Military Review

The history of the uniform. Uniform as a system of signs

129

"Daniel Rantzau captures the Turbi Bridge in Scania during the Seven Years' War 1563-1570."

The picture shows us a typical "transition period" battle from the era of chivalry to mercenary and national armies. Cuirassiers and spearmen are fighting in the center of the picture. Dragoons in leather jackets (on the right) shoot at men at arms with pistols. The infantry, led by officers in high hats and scarves over their shoulders, is hurrying across the bridge. Christian Holm (1804-1846).
State Museum of Art, Copenhagen

Of blue, purple and scarlet wool
they made service clothes,
to serve in the sanctuary;
also made sacred garments for Aaron,
as the Lord commanded Moses.
Exodus 39: 1


History uniforms. As you can see, already in ancient times, and the Bible was written a long time ago, people distinguished between ordinary clothes from "service", which distinguished those dressed in it from the crowd. And today we will begin another series of articles, continuing the theme of "the history of clothing", a cycle entirely devoted to the history of military uniforms, that is, uniforms.

By the way, the very word "uniform", meaning uniform clothing, has been used in relation to army clothing for only about two centuries, however, in its current understanding, uniforms appeared at least a hundred years before that: in most European armies, it received a universal distribution at the turn of the XVII-XVIII centuries.

The history of the uniform. Uniform as a system of signs
The uniform can be considered the robes of the knights of spiritual orders ... Still from the movie "The Crusaders" (1960)


And priests - monks, priests and cardinals. For example, how simple but tasteful the vestments of Cardinal Richelieu looked. Shot from the movie "The Three Musketeers" (1961)

If you look even further into the past and expand the concept of uniforms, speaking of military clothing in general, you will notice that some, characteristic only of people who wear weapon, the clothing culture has existed since time immemorial. One of its criteria is the use of a certain common sign adopted only in a given army.

But we will not talk about the ancestors of modern uniforms for now, but we will begin our story just from the end of the XNUMXth century, when combat units began to appear in the armies of different countries, dressed in suits of the same cut and color.


Armor of the harquebusier of 1638. Well, most likely, this is not the armor of an ordinary shooter, but the armor of an officer, made to order. Nevertheless, even then a camisole made of durable leather was worn under them. And in it it was quite possible to fight without armor! Royal Arsenal, Leeds

First of all, it should be noted that the presence of common insignia is characteristic not only of military clothing.

For example, the pantaloons of sans-culottes (fr. Sans-culottes; lit .: without short pants), fighters of the Great French Revolution, at that time served as just such a sign, distinguishing them from aristocrats who wore culottes - short pants made of expensive fabric, and looked out from under them stockings. A similar role was played by the beggarly bag in the Dutch revolution of the XNUMXth century or the armbands of the Petrograd Red Guards.

These examples are associated with turning historical events, however, signs that are a symbolic expression of group consciousness, belonging to a particular community, as an everyday phenomenon, are ubiquitous today, for example, "orange vests" in France.

By the way, it was France that excelled in the creation of uniformly dressed soldiers. Back in 1600, King Henry IV started a company of "carabinieri" from the nobility, armed with light carbines, which became his personal guard. In 1622, by order of King Louis XIII, carbines were replaced with long-barreled muskets, after which the Guardsmen were called “Musketeers of the Royal Military House” or simply “Royal Musketeers”.


French royal musketeer 1660
Illustration from the book V. Vuksic, Z. Grbasic. "Cavalry. The history of fighting elite 650BC – AD1914 ”London, Cassell, 1994. P. 133


The king's musketeers versus the cardinal's guards (essentially the same musketeers with the same functions). The red color of the guardsmen's cloaks was adopted by analogy with the color of the cardinal's mantle. A simple white cross is a symbol of faith. Note that they are wearing stockings, not boots. Why do they need boots if they are in the city? They were being worn when going on horseback!
Rice. Graham Turner

The musketeers' uniform was a short azure cloak with silver braids and white crosses sewn on it both in front and behind, and on its side blades. These crosses were of velvet, with embroidered golden royal lilies at the ends and scarlet trefoils in the crosshairs. Horses of gray color (or rather, white or gray in apples) gave the name "gray musketeers".

There were also "black musketeers" (after the color of the horses assigned to them in 1663). The armament consisted of a musket with a bipod, a sword, a broadsword (for fighting in equestrian ranks), a pair of pistols, a dagger (a dagger for the left hand) and a buffalo leather sling with cartridges, a powder flask, a sack for bullets and a spare wick. Well, after the appearance of the baginet, this set was also included. At the same time, the treasury gave the musketeers only a musket, while other weapons and equipment, including a horse and a servant, the musketeer had to buy or hire on his own.


Fashion changed - the uniform of the royal musketeers also changed ... This is how they looked at the end of the XNUMXth century.
Rice. Graham Turner

So, in 1673, the Musketeers received gold braids in the first company and silver ones in the second. And in 1677 they were dressed in red uniforms with gold or silver braids and black leather boots. The hat was also black with white ostrich feathers. But in 1688, the characteristic azure Cossack raincoats were replaced by the supervests of the same color (sleeveless jackets worn over the uniform).


Musketeers in superwests. Rice. Graham Turner

In fact, these were lightly armed horse archers who guarded the king's person during his exits and walks, and also accompanied him in those campaigns in which he personally participated. Subsequently, the form of the royal musketeers changed several times, following the general fashion, but they were finally abolished only in the era of the Restoration, that is, under Louis XVIII, in 1816!


Black Musketeers in Everyday Uniform, engraving by F.D.N. Dieudonne, 1815

In clothes of this type, a kind of conscious principle manifests itself, but this is by no means identical with normativity. If the issues related to this uniform or differing only in a certain general sign of clothing, for the purpose of its codification, the power begins to be dealt with, more or less dependent on which the group of people wearing this clothing is, defining this clothing or any of its details as mandatory for each member of this group, the first characteristic signs of uniforms begin to appear in the clothes.


Changing the shape of the royal musketeers from 1660 to 1814.
Fig. Charles Werner (1831-1887)


The uniform of the Polish "winged hussars" was also very characteristic. Approximately the same "three-quarter armor" was generally similar for them, "leopards" - the skin of a leopard, or even a tiger, was considered an indispensable attribute of a "real hussar". But the most important form element was the “wings” with feathers. It is known that 3 Polish hussars, equipped in this way, distinguished themselves in the battle of Vienna in 000!
Illustration from the book V. Vuksic, Z. Grbasic. "Cavalry. The history of fighting elite 650BC – AD1914 ”London, Cassell, 1994. P. 133


The attack of the "winged hussars" looked very impressive!
Still from the movie "With Fire and Sword" (1999)

The stronger the dependence on the legislative intentions of the authorities, which at first has a pronounced economic nature, and then gives rise to ideology, the more obvious are the external signs of the unification of the suit. These types of clothing of various groups, defined in the normative order, acquire a sign of durability and, due to their ideological conditioning, are less dependent on the changeable fashion of the time. The members of this group thus get out of the "competition" taking place in the society in outfits.

