Military Review

The emergence of new anti-ship missiles in Russia and China negates the advantages of the US Navy aircraft carriers

212

American aircraft carriers no longer play a significant role in modern military conflicts, as they did during the Cold War. And this is to blame for the emergence of new missiles in Russia and China, such as the hypersonic Zircon, capable of sending an entire "floating airfield" to the bottom. Writes about this the author of an article for the American edition of the Wall Street Journal Jerry Hendrix.


The development of anti-ship missiles negates all the advantage of American aircraft carriers, which are unable to perform their tasks due to the inability to approach the coast at a sufficient distance, the author writes. Currently, the US Navy does not have a carrier-based aircraft capable of striking targets located at a considerable distance from the ship.

In 1996, the range of the US aircraft carrier air group was 1400 km and not a single anti-ship missile could reach the ship. In 2006, this radius was reduced to 900 km, and Russia and China have developed missiles capable of hitting targets at ranges over 1 km. Air groups can no longer carry out massive strikes against ground targets.

The point is, writes Hendrix, that the US Navy has removed from service the A-6 Intruder carrier-based attack aircraft, capable of operating at a distance of 1400 kilometers with a full bomb load, and has not received a new aircraft with similar performance. The F / A-18 Super Hornet in service has a combat radius of no more than 900 km, which is no longer relevant in a modern military conflict. The same can be said for the deck versions of the F-35B (720 km) and F-35C (1120 km).

Aircraft carriers, which proved to be excellent during the conflict in Iraq or Yugoslavia, cannot approach the coast of China or Russia to give work to their aviation, as one anti-ship missile can send a ship worth $ 13 billion to the bottom.

If in the near future the Navy does not have a new aircraft with a long range, the role of aircraft carriers in a military conflict with an equal enemy will become insignificant, Hendrix sums up.
Photos used:
https://twitter.com/US5thFleet
212 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 21 November 2021 07: 55
    +5
    The emergence of new anti-ship missiles in Russia and China reduces on no advantages of the US Navy aircraft carriers

    ***
    «To no and there is no court "...
    ***
    1. knn54
      knn54 21 November 2021 09: 32
      0
      -The F / A-18 Super Hornet is in service with a combat radius of no more than 900 km,
      Plus the range of a rocket launched from an aircraft.
      And to sink the aircraft carrier you need at least 7 ... 8 "Zircons". Without YaBG, of course.
      Damage (cabin, runway, etc.) is certainly less.
      1. hrych
        hrych 21 November 2021 10: 34
        +19
        Quote: knn54
        And to sink the aircraft carrier you need at least 7 ... 8 "Zircons".

        Where does the experience come from? Personal or grandma said wassat
        Quote: knn54
        Damage (cabin, runway, etc.) is certainly less.

        It matters not to damage, not to drown, but to disable. That is, so that the aircraft carrier could not complete the task. Total destruction is not required for this, it is not required to drown. Damage to the same runway will completely turn this ship into a mountain of useless scrap metal. Zircon has tremendous kinetic energy, even without warheads, it will cause tremendous structural damage. And after going inside the aircraft carrier and blown up ... The aircraft carrier is not hollow, but stuffed to the eyeballs with aviation fuel, aircraft with tanks, ammunition, etc. The aircraft carrier has an explosive reactor, a system of steam catapults, etc. Therefore, one tablet is enough. laughing
        1. knn54
          knn54 21 November 2021 10: 51
          +5
          -Hrych: Where does the experience come from? Personal or grandmother said.
          Not a grandmother, but a caperang, the former head of the General Staff of the Russian Navy.
          1. hrych
            hrych 21 November 2021 11: 11
            +2
            Quote: knn54
            former chief of the General Staff of the Russian Navy.

            It is unlikely that he would have said such heresy. wassat Moreover, those who were with Zircon did not work from the word at all laughing Here, a supersonic missile pierces the ship destroying all the giblets, well, the aircraft carrier will be three times longer, so what? https://vk.com/video246525775_170467477
            1. knn54
              knn54 21 November 2021 13: 15
              -2
              -Hrych: Moreover, those who were with Zircon did not work from the word at all.
              Several years ago, the Russian Navy adopted missiles that were superior to their Western counterparts.
              So, he approved / endorsed the technical specification for development back in 1994!
              Do you know when the work on the Zircon project began.
            2. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov 21 November 2021 20: 48
              +1
              American Hendrix said that clever people became clear after the message about hypersonic missiles. But local fanatical "aircraft carriers" strongly disagree with this! laughing
              1. TovSaaakhov
                TovSaaakhov 22 November 2021 07: 04
                -1
                Well, maybe you are a "smart" person, explain how to solve the problems of target detection and target designation? Calling yourself smart is not enough.
                1. Vladimir Mashkov
                  Vladimir Mashkov 22 November 2021 12: 17
                  +1
                  Quote: TovSaaakhov
                  Well, maybe you are a "smart" person, explain how to solve the problems of target detection and target designation? Calling yourself smart is not enough.

                  Dmitry (or Dmitro?), I don't have that much time to enter into a long, useless correspondence with fanatics or trolls to whom you can never prove anything, demanding to spend time on them and prove, prove, prove something to them. smile

                  By the way. I even know what you say. Something like "Well, I told you ..." Or something like that. You all look so alike ...laughing
                  1. TovSaaakhov
                    TovSaaakhov 23 November 2021 07: 48
                    -2
                    You must understand at the beginning of your comment - a hint of Ukraine. You will remember, please, little respected troll, that in 2021 this is a weak argument that demonstrates your level of intelligence from a bad side.
                    On the merits of the question, you have nothing to answer?
          2. tikhonov66
            tikhonov66 22 November 2021 12: 14
            0
            "... Not a grandmother, but a caperang, the former chief of the General Staff of the Russian Navy
            ..."
            - wait. They will come to you ...
            And you will tell everything - and how many zircons there were ... and what kind of "caperang" was there ... and in what circumstances it was there, which, if it really was, will now be not only the former chief of the department. .. but also a STRONG former caperang.
            - something like this...

            But, it seems to me - that you are just blatantly Lying ...
        2. venik
          venik 21 November 2021 12: 03
          +8
          Quote: hrych
          It matters not to damage, not to drown, but to disable. That is, so that the aircraft carrier could not complete the task. Total destruction is not required for this, it is not required to drown.

          =======
          Greetings, Dmitry! Something you today amicably rushed to "minus", but everything is RIGHT! drinks
          Obviously, the "minusers" have forgotten the story of the aircraft carriers Forrestall and Enterprise .... But here and there it all started with a spontaneous launch of just a small 127-mm NUR "Zuni"! And the result ?! A lot of people died (134 people on the Forrestal and 27 on the Enterprise), half a thousand people were injured and mutilated, and both ships were out of order for a LONG time!
          Fire on the Forrestal (1967)


          Fire on the Enterprise (1969)

          And although since then there have been no such large-scale incidents, the Yankees are not at all in vain "sounding the alarm": if at least one single anti-ship missile system breaks through to the aircraft carrier, and with a very good degree of probability, you will not be in trouble!
          1. Product8
            Product8 21 November 2021 21: 37
            0
            Quote: venik
            from a spontaneous launch of just a small 127-mm NUR "Zuni"!

        3. businessv
          businessv 21 November 2021 16: 16
          +1
          Quote: hrych
          The aircraft carrier has an explosive reactor, a system of steam catapults, etc. Therefore, one tablet is enough.
          It is a pity, I did not reach your post in reading, I would not waste time on my own! smile good
        4. Product8
          Product8 21 November 2021 21: 39
          0
          Quote: hrych
          Damage to the same runway will completely turn this ship into a mountain of useless scrap metal.

          1. 76SSSR
            76SSSR 21 November 2021 23: 01
            +2
            20 "Granites" - you have registered this with a large margin, as I think.) In general, "Granites" with specials are desirable in such a case. Warhead - nuclear.) There are anti-ship missiles, "Caliber" banged at a sea target. We would have to put things in order with the Central Administration, that's what the real trouble is ...
            1. Product8
              Product8 21 November 2021 23: 42
              0
              Quote: 76SSSR
              In general, "Granites" with specials are desirable in such a case. Warhead - nuclear.)

              This is from the net. Not mine.
              At 949 -4 s. At 671 two. for 877-two for 670-two.
          2. hrych
            hrych 22 November 2021 11: 17
            +2
            Of course it will restore, taking into account that Granites are in priority semi-megatonic wassat The number of Granites in a full salvo of the missile carrier was calculated for a guaranteed breakthrough of the air defense and the elimination of not the aircraft carrier, but the entire order, the entire enemy compound and, naturally, by the damaging factors of a nuclear explosion. As well as bases, ports and coastal cities. With regards to local wars, and not with NATO countries, of course, there can be no talk of any massed halls with Granites. Single, well, there are paired and without SBCH. And the war with NATO is nuclear a priori. For some reason, your brother does not understand this. And the concept of "Aircraft Carrier Killers" is nuclear, unambiguously. Zircon is a more versatile rocket, there will be not dozens, well, a hundred or two Granites per Universe, but many hundreds and even thousands in the future. Although the SBS will be unambiguous, but the kinetic strike will be good for hitting from coastal complexes and small ships. Granite is not for small ships, but a tool for nuclear-powered giants.
            1. Product8
              Product8 22 November 2021 17: 54
              0
              Quote: hrych
              Granite is not for small ships, but a tool for nuclear-powered giants.

