In the United States, the program for the construction of the first heavy military icebreaker "stalled"

American plans to conquer the Arctic are again postponed. Not only does the United States lack icebreakers for this, but also the program for their construction "stalled". According to The Drive, the dates for receiving the first new heavy icebreaker are postponed for one more year.

The only USCGC Polar Star (WAGB-10) icebreaker available to the United States will soon be out of service even after a major overhaul. The point is that, due to active operation, the icebreaker has already exhausted all existing resources and has long been in need of replacement. However, the Polar Security Cutter program implemented by the US, which provides for the construction of three new heavy icebreakers for the US Coast Guard, unexpectedly "stalled".

Reportedly, the US Coast Guard will receive the lead icebreaker not in 2024, but in 2025. At the same time, it is emphasized that this is already the second transfer, initially the transfer of the icebreaker was planned in 2023. As stated, construction of the lead icebreaker has not yet begun, it is "at the design stage." But no one can explain the reasons for such a delay, many assumptions have been put forward, including changes to the original draft.

In 2019, the American shipbuilding company VT Halter Marine in Pascagoula, Mississippi was awarded a fixed contract to build a large diesel-electric icebreaker for the US Coast Guard. The icebreaker is to be laid down in 2021 under the Polar Security Cutter (PSC, formerly Heavy Polar Ice Breaker) program, jointly implemented by the US Navy and the US Coast Guard, and delivered to the customer by June 2024. Two additional icebreakers of the same type were planned to enter service in 2026 and 2027.

As part of the project, it was planned to build an icebreaker with a total displacement of 23300 tons, the type of power plant - diesel-electric, power 45200 hp. (33 MW), the thickness of the ice, which he can pass - 1,8 m (in the usual mode of passage). Since the vessel was originally intended for the Coast Guard, it is envisaged to install one automatic cannon of 25 mm caliber. In this case, it is allowed to equip the vessel with additional weapons.

Comments

[konstantin68]

It turns out that the "partners" sometimes shift the dates to the right. But this is different.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: konstantin68

But this is different.

Of course! Russia does not make ATGM "fire and forget" or VNEU, because it cannot, and the United States does not make an icebreaker because they do not really need it at the present time.

[A009]

Does the USA make VNEU? Enlighten, I don't know, very curious. Or again, "this is different"?

[Alex Freman]

[/ quote] Is the US doing VNEU? [quote]

And where did you read that? It was written that Russia is not making VNEU because it can't, and not that the US is making VNEU. And that's "really different".

[A009]

And where did you read this? It was written only that Russia does not do VNEU, because it cannot, and not what the United States does VNEU. And it is "really different

There is such a concept-context. If we are discussing Russia and the US counter-example and there are no references to other countries, then, in the context of this discussion, the examples clearly refer to these countries. Of course, you may have a different opinion, but I'm not going to discuss it. So be it. Of course he meant Japan. Or any other country. But not the USA)

[Alex Freman]

I don’t presume to read someone’s thoughts or, in this case, what he had in mind, but for me the main message in this text is that someone cannot do something, but someone doesn’t need something and VNEU in this context serves as an example.

[A009]

That is, you do not "undertake", as I understand it, to judge or comment on what someone had in mind in their statement, and immediately comment on the second sentence and express your opinion about what the author wrote. Does this bipolarity bother you?
And re-read the second one again. It says that the United States does not need an icebreaker, but they have VNEU, and Russia cannot make VNEU. About which, I hope, rightly noted that they do not have VNEU. Whether they need it or not, I didn’t comment and I don’t presume to judge. I don’t know this and I didn’t speak about it at all.

[neri73-r]

Quote: Alex Freman

Does the USA make VNEU?

And where did you read that? It was written that Russia is not making VNEU because it can't, and not that the US is making VNEU. And that's "really different".

Russia makes reactors on MOX fuel, no one else can, and the USA will never be able to! And this is the highest scientific and technological achievement. So what?

