Military Review

The last wars of the Yuan Empire

83

Battle of Bach Dang River 1288 Vietnamese Museum stories... Hochemin. Vietnam.


Yuan attacks Crushes


Daviet clearly understood that their refusal to let the Sino-Mongolian troops pass would not remain without consequences. During 1283-1284. they prepared for the defense, armed the militia. Considering the mortal danger to the country, the king gathered not just a meeting of heads of clans, but a meeting of all tribes, at which it was decided to fight.

A considerable number of Han emigrants from the Southern Song Dynasty empire accumulated in Daviet. They formed a separate army under the leadership of "General" (jiangjun) Zhao Zhong. The Daviet people also sent help to the Cham during their struggle with the Mongols. Sagatu, realizing how difficult it is to move troops over such long distances, proposed creating a bridgehead against Champa in Daviet and providing the invading army at the expense of the Vietnamese.

In 1285, the fleet of the Yuan Empire, which was heading for Champu, approached the shores of Daviet for the landing of troops, but on the coast it was awaited by the fortifications and the army of the kingdom. And the fleet with the troops of Sagatu went to Champa. At the same time, the Mongols moved the army to the rear of the troops defending the border coast on dry land, it was commanded by the son of the Emperor Yuan, Tugan (Togkhan). The defending troops, under threat of encirclement, retreated into the interior of the country, their capital was captured by the Mongol-Chinese troops. The Chinese defeated the Daviet fleet.


Yuan. Junk. Ancient Chinese drawing.

The commander Chan-hing-Dao was able to save the army, while the invaders scattered their forces. The Vieta pursued a policy of scorched earth, under pain of death, the government demanded evacuation from the communities, while it was necessary to destroy buildings. Rafts were launched along the rivers with the hanged, those who disobeyed the king. The war took the form of a "people's" war.

Tugan's troops advanced to Champa, from there Sagatu's troops marched towards him. The armies were starving, and then an epidemic began, the companion of all wars, associated with the accumulation of huge masses of people. Actually, the Mongols, who in all wars suffered from the heat, where there were such climatic conditions, suffered in this campaign.

In the delta of the Red River, the armies of Tugan, Sagatu, Li Heng and Li Guan and the fleet of Sam Omar were supposed to unite, but the commander Chiang-hing-Dao thwarted these plans, constantly attacking enemies, especially the troops of emigrants from Song distinguished themselves in battles.

During the retreat of the Yuan to the border, the Vieta killed the commanders Sagata, Li Heng and Li Guang, only Khubilai's son and a small number of troops escaped.

The defeat of the expedition infuriated the emperor, who postponed the invasion of Japan in order to focus on the Viet: at the council of all heads of the districts, it was decided to march to the southern countries, and 300 ships were built on the Yangtze. But for the campaign, the Mongol-Chinese army was assembled from only three southern provinces.

500 ships carried food, they were commanded by the Chinese Zhang Wenhu, the vanguard was commanded by Omar. The commander was again Tugan (Togkhan). In the winter of 1287-1288. Yuan's troops moved from Guangxi to the border by two roads. They were approaching Vankiep, and Omar, leaving the cargo fleet unprotected, rushed along the river. Batdang to help Tugan.
Now the Vieta were victorious at sea, blocking the Chinese fleet. To break free, Zhang Wenhu had to throw cargo into the sea, thereby depriving his army of food. He went to Hanan.

The Vieta sent prisoners to Tugan in order to demoralize the Yuan. But Tugan, in the style of "the best defense is an attack," decided to quickly take the capital. Commander Abachi went to him with battles from Yunnan. Having united, the troops crossed the Red River and took the capital Thanglaung by storm. The Vieta destroyed all the food in the vicinity of the capital, Omar's attempt to bring food failed, he returned to Thanglaung, and Khubilai went to Vankiep. From here he (in the classic Mongol style) raided the surrounding area.

The Vieta decided to prepare a "surprise" for fleet Omar. They already did this to the Chinese invaders. The Vieta skillfully "led" Omar to a tributary of the Batdanga (Bach Dang) river.

The ships ran aground or stumbled upon sharpened tree trunks specially dug into the bottom. Five hundred ships of the fleet and Omar himself with several Chinese commanders went to the Vieta. Chan-hing-Dao commanded the battle and personally fought the enemy. Tugan, on the eve of the tropical heat, in a situation of famine and epidemic, on the advice of the commanders decided to retreat from Daviet, but this retreat turned into a flight. Regular troops and partisans pursued the Mongols and Chinese on the heels, and led enemies into ambushes and traps. During the retreat, Abachi, a promising Mongolian commander, also died. The Vietnamese sent Omar and Fang Ji to Yuan, but they drowned along the way.

Daviet's victory influenced the situation throughout Southeast Asia, where the countries threatened by the Mongols realized the opportunity to successfully resist them.


Procession in honor of the victories of the Vietnamese over the northern invaders on the river. Batdang at Chan Hung Dao Temple. Contemporary photo. Quang Ninh province. Vietnam.

Viet's victories came at a time when the Yuan was at war with the rebellious nyons in the north of the empire. This is the first thing.

Secondly, Vietnamese society was at the stage of the tribal community, and the "nationwide war" is a form of struggle of all clans against the invaders. The Mongol-Chinese army clashed with the army-people who fought in their native places.

It was also important that the Vieta were practically a monolithic society, and most of the countries that the Mongols attacked had ethnic contradictions. The high fighting qualities of the Mongols here remained at their best, but victory in the war, even in ancient times, was not limited solely to them.

The Yuan held the Daviet in constant tension for six years, after which the empire abandoned its military claims.

Countries of the south seas


The yuan quickly borrowed the policy of the Han states with respect to the state formations of Indochina and the South Seas, on the islands of the Malay-Indonesian archipelago, especially since it got into her hands a reliable instrument for promoting such a policy - the fleet. A large number of Muslim merchants who lived on the islands became natural allies of the Mongols, in whose ranks there were many Samu, immigrants from Central and Western Asia. Of course, the Mongols and ethnic contradictions in this region have traditionally used it.

The last wars of the Yuan Empire
Yuan Empire campaign map. Tatar-Mongols in Asia and Europe. M., 1977.

And the wealth of these states attracted not only merchants. Marco Polo, who, of course, liked to greatly embellish his narrative, wrote about Java:

“That is the largest island in the world, more than three thousand miles around; the great king owns it; idolaters live here and do not pay tribute to anyone in the light of tribute. The island is very large.
They have pepper, nutmegs, spices, galangal, cubeba, cloves and all kinds of expensive spices that are in the world. Many ships and merchants come here, buy goods here and make money. There is so much wealth here that no one in the world can count or describe. "

In 1281 the Muslims Suleiman and Shams ud-din were sent to Sumatra as ambassadors. Sultan Sandura Malik As-Saleh gave them a warm welcome, welcomed the Mongols and the "empire" of Singasari (Java), and their subordinate Malaya. But in Java, King Kertanagar, having learned about the defeat of the Yuan in Vietnam, branded the ambassadors for their impudent speeches.

