American Luger émigré anarchist

106
American Luger émigré anarchist
Emigrants from Europe are sailing to the USA

"... Leave, ancient lands, the praise of the ages",
Calls out in silence. Give me your tired people,
All thirsty to breathe freely, abandoned in need,
From the narrow shores of the persecuted poor and orphans,
So send them homeless and exhausted to me
I raise my torch at the golden gate! ”
"New Colossus" E. Lazarus.

History firearms weapons. Who in the century before last and in the last century was engaged in the creation of new types of weapons?

O! They were people of various professions, not only engineers. Among them there were dentists, and far from one, an important role in the arms business was played by the seller of removable men's collars, and then his widow, among the armourers there were a photographer and a glassmaker - all professions cannot be enumerated.



And there were those who did not have a diploma of technical education at all, but ... they were still engaged in the design of weapons, and sometimes they even got something very original. Which, of course, should be told.

Joseph Reifgraber


Therefore, today our story will be about a pistol (and also its creator), which was designed by Joseph Joachim Reifgraber, who was born on August 16, 1856 in Austria, then emigrated to the United States in the 80s, where he died on October 15, 1938 at the age of 82. , which, given the hardships of life at that time and the quality of medicine, should be recognized as an achievement. He was married, left two children - a daughter and a son.

A very important touch in his biography.

A man he was a machinist by profession and a convinced anarchist in his views, however, he did not throw bombs and did not shoot at presidents, like other anarchists. But in the USA he published the anarchist newspaper in German Die Parole and acted as a trade union activist.

He did not have an engineering education, however, in those years, the lack of a diploma did not bother anyone. A person knows how to do something with his head and hands - already an engineer. If only with hands - then a master mechanic. But he was an extraordinary person, this is certainly, but what can I say - just talented, albeit a little ... strange.

He began to engage in the design of weapons rather late. At the very beginning of the nineteenth century, when he was already under fifty. And ... he received patents for his developments. Moreover, his developments, although they were not embodied in metal, were very interesting.

Well, for example, US patent No. 729,413 dated May 26, 1903 for "Automatic firearms."

He offered nothing less than an original type of gas-assisted automatic rifle.


Diagram of an automatic rifle with an original gas engine from patent No. 729,413. The barrel had two gas outlet channels through which the powder gases entered the pipe surrounding the barrel and affected the cylindrical breech, which moved inside the cylindrical receiver and compressed the return spring, which pushed the breech back. At the same time, the striker caught on the toothed lever of the trigger, pressing on which released it, and through the hole in the bolt he hit the cartridge primer in the chamber.

As you can see, a free bolt scheme was used, that is, the barrel and the bolt were not fastened at the time of the shot, which required, firstly, a heavy bolt, and secondly, a powerful spring. That is, his gun, if it were made, could not shoot powerful rifle cartridges, but it would be quite suitable for firing pistol and revolver ammunition.


On the same principle, they were offered an original automatic cannon with store food and also with the removal of powder gases from the bore.

Reifgraber pistol



And now this is a pistol. Moreover, the pistol is very unusual in its design. Diagram from US patent No. 929,491 dated July 27, 1909.

Here, as you can see, is a self-loading pistol that looks very similar to a Luger. But in a constructive sense, this is not a Luger at all in all respects, but a very original pistol. First of all, pay attention to the barrel, which was encased on this pistol. On it, near the front sight itself, there were two gas vents. Through them, the powder gases entered the chamber formed by the space between the front part of the barrel casing and the guide belt on the barrel itself, which was an obturator, and ... gave a certain impulse to the bolt, or rather, strengthened (according to the author's intention) the barrel recoil momentum when fired.

The barrel itself, which was placed inside the frame of the pistol, was connected to the massive barrel frame, and it was along this very frame that the bolt slid. But back after the shot, both the barrel and the bolt rolled back together at first 10 mm and only after that they were disengaged.

Locking the barrel with the bolt was carried out using a swinging lever located on top of the bolt, all installed on the same frame, made in one piece with the barrel.


Diagram of the automatic pistol from US patent No. 929,491 dated July 27, 1909

When the barrel and bolt were in the forward position, the front lever arm lowered and, resting against the bolt, jammed it, making it impossible to move relative to the barrel. When the barrel was rolled back together with the bolt, the rear lever arm lowered, hitting the rounding of the rear frame plug, and the front one rose and no longer prevented the bolt from moving back.

As you can see, the design was very ingenious and at the same time simple, and the locking was very reliable, no worse than that of a parabellum.

