Military Review

Tsar Nicholas' officers

184

First, you need to clearly understand - the officers of the guard and army officers are different officers, exactly the same applies to officers naval, where the service has always been more prestigious, and the sailor is more literate, and the prospects are more cheerful. It was better in artillery, special relationships in the Cossack units, and the First World War turned everything upside down - the officer corps was seriously renewed and replenished with a mass of people who had not seen themselves in the army during the post-war period.


In general, the officer corps of 1917 is a special topic, and it is not always identical with the army of 1914, unless, of course, we talk about the generals and the fleet, where the decline was much less.

Prestige


That time, when the officer is a hereditary nobleman, remained in the 19th century, and by the beginning of the First World War, the nobility largely decayed and lost its role of the service class. The young men did not rush to officer schools:

"... it should be noted that the career of an officer ceased to be tempting: the former nobility went bankrupt, became impoverished, began to look for livelihoods that were not given by military service, and involuntarily began to serve where the pay is better ..."

The article "Guard and Army" was written in 1913. There is evidence of Rediger:

"The honor was lost, and the officer's uniform became a target for all sorts of attacks."

And Denikin:

“But how hopeless, how meaningless and sucking life flowed from year to year in many such geographical points that you cannot find on any map: in the backwaters of the Western Territory, in various“ headquarters ”- military settlements built in a clear field and usually historical names, in the suburban slums, in the bearskin corners of distant Siberia, etc. ... And the strategic necessity or the availability of convenient learning conditions did not always justify the dislocation in the slums - and often a kind of understanding of the state economy. "

If we summarize the low salaries, the unsettled life (for example, the officers of the Dorogobuzh and Kashirsky regiments I described earlier lived in rented apartments, as a rule; the request of the colonel's widow with a request to allocate money to complete the education of children in the gymnasium, for neither at home nor a bank account in the husband did not make money), the low prestige of service in the eyes of society and the lack of motivation (the nobility did not give special privileges by 1914), then the unwillingness of talented youth to embark on the path of an officer's career is understandable.

Only in 1912, without examinations, they were admitted to infantry and cavalry schools - 1715 civilians and 452 volunteers. 20 percent of cadets refused admission. Until 1908, there was a negative balance, when more officers were fired per year than entered the army. The number of people taking the exam at the Academy of the General Staff also decreased - it did not provide a profession useful in civilian life. But more than 40 percent of those dismissed in 1912 are young people who, having received a profession, went to where they pay, in a modern way - to business. Russia, with a population of 180 million, barely manned the 40-strong officer corps. The best indicator of the prestige of the service - the children of the nobility in schools in 1910 were only 15 percent, but the children of peasants - 14, officers - 20.

Material aspect


The material aspect of service is Russia's eternal misfortune. If an officer-landowner of the time of Alexander the First could neglect this, and the prestige of the uniform was great, then in the time of Nicholas II the realities were completely different:

“The future Marshal of the Soviet Union Boris Mikhailovich Shaposhnikov recalled that as a young officer he received 67 rubles in the imperial army. salary, 9 rubles. apartment and 30 kopecks. per day on guard. He spent 12 rubles a month on lunches and dinners, 15 rubles on an apartment, 10 rubles on tea, sugar, tobacco, laundry, 10 rubles on uniforms, 10-15 rubles on deductions to the battalion, the orderly's salary was 3 rubles, after which 11-16 rubles remained, and with the addition of summer camp money - up to 20 rubles. "

A skilled worker in large cities earned no less, and an engineer or a doctor much more. No, the generals lived better, receiving from 1500 rubles a year, the colonel received, as a doctor in the district zemstvo - one hundred rubles a month. That's just ... a doctor is after university, and a colonel is for many a career outcome. He is a doctor and a doctor in old age, and an officer will retire in old age on a modest pension. Well, and the place of residence - the officer serves where he is sent, the doctor himself chooses.

Material is not only money, it is also an opportunity to spend it. And if somewhere in the county town for an apartment of 20-25 rubles, you can't start your own housing, there are no cultural institutions besides the Officers' Meeting, there is no normal school for children, well, there are a lot of restrictions, like marriage restrictions:

“The officers could not marry until they were 23 years old. And even when this happened, it was possible to get married before the age of 28 only by proving that there was money to support the family. It was required to confirm this by providing documents on a bank deposit (at least five thousand rubles) or on real estate, the annual income from which was supposed to bring the owner 300 rubles, and not less. Requirements were made not only for the groom, but also for the bride. According to the instructions, she had to have an ideal reputation and an annual income of 250 rubles. Marriages with divorced ladies and actresses were not approved - for this the officer could be dismissed from the ranks of the army. "

And others: a ban on taking change from any bill, a ban on visiting cheap hotels and pubs, a ban on carrying luggage on your own ... And at the exit, a lieutenant colonel and a pension - 60 percent of the content. So the widows of retired colonels asked to raise their daughters' money ... And behind all this there was a choice for literate young people - service in the town and problems or a civil career and good money without risk to life and health.

Morale


With this, there was just complete order, as well as with honor and conscience. Perhaps even too much - the epidemic of suicides, due to minor violations of the concepts of honor, the army was not good. Nevertheless, the education of young officers was at a height - loyalty to duty, to the word, respect for the honor of uniforms and the flag was instilled. An eloquent example - in the First World War, only 15 percent of losses among officers were prisoners.

All this was achieved both by educating future officers and by strict rules of service - those guilty of dishonor were expelled from service mercilessly. Duels were another means of maintaining high morale, which on average took place up to 20 a year.

There was a fight against the massacre and insults of the lower ranks:

“In the Kazan military district, the second lieutenant hit his orderly for coming drunk. The officer's youth was taken into account, and he received 30 days of the guardhouse. "

In principle, by the First World War, assault in the army was minimized. At the same time, the officers themselves did not enjoy the love of society:

“In our civilian educational institutions to this day there is no mention of the armed forces of the state, and a huge number of our future citizens in this regard are brought up in complete ignorance. There is no need to talk about higher educational institutions. "

Moreover, before 1910 there was no military-patriotic education, and after that only its external manifestations in the form of the scout movement. In fact, the army was alien to society, and society, with its political ferment, did not accept the army.

“... the intelligentsia regarded military affairs as a profession unworthy of a cultured person; in addition, she was hostile to the Russian officers, for she saw in him the main support of the autocracy ... "

Nevertheless, the traditions of army partnership remained until 1914, when they began to be eroded by the conscription of a huge number of civilians who had not gone through school, educational institutions, or regimental partnership.

As for politics, the RIA officer corps was apolitical, it cannot be considered monarchist, because the monarchy for most officers was just a symbol of the state, but liberalism in the army was not welcomed, because army discipline was far from it in all eras. In general, it was considered shameful for an officer to get involved in politics, which led to the ideological crisis of whites in the Civil War. These contradictions between society and the army were only deepened by the First Revolution:

“For 1905, the total number was 25 companies, 283 squadrons and hundreds (the total number of calls - 5354). Of this number, 3893% were used “to catch vagrants and robbers, to carry out searches and take away weapons"."

The massive use of the army as punishers and the terror of the revolutionaries against the officers put a barrier of enmity between the army and the politically active part of society.

Professionalism


“... our cadets are usually taught to make excellent rifle techniques, to march superbly ... they are forced to study diligently the duties of a sentry, a company officer on duty, orderlies, etc., that is, they prepare good privates from cadets ... completely forgetting that officers must come out of them ... "

The disadvantages of the professional training of RIA officers were the predominance of theoretical studies over practical ones, an emphasis on drill training and regulations. The program of the Officer Rifle School, which trained the battalion commanders, has been preserved - the study of personal weapons (assembly-disassembly, shooting) - 144 hours, tactics - 24 hours. I will repeat myself - battalion commanders, that is, serving officers with a long record of service. In the end, it turned out what happened - great shooters and brave men ... poorly knowledgeable of the map and tactics.

And only in 1910 the situation began to improve, new instructions and training programs were adopted, but alas, it was too late. The officer corps from the comrade and above approached the Great War with the same baggage of knowledge that was received from the instructions that led to the defeat in the Russo-Japanese War. So, for example, the "Regulations on the field command of troops in wartime" was adopted only in 1914. The measures to dramatically increase competence were colossal in scale, but a decade late. To be fair - in other armies of the warring parties, the problems were much the same.

So what was he like, a Russian officer? The man is undoubtedly personally brave, with solid notions of honor, but at the same time intolerant of any opposition and politically naive, perfectly trained as a fighter, but much weaker as a thinking commander. They are not respected by society and are wary of society, as something anarchic and thoughtless. It seems to me that the root of the Civil War is largely in this portrait - some of the officers went over to the side of the new state, while others put things in order - the way they understood and knew how. And neither justify nor blame them. These people served the Tsar and the Fatherland, the Tsar abdicated, and the Fatherland began to crumble, and everyone decided for himself, despite the fact that they were not taught to solve political puzzles.
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  1. Far B
    Far B 30 November 2021 05: 56
    +9
    And how can you scratch the entire huge officer corps with the same brush? They were different people, like the whole society. Therefore, after October, everyone chose the path for himself: someone - to the red, someone - to one of the white branches, and someone, like Annenkov, generally went through the chaos, shocking everyone and everything.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 30 November 2021 06: 53
      -8
      It is possible and most importantly necessary. Traditions and rules. Dynasties and education. Everything was trampled underfoot. Therefore, when they were all taken away at 17, everything went a new path for themselves and made a bunch of mistakes. At 91, it was essentially the same. Scrapped again. Again, society scoffed as best it could.
      1. Far B
        Far B 30 November 2021 07: 44
        +10
        the main thing is necessary
        Who needs? What is it for, if in fact everyone turned out to be different and went their own way? And these paths were not determined by traditions and rules, dynastic affiliation or upbringing. And not even that "at 17 they took everything" and "Everything was trampled underfoot." Firstly, not everyone had something to take and trample underfoot - in the article, by the way, it is said about this. And secondly, not all officers were ideologically inert. So traditions, rules and upbringing determined not the path that the officer chose after 1917, but how he behaved along this path.
        That is why I say: scratching one size fits all the officers of the Republic of Ingushetia is a senseless exercise.
        1. Alex_1973
          Alex_1973 30 November 2021 08: 13
          +13
          I, too, do not understand how you can scratch everyone with the same brush? Yes, they were certainly brave, and some were also competent commanders, but in the same way there were cowards and people without honor and conscience. There were heroes without mercy, and there were also thieves who stole the last from soldiers and colleagues.
          There were those who considered it their duty to serve their Motherland to the end, whatever it was and whatever it was called, and there were those who, for the sake of personal gain, were ready to fight against their people. On the one hand there were Karbyshev, Shaposhnikov, Brusilov, Slashchev and many others, and on the other hand there were red, skins, Everts and at their head were the offspring of the Romanovs' house, the once great prince Kirill and his descendants, who now really want to coddle their fat backs to the Russian throne.
          So they were different and there is nothing to smear them with one world!
          1. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 30 November 2021 11: 01
            +3
            I, too, do not understand how you can scratch everyone with the same brush?
            And this is what colors, to sketch on the canvas, for completeness of the picture wink
          2. Bar1
            Bar1 30 November 2021 12: 46
            -10
            Quote: Alex_1973
            There were heroes without mercy, and there were also thieves who stole the last from soldiers and colleagues.


            do not measure by yourself.
        2. Glory1974
          Glory1974 30 November 2021 10: 10
          +15
          scratching one size fits all the officers of the Republic of Ingushetia is a pointless exercise

          They do not compare officers, but analyze the system in which the officers were brought up and trained. And this must be done in order not to repeat the mistakes of the past.
          We now also have skews above the roof. Either the army is outside politics, or the main political administration is created. I'm not talking about the combat training program at all, a separate article can be written. For 40 years we have been fighting partisans in low-intensity conflicts, and there are no textbooks on these types of military operations! The tactics have not been worked out. As a lieutenant, he personally taught the personnel on tactics, the topic was "US platoon on the offensive," and the division was going to go to the North Caucasus to Chechnya. This system has not changed since imperial times.
      2. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 30 November 2021 10: 53
        +5
        At 91, it was essentially the same. Scrapped again. Again, society scoffed as best it could.

