
        SimonBolivar Today, 11:44 ↑ new -2 
        PAK FA total will be 250-300 units worldwide.


        Nude nude 2 million!
        1. urzul
          urzul 18 September 2012 14: 09
          0
          On the way up! In 2022, God forbid, little things 3-4 will be ready =)

          Well, you and the pessimist, in 2013 already promise to put the first in the Air Force
          1. VAF
            VAF 18 September 2012 19: 58
            +1
            Quote: urzul
            in 2013 they promise to put the first in the Air Force


            Andrey, good evening, sorry to answer so late .... I was ..... "busy"! bully

            Well, in the entire history of the existence of the USSR and now the Russian Federation, we have already so much .... they have promised that ... I hope you will give examples from "our-your promises"
            do not?

            For your information. Now they fly on the tests of the flight design stage, only 3 PROTOTYPES, the 4th will be by the end of the year, if that tells you anything ?!

            Therefore, the statements of some command and control personnel and ... advisers .... to say the least ....... are surprising! I understand that ...... "they feed the bindweed with hope," but not to the same extent?

            There are only 3 months left until the end of 2012, this is kind of a reminder by the way, and it will be very interesting to see how they will "pull" by the ears this time .... another statement on the delivery of 175-180 NEW aircraft in 2012 ?? ??

            Count together? Well, in principle, I, as a former military pilot, perceive such news from the lips of the Air Force Civil Code as .. a concept ...... NEW MILITARY MILITARY aircraft, so ... let's see! soldier
      2. volcano
        volcano 18 September 2012 15: 04
        +1
        Quote: vaf
        On what ... "approach" ???????


        Well, he flies already laughing

        I think 3-5 years is not a deadline, you can wait ... after all, we are talking about significant money .... and so .... hammer holes in the Air Force (if any) for such a short time ???

        After all, as I understand it, both Rafal and PAK FA are cars of the same class ??? multirole fighters ???
        So why is India working with us on a project ??? What would the French buy then ??
        1. VAF
          VAF 18 September 2012 20: 01
          +2
          Quote: volkan
          I think 3-5 years is not a deadline, you can wait.


          Here, depending on what measures to measure ... not a deadline?

          Unlike us, or rather THEM, who think for us, Hindus are progmatists and for .... "sweet promises" ... by ... the eleventh year, they are clearly not satisfied, you know, in my opinion they are strengthening their armed strength, don't you think? wassat
  5. ShturmKGB
    ShturmKGB 18 September 2012 11: 52
    0
    There was another chance to advance our planes, the main thing is to stick in time on time ...
    1. VAF
      VAF 18 September 2012 12: 56
      +5
      ShturmKGB
      the main thing is to adhere on time ...


      That's because ... just "fuss" ..... all aviation tenders and fly .... "past the snout" !!! wassat
  6. strannik595
    strannik595 18 September 2012 11: 54
    -1
    the smell of money, general excitement laughing
  7. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 18 September 2012 12: 00
    0
    for our arms exporters great news ...
  8. with
    with 18 September 2012 12: 07
    +1
    India has officially announced that it reserves the opportunity to report on its decision until March 31, 2013, when the fiscal year is completed.

    Hindu people have been cunning more than once tried to rip off forfeits from us and got shish with oil!
    And here they probably wrote a statement like this one !!!)) bully
    1. Rider
      Rider 18 September 2012 12: 20
      -7
      You tired everyone with your stupid and unfunny pictures.
      1. with
        with 18 September 2012 12: 40
        +3
        Quote: Ryder
        You tired everyone with your stupid and unfunny pictures.

        Since when are you all this?))) bully
        Or did you recognize your statement ??))) wassat
        Relax and while you study the sea nodes !!!))) bully
        Although suicide is not encouraged in our country!
      2. Manager
        Manager 18 September 2012 13: 27
        +3
        Quote: Ryder

        You tired everyone with your stupid and unfunny pictures.


        You are tired ........ You just tired of everyone. angry
        1. with
          with 18 September 2012 14: 01
          +3
          Quote: Manager
          You are tired ........ You just tired of everyone.

          Manager, Sparrow invented a new weapon for their extermination!)))) bully
          1. Sergh
            Sergh 18 September 2012 15: 03
            0
            ]
            Quote: Ryder
            weary everyone


            http://vsyako-razno.ru/26916-kotik-utomilsya
      3. Leisure
        Leisure 18 September 2012 15: 23
        0
        Go cry.
    2. AlexxxNik
      AlexxxNik 18 September 2012 13: 05
      0
      here it is interesting about the Indian contracts, where do these failures grow from
      http://voen-obozrenie.ucoz.ru/publ/voenno_promyshlennyj_kompleks/rossijskij_vpk_

      za_rubezhom / postavki_vooruzhenij_rossiej_pravda_i_vymysly / 2-1-0-73
      1. Sergh
        Sergh 18 September 2012 15: 39
        0
        Quote: AlexxxNik
        here it is interesting about the Indian contracts, where do these failures grow from

        Thanks for the link! I read this article that year, now I also neighing with pleasure!
  9. nightingale
    nightingale 18 September 2012 12: 58
    -6
    why not offer the MIG31 Indians. two hundred of them rust. India requires putting its avionics, therefore, they should carry out modernization
    1. Tjumenec72
      Tjumenec72 18 September 2012 13: 33
      0
      EEEE such a cow needs himself)
  10. red-threat
    red-threat 18 September 2012 14: 13
    -1
    > Marianne Pierre Conesa

    Marianne is a feminine name and does not combine with Pierre. Below is a link to the personal data of this Konesa: http://www.iris-france.org/cv.php?fichier=cv/cv&nom=conesa. Something the author confused.
  11. Old skeptic
    Old skeptic 18 September 2012 14: 34
    -1
    Quote: volkan
    They have with us PAK FA on the way .... why spend money on an older fighter, and as a result, inferior in terms of performance characteristics ???

    PAK FA is a fighter of another class (heavy), and Rafal's classmate Migov (light or front-line) is cheaper to operate and sharpened a little for other tasks.
  12. upasika1918
    upasika1918 18 September 2012 16: 54
    -2
    All the same as twenty, thirty, and one hundred years ago. Heels, parquet, armchairs, briefcases, languages, asses, envelopes, pockets, a spoiled phone, intrigues of the setups ... crunches, rustlers, bablosiki ........
  13. studentmati
    studentmati 18 September 2012 21: 47
    0
    Normal competition. No need to relax and keep your nose upwind!