But, as you know, the new empire in China was not enough. The campaign, which began against Champa, was to end with the capture of the Khmer "empire" of Cambujatesh and the countries of the South Seas.

After the departure of the Mongol-Chinese troops from Daviet, Khubilai began preparations for a sea campaign to the south, but the campaign took place after his death. In his instruction it was said that the army

"Brings the enlightened word to the army and the people of Java."

At the end of 1292, the new emperor Oljeytu-Timur sent about 1 ships and vessels and 000 thousand soldiers to the south.

Sailors and warriors were recruited from among the Han people of the former Song Empire. Despite the fact that the campaign was sea, it was led by the Mongol Shi Bi, Semu, the Uighur Ikhmish commanded the landing, and the Chinese Gao Xi commanded the sailors.

In February 1293, the fleet began to seize: first they took the island of Belitung (modern Indonesia), followed by Bali. In March, the Yuan landed at the city of Tuman in Java. To the delight of the Mongols, strife began in Java, the enemy of the Mongols, King Kertanagar, was killed. As a result, his son-in-law, Prince Vijaya, ascended the throne, but he was defeated by the usurper and turned to the Mongols. They were ready to help, provided that the prince would give a solemn welcome to the soldiers of the Yuan Empire, to which he agreed.

And the usurper, the prince from Kediri, gathered a huge army, which met with the landing on the Brantas River in April 1293. The battle lasted a whole day, but the Mongol-Chinese army won. The usurper Jayakatvan, having received an offer to surrender on honorable terms, agreed, and returned to his place in Kedir. And Vijaya soon destroyed a detachment of Mongols of 200 soldiers and began a fight with the Yuan, who could not oppose anything to the guerrilla war. Warriors of Java set up ambushes in mountain gorges, attacked carts on the roads, while avoiding large clashes.

Gradually, the Yuan troops were forced to liberate the occupied territories, retreating to the camps that covered the ships. During the retreat, the Chinese rearguard was ambushed, and 3 thousand soldiers were killed. Realizing the futility of the landing operations, at such a great distance from the supply and resource bases, the military council decided to return to China. On May 31, 1293, the Yuan warriors left Java. During the military expedition, the captured trophies were extremely meager.

If the Yuan Empire continued to dominate the countries of Southeast Asia, then military campaigns against these countries were terminated.

Huge efforts did not correspond to the results, it is one thing to conquer the Sun or Khorezm, and another thing - Daviet. Moreover, the acquaintance of the most understanding of the Mongol nobility with the system of exploitation on the territory of sedentary states in China promised greater benefits than long, tedious campaigns.

Despite them, the "ruling people" were not rich. Some Mongols at this time, out of poverty, sold their children into slavery. Khubilai, of course, made an effort, like a great khan, to support his warriors. "Yuan Shi" reports a lot about this, for example, under 1289:

"On the day of geng-chen, there was a poor harvest in the military settlements of the six guards, and Khubilai gave the 3000 soldiers from these settlements to take 60 days to rest."

But that energy, that connection, which undoubtedly existed between Genghis Khan and the Mongols, as a warrior-people, under the influence of external conditions, like all great nomadic tribes in such a situation, was severed.

Japan


Japan, as a country that had contacts with Korea and the Song Dynasty, also fell into the zone of attention of the new empire.

As Marco Polo wrote about Japan:

“Gold, I tell you, they have a great abundance: there is a lot of it here, and they don’t take it from here ...
There is an abundance of pearls here; it is pink and very beautiful, round, large; he is expensive, like white. They also have other precious stones. A rich island, and you can't list its riches. "

The Mongolian Great Khan already had claims to Japan.

First, Japanese merchants supplied the Sung people until the last day of the Chinese empire.

Secondly, the Koreans, who became Yuan subjects, from the 20s of the XIII century. were attacked by Japanese wako pirates from the islands of Iki, Kyushu and Tsushima. In 1263 Khubilai punished the pirates and stopped their attacks. He also decided that Japan could submit to the Yuan dynasty empire without a war: he sent an ambassador, accompanied by Koreans in contact with the Mongols.

Emperor Kameyama, like other heads of state, clearly understood what the Mongol threat was, and he delayed the return of ambassadors. Van Korey even wrote to him with a request to return the ambassadors, which he did. But the emperor was not the real ruler of the country, performing decorative functions, which in Japan also did not contribute to a quick solution of matters, since all issues had to be coordinated with the bakufu, which bore the title of "shogun", Hojo Tokimune.

Khubilai, realizing that the Japanese were delaying their response, began preparations for the campaign, while he sent another embassy accompanied by the Koreans in 1271 and 1272, the Koreans secretly warned the Japanese about preparations for the invasion.

Ambassador Zhao Liangpi conveyed an ultimatum to the Japanese emperor, and upon his return made a report to Khubilai about Japan, the people and customs of the country. The Japanese clearly understood that there would be an invasion, but, one might say, they did not prepare for it.

The answer here is always simple, it is not always possible to prepare for everything, not always your capabilities and resources allow you to prepare for everything in advance.

At the same time, the Mongols were successful in the fight against the Song and were able to allocate small forces for a campaign on the Japanese islands.

In 1274, the Mongol-Korean fleet moved to the islands of Japan, the fleet consisted of 300 ships and 400-500 small ships. The expedition was headed by the Mongols: the Hindu, the Naimans Nanjiatai and Kudukas. The operation was mainly attended by Mongols and Turks.


Mongolian horseman. End of XIII-XIV centuries. Reconstruction by M.V. Gorelik

All of them were battle-tested warriors who crossed more than one great river of Eurasia, but they did not have to take part in a sea campaign. The Mongols also brought with them the masters of throwing machines and even "bombs" for them, tepao, iron powder shells.

Returning to the preparation for war, it must be said that the Japanese samurai, whom many researchers consider, according to the European scheme, to the early feudal knights, did not possess either combat experience or tactical skills inherent in the Mongols.

If the samurai fought according to certain rules, through which it was shameful to cross, then the Mongols, the people of war, resorted to any actions that could lead them to victory in the battle, no ceremonies, codes, written regulations and instructions or customs constrained them in this ... Except for predictions and fortune-telling.

Samurai, who fought exclusively in duels, with the help of squires, had no idea about the tactics, flanking attacks and deceitful flight that the Mongols constantly used.

The islands of Tsushima and Iki were captured on the move, but on about. Kyushu landing Yuan clashed with Japanese troops, the Mongols used their entire arsenal against the samurai, including tepao, shocking the samurai. A battle began known as the Battle of Bunei. The onset of night saved them from defeat, and then the hurricane and storm destroyed half of the landing, and the Mongols retreated. This was, from the point of view of the Japanese, not accidental, but divine intervention.