        Who bullied whom in '91
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 30 November 2021 13: 10
          +1
          Well, my father believed that, as in the nineties, people around him never again humiliated him. On the bus, running into rudeness has become the norm, why is his travel free and stuff like a pension at 45. Drop by drop. The child himself faced this while being next to him at such moments. In short, respect has disappeared. It hurt him more than the collapse of the Union.
          1. mmaxx
            mmaxx 30 November 2021 15: 01
            +2
            But the Soviet officers did not think about anything.
            Here is a quote from their commentary below: "General Ivanov said:" You cannot reproach our officers for being ready to die, but their training, in general, is weak, and in most of them they are underdeveloped; in addition, the available officer corps is so small that it is observed, as a common occurrence, that there is only one company commander per person in a company. Senior bosses have little leadership in teaching; their role is mainly limited to control and criticism. In recent years, we have to state an almost total flight of officers from the ranks, and it is mainly the best and most developed officers who are leaving. "
            Everything is absolutely related to the SA of my period.
            So, by the end of the 80s, there were several calls when everyone was called. I was called up after my first year at the institute. Yes, and all my comrades too. Units missed. And clever guys, in the future, honored specialists, leaders, etc., looked at who is in charge of them and what our "valiant" officers consider the service. There was a minimum of respect for almost everyone. It's just that the overwhelming majority of people went to the army for money and pensions. No development in terms of professional growth, or at least just mind, was not even visible in the majority. Personally, he was ready to beat them in civilian life. What respect can I have for a person - a jerk, cattle and boor? There are asterisks - a king and a god. And this is against the background of an absolute minority, which set an example of what is possible without all this. 2/3 of the officers treated the soldiers as under serfdom, absolutely not counting the people. I wonder what they wanted in return? 1917? So the comrades officers were lucky in the 90s. You could walk outside in civilian clothes. You can only take offense at yourself. We paid with absolute class hatred. And I'm sure many of our officers were shot in the back if there was a war. And the worst of all was just the smart ones. Their system destroyed in every way. Already in recent times I met former officers, some from the Suvorov military school, who said almost all the same. They left the army.
            Remember the first thing that the soldiers demanded in the 17th? Contact you.
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 30 November 2021 16: 36
              -5
              O! The offended are pulled up. Think about it with your head. If people like you are hated and despised by your subordinates, then you can squeeze in further.
              1. Sergey Zilinsky
                Sergey Zilinsky 2 December 2021 19: 18
                +1
                He served at the beginning of the thousandths as a doctor of the MPP in the Kantemirovsk division (even before its disbandment, then they were put back into the brigade, lol-kek). Once I went to the fields for 1,5 months with a battalion as medical support. Then I come for the field - and the cashier tells me that I have already received them! I fellomorphic asked - when did I have time, I was not even in the unit? As a result, it turned out that the same battalion, whose battalion had left for the fields, received them for me. That's what a soldier is for him, if he put on top of the officers, if they are lower in rank? I assure you that people like him were in the majority then.
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 3 December 2021 03: 26
                  0
                  The most interesting thing is one question: what can a subordinate do in this case? Even the lieutenant against the whole major - NOTHING, zero! And the soldier is generally an empty space. No one will even listen to him.
                  Therefore, justice should only be civil. Now the only way to uproot the mess is. Ordinary prosecutors love to practice their piece on simple cases. I would like to look at all this jackal who has neither honor nor conscience.
                  Here, I think, the former officers are in the majority. Remember yourself and open your eyes. And I will tell you the names of the officers, the soldiers - shmatki, Fritz and jackals. Draw your own conclusions, gentlemen. Just information. Nothing personal on my part.
                  1. aakvit
                    aakvit 3 December 2021 10: 55
                    0
                    Well I do not know! am
                    Sam was called up in 1985 after the third year of the institute, served in the Air Force for two years. And the language will not turn to name my officers as you call them! And in training in Bashkiria, and in the regiment near St. Petersburg - the officers were officers, that's right! I will not say that everything, but a couple of goats for more than 200 officers and warrant officers is nonsense, believe me! And the other officers treated them in about the same way as we, the soldiers. hi
                    Maybe my colleagues and I were just lucky? I do not think so! stop
                    1. mmaxx
                      mmaxx 3 December 2021 14: 41
                      0
                      Apparently you are in luck. Air Force, all the same. Me and my friends and acquaintances got 90% of the OL ZabVO. And what is there after him. What kind of environment is like a person.
                      1. Mungut
                        Mungut 5 December 2021 13: 48
                        0
                        I was drafted in 1985. In training, in Primorye, in a cropped regiment, by the way in Zabvo, the officers were officers. From lieutenant to colonel inclusive. And they ran with full gear and others. Well, maybe the special officer flattened someone, and so ... All honor for honor.
                    2. Lisa90
                      Lisa90 6 December 2021 00: 29
                      0
                      Agree. In aviation it is not to serve in the infantry. God delivered from these wooden to the waist. Greetings from under Peter) VVS
            2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 30 November 2021 19: 44
              +3
              Sorry, but you have some kind of indiscriminate and unspecified resentment against the officer corps of the Soviet Army.
              And by the way, "poking" is not always bad, but "poking" is great! No. "Poking" in a normal team of people of different ages, adequate people brings them closer, and "poking", on the contrary, removes and makes the relationship formal and cold; there will never be a rapprochement between people.
              1. mmaxx
                mmaxx 1 December 2021 03: 43
                +1
                We are talking about the usual rudeness in relation to subordinates, who by themselves must humbly listen to everything.
                1. aakvit
                  aakvit 3 December 2021 10: 57
                  0
                  But there are enough boors everywhere, and in civilian life there are no less of them!
                  1. mmaxx
                    mmaxx 3 December 2021 14: 44
                    0
                    For myself, in my life I decided that someone in civilian life would try to be rude or yell at me, I would give me a chair over the head. And so I live. Nobody yells. For some reason.
                    And in the army .... Well, there are moments, no question ... But in general, just a desire to dominate by any means, despite the stars on the shoulder straps. Moreover, trampling in the tree about. Why would the underground humiliate a soldier? But don't care. And there is nothing to say about the elders. The power is there. And limitless. We must use it. You just stand and think: a meeting in civilian life, how, I wonder, will you sing? I do not hide the fact that if there was a war and if there was an opportunity, I would have shot some then. And I would not have felt a twinge of conscience until now. For some reason, I think that I was not the only one who thought so.
      3. dauria
        dauria 30 November 2021 12: 03
        +9
        Traditions and rules. Dynasties and education. Everything was trampled underfoot. So when they were all taken away at 17

        Wake up. There is Kuprin's "Duel". There is not 1910, there is the end of the 19th century. The accuracy of the description of the officers' environment is photographic, recognized by contemporaries.
        What the hell is "education", wake up. The army, the same infantry through the eyes of a second lieutenant. Much more beautiful.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 30 November 2021 13: 16
          -9
          Why do I need Kuprin when I have the diaries of my great-grandfather and his two brothers? All officers. In my family, the history of the clan has been preserved from the 18th century to the present day. It was me who distinguished myself here, some girls are born)))
          1. dauria
            dauria 30 November 2021 14: 49
            +8
            - Wait, take your time. Look at our officers. Oh, I'm not talking about the guards who dance at balls, speak French and live on the support of their parents and lawful wives. No, think about us, the unfortunate armies, about the army infantry, about this main nucleus of the glorious and brave Russian army. After all, all this is a blockage, rags, garbage. At best, sons of crippled captains. Most of them are high school students, fearful of wisdom, realists, even seminarians who have not graduated. I will give you our regiment as an example. Who serves us well and for a long time? Poor people, burdened with families, beggars, ready for any concession, for any cruelty, even for murder, for the theft of soldiers' kopecks, and all this because of their pot of cabbage soup. He is ordered: shoot, and he shoots - who? for what? Maybe in vain? He doesn't care, he doesn't reason. He knows that his frozen, rickety children squeak at home, and he senselessly, like a woodpecker, bulging his eyes, hollows out one word: "Oath!" Everything that is talented and capable is drunk. We have seventy-five percent of the officer corps sick with syphilis. One lucky man - and this is once every five years - enters the academy, he is seen off with hatred. The more sleek and patronized invariably go to the gendarmes or dream of a place as a police bailiff in a big city. Nobles and those who, although with a small fortune, go to the zemstvo chiefs.


