Military Review

Kharkiv court confirmed the legality of renaming Marshal Zhukov Avenue into Grigorenko Avenue

116
Kharkiv court confirmed the legality of renaming Marshal Zhukov Avenue into Grigorenko Avenue

The information about the decision made in Kharkov in favor of the legality of the renaming of Marshal Zhukov Avenue was confirmed. This decision was made by the Administrative Court of Appeal. Based on the verdict, the avenue of the legendary Soviet military leader will be called the avenue of Peter Grigorenko.


It should be noted that the renaming itself took place earlier. However, then the initiative group proposed to return the name of the famous marshal to the avenue. At the same time, the local deputy corps was categorically against the return of Zhukov Avenue. The greatest zeal for the renaming was shown by Dmitry Bulakh, who now writes about the "great victory".

According to Bulakh, "Petro Grigorenko Avenue will remain Petr Grigorenko Avenue, unless, of course, anyone has a desire to spend money on the courts again."

Bulakh is a member of the so-called "Kharkov Reform Coalition". In this case, the "coalition" is fighting the name of the Soviet marshal, believing that in Ukraine today there should be no trace of the glorious stories defeat of the Nazi troops. They are understandable ... New authorities, new priorities.

In whose honor was the avenue renamed?

Pyotr Grigorenko is a Soviet general, a participant in the Great Patriotic War. It is noteworthy that it was Grigorenko who acted as one of the most ardent critics of Georgy Zhukov, including for "hiding the historical truth" and "for unjustified losses."

Since the 1960s, he began to try on the role of a dissident. Supported Khrushchev's "exposure of Stalin's personality cult." Grigorenko founded the Ukrainian Helsinki Group, was a member of the Moscow Helsinki Group. In November 1977 he left the USSR, officially - for a medical operation and a meeting with his son who lived in the states. He died in America in 1987, where he is buried.

It should be noted that the Americans offered Grigorenko to work as a teacher at the West Point academy, but, according to the American version, he refused, saying that he could not help a potential enemy, although he was grateful to the United States for being sheltered. However, the topic of his possible interaction with the American special services, as they say, has not been disclosed.

In the 1990s, Russian President Boris Yeltsin, by his decree, restored Grigorenko to the rank of general (posthumously), which he had been deprived of in the Soviet Union.
116 comments
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  1. alex neym_2
    alex neym_2 2 December 2021 15: 56
    +5
    Well, I didn’t expect this from Kharkiv citizens! Looks like loot and gave its roots there ...
    1. private person
      private person 2 December 2021 16: 04
      +1
      Well, I didn’t expect this from Kharkiv citizens!

      But what difference does it make to a Kharkovite or a Kievite, they are all smeared with the same world. For them, Russia is the enemy number 1, they have such an ideology in all troubles and miscalculations, Russia is to blame and everything connected with it. In short, who does not jump, and so on.
      1. Andrey R2R
        Andrey R2R 2 December 2021 16: 08
        +6
        There, mind you - not all sat and jumped !!!
        1. private person
          private person 2 December 2021 16: 37
          0
          not all sash and jump !!!

          BUT most, otherwise there was not everything that we see now on the edge.
          1. isv000
            isv000 2 December 2021 16: 49
            +5
            Quote: private person
            BUT most, otherwise there was not everything that we see now on the edge.

            One third of the horses will be recruited in any kingdom-state and at any time. Further, like in a flock - an attempt to crush the majority, take a seat closer to the leader and grab what he did not eat, while spreading rot on those who disagree ... But in some country it completely rolls, where the majority silently bends, and somewhere not - like in Russia and Belarus ... You can throw your minuses.
            1. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov 2 December 2021 22: 10
              +2
              Quote: isv000
              One third of the horses will be recruited in any kingdom-state and at any time. Further, as in a pack - an attempt to crush the majority, take a seat closer to the leader and grab what he did not eat, while spreading rot on those who disagree ...

              You are right, unlike many commentators.
              And the decision of the court of appeal is shameful and - when the time comes - it will be canceled!
              1. volodimer
                volodimer 2 December 2021 23: 56
                +6
                In the 1990s, Russian President Boris Yeltsin, by his decree, restored Grigorenko to the rank of general (posthumously), which he had been deprived of in the Soviet Union.

                That's all you need to know about the "patriot" EBN. With him, all this scum was "returned" to us. Solzhenitsyn, Gregorenkov, Kolugin ... And the Ukrainians returned the Bandera and the Shukhevychs.
                1. isv000
                  isv000 3 December 2021 14: 51
                  +1
                  Quote: volodimer
                  That's all you need to know about the "patriot" EBN.

                  Relatives in Yekaterinburg confirm that they call him that - EBeeN ...
        2. businessv
          businessv 2 December 2021 16: 44
          +4
          Quote: Andrey R2R
          There, mind you - not all sat and jumped !!!
          This is true, but unfortunately, today the number of horses has increased significantly, thanks to endless propaganda, stuffing, etc. ... Lost time, missed the country, lost people and allies.
          1. Andrey R2R
            Andrey R2R 2 December 2021 17: 09
            0
            It is what it is.
      2. vitvit123
        vitvit123 2 December 2021 16: 32
        +1
        Well, there was an initiative group, which means that not all are equally "smeared" ..
      3. SKVichyakow
        SKVichyakow 2 December 2021 16: 55
        -3
        Quote: private person
        Well, I didn’t expect this from Kharkiv citizens!