And this did not exhaust the advantages of this pistol, but ... there were also serious "buts" in it.

First of all, it is completely incomprehensible why for his army pistol, and this pistol was developed precisely as an army pistol, Reifgraber used a relatively low-power revolving cartridge .38 S&W (modern name .38 S&W Short), which appeared on the market back in 1877 and was equipped with ... black smoky gunpowder! It is possible that he was seduced by the popularity of this cartridge, as well as the fact that at that time they had already begun to equip him with not only smoky, but also smokeless gunpowder.

Actually, it is difficult to imagine how the gas mechanism of this pistol would function, if it had fired cartridges with black powder - the space between the barrel and its casing would have to be constantly cleaned! And after all this despite the fact that there already existed Luger 9x19, and Mauser 7,63x25, and cartridges developed by John Browning ...


Here it is - this cartridge, the sixth from the left. Caliber in millimeters 9,04 ...

Reifgraber pistols of this type in the interval 1906-1912. designed two .38 and .32 calibers. The "thirty-eighth" has a slightly longer handle, as well as the receiver.


Pistol .32 caliber (7,9 mm) 1906. Photo by Rock Island Auction Company

By the way, this cartridge also had a rim and a light lead shellless bullet weighing from 4,6 to 6,0 grams, with a muzzle energy of up to 156 J and an initial velocity of 215 m / s. Moreover, this cartridge was filled with black powder until 1940, and only later they began to fill it with smokelessness.

And again, it is not clear why this cartridge and this caliber, and again with black powder ...

Can we assume a certain blinkeredness of the designer, that he, perhaps, did not know the American realities of that time very well?

But no: he made his pistol together with Charles F. Lefever, who developed the Union automatic revolver, produced by the Union Farms company, which, by the way, took over the production of the Reifgraber pistol and produced it in quantities from about 1910 to 1912 ... about 100 pieces!

It is interesting that the designer offered his pistol to the American army, but was somewhat late, since she had already decided on the choice in favor of the M1911 Colt.

Meanwhile, it would probably be worth remaking this pistol for cartridges of 9 mm and 11,43 mm and shooting from it. It is very possible that in this case he would have shown, well, let's say, far from the worst result.

And this pistol was distinguished by the fact that it was very convenient to disassemble it for cleaning, which, too, not every sample can boast.


The pistol and its barrel together with the frame. The protrusion of the extractor on the frame is clearly visible. Photo Rock Island Auction Company

Disassembly was carried out very simply: the magazine is removed, then the disassembly lever on the pistol frame on the right should be turned down 90 degrees, after which the entire trigger unit can be removed from the handle, and it also plays the role of a handle fuse!

At the same time, this mechanism serves as a shutter delay: if the hand does not tightly grip the handle, when the shutter is pulled back, it is locked in the rear position until the handle safety is pressed. Having removed the trigger unit, the trigger can be removed through the back of the handle, the frame of which is similar to a tuning fork, since the magazine passes through it.


This is how they were advertised together ... two losers!

The plug in the rear part of the gun frame must be turned 45 degrees for the semicircular protrusion and removed together with the guide rod of the return spring and the spring itself. Now, through the opened hole, a barrel with a frame and a bolt is removed.

Moreover, the barrel is an assembly of three parts: the barrel itself, fastened to the frame, a bolt sliding along this frame, and a locking lever attached to the bolt. The extractor is a simple rectangular protrusion on the barrel frame. When the bolt moves back along it, it goes through the cut inside the bolt and pushes the sleeve out. Also in the bolt there is a hole for the return spring, which is put on the guide spoke.


Reifgraber pistol. Right view. Clearly visible: the handle fuse protruding from the handle, the disassembly lever above it and the ribbed bolt protrusions. The pistol mechanism is perfectly protected from any contamination! Photo Rock Island Auction Company

As already noted here, about a hundred of these pistols were produced.

An attempt was made to make a pistol chambered for .32 ACP (7.65mm Browning), which fired smokeless powder, by replacing the barrel and magazine, but nothing good came of it.

Moreover, pistols chambered for .32 no longer had gas vents: the pistol worked as it should even without a gas actuator ... But in the end, the design of this pistol did not work.