            Well, about your "family tree" .... Make no mistake and draw it correctly - branches down. Four generations for 100 years. Power series two to degree N.
            Even if you are 60 years old, then 16 people at that time participated in your birth. By the Napoleonic Wars - 2 to the 7th degree - 128. to Peter the Great - 2 in the 11th = 2048.
            You can continue to Dmitry Donskoy - and there will be a compote from a million. But somehow all of this million choose exactly King Arthur. what
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 30 November 2021 15: 35
              -6
              I didn’t draw, I just gave an example) I’m German) We all have this one)
              1. dauria
                dauria 30 November 2021 15: 44
                +5
                I'm German) All of us in the family are turned on this)

                Disappoint the rest of the Germans. Translate for them .... Let them look out the window at their millionth city - in 500 years in their "blood" (this is provided that they are lucky) there will be the blood of the people of a whole millionth city. Even if from different cities. Beijing and Paris, San Francisco and Rio de Janeiro. It doesn't matter - a million. A million of their future relatives now live and have "sex" on the planet. Here's a bummer for the Clintons and Rottenbergs. recourse
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 30 November 2021 16: 04
                  -4
                  Seriously?) I'm shocked) You can say you opened your eyes)
                  1. dauria
                    dauria 1 December 2021 07: 52
                    +1
                    Seriously?) I'm shocked)

                    Okay, don't be discouraged. In fact, there are cross-links, closed populations such as the peoples of the North or the islands of Oceania. And the mixing of the groups did not go so fast.
                    But anyway, just imagine. You stand in a line, let hundreds of men with the same right. And a goose walks in front of your formation and chooses "I am a descendant of this one. He is a great writer (commander, rock star, etc.)" And he is not interested in the fact that the others lived a difficult life for the sake of this whip. It was you and I who also offended women.
                    But this is exactly how the "descendants" behave, well, for example, Leo Tolstoy.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 30 November 2021 11: 35
      -12
      Russian officers took an oath, from the word to sit down to the Tsar and the Fatherland. The Tsar did not become, he renounced his Fatherland, but the Fatherland itself remained, so it was UNACCEPTABLE to see the Russian officers disintegrate the Fatherland, this separation of Poland, Finland and the emergence of independence in Ukraine.
      The signing of the Brest Peace Treaty showed what the power of the Bolsheviks is, that they can sell the Fatherland for power, and therefore the officers rose up against the Bolshevik power and a civil war began. still devoted to patronymic and order.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 14: 46
        +8
        Quote: Bar1
        On the one hand, soldiers fooled by Bolshevik propaganda who believed in "peace and land to the peasants"

        On the same side - the officers and generals who supported the only ones who saved Russia by withdrawing it from the war.
      2. andreykolesov123
        andreykolesov123 30 November 2021 15: 39
        +3
        Quote: Bar1
        oath-from the word sit down

        From the word "shrink", that is, "reach". That is, an oath is an achievement when a person is allowed to join the ranks of the army.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 30 November 2021 20: 58
          +2
          Quote: andreykolesov123
          From the word "shrink", that is, "reach". That is, an oath is an achievement when a person is allowed to join the ranks of the army.


          the first time I hear this word "shrink".
          And to swear, to squat, well, when they swore, they got down on one knee.
          1. andreykolesov123
            andreykolesov123 1 December 2021 09: 14
            -2
            Quote: Bar1
            the first time I hear this word "shrink".
            And to swear, to squat, well, when they swore, they got down on one knee.



            It is an obsolete word, but its root can be found in many modern words.
            https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enc2p/362330
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 1 December 2021 09: 28
              0
              Quote: andreykolesov123
              It is an obsolete word, but its root can be found in many modern words.
              https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enc2p/362330


              and here
              -SIGA
              then yes this word is famous
              -sigat- jump, jumped somewhere, as we always said, but then where does the oath?
              Something does not fit.
              1. andreykolesov123
                andreykolesov123 1 December 2021 09: 34
                -2
                Quote: Bar1
                and here
                -SIGA
                then yes this word is famous
                -sigat- jump, jumped somewhere, as we always said, but then where does the oath?
                Something does not fit.

                https://lexicography.online/etymology/%D0%BF/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%8F%D0%B3%D0%B0
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 1 December 2021 09: 41
                  +1
                  touch, jump word do not match
                  touch - swear?

                  well where is the coincidence?
                  1. andreykolesov123
                    andreykolesov123 1 December 2021 09: 46
                    -2
                    Quote: Bar1
                    touch, jump word do not match
                    touch - swear?

                    well where is the coincidence?

                    A question for philologists. Difficult Russian language
                    1. Bar1
                      Bar1 1 December 2021 09: 58
                      0
                      Quote: andreykolesov123
                      A question for philologists. Difficult Russian language


                      more than what is written in etymological dictionaries, they will no longer be able to explain, and as for the etymologist of the German Vasmer, this is generally a special case. The German explained the origin of Russian words, and most of the words in his German head are Russian borrowings from Western ones, which is a lie ...
                      well, with this word
                      -swear
                      we see that in general something strange.
                      but in my reading
                      - to swear - to squat, of course, there is no "legal following", but the meaning of the oath remained, sat down - in front of the lord means swore.
      3. 72jora72
        72jora72 1 December 2021 07: 18
        0
        The signing of the Brest Peace Treaty showed what the power of the Bolsheviks is, that they can sell the Fatherland for power, and therefore the officers rose up against the Bolshevik power.
        Dear, you have a clear vinaigrette in your head .......
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 1 December 2021 09: 35
          -1
          Quote: 72jora72
          Dear, you have a clear vinaigrette in your head .......


          according to your officers and people after the Republic of Ingushetia the Brest-Litovsk peace of course should like?
          Especially those regions of Russia that went to Germany on this "world"?
          Fought, fought, and then the Bolsheviks came and gave half of Russia?
          Rather, you have been poisoned by the propaganda of the Bolsheviks.
    3. Seal
      Seal 1 December 2021 06: 33
      0
      Quote: Dalny V
      And how can you scratch the entire huge officer corps with the same brush? They were different people, like the whole society.
      So it seems that the author does not scratch the case. And so to speak (figuratively speaking) combing the situation with the officer corps in order to "comb out" some general patterns.
    4. bk0010
      bk0010 1 December 2021 20: 39
      +2
      Quote: Dalny V
      And how can you scratch the entire huge officer corps with the same brush? They were different people, like the whole society. Therefore, after October, everyone chose the path for himself
      A small note: the pre-war officer corps (which is discussed in the article) was almost completely destroyed at the beginning of the war (not, generals, of course, but those who were at the front), so other people acted in 17. And by the way, the same bullshit was on all sides. As they knocked out those who went to the machine guns, as in the war with Napoleon, so the war passed into the trench phase.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 30 November 2021 06: 21
    +2
    So what was he like, a Russian officer? The man is undoubtedly personally brave, with solid notions of honor, but at the same time intolerant of any opposition and politically naive, perfectly trained as a fighter, but much weaker as a thinking commander.
    ... Which officer was it written about before 1914? or after? After that, another officer went ..
    1. 210ox
      210ox 30 November 2021 06: 52
      +1
      I am sincerely sorry for these people, thrown into the meat grinder of the summer of 1914 .. They were knocked out with their honor, courage, concepts.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 30 November 2021 12: 12
        +5
        Dmitry
        Well, the concept of officer honor in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE was extensible. Officers with military teams easily, without the slightest doubt about their own honor, flogged the peasants and hanged them. If they themselves disdained to get the hands dirty, then they gave commands. During the Civil War, they fought just like the Nazis twenty years later. And to whom they just did not go into service. And then some served the Nazis, some were Mikado, and some were just bandits.
        1. mmaxx
          mmaxx 30 November 2021 15: 08
          +5
          Interestingly, who raises a hand to minus? And about Shkuro and Krasnova not to remind? And what did this "color of the nation" do in the civil one?
        2. 210ox
          210ox 30 November 2021 16: 02
          +4
          Were the peasants who died in East Prussia, Galicia, and Poland hanged and flogged? I'm talking about the victims, not those who were during the Civil ... By the way, it was said that they were already OTHER officers ... Although I partially agree.
          1. Basil50
            Basil50 30 November 2021 17: 48
            +6
            I had to read about * pacification * in the times of Catherine and Alexandrov 2nd and 3rd, and what they were doing under Nicholas II. And they did not hesitate to write reports, reports. They were not at all ashamed of their * exploits * of pacification. Remember * Bloody Resurrection * or what the Semyonovites did on RED FRESH. Remember the * Stolypin tie * in which the peasants and workers were pushed. The * pre-war officers * committed atrocities * with * honor and dignity *.
            During the Civil War, atrocities by whites and their masters were widespread. But then in emigration they began to ascribe their atrocities to the Bolsheviks, but what about. The literary gifted (educated) were able to write smoothly and speak fluently. Nowadays, in Europe, they write the same way about the RED ARMY destroying the Nazis and their hangers-on.
  3. 210ox
    210ox 30 November 2021 06: 45
    +11
    During the Second Patriotic War, the very First World War, the German officers had a completely fair opinion - Russian officers were weak in tactics, the generals and staff were also weak.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 30 November 2021 08: 36
      +13
      General Ivanov said: “You cannot reproach our officers for being ready to die, but their training is generally weak, and in the majority they are not sufficiently developed; in addition, the available officer corps is so small that it is observed, as a common occurrence, that it is evident in a company there is only one company commander. Senior chiefs have little control over the training business; their role is reduced mainly to control and criticism. In recent years, we have to state an almost total flight of officers from the ranks, and it is mainly the best and most developed officers who are leaving. "
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 30 November 2021 10: 12
      +6
      the German officers had a completely fair opinion - Russian officers were weak in tactics, the generals and staff officers were also weak.

      The Germans said the same thing during the Great Patriotic War, "Russians are weak in tactics."
      When will something change?
  4. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 30 November 2021 06: 56
    +2
    Great article! I especially liked the conclusion, which evokes certain emotions and pride in the Russian officers.
  5. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 30 November 2021 07: 09
    +1
    The number of people taking the exam at the Academy of the General Staff also decreased - it did not provide a profession useful in civilian life.

    Like this belay.
    I have always believed and still believe that the Russian General Staff is a golden place ... not only in terms of career, but also in terms of knowledge.
    You need to have a huge amount of information in order to competently plan military construction and conduct combat knowledge ... no, general staff officers are the cream of the army ... golden military personnel for any country.
    At the same time, not every person is able to go from a soldier to a general staff officer.
    In the tsarist army, this category of officers has always been held in high esteem ... smile gold diggers.
    After the revolution, many tsarist officers not needed by the Bolshevik Russia left for Latin America ... there their knowledge and experience were gladly accepted by the local republics ... these people had very exciting fates.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 30 November 2021 08: 15
      +13
      After the revolution, many tsarist officers not needed by the Bolshevik Russia left for Latin America ... there their knowledge and experience were gladly accepted by the local republics ... these people had very exciting fates.

      The majority, and this is 70% of the officers of the tsarist army went to serve in the Red Army. A Marine
      The General Staff in full force began to serve the Soviet government
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 30 November 2021 08: 41
        +15
        "Many people find it surprising and incomprehensible that the collapse of the age-old monarchical system did not cause among the army brought up in its traditions, not only struggle, but even individual outbreaks."
        Denikin wrote in his "Essays on Russian Troubles." He has a lot of interesting things on this topic ...
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 November 2021 09: 02
        -12
        Quote: Konnick
        The majority, and this is 70% of the officers of the tsarist army went to serve in the Red Army.

        so that you too "voluntarily" pass: bread and work after the thief were appropriated only by thieves and just a noose starvation held the officers by the throats; they also forcibly conscripted officers into their army in conditions taking families hostage.

        And all the same, according to the research of DIN S. Volkov:
        the total number of officers was approximately 276 thousand people. (including those who by the time of the October coup did not return to the ranks due to their non-combat capability or were dismissed by the Provisional Government; both of them, however, participated in the events of the civil war and were the object of reprisals). About 170 thousand of them (about 62%) fought in the white armies, among the Bolsheviks (excluding the captured former white officers) - 55-58 thousand (19-20%), in the armies of the newly formed states - up to 15 thousand (5-6%) and slightly more than 10% - 28-30 thousand did not participate in the civil war - mainly for the reason that the overwhelming majority (more than 2/3 “did not participate ") They were exterminated by the Bolsheviks in the first months after the collapse of the front (late 1917 - spring 1918) and during the" red terror ".