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Russia does not make ATGM "fire and forget" or VNEU, because it cannot

Russian scientists do not have sufficient experience ... In addition, tens of thousands of highly qualified specialists have found jobs abroad. I can upset you, with a change in the amount of funding, this issue can be resolved positively.

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

The USA is an icebreaker - because they do not really need it now.

And they "don't need" a lot of things. Hypersonic rockets ... Icebreakers ... Even a sanitary module on the ISS (new) ... deep submersibles capable of cutting cables and lifting debris from F-35 ... Titanium cannot be mined in the required quantity ...
Most importantly, they use threats and coercion to discourage countries from sharing dual-use technologies with Russia.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: ROSS 42

Russian scientists do not have sufficient experience.

No experience of what? Attaching a homing head to an anti-tank missile? Building submarines? Is the Stirling engine something out of this world?

My opinion: if they do not do it, then they do not consider it appropriate.

[A009]

[quote My opinion: if they don't do it, then they don't consider it appropriate.] [/ quote]
As far as I understand, they don't need hypersound? And all the complaints of the generals about the lagging behind is for a diversion? (Where then?)))

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: A009

As far as I understand, they don't need hypersound? And all the complaints of the generals about the lagging behind is for a diversion? (Where then?)))

Did I say somewhere that they didn’t need it or that they couldn’t do it? It is necessary, and they will definitely do it in the next five years maximum.

[A009]

Did I say somewhere that they didn’t need it or that they couldn’t do it? It is necessary, and they will definitely do it in the next five years maximum.

Actually, the whole thread of this discussion came from your words (look at your first message - in short, Russia doesn't do it because it can't, the US - because they don't need to)! Then you say that you didn't claim this. What kind of prevarication is this?

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Is there really no one here at all distinguishes between irony?
Apparently, the local contingent needs to read Zoshchenko and Averchenko.
It's a classic! How is it possible not to read it?

[AVA77]

Stirling's engine What are you going to drown with? Coal or fuel oil

[datura23]

sailors ... or mattresses ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

My opinion: if they do not do it, then they do not consider it appropriate.

Yeah, they just don't want to, and if we don't, then we can't. Again you have double standards. Americans are all so smart and advanced, and we are stupid and backward. Why then did they take up arms against us with their sanctions, if we are savage barbarians and can do nothing?

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Piramidon

Yeah, they just don't want to, and if we don't, then we can't. Again you have double standards.

You did not understand.
I just wrote that there is an opinion here: if ours do not do something, it means - in the opinion of some part of the local contingent - that ours do not know how. And if they don’t do something, or someone else doesn’t succeed, it’s because they don’t need it at the moment.
For example, destroyers. Many here are convinced that Russia is not building them because it has lost all its competencies.
Do you agree with that?

[paul3390]

For example, destroyers. Many here are sure that Russia is not building them because it has lost all its competencies.

I do not think that a country capable of building, for example, a nuclear icebreaker, is not capable of building a destroyer. Rather, the question is in another - immediate goals. What is more important for the country now - a destroyer or, for example, two frigates? Or three corvettes? We need everything, and this, and that, and that. And that's all - it does not work, the tea of ​​the Russian Federation is not the Soviet Union. Alas..

And so reasoning - let's say China, which bakes destroyers like pies. Yes - enviable. But do you really think that our even nonesh competences are less than the Chinese ones ???

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Again, for the umpteenth time, all the same and in spite of everything, I affirm that at the moment what is being done is what is most expedient from the point of view of the military-political leadership.
It will be necessary, and if the funds allow, they will also make an aircraft carrier with a capacity of 500 tons.

[Vadim237]

It's not just that the construction of a new destroyer will cost the MO from 100 to 150 billion rubles - that's why they are not particularly eager to allocate money for this, since there are other areas of expenditure for the fleet with third-generation ATGM systems, the same IR TV GOS generation 3+ too expensive pleasure is a priority the goal is to equip the army with the same thermal imagers, binoculars, target designators, monoculars and sights of which there are not enough.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

So this was my initial comment!