        But what difference does it make to a Kharkovite or a Kievite, they are all smeared with the same world. For them, Russia is the enemy number 1, they have such an ideology in all troubles and miscalculations, Russia is to blame and everything connected with it. In short, who does not jump, and so on.

        It is not necessary to row everyone under the same comb. The family has its black sheep, of course, but in Kharkov they come to power after the death of G. Kernes, the forces associated with Zelensky, and his course
      4. va3610
        va3610 2 December 2021 17: 47
        -1
        But if our tanks cross the border, then these horses will instantly change their shoes and will be greeted with bread and salt. There is betrayal in the blood.
        1. private person
          private person 2 December 2021 17: 52
          -2
          But only if our tanks cross the border,

          And you will see how these "non-brothers" will burn them from around the corner and shout at the heroes of fat.
    2. knn54
      knn54 2 December 2021 16: 10
      +4
      Bulakh is a co-founder of the Anti-Corruption Center, which works for grant funds.
      In the summer of 2019, Bulakh ran for the Verkhovna Rada on the lists of the Mikhail Saakashvili's New Forces Movement party. However, this political force was unable to gain five percent and did not enter parliament.


      1. Andrey R2R
        Andrey R2R 2 December 2021 16: 18
        0
        We know, remember, ATP good
      2. Eula
        Eula 2 December 2021 18: 01
        0
        Only 5 percent of the allocated money remained after the cut.
    3. smel
      smel 2 December 2021 16: 10
      +5
      Yes, and our media are good !!! Yesterday, no one even remembered that Zhukov was 125 years old!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. vitvit123
        vitvit123 2 December 2021 16: 34
        +2
        The Red Line channel seems to have remembered .. there was a movie (about him) and it seemed they said about it .. although in general I agree with you ..
    4. The comment was deleted.
  2. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 2 December 2021 15: 56
    0
    Here you are, brothers. Betrayed once, betrayed once.
    1. Cron
      Cron 2 December 2021 16: 06
      +10
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Here you are, brothers. Betrayed once, betrayed once.

      And what have brothers got to do with it, or not? This power has come. We would have a conditional sisyan reach the authorities, too, instead of the St.
      1. Kushka
        Kushka 2 December 2021 16: 55
        +7
        Well, what kind of power? Where did you come from? WHERE?
        73% of the population voted for Kryvyi Rih
        boy and his young team! Voted (including
        and in Kharkov) - they gave a term. Not to like it - where did it come from,
        there and will go.
        One sits in the apiary, the second runs around the courts (23 cases!
        The third man wet his pants and dries in Rostov - where could he be without
        pants come out?
        Have you heard the childish - "Iya-I-I!" - And you too!
        1. Cron
          Cron 2 December 2021 17: 09
          +1
          Well, what kind of power? Where did you come from? WHERE?

          From the project of one oligarch. Is this news to you?
          73% of the population voted for Kryvyi Rih
          boy and his young team! Voted (including
          and in Kharkov) - they gave a term.

          30% voted for him. The rest was done in the second round by Poroshenko's anti-rating. And polls show how they love him now
          If you don't like it, where you came from, it will go there.

          They can walk so endlessly. If only you can stand
          the second runs around the courts (23 cases!

          Decided to take the number in order to put the dust in your eyes? Is there at least something of this weighty? Or have they done so much to show the local kivals the stormy activity and make life easier for Poroshenko in the courts, showing that this is a purely political persecution?
          The third man wet his pants and dries in Rostov - where could he be without
          pants come out?

          I don't think he's drying these pants. Yanyk just threw them out and bought new ones. He arranged his life. Unlike wise and thinking horses
          1. Kushka
            Kushka 2 December 2021 17: 34
            +2
            In many ways, you are right. I reacted to the word "came".
            Right there, next to me, I reacted to the word "poor" - this is
            about 1,5 million Kharkiv residents? Well, yes, of course - the author did not dare
            all of them in a crowd (KHARKOVCHAN!), with babies in "Bandera"
            write down. And the fact that from "UNA-UNSO", "Svoboda", the Radical Party
            not a trace (visible at least) of Tyagnibok remained,
            Farion, etc. have already forgotten everything. Yes they are even at their best times
            received 7% (in European countries they receive more), and
            today they are not in KM, BP, or on TV ...
            The people voted for the Greens! Twice!
            No, again for the fish a pittance - THE POWER HAS COME!
            (Well, yes, of course, KVN is such a floor in the White House,
            And "Quarter 95" is the same, only higher. So they moved.
            One to the Verkhovna Rada, the other to the Cabinet of Ministers, and the director
            all this was put by a Jewish boy from Krivoy Rog from
            ordinary Soviet family)
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 2 December 2021 16: 06
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Here you are, brothers. Betrayed once, betrayed once.

      Andrey Nikolaevich,
      Do you see as your main goal at the forum to emphasize in every possible way the impossibility of friendly relations between the two countries?

      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

      And I always said that you need to hold the gramodyan at your outstretched hand. We spoiled them too much with our brotherhood


      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

      Always Ukrainians were Ukrainians. In one word, x .... s "with all the ensuing consequences. It is impossible to make a person from a village.