        The fate of the officers who succumbed to blackmail, deception and betrayed Russia is terrible: in the 1920s and 1930s they were fired, imprisoned, shot, deprived of their rights and family members, and, in the end, destroyed practically ALL: from hundreds of thousands only a few HUNDREDS of Russian officers fought in the Second World War.

        Germany, on the other hand, used the WWII officers with might and main in WWII and this largely explains the great superiority in command of the Wehrmacht and Red Army units in the initial period of the war.
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 30 November 2021 09: 28
          +8
          They deigned to write yet another nonsense. Well, who would take the risk in a civil war - to forcibly recruit command posts ?? Think for yourself. And judging by the fact that the Reds won, most of the RI officers were still on their side. Military victory is impossible without commanding personnel. For no army can fight without them. Where did the Bolsheviks get them in your opinion?

          The overwhelming majority of the highest Soviet commanders in the Second World War were exactly that the former tsarist officers. No need here la-la. Evon - Govorov generally served with Kolchak at one time. As for the type of quantity - didn’t it occur to you a simple consideration that by the time of the Second World War - very, very many tsarist officers corny had served their assigned quarter? No? Especially if you take into account their participation in WWI and civil, with a corresponding offset in the service life?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 November 2021 10: 35
            -16
            Quote: paul3390
            They deigned to write yet another nonsense. Well, who would take the risk in a civil war - to forcibly recruit command posts ?? Think for yourself.

            Do not be delusional: if you take your family hostage and give bread cards only with conscientious service, then you will diligently "God save the Tsar" take out.
            Quote: paul3390
            Where did the Bolsheviks get them in your opinion?

            They were drafted forcibly, mostly.

            There were, of course, also voluntary cowards and dithers a la Antonov-Ovseenko, pubic-eczema Krylenko, etc.
            Quote: paul3390
            Overwhelming majority the highest Soviet commanders in the Second World War - they were exactly that the former tsarist officers.

            belay lol Complete nonsense and not remotely similar to the truth.
            And what to talk to you about if you elementary not copenghvgen in the subject?
            Quote: paul3390
            Well, well - what then explains the superiority in the command of the Red Army in the second half of the war? Something like experience accumulated by both sides, with a solid initial handicap nemchura?

            the Bolsheviks gave the Nazis a head start.

            Ours also learned and the resources of the parties in the second half of WWII were already incomparable.
            1. Valerikk
              Valerikk 30 November 2021 17: 49
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              There were, of course, also voluntary cowards and dithers a la Antonov-Ovseenko, pubic-eczema Krylenko, etc.

              And Boris Mikhailovich Shaposhnikov, for example, to whom do you refer to cowards, dithers or eczema?
          2. Bar1
            Bar1 30 November 2021 12: 42
            -5
            Quote: paul3390
            Think for yourself. And judging by the fact that the Reds won, most of the RI officers were still on their side. Military victory is impossible without commanding personnel. For no army can fight without them. Where did the Bolsheviks get them in your opinion?


            remember Walking in the throes of Tolstoy. Engineer Telegin was their commoner-bourgeoisie, not from the nobility. Did he deliberately join the Red Army? Most likely, he adhered to a semblance of order and was also intoxicated by the deceitful Bolshevik propaganda.
            In Russia for 17 years, on the one hand, there was the confusion of the Provisional Government, which, by its presence, corrupted order and discredited the POWER, and on the other, "fiery speeches of the Bolsheviks" and the illusion of order, therefore many officers stood up for this illusory order. And by the way, in vain because the Bolsheviks took advantage of the officers subsequently, they were shot in the majority, as, for example, the army of Batka Makhno, allied to the Bolsheviks, was destroyed, which stopped Denikin.
            If you look at the fate of the career officer Roshchin, he did not accept the Bolsheviks at first, but he could not endure all the riots at Denikin's, therefore he also ended up with the Reds. I wonder what was his fate after the civil war? Tolstoy no longer writes about that. Most likely, he shared the fate of the rest of the deceived officers.
            For example, the famous inventor of television Zvorykin, from the merchant class, for being an officer in Ingushetia during the war was persecuted by the Bolsheviks and therefore fled abroad.
            1. Konnick
              Konnick 30 November 2021 13: 54
              +9
              If you look at the fate of the career officer Roshchin, he did not accept the Bolsheviks at first, but he could not endure all the riots at Denikin's, therefore he also ended up with the Reds. I wonder what was his fate after the civil war? Tolstoy no longer writes about that. Most likely, he shared the fate of the rest of the deceived officers.

              If you were interested in "Walking through the agony", you would know that one of Roshchin's prototypes was Shilovsky Evgeny Alexandrovich, son-in-law of A.N. Tolstoy. Guards captain, i.e. Colonel, in October 41, he applied for admission to the party, already being a lieutenant general of the Red Army. Professor, Doctor of Military Sciences - “During the Great Patriotic War, offensive problems occupied a significant place in scientific developments. The work, the logical conclusion of which was the formation of a breakthrough theory, was headed by E. A. Shilovsky. "
              He is also the prototype of Margarita's husband in The Master and Margarita. It was from him that Bulgakov stole his wife Elena Sergeevna. The most honest man, being understood during the search of General Kryukov and Ruslanova, was greatly outraged by the money-grubbing of these persons. His eldest son went through the whole war. Buried at the Novodevichy cemetery. And the fate of many former senior officers and generals after the Civil War is similar to the fate of Shilovsky-Roshchin, many began to teach in schools and academies, as they had the appropriate education. Yes, there was the "Spring" affair, but most of them calmly survived to old age.
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 30 November 2021 14: 08
                -13
                Quote: Konnick
                If you were interested in "Walking through the agony", you would know that one of Roshchin's prototypes was Shilovsky Evgeny Alexandrovich, son-in-law of A.N. Tolstoy. Guard


                I believe that those who served the Bolsheviks made a deal with their consciences, because Bolshevism is a bloody regime.
                1. Konnick
                  Konnick 30 November 2021 14: 10
                  +7
                  because Bolshevism is a bloody regime.

                  But right now, with a jar of jam and a packet of cookies. All became bold from the current regime.
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 30 November 2021 14: 11
                    -7
                    Quote: Konnick
                    But right now, with a jar of jam and a packet of cookies.


                    that they will protect if funds, children and wives are all there and they don't need our land.
                    1. Konnick
                      Konnick 30 November 2021 14: 14
                      +9
                      that they will protect if funds, children and wives are all there and they don't need our land.

                      I see you are a patriot, and what to defend? For example, I do not want to defend "Gazprom is our heritage". I swore an oath to the Soviet Motherland, not to a bunch of oligarchs.
                      1. Bar1
                        Bar1 30 November 2021 14: 21
                        -5
                        Quote: Konnick
                        I see you are a patriot, and what to defend?


                        firstly, if you are a patriot, replace your nickname with Russian.
                        My homeland, the USSR, was a strange homeland, which at the end of its existence even stopped feeding its people, although there was food.
                        Therefore, the country built on lies and blood did not last long. The USSR fulfilled its functions in history, was divided and fragmented, and finally disintegrated.
                        Everyone loved our USSR, but no one asked the people, they simply destroyed it and took everything.
                        They are there on their own, and the people are on their own - "there is no money, but you are holding on."
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 1 December 2021 08: 22
                        -2
                        Quote: Konnick
                        and what to protect? For example, I do not want to defend "Gazprom is our heritage".

                        Homeland they always defend, for the whole thousand years, regardless of feudalism, serfdom or communism. Few fought for the beggarly slavery of the VKPB (second serfdom), but almost everyone stood up for the Fatherland.

                        But when it was necessary to stand up purely for "VKPB" in 1991, NOBODY stood up

                        And the nonhochukhov deviators, policemen, Vlasovites and other servants of the invaders who do not want to protect her, are simply hanged, they even regret the bullets.

                        It will be the same in the future
                      3. Konnick
                        Konnick 1 December 2021 08: 42
                        0
                        The homeland is always defended, for the whole thousand years, regardless of feudalism,

                        You have long been stuck in monarchism, feudalism and other formations, and I want peace in the world, I am not interested in fighting, I am interested in working and not looking for a reason for unleashing conflicts. Let your kings fight, otherwise they came up with a slogan for the slaves for the faith, for the king, for the fatherland. Workers of all countries, unite!
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 1 December 2021 09: 13
                        -1
                        Quote: Konnick
                        and I want peace in the whole world, I am not interested in fighting, I am interested in working and not looking for a reason for unleashing conflicts.

                        for peace and the opportunity to work need to fight-cm. HISTORY.

                        Those who do not fight for their country will still fight, but for ANOTHER, already as a slave and cannon fodder.

                        in the event of the next German invasion, you are in their policemen, you must understand, you will "work" and burn Khatyn.

                        Don't forget about the "premium" rope, "pacifist".

                        Quote: Konnick
                        Proletarians of all countries, unite!

                        They both united and came - the proletarians of Germany, Austria, Italy, France, Poland, Hungary, etc., and so on, and they have done in our country such unheard of atrocities against ... proletarian "comrades" in the class struggle, which humanity has never seen.

                        So either "for Faith, Tsar and Fatherland" or shameful slavery and death for other people's interests.
                      5. Bar1
                        Bar1 1 December 2021 13: 42
                        +3
                        Quote: Konnick
                        Proletarians of all countries, unite!


                        the fact is that on the other side of the barricades they have learned to combine interests, and therefore they always act in concert.
                        But the people, unfortunately, cannot do this. You try to create an organization yourself among friends, relatives and you will see that everyone has "their own point of view."
                        Therefore, it is impossible to "unite" organize especially the proletarians.
                2. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 15: 24
                  +5
                  Quote: Bar1
                  I believe that those who served the Bolsheviks made a deal with their consciences

                  But they probably thought that they acted according to their conscience. As servants of the people, patriots and just decent people.
                  Quote: Bar1
                  Bolshevism is a bloody regime.

                  Compared with the White Guards, it is the standard of humanism.
                3. Valerikk
                  Valerikk 1 December 2021 12: 32
                  0
                  Quote: Bar1
                  I believe that those who served the Bolsheviks made a deal with their consciences

                  You would not touch the conscience of these people.
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 1 December 2021 13: 36
                    +3
                    Quote: Valerikk
                    You would not touch the conscience of these people.


                    Did you come here from the psychoanalysis forum?
                    1. Valerikk
                      Valerikk 1 December 2021 18: 55
                      0
                      Quote: Bar1
                      Did you come here from the psychoanalysis forum?

                      Past. Wang further
              2. Bar1
                Bar1 30 November 2021 14: 16
                -6
                Quote: Konnick
                Yes, there was the "Spring" affair, but most of them calmly survived to old age.


                yeah, how did you think that the "majority"? Most were still in the White Guard.
                And how the officers in the USSR lived can be traced to the example of General Slashchev, the Reds did not like him and in the end he was shot in 29g.
                1. Konnick
                  Konnick 30 November 2021 14: 27
                  +5
                  yeah, how did you think that the "majority"? Most were still in the White Guard.