              We drove through.
              Then with the Legend and the Tu-95 RC did not work, and now even more so.
              1. hrych
                hrych 22 November 2021 22: 34
                +2
                No, we didn't. The Far East direction was controlled by the ZGRLS Volna, and the Western direction, from the Barents Sea to the north of Africa, is being monitored by the ZGRLS Container. The wave was originally created to track enemy sea formations, and the air defense turned out to be a bonus, then the Container was originally created as a system for detecting missile launches, sea formations, air attacks, including creeping cruise missiles. Due to the well-developed algorithms on the Wave, the data of the ZGRLS were able to level the problems of the ionosphere inconsistency with the change of day and change of the seasons, and now in real time it allows you to have accurate target coordinates and give guidance to sea, strike vehicles and coastal Sunflowers with coastal complexes. The Liana system has been deployed and has already surpassed the Legend in all respects and is now in operation. Why is it down to your brother's throat. The Ministry of Defense now has more than 140 military satellites for communication, tracking, positioning and target designation. In addition to passive radar reconnaissance, there is active, there is optical, etc. In the USSR, this could only dream of. However, to carry nonsense that the Legend did not work out the essence of nonsense is. The legend worked until the 21st century, and the passive reconnaissance satellites of the Legend worked until recently. And the RF has always had target designation. Is always. Liana this year was replenished with the fifth Lotus-satellite of passive radio intelligence and in the same year it was replenished with Pion - an active radio-intelligence satellite. Of course, no one has canceled AWACS aircraft, and our MiG-31 and Su-35 in the front hemisphere are not inferior in detection by range to heavy trucks and also have this specialization. Where the unfortunate Americans, etc., on their ships, especially the larger ones, quietly get close to our shores, I don’t know. Is it in your imagination wassat
                1. Bogatyrev
                  Bogatyrev 22 November 2021 22: 50
                  0
                  Didn't you analyze the possibility of the enemy setting up jamming in the ionosphere with the help of something like Harp before a massive attack?
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 22 November 2021 23: 01
                    +2
                    Harp is the same ZGRLS like Dugi, is an early warning system, and the rest is speculation. For the ionosphere, all the radiation power of the Harps, the former Dugi, the Container, is like the squeak of a mosquito. The only thing that can give good interference is a powerful, high-altitude nuclear explosion, but it itself will turn American warships into useless trash. They themselves will lose their defensive and strike systems completely.
                    1. Bogatyrev
                      Bogatyrev 23 November 2021 01: 27
                      0
                      For the ionosphere, let's say, not, but what prevents the creation of certain systems to suppress our ZGRLS at their frequencies, by analogy with electronic warfare?
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 23 November 2021 20: 41
                        +2
                        How do you want it? Amplify the signal at the same frequency? Those. help the radar? Here, stealth is trying to bounce the signal to the side, but this is only at certain wavelengths. For OGRLS frequencies, this number does not pass. EW is useless here.
                      2. Bogatyrev
                        Bogatyrev 24 November 2021 00: 04
                        0
                        Hammer the radar signal at the same frequency with rubbish. As does the electronic warfare.
                      3. hrych
                        hrych 25 November 2021 00: 22
                        0
                        This does not work in radar. You can score the radar itself, but it has a huge energy and in the deep rear. Its reflected signal will not go anywhere. Even if you give the whole spectrum, it will only get better.
                2. Product8
                  Product8 23 November 2021 07: 06
                  -1
                  Quote: hrych
                  Is it in your imagination

                  Yes, that's right))) You wrote everything correctly.)))
                  1. Vale2000
                    Vale2000 24 November 2021 00: 47
                    -1
                    Quote: Product8
                    Yes, that's right))) You wrote everything correctly.)))

                    Yes, there is nothing to argue with the storyteller.
                    It seems that this is Skomorokhov writing.
          3. tikhonov66
            tikhonov66 22 November 2021 12: 29
            0
            And how many GALYUNOV will we need - if not to sink, then at least for a long time to disable the aircraft carrier of the "Enterprise" type?
            - Let's take (clean for an example) - only a pond of latrines ... but, however, filled to capacity ...
            https://topwar.ru/29872-ataka-na-enterprayz.html
            eight-))))
        5. Bogatyrev
          Bogatyrev 22 November 2021 22: 44
          -1
          Fuel and ammunition are at their bottom and are very well structurally protected.
          Ammunition is supplied only before departure and is not stored in large quantities on decks like Nagumo's on Akagi.
          The fire extinguishing system on the American aircraft carriers is super effective, duplicated and completely excludes the spread of fire.
          Damage control training is at the highest level.
          An aircraft carrier is a very tenacious target.
          1. hrych
            hrych 22 November 2021 22: 53
            +2
            You simply cannot imagine the kinetic impact of a supersonic missile of 7-8 tons with the detonation of a half-ton land mine. And even more so, you cannot imagine the kinetic impact of a multi-ton projectile accelerated to hypersound. It's just hard to imagine, but there will be minced meat inside, the outer shell is like paper.
            1. Bogatyrev
              Bogatyrev 23 November 2021 01: 13
              0
              Yes, but this stuffing will only be at the local site of the hit. Further deformations will be compensated by constructive protection. The fire will be extinguished very quickly, the water inflow is localized and eliminated.
              Even if a section of the deck is damaged, its overall dimensions can still allow it to receive and lift aircraft.
              In fact, it can turn out as with the Yamato shells at Leyte - the power is great, and the ship is not destroyed.
      2. Shurik70
        Shurik70 21 November 2021 10: 35
        -3
        Aircraft carriers have never used even comparable opponents in serious wars.
        Every war, where there were aircraft carriers, it was a "one-sided game".
        Incomparable technical superiority and complete knowledge of the enemy troops.
        But if there was a war of equals, even without nuclear weapons, aircraft carriers would be disabled at the beginning of the war. Maybe they would not have sunk (they have serious security), but they would have been incapacitated. One bomb in the flight deck - and the planes will not be able to take off.
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 21 November 2021 18: 13
          +1
          Quote: Shurik70
          Aircraft carriers have never used even comparable opponents in serious wars.

          At the Battle of Midway, for example? laughing
          1. Shurik70
            Shurik70 21 November 2021 21: 22
            0
            Quote: Lara Croft
            At the Battle of Midway, for example?

            good
            Amendment: modern aircraft carriers, not their relatively cheap propeller-driven WW2 counterparts. When they took it on a mass scale, not quality.
            The last time they were used in 1956-57 during the joint aggression of England and Israel in Egypt
            1. Lara Croft
              Lara Croft 21 November 2021 21: 35
              0
              Quote: Shurik70
              Correction: modern aircraft carriers

              Countries with full-fledged multipurpose aircraft carriers (with nuclear or conventional EI) on the fingers of one hand can be counted ...
              1. Shurik70
                Shurik70 21 November 2021 23: 20
                -1
                Quote: Lara Croft
                Countries with full-fledged multipurpose aircraft carriers (with nuclear or conventional power units) can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

                But the article is about US aircraft carriers
                1. Lara Croft
                  Lara Croft 21 November 2021 23: 23
                  0
                  Quote: Shurik70
                  But the article is about US aircraft carriers

                  An article, yes, but you wrote about all aircraft carriers, not just American ones:
                  Aircraft carriers have never been used in serious wars. at least comparable opponents.
                  Every war, where there were aircraft carriers, it was a "one-sided game".
      3. venik
        venik 21 November 2021 11: 30
        +3
        Quote: knn54
        And to sink the aircraft carrier you need at least 7 ... 8 "Zircons". Without YaBG, of course.

        =======
        Firstly, it is WHERE it will go!
        And secondly: And it MUST be drowned? It's enough make a hole in the flight deck (somewhere closer to the middle) or in the catapult area and ...... already "nobody flies anywhere"! Not to mention the fact that even a small irreparable (at sea) roll on any of the sides or trim (bow or stern) and the aircraft carrier turns into an" elegant floating aircraft warehouse ", which also needs to be guarded right up to the shipyard !
        Besides - don't forget - under the upper deck there are a lot of planes and aviation kerosene! So... request
        1. Product8
          Product8 21 November 2021 12: 29
          -1
          Quote: venik
          Not to mention the fact that even a small irreparable (in the sea) roll

          The F-35 will land and take off without a catapult .... a ballast tank system ... operations, as a rule, near continental airfields, where aircraft can be landed after an impact.
          Fuel tanks - inert gas injection.
          To list is simply reluctant.
          1. venik
            venik 21 November 2021 14: 58
            +1
            Quote: Product8
            The F-35 will land and take off without a catapult .... a ballast tank system ... operations, as a rule, near continental airfields, where aircraft can be landed after an impact.
            Fuel tanks - inert gas injection.
            To list is simply reluctant.

            ========
            How great it is! Have you seen the pictures from above? And it all started with 2 little NURs!
            And what about the "continental airfields" - well, WHAT is the point then to drive the AUG, if it is possible to fly from the "continental airfields" ???
            1. Product8
              Product8 21 November 2021 16: 59
              0
              Reserve. Enhancer. Effort transfer. The excitement making it difficult to fly from an aircraft carrier.
              The situations are different. It all started with a fallen crane, and little NURs were not needed.
              Honestly, already 50 years ago something has appeared, it is immediately called "the killer of aircraft carriers", and they both swam and float.
              One killer called "Kursk", the second killer "Legend", the third killer dispersed by the MPA ....
              Found a new toy, but this is without me.
              1. tikhonov66
                tikhonov66 22 November 2021 12: 32
                +1
                "... for about 50 years something has appeared, it is immediately called" the killer of aircraft carriers ", and they both swam and float. ..."
                - so they swim because no one "kills" them.
                Like the very "elusive Joe"
                8-))
                1. Product8
                  Product8 22 November 2021 17: 52
                  0
                  Quote: tikhonov66
                  Like the very "elusive Joe"

                  SSBNs are much more dangerous ... but they never came up with killers for them ((
                  1. 76SSSR
                    76SSSR 22 November 2021 21: 39
                    0
                    Quote: Product8
                    SSBNs are much more dangerous ... but they never came up with killers for them ((

                    And I told Mikhail that it is necessary to develop PF first of all. The future belongs to him. SSBN / SSBN is a terrible force ...
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. lucul
        lucul 21 November 2021 11: 49
        -1
        And to sink the aircraft carrier you need at least 7 ... 8 "Zircons"

        Well, here's an introduction - Zircon pierces through the nuclear reactor of an aircraft carrier, or at worst, damages the reactor's cooling system. Effects?
        Secondly, there is a big difference when to attack an aircraft carrier - when it has equipped aircraft on deck or not. Think of John McCain and the aircraft carrier Forrestal, when a single missile launch knocked the aircraft carrier out of action.
        And in a situation of confrontation with our fleet, American aircraft will ALREADY be on the deck with suspended missiles under their wings.
        There can be many options for the development of events.)))
      5. businessv
        businessv 21 November 2021 16: 08
        +2
        Quote: knn54
        And to sink the aircraft carrier you need at least 7 ... 8 "Zircons". Without YaBG, of course.
        We somehow here, on the forum, considered the force of the action of the blank without charge, only the kinetic effect. The numbers turned out to be very impressive. Too lazy to do the calculations again, but according to them it turned out that a maximum of two Zircons was required, in the worst case scenario. The fuel and lubricants warehouses on the aircraft carrier were also taken into account, to which, given their size, the blank also reached.
        1. tikhonov66
          tikhonov66 22 November 2021 13: 12
          0
          "... We somehow here, on the forum, considered the force of action of a blank without charge
          ..."
          - when you were counting, you still did not take into account the effect from the experiment of Tolman and Stewart, associated with the decorrelation of the thermal motion of the electron gas of the metal with the vibrations of the crystal lattice of the metal ...
          - the fact is that the metal as a whole is electrically neutral only due to the fact that the thermal vibrations of the crystal lattice are compensated by the thermal vibrations of the "impregnating" electron gas (electrons in the conduction band of the metal belonging to the entire metal crystal). But the electron gas has a nonzero mass, albeit an extremely insignificant one. Therefore, if a VERY rapidly moving metal crystal (that is, in fact, its crystal lattice) SHARPLY DECELERATE (well, for example, on the aircraft carrier 8-)), then the electron gas of the metal, which has a non-zero inert mass, WILL CONTINUE its motion for a while (as they say by -inertia), which will cause a short-term (for the time of BRAKING of the crystal lattice) DECORRELATION (i.e. mismatch) of local thermal vibrations of the electron gas - with the thermal vibrations of the crystal lattice of the metal. This leads to a temporary LOSS OF THE ELECTRONEUTRALITY of the crystal ALL OVERALL, which in turn leads to the FLANGE of atoms of the crystal lattice of the metal under the action of Coulomb forces (since the crystal lattice of the metal consists of ONE charged ions, which, as is known, are "repelled").
          - In other words - the so-called. EXPLOSION OF METAL.

