Military Review

Demonstration of strength, or who will scare whom

73

Everyone in the world today is busy discussing Russia's attack on Ukraine. Russian arguments that Russia is not planning any attacks are not accepted in the West, this is understandable. But even the President of Russia added a petrol to the fire, saying that "tension in the western direction is useful, because the partners will take Russian interests more seriously."


And the situation is blazing, it's great that while on the pages of the media, no further. But while the media in different countries are discussing the upcoming (or hypothetical) Russian attack on Ukraine, we will raise a slightly different topic.

The main question for today is, really, how useful is any show of force in terms of sobering up?

In general, the countries from the NATO bloc are very confident in their strength. Especially those who represent nothing of themselves, such as the Baltics. But there is some self-confidence.

In general, the block is a very, very strong structure, especially at sea. And it looks beautiful on land. Therefore, if you scare, demonstrating your capabilities, then in full program and not cartoons about "miracleweapon».

As practice shows, even a superpower can understand in time and back up at the negotiating table. The best example is the Cuban missile crisis, which was a direct result of the Turkish crisis. The Soviet Union did not like the idea of ​​the Pershing in Turkey; the United States did not want to have Soviet missiles in Cuba. And everything, finita, the negotiating table, and Kennedy and Khrushchev quite decently agreed.

The fact that today there are really no platforms on which to negotiate is a completely different matter. The fact that the United States was the first to initiate the collapse of the INF Treaty, the ABM Treaty, the Open Skies Treaty greatly reduces the number of topics for conversation in general. Today, only the START-3 Treaty is in effect, and even then, as I think, for now.

In such circumstances, perhaps the only way to encourage thinking about the future is showing of strength. The question is - who and what to scare, to whom to demonstrate the capabilities?


It is clear that the main message of the demonstrations is directed towards the United States. If the US perceives it, then all other NATO vassals act in the same way and without much discussion.

Another question: what to negotiate and what to push to these negotiations.

We seem to have a theme. Russia would like NATO not to accept Ukraine and Georgia into its ranks (it doesn’t dare to call this a proud “non-proliferation to the east”, in the east only these crumbs remained unoccupied), not to deploy offensive weapons on their territories and guarantee this in the form of appropriate signed documents.

Naturally, NATO today feels itself in such a way that it does not want to talk about any documents or treaties. The Biden-Stoltenberg connection works on the same wavelength and sounds everything quite clearly.

And so the question arises: what to do in this situation?

The answer suggests itself in the style of "we are strong, you can regret it." That is, the same aforementioned demonstration of strength.


There are many ways to demonstrate strength. One such method in the USSR was a military parade on Red Square. It was truly a landmark event, and it was held on November 7th. And many countries looked at him with interest, since it was here that the Soviet Union showed its new products.

And the whole world knew - if today this rocket or tank drove through Red Square, then tomorrow they will actually be in the army. Somehow there was no point in lying, because they would not "surrender" their own - they would tell who needed the "allies" in the ATS.

Today the parade has a slightly different meaning as it is held on May 9th. November became, as it were, not the most convenient month for celebrations, since the date was canceled, and a new one of this level was not invented.

Now, in fact, May 9, Victory Day is the only holiday that is really nationwide. These days of Russia and national unity - well, so-so holidays, because they are invented instead of others, often even more ridiculous (like the day of independence of Russia is not clear from whom) and incomprehensible.

Well, God bless them, strange holidays, the fact is that there is only one really nationwide Victory Day. A holiday that still exists and still really unites everyone.

And on this day, a military parade is now being held.


Photo by: kremlin.ru

Let me tell you my opinion right away: there are two components, good and bad. I'll start, as expected, with the bad one.

What this parade has become is not entirely clear to me personally. In my time (I was a participant in the 117th military parade on November 7, 1988) it was a real military parade. For the right to participate in it, there were very serious battles between military institutions and participation in the parade was an honor, and not a joke. Although no medals were given for this, it was prestigious.

Of course, there were also constant participants in parades on Red Square, such as the Suvorov and Nakhimov schools, MosVOKU, border guards, paratroopers, and so on. There were also inconsistent participants, but it was impossible to imagine such an outrage as the parade was turned into now.

How can the representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Federal Penitentiary Service, the Investigative Committee, the Cossacks, and the Yunarmiya be called a "demonstration of strength"? This is power?

As for the technical component, the “partners” are already openly giggling and slandering about it, discussing all the same 10 “Armats”, heels of “Boomerangs” and other types of weapons that do not have a mass production. Prototypes, so to speak.

In general, it is worth concluding that this parade by no means can be a demonstration of force. Ten "Armata" and boxes with non-military - this is not something that can be puzzled by Western "partners". This is not power, this is a demonstration of powerlessness.

The good thing is that now parades are held in cities where there is a technical opportunity.

These events will not scare anyone either, but they give the children the opportunity to see real military equipment. To join, so to speak, personally. This is a very rewarding business indeed. At least this is a chance to awaken something so patriotic in the minds of the kids.

The rest is just darkness and sadness. Parades, which from year to year drive the same "unmatched in the world" and released in single copies of equipment - this is somewhat not what is needed to intimidate a potential enemy.

And how to get it, an adversary?


As practice shows, the stirring of large masses of personnel and military equipment near the borders of states such as Ukraine and the Baltic states causes a much greater effect.

Indeed, large-scale maneuvers, sudden exits in the framework of inspections, exercises are more and more effective and effective. Indeed, in these events, not ceremonial crews of Cossack cadets participate, but quite normal privates and sergeants, often of contract service.

Yes, the T-72s don't look as brutal as the T-14s. And Msty is not like the Coalition. The question is, which is more efficient and effective, 10 "Armat" or 100 T-72?

It is clear that a hundred T-72s look much more dangerous precisely because there are many of them. Ten "Armata" is laughter. With ten tanks, even the most progressive, “lacking” and sophisticated, will be much easier to cope with than a hundred not so innovative, but proven by more than one war.


Therefore, they openly joke and laugh at our parades, but after the movements of older, but more massive equipment begin near the borders, screams begin.

And there are reasons for this.

This NATO expansion is actually not as terrible as we are shown. Let's see what acquisitions did the block make after 2000?

Albania. Bulgaria. Latvia. Lithuania. North Macedonia. Romania. Slovakia. Croatia. Slovenia. Estonia.

Do you see at least one country on the list that is something of a military nature? No, all these are small fragments of the Department of Internal Affairs and the communist camp that collapsed 30 years ago. And all 30 years there was a degradation of the armed forces of these countries.

Romania, this European flea market of old military equipment, we recently dismantled. There is also Bulgaria, which is no better. A "privileged" member of NATO, who was allowed to keep Soviet equipment in service, because according to the standards of the bloc, there is no chance of acquiring weapons from the word "at all."