                  Of course, I didn’t think others.

                  During the civil war, 75 thousand former officers served in the Red Army, while about 35 thousand people served in the White Army. from the 150 thousandth officer corps of the Russian Empire. About 40 thousand former officers and generals did not take part in the Civil War. Other figures are also cited by historians. The ratio at the beginning of the Civil War is 40% of the officers of the Russian army in the Red Army, 30% in the White Army, 30% - did not fight. By the end of the war, the ratio had changed significantly in favor of the "Reds".
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 30 November 2021 14: 32
                    -6
                    Quote: Konnick
                    During the civil war, 75 thousand former officers served in the Red Army, while about 35 thousand people served in the White Army. from the 150 thousandth officer corps of the Russian Empire. Eye


                    I cannot understand for what ideals and for what truth did the Russian officers serve as the Reds? To take away and divide everything?
                    There could be no peace, because the war was going on, the soldiers could still be brainwashed, but the officers were unlikely.
                    Land for the peasants is not the slogan for which the officers would follow.
                    And for what interests did the Russian officers fight for the Reds then?
                    1. Konnick
                      Konnick 30 November 2021 14: 39
                      +11
                      З
                      Land for the peasants is not the slogan for which the officers would follow.
                      And for what interests did the Russian officers fight for the Reds then?


                      Brusilov said so

                      And who, if not the Bolsheviks, together with the Russian people defended our land from greedy foreign states in the civil war? ..

                      And where were you, to whom did you go to work at that time, gentlemen?

                      To the Germans, the French, or maybe the Romanians?

                      The land is different, but we have one.
                      1. Bar1
                        Bar1 30 November 2021 14: 43
                        -8
                        Quote: Konnick
                        Brusilov said so

                        And who, if not the Bolsheviks, together with the Russian people defended our land from greedy foreign states in the civil war? ..


                        read the story.

                        The provisional government of Lvov / Kerensky confirmed the Allied obligations to the Entente, and the intervention began formally because of the Bolsheviks.
                        By the way, have they forgotten about the Peace of Brest? The Germans occupied Ukraine and Belarus, and this could have been avoided if there were no fights for power in St. Petersburg with all the subsequent betrayals.
                    2. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 15: 32
                      +7
                      Quote: Bar1
                      I cannot understand for what ideals and for what truth did the Russian officers serve as the Reds? To take away and divide everything?

                      And for what ideals up to a hundred years before that noblemen and educated people in general (including officers) were promoted to revolutionaries? Paying with freedom, health and life itself? Socialism was a super idea at that time! They followed him.
                      Quote: Bar1
                      the soldiers could still be puzzled, but the officers were unlikely

                      And the officers didn’t have to go crazy - they themselves stood up for an IMMEDIATE peace with the Germans.
                      Quote: Bar1
                      Land for the peasants is not the slogan for which the officers would follow.

                      What would they go for? Land for landlords? lol
                      Quote: Bar1
                      And for what interests did the Russian officers fight for the Reds then?

                      Including for a united and indivisible Russia.
                      1. Bar1
                        Bar1 30 November 2021 15: 35
                        -11
                        it's even disgusting to talk to you, you're just talking nonsense.
                      2. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 15: 39
                        +8
                        Of course! On the topic, you have nothing to argue, the only thing that remains is that from around the corner "himself" squeak. bully
                  2. Ryazan87
                    Ryazan87 30 November 2021 15: 30
                    -3
                    About 170 thousand officers passed through the white armies. In the armies of various states that were formed after the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia - 35-40 thousand.
                    As for the Reds, in the end they actually had about 70-75 thousand officers, of whom 48 thousand were mobilized, 14 thousand were former prisoners of the White armies. Thousand 10 - yes, relatively voluntarily.
                    And even this figure is not very reliable, so it was formally red for some time and Kappel served, for example.
                2. Konnick
                  Konnick 30 November 2021 14: 30
                  +7
                  can be traced to the example of General Slashchev, the Reds did not like him and in the end he was shot in 29g.

                  You at least looked at Wikipedia.

                  On January 11, as we reported, the former Wrangel general and military school teacher Ya. A. Slashchev was killed in his apartment in Moscow. The murderer, by the name of Kohlenberg, 24 years old, said that the murder was committed out of revenge for his brother, who was executed by order of Slashchev during the civil war. <…> In connection with the murder, an investigation is being carried out. Yesterday at 16:30 pm, the cremation of the body of the late Ya. A. Slashchev took place in the Moscow crematorium.


                  On the anniversary of the liberation of Crimea from Wrangel, a general amnesty was announced, among other things.
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 30 November 2021 14: 35
                    -9
                    Quote: Konnick
                    You at least looked at Wikipedia.


                    do you 100% believe these articles? Me not.

                    Quote: Konnick
                    On the anniversary of the liberation of Crimea from Wrangel, a general amnesty was announced, among other things.

                    well, yes, and then 37g came and the officers were shot, like ALL COSSACKS were shot
                    1. Konnick
                      Konnick 30 November 2021 14: 45
                      +9
                      well, yes, and then 37g came and the officers were shot, like ALL COSSACKS were shot

                      Are you one of the mummers or what, although the name is Tatar? Where did the 4th Don Cavalry Division come from?
                      1. Bar1
                        Bar1 30 November 2021 14: 52
                        -9
                        Quote: Konnick
                        Are you one of the mummers or what? Where did the 4th Don Cavalry Division come from?


                        Why immediately from the mummers?
                        My ancestors are Cossacks from Lake Borovoe Kazakstan, I will write correctly, the village of Kuturkul.

                        Quote: Konnick
                        Where did the 4th Don Cavalry Division come from?


                        Well, at first, maybe there were Cossacks, but then the Bolsheviks DESTROYED all the Cossacks. The division was disbanded in 41g.
                        How many Cossack troops were in Ingushetia and how many were in the USSR? No one.
                      2. Bar1
                        Bar1 30 November 2021 16: 01
                        -9
                        Quote: Konnick
                        although by the name of a Tatar?

                        Timur / Tamerlane was most likely one of the Cossacks.

                  2. Ryazan87
                    Ryazan87 30 November 2021 15: 34
                    -4
                    On the anniversary of the liberation of Crimea from Wrangel, a general amnesty was announced, among other things.

                    There were a lot of "smart people" who believed her. For example, General Sekretev. I managed to serve for several years. Then he was shot in the "Cossack Bloc" case. Slashchev, however, did not have time, but he just did not live up to 31st.
                    The "former" in the early 30s were thoroughly cleaned out.
              3. tank64rus
                tank64rus 1 December 2021 15: 57
                0
                After Shilovsky-Roshchin divorced his wife, who went to Bulgakov. He rested in a sanatorium of the Red Army, where he met the daughter of A. Tolstoy, who was resting in the same place, and then married her. In his novel, Tolstoy took a lot from Roshchin's memoirs about the civil war. Even an episode about a meeting at the railway station in Tsaritsyno. There is a lot to argue about the civil war. You just need to remember that everyone there had their own truth. But as soon as the officers realized that the Bolsheviks were fighting for the revival of Russia in a different status, they supported them anyway. Remember the appeal of the Bolsheviks to former officers after the Polish attack in 1920. Well, the words of Lenin about the military experts.
            2. saygon66
              saygon66 1 December 2021 15: 06
              0
              It should be remembered here that Ivan Ilyich Telegin was no stranger to politics before the war ... And it is very possible that he joined the army under the influence of patriotic impulses ... Like many representatives of the Russian intelligentsia, however ... According to modern terminology - "Blazer".... lol
              And after the war, the country needed competent specialists, and it can be assumed that among them was Ivan Telegin.
          3. AAK
            AAK 30 November 2021 21: 47
            +3
            I disagree with you, Pavel. In the civilian community, most of the former officers did not serve as commanders, but were categorized as "military experts," that is, rather, development consultants with military education or combat experience. The military experts were "observed" by painters and commissars and security officers, often with appropriate "organizational conclusions." It should be noted that Trotsky most actively promoted the use of military experts of the pre-revolutionary council, and in a large part - either under the personal guarantee (up to the highest measure) of former officers who had already served in the Red Army, or by taking hostages from among close relatives.
            As for the thesis that most of the top commanders in the Second World War are tsarist officers, it is also wrong. Most of the Soviet marshals and generals of the army are rather former non-commissioned officers - Budyonny, Zhukov, Rokossovsky, Konev, Eremenko. Also, EMNIP, not one of the tsarist officers Tolbukhin, Meretskov, Malinovsky, Baghramyan ... The officers of the tsarist army (regular, or received an officer's rank for military merit) were Shaposhnikov, Vasilevsky, Govorov, Tyulenev, Petrov (who is Ivan Efimovich, general of the army, the head of the defense of Odessa and Sevastopol). Many former tsarist officers were indeed in the Main Sea Staff of the RKKF.
            Indeed, the former tsarist officers made a significant contribution to the development of the Red Army in the 20s-30s, almost all military academic science was based on them, strategy also (especially the Triandafillov). Well, you shouldn't forget about the former Colonel Yegorov and Lieutenant Tukhachevsky either ... there were very controversial people.
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 30 November 2021 22: 00
              +3
              Who was the first Red Chief of Staff of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief? His Excellency Lieutenant General of the Imperial Army Mikhail Dmitrievich Bonch-Bruevich.

              Who was the commander-in-chief of all the Armed Forces of the Soviet Republic? Sergei Sergeevich Kamenev, Colonel of the Imperial Army.

              Who was the Chief of the Field Headquarters of the Red Army? Pavel Pavlovich Lebedev, hereditary nobleman, Major General of the Imperial Army.

              Who was the Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army Command in Siberia? Alexander Alexandrovich von Taube, Lieutenant General of the Imperial Army ..

              Who beat off Yudenich from Petrograd? Sergei Dmitrievich Kharlamov, Colonel of the Imperial Army .. And he was helped by Sergei Ivanovich Odintsov, Major General of the Imperial Army ...

              Who commanded the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Fleet? Vasily Mikhailovich Altfater (hereditary nobleman, rear admiral of the Imperial Navy), Evgeny Andreevich Berens (hereditary nobleman, rear admiral of the Imperial Navy), Alexander Vasilyevich Nemitts (personal data are exactly the same).

              And so on and so forth...
              1. AAK
                AAK 1 December 2021 22: 28
                +1
                Dear colleague Pavel, your comment is more likely support for what I have said, because out of the 4 persons you mentioned, 3 are "staff officers", not commanders, and Bonch-Bruevich is a scout, not a commander of field forces. As for Kamenev, he did not command for long ...
                And to the naval ones, I would also add Alafuzov and Isakov (Ter-Isakyan).
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 1 December 2021 22: 34
                  +2
                  Duc - a successful commander could be a genius from the people, like the same Frunze, but the chief of staff with him - already without proper military education and experience is not a channel .. And the genius himself, without the correct chief of staff, was of little use. It was here that the tsarist generals came in handy.
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 30 November 2021 10: 19
          +5
          Germany, on the other hand, used the WWII officers with might and main in WWII and this largely explains the great superiority in command of the Wehrmacht and Red Army units in the initial period of the war.