[Serg koma]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Is the Stirling engine something transcendental?

It depends on whom

[Alex777]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

My opinion: if they do not do it, then they do not consider it appropriate.

VNEU is the exception that proves the rule.
Those two design bureaus, which should have done a long time ago, are not able to.
Those who could do it are not called because then someone will have to answer for the horse money spent on the first two.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

The explanation is too simple. And this is extremely rare. Of course, in this situation, it is precisely the case that is possible. But are you sure of this? The fact that this is the only way to explain the absence of the Russian VNEU.

[Alex777]

I closely followed the subject of VNEU.
I talked to people about the situation in Rubin and Malachite.
In their words, everything is sad with the results.
Here's a hilarious read:
https://lenta.ru/news/2019/07/10/aip/
In what I am ready to agree with you, it is that while VNEU sawed progress has gone far ahead.
Now other options have already appeared: with LIAB, and others.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quite right. We don't have much money to spend on vague, albeit promising, projects.
Six Varshavyanka is better than one VNEU.
The time will come, VNEU will appear necessarily.

[Alex777]

I'm waiting for "container nuclear power plants". They were promised in 2023 ...
And the states, apparently, do not have enough microcircuits for icebreakers.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Well, for container nuclear power plants.

[Alex777]

Definitely!
Other people work there. Competent.

[Barberry25]

the question is different... is it necessary? It's one thing for helicopters, let's say, you can create one, but for the ground it would be more interesting to put a camera on the same Konkurs/Fagots...

[paul3390]

Russia does not make ATGM "fire and forget"

For example, I'm not at all sure that this concept is correct. Too expensive, unreliable and vulnerable weapons are obtained. I think there will be opposition to such a homing head. All the more so - on the ground, where electronic warfare means can beat any power.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: paul3390

For example, I'm not at all sure that this concept is correct. Too expensive, unreliable and vulnerable weapons are obtained.

Totally agree with you.
For Javelin, the maximum range listed on Wikipedia is 3000 meters.
The tactics of its use are not entirely clear to me.
Of course, in the case of a tank-infantry attack like the one depicted in The They Fought for Their Homeland, the Javelins are worthless. Know yourself, shoot from the trenches at the advancing enemy.
But is modern war like that?

[paul3390]

"The best radar is the samurai's eye looking through the scope."

But seriously - after all, an ATGM with a gunner seems to me personally somehow more reliable ..

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Of course! Russia does not make ATGM "fire and forget" or VNEU, because it cannot

ATGM "fire-forget" the Russian Federation just can do it.
Moreover, a similar rocket for helicopters has been produced for several years - but not with a "godfather", but with an HE of the warhead. Because the specialists from the Ministry of Defense covered up funding for the development of the product, after which the office took up the banner. And her targets do not drive around in tanks.

[Serge-667]

Wow. 44 dislikes are honorable))
It's not even about them. And the fact that the United States really does not really need icebreakers on the California coast. Or in the Gulf of Mexico. And if the Eskimos freeze, they'll use the Canadian ones. They have them. Already a dozen. Heavy pair, 4 medium, 9 multipurpose, plus two hovercraft ...

even with a cannon.

[volodimer]

Just after we announced that our icebreakers will be able to carry something more serious... "https://topwar.ru/164724-vmf-rf-nameren-vooruzhatsja-boevymi-ledokolami.html"
here AK-176MA is mentioned.
"https://topwar.ru/167224-lider-dlja-sevmorputi-chem-interesen-novyj-ledokol.html"
without indication, but the possibility of installing serious weapons is announced.
And there is also gossip about the possibility of installing containers with "calibers" there ...
So they started thinking ... rushed to redesign. It’s not in the hands of the Russians to concede even in the project. Hence the shift.

[Alex777]

Quote: volodimer

So they started thinking ... rushed to redesign. It’s not in the hands of the Russians to concede even in the project. Hence the shift.