Old MiG-21 and MiG-29, old T-72M1 and BMP-1, old Soviet boats. Everything is very old. If the Germans had not donated three old frigates from the master's shoulder, the fleet consisted only of boats and minesweepers.

In general, that is still a present for NATO.

But these "allies" must not only be accepted, they must equip their armed forces, transfer them to NATO standards, and resolve issues with governance.

This is such a huge amount of money that it is scary to even represent this entire former socialist camp fully in NATO. By and large, it's good that they are there. And they are pulling money and weapons from the United States and Germany, not from Russia. And if this whole gang remained on the balance sheet of the Russian bloc, it would have to be fed, watered and armed.

Well, how all these gentlemen can be good as allies, there is no need to say.

So you can accept the whole of Africa in NATO, who will get worse from this? Only the United States, which will have to put on-shoe-arm these and still try to shake the money out of them into the NATO budget. For protection and training, let's call it that.

The only real negative for us is the possibility of deploying offensive weapons on the territories of these countries. Yes, and defensive, from the same missile defense, by replacing missiles, you can easily turn into an offensive tactical weapon.

Yes, I'm all about the same, already mentioned Mk.41 missile defense installations in Poland and Romania. All our ears were buzzing that this is against Iran, but where is Iran from Poland ... Plus, the infrastructure is still being created: warehouses, workshops, equipment and equipment is being supplied.

It is unpleasant. It is worth fighting against this, at least by informing those who are so actively deploying NATO infrastructure on their territory that it can be very painful in certain situations. Or even fatal.

For Russia, it is not so much the advance of NATO to the east that poses a threat, in fact, the bloc has advanced as much as possible, there are only remnants of the socialist camp in the face of Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova, that's all, Europe is over, as the saturation of these territories with equipment and elements of military infrastructure.

Well, and the placement of more or less combat-ready combat units near the borders of Russia.

Combatable units from the same America - this is, of course, serious, they can become good detachments if necessary. The Americans, of course, will not fight for the Latvians, Lithuanians, Bulgarians and Romanians, not to mention the Ukrainians. This is not costing American lives at all, proven by Afghanistan.

Americans, with rare exceptions, generally prefer to fight with someone else's hands. So their presence in the Baltics or Slovenia is not as scary as the missile systems deployed near our borders on the territory of these countries. Airplanes at the airfields of countries. Ships in the ports of the allies.


In order for everything to happen not according to this scenario, it is worth demonstrating strength. But not in the same way as the "demonstration of the flag" by a couple of ships on the other side of the world, not in ostentatious parades. It is necessary to demonstrate the force that can destroy ships in ports, aircraft on airfields and tanks in hangars.

And - most importantly - it must be demonstrated so that the government of any country understands the idea of ​​the inevitable loss of not only the military infrastructure with the military equipment of the United States and allies deployed on it, but also its own facilities associated with the military.

This is a good way to convey to US allies the idea that Russia should be reckoned with in terms of deploying troops and facilities near Russian borders. Perhaps this approach will not scare anyone, but the goal is precisely for those who so fiercely advocate the deployment of NATO military facilities on their soil simply begin to think about the possible consequences of such actions.


Well, some experience will not hurt the Russian troops.
Author:
73 comments
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  1. Konnick
    Konnick 9 December 2021 06: 22
    0
    At the Victory Parade, the main thing is to cross correctly, the Minister of Defense believes .... lol
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 9 December 2021 07: 17
      -6
      Quote: Konnick
      the main thing is to cross correctly, says the Minister of Defense.

      Macedonian?
      1. Civil
        Civil 9 December 2021 07: 35
        -4
        Demonstration of strength or who will scare whom

        The DPRK is doing about the same thing.
        The question is, which is more efficient and effective, 10 "Armat" or 100 T-72?

        And who are you going to put in the tanks? Youth - the cat wept, not a call, but a gathering of all who can stand on their feet. For objective demographic reasons, you will have to focus on quality, not quantity.
        This is a good way to convey to US allies the idea that Russia should be reckoned with in terms of deploying troops and facilities near Russian borders.

        The US and NATO have already refused this. Our actions? War and another devastation?
        1. ammunition
          ammunition 9 December 2021 11: 02
          +4
          Quote: Civil
          The US and NATO have already refused this. Our actions? War and another devastation?

          In such cases, they turn to a natural ally with a request to create tension on the second front. Our natural ally is China. He is doomed without Russia. If Russia falls, China will fall too. Ask China to create a neat (appropriate) tension in the Pacific ... and other places convenient for it.
          1. Civil
            Civil 9 December 2021 11: 13
            +3
            Quote: ammunition
            Quote: Civil
            The US and NATO have already refused this. Our actions? War and another devastation?

            In such cases, they turn to a natural ally with a request to create tension on the second front. Our natural ally is China. He is doomed without Russia. If Russia falls, China will fall too. Ask China to create a neat (appropriate) tension in the Pacific ... and other places convenient for it.

            This is something new laughing Yes, the PRC will gladly saw the Russian Federation with the West. We have nothing in common with the PRC except the border. Why would a young and strong dragon intercede for an old and sick bear? Why would the communists help a handful of capitalists in a dispute with other capitalists? What kind of naturalness are you talking about?
            1. Victor Leningradets
              Victor Leningradets 9 December 2021 12: 04
              +7
              That would not be next.
              Japan in 1922. had to abandon plans to colonize the Far East under US pressure and evacuate.
              Exactly also, having seized the territory of the Russian Federation along the Urals inclusive, China would be trapped in the impossibility of rapid development of the captured and the threat of war in the East (Pacific Ocean), West (Europe) and South (India). At the same time, the United States remains practically inaccessible to conventional armed forces.
              1. Civil
                Civil 9 December 2021 12: 37
                -1
                Cheng Yijun, “Military alliances are a legacy of the Cold War, and there is no legitimate need for China to become part of them. NATO was created to counter the USSR, not China. And so far this organization has not harmed China's fundamental interests. If an alliance emerges, it will drag Beijing into conflicts between Europe and Russia, ”

                For the umpteenth time, our Chinese "friends" have thrown the Russian Federation.
                How before that Chinese banks supported the sanctions against Russia. Name at least one ally of the PRC (with a military assistance agreement, friend to friend), but not them, the PRC is its own ally, friend and partner. The young dragon will wait a moment.
            2. paul3390
              paul3390 9 December 2021 12: 33
              +3
              Why should China cut the Russian Federation? He already has a lot of land, he doesn't need the northern territories, like in figs. Avon - the whole of Inner Mongolia is empty. There are no special minerals in the Far East. China - first of all, we need energy resources. They are not there either. And what is - requires tremendous efforts to obtain. Even the mighty Soviet Union was not able to master those lands properly. Then why should they?
              1. Civil
                Civil 9 December 2021 12: 41
                +1
                Why should China cut the Russian Federation?