          It is known that if a metal meteorite collides with the earth's surface at a speed of 2 - 4 km / s (well, that is, two or three times SLOW (!) "Zircon") - then the meteorite upon impact simply "disappears", and upon its explosion / disappearance releases so much energy that a huge crater is formed at the site of the fall (this is how the iron Arizona meteorite that fell in 1891 left a crater with a diameter of 1207 m and a depth of 170 m). And, interestingly, large meteorite bodies are never found in such craters, since almost the entire mass of a metallic (iron) meteorite turns into vapor.

          For more details see: https://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/4072/ (Science and life, METAL EXPLODES!)

          So, it seems to me - quite "ONE TABLET will be enough" ...
          1. businessv
            businessv 22 November 2021 18: 52
            +1
            Quote: tikhonov66
            So, it seems to me - quite "ONE TABLET will be enough" ...
            No, we didn't dig that deep, but we still got very impressive numbers. We came to the same conclusion, but we should check about one pill! wink
      6. faterdom
        faterdom 21 November 2021 22: 46
        0
        A damaged aircraft carrier for the owner country is not a plus, but a huge minus, a weight on the legs of the country and the military-industrial complex.
        As it is now, unfortunately, our "Kuznetsov".
        1. tikhonov66
          tikhonov66 22 November 2021 12: 33
          0
          If you want to ruin a small country (like Ukraine 8-) - give it an aircraft carrier ... \
          8-)))
      7. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 22 November 2021 21: 34
        0
        Quote: knn54
        And to sink the aircraft carrier you need at least 7 ... 8 "Zircons". Without YaBG, of course.

        exactly? are you sure? Recently, one (one!) disgruntled sailor with a rag and a lighter wrote off a sick landing ship for scrap. and his colleagues in the dangerous business could not prevent this. Do you want to convince others that hitting the "Zircon" is something a little less scary than rags and a lighter? belay
        1. Product8
          Product8 22 November 2021 21: 56
          0
          Quote: SanichSan
          a disgruntled sailor with a rag and a lighter wrote off for scrap

          Well ... we can. Reason .... rags. They didn’t come up with anything else.
    2. Aleksey80
      Aleksey80 22 November 2021 15: 01
      -2
      The emergence of new anti-ship missiles in Russia and China negates the advantages of the US Navy aircraft carriers

      For a demonstration of strength, aircraft carriers are very necessary, so this quote is not correct. In peacetime, aircraft carriers are needed precisely to prevent war.
      Submarines and small ships will not cope with such a task. Small ships have a maximum of 30 days of autonomous navigation, and after 30 days they must return to base.
      Aircraft carriers are a whole floating logistics base, autonomous navigation for a whole year or even more. Nuclear power plant.
      Intercepting an anti-ship missile launched at an aircraft carrier - one or many - is a very real task for Russia today.
      The aircraft carrier includes satellites, submarines, escort ships and much more. This is reliable protection.
      An Orthodox Church will be built on the aircraft carrier, which will be consecrated by His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia.
      Who would dare to launch a missile at an aircraft carrier after that?
      It will be much safer to be on an aircraft carrier than to travel by train, for example.
      Yes, there are times when trains derail or fire rockets.
      But these are very rare cases.
  2. Murmur 55
    Murmur 55 21 November 2021 07: 58
    +3
    Are aircraft carriers performing well against Yugoslavia and Iraq? Didn't the air strikes follow the "removal" of the air defense and air forces of these countries by missiles of all sorts? And the author wants to say that such SMART Americans have removed from service an aircraft with a large radius and delivered with a smaller one? Yes, this is a betrayal of the bright ideals of the struggle for democracy.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 21 November 2021 08: 03
      -4
      Aircraft carriers look beautiful at sea. Such power of all America. They are so often filmed in films .... now let them be filmed as they gurgle beautifully and go under the water along with all their planes!
      1. tone
        tone 21 November 2021 08: 06
        +2
        Target designation than dash?
        1. Murmur 55
          Murmur 55 21 November 2021 08: 11
          +20
          A laser pointer, from Aliika.
        2. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 21 November 2021 08: 24
          +6
          The word you give is spelled like this. To start. All around are fools, and they did not think about it in any way. When missiles of this range appear, then target designation issues are resolved at an accelerated pace ... then we launch Earth sensing satellites - launch. Peaceful - peaceful. But big-eyed ... Or maybe they are called differently, this is the biggest secret. Which, of course, all VO experts should know. Irony, if that.
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 21 November 2021 08: 30
            +2
            Yesterday, at nightfall, there was information that Ragozin had been given a lot of money for a constellation of satellites of the Sphere project.
          2. Skipper
            Skipper 21 November 2021 15: 37
            -1
            he does not even know about MKRTs Liana, Legend's successor
            1. TovSaaakhov
              TovSaaakhov 22 November 2021 07: 08
              +1
              But the capabilities of both systems can only upset ..
    2. Popandos
      Popandos 21 November 2021 08: 32
      +1
      If in the near future the Navy does not have a new aircraft with a long range, the role of aircraft carriers in a military conflict with an equivalent enemy will become insignificant.

      Even the appearance of such an aircraft will not save the "big democratizer", the installation of hypersonic anti-ship missiles on the aircraft carrier pushes the AUG even further away from the coast.
      The question with the Central Control Center is becoming very urgent.
    3. Serge-667
      Serge-667 21 November 2021 10: 00
      +18
      The author, I apologize, is a dunce.
      Anti-ship missiles with a range of 1000 km have existed since shaggy times. In particular, 3M-70.
      But range is not the issue. The main problem of using PKRBD is the surprise of the use and the reliability of target designation.
      Those. the possibility of a reliable deployment of the KUG with a sufficient number of anti-ship missiles, reconnaissance and naval aviation come out on top, and not the flight range of the product itself.
      Again, AUG changed its concept long ago. The aircraft carrier has long ceased to be the main striking force. The main task lies with missile cruisers carrying strike weapons and means of overcoming missile defense and air defense. The aircraft carrier, in a modern AUG, has auxiliary functions, such as AWACS, target designation and air defense functions of the AUG.
      Correct me if I'm wrong.
      1. poquello
        poquello 21 November 2021 11: 03
        -1
        Quote: Serge-667
        The main task lies with missile cruisers carrying strike weapons and means of overcoming missile defense and air defense.

        and zircons do not work on them?
        1. Serge-667
          Serge-667 21 November 2021 11: 05
          +3
          And what is the depth of the echeloned defense of the AUG?
          1. poquello
            poquello 21 November 2021 11: 06
            -2
            Quote: Serge-667
            And what is the depth of the echeloned defense of the AUG?

            How do you decide whether you are an Aug or a cruiser?
            1. Serge-667
              Serge-667 21 November 2021 11: 19
              +1
              I'd better throw off the cheat sheet for you.
              1. poquello
                poquello 21 November 2021 11: 22
                -1
                Quote: Serge-667
                I'd better throw off the cheat sheet for you.

                tell me where is the work against zircon?
                1. Serge-667
                  Serge-667 21 November 2021 11: 24
                  0
                  Tell me HOW are you going to break the AUG. At least with zircons, at least with caps, at least by local drainage of the water area.

                  And Zircon has carriers .. This is for you as a surprise. With dimensions, a reflective surface and a speed that is not hypersonic, by no means.
                  1. poquello
                    poquello 21 November 2021 11: 34
                    -1
                    Quote: Serge-667
                    Tell me HOW are you going to break the AUG. At least with zircons, at least with caps, at least by local drainage of the water area.

                    And Zircon has carriers .. This is for you as a surprise. With dimensions, a reflective surface and a speed that is not hypersonic, by no means.

                    the carriers have a maneuver and air defense capable of repelling an attack, then what? the order has no zircon protection
                    1. Product8
                      Product8 21 November 2021 12: 32
                      -3
                      Quote: poquello
                      the order has no zircon protection

                      Have the Zircons already been put into service?
                      Their reserves have been created. The flight crew learned how to use it. The joint tactics of the fleet and aviation have been worked out ...
                      1. poquello
                        poquello 21 November 2021 12: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Product8
                        Have the Zircons already been put into service?

                        Duc will be accepted, and the rest is IMHO secret
                      2. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 13: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: poquello
                        Duc will be accepted, and the rest is IMHO secret

                        Let's wait ... And hope ... A joke of humor.
                        By the way, RUSNANO is bankrupt.
                      3. poquello
                        poquello 21 November 2021 13: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: Product8
                        By the way, RUSNANO is bankrupt.

                        bullshit, the main thing is now Chubais is in the right place
                      4. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 13: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: poquello
                        bullshit, the main thing is now Chubais is in the right place

                        Together with Dima, they jump on the trampoline.)))
                      5. poquello
                        poquello 21 November 2021 14: 18
                        +3
                        Quote: Product8
                        Quote: poquello
                        bullshit, the main thing is now Chubais is in the right place

                        Together with Dima, they jump on the trampoline.)))