      I don't know if you understand, but what you are writing is the idea of ​​a fix of Ukrainian nationalists. the abyss between the fraternal peoples.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 2 December 2021 16: 22
        -3
        This is professional for Andrei Nikolaevich. In one of the disputes, Andrei Nikolaevich said that his desk was littered with applications wishing to acquire Russian citizenship. They bothered him, so he pours out his soul to us, on the forum ...
        1. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich 2 December 2021 23: 12
          0
          Leader of the Redskins, you have a complex that you don't have your own desktop and office?) I understand ... It will pass ..)
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 3 December 2021 00: 01
            +1
            I have no complexes.
            This is probably why I do not try to present myself as someone significant, irreplaceable ...
            And I've tried so many career ups and downs that some "cosmonauts" will envy!
            But you will not be upset - over the years your exaggerated greatness will seem ridiculous to you.
            1. Andrei Nikolaevich
              Andrei Nikolaevich 3 December 2021 06: 21
              0
              Fresh giving ....)
      2. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 2 December 2021 16: 40
        +6
        Impossibility of what? What kind of relationship? Forget this mantra already. It is a hostile state. In which the overwhelming majority chose the next Napoleon. It is their choice and they are responsible for it. The people can and are fraternal. But the country in which they live is hostile to us. It will come to you when their special forces will start to arrange explosions in our cities ??? So they are already trying. Yes, this is very bad. But it is. And you will have to live with it. And apparently hit in the face of the face.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 2 December 2021 16: 47
          +2
          Quote: carstorm 11
          But the country in which they live is hostile to us. It will come to you when their special forces will start to arrange explosions in our cities ???

          since you have learned to distinguish the people from the country, then take the next step - learn how to separate the country from the state.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 2 December 2021 23: 57
            0
            And will that somehow change the fact that 404 is hostile to us anyway? I was just trying not to get cursed about this education.
        2. Flooding
          Flooding 2 December 2021 17: 24
          0
          Quote: carstorm 11
          Impossibility of what? What kind of relationship? Forget this mantra already. It is a hostile state. In which the overwhelming majority chose the next Napoleon. This is their choice and they are responsible for it.

          if you are so scared by the Bandera gang that you are ready to give the country to them to be torn apart,
          Then what is the demand from those who live there and put their lives and health at risk if they show dissent?
          1. Victorio
            Victorio 2 December 2021 18: 21
            0
            Quote: Flood
            then what is the demand from those who live there and put their lives and health at risk, if they show dissent?

            ===
            I don’t know, maybe the contingent is not the same, maybe something didn’t coincide, but in the chat roulette there was no dissent from the inhabitants of Ukraine, well, we will assume that we haven’t come across yet
          2. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 3 December 2021 00: 00
            -2
            Why scared you? I just clearly understand the fact that it will have to be destroyed sooner or later, and no one will sort everyone there. What does it mean to give? This is their country. Their lives and choices; the consequences of this they will have to eat with a spoonful. That is life.
    3. Kushka
      Kushka 2 December 2021 16: 09
      -5
      Here such a brother will come to your house and say:
      - Here, hang this (THIS)! And this is who you have!
      - The wife's father.
      -And this is the one that the Americans freed from the concentration camp,
      so he with theirs red cross to the states and left.
      REMOVE IMMEDIATELY! Not only is it unknown,
      as he was captured, he also betrayed his homeland.
      So how far would you send this brother?
      (well, except in your own house)
      1. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich 2 December 2021 17: 16
        +4
        Quote: Kushka
        , also betrayed his homeland.
        So how far would you send this brother?
        (well, except in your own house)
        From the beginning, the "elder brother" gave "the younger brother" square meters of "Novorossiysk apartment", then in 1939 "Lviv apartment" and "Bukovynsky pristoy" together with "Transcarpathian barn", in 1956 he presented "Crimean apartment".
        And in 1991, the "younger brother" said that he not brother and goes to European family...
        Maybe the "not brother" will return the "donated apartments" and on the remaining "meters" he decides which portraits to hang ...
        angry
        1. Roma 1977
          Roma 1977 2 December 2021 17: 51
          0
          ... On the remaining minus five meters ...
        2. Kushka
          Kushka 2 December 2021 17: 53
          -2
          Yes, this brother has already returned SEVERAL TIMES!
          In 1654 Bohdan Khmelnitsky, bleeding from
          Poland, knelt down and brought Ukraine to the Tsar.
          And what did the Tsar do after a few years -
          GIVEN UKRAINE POLAND!
          In 1914, Russia signed the "obscene"
          Brest Peace - AND GIVEN UKRAINE TO GERMANS!
          In 1920, after shamefully losing the Soviet-Polish
          war, according to the Riga Treaty, Russia GIVEN
          UKRAINE AND BELARUS POLAND (also forgiven
          all debts and paid 35 million in gold).
          Stalin had to return it all in 1939.
          BUT! Less than two years later, Hitler attacked in June 41,
          and in October I was already in Taganrog. Ie. from the first weeks
          war Ukraine for years again by the Germans.
          And finally, at 91, three men drank well and
          the elder said "take as much as you want" - i.e.
          roll on all four sides.
          Well, how many times will we be here and there?
          1. cat Rusich
            cat Rusich 2 December 2021 18: 14
            +1
            Quote: Kushka

