Military Review

War as a way to kill the statehood of Ukraine

66

Photo: torange.biz


The main topic, which simply cannot be ignored today, is the leitmotif of Russia's imminent attack on kind and peace-loving Ukraine. Opinions are heard from almost any iron about the correctness of the Americans, or about pressure on Kiev to start hostilities, but more often about whether Russia will attack or not.

It seems that people are crazy. They are ready to fight! Moreover, the Europeans, except for the British and Swedes, are looking at this war from the outside.

"Yes, we will impose sanctions, we will express deep concern, but we will not fight for Ukraine."

The Americans, too, do not hide the same sentiments.

"We will help with weapons, ammunition, equipment, but not a single American soldier will go to fight in Ukraine."

Even the most notorious "hawks" in the US Congress become quiet when the question of the American army in Ukraine is raised.

Sanctions?

Yes, they have long been developed and will be introduced instantly, after the start of the war! The most severe sanctions! But such that they would not be noticed by the Russian president: to limit the use of Visa cards for oligarchs, to ban travel to London and other favorite vacation spots for moneybags from Russia.

Moscow says every day that it is not going to attack a neighboring state if Kiev does not aggravate the situation in Donbass. Demonstrates the lies of the American publications through which this duck was thrown. Like a teacher at school, with a pointer, he shows the distance to the Ukrainian border of those storage bases that so excited the Americans.

And only in Kiev, in the office of the President of Ukraine, they sacredly believe in the attack of the Russians, in the ability of their own army to resist the enemy, in support of NATO and the United States not only with "deep concerns", but also with soldiers. “The whole world is with us” and the whole world is just waiting to start receiving coffins from the Donbass steppes.

Why do Russians need Ukraine?


I deliberately put the question in the title a bit provocatively.

Any Russian and the majority of Ukrainian citizens can fill their faces for such a question. Ukraine was and remains a territory inhabited by a fraternal people. And not in the figurative, but in the most direct sense of the word.

Dig deeper into the pedigree of a Russian or Ukrainian and you will see that someone once came from Ukraine, someone left for Ukraine. Moreover, this applies not only to Russia, but also to the entire former USSR. This is how the Soviet Union was organized, that after graduating from universities, young men or women could be sent to work in any republic.

I posed the question more narrowly.

Why do we need SUCH Ukraine?

A country that is heading towards its own extinction by leaps and bounds. A country where, instead of forming a single nation, they are trying to forcibly Ukrainianize other peoples. A country where power belongs ...

Although what I mean, the power does not belong, the power lies underfoot, judging by the results of almost any ongoing or implemented reform. It is easy to instill in a person that he is living badly because he is struggling with someone there. But to instill in the stomach that it is full and do not want to eat is much more difficult.

Ordinary citizens of this state almost every month are faced with new inventions of the authorities to worsen their lives. This is the lack of jobs in cities, the inability to sell crops to farmers, the lack of electricity, heat, etc., etc., etc.

So why do we need such a country?

Ukrainian steppes?

There are so many of our own that we will be domesticating them for centuries to come.

Minerals?

Is the same история, and if any of the businessmen still wants to extract them, he will find a way to do it.

People?

Those who wanted to have already become or will soon become citizens of Russia.

We don't need to lose our guys in the war against the Zelensky regime. We're an Asian. And our Asian part tells us that it is better to sit on the sidelines and see what happens. At the same time, put a slingshot next to it in order to scare away those who climb into the Donbass.

From the point of view of our geopolitical interests, it is important for us to preserve Ukraine as a big state! Let it be without part of the territories (and in the end, western Ukraine, most likely, will be returned to those from whom these lands were taken away in 1945), but a large and strong state.

Does Europe need Ukraine?


We talk and write a lot about politics. I propose to slightly change the approach.

We know very well how pragmatic Europe is. From this point of view, we will consider the relationship between the EU and Ukraine.

Have you ever thought about the root cause of such active destruction by Western countries of a huge (by European standards) state like Yugoslavia?

After all, they rushed to kill almost all European countries, led by the United States.

Why?

In Europe, a system of state relations has long been formed, when there are big and strong and there are others. We will not consider tales about the fact that Germany or France are equal to Estonia or any other Baltic country. Each cricket knows its own six.

What happened after the collapse of the USSR?

Suddenly, instead of one huge Soviet Union and socialist countries, Europe got several large states at once, capable of becoming competitors to the traditional "big and strong".

Remember where Yugoslavia and Ukraine stood in 1991 in terms of their economic potential?

The war, which went to Europe, and was aimed at splitting up a large and strong state.

What do we see today?

A bunch of small, practically insignificant in world politics, states that are simply forced to become vassals to the "big and powerful". Retinue of the leading economies of Europe.

Who is left?

Ukraine is left!

More recently, the largest and most economically developed state in Eastern Europe. Even Poland, for which Ukrainians are praying today, had a smaller population; I will simply keep silent about economic development.

And now the question.

Does the EU need a country that, while maintaining it, will break the traditional economic and political structure of Europe?