Reifgraber pistol. Left view. The massive fluted safety button is clearly visible. Photo Rock Island Auction Company

Well, its author himself, having lived to his advanced (even more than advanced by the standards of that time) years, died quietly and was buried in the New Cemetery of Belehem Memorial Park in St. Louis, Missouri, USA. The new homeland honored him ... with a very memorable burial.
106 comments
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  1. +9
    6 December 2021 18: 06
    Thank you for an interesting article about a little-known pistol and inventor.
    1. +8
      6 December 2021 18: 29
      I join thanks to the Author! The article is interesting, but the "American" was not included for me, as well as the "Finn" from Vyacheslav's Sunday article.
      There is something missing in them, which is the sophistication of the "German"!
      Regards, Vlad!
      1. +8
        6 December 2021 19: 15
        "is there something missing in them" in the pistols or the creator?
        Namesake, good evening. Thanks to V.O. for his material.
        Thanks to what we can get worn out in a friendly company
        1. +3
          6 December 2021 19: 18
          In the gland!
          Good evening Vlad!
          1. +5
            6 December 2021 19: 57
            I agree: Borchard-Luger looks more beautiful, but the "fin" is beautiful in its own way.
            Someone's me like Astra, a client for beauty
  2. +10
    6 December 2021 18: 14
    did not throw bombs and did not shoot at presidents, like other anarchists

    Anarchism, as a doctrine, denies any violence against a person, with the exception of cases of defense of oneself, one's loved ones, one's homeland / country.

    Thanks for the article! It was very interesting and informative.
    1. +13
      6 December 2021 18: 25
      Quote: Anarchist
      Anarchism, as a doctrine, denies any violence against a person, with the exception of cases of defense of oneself, one's loved ones, one's homeland / country.

      Describe examples of how other anarchists have brilliantly ignored this principle? Here is just one of these: the killer of President William McKinley was the unemployed Polish immigrant Leon Frank Czolgosz, who fell under the influence of American anarchists, that is, he became an anarchist and ... went and shot the president of the country that gave him shelter. And the president did not threaten his life personally, nor did he threaten Poland ... So in words, one thing, but in life, more often than not!
      1. +8
        6 December 2021 18: 37
        You can also remember the French "Action Direct", not to mention Makhno.
        1. +9
          6 December 2021 19: 35
          Actually, even without Makhno, the anarchists had well-known names. For example, Benito Mussolini, in his youth, was fond of anarchism.
          Actually, from: Kropotkin or Bakunin, Mahatma Gandhi will turn out badly. Other type
      2. +12
        6 December 2021 18: 53
        I know these examples very well. You can talk a lot about them ...
        Now, too, many are shouting they say: anarchy is the mother of order. They just don't know anything about it. And the so-called "anarchists" of the civil war in the end turned out to be ordinary bandits, well, or deliberately distorted the essence of the teachings for their own good.
        I like the Black Guard example better. Those guys shot their own people for robbery or robbery. They really had discipline and order.
        1. +11
          6 December 2021 19: 24
          Quote: Anarchist
          I like the Black Guard example better.

          Jules Verne had an unfinished novel "The Shipwreck of Jonothan." There, the main character was a certain anarchist who, in every possible way protecting this principle of freedom for everyone and in everything, eventually realized that freedom is always limited in human society. Realizing this, he fled from people to Tierra del Fuego. But society got him there. As a result - having spent a lot of time and effort to re-educate people (the team of the same "Jonothan") - he fled even further ...
          Vern is said to have portrayed Mikhail Bakunin, the first ideologue of anarchism, in the protagonist.
          1. +4
            6 December 2021 19: 59
            Unfortunately, I haven't read this novel of his ...
            1. +2
              7 December 2021 15: 36
              Quote: kalibr
              Unfortunately, I haven't read this novel of his ...

              We published it in the 1960s.
              Link to the text of the book: [media = https: //bookscafe.net/book/vern_zhyul-korablekrushenie_dzhonatana-66286.html]
              1. +1
                7 December 2021 18: 08
                Based on the novel "Zhangada", an interesting adventure film "The Secret of Joao Corral" has been filmed. I saw him, that's why I didn't read the novel ...
                1. +1
                  7 December 2021 19: 00
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Based on the novel "Zhangada", an interesting adventure film "The Secret of Joao Corral" has been filmed. I saw him, that's why I didn't read the novel ...

                  But I haven't watched the film, but I read (in my youth) both novels. "Jonothan" is more interesting, since "Zhangada" is a typical Vernov novel, of which he has many. And in "Jonothan" there is a lot of human psychology, reflections and reflections of the protagonist, quite a lot of misanthropy, which was not traditional for Jules Verne. One word: the last, unfinished novel ...
                  I would say this book is closer to War and Peace than Captain Grant's Children ect.
                  1. 0
                    7 December 2021 19: 49
                    Quote: PilotS37
                    the last, unfinished novel ..