Takezaki Suenaga. XIII century Tepao application.

Khubilai, hoping that the invasion frightened the Japanese, sent a new embassy in 1275, which was demonstratively executed by the Japanese. And the "shogun" Hojo Tokimune began to build fortifications along the entire coast of the country. He built a stone wall and created mobile detachments, which were to move quickly towards the landing sites of the Mongols. He again executed the Yuan embassy in 1279.

Khubilai appointed Hundu as commander, and the Chinese Fang Wenhu and the Korean Hon Tagu led the invasion. Fang Wenhu commanded the fleet, in addition to the Mongols and the Chinese, the Korean government provided an army of 10 and sailors. Much time was spent on equipping the army with throwing equipment: crossbows and ballistae were installed on ships. In total, according to sources, there were more than 100 thousand soldiers in the invasion army, the main force in it were the Chinese.

In 1281, the invasion army, consisting of two fleets, sailed from China and North. Korea with the aim of uniting at Iki Island. Marco Polo wrote that rivalry began between the commanders.

A fleet from Korea occupied Iki; during the capture, a Japanese commander died from a tepao explosion. Then the Korean fleet landed troops in the north of Kyushu, north of the wall erected by Hojo Tokimune. A fleet from China landed troops in the south of Kyushu, which launched an offensive to the north. A two-month battle began for the walls on the coast, the Yuan troops, superior to the Japanese, both in technology and tactics, went to victory, the Japanese samurai fought with their last strength. But a divine wind intervened in the matter, a hurricane typical of these places hit the coast, the attempt of Korean sailors to save people on ships was unsuccessful, the storm sank the ships:

“Once a strong wind blew from the north; and here began to tell the army that it was necessary to leave, otherwise all the ships would be broken; boarded ships and went to sea; not even four miles sailed when they were nailed to a small island; those who did not have time to land escaped, while others perished. "

Marco Polo wrote that the soldiers abandoned to their fate broke through to the Japanese city and fought there surrounded, but, realizing the hopelessness of the struggle, surrendered. However, this information is not confirmed by other sources.

In 1283, a new campaign began to be planned in Beijing, and Zhang Lin, a master who knew how to make "Muslim" stone throwers, arrived in Korea. But it was postponed several times. It must be understood that during this period there was no longer a single vision of the expansionist policy. If even 80 years ago it was a unified system aimed exclusively at war, then the Mongols at that time no longer had such unanimity. Part of the Mongol nobility, finding themselves in more comfortable conditions of sedentary states, already during this period preferred stable incomes from the exploitation of the Chinese population, rather than risky military ventures.

However, the initiators of the campaigns against Japan were not only the Mongols, but also the Chinese in the service of the new empire.

It is significant that after the death of the first emperor of the Yuan dynasty of the Mongol Kubilai in 1294, the military expansion of the Yuan came to naught.

To be continued ...
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  1. Crowe
    Crowe 27 November 2021 07: 17
    +14
    "Shogun" Hojo Tokimune
    Khubilai, realizing that the Japanese were delaying the answer, began preparations for the campaign, while he sent another embassy
    In Japan, the khan, or rather the then emperor Kublai, sent the first embassy in 1266, demanding that the ruler of this "small country" immediately obey him. The message was hastily delivered to the headquarters of the shogun (the military ruler of Japan), and then halfway back to the southwest - to the shogun's nominal overlord, the emperor in Kyoto. The emperor sketched a letter suggesting negotiations, but the shogun immediately forbade him to think about it. After holding the ambassadors for six months, the shogun ordered them to go home without any response at all. This made it possible to somehow gain time. In September 1271, another Korean ambassador arrived, formally carrying a demand for obedience, and unofficially warning the Japanese that it was time to prepare for an attack. Once again, the ambassador was not given any official answer, but now the vassals were ordered to return to their possessions, and the serving nobility - to take up the strengthening of thirty dilapidated coastal castles. The prayers at court grew even more fervent. Therefore, when the Mongolian ambassador landed in Japan in 1272 and demanded that his letters be immediately sent to the emperor, the Japanese warlike spirit revived again. The shogun in the line of the ruling Hojo family was a brave young man of 22 years by the name of Tokimune; he drove out the ambassador by vazasha, the embassy's logs simply beheaded - a grave insult to Khubilai, tantamount to a direct invitation to invade.
    Now war is inevitable. あ り が と う Arigatō, Eduard-san!
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      27 November 2021 08: 31
      +12
      早!
      Yours faithfully,
      Edward
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 27 November 2021 09: 53
        +11
        Yes, I understand that it's too early, this is only the first trip yet, but thanks anyway! Land wars are interesting too, but I hope you won't forget the naval component!
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 27 November 2021 16: 27
        +3
        Great, Edward!
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          27 November 2021 22: 08
          +2
          THANKS A LOT!
          hi
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 27 November 2021 08: 39
      -3
      Well, since the author decided to draw on the book of Marco Polo as his source, then Vaschenko, how do you answer such absurdity that in the illustrations of Marco Polo Khan Khubilai is a Caucasian



      and the representation of the west, I don't even know where this picture comes from, some kind of left, some kind of Mongoloid?

      1. Crowe
        Crowe 27 November 2021 09: 23
        +12
        Well, I'm not such a well-known physiognomy as you, but since we are talking about this, then in the Japanese drawings from the "Scroll of the Mongol Invasion" the rowers confidently distinguish purely Mongolian hairstyles, the same as in the portrait of Kublai himself. One of the officers is depicted giving the order by striking the gong, wearing a fur hat on his head, very similar to the Mongolian hats of the ethnographic time. Some Mongols without caps with sabers bald, apparently, are preparing to board. However, in the pictures there are also Chinese or Koreans with long hairstyles in the form of a bun or "bump" at the back. One of them beats on a lying drum, apparently setting the rhythm for the rowers. Next to him, a warrior in a fur hat beats on another standing drum. So the conventional wisdom about a completely Chinese fleet, which supposedly only belonged to the khan, but consisted of only Chinese and Chinese ships, has yet to be very closely checked. Many facts are not in favor of the stereotype. Although I am not strong in this matter - for me they are all the same.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 27 November 2021 10: 00
        +12
        Quote: Bar1
        illustrated by Marco Polo Khan Kublai Caucasian

        We have already explained to you a hundred times that if you take the trouble to find out when and by whom this or that drawing was made, you will clearly understand that its author, due to objective reasons, often simply could not see what he decided to draw. And he drew the way he imagined it based on the text he had read. The same goes for cards.
        Remember: fine art does not reflect reality, but the author's idea of ​​this reality. And this representation is all the more true, the closer the author was to the depicted object, both geographically and in time, and vice versa - the further, the more distorted.
        I don’t know where you got this drawing, it’s too lazy to look for it, but tell me where, when and by whom it was made?
        I would venture to suggest, not earlier than the XNUMXth century. and, of course, Europe. So?
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 27 November 2021 10: 37
          -8
          When you blurted out that I do not read the "classics of your history" got what they wanted, did I upload a scan from Miller or not?


