1520. Steam locomotive as a war machine - stupidity

A small digression.

Here, in the comments to the material on the logistics of the "capture" of Ukraine, several remarks were made, to which it makes sense to answer.

Firstly, no one refuses from the cycle on the state of the Russian railways. An epidemic, which does not exist, simply prevented, as a result of which the bulk of the informant consultants ended up who were on sick leave and who were in the hospital. Agree, it's not very nice to go in with questions in such conditions. We started to bounce back little by little - we started working. So - everything will be. Scandals, intrigues, investigations - all in their own time.

Secondly. I have long been accustomed to the fact that we have many readers who come solely to show that they are at least as stupid as the authors. Dear, let’s still do without outright jokes such as the firebox of locomotives with a vobla, zhezlovka, or (especially outraged the co-authors) dragging trains around the hauls with a shunting diesel locomotive of the ChME3 type. We still have a serious site, and not somewhere else. We know how to look not only in tomorrow, right?

So, today we have a steam locomotive under consideration. The one that, in case of emergencies, we charge with firewood or fish (as our readers suggest) and take something and somewhere on it.

Actually - no, we will not get lucky.

So from the doorway, but with an explanation of the reasons.

Of course, the fact that steam locomotives are kept in Ermolino, Roslavl, Irael and other places in case of emergency is not bad. And when this unforeseen event occurs, they can be useful in some way, that's only very, very limited.

Proof? Excuse me.

1. Technical condition

The Internet is full of photos from storage bases, from which it can be seen that the equipment is stored simply outdoors, under the influence of the atmosphere. Considering that the last steam locomotives in the USSR were manufactured in the mid-50s of the last century, it can be concluded that the state of technology, which has been standing in the open for more than half a century, is not the most brilliant.

Photo: Denis Zabelin / zen.yandex.ru/d1als

Metal fatigue is not a fairy tale. Especially when it comes to the load-bearing structure. Still, a steam locomotive is not a garden cart.

Tubes, cylinders, boilers, superheaters - all this, 70 years after release, ceases to be reliable. Naturally, there is nothing to change, because even if you use some of the locomotives from storage as donors, it will still be a "trishkin caftan", since one rubbish will change for another.

I watched our steam locomotive, which drags one car of the "historical" train along the route, 30 km long. He manages to pass it, but water really pours from all the cracks.

No spare parts, no repairmen. Usually, the repair and maintenance of steam locomotives that drag retro trains are carried out by their crews. With the help, you know, of enthusiasm, a hammer, a crowbar, ingenuity and a locomotive grandmother.

Meanwhile, the pressure in the boiler of the steam locomotive is from 12 to 14 atmospheres. Not very pleasant numbers in conditions of worn or corrosive metal from time to time, is not it?

There is a positive moment: they began to train again to control the locomotive. This happens literally in two or three institutions of Russian Railways, but they teach.

So the technical condition and serviceability of steam locomotives is 2 points out of 10.

2. Infrastructure

Everything is much sadder here. In order for steam locomotives to start moving along the railways of Russia, it is necessary to create coal reserves at almost every station. As it was a hundred years ago.

That is, the work itself is more than colossal. It should be a separate track at the station, equipped with a coal storage facility and a mechanized coal tender.

Let's just say that now front loaders or excavators will solve this issue easily and naturally. But equipping a warehouse, bringing coal into it, and even arranging replenishment of stocks is not an easy task.

And you will need a lot of coal. For example, a steam locomotive of the E series took up to 18 tons.

Next we have water. With this, too, not everything is smooth. We need a lot of water. The same steam locomotive of the E series took up to 27 cubic meters of water.

Previously, special water-filled rotary columns were installed to supply steam locomotives with water. A very simple and competent design, which made it possible to fill the required amount of water into the locomotive in a short period of time.

Now there are practically no such columns left; trains are filled with water through hoses. With a steam locomotive, this number will not work, since it is not necessary to charge a tank for several hundred liters (this is in the life support systems of road trains, for example), but for several cubic meters.

For comparison, one steam locomotive of the E series is three sprinklers based on KamAZ. The average volume of a sprinkler is from 6 to 10 cubic meters, depending on the installed capacity.

How long does it take to fill a steam locomotive's tank from such tanks through conventional hydrants? And how convenient will it be? Holding a sleeve through which water flows under tremendous pressure, being on some kind of overpass above a steam locomotive blazing with heat, is so-so pleasure.

In an amicable way, of course, the water filling system must be restored, and without inventing anything new. Just a pipe with a wide diameter, through which a lot of water can be supplied.

In general, only the creation of this structure will require huge funds and time. The "shoulder" of the steam locomotive is not the same as that of more modern colleagues, therefore it will be necessary to organize the infrastructure to ensure the operation of the steam locomotives at a more or less decent station.

Plus, repair teams and a stock of spare parts in case of breakdown, at least at large stations.

In general, here in terms of the possibility of creating infrastructure for the use of steam locomotives on a national scale - 1 point out of 10.

3. Security

An important component. On modern technology, there are systems that ensure safety. CLUB, SAUT, TSKBM, ALSN, which really do a lot for the safe operation of the locomotive and its crew. They control, notify, signal and even slow down the train.

Naturally, there is none of this on the steam locomotive. The driver and the assistant driver scampered along the tracks, focusing exclusively on traffic lights and semaphores. The modern driver is simply not able to drive like this, he just got used to relying on all these systems.

Of course, it is possible to integrate all (or part) of the security systems into the steam locomotive. But this is time and money again. And the question of how much we will leave unanswered, since there are simply no specialists among us who are able to answer this question, unfortunately. Obviously, there is a lot of both the first and the second.

As a result, safety issues are 7 out of 10, since it is not clear which is simpler and more profitable: equip steam locomotives with safety systems or teach drivers how to drive at traffic lights and look at the situation.

Personally, I think it's easier to stuff a locomotive with electronics, although it looks stupid.

4. Efficiency

After evaluating the previous factors, let's look at the overall efficiency of the steam locomotive as a means of transportation.

Let's take the same steam locomotive of the E series and contrast it with the 2TE116 freight locomotive. A working machine, simple and trouble-free, like ... like a steam locomotive, still working all over Russia.

A diesel locomotive does not have the same problems as a steam locomotive. With spare parts, for sure, the machine is still being produced (albeit in Ukraine), and we have something to repair in Kolomna. That is, in terms of technical condition, despite the fact that “phantomas” are not newcomers to the roads - they are solid 7 out of 10.

As for the infrastructure, the locomotive is also doing well here. There are experts, there is where and what to refuel. Well, diesel is a more common thing in our time than a boiler with a superheater. Total - 9 out of 10.

As far as security systems are concerned, everything is clear. 10 of 10.

And we just have to compare the real efficiency of these machines.

The power of the E series locomotive is 1300 h.p.
Diesel locomotive 2TE116 has two diesel engines with a capacity of 3 hp. EACH.

Accordingly, the traction force of the steam locomotive is 18 100 - 19 500 kgf.
The traction force of the locomotive is 25 kgf.

Locomotive traction is this parameter, which determines the mass of the train, depending on the relief of the route. Its greatest value is required when starting a train from a standstill, accelerating, and also when following an ascent.

Here the diesel locomotive has an advantage. Yes, there were more powerful (I took the E series as the most massive and most common steam locomotive today) steam locomotives that were not inferior to diesel locomotives, but it makes sense to bring them if they were made from 50 to 200 pieces and, possibly, to this day, alive and not left at all?

The locomotive can carry more cargo by weight. This is important, since the same Tanks have grown quite fat over the past 80 years. If the T-34 weighed in the region of 30 tons, then the T-72 is 10-12 tons more.

Everything is clear here, a diesel locomotive that can be refueled without noise and dust (in the literal sense of the word), simply by fitting a tank with fuel anywhere, can be repaired without any problems, which, moreover, can carry more cargo over a greater distance, is more profitable than a locomotive for which there is nothing.

To some, this will seem sad, but a steam locomotive, which is rather complicated (yes, it is very difficult) in operation, is not suitable for the role of the main draft means in emergency situations. At the end I will give a link of what a steam locomotive driver should know, a guide in pictures. Very informative, by the way.

Yes, the locomotive looks like a masterpiece on the move. This year I myself appreciated that when it goes at a speed of 40-50 km / h, smoke, steam, the roar of a whistle before moving, strikingly different from the whistles of electric locomotives - yes, it looks powerful and beautiful.

But we are talking about the fact that we will have to carry a lot and quickly. In the case of military operations, you should not count on a steam locomotive. Too old, too worn out, no base. The role of the main supplier in the event of a power failure (or lack of such, such as, for example, the YUVDZh branch to Kharkov) will fall on the locomotive.

And steam locomotives can be used in areas where there is coal. The same Rostov region. Locally. To free up freight diesel locomotives.

But in reality, the age of steam locomotives ended at the moment when the infrastructure for servicing steam locomotives disappeared from the stations. And today these beautiful cars are suitable exclusively for the entertainment of all comers as part of retro trains, nothing more.

And the role of the main supplier of equipment, ammunition and everything else to the places where it burns, and even in conditions of possible problems with the contact network or its complete absence (hello, Crimea, if anything) is better to entrust the diesel locomotive.

Yes, he is not so brutal and handsome, but in a difficult environment he will not let you down. Of course, if this is not ChME3, with which we decide to drag the train with the tanks.


For those who are interested: Illustrated guide to the locomotive driver.

Comments

[Doctor]

I don’t understand what kind of delirium I am now, have I read it? request

Forecast of the work of railway transport in a special period. It’s a necessary thing, everything will be based on it.

[Grandfather]

Roman, you "went too far" ... steam locomotives should be mothballed, this is the only possible means of transportation on the railway, in the case of a "paragraph" ... water can be hauled in buckets, about firewood in the furnace: watch the movie "communist" ... and everything ... you can "go". and with a diesel engine, there may be some other problems, well, there are no such reserves.

[Civil]

Quote: Dead Day

Roman, you "went too far" ... steam locomotives should be mothballed, this is the only possible means of transportation on the railway, in the case of a "paragraph" ... water can be hauled in buckets, about firewood in the furnace: watch the movie "communist" ... and everything ... you can "go". and with a diesel engine, there may be some other problems, well, there are no such reserves.

I looked through the "illustrated guide" and are there people who remember how to do this? Moreover, the manual is clearly as a superficial reminder, and so you probably need to learn, including techniques.

in the case of a "paragraph" ... you can carry water with buckets, about firewood in the furnace: watch the movie "communist".