                        ? Chubais is now our special representative for the bourgeoisie, so we can assume who is the next bankrupt
                      6. Skipper
                        Skipper 22 November 2021 09: 49
                        0
                        It has long been accepted and combat duty on the MiG-31 is carried
                      7. poquello
                        poquello 22 November 2021 17: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: Skipper
                        It has long been accepted and combat duty on the MiG-31 is carried

                        maybe daggers for a moment? zircon pencil case
                    2. Sad235
                      Sad235 22 November 2021 14: 07
                      -5
                      Tell me, but about the Zircons, wasn't that uncle who told you who promised not to change the Constitution, not to raise the retirement age, and much more. The salary of 2700 bucks is not too small.? There were launches ..? Please show me
                      1. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 23 November 2021 00: 36
                        0
                        It doesn't matter. The sacred phrase "we have" is important. And further in the sense / text, you can substitute everything - zircons, hummingbirds, neptune Zeus, vigorous loaves or even just a trolleybus.
                  2. OgnennyiKotik
                    OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2021 11: 42
                    -2
                    In addition to the control center and the vulnerability of the carriers, there is another problem. Zircon is no problem to knock down. The rocket has an extremely high speed, which means it will go at a high altitude (and at specific altitudes), it is easy to select, the body temperature is high and cannot actively maneuver. For Aegis with SM-3/6 missiles, just a typical target, as for our S-300V / 400/500.
                    1. Product8
                      Product8 21 November 2021 12: 14
                      +2
                      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                      For Aegis with SM-3/6 missiles, just a typical target.

                      Yes it is. In space, targets are knocked down kinetically. This is from what is available, but how is it really? 6 years ago there was a video showing a rocket launch a thousand kilometers away.
                      "... The AN / AAQ-37 DAS is a distributed aperture optoelectronic system (six IR / TV cameras on the surface of the aircraft). It provides passive location in all directions. With this system, the F-35 has already detected ballistic launches. missiles from a record distance of 1200 km. In a recent test, the AN / AAQ-37 DAS worked in conjunction with the AN / APG-81 radar of the F-35 aircraft. ... "
                      1. poquello
                        poquello 21 November 2021 12: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Product8
                        In space, targets are knocked down already, kinetically

                        in space, they shot down the target by calculating the trajectory, this is not an example
                      2. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 13: 24
                        0
                        Quote: poquello
                        in space, they shot down the target by calculating the trajectory

                        And the speed of the AVMA movement, the target designation lag time, the calculation of the lead point ... what is this?
                      3. poquello
                        poquello 21 November 2021 13: 36
                        +2
                        Quote: Product8
                        Quote: poquello
                        in space, they shot down the target by calculating the trajectory

                        And the speed of the AVMA movement, the target designation lag time, the calculation of the lead point ... what is this?

                        this is just a calculation of a predictable goal, and if I remember correctly, they dabbled in this even in the days of the USSR
                      4. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 13: 53
                        +2
                        Quote: poquello
                        and if I remember correctly, they dabbled in this back in the days of the USSR

                        And now they are "indulging" ... the theory of probability is called.
                      5. lucul
                        lucul 21 November 2021 18: 10
                        -6
                        And the speed of the AVMA movement, the target designation lag time, the calculation of the lead point ... what is this?

                        In order for an anti-missile to shoot down a target, it needs to have characteristics at least no worse than that of the target, and as a maximum - much more.
                        But there are no such missiles for NATO armament - see the possible speed of intercepted targets.)))
                      6. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 18: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: lucul
                        In order for an anti-missile to shoot down a target, it needs to have at least as good a performance

                        Overlapping courses.
                        They have missiles that shoot down satellites; they also shoot down ICBMs on descent.
                        Zircon is still in cartoons and in incomprehensible starts of something incomprehensible.
                      7. lucul
                        lucul 21 November 2021 18: 23
                        -5
                        Overlapping courses.

                        Zircon maneuvers - you stubbornly drive this information away from yourself.
                      8. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 18: 27
                        +2
                        Quote: lucul
                        Zircon maneuvers

                        Great again.
                        Where, how and at what angle he maneuvers. Ask the MiG-31 pilots where they were brought in at the slightest mistake in the course when intercepting the SR-71.
                        Take the NL-10, count the speed, the turning radius, display the degree-speed-linear value.
                      9. lucul
                        lucul 21 November 2021 18: 29
                        -1
                        Where, how and at what angle he maneuvers

                        These questions are for the MO - it claims to have solved all the issues with this.
                      10. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 21 November 2021 21: 26
                        +1
                        MO cannot operate across physical laws. Although the cosine can reach a value of five in wartime.
                      11. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 21: 44
                        +2
                        Quote: Serge-667
                        MO cannot operate across physical laws.

                        My considerations. If you have time.
                        Aircraft Carrier - Answers to Questions
                        http://samlib.ru/editors/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/avianosec-1985-86.shtml
                        Comments are most valuable.
                      12. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 21 November 2021 21: 49
                        +1
                        Kanesh is there. About Dudko, I must disappoint, I have already read)))) There, under the post I did not have time to answer. The entertainer is still. Especially about how RTMka is ready to inflict a nuclear missile strike at the enemy)))
                        valcat lj is it you?
                      13. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 23 November 2021 01: 48
                        0
                        Actually, I ate everything even with comments.
                        One question - from the picture:

                        What methods did you use to estimate the probability of hitting up to 50% or more anti-ship missiles from a salvo?
                      14. Product8
                        Product8 23 November 2021 07: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Serge-667
                        What methods did you use to estimate the probability of hitting up to 50% or more anti-ship missiles from a salvo?

                        The operations department received programs from the Pacific Fleet headquarters. This was done by Vova Nekrasov, a former submariner.
                        He had a separate room with protection, there was a computer. there was also a "Consul" type of printer at the time.
                        In the books, there are manes, entered and received.
                        Naturally, the probabilities were slightly downplayed. Since everything was very "pink" there. These calculations were "hammered" into documents and sent to the headquarters of the Pacific Fleet and the headquarters of the Far Eastern Military District (Ulan-Ude). I wrote, I'm curious ... Himself from the PLB department of the KVF.
                        During the exercises, they pulled out submarine operators, pilots, surface watermen, air defense personnel.
                        They had a hefty table in the opera house, a 3-by-3 meter map and a link. They drew, counted, led the situation. It was on the aircraft carrier that the senior was the 2nd Fl Pl counter.adm. Baltin. They reported to him, he made a decision to strike.
                        PLBshnikov have about the same table nearby. Only the map is closer to the coast of Kamchatka.
                        In the photo, the operational department of the headquarters of the KVF 1988
                      15. poquello
                        poquello 22 November 2021 17: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Product8
                        Great again.
                        Where, how and at what angle he maneuvers. Ask the MiG-31 pilots where they were brought in at the slightest mistake in the course when intercepting the SR-71.
                        Take the NL-10, count the speed, the turning radius, display the degree-speed-linear value.

                        How can the anti-missile system remove the engine altogether, since the speed is not important, let the boatswain and the crew throw it up according to the calculation? )))))))))))))))))))))))))))
                      16. poquello
                        poquello 22 November 2021 17: 35
                        0
                        Quote: lucul
                        And the speed of the AVMA movement, the target designation lag time, the calculation of the lead point ... what is this?

                        In order for an anti-missile to shoot down a target, it needs to have characteristics at least no worse than that of the target, and as a maximum - much more.
                        But there are no such missiles for NATO armament - see the possible speed of intercepted targets.)))

                        they (opponents) play football with the warrior, the Olympic goalkeeper reserve, when it is necessary to play to zero, they will be released
                      17. lucul
                        lucul 21 November 2021 18: 08
                        -4
                        Yes it is. In space, targets are knocked down kinetically.

                        This is if the target does not maneuver, but Zircon maneuvers)))
                        It provides passive location in all directions. With this system, the F-35 has already detected ballistic missile launches from a record distance of 1200 km.

                        This despite the fact that the radio horizon for the F-35 is 500 km? )))
                        ZgRLS in the same way detect the launches of ballistic missiles, almost from the start, so this function is not imba for the F-35)))
                      18. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 18: 22
                        +2
                        Quote: lucul
                        This is if the target does not maneuver, but Zircon maneuvers)))
                        calculate where it will carry when maneuvering at a speed of 2600, for example.

                        ZgRLS in the same way detect the launches of ballistic missiles, almost from the start, so this function is not imba for the F-35)))

                        Yes, but ZGRLS does not fly or swim.
                      19. lucul
                        lucul 21 November 2021 18: 25
                        -5
                        Yes, but ZGRLS does not fly or swim.

                        So compare the benefits when an F-1200 or ZgRLS detects a missile beyond 35 km)))
                    2. poquello
                      poquello 21 November 2021 12: 47
                      +2
                      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                      Zircon is no problem to knock down.

                      well then I have no questions)))))))))))
                    3. lucul
                      lucul 21 November 2021 17: 53
                      -2
                      Zircon is no problem to knock down.

                      To shoot down a Zircon - an interceptor rocket must have characteristics exceeding those of Zircon, otherwise the interception will not occur.
                      high heating temperature of the case and cannot actively maneuver

                      Where does the infa come from that Zircon cannot maneuver if the MO claims the opposite? )))
                      You are all so funny, in your denial, even the Americans have already admitted everything, and you deny everything)))
                      1. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 18: 34
                        0
                        Quote: lucul
                        Where does the infa come from that Zircon cannot maneuver if the MO claims the opposite? )))

                        MO claimed a lot of things.
                        I wrote a couple of years ago.
                        We have already discussed it.
                      2. lucul
                        lucul 21 November 2021 18: 36
                        -4
                        I wrote a couple of years ago.
                        We have already discussed it.

                        Another Crimean woman, daughter of an officer? )))
                      3. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 18: 38
                        0
                        Goodbye bunny.
                        I finished the conversation.
                      4. lucul
                        lucul 21 November 2021 18: 39
                        -6
                        Goodbye bunny.
                        I finished the conversation.

                        Pffff ....
                      5. Product8
                        Product8 21 November 2021 18: 41
                        +2
                        Quote: lucul
                        Pffff ....

                        I value my experience, knowledge and my personal time.
                        I don’t want to waste it on your stupidity.
                        I will not answer anymore)))
                      6. lucul
                        lucul 21 November 2021 18: 42
                        -4
                        I value my experience, knowledge and my personal time.
                        I don’t want to waste it on your stupidity.
                        I will not answer anymore)))

                        So the cavalry generals said, on the appearance of tanks in the troops)))
                      7. Vale2000
                        Vale2000 24 November 2021 00: 51
                        -1
                        Quote: Product8
                        I value my experience, knowledge and my personal time.
                        I don’t want to waste it on your stupidity.
                        I will not answer anymore)))

                        Never mind, this is a student writing.
                        They are now at a distance, so they are having fun.
                      8. Product8
                        Product8 24 November 2021 01: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Vale2000
                        Never mind, this is a student writing.
                        They are now at a distance, so they are having fun.

