Military Review

Rocket "Zircon". Even more speed

180

Cold test



In November 2021, an unusual lot appeared at the Breker auction - a prototype of the Kholod hypersonic flying laboratory. History "Cold" itself ended two decades ago, but now, due to the growing interest in hypersonic vehicles, it is worth telling it again.

From a practical point of view, the main element of the hypersonic laboratory was the 11-meter missile of the S-200 complex. Without a liquid-propellant jet engine with a thrust of 10 tons, there could be no talk of hypersound.

The highlight was the head part. There were samples of hypersonic ramjet engines (scramjet engines) with control systems and fuel reserves. The purpose of the experiment was to study the operation of a scramjet engine running on cryogenic fuel (hydrogen) in the speed range 3,5–6,5 M.

The scramjet unit was part of the rocket design and did not make independent flights. Nevertheless, the instruments each time recorded disturbances when the engine was turned on. Of course, in that avalanche of fire created by a liquid-propellant rocket engine with a thrust of 10 tons, it was not easy to determine a mere percentage of additional thrust.

The purpose of the GL "Kholod" was not to make flights with the help of a scramjet engine. That would be too bold an expectation.

The project participants were interested in the processes in the combustion chamber in real conditions at hypersonic speeds. The goal was to test the basic principles of such an engine. And is his work even possible.

The combustion chamber has been proven to work. This became the main meaning of experiments with the participation of the Kholod hypersonic flying laboratory.

In the foreign project X-43A, the achievement of hypersonic speeds was carried out in two stages. The first "stage" was the B-52 bomber, which lifted the hypersonic aircraft with an accelerator to an altitude of 10 km and reported to this "bunch" a speed of 900 km / h. The accelerator was, neither more nor less, the light-class Pegasus space launch vehicle.

To communicate to the apparatus with a mass of 1 kg, a speed of 400 M, 7 tons of rocket fuel were consumed. Acceleration to a speed of 15M demanded full effort from the Pegasus. In this version, the mass of the rocket was 9 tons.

Unlike the Cold, the X-43A still separated from the missile. However, it remained a hypersonic glider. The fuel reserve on board was a whole 1 kg of hydrogen, to ensure the engine's operation for 11 seconds. The goal was again to study the processes in the combustion chamber at high Mach numbers.


It is no secret that hypersound was achieved only due to the thrust of a space rocket. But overseas hastened to present the X-43 as "the fastest aircraft with a scramjet engine." So he entered the "Book of Records".

Hit ships with hypersound


For the 9-swing anti-ship missile "Zircon", all the problems identified are long gone. Secret technologies made it possible to "tamp" the space launch vehicle into the dimensions of the frigate launcher.

Not forgetting to save space for the aircraft itself with a hypersonic engine.

Seriously speaking.

Assumptions about "Zircon", as about an unknown modification of "Onyx" with a more powerful accelerator, "which will throw the rocket to the required height, giving it a speed of 9 M", have nothing to do with reality.

This is indicated by well-known examples.

An example of GL "Cold".

The 58L hypersonic engine used in the project had a mass of 205 kg, excluding the equipment that occupied the first and second sections of the missile defense system. The total value of the load can be estimated at several hundred kilograms. To accelerate to a speed of "only" 6,5 M, it took the world's largest anti-aircraft missile, which burned more than 2 tons of liquid fuel and two tons of solid fuel.


Example X-43A.

The mass of the apparatus is 1 kg. The achieved values ​​are 400 M and 7 M. Air launch. The mass of the rocket booster in each case was 9,6 and, respectively, 15 tons.

What does this mean?

When discussing the 9-swing Zircon, one should not pin hopes on achieving this speed with the help of the starting accelerator. A solid or liquid propellant rocket capable of accelerating an anti-ship missile up to Mach 9 will under no circumstances fit in a cell of the 3S14 ship firing complex (UKSK).

This can only be provided by a hypersonic ramjet engine, which does not require an oxidizer supply on board. Ambient air is used as an oxidizing agent. Therefore, any air-jet engine is many times superior in specific thrust to liquid and solid-propellant rocket engines.

However, it doesn't work that easily on hypersound.

At high Mach values, a paradoxical situation arises when the energy of the air entering the engine exceeds the energy of the fuel-air mixture leaving the combustion chamber.

Instead of creating thrust, a running engine, on the contrary, slows down the flight, being a source of excess resistance on the path of the oncoming flow. Of course, this situation will last for a few milliseconds, then detonation will occur with the destruction of the combustion chamber.

These are the common problems when creating a scramjet engine.

The solution is to achieve the maximum possible air flow rate in the engine (supersonic combustion), which will not only keep the combustion chamber intact, but also create the necessary thrust value to ensure flight. That immediately runs into another problem - the fuel does not have time to burn in such an engine. Therefore, in well-known experiments, the problem was flooded with liquid hydrogen.

Doesn't exist today not a single example of an operating scramjet engine for flight at speeds above 6 M, which would create enough thrust to maintain hypersonic speed and could use something more practical than hydrogen as fuel.

Except for the mysterious Zircon rocket.

In all known experiments, scramjet models were used that worked in an incoming air flow, which practically did not create thrust. The devices reached their hypersonic parameters only with the help of rocket boosters of a very robust size.

Is it enough to overclock to 5M?


As a proposal: give the device a speed of 5 M, after which the switched on scramjet will accelerate it to the required 9 speeds of sound!

Air-jet engine, efficient enough at flight speeds of 5, 6, 7, 8 and beyond 9M.

Yes, this is exactly what the proposed idea sounds like, which is popular among many participants in the discussion of Zircon.

Let the readers themselves rate this idea.

The author will allow himself to add that in none of the modern concepts (for example, the Russian hypersonic laboratories GLL-AP or GLL-AP-02) the possibility of something like this is not considered.

There is reason to believe that the inclusion of a scramjet engine at a speed of 5 M will limit the maximum speed to about 7 M. The process of fuel combustion at even higher speeds will require a different design of the combustion chamber.

This conclusion follows from the test results of the Kh-43A. All details about the project were made publicly available. From shots taken from the side of a hypersonic aircraft, to the layout and layout of technological holes on the hull, with an explanation of their purpose.

One model of the engine was intended for testing at speeds up to 7 M. The second - at high speeds. In the illustration below, you can get acquainted with some of the details related to the combustion chamber and the design of the scramjet engine.

Rocket "Zircon". Even more speed

In all previous tests, scramjet-powered hypersonic vehicles could not even maintain flight at the speed that the rocket stage told them. Taking into account such "successes", the acceleration of an anti-ship missile from 5 to 9 M only with the help of a scramjet engine sounds unrealistic at the present time.

Physics and lyrics


The Zircon supporters were never embarrassed by the simultaneous presence of the Onyx anti-ship missile system and 9-swing anti-ship missiles in service. Indeed, in the presence of hypersound, the former turn into “stone axes”. The operation of all available anti-ship missiles will lose its meaning when weaponcapable of striking aircraft carriers and enemy fleets 3-5 times faster.

History has never seen anything like it. So that muzzle-loading caronads and rapid-firing miniguns would stand nearby on the deck.

Further, such breakthrough technologies, allowing flights in the atmosphere at 9 M, for some reason found application only in one single project. New engines, new fuels, new materials. When flying at a speed of 9 M for a couple of minutes, the skin temperature will be 15 times higher than that of the supersonic Onyx. A new era in materials science and rocketry!

However, all other modern projects of a similar purpose do not contain anything that would indicate the possible use of Zircon technologies.

"Caliber", unique missile "Onyx" or put into service in 2016 aviation The Kh-32 anti-ship missiles do not show a sensational performance gap.

And finally, how are the statements about the imminent adoption of a 9-fly rocket with the news from the "Flight Research Institute. MM. Gromov ", where work is underway to re-equip the Il-76MD military transport aircraft (board number 76454) into a carrier aircraft of the new generation hypersonic flying laboratory GL-AP-02, which has been undergoing tests at stands for more than ten years in order to study flight at speed 6 M. Of course, in the case of a real launch, a multi-ton rocket booster will be used to reach hypersonic speed.


Photo: Igor Dvurekov / russianplanes.net


Photo: S.V. Gurov

It is urgent to inform the LII management that they are stuck in the past. Now the trend is the speed of Mach 9.

Epilogue


If we do not know about this, it does not mean that this cannot be. On the other hand, it cannot be argued that everything that we do not know about necessarily exists.

Over the past few years, the author has been making an annual review on this topic, delving deeper and deeper into the story of "Zircon" and hypersound. And with each new announcement of an increase in its speed, from the original 5-6 M to the current nine, this project is acquiring more and more grotesque features and diverges from the observed reality. The reality looks different. There are problems associated with the adoption of technology with a much more traditional design.

This year, the launch footage presented took into account an unfortunate mistake made when filming past tests. They began to retouch the footage, in which the operation of the attitude control engines at the head of the rocket was noticeable, followed by the shooting off of the engine air intake cover.

All too obvious signs inherent in only one, the only existing anti-ship missile with such a feature. RCC "Onyx". Which stood out too much on the launch footage in the fall of 2020 and immediately raised a number of natural questions.


Very convincing footage confirming the creation of weapons that will change all existing ideas about missile technology and aviation.
Author:
180 comments
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 13 December 2021 06: 00
    +11
    The author has let the fog go ... what
    We are waiting for a real show of Zircons ... and not understandable videos.
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 13 December 2021 06: 14
      -11
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      We are waiting for a real show of Zircons ... and not understandable videos.

      On May 9 on Red Square fellow
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 13 December 2021 07: 38
        +8
        The author will allow himself to add that in none of the modern concepts (for example, the Russian hypersonic laboratories GLL-AP or GLL-AP-02) the possibility of something like this is not considered.

        The commentator will allow himself to add that there is no information about successful tests of these GLDs, and this is strange - prestige, priority, interest. The risk of know-how leaks is minimal, if you do not write about them, limiting yourself only to the very fact of success. At the same time, we love to talk about achievements. They write about successful tests of weapon systems without any problems. It turns out that since the end of the 90s there have been no publications on flight tests of scramjet engines from academic researchers, although the systems applied in practice should differ very much from the "Cold" (and the concepts of the new GLP are still different).
        1. lucul
          lucul 13 December 2021 12: 00
          -12
          "It turns out that since the end of the 90s there have been no publications on flight tests of scramjet engines from academic researchers, although the systems applied in practice should differ from the" Cold "very much (and the concepts of the new GLP are still different)."


          So Cold proved everything, it was on it that hypersonic flight was first obtained.)))
          1. Santa Fe
            13 December 2021 12: 03
            +8
            hypersonic flight was first obtained on it.)))

            Hypersonic flight was obtained using a 5V28 liquid propellant rocket engine of the S-200V complex
            1. lucul
              lucul 13 December 2021 12: 07
              +6
              "Hypersonic flight was obtained using a liquid-propellant rocket engine 5V28 complex S-200V"


              This is such infa for everyone, but in fact:
              the first flight with the launch of the E-57 scramjet engine, which was automatically switched on and off twice during the experiment, having worked for a total of 27,5 s. Despite the fact that the work of E-57 during the first experiment ended abnormally due to burnout of the combustion chamber, the main goal was achieved: in practice, the possibility of organizing supersonic combustion in a scramjet engine was confirmed. At the same time, a speed of 1653 m / s (M = 5,6) was reached at an altitude of 35 km. Never before has an aircraft powered by atmospheric air accelerated to such a speed.
              GLL "Kholod" during the flight did not separate from the rocket, and the flight tests did not provide for the salvage of the spent engine, however, according to the results of trajectory measurements, it was possible to find the fallen laboratory hundreds of kilometers from the start. Despite the deformations during the fall, the engine remained suitable for analyzing the state of the structure and was subsequently demonstrated more than once at various exhibitions.
              In principle, in this experiment, the task was not set to obtain real thrust on the E-57 engine. However, the analysis of telemetry in further experiments showed that the missile of the S-200 complex without the scramjet engine turned on could not fly so far, which means that the E-57 gave the GL "Cold" real acceleration.
              1. Santa Fe
                13 December 2021 12: 20
                +5
                Never before has an aircraft powered by atmospheric air accelerated to such a speed.

                LRE thrust 10 kgf, operating time - tens of seconds

                E-57 thrust (bench) - 300 kgf, operating time is also tens of seconds. Real thrust metrics, telemetry analysis, don't even publish

                The device used atmospheric air, but the flight was not his merit. In other words, instead of a ground stand, a scramjet model was installed in the head of a flying rocket. That's the whole story. + super practical fuel, liquid hydrogen
                1. lucul
                  lucul 13 December 2021 12: 28
                  +6
                  "The device used atmospheric air, but did not create any noticeable thrust during the flight."