Greater Ukraine, as it develops, will demand its place in European politics and economics.

Are there those who will agree to live worse in order for Ukraine to live better?

I think now it is clear why the Europeans are pumping up our southern neighbor weapons and money. It is clear why the Ukrainian authorities are forcing them to tell the people stories about the Russian threat. It is understandable why the Nazis are not noticed on the Kiev streets.

Europe sleeps and sees instead of Ukraine a handful of small countries ready to do whatever "big and strong" wants.

And immediately after this disintegration begins, we will see a massive admission of ce-Europeans to the EU and NATO as part of their microstates.

Does the USA need Ukraine?


Unlike Europe's “economic” approach, Ukraine was politically important for the United States. As a territory that will constantly irritate Russia. A sort of state hemorrhoids for Russians.

Alas, for Ukraine, but US priorities have changed. The Kremlin calmly reacts to all the "scarecrows" of the Americans and NATO, periodically demonstrating weapons that the Western military has never dreamed of yet. Remember the bomber over the American ship in the Black Sea, after the flight of which all control systems simply died.

There were also "Calibers" from the Caspian Sea, which showed an efficiency many times greater than the "Tamaghawks". There were hypersonic missiles. There was a shot satellite in Earth orbit. There was an accidental slip of the tongue from President Putin about some kind of kinetic weapon ...

Increasingly, Washington began to listen to the military. The Pentagon, through the lips of its retirees, calls for a transition from emotions in the Ukrainian issue to reality. The military understands that it is more expensive for themselves to get involved in an open conflict with Russia. In this case, there is no guarantee that any of the Russian "toys" will not fly right into the heart of the American army.

Here's one quote from a former US State Department official, Samuel Charap:

“Since the Russians have been occupying Ukrainian territory for seven years now, they know very well that we are not going to send the 82nd Airborne Regiment there. And I believe that they probably took into account and appreciated everything except this, in the sense that they are ready to pay this price. "

True, there is another point of view, which will also not particularly please Kiev. Former CIA officer Martijn Rasser:

“The concentration of Russian troops is partly to see what Brussels and Washington are going to do. One of the goals of this military action, Putin sees in assessing the determination of the West in relation to the protection of Ukraine. "

The USA is busy with another problem today.

Today, China is in first place. It is this confrontation that is now more important for Washington. Any conflict, any aggravation of relations with Russia will give Beijing a chance to conclude a military alliance with Moscow. That will make life very difficult for the American authorities.

The result?


As we can see, each of the parties has its own interest in resolving the Ukrainian issue. The interests of Europe and Russia are fundamentally different, and the interests of the United States do not in any way affect the fate of the country.

The "Russian attack" that many Ukrainians dream of will indeed mark the beginning of the end of the Ukrainian state. In this case, it will be impossible to stop the process. The divide, which so far few see, will become obvious to everyone.

It will be good if the country does not turn into another Walk-Field. It will be good if new "fathers Makhno" and "lords atamans Gritiana Tauride" do not appear in the regions. There is no more deadly tactic for Ukraine than this war ...
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 29 November 2021 15: 07
    -4
    I don't even want to comment. The author simply begins to justify the possible start of the war.
    1. mitroha
      mitroha 29 November 2021 15: 14
      +14
      How are you- "I don’t want to comment, but I can’t resist, already" pervonah "." -Joke lol
      As for me, the author expresses his opinion about the reasons for supporting Ukraine or not by different countries and political entities. Controversial opinion, but it has a right to exist
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 29 November 2021 16: 09
        +2
        As we can see, each of the parties has its own interest in resolving the Ukrainian issue. The interests of Europe and Russia differ radically, and US interests do not in any way affect the fate of the country.
        It is difficult to agree with the author that US interests allegedly do not influence the fate of Ukraine in any way. Namely.
        On the one hand, Kiev, at the behest from Washington, is definitely preparing a BACKGROUND for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to attack the Donbass!
        On the other hand, here just right to recall the plans of the US State Department regarding the future structure of Ukraine itself. And to think about what and for whom the Ukrainians are actually fighting?

        Washington’s plans for Ukraine have been known since the time of H. Clinton’s presidential election race, which she lost.
        Attack Hillary Clinton, losing to Trump in the presidential elections in the United States, in despair we will last our trump card, one might say, let her slip about the true intentions of the US State Department regarding the United States and Ukraine.... Yes, in fact, other Americans spoke about this, but not as frankly as Hillary Clinton.

        At first. H. Cleenton said that the United States is not eternal due to the fact that there is the most dangerous and terrible volcano on Earth - the Yellowstone supervolcano, which can destroy the United States, and that because of this, Americans need to look for other places for their residence in advance.
        Here it is just right to recall the idea of ​​Academician Sakharov in the event of a nuclear war with the USSR to destroy the United States with a retaliatory strike as a result of a nuclear bombardment to artificially activate this volcano.
        And secondly. That Ukraine will be for the Americans the very thing they need to move to permanent residence - a place with an excellent climate, like on the Atlantic coast of the United States.