                Why help? Why help one handful of capitalists oppose other capitalists from the West? And to "cut" it figuratively, the PRC is primarily concerned with its economy. And if you "nag" with the Russian Federation, God forbid, something happens or, for natural demographic reasons, the Russians will cease their presence in the Far East. And you yourself know what tendencies there are.
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 9 December 2021 12: 45
                  +3
                  No - if, God forbid, a situation occurs when Russia loses control over the Far East - of course the PRC will take it back. Just so that others do not get it. Would you do it wrong? But - who will be to blame for this situation? Not China?
                  1. Civil
                    Civil 9 December 2021 12: 50
                    0
                    Russia will lose control over the Far East - of course, the PRC will take it back. Just so that others do not get it.

                    With this in mind, and the planning horizons of the PRC are such, it is advantageous for the Chinese not to help Russia, so that the Russian Federation is exhausted in the arms race in opposition to the West. As they already did once. To get yourself out of the blow, to expose Moscow. Therefore, in some kind of behind-the-scenes negotiations, they will promise to support. However, they will officially be silent and smile politely. In the east, it is customary to lie straight in the eyes, especially to the weak.
                    1. paul3390
                      paul3390 9 December 2021 12: 57
                      +7
                      I don’t think that China would benefit greatly from weakening Russia. Well, the Russian Federation will collapse - and what? China - will be left alone with the United States and Japan. Will it do? Oh I doubt it! In addition, it is not yet known who will come to power in Russia. What if the liberals? And then - China will also receive a land front in the north .. Plus - it will lose supplies of resources, military equipment and technologies. All this - why should he?
                      1. Civil
                        Civil 9 December 2021 13: 08
                        -2
                        Well, the Russian Federation will collapse - and what? China - will be left alone with the United States and Japan.

                        The PRC is already one. There is not a single military ally. And he will never entrust his security to a handful of oligarchs in the neighboring capital of the third world in decline.
                        In addition, it is not yet known who will come to power in Russia. What if the liberals?

                        And this is in general a matter of principle, who supplies raw materials to the PRC? Greedy liberalism will sell everything for money, as practice shows. What difference does it make to what the capitalists call themselves? Liberators or "patriots" are sides of the same coin. Everyone will sell. Down to the notorious rope.
                        And then - China will also receive a land front in the north.
                        And where will the Russian Federation find people for this venture? Young, trained in military affairs) in the right amount and. Alas.
                        Plus, it will lose supplies of resources, military equipment and technologies.

                        He will not lose anything. And the Soviet technologies have run out. Maybe only on the materials there was a small backlog. Everything else is sold.
                        All this - why should he?
                        To have a stable north. Not a dying superpower.
                      2. paul3390
                        paul3390 9 December 2021 13: 17
                        +6
                        Well - so far they are not particularly worried about their northern border. Avon - they even hid the ICBM launch area under our umbrella ..

                        Of course it is important. Because the liberals will carry out orders from Washington, and he will forbid selling anything to the Chinese. Avon - like the story with the Antonov Design Bureau.

                        And in Russia it will not be necessary to look for such people. For example, Central Asians will be driven across our border. Besides, who will care who is trained there and who is not? The opinion of the meat of the bourgeoisie is not interested.

                        If you run out - what, for example, is it still buying our engines and air defense? Nooo - there is still a lot left of the great Soviet Union ..

                        I do not think that the north occupied by China will be stable. On the contrary, it will suck out of them a lot of troops, dough and efforts.
                      3. Per se.
                        Per se. 9 December 2021 14: 39
                        +2
                        Quote: paul3390
                        Avon - they even hid the ICBM launch area under our umbrella ..
                        Did they hide, or did they make it as close as possible, did they maximize the radius in Russia?
                        Make no mistake, China needs fresh water, needs fertile soils, they are not available in Inner Mongolia, as well as in the rest of the Celestial Empire.

                        The West, if it wanted to, would have destroyed the PRC long ago, would have crushed it with sanctions, boycotts, isolation, and would have made "red" China a rogue state, like the DPRK. But, no, the Chinese "commies" are getting away with piracy, technology theft, and their "communism". China, the world counterfeit factory, bringing superprofits to world capitalism, and China itself, a potential replacement for the Third Reich no longer in the East, is against the Soviet nuclear legacy of Russia, which is still the only country that can destroy the United States.

                        China has territorial claims to all neighboring countries, including Russia, for this alone, China cannot be an ally to us, like Turkey.

                        By treaty, the withdrawal of our troops from the fortified areas from the border to the north, “into the tundra,” weakness.

                        China is not our friend, and what the USSR did, helped, for China, China will never do for Russia.
                        The irony and paradox is that the West would never spend so much on the Chinese, and only the USSR was able to pull China out of the mud, was able to cover it up, and helped to rise. After Damansky, the West began to help China, began to make it an eastern anti-USSR.

                        How our politicians will be able to use China, the question is, while Russian toys and household appliances are not bought in China, but practically everything is bought from us in China. Soviet technologies are squandered and sold. Soon, our military equipment will not be interesting for China either, so then we will get a new predatory monster on our empty borders. Alaska was sold to the United States earlier with the weakness of tsarism, so as not to have to sell new land to the Chinese according to the same logic, even without starting a war.
                      4. paul3390
                        paul3390 9 December 2021 14: 51
                        +5
                        Where have you seen comfortable arable land in the Far East ???

                        Fresh water - how do you think to deliver it to China? If there was such a method, our nonesh authorities would have sold everything themselves long ago.

                        Build a launch area within the reach of our even tactical missiles in order to approach ?? Don't you think this thesis is extremely dubious, to put it mildly?

                        Already - it cannot crush. Everything is too tied to the mutual economy. Previously, it was necessary to press, now the press is rather weak.

                        Of course not a friend! But - for now, for both of us there is a threat from the United States, a forced ally. And this threat - alas, will not go anywhere in the near future.
                      5. Per se.
                        Per se. 9 December 2021 14: 59
                        +2
                        Quote: paul3390
                        Build a launch area within the reach of our even tactical missiles in order to approach?
                        Pavel, for a preemptive strike, is quite, even in terms of such a perspective, already an argument.
                        Fresh water - how do you think to deliver it to China?