See item 1 - state of the art, 70 years old. These are antiques with limited resources.

[Alex koch]

Probably they stayed, in any case, when I studied in Kharkov at the railway, many students in parallel also received working specialties, so those who studied for assistant driver - they studied steam locomotives, 20 years have not yet passed)
Yes, and the organization of transportation by steam in the absence of signaling, centralization and communication was taught. And no matter how indignant the "co-authors" are - what a railway they represent, it seems, is very vague.
Regarding ChME3 - the same TE1 was quite a mainline cargo-passenger, and chmekha covers him like a bull a sheep)
Yes, and antique VL8 - quite the same age as the last series of steam locomotives, niche, old people are running around)

[ccsr]

Quote: Proxima

These are antiques with limited resources.

In good hands, such antiques can serve for more than a hundred years:

In 1907, having honestly worked on railroad transportation for an impressive 53 years, the locomotive was decommissioned. However, it was not cut into metal. At first he was in reserve, then apparently his hands simply did not reach, and even later, he turned into a rarity, which is a pity to let under the knife. Yes, perhaps it is really a miracle that over the decades that the "Fairy Queen" was in conservation, nothing was done to her that would put a big fat cross on the future of the steam locomotive. After all, they remembered the old woman, only in the 70s of the XX century, and in 1971, they exhibited it as an exhibit in the railway museum of India, where the steam locomotive calmly stood as an exhibit for 20 years. However, in the 90s, his quiet pension ended. "Koroleva" was sent for reconstruction, during which it was decided to return her ability to move independently, and already in 1996, she was able to go on the railway on her own.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/kontaktniy_rels/samyi-staryi-deistvuiuscii-parovoz-v-mire-rodom-iz-serediny-pozaproshlogo-veka-5d8bab6998fe7900b0e3bd41

[Civil]

In good hands, such antiques can serve for more than a hundred years:

Compare the climate and storage conditions, 2-3 springs in Russia on the street are stifling new technology ... what can we say about 70 years in all winds.

[ccsr]

Quote: Civil

Compare the climate and storage conditions, 2-3 springs in Russia on the street are staggering new equipment ...

So the locomotive just needs to be coated with cannon tallow and re-preserve it every 5-7 years - there is, by and large, nothing to rust.

The declared shelf life of conservation grease is 5 years, but in fact, when stored in a hermetically sealed container, even 10 years after the release date, cannon fat retains its properties. The scope of tasks that the pushsalo solves is small - the use of this composition is limited to the preservation of equipment and the protection of metal surfaces from corrosion.

[Civil]

So the locomotive just needs to be coated with cannon tallow and re-preserve it every 5-7 years - there is, by and large, nothing to rust.

Of course, there are instructions and storage rules ... but judging by the sprouted trees, they were not always followed, especially in the 90s.

[kytx]

India has six months of rainy season, and our concept of "pouring rain" is an ordinary constant weather. Not sugar either.

[Andrey Ivanov_5]

if the former peasants of the mid-19th century coped with the steam locomotive, modern people are guaranteed to cope.

[Ingvar 72]

We could do it. They were drank en masse in most cases. In the village of Mezhdurechensk, there used to be 4 units. stood in reserve. One was sawed on the spot, 3 were sold to China. I got boiler pipes, thick-walled, in perfect condition.
It's a pity, but our managers from Russian Railways decided that steam locomotives were not needed. Just as health managers cut infectious diseases hospitals.

[Proxima]

Quote: Dead Day

Roman, you "went too far" ... steam locomotives should be mothballed, this is the only possible means of transportation on the railway, in the case of a "paragraph" ... water can be hauled in buckets, about firewood in the furnace: watch the movie "communist" ... and everything ... you can "go". and with a diesel engine, there may be some other problems, well, there are no such reserves.

That's just the diesel - this is the engine of the paragraph. He eats everything. Works even on gas oil - primary oil processing. Mix the used oil with some benzene or kerasin - the diesel fuel is ready. In my presence, a man filled diesel with heating oil and the car drove off. I already do not stutter about the efficiency of a diesel engine and a worn-out steam engine ..

[Andrey Ivanov_5]

diesel fuel does not grow in the forest and there is no gas oil either.

[Andrey Ivanov_5]

How long will a diesel fuel injection pump or an injector stand without using?
2-3 years old?
what are the gaps in the course?

[Moore]

To confirm or refute the author's categorical opinion about the unsuitable state of locomotives on conservation, you need to know:
- whether inspections of Gostekhnadzor are carried out in due time for boilers, HP tanks and other objects subject to control;
-Does maintenance take place, de-preservation of individual samples according to the schedules, sea trials, reverse preservation.
Neither we nor the author have this knowledge. I suppose that the "saints of the 90s" did not have the best effect on storage - I can judge by the state of the mob reserve of the bridge detachments, where in the early 90s there was everything down to plates and blankets, and by zero there were rot and skeletons of equipment with sprouted through them birches.
The author did not convince by paragraph 2 - to create coal reserves in coal-mining regions - not God knows what binomial of Newton. Refueling with water from stationary highways will not create any special problems either.
Training - there is an institution engaged in additional training of drivers for steam locomotives.
I see the problem in the unclear technical condition of the equipment in storage. The answer to it is to give a command to the storage base for 100% de-preservation and testing - money can be found if desired. Draw conclusions based on the results.

[your1970]

Quote: Moore

To confirm or refute the author's categorical opinion about the unsuitable state of locomotives on conservation, you need to know:
- whether inspections of Gostekhnadzor are carried out in due time for boilers, HP tanks and other objects subject to control;
-Does maintenance take place, de-preservation of individual samples according to the schedules, sea trials, reverse preservation.
Neither we nor the author have this knowledge.

There are quite enough photographs in which trees grow through the mechanisms of steam locomotives - to understand that not a damn thing there is serviced and verified

[Grim Reaper]

Quote: Moore

Gostekhnadzor

Rostekhnadzor.

[bulat]

Refueling with water from stationary highways will not create any special problems either.

In the Volgograd region (branch), only two water pumping stations remained under the control of Russian Railways. Volgograd-1 equipment for passenger trains and Kotluban-filling of passenger cars of military echelons. The rest in housing and communal services. There are no filling pumps anywhere. And this situation over the network everywhere.

[prapor55]

As a locomotive driver, I would advise you to drag a tank with your hands into the ChME-3 described here.

[Undecim]

you can drag buckets of water

I suggest you try this process yourself in practice. The capacity of a steam locomotive tender, for example, FD, is 44 liters or 000 buckets.

[AUL]

Quote: Dead Day

steam locomotives be on conservation, this is the only possible means of transportation on the railway,

Keywords - must be! We have a lot of tanks on storage. How many of them can be completed and put into working order at least in two or three days? You yourself understand how these "canned foods" are protected - both tank and locomotive. And in locomotives, moreover, there is a lot of non-ferrous metal ... And in striving to steal, our people are inventive and unstoppable! So, IMHO, you shouldn't roll your lips on these canned food!

[APASUS]

Quote: Dead Day

Roman, you "went too far" ... steam locomotives should be mothballed, this is the only possible means of transportation on the railway, in the case of a "paragraph" ... water can be hauled in buckets,

Are you serious ?

The same steam locomotive of the E series took up to 27 cubic meters of water.

Buckets?

Quote: Dead Day

about firewood in the furnace: watch the movie "communist" ... and that's it ...

Well, yes, we drove to the front for a couple of months, they sawed all the firewood ...............

Quote: Dead Day

and with a diesel engine, there may be some other problems, well, there are no such reserves.

For such transport tasks, there is always a diesel engine

[210ox]

Roman is right. It is better to create a reserve of old series diesel locomotives for conservation after appropriate repairs. But about "Ukrainian phantomas" So they were produced in Voroshilovgrad-Lugansk. Now that's all ... I remember very well, back in the 80s, the stations had infrastructure, speakers. Now this is not the case. As well as steam locomotives in Roslavl.

[ValeryC]

Not just "now everything." It's just that "everything has been done for a long time" ...

[Andrey Ivanov_5]

diesel fuel equipment fails without operation, an order of magnitude faster than carburetor engines and two orders of magnitude faster than a steam engine, it is enough to compare the clearance tolerances, in diesel fuel injection nozzles it is microns, in carburetor motors several hundred square meters, in steam engines several. ten ..

[210ox]

What does the gap have to do with it? Diesel locomotives, together with their unreliable fuel equipment, are in full operation, there are spare parts, repair services. To repair and operate now a steam locomotive is a continuous hemorrhoid. Single copies, yes, restore. For the same "Ruskeala Express" or for the draft of two cars in Ostashkov.

[shturman032]

How is it that there are no steam locomotives in Roslavl? There are they there and quite a few, sometimes I stop by to admire! Although the author pointed out that the E series is the most massive and most common, I disagree. In the same Roslavl there were two or three of them that year. 99% were locomotives of the L series.There are many photos, I can attach as proof)

[210ox]

I was in early 2008 on a business trip to the Roslavl shipyard. The chief engineer said that the storage base would be liquidated. I have no data at this time. Maybe something is left. Post, if you can, fresh photos. I left the Smolensk region ten years ago.

[Serg koma]

Quote: Dead Day

this is the only possible means of transportation on the railway,

Why focus (during an emergency) only on transportation?
In addition to the main function of transporting passengers and goods, steam locomotives in locomotive depots were often used as boiler houses. If steam for the operation of a steam locomotive is diverted into the heat supply system and not converted into reciprocating motion, then the heat generated will be enough to heat several buildings.

I got used to it for a long timethat we have many readers who come solely to show that they at least not more stupid than the authors.

To the author: it is sinful to consider yourself smarter than others
1. Infrastructure

In order for steam locomotives to start moving along the railways of Russia, it is necessary to create coal reserves at almost every station. As it was a hundred years ago.

If you live only with the progress of 100 years ago, then yes, you are right. In the 21st century, diesel, liquefied gas, fuel oil or various types of solid fuels are used as fuel for a steam boiler.

