France wins the largest-ever contract for the supply of Rafale F4 fighters to a foreign customer

The French company Dassault Aviation has signed the largest contract with a foreign customer for the supply of Rafale fighters. Reportedly, the United Arab Emirates became the next customer of the French fighters.

On December 3, 2021, France and the UAE signed a contact for the supply of the Arab Air Force with 80 French multifunctional fighters Dassault Rafale in the F4 modification. In addition to fighters, the contract also includes the purchase of 12 Airbus Helicopters H225M Caracal multipurpose helicopters. The total amount of the contract is about 17 billion euros, of which 16 billion the UAE pays for fighters, including 2 billion of this amount for aviation armament.

Thus, 80 Rafale F4 fighters will cost the UAE 14 billion euros, i.e. about 175 million euros per plane, which is 197 million 750 thousand dollars at today's exchange rate.

The delivery of the fighters will begin in 2026 or 2027. As part of the UAE Air Force and Air Defense, they will replace 59 French-assembled Dassault Mirage 2000-9 fighters in service.

France reportedly has the largest stories a contract for the supply of Rafale F4 fighters to a foreign customer. It was signed during a visit to the UAE by French President Emmanuel Macron. The agreement was signed by the representative of Dassault Aviation Eric Trappier and the general director of the Emirates state defense-industrial holding Tavazun Tarek Abdul Rahim Al Hosani in the presence of Macron and Crown Prince of the United Arab Emirates Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan.

It is emphasized that the United Arab Emirates remained true to its principle of purchasing only French and American fighters. After receiving all 80 aircraft, the UAE will become the largest operator of Rafale fighters after France.

Comments

[Victor_B]

It would be extremely curious to know the opinion of the Indian flyers who flew the Raphael and the Su-30.
Which fighter is really better?
Or are they equal in terms of combat capabilities?
With a price difference of three times.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Victor_B

Which fighter is really better?
Or are they equal in terms of combat capabilities?
With a price difference of three times.

These are cars of different class. Difficult to compare. "Rafale" is a good plane, only expensive.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

These are cars of different class.

Oh-b-bump!

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Victor_B

Oh-b-bump!

Drying is harder. And so, Rafal in terms of the ratio of combat load to weight - very much even very much.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Drying is harder.

That is, is it enough to be lighter than the Su-30 and this gives an advantage in battle?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Victor_B

That is, is it enough to be lighter than the Su-30 and this gives an advantage in battle?

Did I write something about the advantage? There are many factors.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Did I write something about the advantage? There are many factors.

Does it mean, in your opinion, that Rafal is UNIVERSELY superior in combat capabilities to the Su-30 of the LATEST modifications?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Victor_B

Su-30 LATEST modifications?

Does India have Su30 of different modifications?

[Victor_B]

It meant the conditions when buying.
At that time, there were already other options for Su-shek.

[KAV]

And then grandfather Biden will come and say that it would be better for the UAE to take the most democratic in the world, American Letaki, instead of French ones.
That will be a joke ...

[Pereira]

I won’t be surprised.

[Charik]

Will even please

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: KAV

grandfather Biden will come and say that it would be better for the UAE to take the most democratic in the world, American Letaki

No, he won't.
Israel is strongly opposed there.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Israel is strongly opposed there.

Outdated information.

[Roman1970_1]

And then grandfather Biden will come and say that it would be better for the UAE to take the most democratic in the world, American summer,

So the Congress forbade them to sell, so they bought it from the French. Initially they wanted f35, even Israel agreed.
So grandfather will not come, he will stay at home.

[dzvero]

The Su-30 is better compared to the F-15, and the Rafal with the MiG-35 / F-18 / Typhoon. Among the latter, Rafal looks very much even nothing.

[Victor_B]

Quote: dzvero

The Su-30 is better compared to the F-15, and the Rafal with the MiG-35 / F-18 / Typhoon. Among the latter, Rafal looks very much even nothing.

But India does not have these (le?) Like that.
So I would like to know the opinion of INDIAN pilots, which type is preferable in battle.
I believe that they had enough training battles between Rafals and Su-shki.

[dzvero]

Such infa did not come across to me.
But a long time ago I came across a confrontation between the MiG-29 and the Su-27 in Ethiopia / Eritrea. So there the heavier drying "endured" the moments without any problems. Despite the fact that the pilots were almost former classmates ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: dzvero

a long time ago I came across a confrontation between the MiG-29 and the Su-27 in Ethiopia / Eritrea. So there the heavier drying "endured" the moments without any problems. Despite the fact that the pilots were almost former classmates ...

Everything was very simple there.
Sushka's more powerful radar saw the enemy earlier, so Sushka fired first.
The same crap will be in the fight between Sushka and Rafal. The Frenchman will shoot first, and Sushka will die before he even knows where it came from.

[dzvero]

On the radars, it is about parity - both will see each other from 200 km. They will shoot ... they will shoot for sure, i.e. from 100-120 km. And there both have a chance to "dodge". Here, closer than 60 km, Raphael has a bonus in the form of a Meteor.

[OgnennyiKotik]

To achieve this "parity", more powerful radars are installed on the dryers. Emitting and receiving signals differ by orders of magnitude. Accordingly, the drying will be discovered much earlier, and then everything is in the hands of the pilot Raphael.

[dzvero]

Yes, a single powerful emitter is both an advantage and a disadvantage of PFAR.

[sportline]

Why do you think that the French will be the first to see?