This degree of normativity manifested itself, for example, already in the clothing of knightly and monastic orders of the Middle Ages, becoming evidence that uniformity in clothing was the privilege of not only armies.

On the other hand, military clothing, although outwardly it really is a uniform, is by no means the result of volitional decisions alone - to a much greater extent, it becomes the result of adaptation to objective requirements.


There was at that time a certain arbitrariness in the choice of a military "suit". For example, these "three-quarter armor" were worn by German horsemen. Just creepy, isn't it?
Vienna Imperial Armory.
Photo by the author


It is interesting that the same armor in the XVI-XVII centuries. belonged to the spearmen, the only difference was in the presence of a spear hook on the cuirass. But their numbers were rapidly dwindling.
Vienna Imperial Armory

If in other uniformized groups common insignia are to a certain extent the product of arbitrary choice, then in the army the use of insignia is caused by the urgent needs of war: the ability to orientate during battle, distinguish between one's own and opponents - these are elementary requirements for the military of all countries, peoples and eras.

When a certain level of organization is reached, the whole clothing or most of its elements can become a symbol.

In irregular military formations, as, indeed, in the army itself, from a practical point of view, insignia and identification are sufficient, which are used only during battle. It can be either a piece of clothing of a certain color, or a family coat of arms, like the knights of the Middle Ages, or even a banner that played such a role already in the Roman legions.

The use of the coat of arms in military clothing was reflected in the etymology of the German word "Waffenrock" (uniform). No matter how natural the combination of its two parts may look, the first of them does not hide "die Waffe" (weapon), but "das Wappen" (coat of arms), which was depicted on a mantle or tunic worn over the armor. The orange-red belt introduced by Wallenstein in the Austrian army during the Thirty Years' War, as well as the cockades on helmets that appeared in the French army in the XNUMXth century, should also be considered as battle identification marks.

It was at this time that they began to be divided into musketeers and spear-pikemen. The Musketeers did not wear armor, but could wear helmets, although most preferred wide-brimmed hats, again in the fashion of the time. The uniform of the pikemen was a cuirass with legguards, a morion helmet or a cabasset. The heavy cavalry was divided into cuirassiers, reitars and spearmen. As already noted, the skin of a leopard, lion or tiger thrown over the shoulders instead of a cloak gave the Polish hussars a particularly warlike look ...


This illustration shows examples of early uniforms from the first half of the XNUMXth century (from left to right): a Polish winged hussar, a cabasset helmet (below), a horseman's spear, a musket stand (forket) and a musket itself, a musketeer on the bottom left, a pikeman on the right.
Foster G., Hoch P., Muller R. "Uniformen europaischer Armeen" VEB, Berlin, 1978. P. 55

The formation of the uniform was facilitated by the specific practice established throughout Europe in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, which consisted in the fact that local authorities (feudal lords, cities, nobility) billed more or less significant detachments of troops for the sovereign, who received uniforms in a centralized manner. Part of the salaries of the soldiers equipped in this way was spent on their clothing.

For example, foot and horse troops exhibited by Nuremberg in honor of the local ruler had a red and white uniform. Although these units had clothes of the same colors and styles, their choice was still random, depending on material capabilities and fashion. But the very custom of centralized purchases and supplies of individual military units, which finally took shape during the Thirty Years War, became the basis for such a practice of the XNUMXth century already in relation to the entire army.

During the Thirty Years' War, the appearance of the soldier continued to be standardized, although the general impoverishment of the last years of the war showed the opposite trend. Now the military costume of almost all soldiers consisted of leather jackets, flowing collars, wide trousers and a felt hat with wide brim.


The officer shown in this picture has a characteristic appearance from the era of the Thirty Years War. The officers were usually dressed like soldiers, but their jackets and trousers were more sumptuously decorated with braids. True, the soldiers had to pay for the clothes for the most part themselves, but officers and regimental commanders now more and more often began to purchase uniforms for their troops in bulk, which led to an even greater standardization of clothing. Next to him is a typical cuirassier from the era of the Thirty Years War. The three swords painted here belong to the late XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries. The last in the row is the Polish saber - the beginning of the XNUMXth century.
Foster G., Hoch P., Muller R. "Uniformen europaischer Armeen" VEB, Berlin, 1978. P. 57

One of the differences of that time was the multi-colored sashes and scarves over the shoulder. They were white, red, orange ...

To be continued ...
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  1. hohol95
    hohol95 16 December 2021 18: 22
    +10
    That way, in a couple of articles, it will come to the domestic archers ...
    I hope ...
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2021 18: 38
      +8
      Quote: hohol95
      That way, in a couple of articles, it will come to the domestic archers ...
      I hope ...

      Not in a couple, but it will definitely come, but how ...
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 16 December 2021 19: 02
        +9
        Vyacheslav, good evening!
        Is this the surprise you promised?
        Even if it’s not him, it’s still a very interesting topic. smile
        1. kalibr
          16 December 2021 19: 13
          +10
          No, dear Constantine. I promised a material about weapons. And I already wrote, already under moderation ...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 16 December 2021 19: 58
            +11
            I promised a material about weapons


            "Weathered steel glistens,
            Chaining fears to myself.
            It seems like a steppe distance
            And semicircular swings.
            She sees a flash of banners
            And the sabers are the reflections of the repulsed ones,
            The fame of the lost names
            And the dust of unknown names. "(A. Vostryakov)

      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 16 December 2021 20: 08
        +5
        ..... The records of the Englishman V. Parry, dating from 1599, make it possible to state unequivocally that at the end of the 500th century the Moscow archers had a uniform uniform. Here is what he writes: "... the guard, which was all horse, numbering 1606 people, dressed in red caftans ...". Whether it was uniform and cut, we do not undertake to assert, but here is a description of the Russian archers, given in 1000 by a certain Paerli: "... Moscow archers on foot were lined up in two rows up to XNUMX people in red cloth caftans with a white sling on their chest. .. "......
        http://www.russianrevolution.narod.ru/rusi/strelzi.htm
    2. LisKat2
      LisKat2 16 December 2021 19: 33
      +4
      She herself wanted to say that soon the Russian archers will be
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 16 December 2021 20: 09
        +4
        Sagittarius - red, green yellow caftans, fur-trimmed hats and reeds.
        1. kalibr
          17 December 2021 07: 26
          +5
          Quote: hohol95
          Sagittarius - red, green yellow caftans, fur-trimmed hats and reeds.