                  Let's look at the basis:
                  The main obstacle to increasing the speed of aircraft that use atmospheric air for fuel combustion, rather than the supply of oxidizer on board, was the lack of an aircraft jet engine (WFE) capable of maintaining cruising hypersonic speed.

                  The most common type of engine in aviation is the turbojet engine (TJE). But at speeds above M = 3, it creates such resistance to the oncoming flow that no thrust is enough to overcome it. This problem has been partly learned to solve. To compress the air supplied to the combustion chamber of the turbojet engine, an axial compressor is used, which consists of several rotating wheels with profiled blades. However, with an increase in speed, the pressure of the air becomes such that for its even greater compression, the compressor becomes unnecessary. Such uncompressor engines are called ramjet (ramjet). Of course, they also lack the turbine used to drive the compressor. The ramjet to some extent solves the problem of reducing drag at high speeds. In the same SR-71 and MiG-25, the engines were arranged so that at maximum speeds they turned, in fact, into a ramjet engine, since air was passed through special channels for combustion directly into the afterburner, bypassing the compressor and turbine. Another example: the Soviet Storm cruise missile, created in 1957, could fly with a ramjet engine at a speed of 3500 km / h (M = 3,2) at an altitude of 17 km for several hours. But 3500 km / h is not hypersonic yet.
                  A pure hypersound is considered to be over 5 sound speeds. And this is not a certain conventional value, but a boundary in the area of ​​which the physical properties of the air flow change: molecules in the boundary layer near the surface of the aircraft begin to ionize, that is, they receive an electric charge. Because of this, the air turns, in fact, into a plasma, and the viscosity of the flow becomes so high that the ramjet engine cannot penetrate through it. A special type of engine is needed - a hypersonic ramjet engine (scramjet engine), the design of which makes it even more "transparent" for the oncoming flow and thereby reduce drag.

                  For stable combustion of fuel in the combustion chamber of a conventional ramjet engine, it is necessary to first brake the air flow in the air intake to subsonic speed. Otherwise, to put it very simply, the flame in the chamber will "blow out" or the fuel will not have time to burn out in it. However, it is highly undesirable to decelerate the hypersonic flow to subsonic speeds, since this produces powerful shock waves - the main source of increased resistance. Therefore, in the scramjet engine, the air intake channel is designed in such a way that the flow is not slowed down and remains supersonic in the combustion chamber. Is it possible to organize the combustion of fuel in such a stream? Only a flight experiment could answer this question, since it is still not possible to reproduce such conditions on ground test benches.
                  And the launch of "Kholod" confirmed this.
                  I would not be surprised if the "product 30" for the Su-57 uses supersonic fuel combustion for cruising supersonic)))
                  1. Santa Fe
                    13 December 2021 12: 35
                    +6
                    if the "product 30" for the Su-57 will use supersonic fuel combustion for cruising supersonic)))

                    And hydrogen in the tanks
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal 15 December 2021 00: 14
                      +1
                      It's time to switch to hydrogen in fighter aircraft good wink
                  2. ja-ja-vw
                    ja-ja-vw 13 December 2021 15: 31
                    +5
                    In the same SR-71 and MiG-25, the engines were arranged so that at maximum speeds they turned, in fact, into a ramjet

                    belay
                    The R15B-300 was not even close to being a direct flow or combined.
                    The phrase was transferred without comprehension from:
                    https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1038404&full

                    But the Pratt & Whitney J58-P4 was combined, due to its specific air intakes and an "external" direct-flow circuit
                    1. Bad_gr
                      Bad_gr 13 December 2021 18: 36
                      +4
                      Quote: ja-ja-vw
                      The R15B-300 was not even close to being a direct flow or combined.
                      Well, this is how to look.
                      Unlike the SR-71 engine (Pratt & Whitney J58-P4), the MiG-25 engine (TRDF R15B-300 (ed. 15B)) had only 5 stages in the compressor, so it was voracious at low speeds, but at high speeds (for which it was created), its compressor did not slow down the incoming air flow much, and therefore the engine thrust at a speed only increased. If at the ground it was 11200 kgf, then at 2 swings it left already for 20 tons.
                      The pilot had to make sure not to exceed the maximum speed, since the engine allowed it, but it was possible to overheat the hull (after which it could "go corrugated").
                      Quote: ja-ja-vw
                      But the Pratt & Whitney J58-P4 was combined, due to its specific air intakes and an "external" direct-flow circuit
                      The same, not quite true.
                      ".... The main feature of the engine is the presence of a special bypass, through which 20% of the incoming air from the fourth stage of the compressor (there are 9 of them) was supplied to the afterburner. This made it possible to ensure its stable long-term operation, increase thrust and unload the compressor in order to ensuring the operation of the gas generator, otherwise, instead of creating thrust, it turns into a brake ..... "" ..... Such a scheme of work made it possible to expand the speed range of the effective operation of the engine to M = 3,2. At the same time, the engine was inferior in weight characteristics both turbojet and ramjet engines, and this experience has not received widespread use. .... "
                      Of course, in front of the engines, the air flow of both the aircraft and the other was formed by the air intakes. By the way, the SR-71 at speeds close to maximum, due to the properties of the air intakes, pumping of the engines is not at all uncommon.
                      1. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 14 December 2021 11: 24
                        0
                        I don’t understand why you wrote this to me.
                        I am not a supporter of "just a little, partially or not quite" pregnancy
                        Quote: lucul
                        ... In the same SR-71 and MiG-25, the engines were arranged so that at maximum speeds they turned, in fact, into a ramjet engine, since air was passed through special channels for combustion directly into the afterburner, bypassing the compressor and turbine.

                        this is not true.
                        Ramjet -
                        The jet engine is the simplest in the class of air-jet engines (VRM) in terms of design. Refers to the type of direct reaction VRM, in which thrust is created solely due to the jet stream emanating from the nozzle

                        1.R15B-300 is not a direct flow, not a combined
                        2.Pratt & Whitney J58 - is a combo
                        3. To sculpt photos of Pratt & Whitney J58 WITHOUT a nozzle is meaningless
                      2. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 14 December 2021 15: 48
                        0
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        1.R15B-300 is not a direct flow, not a combined
                        And I didn’t claim that he was a ramjet engine, but at high speeds it is closer to a ramjet engine than a turbojet engine, since air enters the combustion chamber mainly due to speed, the role of the compressor in this process is insignificant. Hence the engine power. At low speeds, the power-to-weight ratio of the MiG-25 is one and a half times lower than that of the Su-27, but compare their maximum speeds.
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        2.Pratt & Whitney J58 - is a combo

                        Combined - yes, but it does not completely switch to the direct-flow mode, otherwise why block the air discharge from the compressor from the compressor directly to the afterburner on the engine. The direct-flow mode does not need a compressor at all.
                        The MiG and SR-71 engines operate at high speeds at modes close to ramjet engines, but the designer solved this problem in completely different ways. Ours is simpler, due to a very short compressor, which does not interfere with the air flow at high speeds, on SR - due to the redirection of air flows through the bypass channels.
                        If the SR-71 had a continuous flight mode at subsonic speeds, then a 9-stage compressor on the engine would be in place, but the SR flies at those speeds where this compressor only interferes. That is, the overcomplicated design and the fact that such an approach is not being used now speaks for itself.
                      3. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 14 December 2021 20: 32
                        +1
                        Soluhaite, well, stop trolling
                        1. You got in, so read what I wrote about and what
                        2.
                        but at high speeds it is closer to a ramjet engine in its work

                        REPEAT: I do not support the theory of "partially pregnant, pregnant, but not fully"
                        I gave the definition of a straight-through.
                        Listen to Putin, about a grandmother who has 21 fingers. Everything is available there
                        3.
                        since air enters the combustion chamber mainly due to the speed

                        fool
                        Compressor - word look what it does.
                        Air enters through the air intake, HOLE, in your terminology, the compressor provides COMPRESSION.
                        IF there is a "valve" (surges) and high-speed pressure, there will be compression, no: nothing will happen
                        4.
                        [Combined - yes, but it does not completely switch to direct-flow mode

                        I spoke ONLY ABOUT COMBINED, DIDN'T CALL IT DIRECT
                        request
                      4. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 14 December 2021 20: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        Sokuugayte, well, stop trolling
                        "Sokyuugayte" - which one?
                        "Well, stop trolling" - that is, you have scientific calculations here, but I have trolling?

                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        REPEAT: I do not support the theory of "partially pregnant, pregnant, but not fully"
                        I'm not an expert on pregnant women, I told you about engines.

                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        Air enters through the air intake, HOLE, in your terminology,

                        There are two smart here: me and the moderator
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
              2. military_cat
                military_cat 13 December 2021 12: 20
                +3
                Quote: lucul
                At the same time, a speed of 1653 m / s (M = 5,6) was reached at an altitude of 35 km. Never before has an aircraft powered by atmospheric air accelerated to such a speed.
                Quote: lucul
                However, the analysis of telemetry in further experiments showed that the missile of the S-200 complex without the scramjet engine turned on could not fly so far, which means that the E-57 gave the GL "Cold" real acceleration.

                In 1997, the GLL accelerated to 6.2M, while the scramjet did not turn on at all (more precisely, it was absent, instead there was a mass and size model).
            2. Demon_is_ada
              Demon_is_ada 15 December 2021 01: 31
              -1
              Zircon flies well. The picture was taken by me when I heard a snorting sound, the apparatus was no longer visible. I removed the trail, since the intermittent trail is only from the ramjet
              https://disk.yandex.ru/i/oLJAlXPsG-JZyQ
              Something I could not upload the photo, so the link to Yandex disk. Don't swear, it's not very convenient from the phone ...
          2. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat 13 December 2021 20: 55
            +1
            Quote: lucul
            it was on it that hypersonic flight was first obtained.)))

            For the first time, a hypersonic flight was "obtained" on a German V-2, peak speed - 5.760 km / h. wink
            1. Fission power
              Fission power 14 December 2021 15: 11
              0
              Well, this is poor. As far as I understand, this is the speed at the actual "peak" of the trajectory, its very upper part, which is somewhere in the mesosphere, and there the swings lose their meaning, because the rarefaction of the air is too great. So these ballistic missiles can be considered the first space missiles, if we follow the classification of the organizers of suborbital flights.
        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 13 December 2021 12: 17
          +17
          Quote: military_cat
          They write about successful tests of weapon systems without any problems.

          And why not write about them, if when the Zircon was launched from the Admiral Gorshkov frigate of the Northern Fleet, which fired the Zircon missile at a sea target located in the White Sea, the observation was carried out from NATO ships (and, for sure, from satellites) , and the location of the target is not a secret. There is the distance from the ship to the target, there is the launch time and the time of the missile falling into the target area. With this data, even a schoolchild can calculate the average speed of a rocket. What secrets could there be?
          1. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat 13 December 2021 21: 05
            -3
            Quote: Bad_gr
            the observation was carried out from NATO ships (and, for sure, from satellites), and the location of the target is not a secret. There is the distance from the ship to the target, there is the launch time and the time of the missile falling into the target area.

            But none of the parties provided real telemetry. At least a video of hitting a target. And they will not provide, I think, for NATO - the Russian "hypersound" - a convenient horror story for increasing the budget. They are not stupid - to cut the branch on which they sit, spreading REAL telemetry.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 14 December 2021 01: 02
              -1
              Quote: And Us Rat
              But none of the parties provided real telemetry.
              What for ? There is a confirmed fact that we have such missiles (I gave the arguments above). And this is quite enough for "our partners" to know.
              1. And Us Rat
                And Us Rat 14 December 2021 02: 00
                -4
                Quote: Bad_gr
                Quote: And Us Rat
                But none of the parties provided real telemetry.
                What for ? There is a confirmed fact that we have such missiles (I gave the arguments above). And this is quite enough for "our partners" to know.

                Yes, the fact of the matter is that there is no fact. There are claims that it exists, but there is no confirmation.
                What you have brought, these are not arguments, this is the very statement, without facts. And I have already voiced the motive of the "partners".
                If tomorrow Putin says that he is building the Death Star, then NATO generals will swear on icons that they can see it on everyone's radar, so that they would give more money from the budgets of their countries.
    2. Seryoga64
      Seryoga64 13 December 2021 06: 16
      +8
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      We are waiting for a real show of Zircons ...

      What do we see at a speed of Mach 9?
      Tell us what you want to see?
      1. Babay Atasovich
        Babay Atasovich 13 December 2021 06: 56
        +14
        Quote: Seryoga64
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        We are waiting for a real show of Zircons ...