                        Well, you really ... the boy is interested in the army and the navy.
                        Maybe he will go to the LDNR, who knows)))
                    4. Boa kaa
                      Boa kaa 21 November 2021 22: 45
                      +2
                      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                      Zircon is no problem to knock down.

                      The doctor of military sciences k1r z. Sivkov, a different opinion, and based on calculations, and in various options for combat use. He thinks just like you: yes, you can shoot down, but! you need up to 30-50 missiles ... As they say, it is possible, but difficult.
                      high heating temperature of the case and cannot actively maneuver.

                      1. Heating from what? Air? at an altitude of 40-50 km ??? Well, well ... And what is the temperature "overboard" there? -- Could you tell? At an altitude of 10 km - minus 50-60 * C ... (If, of course, you flew on a B-777 or 767, well, at least to the Canary Islands. laughing Why Boeing or Airbus? Because we will have a lower echelon on local lines. Yeah))
                      2. Before entering an effective air defense zone, why maneuver? to burn more fuel or what? “Not at all necessary. But when the ARVM determines that the locating signal has switched to the frequencies of the firing stations, then it will be the same ... And then the jamming (active-aiming) and leading ones will begin ... But the 3M22 attacks from the "funnel", so even Egide you will have to calculate the shooting parameters very quickly. But at the peak, the speed is constantly changing due to acceleration - therefore / reset, reset, and again reset ... / until the GZKR sticks into the deck of the designated target ...
                      Here is a picture of the dynamics of air defense combat to repel an anti-ship missile salvo. Even if Onyx and Volcanoes had the NK group attack algorithm, then I believe that Zircon inherited all the best from its predecessors.
                      3. For greater persuasiveness, talk to the air defense specialists: how do they feel when the radar screen of the DVO is jammed with interference, the SDC mode is buggy, and the IR (OLS) displays a cloud of different caliber marks ... ...
                      So much for the "bit that kil" in kind! not in Raytheon's handouts.
                      AHA.
                      (Vasily Ivanovich, lying on the stove: - Amateurs have already killed them ... Instead of learning lessons at one time, they got drunk on vodka, and now they are trying to find out the "terrible military secret" from the Kibalchish boys who served in the navy, in the air defense, in Aviation and Strategic Missile Forces with VKO ... am )
                  3. lucul
                    lucul 21 November 2021 17: 49
                    -5
                    Tell me HOW are you going to break the AUG. At least with zircons, at least with caps, at least by local drainage of the water area.

                    Google about Peony-NKS. )))
                    One is ALREADY on alert.
                  4. Boa kaa
                    Boa kaa 21 November 2021 18: 17
                    +2
                    Quote: Serge-667
                    HOW are you going to break the AUG. At least with zircons, at least with caps, at least by local drainage of the water area.

                    I didn’t want to get in, because I’ve been coughing up everything a thousand times. But a colleague asked him to "correct", if that ... Therefore, I will insert my 5 kopecks.
                    1. Once the conversation has reached drowning aviks, then obviously "the case smells of kerosene", and without a vigorous mallet it will no longer be enough. And this technique was worked out in detail in the Union. And, as far as I remember, I didn't raise any questions. Without tactical nuclear weapons, I believe, and in modern conditions, it will be extremely difficult to solve the problem with AVU. We simply have nothing (carriers) to form a salvo of sufficient density for the anti-ship missiles to break through to the main target. I will not describe the technique with the use of SBP for known reasons.
                    2. You can break the AUG only by breaking through to the close guard using the SSGN of the last project (885M, for example). I don't see another one yet. (well, if not a blow from space). There is no need to drain the sea, but "it will probably have to be boiled. Otherwise, the aviation will bite to death."
                    And Zircon has carriers.
                    It's a fair question ... So far, it is only assumed and it seems like they were shooting from platforms, but they are not in service yet and how things will go further - only Neptune knows. But we are counting on the best.
                    IMHO.
                    1. Serge-667
                      Serge-667 21 November 2021 21: 46
                      +1
                      Since the conversation came to the point of drowning Aviks, then obviously "it smells like kerosene"

                      Quite rightly, colleague. But, the fact is that some uryazakidatel decided to do with unidentified weapons, assuring that a natural mineral can sink everything.
                      1. Boa kaa
                        Boa kaa 21 November 2021 23: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Serge-667
                        individual uryazakidatel decided to do with unidentified weapons, assuring that a natural mineral can sink everything.

                        Serge, hi
                        This is from the great mind of intellectuals who did not serve in the navy.
                        At the expense of the mineral. Of course he can fellow ... if it reaches belay ... will get wassat ... to the critical location of Avika / NK good and the BZO will work normally am .
                    2. poquello
                      poquello 22 November 2021 17: 54
                      0
                      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                      -And Zircon has carriers-.
                      It's a fair question ... So far, it is only assumed and it seems like they were shooting from platforms, but they are not in service yet and how things will go further - only Neptune knows. But we are counting on the best.
                      IMHO.

                      the question was asked in the context of their destruction, which turns into a normal naval battle, nevertheless, the firing was carried out from ships and submarines
              2. Product8
                Product8 21 November 2021 12: 05
                +5
                Quote: Serge-667
                I'd better throw off the cheat sheet for you.

                An ancient picture, it's just for understanding.
                I will reveal a terrible secret.
                For a dozen of my AMG overflights and, according to the analysis of dozens of more such overflights by aircraft 77 OPLAP and 317 OSAP, the texture never coincided with the schemes that reconnaissance generously supplied us with. management of the Pacific Fleet.
                They have a new construction every time, according to the task and the situation.
                1. Serge-667
                  Serge-667 21 November 2021 12: 22
                  +3
                  I absolutely agree.
                  But to understand the complexity of the issue completely)
                  There are even false constructions, on this diagram there are no, so, the general ancient picture.
              3. lucul
                lucul 21 November 2021 17: 43
                -5
                I'd better throw off the cheat sheet for you.

                You have a cheat sheet from the 80s, a lot has changed since then)))
                We remove the E-3A Sentry from the drawing at once, it must be covered with fighters, which have a range of 900 km.
                The E2-C Hokkai also needs to be covered with fighters, especially in the active search mode, when it glows on the radars like a Christmas tree, and it may well get our R-37 rocket another 300 km away. That is, in fact, Hokkai can safely fly away from an aircraft carrier by 500-600 km. As a result, the detection range of the AUG is about 900 km. Zircon has a 1000 km range.
                1. Serge-667
                  Serge-667 21 November 2021 22: 39
                  +2
                  As a result, the detection range for the AUG is about 900 km / Against the 1000 km range for Zircon.

                  Ie AUG in the 80s saw farther than now ??? The topic is closed))) I have no questions.
      2. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2021 11: 23
        +2
        Quote: Serge-667
        Correct me if I'm wrong.

        The destroyers and cruisers Navi are tasked with anti-aircraft defense, air defense and missile defense. Strike missions on the ground and ships just in aviation, which does not negate their leading role in anti-aircraft defense and anti-aircraft defense. In general, since the 30s of the 20th century, victory has been achieved due to air superiority, everything else is secondary. The ships in the AUG have the main task to protect the AV, its aircraft will do the rest.
        The ship has a limited ammunition and a long time of its replenishment, aviation does not have this drawback. The same tomahawk in terms of power is just FAB-500, so they are made universal (for land and ships) in Block 5. How much an aircraft can take Mk.83 / FAB-500 and their analogues do not need to be explained.
        1. Serge-667
          Serge-667 21 November 2021 11: 41
          +3
          Well, you have already combined two tasks into one. In practice, this does not happen. The start of air wing operation is preceded by the removal of the coastal and adjacent missile defense and air defense of the enemy from distances exceeding 1500 km to the lines of possible defeat of the AUG. This task, just, lies with the URO cruisers and other carriers of the KRBD, such as strategic aviation and nuclear submarines with KRR.

          Yes, and not a single AUG will be able to approach the distance of the use of aviation to the shores of the Russian Federation. In the Baltic, it is clear why, from the southern side, as it were, too, but from the North and the Far East, purely for "technical" reasons)

          The whole problem is that you can fight against the Russian Federation with AUGs only on the outskirts. It's just physically inconvenient.
          In general, I don’t understand all this excitement with aircraft carriers.
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2021 12: 06
            +3
            Understood. We are considering different theaters of military operations, I mean now actions against China in the APR, you are against Russia.

            Against us, AV is really anti-aircraft defense, air defense and missile defense, cover for ships and submarines, so that they are guaranteed to come within the distance of the first disarming strike. Naturally there will be SBCHs. And yes, the war is on the doorstep, AV simply does not come close purely from geography, and there is an abundance of ground airfields in possible theaters of operations. The problem is that we do not have the means for a war on these "approaches" and this is not a question of the RCC.

            In the APR, there will be other wars, they will be conventional weapons, something similar to battles in World War II, just the ranges will increase.
            1. Serge-667
              Serge-667 21 November 2021 12: 30
              +1
              The problem is that we do not have the means for a war on these "approaches" and this is not a question of the RCC.


              Here! HERE! +100500!
              Actually what I was trying to convey. I have difficulties with direct speech. I always start from afar)))
              1. OgnennyiKotik
                OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2021 12: 33
                0
                Quote: Serge-667
                Actually what I was trying to convey.

                To do this, you need to write a series of articles, not to describe in a couple of comments. And so I agree with most of what you have written. But for the Uryaskakuas, it is like holy water for demons.
          2. Product8
            Product8 21 November 2021 12: 21
            +1
            Quote: Serge-667
            Well, you have already combined two tasks into one. In practice, this does not happen.