          Quote: Trilobite Master
          you will clearly understand that its author, due to objective reasons, often simply could not see what he decided to draw. And he drew the way he imagined it based on the text he had read. The same goes for cards.


          yes, to silence the absurdities of the OI Trilobite has to slide down to a completely indecent level of nudity. Like a famous traveler and author of the book "On the diversity of the world" Marco Polo, who lived in Katai / China for 17 years! "did not know what he was writing about"? !! Did you learn to lie from Gebels?

          here's a source of illustrations
          In 1999, a facsimile edition of Marco Polo's book "Le Livre des Mervilles" was published in France. This French edition contains dozens of real (!) Antique color miniatures. In 2002, the publishing house "BNF, Bibliotheque de l'Image" (France) released an album of miniatures "Book of Miracles" on 94 sheets; there are 84 miniatures in A4 format (!), each of which is on a whole sheet. A small part of these miniatures became known in Russia after the publication of the book "Empire-II"

          http://rus-imperia.ru/Polo_book.htm

          in general, for all history lovers, see the St. Petersburg historian D. Belousov - a wonderful study.



          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Remember: fine art does not reflect reality, but the author's idea of ​​this reality. And this representation is the more true, the closer the author was to the depicted object, both geographically and in time, and vice versa - the further, the more distorted


          carried it into a blizzard.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 27 November 2021 11: 03
            +12
            The fact that you have posted a scan of the page does not at all mean that you have read this work, and even more so that you have understood. laughing
            And now I will repeat my question: who, where and when painted these miniatures? Or did you, out of the simplicity of your soul, decide that Marco Polo himself? laughing
            Well, show research talent, objectivity and impartiality of a scientist. And then write me back where the author of the drawing could exactly know what Khubilai and his courtyard looked like.
            Quote: Bar1
            carried the blizzard

            I would like your talents in this area ... laughing
            Do not understand the meaning of what has been said? I hadn't hoped, that's why I wrote: remember. Learn it by heart and somewhere you can flaunt it, you see, and it will pass for a smart one. Only after that, be silent, otherwise the impression will be short-lived - it will dissipate as soon as you open your mouth. laughing
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 27 November 2021 11: 24
              -5
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              The fact that you have posted a scan of the page does not at all mean that you have read this work, and even more so that you understood


              this is some kind of arctic fox, you are the smartest one here, the rest are fools.

              Quote: Trilobite Master
              And now I will repeat my question: who, where and when painted these miniatures? Or did you, out of the simplicity of your soul, decide that Marco Polo himself?


              these illustrations have come down to us from several editions-editions, of which there are VERY, VERY many. For example, Manuscript F edition of 1874. there these illustrations are in which Marco Polo, with his drooping mustache, somehow looks like a Cossack.


              And now you, where did the image of Kublai Mongoloid come from, what is YOUR source?

              I have already noted the appearance of such "sources" on the example of the Book of Chronicles of Rashid ad Din performed by the Leningrad edition of 1940. in which there are NO illustrations, but only then illustrations of the Mongols appeared in some kind of Berlin or English sources about which nothing is known.
              That is, the process of falsifying history continues.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 27 November 2021 11: 42
                +8
                Then they explained everything to you about the miniatures by Rashid ad-Din. Re-read, maybe you will understand now. There, by the way, miniatures were drawn in that place and at that time (ten years later), where and when the described events took place. But you never answered my question: where, when and by whom were the miniatures for the works of Marco Polo drawn?
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 27 November 2021 11: 52
                  -3
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  Then they explained everything to you about the miniatures by Rashid ad-Din.


                  for those who are interested in this forum.
                  They did not explain ANYTHING to me, neither about the Law on St. George's Day - the Judicial Book of Ivan 3, nor about the Collection of Chronicles of Rashid ad Din, nothing about questions about the book of Marco Polo.
                  On this site, the more stars the less confidence in the commentator, this is a sign of this site.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 27 November 2021 11: 58
                    +10
                    Quote: Bar1
                    They didn't explain ANYTHING to me,

                    It is you simply did not understand and did not perceive due to the scarcity of intellect and irrational belief in something that does not exist. laughing
              2. Flooding
                Flooding 27 November 2021 12: 55
                +8
                Kublai, Khan of Mongol Empire, in his elephant palanquin. Facsimile (wood engraving) according to the manuscript "Le Livre des Merveilles" (15th century, in the National Library of Paris (Bibliothèque nationale de France), published in 1888.



                judging by the reliability of the image of elephants, the thought suggests itself that the author of the drawing of these animals did not see
              3. kalibr
                kalibr 27 November 2021 16: 33
                +3
                Quote: Bar1
                then roofing felts from Berlin, or from English sources about which nothing is known.

                You don't know anything! This should be clarified! Open the websites of libraries and museums and read (oh, I’m writing something like that ...) where these books came from, how and when they were attributed. There is about each edition.
            2. Bar1
              Bar1 27 November 2021 11: 34
              -5
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Well, show research talent, objectivity and impartiality of a scientist. And then write me back how the author of the drawing could know exactly what Khubilai and his courtyard looked like.


              well how from where? Marco Polo lived there for 17 years, unlike you, he looked around with OPEN eyes, and not like you closed, that's why he saw, that's why he was able to dictate both text and images to the writer.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 27 November 2021 12: 00
                +8
                Judging by the style of the image and the costumes, it was taken at least a hundred years after the death of Marco Polo. Answer the question: who, when and where?
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 27 November 2021 12: 21
                  -5
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  Judging by the style of the image and the costumes, it was taken at least a hundred years after the death of Marco Polo. Answer the question: who, when and where?


                  here is harmful, insists.
                  One thing can be said about the illustrations by Marco Polo, that they are very old and it is possible that they were already in the first handwritten and printed editions, of which there were a lot, but this only says one thing, CONTEMPORARY and their close descendants described the Mongols and tartare in this way, in contrast from modern historians-falsifiers who have altered the most important thing - the racial identity of the Mongols.
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 27 November 2021 12: 47
                    +10
                    Quote: Bar1
                    One thing can be said about the illustrations by Marco Polo, that they are very old and it is possible that they were already in the first handwritten and printed editions, of which there were a lot, but this only says one thing, CONTEMPORARY and their close descendants described the Mongols and tartare in this way, in contrast from modern historians-falsifiers who have altered the most important thing - the racial identity of the Mongols.