[bayard]

Quote: sportline

Why do you think that the French will be the first to see?

The RCS for drying is about an order of magnitude larger, therefore, with equal capabilities of the opponents' radars, the one who has the lower RCS of the aircraft will be the first to see. Yes, and the "Meteor" at "Raphael" has a seriously longer range - up to 200 km. And this is thanks to the ramjet engine.
In this version, "Rafale" appeared later and its avionics are more perfect.
But after the modernization of the Su-30MKI to the level of SM2, with the Irbis with new engines and all-aspect nozzles, it will give an opportunity to see earlier and try to get away from Meteor.
But the Su-30MKI will take more load.

[Volkof]

Raphael has a very small radius, especially with harnesses ... and he always flies on patrols with outboard tanks. This greatly increases its visibility, but its avionics are at their best .... It is also necessary to note the high reliability of engines and equipment ... This all costs a pretty penny to the buyer ...

[bayard]

Quote: Volkof

Raphael has a very small radius, especially with pendants.

Who can argue with that? This is a light fighter, and within the radius it will never equal the heavy ones. But the avionics are really at their best, so they take it, in this case instead of the F-35, which they (the Emirates) were denied.
The non-existent Chekmet is not yet a competitor to him.

[Osipov9391]

As for the Su-30M2 with the Ukrainian N001VEP radar, its capabilities roughly correspond to the early 90s. Such planes went to China.
But those that were ordered by the Ministry of Defense were made from scratch especially for Russia. They were ordered to replace at least a little bit of a huge number of Su-27UB that had failed in terms of resource over the course of 25 years of their merciless operation. Many were in the deadly state of the Su-27UB. They were written off.
What's funny is that Irkut not only did not upgrade the existing Su-27UB, but did not even do a major overhaul!
Well, this is in those days when the Su-27SM was made.
Therefore, the fleet of combat training Su-27s was very bad. And the Su-30M2 is similar in equipment to the Su-27SM.
But in any case, this is the level of the early 90s.

[bk316]

The ESR for drying is about an order of magnitude larger,

Almost all discussions about EPR are fortune-telling on coffee grounds.
For example, the RCS of the F-35 and F-22 are declared, while the RCS of the F-22 is 10 times less.
Do you believe it?
And the SU-57's EPR is classified. And what is he like?
Raphael has a declared EPR of 1,5 squares. But this is in frontal projection in an anechoic chamber.
The Su-27 has about 12 squares.
And for the SU-30, the EPR is also classified, but according to the partners' statement there are 5 squares, but in real conditions, that is, not quite in the frontal projection and not at all in the camera.
What can be deduced from this if without speculation.
Rafal's ERP is probably noticeably less than that of the SU-30MKI (we're talking about the Indians). This will possibly give them an advantage in aerial combat, all other things being equal.

Everything. These "will shoot from afar", "will see for a long time" and so on. these are all idle speculations of sofa experts that have nothing to do with reality.

[Lucy]

I didn’t shoot, but let it go. Ask about the launch range (PR) of the R-27, and the range of capture of the PRLK from these aircraft. And a little deeper, study how the radar sight works for these aircraft, for example, in contrast to the MiG-23ml (under 4/4), in order to understand how to break the grip during the approach. And where do you find this lying on the couch, and passing the VLK (https://base.garant.ru/181227/) in the kitchen?

[Yujanin]

I believe that they had enough training battles between Rafals and Su-shki.

The last combat duel between fighters took place 40 years ago. Today, on the issue of purchasing fighters, preference is given to those combat aircraft that "see" and shoot farther than a competitor.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: dzvero

The Su-30 is better compared to the F-15, and the Rafale ...............

Su-30 with Rafal compare the same, correctly:
how much money was invested in the purchase of aircraft, and the result achieved in terms of the country's aviation capabilities.

[dzvero]

In terms of price, the price of the Su-30 will not differ much from the Rafalev one, because all the avionics will have to be changed to the western one with its price tag. Moreover, either French (competitors) or Israeli (ambush?). You can, of course, keep within 100 lamas, but what's the point? If all the proceeds go to Western companies, and the glider and engines go at cost.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: dzvero

or an Israeli (ambush?)

And what is the ambush? On the Indian Su-30MKI, for example, half of the avionics are Israeli, and so what?

[dzvero]

I meant that the customer may have an intolerance to Israeli products.

[Roman1970_1]

Not anymore. They didn't quarrel before, but now they have made friends.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: dzvero

I meant that the customer may have an intolerance to Israeli products.

There are so few of them left that you can count on one hand.
Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Pakistan and North Korea, Iraq (there are doubts) and Afghanistan. Everything.
The rest, even the Saudis, shoved their elbows into the Israeli pavilion at the arms exhibition in the UAE. There, in one day, more contracts were concluded with Arab and Muslim countries than in the entire history of Israel.

[shahor]

Quote: dzvero

Among the latter, Rafal looks very much even nothing.

Pay attention - we are talking about a modification of the F4 - the last and very wound. France itself has only a few such aircraft.

[nks]

So far 0. Standard f4 is scheduled for acceptance in 2022, and it is divided into two stages f4.1 and f4.2. f4.2 will be ready in 2025 - the UAE most likely ordered it.

[sportline]

Sukhoi are air superiority vehicles. Rafal is a percussion machine. Analog f35. The Egyptians did the same. To gain air superiority, they bought Migi, and Rafali for ground strikes.
For reference: all machines with afar are not capable of gaining air superiority. These radars perfectly illuminate targets on the ground. Very clear. But for air targets, their ability to detect targets is insignificant.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: sportline

for air targets, their ability to detect targets is insignificant.