        In this case, according to Washington's plans, Ukraine is now being cleaned out of the indigenous population of Ukraine for the resettlement of Americans from the United States to the lands of Ukraine. And this applies not only to the South-East of Ukraine, but in general to the entire territory of Ukraine.
        In this case, according to Washington's plan, there should be no more than 20 million inhabitants in AMERICAN Ukraine - and this together with the Americans (!) - should be no more than XNUMX million.
        Of the 40-45 million themselves. Ukrainians are planned to leave 4-5 million. The rest of the Ukrainians who will not be biologically "utilized" as a consumable in battles and themselves will not want to leave Ukraine, the US State Department plans to forcibly relocate to North Africa and the Middle East.
        So there is no room at all for the residence of Ukrainian NATIONALISTS of any kind in AMERICAN Ukraine! For any nationalism on the territory of the United States itself is not expected from the word AT ALL!

        Hence the question for Bandera and VSUshniki! For what and against whom are you actually fighting at all?
        In the DPR and LPR, residents are fighting for themselves and for their land in the South-East of Ukraine, which Poroshenko gave almost to a free arena for a period of 50 + 5 years with the extension to the Biden family.
        But you, Bandera, what are you fighting for? For at least temporarily satisfying to devour and someone with impunity to rape and rob? And then what will happen to you?
        Then there is no place for you in the American way in Ukraine! You are not oligarchs, you are just a consumable. You are a plebs for gentlemen from Washington.
    2. Overlock
      Overlock 29 November 2021 15: 25
      +4
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      The author simply begins to justify the possible start of the war.

      The author, for a start, draws the wrong conclusions:
      1.

      Does the EU need a country that, while maintaining it, will break the traditional economic and political structure of Europe?

      Ukraine is needed as a market, so Ukraine cannot break anything in the EU, just as Romania, Bulgaria and even the Baltic States did not break
      2.
      The USA is busy with another problem today.

      Including the Ukrainian one, otherwise they would not have concluded a charter on strategic partnership, would not have imported weapons to Ukraine and would not have put up "red flags" for Russia
      3.
      The "Russian attack" that many Ukrainians dream of will indeed mark the beginning of the end of the Ukrainian state. In this case, it will be impossible to stop the process.

      The author seems to be dreaming of war himself, but how can a sane person dream of death? The thesis about the beginning of the war as the beginning of the end of Ukraine is very doubtful, since it is not for this that Ukraine is stuffed with weapons in order to let it die. In our country, some propagandists have been burying the United States and Ukraine for 15 years, but they are still alive.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 29 November 2021 15: 31
        0
        Articles / comments often pop up here that the industrial Ukraine was ditched, only the agrarian one remained.
        So in the near future, if I am not mistaken, they predict, to put it mildly, malnutrition of the population of the earth. And here there is so much fertile black soil.
        Only for him can you start a war.
      2. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 29 November 2021 15: 36
        +4
        Ukraine is needed as a market

        Not seriously ... the purchasing power and living standards of the local population are very low compared to the EU ... Ukraine is interesting for cheap labor, black soil and a good springboard for NATO ... as an independent state, neither Washington nor Brussels is interested in it ... well even as a battering ram against Russia.
        It is vitally important for us to prevent the absorption of Ukraine by NATO ... it is a matter of our survival, and here we must oppose these plans in the most decisive way up to the destruction of Ukraine as a state.
        In general, the Ukrainians decide ... if they want to live in peace with Russia, there should be no NATO on its territory in principle.
        1. Overlock
          Overlock 29 November 2021 15: 44
          0
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          Not serious ... the purchasing power and living standards of the local population are very low compared to the EU ...

          [Center]
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 29 November 2021 15: 46
            +7
            The devil as they say in detail smile
            where are the high-tech products?
            EU quotas are not specified in the scheme.
            Banana republic.
            1. Overlock
              Overlock 29 November 2021 15: 47
              +2
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              where are the high-tech products?

              is in the EU. Why a competitor?
              1. Lech from Android.
                Lech from Android. 29 November 2021 15: 48
                +3
                Now ... this is the most important thing ... then the country is dependent on the will of officials from Brussels.
                1. Overlock
                  Overlock 29 November 2021 16: 00
                  -3
                  Quote: Lech from Android.
                  Now ... this is the most important thing ... then the country is dependent on the will of officials from Brussels.

                  Ru-stat:
                  1. Lech from Android.
                    Lech from Android. 29 November 2021 16: 04
                    +2
                    Unfortunately this graph is about nothing. what
                    In Russia, the situation is somewhat different ...
                    in addition to natural resources, our country can and does supply high-tech products in small volumes ... the nuclear industry, astronautics, IT industry, and then more. hi I don't know the exact numbers ... I'm not talking about military equipment.
                    1. Overlock
                      Overlock 29 November 2021 16: 10
                      +2
                      Quote: Lech from Android.
                      Unfortunately, this graph is about nothing.