            In 1914, Russia signed the "obscene"
            Brest Peace - AND GIVEN UKRAINE TO GERMANS!
            History lesson
            Peace of Brest signed 3 March 1918
            hi
            1. Kushka
              Kushka 2 December 2021 18: 26
              -1
              Is accepted.
              I read somewhere long ago that Natalia Kolontai, and she was
              delegated by the Yekaterinoslav region fought to the last
              (it is known that the unity and the Bolsheviks about the Brest
              there was no peace) - How will I go to Ukraine ?. How will I look people in the eye ?,
              she seemed to be shouting.
        3. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 2 December 2021 20: 43
          -2
          Eck you bent with allegories. What, then, did the kindergarten understand?
          Well, let's use allegories ...
          For a start, you are disingenuous. Not all these gifts from Lviv, but Bukovynskie ... But earned by the sweat and blood of a single, large family of 11 "brothers and sisters." What was your family's name, remember? That's right - the USSR.
          So if you return, then to whom? The family left. Romania, Hungary and Poland? By the way, about the return of gifts ....
          In all decent societies, taking gifts back is bad manners. And there is an example - the balcony overlooking the sea was returned, even documented. But the neighbors did not understand this, they turned away. The manager of the house, however, assured that it’s even better, but for some reason it’s not better ... Well, what would you explain in a childish way, then a gift is not a gift. It's clearer that way.
          And as for the "little brother" ...
          So he grew up! He himself wanted to live separately. Marries, thought of Babenko "from another village." So can you let go? Maybe he will be fine without us and it will become easier for us?
          1. Kushka
            Kushka 2 December 2021 23: 57
            0
            And this is accepted too! (As I understand it, in fact (back and forth) you have no comments?)
            Only here "Babenko" ...... - so not fair (well, remember, as in childhood)
            In every family, not without ... someone Babenko, and someone Vlasov, someone Shukhevych,
            and who has Krasnov ...
            1. The leader of the Redskins
              The leader of the Redskins 3 December 2021 07: 19
              -1
              Actually, he originally wrote to the woman, but destroyed T9 in his own way. It turned out not clear and piquant! laughing
              1. Kushka
                Kushka 3 December 2021 13: 57
                +2
                Well this is necessary, how the person became famous - he lay in the entrance
                in a shirt smeared with tomato juice in the spotlight
                and on you - just typed the letter B - get Babenko!
          2. cat Rusich
            cat Rusich 3 December 2021 16: 17
            +1
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins

            Well, let's use allegories ...

            And as for the "little brother" ...
            So he grew up! He himself wanted to live separately. Marries, thought of Babenko "from another village." So can you let go? Maybe he will be fine without us and it will become easier for us?
            You (Ukraine) have the same "little brother" - they call Donbass
            Maybe let go ...
            wink
            1. The leader of the Redskins
              The leader of the Redskins 3 December 2021 17: 23
              0
              I have neither Donetsk nor Ukraine in Chekhov (Moscow region).
              Don't confuse "divorce" and "amputation".
              In 1991, when they disagreed on drunkenness, there were no claims for "square meters". All papers were signed. And then suddenly “my brother’s head ached”, and you immediately “let him amputate his leg”!
              No, the galley slave said that Donbass is Ukraine, so let it stay there.
              1. cat Rusich
                cat Rusich 3 December 2021 17: 35
                +1
                Quote: Leader of the Redskins

                Don't confuse "divorce" and "amputation".
                In 1991,
                ... And then suddenly “my brother’s head ached”, and you immediately “let him amputate his leg”!
                .
                hi
        4. Astronomy
          Astronomy 2 December 2021 22: 49
          -3
          Quote: cat Rusich
          From the beginning, the "elder brother" gave "the younger brother" square meters of "Novorossiysk apartment", then in 1939 "Lviv apartment" and "Bukovynsky pristoy" together with "Transcarpathian barn", in 1956 he presented "Crimean apartment"

          Were these "gifts"? Look legally sounded
          On November 4, November 1939, the third Extraordinary Session of the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR decided: "To accept Western Ukraine into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic and thereby reunite the Ukrainian people in a single Ukrainian state."

          Although in your opinion it was torn away from Russia and annexed to Ukraine.
          During the revolution in St. Petersburg
          (20) November, the Third Universal of the Central Rada proclaimed the creation of the Ukrainian People's Republic, which included territories, the majority of which are Ukrainians, including the Kherson and Yekaterinoslav provinces and districts of Northern Tavria

          since there was an overwhelming number of Ukrainians there, the Soviet government did not change anything, uniting the Ukrainians in one state, as the empire did.
          Well, Crimea was transferred exclusively for economic purposes, because Crimea is connected precisely with the Ukrainian SSR, and this is true.
          The need to transfer the Crimean region to the Ukrainian SSR in the corresponding decree was explained by "the common economy, territorial proximity and close economic and cultural ties between the Crimean region and the Ukrainian SSR."

          In general, pragmatic goals are everywhere. No gifts. Clean economy.
          Quote: cat Rusich
          And in 1991, the "younger brother" said that he was not a brother and was leaving for a European family ...

          The "older" brother was the first to leave the common family. He carried out a coup in Moscow. He handed out sovereignty to everyone and took nuclear weapons under guarantees. In joint agreements, he confirmed the legality of all administrative borders of the USSR as state ones.
          So no gifts - plus the recognition of all these boundaries by the current president in the documents.
          There should be no childish approach to territorial changes.
        5. Kushka
          Kushka 2 December 2021 23: 38
          0