Otkel such knowledge?

[sportline]

After reading a number of scientific articles on the principles of afar and pfar. Before that I was sure that afar is a super cool universal thing. After that, it became clear to me why our air forces were in no hurry with afar.

[dzvero]

AFAR and PFAR are twin brothers, but not identical. AFAR is more functional (even for fighters). On PFAR, you can really get similar capabilities, but much more difficult than on AFAR. And if your technology has been worked out and marketing is adjusted, then Gd himself ordered the PFAR to drive a face on a table.

[sportline]

Pfar radar works in a narrow frequency range. This allows more energy to be channeled into the strength of the signal itself. When you have a wide frequency range of radiation, the power of the beam itself is reduced. Factor of. The power plant of the aircraft, if it can give out 20 kilowatts of energy, then it will not give out 30 in any way. This is briefly about the principles of action of afar and pfar. And that is why the MiG-31 has the longest-range radar. The most powerful power plant feeds a radar with a beam at a narrow frequency range. And that is why we saw the F-22 in the sight of the Su-35, and not vice versa. Afar technology actually appeared in the 60s. And for its uselessness, it was abandoned. Ameri advanced this technology as a very cool thing, although it reduces the detection range of an aerial target by almost 2 times.
I'm not talking about some kind of fantasy. It's just physics.

[voyaka uh]

"And that's why we saw the F-22 in the sight of the Su-35, and not vice versa." ///
---
There was a distance of a couple of kilometers.
Neither pfar nor afar are needed. Look with your eyes.
F-22 flew at minimum speed, flapping its wings
("waving") so that planes from Khmeimim do not fly over
positions of the Kurds. This helped to avoid incidents.

[Volkof]

Who did it help? To you, yes! You got carried away again! What nonsense! They fly over foreign territory, illegally, like aggressors! Let them wave as you do ... This is the same if Russian planes were flying over the LPNR ... But then how much of your stench with p_ndos would be ... You are our defective, pray more so that you will not be touched yet .. .And the Russians and Iranians were invited to help P_ndo shit in the Middle East to remove, and then they will take up yours ... they will shove both him and you into the generally recognized borders ...

[Keer]

The broadband ideology can be implemented both at the AFR and at the Pension Fund of the Russian Federation, what you mean is not clear. The meaning of the story is to overcome the reduction in RCS due to geometry, and to combat narrowband suppression systems. Plus the ability to get a "portrait" image of the target.

[Avior]

And how, in the light of your reasoning, do you explain to yourself that the Su-57 and MiG-35 have radar with AFAR?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: sportline

it became clear why our air forces were in no hurry with afar

Everything is much simpler.
Our videoconferencing cannot afford them.
And they see air targets no worse than PFAR, even better.

[sportline]

Did you read this in brochure f35?))))

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: sportline

Did you read this in brochure f35?))))

No.
He taught at the institute.
We can forget what from the details. But I know the principle of action.
AFAR differs from PFAR not at all in what you just wrote, but in that not only signal reception, as in PFAR, but also radiation occurs in a narrow sector, strictly in the direction of the target. Accordingly, from the point of view of energy efficiency, it is just the more advantageous option with AFAR.
Radars are losing only because powerful solid-state radiators for the array are a very big problem. But making one large powerful generator is much easier.

[sportline]

You are not talking about pfar, but radars of the type that began to be installed on the MiG-21 from the very beginning. Where there was no phased array. Afar is active because it scans space in a wide frequency range, and pfar in a narrow one. Therefore, the beam power is much higher. Afar is very good in terms of mapping and ground targeting, but the beam power is weak. That is why the F-22 fly accompanied by an avax, which has a powerful afar.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: sportline

Afar is active because it scans space in a wide frequency range, and pfar in a narrow one.

You just got it all mixed up.
It is active because the array of emitters also works for radiation, and not only for reception, as in PFAR.
AFAR can scan over a wide range, but is not required. In this he surpasses PFAR, and some more chips.

[dauria]

It is active because the array of emitters also works for radiation, and not only for reception, as in PFAR.

The passive grid works for both transmission and reception. With a narrow beam (more precisely, beams with PCN) Same as the active one.
And the difficulty of building an AFAR is determined by two main things. First, it will not work to pack the lattice tightly into "one floor". The distance must be maintained no more than half the wavelength - for 3 cm it is 1 cm. Otherwise, the "second" main beams of the MD will appear. So you have to sculpt the modules in three floors. Second - the efficiency of semiconductor modules is low - heat removal is also another problem. It is almost necessary to lay the evaporating tubes. And the miniaturization of phase shifters on switched strips is a thankless task.
But the matter is worthwhile, if only because this road leads in the end to pure CAR (TsAFAR), because ADCs on the carrier will not appear today or tomorrow. You can't lag behind.

[sportline]

Instead of a discussion, they missed it. Handsome men!

[And Us Rat]

Quote: sportline

Instead of a discussion, they missed it. Handsome men!

Apparently the people are too lazy to refute such frank nonsense. (About AFAR and aerial targets).

[voyaka uh]

"For reference: all machines with afar are not able to gain air superiority ///"
-----
Interesting help ..
Does this mean that installing afar on the latest Su-57 is a fatal mistake?
In your opinion, he will not be able to win air supremacy with him?