                      Russia ranks 5th in imports and exports from the EU, which exceeds the indicators of Ukraine
                      1. Lech from Android.
                        Lech from Android. 29 November 2021 16: 11
                        -1
                        What is the breakdown of goods?
                  2. Lech from Android.
                    Lech from Android. 29 November 2021 16: 15
                    +2
                    It is necessary to be extremely careful about all Rustats and Rostats, and not to take on faith what they post ... there must be at least three independent sources for this information. hi
            2. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 29 November 2021 16: 23
              +3
              2020 Trade turnover between Ukraine and China $ 15,4 billion, Ukraine and Russia $ 7,3 billion. Europe does not really need Ukraine.
      3. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 29 November 2021 15: 50
        +4
        As a market for cheap labor, yes, Europe needs the outskirts, as a fertile land, yes, it does, and all the rest is not needed thanks, neither industry, nor factories, nor shipyards
    3. knn54
      knn54 29 November 2021 15: 32
      0
      "Energy Vampire" - no coal, no gas.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 29 November 2021 15: 37
        -1
        "... Never ask for anything from the mighty of this world! They themselves will come and give everything! ..."

        Bulgakov. "The Master and Margarita".
        Believe me, whoever comes to friends in Ukraine will try to provide it to everyone. Not free of charge, of course.
        1. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 29 November 2021 22: 47
          +6
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          "... Never ask for anything from the mighty of this world! They themselves will come and give everything! ..."

          Bulgakov. "The Master and Margarita".
          Believe me, whoever comes to friends in Ukraine will try to provide it to everyone. Not free of charge, of course.
          Yes, we believe, we believe, because we ourselves are in the know. After all, in 1654 Russia extended a helping hand to B. Khmelnitsky. So what? They defended, equipped, warmed, and how it happened, in gratitude Ukraine shit around the entire perimeter and 360 years of "friendship" down the drain. A new druzhban was brought in in the person of the United States, which "gave everything" to you, not gratuitously, of course, since now five generations of Ukrainians will be paying off their debts.
    4. Anachoret
      Anachoret 29 November 2021 15: 47
      +2
      And some of the author's phrases cause
      hysterical laughter)
      For example, the words about "the development of big Ukraine")) what kind of development of credit zombies can we talk about? Interest payments on foreign loans have long exceeded the possibilities of Ukraine in terms of generating income)) there is no longer any question of repaying the body of loans) new loans are given for even greater enslavement of the country)
      The phrase that Russia needs Ukraine as an independent and strong state is even more nonsense)
      Ukraine is a failed state and its disintegration is already a matter of months, not even years)
      It's just that when everything flies in different directions, Russia does not need to yawn and grab the maximum) even looking at Volyn and Bukovina, not counting the center and southeast of Ukraine)
    5. gurzuf
      gurzuf 30 November 2021 14: 27
      0
      Who will start?
  2. Glagol1
    Glagol1 29 November 2021 15: 13
    +7
    Both striped and Brussels will protect Ukraine from decay in every possible way. It is obvious. Such a sledgehammer next to Russia, just a dream. The disintegration of the 404 country into parts is only beneficial to us, we will completely return Donbass, Kharkov, and most likely the entire southern belt. The Azov Sea will become internal. Then, when this happens, 5 more countries can come to the feast: RB (southern Polesie), Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. But they may not arrive unless they receive an appraisal from the doyenne. And we don’t need an OK, we give ourselves an OK.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 29 November 2021 15: 23
      +5
      Quote: Glagol1
      It is obvious. Such a sledgehammer next to Russia, just a dream.

      It is obvious that the idea of ​​neo-Nazism in Ukraine has given a feeble sprout. The West's dream was and remains - to put a Ukrainian yoke on Russia in order to wear down the Russian economy completely.
      The disintegration of Ukraine is a foregone conclusion. The country is on the eve of a big divide. Only one question will arise - who needs a used 30-year-old lady of an incomprehensible appearance as a bride.
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 29 November 2021 17: 51
        +1
        Generations of Nazis have been growing for 8 years now.
        1. expert
          expert 29 November 2021 19: 41
          +1
          The Nazis have been raised since the 90s and, unfortunately, very successfully.
    2. Overlock
      Overlock 29 November 2021 15: 27
      -5
      Quote: Glagol1
      Such a sledgehammer next to Russia, just a dream.

      This is why she will live
      Quote: Glagol1
      The disintegration of the 404 country into parts is only beneficial to us, we will completely return Donbass, Kharkov, and most likely the entire southern belt.