          Well, well - what then explains the superiority in the command of the Red Army in the second half of the war? Something like experience accumulated by both sides, with a solid initial handicap nemchura?
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 30 November 2021 10: 58
          +9
          Quote: Olgovich
          Germany, on the other hand, used the WWII officers with might and main in WWII and this largely explains the great superiority in command of the Wehrmacht and Red Army units in the initial period of the war.

          France too used WWII officers in full force in WWII... And what did it give her? wink
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 November 2021 13: 44
            -9
            Quote: Alexey RA
            France also used WWII officers with might and main in WWII. And what did it give her?

            officers are a tool: someone used it, someone did not, and someone destroyed it with their own hands.

            PS for the period of time during which France was conquered, two occupied territories of France were occupied in the USSR and the losses of the Nazis in aviation and tanks were less than in France.

            Have the USSR the territory of France, then ......
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 15: 43
              +4
              Quote: Olgovich
              officers are a tool

              The instrument is also different. By quality.
        4. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 15: 18
          +4
          Quote: Olgovich
          they were simply holding the officers by the throats with a stranglehold of starvation; they forcibly called officers into their army in the face of taking families hostage.

          Only the red officers themselves did not know about this. As well as the Whites, who found masses of officers on the territory recaptured from the Reds, sitting at home and not wanting to serve anywhere. soldier
          Quote: Olgovich
          Germany, on the other hand, used the WWII officers with might and main in WWII and this largely explains the great superiority in command of the Wehrmacht and Red Army units in the initial period of the war.

          And what explains the superiority in the command of the Reichswehr over the RIA during the entire war?
      3. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 09: 10
        -8
        “They went over to serve in the Red Army” - they did not go over, but were mobilized, this is not at all the same thing.
        "The General Staff in full force began to serve the Soviet power" - and where was it located? Try not to serve in mobilization.
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 30 November 2021 10: 22
          +7
          Don't you find it strange that in the civil war the side won, the army of which was commanded like forcibly mobilized cadres? And the side staffed with committed volunteers lost?
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 17: 33
            +1
            There is nothing strange in the victory of the Reds. By no means all of their command cadres consisted of mobilized officers, and there were not so many white ideological volunteers. And if we compare the size of the Armed Forces of the White and Red ....
            1. Region-25.rus
              Region-25.rus 30 November 2021 19: 33
              +3
              And if you compare the size of the Armed Forces of the white and red ....
              and if we compare how many people supported both ...)))
        2. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 30 November 2021 10: 58
          +3
          Both sides were mobilized.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 17: 34
            +3
            Both, of course, but on different scales.
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 17: 40
              +5
              Volunteers were also in both armies. And also on different scales.
              1. Sergey Valov
                Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 17: 48
                +3
                Naturally, but neither one nor the other could leave on volunteers. But with the mobilization of the Reds, things were incomparably better. Look at your leisure, the quantitative composition of the warring parties.
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 17: 55
                  +6
                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  with the mobilization of the Reds, things were incomparably better

                  Without any doubt! And not only with mobilization. Therefore, the result.
                  1. Sergey Valov
                    Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 18: 24
                    +1
                    “That is why the result” - I agree with this completely.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 30 November 2021 11: 06
          +8
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          "The General Staff in full force began to serve the Soviet power" - and where was it located? Try not to serve in mobilization.

          The ideological opponents of the new government just tried - and did not serve it, leaving, for example, to the Don, to Kaledin... Or they went even more roundabout ways - like Admiral Mikhail Berens, who left Petrograd in 1919 through Finland to the Far East, to Kolchak.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 17: 36
            -3
            There were few ideological ones. I did not initially write about the threat of reprisals to family members.
      4. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 30 November 2021 09: 33
        +1
        I do not argue ... thanks to their help, the formation of the Red Army took place from a crowd into an organized force. hi
      5. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 30 November 2021 13: 02
        -2
        70% of the officers of the tsarist army went to serve in the Red Army

        Of course no. Even taking into account the mobilizations (which gave the bulk of the officers in the Red Army) and the deployment of prisoners from the White armies.
    2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 30 November 2021 12: 01
      +2
      By the way, being with distant relatives in South Africa, there I also heard in the local history museum of the city of Pretoria that several RIA officers after the revolution came to live in the then South African Republic (* the old name of South Africa) and served this country very well. However, I have no doubt about it - Russia will not give bad things!
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 14: 54
        +2
        Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        served this country very well

        Especially by African standards lol
        1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 30 November 2021 19: 33
          +2
          No need to sneer - the level of Russian education, both civilian and military, was high before the revolution. Therefore, our emigrants worked and served well everywhere. Poorly, they simply did not know how! And it doesn't matter where - even in Australia, even in Africa, even in Antarctica.
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 1 December 2021 11: 24
            0
            Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            our emigrants worked and served well everywhere

            Only in different qualities. Someone reached high posts in the Aboriginal army, and someone all their life as a taxi driver or "garcon" has worked well -. With their education. Depends on the country of residence. About those who just got drunk, a separate conversation ...
            1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 1 December 2021 11: 48
              0
              I will not argue - you are right! Everything is exactly like that, even at home, even abroad.
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 30 November 2021 21: 27
        +3
        1932-1935.
        South America.
        War between Bolivia and Paraguay.
        There are many Germans in the Bolivian army.
        There are Russians in the army of Paraguay - emigrants after the revolution.
        The area was disputed with a "presumptive oil field".
        After the war, it turned out that there was no oil.
        And the territory went to Paraguay.
        1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 1 December 2021 11: 53
          +1
          It was the so-called. "Chakskaya war". I have come across a book about this war in the past. There were interesting moments ... But the Russian WWI veterans turned out to be stronger than their German colleagues! True, I involuntarily felt pride in our former. Well done!
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 1 December 2021 12: 09
            +1
            Then you simply have to read about the "Russian Jack" and the monument erected in his honor in the Australian town of Halls Creek.
            1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 1 December 2021 12: 11
              0
              Thanks, I will read!
  6. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 30 November 2021 07: 28
    +2
    Thanks to the author for the article. Quite objectively. But as history has shown, the army was treated with respect only then, it was necessary to save - the state. Both the army and the navy have been the cannon fodder of our country for centuries. The same attitude, I think, was under the kings.
    1. Ashes of Claes
      Ashes of Claes 30 November 2021 10: 44
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Both the army and the navy have been the cannon fodder of our country for centuries.

      Any army is cannon fodder. The question is how much of this very meat those who make political and military decisions are ready to sacrifice. Verdun and Gallipoli, for example, greatly influenced strategy in the Interbellum and WWII.
    2. Edward Vashchenko
      Edward Vashchenko 30 November 2021 13: 12
      +5
      Both the army and the navy have been the cannon fodder of our country for centuries.

      This is absolutely not true about our country.
      hi
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 19: 05
        +1
        Did you write it out of patriotism or knowledge?
        PS - in this case, "untruth" is written together.
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          Edward Vashchenko 30 November 2021 21: 09
          0
          And what do you no longer like: patriotism or knowledge, or both?
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 22: 33
            +2
            It is clear that they did not dare to answer the question, so at least without spelling errors.
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              Edward Vashchenko 30 November 2021 23: 03
              0
              I didn't dare
              Why is that?
              And knowledge and patriotism.
              And you, a competent and decisive one, why didn’t please?
              When there are no arguments, at least to cling to typos?
  7. tatra
    tatra 30 November 2021 07: 36
    +8
    It seems to me that the root of the Civil War is largely in this portrait - some of the officers went over to the side of the new state, while others put things in order - the way they understood and knew how.

    Well, yes, good "order" is to untie the Civil War, kill their fellow citizens, run to grovel before the invaders of their homeland by the invaders.
    And most importantly, WHY, besides the fact that the White Guards wanted to overthrow the power of the Bolsheviks? What did they want to do useful for Russia and the Russian people? What kind of power and System?
    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 30 November 2021 12: 10
      +4
      I see that the Civil War in our minds is not over ...
  8. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 30 November 2021 07: 59
    +2
    It seems to me that the root of the Civil War is largely in this portrait - some of the officers went over to the side of the new state, while others put things in order - the way they understood and knew how.
    "There is such a profession, to defend the Motherland" (c) .. The first are really the Motherland, they defended .. the second, the motherland .. not without the help of strangers.
  9. Crowe
    Crowe 30 November 2021 08: 49
    +11
    “Rejected by the country, abandoned by the army, alienated from his family, Nicholas II was left alone; there was no one else for him to rely on, there was nothing more for him to hope for "
    Rear Admiral Alexander Bubnov.
    "Around betrayal, and cowardice, and deceit"
    From the diary (entry of March 2, 1917) of the Russian Emperor Nicholas II, made by him on the day of his abdication
    Autocracy has outlived itself as a project, that's all.
    1. CTABEP
      CTABEP 30 November 2021 15: 06
      +7
      To be honest, I vaguely imagine how Father Nicholas 2 (or Peter, or Nicholas 1) would be forced to bend in a similar situation. It is possible to kill (although knowing the tough temper of Alexander III - most likely the first killed would have been General Ruzsky), but to bring the situation to this point is unlikely.
  10. Bez 310
    Bez 310 30 November 2021 09: 05
    +1
    Thank you, very interesting.
  11. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 09: 09
    +4
    "In principle, by the First World War, assault in the army was minimized" - and how did he, this minimum, look like? Judging by what the WWI soldiers say, "not a minimum" is when an officer is not doing anything other than beating up soldiers ...
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 30 November 2021 10: 17
      +7
      "not a minimum" is when an officer is not doing anything other than beating up soldiers ...

      Read Kuprin: "The regiment commander announced the formation at 9.00:8.00. The battalion commanders ordered to line up at 7.00:6.00, company commanders at 5.00:XNUMX, platoon commanders at XNUMX:XNUMX. Unther raised the soldiers at XNUMX:XNUMX. As a result, not a single soldier's muzzle remained in the regiment."
      1. CTABEP
        CTABEP 30 November 2021 15: 09
        +3
        So Kuprin resigned 20 years before the events described, in 1894.
    2. CTABEP
      CTABEP 30 November 2021 15: 08
      +1
      I wonder where this information comes from?
      To a minimum - this is plus or minus to the modern level. Which, as it was established at the beginning of the last century, does not change, whoever is in power - the king, the secretary general or the president. The units where they beat with mortal combat were also under the USSR, and now the army is huge. But on average now, fortunately, is not the 18th century.
    3. mat-vey
      mat-vey 30 November 2021 15: 49
      +4
      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
      "In principle, by the First World War, assault in the army was minimized" - and how did he, this minimum, look like? Judging by what the WWI soldiers say, "not a minimum" is when an officer is not doing anything other than beating up soldiers ...