[sportline]

I'm not sure that afar will appear on the SU-57.

[voyaka uh]

Expensive. One segment - $ 1000. And they need about a couple of hundred. And so that they were very compact, otherwise they would not fit into a fighter.
The Chinese have built a separate factory for afars, and now they are cheap to mold.
You can buy from them.

[sportline]

Well I do not know. The Su-57 has the main radar with pfar - for air combat. To detect the missiles of the attacking enemy, there are 4 pieces with afar. 2 on the sides of the pilot and 2 in the wings. A normal air superiority aircraft that only needs a new engine. I don't see any savings in it anywhere.
It's just that there are tasks and there is equipment for these tasks. If Rafal was given the task of building a strike machine, he released it. This car bombed Libya. In theory, the analogue of Raphal would be su75. He will have afar for ground strikes and all the other gadgets.

[voyaka uh]

Su-35 is the last modern aircraft of the 4th generation left with PFAR.
And no one is copying his scheme.
All new ones have AFARs.
And for air combat, and for shock functions. And for electronic warfare, like the F-35.
A single sending device, even if it is strong, is inflexible.
This is a flare.
This is exactly what happened in the training battle with Rafal in Egypt.
Rafal caught the Su-35 radar signal and tricked him.
With AFAR, working simultaneously in 3-4 modes, it is much more difficult to do this.

[sgrabik]

The AFAR on the Su-57 is not just already standing, it is advanced there, the emitters are spaced and built into various parts of the aircraft, so it sees targets even behind it and can respond in a timely manner to threats from behind.

[abrakadabre]

I'm not sure that afar will appear on the SU-57.

On SU-57 it is necessary to develop ROFAR too.

[Voltsky]

it's hard to argue with trolls because they have at least a thousand hours of flight time, either on drying or on rafal ... then, as usual, in a dispute with the mentally defective, you are driven into a corner and finished off with experience.

[ja-ja-vw]

Both la for war (defense)
Hardly anyone will use them.

different by class

conditions.
Why: it would be really interesting.

[sgrabik]

Rafal is a 4th generation aircraft, nothing more, it costs more than 5th generation aircraft, but despite its high cost in terms of its performance characteristics, it does not approach them, the Arabs apparently think that the more expensive the equipment costs, the more it better, but this is a very controversial statement !!!

[smoltish]

They can solve the same tasks. Therefore, it is possible to compare.

[paul3390]

The best fighter is the one with the best pilot in the cockpit. And which is more competently used. And the prodigy piloted by the salaga is worth little, and even the 3rd generation technology in skillful hands can still show itself.

Avon, say the Saudis, are pumped up with a heaped iron under their very eyebrows, and their barmaley in slippers are driving through the desert. Although it would seem ..

[Victor_B]

Quote: paul3390

The best fighter is the one with the best pilot in the cockpit.

That is, the "iron" itself is not compared to camilfo?
And the men didn’t know! (from)

[paul3390]

It is not clear - by what parameters to compare? Stupid in terms of speed and loading or what?

[knn54]

Pavel, in terms of range and duration of the flight, the "Frenchman" is certainly better.
In close combat, the more maneuverable Su-30MKI has no competitors.
At the same time, the ceiling is higher, and it is cheaper and easier to maintain.

[Vlad69]

This is with three ptb, then yes.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: knn54

In close combat, the more maneuverable Su-30MKI has no competitors.

Only in cannon combat, and only at low speeds.
Melee missiles with helmet-mounted target designation have long been able to neutralize maneuverability. There is no need to try to point your nose at the enemy, as 30 years ago, you just need to turn your head and press the start.
Super-maneuverability, however, requires low speeds, due to the limitations of human endurance for overloads. And if the enemy can afford high-speed combat on the vertical, using his thrust-to-weight ratio, like the F-15, for example, then super-maneuverability will not help, the enemy will have time to go beyond the cannon-fire distance while Sushka performs somersaults.
«Height - speed - maneuver - fire! " A.I. Pokryshkin

[sgrabik]

What does cannon fire have to do with it, for this there are air-to-air missiles for close air combat, you would have remembered about machine guns.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: sgrabik

for this there are air-to-air missiles for close air combat

Is it difficult to read the comment carefully? Too many books?
Speech should not overtake the thought process.

[Letun]

Quote: paul3390

The best fighter is the one with the best pilot in the cockpit. And which is more competently used. And the prodigy piloted by the salaga is worth little, and even the 3rd generation technology in skillful hands can still show itself.

Avon, say the Saudis, are pumped up with a heaped iron under their very eyebrows, and their barmaley in slippers are driving through the desert. Although it would seem ..

What a fresh thought! It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick.

[ja-ja-vw]

Did you compare pilots or airplanes?
What is better VW Tuareg or UAZ Patriot ?. In terms of fulfilling its function: day after day and so year3?
Gasket m / y steering wheel and seat got to do with it?
Moreover, no one asked about her.

[voyaka uh]

The Indians have two "clans" of pilots.
Those who fly the Russians praise the Russian planes, those who fly the French praise the French.
And when the pilots retire, they accordingly lobby for their own.

[ja-ja-vw]

Like no Jaguar for them?
This does not happen "praise on what they flew"
They used a lot of both F-15 and F-16 and F / A-18

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Victor_B

Rafalyah and Su-30.
Which fighter is really better?
Or are they equal in terms of combat capabilities?
With a price difference of three times.