                        The Chinese themselves are ready to come to Baikal and the rivers of Siberia, even if our traders will also lay pipes with fresh water for them.
                        But - while the threat from the United States remains for both of us

                        China will not fight the United States, and China cannot destroy the United States, only Russia, or rather, the residual Soviet potential, which is the main threat to the United States, and not our corrupt and dependent bourgeoisie.
                        Finishing off China is already less of a problem for the West.
            3. businessv
              businessv 9 December 2021 19: 20
              +1
              Quote: Civil
              Why would the communists help a handful of capitalists in a dispute with other capitalists? What kind of naturalness are you talking about?

              Here you are right, if China clawed at the Union, being political "co-religionists", now these conventions will not be restrained at all. But I do not think that the PRC will enter into an agreement with the West because the West is not negotiable and any treaty it signs is worthless, and China knows about it.
            4. Illanatol
              Illanatol 11 December 2021 08: 57
              0
              Quote: Civil
              We have nothing in common with the PRC except the border. Why would a young and strong dragon intercede for an old and sick bear? Why would the communists help a handful of capitalists in a dispute with other capitalists?


              What if it becomes a border with the pro-Western Russian Federation, on the territory of which American military bases may eventually appear, as on the territory of present-day Ukraine?
              Why would a young dragon buy weapons from an old bear and sell strategic materials to him? Trade in such a product is evidence of a particularly trusting relationship between the powers. When did the United States sell (buy) weapons to countries it recognized as unfriendly?

              But how it happened that the Chinese communists and Russian state capitalists, in fact, found themselves on the same side on the barricades of Cold War 2.0.

              And no need to pay attention to public statements. The language was given to the Chinese in order to hide their thoughts.
          2. AUL
            AUL 9 December 2021 23: 51
            0
            Quote: ammunition
            Our natural ally is China. He is doomed without Russia. If Russia falls, China will fall too.


            Well sooo controversial statement! Argument, plizz!
        2. vervolk
          vervolk 11 December 2021 16: 14
          -3
          there will be no war. the West will be liquid and will make concessions!
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 9 December 2021 06: 32
    -4
    I'm wondering who is making fun of the parades, non-brothers or something, or the Baltic regions? Their opinion is very important.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 9 December 2021 09: 13
      +5
      I'm wondering who is making fun of the parades, non-brothers or something, or the Baltic regions? Their opinion is very important.

      Or maybe this is not a joke? And what have the Balts or non-brothers to do with it? At the parades, the most important joke is the drapery of the Mausoleum, and the most joke is the removal of the tricolor, compromised by the ROA, in front of the Victory Banner.
      1. businessv
        businessv 9 December 2021 19: 23
        +1
        Quote: Konnick
        the most funny thing is the removal of the tricolor, compromised by ROA, in front of the Victory Banner.
        You can't argue, I also think that the Victory Parade should be held with all the obligatory attributes of the USSR! One can argue about the tricolor - this banner, before the mentioned traitor, was fanned with a mass of glorious victories!
      2. vervolk
        vervolk 11 December 2021 16: 16
        -2
        Tell me, and according to your logic, have the rag and trident been compromised by the OUN and Petliurites?
  3. NDR-791
    NDR-791 9 December 2021 06: 32
    +10
    I recently heard an interesting opinion. The Treaty Banning Nuclear Weapon Tests in the Atmosphere, Outer Space and Under Water (also known as the Moscow Treaty) was signed on August 5, 1963. Almost 60 years have passed since then. None of the living mighty of this world have ever had even a theoretical opportunity to see not only the consequences, but even just tests "live". Hence the devil-may-care attitude. It seems that everything is in theory both in the frames and in the pictures, but this is not at all the same. Even the explosion of a howitzer shell on TV and felt (albeit in cover) personally is heaven and earth. They just stopped being afraid that you shouldn't show it.
    1. ammunition
      ammunition 9 December 2021 11: 08
      +4
      Quote: NDR-791
      Even the explosion of a howitzer shell on TV and felt (albeit in cover) personally is heaven and earth. Have ceased to be afraid

      repeat What is there an explosion? People don't even know what a howitzer shot is -)) An RPG-7 shot is mistaken for a ship's gun shot. They are no longer afraid .. that's for sure.
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 9 December 2021 11: 20
        +3
        Quote: ammunition
        An RPG-7 shot is mistaken for a ship's gun shot.

        I don't care about THEIR people. But ours ... From the eighth grade we ourselves were driven around the polygons, which they just didn’t see enough, heard enough. In the tenth grade, they even ran in tanks.
  4. faiver
    faiver 9 December 2021 06: 36
    +4
    How can the representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Federal Penitentiary Service, the Investigative Committee, the Cossacks, and the Yunarmiya be called a "demonstration of strength"? This is power?
    - the parade on May 9 is no longer a demonstration of strength, it was under the USSR with its secrecy and secrecy in the defense industry, parades were a demonstration of strength, and now they are just a tribute to tradition, because you can hear about new weapons (not even created yet) from almost every iron. ... hi
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 9 December 2021 10: 29
      0
      Quote: faiver
      it was under the USSR with its secrecy and secrecy in the defense industry, parades were a demonstration of strength

      It was during the time of the corn-maker that parades were a demonstration of strength - when ICBMs were being transported across Red Square, and strategists flew to Tushino. And under the browbearer, the parades, instead of the might of the army, demonstrated the wonders of the insanity of secrecy - from year to year the same BTR-60, BMP-1, bald T-72 and Elbrus vehicles went on them. Because we are for world peace, and we cannot boast of combat power.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. nikvic46
    nikvic46 9 December 2021 07: 12
    +4
    I have no doubt about the need for Parades. But there are other opportunities to show their strength to the opposing side. When there was a Cuban missile crisis, exercises were held near the Turkish border. There were tank maneuvers, and even an imitation of a nuclear explosion. There was a terrible commotion on the adjacent side. After that, the American services were removed. I must say, despite the military hysteria of the West, it is impossible to compare the affairs of the Cold War with the current one. Then there was a confrontation in all respects. With downed planes, catching ships one after another, and so on.
  7. Doccor18
    Doccor18 9 December 2021 07: 22
    +10
    This NATO expansion is actually not as terrible as we are shown. Let's see what acquisitions did the block make after 2000?

    Albania. Bulgaria. Latvia. Lithuania. North Macedonia. Romania. Slovakia. Croatia. Slovenia. Estonia.

    Do you see at least one country on the list that is something of a military nature?