                    Isn't it "Hector Servadak" (or "The Secret of Wilhelm Storitz") I don't know which one is more unfinished ...
                    1. 0
                      8 December 2021 13: 42
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Isn't it "Hector Servadak" (or "The Secret of Wilhelm Storitz") I don't know which one is more unfinished ...

                      Well, it's hard to say ...
                      1. 0
                        9 December 2021 08: 10
                        Quote: PilotS37
                        Well, it's hard to say ...

                        So I don’t know. I thought to ask you ...
          2. 0
            7 December 2021 04: 05
            Quote: PilotS37
            Vern is said to have portrayed Mikhail Bakunin, the first ideologue of anarchism, in the protagonist.

            It's funny, but V.I. Lenin was an enemy, in words at least, of the state as such. But the need for the survival of Soviet Russia put everything in its place.
        2. +6
          6 December 2021 20: 48
          Anarchy, the mother of order, is a wonderful but utopian slogan. This is when, roughly speaking, you live freely, but without causing harm or inconvenience to anyone. Also all who are nearby live. Idyll. It is a pity that it is utopian. Here and in the family, usually, the way of life does not work, what can we say about society ...
    2. +7
      6 December 2021 18: 27
      Quote: Anarchist
      It was very interesting and informative.

      Since it is informative and interesting, then my task is completed.
      1. +11
        6 December 2021 19: 01
        Vyacheslav, good evening and thank you very much! ))
        Previously, he did not know anything about this inventor and his works. In my opinion, a pistol chambered for such a cartridge was unnecessarily complicated and, as a pocket weapon, and even more so an army weapon, did not justify itself, and given the gas outlet system, and even with black powder, is it any wonder that the weapon did not "go".
        It would be interesting to know why the model did not go under the .32 ACP cartridge? Although, it can be assumed that against the background of other, more successful systems, this design was clearly inferior.
        together with Charles F. Lefever, who developed the Union automatic revolver from Union Farms

        Well, if you remembered it, then I decided to post a photo.

        Cartridge - .32 S&W
    3. +11
      6 December 2021 18: 32
      Thanks for the article! It was very interesting and informative
      Let me join! I knew nothing about this pistol, the more interesting it was to get acquainted with the sample of design ideas presented by the author! Thanks!
    4. +10
      6 December 2021 19: 14
      Quote: Anarchist

      Anarchism, as a doctrine, denies any violence against a person, with the exception of cases of defense of oneself, one's loved ones, one's homeland / country.

      You just told about one of the directions of anarchism - about the so-called anarcho-pacifism. Leo Tolstoy was, by the way, an adherent of this trend. But to call Tolstoy an anarchist, in the direct sense of the word, the language does not turn.
      1. +8
        6 December 2021 19: 37
        Quote: Anarchist
        Anarchism, as a doctrine, denies any violence against a person, with the exception of cases of defense of oneself, one's loved ones, one's homeland / country.

        Quote: kalibr
        Here is just one of these: the killer of President William McKinley was the unemployed Polish immigrant Leon Frank Czolgos, who fell under the influence of American anarchists. That is, he became an anarchist and ... went and shot the president of the country that gave him shelter.

        Quote: 3x3zsave
        You can also remember the French "Action Direct", not to mention Makhno

        Quote: Anarchist
        I like the Black Guard example better.

        Quote: Proxima
        You just told about one of the directions of anarchism - about the so-called anarcho-pacifism. Leo Tolstoy was, by the way, an adherent of this trend.

        All of them are even Lev Nikolaevich Tolstoy "sons" before the patriarch of Russian "anarchism" Mikhail Aleksandrovich Bakunin. Here he is an anarchist-anarchist !!!
        Just one example. During the uprising in Dresden, after the ultimatum of the Prussian and Saxon generals that they would open fire from artillery pieces, he placed the Sistine Madonna on the barricades by Raphael and ... answered the parliamentarians “shoot”.
        They say, after reading about this in diplomatic dispatches, Nicholas I exclaimed - "Glory to the Russian artillerymen."
        1. +7
          6 December 2021 19: 46
          Did he carry her alone? She is healthy, more than 5 square meters. m. in area!
          1. +6
            6 December 2021 19: 50
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Did he carry her alone? She is healthy, more than 5 square meters. m. in area!

            The story is silent about this.
            1. +7
              6 December 2021 19: 56
              This is always the case! People are scrambling, dragging back and forth, and all glory to Bakunin! crying
              1. +4
                6 December 2021 20: 02
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                People are scrambling, dragging back and forth, and all glory to Bakunin!