          Everything will be detailed!
  2. vladcub
    vladcub 16 December 2021 18: 37
    +7
    Comrades, sheer chicardos: Valery and Berthier, and now V. O "rammed" the uniform!
    But I am just summing up, what will happen tomorrow? No matter how we have to become cows. And two or three days to "chew" the old
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2021 18: 46
      +9
      Tomorrow will be better than yesterday!
      1. LisKat2
        LisKat2 16 December 2021 19: 34
        +4
        Yesterday was complete boredom
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 16 December 2021 20: 15
          +7
          Why would it? And an article about Hitler's yacht? Everyone will find on the site something interesting to him.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 16 December 2021 20: 39
            +3
            By God, I didn’t see it, I wasn’t on the site yesterday, but what is it called?
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 17 December 2021 06: 32
              +3
              "A cricket for a scoundrel." good
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 17 December 2021 07: 48
                +2
                Thank. I will see
        2. Fat
          Fat 18 December 2021 01: 46
          0
          Complete boredom is always! But sometimes an idea flashes and the theme has no end! Shall we figure it out in a couple of seasons?
          I do not think!
    2. depressant
      depressant 16 December 2021 19: 05
      +9
      What do you mean - "cows"? We will always find something to discuss)))
      Wondering how the robot reacts to the word "cow"? Isn't it an insult? And then suddenly ... You never know ... I, for example, am already afraid wassat )))
      1. Fat
        Fat 18 December 2021 01: 53
        +1
        If it was possible to spill and passed - the AI ​​(bot) did not note any rudeness. Another thing is the name ... E ..- Manuel - this will not work for sure. If merged
  3. Andrey Moskvin
    Andrey Moskvin 16 December 2021 18: 50
    +4
    And these "wings" didn't stop the Polish hussars from waving their sabers?
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2021 19: 14
      +8
      Obviously not in the way. They were behind ...
      1. depressant
        depressant 16 December 2021 19: 45
        +8
        I used to think that the "flying hussar squadron" is such a literary image, well, they say, they jump quickly, sweep past like the wind. They fly, in a word. Well, maybe so. But it turns out there are historical roots)))

        Approximately the same "three-quarter armor" was generally similar for them, "leopards" - the skin of a leopard, or even a tiger, was considered an indispensable attribute of a "real hussar". But the most important form element was the “wings” with feathers. It is known that 3 Polish hussars, equipped in this way, distinguished themselves in the battle of Vienna in 000!

        And how many leopards and tigers were killed!
        1. kalibr
          16 December 2021 19: 57
          +5
          Quote: depressant
          And how many leopards and tigers

          People are generally big brutes. Beasts, under the thin shell of civilization.
          1. depressant
            depressant 16 December 2021 20: 25
            +4
            Vyacheslav Olegovich, I cannot but agree. I remember when I first "penetrated" your articles, on the one hand, grumpily, and on the other, timidly, laid out my naive understanding of how society works. They say that the population singles out from itself leaders-suggestors, sixes for the maintenance of the law, protection, and other needs - security officials and bureaucrats, as well as messiahs who develop and support moral laws, pulling down everyone, including suggestionors and sixes, so that, therefore, moral laws are observed ... How naive it seems to me now ...
            But only three years have passed. M-dya ...
            1. kalibr
              17 December 2021 07: 17
              +2
              Quote: depressant
              But only three years have passed

              Yes, we are all going through a kind of university here. And I have learned so much since I started writing here ... It's just horror, how much I have read ... and what I thought about.
              1. Fat
                Fat 18 December 2021 02: 11
                0
                It's true! It is wonderful!.
                "I learned so many new words ..." (C)
                Yes, you are right, without a doubt, well, there was strength, you shovel a lot of useful information. Pearls happen just as likely as rubbish.
          2. No name B
            No name B 17 December 2021 01: 50
            +3
            I wonder where did they get the skins of leopards, tigers and lions? Did you order from Africa or did you go hunting there yourself at that time?
            1. kalibr
              17 December 2021 07: 19
              +2
              Hardly went. There were enemies there. But nobody canceled the bargaining. And where do we get so many Turkish weapons in the Armory? And it is also recorded there how some samples got there - they bought them.
          3. Fat
            Fat 18 December 2021 02: 01
            0
            hi In general, not very many animals were killed in these centuries, but rather a legacy.
        2. Andrey Moskvin
          Andrey Moskvin 16 December 2021 20: 04
          +5
          Maybe that's where the fake fur came from? Where is Poland, and where are leopards with tigers ... lol
          1. LisKat2
            LisKat2 16 December 2021 21: 24
            +4
            And, after all, this can be: delivering so many leopards to Poland is not a passing light. Taking into account the "safety" on the roads of that time, it would be a little expensive
          2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 16 December 2021 20: 25
          +7
          how many leopards
          In Cape Town, they rummage through the garbage cans in search of food. So everything is through with them. In London, by the way, foxes do this.
          1. depressant
            depressant 16 December 2021 20: 31
            +6
            I happened to read that in Israel, wild animals also began to roam the streets of cities when the quarantine began.
            That's it, my battery is running out, I put it on charge wassat )))
            1. Pentacle
              Pentacle 20 December 2021 14: 02
              +1
              Wild boars in Haifa and further north. And mongooses, and without any quarantine, dart around the parks. By the way, they are not small, they will be larger than a Cocker Spaniel.
            2. Pentacle
              Pentacle 20 December 2021 14: 04
              +1
              And we have no leopards left. There was one in the Negev, but the huntsmen had not seen him for 5 years.
          2. Andrey Moskvin
            Andrey Moskvin 16 December 2021 20: 33
            +5
            And in Mexico - jerboas. laughing
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 16 December 2021 20: 40
              +6
              A friend of mine lived there, and he told me that the local leopers, instead of hunting for gathering, went good And I constantly see foxes in London - they take away the garbage cans, smelling the food. People are not afraid at all.
        4. vladcub
          vladcub 16 December 2021 21: 09
          +6
          "leopards and tigers were killed" at the end about borzels, Greta Thunberg is not on them
        5. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 16 December 2021 21: 15
          +9
          Quote: depressant
          And how many leopards and tigers were killed!

          It seems to me that most of these same tigers, passed through the item "Mexican jerboa".
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 16 December 2021 23: 17
            +5
            It is indicated that the spades and animal spades for the hussars were paid centrally!
            Captain of the unit or by the Polish king himself!
            Lynx and bear skins were also used!
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 17 December 2021 09: 03
              +5
              Quote: hohol95
              It is indicated that the spades and animal spades for the hussars were paid centrally!