    These former "Soviet bridgeheads" have become NATO bridgeheads. What's positive about that? Let not a single tank and aircraft be included in these under-armies, it won't get any easier. Territory! A large territory and population of former allies (whatever they were) were given to the enemy just like that. Now they are building their bases there (air defense / missile defense facilities, airbases, etc.), conducting exercises, getting used to the local conditions of the area. What's self-soothing about that? Enemy strategic bombers fly over Kiev, they fly like at home, could it have been imagined 40 or 50 years ago ...
    And the second non-iridescent aspect: the needy population of these states. For a good salary, people will go anywhere, including to the front lines. Quality? And special quality is not required. All that is needed is mass character and military hysteria. If there is bloodshed, then it is clear who will be made guilty ...
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 9 December 2021 08: 38
      +5
      Quote: Doccor18
      If there is bloodshed, then it is clear who will be made guilty ...

      Yes, even if it does not, all the same, the Russian Federation is ALREADY to blame.
      But to hang on the mausoleum during the parade portraits of I.V. Stalin and the marshals of Victory ... this can scare the "partners" much more. Psychological Shock Can Be Strong, Too
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 9 December 2021 10: 42
        +9
        But to hang on the mausoleum during the parade portraits of I.V. Stalin and the marshals of Victory ... this can scare the "partners" much more.

        I think that Comrade Stalin at the mausoleum will scare our authorities much more than dear foreign partners ..
  8. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 9 December 2021 07: 31
    +3
    Everyone in the world today is busy discussing Russia's attack on Ukraine.
    That is, they have declared Russia an aggressor and are sitting waiting for it to come to the war?
    1. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 9 December 2021 09: 20
      +4
      That is, they have declared Russia an aggressor and are sitting waiting for it to come to the war?

      When NATO is ready, the new Gleiwitz will not be long in coming.
      NATO has plenty of cannon fodder and footholds to repeat the blitzkrieg. They only need:
      1. Increase the number of ground and airmobile troops and train the Eastern European beggars (takes time).
      2. Saturate the troops with the latest technology (fast enough).
      3. Provide the logistics of military operations (funds are already available, only organizational measures are needed).
      1. vervolk
        vervolk 11 December 2021 16: 19
        -2
        4.Gather the courage and determination (not feasible)
  9. Kesha1980
    Kesha1980 9 December 2021 08: 16
    +2
    The parade, instead of projecting power and intimidating Western "partners", has long been a show for the domestic public. It is held for commoners.
    But so what? Let it be better than not. Everyone is pleased to watch - everyone is pleased to participate.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 10 December 2021 21: 42
      +3
      I would strengthen the technical, aviation part of the parade. In fact, mostly people look at the equipment, and not at the columns on foot.
      1. Kesha1980
        Kesha1980 10 December 2021 23: 28
        0
        I would show combat more often! application of technology. And the last time I recorded many front shoals during the solemn passage of foot columns. The director (who is responsible for certain cameras) did not cope - it’s bad for him.
        (I myself "once somewhere" was the first to guide the boxes - a subjective opinion)). Sincerely, hi
  10. Rostock
    Rostock 9 December 2021 09: 21
    +2
    We now have, in addition to the NATO bloc, the Turks in the south and the Japanese in the far east.
  11. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 9 December 2021 09: 30
    +2
    even to represent this entire former socialist camp fully in NATO is scary


    For NATO, this is the same buffer zone as "brotherly" Belarus is for us.
    1. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 9 December 2021 11: 03
      +1
      I'm afraid to be mistaken, but Belarus in this situation is quite consistent with the Bialystok trap of 1941.
  12. victor50
    victor50 9 December 2021 09: 41
    +3
    Calmness, toughness, consistency and keeping one's promises and threats, and not "blah blah blah" is a demonstration of strength and confidence.
  13. Gray Wolf_30
    Gray Wolf_30 9 December 2021 09: 53
    +2
    How can the representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Federal Penitentiary Service, the Investigative Committee, the Cossacks, and the Yunarmiya be called a "demonstration of strength"? This is power?
    You shouldn't be so. During the Second World War, the NKVD troops fought to the death in Stalingrad, the Cossacks were returned to their traditional uniform, obviously not because they were in the rear, but the "Yunarmeytsy" is a patriotic upbringing! These are the same young guys and girls like Marat Kazei, Grisha Podobedov and many other Heroes who were not 18 years old!
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 9 December 2021 10: 07
      +3
      I agree with you. Of course the power! In addition, "The people and the army are united", a slogan from Soviet times. But even now it is relevant. When a box of offshore businessmen or students of London private schools of Russian origin is formed, questions will arise.
  14. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 9 December 2021 10: 03
    +2
    Under the USSR, the projection of force is a strategic exercise of all branches of the military, not parades. The states knew almost everything about us that they were allowed to know. You cannot hide from satellite reconnaissance for a long time.
  15. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 9 December 2021 10: 08
    -2
    Well, how bae ...
    A parade, it will be cheaper than maneuvers.
    Although yes, with the same approach, this is more of a funny show than a military event.
    The simplest thing is to blow up the "mother of Kuzma" again over the Arctic.
    Oh yes, we have not yet withdrawn from this agreement.
    Well, then it would be enough to really defeat the barmaley in Syria, that would be noble.
  16. Glory1974
    Glory1974 9 December 2021 10: 11
    +6
    As for the technical component, the “partners” are already openly giggling and slandering about it, discussing all the same 10 “Armats”, heels of “Boomerangs” and other types of weapons that do not have a mass production. Prototypes, so to speak.

    You can, of course, drive several hundred T-72s across Red Square to intimidate. But then they will begin to giggle that they are all outdated, still of Soviet construction.
    You just have to honestly talk about the problems in the construction of new technology, without boasting that we are riveting thousands of them. The people are not as stupid and uneducated as people think about them. Will understand.
  17. Victor Leningradets
    Victor Leningradets 9 December 2021 10: 13
    +4
    Do you see at least one country on the list that is something of a military nature? No, all these are small fragments of the Department of Internal Affairs and the communist camp that collapsed 30 years ago.