                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
              2. +3
                6 December 2021 20: 42
                "The eternal anarchist-revolutionary Mikhail Bakunin (1814-1876), it happened, whenever a revolutionary situation dawns in Europe, he is right there:
                became the head of the rebels to destroy the whole world of violence. And when in 1849 there was an uprising against the monarchy in Dresden, Bakunin, of course, led this uprising too.
                And when government troops began to crowd out the rebels, Bakunin (according to legend, but very similar to the truth, knowing his adventurous nature)
                offered to place the "Sistine Madonna" on the barricade to stop the shelling.
                True, they did not understand him ... And this uprising ended as always, that is, in failure.

                But that's what a cultured person means, a Russian nobleman! "(C)
        2. +2
          6 December 2021 20: 22
          The spitting image of Mahatma Gandhi. He would not have thought of this: the brain is not the same
    5. +5
      6 December 2021 19: 26
      "denies any violence against a person", and Mikhail Bakunin was engaged in raising roses?
      Comrades "Anarchist" rehabilitate the theory of anarchism? Shyutka
  3. +10
    6 December 2021 19: 05
    Who in the century before last and in the last century was engaged in the creation of new types of weapons?
    O! They were people of various professions, not only engineers. Among them there were dentists, and far from one, an important role in the arms business was played by the seller of removable men's collars, and then his widow, among the armourers there were a photographer and a glassmaker - all professions cannot be enumerated.


    There is such a thing - serendipity, a capacious English concept that requires many different definitions in Russian. For example, the following:

    Serendipity is the ability that allows unplanned discoveries to occur and assumes the presence in the psyche of a special mechanism for their appearance.

    You also need to be passionate about something. And then this ability is dramatically manifested in innovation. This is how the "sellers of men's collars" created samples of weapons that graduates could not think of - they had no serendipity in their brains wassat )))
  4. +8
    6 December 2021 19: 27
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    This time you have unearthed something like that!
  5. +5
    6 December 2021 19: 52
    Q. Oh, of course, thank you for the story, but out of spite: Mr. and Mrs. Colt are arms dealers, but they did not create weapons directly. Would you remember the carpenter and who else is there?
    Comrades, I spent the whole day with reports, the authorities at all times loved and loves to read what they like. If not beautifully written (with a stroke, like mine) and something else. Get Lula! So I was looking for something to cling to
    1. +5
      6 December 2021 20: 04
      Quote: vladcub
      did not create weapons directly

      No drawings were drawn, that's true. But they took the most active part in the creative process!
      1. +2
        6 December 2021 20: 33
        Mrs Colt expressed wishes for a revolver
      2. +1
        6 December 2021 23: 42
        Quote: kalibr
        did not create weapons directly

        No drawings were drawn, that's true. But they took the most active part in the creative process!

        Duc, it's about me! fellow True, I sometimes drew "blueprints" (drawings) ... maybe every other time ... sometimes less often ... ... From there they sent replies with unsubscriptions ... they wished to continue to engage in creative activity ... Sometimes the answers did not come ... In the end, I stopped "writing letters" ... I "created" for myself so as not to get bored ! But I will say "no fools" ... later, sometimes I had to meet developments, concepts; containing principles similar to my proposals ... Of course, no one "stole" my "ideas"! Simply, as they say, "ideas are in the air "! It was a little offensive that the ideas realized a few years later, after the appearance of similar ones in me, went "into life"; but I have nothing to do with it! recourse
    2. +5
      6 December 2021 20: 05
      Would you remember the carpenter and who else is there?
      Giuseppe, nicknamed the Blue Nose?
      1. +2
        6 December 2021 20: 25
        And dad Carlo there
      2. +2
        6 December 2021 20: 37
        And the carpenter is no better - Luka Alexandritch ???
        He is still more than a carpenter!
        1. +2
          6 December 2021 20: 42
          "And you are a bug - an insect, and opposite a person, everything is the same as a carpenter against a carpenter!" (WITH)
          1. +1
            6 December 2021 21: 33
            Chestnut ... am
            1. 0
              6 December 2021 21: 34
              They called her Kashtanka in the circus.
              I'm sorry, Kashtanka was really wrong
              1. +1
                6 December 2021 21: 41
                The circus artist gave her the nickname "Aunt"!
                And the carpenter and her grandson called her Kashtanka.
                The grandson Fedyushka was very fond of one "trick" - he gave the dog a piece of meat tied to a string. When Kashtanka was swallowing it, he pulled the thread and literally "pulled out" a piece of meat from the dog's stomach ...
                1. +2
                  6 December 2021 21: 42
                  It is necessary to beat for such tricks!
                  1. +2
                    6 December 2021 21: 52
                    Times were different ...
                    You are Kashtanka, an insect ...
                    And if you remember "a letter to the village grandfather ..."
                    But since then, little has changed in human consciousness. Sprinkled a little "democracies and liberalities", all this is complete nonsense!
                    And animals are bullied and children. And over adults ...
                    And neither Luger nor Colt help ...
  6. +4
    6 December 2021 20: 17
    I look at the pistol and think, outwardly Reifgraber reminds: Luger and some other freak. Something reminds, but what? It will take a long time to look for the Beetle.
    Q. Oh, it’s unlikely that the military was tempted by this freak, even in 45 caliber, the Colt M1911 with homeless gunpowder, and the Reifgraber on black powder.
    Yes, you didn't say: the size and weight of the pistol.
    Visually: the trunk is about 6 centimeters and the whole total, somewhere around 700-750 timing.
    1. +5
      6 December 2021 20: 33
      Hello, Slava!))
      Something reminds, but what?