(Steam locomotive СО17-1408 on equipment / set of fuel oil / mid 20th century)
The minimum capacity of a fire hydrant is 50 liters per second. Each station has more than one hydrant. Further arithmetic: 27000 liters / 50 liters / 60 sec. = 9 minutes the time of filling with water all tanks of the "E" series locomotive. And there is no need to adjust the "sprinklers" on the basis of KamAZ, and even more so on the basis of "Gazelle" (22 pieces (approximately) )

one steam locomotive of the E series is three sprinklers based on KamAZ. The average volume of a sprinkler is from 6 to 10 cubic meters, depending on the installed capacity.

[Grits]

Quote: Dead Day

Roman, you "went too far" ... steam locomotives should be mothballed, this is the only possible means of transportation on the railway, in the case of a "paragraph" ... water can be hauled in buckets, about firewood in the furnace: watch the movie "communist" ... and everything ... you can "go". and with a diesel engine, there may be some other problems, well, there are no such reserves.

I looked at the illustrated appendix attached here and realized that no one nowadays can not only drive a steam locomotive, but even prepare it for work. All the cadres who understood something about steam locomotives have basically gone to another world (like my grandfather - a fireman) or old people for a long time.

[Grancer81]

Interestingly, have you personally tried to fill with water, manually, with buckets, at least the diesel engine cooling system on a locomotive? 30, or even all -35? As it happens with us in Siberia .... And where can you get so much firewood? And not just firewood, but which can burn to create traction? It's only in the movies that everything is good and interesting ...

[fif21]

Quote: Arzt

Forecast of the work of railway transport in a special period. The deed is necessary, everything will hold on to it

Everything will be kept in the service of the rear of the Ministry of Defense. There are railway troops, there are pipeline troops ...... How can you not recall the words "Accounting and Control". RAO Russian Railways - apart from profits, is not interested in anything. Therefore, accounting and control of the mob reserve should be entrusted to the rear services. Then there will be someone to ask, and to whom to calculate how much of what is needed. And "the cemeteries of steam locomotives and diesel locomotives" will no longer be cemeteries, but V \ H -------, as well as the activated units. With maintenance and protection of property.

[zenion]

In Sverdlovsk, in general in the Urals in the last century, there was a saying - fish without fish and cancer!

[your1970]

The answer to the question "Why did the USSR shore a paravoz in case of war, but now it makes no sense"

[Blackmokona]

The USSR devilishly stored a lot of material resources, plans and blanks in case of war, spending a colossal amount of resources on this. Just a tram left over from the Second World War. Now there are no resources for this, there is no admin resource and there is no need either. Modern means of war are radically better at destroying the organization and infrastructure of the country than means during the Second World War.

[datura23]

Once they train, it means the state believes that such specialists will be useful.

[serg.shishkov2015]

Everything is accurate and to the point! Locomotives should be saved not for different emergencies, but as part of our history! This is the EPOCH! Cut into metal - a lot of rare things were cut! The partner presented a luxurious two-volume book - * Revived steam locomotives *, It says well about it! retro trains are a separate business, entertainment, tourism! Your niche! And for the war, a diesel locomotive! Become a test!

[parusnik]

I remember the children's film "Changing a Dog for a Steam Locomotive", so I probably watched the middle of the 70s in the second class, to some extent it reveals the problem described by the author in the article.

[The leader of the Redskins]

The article is good.
And not only in terms of transport. Here I want to quote Roman:
Dear, let's all the same do without frank tricks like the furnace of locomotives vobloy
Then:
[i] We still have a serious site, and not somewhere else ...

These are the words, but what would the editorial board take on board! Otherwise, the entire news column is at least half full of "Petrosyans". Whatever the news is about - negotiations between the presidents, Ukraine, Belarus or a digest via Internet messages - half of the comments are frankly stupid - vulgar attempts at humor.
And the editors don't react.
And they would have slapped remarks like a flood to "jokers" in a row, you see, "Petrosyanov" would have quieted down ...

[Crowe]

There was always a supply of rails, sleepers, and sand along the road. In the depot, two steam locomotives were always ready until the end of the seventies - either the pairs would be divorced, or they would even ride back and forth a little for everyone's joy - beauty!
Yes, the era .. I got a little bit ..
A steam locomotive flies, smoke swirls. There is snow under it, the sky above it.
On the sides - only pines in a row, One after another in the snow stand.
One now stands in the park as a monument ..

[Grandfather]

I went to the South with my parents on a steam locomotive (from Sverdlovsk) ... the end of the 60s, I don’t forget the whistle, but at the bend we saw the locomotive itself (the last carriage was), remembered it for the rest of my life, and this smell, and even flying soot ...! beauty ! nostalgia...

[The leader of the Redskins]

Since the 80s, my late father had a salary supplement for being trained to operate a steam locomotive. The practice took place with the military, somewhere near Chernigov.

[Doctor]

The role of the main supplier in the event of a power failure (or lack of such, such as, for example, the YUVDZh branch to Kharkov) will fall on the locomotive.

The branch works. Electric trains from Liski to Valuyki run from Kupyansk to Kharkov too.

But in fact, yes, a diesel locomotive.
Although.
The locomotives are on the siding. And the pump station from the river to the parking lot was checked recently.
True, people figuratively called the parking place "the cemetery of steam locomotives."

[nikvic46]

I liked the article. And I immediately understood who the author was. I wonder which railways. do we work in the Transcaucasia?

[faiver]

And now attention is the question - will the locomotive work after the EMP?

[Grandfather]

Quote: faiver

And now attention is the question - will the locomotive work after the EMP?

if only "stupidly diesels" without "electronics".

[faiver]

and there are such now? After all, now we even have computers on loaves ...

[Grandfather]

well, TEM-2 shunting diesel locomotives are still crawling ... (saw yesterday) simple as a shovel ..

[faiver]

well, yes, like the old carburetor UAZs ...

[Bad_gr]

Locomotive-powered train, railway laid through the forest, etc. ...........

[Bad_gr]

Quote: faiver

and there are such now? After all, now we even have computers on loaves ...

Steam locomotives, at the end of their careers, were the same slightly in electronics. Here, for example, is a picture from the Tekhnika Molodyozhi magazine 1953-10:

and a worm conveyor in the firebox, so that you do not swing a shovel.
By the way, Khrushchev was able to note in the locomotive theme: if not for him, they would have run much longer. They were forcibly put on a joke, replacing them with diesel locomotives, although those first diesel locomotives were no match for the steam locomotives of the latest releases (it was necessary to show the advantage of the socialist system, they say, in terms of progress, we are ahead of the rest of the planet)

[Grancer81]

If there are old types, TE3, TE10, TE116, M62, TEP 60, TEP 70, then they will. EMP is not a problem for them.

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

And what should stop him? Even radio communication will work, only a few hours after the explosion.

[faiver]

not an expert in this matter, but I read that the radios connected to the antennas will be covered with a copper basin, and the radio communication itself will be possible ...

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

My father served nearby in Chimkent. During the tests, they did not take any measures. After the explosion, the air is completely calm, even the noise disappears. After a few hours, the connection is gradually restored. That's all your scary EMP.

[Doctor]

And now attention is the question - will the locomotive work after the EMP?

Will. But the central power supply will receive a temporary kirdyk. Transformers will fly mostly.

Therefore, in the states of the railway, the overwhelming majority of roads are not electrified.
It's safer this way.

[ALARI]

After the EMP, the locomotives will stand up and will not be needed. A steam locomotive does not run without a man.

[El Barto]

And how interesting does an electro-magnetic impulse act on a person?
I'm afraid of something. Can the electricity in the house be turned off?

[UA3QHP]

EMP usually comes along with a shock wave and light radiation. The last two are quite enough, where EMP would be dangerous.

[El Barto]

Usually.
For a long time, there have been ammunition based on explosive magnetic generators and vircators. So as not to waste a nuclear bomb on it

[UA3QHP]

On the basis of ordinary explosives, a decent explosive magnetic generator will not work, the power is small. And we increase the power, it turns out a nuclear weapon.

[El Barto]

Decent and unnecessary. They are supposed to be used to suppress the target air defense radar during air strikes. Not to burn out semiconductors in the whole area

[El Barto]

In general, what is it for? EMP type will burn out generators and electric motors of diesel-electric locomotives? And locomotives are our everything?
It will not burn out outside the range of the shock wave. There won't be anything at all.
And within its radius and without EMP, they will fly upside down.
Apart from the fact that no one is going to use nuclear weapons yet

[ALARI]

As Sergey said below EMP one does not walk. And if it comes to EMP, then it will no longer be a local conflict where steam locomotives will be needed, submarines and deeper bunkers will be needed. You need to know such simple truths.

[prapor55]

If there is no USTA, then diesel locomotives of the TE-10 series can operate on two jumpers and elastic bands from women's curlers

[Soldatov V.]

Good article. In the event of war and the loss of power plants, the steam locomotive was a lifesaver. By the way, coal warehouses have survived in some cities near the railways called Gortop.
Now the role of emergency tax has passed to diesel locomotives. Why not recreate a steam locomotive based on modern knowledge and materials. And to make it multi-fuel, with automatic coal supply, as in modern coal-fired power plants, where coal is ground to nanoparticles and burned with high efficiency. You can make a prototype at least in order not to lose experience in building steam locomotives. You never know what.
At the water institute where I studied every year, one student was given an assignment for a diploma for a project of a paddle steamer, so as not to forget how to do it.

[saygon66]

- I saw at the station a steam locomotive with a tank for fuel oil in the tender ... An upgrade, one might say ...

[Grancer81]

As for the nanoscale locomotive, this is to Mr. Chubais ratsukha ... Although this CIA agent has already left Rusnano.

[UVB]

A diesel locomotive does not have the same problems as a steam locomotive. With spare parts, for sure, the machine is still being produced (albeit in Ukraine)

The largest Lugansk diesel locomotive plant. If Roman is not in the know, Lugansk is not Ukraine and will never be in it!

[The leader of the Redskins]

Sure? But our Supreme Commander-in-Chief thinks differently and has stated this more than once.
Well, if you believe the Internet, then the plant you specified is no longer capable of producing products.

[UVB]

Well, if you believe the Internet, then the plant you specified is no longer capable of producing products

It will not be difficult to restore production, the production base has been preserved, believe me, I know about this firsthand. In 2014, the plant worked to the last, even under shelling, assembling diesel locomotives for the Russian Federation until the city was completely de-energized. By the way, more than 70% of the shares of Luganskteplovoz belong to Transmashholding. You only need a strong-willed decision and orders.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Just?
Your text can be applied to ANY ditched production. As a mechanical engineer, I am telling you this. But the economic side of your words will absolutely not be in their favor. As people say - it's easier to "build from scratch".
Theoretically, it was possible to restore both ZiL, and AZLK, and others, but ... you know what happened to them. So why do you think that Luhanskteplovoz will have a different fate?