The logistics for spare parts in the United States is covered.
In order to finish the aircraft carrier Ford at last, they dismantle the aircraft carrier Kennedy for parts right on the slipway.
Postponement for a year - they hope to restore supplies within a year. Optimists. In real life, they can leave for more than one year with a bookmark.
So it's all about the microcircuits.

[volodimer]

Well, let them continue to engage in such cannibalism We have fewer targets to track.
In general, this shows that they have not yet been pecked by the "fried rooster". Otherwise, they would quickly stop spending money on all these super-aircraft carriers "Gerald R. Ford", super-destroyers "Zamvolt", and it would be a sin to mention the F-35. The 6,8 mm shooter is also an experiment that can only be allowed when no one is threatening you. But the navel can come loose.
And yes, let's not forget that the production of microcircuits is not located in the USA for a long time.

[Alex777]

Quote: volodimer

In general, this shows that they have not yet been pecked by the "fried rooster". Otherwise, they would quickly stop spending money on all these super-aircraft carriers "Gerald R. Ford", super-destroyers "Zamwalt", and it would be a sin to mention the F-35.

The inertia of such a large country is great.
And they cannot quickly curtail programs by tens of billions - the military-industrial complex will go bankrupt. One of the few purely American industries.

Quote: volodimer

The 6,8 mm shooter is also an experiment that can only be allowed when no one is threatening you.

This is a very correct and serious topic. Which gives advantages here and now.
As far as I understand, the transition is planned for a 3-gauge line:
5,7x28 (up to 300-400m), 6,5x51 (up to 800-1000m), 8,6x70 (up to 2000m).
And in terms of money (against the background of aircraft carriers and destroyers), not so much for the States. And this is not a joyful topic.
So far, we have absolutely nothing to oppose here.

Quote: volodimer

And yes, let's not forget that the production of microcircuits is not located in the USA for a long time.

60 billion were allocated to return production to the States.
But when this money will turn into microcircuits is an interesting question. We learned how to open new factories in the States.

[Kerensky]

As far as I understand, the transition is planned for a 3-gauge line:
5,7x28 (up to 300-400m), 6,5x51 (up to 800-1000m), 8,6x70 (up to 2000m).
And in terms of money (against the background of aircraft carriers and destroyers), not so much for the States. And this is not a joyful topic.
So far, we have absolutely nothing to oppose here.

It seems to me that SP-6 solves most of the problems. Gone are the days of the Boer riflemen.

[Alex777]

Quote: Kerensky

It seems to me that SP-6 solves most of the problems. Gone are the days of the Boer riflemen.

I can not agree.
1. There is sniper shooting in the city, on the plains and in the forest - yes, the SP-6 is good. But expensive, because it is not massive.
2. There is sniper shooting in the mountains and foothills. In general, everything is different there. Starting from the distance and ending with the weather. Just to quote a review of the .408CT cartridge:

“Yes, this shot gun at 1000m falls into the chest as from 308 to 300m. The wind is not felt so much that you just stay in limbo. With 308, you count there with a tambourine, the wind bounces and you measure and your fingers will slobber all sorts of flags, mirages, and so on. From 408 came saw pointed pressed hit ”.

The .338 Norma Magnum makes about the same impression. It is designed for a 300 grain bullet. A. 338 LM under 250 grain.
3. There is automatic fire from personal weapons. Here SP-6 is not so good. Range, recoil, price.
4. There is automatic fire from a machine gun. Here 6,8x51 and 8,6x70 are beyond any competition.
https://topwar.ru/166812-pulemet-sig-sauer-mg-338-priblizilsja-k-prinjatiju-na-vooruzhenie.html
All of the above is IMHO, of course.

[knn54]

WITHOUT cooperation with countries (for example, Finland), which have had experience in designing and building icebreakers for MANY decades, the Yankees will not succeed in ANYTHING.

[Andrey Moskvin]

And if they order in Russia? Will we help partners?