      Not this one, by chance?
      Savage Model 1907

      Vyacheslav had an article about this machine.
      1. +2
        6 December 2021 20: 37
        Kostya, greetings. Not like that. Now I'll look at the Beetle, at least through the top, and then I'll write
        1. +3
          6 December 2021 20: 52
          There was also a "Nambu" Type 14 (several varieties), a rubbish pistol, but vaguely similar.
          1. +1
            6 December 2021 21: 19
            I agree that there is something distant.
            For me: Nambu's grip is worse than Luger's and Vebley's. Is it somehow not comfortable? ...
            1. +3
              6 December 2021 21: 49
              They were even more uncomfortable. bully

              Nambu type 94.
              You will specifically look for such a freak - you will find a hell, but Captain Kijiro Nambu thought of this, although, given all the vicissitudes of his biography since childhood, it is quite possible to understand where the legs grow from. request
              1. +2
                6 December 2021 21: 59
                He was also lucky that his own father sold him to a wealthy merchant. And it was lucky that the new "father" fell in love with him and began to prepare him for his successors. And he did not oppose when the "son" decided to link his life with the army!
                1. +2
                  6 December 2021 22: 05
                  But the army, with its pistols, was not very lucky, in my opinion. request
                  1. +3
                    6 December 2021 22: 14
                    The first model "Nambu" from 1902 to 1923 produced only 2400 pieces.
                    They were not accepted into service, but they were allowed to buy with their own money!
                    The Japanese officers did not like the pistol. And why would he like it - LOW-QUALITY metal was released for its production !!!
                    Hence the poor quality of the pistol.
                    This is not Luger or Lahti 35 for you!
                    1. +2
                      6 December 2021 22: 19
                      Alexey, you don't understand something, you liked him, then you didn’t like him. request
                      Japanese officers did not like the gun

                      And the Japanese officers liked ...
                      1. +2
                        6 December 2021 22: 43
                        Before being put into service in 1925, I didn’t like it. And after being put into service ... I began to like it!
                        Just like the Russian / Soviet Nagant!
                        The Japanese Navy took over the second version of the Nambu in 1909. Despite the quality problems. Again, low quality metal.
                        Until 1925, the "Nambu second model" produced 4600 pieces.
                        But the "Nambu Type 1925" adopted in 14 failed the cartridge, which had already become weak.
                        At the same time, there was a weak recoil, a small toss of the pistol upward and good shooting accuracy.
                      2. +3
                        7 December 2021 01: 24
                        The "Nambu Type 14" was let down by the already weak cartridge.
                        At the same time, there was a weak recoil, a small toss of the pistol upward and good shooting accuracy.

                        I did not notice that the accuracy of shooting from the R.38 or from the 19-11, with cartridges much more powerful than that of the Nambu, was "lame" among the people. Maybe it's all the same in a comfortable grip and balance of the weapon, huh?))

                        And the Japanese cartridge did not "become weak", it was originally. They also made the caliber of the "Arisaki" smaller, so that the rifle was easier for the undersized Japanese, who grew up on raw rice and rotten fish, samurai, damn it.
                      3. +3
                        7 December 2021 08: 45
                        Rice, rice is different.
                        In the Russo-Japanese War, the Japanese army lost 27 thousand people due to the refusal to introduce barley or red beans, meat into the diet !!!
                        Only milled white rice.
                        And the take-take disease took the lives of these 27 thousand.
                        For "Arisaki" subsequently increased the caliber and power of the cartridge. Changing from cartridge 6,5x50 to cartridge 7,7x58.
                      4. +1
                        10 December 2021 22: 15
                        For "Arisaki" subsequently increased the caliber and power of the cartridge.