[UVB]

Unlike AZLK and others, production at LT has not been ruined, but suspended. Moreover, something is still working, in particular forging and pressing. And I know because many of my acquaintances are not the last people at the plant, but from the top management. By the way, over the years of independence, production was almost ditched, but thanks to Transmashholding, the plant began to revive, albeit on the second try.

[froger]

If earlier I thought that our preparations for the war, which Ukraine and the whole world (well, in general, everyone except us) are so afraid of, are fabrications of the State Department, now, in particular, after this ominous article, I begin to think that the government Russia is beginning to ... how to say it, to "go nuts" on the sly (though I would like to use a different word). It is even worse here than in the USSR. The communist leaders were Marxists and believed that war is a continuation of politics, and politics is a concentrated continuation of the economy. And what are the current insurmountable political and economic contradictions between us and the rest of the civilized world? What goals will the war set for the country? To protect our wealth from the imperialists? Yes, most of these riches have already been peacefully and quietly given to the same imperialists. And with what slogans? - For the Motherland, for Putin?
The country and the people are given into full possession, perhaps not quite adequate people.
You need to slow them down at least slightly, but how?

[Grancer81]

Until October-November 1917, there were no communists in power, but there were wars ...

[dmitriygorshkov]

Thanks! Very informative.

[Naz]

As in childhood in the Soviet Union, at night we passed some kind of station, there the locomotives stood idle in several rows and several kilometers. Surprise I had no chapel.

[volodimer]

They rode the train from Tallinn to Leningrad, I also watched at one of the stations. The locomotives stood in several (3-4) rows and for a couple of kilometers, and there were also old freight and passenger cars. Very impressed.

[svp67]

In short, everything was gone ...

In order for steam locomotives to start moving along the railways of Russia, it is necessary to create coal reserves at almost every station.

Really bad ... coal ran out in Russia, as well as bulk cargo loaders, even on a tractor chassis, let alone stationary ...

But on difficult days, when the locomotives were very badly loaded with wood, the thrust dropped, but still he pulled something, what the front needed.
I remember an episode when crosses from graves were used for movement ...
And the last thing in this regard. I saw their work, and I saw the real work in the 80s and even then noticed that in the tender he had a huge tank for liquid fuel, in this case fuel oil, alteration for such fuel greatly simplifies the design of the locomotive and its maintenance ...

There are problems with water ... Well, yes, yes ... and the author did not think about how to equip fire trains with water? Buckets? Or at each station there is a branched water supply system under pressure, for fire-fighting needs ... so that fires can be extinguished at the stations. The author apparently did not think about it somehow.
Well, and most importantly, the steam locomotive is the LAST CONDITION, before switching to horse traction. No one proposes to switch to them on the first day of hostilities, thank God we have an extensive fleet of diesel locomotives, but the fact that they must be kept in readiness, this is the author of the rights

[mark1]

Without wanting to appear

at least not more stupid than the authors

Is there a large fleet of diesel locomotives in the European part? Almost all distances are electrified and, accordingly, will fail at the right time. I'm not that kind of locomotive. I'm asking for the diesel reserve.
The good thing about locomotives is that they can be used as emergency sources, first of all, for heat supply, and it is probably no longer worth driving them.

[EvilLion]

The locomotive from the storage base is now useless simply because now there are no people who know how to work with locomotives, no infrastructure for them, even a banal supply of coal is not stored at the stations. True, why the author devotes an article to this, I do not really understand, this is called a fight with a scarecrow. And an unnecessary stuffed animal for anyone.

[Aviator_]

Great illustrated guide from 1953! Unbeknownst to me, couplers have been around since the early 1950s.

[A. Privalov]

I appeal to specialists and experts. I have a gap in education.
If I still somehow imagine the mechanical part of heating units, then in hot water systems - a complete layman.
Questions: how did you deal with scale in boilers and different pipes? After all, water can be of different hardness. I had to visit places where even a simple kettle turned into god knows what in a month.
It's the same on ships. Did you carry a supply of fresh water there? Desalinated along the way? How was the scale cleaned there? The dimensions of the boilers and the number of pipes in powerful steam engines are fantastic. Moreover, even 100 years ago, there were many such units.
Any relevant information would be greatly appreciated.

[Liam]

Quote: A. Privalov

how did you deal with scale in boilers and different pipes?

https://lokomo.ru/podvizhnoy-sostav/obrabotka-vody-dlya-parovozov.html

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Liam

https://lokomo.ru/podvizhnoy-sostav/obrabotka-vody-dlya-parovozov.html

Thanks! Very informative.

[Liam]

Cleaning procedure.

For some reason, the site does not skip the direct link

[A. Privalov]

Class! Apparently, this was another piece of work.

[Grim Reaper]

Dealing with limescale is pretty easy. Soda. At least three times increases the resource "without flushing" True, according to the experience of steam generators with a capacity of 180-240 kW. But I think it's scalable.

[Alexander X]

Any relevant information would be greatly appreciated. hi
Read about closed-cycle steam locomotives ... In steam engines with DC, the waste steam is not emitted into the atmosphere, but condensed in a special heat exchanger into water, which is reused

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Alexander X

Any relevant information would be greatly appreciated. hi
Read about closed-cycle steam locomotives ... In steam engines with DC, the waste steam is not emitted into the atmosphere, but condensed in a special heat exchanger into water, which is reused

Thank you. I will look for information.

[Doctor]

Questions: how did you deal with scale in boilers and different pipes?

As in the teapot, only more.

As it was in my childhood.
There is a diesel pump station on the river bank. It takes water, coarse filters, through buried pipes to the parking lot of steam locomotives. There is purification from salts. Calcium and magnesium mostly. Water in the tank, lime and soda there. After settling down - into a steam locomotive.

Another reagent was added to the boiler itself, like soda too.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Arzt

As in the teapot.

In teapots, acid is used for cleaning. And here, the water was desalted and softened.

[Doctor]

In teapots, acid is used for cleaning. And here, the water was desalted and softened.

Yes. Cleaning is a separate procedure.
Intra-boiler additives went in the process of work. I don't remember the exact composition, I was a small passenger , but you can't ask your uncle anymore.

[El Barto]

And now, by the way, they are struggling with this case. Heating and hot water supply. Household boilers and even ordinary water heaters still go wild if you don't follow them

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

The locomotive was periodically driven to the depot for washing. The boilers were washed with a solution based on soda. Otherwise, you understand, in no way.

[Grim Reaper]

In the late 90s. Towards Tagil, over 2 hours by train. And then at an angle of 90 degrees. Two hours on a paraboot. On the very real paravoz. Three carriages. I don't know how it is now ...

[Zaurbek]

Some time ago, they advertised diesel locomotives with turbines ..... something stalled. and with methane as fuel.

[mz]

it can be concluded that the state of technology, which has been standing in the open air for more than half a century, is not the most brilliant.
Metal fatigue is not a fairy tale. Especially when it comes to the load-bearing structure. Still, a steam locomotive is not a garden cart.

Fatigue of materials "builds up" when exposed to alternating voltages, not from standing in the open air.

[Per se.]

In the case of military operations, you should not count on a steam locomotive. Too old, too worn out, no base.

That's right, a diesel locomotive will be more modern. Nevertheless, you need to immediately decide what it is about, for which such a case the steam locomotives were saved, and what kind of war could there be.
For the late 40s, early 50s, steam locomotives were relevant in themselves, they were still used. Further, they began to withdraw for conservation. How they kept it is another question, even without the topic of "aging of the metal".

Now to the topic. For the "capture of Kiev" we will not need steam locomotives, as well as for many other possible conflicts. Steam locomotives may be required after the "Doomsday", as well as "potbelly stoves", windmills, and much more, even from the half-forgotten technologies of the Middle Ages. Britain has a steam engine that can still work properly. Who knows, after a big war, a lot of things might come in handy, including steam locomotives. Maybe they even have to be made anew, like sailboats.

It is good to talk about new technologies now, but if you turn off the electricity in homes, humanity finds itself without the Internet, refrigerators and hot water, and even feces from the toilet is a problem for some to pump out without a compressor. Therefore, not only locomotives should be kept "on the side track", but also everything that could work without electricity in a hard time, ensuring the survival and rebirth of mankind.

[Kerensky]

Therefore, not only locomotives should be kept "on the side track", but also everything that could work without electricity in a hard time, ensuring the survival and rebirth of mankind.

Knowledge, my friends! Knowledge, skills and abilities ... And not on a flash drive in your phone.
My son turned 16 the day before yesterday. What is he doing? Charges the phone, headphones, this electronic smoking room, and dumps off with friends to .... buy other headphones !!! No, we lost our children - these are now "telephone-taps" with clogged earplugs.
And not my fault. They now have one answer to all sentences: "Do I need it ?!"

[Undecim]

The idea of ​​the article is undoubtedly correct - the system of maintenance, repair and operation of steam locomotives is currently absent as such. Starting with training and ending with the production of spare parts. And if suddenly someone came up with the idea to recreate it, then this process must be started from scratch. This does not mean the functioning of retro routes for tourists, but the organization of the operation of steam locomotives for full-fledged cargo transportation. And naturally, no one will create and maintain such a system "in reserve". Therefore, the issue can be discussed purely theoretically.
In this regard, some points can be argued.

In order for steam locomotives to start moving along the railways of Russia, it is necessary to create coal reserves at almost every station. As it was a hundred years ago.

There is no need for this at this time. Everything is solved much easier.

[Andrey VOV]

Over short distances, and this is equal. Logistics of the ChMEZ type shunting platforms can safely transfer 10-15 platforms with equipment and at a decent speed, so their use does not need to be dropped either.