                    Bar, that you are all jolting, but dodging? Maybe Michael did not raise the question clearly enough for your undoubtedly brilliant brain?
                    I will try to paraphrase: These "CONTEMPORARIES and their close descendants" who drew these drawings, which "were already in the first handwritten and printed editions, of which there were a lot." surely you were together with Morco Polo in China with Kublai? Did they see the mono head with their own eyes? Or, nevertheless, they never, in their life, never saw a Mongol in their eyes and painted them according to the principle: "I am an artist. I see it that way!"?
                    Is that more clear?
                    1. Bar1
                      Bar1 28 November 2021 18: 35
                      +2
                      Quote: HanTengri
                      The bar that you all play and dodge


                      I have put specific questions to your Mikhail a hundred times and did not receive answers, but you don’t react to this, but here you’re going.

                      As a study of Marco Polo's book, I cited the cinema of the professional historian D.Belousov, if you have any questions, watch it. The specific answer whether Marco Polo himself did the illustrations or not himself is not known from history, history has not answered this question to us.
                      But the description of the state, order and city suggests that it was not Mongolia, a country of nomads, but a very developed and civilized state, so illustrations with white people are more suitable for the description than primitive primitive communal tribes of modern Mongols.
                  2. kalibr
                    kalibr 27 November 2021 16: 36
                    +5
                    Quote: Bar1
                    one thing can be said that they are very old and it is possible that they were already in the first handwritten and printed editions, of which there were a lot.

                    These are empty words - the dog barks in the wind. Ancient manuscripts are attributed in a completely different way, not by eye ...
      3. Edward Vashchenko
        27 November 2021 10: 22
        +14
        Dear Timur,
        I will surprise you even more:
        in the illustrated books of the Middle Ages, the Trojans were all depicted and armed as the Byzantines of the 6th century. (manuscript in the National Library of Milan), and in the images to the Old Testament either as participants in the 13th century crusades (manuscript in the Parisian National Library) or as Normans of the 12th century (Cathedral in Montreal in Sicily).
        But Sandro Botticelli (15-16 centuries) has Mars and Venus in the picture, Mars has armor of the 15th century. At Gozzoli (15th century), all the Magi, in their procession, are the spitting image of the Medici and their retinue of the 15th century.
        Everything that I remembered on the fly, etc.
        Is it a direct science mystery?
        Yours faithfully,
        hi
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 27 November 2021 10: 57
          -6
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          Is it a direct science mystery?


          Well, what's mysterious?
          As the sources close to those described events portrayed, it is necessary to interpret history, and not to invent unnecessary entities, you need to work with a razor.

          Everything has long been explained by the historians Fomenko and Nosovsky - CHRONOLOGY BOUSED, therefore the Trojans, who were supposed to run in skirts, suddenly began to wear pants like the Byzantines and are armed in the same way. True, Shpakovsky says that the Romans-Antiquities, like the Trojans, nevertheless wore pants ( there are such bas-reliefs on Troyan's column).
          Why is it necessary to remain in the darkness of ignorance and ignorance, to get confused in "riddles" that have long ceased to be riddles and for the sake of only one corporate delusion?
          There are already examples from your environment of real service to science with a capital letter - Svetlana Zharnikova, Alexander Pyzhikov, Dmitry Belousov, I'm not talking about Morozov or Fomenko with Nosovsky.
      4. Sergey Zilinsky
        Sergey Zilinsky 27 November 2021 14: 52
        +7
        I don't even know where this picture comes from, some kind of left, some kind of Mongoloid?
        This is a portrait of Kublai Khan, painted in 1294, shortly after his death, by the court architect Araniko. Not some kind of left handed thing, I guess.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 28 November 2021 18: 58
          +2
          Quote: Sergey Zilinsky
          This is a portrait of Kublai Khan, painted in 1294, shortly after his death, by the court architect Araniko. Not some kind of left handed thing, I guess.



          let's link.
          1. Sergey Zilinsky
            Sergey Zilinsky 29 November 2021 11: 53
            0
            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kublai_Khan
            In the Russian wiki under this portrait it is simply written that the portrait of Kublai Khan, the English one writes in more detail that it was painted on the sling shortly after the death of the khan in 1294.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 29 November 2021 14: 12
              +1
              well, it turns out there are two points of view that the Mongols were yellow and that the Mongols were white.
              The OI's point of view that modern Mongols are the descendants of those Mongols does not stand up to criticism. Those Mongols-Tartars reached the heights of statehood, were engaged in the construction of cities and states. And these Mongols are primitive communal tribes, so apparently these English pictures of yours are fake.
              The same is with the pictures of the Mongols in the chronicles of Rashid ad din.
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 09: 06
      +12
      Good morning! Thanks to Edward for the interesting article, to the Leader and comrades "bow" for the valuable additions to it!
      It is significant that after the death of the first emperor of the Yuan dynasty of the Mongol Kubilai in 1294, the military expansion of the Yuan came to naught.

      A similar situation took place in the west. I will not get ahead of ourselves, but I hope Edward will stop at the process of cultural "absorption" of the Mongol nobility at the beginning of the XIV century.
      In fact, everywhere, with rare exceptions (from Rome to the Normans), a similar process took two or three generations. A correlation with the Golden Horde of Khan Uzbek would be interesting. So stop, let's not get ahead of the Author.
      Eduard traditionally, in this topic, "Tatar-Mongolian" only cites "iron-concrete" facts. Even I would say - be careful, in connection with which I dare to feed Edward's list of references.
      Regards, Vlad!
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 27 November 2021 09: 33
        +10
        Good morning, Vladislav!
        Eduard traditionally, in this topic, "Tatar-Mongolian" only cites "iron-concrete" facts.
        So that's why he is a historian, well, nothing will prevent us from adding artistic, not historical. By the way, a number of researchers from the United States and Japan reported that they found evidence of an ancient Japanese legend about the typhoon-kamikaze, which repelled the invasion of Mongolian troops at the end of 13 century. In order to verify the legend, geologists studied the 2000-year history of the coastal flooding of Kyushu Island, in particular, they analyzed the sediments of Lake Daijia and found out that massive typhoons did take place in the late 13th century! Samples showed that huge waves emerged from the sea shores and reached the lake. The reconstruction indicated an increased frequency of flooding in the region from 250 to 1600 and an abundance of typhoons during the Mongol invasion! So everything was confirmed, except perhaps except for the "divine origin" 神 風 Kamikaze of the divine wind!
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          27 November 2021 10: 06
          +12
          So that's why he is a historian, but nothing will prevent us from adding artistic, not historical, in the comments.

          Good morning!!!!
          And as Budyonny said in the film about the elusive, you can't lie a little, you can't tell a beautiful story.