      What a decay! Funny! Ask if the population of the regions you named wants to go to Russia?
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 29 November 2021 15: 53
        0
        Who said that these regions should be annexed to us ??
    3. Glagol1
      Glagol1 29 November 2021 15: 29
      +3
      This is what I thought about in relation to Slovakia and Hungary - this is Uzhgorod, and there are many Rusyns. Another aspect of this kaleidoscope.
  3. HAM
    HAM 29 November 2021 15: 13
    +5
    And most importantly: it seems that the Ukrainians themselves do not need Ukraine ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 29 November 2021 16: 58
      -1
      In which case, in addition to Russia, Ukraine has someone to share the same Poland and Hungary will not stand aside, and yes, the entire population of the territory they occupy will agree to join the EU and become citizens of Hungary and Poland, this is the Western part of Ukraine and Eastern Russia will take to profit there is something our elite will simply squeeze everything out of hundreds of billions of dollars in the resources of enterprises and property of the billionaires.
  4. rocket757
    rocket757 29 November 2021 15: 13
    +3
    There are too many logics and all are different ... but isn't there a lot for one side?
  5. Gardener91
    Gardener91 29 November 2021 15: 21
    -1
    Unlike Europe's “economic” approach, Ukraine was politically important for the United States. As a territory that will constantly irritate Russia. A sort of state hemorrhoids for Russians. Well, probably also because the united states no longer have a place in the world where they can defend "democracy".
  6. prior
    prior 29 November 2021 15: 21
    0
    It is quite obvious that if Ukraine goes to war, it will lose the war.
    This means that statehood will also lose.
    Divide it after that for sure, do not go to the grandmother.
    But how they will divide, there are nuances here.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 29 November 2021 15: 48
      0
      Quote: prior
      But how they will divide, there are nuances here.

      Naturally - "prickly".
  7. Ros 56
    Ros 56 29 November 2021 15: 21
    +11
    Well, about the brothers, the author apparently got excited. There are different brothers, sometimes they live on knives, apparently we have the same case. Banderostan, as a state, must be buried forever and divided according to the principle - smart to us, and Bandera to lyakham. Those will find a common language with them, they have been breathing unevenly towards them for a long time after the Volyn massacre.
    And we have no Ukraine, this word causes an inadequate reaction from some. Southwestern District of the Russian Federation and, to begin with, complete debanderization.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 29 November 2021 15: 46
      +1
      Quote: Ros 56
      Those will find a common language with them, they have been breathing unevenly towards them for a long time after the Volyn massacre.

      They don't even breathe, but they sharpen the knife.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 29 November 2021 15: 48
        -2
        Well, this is their smut, and we, like that monkey from the hill, will watch. wassat
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 29 November 2021 16: 26
          0
          Quote: Ros 56
          Well, this is their smut, and we, like that monkey from the hill, will watch.

          Better both old and young bulls when the cows come to the watering hole.
      2. Astronomy
        Astronomy 29 November 2021 20: 44
        -1
        Quote: tihonmarine
        They don't even breathe, but they sharpen the knife.

        if we discuss the partition of Germany in German on an hourly basis, then the Germans will begin not only to worry, but also to prepare.
        On runet every day Ukraine
        1-bury
        2-freeze
        3-divide
        And the war with her is discussed even more often. With details, shelling, aviation and TNW.
        Moreover, the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the territory of the territory of Ukraine recognized by the Russian Federation are presented as an excuse. (Part of Donbass)
        Zombifying the brains of the need for war.
        Isn't there a crime in this - propaganda of war and all that?
    2. expert
      expert 29 November 2021 19: 51
      +1
      About brothers and non-brothers ...
      At least, today's 20-25 year olds perceive Russia as an absolute enemy in all its guises. They absorbed this through kindergartens and schools with "Mama Farion's milk".
      To this you can add a huge number of 40+, happily betraying and Ukrainizing themselves.
      A lost power, which is a pity.
      1. Astronomy
        Astronomy 29 November 2021 20: 51
        -5
        Quote: Fachmann
        with "Mama Farion's milk".

        Farion is unpopular even in her small homeland. She doesn't even respect Lviv residents in her hatred (Russian language day in Lviv, for example)
        Farion has nothing to do with it. The loyalty of Russian and Russian-speaking Ukrainians was sacrificed by the Kremlin for the sake of Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
        So more than 30 million loyal or neutral citizens of the largest Russian-speaking country and the largest neighbor were deliberately transferred to the "enemies" section by actions to strengthen the rating.
        No nationalists / Farion / Poroshenko and Zelenskiy have done more than the Kremlin did. They had no chance ... with such a Kremlin they have great chances. The impression is that they are working together on separation.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  8. KSVK
    KSVK 29 November 2021 15: 27
    -1
    It is easy to instill in a person that he is living badly because he is struggling with someone there. But to instill in the stomach that it is full and do not want to eat is much more difficult.

    Ordinary citizens of this state almost every month are faced with new inventions of the authorities to worsen their lives. This is the lack of jobs in cities, the inability to sell crops to farmers, the lack of electricity, heat, etc., etc., etc.

    So why do we need such a country?