[Flurry]

The author has very little idea of ​​the subject he is writing about. Practical acquaintance is much more useful and informative. I will dispel a few myths. First, the locomotive is repaired in any hangar where there is a welding and a lathe. Requirements for the accuracy of the manufacture of spare parts, for equipment - and not even close to being compared with diesel locomotives. Those who have come across the repair of fuel injection pumps or diesel injectors will understand. The second is the efficiency of the locomotive. Those cars that were produced in the 50s cannot be compared with modern diesel locomotives. If a steam locomotive is designed and manufactured at the same technical level, its efficiency will reach 25-28%, which is comparable to that of a diesel locomotive. The third is his craving. Specific traction (t per ton of adhesion weight) is superior to diesel, for many reasons. The fourth is the heating of boilers. Why does the author think that if a diesel engine can work on a stove, a steam locomotive cannot? During the war, they were drowned with everything that burns, and with great difficulty. Even near Moscow peat. A diesel locomotive cannot do that. Fifth, the qualifications of personnel. I assure you that it is much easier to master a steam locomotive than a diesel locomotive. Knowledge of electrical engineering is not needed (excitation of electric machines, assembly of traction circuits, etc. Sixth - reliability. Even if one of the steam engines breaks down or the boiler partially loses its tightness, the steam locomotive will continue to move. the author is right, these are impressions.

[Undecim]

The author has very little idea of ​​the subject he is writing about.

You represent the subject about which you are writing a comment, no more than the author.

[Flurry]

Let's argue about the taste of oysters with those who ate them. Unfortunately, there are enough sofa theorists here.

[Undecim]

Well, if you are not a sofa theorist, please describe how you put a piston on a rolling pin in a hangar using a lathe and a welding machine.

[Flurry]

It was about ongoing repairs, not a complete bulkhead of the steam engine. For comparison, a complete overhaul of the diesels is carried out at the factory. The car is being sorted out in the workshop of the depot. It is better to watch the corresponding video, it is easy to google.

[Undecim]

I do not need to "google", I did this operation in practice. You wrote that a steam locomotive can be repaired in any hangar, where there is a welding machine and a lathe. And then suddenly you already, it turns out, and the depot needed. A little more, and it turns out that besides the lathe and the welding machine, you need a lot of other equipment.
By the way, before you talk about oysters, it would be nice to ask in front of whom.

[Flurry]

In your post it was about my understanding of the issue, not better than that of the author. I set out my opinion in detail on his article. You accused me without arguments, without bothering to clarify at the beginning who and what oysters ate, thereby being the first to show "show-off". If they really had something to do with locomotive traction, then I'm waiting for well-reasoned objections, and not the continuation of the "show-off".
In essence, it was about the fact that the repair base for steam locomotives is an order of magnitude simpler than for diesel locomotives, respectively, the repair technology, spare parts supply cycles, personnel qualification requirements are simpler. I probably can't wait for counter-arguments.

[Undecim]

In essence, it was about the fact that the repair base for steam locomotives is an order of magnitude simpler than for diesel locomotives, respectively, the repair technology, spare parts supply cycles, personnel qualification requirements are simpler. I probably can't wait for counter-arguments.

Everything comes in due time for those who know how to wait.

I set out my opinion in detail on his article. You accused me without arguments, without bothering to clarify at first who and what oysters ate

I have not accused you of anything. This is a discussion about the repair of steam locomotives, not a court session. The fact is that on the basis of your opinion, we can conclude that you, at best, saw oysters, but did not eat. Or they ate, but did not understand the taste.
As for the counterarguments, here you have to write an article, and more than one. About preventive inspection, flushing, lifting and factory repair of a steam locomotive. And then it will be clear that the statement "Rebase of steam locomotives is an order of magnitude simpler than diesel locomotives, respectively, simpler repair technologies, spare parts supply cycles, personnel qualification requirements" somewhat rash and "not so simple."

[Flurry]

I have not had the opportunity to do any repairs, only operation and a little maintenance. So what we ate different oysters, apparently, because I liked the taste of mine;). However, I saw the process of repairing different types of locomotives live, as well as its result, so I can compare.

About preventive inspection, flushing, lifting and factory repair

yes, plus different TR1,2,3, KR, SR, etc. diesel locomotives do not pass ?? And there you won't get off with articles, you can write books.
I'm not talking about that at all. Thought that people who knew oyster tastewill want to debate about 25% efficiency, thrust, etc., comparing operating costs. I am aware that in addition to the lathe and welding, much more is needed, but it cannot be compared with diesel requests.

[Undecim]

That is, you wanted to consider the issue of creating a diesel locomotive on a modern technical basis?

[Flurry]

A locomotive, obviously. Everything has already been squeezed out of the locomotive. But steam locomotives have huge reserves, and if they are used correctly, diesel locomotives will be beaten. This is not to say that they did not try to do this before, they tried some modifications. But they did not take root, since there was no particular need for economy and ecology.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Rafale

This is not to say that they did not try to do this before, they tried some modifications. But they didn't take root,

ACE 3000

[Flurry]

https://x-flight.livejournal.com/3180.html
Here is an interesting option, especially since there is a comparison. And the efficiency is 18%. But both the Kharkiv and the American concepts have flaws. If you fix them, you can get 25-28%.

[Motorist]

Quote: Rafale

you can get 25-28%

I'm not very good at locomotives, but to increase the efficiency, the [steam] parameters at the entrance to the car should be raised. Question: why is this necessary if there is already a diesel engine with high parameters?

[Flurry]

In fact, not only and not so much steam parameters. There are a dozen more different events, each of which adds 1-2%. Why do you need:
1) The steam engine is overload insensitive
2) Heating the boiler with coal (much cheaper)
3) Fuel combustion is optimal, without transient modes
4) Power does not drop with height
much more

[Motorist]

Hello!

We are talking about efficiency, not advantages and disadvantages. I don't even know where to start ... I took from the shelf (literally) a book on SDAF and a manual on calculations. I have a description of the 16DPN23 / 2x30 engine, which is some kind of analogue of the D100 diesel engine. The parameters of the beginning of combustion [very roughly!] Were estimated as 100 bar and 2000 K. Please note that this is far from the best engine.

I have no textbook on steam engines, alas. Let's believe Vika:

however, a motor with a capacitor and an expansion of the flow path can improve efficiency by up to 25% or even more

See the difference between an old diesel engine and a hypothetical steam engine? We haven't taken this into account yet. So, a boiler (some main boilers, but this is not about steam locomotives) can give such a high steam pressure, but no superheater will provide 2000K - this is a dead end for steam engines ...

Yours!

[Flurry]

See the difference between an old diesel engine and a hypothetical steam engine? We haven't taken this into account yet. So, a boiler (some main boilers, but this is not about steam locomotives) can give such a high steam pressure, but no superheater will provide 2000K - this is a dead end for steam engines ...

Everything is correct, but there are nuances ... What you are talking about is the efficiency of a diesel engine (there are several of them, by the way) as such. The moment from the diesel engine, reaching the wheels, dries up for obvious reasons, and as a result, 28-31% of the efficiency of the locomotive remains. And the efficiency of the steam engine remains the same.
Now about temperatures and TD cycles. The exhaust of a diesel engine is somewhat hotter than that of a steam engine, and the boiler efficiency, up to 95%, is important. Here is an interesting plate, where a steam engine can give out 30%, but it is not suitable for a locomotive.

However, it gives an understanding of where to go.

[Motorist]

Quote: Rafale

What you are talking about is the efficiency of a diesel engine (there are several of them, by the way) as such.

Rafale, I'm talking about effective The efficiency is not the best engine. In the given table - indicator Efficiency of an experimental high-pressure steam engine. See steam parameters in the same table. If you yourself do not see the gap between these heat engines, then I certainly cannot show it ...

[Flurry]

You, as a minder, should understand that the power (torque) from the diesel engine to the wheels is a very long way, and even after removing the costs of driving the attachments, the diesel engine still has a refrigerator fan, a fuel pump, a compressor, cooling fans for electrical equipment, traction motors, etc. etc. The generator has its losses, they want rectifiers, inverters. The same TED reducer takes its share. What's the point in the fantastic efficiency of a diesel engine for 40%, if in the end the overall efficiency of the diesel locomotive is 30% (and the operational efficiency is even less). Do you understand the difference between the efficiency of an individual unit and a machine as a whole ??

[Motorist]

Quote: Rafale

You, as a minder, must understand

Well, I'm only second class minder ...

Quote: Rafale

a locomotive diesel engine has a refrigerator fan, a fuel pump, a compressor, cooling fans for electrical equipment, traction motors, etc. The generator has its losses, they want rectifiers, inverters.

Not all diesel locomotives run on electric motors (probably). Since you came in with your trump cards, then let's remember about the boiler: does the combustion unit work there for thanks? Water make-up too? I doubt that the efficiency of a steam locomotive boiler exceeds 0,85 (in reality - I think 0,7), and this is a very serious factor!

I will cover your trump card: modern marine diesel engines (working!) Show 165 g / kWh at the stand, which means an effective efficiency of 0,52. And this is without taking into account deep recycling.

To summarize: the laws of thermodynamics have not yet been circumvented, so we now have diesel locomotives to replace steam locomotives.

[Flurry]

Well, once with the trump cards .... There was such an old, old book of the 70s about marine diesel engines (the size of a house), it says in general 160 g / kW * h. But there was a man in a cylinder and you couldn't put him on a locomotive.
The efficiency of modern industrial boilers with the correct automation reaches 95% (from practice), specifically, a locomotive fire-tube boiler is much lower. But it was about a NEW water-tube automated boiler. And I do not propose to bypass the laws of thermodynamics, but to use it wisely to increase efficiency. If we draw an analogy with diesel engines, then this is how to put an additional waste-heat boiler on the exhaust behind the HU, increase the unit volume of the cylinder, raise the pressure in the rail, heat up the fuel before injection, convert the energy from the waste-heat boiler (for example, with a freon machine) and use it to drive auxiliary equipment. Optimize the length of the intake path, etc.

[Motorist]

Understand - I am not against the steam engine, on the contrary. A steam engine (even in conjunction with a boiler), all other things being equal, will cover the internal combustion engine like a bull a sheep, because works on the direct Karnot cycle.

But the boiler is precisely the weak link: it cannot provide such steam parameters (I don't even know what water vapor is at 2000K ...). There are no materials that will withstand these pressure and temperature for a long time - everything will just flow. They will invent such materials (for general consumption) - I will be happy to retrain as machinists!

PS:

Quote: Rafale

There was such an old, old book of the 70s about marine diesel engines (the size of a house), it says in general 160 g / kW * h.

Probably hp. at one o'clock.

[Flurry]

Probably hp. at one o'clock. hi

No, g / kWh. I was still wondering then why the diesels of the 70s are 160 for ships, and the modern diesel ones are 220-190. And the whole point is in the low speed and the huge volume of the cylinder, because of this, the heat loss to the cylinder wall is much lower.