Drying over the filling has lagged behind by a whole generation.
This is literally the last century.
No wonder the Indians are going to modernize them.
Why are there Indians, even ours realized that it was time.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Drying over the filling has lagged behind by a whole generation.
This is literally the last century.

That is, when ours competed with the Franks in the tender, the same Su-shki of the last century were offered?
Or is it already the XNUMXst century?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Victor_B

when ours competed with the Franks in the tender, were the same Su-shki of the last century offered?

MiG29 / 35 were offered.
The tender was for light fighters.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Jacket in stock

MiG29 / 35 were offered.

And Su-shki were also offered when Mig dropped out.

[Victor_B]

I think to myself, some kind of x ... Ren stuffed and slapped all my posts on the minus!
Contract!
10 pieces at a time!
However - luboff!

[ja-ja-vw]

Put +,
whatever the sausage

[sportline]

If I am not mistaken, then the terms of the contract required investing in the Indian economy 50% of the contract proceeds. I read it somewhere. Therefore, it is not known what was really the real reason for the choice of Raphael. It's not in vain that the tender lasted so long.

[sportline]

When the Chinese su-35s converge with Rafal, then we will find out, it seems)))

[Voltsky]

even the Vietnam conflict did not answer the question of who is better ...

[Voltsky]

I hope you have a Lada - Priora, but better a Lada 2101 ....

[Serg Kam]

Rafalyah and Su-30.
Which fighter is really better?
Or are they equal in terms of combat capabilities?
With a price difference of three times.

For less than half the price. 197 $ VS 112 $

12 Su-30s were sold to India for $ 1,35 billion, or $ 112 million apiece.
https://rg.ru/2020/07/02/indiia-kupit-u-rossii-istrebiteli-na-dva-milliarda-dollarov.html

[Charik]

maybe they have different equipment? Indian and Arab Rafiks.

[Orsis338]

A good year for Raphael
And Chess, which we carried in vain, turns out to be

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Orsis338

And Chess, which we carried in vain, turns out to be

When the Su-75 flies, then only such a question will arise. "Rafale" is quite a workhorse.

[Letun]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

When the Su-75 flies, then only such a question will arise. "Rafale" is quite a workhorse.

When the Su-75 flies, Rafali will already be written off

[Zaurbek]

If a serial fighter with serial weapons will begin to be delivered from 26-27 (they will only start and only plans), a question for experts: when can the Su75 be delivered under the same contract?

[lis-ik]

Quote: Zaurbek

If a serial fighter with serial weapons will begin to be delivered from 26-27 (they will only start and only plans), a question for experts: when can the Su75 be delivered under the same contract?

Can there be connoisseurs of rarities?

[Zaurbek]

There was talk about the Su35S in this tender ..... but I don’t know if it’s true .... This is the topic that the Turks have nothing to buy instead of the F-35S

[ja-ja-vw]

Is he there? Is it flying?

[abrakadabre]

A good year for Raphael
And Chess, which we carried in vain, turns out to be

Don't say gop until you jump. Proud Gauls have been broken off so many times. Even at the stage of selling products of the military-industrial complex - the story of the Mistrals. The latest submarine story for Australia is also revealing.

[zwlad]

Compensation for France for the loss of the contract with Australia at the PL?

[Kesha1980]

Thought too.

[Cat Alexandrovich]

Nope, the Americans will intercept this contract too. True, then they will again apologize to the French. Like, what are you, offended?

[Russian Bear_2]

Quite possibly.

[ja-ja-vw]

And what does India have to do with Australia?

[paul3390]

I wonder if this time the mattress toppers will glue the goat's face to the French? Still, there is a lot of money, and proud France seems to have already resigned itself to the role of terpily.

[prior]

Did Grandpa Biden approve of the deal, or will it be like with the submarines?

[Dikson]

Checkmate .. in general .. Eh, did not have time to collect the flight sample ..

[Zorro21]

Quote: Dikson

Eh, did not have time to collect the flight sample.

Even if Checkmate had an ideal flying history, it has no prospects in the external market. There are too many aggressive policies on the arms market now. Even US allies such as France were unable to resist the signing of a submarine contract to Australia.

[Dikson]

For some reason, it seems to me that our chess story with this Trojan horse was made under these bargaining ... and in our Air Force a publicized attack aircraft will not appear in general for 15 years .. Su 57 is also not in a hurry to execute it en masse?

[Zorro21]

Quote: Dikson

Su 57, too, are not in a hurry to perform en masse?

Compared with the full development cycles of aircraft of other generations, then 15 years for a new technology is normal. Moreover, Checkmate, like the Hunter UAV, is based on the technology of the T-50 project. This suggests that the Su-27 platform with its derivatives will become a thing of the past in the next 10 years.

[Dikson]

I also think that it is normal for 15 years to bring a new car to mind .. But to sell a donut hole instead of a finished military product to customers - what kind of suckers did the Rosoboronexport management count on?

[Zorro21]

In the Russian-Indian project FGFA, the "donut hole" was much larger. Moreover, each country always requires a partial transfer of technologies that make the aircraft 50% unique.

[Zaurbek]

UAE chose between F35S and Rafal

[voyaka uh]

Emirs have appetite - be healthy.
When the wallet is full, why not buy it?
They stated that Rafali was not instead of the F-35, but in addition
to them !
And Rafali is a replacement for Mirage 2000.
They say their pilots are used to the French.