              To paraphrase the classic - I believe in the honesty of the quartermasters and the incorruptibility of the sentries :)))
              Quote: hohol95
              Lynx skins were also used

              Why isn't a tiger for you?
              [Center]
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 17 December 2021 09: 28
                +4
                They say that the peak cost 9 zlotys. An ordinary hussar received from 9 to 17 zlotys per month.
                They broke the peak in one fight a lot. And sometimes they just ended. Then only attack with broadswords and sabers.
                At that time, both a lynx and a bear could still be hunted. And the "exotic" tigers and leopards must have been brought through the Ottoman Empire!
                1. Senior seaman
                  Senior seaman 17 December 2021 10: 08
                  +8
                  Quote: hohol95
                  They say that the peak cost 9 zlotys.

                  HM. The point is that the hussar lance is quite an exclusive thing. It is longer than a knight's lance, and to achieve this it is hollow and, of course, you cannot do this on your knee. Therefore, one cannot do without some centralized supplies. But...
                  They are actually different hussars. There were royal, so-called quartz, and there were magnates, who created the Polish rich in their private armies. And, of course, show-off in this case is more expensive than money, and here all the different Vishnevetskys and Sobesskys did not spare them.
                  It's a little different with the crown ones. If a captain who received a certificate to form a banner was rich enough to buy a sufficient number of "Shanghai leopards" for the "comrades", this is one thing. If not, sorry will be "jerboa". But in both cases, comrades, this is the first rank. the other two are postal. And for the postal ones, who go into battle in the same way, no one will go broke for tiger skins.
                  And again, in the XNUMXth century, during the heyday of the Commonwealth (but before the Flood), the Poles could afford a lot (there are fewer Lithuanians), but after the decline of the state began, the decline of its armed forces began. Therefore, speaking of the hussars and their equipment, it is always not bad to specify the historical period. hi
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 17 December 2021 10: 25
                    +5
                    If you wish to be beautiful - go to the hussars!
                    Your words about the equipment and appearance of the prosperity and decline of the country and, accordingly, its army can be applied to any country that has experienced "rise and fall". Since the Roman Empire!
                    So is the Polish hussaria.
                    Some in skins and with a lance, some with a bare metal cuirass and broadsword in hand!
                    Many elements "died off" themselves as unnecessary, many because of the high cost!
                    And in times of global wars, like the Thirty Years, there was a simple reduction in price for the sake of mass. More and cheaper to produce and not regret the lost equipment later!
                    In the Russian Empire in 1910, they adopted the last sample of a cavalry pike!
                    With an eye on the German model.
                    The wooden shaft was replaced with a steel pipe.
                    Probably the big ranks who took this lance into service were proud of themselves!
                    Until we found out that there is no factory in the Empire capable of producing the required steel pipe !!!
                    And the pipe for the production of these peaks was ordered in Germany ...
                    Did you fight a lot with those peaks in the First World War?
                    Only in the first period, when maneuver battles were still being fought.
                    Then the cavalry was driven into the trenches and the cavalry became simple riflemen.
      2. Fat
        Fat 18 December 2021 02: 37
        +1
        Absolutely! Rather, additional protection from the rear and flank ...
    2. LisKat2
      LisKat2 16 December 2021 20: 35
      +8
      In fact, uniforms are not my topic, but I read somewhere: winged hussars were not only in Poland.
      When the hussars galloped, the wings rustled in the wind and at dusk they acted quite on the nerves, and if you consider that there were "black hussars" and completely frost on the skin. Perhaps this was also taken into account: the demoralized enemy is already half the victory.
      I ask you not to criticize too much - all from historical novels and my own reflections.
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 17 December 2021 10: 42
        +2
        Quote: LisKat2
        that there were "black hussars"

        I haven't heard of black hussars, but maybe there were,
        but the "black reiters" (Schwarze Reiter) were definitely ... hi
      2. Kozak Za Bugra
        Kozak Za Bugra 17 December 2021 12: 30
        +2
        Hello! As for the winged hussars in the literal sense of the Pole, it seems to me this is the only case, but I read somewhere that the Hungarian hussars seemed to attach a wing to their shields.
        Black hussars were in Russia and Germany.
        In Russia, the 5th Alexandria Regiment was formed in 1773 and existed until 1917, nicknamed the Black Hussars by the color of the form.
        Their hymn:
        "Who did not know, did not see
        The cherished deeds,
        Who did not know, did not hear
        About the hussar of the immortals!

        Chorus:
        March forward!
        The trumpet is calling
        Black hussars
        March forward!
        Death awaits us
        Pour the enchantment!

        Start singing
        Regimental song;
        Pour, drink
        Circular charm!

        Chorus:

        Don't cry, don't cry
        My dear!
        If they kill, forget -
        To know, such is the fate "
        It sounds very beautiful in the performance of the Valaam choir.
        In Germany, from 1741 to 1918, there was the 2nd Life Hussar Regiment of Queen Victoria of Prussia, nicknamed the "Black Hussars" also by the color of the uniform.
        The "death's head" that is, the skull was an attribute of both the Russians and the Prussian hussars, which was supposed to mean courage and disregard for death. The same motif of the skull has been present on the badge of the Royal Spearmen of Great Britain since 1993 in the form of a skull with the inscription under it "or glory" (or glory), which together with the skull reads "death or glory".
  4. LisKat2
    LisKat2 16 December 2021 19: 11
    +2
    Good evening everyone. Today was a trumpet day and I'm damn tired. So I can't be here long
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 16 December 2021 20: 05
      +2
      Is it a pipe?
  5. LisKat2
    LisKat2 16 December 2021 19: 55
    +3
    In this case, beards will be the distinguishing mark "distinguishing them from the aristocrats": from the time of Vladimir the "Baptist" to Peter 1, all Russians wore beards.
    And later, the Old Believers differed from the "new believers": with a beard, a cross, and they pray with two fingers.
    And if you remember the times of Alexander Nevsky, Russian vigilantes differed from knights in clothing.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you know more and you have more visual materials, but I represent from the film: "Knight's Castle" and "Quentin Dorvad", candidate with "Mosfilm" (I have not seen others)
    1. kalibr
      17 December 2021 07: 22
      +3
      Quote: LisKat2
      "Knight's Castle"

      A good film, its costume part was directed by Gorelik ... There are more claims to "Quentin" ... But the American "Quentin" in the costume part is better than ours.
  6. Undecim
    Undecim 16 December 2021 20: 21
    +13
    And today we will begin another series of articles, continuing the theme of "the history of clothing", a cycle entirely devoted to the history of military uniforms, that is, uniforms.

    I will allow myself to clarify, since the announcement is presented a little incorrectly. Uniforms are, in modern terms, corporate clothing, that is, clothing that shows belonging to a particular professional or social group.
    Accordingly, the military uniform is one of the varieties of uniforms.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 16 December 2021 21: 04
      +5
      Vic. Nick, good health. I haven't seen you for a long time, but you are here with a clarification.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 16 December 2021 21: 13
        +7
        Recently, the content is such that the desire to be present occurs less and less. So I'm trying to write an article.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 17 December 2021 05: 22
          +5
          ... trying to write an article.