[Motorist]

Quote: Rafale

No, g / kWh

I took out the manual again (in fact, I did not remove it) - all old diesel engines have an effective consumption of about 200 g / kW * h. Maybe in your book there is an indicator, although most likely - for hp.

[Flurry]

https://kovsh.com/library/news/engines_world_news/samyi_moshchnyi_dvigatel
There, the characteristic of a similar modern diesel engine of large size is just in g / hp * h and is 118-120 g. Since then, almost nothing has changed in large diesel engines - the same crossheads, bronze in bearings, etc.

[Motorist]

This is the Sulzer 14RTA96C, but there is also more - MAN B&W 14K98ME-C.

The difference between the engines of the 70s and the end of the 90s is as follows: everyone switched to direct-flow valve purging, which made it possible to increase the stroke / diameter ratio and actually reduce the flow rate; more efficient turbochargers.

If we compare the engines of the late 90s and the current ones: they are deprived of camshafts, fuel and gas distribution through electronically controlled hydraulics, bypassing part of the gas past a turbocharger at high load - all for the sake of emission standards. Consumption did not drop much, but ecologists are happy.

You are wrong about the bronze - babbitt, only the so-called. thick-walled bearings are replaced by thin-walled bearings (not everywhere).

[Flurry]

Well, in pursuit of that table. After all, I specifically wrote that it is impossible to install such a machine directly, but it becomes clear where to go. And this means a dozen different measures, including raising the steam pressure to 45-60 atm with superheating up to 500 C, and several stages of steam expansion, and separate electronic steam distribution, and steam condensation expanders, and economizers, heating the feed water, adjusting the stoichiometry during combustion, the use of crumpled steam to drive auxiliary machines, etc. I did not just name the efficiency figures from the bulldozer, but did the calculations.

[ioan-e]

Roman, we forgot about one more important factor - the central brake line! On a steam locomotive traction, the train crew of the freight train consisted of several conductors and the chief conductor, who sat on special cars with platforms and, according to the signals of the locomotive, manually controlled the brakes. Alas, this is no longer the case in modern rolling stock. And if the steam locomotive will still hold several cars with its brakes, then already two dozen cars, and even on a complex profile, the steam locomotive is clearly beyond its power. My grandmother's sister worked as a chief conductor until the mid-70s on the South-Eastern Railway on the Penza - Rtischevo and Rtischevo - Tambov sections.

[Flurry]

All modern reserve steam locomotives support a centralized line, similar to diesel and electric locomotives.

[ioan-e]

Maybe! But all the same, the local speed of the steam locomotive is slightly less than the diesel locomotive. We had two points for unloading slag and equipment on the Rtischevo - Penza section (about 150 km), and these are not small stops. The round trip of one train crew took more than a day and a half, while now it is dirty with less than 12 hours of traffic.

[Undecim]

On locomotive traction, the train crew of the freight train consisted of several conductors and the chief conductor, who sat on special cars with platforms and, according to the signals of the locomotive, manually controlled the brakes
Westinghouse brake - 1872

[Flurry]

In the commentary on the photo there is a very ancient carriage. In the author's article there is a photo of locomotives of the E series, there you can see an air compressor from the side, supplying the common line with air. 1- train brake valve, 2- locomotive.

[Sancho_SP]

the author, or maybe first we will answer the questions:

1. Is there a plan to mobilize these locomotives from some witchcraft? Railway troops, Russian Railways, Ministry of Emergency Situations?
2. In what cases is the mobilization of steam locomotives envisaged?
3. In what period should this mobilization take place from the moment of announcement?
4. Where are these locomotives supposed to be used?

I believe that either there is actually no such plan, or it assumes a preparation period of at least a year.

[Flurry]

Plans existed, that's for sure (as it is now, I don't know). There is a current order of the minister on the presence of trained teams and at least two locomotives on each road.

[Sancho_SP]

HM. Are these the same locomotives that drive tourist trains, or some other?

[NDR-791]

Quote: Sancho_SP

Are these the same locomotives that drive tourist trains, or some other?

We don't have tourists for a ride, and at least one steam locomotive is in the locomotive depot in the workshop area. And he is on the move, periodically kicked out (as I understand it, to turn the mechanisms). And it is most likely connected to the networks in the parking lot, and even some kind of liquid fuel, because it does not smoke much.

[Sancho_SP]

Extremely curious!

Is this the only steam locomotive? Well, that is, in some kind of emergency, he will be alone? And then what's the point of him? Obviously, it is cheaper to put a barrel of diesel fuel in a warehouse for the same money that is spent on locomotives.

Is the steam locomotive team engaged in one, or are part of the full-time crews preparing for the steam locomotive in parallel?

[NDR-791]

No, not alone. I saw two with different numbers, but both were brand new. And in the box where they stand, even the wires do not fit. The box is still tsarist, but renovated and decorated in a modern way, and judging by its size, four such locomotives will fit into it freely. I think the locomotives are of some latest version or modernized and are probably intended for shunting work at the station and within the outskirts of the city. This is in the "if that" case.

[Sancho_SP]

Here it is ... and if there are even 4 of them, what is the share of the total number of locomotives in the depot?

[NDR-791]

Quote: Sancho_SP

what is the share of the total number of locomotives in the depot?

And who knows them. I only have a consumer relation to the railway. It's just that this depot is the closest to the highway and to the usual road and you can see it well.

[Sancho_SP]

I thought you were an employee.

There are a lot of retro steam locomotives for tourists. Precisely there are in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Bologoye, Karelia and Irkutsk. Maybe somewhere else.

[tralflot1832]

For a couple of months to fight, we have such a structure called Rossresev. There, besides food, there is a lot of things.

[CHEREDA73]

A useful article in the sense that we all remembered what a steam locomotive is, the principle of its operation, what it needs for "locomotive happiness"
Moreover, we will appreciate modern means of transportation.

[Max PV]

I am certainly not a railroad worker, but I am not familiar with the device for loading / unloading bulk cargo and filling liquid cargo on railway transport by hearsay. And as for the infrastructure, I can say with confidence that in 90% of cases, it is possible to prepare a station for working with steam locomotives using local resources and a hard kick to the station chief, setting deadlines and personal responsibility, without listening to the circumstances.
For example, the issue of water filling is solved by using fire hydrants that allow pumping 60-120 tons per hour, and if they are not there, by installing a 15 kW pump (the same 60-80 tons per hour), which are in almost any station in the bins or at the station boiler room , up to the fact that with suction from the reservoir and filling up to the check valve with buckets, and connection with sleeves. The installation time by a team of a welder, a carver, four locksmiths and two electricians is a day with smoke breaks. The same applies to water loading racks. While the installation is underway, we fill it with a fire hose, and at this time the same team, but without electricians, for the same day from the available / dismantled pipes 159 mm and higher, the valves and the adapter for the fire hose, they weld the U-shaped structure 3,5x4,5 m with "nipple" in the middle, placing it on blocks and stretch marks.
Coal loading is also easily solved by an inclined auger, which rusts at any station in the bushes, and requires only replacement of bearings and the motor. If the auger has already been handed over for metal, then it can be found in elevators, asphalt and cement plants, quarries, etc. With such an auger, using a dump truck and two workers with shovels, in my production, a month on a hopper for two hours (30 t / h) was loaded continuously. And, yes, before the production of permanent warehouses, the issue of coal storage can be closed by placing these same hoppers on a parallel branch. And it is relatively convenient to load with the same inclined auger, at the lower end of which the funnel of the receiving chute is welded.

[BAI]

1.

Now there are practically no such columns left; trains are filled with water through hoses. With a steam locomotive, this number will not work, since it is not necessary to charge a tank for several hundred liters (this is in the life support systems of road trains, for example), but for several cubic meters.

Outwardly, they were removed. But the water supply network (although it is not known in what condition) remained. At our station, the column was removed. But the base cabinet is 50 cm high and sticks out as before. And the water tower remained. And they put solid rails on the turntable and covered it with gravel. But no one dismantled the mechanism, in order to start it it is necessary to remove the rubble and cut the rails. Not great work.
2.

This is important, since the same tanks have grown considerably fatter over the past 80 years. If the T-34 weighed in the region of 30 tons, then the T-72 is 10-12 tons more.

And the KV-1 tank with a weight of 47,5 tons did not know about this.

3. But diesel locomotives are of course preferable. Only one "but" - will the oil depots and oil refineries function? Diesel fuel does not come out of the ground. And firewood grows, under any conditions.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

The most important factor is indeed overlooked, liquid fuel will become a big shortage during the war. All liquid fuel will go to the needs of military vehicles and supply vehicles of the army, for the railways only varieties of solid fuel will remain.

[Sancho_SP]

Strictly speaking, the reserves of fuels and lubricants in case of war are quite large. It is somehow more expedient not to store steam locomotives, but to store diesel fuel tanks. Cheaper, simpler and more versatile.

And firewood is also a dubious pleasure. It is rather laborious to procure them if you need a lot of them and in one place. And it is quite difficult to feed them into the locomotive furnace. Oil is supplied automatically, coal either automatically or with a shovel, and firewood only by hand, one by one - you may not have time to throw it.

[saygon66]

Diesel fuel has a much lower shelf life than steam locomotives!

[Sancho_SP]

So in fact all stocks are circulating.

[beeper]

Cool Theme and a manual for a steam locomotive driver is also interesting (very useful for detailing, I am just thinking of making a couple of three desktop models of steam locomotives according to the drawings of the "Modelist-Constructor")), and in the comments to the Article I also found a lot of interesting things for myself!
I thank all the efficient Commentators and the respected Author of the Article, for the "raised topic"!
* Although I do not share the author's pessimyaty about steam locomotives and demonization of "metal fatigue" (The author is clearly not a machine builder ?!).
Because was an eyewitness to the successful functioning and he himself participated in the operation of "highly stressed (according to the efforts being developed)" equipment (not only reparation and Lend-Lease equipment, produced in the 1930s and early 40s, and even pre-revolutionary construction, like friction hammers produced in the 1880s!) and captured transport equipment much older than half a century!
Previously, machine builders knew how to make durable and reliable things (with a multiple margin of safety!), With carefully thought out lubrication systems and manufacturing technology of parts (when disassembling at the end of the 1980s decommissioned German reparation milling machines that were continuously operated by the Germans, and then by us "in the tail and into the mane ", in two or three shifts, practically seven days a week, was, together with the repairmen, amazed at the excellent condition of all, without any replacement over the years with any repair," native "gear wheels and ball-roller bearings - no traces of "metal fatigue" even on the teeth of the gears, the bearings remained without backlash, everything was like new, it was even a pity for all this "shikardos" to be melted down, as they demanded from us ... the lubrication system, centralized and with manual rotors - lubricators, was very well thought out, but they were also operated, these machines were serviced in our workshop in a timely manner, too, it was strictly controlled!) designed for decades!