[ja-ja-vw]

Two Democratic senators in the United States are hoping to postpone a potential sale of F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets to the United Arab Emirates. This is a legislative initiative that could subsequently block the supply of aircraft to Abu Dhabi.
Watching the 35 F-2020 Safe Export Act
The bill will require the White House to provide a report detailing the technical risks of selling the F-35 to any country, which is not a NATO member or not allies The United States like Japan, South Korea, Israel, Australia, or New Zealand,

[voyaka uh]

Not fundamentally ...
F-35, and so everyone is not enough.
Look, the Finns are buying a large batch of F-35s.

[ja-ja-vw]

Finns, these are finns. They will be sold .. UAE -no.

[Prisoner]

They threw a bone at Macron, Schaub forgot about the submarines.

[voyaka uh]

How the French are flooded!
Rafali are in great demand

[OgnennyiKotik]

And at horse prices. In fact, if you need an uncompromising multifunctional fighter that can gain air superiority, strike at ground and sea targets, then this is the F-35 or Rafale. Everything else is a compromise for the "poor" who cannot access these fighters, niche fighters.

[ja-ja-vw]

Sound, "horse prices"?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: ja-ja-vw

Sound, "horse prices"?

$ 195 million (€ 161 million) F35A Finland kit
$ 208M (€ 165M) F35A UAE kit
$ 144 million (€ 119 million) F35A kit Poland
$ 240 million (€ 219 million) set by Rafali India (2016)
$ 289 million (€ 262 million) Rafali Qatar kit (2015)
$ 239 million (€ 217 million) set by Raphali Egypt (2015)
$ 198 million (€ 175 million) Rafali UAE

30-50% more expensive than the F-35.

[ja-ja-vw]

And what is in the "set" then
(I didn’t even check the numbers now, the lack of time, later)?

the devil is in the details

Fools (s) no. The world of capital, the world of Adam, Smith who.

[OgnennyiKotik]

The US State Department has approved the likely delivery of 64 F-35 aircraft to Finland for $ 12,5 billion, ($ 195 million / € 161 million]

This is what is included in the Finnish offer besides the aircraft (this offer, the contract has not been concluded):

Sixty six (66) Pratt & Whitney F-135 engines (64 installed and 2 spare); five hundred (500) GBU-53 / B Small Diameter Bomb II (SDB II) All-Up Round (AUR); twelve (12) GBU-53 / B SDB II guided test vehicles (GTV); twelve (12) GBU-53 / B SDB II Captive Carry Vehicles (CCV); one hundred fifty (150) Sidewinder AIM-9X Block II + (Plus) tactical missiles; thirty two (32) Sidewinder AIM-9X Block II + (Plus) captive Air training missiles (catms); thirty (30) AIM-9X Block II + (Plus) Sidewinder Tactical Guidance units; Eight (8) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder CATM Guidance units one hundred (100) tactical missiles AGM-154C-1 Joint Stand Off Weapon (JSOW-C1); two hundred (200) Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile-Extended Range (JASSM-ER) AGM-158B-2; two (2) AGM-158B-2 JASSM-ER Separation Test Vehicles; two (2) AGM-158B-2 JASSM-ER Instrumentated Test Vehicles; two (2) AGM-158B-2 JASSM-ER Jettison Test Vehicles; two (2) inert sets of JASSM AGM-158B-2 with intelligent telemetry devices; two (2) AGM-158 training missile dummies; one hundred twenty (120) KMU-556 JDAM guidance kits for GBU-31; three hundred (300) fmu-139D / B fuses; Two (2) KMU-556 (D-2) / B Trainer JDAM guidance kits for GBU-31; thirty (30) KMU-557 JDAM guidance kits for GBU-31; one hundred fifty (150) KMU-572 JDAM guidance kits for GBU-38/54; one hundred twenty (120) BLU-117, general purpose bombs; thirty two (32) BLU-109, general purpose bomb; one hundred fifty (150) BLU-111, general purpose bomb; six (6) MK-82, inert bomb; one (1) fmu-139d / B (D-1) inert fuse.
Electronic warfare systems; command, control, communications, computer and intelligence / communications, navigation and identification (C4I / CNI); Autonomous Logistics Global Support System (ALGS); integrated operational data network (ODIN); air system training devices; the possibility of using weapons and other subsystems, functions and capabilities; unique infrared flashes F-35; access to the reprogramming center; logistics based on the performance of the F-35; software development / integration; support for air ferries and tankers; Laser detector DSU-38A / B, laser detector DSU-38A (D-2) / B, KMU-572 (D-2) / B simulator (JDAM), 40-inch wing release line; GBU-53 / B SDB II Weapon Load Crew Simulators (WLCT); GBU-53 / B SDB II practical explosive ordnance disposal system (PEST) simulators; AGM-154C-1 JSOW captured aircraft; AGM-154C-1 JSOW air missile training dummies; AGM-154C-1 JSOW mission planning, integration and testing support, ammunition storage security and training, weapons operational flight program software development; integration of a joint strike missile; containers with weapons; aircraft and ammunition support and test equipment; communication equipment; supply, spare parts and repair parts; support for the repair and return of weapons; staff training and training equipment; weapons systems software, publications and technical documents; engineering, technical, and logistics services for the US government and contractors; and other related items of logistics and software.

[ja-ja-vw]

This is roughly what I know) read: here myself.
But to the "horse prices" for Rafali, the delivery set for the F-35 has .... Yes, it has nothing to do with it.
I recall:

Rafali are in great demand

And at horse prices

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: ja-ja-vw

read: here myself

So I posted it for a long time.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Rafali are in great demand


And at horse prices

Excellent fighters, unambiguously the best among the 4th generation, are now being sold. Everything else is worse. The EF can only argue for the title of the best, but it seems the consortium is not interested in this. That's the price.