        What do we see at a speed of Mach 9?
        Tell us what you want to see?

        A moment between the past and the future!
        1. Seryoga64
          Seryoga64 13 December 2021 06: 59
          -5
          What MiG?
          One hundred and fiftieth?
          Really tell which video will astro you?
          How did something fly past your ear, but you still do not understand?
          1. Babay Atasovich
            Babay Atasovich 13 December 2021 07: 02
            +1
            Kokraz, after all, flew into my ear just for a long time, in the USSR, for which I hold on! You can not understand. hi
            1. Seryoga64
              Seryoga64 13 December 2021 07: 03
              -3
              But where do we really need ...
      2. Kalmar
        Kalmar 13 December 2021 08: 44
        +11
        Quote: Seryoga64
        What do we see at a speed of Mach 9?
        Tell us what you want to see?

        MO high-speed cameras can't afford it?
        Here, for example, a railgun projectile flies on a 7M:

        And here is a beam of photons passing through the bottle:

        There would be a desire, in general.
      3. vadimtt
        vadimtt 13 December 2021 11: 53
        +2
        I would like to see at least the implementation of the HPWG external detonation combustion with a variable shock front. The spectacle should be enchanting with the energies required for flight at 9M! bully
      4. Santa Fe
        13 December 2021 12: 33
        +7
        Anything similar

        4
        Flight footage of an ICBM and a Chinese glider

        Of course, the flight footage is nothing more than a beautiful gesture in support of the statements. The real confirmation will be the use of Zircon technologies in many projects.
      5. 3danimal
        3danimal 15 December 2021 01: 34
        0
        Display of the rocket at the exhibition.
        In appearance, it will immediately be clear what kind of engine it has.
    3. Serg Kam
      Serg Kam 13 December 2021 08: 00
      0
      We are waiting for a real show of Zircons ...

      According to the old tradition, we have the highest achievements where objective comparison is impossible.
      For example, a light civil aircraft - we cannot do it.
      There are no breakthroughs in civilian rocketry either - a strong middle peasant, nothing more. Civilian drones are, alas, not ours. But to make a wunderwaffe that has no analogues is always. A hypersonic missile, electronic warfare, an underwater atomic drone is generally easy.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar 13 December 2021 08: 46
        +2
        Quote: SergKam
        But to make a wunderwaffe that has no analogues is always

        Designers lose motivation as soon as an analogue is found in the product being developed)
      2. Spring fluff
        Spring fluff 13 December 2021 10: 16
        +6
        you noticed the situation well. Many may not pay attention, but successes are announced in precisely those areas that cannot be verified - electronic warfare, air defense, zircon, avant-garde, .... I will not even talk about the Poseidon / Petrel, while all tested weapons are stalled - shipbuilding, armata, aircraft construction including su-57, il-112.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 13 December 2021 15: 06
          -1
          In the west, all this has already been recognized that they are in the hardware and work - and that you are going to check the appearance of neither Zircon nor the Vanguard, nor will they show any other hypersonic missiles - since their aerodynamic design features are a military secret.
        2. Fission power
          Fission power 14 December 2021 15: 17
          -1
          When they begin to justify fanatical disbelief with intertwined comparisons like “everything is bad, but what is good is unverifiable), you understand that the MO does everything right.
      3. Babay Atasovich
        Babay Atasovich 13 December 2021 10: 40
        +5
        Quote: SergKam
        For example, a light civil aircraft - we cannot do it.

        But-But! An-2 cannot be surpassed! am
      4. lucul
        lucul 13 December 2021 11: 24
        -13
        "According to the old tradition, the highest achievements of us where objective comparison is impossible. "


        Is it in Israel or what? )))
    4. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 13 December 2021 10: 27
      +7
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The author has let the fog go.

      No fog. The author assures that "Zircon" is a myth, like SOI of mattress covers. Well, everything is clear with SDI, but with Zircon ..?
      1. svoroponov
        svoroponov 13 December 2021 12: 31
        +13
        Rocket - torpedo Shkval. The Americans believed that torpedoes could not reach such speeds in an aquatic environment. But in our country the designers actually proved that they can.
        It is considered impossible to control the apparatus running in the plasma. Russian designers denied this and found a solution. So if he himself did not see this, it does not mean that there is no such thing. It's just that these are areas of very protected state secrets, so they will not be particularly spread about them.
        And the author of such articles just needs the fact of the discussion, suddenly someone blabs something in the process.
        1. Serg Kam
          Serg Kam 13 December 2021 13: 40
          +2
          Rocket - torpedo Shkval. The Americans believed that torpedoes could not reach such speeds in an aquatic environment.

          Well, don't think the whole world is stupid.
          At one time we studied this torpedo - apart from the advantages in speed, it had a huge cloud of disadvantages, because of which it was not used.
          For a start - when the SHKVAL is walking, he is practically blind, he cannot aim.
          Therefore, only a nuclear warhead was installed on SHKVAL. Even cover with an area, if it is impossible to hit pointwise.

          Plus, the short range (up to 13 km) makes this torpedo dangerous for the carrier itself - what if the carrier itself is damaged by a vigorous explosion?

          I generally keep quiet about the noise.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 13 December 2021 15: 17
            -1
            Considering the speed of this torpedo is 375 kilometers per hour and the range is 13 kilometers, the torpedo will cover this distance in 125 seconds in a direct attack, and the Flurry was created just for this, the ship has no chances to avoid being hit and no PLO on the ship will help. An explosion of 150 kt at a distance of 13 kilometers for the submarine will not pose a danger.
            1. Serg Kam
              Serg Kam 13 December 2021 15: 41
              +5
              Given the speed of this torpedo 375 kilometers per hour and a range of 13

              375 is the maximum speed.
              But she still needs to accelerate. So the turn time is about 3 minutes. Moreover, it will be immediately detected by the rumble.
              This is the first.
              Secondly, it is ideal not to direct it. Even a standing target. A slight movement of the waves - and she went by.
              In World War II, for example, torpedo hits - about 15% of launches. This despite the fact that the torpedoes already had homing. So you need to launch a fan of such torpedoes? Or hit at close range, to be sure.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 13 December 2021 17: 05
                -8
                Of course, launch at least 4 pieces per salvo with a fan, since the warhead is only 210 kg and I very much doubt that the wave is capable of changing the direction of movement of a torpedo weighing more than 2000 kilograms traveling at a speed of more than 100 meters
                in a second and where does such a wave come from on the high seas, well, except to shoot at a storm
                But she still needs to accelerate. So the turn time is about 3 minutes. Moreover, it will be immediately detected by the rumble. - And what the ship will do in terms of PLO in three minutes and the main thing than to intercept a torpedo going under water at a speed of more than 100 meters per second
                In World War II, for example, torpedo hits - about 15% of launches - In the courtyard, if the 21st century of guidance and observation systems have advanced far ahead, the probability of a direct hit will now be much higher than 15%, all this makes the Flurry a rather formidable melee weapon at sea for submarines.
                1. Serg Kam
                  Serg Kam 14 December 2021 00: 03
                  +3
                  I doubt very much that the wave is capable of changing the direction of movement of a torpedo weighing more than 2000 kilograms traveling at a speed of more than 100 meters

                  Have you ever shot?
                  Did you fly in airplanes and fall into air pockets? Air, for example, very easily changes the direction of a bullet, or an airplane, although its density is a thousand times less than the density of water. And the speed of both bullets and aircraft is much higher than that of SHKVAL.

                  In the courtyard, if that is the 21st century, guidance and observation systems have advanced far ahead

                  Once again, SHKVAL does not have guidance systems, it simply does not. In terms of guidance, it is much worse than the torpedoes of the Second World War.
                  It left the torpedo tube with an error of only 1 degree - and flew 170 meters past. In ideal conditions.
                  That is why a SHKVAL with an ordinary warhead was never adopted.
                  And the best indicator of the efficiency of SHKVAL is that it is not used. Neither in Ash, nor in Borei, nor in 971 Pike - SHKVAL is not used.
              2. svoroponov
                svoroponov 13 December 2021 18: 00
                +6
                The question is not the range but the speed, the Amkrikans believed that this could not be achieved with a torpedo.
                1. Santa Fe
                  14 December 2021 10: 29
                  +1
                  The Amkrikans believed that this could not be achieved with a torpedo.

                  Vycheslav, this is an urban legend

                  The phenomenon of supercavitation was known in the west
                  Tulin, MP (1963). Supercavitating flows - small perturbation theory. Their main expert on this topic was considered Marshal Thulin (Marshal - name, not title)

                  Yes, I agree with you that no analogues of the Shkval were built in the west. Until the early 00s, when the German Barracuda was announced

                  Why didn't they create such a high-speed torpedo in the west? there were no direct statements that this could not be done. There could be other reasons. For example, our Flurry turned out to be a specific "niche" ammunition. Currently it is not in service.
        2. ANB
          ANB 14 December 2021 00: 26
          0
          ... Rocket - torpedo Shkval. The Americans believed that torpedoes in the aquatic environment could not reach such speeds.

          And I thought so. Until I saw and touched it with my own eyes. The very existence was a secret. The form and operating instructions were top secret and did not contain performance characteristics. Speed ​​and range were in the document of particular importance, I did not have access to it.
    5. Barberry25
      Barberry25 13 December 2021 11: 06
      -5
      tired of waiting ...
    6. Thrifty
      Thrifty 13 December 2021 14: 05
      -1
      Olen, how then, without an orientation engine, or an accelerator, immediately set the initial direction of flight to the rocket? And, besides the Cold project, there were a bunch of others connected with it, or intersecting, and the results were different. more precisely, oxygen for the reaction, it seems, is fixed at speeds of 15 and above, and you write about a maximum of 9M.
    7. fyvaprold
      fyvaprold 13 December 2021 15: 40
      0
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The author has let the fog go ... what
      We are waiting for a real show of Zircons ... and not understandable videos.

      The author lives in this fog. Mr. Kaptsov is developing before our eyes, from the usual ship modeling he first moved on to designing the newest Miracle Ships of the project "Invincible®"with a 12-inch, according to the author, does not affect the displacement,"Armor brand Krupp ©", then, as ̶в̶ ̶k̶a̶zh̶d̶o̶y̶ ̶b̶o̶ch̶k̶e̶ ̶e̶k̶s̶p̶e̶r̶t̶, a cruise missile specialist told about the" successes of the Yankes "in the modernization of" Tomahawks "and the" backwardness "of Russian" Calibers "(the reason is that in Russia there is nothing cannot and should not be better than in his new homeland), but now the waters have reached hypersound. The path from ship modeler to hypersonic technology expert has been covered in less than 10! years, however progress.
      Perhaps I'm wrong, but Mr. Kaptsov is developing a very dangerous disease - sausage, the main symptom of which is the urgent need to prove to everyone (and to yourself in the first place) that the move to another country was justified. To begin with, all (real, declared, imaginary) successes of the new Motherland are glorified and all failures are ignored (like, nothing, they will do it, here planning for centuries ahead, give a time), then on their own, or with someone's help, comes the realization of their own innocence to everyone these events in general, and to the New Homeland as a whole, but the mind resists this fact and then the next stage begins, that is, the search for failures and failures in their former homeland, if there are any, then they are taken apart piece by piece, and when they are not at hand , then they compose themselves, and then they sort it out piece by piece again. This article is a vivid example of this, from this "examination" a mile away carries conspiracy. The reason is simple - disorder in a new place, inability to integrate into a new society and lack of involvement with their new homeland, cause an irresistible desire to loudly declare - "No, I didn't give up my homeland to the sausage, I moved from a loser country to the Shining City on the Hill, where everything is breakthrough and innovative, and all of you, losers, keep on sipping cabbage soup with bast soup!".
      It is in this vein that I see the message of Mr. Koptsov, sent by him through a significant part of his hurray-American and would-be Russian "expert" articles. However, I may be mistaken, although the experience of communicating with former fellow citizens from among the sausage emigration tells me otherwise.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 13 December 2021 20: 32
        +20
        Quote: fyvaprold
        However, I may be mistaken, although ...
        You are not mistaken, you pour out your anger at the person who writes his articles on VO, expresses his opinion on the problem. He can be wrong, like any of us. But he presents the material in an interesting way. We always have something to talk about on the issues raised by him ...
        Oleg has 598 articles! And you have ZERO !!! So who brought more benefit to the site: you, with your "bad" assessments of the author, or Oleg, who speaks out on a number of areas of history and construction of equipment and weapons?
        And secondly. You need to criticize the article: those of its provisions with which you disagree (if, of course, there is something to say on the merits), and not the author's "hairstyle" and his social position-origin ... It seems to me so.
        Sorry if I spoke harshly about you. But I guess that's a fair judgment.
        Sincerely, Boa. hi
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 13 December 2021 21: 21
          +3
          He said beautifully, yes. crying
        2. Bow
          Bow 14 December 2021 19: 10
          +1
          Unfortunately, a person is far from always able to abstract from some personal moments and reason purely impartially on this or that topic. And if personal moments affect the "conclusions", then their consideration, when considering these "conclusions", is simply necessary if we want to seek the truth, and not stupidly admire the reflection of reality distorted in a distorted mirror, without thinking, but how everything is on the very business.
          The call “don't get personal” sounds nice, but cannot be proclaimed everywhere. If the "personality" gives conclusions much more than logic, then there is nowhere without considering this "personality".
          What do we have from the author? "We have not seen", "no one has done this", "technologies are not used in other projects", "why then there are other missiles, if this one is so cool?"
          Substitute "zircon" in place of, for example, "squall", rewind time several decades ago and you will see that these "logical judgments" are quite suitable there as well. Do you understand what I mean?
          1. Santa Fe
            15 December 2021 09: 41
            0
            The author is a convinced technocrat. For him, technology is above human destinies, ideologies and political moments.

            https://topwar.ru/165307-samye-bespoleznye-korabli.html
            https://topwar.ru/176389-ostrozubyj-skat-pod-flagami-treh-gosudarstv.html
            https://topwar.ru/189363-bespomoschnye-korabli-nato-chast-vtoraja.html

            Three sample articles from the past year. Can you identify personal motives from them?
            Substitute "zircon" in place of, for example, "squall", rewind time several decades ago and you will see that these "logical judgments" are quite suitable there as well.