          Yeah ... It's inspiring. smile
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 16 December 2021 23: 23
      +5
      And the ancient Romans had one of the first "military uniforms". They began to switch to uniform armor, weaponry, and military clothing during the Punic Wars.
      And they improved the "uniform" until the collapse of the Empire itself.
  7. vladcub
    vladcub 16 December 2021 21: 01
    +4
    "King Henry 4" he generally stands out not only among the last Valois, but the subsequent Bourbons "did not reach" his level.
    And the "walker" was and the pot "cooked".
    PS. I don't know very well their kings, it seems there weren't any. "articulate" were that they ran after their "bolt", and with the "bowler hat"
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 16 December 2021 21: 40
      +6
      Glory, Henry IV? just was the first Bourbon to the throne of France. Henry III was the last of Valois.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 17 December 2021 07: 53
        +2
        Mish, I say: "among the last Valois and subsequent Bourbons" I know that he is the first Bourbon
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 17 December 2021 09: 53
        +4
        Glory, Henry IV? just was the first Bourbon to the throne of France. Henry III was the last of Valois.

        Is this a song about him? "Henri the Fourth".
    2. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 16 December 2021 21: 45
      +5
      Quote: vladcub
      The Bourbons did not "match" his level.

      Personally, I like his son. At the age of 16, to remove the mother, then take away the young Richelieu from her and hide behind him like a shield, suppress several fronts, bend the old aristocracy, this must be able to. Moreover, many still think that Louis XIII was a weakling, not interested in business.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 17 December 2021 08: 18
        +3
        And, after all, it is true: Louis 13 is perceived as a complacent simpleton. Perhaps he seems so against the background of Cardinal Richelieu?
        1. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 17 December 2021 08: 54
          +4
          Quote: vladcub
          Perhaps he seems so against the background of Cardinal Richelieu?

          As the voiceover said in one of the French film adaptations of "The Musketeers" - It's hard to be the son of Henry VI and the father of Louis XIV :))))
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 17 December 2021 09: 57
            +2
            Actually, Louis 14 was quite smart, but in his old age he fell under the influence of Madame Mentonon and the church, and those have other interests
  8. CHEREDA73
    CHEREDA73 16 December 2021 21: 02
    +5
    Good evening everyone!
    Vyacheslav Olegovich's articles are guessed from a half-glance and the finger itself already clicks on the title, without hesitation smile
    I read it and learned something new for myself.
    We know how the musketeers of Louis 13 looked, but how their uniforms were transformed over time for me personally was "behind the scenes".
    But I don’t know if a soldier armed with a musket (by the way, heavy) can be classified as lightly armed? I wonder where is the border between lightly armed and heavily armed?
    1. kalibr
      17 December 2021 07: 24
      +3
      Quote: CHEREDA73
      where is the border between lightly armed and heavily armed?

      Breastplate and helmet - heavy, if they are not - light!
  9. Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 16 December 2021 21: 10
    +5
    Thanks to Vyacheslav O. for an interesting story. smile The topic is very interesting for me. I read a lot about it. P.Kanik liked him especially.
  10. Ashes of Claes
    Ashes of Claes 16 December 2021 21: 22
    +3
    Well ... stylish, fashionable, musketeer)
  11. LisKat2
    LisKat2 16 December 2021 21: 25
    +2
    Quote: Andrey Moskvin
    Is it a pipe?

    Something like this.
  12. LisKat2
    LisKat2 16 December 2021 21: 28
    +3
    Unfortunately, I have to go. Goodbye, hope to see you soon
  13. sevryuk
    sevryuk 17 December 2021 00: 28
    +1
    For example, foot and horse troops exhibited by Nuremberg in honor of the local ruler had a red and white uniform.


    What local ruler? Holy Roman Emperor? Red and white colors are an attribute of free ("imperial" cities).
  14. Vladimir 290
    Vladimir 290 17 December 2021 09: 30
    0
    "Black Musketeers in Everyday Uniform, engraving by FDN Dieudonne, 1815"
    They are somehow suspicious. Probably already then they supported traditional European values.
    1. kalibr
      17 December 2021 09: 57
      +5
      Quote: Vladimir 290
      Probably already then they supported traditional European values.

      And what's wrong with that? You distinguish between civil rights proper and propaganda issues, especially ours, which seeks to present the West in an exclusively negative light. That there are "oiled blue" are on all corners. I have been to France, Germany, Spain, Italy ... They do not stand, they do not encroach on the dignity of our tourists. As for other relations, in Russia they also flourished widely (read the article in the magazine RODINA "Everyone can be fornication!"), And in Soviet times, after the revolution, pederasty was completely allowed and covered only under Stalin. Here the attitude to the "sin of Sodom" fluctuated along with the fluctuations of the party line. As in the West, however!
      1. depressant
        depressant 17 December 2021 10: 24
        +2
        The conversation is taking an interesting direction!
        I was focusing on hunting uniforms, but it turns out that I have to talk about the advantages of "liberal values" wassat )))
        And, by the way, they, these "advantages", were very clearly demonstrated in matters of hunting - a demonstration of the division of people into classes. Having worked hard, I wrote the bottom comment - did not hurt anyone!
        Well, I'll write about the hunt differently, taking into account the "liberal values" wassat )))
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 17 December 2021 17: 16
          +1
          "Three nuts for Cinderella".
          Luxurious European hunting suits !!! And crossbows!
          1. kalibr
            17 December 2021 20: 47
            +1
            Yes, the costumes are gorgeous. I only saw similar ones in the movie "Wonderful Times in Spesart".
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 17 December 2021 20: 52
              +1
              One of the favorite children's films since "Visiting the Fairy Tale". hi
              As well as the "City of Masters".
              1. Fat
                Fat 18 December 2021 00: 59
                +2
                I will just add. Before the financial crisis raged in the early tenths, I presented a friend with a hunting suit from a Hungarian company. End of the exhibition. On my friend - The size of the cabinet was found, I did not get it ... no. I didn't order.
                This is not a uniform, although it looks like ... Great people can sew ...
        2. Fat
          Fat 18 December 2021 00: 49
          +1
          Only ... Give me a fitting and a hunting suit, I think it's better a checkered one ..)))) In the garden - a stranger ...
      2. Vladimir 290
        Vladimir 290 17 December 2021 15: 16
        +1
        I’m not encroaching on anyone’s rights, it just jarred that the two Musketeers were holding each other’s hands sweetly. I have always had a different opinion of them (just kidding). And the article is well written.
      3. hohol95
        hohol95 17 December 2021 17: 14
        +1
        Does it mean that the countries of "democracy" in a NEGATIVE "way" do not at all strive to introduce the Russian Federation to their citizens?
        Indicate a Soviet feature film in which the US Army seeks to seize the territory of the USSR?
        1. kalibr
          17 December 2021 20: 50
          +1
          Quote: hohol95
          Does it mean that the countries of "democracy" in a NEGATIVE "way" do not at all strive to introduce the Russian Federation to their citizens?