[nks]

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/qatar-france-sign-1bn-fighter-jet-deal-amid-gulf-crisis-1784950

Qatar announced Thursday a deal to buy 12 French-built Rafale fighter jets ...
The 1.1-billion-euro ($ 1.3-billion) order,

Do not confuse the price of the package (the composition, which can be very different and the cost of the aircraft itself.rafale costs about 100 million and in the full life cycle it is much cheaper than the f-35 (this can be seen upon careful study of real contracts and American reports)

[Fisherman]

A scam, like with the Indians ... Rafale is not delivered according to the schedule, the French are constantly pushing back the schedule by 1-2-3 years and reducing the number of handed over cars, even for themselves they do not have time to produce according to the plan. I agree with those who have already written - this is most likely a fiction of compensation for submarines from an overseas old man, at whose behest the Arabs signed up for another scrap metal, which they already have crammed bases with. They themselves do not plan to fight on them, and for Rafali's mercenaries, familiar vehicles can be useful, even if very late and very little.

[donavi49]

Just a list of Raphael in 2021:
Greece signed a contract for the purchase of 18 French Dassault Rafale fighters worth 2,4 billion euros in January and the first has already been delivered.

Croatia signed a contract for the purchase of 12 Dassault Rafale fighters

Egypt has acquired another 30 Rafale fighters. On April 26, 2021, France signed a new package of contracts for the supply of 30 additional Dassault Rafale fighters to Egypt for a total of 3,95 billion euros.

Well, the United Arab Emirates - France 80 cars for 16 billion euros.

To this it is worth adding:
Indonesia signed agreement of intent acquire 36 French Dassault Rafale fighters.

Total for the year 140 aircraft and 36 under the agreement of intent.

[Fisherman]

you praised them excellently, but they stupidly do not have time to produce them for themselves, and foreign customers have been waiting for years for delayed execution of orders. Post a better schedule of non-fulfillment of orders for Rafal - this is more relevant information for us than a "carrot" for the French in the form of a list of contracts. As the experience of the Mistrals and submarines has shown, both the French sent them, so anyone can send them with their contracts, if the political situation requires, and the terms for which the French schedule their execution of contracts do not allow predicting the world configuration of forces and the actions of governments.

[donavi49]

Well, when they fail and there is a refusal from the contract, then come.

Delays are generally the norm. And ROE is constantly indulging. And, if you remember India, then:
Signed January 20 2004 years The agreement provided for the allocation of USD 974 million for the restoration and modernization of the TAVKR and USD 530 million for the supply of 16 MiG-29K fighters and Ka-31 and Ka-27 anti-submarine helicopters. The ship was to be delivered to the customer at the end of 2008.

16 November 2013 g... the solemn transfer of the aircraft carrier to the Indian Navy took place.

[Fisherman]

have been failing for a long time already, and you at least miss the point, but this will not make your position correct.

[donavi49]

I don’t minus. And I repeat, only terminated contracts are important. Despite the delays, they are not terminated. Kidok with submarines is politics and the redistribution of vassals.

[Fisherman]

here I admit you are right ... to terminate the contract would incur the wrath of the Master of the Potomac, but here the Arabs have little guts.

[donavi49]

Egypt. The previous president was friends with Egypt and made a reserve of 15-20 billion euros in contracts. Macron traveled to Egypt and began to talk about human rights, the dictatorship of Sisi, etc. After that, Egypt stopped negotiations on FREMM, canceled the option on Govinda, stopped negotiations on the satellite, and gave up helicopters. In total, contracts for 8-9 billion euros were canceled for 2020.

As a result, Italian destroyers were purchased (delivered), German destroyers (under construction), Italian helicopters, and an Italian satellite is being made for Egypt.

Only at the age of 21 did numerous apologies, attempts to hush up the conflict, etc. somehow unfreeze contract negotiations. However, in fact, 30 Raphales (for which the current commander-in-chief of the Air Force was very concerned) is all that the French could squeeze out of the pie, because the other has already been given to other hands.

[Fisherman]

moreover, the French supplied arms to Egypt on loans ... from the Saudis. They, too, were dissatisfied with the lawlessness of the Muslim brothers and did not want to get them for themselves, while the "brothers" were pushed by the West to lead Egypt.

[shahor]

Quote: donavi49

wow 140 aircraft per year

You do not take into account that a significant part of the aircraft - Greece, Croatia - are supplied from the presence of the French Air Force. Those. boo.

[nks]

Quote: donavi49

Total for the year 140 aircraft

The Greeks ordered 6 more - they have 24 in total, and the Dassos have 146 in a year :)

[Vlad69]

And over time, it may well be in Egypt entiraphali.

[donavi49]

Egypt has 24 of its own Raphael and 30 more in the contract.

[nks]

They think more, besides the already ordered 54 :)

[ja-ja-vw]

Maybe simpler: the plane is good?

[konstantin68]

They threw a bone from the master's shoulder to the French so that they would not cry for the submarines.
Of course, they know how to solve issues with the hands of their vassals.

[shahor]

Quote: konstantin68

Threw the French a bone from the master's shoulder

The bone is 18 green yards, this is not a soup set for you. And enough for frying ... I think Lockheed sighs heavily ... The Russian KLA is choking on saliva.