                        Did you start eating meat? wassat
                      5. +3
                        10 December 2021 22: 25
                        Good evening, Konstantin !!! How is your health?
                      6. +2
                        10 December 2021 22: 27
                        Yes, okay, for my age. Nothing serious, he lay down for four days, became brutal and asked to be released. They released it. drinks
                      7. +2
                        10 December 2021 22: 30
                        The hospital is not a sanatorium ...
                        And the nurses were not from the pages of "PLAYBOY-yayaya" tongue
                      8. +2
                        10 December 2021 22: 33
                        Yes, there are different girls there, for every taste, I liked everything, but the women from the household block - the gift is still the same - there is no beast worse than the watchman and the technician in the hospital! wassat Anyway, I was lying in the green zone, but the order there was like in a concentration camp, that's why I fled.
                      9. +2
                        10 December 2021 22: 32
                        ,,, "uncle" Kostya is glad, very happy hi
                      10. +3
                        10 December 2021 22: 41
                        Seryozha, I'm glad too !!! drinks
                        As the hero of one military comedy used to say:
                        "How glad I am to breathe the air of the Gestapo again!" (With)
                        (I hope they won't sew the propaganda of Nazism))))))))))))))))))))

                        Comedy "To be or not to be" USA 1942
                      11. +2
                        11 December 2021 10: 28
                        The free air of freedom is sweeter!
                      12. +1
                        11 December 2021 14: 53
                        Sergey, when to expect a new article? bully
                      13. +1
                        11 December 2021 14: 57
                        hi hi drinks
                        ,,,no time. It's just a hobby. After NG, there will probably be a lot of days off.
                      14. +3
                        10 December 2021 23: 37
                        They were "persuaded" to eat beans and barley. And they added meat and bread!
                        There was an experiment - they sent a ship with sailors-cadets on a training trip and ordered them to eat bread and meat, in addition to polished rice!
                        Everyone who ate meat and bread, beans and barley did not get sick. Those who refused the "diet" got sick Beri-Beri!
                      15. +2
                        10 December 2021 23: 43
                        Until 1929, the calorie content of a Japanese soldier's ration was only 1700 calories.
                      16. +2
                        7 December 2021 18: 52
                        Why did the Italians create their "Mannlicher-Carcano" in 6,5mm caliber with a 6,5x52 cartridge?
                        So also from the malnutrition of recruits from the Italian hinterland?
                        On one "paste" it doesn't hurt that you get fat.
                        It was among the Russians that only heroes lived in the villages and did not grieve in the cities!
                      17. +2
                        10 December 2021 22: 19
                        Well, after the unfortunate Bambini, after a plate of pasta, can you clean the physique of Mykole, who has been cracking bacon all day? bully
                      18. +3
                        10 December 2021 22: 27
                        Mykola is a Little Russian batyr!
                        But Ivan, who has seen meat only on holidays or in the army, is the most powerful of all bator!
                      19. +2
                        10 December 2021 22: 30
                        Well, well ... Let's do without cave nationalism. My deceased dad himself had a good deal of theirs in the Chernigov province. And me for all this from the high bell tower. bully
                      20. +3
                        10 December 2021 23: 33
                        For the fathers ... drinks drinks drinks
                      21. +1
                        11 December 2021 14: 02
                        I don’t drink since morning, but I join the toast! drinks
                    2. +3
                      7 December 2021 00: 27
                      Quote: hohol95
                      Hence the poor quality of the pistol.
                      This is not Luger or Lahti 35 for you!

                      What is Luger? Luger-he is in Afri ... in Southeast Asia Luger!


                      Vietnamese Luger ....
                      1. +2
                        7 December 2021 01: 11
                        What a charm, in my childhood, one kid in our yard, had almost exactly such a thing and even spat something about it. bully

                        But what kind of machine is this, who knows?