            No, why do you think so

            The announcement of the new Soviet technology would have been taken with the utmost seriousness. The union did not show what was not, he usually did not show what he had
            1. Bow
              Bow 16 December 2021 11: 19
              +1
              If people really were who they see themselves as, then there would be no fat women in the world, and all the medals at the Olympics would be gold.
              Your own vision of yourself as a loved one in the context under discussion is absolutely unnecessary information.
            2. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 17 December 2021 01: 52
              -1
              Quote: Santa Fe
              The author is a convinced technocrat. For him, technology is above human destinies, ideologies and political moments.

              given similar reasoning in the author's articles
              The Zircon supporters were never embarrassed by the simultaneous presence of the Onyx anti-ship missile system and 9-swing anti-ship missiles in service. Indeed, in the presence of hypersound, the former turn into “stone axes”. The exploitation of all available anti-ship missiles will become meaningless when weapons appear that can strike aircraft carriers and enemy fleets 3-5 times faster.

              History has never seen anything like it. So that muzzle-loading caronads and rapid-firing miniguns would stand nearby on the deck.

              apparently also above logic ... request
              Quote: Santa Fe
              Three sample articles from the past year. Can you identify personal motives from them?

              I am! I can! bully two letters! soldier PR wink
              articles are read, discussed, despite the fact that the author often pulls facts by the ears and pulls an owl on the globe, but regularly provides the ground for discussion hi
        3. The comment was deleted.
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 13 December 2021 06: 12
    +7
    The speed of rockets for going into space is 40000 thousand kilometers per hour or Mach 33, maybe they don't fly into space, maybe the earth is flat.
    1. lis-ik
      lis-ik 13 December 2021 06: 24
      +4
      Quote: Pessimist22
      The speed of rockets for going into space is 40000 thousand kilometers per hour or Mach 33, maybe they don't fly into space, maybe the earth is flat.

      The conversation about the dimensions went on.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2021 08: 06
        +3
        Quote: lis-ik
        The conversation about the dimensions went on.

        Here is a real booster rocket that can fit into the UKSK 3S14, with minor modifications.

        Dimensions 3M55 Onyx
        Missile length: 8,6 m
        Rocket Diameter: 0,67 m
        Wingspan: 1,7 m
        Rocket weight:
        Starting - 3000 kg

        At an altitude of 26 km SS-540-4 reached a speed of ~ 2000 m / s, the speed of sound at this altitude ~ 296 m / s, which is 6,75M. At the first stage, there are still the second and third + payload.
        1. Santa Fe
          13 December 2021 09: 12
          +11
          Here is a real launch vehicle that can fit in UKSK 3S14
          At an altitude of 26 km SS-540-4 reached a speed of ~ 2000 m / s

          Do you think the Zircon is a conventional ballistic missile? Then why are these talks about hypersound

          If we we are not talking about anti-carbon ballistic missiles, then the example of the Japanese launch vehicle does not make sense. Discussed starting BOOSTER cruise missile. Anti-ship cruise missile with a flight range of 1000 km, with a warhead of 200-300 kg and thermal protection required for a 9M flight weighs many times morethan the payload and both "upper" stages of the SS-520

          A booster for an apparatus weighing 1400 kg, capable of giving it a speed of 9M, in a real example weighed 15-18 tons
          _______
          Why are long-range ballistic missiles (eg ICBMs) so large? And the negligible launch weight / payload ratio?

          Answer - Low specific impulse of rocket engines.

          To fly over a distance of 500 km, in the presence of a payload (warhead of Onyx / Caliber) with a starting weight of 2-3 tons, wings and air-jet engines are needed. When using which, no one has yet managed to get the speed of 9M
          1. Kalmar
            Kalmar 13 December 2021 09: 36
            +10
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Do you think the Zircon is a conventional ballistic missile? Then why are these talks about hypersound

            "Dagger" in its essence is also a ballistic missile, which does not interfere with calling it a hypersonic missile system. The marketing effect has been achieved, and let all sorts of boring people argue about the technical intricacies on specialized forums))

            Quote: Santa Fe
            To fly over a distance of 500 km, in the presence of a payload (Onyx / Caliber warhead) with a starting weight of 2-3 tons, wings and air-jet engines are required

            In order to dream up: what if we are talking about a certain glider (now this approach is in vogue)? After all, no one says that the notorious 9Ms are supported along the entire trajectory; all for the same marketing purposes, this value can indicate the maximum speed with a much lower average.
            1. Santa Fe
              13 December 2021 09: 59
              +4
              and if we are talking about a certain glider

              Zircon is not a glider, as indicated by the shallow trajectory when it is launched

              It looks like a cruise missile launch
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar 13 December 2021 10: 04
                +4
                Quote: Santa Fe
                Zircon is not a glider, as indicated by the shallow trajectory when it is launched

                In the last videos, he seems to go almost vertically upward (as far as can be judged, the quality there is a hundred jackals).
                1. Santa Fe
                  13 December 2021 10: 19
                  +4
                  The glider talk initially puts an end to the history of the hypersonic missile

                  A discussion of ballistics and planning begins, with a loss of speed as it approaches the target, a loss of stealth and a limited launch range (starting mass and dimensions based on the requirements of the UKSK with a mass of the thrown load of 300 kg + RLGSN, the well-known examples of the Iskader OTRK give an estimate of about 500 km, without any planning regime in the dense layers of the atmosphere). RCC with such parameters will be of no interest to anyone
                  1. Kalmar
                    Kalmar 13 December 2021 10: 26
                    +3
                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    with a loss of speed as you approach the target

                    That makes it possible for the RLGSN to work normally without problems with plasma and all that.

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    with a weight of the thrown load of 300 kg

                    Conceptually, warheads can be smaller. Based on the calculation "it is better to put in 100 kg than not to plant 300."

                    Quote: Santa Fe
                    RCC with such parameters will be of no interest to anyone

                    Well, at least, the political agenda will work out: after all, the first anti-ship missile defense system is in service)) And all sorts of boring nuances and restrictions are another story, into which a typical man in the street will not dive)
                    1. Santa Fe
                      13 December 2021 10: 47
                      +1
                      That makes it possible for the RLGSN to work normally without problems with plasma and all that.

                      Everything is already there, without any gliders, loss of stealth, and ballistic missiles weighing several tons

                      With a longer flight range. With a normal warhead. And working means of guidance. Example - Onyx
                      Well, at least, the political agenda will work out: after all, the first anti-ship missile defense system is in service

                      I agree with you
          2. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2021 09: 48
            +5
            All of your reasoning is based on assumptions. The same range of 1000 km from the ceiling (more precisely from propaganda speech) was taken while there is information about tests at a distance of 450 ~ 550 km.
            This range is being developed by the current SM-6, in which they plan to supply a booster from the SM-3 and accelerate to hypersonic speeds and a distance of ~ 1000 km. Doesn't it look like anything?
            Therefore, they are waiting for real photos of zircon. So far, all that is being said is achieved by the technologies of the 70s.
            1. Santa Fe
              13 December 2021 10: 07
              +2
              The same range of 1000 km from the ceiling (more precisely from propaganda speech) was taken while they talk about tests at a distance of 450 ~ 550 km.

              You need to look not at the range, but at the payload

              Air-jet engines have ten times higher specific impulse, so the difference in flight range does not correlate so sharply with the size of the aircraft, in contrast to rocket technology.
              This range is being developed by the current SM-6, in which they plan to supply a booster from the SM-3 and accelerate to hypersonic speeds and a distance of ~ 1000 km.

              The weight of the thrown load (warhead) is 64 kg.
              With such a load, the range of 1000 km, with a launch mass of a couple of tons, fully corresponds to the capabilities of rocket technology.

              In the case of the SM-6 with the SM-3 booster, the most useless anti-ship missile in the world will turn out
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar 13 December 2021 10: 29
                +1
                Quote: Santa Fe
                In the case of the SM-6 with the SM-3 booster, the most useless anti-ship missile in the world will turn out

                The discussion has come to the point when it is necessary to remember the old days of "Sheffield"))
                In the sense that 64 kg is, of course, not a sentence to the ship, but it will ruin the skin (especially if a couple of missiles fly through). Moreover, very few people are building large ships capable of surviving the impact of even a heavy anti-ship missile.
                Well, a wounded animal after SM-6 will be easier to finish off with more traditional weapons.
                1. Santa Fe
                  13 December 2021 10: 53
                  +2
                  The discussion has come to the point when it is necessary to remember the old days of "Sheffield"))

                  Sheffield set fire to Exocet's solid fuel engine. Which worked all the way to the target. And when a rocket with such a torch got stuck in the hull, it was worse than the warhead.

                  A ballistic missile has nothing like this, the accelerator burns out at the start, the warhead flies by inertia
                  Moreover, very few people are building large ships capable of surviving even a heavy anti-ship missile strike.

                  And the probability of hitting the target?
                  Such an anti-ship missile will be noticed in a few minutes, all electronic warfare means are activated and all dipoles and traps will be shot. RLGSN Standard-6 does not differ in outstanding parameters, taken from the aviation AIM-120

                  We argued about this earlier.
                2. Bormanxnumx
                  Bormanxnumx 13 December 2021 13: 50
                  +2
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  The discussion has come to the point when it is necessary to remember the old days of "Sheffield"))

                  Let's better then remember the "old" Glamorgan, which did not lose its combat effectiveness after the explosion of Exoset, a fire in a helicopter hangar and the subsequent explosion of a helicopter there.
                  1. Kalmar
                    Kalmar 13 December 2021 13: 56
                    +1
                    Well, I don’t argue, there is a lot that influences the outcome. Therefore, it is advisable to stick more than one anti-ship missile into the ship, especially a light one. The Argentines of those "exosets" had several in stock, the Americans would still have more SM-6s.
                  2. Boa kaa
                    Boa kaa 13 December 2021 21: 44
                    0
                    At the same time, the Exocet got casually, into the superstructure, without creating a real threat to the survivability of the ship. The fire was extinguished - the crew was spent.
                3. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa 13 December 2021 21: 40
                  +2
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  Moreover, very few people are building large ships capable of surviving even a heavy anti-ship missile strike.