          About the apartment.
          Look carefully where the Russian State was determined
          its borders and fenced off with defensive lines.
          (according to historians, the Tatars stole hundreds of thousands of people)
          The first question is - who lived there (south of these
          Kharkiv, Poltava, Raisins (TOT Raisins). Oh yes, the aborigines.
          And what did they do? We defended ourselves!
          First foray
          In the summer of 1624, the Turkish admiral Recep Pasha raided Kafa to subdue the Tatars to vassals. The Cossacks decided to use this moment to attack Istanbul. Despite rumors and warnings about the possibility of a terrible attack, the admiral ignored them and left for the Crimea.
          The capital was left without defense. At that time, the Cossacks in the 70-80s. seagulls (Cossack boats) appeared from both sides of the Bosphorus. On the night of July 9, Ukrainians attacked the city, looted and burned down residential and administrative buildings. Beylerbeyi, Vaniköy was destroyed on the European coast.
          In six hours, the Cossacks destroyed rows of magnificent villas and houses, after which (at about 9 am) they returned to the sea.
          Sultan Murad IV, despite the absence of a fleet, decided to punish the Cossacks for the crime. He made up for the absence of galleys with various civilian boats. Hoping to scare the Cossacks with the number of his troops, he sent several hundred ships under the control of Damat Khalil Pasha. Seeing this impromptu armada, the Cossacks waited in the middle of the strait, put their boats in a semicircle and began to wait. The wind gave the Cossacks the opportunity to attack the Turks.
          The Turks continued their offensive, but the Ukrainians did not react. Damat Khalil Pasha thought that if the Turks failed, the Cossacks would inflict an even more significant blow on Istanbul. By evening, the Cossacks were in the coastal waters of Istanbul, and then returned to their homeland.
          Second foray
          Two weeks later, the Ottoman capital encountered at least 150 seagulls, each with a crew of 50. Turkish sources reported floating stocks.
          102 Cossack gulls came to the Ottoman fleet under the command of Pasha, consisting of 25 large galleys, assisted by 300 smaller boats (probably 25-50 people each). The battle lasted for several days; In the end, the Cossacks defeated the Turkish fleet and then attacked Istanbul.

          The second question is - who came to whose apartment?
          1. cat Rusich
            cat Rusich 3 December 2021 16: 31
            0
            Quote: Kushka


            The second question is - who came to whose apartment?
            Russ 9-11 century
            Find on the map the name of Ukraine or Ukrainians ...
            hi
            1. Kushka
              Kushka 3 December 2021 16: 55
              0
              I understand that you have found a "convenient" card for you,
              against "mine", while ignoring my question.
              Above, I have already "counted" how many times Ukraine
              was abandoned by Russia.
              "My" map (1648), apparently one of the first such periods.
              Due to the very difficult situation in the war with Poland
              (they took Smolensk) all forces were thrown to the north.
              The Tatars immediately took advantage of the weakness of the southern
              borders, staged a ruthless terror right up to Voronezh.
              Plundering and setting fire to villages, they took prisoners from small to
              great. Moreover, when they were driven, if the elderly prisoner did not
              could already walk, taught young soldiers to kill. Everything, that
              managed to drive, sold.
              Hence the idea to fence in, to strengthen the BORDER
              to put it bluntly - to build fortifications (more than 600 km in total) -
              these were shafts, grooves and notches. Their remains are visible today.
              So I asked what kind of people lived south of this border,
              from which the Russian State was fenced off
              in Kharkov (the branch is about Kharkov), Poltava and further south
              to the sea. How they survived, how they defended themselves,
              fought, took Istanbul. What were their names?
              1. cat Rusich
                cat Rusich 3 December 2021 17: 00
                0
                Quote: Kushka
                What were their names?
                Russian
                yes
                1. Kushka
                  Kushka 3 December 2021 17: 04
                  0
                  I completed your task - I looked
                  Ukrainians on the map presented to you.
                  They are not there.
                  Now you will look for Russians there.
                  I can't do it, maybe I'm like
                  techie (not a historian), I don't see something.
                  1. cat Rusich
                    cat Rusich 3 December 2021 17: 07
                    0
                    Quote: Kushka
                    I completed your task - I looked
                    Ukrainians on the map presented to you.
                    They are not there.
                    Now you will look for Russians there.
                    I can't do it, maybe I'm like
                    techie (not a historian), I don't see something.

                    Russ - Russianich - Russiansky - Russiansky land
                    hi
                    1. Kushka
                      Kushka 3 December 2021 17: 53
                      0
                      Have you heard:
                      1. "Cabinet" - this is when a person comes in, and he DOES NOT!
                      2. A high rank in the KGB of the USSR - what did you bring me here -
                      What do you need to explain- PARNOGRAPHY- THIS IS WHEN IN PAIRS.
                      And what have you pinned-the second consul in socks !!!
                      1. cat Rusich
                        cat Rusich 3 December 2021 18: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Kushka