                        This gibberish goes like a signature -. Duhan-turkun-render
                      2. +1
                        7 December 2021 09: 12
                        It was based on grandfather Borchard, and then there was a gradual degeneration
                      3. 0
                        10 December 2021 18: 39
                        The pistol itself is similar to one of the varieties of the "sea" Luger ... and "abracadabra" does not mean the Luger model in any way! 1.Dukhan-oriental "cafe" ... 2.Turkun-khvamiliya, nickname; 3. Render, one of the directions of computer graphics ... (or a number of "flat" images are reproduced on a volumetric subject ... or vice versa !)
                      4. +2
                        10 December 2021 19: 19
                        This is most likely some kind of "render" and is, slapped by some Turhun in the local Dukhan, with linoleum on the handle for lack of plastic or wood. bully
                      5. +1
                        7 December 2021 08: 46
                        Is the metal used by the Vietnamese identical to German weapons-grade steels?
                      6. +1
                        10 December 2021 18: 46
                        The American soldier, who got the Vietnamese Luger as a trophy, described it as: "rough work"! And high-quality metal was in short supply in Vietnam at that time!
                      7. +1
                        10 December 2021 21: 51
                        So in Japan, they saved on high-quality metal for small arms.
                        It was me and Konstantin "Sea Cat" who corresponded a little about "Nambu" ...
                        And they write, he ended up in the hospital.
                        I got sick.
                      8. +1
                        10 December 2021 22: 17
                        Quote: hohol95
                        I got sick.

                        It's a pity ! A speedy recovery to him!
                      9. +2
                        10 December 2021 22: 22
                        Already escaped, everything is in order. And then, damn it
                        bully
                      10. +1
                        10 December 2021 23: 13
                        So we will save the barrels of gunpowder ???
                        And the pegs can be sharply sharpened or "hemp" from knots can be left feel ?
                      11. +1
                        11 December 2021 00: 39
                        Glad for you, Kostya! As the saying goes: "All is well that ends well!" ... Yes
                      12. +2
                        11 December 2021 12: 33
                        And I'm so glad! bully drinks
                      13. +1
                        7 December 2021 09: 03
                        In the ugliness. The real Luger will be ripped out of his sight
                    3. +1
                      7 December 2021 01: 16
                      This is not "Luger" or "Lahti 35"


                      So I wrote about it:

                      Sea Cat (Constantine)
                      2
                      Yesterday, 20: 52

                      +2
                      There was also a "Nambu" Type 14 (several varieties), a rubbish pistol, but vaguely similar.
              2. +1
                7 December 2021 08: 04
                Kostya, you struck me down: I will look for this. Nambu
          2. +2
            6 December 2021 21: 34
            And the Japanese officers liked ...
            1. +2
              6 December 2021 21: 43
              I don’t know, I didn’t ask, although they liked their tanks, and there was nothing to choose from, except perhaps to get hold of Chinese Mauser in Manchuria. bully
              1. +2
                6 December 2021 21: 55
                Better "Nambu" in a holster than a bamboo stake in hand!
                1. +2
                  6 December 2021 21: 58
                  In skillful hands, the stake is still more reliable, reliable, at least.))
                  1. +1
                    6 December 2021 22: 04
                    All the metal went to the fleet ...
                    Some in appearance "Nambu" are compared with "Glisenti M1910".
                    1. +3
                      6 December 2021 22: 15
                      Well, yes, there are similarities, even the bolt is cocked with the same detail, but otherwise they are different.

      2. +1
        6 December 2021 20: 56
        Now he looked: a little on Vebley and Scott?
        I look at him and think: it is not convenient to take it in order to cock the bolt.
        If I had been offered a choice of pistols, before 1911, I would have preferred the Luger. It is more comfortable, and more elegant, could not do without such a comparison, better quality
        1. +3
          6 December 2021 21: 13
          Yes, Vebley Scott is sloppy too bully , here arr. 1905 year.

          From what you suggest, probably 19-11, he still has a trigger.))
          1. +1
            6 December 2021 21: 26
            I say: ugly.
            I talked about pistols BEFORE Colt
  7. +5
    6 December 2021 20: 18
    And thanks again for the very interesting material. And on the device this time, I can do it a little feel , almost everything is said. Here I was personally interested in the moment of manually sending the cartridge. It turns out that first it was necessary to move the outer casing, and only then the shutter. I wonder if this led to "delays" when sending?
    In general, yes, the inventor was a little too clever with a double automation circuit. And I didn’t guess with the patron. Although with such a locking scheme, any pistol cartridge could be "shoved". Nice circuit. As well as constructive pollution control. Well, I would prefer a trigger trigger. hi
    1. +4
      6 December 2021 20: 30
      I agree: too clever, but in an army pistol, what is the main thing? The simpler the better: cheaper to manufacture and reliable
  8. -1
    22 January 2022 22: 00
    Now let's talk about the Prilutsky pistol and other original developments in tsarist Russia.