                  Colleague, let me give you THIS:
                  On May 17, 1987, an Iraqi Mirage fighter fired 2 Exocet missiles at the American frigate Stark. Both missiles hit the side of the frigate, but only one exploded. Nevertheless, the frigate was heavily damaged. American experts noted that if it were in the stormy Atlantic, and not in the calm in the Persian Gulf, the frigate would inevitably have sunk.
                  At the same time, Exocet's warhead weighs 150 kg, and Onyx's - 300 kg, but with a coefficient = 1,6 TOTAL = 480 kg TNT! Therefore, it is extremely problematic ... it will be the NK class "corvette-frigate-EM 5000t" to digest such a "pi ... lyulya".
                  AHA.
                  1. 3danimal
                    3danimal 15 December 2021 01: 52
                    +1
                    Future Laser CIWS Should Help request
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 13 December 2021 15: 23
                0
                The payload there is most likely the same as that of the "Onyx", but the fuel is much more "high-calorie" and its chemical composition is the same state secret.
            2. 3danimal
              3danimal 15 December 2021 01: 48
              0
              I once suggested a similar option in the comments of one of the articles on a similar topic. good
              (A kind of reduced version of Iskander for launching from UKSK)
          3. lucul
            lucul 13 December 2021 11: 18
            -11
            The starting BOOSTER was discussed

            Well, how long does the starting booster work there? 5 second? Do you need a lot of fuel for this? Further, the transition to a ramjet engine and a rocket can no longer be seen.
          4. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 13 December 2021 21: 12
            +3
            Quote: Santa Fe
            we are not talking about anti-ship ballistic missiles,

            3M22 has a first stage rocket engine, which throws it at 5-8 km, and accelerates up to 3-4M, and then it seems to me that one cannot do without a detonation-type scramjet engine. Oxidant from the air, fuel - the question ... perhaps decilin. Perhaps even liquefied hydrogen. It also cools the edges of the structure ... At this height (35-38 km) the cold is doggy, so the composite / ceramics holds ... Perhaps some kind of electromagnetic "shirt" thread also holds the plasma so that the body does not melt .. ...
            The RG wrote that in 2018 the Ifrit project (from NPO Energomash with the support of the Advanced Research Fund) gave a prototype of such an engine. Again, the A.M. For 30 years this topic has been raped on cradles ... Surely something has already worked out.
            Anything else simply does not come to mind. request
          5. dr.mel51
            dr.mel51 14 December 2021 11: 19
            0
            author -> author -> author Thomas is a non-believer, the Saxons have already turned our Armed Forces, and the principle of modernity, you find out there is nothing ahead of the Batki to run into the scorching heat, the time will come, you will know everything in good time, or he is a spy so angrily asks to reveal the principle to him. This is not a magazine I want to know everything, but a specially protected state secret.
        2. lucul
          lucul 13 December 2021 11: 44
          -7
          "Here is a real launch vehicle that can fit into a UKSK 3S14 with minor modifications."



          Pffff ....
          We look - for the combustion of 1 m³ of gas, 10 m³ of air is required, for the combustion of 1 kg of liquid fuel, 14 kg of air are required. And conventional rockets, this unnecessary ballast, in the form of oxygen (oxidizer) are carried on board. And a rocket with a ramjet engine takes oxygen from the air, and this immediately makes a hypersonic rocket 80% lighter than a conventional one, because there is no need to carry ballast on board, in the form of oxygen.
          In addition, the author did not mention the basic principle of hypersound - the possibility of burning fuel in supersonic air flow in the combustion chamber. Prior to that, in a conventional combustion chamber of an engine, fuel is burned only at SUBSONIC air flow velocities.
          This hypersonic breakthrough (supersonic combustion) is akin to the transition from propeller driven engines to jet engines in aviation)))
          1. Svetlana
            Svetlana 13 December 2021 13: 24
            +2
            Quote: lucul
            - the possibility of fuel combustion in a supersonic air flow in the combustion chamber.

            what prevents the fuel from burning in the air?
            the absence of free radicals, which are the centers of initiation of a branched controlled chain reaction of combustion.
            how can you create free responses in the combustion zone?
            - microwave radiation with a frequency of the order of the critical plasma frequency.
            - Hall electric current flowing through the magnetized plasma in the combustion zone.
            - ionizing radiation of nuclear reactions
            All possibilities are realized
    2. Serg Kam
      Serg Kam 13 December 2021 06: 53
      +4
      The speed of rockets for spacewalk is 40000 thousand kilometers per hour


      Rocket "Soyuz"
      Length - 49,012m
      Diameter - 10,303m
      Fuel weight -
      273,900 tons.
      Everything in order to bring 7 tons to an altitude of about 220 km
    3. Babay Atasovich
      Babay Atasovich 13 December 2021 06: 55
      +4
      Quote: Pessimist22
      The speed of rockets for going into space is 40000 thousand kilometers per hour or Mach 33, maybe they don't fly into space, maybe the earth is flat.

      And I was told by local racket men that in just 5 swings you can get a Nobel Prize! And then "To communicate to the apparatus with a mass of 1 kg at a speed of 400 M, 7 tons of rocket fuel were consumed. Acceleration to a speed of 15 M required the Pegasus to apply full efforts. In this version, the mass of the rocket was 9 tons."! wassat
  3. Tagan
    Tagan 13 December 2021 06: 26
    +11
    The fact that an expert is trying to dig something from afar on his own, and then draw conclusions from all this and by virtue of his own knowledge is never an argument. He did not go far from the fortune-teller grandmother.
  4. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 13 December 2021 07: 13
    +4
    They began to retouch the footage, in which the operation of the attitude control engines at the head of the rocket was noticeable, followed by the shooting off of the engine air intake cover.
    All too obvious signs inherent in only one, the only existing anti-ship missile with such a feature. RCC "Onyx".
    What does this prove? Just that the Zircon was also lowered the turn height in order to conceal the launch, or, in the author's opinion, does this contradict the laws of physics?
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 13 December 2021 08: 48
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      "Zircon" lowered the height of the turn in order to conceal the launch

      And this means, after all, that the launch stage must accelerate the rocket to near-GZ speeds at relatively low altitudes in the dense layers of the atmosphere. And her health is enough?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 13 December 2021 08: 57
        +3
        Quote: Kalmar
        And this means, after all, that the launch stage must accelerate the rocket to near-GZ speeds at relatively low altitudes in the dense layers of the atmosphere. And her health is enough?

        The variable flight profile was not invented yesterday. Like this "low-high altitude, dive".
        And about the author's doubts such as this:
        "Caliber", the unique missile "Onyx" or the aircraft anti-ship missile system Kh-2016, which was put into service in 32, do not show a sensational gap in performance.
        So the matter is also in the cost of the rocket, maybe the prohibitive cost.
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 13 December 2021 09: 00
          +5
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          The variable flight profile was not invented yesterday

          Yes, but at the starting stage the operating time is 10-15 seconds, while you also need to have time to develop a huge speed. Where is there a reserve for maneuvers?
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 13 December 2021 09: 08
            +2
            Quote: Kalmar
            Yes, but at the starting stage the operating time is 10-15 seconds, while you also need to have time to develop a huge speed. Where is there a reserve for maneuvers?

            I'm afraid you misunderstood the author's idea.
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            They began to retouch the frames in which the operation of the attitude control engines in the rocket head part is noticeable, followed by the shooting of the engine air intake cover
            We are talking about shooting the head of the rocket, and there we are talking about a couple of seconds maximum.
            1. Kalmar
              Kalmar 13 December 2021 09: 19
              +3
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              We are talking about shooting the head of the rocket, and there we are talking about a couple of seconds maximum

              This point is understandable. There were some comments at one time that this head is typical for missiles with a head air intake (like the Onyx) and does not make sense on the Zircon, whose air intake is presumably displaced to the middle of the product.
              You just mentioned a decrease in the turn height, which was especially clearly visible in the early videos with launches (the rocket accelerated almost horizontally), so I ask: will the launch stage overpower acceleration at such an altitude?
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 13 December 2021 09: 23
                +6
                Quote: Kalmar
                There were some comments at the time that this head is typical for missiles with a head air intake (like Onyx) and does not make sense on Zircon
                Perhaps it does not, but to reset the used reversal engines still as it does, and they are at the head.

                Quote: Kalmar
                So I ask: will the starting stage be capable of overclocking at such an altitude?
                Here you can only guess, as the author. If the scramjet has the capabilities of a ramjet, then it is quite, as it seems to me.
        2. svoroponov
          svoroponov 15 January 2022 13: 03
          0
          Who watched how Nudol accelerates at the start?
          So there are no problems with the initial acceleration for acceleration to a given speed to turn on the ramjet, and the mass of the accelerator and its dimensions can be less due to the fact that Nudol is thrown to a great height, but Zircon does not need this. Thermal protection for very high temperatures has been worked out for a long time, even on Buran in the USSR, I saw an element from the bow of Buran. It’s not even very thick. And now, after all, technology does not stand still, especially since back in the USSR, the school of metal science and materials science for various applications occupied a leading place in the world. And the speed of 9M is quite achievable for such devices. It all depends on what altitude the main flight to the target is carried out. Most likely it goes at such a height in hypersound, at which plasma begins to form on the surface of the device, which makes a rocket
          at long distances not visible to the radar. Even when approaching and maneuvering it near the ship, if it has become visible in the optical range, the actions will give practically nothing due to the lack of time for aiming and working out its capture.
  5. mark1
    mark1 13 December 2021 07: 45
    +3
    A hedgehog came out of the fog ... took a fig out of his pocket .. - I'll move the fig, you have nothing to cover that fig with ...
    Well, you have to live and see ...
  6. Skipper
    Skipper 13 December 2021 07: 54
    +5
    What are all the smart ones, take out and put it down ... that is, show it .. explain everything on the shelves and under a magnifying glass .. aha .. and in all angles and all the documentation .... maybe the keys to the laboratory where Zircon was conceived?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 13 December 2021 08: 03
      +2
      Well, for this, together with the keys, they will immediately be sent to the right place ... smile
      and so with total censorship and secrecy, it is not forbidden to spread market rumors ... alas, this is the price of closed topics. what
      Therefore, it is not serious to believe everything that the author writes without relying on the opinion of the authors of Zircon.
      1. Santa Fe
        13 December 2021 10: 36
        +11
        on the opinion of the authors of Zircon

        A little about the authors of Zircon

        This is what one of the high-ranking officials of the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation looks like. Olga, wedding makeup artist from Moscow, through whose company 20% of purchases of the state corporation of strategic importance are carried out

        Back in 2012, Boris O., the irreplaceable and still head of the Tactical Missile Armaments state corporation, issued an order that all purchases of the corporation and its member enterprises should be carried out through the so-called authorized organization. "Trading house" Zvezda-Strela "

        One of the owners is a mysterious individual. Why exactly she, who is the girl to Boris O., for what purpose is there a procurement scheme through a third-party organization, how the country's nuclear shield and the Strela trading house are connected - I think these questions are superfluous and you represent the answers yourself
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 13 December 2021 10: 51
          +9
          Quote: Santa Fe
          This is what one of the high-ranking officials of the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation looks like

          In the photo on the left or on the right?
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 13 December 2021 11: 12
            +5
            Go and call the dog Zircon.
        2. Crabong
          Crabong 13 December 2021 16: 01
          +1
          Something gets scary if it's true ...
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 13 December 2021 17: 07
            -5
            She does not create weapons.
            1. Crabong
              Crabong 14 December 2021 02: 50
              +2
              Doesn't create. But in the subject of cutting budget money. Including yours ...
  7. Eug
    Eug 13 December 2021 08: 24
    +4
    I am confused by something else - if the rocket reaches 9M and is controlled at the same time, then how exactly and what LATERAL G-forces occur in this case.
    1. svoroponov
      svoroponov 13 December 2021 18: 19
      +2
      If it carries out not large chaotic yaw on the trajectory, it is already enough. Alternatively, imagine a pipe, inside which a ball moves along its perimeter, the movement is similar to a spiral of an unevenly stretched spring. Direct defeat is not calculated by any computer and aiming with the homing head is very problematic. At the same time, the device does not experience very strong overloads.
  8. kig
    kig 13 December 2021 08: 41
    +4
    I don’t understand why the author didn’t like the movie? request
  9. 1976AG
    1976AG 13 December 2021 08: 51
    -3
    "It is urgent to inform the management of LII that they are stuck in the past. Now the trend is the speed of Mach 9."

    Another hack who considers himself smarter than others.
  10. A009
    A009 13 December 2021 10: 28
    +13
    Strange arguments and strange questions (in terms of the fact that even a child can give answers to many of them)
    Let's go in order:
    1. "Supporters of" Zircon "have never been embarrassed by the simultaneous presence of Onyx anti-ship missiles and 9-stroke anti-ship missiles in service." -Does not bother. Because Zircon IS STILL NOT ACCEPTED !. When they accept it will be possible to remove the "axes". Or maybe they won't. Because zircon is more likely to be significantly more expensive. And not all cells will be occupied by it. For simple purposes, they will leave onyx. Is that possible?
    2. "This has never been seen in history. To have muzzle-loading caronads and rapid-fire miniguns next to it on the deck." Iowa - no? Battleship (classic), with tomahawks.
    3. "... found application only in one single project" - maybe because they are still working out? How will they work somewhere else. On the VAZ largus, for example. In the meantime, they are working on only one. Or does it work differently? enlighten.
    4. "Caliber, the unique Onyx missile or the Kh-2016 aviation anti-ship missile system, which was put into service in 32, does not show a sensational performance gap." and from this it is necessary to conclude that zircon is impossible? or what? what does this reflection lead to? I don't see a logical connection with zircon and its possibility (impossibility).
    5. "And finally, how are the statements about the imminent adoption of a 9-fly rocket combined with the news from the MM Gromov Flight Research Institute" Are you serious damn ??? that is, other possible layouts and solutions are not worth exploring? maybe zircon technology is applicable for limited mass, for large ships something else is needed? (I do not know this, these are assumptions)
    Perhaps some other differences, you do not know, I do not know. But you make an unambiguous conclusion and criticize. What for? Can we wait for more information?
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 13 December 2021 22: 10
      +2
      Quote: A009
      Can we wait for more information?