[Freedim]

And where have we fought for air supremacy lately? .. Since the days of the Falkland Islands, only Pakistanis and Indians have bitten like .. That is, the "Rafala" is supposed to be used exclusively as a bomber .. Not the best option.

[voyaka uh]

It was not - does not mean that it cannot be.
There have been no naval battles for a long time either, but ships are stamped like nails by all and sundry

[ja-ja-vw]

After 1991, when Iraq lost 33 cars in air battles with coalition planes. In response, according to the CSBA, the Iraqi Air Force shot down just one coalition plane (F-18)
Even in the last stages of the first Gulf War, many Iraqi pilots preferred to fly to Iran to avoid certain death, which was not an easy decision, considering the recent brutal war between Iran and Iraq.
in 2011, when NATO forces invaded Libya to support the uprising against Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, the country's air force (not sickly by the way): they didn't even show their nose.
Conclusions are made by everyone himself, to the best of his ability

[75 Sergey]

Here is check and checkmate for you!

[spirit]

Here is check and checkmate for you!

The UAE is a purely western-oriented country, from laws (English law) to trade. They will never buy chess

[shahor]

Quote: spirit

They will never buy chess

So why are we taking them to Dubai, asking for investment for development?

[Dikson]

Obviously, so, they skated for a clean rest .. And no one will buy a beautiful model with incomprehensible characteristics instead of flying and proven technology .. - is it stupid? They hoped to use money to maintain their pants .. - it didn't work ..

[tralflot1832]

There will be elections in France in 2022, if Eric Zemur wins, Europe will shudder and accuse us. It will be SHAH AND MAT, and no Su 75 is needed.

[Cyop_TyMyc]

Why is Rafale better than the Su-30 ???
One motor, one wing and that's it?))

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Cyop_TyMyc

Why is Rafale better than the Su-30 ???

Twice as easy. Accordingly, more economical.
Signature is several times smaller.
Radar and all other next generation electronics.
And most importantly, from a politically correct supplier.

[donavi49]

There are still 2 motors in Rafal.

Well, better - stealth (it is the most inconspicuous in a generation), advanced avionics, AFAR radar, various means of ASP - including those that have been stored in the UAE for 30 years, in fact, any western ammunition can be used from Raphael, but not from Su ...

I’m already silent that the US and the developed world are getting sanctions behind the Su trailer.

[CommanderDIVA]

Rafael is an unjustifiably expensive fourth-generation aircraft with a plus, the optimal choice for the UAE would still be the F 35, in my opinion it is cheaper at a price

[voyaka uh]

Emirs and F-35 are going to buy in addition to Rafals.
And, perhaps, they will receive them even earlier: the American plant is practically a 24 × 365 assembly line, and the French one is piece by piece.

[Glagol1]

The striped ones were allowed to do this in order to catch up with Australian submarines. Well, they helped the Jew, they strongly objected to the F-35. The amount is wild, but these rich, they don't care. Big hello to the checkmate, he shouldn't have gotten to this country anyway, now he certainly won't. Rafali will close the skies until the 2050s. Although, by this time it will rather become obsolete. But 80 pcs. it's straight from the heart.

[donavi49]

The most fun contracting is Qatar. The peninsula surrounded by enemies (the UAE and the Saudis really want to enter right up to Doha) is the only reliable ally, although it sent the Janissaries with the Bayraktar and the fleet, but it is still far away. So they spin as they can:
36 Rafaley

36 forward F-15QA

24 British Eurofighter of fresh modification

Well, 4 Italian corvettes + 4 Italian PSKR

[Andrey83]

Well, let's say 200ml. For the plane, I can still understand. A 100ml. For a helicopter, is that okay?

[Teador]

Quote: KAV

And then grandfather Biden will come and say that it would be better for the UAE to take the most democratic in the world, American Letaki, instead of French ones.
That will be a joke ...

Be careful in the news. They buy the F35 too .. as for Rafaeli, they are sorted out like hot cakes in spite of the price. To see a really good car

[hostel]

The price is simply exorbitant. But the Arabs know better

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

it’s not evening now the amers will come up with something

[Fedor Sokolov]

This is a gesheft of the Americans, with the aim of making amends for the French kiddok with an Australian contract.

[Cyop_TyMyc]

The French can throw araps at the first jump;))

[TermNachTer]

airplanes of the 4th generation, 200 lamas of green, apiece - you still need to look for such suckers)))

[Skipper]

the Americans threw a bone of favor to the French for the PL for Australia - they gave the go-ahead to the Arabs to sign a contract.

[orlandoche]

Quote: Victor_B

It would be extremely curious to know the opinion of the Indian flyers who flew the Raphael and the Su-30.

Well yes , Indians are still flyers

[iouris]

After a similar appeal to France, the "dictator" Gaddafi, having studied the delivery time, sent a steamer with gold to Odessa, and after a week he had 40 Russian planes.

[AC130 Gunship]

About 2 weeks ago, everyone was sucking on the fake news that Sukhoi pushed the French aside and the UAE was about to buy a plane from them, made of plastic in full size

[Charik]

I hope that they were again thrown hard, like the Americans with PLCs.

[garik77]

After half a year, we learn that a more important ally came and said - noxer, he is buying a Fu-35!

[Reserve buildbat]

They know how to vparivat paddling ... "Rafale" is not a fountain, although it is a very decent device, But the price ... I wonder how many lamas Eureka will fall into the pockets ...