                        First question - who lived there?
                        ... The Cossacks decided to use this moment to attack Istanbul.
                        seagulls (Cossack boats)
                        Ukrainians attacked the city,
                        In six hours the Cossacks destroyed
                        , decided to punish the Cossacks for the crime.
                        Hoping to scare the Cossacks,
                        the Cossacks were waiting.
                        102 Cossack gulls
                        , the Cossacks defeated the Turkish fleet,
                        You write about the Cossacks, the word Ukrainians only mention it twice.
                        Nicely fought Cossacks with the Turks and Tatars.
                        So why is the state around Kiev called "Ukraine"And not "Kiev Sich" ?
                        hi
                      2. Kushka
                        Kushka 3 December 2021 21: 28
                        0
                        If you have noticed, this is "not me writing", but I quote from Wiki, (rather humpbacked). He also authoritatively writes on this topic from St.
                        scientist-historian Tairova-Yakovleva. There is a lot of things (until 1654,
                        to Pereyaslavskaya Rada). And about how the Cossacks burned Moscow
                        during the Troubles, which the Tsar remembered and did not really want reunification.
                        His Nikon and the Messenger of the Throne convinced that the spread
                        Orthodoxy to White and Little Russia will strengthen Muscovy. They also fought for France against Spain, then vice versa (when they did not pay) and very successfully. Well, I already wrote about Istanbul.
                        Interestingly, as a scientist, she insists that until the end
                        17th century, historical science does not use the term PEOPLE.
                        There were no them then, there were tribal and religious communities.
                        And here you have Russians all around, and in Chersonesos too! Would you be in
                        co-authors to Samsonov. That 300-year-old yoke did not have any (quite recently he presented all this "reasonedly" at VO). Just Russian-Tatars. came to visit the Russian-Moksha as brothers. Well, what a drunken brothers without a fight. Well, they burned Moscow, and they burned Kazan for them, and there it came to Kiev - BUT! no yoke and no Mongols were! Ay, well done!
                        It was ONE RUSSIAN PEOPLE! From the Russian-Evenki (ugh, you, a little
                        was not Russian-Japanese) and until the very Russian-Chukhonts!
                        (We don't take the Prussians-pah on them)
    4. igor67
      igor67 2 December 2021 18: 02
      0
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Here you are, brothers. Betrayed once, betrayed once.

      Was it not in the Russian Federation that the legally elected Supreme Soviet was shot out of tanks? Or have you already forgotten? What then was it not Maidan? Only in Russian
      1. Kushka
        Kushka 2 December 2021 18: 32
        +1
        This DOESN'T COUNT! It's not fair! (as in childhood)
        But in Ukraine, stupid uncles could not
        persuade the students to disperse, staged a massacre
        THIS IS A Fascist coup!
        And the fact that immediately after that, the NATIONAL
        presidential elections, NATIONAL elections
        Parliament - it doesn't count (like in childhood)
  3. prior
    prior 2 December 2021 16: 02
    +2
    The renaming resulted in Khrenznaetkogo Avenue.
  4. Alexga
    Alexga 2 December 2021 16: 02
    0
    What is there to want from these wretched people ?!
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 2 December 2021 16: 33
      -4
      Eka you famously - one and a half million
      with one chokh they wrote down the poor.
      1. Alexga
        Alexga 2 December 2021 17: 46
        0
        So, alas, it happened when very close friends began to carry outright nationalist crap since the age of 14. And these are Russian residents of Kharkov.
        1. Tamparu
          Tamparu 2 December 2021 19: 55
          0
          Quote: AlexGa
          So, alas, it happened when very close friends began to carry outright nationalist crap since the age of 14. And these are Russian residents of Kharkov.

          And for this reason, you put a "cross" on all Kharkiv residents? Capitalist Russia for the sake of its interests merged in Ukraine, and this happened clearly and systematically, starting in 1991, initially placing the interests of the Russian elite above the interests of the common people of Russia and Ukraine. And now this elite, having understood, perhaps, their "cant", is playing off the common people of Russia and Ukraine. The situation in Ukraine is somewhat similar to the situation in Russia .. And in Russia and Ukraine, ordinary people just go out into the street and state their demands, claims, are not able to. Because what? Yes, because the authorities will find a bunch of tools that will sweep these issues under the carpet. And what about the dissatisfied? Right! Immediately there will be problems with power under any sauce. And laws under this sauce have already been drawn, in one, in another state. And if they didn’t draw it, they will quickly finish it and accept it "retroactively".
          Something like this .. Dear ... hi
          1. Alexga
            Alexga 2 December 2021 21: 15
            0
            Yes, while I have put an end to them now, it is their choice of their government, which made a decision. As for their lack of election rights, it reminded me of December 1986. Then the Military Tribunal considered the Vasyura case. 19 of his former subordinates were brought to the meetings. So they all said in unison that they were just following the order. So, to comprehend the current moment, you need another Khatyn? Although, there was also the Palace of Trade Unions in Odessa. And that the Russian city of Kharkov rose up against this crime? We can say that they did not have enough strength, so there are Donetsk and Lugansk. So, let the Ukrainian people deal with themselves, these are their problems and their choice.
            1. Tamparu
              Tamparu 2 December 2021 22: 15
              0
              Quote: AlexGa
              Yes, while I have put an end to them now, it is their choice of their government, which made a decision. As for their lack of election rights, it reminded me of December 1986. Then the Military Tribunal considered the Vasyura case. 19 of his former subordinates were brought to the meetings. So they all said in unison that they were just following the order. So, to comprehend the current moment, you need another Khatyn? Although, there was also the Palace of Trade Unions in Odessa. And that the Russian city of Kharkov rose up against this crime? We can say that they did not have enough strength, so there are Donetsk and Lugansk. So, let the Ukrainian people deal with themselves, these are their problems and their choice.

              Based on your logic, all citizens of the Ukrainian SSR, in particular the city of Chigirin at that time, should have answered for Vasyura? Your logic is not clear, Dear ..
              1. Alexga
                Alexga 2 December 2021 22: 28
                0
                No, my logic is that each person is responsible for their actions or inaction.
                1. Tamparu
                  Tamparu 3 December 2021 00: 24
                  0
                  Quote: AlexGa
                  No, my logic is that each person is responsible for their actions or inaction.