          And we need to follow their example, right? That is, if a cannibal lived on your street, then why don't we try, right? Do not pay attention to the bad. A good example is SCIENCE to others!
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 17 December 2021 20: 57
            +1
            For every action there is a reaction - Newton's Third Law.
            Let me ask you a question about the history of propaganda - Who was the first to depict the "enemy" in the form of an animal - Russia Britain in the form of a lion or Britain Russia in the form of a bear?
            And cannibals should be put in a cell with a cannibal eater !!!
            1. kalibr
              17 December 2021 21: 01
              +1
              Quote: hohol95
              Let me ask you a question about the history of propaganda - Who was the first to depict the "enemy" in the form of an animal - Russia Britain in the form of a lion or Britain Russia in the form of a bear?

              Does it matter? It is important to find out who first started among the three-year-olds in the sandbox!
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 17 December 2021 21: 22
                +1
                Does this mean that this does not matter in relations between countries?
                It looks like "newfangled" - they have "intentions or desires" and for this we will impose sanctions on them ...
                Nobody cares about the actual state of affairs ...
            2. kalibr
              17 December 2021 21: 03
              +1
              Quote: hohol95
              For every action there is a reaction - Newton's Third Law.

              This has nothing to do with politics. Such a policy is the lot of C grade workers and peasants who are trying to run the state! In fact, a truly powerful state does not pay attention to the pin pricks of foreign propaganda, but responds to serious challenges ... very cleverly. Let's check if you can be entrusted with the management of the state? Here is the situation for you: the development of computer technology has slowed down in your country. And the neighboring country is importing its computers and crushing your industry. You are ready to give her money for modernization. But it takes time. A competing country sends and helmet computers ... What to do? Your actions? "According to Newton's law" ... Yes, one more thing: a competitor country does not violate any trade laws!
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 17 December 2021 21: 29
                +1
                I was not torn to become rulers and I am not torn. I have not and will not be able to play in games.
                Working. Where hands, where to the best of "brain power"!
                You forget that not only computers were imported into the USSR and the Russian Federation, but also machines for the production of "soldiers".
                You yourself wrote articles about this.
                How was the USSR "guilty before the United States and the" states "adopted the" Jackson-Vanik Amendment "in 1974?
                Is it only an "obstacle to immigration"?
                The main thing is that the Sun never sets over the Empire !!!
                1. kalibr
                  18 December 2021 13: 37
                  0
                  Who is stronger is right. It is obvious. But it's a pity that you refused to try to solve my problem ...
                2. kalibr
                  18 December 2021 13: 39
                  0
                  They have -41 SSBs. We have 92 !!! Here it is. And more than 400 more missiles. And tanks ... more than in the whole world put together!
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 18 December 2021 14: 05
                    +1
                    And what about aviation? Especially the sea, the number of "pennants" plus the fleets of NATO countries ...
                    You are missing from the calculations of NATO allies at that time. And their placement near the borders of the USSR and the Department of Internal Affairs!
                    Now there is no internal affairs department, and NATO troops are even closer to our borders.
                    And 13 American "biological" laboratories in Ukraine ...
                    And they are computers, like cars ...
                    We can do it ourselves, but we like "foreign" ones more.
                    Previously, there were computers of European production, but now they themselves can only assemble from Asian components!
                    The Renault plant translated the plant from Belgium or France to Romania.
                    Romanians make Renault, Belgians don't make Renault.
                    And the "power" in the USSR during Brezhnev's time and further simply grew old and did not want to arrange industrialization again with tightening of belts!
                    This meant withdrawing money from other sectors, and this would have to be explained to the population.
                    And the population began to live a little more calmly and take care of the life of a single family!
                    It became easier for "authorities and production workers" to "go with the flow" and do only their daily affairs!
                    Instead of fighting for the modernization of factories and industries.
                    And after 1993, the "young reformers" stepped on the tracks of the tsarist economy - we will sell the barriers to foreigners, and what we don’t buy from ourselves in other countries!
                    And it was necessary for "friends Bill, Margaret and Co"?
                    No.
                    They helped to destroy, they did not sell advanced technologies, as they did then (the French from the tsarist aourtillerists secreted the design of the 75mm high-explosive fragmentation projectile, they themselves were able to set up production only during WWI, and before WWII they ordered a batch of shells in Germany. But the war began and the shells remained to the Germans !).
                    So now - "games with" Mistrals ", sanctions because of" Magnitsky, Navalny, Skripals and others "!
                    Will our country ever be allowed to live in peace and not to "enter our Kalash row with its pig's snout"?
                    1. kalibr
                      18 December 2021 16: 55
                      0
                      Quote: hohol95
                      Will our country ever be allowed to live in peace and not to "enter our Kalash row with its pig's snout"?

                      And no one bothers her! On the contrary: look at how much the United States buys from us. Enemies are not treated like that.
                      Quote: hohol95
                      Are you missing out on the count