      Probably to this ..... in 1915, as evidenced, for example, gene. A. I. Denikin, “two factors were of undoubted importance in creating an unfavorable mood in the troops ... the disciplinary punishment with rods and the death penalty, introduced since 1915, was officially introduced to the“ stickmen ”.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 17: 26
        +1
        And the massacre in connection with this has really decreased?
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 30 November 2021 17: 38
          +2
          so the fact of the matter is that both "officially" and "out of friendship - fatherly" and everything in the face .. and people who are already accustomed to the sight of death and to kill during the war ...
  12. Illanatol
    Illanatol 30 November 2021 09: 31
    +9
    Quote: Olgovich
    Germany, on the other hand, used the WWII officers with might and main in WWII and this largely explains the great superiority in command of the Wehrmacht and Red Army units in the initial period of the war.


    And France, for example, did not use officers and generals, WWI veterans in 1940?
    Well, how did they show their superiority? But they were from the "generation of winners", in contrast to the Germans.

    Subdivisions (ie, up to and including the battalion, the regiment is already a "unit") are commanded by officers of the junior and middle rank. As a rule, their age is small, that is, they were, in the majority, prepared after the end of the First World War.
    In fact, by 1941, most of the officers, WWI veterans, were just about to retire. If in 1914 they were 30-35 years old, then how many - by 1941?
    The exception is generals, it is typical for them to be middle-aged.
    1. CTABEP
      CTABEP 30 November 2021 15: 14
      +3
      It's just that in Germany the experience of WWI was adopted and improved. And in France they rested on their laurels. Plus, the French in WWI broke like a nation - more than 20% of the mobilized men died - this, in percentage terms, is perhaps stronger than ours in the Second World War. NS
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 30 November 2021 17: 18
        +3
        And who drove the French and the inhabitants of the colonies to the German machine guns?
        French officers!
        It turns out that they did not know how to do it differently?
        The Germans also relied on the "warlike spirit of the burgher"!
        And they drove their infantry to the French machine guns!
        One "Verdun massacre" cost the Germans from February 21 to June 15, 1916 - 357 thousand killed and wounded.
        And by the end of December 1916, the French pushed the Germans back to the very positions from which they went on the attack in February 1916.
        Let's pay tribute to the Germans - during the Second World War they tried not to indulge in such attacks!
        But the technical level of the Wehrmacht was also higher than that of the army of Emperor Wilhelm II.
        So they tried to bypass, surround, break through the defense in a weak spot.
        They did not want to "fall" into bloody battles like PMA again!
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 17: 30
          +1
          Quote: hohol95
          Let's pay tribute to the Germans - during the Second World War they tried not to indulge in such attacks!

          Nevertheless: "Now some historians often state that the Red Army men went into continuous attacks, filling up German trenches with their corpses, leaving mountains of dead bodies on the battlefield. I have not personally seen this, but heaps of killed Germans in front of our machine guns, in those days I've seen.
          Four days of continuous battle. Drunken Germans attacked through the mountains of their dead, and we "mowed" them, stupefied from what was happening, we only had time to bring cartridges. The Germans approached fifty meters, but could not break through us. It is difficult to describe in words what was happening there. It was a living hell! "(D.A. Elkin)
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 30 November 2021 17: 59
            +2
            "BlitzKrieg's frenzy" sometimes "demolished the tower" and the Germans!
            And the headquarters could not understand how the "wild Asians" could resist the "true Aryans" for so long!
            And they drove their field units forward and forward!
            It is a pity that there were few such cases. For 4 years of war.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. CTABEP
          CTABEP 1 December 2021 10: 38
          +1
          Interestingly, "undermined France" could have taken Berlin by storm in 1918?


          If RI had not dropped out of the war, then most likely yes. And so Germany was on the verge of collapse, had they continued the war - well, not in 1918, so in 1919 French boots would have rumbled on the streets of Berlin.
          1. Illanatol
            Illanatol 4 December 2021 13: 57
            0
            Quote: CTABEP
            If RI had not dropped out of the war, then most likely yes. And so Germany was on the verge of collapse,


            Oh really? What kind of crash are we talking about? What part of Germany did the Entente troops manage to capture, what cities and fortresses did they capture?
            For a successful occupation, at least a two-fold superiority in forces was needed. Was he with the Entente? In the most important type of weapons - artillery, Germany even had superiority.
            As for Russia ... so what did it come to? And how successful were the actions of the Russian army against Germany even after the change of the regime?
            However, it was our front that was falling apart, not the German one. And one shouldn't blame everything on revolutionary propaganda - it became effective as a result of military failures, and was not their cause. If military actions were successful for Russia, the revolutionaries would have no chance, just as there would be no political upheavals.
            There would be no French boots on the Berlin streets. Both sides displayed extreme bitterness, including towards the civilian population. If the armies of the Entente (in them, by the end of the war, natives from the colonies appeared) entered the German lands, the German soldiers would have an additional, very powerful motivation - the protection of relatives and friends from the cruel aggressor. The war for the Germans would have become "patriotic" and it would hardly have been possible to defeat them.
        2. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 1 December 2021 12: 43
          0
          "Could have taken Berlin by storm in 1918?" - why take it by storm? Germany surrendered without bringing it to this. In addition, the British also fought on the Western Front.
          1. Illanatol
            Illanatol 1 December 2021 14: 10
            +1
            Quote: Sergey Valov
            "Could have taken Berlin by storm in 1918?" - why take it by storm? Germany surrendered without bringing it to this. In addition, the British also fought on the Western Front.


            And then. If there were no Bolsheviks, with their revolution and the Brest-Litovsk Peace, why would Germany capitulate?
            Germany initially asked for a truce for two months. A truce was required to suppress revolutionary uprisings in the army. They also began on the Western Front after divisions from the former Eastern Front were transferred there (after peace with the Bolsheviks). The Entente agreed to an armistice because it was afraid that the "plague of Bolshevism" would spread to the Allied armies.
            It was not possible to suppress the revolutionary infection in the German army, after the armistice the soldiers flatly refused to fight, and then Germany had to surrender, and Wilhelm lost his crown.

            And there would be no revolutionary sentiments and actions - the Germans would have fought to the last, as in the Second World War. Moreover, the Entente troops also did not always behave like a gentleman, although only the Boches were usually reproached for barbarism.
            The contribution of the British, like the Yankees, should not be overestimated. The Anglo-Saxons are not at all eager to fight on their own, more and more they are counting on their allies. Their losses in WWI were more modest than those of the French.
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov 1 December 2021 16: 50
              +1
              Don't confuse WWII with WWII. There were no insurmountable contradictions between the warring parties, no one was going to fight until the "flag over the Reichstag".
              "Anglo-Saxons are not at all eager to fight on their own" - oh, those USE victims and Internet experts.
              1. Illanatol
                Illanatol 3 December 2021 14: 32
                0
                Quote: Sergey Valov
                Don't confuse WWII with WWII. There were no insurmountable contradictions between the warring parties, no one was going to fight until the "flag over the Reichstag".


                Only your IMHO. It is enough to get acquainted with the samples of the then propaganda in order to assess the level of mutual hatred of the belligerent parties.

                Well, where did the Anglo-Saxons fight alone? Specific examples in the studio!
                Always these gentlemen tried to rake in the heat with someone else's hands.
                From the showdown with Napoleon to the recent campaigns in Iraq, they have always tried to attract allies. It didn't always help, however.
                1. Sergey Valov
                  Sergey Valov 3 December 2021 15: 42
                  0
                  "Well, where did the Anglo-Saxons fight alone?" - with Argentina 40 years ago, all colonial wars, with the United States. If interested, ask yourself. And that they always tried to look for allies, it is more than intelligence, but not cowardice.
                  1. Illanatol
                    Illanatol 4 December 2021 13: 46
                    0
                    "Well, where did the Anglo-Saxons fight alone?" - with Argentina 40 years ago, all colonial wars, with the United States.


                    With Argentina? Doesn't feel like a full-fledged war, just a conflict.
                    By the way, not only the British fought there, the natives-Gurkhas were plowed up.
                    So, there were allies, you won’t write the Gurkhas in the Anglo-Saxons.
                    Colonial Wars? With the Papuans and the "rebellious Zulus"? With firearms against darts and Assegai?
                    From the USA? I have to disappoint you, the Yankees are also Anglo-Saxons, in the majority. In addition, both sides used local Native American allies.
                    In short, fail.
                    And they were looking for allies - not so much from a great mind, but from meanness (they regularly threw allies) and an awareness of their weakness. The Britons had a strong fleet, but the land forces were ... so-so.

                    So the capture of Berlin in 1918 is a complete anril. The British and French had a thin gut. If it were not for the "plague of Bolshevism" - it is not known when and how this European massacre would have ended.
                    1. Sergey Valov
                      Sergey Valov 4 December 2021 15: 47
                      0
                      "How much from a big mind, how much from meanness"
                      "A full-fledged war does not pull"
                      “Not only the British fought, the natives-Gurkhas were plowed up” - I did not even imagine that everything could be so neglected, but I got pleasure. Thanks. Farewell. You don't have to answer.
    2. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 17: 41
      +2
      "If they were 1914-30 years old in 35, then how many - by 1941?" - the army is dominated by lieutenants - captains aged 22 - 30 years.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 30 November 2021 17: 55
        +4
        There was information that many British battalion commanders were over 40 years old at the beginning of WWI!
        There is no war - no movement up the career ladder ...
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 30 November 2021 18: 23
          +3
          War, of course, accelerates career growth, although there are examples of armies with constantly young officers. And the British have a rather different reason - a small army.
          "The combatants at the beginning of WWI were over 40 years old!" - by the way, Napoleon had a principle - young generals and old captains. And there is a lot of reason in this.
      2. Illanatol
        Illanatol 1 December 2021 08: 57
        +1
        The majors usually command the battalions.
        And, I suspect, in the then armies, the age of junior officers was maybe more. In peacetime, the army does not suffer losses, vacancies are not opened, and the career is progressing more slowly.
        "Aiguillette fades from peaceful life" ...
        But during the war, the officers and non-commissioned officers are getting younger. True, the level of training is falling, although experience is even growing.
        In any case, in World War II, it was mainly fresh personnel who had to fight.
  13. Glory1974
    Glory1974 30 November 2021 10: 22
    +1
    Nikolai did not want to pay his officers and generals, and they did not stand up for him.
    Likewise, in our time, Gaddafi did not want to pay his army, she soon after the start of the war all fled. Raised her salaries, but it was too late.
    Our rulers took into account the mistakes, in 2012 they raised salaries in the army, but then they stopped indexing it. Probably the threat of war has come to naught, or do not feel request
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 30 November 2021 15: 13
      +1
      Quote: glory1974
      Nikolai did not want to pay his officers and generals, and they did not stand up for him.