      1. I completely agree with your conclusions.
      2. But at the expense of information - so in the media only propaganda stucco will be. The truth can be learned (in great secret from friends tested in battles and campaigns) only from personal communication with people involved in the process. My colleagues are already retired, and the new generation is unlikely to talk about this with a veteran of the "Brownian movement" bully
      Imported sources are often also far from the truth ... What remains is common sense and the forum. yes
  11. datura23
    datura23 13 December 2021 10: 51
    0
    "This conclusion follows from the test results of the X-43A. All the details about the project were made public." It remains to believe those who are not able to live a day without deception.
  12. Crabong
    Crabong 13 December 2021 11: 15
    -2
    It's all muddy somehow ... At least the layout should not be shown, why is it impossible?
    1. Santa Fe
      13 December 2021 11: 23
      +10
      Why not show at least the layout?

      Like Mark Twain - it is better to be silent and look bad than to speak up and dispel all doubts
  13. Siegfried
    Siegfried 13 December 2021 11: 21
    +2
    maybe the Onyxes were left, tk. Zircon's GOS problems do not give the guaranteed accuracy that one would like to have. Have zircon been started up 8-10 times already? Enemies watched the flight on their radars, observed the flight speed. It is unlikely that Russia would launch Zircons on a monthly basis to demonstrate a rocket speed of 3 - 5 M over and over again? Such frequent launches are probably made (especially recently), so that they would have time to notice and evaluate everything. It can be assumed that the speed of Zircon is less than 9 M or that there are some problems with something, but that Zircon is a bluff to imagine. This would show the enemies the weakness of Russia, which it demonstrates with each launch.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 13 December 2021 15: 29
      0
      If the Onyxes are already 20 years in a row and they have been mass-produced all these 20 years for the fleet - the Zircon hypersonic rocket is just completing tests - when this rocket goes into production, then they will start changing Onyxes to Zircons.
  14. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 13 December 2021 11: 36
    +8
    Yo-mine! How many categorical statements!
    The Zircon supporters were never embarrassed by the simultaneous presence of the Onyx anti-ship missile system and 9-swing anti-ship missiles in service. Indeed, in the presence of hypersound, the former turn into “stone axes”. The exploitation of all available anti-ship missiles will become meaningless when weapons appear that can strike aircraft carriers and enemy fleets 3-5 times faster.
    And where does "Zircons" have to do with it? Well, there are supersonic anti-ship missiles "Onyx" and subsonic anti-ship missiles X-35 in service ... and no one really rattles their brains - "why?" ... ("Onyxes" are fast, but expensive ... X-35 is slower, but cheaper! X-35 "requires" less "scarce" materials and cheaper quantity ... Transport with fuels and lubricants and ammunition is not "obligatory" to sink the supersonic, more "scarce" "Onyx" ...) Even the rich and high-tech power of the United States is in service and is developing subsonic anti-ship missiles! It is advisable to use supersonic anti-ship missiles at higher altitudes ... they are more noticeable ... About the same you can talk about the "Zircon"!

    History has never seen anything like it. So that muzzle-loading caronads and rapid-firing miniguns would stand nearby on the deck.
    And this is a chatter! Caronads are not caronads, but muzzle-loading rifled guns were put on ships in the 70s of the 19th century ... at that time, "rapid-fire miniguns" - Gatlings and Gardners, revolving guns of Hotchkiss, Nardfeld ... Gatling (or Hotchkiss ...) on the same deck is not "bad manners" at all!
  15. Santa Fe
    13 December 2021 11: 55
    +4
    Of greatest interest, in my opinion, is a comparison of well-known rocketry models with statements about Zircon (launching a 9-fly rocket with a scramjet engine for flight under atmospheric conditions, from spacecraft limited in size). This is where the scope for hilarious comparisons showing how far these claims are from reality!

    The audience is more like the lyrical part about caronads and miniguns)

    Well, well, the author's duty is to answer

    Caronads and miniguns were just a colorful comparison. Readers have already cited the example of Iowa with Tomahawks, etc. as refuting this author's thesis

    Iowa's cannons and missiles served different purposes. Before the appearance of long-range naval missile systems, the only way to reach targets on the coast was artillery. Therefore, 406 quietly coexisted with anti-ship Harpoons and Tomahawks. With the advent of conventional Tomahawks in the market (early 90s), big guns are a thing of the past. At least in the form in which they are of no great value in Iowa now.

    The proximity of muzzle-loading guns and multi-barreled Gatlings on ships at the end of the 6000th century was also not a violation of the time continuum. After all, not every multi-barreled Gatling is a modern minigun with a rate of fire of XNUMX rds per minute, like six-barreled air cannons and machine guns

    If we develop the idea that the author wanted to convey, then Onyx, like Zircon, is the main caliber of the fleet. And the very presence of Onyx and Zircons is a double main caliber. shells of the first fly 5 times slower. and here contradictions arise

    The proximity of subsonic X-35 and supersonic Onyx does not raise questions, these are different calibers) for different tasks and conditions
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 13 December 2021 14: 24
      +4
      Quote: Santa Fe
      the very presence of Onyxes and Zircons is a double main caliber. shells of the first fly 5 times slower. and here contradictions arise

      This contradiction can be resolved quite simply - the price is the same.
      "Zircon" will definitely not be a cheap product, and its development by the industry can be delayed seriously and for a long time. As a result, even if this missile already meets all the declared characteristics, it will take a long time for the fleet to receive it in sufficient quantities. Until that moment, Onyx remains in use.
      Another option is some kind of restrictions that are not currently mentioned. For example, the GOS, due to difficult operating conditions (plasma formation, etc.), has a very limited view (in comparison with the "Onyx"), requiring a very accurate control system. Which our intelligence can not always provide, and then "Onyxes" are used.
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal 15 December 2021 02: 07
        0
        There have already been articles about the fact that there is now nothing to provide an ultra-precise control center for the RF Armed Forces in the ocean.
        There is still no A-100.
        Liana, on the other hand, with 4 RTR satellites (of which only one can issue a control center) can help a little only in one narrow section (which is calculated in advance).
        A realistic MO proposal on this topic (for now) is to use old turboprop IL reconnaissance aircraft.
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 15 December 2021 09: 42
          +1
          Quote: 3danimal
          There have already been articles about the fact that there is now nothing to provide an ultra-precise control center for the RF Armed Forces in the ocean.

          Yes, there are a lot of difficulties here, that's why I say that this moment can become a serious limitation. Those. a purely technically required command center can be obtained: say, the enemy stumbled upon our patrol ship or got into the field of view of the "Pion" or something else. But this will not always work out, so you need a spare weapon, less whimsical to the conditions of use.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 13 December 2021 22: 30
      +3
      Quote: Santa Fe
      Onyx, like Zircon, is the main caliber of the fleet. And the very presence of Onyx and Zircons is a double main caliber. shells of the first fly 5 times slower. and here contradictions arise

      There is no contradiction.
      It all depends on the target, its air defense / missile defense, the conditions of the REP and other crap ...
      Form a volley with the combined use of 3M22 and 3M55 in the combination you need, depending on the conditions listed above for completing the task. In this case, the initial strike of Zircon and the simultaneous approach to the Onyx target from different heights and directions will be ideal. (So ​​that all the needles stick out from the hedgehog!) A hit by a 3M22 will disorganize the target's air defense, and a 3M55 will surely destroy it.
      Something like that, it seems to me. AHA.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. rica1952
    rica1952 13 December 2021 15: 01
    +2
    Still, it turns out that the scramjet has not been created. And the Zircon is a compilation of the modernized Onyx, the first stage is the end combustion engine (powder bills) as in the A135 complex, the rocket speed is about 12M The second stage is apparently reduced and modified Onyx with a ramjet. This design can raise the speed and above 9M But the massive dimensions do not allow to fly further than 500 km. The temperature regime destroys the structure. Miracles in rocketry do not happen according to the laws of physics. Therefore, the appearance of the rocket and its launches are secret.
    1. Castro Ruiz
      Castro Ruiz 13 December 2021 16: 49
      +1
      I think V is very close to the truth.
      But 450-500 km will not be enough for a safe strike on the AUG. There is enough for KUG.
      There remains also the question of the control center / the accuracy of hitting the moving target, the product should beat the anti-ship.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 13 December 2021 17: 10
      -4
      All the necessary heat-resistant materials have long been created - and the rocket is a disposable product.
  18. Shahno
    Shahno 13 December 2021 15: 17
    -2
    Quote: Spring Fluff
    you noticed the situation well. Many may not pay attention, but successes are announced in precisely those areas that cannot be verified - electronic warfare, air defense, zircon, avant-garde, .... I will not even talk about the Poseidon / Petrel, while all tested weapons are stalled - shipbuilding, armata, aircraft construction including su-57, il-112.

    Some have already been checked ... After which the "neimanal" moved into the real world - "Shell" .. for example .. the Bureau, which cannot make a high-quality turbojet engine (D), is unlikely to create a scramjet engine.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 13 December 2021 17: 15
      -2
      And "Pantsir" works and continues to work, shooting down missile drones in the Middle East quite successfully. And what bureau there could not make a high-quality turbojet engine, and did NPO Mashinostroyenia do it with turbojet engines?
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal 15 December 2021 02: 14
        0
        The shell does not work for long until it becomes a priority target for drones.
        His cannons are generally useless against them (which has been repeatedly shown in seemingly laudatory TV programs).

  19. Newone
    Newone 13 December 2021 16: 12
    +7
    What a great "YOU VS VREEEETIIII" from the author of the article :)
  20. ja-ja-vw
    ja-ja-vw 13 December 2021 17: 47
    +4
    Quote: Author
    To accelerate to a speed of "only" 6,5 M, it took the world's largest anti-aircraft missile

    1) 5В28 is not the largest in the world
    length 11 m and launch weight 7,1 tons, of which 3 tons are boosters
    MIM-14- longer / but lighter
    BOMARC IM-99B: 7272kg / 13741,4mm
    IM-99A: 7085 kg / 14274,8mm
    2) the maximum speed (the tanks are almost empty) 5V28 missiles has Vmax = 3500 km / h (when the tanks are empty) = 972 m / s = 2, M
    KBHM
    The engine was turned on at a flight speed of 77M, at the end of the flight for 6,47 s. speed reached XNUMX M, fuel consumption 0,18 kg / s, thrust> 3kN, specific thrust IMPULSE = 2000 kgf * sec / kg

    from 2,9M to 6,47M did his holy spirit disperse? or dive?
    fool
    under contract with NASA in the last test carried out in 1998, the speed was reached flight M = 6.5, the operation time of the scramjet was 77 s.
    3)
    Quote: Author
    Of course, in that avalanche of fire created by a liquid-propellant rocket engine with a thrust of 10 tons, it was not easy to determine a mere percentage of additional thrust.

    yokarny babay!
    - "avalanche" of fire in the tail section, thrust (light) of the 58L scramjet engine in the bow section, then see clause 2.
    - the increase in thrust is determined not by fire (avalanches), but by acceleration sensors along the longitudinal axis and speed sensors
    Quote: Author
    However, it remained a hypersonic glider. The fuel supply on board was 1 kg of hydrogen,

    belay
    we look at the conditions of the flight experiment x-43

    Pegasus separated at 30000 m. Some delay was recorded when the GLA reached the angle of attack corresponding to the launch of the scramjet engine ... in flight, the possibility of effective operation of the scramjet engine running on hydrogen fuel at M = 9.86 at an altitude of about 32 220 m was recorded. angle of attack corresponding to the launch of the scramjet. The thrust was 2% higher than expected. Hydrogen mass 1.36 kg stored on board in two containers with a volume of 0.015 m3 ... ... 22 seconds after separation (from Pegasus !!!), the engine ended, the air intake was blocked. A strong roll of the GLA began to roll and oscillations in pitch, while the pressure in the CS channel exceeded the nominally permissible values, which means an unintended flow of air into the channel when the air intake is closed.