                      Remember. I never miss ANYTHING. Even with NATO, we surpassed "them" many times over in many types of weapons. Who needs your "pennants" when there are ballistic missiles.
                      But you don't want to solve the problem like that, right? You don’t want to decide, but are you trying to argue with me about politics? What does it mean? Funny...
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 18 December 2021 17: 29
                        0
                        I don't argue ...
                        Especially for politics with a former member of the CPSU ...
                        And the United States and the Third Reich traded with the USSR during the Cold War.
                        The difference is that they bought and bought what they needed, and we were NOT sold what we needed!
                        And others were "advised" not to buy or sell.
                        Especially a lot of American firms buy cartridges from the Russian Federation. And this is despite the ban on such purchases.
                        There was a time when the USSR did not have ICBMs and strategic aviation. The country lay in ruins. Eastern Europe is not doing well.
                        And the British prime minister is already demanding that the military "cook up" a plan for a war with the USSR and is trying to persuade the Americans to do so.
                        This is the kind of peace I was talking about for the country. And that would not climb "into our monastery with their statutes"!
                        Did our officials allow the speech that the United States is a big country and that its bowels should be divided "for all"? No.
                        Americans and American women have similar speeches
                        allowed ...
                        Trading is one thing, but politics and propaganda is another!
                        We are still represented as in the film "The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks."
      4. hohol95
        hohol95 17 December 2021 17: 34
        +1
        Germany. 1994 year.
        Comedy film.
        "The most desirable man".
        The main character "by the will of fate" begins to live in the apartment of a gay man whose partner works as a butcher!
        1994 year.
        Quiet introduction of burghers to "correct behavior"!
        Just a comedy.
        27 years have passed ...
  15. hohol95
    hohol95 17 December 2021 09: 45
    +3
    The first school uniform appeared in Great Britain.
    In 1552, Christ's Hospital decided to introduce a uniform blue dress for students at Christ's Hospital, a school for orphans and poor children.
    The set includes a long dark blue coat with a belt, breeches or a skirt, yellow knee socks and a white collar!
    This form is used in the 21st century.
    95% of the school students believe that the form does not need to be changed and we must continue to maintain the traditional form!
  16. depressant
    depressant 17 December 2021 09: 48
    +4
    Good morning, dear colleagues! )))
    I noticed for a long time that many men in my village began to wear camouflage. But this is hardly a military clothing, rather, a hunting one.
    In the Middle Ages, hunting was the privilege of nobles, and in imitation of the Romans, hunting scenes were depicted on the front wall of the sarcophagi of the noble dead. The tradition of hunting dogs among the aristocracy persisted for a long time, right up to the 17th century, and there is no doubt that hunters did not dress randomly. The Merovingians had an extraordinary passion for hunting. However, no information has survived about the hunting uniform of the Early Middle Ages. It is only known that the Merovingians used darts, spears and bows to hunt.
    Further, hunting with its expensive equipment, as well as hunting with the help of birds, began to gain particular popularity. By the way, on the carpet from Bayeux, Wilhelm and Harold are riding with birds in their arms. There is also one of the oldest monuments of the Middle Ages, which allows you to find out how hunters dressed in those days - this is the tympanum of the door of the Church of Saint-Jursen in Bourges, dating from about 1140. On this bas-relief, horse and foot hunters hunt deer and wild boar. The clothes of foot hunters and horsemen are, one might say, uniforms, because they are dressed the same: a cotta that does not reach the knees, and with a belt, narrow sleeves and a cape that was fastened around the neck. Only one hunter is wearing a hood, and the rest of the participants in the action are bareheaded. Legs from knees to ankles are covered with greaves, similar to gaiters, presumably made either from cords or from stitched leather. A small horn hangs at the hip.
    There is no doubt that such clothes of ordinary participants in a hound hunt were the most practical and its type has stood for centuries, taking into account the development of technologies for sewing clothes.
  17. depressant
    depressant 17 December 2021 10: 46
    +4
    Out of the simplicity of my soul, I believed that the royal and noble hunting for wild animals, excluding the hunting of commoners, was due to the fact that Europe was small, and if everyone began to hunt the beast, then the beast would not be left - they would have killed! And it also seemed to me that hunting is such a passion that cannot be resisted, since ancient times, taking into account the predatory nature of man.
    It is, of course, so, but not quite.
    The hunting of the noble person on the beast had two purposes.
    The first of them consisted in demonstrating the privilege of a noble person to hunt, a showy demonstration of nobility to the subordinate population. As a result, the person dressed as for a holiday - magnificently, clinging to herself everything that is dear in the family. Without fail, vassals took part in the hunt, who dressed less luxuriously and more comfortably than the overlord. Their participation is a demonstration of loyalty. There was no question of the uniform of a noble hunter in the Middle Ages! Uniforms are the lot of hounds and falconers.
    The second goal, strange as it may sound, is to improve combat skills in conditions close to real combat. An animal, especially a large and predatory one, for example, a wild boar, a bear, a wolf, - such an animal will not give a ride. Hunting was a way of training the rising noble youth, and also helped to hone the fighting skills of the older generation of nobles.
    But already at the beginning of the 18th century, under the pressure of educational ideas and humanism, a hunting form arose among the nobles. Believe it or not - this is a tailcoat and a frock coat! wassat )))
    1. kalibr
      17 December 2021 12: 40
      +2
      Quote: depressant
      Believe it or not - this is a tailcoat and a frock coat!

      You are clever!
    2. Fat
      Fat 18 December 2021 01: 11
      +2
      I will not believe! Because it's tight. A simpler dress was used than a tailcoat with folds. And the frock coat looked more like a loose coat. Hunting for jewelry does not like fishing ...
      "Do not ask him what - answers si, yes, si ... Well, he himself, everything is leaning on the Iwashi herring" (S)
  18. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 17 December 2021 10: 49
    +2
    For example, these "three-quarter armor" were worn by German horsemen. Just creepy, isn't it?
    Vienna Imperial Armory.
    Photo by the author

    Is the helmet some kind of strange, it looks like it is not from this armor at all? hi
    1. kalibr
      17 December 2021 12: 40
      +3
      Quote: Mihaylov
      Is the helmet some kind of strange, it looks like it is not from this armor at all?

      The helmet is covered with cloth ...
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 17 December 2021 12: 52
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Mihaylov
        Is the helmet some kind of strange, it looks like it is not from this armor at all?

        The helmet is covered with cloth ...

        I didn't understand from the photo.
        I wonder why?
        Poor preservation? hi
        1. kalibr
          17 December 2021 20: 52
          +2
          It was fashionable. Some gunsmiths had such a trick. Then the fabric got dirty and dyed black to match the armor.
  19. depressant
    depressant 17 December 2021 13: 40
    +2
    However, the tailcoat and frock coat as a hunting uniform for noble people of the early 18th century had to be lived up to. But uniforms as such in this type of human activity began to emerge even earlier due to urgent need. After all, a battle with a wild beast is still a battle that requires dexterity even from noble persons, to which a dangerous beast could go, without making out who is in front of him - a duke, a king or a commoner huntsman. And although in the monuments of fine art until the 14th century there are still no images of hunters in uniforms, the magnificent miniatures placed in a manuscript book called "The Book of Hunting" by Gaston Phoebus, Comte de Foix (1331-1391) can tell a lot about this. This manuscript is kept in the National Library of Paris and dates from the last years of the reign of Charles V (1364-1380). The miniatures illustrating the text provide interesting information, including about the clothes of the hunters of that time.
    For example, a horse hunter.

    He is dressed in blue tight-fitting track shoes, leather boots and a blue cotta with narrow sleeves. Over the hunter's cotta, an escoffle of purple cloth is worn, intercepted at the waist with a black belt, to which a black and gold escarcelle wallet is suspended. The chaperon hood, the same color as the escofle, covers the shoulders. The end of the chaperon is pressed with a belt so that it does not cling to the branches. A collar of black fur is seen around the neck, on the head there is a green cap like a small chaperone. Leather saddles are often black, the harness is red and gold. Long pendants - "fly nets" (chasse-mouches) with scallops, attached with gilded convex plates, hang from a groin strap; a groin strap covers the base of the tail. The rider's shoes are rounded and sealed at the toes in case of a kick against a tree. Escoffle was usually trimmed with otter fur. When it rained, the hunter could wear a chaperon instead of a cap, which completely covered his head and left only his face open. The rider does not have a horn suspended on its side; he is in charge of the trackers (varlets de limiers).