          AAAAAA Note to Historians When Using Memoirs wassat
          Yours faithfully,
          hi
          1. Crowe
            Crowe 27 November 2021 10: 38
            +14
            you can't lie a little, you can't tell a beautiful story.
            Agree! This is what I will now do, adding a little to your story about the first battles of Kublai's marines and the Ipponian samurai. The landing began on the northwestern coast of Kyushu Island, in the Hakata Bay. Despite the fact that the Japanese fought bravely and received reinforcements from other parts of Kyushu, even ordinary citizens and pirates embarked on a sacred struggle with the Mongol-Chinese invaders, their forces were clearly not enough to prevent the invasion. Imperial soldiers with battles occupied the villages of Imazu, Akasaka and entered into a fierce battle with a small number of Japanese forces near the town of Hakata (now Fukuoka). The stubborn resistance of the Japanese, the sun was falling, as well as the injury of the Chinese commander Liu, forced the invaders to retreat for the night back to the ships anchored in the bay in order to regroup their forces and the next day to continue what they had begun. During the period when fierce battles were going on, the Japanese turned their prayers to their national gods and the spirits of their ancestors. Suddenly in the evening, a storm broke out, the gradually intensifying storm turned into a deadly typhoon. The Mongols were taken by surprise by him. The hurricane scattered the imperial fleet across the water surface, sending 200 ships to the bottom. More than 13 thousand people died in the depths of the sea. The battered remnants of the armada were forced to return back to Korea in complete disarray. "Glory to the Gods! We won!" The joyful Ipponians chanted for a long time and set off to prepare for the next invasion.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 15: 37
              +8
              Quote: Crowe
              The hurricane scattered the imperial fleet across the water surface, sending 200 ships to the bottom.

              Not all the same, the Mongols were wild, the enlightened Persians would have carved out the Pacific Ocean for such an infection, so as not to indulge in! repeat
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 15: 31
            +8
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            AAAAAA Note to Historians When Using Memoirs

            Uh-huh, how I ordered my general to advance !!!
      2. Edward Vashchenko
        27 November 2021 10: 03
        +9
        Vladislav good morning!
        Thanks for the "iron-concrete".
        I will send you the entire list of used literature in a personal, put together.
        Yours faithfully,
        hi
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 12: 21
          +9
          Thank you in advance!
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 12: 39
          +9
          Regarding the seriousness of the evidence base, he assessed in the work on "Eastern or Western Threats", dryly, ascetic and accessible. The conclusions are covered by at least three or four sources. The controversial moments are smoothed out to the point of impossibility, even in some moments knowing the “disagreements” of our “historical luminaries” and “schools” are smeared with oil and oil. However, it is surprising that all the “partners” have slipped into the particulars “professor, I haven’t read a book”!
          I was waiting for someone to dig in essence, which is "more terrible" east or west! Alas, I was disappointed !!!
          In this article, the same thing, "hard confirmation" of the formation and development of society. Conventionally, when every nomad is not only hungry, poor and has a bow and a horse, but falls into the canvas of a time of change (destruction of the tribal system, the emergence of private property and "means of production") gives a "passionate" explosion that sweeps away everything around. Even stable civilizations that have digested more than one or two invasions of "naked neighbors", at some point collapse from pressure. But now, after several generations, the “former year-asses” are already more of those whom they repaired, receive a surprise from the next “naked-asses” and so on almost until the 17th century. The latter, if I'm not mistaken, were Kalmyks!
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            27 November 2021 13: 30
            +8
            Vladislav,
            what to say: bravo!
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 15: 27
              +8
              Quote: Edward Vashchenko
              Vladislav,
              what to say: bravo!

              This is Eduard bravo for you - I appreciate your work laid out the day before yesterday.
              1. LisKat2
                LisKat2 27 November 2021 16: 48
                +4
                Agree: exciting
  2. Crowe
    Crowe 27 November 2021 07: 29
    +12
    Tsushima and Iki islands were captured on the move
    The first on the path of the invaders were the Tsushima Islands (Kamijima and Shimojima) and the Iki Island (currently these islands are part of Nagasaki Prefecture). On the islands, the aggressors were opposed by only a small group of samurai (about 200 warriors), led by Sukekuni Sho from the Taira clan, a descendant of Taira Tomomori. The Mongols quickly broke the Japanese resistance. In the battles at the small settlements of Komoda on the island of Shimojima and Katsumoto on Iki, small samurai squads were killed. The Mongols dealt with the civilian population of the islands with such cruelty that it horrified even the samurai - the old and the wounded were killed on the spot. The captured Japanese women wandered to the ships, not even chained: ropes were threaded through their cut palms. Japan itself was ahead.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 27 November 2021 10: 54
      +8
      The captured Japanese women wandered to the ships, not even chained: ropes were threaded through their cut palms.

      Somehow irrational, where are they then?
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 27 November 2021 12: 50
        +8
        You see how difficult it is for us, the Authors! A lot of things do not fit into articles, and you, readers, scold us for this, but how can we cram something that is not crammed when there is a strict limitation on the amount of work! fiery fighter for the independence of the Land of the Rising Sun, Takedzaki Suenaga, who took part in the battles with the Mongols twice, in 1274 and 1281, whose military prowess is described in the "Scroll of the Mongol invasion" in the most eloquent way
        Samurai Takedzaki Suenaga attacking Mongolian archery
        Fragment of the "Scroll of the Mongol Invasion".

        and a description of the battle itself, when the defenders of the islands were bombarded with all the power of Chinese throwing guns, new products of the most advanced military equipment of that time, which the Japanese did not have. They courageously resisted, but the enemy suddenly began to throw iron powder shells in the form of balls and the size of a hand ball, called in Chinese te pao and in Japanese teppo. [center]
        Several thousand of these projectiles, when thrown, exploded with a terrible roar that shook the surroundings. According to eyewitnesses, Japanese warriors, who had never encountered such weapons and were frightened by the terrible roar of explosions, fled in panic. Already after the first wave of Yuan landing on the east coast of Kyushu in the Hakata Bay the Japanese defense wavered. By the end of the first day of the battle, the Japanese suffered serious losses in manpower and (almost wrote to the technique) military equipment, and only night twilight saved them from complete defeat. And then the same "divine wind" happened
        and the national liberation movement of Japan won a victory over the accursed occupiers. That is why I try not to shoot at the pianists, to which I call on the entire progressive community of our esteemed "Military Review".
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 27 November 2021 13: 13
          +7
          There are many interesting things, but there is no answer to my question. It's easier to write "I have no answer", and then offer an interesting story about powder shells, although I know this story.
          Now the question is: Who is "shooting at the pianist" here, I hope you don't mean me?
          1. Crowe
            Crowe 27 November 2021 15: 13
            +9
            No, not about Edward's article, I’m so, in general. We love (including myself) sometimes grumble, but the point is - does it get more interesting? In my opinion, it’s better when everyone adds something interesting rather than express their "phi", as many love. It just inspired something. Well, okay, we were distracted - what was so surprising in the description of the transportation of female prisoners of war? , which completely discourages the will to resist and bad thoughts about escape when you are taken to the ship in a similar way.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 27 November 2021 15: 26
              +8
              ... if the tendons are not touched, such wounds heal quickly, it hurts at first,