    but they didn't manage to plan in the "planned" (tautology) 15 minutes interval.
    Quote: Author
    Of course, this situation will last for a few milliseconds, then detonation will occur with the destruction of the combustion chamber.
    These are the common problems when creating a scramjet engine.
    The solution is to achieve the highest possible airflow rate in the engine (supersonic combustion), which will allow not only to keep the combustion chamber intact,

    the pen of a specialist journalist is felt.
    1. Of course, there will be no detonation, even in such a mythical situation.
    the energy of the air entering the engine exceeds the energy of the air-fuel mixture leaving the combustion chamber.
    .All "incoming air energy" is converted into heat (compression, braking, heat) and what?
    The presence of an insulator in the scramjet duct to prevent malfunctions of the air intake during hydrogen combustion may be due to the non-optimal organization of gas mixing and heat exchange. The combustion process is localized; experts explain this by the deceleration of the flow in the oblique shock waves at the entrance to the combustion chamber and the subsonic rather than supersonic combustion mode

    2. Supersonic combustion is detonation - USE, since you detonate due to energy imbalance
    Quote: Author
    Therefore, any air-jet engine is many times superior in specific thrust liquid and solid propellant rocket engines.

    you feel a close acquaintance with the internal combustion engine
    - does not oxidize the air, but only the oxygen in the air
    - for taxiways, the term specific IMPULSE is used (m / s and seconds, a hint of thrust (force): N. kgs is not present here)
    Specific thrust - the ratio of thrust to any parameter of the engine or propeller

    what parameter to refer to? to the mass? to volume? to the expense? to the diameter?
    Specific thrust = ratio of engine thrust to mass flow fuel, measured in m / s.
    FUEL! Not flammable. Add hundreds of cubic meters of "air" of the turbojet engine to the mass of fuel (and working fluid, of course) and you will be happy / unhappy. Specific thrust-will immediately drop, compared to RD
    Quote: Author
    In all known experiments, scramjet models were used that worked in an incoming air flow, which practically did not create thrust. The devices reached their hypersonic parameters only with the help of rocket boosters of a very robust size.

    it is like a mantra being repeated. Well, familiarize yourself with the results of the experiments, separate the flies (output to a height of 20K-30K m and reaching a speed of 3,4-5 M) from the cutlets (turning on gpvrd and ACCELERATION to 5-7 m)
    Shl.
    I am not a zircon fan, the conclusion about Onyx is correct. Miracles do not happen out of the blue. It seems to me that someone is leading someone by the nose.
    If only they did not implement some thread of the GRPD (KBKHA worked hard)
    and the photo in the article is old
    hi
    1. military_cat
      military_cat 13 December 2021 18: 04
      0
      Quote: ja-ja-vw
      from 2,9M to 6,47M did his holy spirit disperse? or dive?

      When the booster flew in 1997 with a 6.2M mass-size mock-up, who overclocked it? Yes, he dispersed himself. It was not just an S-200 rocket, but a globally redesigned one, and in that flight without a scramjet in 1997, the ability, after all modifications, to reach 6.5M with GLL in the final test was tested. Which is corrected for ambient temperature (thermodynamics) and has been successfully confirmed.
      1. ja-ja-vw
        ja-ja-vw 13 December 2021 18: 38
        +3
        Quote: military_cat
        When the booster flew in 1997 with a 6.2M mass-size mock-up, who overclocked it?

        I don’t know what accelerator I flew in 1997, I don’t know who accelerated it. I know ONE: in 5V28 (V-880) with a 5D67 LPRE from the king of peas with an open circuit, how can you not reach 6,2 M with such burdocks as in the V-880
        He (zhrd) is certainly better than 5D12, and the speed is not 2500 km / h.
        But everything that a thrust of 13000 kgf (+ a bit) and an AI at the level of 300-320 seconds can do
        Quote: military_cat
        but globally redesigned,

        yep

        they reduced the midsection, the cocoon was made of composites, the wings were cut by 2 times along the outreach, and the thickness was also reduced, the BIP was thrown out, it was replaced with a compact nuclear reactor, and having inserted the pipe after the GTA into the compressor station, we got a closed-cycle liquid propellant engine. And it didn't cost anything.
        I wonder why the S-200Y was not adopted with the super SAM B-880XXX, capable of shmalya for 500 km and intercepting satellites?
        1. military_cat
          military_cat 13 December 2021 18: 57
          0
          Quote: ja-ja-vw
          I don’t know what accelerator I flew in 1997, I don’t know who accelerated it. I know ONE
          I know that the 5V28 (V-880) 5D67 LPRE from the king of peas with an open circuit will not reach 6,2 M with such burdocks as in the V-880

          Well, I know which accelerator flew in 1997, and I say what I read in a joint publication of CIAM and NASA. Opinion, of course, is very interesting, but knowledge, nevertheless, is a more substantiated thing.
          1. ja-ja-vw
            ja-ja-vw 13 December 2021 20: 09
            -1
            You read something wrong.
            just turn on the brain:
            -What is it that will motivate the zur developing in MAXIMUM <3M in 1997 to give 6,2M?
            / well, if the priests are sprinkled with sv, then yes everything can be /
            -ttrd, liquid, fuel components are the same
            - the mass has become more
            ?
            "Substantially shaken up"?
            Yeah:
            -given the possibility of launching without capturing the target
            - changed the shooting angle from 48 ° to the one in the photo (it's faster to get to the upper layers)
            - re-gutted the btsvm by imitating the signal from the seeker and changed the firing mode with target acquisition in flight
            -beep- we gave more havchik
            - disabled the self-liquidator.
            Even not beggars 1992-1997 would not have done more.
            And even more so in the era of Mavrodi.
            You, simply, if somewhere "read": show, and we will analyze.
            And so: physics, maiematics are unshakable, very sobering sciences, very conducive to understanding the principles of our country
            1. military_cat
              military_cat 13 December 2021 20: 35
              0
              You ask a little boorishly, but so be it, as an exception:

              https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19980137604/downloads/19980137604.pdf
              1. ja-ja-vw
                ja-ja-vw 13 December 2021 22: 20
                0
                Quote: military_cat
                You ask a little boorishly,

                probably "ask"?
                - I'm sorry.
                -persuaded / unconvinced
                These modifications included several mitigation measures mass and drag on board HFL and missiles, incl.
                -reduction of the size of control surfaces by 75% (Fig. 9)
                - changes in the control system;
                - an increase in the mass of liquid fuel on board the missile defense system by 164 kg;
                -replacement of the onboard power supply.
                In general, the decrease in the mass of missiles was about 124 kg at about 6% decrease in frontal resistance.
                The launch angle has also been increased from the original 48 ° to 52 °.
                The increase in fuel volume by 164 kg was achieved by eliminating the damper of the usually required tank volume and increasing fuel density at low ambient temperatures... These measures required that the launch be carried out within 48 hours after refueling the SA5 rocket. An ambient start-up temperature condition of -5 ° C ± 5 ° C was required. It was also required to extend the operation of the main rocket engine by 3 seconds and increase the total thrust impulse by about 3 percent.

                Just like I prescribed everything. Didn't expect the aerodynamic surfaces to saw and freeze the fuel components. There were people with us then: on the knee - candy, for mere American pennies.
                I couldn't squeeze so much out of my old lady B-880. I did not use overcooling.
                My opinion: the error is here
                It will not reach 6,2m with a 6% increase in ID and 168 additional kg of fuel, and 3 seconds of additional operation of the liquid-propellant engine.
                It does not happen.
                Here either NASA messed up or confused.
                Option:
                -5D67 allows you to raise the pressure in the CS by 7% and in proportion to the thrust and ID.
                - climb along a very steep trajectory, change the pitch and at a negative angle with a volume of 1/3 tanks, use the force of gravity in the upper layers to accelerate in a "dive" ...
                recourse
                The trouble. does not reach 6,2M on our cow.
                I think the case (most likely) was like this:
                simulating size and mass of the scramjet engine
                most likely there was a model with a solid propellant engine (well, maybe a liquid, which one, you need to dig), which, with almost empty tanks (mass), on a dive, in the upper atmosphere, "dragged" the assembly speed to 6,2M.
                As the experiments with the French in November 1992 speak about, there, with a working liquid-propellant engine and a working GPZ engine, the Colds SIMULTANEOUSLY reached 5,5M. The engine was dual-mode.
                However, I do not insist. Better read this Kaptsov
                Quote: military_cat
                My compliments to the author, by the way, for the accuracy and attention to the wording.

                (.there are such pearls, he would not have passed the Unified State Exam 10 (11 or rather) class for sure)
                I want
                Quote: military_cat
                get to the bottom of the article to get smarter

                thanks for the tattoo, I will gut those who participated, if you are still alive
                Quote: military_cat
                but so be it, as an exception:

                1) don’t need handouts
                2. Be a man, don't be complex.
                3.If I nahami: there is a minus (there are many such offensive ones running after me), or the moderator Smirnov and a complaint about me
                hi
                1. military_cat
                  military_cat 13 December 2021 22: 36
                  -1
                  I have already expressed my attitude to the comparative value of the joint CIAM and NASA report against your opinion above (this also applies to the possibility of errors), I have nothing to add.
    2. svoroponov
      svoroponov 13 December 2021 18: 27
      +2
      The Americans are tracking all of our launches. And if the declared and received speeds were not true, the noise would be all over the world. They are silent, it means the truth.
      1. ja-ja-vw
        ja-ja-vw 13 December 2021 20: 11
        +2
        - how, what, when?
        -Why do they need noise? They giggle on the sly and do not pay attention.
        1. svoroponov
          svoroponov 14 December 2021 11: 51
          +3
          Don't giggle already. Feverishly trying to catch up.
          In general, there are many who believe in American weapons, and in vain. Remember, advertising is the engine of commerce.
          And yet, if the declared characteristics on paper are better than the actual ones of American weapons, then where are you going to complain? And who admits that he is a sucker or that he was financially twisted to buy this overseas junk or that he was not sickly topped up his account to make the right decision?
          Believe me, they often have a beautiful wrapper filled with shit. They will sell you this shit and there is no one to complain to.
          Let's say someone praised the convector plans. I saw them alive. With its propellers, it glows like a Christmas tree on the radar screens .. When flying at low altitude, the speed is not very high and the noise is not small - a gift
          for a shooter with MANPADS. For a war with a serious enemy, it is not applicable, or only with air cover. Well, or for special operations in the desert, where there is no one in the neighborhood for 100 km.
          The Russians do not embellish anything but declare real characteristics. Many were convinced of this when testing Russian weapons at potential buyers' ranges, where it is very difficult to hide something.
          This declared characteristics and speeds of Russian missiles can be trusted.
  21. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 13 December 2021 19: 16
    +2
    Too large a product comes out, too much effort is needed to accelerate it, it itself comes out very expensive (thermal protection, extremely robust design and ultra-reliable electronics). There are no doubts that it is possible to overclock in some spherical conditions to good M-numbers, there is doubt that the device will combine reliability and accuracy, taking into account all factors of combat use. Because it will be a pure gold bullet, which will have to work not in spherical-in-vacuum conditions, but in real combat conditions. And there they may already have their own problems - electronic warfare, factors of wave or kinetic effects on the hull from non-frontal directions (and from the frontline too). A good weapon is good when it is not capricious, effective and massive. While I have doubts that our hypersound (and indeed hypersound) meets these criteria.
    1. svoroponov
      svoroponov 14 December 2021 12: 16
      +1
      Once a jet engine was with a centrifugal compressor, then a more powerful one, with an axial one, appeared. Further, the number of compressor and turbine stages began to increase with a decrease in size. further technical thought created a ramjet engine. They began to improve it as in their time turbojets, to complicate it. Therefore, the devices began to fly faster at great speeds. But how ?
      We just do not have enough competence, that is, knowledge, and therefore doubts or disbelief in the achievements of such a technique.
  22. Tcheluskin
    Tcheluskin 13 December 2021 20: 15
    +1
    A rocket on solid or liquid propellants, capable of accelerating ... under no circumstances will fit in the cell of the ship firing complex (UKSK) 3S14.

    Yes, in the dimensions of UKSK 3S14 it seems hardly possible to make the 1st "cruise" stage carrying the oxidizer on board (a small starting solid-fuel accelerator does not count).