    All this is the configuration of the front line and rear support. As well as a supply of manpower, from which within 5-6 years it is possible to prepare troops that are not inferior in training to the Wehrmacht (relative to 1939 - 1940)
    Now let's project this onto the historical period of the summer of 1941 and move the NATO troops to the turn of September 1941. The result is the Vologda - Voronezh - Volgograd - Stavropol line.
    Correlating this with the internal situation of the Russian Federation and taking into account the situation in the North Caucasus, as well as in the Volga and Ural regions, we get a completely hopeless situation from the point of view of waging a conventional war. All that remains is "the whole world is in dust", although there is an assumption that here, too, our opponents will be the first, so instead of "trash" we can get "acceptable damage".
    With the collapse of the Russian Federation, it will not be difficult for China to occupy / annex all of its Asian part, including the Urals.
    Conclusions:
    1. The current configuration of the front line is absolutely unacceptable for the Russian Federation to conduct military operations in the next five years.
    2. Time is working against us due to the incomparability of scientific and industrial potential, material and human resources.
    3. Political, economic and diplomatic pressure on the front-line NATO states are ineffective, alike. how these territories are under external political and military control.
    4. Since the situation confronts the Russian leadership with the task of preserving the state and national identity, a set of measures is needed to resolve the crisis in our favor, regardless of the norms of international law and observance of previously adopted restrictions.
    1. vervolk
      vervolk 11 December 2021 16: 23
      -1
      from Romanians, Italians, Croats and other Spaniards, even the Wehrmacht could not prepare any force. always skidded at the first contact with the Soviet army. and their grandchildren are the same
  18. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 9 December 2021 11: 31
    +5
    The question is - who and what to scare, to whom to demonstrate the capabilities?
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 18 December 2021 18: 28
      -1
      Shine!
      -Sofa, Vi, can you imagine, I'm my own idiot
      sent for potatoes and was hit by a car!
      -Horror! And what is it now?
      - I don’t know, I’ll probably cook rice.
  19. Misza
    Misza 9 December 2021 11: 39
    -7
    Why didn't the author mention the countries that joined NATO in 1999?
  20. Victor Leningradets
    Victor Leningradets 9 December 2021 11: 51
    -1
    The fact that today there are really no platforms on which to negotiate is a completely different matter. The fact that the United States was the first to initiate the collapse of the INF Treaty, the ABM Treaty, the Open Skies Treaty greatly reduces the number of topics for conversation in general.

    In fact, this indicates that the stage of "casting a shadow over the wattle fence" is over, and "putting the crayfish behind a stone" has been completed. The United States no longer needs negotiations (which seem to have been an end in itself for our leadership in recent decades).
    We found ourselves in a situation where the "partners of Vladimir Putin" were preparing the Third World War against Russia and China, with the aim of seizing resources (Russia) and organizing "industrial slavery" (China) to provide the "golden billion" (the number is being specified) with everything necessary. The fate of the rest of humanity is not visible in the future configuration of the planet.
    Like any "correct strategist", the United States will prefer to smash opponents one by one, and will certainly start with the weakest - that is, from Russia. They are confident that Russia, torn apart by class and internal political contradictions, financially controlled by the IMF, is a weak adversary. The only thing that holds them back is the presence of strategic nuclear weapons, a relic of the USSR that remains at our disposal. At the same time, they remain confident that we will not be the first to use this deadly weapon, which means that they have a certain head start.
    At the same time, the "Washington Chess Players" themselves are under the threat of "hanging mate" in the case of the outbreak of war in the Pacific region by China in alliance with Russia.
    We have to admit: we have already failed strategically preparing for the Third World War. If you do not take into account the complete surrender, then Russia has only one way - the closest cooperation with China in terms of the production of weapons and the deployment of armed forces.
    On the "Military Review" they wrote a lot and at length about the long-term unpreparedness of our Navy for the upcoming war, as well as some of China's successes in building the fleet. Without going into details, one should assess what forces at the turn of 2030 China and Russia will be able to deploy when:
    1. Combining the scientific, technical and military-industrial potential of the two countries.
    2. Financing behind closed doors at the cost of energy, raw materials and industrial products not tied to cooperation with Western countries, in order to expand military production.
    3. Management of a single Committee of Chiefs of Staff (KNSH) of interaction between the armed forces of both countries.
    I dare to suggest that such cooperation could greatly undermine the desire of the United States (or the World Behind the Scenes) to unleash a war in the next decade, which would give time for a better organization of armed confrontation for China and Russia, and in the future, would radically change the situation in the world.
  21. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 9 December 2021 12: 33
    +9
    All of the above is, in general, our standard paradigm of thinking, this is a vicious circle along which we have been rolling for decades, and which is a dead end of objective security.
    In ancient times, the USSR had many thousands of tanks and a more advantageous disposition, almost to the center of Europe. In the event of the outbreak of a major war, there was a fairly large-scale and expansive plan of action, under which there were people, technology, and a fairly well-dispersed industry. The USSR clearly did not suit the alignment in the style of "everything is in dust, we are in heaven and you go somewhere", the calculation was that the enemy would be kicked out of Europe, if necessary, turning Britain into a lunar landscape. And this is where the war, albeit destructive, ends, because the remaining USA-Canada have less resource and psychological potential to wage a protracted war, and given the fierce superiority in the number of nuclear weapons at the end of the 70s and beginning of the 80s, the question of the development of a limited nuclear war into an unlimited one was not so unambiguous for Americans, whose imagination works better with quantitative indicators. In other words, the USSR had a plan and there was more or less comprehensive preparation for this plan, this plan was supported by the foreign policy line, internal demography, etc. It was a complex of large-scale measures, which in general hinted at the very real ability of the USSR to carry out all this and maybe even survive in the process.

    In this case, every show of power would make sense. And what we are seeing today is, alas, not funny. Since the collapse of the USSR, not a trace has remained of our theoretical ability to do something similar, as well as of our complex, of our demography. We are no longer present in central Europe, we do not have any kind of internal affairs department, we do not have a more fierce quantitative advantage in nuclear weapons over the United States, and those tank armadas that were quite combat-ready in the 70s and 80s, there are no more of them either. Thus, there is practically NOTHING behind our show of power. What is our plan - the whole world to dust? This is not a plan, this is what is called the last resort. Will we smash the whole world to dust if NATO appears in Georgia? No, of course we won't. And when (and if) all this will creep into Ukraine, we will not either. If all this is carried out smoothly, slowly, in small steps.

    How can we prevent this now? Force - no way. We have no bargaining chips in Ven. count, they do not have a strong economy and some kind of monumental complex, plan. We have weak demographics and huge borders. The only thing we can do is to temporarily become this very "regional power", to focus on our region, to subjugate it economically again. To build up fat, to debug things within the state. We must learn from the PRC to calmly and methodically subjugate the markets - this is where the main struggle is now, this is where the key to a strong Armed Forces and far-reaching plans lies. We have no other options.
    1. Terran ghost
      Terran ghost 10 December 2021 13: 17
      -2
      and given the fierce preponderance in the number of nuclear weapons at the end of the 70s and beginning of the 80s, the question of the development of a limited nuclear war into an unlimited one was not so unambiguous for the Americans

      The "fierce" (actually slightly less than two-fold) "superiority" in the total number of nuclear weapons actually did not matter at all. More precisely, it had, but negative for the Soviet Union - the costs of creating and maintaining, in general, unnecessary extra "for the preponderance" of weapons undermined the economy of the USSR. Alas, this is exactly how it is.
      The essence of the then strategic situation was different - the number of strategic nuclear weapons both in the USSR and in the USA was sufficient to guarantee the complete destruction of a theoretically potential adversary. The situation was still defined - "guaranteed mutual destruction".
      Therefore, the attitude to the prospect of the war growing into an unlimited nuclear one was completely unambiguous both for the United States and the USSR - "God forbid from this!"
      the calculation was that the enemy was kicked out of Europe, if necessary, turning Britain into a lunar landscape.