[Aviator_]

Well, they buy titanium for Boeing (or take it?) From here.

[Vadim237]

And Russia buys 70% of raw materials for the production of titanium alloys from Ukraine.

[Aviator_]

Is Verkhnyaya Salda located in Ukraine? This is a new word in geography.

[Vadim237]

No - Russia buys 70% of raw materials for titanium production from Ukraine.

[volodimer]

Neither Suomi nor Canada, which are the most advanced in the icebreaker fleet in the West, have no experience in building icebreakers for work in difficult conditions. Their most powerful icebreakers are comparable to our "average" ones. So even in cooperation, their only hope is for global warming, so that the capabilities of our nuclear-powered ships become redundant.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: knn54

WITHOUT cooperation with countries (for example, Finland), which have had experience in designing and building icebreakers for MANY decades, the Yankees will not succeed in ANYTHING.

There is one problem ... the main specialist in the construction of icebreakers and ice-class ships in Finland (and in the world) - Arctech Helsinki Shipyard - is actually owned by the Russians through the Cypriot seal Algador Holdings.

[mitrich]

I hope it will move more than once, at least until 30+ years. And there, it will become obsolete.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

The key word is "sometimes". They sometimes shift. Sometimes we do it on time

[tihonmarine]

Quote: konstantin68

It turns out that the "partners" sometimes shift the dates to the right. But this is different.

With a shipbuilding complex like the US, it's better to keep quiet. If necessary, they'll churn out icebreakers "like sausages". (It's better for the Urapatriots to keep quiet, remember WWII).

[Fisherman]

First, the timeframe for a year, then another billion ... the cut of the US military-industrial complex is steeper than what the US accused of ours through its puppets here!

[SKVichyakow]

Like it or not, you move it to the left. They already do not have time to print money because of the constantly increasing budget.

[Mouse]

He sees the eye, they let the saliva go ... but the tooth is numb ...

[rocket757]

In the United States, the program for the construction of the first heavy military icebreaker "stalled"

and what can be understood from this message .... besides the fact that the construction dates were postponed? In general, there is NOTHING.
Maybe somewhere else there is information, more precisely?

[hohol95]

"The new vessel is still in the design stage."
In September, a House Committee made a request to the Office of Government Accountability about the reasons for the construction delays.
The answer is unknown.
The manufacturer is silent.

[rocket757]

Information is scarce ... there is nothing to build different versions from.
Although, the flight of fantasy is different for everyone, which we see in the process of "discussion".

[hohol95]

Big money to lose ???
So they are silent, as they took water in their mouths.
And make smart faces ...
If the House of Representatives Committee is still waiting for the answers, then we will hear them the very last. If we hear.

[rocket757]

Yes figs with them, they will figure it out ...
So I had to visit, touch, participate, the most impressions, the most.
Strength, beauty, the height of creation ...

[hohol95]

Have you been on icebreakers ???

[rocket757]

I didn't have to go to the Arctic on an icebreaker, they worked on it when it was standing at the outfitting wall, then sea trials, in the Baltic ... it was an interesting time and work !!!

[hohol95]

It's not my destiny to visit, but there are many interesting things in the shops of the metallurgical plant.
Here the bridge crane fell ...

[rocket757]

Every day I drive past the EMK ... I can smell it when they load scrap ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

Maybe somewhere else there is information, more precisely?

Stuffing. The US CVDs are ultra-modern, and cannot be compared with the Russian ones. It's a pity, but this has been the case for a long time.

[rocket757]

Yes, yes, when / if they do them, they will fly straight - they will rush, low - low so.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

Yes, yes, when / if they do them, they will fly straight - they will rush, low - low so.

After Pearl Harbor, when necessary, aircraft carriers and battleships were riveted, but there is no need to talk about thousands of bombers. Will want, create, powerful factories. But while they do not want to, Russia needs to get ahead, even if it bleeds from the nose.