            How does it not happen?
            For some reason, the name AUG stuck ... in all documents of the Navy there is an AMG-Aircraft Carrier Multipurpose Group.
            And the shock and air defense and anti-aircraft defense and anti-missile defense and EITI .... perform simultaneously, efforts acc. with a threat and a challenge.
            1. Serge-667
              Serge-667 21 November 2021 12: 48
              +1
              Here, yes. It is multipurpose. But, as it was said above, a complete set for a task, known in advance and calculated in a variety of options.
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 21 November 2021 19: 30
          0
          Quote: OgnennyiKotik
          The destroyers and cruisers Navi are tasked with anti-aircraft defense, air defense and missile defense. Strike missions on the ground and ships just in the aviation,

          Before you say anything, it would not hurt (for the sake of interest, at least) to look at the TYPICAL loading of media. I hope you are not going to shoot down the SVN with Axes and Harpoons?
          The Ticonderoga-class cruisers carry various types of missile weapons located in two universal vertical under-deck Mk-41 launchers with a total capacity of 122 cells.
          Typical loading - 24-26 KR "Tomahawk", 16 PLUR ASROC and 80 SAM "Standard-2". In addition, the ship has 16 Harpoon missiles in deck launchers.
          Therefore, they are called ROCKET CRUISERS ...
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2021 19: 46
            +2
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            24-26 KR "Tomahawk", 16 PLUR ASROC and 80 SAM "Standard-2"

            Well? For 1 KR and PLUR there are 2 missiles. After that, what is his main task as part of the AUG?
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 21 November 2021 22: 03
              0
              Quote: OgnennyiKotik
              After that, what is his main task?

              Damn, it's not destiny to google it yourself !?
              The main task of the missile cruisers is to provide combat support to large groupings of ships, including aircraft carrier formations. Destruction of enemy surface ships and coastal targets,
              and further on trifles: provision, support, assistance ...
      3. A009
        A009 21 November 2021 12: 59
        0
        Can you quote how it is written in the regulatory documents about aircraft carriers and their use in the US Navy?
        As far as I remember, it clearly says that it is the carrier groups that are the main striking force of the US Navy. Have you changed the regulations of the Americans? So tell them, otherwise they don't know. Or correct me with a link to the documents.
        1. Product8
          Product8 21 November 2021 13: 29
          0
          Quote: A009
          As far as I remember, it clearly says that it is the carrier groups that are the main striking force of the US Navy.

          Thank you, cheer up.)))
          it is the carrier groups that are the main striking force fleet USA
          I wrote about the AMG and its missions ... of the aircraft carrier group, not the fleet.
          Such blunders are often caught by staff officers who want to get to serve in the operational management of the fleet.
          They evaluate knowledge, logic, outlook and ability to think.
          1. A009
            A009 21 November 2021 13: 38
            -1
            1- what do you have to do with it and what did you write ??? I didn’t answer you and to this:
            "...
            Again, AUG changed its concept long ago. The aircraft carrier has long been no longer the main striking force ... "
            2- And since you put your nose where you did not ask. Bring a document (possibly in the original language) about AMG. Very curious.
            1. Product8
              Product8 21 November 2021 13: 51
              +1
              Quote: A009
              And since you put your nose where you didn't ask

              So I didn't ask for it. Why be rude?
              Then figure it out yourself without me.)))
            2. Serge-667
              Serge-667 21 November 2021 14: 49
              0
              As far as I remember, it clearly says that it is the carrier groups that are the main striking force of the US Navy.


              - the strike core of the US Rapid Reaction Force.

              Can you understand a little the difference between, directly, an aircraft carrier and an aircraft carrier strike group?
              Since the time of Tsar Pea, AUG (AMG, by the way, is indeed a more correct, but more abstract name) has approximately the same skeleton. Aircraft carrier - cruisers - destroyers - submarines and ships / support vessels.
              And there can be many variations in the construction of this operational unit.
              I said that the AIR CARRIER HIMSELF has not been in charge for a long time. Because the range of aviation has long been less than the range of missile capabilities of cruisers and destroyers.
              Accordingly, if during the Korean and Vietnamese wars, planes took off from an aircraft carrier and carried everything around, from air defense to armored vehicles and manpower, now this option of using an air wing is possible only if in Afghanistan or across Africa.
              And even then, not all. In the case of China, the Russian Federation or the same notorious Iran, this option will not work.
              By the way, ask how they brought democracy to Iraq, Lebanon and Yugoslavia. By no means clean sorties from an aircraft carrier.
              Actually, at the moment, the striking abilities of the AUG are redistributed between the composition of the compound.
        2. Product8
          Product8 21 November 2021 13: 46
          +1
          Quote: A009
          You can quote as it is written in the regulatory documents about aircraft carriers

          Rummaged ... here the aircraft carrier is designated as AVMA multipurpose nuclear aircraft carrier.
          Earlier, 50-60 years ago, there was a division into shock, anti-submarine, etc., with the growth of capabilities, it solves all problems at the same time.
          1. A009
            A009 21 November 2021 15: 43
            -1
            Speech (if you forgot to start a discussion) about an American aircraft carrier and whether 1 zircon is enough for it. This time.
            Second, it was said that the AUG is not the main striking force of the fleet. From Product8 quote: "... Again, AUG changed its concept long ago. The aircraft carrier has long been no longer the main striking force ..." to which I objected, quoted a quote that AUG is the main striking force of the fleet navy)
            Third, you parried (although I even discussed with you) that YOU didn’t say that. I don’t argue. I DIDN'T ANSWER you. If too harsh, I beg your pardon.
            4- I asked for a link (any document) about AMG- and that's right. This was not provided to me. Moreover Serge-667- confirms your words that AMG is correct. Well, I'll ask him to let him provide a link that AMG and not AUG. In this case, I'm really curious. I didn’t find one. And I will remind you again that the speech is still about American AUG. Not about the Russian aircraft carrier. Not about Russian standards. About American and about zircon. Not about the expeditionary force. About AUG as the main striking force of the fleet and about an aircraft carrier as the main weapon and the main target of zircon in AUG.
            1. Serge-667
              Serge-667 21 November 2021 16: 40
              0
              Second, it was said that the AUG is not the main striking force of the fleet

              See answer above. Not AUG, as a formation, but the aircraft carrier itself is no longer the main striking force in the formation. The aircraft carrier, apart from the air wing, does not have any strike capabilities. Also, it does not have means of protection against submarines, means of protection against aviation and, even more so, effective means of protection against anti-ship missiles. Sea Sparrow is a kind of protection in limited quantities.
              Thus, the main strike task, all other things being equal, lies on the warrant, and not on the aircraft carrier itself.
              1. Product8
                Product8 21 November 2021 17: 18
                +1
                Quote: Serge-667
                it has no means of protection against submarines, means of protection against aviation

                Why then were the Vikings removed from the AVM? Not needed?
                Protect from aviation and their own forces and the forces of the continental air defense.
                The answer is simple. Transfer of FOSS to a new format, much increased capabilities of submarines (Poseidon and UAVs), the inclusion of THREE multipurpose boats in support, the creation of security lines in the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet (submarines with VNEU), a change in the construction of the order.
                I have written so much on this topic, you will read the year))))
                The problem has been around since the early 80s.
                They even came up with completely fantastic ideas.
                The same K.A. Dudko.
                Collapse to Collapse ... Ashes to Ashes
                http://samlib.ru/editors/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/kraxandprax.shtml
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. swnvaleria
      swnvaleria 21 November 2021 08: 14
      -3
      let them try to approach from the north
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 21 November 2021 08: 31
        0
        From the north, it may work out ... you understand global warming on the nose ... Greta Thunberg will not let you lie ... maybe we will also see US aircraft carriers in the Yakut tundra.
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 21 November 2021 08: 15
    +1
    Somewhere I have already heard such a scenario ...
    A! Remembered! There was a man in an embroidered shirt, and so he, too, extolled rockets! He said, they say, now neither ships, nor aircraft, nor weapons are needed ...
    Men are no longer there. There are rockets. As well as the lag in ships, DA aviation and barrel artillery ... sad
    1. Murmur 55
      Murmur 55 21 November 2021 08: 29
      +3
      hi I'm certainly not an expert, but in my opinion he put the missiles above the cannon artillery and not above the ships and aircraft.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 21 November 2021 08: 36
        +8
        And I know this little man ... when he knocked the whole world with a shoe on the UN rostrum, he shuddered at his Kuzka mother.
        It was worse than rockets and cannon artillery.
        1. Dimy4
          Dimy4 21 November 2021 11: 46
          +2
          the whole world shuddered at his Kuzka mother.

          And this is more likely not his merit, but his predecessor. He created the authority of the state.
  5. askort154
    askort154 21 November 2021 08: 17
    -1
    Yes, it looks like aircraft carriers against Russia and China are weapons of the 20th century.
    In 21st it won't work anymore. Will remain only for intimidation and attacks from the rest of the world.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 21 November 2021 08: 27
      +1
      Well, you are now being stumbled by the Orthodox from the sect of aircraft carriers ... smile AUG are immortal and invulnerable to Russian missiles.
      1. askort154
        askort154 21 November 2021 12: 26
        +1
        Lech from Android. Well, you are now being stumbled by the orthodox from the sect of aircraft carriers ... AUG are immortal and invulnerable from Russian missiles.

        Belatedly returned to the site. And I see - you are right. And it didn't surprise me.
        This topic was raised a dozen times on VO. And what is striking is that "fans of AUG" do not give weighty arguments. They cannot even give an example of the "military merit" of the only one we have - "Kuzi".
        They have only the blind - la, la, la. And this is not very "convincing". Therefore, they do what they can - only "boo" with minuses. hi
    2. Eroma
      Eroma 21 November 2021 09: 59
      +8
      Yankees on aircraft carriers are testing UAV tankers, of course the air group will decrease because of them, but the range will increase.
      The author is disingenuous, he is terribly catching up, he just doesn't like F35 lol
      Yes, and they attack the coastal area after plowing the air defense of this very coast with the help of Tamogavks + help these air defense tomahawks to plow. And when there is no air defense, then aircraft are much better than missiles at solving problems of mixing the enemy with the ground.
      Each system solves its own problems, and their interaction increases the efficiency of the solution. So you don't have to worry about the fate of aircraft carriers hi
  6. Bez 310
    Bez 310 21 November 2021 08: 20
    +5
    Unfortunately, while these our "most terrible" missiles fly 450 km, work at targets with previously known coordinates, and the issue of detection and control center is not yet clear. But the Americans are already acting proactively - they intimidate and knock out money for new weapons that can withstand the "terrible" missiles.
    1. Murmur 55
      Murmur 55 21 November 2021 08: 33
      +7
      It turns out interestingly if something does not work out for the Americans, the Chinese, then comments like a matter of time are immediately followed, they are persistent, but it works in our direction (sorry for the clumsy presentation).
    2. konstantin68
      konstantin68 21 November 2021 08: 43
      +4
      Quote: Bez 310
      Unfortunately, while these our "most terrible" rockets fly 450 km,

      This is true! The missiles were made, they were dispersed to hypersound, but they were not taught to fly far. Oh, yes, we must also remember about target designation! Or decided not to be fired so obviously? laughing
    3. shinobi
      shinobi 21 November 2021 08: 44
      +4
      I explain on my fingers that there is no Zircon rocket in nature and never has been. And there is the Zircon program, within the framework of which a whole line of products are tested under one name with a different range of destruction (from 300 km to 1500 km) and various equipment for various carriers ...
      1. Serge-667
        Serge-667 21 November 2021 10: 06
        0
        Shhh! This is a military secret for the secret police. Here, in another topic, one ikzperd proved to me that Caliber is also a rocket.
        The people have no idea about such elementary concepts as "weapons complex"
    4. Serge-667
      Serge-667 21 November 2021 10: 03
      0
      Unfortunately, while these our "most terrible" rockets fly 450 km



      P-1000 Volcano.
    5. aslan balayev
      aslan balayev 21 November 2021 10: 14
      -2
      Quote: Bez 310
      Unfortunately, while these our "most terrible" missiles fly 450 km, work at targets with previously known coordinates, and the issue of detection and control center is not yet clear. But the Americans are already acting proactively - they intimidate and knock out money for new weapons that can withstand the "terrible" missiles.