      Which would be guaranteed to lead to an unlimited nuclear war. With understandable fatal results for both sides.
      We must learn from the PRC to calmly and methodically subjugate the markets

      It takes a strong economy to subdue markets. And I will immediately inform someone unexpected, but unpleasant news. An economic boom on the model and methods of China in the second half of the 1980s-2000s is impossible for the Russian Federation. For the USSR in the 1980s, it was also, SUDDENLY, impossible.
      The explanation is simple. The goal of Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms in China was essentially China's transition from an agrarian-type economy (the majority of the population lives in rural areas, engaged in agriculture, which is carried out by "traditional" (archaic) extremely labor-intensive, but, moreover, low-productivity means) to an industrial-type economy ( the majority of the population lives in cities, are employed in the sectors of industrial production), and subsequently - in a post-industrial economy (the majority of the population lives in cities, is employed in the provision of services).
      That is, in fact, China in the 1980s-2000s made about the same economic transition as Germany, for example, in the second half of the 19th century. With a corresponding sharp rise in the country's aggregate GDP.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 10 December 2021 14: 25
        +2
        The allies of the United States understood that this arsenal would be enough for them, so there were no special show-offs from the same Great Britain. Considering that in Western democracies society exerts a rather strong influence on power, and quantitative indicators have a rather strong effect on society, there was a sense of a two-fold superiority, at least in psychological terms, that is, it had an effect. Another thing is that yes, it cost us a pretty penny and military spending pushed our economy in the end.
        At the time of the peak of the Cold War, a "total nuclear war" was not guaranteed, because the general defense line of the USSR was already quite obvious, the communists lost a significant part of their externally perceived odiousness, at the same time we had a peak of industrial, demographic and military capabilities. Although NATO technically had superiority over us, in the event of the outbreak of a conflict or in the face of its inevitability, we had every opportunity to quickly collapse the European flank of NATO and, in the event of a systematic (and not one-step) nuclear escalation, bring the war to a stage when the United States would have there is a choice between mutual destruction or patovka. Despite the ostentatious Reaganism, the guys there already understood that the communists were no longer the same and were much more negotiable. So I do not exclude that in the event of a systematic nuclear escalation, Europe would remain with us, and the United States would hand over its cards, focusing on the direction that it has now taken - AUKUS + Canada. It would be our nuclear superiority that would contribute to this.
        It takes a strong economy to subdue markets. And I will immediately inform someone unexpected, but unpleasant news. An economic boom on the model and methods of China in the second half of the 1980s-2000s is impossible for the Russian Federation. For the USSR in the 1980s, it was also, SUDDENLY, impossible.

        Neither in the 80s nor now there is a need for us to roll on the Chinese rails in the development of the economy and industry. Our state does not have such a demography and people will not tear their guts like that, and the climate does not dispose. I believe that in the economic breakthrough we can and should rely on what we have strong - namely, our resource, energy and, to a lesser extent, intellectual component.
        Our country has significant reserves of all types of ER, including hydropower, we also have good nuclear developments, including fast neutrons, MOX fuels, construction and operation of multi-reactor nuclear power plants. That is, for new industrialization, we have the potential to provide it with cheap and stable generation based on our own resources, and in order to reduce costs, go along the path of creating clusters that combine access to labor, removal of excess heat to housing and greenhouse facilities.
        The second point is our resources. The country has significant reserves of natural resources and metals, as well as a developed network for their delivery and extraction. We do not need to import it from abroad and potentially we are not affected by price fluctuations for all this outside, if these resources are used to create a product HERE.
        The third point is intellectual potential. We have enough universities and have our own scientific school, this is a fairly good support for the development of the economy in terms of creating our own specialists and technologies where it is economically justified or limited by sanctions. Considering the substantial difference in earnings between ours and Western specialists, this can also be attributed to advantages.
        I think that taking into account our modest population and its low concentration, we need to go into the robotic direction of production, in general, to use the Japanese experience of the times of the so-called "Japanese miracle". A person in such a scheme will be busy with construction, design, production, development and design, and a significant part of society will be economically closed on itself - training, treatment, functioning of institutions, marketing. Where cheap labor is needed, we will have enough migrants, the supplying states of which will be the first markets we will capture.
  22. bandabas
    bandabas 9 December 2021 12: 34
    +2
    Yeah. The parades are really in trouble. Not even in the sense of technology, but in relation to the history of the Country - the drapery of the Mausoleum. Acceptance of parades, sitting imposingly on chairs - two. The three enumeration is very huge. hi
  23. Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO 9 December 2021 14: 04
    0
    Quote: Civil
    Demonstration of strength or who will scare whom

    The DPRK is doing about the same thing.
    The question is, which is more efficient and effective, 10 "Armat" or 100 T-72?

    And who are you going to put in the tanks? Youth - the cat wept, not a call, but a gathering of all who can stand on their feet.

    Indeed, everything is so bad with the draft that the parents are already giving bribes to the military commissars so that their children are taken into the army :))
  24. borys
    borys 9 December 2021 16: 18
    +4
    It is not enough to demonstrate strength. It sometimes needs to be applied.
    What would "dear partners" think better.
  25. Martin
    Martin 9 December 2021 18: 19
    0
    As for the technical component, the “partners” are already openly giggling and slandering about it, discussing all the same 10 “Armats”, heels of “Boomerangs” and other types of weapons that do not have a mass production. Prototypes, so to speak.

    Well, about "giggle", and what else is left for them? About hypersound, too, giggled. Not for long, really.
    Regarding 10 pieces: the T-72 was once in such quantity. And the T-34 Koshkin drove through the snow to Moscow in the amount of 2 pieces. It all starts with this. Another thing is that under the USSR these 10 Armata would have been classified for the most tomatoes, but now it is customary to exhibit prototypes at parades. Well, okay. The fools giggle, the smart ones ponder. Every year the prototypes are getting closer and closer to the series.
    And about the "show of force", so one does not cancel the other. Serial (modernized, by the way) production en masse along the border smokes with a squint, prototypes march along Red Square (and at the factory they finish off the technological equipment), ships are equipped with hypersound "from cartoons", new soldiers are handed out "Kalash" ... Everything is normal.
  26. DMi
    DMi 9 December 2021 18: 27
    +2
    At the parade on May 9, in addition to Armata and Boomerang, they show many more different new equipment. And most of them are already in the army.
    This is not even mentioning that Armata has already gone in small batches, and Boomerang is on the way.
    But I really want to poke poisonously. It is fashionable and relevant
  27. faterdom
    faterdom 10 December 2021 00: 09
    +1
    It is necessary to demonstrate that force that can destroy ships in ports, aircraft at airfields and tanks in hangars.