    How well said. Only for some reason I get the feeling that the author is writing about Russia. It turned out especially well about “inventions of power”. Only here is one clarification: we do not need a country, but the power that has brought the country to such a state.
  9. From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 29 November 2021 15: 32
    0
    A long time ago, when only Ukrainians lived on Earth, there was no winter on Earth at all. The Ukrainians, as always, did nothing, only sang, danced, and pooped each other on the porch. Then the Ukrainians had neighbors and the Ukrainians began to shit on the porch neighbors.
    Singing, dancing, and pooping among the Ukrainians can be summed up in one word - "potsyuvat".
  10. Kittymoore
    Kittymoore 29 November 2021 15: 36
    +1
    The result?


    No idea. Since this "article" is an incoherent stream of delirium and fortune-telling by the stars.
  11. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 29 November 2021 15: 42
    +2
    I think it is now clear why the Europeans are pumping up our southern neighbor with weapons and money.

    History goes in a circle - in 1933, "mad Alik" came to power, and not even a purebred Austrian, but the right people came. And just as now the ruin is stuffed with money and weapons, so the money and resources went to the Third Reich (the Germans themselves made weapons better than others).
  12. gridasov
    gridasov 29 November 2021 15: 45
    +3
    Even on only one issue of the withdrawal of human labor resources from Ukraine, it can be said that the situation is beneficial to Russia and then to Poland and others. Therefore, we can again congratulate the Russian analytical institutes on the Victory. More than a million people left the DPR and LPR alone. And after all, everyone knows that America has progressed precisely on the use of human potential from all over the world, creating attractive conditions for life and development.
  13. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 29 November 2021 15: 48
    +2
    The West is historically interested in a "cordon sanitaire" between itself and us, and Ukraine is another "brick" in the wall of this cordon. Now the EU lives well and peacefully, it is not interested in driving with us outside the borders of mutually beneficial economically projects, moreover, they have a rather palpable generational phobia of Russians - at times for example. wars, revolutions, World War II and the Iron Curtain, finally the dashing 90s and the "Russian mafia". Figuratively speaking, they are calmer when we are beyond the distance of an outstretched leg from their fiefdom. This distance is generally provided by the Sankordon from the "Eastern European states", but if Ukraine joins it, I do not think that they will be against it. This attitude is SO POSSIBLE to change in the short to medium term and without major changes in ourselves. While various rotten rumors (justified or unfounded) with poisoning, murders, the development of another super-deadly Vanderwaffe, some kind of nasty stupid paid trolls or hackers, mega-bribes for European officials, periodically emerging resonant processes in the ECHR will not be found around our country The EU has a common language, they will see us as dumb, precocious barbarians, as in the 90s, ready to overwhelm everything with their dirty bobol, kill, bribe, defame, etc. Soul, sir!
    Accordingly, it is not important within this line whether the EU itself needs Ukraine or is unnecessary, objectively they are interested in Ukraine that is opposite to us (within moderate borders, of course). For them, this solves at least two tasks - we stay away from the EU borders, we are deprived of the Ukrainian potential as part of our economy. At the moment, circumstances are developing in such a way that the interests of a significant part of Ukrainian society, the EU, the United States, individual European states (such as Poland) and even Turkey converged on the direction of Ukraine's disengagement from us. Conceptually, for NATO, Ukraine's falling out of our "security belt" is also very good, although they themselves will not rush to Ukraine, for them it is +1 line of "sticky defense". At the moment, we have nothing to oppose this, except for brute force, a bobble, and already an orderly rumble about "freedom-equality-brotherhood". What kind of "brotherhood" is there, I think a significant part of Ukrainians have caught in 7 years of "analytical" programs, which are so fond of broadcasting on all channels. Thanks again to our mediocre information policy, because creating a well-thought-out line is much more difficult than banning sites with a pirate movie!
    In this historical period, our cards in relation to Ukraine are bad and even worse. We will not be able to resolve this issue - it is better to freeze it, at the same time making our "red lines" as specific as possible and outlining a more intelligible policy towards the LPNR, tied to the time and effectiveness of the execution of Minsk. It is necessary to curtail the anti-Ukrainian propaganda and stop broadcasting about the collapse of this state - for 7 years I have been hearing this nonsense, and there is no collapse, as it never happened. Now we are like a boy who constantly trolls the villagers with wolves.
    We will need to closely tackle the Ukrainian issue when and if we have a planned economic and political upsurge beyond the boundaries of statistical error. Until this moment, it is not worth throwing coals into the furnace of the Ukrainian propagandists, outside of Minsk we should be sneezing into Ukraine and what is happening there.
    1. Astronomy
      Astronomy 29 November 2021 21: 00
      0
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      We will not be able to resolve this issue - it is better to freeze it, at the same time making our "red lines" as specific as possible and outlining a more intelligible policy towards the LPNR, tied to the time and effectiveness of the execution of Minsk.

      watching PMR
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      It is necessary to curtail the anti-Ukrainian propaganda and stop broadcasting about the collapse of this state - for 7 years I have been hearing this nonsense, and there is no collapse, as it never happened. Now we are like a boy who constantly trolls the villagers with wolves.