              Yes, with the then antiseptic and other things, it is unlikely that many survived to the port of destination, or did not become crippled. In general, I do not care, I am simply surprised by such a mismanagement of the product.
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 27 November 2021 08: 14
    +10
    The feeling of an all-out guerrilla war. The vietas cause serious respect. Everything: rivers and roads against invaders.
    1. restless
      restless 27 November 2021 09: 21
      +10
      Americans will always remember Vietnam, respect these little people with fearless hearts, how many centuries ago they killed invaders ...
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 27 November 2021 09: 25
        +10
        Yes. Associations come involuntarily.
        I’m thinking how much the jungle looked like these different buildings.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 27 November 2021 08: 22
    +10
    And what was happening at that time in the territories of the Russian principalities?
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 27 November 2021 09: 10
      +13
      "Karamzin said that if I could answer the question in one word: what is being done in Russia, I would have to say: they are stealing."
      "Old notebooks" by P. A. Vyazemsky, 8th volume of the "Complete Works" (published in 1883)
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 27 November 2021 09: 42
      +12
      Depending on what time it is. smile
      After the death of Nevsky, his brother Yaroslav ruled, then his children Dmitry and Andrei fought among themselves for twenty years, the tenth of Andrei's reign after the death of Dmitry ended in the XNUMXth century.
      Further - Tver and Moscow.
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        27 November 2021 10: 11
        +9
        Michael,
        good morning,
        I wanted to share my thought with all the comrades.
        About the nomads of Eurasia, I am deeply in the subject, including the whole of archeology. All the same, the dissertation is about this.
        But then some idea came, and after all, the nomadic associations of Indians (Apaches, Comanches) are an absolute analogue of both societies and behavior to the nomads of Eurasia.
        hi
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 27 November 2021 10: 39
          +9
          hi ..I was interested in another question, what income brought the way "from the Varangians to the Greeks." At what moment, after the capture of Constantinople in 1204, by the crusaders, the path began to "wither" much faster.
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            27 November 2021 11: 01
            +8
            Good morning,
            the story about "the way from the Varangians to ..." will take a lot of time.
            in a nutshell, in my opinion.
            The significance of this path is too exaggerated by the efforts of historians for one reason or another.
            If in the 10th century Russia had something to offer, then in the 11th and 12th such a proposal was significantly reduced. In the 10th century, the passage along this path is a full-fledged military campaign, as Konstantin Bogryanorodny writes about.
            This route was used sporadically, there were merchants, pilgrims, representatives of the church. Russia, for example, actively traded with coastal countries, Bulgaria for example. But all this was not systemic, with gigantic flows of goods, as one might imagine.
            With active church interaction, descriptions of Russians in Constantinople, as well as descriptions of Russians in Byzantium, 3-4 testimonies.
            Yours faithfully,
            hi
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 27 November 2021 11: 44
              +6
              Svyatoslav, our light Igorevich, explained why he liked to sit in Pereyaslavets, and not in Kiev, literally with "numbers" in his hands wink But all the same, a certain time and money had its meaning, some and not small. It is a pity, there is very little literature on this issue.
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                27 November 2021 13: 31
                +5
                It is a pity that there is very little literature on this issue.

                Literature sea. I will send you a part, a little time is running out.
                Yours faithfully,
                hi
                1. parusnik
                  parusnik 27 November 2021 15: 55
                  +4
                  I'll be very thankful.. hi
            2. LisKat2
              LisKat2 27 November 2021 16: 45
              +4
              Edward, can I forgive you: tell us about antiquity?
              I like this period
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                27 November 2021 22: 19
                +4
                Good evening Ekaterina,
                good request.
                It is necessary to think, since I myself am a specialist in Russian and write more about that. what is close to me and what I want to convey to the reader is worth considering. Maybe it will be in ancient places where I have been myself?
                There seemed to be articles on the history of my hometown of Panticapaeum, you can certainly describe its archaeological history.
                I'll think about it.
                Yours faithfully,
                Edward
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 12: 48
            +8
            Quote: parusnik
            hi ..I was interested in another question, what income brought the way "from the Varangians to the Greeks." At what moment, after the capture of Constantinople in 1204, by the crusaders, the path began to "wither" much faster.

            If you literally read PVL, then the path from the Varangians to the Greeks is tied to the journey of the Apostle Andrew and no more.
            In fact, the economic feasibility of this route falls on the period when the "Volga trade route" was cut short. With its resumption of functioning.
            "From the Varangians to the Greeks" remains the administrative internal road between the two centers in Novgorod and Kiev, with the extreme point of contact in Smolensk.
            It has been archaeologically proven that further the South Stream of goods went not to the Varangians, to the Germans. Similarly, the north south of the land of the Krivichi also did not spread. There are no trading "graveyards" north of Smolensk to Novgorod. Transportation of goods is possible only in winter. So my opinion is this corny archaic path (more precisely, part of the path) of the "polyudya" of the first Russian princes. With a trading function included in this aspect.
            In short, so.
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 27 November 2021 16: 01
              +4
              And at the mouth of the Dnieper, a busy shopping center did not work out like Novgorod. I am interested in something else, I do not succeed in formulating the thought correctly, hence, there is no time for understanding. wink hi
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 21: 21
                +4
                Quote: parusnik
                And at the mouth of the Dnieper, a busy shopping center did not work out like Novgorod.

                Aleksey, Novgorod is also not located at the mouth of any rivers. If we take Staraya Ladoga, Pskov, Koporye and Oreshek separately, they are geographically more convenient, but Novgorod is to control the intersections of these roads. This is its advantage.
                1. parusnik
                  parusnik 28 November 2021 07: 33
                  +3
                  Oleshie, Peresechen, did not become such cities. Once again, I have "my own", which I want to understand. wink Specifically, I do not impose or advance something. wink
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 27 November 2021 11: 10
          +10
          Greetings, Edward.
          In my opinion, there is a significant, downright deadly difference - they did not have horses. The role of the horse in the development of civilization on our planet, in principle, it seems to me, is generally not fully understood by people.
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            27 November 2021 11: 18
            +8
            The role of the horse in the development of civilization on our planet, in principle, it seems to me, is generally not fully understood by people.