    So let's make the 1st stage with an engine in atmospheric air - based on the Onyx anti-ship missile system, with a smaller fuel supply.
    And the 2nd small "combat" stage with solid propellant rocket is based on the 2nd stage from the 3M54T anti-ship missile system.
    1st accelerates to> 3 M and altitudes> 20 km. 2nd - up to> 6 M and> 40 km; at the end it can fly by inertia or at low thrust.
    It is also possible to slightly reduce the mass of the equipment, increase the efficiency of fuel and engines, and a margin in height for the UKSK 3S14 on some ships.
    So we get an anti-ship missile with the stated dimensions and dimensions, without fantastic "secret technologies".

    This, of course, is my guess. As in reality - someday we will find out.
  23. KKND
    KKND 13 December 2021 20: 23
    -3
    There, "at the top" they perfectly understand the weakness of the Russian Federation in the event of a large-scale war with the NATO bloc. And the supposedly existing hypersonic weapons are nothing more than a "wunderwaffe" designed to calm their population (the partners understand everything perfectly) in the course of the current dangerous games with the West. An element of internal propaganda like the "flightless" F-35, S-400 firing at 400 km, etc. etc.
    If the bluff is revealed over time, nothing really terrible will happen, little depends on the townsfolk.
  24. swzero
    swzero 14 December 2021 01: 03
    +1
    ATOR misses the opportunity to accelerate the warhead to 9m due to the solid-propellant booster, as in the calibers. The cruising speed may not exceed 5-7m. The caliber is completely subsonic, but at the finish area the warhead accelerates to 2m.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 15 December 2021 02: 30
      +1
      The caliber is completely subsonic, but at the finish section the warhead accelerates to 2m.

      You are talking about a two-stage version of the Kalibr anti-ship missile system, the second stage with solid propellants, and the first with a conventional subsonic CR.
      By the way, I have never seen information about testing this version, it looks more like a prototype / concept.
      The carriers are armed only with subsonic missile launchers and anti-ship missiles "Caliber" (3M14 and 3M54E1 EMNIP)
      1. swzero
        swzero 17 December 2021 16: 25
        0
        It is not important, he just gave it as an option to achieve 9M.
      2. Tcheluskin
        Tcheluskin 17 December 2021 16: 27
        0
        On the contrary, we have exactly the 2-stage anti-ship missiles "Caliber" 3M54.
        A couple of TV reports about the launches of 2012 and 2019: on the frame-by-frame rewind with the ">", "<" keys, you can see the characteristic shape of the rocket:


        In the photo from the 2019 report also: http://ria.ru/20191117/1560990559.html

        Chinese clone YJ-18 also flies: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/missiles-yj-18-china


        Subsonic 3M54E1 are only exported for compatibility with short 6 m torpedo tubes of foreign standard.
  25. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 14 December 2021 14: 11
    +2
    Who will show you shots of real launches? Rejoice that Onyx is showing.
  26. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 14 December 2021 14: 14
    0
    Quote: KKND
    There, "at the top" they perfectly understand the weakness of the Russian Federation in the event of a large-scale war with the NATO bloc. And the supposedly existing hypersonic weapons are nothing more than a "wunderwaffe" designed to calm their population (the partners understand everything perfectly) in the course of the current dangerous games with the West. An element of internal propaganda like the "flightless" F-35, S-400 firing at 400 km, etc. etc.
    If the bluff is revealed over time, nothing really terrible will happen, little depends on the townsfolk.


    The word weakness must be enclosed in quotation marks. In the event of such a war, nuclear weapons will be used.
  27. ivpe211
    ivpe211 14 December 2021 15: 09
    0
    but this one will fit into the UKSK?
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Maximum diameter, m 0,970
    Length, m 7,516 / 7,315
    Rocket launch weight, kg 4630 / 4400
    The weight of the warhead, kg 715 / 375
    Firing Range, km 50-400
    Maximum trajectory height, km 120
    Firing accuracy (KVO), km 0,035
    Maximum speed 10M (at the final stage of the warhead flight)
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 15 December 2021 02: 33
      0
      but this one will fit into the UKSK?

      Have you been talking about Iskander for an hour?
      1. ivpe211
        ivpe211 15 December 2021 12: 28
        0
        this is an eye, in contrast to the Iskander, 10 swings are directly stated on it.
        it is one ton heavier than the Iskander, which means that it is possible to install a warhead with a hypersonic engine weighing about 2 tons. Then the range due to the operation of the scramjet engine and planning in the atmosphere can be increased to 800-1000 km. Indeed, it will be difficult to shoot down such a thing in the final section.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 15 December 2021 18: 41
          +2
          but this one will fit into the UKSK?

          I must say right away: it won't fit into the UKSK. The maximum possible dimensions should not exceed those of Onyx / Brahmos.
          Here in the launcher "Granit" - quite. But they will all be cut, replaced with UKSK.
          which means you can install a warhead with a hypersonic engine weighing about 2 tons

          Projects. 4,5 ton rocket going to install a 2 ton 2 stage?
          The second point: do not keep within this weight (let me remind you about 200-400 kg of the warhead itself and 50-60 kg of the GOS).
  28. failure
    failure 14 December 2021 16: 27
    0
    "The operation of all available anti-ship missiles will lose its meaning when it appears ..."

    Apart from the difference in price between some kind of x-35 and a hypothetical gpvrd missile.

    "IL-76 .... flying laboratory ... speed of Mach 9 is trending"

    Another would be to compare the work on aircraft and disposable missile systems.
  29. bk316
    bk316 14 December 2021 17: 46
    -2
    Oleg, that will go into the series and the information will leak.
    Believe me, it will leak.
    You write everything logically, but tell me what you will write if it turns out that it flies perfectly for 1000 km, reaching a speed of 9M?
    This is actually not about zircon but about you?
    Do you admit your mistakes, and most importantly, will you analyze them or not?
    I'll honestly say that the number of cases and deaths from coronavirus was predicted incorrectly.
    I'll even tell you why. Because my model, however, like everyone else at that time, calculated only the first wave.
    1. Sancho_SP
      Sancho_SP 15 December 2021 09: 49
      +2
      There are purely physical limitations associated with the launch mass and the mass of the warhead.

      The 9M is constantly at a distance of 1000 km in the dimensions of Onyx and with a payload of 400 kg - this, by sensations, is already beyond the bounds.
      1. bk316
        bk316 20 December 2021 14: 12
        -1
        9M constantly


        Feels like it's already beyond the bounds.

        yes, but I wrote

        reaching speed 9M
        1. Sancho_SP
          Sancho_SP 20 December 2021 14: 31
          +1
          Well, then you need to achieve it at the goal ...
          1. bk316
            bk316 20 December 2021 15: 26
            +1
            more precisely in the missile defense zone of the target hi
    2. Santa Fe
      15 December 2021 09: 51
      +2
      What will you write if it turns out that it flies perfectly for 1000 km reaching a speed of 9M?

      Are you proposing to start making excuses already?

      As of December 2021 - all facts and technical examples confirm my opinion that the 9-fly cruise missile does not exist
      Do you admit your mistakes, and most importantly, will you analyze them or not?

      Easy. Also, how the opinion about aircraft carriers or about zamvolta has changed. Under the influence of the above arguments and facts that I found myself
      I'll honestly say that the number of cases and deaths from coronavirus was predicted incorrectly.

      We had a dispute, I thought that the number of detected cases would not exceed 10 million (by analogy with past bird flu). At first it was impossible to imagine that the whole world would decide to spend money to test everyone in a row and this madness would drag on for two years.
  30. Viktor Potemkin
    Viktor Potemkin 14 December 2021 19: 35
    0
    I think that zircon is a modified onyx, just the onyx flies relatively low where the atmosphere and air resistance and at the same time develops 3m and zircon goes up 40 km where there is practically a vacuum and there this engine makes 9 m
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 15 December 2021 02: 36
      +1
      9M is impossible with a conventional supersonic ramjet engine. It's not just about air resistance.
  31. bzbo
    bzbo 15 December 2021 05: 52
    0
    author is a spy and a provocateur? Is the empire of sodomites waiting for the hypersound drain?
  32. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 15 December 2021 09: 45
    +2
    Another thing is more interesting: how is this rocket controlled and, especially, aimed at the dense atmosphere at sea level?

    By itself, hypersound in the dimensions of "Onyx" is not a problem on a conventional solid-propellant 3-4-stage rocket. It's just that the size of the warhead will be smaller.

    But here's what to get into something at the same time ..
    1. Santa Fe
      15 December 2021 09: 54
      +2
      By itself, hypersound in the dimensions of "Onyx" is not a problem on a conventional solid-propellant 3-4-stage rocket.

      Short-range ballistic missile = ideal target for air defense / missile defense
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 15 December 2021 11: 53
        +1
        Well, maneuvering at such speeds is generally a relative question. We don't know the device.
  33. shonsu
    shonsu 15 December 2021 11: 49
    0
    There was an opinion that at first I wanted to tell something, and then I look - no, he asks.
    - Convince me that zircon exists! Tell me what I don't know ...
  34. VicktorVR
    VicktorVR 16 December 2021 04: 21
    0
    And how much noise there was at one time - even the Australians "hypersonic" with might and main, and ours fucked everything up! ..
    So where are those Australians? :)

    And the fact that no one is going to remove Onyx and Caliber from weapons is logical (and it is strange that the author does not understand this).
    The invention of assault rifles / machine guns did not overthrow shotguns into history, but the MLRS and anti-aircraft guided missiles of barreled artillery. There is an optimal solution for each task.
  35. likas
    likas 17 December 2021 08: 05
    0
    how to live now? I'm used to trusting VGK!
  36. missile
    missile 17 December 2021 08: 20
    0
    The author has spent a lot of time and intelligence to prove that we do not have hypersonic weapons. But both we and the Americans have various tracking systems for anything, including missile launches))) which almost instantly determine all the parameters of a rocket's flight ... and partly because of this. and not after reading such studies)))) Biden is ready to be the first to contact us.
  37. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 17 December 2021 13: 42
    -1
    This year, the launch footage presented took into account an unfortunate mistake made when filming past tests. They began to retouch the footage, in which the operation of the attitude control engines at the head of the rocket was noticeable, followed by the shooting off of the engine air intake cover.

    It would be naive to believe that real footage of testing a secret weapon will be shown.
  38. BastaKarapuzik And
    BastaKarapuzik And 19 December 2021 22: 41
    0
    The Zircon supporters were never embarrassed by the simultaneous presence of the Onyx anti-ship missile system and 9-swing anti-ship missiles in service. Indeed, in the presence of hypersound, the former turn into “stone axes”. The exploitation of all available anti-ship missiles will become meaningless when weapons appear that can strike aircraft carriers and enemy fleets 3-5 times faster.

    This argument is a bit odd. No one was embarrassed by the simultaneous existence of subsonic missiles and supersonic ones? Both those and others were in service and operated at the same time.
    If a lot of subsonic missiles have been fired and there are carriers, what questions can there be?
    After all, no one is ever embarrassed that there is a "Caliber" and at the same time some old missiles developed in the USSR are in service. There is the Hail and there is the Tornado. There are large-caliber guns and small artillery systems, there are MIG and SU fighters (large and small), and so on.
    I don’t understand what problem the author saw here? It may be available in hypersound, but a complete transition to it is not planned, it is absolutely impossible. At least for the foreseeable future.
  39. zenion
    zenion 20 December 2021 21: 00
    0
    And if it does not reach Mach 9, then it returns to the launch site at the speed of an ordinary maize.
  40. vvp2412
    vvp2412 25 December 2021 23: 46
    0
    Do you see a gopher? Not? And he is!
    I believe that the Americans carefully monitor our tests, as we do theirs. And they would have long ago put "Putin's cartoons" into frames. But, after the laughs of 2018, they somehow became depressed. And this is a more weighty fact than any video about our tests.
  41. Ethereal
    Ethereal 29 December 2021 11: 46
    0
    > Very compelling footage to support the creation of the weapon
    What is so convincing about them? Filmed so that it was impossible to confidently identify the launch of a Soviet-designed Caliber cruise missile.
  42. Ryusei
    Ryusei 25 January 2022 21: 35
    0
    You are lying, in fact, Zircon flies from 0,10 light speed to a distance of 10-15 a.u.
  43. Eujine1975
    Eujine1975 20 March 2022 15: 23
    -1
    And what's the problem with making the combustion chamber and nozzles with variable geometry? This is the most obvious way to solve the problem. Implementation is technically also a task, but a different one. Variable nozzles have been working in aviation for a long time, if you invest a sufficient amount of dough and scientific potential in solving a technical problem, then "the impossible becomes possible." Moreover, the whole theory is there. Make layer-by-layer burnout of the material of the combustion chamber and nozzle, approaching at each moment of time to the optimal shape. Looking at the schematic of the motors is the most obvious way to solve the problem.