      Did the salary level not match the level of fidelity to the oath? And for how much did these gentlemen want to love their sovereign? bully
      1. Illanatol
        Illanatol 1 December 2021 09: 00
        +3
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        Did the salary level not match the level of loyalty to the oath?


        The oath was taken personally to the emperor. But Nicholas himself, abdicating the throne, released his officers from the oath. As you know, there were no successors to the throne.
        And the Provisional Government is already another calico, perhaps it is not worth reproaching those who were not eager to serve these murky gentlemen.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 1 December 2021 11: 25
          0
          Quote: Illanatol
          But Nicholas himself, abdicating the throne, released his officers from the oath. As you know, there were no successors to the throne

          This is the truth. And the salary has nothing to do with it.
      2. Glory1974
        Glory1974 1 December 2021 09: 27
        -1
        And for how much did these gentlemen want to love their sovereign?

        If a person cannot live on his salary, he begins to be in opposition to the authorities. After the emperor's resignation, the officers were released from the oath, and everyone began to defend the Motherland as best he could.
        The Bolsheviks showed that they were building a more just state than imperial Russia, so the majority went to them.
        That is, until a certain moment it was possible to keep the army on its side, and then it did not matter how much to pay, everything collapsed.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 1 December 2021 11: 27
          -1
          And there are people who, in principle, are unable to live on a salary. And for income in general. They always miss. And very often they are in opposition ...
  14. ccsr
    ccsr 30 November 2021 11: 49
    +3
    Author:
    Roman Ivanov
    The program of the Officer Rifle School, which trained the battalion commanders, has survived - the study of personal weapons (assembly-disassembly, shooting) - 144 hours, tactics - 24 hours. I will repeat myself - battalion commanders, that is, serving officers with a long record of service.

    The author should take into account that, firstly, this is the program of the Shooting School, where shooting skills are improved, and secondly, the battalion commander is obliged to improve the skills of shooting from all the small arms of the battalion, otherwise how will he train and control subordinates if he himself does not shoot badly from the same Mosin rifle or the Maxim machine gun.
    Moreover, the data on the entire program of the Shooting School are not provided and how long training in other sciences lasted, in order to understand 144 hours, this is a lot or a little, taking into account the fact that classes take place in the field, on a shooting range or a shooting range, and this requires more time, at least for moving. Yes, and not everyone can shoot at the same time, but you can listen to a lecture on tactics in an audience with a large number of listeners at the same time. Well, I don’t believe that our officers were so stupid at that time that they didn’t understand how to organize training or didn’t want to work on it. So this example with the Officer Rifle School is not entirely appropriate without taking into account all the details of the training itself.
    The best way to understand how the training in the guard took place is from the book "Cuirassier's Notes" - a lot of details are described there, even in the training of the lower ranks.
    1. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 30 November 2021 15: 20
      +4
      how was the training in the guard

      It would also be good to use the memories of Yu.V. Makarova "My service in the Old Guard. 1905-1917. Peacetime and war." It is very informative in terms of service, exercises, etc.
      By the way, here's about training in shooting:
      "... In 1912, the development of a new instruction for shooting training began, in connection with the introduction of a new pointed bullet, which greatly increased the flatness. The length of a direct shot, which was earlier than 100 steps, rose to six hundred. In this regard, the aiming block was redesigned. The Hungarian rifle charter was taken as a model, which, among other things, introduced such innovations as shooting in squares and at closed targets. With such tasks, our infantry gradually turned into artillery. To test this new charter from the entire Russian army were assigned six regiments, of which from the Guards We alone. With this kind of shooting, the chief importance was given to the leadership of the officers. Changes in the distance in depth were achieved by changing the sight. On the front - by indicating the conditional points of the sight. For example, the first platoon aims three fingers to the right of the rightmost tree. The second in the middle of a group of trees, the third - in the upper right corner of the target depicting a hut.
      With such complex tasks, one team was impossible to do. A lot of explanations were required from both officers and non-commissioned officers. And most importantly, each warrior had to understand his maneuver. Determination of distances also played an important role. This was also an officer's business. The black box of the old rangefinder "syche" was almost never used. For large-scale shooting, they carried an artillery rangefinder with them, on a tripod ... Sveshnikov's sixth company got a rather difficult exercise: 300 steps, lying, on the head of a new model, that is, on targets cut off to the shape of the head. Under the terms of the 11 percent hit, it was considered “excellent”. The company knocked out 65. "
      It will be useful to read Rerberg F. P. "Memories of the command of the 3rd grenadier Pernovsky king Frederick William IV regiment. 1909-1912". There, every "bone" is scrupulously painted. True, the regiment is not a Guards regiment.
      And, perhaps, Vladimir Littauer "Russian hussars. Memoirs of an officer of the imperial cavalry. 1911-1920". Such Trubetskoy without embellishment and guards chic.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 30 November 2021 18: 39
        +1
        Quote: Ryazanets87
        In 1912, the development of a new manual for training in shooting began, in connection with the introduction of a new pointed bullet, which greatly increased the flatness. The length of a straight shot, which was before 100 steps, has risen to six hundred.

        So you all explained why you urgently organized the training of battalion commanders at the Shooting School - a perfectly reasonable step to allocate 144 hours of training time for this. I understood this intuitively, and you proved the rationality of such training on the facts. Everything turned out to be sensible and reasonable from the point of view of organizing the educational process of rifle training.
      2. Ua3qhp
        Ua3qhp 1 December 2021 08: 28
        0
        Quote: Ryazanets87
        The sixth company of Sveshnikov got a rather difficult exercise: for 300 steps, lying, on the head of a new model, that is, on targets cut off to the shape of the head. Under the terms of the 11 percent hit, it was considered “excellent”. The company knocked out 65. "

        300 steps is 150 meters super straight shot range. 11 percent of hits from the three-line - not a lot.
        for AKM, and even then much tougher.
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 1 December 2021 09: 12
          +1
          300 steps is 150 meters super straight shot range. 11 percent of hits from the three-line - not a lot.
          for AKM and even then much tougher

          On the one hand, it's not a very difficult exercise. You will be surprised, but in the modern Russian army, the infantry does not shoot at the head figures, even at such a distance. If I check some average company, I will not bother if the percentage of hits from the AK does not reach 11%
        2. Ryazan87
          Ryazan87 1 December 2021 11: 55
          0
          300 steps in RIA = 210 meters. And this is the head target (something like a target
          No. 5).
  15. Wildcat
    Wildcat 30 November 2021 13: 34
    +3
    "The material aspect of service is the eternal misfortune of Russia. If an officer-landowner of the time of Alexander the First could neglect this, and the prestige of the uniform was great, then at the time of Nicholas II the realities were completely different" did not write guards units. There I also had to add a lot from my own pocket ... Memoirs of Ignatiev (dark, of course, history in France) and Trubetskoy (sorry ... sorry for both Trubetskoy) write about this directly.
  16. boris epstein
    boris epstein 30 November 2021 17: 24
    +2
    On the training of officers of the Russian army. Read And And Denikin. In the section on the Russo-Japanese War, he writes that at the company-battalion-squadron level, the Russian army was superior to the Japanese. At the level of the regiment, it was equal to the Japanese. At the division-corps level, it was significantly inferior .. And the conclusion: the training of officers of the lower and middle ranks was quite at a normal level. But the higher officers were trained disgustingly. Examples are Generals Stessel, Kuropatkin, admirals Rozhestvensky, Vitgeft, Skrydlov, Stark ... By the First World War, little has changed. Chief of the General Staff Yanushkevich stupidly planned an operation with divergent strikes by the armies of Samsonov and Reitenstein, as a result of which Samsonov's guards army was defeated.
  17. NSV
    NSV 1 December 2021 02: 02
    0
    No need to equate everyone, one size fits all !!! I remember very well, 1992, when they gave out bread in cans ... from the Bundeswehr !!! But, the officers went to the officer's guard !!! And no one cried! Yes, it took a lot !!! But the backbone of the modern army, it was then that was born !!! These officers, now in general positions, and all with combat experience !!!
  18. Vladimir
    Vladimir 1 December 2021 12: 34
    +1
    The salaries were still higher than those indicated by the author
    Second lieutenant in the army 70
    Army lieutenant 80
    Army Headquarters 90
    Army Captain 105
    Lieutenant Colonel 185-200
    Colonel 325
    Lieutenant General 500
    Full general 775 rubles per month,

    Apartment in St. Petersburg
    General - 500 rubles.
    Lieutenant General - 300 rubles.
    Major General - 300 rubles.
    Colonel - 200 rub.
    Lieutenant Colonel - 200 rubles.
    Captain - 100 rubles.
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 1 December 2021 12: 49
      0
      On the topic of Russian officers, there are many excellent works by S.V. Volkov, much more informative than this article.
  19. tank64rus
    tank64rus 1 December 2021 15: 36
    0
    Everything has passed. And he wandered around with his father in rented apartments, and then he repeated it with his family. He received his apartment in 1995, 18 years after graduation as a lieutenant colonel. At 91, I also remember how different personalities hissed in my back. At 93 I came from Siberia to Moscow for a training camp and I remember the stories of my colleagues. The officers who passed Afghan, Chernobyl worked as taxi drivers, fended roofs, put doors, laid tiles, etc. Everything to survive. I remembered the stories of A. Tolstoy about emigrants in Paris after the Civil War, how everything happened again. But there they were strangers. This is the kind of life our generation has. And then there was Chechnya.
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 1 December 2021 16: 55
      0
      “I got my apartment in 1995, 18 years after graduation, as a lieutenant colonel” - you were still lucky, but my father, a lieutenant colonel, was not given after demobilization. And this is in the prosperous 70s.
  20. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 5 December 2021 13: 00
    0
    By the beginning of the First World War, 14% of the generals of the Russian army came from underprivileged strata of the population (artisans, artisans, peasants, small employees, etc.).
  21. Illanatol
    Illanatol 8 December 2021 08: 58
    0
    Quote: Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    By the beginning of World War I, 14% of the generals of the Russian army came from underprivileged segments of the population.


    By the beginning of the First World War, 86% of the generals came from the privileged strata, in other words, the then "majors".
    So "your frying pans" flashed, so that I had to arrange a big nix at the very top.
  22. Bad Pig (Ham)
    Bad Pig (Ham) 6 February 2022 11: 35
    0
    cadre officers mowed down the first world ...
    therefore, the officer corps of 1914 and the officer corps of 1917 are completely different things that differed greatly both in class and in worldview
  23. Ingvar K
    Ingvar K 17 February 2022 13: 54
    -1
    It is necessary to read the author more carefully, he competently divided the officers before military service (World War I) and military recruitment officers. And he very correctly highlighted the problems of training officers, this infection spread to the Red Army, and then to the USSR Armed Forces. The material component of the service is also competently, albeit briefly, disclosed. For example, in the US Army, severance pay is between $13 and $000, depending on length of service and rank. And the officer's pension is $160. fuck still work if there are Maldives and Hawaii)))))