            That's right.
            But the Comanches (union) have been in the saddle since the beginning of the 17th century, the Apaches (union) have been in the saddle since the end of the 17th century.
            The entire 18th century "raid economy" with New Spain + selection of horses is active, so they are nomads in their purest form.
            By the way, the Apaches from sedentary turned into nomads, this happened in Eurasia.
            hi
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 27 November 2021 11: 34
              +8
              Oh, so you are talking about America, already familiar with Europe ...
              Well, I don’t presume to argue here on the fly. You have to think. I don't know much about the Indians, and I was fond of childhood, but the Indians of the forests, not the prairies. Those, too, seemed to roam, but here it is completely different ...
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 13: 21
              +8
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              By the way, the Apaches from sedentary turned into nomads, this happened in Eurasia

              I have already read somewhere in rough outline about the similarity of the nomadic life of the cut population of Asia and America.
              Version for? What are those that others come from central Siberia! Altai smithy - the Great Nations Migration !!! tongue
              The version is against. The originally nomadic way of life is a seasonal migration of hunters for herds of animals. See Koryaks, Yugokars, Nenets and Laplanders who were originally hunters and then cattle breeders. It's one thing to go for meat, another thing to go for meat again. Only in the first you are a hunter, and in the second a cattle breeder!
              At the level of anecdote about the last agricultural census.
              Sitting on a snowmobile - a Nenets, the scribe asks him how many oleski father do you have? The father thinks for a minute, bends his fingers and says - "there are a lot of little deer, son." Did you count them as a father? Well - I counted in the fall, and I say a lot. How much is this much? The old man comes up to the scribe and, on a flat tundra like a table, explains from that cloud to that river my nuts, and from that bump they are no longer mine. I need a drooping "son" in my "heads". "Father" write "three hundred" with a smile. A soaring scribe, it’s been like that for a long time! The old man grinning is not mine, but a neighbor's. Ask him about mine !!! good
              Whether it’s true or not, a participant in this gum from Pura said at breakfast.
            3. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 27 November 2021 14: 32
              +5
              Hello Edward! hi
              I want to note that even with the presence of mounts on the American continent, the Indians could hardly have developed a nomadic society according to the Eurasian model, in the absence of a habitat. Before the onset of MLP, the Great Prairie was a rocky semi-desert.
              Thank you for the article!
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                27 November 2021 16: 01
                +6
                Good evening,
                clear. Great Prairie is American virgin soil raised laughing
                hi hi hi
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2021 21: 27
                  +3
                  Quote: Edward Vashchenko
                  Good evening,
                  clear. Great Prairie is American virgin soil raised laughing
                  hi hi hi


                  Quote: kalibr
                  Not really Edward. Both traditions and time are different. And the economic base ...


                  Seriously though, Native Americans are to blame. Got the possible ancestor of the American horse back in the Neolithic!
                  Thus, he lost himself the possibility of an evolutionary loop.
            4. Mihaylov
              Mihaylov 29 November 2021 14: 19
              0
              Greetings Edward!
              Nice article and interesting discussion! hi
              so they are nomads in their purest form.

              I don’t really know about the Indians of North America (children's books do not count): what kind of nomads are they?
              Hunter-gatherers with an appropriating farm? or already nomadic livestock breeders with a productive form of economy?
              Here it seems to me "two big differences." drinks
        3. kalibr
          kalibr 27 November 2021 16: 45
          +5
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          But then some idea came, and after all, the nomadic associations of Indians (Apaches, Comanches) are an absolute analogue of both societies and behavior to the nomads of Eurasia.

          Not really Edward. Both traditions and time are different. And the economic base ...
  5. Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 27 November 2021 09: 28
    +8
    Quote: Crowe
    The Mongols dealt with the civilian population of the islands with such cruelty that it horrified even the samurai - the old and the wounded were killed on the spot. The captured Japanese women wandered to the ships, not even chained: ropes were threaded through their cut palms. Japan itself was ahead.

    what Strangely, in the wars with the Ainu and other indigenous tribes, the proto-Japanese and later, even before the period of Muromachi Jidai, the warring principalities, completely exterminated the conquered, including the elderly, women and children.
    Dmitry Matveevich Pozneev, wrote: "Travelers can still see in the northern part of the main island heaps of Ainu bones, beaten by Japanese armies more than a thousand years ago. Near Morioka, in the Rikutsu province, there is ... a rampart containing the bones of the beaten Ainu, this monument belongs to exploits Sakanoue no Tamuromaro in the XNUMXth century A.D. " So the feudal lord Sakanoue no Tamuromaro (nicknamed "the Fierce") conquered the Ainu in the north of Honshu.
    Later, during periods (Sengoku jidai) from the 14th century. the victorious clan destroyed the representatives of the vanquished completely ...
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 27 November 2021 09: 41
      +11
      I suppose that for temporary use you yourself understand for what purposes. The rest, according to a nice custom, were naturally cut out.
    2. Edward Vashchenko
      27 November 2021 11: 19
      +11
      This is when you yourself, then you can, and when you, then: for what?
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 28 November 2021 07: 29
      +3
      Quote: Lynx2000
      Later, during periods (Sengoku jidai) from the 14th century. the victorious clan destroyed the representatives of the vanquished completely ...

      I tried to destroy! But usually the losing clan will always give up BEFORE! To then RECOVER and REVENGE. There was a saying - "What bends can straighten!" The Americans found this out in 1944, when they began to prepare an invasion of Japan. Then it was very important to them. That is, if you show the Japanese that total destruction awaits them, they will surrender. As soon as historians reported this to the military, a decision was made to launch a nuclear bombardment.
  6. Crowe
    Crowe 27 November 2021 10: 00
    +11
    A two-month battle has begun for the walls on the coast
    I liked how anxiously they cherish their history, everything is in perfect condition

    the storm sank the ships
    Anchor one of them. Studies of the remains of the second armada, recently discovered by Japanese archaeologists, showed that a significant part of the squadron consisted of flat-bottomed river junks, not adapted for ocean campaigns. For the construction of ships, low-quality boards were used that had been in business, many of which did not exceed a couple of meters in length, and boards longer than three meters were not found at all. Of course, not all ships of the squadron were like that, but, apparently, fragile ships made up a considerable part of the armada, which led to such consequences.
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      27 November 2021 22: 23
      +4
      I liked how anxiously they cherish their history, everything is in perfect condition

      Good evening, in Moscow about 10 years ago in the Kremlin there was an exhibition of samurai weapons from Japan: you can say the best.
      As someone interested in the history of weapons (not Japanese) and an ex-gunsmith, I was shocked by the preservation of swords of the 11th and 13th centuries, there are pictures by the way. "well, how the hell, Watson, how?"
      Three from then on with clove oil every day, I received an answer (via a translator, of course).
      hi
  7. Andobor
    Andobor 27 November 2021 15: 08
    +7
    This is not Mongolian business to sail the seas and rummage through the jungle,
    - and the Chinese are still fighters.
  8. LisKat2
    LisKat2 27 November 2021 16: 34
    +5
    "masters of throwing machines" I read that the Chinese served the Chinese
  9. bk0010
    bk0010 27 November 2021 22: 07
    +3
    Vietnamese, what good fellows: they poked the Tatar-Mongols!
  10. Seal
    Seal 30 December 2021 22: 23
    0
    In 1283, a new campaign began to be planned in Beijing, and Zhang Lin, a master who knew how to make "Muslim" stone throwers, arrived in Korea.
    That is, before that, there were either no stone throwers in China, or they were useless, right?