                  Then, based on your logic, you are guilty of the death of tens of millions of our former fellow citizens from the USSR. A curtain... hi
  5. Graz
    Graz 2 December 2021 16: 09
    0
    I hope the responsible structures are recording all these guardians of Bandera, and as soon as they are immediately called to account. And families can be deep to the north and there is no need to be ashamed of it.
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 2 December 2021 16: 21
      +1
      We ourselves have renamed everything in a row, and there is a different country, to what answer will someone call them?
    2. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 2 December 2021 17: 52
      -1
      North is not rubber. Bury everyone in the planet.
  6. Roma 1977
    Roma 1977 2 December 2021 16: 10
    +3
    Symptomatic. He criticized Zhukov for unreasonable losses and therefore ran to the enemy in order to bring real, justified losses to his country. This is the whole of Ukraine. Hero of the nation. Level up, juniors.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 2 December 2021 17: 46
      -2
      But the man is clearly a good fighter.
      1. Roma 1977
        Roma 1977 2 December 2021 17: 57
        +1
        Like Vlasov ...
    2. Kushka
      Kushka 2 December 2021 18: 02
      0
      I, who did not smell gunpowder (I was a radio operator in the navy), can
      (well, very distantly) imagine: past the war,
      general, order bearer - could he HAVE HIS OPINION?
      HAD HE HAVE A RIGHT TO IT?
      Or are we now going to tell him to shut his mouth?
      1. Roma 1977
        Roma 1977 2 December 2021 18: 07
        0
        HM. The general of the army committed high treason. Perhaps this is because he had a gentle, sensitive nature. Maybe children's psychological trauma affected. Return his pension, title and awards!
        1. Kushka
          Kushka 2 December 2021 18: 17
          -2
          That's why Yeltsin returned (read the last paragraph of the article)
  7. avia12005
    avia12005 2 December 2021 16: 15
    0
    Corrupt women are not a court. There is avenue of Heroes of Stalingrad nearby. And they will get to him.
    1. private person
      private person 2 December 2021 16: 40
      +1
      There is avenue of Heroes of Stalingrad nearby.

      Or maybe you already got there? Or do they see and consider the fascists as heroes?
    2. isv000
      isv000 2 December 2021 16: 55
      -1
      Quote: avia12005
      Corrupt women are not a court. There is avenue of Heroes of Stalingrad nearby. And they will get to him.

      In vain you out loud ... Somewhere in the city you tensed ... belay
  8. Der Spiegel
    Der Spiegel 2 December 2021 16: 25
    -7
    Can they decide for themselves who the streets are named after?
    1. vitvit123
      vitvit123 2 December 2021 16: 38
      +1
      Yes, they can decide for themselves ..
      And we can have our own opinion about their solution?
      1. Der Spiegel
        Der Spiegel 2 December 2021 16: 40
        0
        undoubtedly! But can the story of the renaming be a pretext for insulting a neighboring country? or do we need to be like them?
        1. Roma 1977
          Roma 1977 2 December 2021 17: 54
          -1
          Everything is so unstable ... Today - neighboring, tomorrow - internal.
          1. Der Spiegel
            Der Spiegel 2 December 2021 20: 12
            0
            the calf has not yet hatched, and the grandmother is already with the buckets?
            1. Roma 1977
              Roma 1977 3 December 2021 07: 55
              -1
              And in Crimea everything happened with the speed of Usain Bolt ... the partners did not even have time to meow.
          2. Astronomy
            Astronomy 2 December 2021 23: 01
            -4
            Quote: Roma-1977
            Everything is so unstable ... Today - neighboring, tomorrow - internal.

            with such a "love" for, perhaps, an "internal country" as representatives of Russia write in the comments here, we can conclude that love will be grafted exclusively with a whip.
            As for the renaming, one war hero was changed to another. Moreover, this is another trial. If you submit another one, you can return it again.
            By law, street residents can change their names at least once a year. Disagree with the existing one. In general, their right to change their street.
            By the way, the name of the Heroes of Stalingrad does not fall under the law on de-communization. But it all depends on persistence in the courts. And in Ukraine it looks like a booth. They didn't come, then they came, lost, appealed, again the court-opposite decision ... and again in a circle.
            Even having won the court with any name, residents can freely disagree with the new one. And then a new name is needed.
            Democracy to the fullest laughing
        2. vitvit123
          vitvit123 2 December 2021 18: 31
          +2
          Well, first of all: together we, or maybe differently, is a separate conversation ..,
          And secondly: if we have a negative opinion about their actions, we are not to blame ...?
          1. Der Spiegel
            Der Spiegel 2 December 2021 20: 10
            0
            Did I write about the negative itself? in my opinion about the way of expression)
            1. vitvit123
              vitvit123 2 December 2021 20: 49
              0
              And how can we express the negative in a good way, especially when a strong hatred similar to paranoia emanates from this education? Who jump like crazy and shout that we need to be killed ...
              1. Der Spiegel
                Der Spiegel 2 December 2021 20: 57
                0
                As befits an "elephant" going its own way, despite the evil pug). Stay cool. Naturally, this is just my opinion.
                1. vitvit123
                  vitvit123 3 December 2021 07: 45
                  +2
                  For me, it's better to step on the pug .. why do you need it, if the elephant has problems from it? Came and went further ..
              2. Astronomy
                Astronomy 2 December 2021 23: 06
                -3
                Quote: vitvit123
                all the more so when a strong hatred similar to paranoia emanates from this education? Who jump like crazy and shout that we need to be killed ...