    And who doesn't know Petrov? Or Boshirov?
    Okay, there Mishkin or Chepiga is not only known to everyone, but these are?
  28. Terran ghost
    Terran ghost 10 December 2021 11: 40
    0
    Combatable units from the same America are, of course, serious, they can become good detachments if necessary.

    Americans, with rare exceptions, generally prefer to fight with someone else's hands.

    What rare nonsense is written here, hmm ... When is it specifically the United States "fought by proxy" let me ask you, dear author?
  29. Bor_2
    Bor_2 10 December 2021 23: 00
    0
    that something like t is not about anything in particular, like let's act, we seem to be trying, but the result is not clear ... maybe we ordinary people do not understand high intentions
  30. shoroh
    shoroh 11 December 2021 00: 03
    -1
    All this reasoning about the war with Russia is propaganda nonsense. No one will fight a power with more than 1000 nuclear warheads with a yield of up to 5 megatons. The Ukrainian crisis aims to embroil Russia with Europe in order to take gas supplies to Europe for American companies.

    And everyone in Russia understands this very well. There are no problems with Ukraine, no one will seriously fight with it. Again there will be vacationers and the "Donbass militia". During the war in Syria, the MTR gained vast experience in conducting hostilities, the videoconferencing gained experience in hostilities, so local offensives in the Donbass will be defeated remotely without even flying into the space of Ukraine - Israel's experience has long been studied. All these columns of armored vehicles of Ukraine will be destroyed remotely, completely nullifying the potential of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    And no one will fight column after column. For the striking and high-precision power of Russia will be enough for a dozen Ukrainians, if not more. Those who will begin to speak in a minute, they say, this is a shappy-handed mood, wake up. A blow by Krasnopolye along with calibers will cool any hotheads in Kiev.
  31. Illanatol
    Illanatol 11 December 2021 09: 03
    +2
    Quote: Terran Ghost
    The "fierce" (actually slightly less than two-fold) "superiority" in the total number of nuclear weapons actually did not matter at all. More precisely, it had, but negative for the Soviet Union - the costs of creating and maintaining, in general, unnecessary extra "for the advantage" of weapons undermined the economy of the USSR


    Had. The USSR proceeded from the concept of a retaliatory strike and the fact that part of the strategic nuclear forces would be destroyed by the first strike of the enemy.
    This branch of the military did not have any negative effect on the economy of the USSR, as well as the military-industrial complex as a whole. All these are tales of the liberals.
    The military-industrial complex was, is and will remain for a long time the driver of the economic and technological development of our country.
  32. Illanatol
    Illanatol 11 December 2021 09: 13
    +2
    Quote: Terran Ghost
    to an industrial economy (most of the population lives in cities, employed in the industrial sectors), and subsequently to a post-industrial economy (most of the population lives in cities, is employed in the provision of services).


    There is no "post-industrial economy", all this nonsense.
    The real economy was and is industrial in nature. It's just that the Western countries brought their industrial sectors to the "developing" countries (and to the same China), and what they left behind was called the "post-industrial economy."

    Service industry, retail, etc. were fully developed in ancient times, nothing new.

    Despite all the "hi-tech", we still exist in the Iron Age.
  33. PavelV
    PavelV 11 December 2021 13: 32
    0
    Quote: Illanatol
    Quote: Terran Ghost
    to an industrial economy (most of the population lives in cities, employed in the industrial sectors), and subsequently to a post-industrial economy (most of the population lives in cities, is employed in the provision of services).


    There is no "post-industrial economy", all this nonsense.
    The real economy was and is industrial in nature. It's just that the Western countries brought their industrial sectors to the "developing" countries (and to the same China), and what they left behind was called the "post-industrial economy."

    Service industry, retail, etc. were fully developed in ancient times, nothing new.

    Despite all the "hi-tech", we still exist in the Iron Age.

    A little more - and it will become clear that there is no industrial economy, there is a traditional one, because agriculture has survived. winked
    In terms of employment, the service sector dominates now. Yes, this happened due to the fact that the industrial economy has formed a high standard of consumption for the bulk of the population of developed countries, increasing the demand for services. But likewise, the possibility of industrialization was associated with the ability of branches of the traditional economy (agriculture) to feed large cities.
  34. pylon101
    pylon101 13 December 2021 05: 34
    +1
    The question has been posed correctly, but no answer has been given.
    How to demonstrate?
    We had exercises near Hawaii. Since I live in Virginia, I can say that nobody was impressed by this. Because it would never occur to anyone that we will start the second Pearl Harbor.
    Judging by the local media, what impressed you?
    Yes, the build-up on the borders of Ukraine was impressive.
    The zircons impressed. From some point, about a year or two ago, all the media have been writing exclusively about the threat of "China and Russia." That's right, in that order. And always in a "bundle".
    And what else - I can't even say.
    Both sides are at an impasse.
    There is nothing we can do in Ukraine, as economic sanctions will really create problems in our already not very prosperous economy.
    They, too, will not take Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. Just because they are afraid of the Big War.
    Well, GDP did the right thing to mark the "red" lines. And spoke from Biden.
  35. Illanatol
    Illanatol 15 December 2021 13: 57
    0
    Quote: PavelV
    A little more - and it turns out that there is no industrial economy, there is a traditional one, because agriculture has survived


    What is "traditional"? This type of economy does not exist.
    There is a "natural economy" that meets the urgent needs of the producer and there is a "market economy", the main priority is profit and profit.
    Previously, the peasants grew grain so that they themselves have what they have, the current agricultural works for the market, for sale, i.e. agriculture has become an industry itself with all the attributes (mechanization, division of labor, etc.).

    Quote: PavelV
    In terms of employment, the service sector dominates now. Yes, this happened due to the fact that the industrial economy has formed a high standard of consumption for the bulk of the population of developed countries, increasing the demand for services.


    Not only. In fact, high standards of consumption were created artificially by the elite in order to ensure a class peace, and thanks to the increased exploitation of the countries of the "third world".
    Currently, this alignment is not changing in favor of the middle class. It is more profitable for the elite to reduce its number, since the service sector and trade not only create added value, but simply redistribute it.
    The real weight of sectors of the economy is not determined mechanically by the number of workers employed in them.
  36. Kushka
    Kushka 18 December 2021 18: 18
    0
    "Not to be next ....... "
    At the doctor
    -What are you complaining about?
    - Doctor, they ignore me!
    -Next!.