      I remember that you once hinted that in the ocean you found a conditional enemy on your TR 16. And there was even a photo. What is the problem then? Long-range, high-altitude UAVs .....
      1. Product8
        Product8 21 November 2021 10: 46
        +3
        Quote: aslan balayev
        in the ocean they found a conditional enemy on their TU 16

        Sometimes they found, sometimes they didn't.
        All this in peacetime.
        As in the military ... only theory.
        The Americans are very resourceful and often prick up naval reconnaissance.
  7. Fungus
    Fungus 21 November 2021 08: 20
    -12
    Everything is correct. One Dagger or Zircon and no aircraft carrier.
    1. Bez 310
      Bez 310 21 November 2021 08: 28
      +1
      Quote: Fungus
      One Dagger or Zircon and no aircraft carrier.

      We also need a lot of hats.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 21 November 2021 08: 33
        -2
        That's right ... let's throw target designation in a moment. smile
      2. Bradley
        Bradley 21 November 2021 11: 45
        -1
        Why don't you write about the AUG conditional attack?
        Yes, Timokhin wrote, but it is more interesting to read different versions, especially since you were at the forefront, so to speak.
        It would be very interesting to read a person on this topic who, if something happened, would be on the cutting edge.
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 21 November 2021 13: 10
          0
          Quote: Bradley
          why don't you write about the conditional AUG attack?

          Nothing interesting, ordinary work that is unlikely to be of interest to non-specialists.
          1. Bradley
            Bradley 21 November 2021 13: 48
            -1
            Nothing interesting, ordinary work that is unlikely to be of interest to non-specialists.

            You can somehow simplify the presentation of information so that people who are far from the topic understand how difficult it is to go to the AUG, accompany it and strike.

            Your articles "About flight work", "How to become a ship commander" and "Combat path of a ship commander" are also for a narrow circle of people. Nevertheless, it is interesting.
            By the way, did you have a nickname "Breeze" before?
    2. Murmur 55
      Murmur 55 21 November 2021 08: 37
      +1
      The vulnerability of aircraft carriers is their airstrip, damaged it and it's all just a big small ship.
  8. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 21 November 2021 08: 24
    +2
    Even if an aircraft with a large radius appears, it still does not solve the problem of the AUG's vulnerability to hyper-missiles ... time ... time will become the determining factor in the confrontation between the two concepts of modern warfare.
  9. Wedmak
    Wedmak 21 November 2021 08: 44
    -1
    Aircraft carriers that performed well during the conflict in Iraq or Yugoslavia cannot approach the coast of China or Russia to provide work for their aviation, since one anti-ship missile can send a ship worth $ 13 billion to the bottom.

    Ay-ay-ay ... do not bomb now with impunity, do not show your striped flag over the horizon, do not bring democracy with urgent supplies to AUG.
    This ... carry it to you. And convert the aircraft carriers into hotels for the homeless, it will be more useful.
  10. shinobi
    shinobi 21 November 2021 08: 56
    0
    This Zircon was given to everyone. The usual anti-ship missile going below the radio horizon by 2 max is still a task to intercept. And, unlike us, the Yankes do not have systems capable of this. An aircraft carrier for disabling, not to be confused with sinking, one Onyx is enough for the command superstructure. The northern fox will reach the reactor and hello. The aircraft carrier will remain afloat, but as a combat unit it will be equal to zero. A radioactive floating iron island with a dead crew for a mountain of money. The future belongs to multipurpose nuclear submarines and rocket-gun platforms.
    1. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 21 November 2021 09: 16
      +5
      If you are not fighting against Russia or China, then aircraft carriers will still fight. There are enough weak countries in the world.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 21 November 2021 10: 09
      +4
      Quote: shinobi
      An ordinary anti-ship missile going below the radio horizon by 2 max to intercept is another task.

      I dare to suggest that creating such an anti-ship missile system with a sufficient range of destruction and going "below" the radio horizon at a speed of 2448 km / h is very problematic. In addition, there are air defense systems capable of destroying such low-flying targets in height from 0 m and above at a distance of at least 30 km.
    3. Product8
      Product8 21 November 2021 10: 55
      0
      Quote: shinobi
      An ordinary anti-ship missile going below the radio horizon by 2 max to intercept is another task.

      How much is it below pr? And what the rocket itself will see at this height. ? The lower and faster, the shorter the range. The standard is a "slide" if it is known for sure that this is an aircraft carrier and a rocket climb is required. Count the "slide" from what?
      Air defense AMG is echeloned. Very often, especially in the Northern Fleet, they use continental air defense for cover.
      At the Pacific Fleet along the Aleut with cover airfields.
      If they do not shoot down, they will damage, lead to a false target, hammer with interference.
      And most importantly, the "pre-plasma state" does not have a very good effect on communication and the operation of the guidance radar.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 21 November 2021 11: 27
        +3
        "And what the rocket itself will see at this altitude." ///
        ---
        Radar - nothing.
        An anti-ship missile flying low over the waves is launched approximately in the direction of the target in the mode of independent target search.
        She moves in zigzags and searches for enemy ships using a scanning IR video camera.
        Having detected a target, the missile switches to the target destruction mode. Or an approach at a minimum height, or a slide.
        1. Product8
          Product8 21 November 2021 11: 59
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          using a scanning IR video camera.

          Does an IR video camera have its own special radio horizon?
          EARTH ROUND for everyone, including the IR video camera.
          The irrigation system turns on on the aircraft carrier when there is a threat, and the video camera can be shoved ... in a purse.
          It was discussed ... for a long time.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 21 November 2021 12: 57
            +2
            I told how the anti-ship missile system works in autonomous mode without external target designation.
            If it is stealth and flies low, then it is difficult to detect it from a ship (it is easier from an airplane).
            But the anti-ship missile itself, as you rightly noted, sees nearby and can slip the ship.
            A turn by 180 and repeated search is provided. If he doesn’t find it, he will drown.
            The aircraft carrier and other ships have missile defense systems. And against low-flying ones - too.
            1. Product8
              Product8 21 November 2021 13: 22
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              how the anti-ship missile system works in stand-alone mode without external target designation.

              There are concepts of search performance, probability of detection, probability of successful targeting ... but it all comes down to target recognition.
              It can be calculated at an altitude of say 200 m.
              But all this is nonsense ... the value of the turning radius at a speed of 2M is interesting ... and where then this missile will take out. Well, the fuel, it is not infinite.

              Nobody will launch an expensive rocket "on the village to grandfather", they are already absent, and it is not known when they will do it.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 21 November 2021 13: 49
                +2
                I wrote about subsonic anti-ship missiles.
                Do not let supersonic ones over the crests of waves. They will drown.
                And at an altitude of 200 m + they can already be intercepted by Barak-8 missiles. Below - do not intercept
                1. Product8
                  Product8 21 November 2021 17: 26
                  0
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  I wrote about subsonic anti-ship missiles.

                  So you can see them. The US fighter pilot will also see them visually.
                  My photos from the shooting support. 2005 year


                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 21 November 2021 17: 49
                    0
                    Will see.
                    But for this it is necessary to constantly patrol and look out for the approaching anti-ship missiles.
                    And keeping aviation in the air all the time is very costly.
                    1. Product8
                      Product8 21 November 2021 18: 07
                      0
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      And keeping aviation in the air all the time is very costly.

                      Well, not all the time. They also monitor the situation.
                      This is what the air defense control is for. Distribution of efforts.
                      To us, as a rule, along the Aleut or south, along the Kuriles. There Chitose, Misawa, Iwakuni.
                      And with their refueling capabilities, in my opinion there are more than 400 tankers. Except for the F-18 with outboard tanks.
        2. ss-n-22
          ss-n-22 21 November 2021 16: 07
          0
          This is something radically new in cruise missile tactics. Can the missiles be fired without a pre-empted target location, in that direction, will they figure it out themselves?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 21 November 2021 16: 44
            +1
            AUG in a combat situation vigorously maneuvers at 30 knots.
            It is difficult to calculate the place ahead of time.
            The AWACS aircraft will not be allowed close.
            Either get closer and let the anti-ship missile system be sure, but with a big risk that they will be shot down / drowned earlier along with all the missiles, or shoot from afar, launch several missiles in the direction of the squadron in an autonomous search.
            This is how the LRASM, converted into the Tomahawk anti-ship missile, and the Norwegian missile purchased by the Americans work.
  11. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 21 November 2021 09: 05
    +2
    Aircraft carriers that performed well during the conflict in Iraq or Yugoslavia

    Still not to show! Taking into account the "all categories" of rivals. wassat
    1. KCA
      KCA 21 November 2021 10: 20
      0
      Well, they showed so-so, the main load lay on ground-based aircraft, aircraft carriers used it like this, shob bulo, from aircraft carriers in 1991 18 sorties were made to Iraq, from ground airfields over 117, bomb and missile load was not less than an order of magnitude, or even 98, more was reset
      1. Avior
        Avior 21 November 2021 10: 40
        +2
        Aircraft carriers provided the most important function - the operational reserve.
        You can bomb from afar, and react to a change in the situation or the need for an urgent response - from the aircraft carrier
        1. KCA
          KCA 21 November 2021 11: 36
          +1
          Promptly? And what can one or two AUGs in a war with a country a little more than the Baltic limitrophes? In the same 1991, a coalition of 44 !!! countries for more than 9 months preparing to punish Iraq, 44 countries and 9 months, that's the real power and efficiency of the AUG. Yes, AUG can cause some damage, but not, as it is fashionable nowadays to say - "to persuade to the world."
          1. Avior
            Avior 21 November 2021 12: 47
            -1
            The operational reserve is the ability to react quickly if the operational situation changes. Or, for example, to ensure constant patrolling for the same purpose, quickly delivering strikes against mobile targets.
            In 1991 we fought a big country with a huge army, if you don't know.
            And the overwhelming majority of these 44 countries took only a symbolic participation
    2. Product8
      Product8 21 November 2021 12: 25
      0
      Quote: Vasyan1971
      Still not to show! Taking into account the "all categories" of rivals.