[rocket757]

Quote: tihonmarine

After Pearl Harbor, when needed

We need at least someone like Roosevelt!
We need the former American workers, engineers and other organizers, specialists ... and judging by what and how they succeed, now all of this is NOT and WILL NOT BE.
They can do a lot, but the feats of previous years are expected from them ... oh, yes, CHIPS FROM CHINA are still needed !!! and much more from all over the world.

[tralflot1832]

Surprisingly, the United States decided to defend the freedom of navigation in the Arctic Ocean and already allocated the first tranche of $ 600 million to the Coast Guard, for the lead icebreaker worth $ 746 million, but they have not started building yet. from Alaska, they leased the Norwegian icebreaker Svalborg this year.

[Adimius38]

they just don't really need it and the shipyard is currently building Q-LNG 4000 Barge Q-LNG 4000, designed to carry 4000 cubic meters of LNG with dimensions 324 x 64 x 32 ft 6 inches, will operate as part of an articulated tug and barge (ATB) designed to meet the requirements of the American Shipbuilding Bureau (ABS) and the International Gas Carrier Code as an LNG bunkering barge.

[bar]

construction of the lead icebreaker has not yet begun; it is "at the design stage". But no one can explain the reasons for such a delay,

What's the secret? The usual practice of transferring an order to a company that has never performed such work. The usual lack of experience, lack of design school. That's all. This is quite in the spirit of the striped, who believe that loot wins everything.

[Adimius38]

They have more specialists than we do because technically literate people are fleeing to the US without looking back. The Russian design school is based mainly on Soviet personnel of retirement age. Many are gone. And YES MONEY wins and they can afford many design schools at the same time. It is enough to take the same aircraft manufacturers. And here MIG is being merged with SU and people are being cut. If this continues, then the number of design schools in the country can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

[Khokhol Polish farm laborer]

In the United States, the entire industry has been killed, pilots from US airlines will run away to work in China, where salaries are higher and taxes are lower, ordinary Americans with an engineering education go to work in the European Union and Canada. This is an example of the rule of the US elites for 30 years, the Boeing company was killed in the USA, having reduced the staff by 12 thousand people, comrades are on the right path

[Adimius38]

if they have killed then the Russian industry was buried deep in the ground at least 25-30 years ago. The number of Boeing employees in 2020 is 140000 people, which is a bit too much for a dead company In May 2019, Boeing was included in the list of companies selected by NASA for the development and production of prototypes of spacecraft for landing on the moon under the new American lunar program "Artemis" Before the plane crashes involving the Boeing 737 MAX and before the pandemic crisis, the company made 57 aircraft per month, in the future it is planned to reach the production volume of 30 aircraft per month. Our SU TOGETHER WITH ILO HAS never dreamed of it, Boeing has an unimportant figure of 30 aircraft per month Our super booper superjet 11 planes a year for 2020 Khan's entire American industry bent down

[Engineer Schukin]

Quote: ROSS 42

Even the plumbing module on the ISS (new)

And you are not even ashamed to write elementary stupid things.
You would at least have studied the basic materiel before you shout so ignorantly.

[A. Privalov]

American plans to conquer the Arctic are again postponed.

And here are some conquests? It's about an icebreaker coast guard.

[TermNachTer]

It turns out interestingly))) a heavy icebreaker takes 1,8 m of ice, although in the Arctic it can be more than 3. What will it be called designed for 3 m, or there will be none at all.

[Kerensky]

If you look at the latest Chinese icebreakers, you will notice that they are equipped with completely redundant lifting equipment. What are the Chinese willing to raise there? Or have they already pulled it out? Then the USA does not need an icebreaker ...

[Khokhol Polish farm laborer]

Even the Hollywood propaganda column can't stand VSHE? And why do VSHE need icebreakers? Let Alyosha Musk build a Hyperloop or a super-duper elevator to the Moon, use it to deliver troops to Antarctica, and why do they need Soviet icebreaker technology? They have Tesla and an iPhone with rounded ends.