      Most likely this is already a scrap. That is, what the mood is based on (and what the Ukrainians have there is worse in Ukraine). If you cancel this, you need to create a new clip. And this is time / money. And here you can compose whatever you want. Myths and moods have already been formed.
      In addition, all the threats are not actually even Ukraine. And the EU and the US. This is their cow and they milk it. Russia can only threaten to "die this cow." And this will already be losses.
      This is how they continue to play.
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      We will need to closely tackle the Ukrainian issue when and if we have a planned economic and political upsurge beyond the boundaries of statistical error. Until this moment, it is not worth throwing coals into the furnace of the Ukrainian propagandists, outside of Minsk we should be sneezing into Ukraine and what is happening there.

      here I agree completely. Initially, the goal is to improve the well-being of the country for all citizens. There will be Norwegian / German standards ... so there not only Ukraine will want economic and other ties, but many others.
      The trouble is that there is money for propaganda about Ukraine. But not for welfare. It is more expensive. Cheaper TVs than filling everyone's fridges.
      Banal economy.
  14. zenion
    zenion 29 November 2021 16: 09
    +3
    Fight Ukraine? Give her a reason to surrender and feed her. And she, even in captivity, will claim that although they lost, but in fact they won it and smash the Russian economy forcing Ukraine to feed, they say, they have not yet begun guerrilla actions, smashing restaurants and stealing food and fishnet panties, but this is ahead, they They'll probably take it with geese. The Panikovsky tribe.
    1. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 30 November 2021 20: 54
      0
      Feeding is optional.
  15. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 29 November 2021 16: 14
    +5
    War is not needed by anyone, there is a game on the nerves, from whom they will surrender .. It is possible that under the concept of "war with Russia", the preparation for the liquidation of the Donetsk republics is hidden. It is not profitable to talk about it directly, as it would be an open violation of the Minsk agreements and other agreements, but you want to save your face. Therefore, the cry: "The Russians are coming!"
  16. igorra
    igorra 29 November 2021 16: 29
    0
    I am for. By yourself, all by yourself. For the Uryapatriots, a rifle in the teeth and in the trenches, whatever happens as always - you scream in the rear about Russian brotherhood and duty, and our sons are dying. And secondly - the houses of affairs are above the roof. If only ghasts from Central Asia are sent to Ukraine for work.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 29 November 2021 17: 01
      -1
      In Ukraine, there is someone to work locally.
      1. Astronomy
        Astronomy 29 November 2021 21: 07
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        there is someone to work on the ground.

        according to the press (and this is another question)
        then there is a deficit at all levels. A good employee is already hard to find.
        The era of cheap labor is over.
        Demographics, open borders and labor shortages in neighbors (with higher living standards). The increase in wages is not for nothing.
        Is it that agriculture will give a little during modernization (there is 17%, which is a lot, in the USA there is 1,2%)
        and so there are no reserves. Labor has become more expensive. And it rises in price.
  17. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 29 November 2021 19: 13
    0
    > Let without part of the territories (and as a result, western Ukraine, most likely, will be returned to those from whom these lands were taken away in 1945), but a large and strong state.

    And what about our part of the territories, all the areas are known, as well as who they were donated by.
    About a large and strong state of Ukraine, I don't even know, in my opinion an unrealistic and bad idea.

    > As we can see, each of the parties has its own interest in resolving the Ukrainian issue.

    In my opinion, the issue is not being resolved, but is suspended for an indefinite future.
    1. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 30 November 2021 20: 55
      0
      Territory and population are not necessarily overlapping concepts.
      1. Victor Tsenin
        Victor Tsenin 1 December 2021 17: 43
        0
        In this case, the Russian lands with the Russian-speaking population nevertheless rather coincide.
  18. WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 29 November 2021 19: 46
    +5
    The author, IMHO, you are wrong on the following points:
    Ukraine was and remains a territory inhabited by a fraternal people. And not in the figurative, but in the most direct sense of the word.

    I strongly disagree. Today, in the head of the average Russian man in the street, Ukraine occupies a cross between "Dom-2" and a long-running gangster series, which is already tired of the order. I believe that, let's say, the "brotherhood" of peoples is not transmitted genetically, but the essence is the result of joint creative (!) Activities that require real investment of effort, money, and time. Joint overcoming of difficulties, the struggle for a dream-life, a really visible arrangement of today's present for a better future, the struggle against a common enemy - these are the ingredients, that brew boiled over the fire of the correct ideology, which feeds the fraternal feelings of the culturally alien masses of the people. But as soon as you start dividing / cutting / pulling apart, especially in the conditions of a general deficit of everything, we get a collapse, because cultural dissimilarity immediately divides people into "ours and others."
    Since the 80s of the last century, fraternal Ukrainian / Belarusian / Serbian / Bulgarian / Kazakh, etc. etc. peoples have existed and exist either in the heads of incorrigible idealists, or in the language of notorious demagogues. And so it is not clear which is worse.

    A country where, instead of forming a single nation, they are trying to forcibly Ukrainianize other peoples.