                tell me what if it's the other way around? Let's say even here in the comments everything is far from "love". Offensive plans. blows, all to Magadan, etc., slogans to bomb and "liberate" ... I am silent about the derogatory names and distortions.
                How to react to them then? After all, instead of discussion, everything rolls into the same hatred.
                Moreover, it is far from clear who is jumping more with the call to kill (or "liberate" from life, up there they will figure out who is Bandera and who is his own)
                Ukrainians or Russians.
                The propaganda machines have done a pretty good job. And there is no one to blame, and the second is not to blame ... both states.
                1. Roma 1977
                  Roma 1977 3 December 2021 07: 47
                  0
                  The propaganda machine has done very poorly. Until now, there are people in Russia who believe that: "You need to be patient a little, and the Ukrainians will take up their minds." They won't. For their propaganda machine works much better, with no alternative, more totalitarian.
                  1. vitvit123
                    vitvit123 3 December 2021 08: 50
                    0
                    We have to agree with you ..
                2. vitvit123
                  vitvit123 3 December 2021 07: 49
                  +2
                  I do not agree ... I have already spoken with more than one Ukrainian "comrade" ...
                  Yes, I agree about propaganda machines ... but let's go back and remember who started first? Who jumped and shouted for me to go to the gilyak? After you shout at Gilyak, I think we have the right to answer ...
                  Ukraine is to blame for this, not us. And don't forget about it. They started first, so we have the right to answer, we now choose the answer ourselves, and we will be right with any choice ..
    2. URAL72
      URAL72 2 December 2021 16: 44
      +1
      Smart people say, "Do you want to name a street? Build it!"
      1. Der Spiegel
        Der Spiegel 2 December 2021 20: 14
        0
        it's not about the name, but about the renaming. And those who named Georgy Konstantinovich were hardly involved in the construction. Here in Odessa and in Bessarabia, where Georgy Konstantinovich really left a significant contribution to the history of the above places - yes. And here, everything is very controversial. And this Grigorenko is not a fascist, but quite a fighting general. And he criticized not the USSR, but only the power parasitizing on the ideas of the USSR.
    3. isv000
      isv000 2 December 2021 16: 55
      -1
      Quote: Der Spiegel
      Can they decide for themselves who the streets are named after?

      In our city?!. stop
      1. Der Spiegel
        Der Spiegel 2 December 2021 20: 15
        0
        well ... if it is YOUR, then it will not be difficult for YOU to rename it as you like)
  9. Kushka
    Kushka 2 December 2021 16: 41
    0
    In the States, I don't remember under which president,
    law enforcement agencies overdid it and
    changed the order of movement and passage near
    the presidential residence in Washington.
    The residents of the city gathered and declared:
    "We in Washington are very proud of the fact that
    our city has been selected for the residence of the President.
    But if this to ... does not like our order,
    then let it fall from here on all four sides.
    And we will walk as we walked and ride as we drove. "
    And everyone played back.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 2 December 2021 17: 37
      0
      Well, sometimes they say that a large number of weapons of the US population has only negative sides. smile
    2. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 2 December 2021 18: 08
      0
      Was that at a time when blacks were not allowed to sit on white benches?
    3. Astronomy
      Astronomy 2 December 2021 23: 23
      -3
      Quote: Kushka
      "We, the people of Washington

      By the way, street renaming is common in many countries, including Russia, Ukraine and the United States.
      And often political, it would seem, where is the United States to Russia (somewhere the country changes every hundred years, and the streets are even more often)
      Ukraine (where you can change everything and everyone very often)
      In the United States, for example, the Washington City Council unanimously approved a bill to rename Boris Nemzov Plaza. Similarly, in Prague there is. There 4500 people wished for a petition.
      True, they are far from the Russian and Ukrainian bacchanalia with a change of names. lol
  10. tatra
    tatra 2 December 2021 16: 57
    -1
    Among the enemies of the communists, it was only the Bolsheviks-communists after the October Revolution that had no right to change, destroy, rename anything, but after their seizure of the USSR republics they themselves believe that they have every right to do so.
  11. Fisherman
    Fisherman 2 December 2021 17: 18
    -3
    Let them rename ... for now ... "renamers" - in pencil, figuratively, then naturally!
  12. AshPoseidon
    AshPoseidon 2 December 2021 17: 27
    +3
    It is clear where the wind is blowing from. After all, Grigorenko is a dissident and human rights activist.
    1. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 2 December 2021 17: 56
      +4
      And in Russian: a troublemaker and a provocateur ...
  13. hohohol
    hohohol 2 December 2021 18: 34
    +1
    In Ukraine, there was a refusal of the object - a general loss of mind and memory.
  14. Russs05
    Russs05 2 December 2021 19: 40
    +1
    The "people" of Kharkov, who have forgotten the past, have no future
  15. DPN
    DPN 2 December 2021 22: 36
    0
    Unfortunately, we are strangers for a long time, and the government is everywhere, POWER will do whatever it wants, it is always right, even if it is not right.
  16. st2st
    st2st 2 December 2021 23: 58
    +1
    Small township and farmsteadism have always been inherent in Ukrainians (read Gogol), this country formation has forgotten that it exists thanks to the USSR
  17. Romanenko
    Romanenko 3 December 2021 08: 30
    0
    So it would have been better called Bulakh Avenue, the winner of Marshal Zhukov, so much cooler.
    Fools!
  18. Chever
    Chever 3 December 2021 11: 48
    0
    Well, what else to expect then? They now have a NYOKH under the confusing name "decommunization"
  19. EEE226
    EEE226 3 December 2021 18: 14
    0
    And here is Eltsin!