[ja-ja-vw]

I read that Yakunin removed steam locomotives from the balance sheet of Russian Railways and from storage. In 2015 +/-.
I think that nothing is alive anymore.
Shl. And we have that a war with Ukraine is coming?

[demiurg]

Anyone who thinks that a steam locomotive is easy and simple. I recommend taking communion for an hour just to start a steam locomotive.
But this is just the launch of a working steam locomotive.

[Flurry]

It's a pity that no one has filmed the thriller "starting a diesel engine at minus 30 and dead batteries in the section".

[Basarev]

Isn't it easier to just establish a contact network everywhere and start up electric locomotives?

[belly]

In the Minsk region, the last dispenser for refueling a steam locomotive (station "Kolodischi") was cut down in 2015. Although at the "Minsk-Tsentralny" two are still standing.

[Barge_watchman]

And the article is interesting, and the comments, too.
Returning to the origins of the topic. Two questions for the author.
1. On the territory where the use of steam locomotives is planned, how early will the infrastructure be created (coal warehouses, water pumps, mechanical semaphores, tepe?
2. How does the author plan to secure the train crews along the track? It's not just about a shooter with optics.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Barge_watchman

1. On the territory where the use of steam locomotives is planned ...........

There, at the end of the article, the author summed up:

..... And the role of the main supplier of equipment, ammunition and everything else to the places where it burns, and even in conditions of possible problems with the contact network or its complete absence (hello, Crimea, if anything) it is better to entrust the locomotive.

[Barge_watchman]

Actually, I asked about something completely different.
well, let it be.

[saygon66]

The locomotive is not safer in this regard ... The hulls can be armored up to a certain limit, but it is not so easy to protect against sabotage on the tracks ...

[Barge_watchman]

I agree. but, the topic of steam locomotives? and he, by the way, is much slower than a diesel locomotive ... it is easier to aim ...
Blinding. save only from 7,62. Antimaterial, from a kilometer, simply will not notice the obstacle.
About sabotage, I hinted. - with "pole mines" no one will climb on the rails. And the edges are partisan ...

[saygon66]

- We rode like that during the entire Civil and Patriotic War .... Both ours and the Germans. By the way, I did not hear anything about the use of diesel locomotives in that war ...

[Barge_watchman]

Vot!
Inattentively you read about the Civil. Then, the trains went like on a multi-colored patchwork quilt: white / red / green / transparent ...
The train crews were not touched - there was an unspoken agreement. Violators were punished viciously. (this, to make it clearer, is how to offend the only blacksmith in the neighborhood - there is no one to pull out a tooth or shoe a horse).
About the Second World War - it was different there. On our territory, mainly our brigades traveled - the equipment is ours, unfamiliar.
And they blew everything up, they didn’t take a steam bath. Therefore, a tender with coal was pushed in front of the locomotive.
And, the Germans guarded the piece of iron severely, the participants in the events told me a lot.
Diesel locomotives were not easy. There were diesel railcars.

[saygon66]

_ And, in spite of all this disgrace - the trains were running! Steam powered! In 1922, there was even an excess of 1200 steam locomotives in Soviet Russia!

[Barge_watchman]

What am I talking about?
the stoker driver, they could have crashed, but the locomotives simply did not touch - why ?!
And the "rail war" was invented later ...

[saygon66]

I will not say for the stoker, but the driver is the main part of the locomotive!

[Barge_watchman]

In any complex technique, the most expensive part is the carriage.
Looking at all the tubes, rods and pressure gauges in the locomotive's cabin, even for me, an injector engineer with many years of experience, it becomes ... interesting ...

[saygon66]

- You haven't seen the crankshaft of a diesel locomotive engine yet ...

[Barge_watchman]

God forbid!
I somehow pulled a knife from the valve of the diesel locomotive ...
And if I showed the crankshaft of the Tu-22 engine ...

[saygon66]

- In general, railway technology is epic! Steel, cast iron, non-ferrous ... Everything is two fingers thick, and the manufacturing tolerances are the same ...

[Barge_watchman]

in the nineties, it seems, was at the station of his city (transit line, in the city of 300 thousand), and saw ... a steam locomotive ... entering ... under steam!
Cool.
And such a small one, we have a monument in the city garden. Courting.
They say that in the north of the region, in the regional center, there is a parking lot for steam locomotives. Was. It is necessary to drive away what is left.

[saygon66]

- And we have a steam locomotive running this summer .. To Sovetsk and back!

- And here is the same "armored" car, from the armored train! Diesel generator inside!

[Barge_watchman]

Cool.
And the car is not the one in which Lenin was brought?

[saygon66]

- It is unlikely ... That somewhere on the siding tracks of the Finland station must defend! Wait....

[Barge_watchman]

It's a pity. such an association disappears! everyone knows that "the Bolsheviks were brought from Germany in a sealed armored carriage" (c)!
By the way, about "wait" .... do you think who else will bring ?!

[saygon66]

- If you believe that history moves in a spiral, then why not? There will always be someone "to go the other way" ...

[Barge_watchman]

"there is nothing new under the sun".)))

[saygon66]

- Yes ... But everything in this world is getting smaller. And today's enemies are unlikely to be able to manufacture individuals of the appropriate scale ...

[Barge_watchman]

I do not agree.
There are personalities, but they are dominated by the "terror of the environment", if there are no external conditions, no Genghis will raise the crowd on a march to the Last Sea ...

[saygon66]

- We have dashing guys! There will be enough people for confusion and robbery ... ) curators in fear to keep and found a new state - will there be?

[Barge_watchman]

"here and there, the leaders ..." (c)

[bandabas]

It is logical. As well as everything that belongs to "technique". It is not important - a steam locomotive, a tank or a rifle.

[Diverter]

1. The author is as far from the railway as I am from ballet. Fantomas is a diesel locomotive TE 3, 2TE116 is a Challenger. Those. without having studied the materiel, it is unreasonable to draw conclusions.
2. Engineers of steam locomotives were trained in the USSR, and they are being trained now. (from locomotive drivers). For owning the rights of a steam locomotive driver, they used to pay extra. (Now I don’t know)
3. For example, at the Smolensk storage base, steam locomotives are sent for re-conservation every three years. I think it's the same at other bases.
4. The steam locomotive is the ideal vehicle in case of war. Because he is not attached to anything. Firewood and sandy water can be found everywhere. Unlike diesel locomotives with their diesel fuel.
5. After the 8th grade, I entered the railway school and after finishing it, without entering the military, I had to work as a pommachinist before the deadline. So all these systems back in 1988, only a nervous tic was developed by a mechanic with an assistant, and did not provide safety. This means that there are no problems with the safety of steam locomotives during operation.
6. Write a serious site, and write nonsense yourself. Or do you really think that there are only fools in ROSREZERVA and Russian Railways and that is why they keep steam locomotives?

[Sancho_SP]

And where does the infa about the storage bases on the balance sheet come from? The most recent material, which already says that the base near Roslavl is the last and the locomotives are being scrapped, dates back to 2013.

[p0pulivox]

Doubts about the possibility of using steam locomotives as a mobility resource are more than justified. I know that in ancient and prosperous times, even vehicles and armored vehicles, which were in storage, were far from all and were not always in good condition. There is no information available on the proper care of the remaining steam locomotives! Who, how and when will deploy the necessary infrastructure and bring the locomotives themselves into a "combat-ready" state ?! It seems that in the best case, some of these devices can be used locally for hot water supply and local transportation ...

[Alex koch]

Do not hesitate that you do not have information, this is just good) The same people who are still doing this on the piece of iron will be deployed, put into a "combat-ready state" and exploited. And if the comparison with armored vehicles was hooked - the 115th tank repair plant, aka Kharkov armored, gate-to-gate with a reserve of guides for sorting, I happened to visit there when I was. A sad sight. Rows of rusty tank corps, a hefty workshop crammed with disassembled diesels under the roof. In general - sadness-longing.
Nothing, it got hot - and they began to restore

[Alex koch]

By the way, I wanted to write to the last article - no need to twist anything on the Kharkov-pass, they will drive out a couple of chassis on the move with the btz, they will suppress the arrows on the sorting - and that's it, no one goes to Kharkov

[latgalec]

Author ... you are not much wrong. Locomotives (including steam locomotives) are stored at the Reserve Bases, where routine maintenance is carried out, which keeps the locomotive in working order. The system for collecting water at intermediate stations has been preserved, there are warehouses with coal - there are warehouses, but there is no coal

[Vladimir Lenin]

Quote: Arzt

Forecast of the work of railway transport in a special period. The deed is necessary, everything will hold on to it

Seriously?! And in my opinion nonsense! If the author was really familiar with the topic, he would not have written this.
Fire trains are fueled with water from a steam locomotive hydrocolumn. For every 100 - 80 km of track, there must be an appropriate infrastructure in accordance with the orders and instructions of Russian Railways. Coal pits at junction and marshalling yards, although in lousy conditions, are still there! And if you wish, you can quickly bring into a divine form. Coal from Kemerovo is transported throughout the country and, oddly enough, the railway. compositions! As for the train drivers, as far as I know, until now the movement according to the instructions of the semaphore signal is included in the compulsory training program for students of the railway technical school. And I'll reveal a little secret! Locomotives do not drive across the country. Wagons yes! But the locomotives run on sections from one junction station to another and back. This is about km. 200 maximum!

[Private SA]

Quote: Bad_gr

Train, steam-powered, railway laid through the forest, etc. ...

BAM - pioneer rails ...

[Private SA]

Quote: A. Privalov

Questions: how did you deal with scale in boilers and different pipes? After all, water can be of different hardness.

We changed the pipes in steam boilers in locomotive depots following a driver's remark about a drop in traction.
And on the stretch, the stoker was more active shoveling with a shovel.