    So this is the formation of a single nation. Not a melting pot, but real millstones that will grind people, not in the first, so in the second generation. This is a normal plan, which under certain conditions can "shoot". By the way, here's an example for you - the Balts. As far as I remember, somewhere in the mid-90s there seemed to be a lot of screams about the infringement of the Russian language on the territory of aggressive political Karls. So what? But nothing! The children of those who were outraged by the restriction of the Russian language, learned and, knowing English, one of the Baltic languages ​​and "to a heap" of Russian, fled all over Europe, because their parents did not rush to Russia, all such Russian-speaking, and clenched their teeth began to learn the local languages ​​and to obtain local citizenship with an obvious aim, because they understood perfectly well that in the future Europe will give their children much more than my country. So the Ukrainian leadership is just trying to create a single nation, as best it can and as it can, waving the possibility of "entry" into Europe before the cramming inhabitants. Another thing is whether they will be in time, because the Balts were "already", and Ukraine only "still".

    From the point of view of our geopolitical interests, it is important for us to preserve Ukraine as a big state!

    I will not say "for geopolitics", but as a sofa expert, it seems to me that it is better to have a couple of small, weak but more friendly-minded states near the borders than one large, integral and hostile one. The people of Ukraine deliberately, they have a democracy (!), Have chosen their own path to aggressive alienation from my country, and long before the events of 2014, which means that sooner or later you will have to pay for everything, and if it comes to a hot phase, then we do not need a single state of Ukraine from the word "absolutely".

    However, I would like to note that such an excellent brainwashing is going on from our side, winding up nerves, clattering teeth, wiggling hands, rolling hats to the accompaniment of warlike cries, and this cannot but be alarming.
    And if our authorities really allow a hot phase, in the hope of a "small victorious" one, then, taking into account the mood of the people, at the slightest "jamb", all our statehood with the Radiant Guarantor at the head can simply go downhill.
    I think so.
  19. Astronomy
    Astronomy 29 November 2021 20: 37
    +2
    I thought that the authors of the Military Review did not post fakes
    Remember the bomber over the American ship in the Black Sea, after the flight of which all control systems simply died.

    or the sect of witnesses Su 24 / Khibin includes the author-Stave? Or is this fake profitable for him?
    Before that, it was already clear the authorship (of the Kharaluzhny Lavra and the like)
    but after seeing this phrase it immediately became clear ...
    the significance of the article has become negligible. If the author begins to use the fake-like fact, which has long been debunked on VO, then where next ??? I thought the sect was dead ...
  20. hermit
    hermit 29 November 2021 23: 14
    -1
    Europe needs Ukraine as a market for goods and a source of cheap labor. The United States needs Ukraine to put pressure on Russia. Ukraine in its current state suits Russia quite well. It does not pose a military threat, and it makes no sense to seize the Ukrainian market, since Russia is a raw material appendage of the West.
  21. Maks1995
    Maks1995 30 November 2021 12: 27
    0
    The media are silvery, I suppose.
    At the beginning of the year, every iron was broadcasting that the Ukrainians would attack.
    now every iron - that Russia has pulled up troops, purely out of peacefulness, and just about "" The attack of Russia, which many Ukrainians dream of. "

    And if zilch, all together will pretend that they never wrote anything?
  22. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 30 November 2021 18: 10
    0
    "who needs"
    "who does not need"
    Generally, nobody needs her. Let them survive as they want. "nezalEzhno and independent" They dreamed about it so much.
  23. victor_47
    victor_47 30 November 2021 19: 38
    0
    Why is Donbass Russian? But because not a single self-respecting ukrainian will climb into the mine! Bad nema! Well, that's just a joke ... By blood, ask Professor Klyosov, Russians and Ukrainians are one people. According to the mentality, the entire southeast and, for the most part, the center are Russians, with the Russian language and culture (80% of the entire population of Ukraine, according to a 2012 American survey regarding the preference for the language of communication). All industry and energy in Ukraine is based on Russian-language documentation. A real, not propagandistic, rejection of the Russian language is a disaster for almost the entire Ukrainian industry. In Ukraine, it is not so much a fraternal people as a part of the Russian people. The true revival of Russia is impossible without the unification of Russians in one state, without unification, including with Ukraine. This should be the long-term goal of our public policy. And no war to the delight of the enemies of the Russian people!
  24. Fisherman
    Fisherman 1 December 2021 10: 54
    -3
    You can argue as much as you like, but the liberation of the Russian territory called Ukraine and the return of the people to Russia will be UNCONDITIONAL. The only question is when ... when the GDP will be ready to take over the management of these territories ... a management team is needed, and this is for 30 million additional citizens, not a joke! You can sigh as much as you like about the mentality, but if they didn't rock the boat under the clown, then they will dance with joy under Putin!
  25. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 4 December 2021 07: 47
    -1
    In my opinion, the EU only needs the fertile lands of Ukraine. Population- will be turned (already turned) into slaves. The psychology of the current citizens of Ukraine is slave. The main thing is to survive. The Goebbels case is alive and well.