      Sun Tzu ....
      Create superiority, reserve, deceive, pretend to be weak, etc.
      Who is the doctor to them that they started without taking into account the weight categories of the opponents?
      You have to be more modest .... did the fate of Hussein and Gaddafi teach you nothing?
  12. Roma 1977
    Roma 1977 21 November 2021 09: 14
    0
    It is not enough to have a long-range and high-speed missile. It is also desirable to have military bases with these missiles outside their mainland. For Russia - Kaliningrad, Crimea, Kuriles. And for China - Taiwan would be nice, and the same islands in the South China Sea, which China has already declared its own, but the public is still sluggishly objecting.
    1. KCA
      KCA 21 November 2021 10: 24
      +2
      China puts on the public and, in addition to the Spratly Islands, has been pouring artificial islands for bases and airfields for 7 years
    2. Eroma
      Eroma 21 November 2021 10: 30
      +1
      Yes, you are a straight Chinese provocateur! "Taiwan is an excellent defensive buffer for the PRC!" laughing Taiwan is not in a hurry in China of its own free will lol
      1. Roma 1977
        Roma 1977 21 November 2021 14: 57
        0
        Today he is not in a hurry of his own free will, tomorrow he is in a hurry for an evil one.
  13. for
    for 21 November 2021 09: 43
    +2
    American aircraft carriers no longer play a significant role in modern military conflictsas it was during the Cold War. And this is to blame for the emergence of new missiles in Russia and China, such as the hypersonic Zircon, capable of sending an entire "floating airfield" to the bottom.
    Well, the US (militarily) is not going to conflict with Russia and China, and in case of conflicts with other countries, I doubt that they will be drowned.
  14. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 21 November 2021 09: 48
    +2
    The emergence of new anti-ship missiles in Russia and China negates the advantages of the US Navy aircraft carriers

    What an "important" and, most importantly, unexpected discovery. Yes, with the appearance of hypersonic anti-ship missiles in Russia and China, their sufficient range and accuracy, not only aggressive campaigns of the AUG can initially be doomed to failure, but also various "show off" along the borders of the Anglo-Saxon pelvis of smaller displacement will be suppressed in the most radical way.
  15. Ros 56
    Ros 56 21 November 2021 09: 58
    0
    Striped ones fight great even with aliens, but ......... only in the movies.
    1. Product8
      Product8 21 November 2021 11: 03
      +1
      Quote: Ros 56
      Striped ones are great at war even with aliens.

      You would google about the Wagnerian attempt in the Deir ez-Zor area in February 2018. They have no losses. At all.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 21 November 2021 11: 07
        0
        With the same success, you can google about the beginning of the Second World War in 41, and then about May 45. Good luck.
        And change your nickname, otherwise I first read product 2, I hope you know what it is. wassat
        1. Product8
          Product8 21 November 2021 11: 15
          0
          Quote: Ros 56
          otherwise I first read product 2

          I know a lot, but you don't know anything about aviation. And the airplane was attached)))
          Sweet couple of aviation professionals.
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 21 November 2021 11: 53
            -2
            I understand, you are our great aviator, but what does it have to do with the topic.
            1. Product8
              Product8 21 November 2021 11: 56
              +1
              Quote: Ros 56
              just how it relates to the topic at hand.

              With the same success, you can google about the beginning of the Second World War in 41, and then about May 45. Good luck.
              Here I am about the same)))

              just what does this have to do with the topic at hand
          2. lucul
            lucul 21 November 2021 18: 56
            -6
            I know a lot

            As I understand it, we have before us a new "Klimov" only from aviation)))
            I reread his posts in this thread - not a single post For Russia, and all posts are against Russia.
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 21 November 2021 12: 54
        0
        Quote: Product8
        Would you google about the Wagnerian attempt in the Deir ez-Zor area in February 2018

        Listen, leave this topic. In our country, even in the first Chechen army, without any Americans, they were so set up that they were overwhelmed ... The Russian government today is changing the lives of real heroes for tomatoes, rest on the shores of the Sea of ​​Marmara and joint ventures for the production of pill # 8 (from covid).
        Or someone outside the walls of the Kremlin is valuable to the authorities? stop Values ​​are not kept in the crust.
  16. Avior
    Avior 21 November 2021 10: 37
    +2
    The author did not even hear about refueling in the air, it seems
  17. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 21 November 2021 10: 38
    +3
    Hendrix? The genie is ... very popular, but expensive! And I want to drink ... with grief! I tried to post a comment on the article about the S-550 ... and it turned out that comments on the article are prohibited! What is this "hack"? Banned for me or for everyone? Moreover, there are no explanations and warnings! Whose "amateur performance" is this? ...
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 November 2021 10: 56
      +2
      And the articles about the S-550 are already dumb! As they used to say: "No man, no business ...", so here too: "No article, no business!" ... request
  18. Maks1995
    Maks1995 21 November 2021 10: 55
    0
    All nonsense.

    Comparison:

    Nobody (according to the media), after the appearance of anti-airfield bombs and missiles, rushed to massively reduce airfields.
    The exception is Serdyukov. With his cunning GDP plan.

    so here. A floating mobile airfield warehouse is expensive, but necessary.
  19. gregor6549
    gregor6549 21 November 2021 13: 31
    +3
    Again another article on the topic "hypersound is our everything"
    It would be good to remember here that articles in American publications about the allegedly catastrophic lagging behind in this or that type of weaponry is the "lament of the American Yaroslavna" intended for the American audience and, above all, for those people who have very limited knowledge of the subject under discussion, but very unlimited opportunities for the allocation of funds for the creation of an "antidote" to the next Russian threat.
    What to do? The United States at one time gave birth to and raised a very voracious child called the military-industrial complex, and without the constant infusion of millions of Baksiks into this child, the child begins to wither and wither. And then magazines like the organ of American financiers mentioned in the article come to his aid, which form the reaction that the child needs both among congressmen and among American ordinary people.
    This is the first thing.
    Secondly, hypersonic weapons can be quite effective when stationary objects are its target. Moreover, for strikes even against such objects, it is desirable that the flight time of a hypersonic missile be less than the time of a possible reaction of air defense / missile defense systems to it. And to provide such time at distances of thousands of kilometers is not at all easy even at super duper hypersonic speed. Those interested can take a calculator and calculate. I have no such desire.
    That is, such missiles are much more effective to use against a target located at a relatively short distance from the launch point of these missiles, say, several hundred kilometers. At the same time, it becomes possible to track your missiles and correct, if necessary, their trajectories using modern land-based or sea-based radars
    Now about the danger of such missiles for the aircraft carriers of the adversary "sneaking up" to the borders of Russia or China at a deadly close distance for these aircraft carriers. The question immediately arises: why should those who command the AUGs take such a risk?
    To deliver strikes on land and in particular on the territory of Russia and China
    the United States has a host of other means at its disposal: from battle-tested "axes" to ballistic and cruise missiles of various types and basing with nuclear warheads. There will simply not be another US war with Russia and China. But for intercepting ballistic missiles of both Russia and China in the initial sections of the trajectory of these missiles, the AUGi may well be useful, and it is this opportunity that they have been practicing in their exercises in recent years. At the same time, they do not need to meddle close to the borders of their opponents.
    And the last thing. Getting a hypersonic missile into a modern moving aircraft carrier is a very difficult task. For this, target designation will not be enough. We also need constant and stable tracking of the coordinates of the hypersonic missile and the aircraft carrier and the issuance of these coordinates to the missile in real time. It is difficult to say how realistic this is at the discussed distances and speeds. Most likely not very realistic even with a solid constellation of reconnaissance satellites.
  20. Product8
    Product8 21 November 2021 22: 00
    +1
    Quote: Serge-667
    valcat lj is it you?

    Yes.
    Dudko, as a boat commander, was at his best.
    Resentment that the SCA was not given. Hence all his "You can't praise yourself ..."
    And I think he does not really delve into what is written for him.
    There is a preface in the book "Collapse ..." which is worth it.
    Masha Zakharova wrote such an impression.
    I knew his replacement on the K-492 boat, Oleg Lobanov.
    A very competent commander and an intelligent person.
    Or do they become foolish then when they become admirals? )))
  21. Product8
    Product8 21 November 2021 22: 39
    +1
    The point is, writes Hendrix, that the US Navy has removed from service the A-6 Intruder carrier-based attack aircraft, capable of operating at a distance of 1400 kilometers with a full bomb load, and has not received a new aircraft with similar performance. The F / A-18 Super Hornet is in service with a combat radius of no more than 900 km,
    Who is Hendrix? Doctors of military sciences, such as Sivkov, are carrying such a blizzard.
    Didn't Hendrix hear about unification? About the fact that having basic types such as the F-18, maintenance, unification of the range of weapons, repairs, and cheaper maintenance are much faster.
    How does the combat radius differ from the usual radius? )))
    And how many crews do the A-6 and F-18 have? What about fuel consumption? And the mass?
    What about the ratio of costs for the delivery of a ton of cargo over a distance?
    ABOUT A-6 ....Combat radius:
    with 1 × 944 kg nuclear bomb Mk43 and 4 × 1135 L PTB: 1432 km
    with 4670 kg of combat load and 2 × 1135 l PTB: 724 km
    It's strange how to compare the radius and range.
    Don't think that Americans are fools.
    Everything works for them, unlike .... let's not talk about sad things.
  22. Skipper
    Skipper 22 November 2021 18: 04
    0
    Quote: poquello
    Quote: Skipper
    It has long been accepted and combat duty on the MiG-31 is carried

    maybe daggers for a moment? zircon pencil case

    ah-ah-ah-ah-ah was mistaken - I thought about a dagger .. speech.
  23. Vale2000
    Vale2000 24 November 2021 08: 00
    -1
    If in the near future the Navy does not have a new aircraft with a long range
    Will appear. Go come up with a new engine.