[Grim Reaper]

Quote: Grim Reaper

In the late 90s. Towards Tagil, over 2 hours by train. And then at an angle of 90 degrees. Two hours on a paraboot. On the very real paravoz. Three carriages. How did he visit in the 19th century

[Private SA]

Quote: Dead Day

the end of the 60s, do not forget the whistle, but at the bend they saw the locomotive itself (the last carriage was), remembered it for the rest of my life, and this smell, and even flying soot ...! beauty ! nostalgia...

And tea in a glass in a cupronickel cup holder. Packing in two pieces of refined sugar for a glass
tea. The guide's voice outside the door: "Would you like some tea?"
And the smell of a heated boiler (there were also cars where coal or wood
boilers from the vestibule were heated) and one 127 Volt outlet for electric shavers
per carriage.
Only the taste of "Takeoff" lollipops, handed out for free by the flight attendant (I have one
five times poured into the palm of your hand) is able to compete with a trip then by train.

[yehour]

It’s a pity for the author to do a colossal (at the present time) survey work and all in vain! Conclusions break down on one concrete argument: after a nuclear war, there will be no alternative to returning steam-powered technology. Therefore, all the necessary forces and means will be thrown into its restoration and maintenance. Everything else is lyrics.

[bulat]

When they talk about locomotives, they forget about such a "trifle" as a service shoulder and turning circles. The service arm was lengthened when switching to electric locomotive traction. The working depots were removed. The locomotive needs to enter the depot after 50-100 km. Now the service arms are two to four times longer. This is one time. Second, how are we going to deploy steam locomotives? There are no turning circles anywhere.

[Alex koch]

Kharkov-Osnova, turntable is quite a working

[Alex koch]

Krasny Liman - similar

[Alex koch]

Kupyansk-Uzlovy

[Alex koch]

These are only those that I myself saw in working order, it does not seem that in 8 years they were dismantled into metal

[bulat]

It is Ukraine.

[Alex koch]

Ukraine, and?

[saygon66]

- Turning circle in Chernyakhovsk

[Diverter]

Tambov 1 turntable is used now

[Pavel the builder]

A steam locomotive passes 300-450 km at full refueling

[Valery Prokhorov]

And why did we talk about steam locomotives at all? Well, with electricity it is clear, but there are modern locomotives on a different principle of movement. All kinds of diesel locomotives and the like.

[Sancho_SP]

It is assumed that the diesel fuel has run out. The introduction is far-fetched, of course, but cars with gas generators were still used in the war.

[UA3QHP]

Now it is worth considering the issue of resuscitation of animal-drawn transport.

[saygon66]

- Well, yes ... How does a horse get started?

[Pavel the builder]

Do you think the locomotive has cardan shafts on wheelsets? Generator stands and electric motors

[Borisych]

A steam locomotive sounds proud! No need for diesel fuel, fuel oil, oil and gas. Firewood to the tender and go!

[p0pulivox]

I'm afraid to disappoint the dreamers, but an imperceptible feeling suggests that firewood is not the best fuel for a steam locomotive, and you won't find it in the required amount at every stop. And yes, the most important thing: has anyone counted how many diesel locomotives we have in the ranks and at reserve bases, and how many locomotives are available to replace them (even without taking into account their condition)? Available sources paint a sad picture - dozens of steam locomotives all over the country are at best on the move or suitable for restoration ...

[restless]

I’m disappointed, there are thousands of locomotives in reserve storage....

[TOR2]

An important component. On modern technology, there are systems that ensure safety. CLUB, SAUT, TSKBM, ALSN, which really do a lot for the safe operation of the locomotive and its crew. They control, notify, signal and even slow down the train.

In the event of a serious mess, you should not rely on these systems. The CLUB generally uses (or at least used to use) GPS signals for its work. If the good old ALSN works, it will work only sporadically and intermittently, just like signaling systems. The only system that can survive in such conditions is the USAVP. A map of objects is in the on-board memory, and is oriented in space using inertial motion.

[Andrey Ivanov_5]

steam locomotive for the situation "IF EVERYTHING GOES BAD",
The far-sighted government is preparing for this situation as well.

[dgonni]

The author compares warm with soft!
First! Under the union, steam locomotives were planned not to replace heat and power, but to replace electric locomotives, in the event of a fall and the absence of electric traction!
Second!
Everything that is stored in the form of steam locomotives has long been transferred to oil / fuel oil power. No wood or coal!
There are problems with water supply. For? For the infrastructure is rotten and in fact it is not there. Which does not forbid attaching a cistern for 60 tons of water to the steam locomotive with the first wagon and solving the problem.
What is correctly indicated in the material, so this is the fact that there is no one to control these units!
Education? Wow and how?
I knew grandfathers who rode steam locomotives. And they even remembered coal.
I have bad news for the author.
Assistant driver had to plow over 5 years. To learn how to manage the steam and keep the speed.

[restless]

The author drove away some game, as they say in certain circles, drove away empty. Steam locomotives in conservation are as good as new, metal fatigue is for tin cars, and not for boiler metal where the safety margin lasts for centuries. There will be no electricity or diesel fuel, steam locomotives will replace diesel with electric locomotives, and water locomotive pumps can be installed in one day, so the author was talking some nonsense.

[p0pulivox]

Quote: restless

I’m disappointed, there are thousands of locomotives in reserve storage....

Quote: restless

The author drove away some game, as they say in certain circles, drove away empty. Steam locomotives in conservation are as good as new, metal fatigue is for tin cars, and not for boiler metal where the safety margin lasts for centuries. There will be no electricity or diesel fuel, steam locomotives will replace diesel with electric locomotives, and water locomotive pumps can be installed in one day, so the author was talking some nonsense.

In this case (if you not from alternate reality or the sphere of enemy disinformation) indicate the source of your unshakable optimism.

[Archon]

In some cases, it is easier to dig up coal, since it is ready for use, but producing modern diesel is a more complex technological process. But with diesel fuel, diesel locomotives are indeed much more efficient, without a doubt.

[Shkworen]

Modern steam locomotives in Switzerland, on some high mountain routes, can run on gas and use dry steam technology, which gives greater efficiency than a traditional steam engine.

[VicktorVR]

Logistically, everything is correct, but in fact, there are regions where there is (much) more coal than oil.

The author obviously only heard about metal fatigue somewhere.
"Metal fatigue" occurs under variable loads. No metal fatigue could have accumulated in the mothballed locomotives.

Grandfather worked as a fireman and driver. And before that at the locomotive repair plant. With education "orphanage during the war." If necessary, we will sort it out somehow.

A pressure of 20 atm is not that much in modern times, the presence of the same electric welding decides a lot about why a forge was needed before.
CNC machines, laser/plasma/waterjet/gas-flame cutting are now in almost every garage; if necessary, a lot can be made.

But most likely there will be no need. “If something happens,” civilian transportation will be closed, the railway will switch to military mode, diesel locomotives will be enough, as will diesel fuel.

[Pavel the builder]

As a means of one-way delivery in emergency situations, a steam locomotive will still work; there are many places where there are forests around and plenty of water. During the Second World War, the horse was a draft force for a long time and even camels carried guns

[zenion]

As soon as everything is dry, they will make fire by rubbing sticks.

[polygon_v]

Coal, firewood... In the 1960s, there were no coal locomotives at the Kostroma-Novaya station. All locomotives ran on liquid fuel.

[Sergey Stepanov_5]

He’ll grab it and you’ll remember the horse, but they’re not there!

[Eule]

. CLUB, SOUTH, TSKBM, ALSN, which really

Briefly - if there is a nuclear explosion in space, where there are no material objects that can be evaporated, causing a shock wave, (and the plasma cloud from which partially absorbs the EMP), then almost all the energy will go into the EMP. Therefore, with a certain combination of height and charge power, one “product” will break all electronics within a radius of hundreds of kilometers. Without considering tertiary damaging factors, it can be noted that no systems with long wires will work for a very long time. Semaphores, non-electronic diesel engines, acytelene welding from carbide.
Therefore, steam locomotives are a reserve for “After”, or rather a guarantee that there will be no people willing to fight with a country that will preserve its integrity by restoring transportation. Slow, complex, but working railways are the integrity of the country.

[terror_204l]

http://naduvnushka.ru/ustroistvo-naduvnoi-lodki.html
http://kashlinskaya.ru/sotrudnichedtvo.php
http://vihrclub.ru/
http://gantelya.com/travma_mishc/travmu_svyazok/
https://barcaman.ru/publ/1-1-0-148

[Oberleutnant]

Well done, Roman. Everything was described so correctly!

[Stas57]

Everything written above, yes, but still nonsense, complete and uninteresting.
Why? Yes, because everything can be solved except for one thing - the driver.
There are no drivers. A steam locomotive driver cannot be trained in short courses in 3 months. This is a Profession, this is experience, these are years of training.
All disputes can end here.

[Andrey S]

Now in Russia there are approximately 50 operating steam locomotives, that is, they are fully operational. They are used both for parades and in exercises of railway troops. Well, if we talk about fuel, we must not forget that a diesel locomotive also does not move from the air, it also needs fuel, which in combat conditions will be no easier than coal, and maybe even more difficult.

[Vitaliy Lukk]

Here in St. Petersburg I regularly see steam locomotives running along the Nevsky overpass. I repeatedly saw them on freight trains in different areas of the city. Perhaps they are one and the same, but nevertheless there are quite a lot of them in the depot.

https://vk.cc/caBNSW

These videos show the same locomotive SO17-2359
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HvqDw2hTJ8
https://youtu.be/2MrzOjHljC8

[Sergey BM]

In order for steam locomotives to start moving along the railways of Russia, it is necessary to create coal reserves at almost every station.

Personally, I think it's easier to stuff a locomotive with electronics, although it looks stupid.

What nonsense...
The author is clearly an effective manager, not an engineer!
That an ordinary oil-fired boiler burner can be placed in the furnace - but it doesn’t work?
Fuck coal?
Much easier than stuffing it with electronics.
And in general the article is delusional, nonsense upon nonsense.

[mmaxx]

Eh! I passed through Slyudyanka on February 17th. There were two locomotives standing in the depot and smoking! The steam was released. What a beauty!

[Kazimirchik I.]

"Metal fatigue is not a fairy tale. Especially when it comes to power structures. After all, a steam locomotive is not a garden cart. Tubes, cylinders, boilers, superheaters - all this after 70 years"

In fact, metal fatigue does not depend on age - metal fatigue depends on variable loads. If the power structure remains motionless for 70 years, then there is no metal fatigue.