    There are also miniatures depicting the uniforms of the Pathfinders and Hounds. But it is clear that each locality and even more so the country developed its own standards for hunting clothing. And only when the development of industry began and entrepreneurs became interested in the release of hunting uniforms, its gradual unification began, first within the countries, and then a fashion arose for certain types of it, which became international. And over time, they appeared - a tailcoat and a frock coat, both for hunters and hunters)))
    1. kalibr
      17 December 2021 20: 55
      +1
      Apparently, I'll have to write about the medieval hunting ... Fortunately, I was in the hunting halls of New Hovburg and took off something interesting there.
      1. depressant
        depressant 17 December 2021 21: 02
        -1
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, when I began to read about hunting, I was amazed at how much has been written, the topic is extremely popular and interesting. Let's get an article, of course! There are a lot of hunters among your regular commentators, success will be complete)))
        1. kalibr
          17 December 2021 21: 12
          +1
          Well, I'm not chasing success, but the topic is interesting - yes. And the material is there!
          1. depressant
            depressant 17 December 2021 21: 21
            +1
            And I did not mean you - the success of the topic! wassat )))
            There will be something to talk about, argue, joke, laugh, even remember literary and film characters good drinks hi )))
            1. kalibr
              18 December 2021 16: 59
              +1
              Quote: depressant
              There will be something to talk about, argue, joke, laugh, even remember literary and film characters

              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++
  20. CHEREDA73
    CHEREDA73 17 December 2021 20: 25
    +1
    Polish winged hussars look very beautiful. But do wings add to combat capabilities?
    There is a version that such a construction is an anti-arcanum. Another option is that the wings act as shock absorbers if the rider falls to the ground. Personally, it seems to me that fighting with such a thing in the background is a dubious pleasure.
    1. kalibr
      17 December 2021 20: 56
      +1
      Quote: CHEREDA73
      dubious pleasure.

      It began with them and ended with them! That says it all!
  21. Fat
    Fat 18 December 2021 00: 40
    +2
    It's Luxurious! Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Glad for the red
  22. Fat
    Fat 18 December 2021 01: 35
    +1
    Great article, thanks! I look forward to continuing. Still, "uniform" and military clothing-uniforms have differences ... At least for a show and for a battle?
    1. kalibr
      18 December 2021 17: 00
      +1
      Quote: Thick
      At least for viewing and for battle?

      There will be about this!
      1. Fat
        Fat 18 December 2021 17: 04
        +1
        I know you have not started the topic in vain. Best regards and pending. And the topic is something. Topic! Thank you.
        1. kalibr
          18 December 2021 17: 40
          +1
          Oh, Andrei Borisovich, and not in vain. I'm cunning!
          1. Fat
            Fat 18 December 2021 18: 27
            +1
            So we don't expect anything else ...
            Over bumps, over bumps .... You don't need another))))
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 18 December 2021 21: 18
              0
              Figuratively, figuratively, as always, Andrei Borisovich.
              Well? For us? In a glass? No more. For ... it's time for me. To think.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 18 December 2021 17: 31
        +1
        Good evening, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
        I am interested in your problem regarding computers. An aggressive PR-company against the aggressor will not help the cause? At least temporarily?
        1. kalibr
          18 December 2021 18: 05
          +2
          Quote: Phil77
          Aggressive PR-campaign against the aggressor will not help the cause, even temporarily?

          It's not bad! But ... "aggressive" is bad. There is a rule for the number of contacts. "Underplaying" will not work. Overdoing it is the opposite effect. Therefore it is dangerous. Therefore, the proposal is incorrect. Try further!
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 18 December 2021 18: 16
            +1
            A ban? Will not help. And if? And if you become one of the shareholders of the "aggressor"? Make a very good offer from which they are ..... Huh? laughing To buy their shares. A lot!
            Next, redirect the sales market.
            1. kalibr
              18 December 2021 19: 16
              +2
              Quote: Phil77
              Redirect the sales market.

              You know how to think, and you are not afraid to think. This is good. You are close to the correct answer. You lack experience. Redirecting your sales market is expensive. The solution is actually very simple. You are redirecting supply logistics. Prohibit the delivery of computers on all ports except four. This is your full right. But there are no conditions for their delivery !!! While the supplier firms build warehouses there, they will agree with the carriers about new routes, for now, for now, for now ... in the meantime, your money transferred to your industry will start working. This example is taken from the history of France, which was hit by a stream of cheap Japanese computers in the 90s. They closed all ports for import, except for 4 = x completely unsuitable for this. And while the Japanese were establishing their own order there, they tightened the competitiveness of their industry. So action is equal to opposition in politics NOT ALWAYS. More often the "side blow" is more advantageous.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 18 December 2021 21: 11
                +1
                Devilishness !!!! How simple! Why didn't I hire a lawyer, but ??????? It's easier and cheaper !!!! laughing Bravissimo!
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 18 December 2021 21: 26
                0
                And if? And if you put your own person in this "conditional port"? Yes, taking into account the time ... Yes, taking into account the proximity of the government. Yes, taking into account the government's interest in having its own "computers"? And if it's not "four", but one ? My mother, far away, not from Odessa, was right! "Study, son!" She said. But? As always. hi
                1. kalibr
                  19 December 2021 07: 08
                  0
                  Quote: Phil77
                  And if? And if you put your own person in this "conditional port"? Yes, taking into account the time ... Yes, taking into account the proximity of the government. Yes, taking into account the government's interest in having its own "computers"? And if it's not "four", but one ? My mother, far away, not from Odessa, was right! "Study, son!" She said. But? As always.

                  Here you are already thinking correctly. You can speed up everything, or you can slow down everything even more!
              3. Fat
                Fat 18 December 2021 21: 36
                +1
                Enfilade citation? Bronze sign? Recognized and workable. Armpit armor is minimal. Nobody expects a catch.?
                How to extinguish mutons, guidesto X-som, volume three)))
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 18 December 2021 23: 16
                  0
                  Borisovich, I do not understand, in kind, my idea, rubbish?
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 18 December 2021 23: 20
                    0
                    Cho, no, computers, in kind? laughing And what if this henat is like yayo-o! Sputnik;
                  2. Fat
                    Fat 18 December 2021 23: 35
                    0
                    No, you can't take the muton in the forehead, armor, but vulnerable .. I found X-som, it will not be untied until I send a command to Mars))))
                    We knew how to do things in 1993!))))